← Frugal Friends Podcast
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- [00:00]
Jen
Hi friend.
- [00:02]
Jill
It's your inner child calling and they want churros.
- [00:10]
Jen
A new toy.
- [00:14]
Jill
And a new adventure. Or maybe five with the bestest besties on earth. Find your moment at Walt Disney World Resort.
- [00:30]
Michelle Grosser
Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report at Ameca Insurance.
- [01:01]
Amica Insurance
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- [01:34]
Jen
Could catch anything sitting in this doctor's waiting room. A kid just wiped his runny nose on my jacket and the guy next to me sitting in a pool of perspiration insists on sharing my armrest.
- [01:47]
Amica Insurance
Next time, make an appointment with an Amazon One medical provider. There's no waiting and no sweaty guy. Amazon won. Medical healthcare just got less painful.
- [01:59]
Jill
Episode 482 How Our Nervous System Impacts Our Spending Decisions with Michelle Grosser.
- [02:09]
Jen
Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity.
- [02:16]
Michelle Grosser
And live a richer life.
- [02:19]
Jen
Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.
- [02:26]
Jill
Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast. My name is Jen.
- [02:29]
Amazon One Medical
My name is Jill and today we.
- [02:31]
Jill
Are talking about the nervous system. So if you're a science geek or an anatomy and physiology geek, you're gonna love it. If you're not, you're still going to love it. I was very surprised by how I knew I was gonna love it. I was very surprised by how much it was going to impact me.
- [02:51]
Amazon One Medical
There were a where both of us were on the verge of tears, so you're gonna wanna stick around and a.
- [02:58]
Jill
Short moment where I've passed that verge.
- [03:01]
Amazon One Medical
Oh yeah, this is a good one. I don't you're about to listen to it so we don't need to like beef it up all that much. But just to say, I think even the way that Michelle talks and presents these concepts is in and of itself very calming and regulating. And then she's giving us A ton of tips on how to do this, the way that it can impact our spending. Well, and we're just thrilled to be here. But first, this episode is brought to you by Good kitchen tools. You know, the kind, they're not fancy, they're probably not even new. Just the stuff that gets the job done on a regular basis and doesn't quit. Like that trusted hand me down wooden spoon, the thrifted cast iron skillet, the unbreakable mixing bowls. We're recognizing the tried and true, not too flashy everyday resources. Kind of like the friend letter. It too is not too fancy. It's here on a regular basis. It doesn't quit. It's getting the job done with helpful money tips, ways to buy quality over quantity, and encouraging prompts. It goes out Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays. Every day of the week is a different theme, a different reason to keep coming back. So let us be a good kitchen tool for you. Frugalfriendspodcast.com to sign up for that friend letter. It's free. We're just here to help.
- [04:29]
Jill
Absolutely. So Michelle is a, she's a former attorney and she's a nervous system expert and she's the host of the Calm mom podcast, which so if you're a mom and you feel overwhelmed or stressed, like, definitely head over there and listen to her. Few of her episodes subscribe, but she uses somatic and neuroscience based modalities to coach women through discovering what's beneath their triggers and emotions so they can start their own healing journeys, find peace and be present in their lives. So this episode is not just for moms, but her podcast is great for that. And it was really this is going to be like all of our episodes with a lens of how it impacts our money, but truly it's going to impact you in a lot of different other places in your life. And so if you're tuning into this, you might have some, you know, some head things going on with you too. We get that, you know, we're here. We've already done episodes for a few of those things because we feel it so profoundly. So we've got episode 390 which is managing Money with ADHD or any neurodivergence, and episode 343, managing money with Anxiety. So if you search for those in your podcast player plus Frugal friends, you will find them. Or you can search on our website, frugalfriendspodcast.com, the episode number. So let's get into this. Talk about how this very tangible yet intangible thing, which is your nervous system, has a profound impact on how you make financial decisions and spend money.
- [06:20]
Amazon One Medical
Let's do it.
- [06:24]
Jill
Michelle. Welcome to Frugal Friends podcast. We're so excited to have you here and nerd out together. I'm very excited.
- [06:33]
Jen
Thanks so much for having me. It's gonna be great.
- [06:35]
Amazon One Medical
This is such a unique topic for us. Not that we don't talk about all things about our personhood and the way that that touches money, but this is certainly a topic we've not covered yet. And so when that happens, we love to bring experts on, like yourself. So this is just exciting for us too.
- [06:55]
Jill
Yeah. So let's just start off with a baseline. Talk to us about our nervous system. How does it impact how we spend money?
