How to Build and Break Habits That Cause You to Overspend

Summary

Frugal Friends Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: How to Build and Break Habits That Cause You to Overspend
Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Release Date: February 21, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Frugal Friends Podcast, hosts Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni revisit one of their most popular episodes focused on understanding and managing spending habits. They explore the foundational aspects of why we overspend, the deep-rooted habits that drive this behavior, and effective strategies to build better financial habits.

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Understanding Overspending Habits

1. Relying on Willpower Alone

Jen and Jill discuss how many people mistakenly believe that sheer willpower is sufficient to control spending. They reference behavioral research by Marielle Beasley of Common Sense Labs, highlighting that "motivation ebbs and flows" and relying solely on it can lead to inconsiderate overspending over time.

Notable Quote:
Jill (09:36): "If you're just relying on sheer willpower to prevent you from making purchases, it's going to wear down over time and won't always be effective."

2. Immediate Satisfaction vs. Long-Term Benefit

Focusing on immediate gratification often undermines long-term financial goals. Jen emphasizes the natural inclination of the brain to seek instant rewards, which can lead to impulsive spending despite having bigger financial objectives.

Notable Quote:
Jen (09:36): "Most of our decisions have to be for long-term benefit. So we're not looking for perfection, we're just looking to do 80%."

3. Following the Crowd

Social influences, especially from social media, can heavily impact spending behavior. Jill highlights how keeping up with peers or influencers can lead to unnecessary expenditures driven by a desire to belong or appear successful.

Notable Quote:
Jill (14:08): "We will find ourselves buying the things we don't even love that much because it's what's happening with those around us."

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Strategies to Break Bad Spending Habits

1. Replace, Don’t Eliminate

Instead of trying to eliminate bad habits entirely, Jen and Jill suggest replacing them with more constructive behaviors. This approach ensures that the void left by the bad habit is filled with something beneficial, making the transition smoother.

Notable Quote:
Jill (27:08): "We don't eliminate bad habits without replacing them with something else. What will you do instead needs to be an integral part of this equation."

2. James Clear’s Habit Loop

The hosts delve into James Clear's methodology for breaking bad habits by focusing on the cue, craving, and reward cycle. They emphasize making cues less obvious, making the habit unattractive and difficult, and substituting bad habits with positive ones.

Notable Quote:
Jen (28:45): "If you are surrounding yourself with people who lift you up, it's going to be unattractive to overspend on things you don't truly value."

3. Mindset Shifts

Jen and Jill discuss the importance of altering one’s mindset to support habit change. This includes visualizing success, shedding negative self-talk, and planning for occasional failures without self-sabotage.

Notable Quote:
Jen (37:25): "I'm not a failure. I failed at this one thing. Failing and failing better is part of success."

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Personal Stories and Examples

Jen’s Experience with Breakfast Habits

Jen shares her journey of replacing her morning waffle habit, initially a coping mechanism during sleepless nights with her newborn, with healthier alternatives like eggs and breakfast burritos. She highlights the importance of meal planning to sustain her new habit without excessive effort.

Notable Quote:
Jen (52:51): "I need to redirect this. So I have replaced it with eggs because I have an endless amount of money at my disposal."

Jill’s Approach to Limiting Alcohol Consumption

Jill opens up about her efforts to moderate alcohol intake by limiting the variety and quantity of liquor at home. She emphasizes finding enjoyable non-alcoholic alternatives and integrating these changes with her financial goals.

Notable Quote:
Jill (62:20): "I've been trying to limit how much I'm consuming, keeping track of what that is..."

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Bill of the Week

In a heartwarming segment, Jen recounts a recent experience at a grocery store where a cashier compassionately discounted a carton of eggs with a cracked egg, demonstrating how small acts of kindness can positively impact one's day and financial decisions.

Notable Quote:
Jen (44:42): "The cashier... gave them to you for $1.49. It was just a really nice day."

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Lightning Round: Hosts’ Personal Habit Changes

Jen’s Habit Replacement: Jen transitioned from eating frozen waffles every morning to preparing egg cups and breakfast burritos. She emphasizes the simplicity and health benefits of her new routine.

Jill’s Habit Replacement: Jill adopts a strategy to limit alcohol consumption by only keeping one type of liquor at home and substituting alcoholic beverages with sparkling water, enhancing both her health and financial well-being.

Notable Quote:
Jen (63:29): "I am definitely eating healthier than I was when we originally recorded the episode."

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Conclusion and Next Steps

Jen and Jill wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to introspectively track their spending habits, identify triggers, and consciously replace detrimental habits with positive ones. They stress that habit change is a gradual process requiring patience, self-kindness, and community support.

Notable Quote:
Jill (65:23): "It's not deprivation. I've been really digging some sparkling water."

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Further Resources

The hosts promote their book, Buy What You Love Without Going Broke, as a comprehensive guide to managing personal finances and spending habits tailored to various life stages and financial situations. They encourage listeners to leave reviews and engage with their content to help shape future episodes.

Notable Quote:
Jill (68:16): "Buy What You Love Without Going Broke is the ultimate guide to help you figure out a system for your spending and finances that work for you."

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Takeaways

• Awareness is Key: Recognizing the underlying causes of overspending is the first step towards mitigating it.
• Community Support: Engaging with like-minded individuals can bolster efforts to build better financial habits.
• Mindset Matters: Shifting how you think about spending and self-perception can lead to sustainable financial health.
• Practical Replacement: Instead of removing bad habits, replace them with healthier alternatives to ensure continuity and reduce temptation.

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By delving deep into the psychology of spending habits and providing actionable strategies, Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni offer valuable insights for anyone striving to take control of their finances and live a more frugal, fulfilling life.

Transcript

[Jen]

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[Jen]

Hi friend, it's your inner child calling and they want churros, a new toy and a new adventure. Or maybe five with the bestest besties on earth. Find your moment at Walt Disney World Resort. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] Credit Card Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report, episode 487 is episode 315, how to Build and break habits that cause you to overspend. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity and live a richer life.

