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- [00:00]
Jay Zygmunt
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- [00:47]
Jen
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- [00:52]
Jay Zygmunt
Offer ends March 31st. See if your company qualifies for this special offer@oracle.com strategic that's oracle.com strategic hi.
- [01:01]
Jen
Friend, it's your inner child calling and they want churros. A new toy and a new adventure. Or maybe five with the bestest besties on Earth. Find your moment at Walt Disney World.
- [01:27]
Jay Zygmunt
Resort.
- [01:30]
Jen
Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report, Lowe's knows how.
- [02:01]
Jay Zygmunt
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- [02:25]
Jen
Details@lowe's.com Terms subject to change Episode 485 how to Budget if you don't have kids with Jay Zygmon welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast where you'll learn to.
- [02:41]
Jill
Save money, embrace simplicity and live a richer life. Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.
- [02:54]
Jen
Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast. My name is Jen. My name is Jill and today we are talking to all you dinks, all you sinks, all you, all you frugal friends out there who do not have children or and mostly do not plan to have children, at least not in the near future. Always have every right to throw them a curveball in the story, but right now, don't plan to have children.
- [03:20]
Jill
Yeah, I talked with Jay on his podcast recently, and so now we're having him on ours to recognize that there's a good percentage of the population who this is our lifestyle. As you know, Jen has two children. Eric and I do not. We're solidly in our 30s. So recognizing that this advice needs to be out there, like it's not the most common experience for people, but it is still an experience for many of us and to recognize that some of the traditional personal finance advice doesn't actually fit us. And so Jay is specifically geared towards working with people who don't have children and helping them to define what their lives can look like, how their finances may look different. He also counsels couples, so a lot of research and wisdom coming from him. He wrote a book on, on Being Child Free. So we're excited to be able to hear from him on this really important topic.
- [04:24]
Jen
But first, this episode is brought to you by Beating around the Bush. I'm not gonna do it. This episode brought to you by the Friend Letter. Every week we send out via email where to find free events, free food, what you should be doing to stay on top of your spending habits and your finances. And if that sounds like something you need, you want that thrice weekly reminder, then head to frugalfriendspodcast.com to sign up for free. It's really fun. Always some good suggestions and ideas in there. And we're going to have Jay's interview linked in there. Jay is a PhD, MBA and certified financial planner who works exclusively with couples and singles who plan to remain who are and plan to remain permanently childless. And he is currently the first and only life and financial planning firm dedicated to serving child free people. So this was, and honestly, there was some just really good life advice in this episode. So if you, I'm excited for you to hear.
- [05:29]
Jill
If you're listening and you're like, oh, I do have kids maybe, should I turn it off? I'd say keep going because there's definitely some conversation that we have that I think is good for all people. So glad to have you here again. Jay's book is called Child Free Wealth. So let's get into it.
- [05:50]
Jen
Jay, welcome to Frugal Friends. So Happy to have you here.
- [05:53]
Jay Zygmunt
Thanks for having me.
- [05:55]
Jill
I had a great time coming on your show and we are excited to have you on ours to talk about the ways that our money can look different for those of us who don't have children. So from your perspective, your expertise, Jay, I'm curious to hear what you've seen are the biggest differences in money management for people without kids compared to those who do have kids.
- [06:17]
Jay Zygmunt
Yeah. So I use the term child free. So just for definitions, as people who don't have kids don't plan on kids ever. It's not like you're child free for the weekend. So, like, when I'm talking about people don't have kids, like it's a lifetime thing versus not yet. And when you're doing that, the interesting thing is your goals are different. So for parents, there's kind of the standard life script. You go to school, you get married, you have kids. It's the American dream. The house, the two and a half kids, the white picket fence. But for child free people, it's a different path. And it's not better or worse, it's just different. So, for example, how much money you pass on to the next generation is not a priority for most child free people. For my wife and I, our nephews get what's left over, but if they get 10 grand or 100 grand, that's fine. If they get a million dollars, we made a mistake. Like there actually can be too much money as a child free person. And if that's the case, you can actually do different things with your money. And having a high net worth may not be the goal. To the point where I have a lot of child free folks that get to kind of mid-30s, mid-40s, and I tell them, hey, you're going to have a problem, you're going to die with too much money. Which just sounds really weird, but it's true. And if that's the case, how do you spend your money either on the people you love, the things you want to give on yourself and shift your life to match the life you want to live?
- [07:36]
Jill
Yeah, I think. You know what, who you're talking to is definitely a minority. But we still exist. We still matter, right?
- [07:46]
Jay Zygmunt
It's 25% of you, so yes, it's a minority. But in comparison, the LGBTQ community is 8% of the US and about 50% of the LGBTQ + community is child free. So we're talking about a huge, like one in four Americans. So it's not like it's like you Know, three people down the, down the street.