- [07:07]
Jen
Okay. So our nervous system is like our body's command center, Right? It's just, like, constantly running under the surface, gathering information everywhere we go, everything we do. And it has one job, and its primary focus function always is our safety. So it's always out there, like, grabbing information, storing it away in our body and to ensure that we're safe. And we know from the neuroscience that our nervous system is actually making decisions about, you know, the things that we think, the risks we're willing to take, the things that we say, our behaviors, more than 95% of those being unconscious. Right. We're not even aware that our nervous system is running the show when we're doing these things. And obviously, that impacts our spending decisions and how we think about finances and our patterns when it comes to finances and things that we probably picked up when we were really young. Right. How our parents talked about money or spent money or just how that felt kind of in our home and our associations with what it means to have wealth or not have wealth or all of these different things. Our nervous system is ultimately running the show. So when we can really start to identify, man, what are some patterns that are kind of hardwired into me when it comes to spending money? How does that relate ultimately to probably fears, Right. And then safety, which is our nervous system's job. And then how can I actually bring my nervous system to a place that it's not stuck in this kind of stress response, which often shows up, I think, with money in a scarcity mindset, we talk about that a lot and hear that, but that's rooted in our nervous system. So we can be in a place where we can access the parts of our brain that allow us to make our best decisions and act right from, like, a logical, analytical place. Instead of impulse or just, like, running these old patterns that are like, man, why do I keep doing that? So when I think, one, we can grow the awareness of how our nervous system impacts our spending, and then, two, actually have tools to, like, bring ourselves to a place of what we would call regulation in our nervous system, when we're operating fully conscious of what's going on, then we can make really good choices with our finances and, frankly, with a lot of other things in our life, too.
- [09:33]
Amazon One Medical
Hmm.
- [09:33]
Jill
Can. Can you give an example of a spending decision that. That would be a result of a dysregulated nervous system, whether short term or long term?
- [09:43]
Jen
Yeah. So I am. Right now, the. The business that I have, right, is I'm a nervous system and somatics coach, and there are so many clients that will come to me and they're like, yeah, but I've bought, like, 14 other courses before, right. And I never sit down and, like, actually do them and listen to them and carry them out into completion and do the actions that tell me to do in those programs. Those are spending decisions based on a dysregulated nervous system. So at that point of purchase, there was something going on for them that was probably the scarcity mindset of, like, someone else has the solution that I don't have. I'm going to go out, I'm going to spend my money on this. This is going to solve my problems. And then you end up with all of these programs or whatever it is, right? All these planners, all these books, all these whatever stuff we spend our money on that we think is going to solve it. But really under the. Under the surface, right. There's something going on there that's not allowing us to make decisions rationally and logically.
- [10:47]
Amazon One Medical
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. It's interesting to me. I think there's a lot of ways that we hear people come at and explain some of these different spending decisions, from impulsive speed spending to behavioral economics to cognitive biases, to mindset shifts, to now dysregulated nervous systems, and maybe it's a whole combination. But from your perspective, how might somebody distinguish between, okay, I might be operating out of dysregulation versus I need a mindset shift or I need to look at my habits, or I need to understand cognitive biases. Like, how would you filter through these different things?
- [11:29]
Jill
Yeah. Especially because you just already mentioned scarcity mindset. And I think, like, so many people in our community struggle with that, including us. Like, and we're just told, oh, you need A different mindset. You just need to work on your mindset.
- [11:43]
Jen
Yeah, so I think that that's such a good question. Here's what I think. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think that it's actually our nervous system that's positioning us for each of those different things. So if it is a mindset issue, for example, there's a reason why we've been operating with that mindset, right? There's something in body that has felt unsafe, that's caused us to enter what we call a stress response. Fight, flight, freeze or fawn. Those can probably show up in different spending habits and how we manage our money. And those can result in a mindset that doesn't serve us very well. So with the work that I do, a lot of it is in the body because what we know about the nervous system is actually like when you focus just on mindset stuff. So whether it's like scarcity, mindset or any other mindsets that we have around money, only 20% of the nerves in our body actually run from our brain down to our body. So top down, what that means is that the other 80% of the messaging going on in our body, the large majority of it is from our body up to our brain. So we can like know like how many of you guys have had a budget. Like we know the things that we should be doing, right? The actions we should be taking. But it's so flipping frustrating because like we still don't do the things that we know we're supposed to do. That's because it's like a four to one tug of war. Our brain, our mindset can understand these things. If our body's not on board, good luck. So we have to regulate our body through somatic practices. And that's what I teach. And then when we get like the mindset and the body sending the same messages, that's when we can really see, you know, the growth that we want to see or the actions following through on the actions that we want to take.
- [13:33]
Jill
Yeah, that's so interesting because we talk about that aspect of budgeting all the time, right? Like a budget is a great plan for your money, but if you don't have the skills to follow through with it, then it's just going to be this beautiful plan that never gets accomplished. And so, so much of that is, is action. Right? But we think a lot about how do we train our minds to choose these actions. But we don't talk a lot about how do we train our bodies to carry out these mind actions.
- [14:03]
Jen
Yeah.
- [14:03]
Amazon One Medical
And I'm sure that we'll get there. But before we do, I am curious what you would say are some of the indicators that there is dysregulation happening? Because you also kind of mentioned there's some subconscious things going on. We may not even be aware of it. So what would be some of the signals to know this is probably what's happening for me?