[Jill]

Here are your hosts, J, Jen and Jill.

[Jen]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast. My name is Jen.

[Jill]

My name is Jill.

[Jen]

And today we are replaying one of our most downloaded episodes from a few years ago about habits and specific specifically spending habits.

[Jill]

Turns out we've been talking about this type of thing for a long time. There's a part of me that's thought we've kind of begun to talk about impulse spending and habit building for our book. It's like, nah, it's just that we've been talking about this forever and we finally thought, let's put it into a book. So if you want our take from kind of the inception when we were first beginning to talk about habits, that's what we're looking back to. But still really good, relevant stuff.

[Jen]

Yes. But first, this episode is brought to you by two more days. That's how many days you have left to complete the 2025 Frugal Friends Mega Survey and make your wishes known. Let us know the type of content you want more of help shape the future of Frugal Friends and answer for 10. Sorry, 10 multiple choice questions. Actually, I think it's nine multiple choice and one short answer. I think we have been lying to people this entire time. But the short answer is optional. And that's just if you have an episode suggestion. So head to frugalfriendspodcast.com megasurvey or open up any friend letter from the past two weeks. You have until Sunday evening to fill out the survey, make your wishes known and maybe we will do one of your episode suggestions.

[Jill]

It really helps us in planning out content. We wanna know what matters to you and this is the only way to know.

[Jen]

So a couple good episodes to queue up for after this one that came up after this episode was originally recorded are episode 462 Willpower and Self control. In spending, there's this illusion that spending is self discipline and self control and higher willpower. But we don't necessarily believe that. We believe that there's other ways you can work with your body instead of against it, against your brain. And then episode 459, five ways your childhood impacts how you spend money. So this can be the root of where a lot of our habits are. So those are two good ones to queue up. But let's not waste any time.

[Jill]

Let's get into it. Let's get into this. We've got some really great articles for you. The first one comes from CNBC and it's titled three habits that actually cause you to spend more money, according to a behavioral researcher. So they are citing a lot of the findings of Marielle Beasley, who's the co founder of Common Sense Labs, where she's talking about these habits. And then it's kind of an overview of that behavioral research that was done and just begins by talking about how often we can have the best of intentions but still make mistakes along the way because we're human. And I know for myself that is still true, even even though I have a personal finance podcast for five years alongside Jen, who I've learned so much from, I still am not hitting every goal and crushing my savings and spendings and investing and all of that. And. And we can all have the best of intentions. I love the example that they give at the beginning of we can think and plan. When we're going out to dinner, we're just going to have one glass of wine, but then, you know, we're with really good friends, you end up having three. Or I am going to challenge myself to SA 50 bucks a month, but then by the end of the month only find $25 in savings. So I think that this in a really succinct way gives some of the reasonings to why that happens. And the more we can understand that reality, the more we can respond well and see shifts. So while I'm not perfect, I know, Jen, you would say you're not perfect. There can be improvement along the way, however, within this. Any overarching thoughts from you, Jen, on this one?

[Jen]

Yeah, so I once again we're going to say the three habits. But I think traditionally when we think of quote unquote, bad spending habits, we think of that ordering the two extra drinks at dinner, we think of the Starbucks drive through on the way to work, ordering takeout for lunch. So those are not the real habits that we're focusing on today. And so I just thought this was a very cool like there are deeper issues, deeper habits that cause those more superficial ones. And so I love that this article goes into those and then the next article will go into more specifically how to break them.

[Jill]

Yeah. So the first habit, habit number one is that we can often tend to rely on our willpower to restrict our spending. We can think that that's enough. If I just grit my teeth and white knuckle this thing, that's going to be what helps me restrict my spending. And the researcher explains that motivation, like anything else, and you've heard us describe this, it ebbs and flows. Motivation can't be the thing that we're Waiting on to just happen, to just befall us and then the rest of life follows suit. So if you're just relying on shift, sheer willpower to prevent you from making purchases, it's going to wear down over time and won't always be effective. They also reference how budgeting can be one of those things like, well, we try and restrict our spending through budgeting and then thinking it's our willpower that's going to help us keep in that place. Now I love budgets, but I do think that this is highlighting an important thing about the way that we approach budgets. So creating a budget can help us know where our money goes, how to allocate it. But a lot of times if we're trying to use that as the motivator for our willpower in this effort to curb spending, it can lead to this cycle of overcompensation where maybe it works for a little bit of time. Oh yeah, I just saved all that much. But now we feel deprived and then we overspend and the gains are hardly anything because we've then overcompensated for them. So this just sheer relying on willpower doesn't work.

[Jen]

Yeah, it's like. So when we talk about decision fatigue, it's the. For, you know, for those of you who don't know, decision fatigue is by the end of the day, like in the morning, your decisions are great because your mind is fresh, but by the end of the day you are, you know, eating ice cream, impulse shopping on Amazon because your, your willpower literally has been depleted from your body. Your brain only has so much capacity to make decisions. And so instead of working against that, which is the real mistake, we need to be working with our minds. So we need to be looking for those ways to kind of internally motivate ourselves to keep going. So part of that is, you know, quote, unquote, find your why. But there are other smaller things that we need to be doing to really move on our own volition and not rely on willpower. Yeah, Habit number two is focusing more on immediate satisfaction versus long term benefit. So like what I was just saying, when your willpower is depleted, then it makes it even harder to focus on the long term benefit versus the immediate satisfaction. And I would say it's not a bad thing to focus on immediate satisfaction. Our brains are kind of wired to do that, but not doing it every single decision. So most of our decisions have to be for long term benefit. So I would say it's probably like an 80, 20. If 80% of your decisions are sound and provide long term benefit than 20%. You could just like go off and impulse spend all of it at Target, you know, so we're not looking for perfection, we're just looking to do 80%, right? So that we can have the freedom to not think about it, not be so guilty with that other 20% or whatever ratio feels good to you.