- [08:05]
Jill
Yeah, it still is a lot of people, but. But still we are ingesting typical personal finance education and advice. And I know even for myself, this is Jill speaking, I don't have kids. And all of the traditional advice is you 529, save for kids retirement. These are part of the steps that you're supposed to be taking. And then invest in retirement not just for yourselves, but what do you want to leave behind as you're saying to kids? And so there is quite a bit that can be reoriented for not just the long term, but what I'm hearing you describe is some of the short term too, with how we're spending money now if we don't have some of these more longer term goals.
- [08:45]
Jay Zygmunt
Yeah. And you know, if you've been around finance for long enough, you've probably heard of the seven baby steps. We actually have a program, I put out a new book we call the eight no baby steps. You know, and a lot of the basics, like getting on a budget, getting out of debt, you know, you have an emergency fund, that's all same, but then it's like what am I doing with my money? What's the impact I want to make? What brings me joy? And really a lot of child free people kind of that mid-30s, mid-40s hit the childfree midlife crisis, which is I've hit my personal professional financial goals. I'm like now what? What's the point of working just to put a bunch of money in the bank if I'm not enjoying it? What's the point of doing the standard process if it doesn't fit my life?
- [09:29]
Jen
So what is after the basics are met? Because the basics will be the same for child with child versus child free. What is that first differentiating step step that childfree people should be making with their money?
- [09:44]
Jay Zygmunt
Yeah. So our no baby step four is save and invest towards your goals. And that's specific because interesting enough, a lot of child free folks don't want to retire or like not the classic retirement. You know, I have a lot of clients that are like therapists and they want to like cut back from four days of work to two of seeing clients, something like that. So if retirement's not your goal, what do you want to save towards? Even things like buying a house are a choice for child free people, not a requirement. So what it really requires is we the way we do it is you have to plan for your life first, then your finances. Like what is it that matters to you if you're working in a couple. Often we'll have couples approach something we call the gardener in the Rose, where one's providing support and one's growing. Well, how do we invest in that person that's growing? That could be moving, that could be, you know, going back to school? Could be anything for my wife and I, she got offered a job 1200 miles away. We packed up the dogs and the cat and went. I mean, the biggest hassle was putting two massives in the back of a Prius, which is hilarious to see, but, like, we could invest our money in us and the life we want to live rather than just like, putting it mindlessly into a retirement account, which goes against a lot of the basic, you know, tenants of financial planning.
- [11:03]
Jill
Okay, this is a little bit of a side tangent, but this gardener and grower piece, is this something you talk about a lot with couples? Something that you see, like, go in seasonality? Can you say more about this concept?
- [11:15]
Jay Zygmunt
Yeah. So originally I didn't come up with it. Like, you know, I can't take credit for it. It's called the Garden and the flower, but I always called the garden of the rose because my wife is no just any flower. She's a rose. So, yes, like, what we do is. It's kind of an interesting thing that happens with couples in that it's really hard to find two careers at the same level at the same time at the same place. So my wife and I were both PhDs. We both spent some time in academia and in academics. They always have, like, kind of the position for the tenure track person. And then they have this thing called the trailing spouse, which to me just sounds terrible. It's like the leftover job for somebody like, ha, ha, you're not as good as your spouse. Here's what we give you. So trying to get away from that with the Garden of the Rose is you have a conscious effort to take turns in those roles. Because I personally don't think it's possible. There's a book out, like the 80% marriage. Like, you both settle 80% of what you want. I think that just causes resentment where instead of we're taking turns, we both get that opportunity to grow. And it doesn't have to be career, you know, so for me, when I'm the rose, I'm going to get in a boat and travel the world. You know, that's already planned five to seven years down the road from now. That's what we're doing. And when we do this with couples that Awareness that we're going to take turns goes a long way because it allows the rose to be a little more selfish, because that's intentional, because they know, the gardener knows, hey, they're going to get a turn, and the rose knows, this is my turn. And when you have that, like, good conversation about it, it gets away from a lot of the resentment or, you know, the judgments or other things, and it tends to work out.
- [12:58]
Jill
Yeah. I think you're identifying a lot of the fluidity that can happen in a life lived of adulthood without having children, and some of this negotiation that happens. It's. I've never put those words to it, but Eric and I have experienced this so many times. I've gotten my master's degree while married and started a business, and he started a business. And there's been different times where we've kind of ebbed and flowed in that way, and we've appreciated that flexibility. I think a lot of that was available to us because we don't have children. And, you know, some of those typical constraints that can happen with that. But I think what you're saying here is having even the language to put around it can help to define it a little bit more, have a little bit more of that give and take and reciprocity. And I just appreciate kind of the underlying awareness of life can look different, and that's okay. We can give ourselves permission to sit, not just say, well, okay, I won't invest in a 529 because I don't have kids. But there's a whole other conversation that can be happening here of what do we want with life both now and in the future, beyond just thinking we just have to tweak a couple of little things here.