- [14:23]
Jen
Yeah. Okay. So when we are in a stress response, which means our nervous system is feeling dysregulated, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, typically that's what we hear of as the stress responses that can show up somatically in our body and in our actions and our words and our thoughts in different ways. So I usually like to think about it in, like, mental, emotional, and then physical symptoms. So some of the mental and emotional symptoms that your nervous system is dysregulated. And a lot of these. It's so interesting we've thought of these as, like, our personality. Like, oh, that's just how I am, right? I'm just like, super type A, or I'm just like, busy all the time, or I just worry all the time, or I just have a really hard time slowing down, or I'm just a spender or whatever it is. Those would all be symptoms that your nervous system is dysregulated. Maybe it's anxiety, maybe it's edginess or irritability. Those are. Those are all, like, mental and emotional symptoms. And then on the physical side, when we are experiencing stress and our body sends us into one of those responses, there's. It's not just like a mind thing, right? There's like a physiological response in our body. So if we see a bill come through that we weren't expecting, or that bank account drops below a certain number or something, there's something that actually happens in our body when we perceive that, right. Our body releases these stress hormones like cortisol and adrenaline. And that does things like it can speed up our heart rate, or it can change even, like, our digestion or immune system over time if we don't deal with it. And then if it's chronic, that kind of stress is chronic. There's physical symptoms. So maybe it's insomnia. Maybe you've dealt with gut issues that no one can really explain. Maybe you've had chronic muscle tension, right? That pain in your neck or your shoulders that just, like, doesn't go away. Aching joints, even, like, autoimmune conditions. So often those are rooted in chronic stress. Chronically dysregulated nervous system. And then those kind of symptoms that come from the inflammation of being in that heightened response. So a lot of different things.
- [16:29]
Jill
This is a little close to home for me. We're like, we are sitting here and we're, we haven't, we haven't talked about it on the podcast, but my body reacts very, very poorly. Distressed. And like two weeks ago, we're recording this in December, but two weeks ago I had a seizure, which is not my first seizure from. There is no physiological reason except for stress is what has caused them. And internally in my head, I don't think I'm stressed. I think I'm fine. I'm managing everything very well. And then people will tell me back to me, like, what's happening in my life for the past couple months. And it is, it is just this whole. It is this wild disconnect between what I think is happening and what my body is processing is happening. It's wild what we don't connect.
- [17:36]
Jen
Yeah.
- [17:37]
Jill
And like, so easy. And that is a major, like, extreme case. So, like having, like, spending money on things we don't intend to or we don't want to, that's a small scale thing that everybody is doing on a daily basis. So now that we've, now that we've gotten into that. Now.
- [18:01]
Amazon One Medical
Now that you disclosed very vulnerable information.
- [18:04]
Jill
Yeah.
- [18:05]
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- [18:54]
Jill
Right now.
- [18:55]
Jen
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Jill
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- [21:09]
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- [22:17]
Jill
What do you think contributes to our anxieties about money? Like when we're speaking specifically about dysregulation, anxiety money. Like what can we do when our finances are stressing us out? Like if it was money stressing me out hypothetically that brought me to health crisis. What hypothetically asking for a friend, what would you say?
- [22:50]
Jen
Okay, so this is so good because I don't think it really matters so much the cause of your stress. So I can give you stuff around finances, but this will work for you too, because here's the thing. Our body doesn't understand a verbal language. So you cannot just tell your body that it's safe. You cannot just tell your body that it's going to be okay. You can't just tell yourself to chill out and calm down. Like we've all tried that. It's not particularly effective because our body doesn't speak in that way. It doesn't communicate in that way. How does our body communicate? What's the language of our body? Breath, movement, sound, touch, temperature changes. Those are all the ways that our body communicates and understands safety. So if we're having some of these dysregulated symptoms, whether it's because of our finances or something else that's been stressful in our life, maybe it's a health condition. Maybe it's a cross country move. Maybe it's some something with our kids going on. Maybe it's the launch of a book or some big project or schedule. These are all things that are really stressful and they can be good things too. Our body doesn't really know the difference. It just sees stress, right? It doesn't really perceive good stress or bad stress or healthy stress or whatever, but it's released in the same way and we regulate in the same way. So we can talk about some different ways that we can show our body. Hey, chill out. It's okay. We're not going to die, right? This is like just our just numbers in our bank account. Let's get ourselves to a regulated place so we can make good decisions about this. Because no good decisions are made when we're just frantic. Right. And in fight or flight or whatever it is that's going on. When you learn how to use these body based tools to show your body instead of tell your body, hey, we're good, we can come out of a stress response. That's really where you start to see and notice a shift regardless of what's causing the stress. Does that make sense?
- [24:47]
Amazon One Medical
Yes, very much so. And we're just laughing so much over here because, oh, this is what we needed. Okay, so let's then talk about that because I think it is helpful for us to kind of then be able to know. And when I think about what you're describing here, it makes a lot of sense. But I also know that when I come into these stressful experiences and I do kind of know what that feels like in my body, it will then send my mind on a tailspin. And then you're right. Then there's reactions and behaviors that happen from that. So maybe talk us through certainly what we can do. But yeah, how do we pull ourselves back from our mind going and beginning to make those behaviors like what do we do before for that to kind of regulate ourselves in those situations.