[Jill]

And that's a little bit just default mode. I feel as though immediate satisfaction is innate. And it does take work to be able to identify long term benefit and create ways for us to see some degree of short term benefit while we're working towards long term benefit. But that's so often what habits are. They're these things that have worked to some degree or have created shortcuts and efficiencies, but many of them aren't actually working in our favor. And so a lot of this is just becoming aware of, of those habits that aren't benefiting us. And how can we shift that again? We'll get to that in the second article. But yeah, it's natural that we would want to focus on immediate satisfaction, but that in the long run is going to lead to that overspending. So that's another reason that we can find ourselves like in that rut. Why I had the best of intentions. Why did it end up this way? And these are some of the top three reasons. And the final one, habit number three is just simply following the crowd, keeping up with the Joneses or whoever it is that you follow on Instagram. This can highly and heavily influence how much money we spend and what we spend it on. We often will take cues from those around us on what we should be doing, how to belong. Again, this is one of those just innately programmed things of humanity. We want belonging, we want immediate satisfaction, we want efficiency. We want to believe that we've got the grit and willpower to just say no to whatever, whatever. But the reality is there's a lot, lot more forces at play here. And especially if we are not actively aware or intentional about that. We can find ourselves buying the things, doing the things, having the experiences that maybe we don't even love that much. It's just what's happening with those around us and it's influencing the decisions that we're making. They reference research. Now granted, I did not click on this to see if it met Jen's standards of research, but apparently the Federal Reserve bank of America. I'm sorry, the Federal Reserve Bank, Philadelphia. I'm from Philadelphia. Yeah, the best of America comes from Philadelphia.

[Jen]

I'm going check this now.

[Jill]

Okay. The Federal Reserve bank of Philadelphia found that if your neighbor wins the lottery, you're more likely to file for bankruptcy. This sounds like a ludicrous fact. I mean, first of all, how many people have they been able to actually study who won the lottery and then look at the behaviors of those lottery winners neighbors? I can't imagine it was more than 5. Feel free to report back, Jen. But still, the, the point that they're trying to make here is we are heavily influenced by those around me, around us, whether that is our neighbors, the place, just our immediate community, our friends, our co workers, the people that we're choosing to follow on Instagram social media. We will be influenced by their spending habits. And if we are not intentional about choosing something differently, that's just how it's going to shake out in our spending behaviors.

[Jen]

Yeah. I want to note that, to quote this study, to examine this question, we rely on matched data on the universe of lottery winners and the universe of bankruptcy filers in a single Canadian province. What?

[Jill]

And it's the Federal bank of Philadelphia doing this research on.

[Jen]

Thank you for your rigorous Canada citing standard cnbc.

[Jill]

No, they just wanted it because it sounded so crazy.

[Jen]

Right. But so to bring it back around, these three habits are really important to look at. That's why it's important that we look in habits because we only have a finite amount of willpower at the end of the day. So we want to put our actions on autopilot. That's what habits are. We focus more on immediate satisfaction. It's the way our brains are wired. So we want to have good habits and we want to just be intentional about our habits so that we're not falling into unintentional, like limiting ones. I don't want to say bad versus good habits because one person's bad habit could be another person's good habit. But limiting and growth habits and yeah, we follow the crowd. So we want to have 80% of our habits being our actions being good habits. So in those times where you do follow the, you know what the Federal Reserve bank of Philadelphia is saying you might do, you're mostly taken care of. So I do. I. When you were saying this one, the habit number three, I was remembering, I follow this guy at. I think it's Shabazz or Shabazz says or just Shabazz. Yes, yes.

[Jill]

Look at the rich people in the post.

[Jen]

All the rich people, I don't even know if they're rich, but they just carefully and luxuriously curate all of this designer stuff and like apparently there's a part of TikTok where like fancy ice, like filling your freezer with like fancy ice is a thing and it's just all so pointless. But if that's all you're seeing and he and he'll make just really funny commentary, like poking fun at it, not the person, but just like how ridiculous practices are. Like, if that's all you're seeing, you can think that's normal and you can follow the crowd with your fancy ice. But you really have to ask yourself why, you know, is this what I value or is this just something like I'm seeing and my brain is just automatically going to I should do this. So that's when my habits are broken.

[Jill]

I do love following him Sources thanks for checking checking that source, Chad, because that was a wild fact that turns out to not be maybe all that factual. And this is why we scour the Internet on your behalf to save you from this insane research.

[Jen]

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[Jen]

So I actually, I love this next article, and I can't believe we haven't covered it before. I actually looked at Episode the Show notes for 181. I was like, we should have. I've read this article a million times. Not a million, but a lot. I was like, we have to have used it in 181. No, we didn't. So the next article is James Clear's how to Break a Bad Habit and Replace it with a Good One. It is one of my favorite articles on the Internet, but in 181 we used a James Clear article on how to build good habits. So this one, we're focused on breaking habits and then to build habits, follow up with 181. I know that's in the title, but the point of it is to get you to listen to 181 after this one. That's the biggest switch.

[Jill]

James Clear is just a good resource too, in learning more about habits. So it's why we reference this work so often. And, you know, there's not necessarily, oh, 10 tips, five steps, blah, blah, blah, just kind of taking us through what causes bad habits. What can we do about it? What are some techniques that work? So we're just gonna work our way through that. Yeah. Feel free to start, Jen, with what causes bad habits.

[Jen]

All right. So what causes bad habits? Most of your bad habits, according to Clear, are caused by two things, stress and boredom. And I would say boredom in the sense that you're just not being intentional. It is always easier. Our mind always takes the road with fewer obstacles. And so I would say maybe you're not bored, but your mind might be. So I would maybe even add a third is just like, just like situational, like seasonal, kind of where you're at, not being intentional about where you want to go. A lot of bad habits, especially spending habits, can be caused from that, but also stress and definitely also boredom. I know sometimes, especially with a newborn, if I just want to get out of the house, like I'm going to Target because it's too hot outside by.