- [14:08]
Jen
Yeah. I mean, and even, like, I have kids, and I'm sitting here thinking, this is such a healthy conversation. Like, we just launched a book, and my husband is doing a lot more of the home caregiving, and I'm off a lot more doing work stuff. But when this all dies down, it can switch back and forth, and it has before. So this is just healthy advice. No matter whether you're child free for life, child free for now, or, like, in a, you know, a gaggle of children.
- [14:45]
Jill
Just a whole gaggle.
- [14:46]
Jay Zygmunt
A gaggle, A gaggle. How many. How many is that? Six?
- [14:49]
Jen
Two for me.
- [14:51]
Jill
Two.
- [14:52]
Jay Zygmunt
I mean, anything over over zero is a gaggle to me. But, like, so the one thing I'm going to challenge both of you on is having the conversation up front of, like, what are the roles and to what timeframe? And it's not a hard and fast timeframe, but it really helps to have that clarity versus just falling into it. A lot of folks do fall into it. You know, hey, I'm busy at work or whatever. But just that awareness that I'm gonna lean on you for a little bit of time and then you get to lean on me tends to help the conversation.
- [15:22]
Jen
Yeah, I wish we had had. I wish I'd had this insight and could have had a clearer conversation with my husband before all of this. Like, we still had the conversation, but it was. I didn't know the words to use. Or like Gardner and Rose. I think that would have been really helpful.
- [15:40]
Jill
We might be getting at some of this already, but what would you say, Jay, are the biggest mistakes that child free people can make with their money?
- [15:50]
Jay Zygmunt
So I think when you talk about mistakes, I try not to, like, shame people. Like, you did that wrong, you know, but what tends to happen with child free folks is they've left the standard life script, so they're on their own path, they're doing their own thing, but then they get pulled back to the standard life script for other things. So let's talk about buying a house, for example. Buying a house, if you have kids and you're going to stay in the school system and you have family in the area. I get it. If you're child free and you're going to move every three to five years, renting is a perfectly fine choice. You know, my wife and I sold our house and we rent. And I'm a big fan of renting because it gives you flexibility. But the standard life script says the only way to get ahead is to buy a house, buy real estate, do all these other things, and you end up with kind of head trash between the life you want to live and what other people are saying you do. And to the point, I will ask my client, whose voice in your head saying, you got to do that. And it's very rarely there. It's culture, it's religion, it's parents, it's. And I'm like you, they're. They're not living the same life as you. Why are you listening to them? And then they'll go, well, but I don't know any other option. Okay, well, at least that I can work through. But it's that awareness of I'm getting pulled back to this standard script that doesn't fit me.
- [17:12]
Jen
Yes. That is so much. When we talk about spending and people are trying to justify what they spend money on. With like, I need this or I deserve this. And, like, hearing, like, what are the voices in your head saying that you need to buy this or that this is a problem that you need to solve by purchasing something. And it's usually, like, not theirs.
- [17:35]
Jay Zygmunt
Yep. And we're talking about a house purchase, so we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I had somebody the other day, I'm like, did your house. We always try to, like, balance things. Say, how do we make your finances simple so your life could be amazing? They're going to be a landlord. And I said, okay, that's not gonna make your finances more simple. And they said, okay, great. I said, and nobody's ever told me being a landlord makes your life more amazing. Like, you know, like, you're dealing with renters you're dealing with. And they're like, you're right. But my dad says, I gotta get. You know. And I'm like, okay, your dad bought a house in the 1960s when it was $16,000. Okay. Like, it's not the same world and you're not living the same life.
- [18:15]
Jill
So true.
- [18:16]
Jen
Yeah. I also am a landlord, and I can. I agree with that.
- [18:22]
Jay Zygmunt
Yeah. Is it worth it? Is the question. And, like, I'm like, okay, we can invest you in a real estate investment trust and you don't do any work if you really want access to real estate. Like, but you're told you have to do this because that's what's expected.
- [18:33]
Jen
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- [18:47]
Jill
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- [18:58]
Jen
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- [19:12]
Jill
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- [19:37]
Jay Zygmunt
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- [20:27]
Jen
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- [20:29]
Jay Zygmunt
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- [20:37]
Jill
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- [20:52]
Jen
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- [21:04]
Jill
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- [21:18]
Jen
Get up to 10 free meals and a free high protein item for life@hellofresh.com frugal10fm One item per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's up to 10 free HelloFresh meals. Just go to hellofresh.com frugal10fm hi friend, it's your inner child calling and they want churros, a new toy and a new adventure or maybe five with the bestest besties on earth. Find your moment at Walt Disney World Resort. I am really interested in the difference how you would counsel someone who is a single like child free because they are single and single intentionally versus couples. Like what do you what, like, financial advice do you give to the person who is not in a relationship?