- [25:40]
Jen
Okay, so good. All right. So two things that I'll just kind of like offer as reminders and then we can kind of jump into it. So the first one is that our body will always lead and our mind will follow. It's not the other way around. So we actually have to regulate our body. And then you'll notice that your mindset will shift. Just even the way that our brain is structured, the part of our brain that sends that alarm system when we're feeling unsafe or whatever, stressed, whatever's going on, that part of our brain actually bypasses language and rational thought and all of these things. That's why we need to actually bring safety through movement or breath or sound or touch or those types of things. So what does that mean? That means that what's going on in our body can have a huge impact on our mindset. But what's going in what's going on with our mindset can only have a pretty small impact on what's going on in our body. Right. They're not like these equal impacts to each other. The second thing is that when you notice that that mindset is just kind of spiraling, right? You start ruminating. Worst case scenario, you know, your brain starts going to all of these crazy Things that probably won't ever happen, but you feel yourself kind of getting amped up. That is a really great kind of red flag waving reminder to get out of your head and into your body. And that's what I coach my clients. Like, okay, we're going down that path. Get out of your head and into your body. That's what I tell myself when I start doing it. Okay, Michelle, like you're starting to worry about stuff. Get out of your head and into your body. And that's when we can start to use a lot of the body based somatic practices and tools that I teach. Bring safety to your body and your mind will follow.
- [27:27]
Amazon One Medical
Beautiful. Can you share what some of those practices.
- [27:30]
Jill
Yeah, if I had maybe like after I evacuated a hurricane, like a flooded property in a small boat, in a monster truck, like, what should I have started after that to avoid having a seizure several weeks later?
- [27:48]
Amazon One Medical
Asking for a friend. Yeah.
- [27:52]
Jen
Wow. I. Okay, so a little bit of backstory. But when I was in Miami for 15 years, I had, I did property damage litigation. So all I was doing all day long was helping hurricane victims. And little did I know, I'm like, well, the law side of that with property damage ties so much into, like, it's trauma, it's. Those are traumatic events and the impact on our body and then teaching people what to do with that. So let's, let's talk about it. Okay. So a lot of things. One, one of the, the most common reasons that I see that we become, especially women dysregulated is because we are not taught or we don't know what to do with our really big emotions, so we repress and suppress them. That causes dysregulation in our nervous system. So stuff like what you survived with a hurricane, first of all, it's terrifying. Second of all, there's probably a lot of like anger and, and maybe like rage tied to that. Like, it's just so unfair. So many things lost, what your family had to go through. Like, I don't, I don't even know, but there's just a lot of emotion that can come with that. A lot of sadness that can come with that frustration. And then we don't. We just like, make sure everyone else is okay around us and we don't express or feel or release any of that. And that's like holding the super inflated beach ball underwater. It's really hard and it's really exhausting and it takes up a lot of space. And before we know it, it kind of pops up and it Splashes all over everyone. And then we're like, man, what do I do with all of this? So that causes our system to be in this, this chronic state of stress and we don't know how to release that. So I think first is like just that reminder that we have to have tools to handle our normal, expected, predictable emotions depending on what's going on in our life, right. And then to get out of our head and into our body. What does that look like? Something like that. You, I would imagine that you probably have a lot of active energy going on in your body based on an experience like that and whatever kind of stress, right. A lot of us that tend to be higher on that activity level, if our stress shows up as like anxiety or it's just this like frenetic energy or we feel like we have to stay busy all the time and we can't slow down, that needs to be released. So some somatic ways to do that are. One my favorite is shaking. So it's literally just like we see it with our pets, right? Like if our dog, my dog sees a squirrel in the backyard and he likes like, bam, out the door, he's out chasing that squirrel. He was thrown into this stress response. But what does he do after that to like regulate his nervous system? He shakes. He like shakes it off. We've all seen animals do that in the wild. We're wired the same exact way. So it's literally what it sounds like in like 60 to 90 seconds of just standing up and like shaking out your body, shake out your arms, shake out your legs. Like if you want to put on one of your favorite like dance songs and just kind of wiggle and shake and move 60 to 90 seconds, you will notice a marked shift in the state of your nervous system as it releases a lot of pent up energy. And then you can introduce a practice that feels really soothing and regulated. Regulating for your nervous system. So maybe it's like a five minute breathwork meditation or maybe it's just havening, right? And putting your hands, crossing your hands in front of your chest on your shoulders and kind of gently squeezing down to your elbows across your forearms in a way that feels really soothing. Maybe it is just practices of like orienting yourself. Sometimes when we go through things that feel really stressful, the way that our nervous system responds is kind of to detach, right? This is way too much. I'm just going to kind of like shut down and space out and I'm going to find myself right. Scrolling a lot. Or on Netflix or just zoning out. My kids are like, mom, Mom. I'm like, what? Like, just not, not present. Right. That's a very normal response to a lot of stress for our system. So bringing yourself back to the present, right? Orienting yourself, grounding yourself, going through your five senses. What are five things I see? What are four things that I hear or three things I can touch? Just really simple practices to get out of your head into your body. Those bring safety, those bring regulation to your, to your system. And then your mind will follow.