[Jill]

3Pm it's like water. Our brains will take the path of least resistance. And I will caveat this by saying all of the other principles that we've talked about throughout this podcast still remain. We still have to recognize the season that we're in our current capacities. What does kindness to ourselves and, wellbeing, look like right now. And we can't tackle everything all at once. And so really measuring whether you're in a season of maybe just maintenance or in a season of growth or whatever it is, I think, you know, Jen, I hear you say, oh man, there's these things that I'm doing. Yeah, but you have a brand new baby and a four year old and you're getting back into the pace of work life, that going to Target might not be something that you want to be doing to cope in a year from now. But is it okay for now? Like there is still this spectrum of what is and isn't beneficial for us. And going to Target is still far better than going to the bar.

[Jen]

So it's far better than taking my.

[Jill]

Newborn to the bar.

[Jen]

Right, for sure.

[Jill]

And that would be a coping mechanism too. So I think also learning where you are along the way and being kind to yourself in this and recognizing that, okay, you, you bite your nails, you go on shopping sprees, you overspend or you, like, you might not be able to shift all of that all at once, pick your thing, decide what is okay, maybe for a season, check back in with yourself. It's all a part of this equation.

[Jen]

Yeah, but he says at the the end of this, recognizing the causes of your bad habits is crucial to overcoming them. And so I think that just reiterates, you have to recognize the season that you're in and know, is this a season where I can change my bad habits or my limiting habits? Or is this a season where I can, you know, focus on this limiting habit, but not this one for this reason? So that is definitely number one.

[Jill]

Awesome. Then the article goes on to explain how we don't eliminate bad habits, we replace them. So there snaps, there's no pause there. Okay, picking back up. So there is no reality where we can just cut out of our lives something that is ill informed, misplaced, misdirected, non beneficial without replacing it with something else, without identifying, well, what will I do instead? If you're accustomed to going to Target every single Saturday as a way to just get out of the house and you end up spending money, you can't just stop that cold turkey. And that goes back to that first article of relying on willpower. Well, it just doesn't work. There would need to be something else coming in to replace that. What will you do instead needs to be a really crucial, integral part of this equation. Just even just that recognition that I'm not just going to get rid of this habit. I'M going to have to identify how to redirect it.

[Jen]

Yes, absolutely. It's like when you dig something out of a dirt road and you're driving over it, you want to replace that thing that was in the road. You gotta fill it back up with dirt in order to drive over the road. Considering if it's a big thing that you dug out of the road.

[Jill]

So how big is the shovel?

[Jen]

I mean, how big is the thing you were, I wanna say, like it was a dead animal or something. But you gotta fill it back up in order to drive over it. You don't just take it out and then, you know, drive over it. You'll get stuck. So that's kind of the idea, is that you don't take something away without replacing it, because your brain just works easier. It works more easily when you replace. So then we go into, how do we replace? How do we break the bad habit? So I like James Clear's habit loop. It's a smidge different than the traditional habit loop of three phases. So he basically takes that habit loop. And for every reason that you would perform a habit, he just, like, takes the opposite. You just do the opposite. So, like, the first part is. Well, first you have to choose the substitute for your bad habit. But the first part of the habit loop is the cue. So you just make the cue, like, obvious, or you make the cue. That's how you build one. You make the queue kind of as. Disguise it as much as possible or ignore it as much as possible. So, like, if your habit is picking up Starbucks on the way to work, in the drive through, you go a different way to work, or you get in the lane farthest from the Starbucks. So you make it as hard to do the habit as possible. Cut out as many triggers as possible. And so that's the first step to breaking your bad habit.

[Jill]

Yeah. Which is twofold. It's that first choosing what the substitute is going to be, then cutting out as many triggers, the thing that's gonna come just before. Like, if you always eat cookies when you're home and you're watching tv, then it might be something that don't watch TV at night. Like, there might be cutting out these different triggers that always lead to the next thing of the habit. Of course, as it relates to finances and spending, there's different things to talk about there. Of if I always go to Starbucks on my way to work, then maybe I need a different path. I need to take a different way to work so that I'm not passing that Starbucks and eventually that will turn the external motivators into internal motivators. But initially our brains do need these things to just be removed. We can help ourselves out by eliminating some of those unnecessary temptations. The next thing that they recommend is to join forces with somebody. We love this because we think we go further together. And having community is a massive part of experiencing well being and quote unquote success in feeling empowered in your personal finances and achieving goals. If we bring someone else along, whether you are aimed at the same exact goal or similar goals, or you both are just trying to achieve something somebody else to be able to talk about that with, share what your goal is, share what works for you, what's not working, be able to have someone to celebrate together with when those little victories and big victories happen. Having someone else is a really powerful motivator. Not that motivation is the thing to be the driving force, but accountability. Community in this process is going to really help us stick to it.

[Jen]

And I think that can go into the that kind of. So there are the three laws of inversion of the habit loop to break that bad habit. The first one is to make the cues invisible. The second and third are to like make the habit unattractive and difficult. And that can. That's where community really comes in. It's really important. And this is maybe one of the most difficult things that your community supports. The direction you are going, whether that is family, friends, the people you surround yourself in, your career, at your job, whatever, those are the people that are either going to make it easy to continue with limiting habits or make it difficult or unattractive to follow through with those habits. If you are surrounding yourself with people who lift you up and encourage you to reframe your mindset to be better, then it's going to be unattractive to be overspending on things that you don't truly value. And if you are spending time with people who like to do free things as much as you, it's going to make it difficult to overspend in the areas you don't want to spend on. So that's why we are so invested in having people around you who live the way you want to live.