- [22:32]
Jay Zygmunt
So 32% of childless folks will never marry, as opposed to 2.5% of parents. So we're talking about a third of our folks are what we call soloists, single with no kids. Some people don't like the single term, so we use soloist. And it costs between $400,000 and a million dollars across your lifetime to be single. Because, like, you can't split, like the rent, you can't split the electric bill, you can't split the groceries. And people don't catch that. Like, our society is not made for singles. You know, like, we really should have some community housing. Things we can share, different things, but it just doesn't exist. And what happens for our soloists is they have a lot of choices. You know, the way we say it is living a life a child free. Wealthy means you have more time, money, and freedom to do what you enjoy. Doesn't mean you're rich. Income disparities are still the same, but then it's like almost too many choices. Like, if you don't have a limit to where you can live, what do you do? And we talked to the soloists. They're like, maybe you need an accountability partner to bounce things off of, someone that can work with you on it. And it doesn't have to be a professional. It could be a friend, can be whatever, but someone that can speak into your life, to just be a sounding board, which sounds simple, but that's actually hard to find, somebody you feel comfortable talking about your money. You know, when I, when I did my first book, I did a whole bunch of interviews and I found out people would rather talk about their sex life than their money. Like, you know, it's like this, like, taboo thing. I'm like, no. And then the hardest part for single folks may actually be towards the end of life of who makes decisions for me when I can't, which is often overlooked. You know, if you have kids, your next of kin tends to be that default choice. If you're in a couple, your spouse might be the first choice. But if you're child free, you're single, who does that? And if you don't have a will in place, you know, power, attorney in place, all that, the government's making the decisions for you, which I'm not getting political. I'm like, I don't care which side you're on. Nobody trusts the government to make decisions for you. And that is really hard for single folks to the point where it's something I've been working on for about three years now, a solution for this. And we hope to have a solution coming out from our company later in the year on this. But in California or Arizona, you can pay a professional to do this called professional fiduciary. In the other states, you can't. So if you're in the other 48 states, you're like, hey, I need somebody to be my medical power attorney, my financial power attorney, my executor. You gotta find a friend you like. And I had somebody email me the other day. She's 71. And you can you ever read an email? You, like, see the panic in the email? Like, you can, like, this is one of those. And she's like, I'm 71, I'm single. I've got a little bit of money, but not a lot. The only family I have is a nephew across country that I've never met. How do I find somebody to make these decisions for me? And I felt back because my answer was like, she's in Washington. I'm like, I don't have an answer in Washington right now. We're working on trying to solve it, but you can see this panic. And one of the problems is if she names her nephew, like, oh. She was like, can I give him the money in my will? You can, but if you name him in your will and he's also the one putting you in the home, he might put you in the not so good home in order to save money, so he gets more in the will. Like, you think those things don't happen, but that abuse does. And these are the type of things that soloists have to deal with. And there's not a solution. Like, I talked to an expert on this who's been doing this for a decade, working with solos only, and she's like, my best solution is live in a trailer park where everybody has a small community together. Or like a Golden Girls home. But that doesn't always work, at least not for the last friend to live.
- [26:18]
Jen
I think my next business is creating Golden Girls homes. I think that is what I want to get into.
- [26:26]
Jay Zygmunt
So I had a real estate expert reach out to me and he was trying to get into working with dinks and different things, and that's doing from no kids. I said to myself, you're missing the boat. The answer is these community homes, whatever you want to call them, but they have to be fun. You know, it's like, I had somebody for one of my books. She wants to buy a castle. And every one of the single ladies gets a different room in the castle. And they all live in a castle for the last days. I was like, you know, that would actually work.
- [26:57]
Jill
I mean that'd be awesome.
- [26:58]
Jen
Wow.
- [26:59]
Jill
It has an elevator.
- [27:00]
Jen
That is right.
- [27:02]
Jay Zygmunt
I know, but I'm like, just to make sure it's not too drafty. But you know, we have not as a society gotten to understand there are so many people out there that are living child free lives. But our system is all based on still kind of the nuclear family, the American dream, all that. And it's just a challenge.
- [27:24]
Jen
So what is one thing that if somebody single with no kids is listening right now? What's kind of maybe one protection they can put in place? Or one thing they might, you think they might want to change about their planning right now?
- [27:37]
Jay Zygmunt
So if I, if I had to pick just one thing, I would get something on paper for who makes decisions for you, Your will, your power of attorney. And by the way, you can do that cheaply. I mean, there's a website called freewill.com like you can get it for free. Like besides getting a notary you might have to pay whatever 10 bucks for. But even if you don't have a best answer for who makes decisions for you, your friend that you kind of think is a better answer is probably a better answer than a random government person. And then you can specify in your will who gets your stuff because if you don't, the government gets it. I was just meeting with a banking regulator and I asked them, what's your process if somebody dies, you know, don't have kids? They said they post it on their website. And I'm like, so I've got to look at all 50 states across the country, like I guess every week to see if my cousin died. And they're like, well, yeah, people don't reach out to us. And then if they don't reach out, it just goes to the government's pocket, which is part of the reason why the government doesn't look. So if you got nothing else you can do, get the paperwork done. It's not going to cost you much. And you can at least get it, you know, you can update it whenever you want later, but get your first set. I don't care what age you are.