- [32:32]
Jill
Okay, this is kind of mind. Mind blowing. What is the difference between this stuff and something like exercise? Because I'm an active person runner, I lift weights, and that is what I was using to kind of regulate the card, the cortisol in my body to avoid this. And I'm like, kind of beating myself up because it didn't, it didn't work. But now you're talking about, like, completely different stuff.
- [33:02]
Jen
Yeah.
- [33:03]
Jill
What's the difference?
- [33:04]
Jen
Okay, this is, this is so good too. Nothing heals by pushing harder. So movement is so important to a regulated nervous system. But when we push ourselves in our exercise routine, if we're already at the edge of the capacity of our nervous system, exercise ultimately is a stress on our body, right? Living, lifting really heavy weights, hiit workouts. Right. Exerting ourselves, that can be enough if we're already at the edge to send our body over its limit into one of these stress responses. So if you're in a place or season of life where you're not experiencing a lot of stress, those types of exercises can be really good. If you're. And I'll speak for myself on the same way. Like, I have to check in in the morning. There are mornings where I can have a cup of coffee and do a hiit workout and I'm fine. There are mornings where I know I'm already at the edge of the limit of my nervous system and I skip the coffee and I just sit on the ground and stretch and go for a walk around the block because I know that I don't have the bandwidth to handle more stress on my system in that moment. And it kind of goes back to when I was talking about our nervous system isn't good at distinguishing different types of stress. Stress is stress. So, yes, kudos to you and wanting to move your body to help deal with the stress. I think. I don't think that's anything to beat yourself up over. I think that's actually a really intuitive response and pretty wise. It's just that when we're already experiencing a ton of stress. Otherwise, we have to be careful because movement, really intense movement like that can be enough to send us over our limit, what our body can handle.
- [34:54]
Amazon One Medical
I really appreciate the way that you're connecting the dots here for us. I think there's a lot of familiar things here, and then there's a lot of pieces that make sense, but maybe we haven't totally put into the puzzle yet. And so I just appreciate the way that you're describing this and what I'm also hearing from you. And, you know, even my own understanding of our nervous system is that it is there to protect us. And there are situations where we need that survival instinct of fight, flight, freeze, fawn. Like Jen, you needed to get out of a flooding house, and what your body did to do that was necessary. But then we don't often think about, okay, that was a huge experience. My body was flooded with all sorts of things. And now there are actions that need to be taken to regulate once I have found safety here. And similarly with financial things, there are times where it makes sense that this is scary. We receive a large, unexpected bill, and we know we don't have the money to cover it. Yeah, that disrupts safety and stability. So it's not necessarily about pushing back against what's happening and what our body is trying to tell us and alert us to, but the ways that we can care for ourselves in the midst of that and then following that. And so with that, as we kind of, like, wrap up this very lovely conversation, I'm curious if you could say, like, speak to that piece of what we might be able to see on the other side then, related to spending decisions. Like, we've kind of come to this understanding. We're starting to implement a few of these somatic body movements. What could we expect to see then in re entering the thing that maybe caused that anxiety? How we might expect to make better decisions there.
- [36:51]
Jen
Okay, first of all, that was a beautiful summary of, like, bringing it all together. So. Yes. And then what happens when we're regulated? Okay, so when we are regulated and we have that safety in our nervous system, we have access to our prefrontal cortex, which is the part of our brain that makes good decisions. It's the part of our brain that can see things from different perspectives. It's the part of our brain that has access to higher language. It's the part of our brain that can analyze things. So, you know, it doesn't take a lot to understand why that would be really important in our Spending habits and how we make money. So I think it would be an awesome practice. Like if you have, you know, family budget meetings, or if you sit down regularly and take a look at your finances or even just like opening your mail or opening your inbox. Like, before you do that, wherever your bills come in, can you do like 10 jumping jacks, shake your whole body out for 10 seconds, take a deep breath, and then go into that practice or that conversation or what have you, because it'll have a big impact. And then what happens? Well, then you're not operating out of fear, right? It's like you take the fear glasses off and that lens is removed. And instead of seeing things with all of your filters and all of your biases and all of your past and your patterns, you have more capability to see things as they actually are, Right? You feel more empowered as you go into it. Instead of the worst case scenario, you're more in a place where you can come up with a plan or make a call or whatever it is that you need to do instead of being frozen in fear, feeling really angry, or being so anxious that you're avoiding what needs to be done. So ultimately, with a regulated nervous system, you can show up and put into practice all of the tools that you have, right? All of the things that you learn on a show like this that you know, but are really hard to carry out when you're stuck in fight or flight or freeze or fall. Yes.
- [38:59]
Jill
I mean, that's just we. We love the prefrontal cortex, and we love. We love good decision making and helping our brains make good decisions. And this is just one more, like, big way to help our brains do that. And I'm just. I've loved this conversation.
- [39:18]
Amazon One Medical
Do you know what else we love and feels regulating?
- [39:22]
Jill
To us, it's definitely not a fight or a flight or a freeze or a font.