[Jill]

Yeah. And the next portion of this article in talking about how to reform, redirect our habits has to do with mindset. I'll just, just list off the three that come next. And it's related to visualizing yourself succeeding, not needing to become someone else, but return to the old you. And some of the things that we can do to interrupt Negative self talk. And so I think each one could be implemented depending on your own personality and what makes sense to you. If you are someone who enjoys visualizing things and imagining yourself at the the place that you want to be, then that might be a really helpful mindset for you in really daydreaming and envisioning this new life can help. It's not going to be the only thing. It's not some magic pill, but it does help us to imagine and keep that goal in focus. The next tip related to the not needing to be someone else, just return to the old you. That's a mindset shift of recognizing that you don't need to become a new person. Chances are that the habits you're trying to break is in some form a return to maybe who you used to be. Like they use the example of smoking. Chances are you weren't born smoking. So it's not that you need to quit smoking. It's more this mindset of you need to return to being a non smoker. You probably have not spent money your whole life. So it's not like I need to just not be this type of person, but rather go back to the more simple ways of life. This I think breaks down at some point, but I think that that mindset can be helpful in. I think what it's primarily getting at is the narrative and the story we tell ourselves about who we are. And that can be a big barrier in us achieving and experiencing change is well, this is who I am. I'm an overspender, I'm a smoker, I'm a couch potato, like whatever words you would want to put on it. And we take that on as an identity. And I think that this exerc is mostly pointing at how do we shed those negative self talks that aren't beneficial to us. Mostly even aren't true that these aren't identifying identity pieces. So there's that one. And then using the word but overcome self talk. And I like the examples that they give. You know, maybe moving from if you feel like you're a person who's a failure, you might have this narrative in your head going I'm a failure, I'm a failure. And maybe it's shifting it to I'm a failure, but everybody fails sometimes. Or if you feel like no one respects me, I'm not a respectable person, no one respects me, but I'm working to develop a valuable skill. So it's really shifting where we typically go, what we say about ourselves to the action that we're trying to put towards change. And again, that's mindset. That's taking our thoughts, being aware of them, how they are, moving our behaviors and shifting that because it all begins in our mind. And when we can shift the way that we think, then we can shift the way that we behave.

[Jen]

Yeah. And these mindsets are, you know, the I'm stupid, I'm a failure. Those are not the mindsets you want to stick with. The but is simply just something to add at the end instead of a period. Eventually you want to be able to say, I'm not a failure, I failed at this one thing. But failing and failing better is part of success. Yes.

[Jill]

Yeah. Adding the butts is just the first step. Good point, Jen. You don't want to stay there.

[Jen]

Right. And the more you dive into creating a growth mindset and developing good habits and breaking limiting ones, the more you develop this language. It's, it's language that you have to learn and it's difficult to learn after years of saying like I'm bad with money, I need to spend money to feel better. All of these narratives that we talk to ourselves about money, it's hard to break those narratives. You have to learn language to replace the narratives you're telling yourself. And that kind of leads. The last one is to plan for failure. And this is so important because we all slip up every now and then. That's what the article says. And it's not even I. We see failure as like this. It's a big negative thing, but failing at something or just not. Most of the times it's just not succeeding in the way that you thought you would succeed. It's not failure. So I think the idea is that if you plan for failure, it's not in a self sabotaging way where you try something but you don't give it your hundred percent because you just assume you'll fail. So we're not talking about that, but we're talking about know that you're going to make mistakes, know that you're not going to be perfect, know that you're not going to succeed in the way that you think you should succeed in order to define success. So when you're building a habit, there's a lie out there that says it's going to take you 21 days to build a habit. And the reality is it takes at least 66, somewhere closer to 120. So whatever you're working on, whatever habit you're working on, you'll be working on it for three to six months. At least. And you're not going to be perfect, especially in the first couple weeks. And that's when most people will give up, when they're trying to break a limiting habit. It so plan to not be perfect, Plan to not succeed in the way you think you should.

[Jill]

Yes, so true. I also love the way that this article wraps up in this where to go from here section, and I appreciate the way that they highlight that. It's very easy for us to get caught up in how we feel about our bad habits. Or we might label them our bad habits and we can feel guilty or we will spend our time dreaming up how we wish things were. But our feelings are not necessarily what's going to actually be the factor that moves us to action. It's more so an awareness of what's happening, gathering up information that's going to actually make the change. So great intro into kind of next steps to take. So I would encourage anyone to check out this article, but they list out questions that you can be asking yourself, like when does your bad habit actually happen? How many times a day are you engaging in this habit? Where are you? Who are you with? What triggers the behavior and causes it to start? And so even just simply tracking. Very similar to how we approach our personal finances from the start of just tracking, where's my money going? How's it being spent? Who am I with? What happened just before it? All of these things are so interconnected and if we can remove some of those feelings, emotional baggage around it and just be curious about ourselves, our own researchers, if you will, gathering this information, it's that information that's going to fuel and inform the now next steps. After you've tracked all of these things and you can look back on that with that curious eye and think, okay, then what can I do? What triggers this? How can I eliminate those triggers? What's the cue Craving reward? What can I be doing instead just before this habit might be triggered? How can I replace it? What would be something that's effective? Where is this beginning? What does this tell me about myself? What is it that I'm trying to avoid? Are there other coping mechanisms that I'm going to feel better about? And all of these things, all of these questions will move us towards growth where we're not going to fall into those first three habits that we talked about in that first article. We are more equipped once we go through this process to combat some of those other ways that we might tend to pull in that direction, but we can be more intentional as a result of asking ourselves this and paying attention and replacing, not just eliminating.

[Jen]

Yes, you know what? We will never replace or eliminate. And that I have missed so much.

[Jill]

The bill of the week.

[Jen]

That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week. Hey, Den and Jill, I have a very small but sweet bill of the.

[Jill]

Week for you regarding eggs. I, like many Americans, have not been.

[Jen]

Able to find eggs that cost less than, I don't know, eight to ten dollars a dozen. So I was shopping at my local.

[Jill]

Big box store and I wasn't completely.

[Jen]

Floored that there were no eggs left.

[Jill]

That weren't the very, very high, natural, whatever variety. And I just wanted. I just wanted eggs. Some large eggs.

[Jen]

I saw one carton left of eggs kind of lurking in the back behind the price tag.

[Jill]

$1.99. Open them up.

[Jen]

One of the eggs was cracked. And I thought, you know what? For $1.99, I'm just going to get 11 eggs. So I get to the front, start to check out, and I tell the.