- [28:48]
Jill
These long term considerations are so helpful and often not on our radar for any of us to be considering a will. And you know what, we want to happen for us medically and just assigning beneficiaries like these things are very important. And I also like what you're describing here of thinking bigger picture, what do I want for my life to be able to know? It doesn't have to look status quo. It doesn't have to mean that I am buying a house. And it could mean that I get to have, as you said, you know, more time flexibility, more freedom, more money in my pocket. As we distill that down then for kind of the day to day or month to month, like our present moments, how do you counsel people in what making a spending plan looks like? Then if we've been able to identify, okay, I've got this vision now for what I want my life to look like, how do we then incorporate that into the here and now?
- [29:47]
Jay Zygmunt
So we've tracked it with our clients and we're a financial planning firm, so we do a lot of work with, you know, our focus is child free folks. We do a lot of work on investments, all the things. We actually spend more time talking about spending money than saving money. Because what happens is if you're good at saving, like you just like that's your habit and it's actually harder to teach you how to spend money. So when I'm talking about a spending plan, it's usually getting people to spend more, not cut back. And, and that sounds a little different, but I'm trying to make sure they're getting to that goal. If they don't care about how much money they pass on next generation, we don't want them die with millions. We want to match them. And what tends to happen is that first step you're talking about, like, I have a plan for my life. That's the hardest one. Most people don't have that answer. That takes forever to figure out. Once we have it, we will set goals. So I will set actually minimum spending goals on the things that matter to them. For example, a lot of our clients are travel enthusiasts. You know, they just love travel. Good thing about being child free is like you can pick a random time of the year and travel and you know, you can find the cheaper times, you can go random places. And what we'll often do is we'll say, all right, we want you to spend more on travel. And they start getting into kind of this guilt thing about like, well, can I really spend that on me? Is it okay for me to spend that much? And what we'll try to do is kind of offset it is. We'll say, all right, how about we do an equal amount of giving to the charities that matter to you or the people that matter to you as we do to travel. You know, I have a couple right now we're working on, hey, I want you to travel for $100,000 a year and give away $100,000 a year. Which sounds crazy, but at the end of the year I will ask them like, which did you get more out of, the giving or the travel? Most of the times it's the giving. So we can find ways to shift their mindset around money. It's much like what you've got in your book of like, how does it match your values, the impact you want to make, the bigger picture stuff. And it's interesting, once they get used to it, they can start spending a bit more. But I still got people with, you know, millions and millions of dollars cutting coupons. And I'm like, first of all, there's apps for that now. But like, you don't need to cut coupons anymore. Like, you're okay. Do you really want to spend hours cutting coupons? And, and I did have one client go, I enjoy it. I'm like, okay, fine, you know, like that's. You enjoy. But it's that mindset that becomes tough to deal with.
- [32:15]
Jill
How do you help child free people identify what is excess? Because like, for someone like me, I still, I'm gonna need money. I'm not imagining that there's gonna be anyone to care for me. Um, I'll probably outlive my husband if it, you know, we just have the status quo life expectancy. So I do wanna invest. But I am also hearing what you're saying, that there's all these other demands on money that, you know, people with kids have that, that I don't have. But, but I could spend this. I actually don't have to do all of these other things with my money. How can I know what, what that excess is?
- [32:52]
Jay Zygmunt
Yeah, so the first thing is I really don't truly want you dying with zero. Like, you know, I don't want you like at the end, you know, having to work at Walmart to pay the bills, like that's the worst outcome. So what we're going to do is we create a die with zero safety net is what we call it, where we have a plan for long term care. So if you came to me as a client, we'd actually figure out whether you put money aside for long term care or insurance, which long term care is really expensive. So $115,000 a year mental spend 2.2 years in care, women 3.7, which I'm a half million dollars today. But we'll figure out that plan for long term care. We'll put off getting Social Security till 70 of a little cash cushion and then what I'll show you is in the system how much money you're going to die with. Now this is where we're doing Monte Carlo simulation, other things we're looking at the, you know, expected return investments. That's all guesstimate work. But what tends to happen is people realize they hit their goal a long time ago. So a lot of folks use kind of like that safe withdrawal rate number of 4% they'll take their expenses times 25. That's how much I have debt for retirement. That all assumes you want to pass on money into the next generation. Doesn't fit child free people. So you know, if you and your husband came sat down with me, I'd say okay, you've got your safety net. This is what you need at the end, this is what you have left. How do we bend the curve on your net worth so it stops always going up? The problem is if you've got a kind of quote unquote standard financial advisor who's charging a percentage of your assets, it's assets under management fee. There's a conflict of interest because your advisor always wants to go up because that means their salary goes up. So you've got to like find somebody that's willing to work with you and go, okay, let's make an active effort to bring this down over time. And what normally happens is for the people kind of 30s and 40s, it means giving up that job you hate and doing something you enjoy. It might slow down your retirement but you're okay. Or it might mean going back to school. I don't know why. I have a lot of folks that want to go back and be a librarian. Sounds like a cool job. I don't know.