- [39:27]
Amazon One Medical
It's the bill of the week.
- [39:40]
Jen
That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton.
- [39:57]
Jill
This is the bill of the week, Michelle. Every week we yell at our guests. Guests and our listeners.
- [40:05]
Amazon One Medical
Now I'm realizing that might not be the best approach.
- [40:07]
Jill
Yikes. I do that so many times every week, Michelle. This is my life. I'm yelling at people and asking them to share their bill of the week. I would love to hear yours.
- [40:23]
Jen
So good. Yeah, this Came through, like, by, like in preparation. In preparing for this conversation. I'm like, this is brilliant and one of my favorite things that I've ever seen. Okay, here's my bill of the week. Before I started doing this work, right, I had a law firm and I spent 15 years looking at and reading and preparing bills of sale. So I'm bringing you guys a bill of sale and I am selling all of the stuff that we don't need anymore, right? I'm selling like hostel culture. I'm selling all of these stress responses. I'm selling like jumping out of bed and being busy first thing in the morning. I'm selling frivolous spending around the holidays or this use of spending and commercializing everything in order to feel connected to the people we love. Like, I'm just, I'm bringing a whole big bill of sale that you guys can take and sell all this stuff to.
- [41:23]
Jill
Oh, I don't know who we're selling because everybody listening is on the same path.
- [41:28]
Amazon One Medical
Yeah, that's gonna be a bill we don't pay unless. Unless the trash company will come and pick it up for us. Then I'll pay the trash company for that.
- [41:38]
Jill
They're still hauling junk away in Pinellas county. So everywhere still, all over the rows are these big double dump like trucks.
- [41:47]
Amazon One Medical
Back it up. I love that.
- [41:49]
Jen
So creative.
- [41:51]
Amazon One Medical
Michelle.
- [41:52]
Jen
Wow.
- [41:52]
Amazon One Medical
If you all listening, have a bill that you want to submit if it's creative, if it's a bill that you don't need anymore, a bill, you don't mind paying a bill for the trash that you're throwing out, whatever it is your name is. Bill frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill we can't wait to hear it.
- [42:11]
Jill
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- [42:30]
Amazon One Medical
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- [42:43]
Jill
Plus all plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans@mintmobile.com frugal that's mintmobile.com frugal upfront.
- [42:56]
Amazon One Medical
Payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.
- [43:11]
Lifelock
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- [44:08]
Michelle Grosser
Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report at Ameca Insurance.
- [44:40]
Amica Insurance
We know it's more than just a house. It's your home. The place that's filled with memories. The early days of figuring it out to the later years of still figuring.
- [44:55]
Jen
It out.
- [44:59]
Amica Insurance
For the place you've put down roots. Trust Amica Home Insurance. Amica empathy is our best policy.
- [45:08]
Amazon One Medical
And now it's time for lightning round. I'm gonna go quiet today.
- [45:13]
Jill
Yeah, usually her lightning rounds are very aggressive and we actually got. We got a review. Thankfully it was five stars. But they did comment the first time they heard the lightning round.
- [45:24]
Amazon One Medical
It was alarming.
- [45:25]
Jill
Quite alarming.
- [45:26]
Jen
Yeah.
- [45:26]
Amazon One Medical
And not today.
- [45:28]
Jill
We're gonna do that today.
- [45:29]
Amazon One Medical
We're gonna regulate you today because Michelle's here.
- [45:34]
Jill
What is a recent money situation that felt overwhelming to you and how did you handle it?
- [45:41]
Jen
Oh my gosh. Okay, so like two months ago now, I guess my family just moved from Miami to Houston. I had, I've moved cross country. Never with kids and owning a house. And there were just so many money decisions there. Even the cost of moving. Like the guy that came to our house and walked around for six minutes with a clipboard telling us what it was going to cost to move our stuff. Like, like, I could not believe it. So that was really alarming and felt very dysregulating to my nervous system. But how did I handle it? I, I, this is actually what I did. I jumped in my swimming pool and I just started doing laps. And then once I could think straight, I sat down with my husband and we came up with a plan, and we actually decided not to use a moving company. And we put. We had a huge garage sale, sold a bunch of stuff, rented a small pod, and moved it cross country.
- [46:33]
Jill
Whoa. So good.
- [46:36]
Amazon One Medical
That's the benefit of living in Miami at the time. Or wait, was your, was the pool in Miami or Houston?
- [46:42]
Jen
In Miami. Yeah.
- [46:43]
Amazon One Medical
Okay. Yeah, yeah. So you left it behind, but it did benefit you for a time.
- [46:48]
Jen
That's right.
- [46:49]
Jill
Is that why people get cold plunges? Is that a nervous system thing?
- [46:53]
Jen
Yeah.
- [46:55]
Jill
Okay.
- [46:56]
Amazon One Medical
I mean, who knows if they know? Yeah, I don't know if they're doing it.
- [47:01]
Jill
You know what? I don't know if they do. This is so true. But it makes more sense.
- [47:08]
Amazon One Medical
It looks like I'm being gritty.