[Jill]

Cashier, like, oh, you know, he's very sweet. And I say, oh, this was the only one left. I can't believe I'm buying eggs that.

[Jen]

You know, have cracked egg in them. And he just kind of laughed. And when he ran across the scanner, I saw they rang at 4.

[Jill]

49. So I said, oh, no, this must.

[Jen]

Have also been in the wrong place. But, you know, I'm still desperate for.

[Jill]

Eggs, so I'll still buy them. And he just laughed very kindly and.

[Jen]

Said, you know what? I'll give them to you for that. I'm going to take off more, too.

[Jill]

He changed the price of those eggs to 1.49. And it was just.

[Jen]

It was just a really nice day. And I just went through those eggs.

[Jill]

Very slowly because I was just so.

[Jen]

Grateful to have a dozen eggs.

[Jill]

And yes, I even used the crack one for $1.49.

[Jen]

All right, thanks, Jen and Jill.

[Jill]

Have a great day.

[Jen]

Oh, my gosh. Katie, your eggs for $1.49. A, what a relatable and sad experience. B, congratulations. Your kindness got you a discount, and that is fantastic. Kindness always wins.

[Jill]

Sometimes it doesn't, but I love it when she does.

[Jen]

Wow. In this community, kindness always wins even.

[Jill]

That's so true.

[Jen]

It's not Monet.

[Jill]

Oh, that's so true, Jen. You know what? I don't think I've ever heard a story of an egg negotiation, but I love this. I don't even know if you intended to be negotiating, Katie, but that's the way that I'm interpreting this story is that you took your carton of eggs and you negotiated it down to a dollar 49. You negotiated with kindness. And what an amazing bill. And how interesting that something like that can really just shift the course of a day. I'm that you had a great experience with this cashier, that you even used the cracked egg. I hope you didn't get sick, but well done.

[Jen]

Yes, well done.

[Jill]

We love hearing about deals.

[Jen]

Yes. And it is. I mean, eggs, man, they have had their 15 minutes this year for sure.

[Jill]

All the people who have been raising chickens are like, say, this is why.

[Jen]

Yep, your thousand dollar investment has saved you money in the long run. But I have been using. So I'll make a baked oatmeal like almost every weekend. And it calls for two eggs. And this year I have been going down to one egg and one flax egg. It works.

[Jill]

Flax egg.

[Jen]

A flax egg. And I could do two flax eggs. I just kind of like to split the difference. But it's a tablespoon of ground flaxseed, 2 tablespoons of water. You mix it up and let it sit for a few minutes and it gets a kind of a gelatinous consistency and it works just like an egg in baked goods.

[Jill]

So you've got some great tips, Jen. You should start a podcast.

[Jen]

Oh, thank you.

[Jill]

Once you're done having babies.

[Jen]

Thank you.

[Jill]

Maybe I will sometimes I will replace eggs with applesauce.

[Jen]

Yes, another good vegan.

[Jill]

I don't know if applesauce is any.

[Jen]

Cheaper than eggs, but vegans are having their moment for sure because they're like, no, no $8 eggs for us. No, we've been, we've been living this life that is well done and that's what we got out of this bill of the week. And well done.

[Jill]

If you all listening want to submit your bill. If you're a vegan having your 15 minutes or you're a CH or having your 15 minutes or you are just out there slaying like Katie negotiating your eggs at the checkout counter, we want to hear about it. Or just any other podcast or any other bill related to anything related to bills, we keep it loosey goosey. Visit frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill, leave us your bill. We are here for it.

[Jen]

Running a business. It's a lot, right? Orders to place, expenses to track, procurements to manage. It feels like there are never enough hours in the day. We could all use more time. That's where Amazon Business comes in. They offer smart buying solutions to help you make the most of yours. Like Spend Visibility, a cloud based system to track your buying pattern so you can optimize your savings and bulk buying so you can continue to save costs on select products with quantity discounts. Now that's smart. Amazon Business handles the heavy lifting so you can finally focus on growing your business instead of drowning in admin. From customized recommendations to real time spend tracking and delivery options tailored to your schedule, they've got your back every step of the way. Why not spend less time sweating the small stuff and more time crushing your goals or maybe even sneaking in some well earned downtime? Discover more about smart business [e-mail] a.

[Jill]

Business prime membership is required to access Spend Visibility.

[Jen]

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[Jill]

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[Jen]

15 bucks a month plus all plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] frugal that's mintmobile.com frugal upfront.

[Jill]

Payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month month new customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Jen]

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[Jill]

Its way to the irs.

[Jen]

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[Jill]

And now it's time for. Welcome back, Chad.

[Jen]

I hope you've been saving those intense sound effects for me.

[Jill]

You've been missing. Missing my aggression.

[Jen]

Yes. I am excited for this lightning round because I had an immediate answer and I've heard Jill's answer was also immediate, but has changed. But we'll see. Do you want me to go first or you. You need time to think of me one?

[Jill]

Yeah, please go first.

[Jen]

All right, so the question is, what's a recent habit you had to replace and how did you do it? So for the first six weeks of my new son's life, I ate frozen waffles every morning for six weeks.

[Jill]

Love that. Now, hold on. Can I pause you in your story? Can I interject? Was there any shame in that? Was that an active choice that you felt good about?

[Jen]

It was not a choice that I made intentionally at first. Before I went to the hospital, I filled up my freezer with food and just easy food and waffles were the first thing to go. It was my treat for making it through the night. I got through the night because I knew waffles were in the morning. It was was that was a real thing. I literally was up several times a night. But I'm like in the morning I'm making waffles in the toaster oven.

[Jill]

Yes. Like Donkey from Shrek.