- [34:50]
Jen
Love librarians, right?
- [34:52]
Jay Zygmunt
But like how do you do that? And I think what happens is the risk. And it sounds like you and your husband are getting close to this is people get into mindlessly saving like they just always been saving, always put into retirement and at some point it could be too much.
- [35:07]
Jill
I also appreciate how we're not just talking about, we're talking about numbers, right. And some of the math and the strategy to that. But also lifestyle pieces that we can also be exploring that there could then be seasons where we can step back a little bit. We don't have to be hustling so hard and just that awareness for what does the season require of me? What do what's actually enough when it comes to money? And how can I reorient and make sure that I'm both enjoying my present life and working towards future goals, but that both matter in this equation.
- [35:42]
Jay Zygmunt
Yeah, we're not doing yolo. Okay? Like, this is not, like, let me just spend it all and be broke at the end. No. It's a definite plan that matches your life.
- [35:50]
Jill
Do you know what else is a definite plan that matches our life?
- [35:54]
Jen
Our lifestyle?
- [35:54]
Jill
Yeah. Whether it's not the bill of the week.
- [36:09]
Jay Zygmunt
That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills.
- [36:23]
Jen
Buffalo Bills.
- [36:24]
Jay Zygmunt
Bill Clinton.
- [36:26]
Jen
This is the bill of the week, Jay. Every week we invite our guests and listeners, after yelling at them, of course, to share with us their bill for the week. And we are excited to hear yours.
- [36:42]
Jay Zygmunt
So, okay, I've got a love hate thing with one bill. All right. My splurge. This kind of personal splurge is I've got all the streaming services, like, pretty much, except for Apple TV annoys the living daylights out of me because it's 10 bucks a month. Okay, it's not a lot of money, but I run out of shows on there almost every time. You know, I'm getting to the last couple episodes of Silo and then this is going away, but, like, I know I can afford the 10 bucks, but for some reason, the fact that I not going to touch it for a month or two bothers me for that one streaming service but not the others.
- [37:18]
Jen
It is so interesting because Apple has prioritized quality over quantity, but it kind of shoots them in the foot, like, because we've got this going on.
- [37:28]
Jay Zygmunt
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm not my Netflix. I've never canceled because there's always something I can find on there.
- [37:33]
Jen
No, ain't gonna be good.
- [37:35]
Jay Zygmunt
I was gonna say, like, there's some stuff I watch while I'm doing other work because it's pointless. But, like, I. I think, you know, people get, like, there's a lot of stuff on subscriptions and should you have a whole bunch, whatever. Actually, the best financial would be like, I watched this for three months, then I cancel that and I go another streaming. I'm like, that's way too much work and I don't commit to anything. Like, you know, this show. This week I'm watching Tulsa King on Paramount. Cool. And then I'm like, I might skip that for a little bit and go over to Hulu, but Apple tv, you're right, it, there's something wrong because it just, I've canceled it probably half a dozen times.
- [38:14]
Jill
Yeah, yeah, same issue here. And it's making me realize that then sometimes apparently I'm paying $10 a month just for that one show. And remember when we used to be able to buy entire DVD sets of a show for $10? Like, and here we are potentially paying 20 to 30 to watch it over the course of a couple of months. I think this is the double edged sword of being aware of our money. Even if you can afford something, I think we still value being good stewards of the resource. And if we don't feel like we're getting good value in return, then yeah, it's gonna, it's gonna irk me too. I'm with you, Jay.
- [38:52]
Jen
Ah, I have been so interested in Apple TV shows. But yeah, I've never, I've, I've never subscribed. So I don't know what they're like, but I've heard great things.
- [39:01]
Jill
Guess they'll never sponsor us now.
- [39:03]
Jay Zygmunt
I was gonna say, like, you've gone the wrong direction if you want that, but I mean, they've got some good shows but like as soon as I'm done with that update, I'm like, I'm gone.
- [39:12]
Jill
Yeah, yeah, great point. Love that. If you all listening, have a bill that you want to submit. If it has to do with subscription services. You have a love hate relationship with bills. You don't mind paying bills. You love paying a person named Bill whether or not you love or hate them. Frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill, we can't wait to hear it.
- [39:33]
Jen
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- [40:32]
Jill
@ Ameca Insurance, we know it's more.