- [47:10]
Jill
Right. I've never done it, but okay. I think it makes more sense to me. I don't know if I will do it now still.
- [47:17]
Amazon One Medical
I have done it and I do like it. Like, I don't love it while it's happening necessarily, but it is, it is calming.
- [47:26]
Jill
I'm skeptical. I'm, I'm skeptical.
- [47:29]
Amazon One Medical
We can't find cold water here in Florida. So it's just.
- [47:34]
Jill
No, it just makes it more shocking to get out of the cold plunge because it's so hot out on the outside. Yeah. It just feels like it would be more shocking. Okay. Anyways, back on topic. Recent money situation that felt overwhelming to me. So we just got approved for the My Safe Florida Home grant. That gets us $10,000 for either something hurricane safe. And we have chosen windows. And in order to spend that 10,000 to get the max of that $10,000, we have to spend at least 5,000, which in order to get an even amount of Windows, means spending 9,000, which means putting 11,000 down for it because that's the cost of the windows. So I'll get money back, but, like, I still have to put $11,000 down for windows. I don't want and will not increase the value of this house that I plan to sell in several years and will not benefit from because they are on the second story of the back of the house that we use as a rental. And so. So what did you do that is over. So what did I do?
- [48:50]
Amazon One Medical
You haven't done anything yet, right? We're in the middle of it.
- [48:54]
Jill
Wow.
- [48:55]
Amazon One Medical
So now you know to shake.
- [48:56]
Jill
So now I'm definitely going to be shaking. Now I know what to do. I'm going to be shaking.
- [49:03]
Amazon One Medical
I think we probably need, like, more information. Like, I think we need a follow up to this because I think our implementation this one episode's gonna be a little wild, but we'll play around.
- [49:15]
Jill
Michelle, this has opened up a can of worms that may or may not be good for the show.
- [49:22]
Amazon One Medical
So for me, I did talk already about the trees that fell on our property and our house, and I'm not gonna go there right now. You can listen to other episodes to find out about that. I'm gonna pick. I was looking into flights to go to see family for Christmas and was planning on booking this one ticket, their tickets. And as I was checking out, the prices doubled. I didn't think that that was legal. They could just change the prices when you're in the process of checking out. But it happened. And so that was overwhelming to me because it was already a lot of money, and then to double that amount was just beyond what I was willing to spend. And it made me sweaty. So I just walked away. I was like, I'm not gonna let this cause me a sense of urgency. And now I think I'm gonna stay put for Christmas. So, I mean, I'm good with that though. I really. A quiet Christmas after this book launch sounds great. And I think Michelle would agree if I can speak for you. So, yeah, that's how I handled that. I walked away and I said, nope, not today. You're not taking my money. But had I had. I had this conversation earlier, maybe I would have done some jumping jacks, but I still just would have walked away. I'm not. I'm not doing that Anyways, Michelle, this was incredible. Wish we had at least two more hours with you. And our audience probably does too. So if they can get at least two more hours with you, where can they find you?
- [51:02]
Jen
Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. You can find me on my podcast. It's called the Calm mom and it's all we talk about. There is nervous system Solutions for anxiety, overwhelm and burnout. You guys should come listen. We're having Jen and Jill on the podcast so you can come hear them on my show and then you can find me on my website. Michelle.grocer.com.
- [51:24]
Jill
Thank you so much, Michelle. This has been fantastic. I speak for myself and hopefully and your friend. Yeah, and my friend. My hypothetical friend.
- [51:35]
Amazon One Medical
Thanks for being here.
- [51:40]
Jill
Yeah, that was a lot. We had to wait a little while to record this intro outro, I think to give ourselves a little space between.
- [51:49]
Amazon One Medical
It, just to let it all sink in, I think, a bit. And like we said, it's not as if some of this is entirely new information. I just really appreciated the way that she presented it and helped us understand how each thing connects with the others. I think sometimes we've got these pieces that are just out there, disconnected. Like, we've heard of Somatic Movement. We've heard of Fight, Flight, Freeze. We've heard of Overspending. But okay, how do all of these play together? How do we integrate our whole personhood? So, yes, there's a lot of congruence with our messaging, but I think on this specific topic, to really see how it all flows together and the simple practices that we can be doing to help ourselves on a regular basis as we inevitably hit these points.
- [52:43]
Jill
Yeah, I don't think that it's life changing. I think it is definitely mind changing in that I overlooked this stuff and the impact it could have physically. And I think this hit me because I was just having a conversation with a friend last night about how our bodies, somehow we got into our mid-30s and our bodies started doing things because of stress when normally all our lives we've been very chill people, like very even keeled. Nobody would describe either of us as super emotional. And we've really prided ourselves in that and taken that identity on. And that doesn't mean that the emotions and the stress are not there in our body. And so to have that conversation last night and then to have this conversation today was very timely. So I hope it's helped you. Maybe give you another tool in your tool belt. When thinking about why your actions are not aligning with what your head says you want to do. And if it has helped you in some way, we'd love for you to leave a rating and review on Apple or a rating and comment on Spotify. Kind of like this one. It's from Kathleen123, happens to be five stars. Says it's not too late. I was never taught about money. In fact, I was taught to never talk about it. And it was only through finding the Frugal Friends podcast that I realized I could educate myself. Frugal Friends makes learning about new ways of thinking around money and frugality easy and friendly. The hosts seem like empathetic people who've been there, done that, and are giving you their best advice from those experiences. I feel hopeful about the future. Now I'm making changes and have told friends who are now listening, which means, hey, I have frugal friends too.