[Jen]

Yes. So that really got me through the first few weeks and then just became a habit. It just became a habit every morning for six weeks. And at that time I'm like, they, this is not a treat anymore. I need to redirect this. So I have replaced it with eggs because I have an endless amount of money at my disposal. And so I have been eating egg cups and breakfast burritos. So like, you know, turkey bacon and eggs inside of tortilla. That is literally my breakfast burrito. Two slices of turkey bacon, an egg and a low carb tortilla. That's my breakfast burrito. It's not fancy, but I love it. Or like an egg cup. Each, like muffin tin has one egg and a, like an apple or not an apple. A chicken sausage. A morning chicken sausage. So that is what I have replaced. My waffles were.

[Jill]

But that's work. And you might not have been able to do that. I was not in the previous six weeks.

[Jen]

Right. And I'll meal plan them. So, like on Sunday, I'll go through a dozen eggs between making my egg cups and my breakfast burrito, and I'll just bake both. So, like, I'll do six eggs, whip them up and put them in the egg cups with the chicken sausages. And then the other six I'll put into a glass baking dish and I'll put all those in the oven, bake them, and then they're there for the week. So it's not that much work because I still. My son's, you know, like just nine weeks old. So is he's still very tiny? No, I mean, he's huge. He's a Chong. But he's, you know, compared to regular sized humans, tiny. And he still wakes up compared to.

[Jill]

Other babies his size, he's weight in the pack. But yes.

[Jen]

Oh, my God, he's so cool.

[Jill]

Well, and how interesting. I think what you're saying is bringing up such a good point. I think sometimes we can identify this has now become a bad behavior. What a behavior we want to replace. Where it was a habit that was intentional to begin with. So it was almost as if, you know, when we talk about cue craving reward. And one of the ways to replace a habit is to give yourself some sort of reward. And what's that gonna be? And it sounds like that was the response to a previous larger issue of sleepless nights. And how will I get through this sleepless night with a good attitude, doing the things that I need to be doing. Your reward, which made sense at the time, were waffles. And now that's kind of turned into this coping mechanism, habit, whatever you want to call it, that now you want to replace. And I think that will probably. That cycle will probably keep happening throughout.

[Jen]

And I replaced it with something just as delicious and I mean almost just as Easy to make because in the mornings I literally just pop them into the microwave and they're good and they're very quick to prep. I'll prep them when I make dinner on Sunday night. That's when I throw the eggs in the oven. So I've been doing that for a few weeks and it's been great and it has been like an even replacement I just made. So I was saying how I made like an oatmeal bake every weekend until I gave birth. And I've in this two months, I've just made my first one again this past weekend. So that was something I really enjoyed. That has been too much work up until this point and I probably still am not gonna make em every weekend. Just this weekend was a, you know, a good. I found myself. I have 30 minutes of time to do something.

[Jill]

I think it just highlights that it might be. For some it's a bad habit. For others it's a fine habit. For some seasons of life it's okay. And then other times we wanna shift it. So I think it really your story is highlighting just the permission there and to just focus on one thing at a time. Before it was sleep and survival. Now it's okay. How can I feed my body a little bit more healthy, sustainable foods?

[Jen]

And it's why I don't like using the term bad habit. Because long term eating waffles every morning is a bad habit. But for me it was not a bad habit. It was just a limiting habit. And it was for intentional, for a reason. And then when I decided that I didn't want that anymore, though I do still love waffles. I went through a lot of maple syrup. My checkbook could not handle the amount of maple syrup I went through. I had to switch classes.

[Jill]

Right, right, right, right, right. Same, same, same. Like mine is not a bad habit. You know, it serves me.

[Jen]

This makes me sound so like more pg. But like honestly I could have the same Jill and I could be telling the same story. So don't, don't get it twisted, okay?

[Jill]

Jen has encouraged me to not eliminate what I was the only thing I could think to offer to you fine folks listening to this podcast. And she's encouraging me towards vulnerability and, and here it is. I, I do like to be authentic and I'm, I'm not ashamed of that. This and I am a work in progress. Now I have been on a journey of what I feel is an okay amount of consumption of alcohol. I have no problems with alcohol. Like as far as the way that I view it or the way that I engage with it, but there are times that I can kind of ebb and flow with, oh, I. I would like to be abstinent from this thing for a time. And so I would say more recently it's been. I don't. Honestly, I think I've heard from so many people through the pandemic how alcohol consumption went up a little bit. Because what else are you gonna do when you're sitting at home and working from home and. Not that I drank while I was working. Still have some standards around that. Stay tuned, though. And I think just there were times where I went months without consuming alcohol, and then I was like, I enjoy it, though. It's a fun thing to do out with friends and we've got people visiting. So anyhow, all that to say more recently, I've just been trying to limit how much I'm consuming, keeping track of what that is. I never will have more than one or two drinks. Like, on any given day. I'm not. I hate the feeling of being drunk. I just enjoy a nicely crafted cocktail or a glass of wine. But even still, I don't want to do that every day. I want my body to be able to get nutrients. So anyhow, I've gone through seasons where a glass of wine or a cocktail almost marks the end of the day for me. And realizing that, okay, this might have become a habit, this kind of ritualized behavior. It's how I'm marking the movement of one of, you know, maybe work life into personal life kind of a thing. And so I have worked on replacing that with something, realizing I can't just not do this. I'm going for something in the fridge. And so I've replaced it with either tea or something I've really been enjoying. Honestly, I know this sounds so silly, but just like iced lemon water is so refreshing to me as we're getting into the summer months. So that has really worked. But also, I'm not abstinent from alcohol altogether. So there you have it. Like, I'm the. I'm trying to hold the radical middle, even in that even as I see all of these people moving towards abstinence on all things is the key to wellbeing. I think for me there's permission for that to be different while also identifying what's going to be best for me. And can I replace some of this with enjoyable bevies? Enjoyable non alcoholic bevies?

[Jen]

Yes. I mean, I too enjoy an alcoholic bevy, and I've been abstinent from them for nine months.

[Jill]

So yeah, being pregnant kind of forces your hand in that regard.

[Jen]

Yeah, it's the worst. So I could say the same thing. But no, mine was waffles. But to each their own.

[Jill]

We just love food and drink folks.

[Jen]

We do.

[Jill]

What more can we say?