- [40:35]
Jen
Than just a car.
- [40:37]
Jay Zygmunt
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- [42:01]
Jill
And now it's time for the lightning round.
- [42:07]
Jen
All right, now in our vulnerability round, we're all gonna go. And our question today is what it she's changed. As soon as I go to read the question, she has changed.
- [42:21]
Jill
Go for it.
- [42:22]
Jen
What is your favorite way to spend money, Jay?
- [42:28]
Jay Zygmunt
So I already talked about streaming services. That is one of them. But the other one is I'm a video game guy. Like I buy a whole bunch of games, but I'll tell you, my Steam collection is a bunch of games I haven't played yet. But there's New Civilization coming out in a month, so. So that's where I'm going to spend some money and hopefully get to spend a lot of time.
- [42:47]
Jill
Do you enjoy the TV shows that are based off of games? Are those fun for you?
- [42:52]
Jay Zygmunt
They're 50. 50. So the fallout show is great.
- [42:55]
Jill
Yeah, I did enjoy Fallout.
- [42:57]
Jay Zygmunt
A lot of the other ones I'm like, yeah, like they made it too campy, too gamey. Like you missed the show on the way by.
- [43:06]
Jill
Yeah, that makes sense. It's not an all or nothing nice. My favorite is travel. I just love to travel. It is easy for me to say no to a lot of other things. But to be able to get on a plane, go places, see new sites, enjoy some beautiful things, different cultures, that's my favorite. And I Love dropping some money on some of the luxurious things. Like, I am not doing hostels anymore. I know I'm a frugal friend, but that was for my twenties. These days it's four stars or higher. And, yeah, it just brings me so much joy.
- [43:44]
Jay Zygmunt
Okay. I'm over here talking about spending 100 bucks on a game, and you're over here spending 10 grand on the travel. Like, I. I didn't know we were going that level.
- [43:50]
Jill
I mean, what do you love?
- [43:52]
Jen
Okay, I'm not there. I. You will, Peter. You'll bring it back down. I'll bring us back down. And I would say mine is food. I love to grocery shop. I love to get takeout.
- [44:06]
Jill
You love grocery shopping?
- [44:07]
Jen
I actually do, but I do it on my phone.
- [44:10]
Jill
Okay.
- [44:10]
Jen
It's my online shopping.
- [44:12]
Jill
That's your video game. That is, like, you put the Nintendo Switch to, like, get your groceries.
- [44:18]
Jen
I really love. It hits my. Like, I love going to Costco. I just love, like, buying food and snacks. Like, I just love it. That is.
- [44:30]
Jill
Is there any particular food lately you're loving to buy?
- [44:35]
Jen
I love going to Costco because that I do shop, like, in store. So really, anything at Costco right now or Sam's club, I just alternate with the. With the membership so I can get the new member. Deal.
- [44:47]
Jill
Tell me you have kids without telling me you have kids.
- [44:51]
Jay Zygmunt
Okay. I like my snacks, and so does my wife. But, like, I don't enjoy shopping for them. I just enjoy eating them.
- [44:57]
Jen
I do. I like shopping for them.
- [44:59]
Jill
It does.
- [45:00]
Jen
I do.
- [45:00]
Jill
She likes being in and around food, getting food, eating food, talking about food.
- [45:05]
Jen
Yeah.
- [45:06]
Jill
Well, Jay, this has been very fun. Thanks for joining us. If people want to be around you talking about child free things, money, where can they get more from you?
- [45:17]
Jay Zygmunt
Yeah. So the new books, the Child free Guide to life and Money out in stores now. Child Free wealth on all the socials except for Twitter because he thinks childfree people should not vote. And childfreewealth.com Nice.
- [45:29]
Jen
And we saw it at Barnes and Noble when we were going to sign our book. So all of her books are sold?
- [45:34]
Jill
Yep. Thanks, Jay.
- [45:40]
Jen
I really loved the idea of the garden and the rose, and I think it's definitely something that it's language I will use more frequently to define our seasons because we talk about honoring your season, and when we have language to define our season, it becomes easier to honor it.
- [46:04]
Jill
Yeah. I think it's really illuminating, too, to be able to say my season might even be a little different from the season that I'm sharing a household with that it's not necessarily going to feel or look the same for you and your spouse or if you do have kids, you and your children and being able to communicate about those things of here's what we both want long term, but in order to there, I'm going to need to scale back or go full fours. And here's what we need to be able to do for one another in kind of that ebb and flow that can happen. But I think Jay brought up a good point that without talking about it, things can go really awry. And I think similarly just the overarching piece that he was laying out for us again, that I think is important for all people, regardless of whether or not you have children, to be looking at. What do I want out of life and do I have to. Does it have to look status quo or can I throw a curveball? Can I do these other things? Can I experience greater degrees of flexibility with the ways that I spend money? I just think that these are really important questions to be asking. So I'm really glad that he brought these questions to the surface.