- [54:42]
Amazon One Medical
So cute. Thank you, Kathleen. 1, 2, 3. That's such a kind review. We so appreciate this kind of helpful feedback and encouragement for others to kind of know what they're going to find when they tune in. So these reviews are so, so helpful for us. If you're listening and you haven't taken a chance to leave us a rating and review wherever you're listening, please do that. It would mean the world to us.
- [55:06]
Jill
Yes. And we'll see you next time.
- [55:08]
Amazon One Medical
Bye.
- [55:10]
Jill
Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianna. Jill, I have a question that I should have asked during the interview.
- [55:27]
Amazon One Medical
Yeah.
- [55:27]
Jill
And I'm thinking if I don't know it, I'm sure a lot of people out there don't know it. What does fawn mean? Because y'all are saying fight, flight, freeze, Fawn.
- [55:38]
Amazon One Medical
Right.
- [55:38]
Jill
And I know fight, flight and a freeze. I know how to do those.
- [55:43]
Amazon One Medical
Right? Yeah.
- [55:44]
Jill
What is fawn?
- [55:45]
Amazon One Medical
Fawn is it's adjacent to freezing, but kind of like a more timid approach to it. So, like you're not incredibly frozen, but you have like this timid reaction. Now I'm realizing I'm not describing this very well. So here we go with Google.
- [56:08]
Jen
Yes.
- [56:09]
Jill
Our friend who's like our frenemy in 2025.
- [56:13]
Amazon One Medical
I know Google's not been that great.
- [56:15]
Jill
It's really been bad for our business.
- [56:18]
Amazon One Medical
Yeah. Like people pleasing behaviors, avoiding the real danger or threat. So it's not an entirely like you're not running away, but you're not freezing.
- [56:30]
Jill
You're going with other people. You're just kind of like, yeah, okay.
- [56:34]
Amazon One Medical
Like a little baby fawn deer where you're just like timidly responding to it, not pushing back to the circumstantial.
- [56:45]
Jill
Yeah.
- [56:46]
Amazon One Medical
I think it's been an addition in the last couple of years to those, like three kind of known responses to help us understand some of the more nuances that can happen when it comes to certain type of like threatening circumstances, that there's something kind of in between there where it's not just a frozen response. I'm not doing nothing. I am doing something, but it's certainly not fighting.
- [57:13]
Jen
Mm.
- [57:14]
Jill
Okay. Got it. Like when Rhysand goes to in the queen, I forget her name, but he like, he goes around with her and pretends to be like her minion, but he like that is a survival.
- [57:31]
Amazon One Medical
Yeah, that would be a survival instinct. Absolutely.
- [57:34]
Jill
Yeah.
- [57:34]
Amazon One Medical
He's not. I mean, I guess you could argue that's a version of fighting, but he doesn't care.
- [57:40]
Jill
He kills a lot of people.
- [57:42]
Amazon One Medical
He's not a good guy. Yeah. Fight.
- [57:44]
Jill
He was timid.
- [57:46]
Amazon One Medical
Freeze. He's not running away. He's not frozen. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. Way to bring in Acotar.
- [57:52]
Jill
Yeah, you're welcome.
- [57:55]
Jen
The Unshakables podcast is kicking off season two with an episode you won't want to miss. Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business, as he welcomes a very special guest, Chairman and CEO of JP.
- [58:08]
Lifelock
Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon.
- [58:10]
Jen
Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh, moments Jamie has overcome. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices.
- [58:21]
Lifelock
Message and data rates may apply. JP Morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC.
- [58:27]
Jen
Copyright 2025 JP Morgan Chase & Co.
- [58:31]
Michelle Grosser
Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report at David's Bridal.
- [59:03]
Amazon One Medical
Love is in every stitch, from the initial sketch to the final details. Each style is designed with exquisite craftsmanship. Every wedding gown, bridesmaid look, prom dress.
- [59:12]
Jen
And special occasion style in between features.
- [59:14]
Amazon One Medical
Handcrafted details filled with love.
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Jen
Come see the magic in person.
- [59:19]
Amazon One Medical
Book an appointment and sign up for diamond loyalty to save 15% on your first purchase, earn points towards special rewards.
- [59:26]
Jen
And more at davidsbridal.com Odoo is business management made so simple a kid could explain it. Sometimes business software can't talk to other programs, but Odoo, Funny Word, has every program from CRM to HR to accounting in one platform. It should cost a lot, but it doesn't. So you should use Odoo because they save you money. Odoo makes a lot of sense, but doesn't cost a lot of sense. Sign up now@odoo.com. that's O D O O dot com. Good job.
- [60:00]
Amazon One Medical
Thanks.