[Jen]

And that's gonna be, I think a lot of people is one of. I mean probably you should probably work on one habit at a time. And probably the first habit, it is gonna be something food related. And so know that we are with you on that. Sometimes you replace cheap waffles for very expensive eggs, but sometimes you replace expensive alcohol with really inexpensive lemon water. So look at your habits, pick one and start to replace it. Know that you will not do it perfectly. Just like Jill.

[Jill]

I'm not doing it perfectly. But I will say though, as it relates to spending, because there is an intersection here, especially when it comes to food and alcohol. One of the shifts that Eric and I have made in the last few months is not buying alcohol out, which might not be everybody's story, but for us that's a big expense. Is alcohol out for us. We'd rather. And we used to do bartending events and that kind of thing so we can make really enjoyable cocktails. So. So we do that at home. The other choice that we made is to not have all the different types of liquor on hand and feel like we have to keep stocking our cabinet but choosing one. So right now we've chosen we're just gonna have gin on hand. And that has helped to cut down the budget. And when the gin's gone, that's it.

[Jen]

When the gin's gone.

[Jill]

Until the next, I don't know, month or whatever. I can't tell you exactly my timing on all of that, but. But making ways where it can be connected to some of these financial decisions and then creating some of those limiting factors, removing some of those triggers, putting some parameters in place that is also helping our finances too, which is great. Well, that was a fun one. And follow up on the lightning round.

[Jen]

Oh good.

[Jill]

Still limiting my alcohol consumption, which is great. I did do dry January. We're continuing it on into February. Eric's able to just use whatever alcohol we already have in the house. But we're also doing a February no spend challenge. So of course purchasing alcohol is not on the list. So we are just finding alternatives. It's not deprivation. I've been really digging some sparkling water.

[Jen]

Yeah, you have been in on that.

[Jill]

Uh huh. The Lacroix Limoncello is amazing. I'm on some Key lime right now.

[Jen]

Yeah. I have still broken my habit of eating waffles every morning for breakfast. I have moved on to overnight oats. I do overnight oats most days. And eggs and bacon. You know, I'll prep that on Sundays, do that a couple days a week.

[Jill]

But.

[Jen]

But yeah, I am definitely eating healthier than I was when we originally recorded the episode. And man, follow up to the bill of the week. Katie getting eggs for 1:49.

[Jill]

Yeah. Could you imagine? Remember those days?

[Jen]

Wow. It just brought me back to a sad space. It brought me forward into a sad space.

[Jill]

This wasn't even that long ago, but it has quadrupled. And you know what? That's why we still exist. So that we can keep telling you the best ways to spend even when the world is going crazy all around us. And eggs are $6 a dozen.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Jill]

Well, thank you everyone for being here for listening. We hope that you enjoyed this episode and and we also love reading your kind reviews about the book. That's right, we wrote a book, buy what yout Love without going Broke. It can be purchased wherever you buy books. And for those of you who are reading it and loving it, you're leaving such kind reviews like this one from Samantha St. Amand. It is five stars says this book is for you. Buy what you love without going Broke is the ultimate guide to help you figure out a system for your spending and finances that work works for you. The method that Jen and Jill lay out in this book is so versatile. It's a budget guide for those who love budgeting, it's a how to guide for managing spending. For those who hate budgeting, it's for folks making minimum wage and for folks making six figures. It's for high school students, their first job and retirees. It's for single households and parents with six children. Whatever your life or financial situation, this book will help you figure out how to buy what you love without going broke. This is really amazing and it could sound from this review that the book is all over the place and like doesn't know itself. But part of the reason is because we are sharing foundational principles about how to spend well and that they are very versatile and can be individualized to your life season. So rather than giving an exact how to or blueprint or exact math with money, we're giving these foundational concepts that if you can take them, really grasp hold of them and implement upon them, they can work for you at any stage of life.

[Jen]

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the show Please take a minute leave a rating and review on Spotify or Apple. If you have purchased the book or read it from the library, please take a minute to leave a review on Amazon or Goodreads. It helps us so much and it helps potential new listeners and readers know what our stuff is all about.

[Jill]

See you next time. Bye.

[Jen]

Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni so the book isn't just for high school students, it's also for high school students and I couldn't stop you.

[Jill]

You were on a roll. I was on a roll but you.

[Jen]

Really got in it.

[Jill]

I really emp behind going somewhere and.

[Jen]

Then you made a sh. You made a sharp stop and you went somewhere else.

[Jill]

Listen, I don't read the reviews before we are recording and so you don't necessarily know where to put the inflection.

[Jen]

It.

[Jill]

You know, no regrets, no take backs. It is for high school students like.

[Jen]

High achieving, high performing, that kind of high. For sure. Yes, definitely could be all kinds of high school students but also just regular high school students, you know, without any highness.

[Jill]

We do hope that you read the book. Yeah Stop hitting snooze on new Tech Upgrade the whole [e-mail] Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device. Win the tech search for business PCs at lenovo.com get in the zone AutoZone.

[Jen]

Welcome to the A to Z Savings Event at AutoZone. Thanks.

[Jill]

I need to change my oil so.

[Jen]

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[Jill]

Right now we have a special on.

[Jen]

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[Jill]

The oil filter is free with the Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic or High Mileage Motor oil. Yep, the free oil filter is part of the A to Z Savings event only at AutoZone.

[Jen]

Get in the zone AutoZone restrictions apply. Sail to breathtaking destinations in Alaska or yellow Europe with Disney Cruise Line. Discover where onboard magic meets onshore adventures, where beloved characters meet alluring landscapes, where Broadway quality shows meet historic cities, where imaginative dining meets amazing wildlife, and where exciting experiences await the whole family. Book an adventure filled summer Disney cruise to Alaska or Europe.

[Jill]

The Unshakables Podcast is kicking off season two with an episode you won't want to miss. Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase.

[Jen]

For Business as he welcomes a very.

[Jill]

Special guest, Chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh moments Jamie has overcome. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply.

[Jen]

J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC.

[Jill]

Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Company.