- [47:18]
Jen
Yeah.
- [47:19]
Jill
So we hope that this was helpful for you all. We really appreciate you listening. We also really appreciate those of you who are leaving very kind reviews of the book. That's right, our book, Buy what yout Love without going Broke. It is now out there and I know that you've heard us talking about our book for a very long time, but it's finally released into the world and it now is forever and always available for purchase. And if you have purchased it, reviews go a long way. Same as they did do and did with the podcast. It's very helpful on a book. So we'd love it if you got the book anywhere books are bought and left us a review. Wherever you bought the book, you can leave one on Amazon. That's where this one came from. From Kay Montgomery, five stars. This was about Buy what you love without going Broke. They said I wasn't in debt, so I thought I was responsible with money, but I wasn't investing. I barely had enough to cover an emergency. I was mindlessly spending on stuff that didn't matter. Buy what you Love without going Broke is a wonderful book that talks about how to shift your mindset regarding the money you spend and what you want your money to be able to do with you. I I now think about each purchase and if it's something that is in alignment with what I want in life, is this helping me towards my goals? Is this something that I value Buy what you love without going broke is more of a mindset shift than a how to save money book, although it talks about that too. If you feel like you have struggled with money and how you spend but you want to get your finances in order, this is a great book to read. I also highly recommend listening to the Frugal Friends podcast too. Kay Montgomery thank you.
- [48:56]
Jen
Thank you so much.
- [48:57]
Jill
It's such a good summary of the book because I think we've described that it's not an exact step by step formulaic approach to finances. It is a lot more of that behavioral psychology and mindset and self understanding that gets incorporated and woven into money. While there is still tangible takeaways from the book and best practices, we dig a little bit deeper. So I'm glad that Kay Montgomery yeah is experiencing that.
- [49:29]
Jen
Thank you so much for reading. If you want to check out the book, head to buy what you love book.com with every purchase you will get over $200 worth of free resources at the resources page listed in the book. And if you liked the book, please leave a review wherever you purchased it or on Amazon or Goodreads. It helps us so much get the book into more hands.
- [49:55]
Jill
See you next time.
- [49:56]
Jen
Bye. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.
- [50:12]
Jill
So this is the first podcast episode we're recording in the new year because you all know us, we're a month ahead on recording our podcast, honestly. Yep, a month ahead. Out of order. But where it lands for us is this is the first time in the new year that we're recording. And fun fact for you all is that we got an office space so we are no longer in our homes. We are downtown St. Petersburg in a studio that we built out in a co working space and it's been a frigging blast.
- [50:50]
Jen
Such a blast. I am digging it and it has been a fantastic use of our business money.
- [50:59]
Jill
I will be posting, if I haven't already on our Instagram, just some of the behind the scenes of the build out of our studio and kind of how it's all come together so you all can have a visual because we're also planning on doing more YouTube stuff this year. So it's all coming together. But this has been very fun. There's people who are walking by the office. We've got a little cute hot pink on air sign so that people can know to be a little bit quieter when they walk by. But there's just so much more action happening as we're recording and that's been fun.
- [51:34]
Jen
Yeah. It will be a fun minimum of six months. That's how long we can't afford it.
- [51:41]
Jill
After six months, then we're out of here.
- [51:43]
Jen
We will real when the YouTube videos are up, we will really need you guys to stream those. And it won't be podcast episodes like this. It's going to be very new and very exciting and we're very, very new.
- [51:57]
Jill
It's very new.
- [51:58]
Jen
Very new. No one's ever done it before. Just kidding. But it is exciting and I think you guys will like it. We're not gonna bore you with the, you know, same thing most other podcasts are doing.
- [52:12]
Jill
So that is a little teaser, a little tantalizing teaser.
- [52:16]
Jen
We kind of looked at what other podcasts were doing and we were like, like, I don't really care to watch that. What do I want to watch?
- [52:24]
Jill
What do you want to watch? Stay tuned for what we think you want to watch.
- [52:30]
Jen
Yeah.
- [52:31]
Jill
Okay.
- [52:32]
Jay Zygmunt
Bye.
- [52:32]
Jen
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Jill
Kids are learning about money.
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Jen
With guardrails in place. Try Greenlight risk free today@greenlight.com iheart get.
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Jay Zygmunt
In Zone AutoZone welcome to AutoZone. What are you working on today?
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Jen
My check engine lights on that could.
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Jay Zygmunt
Hurt your gas mileage. The AutoZone Free Fix Finder service can help Find the fix for free.
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Jill
This whole report for free?
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Jay Zygmunt
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Jen
But what if the fix is too tough?
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Jay Zygmunt
We'll recommend a local shop fix finder only at AutoZone. Get in zone AutoZone restrictions apply.
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Jen
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