Insights on Credit Card Debt: What You Should Consider

Summary

Frugal Friends Podcast: Insights on Credit Card Debt – What You Should Consider

Episode Overview: In this episode of the Frugal Friends Podcast, hosts Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni delve deep into the intricacies of credit card debt. Addressing the prevalent concern among listeners—paying off debt—the duo offers comprehensive insights, backed by data and personal anecdotes, to help listeners understand and manage their credit card obligations more effectively.

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1. Introduction to Credit Card Debt

Jen and Jill kick off the episode by highlighting the significance of tackling credit card debt, emphasizing its prevalence and the urgent need for effective strategies to manage it.

Jen [03:15]: "When we gave you guys the mega survey that you filled out last month, the number one goal most of you had was paying off debt."

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2. The Scope of Credit Card Debt

The hosts present alarming statistics to underline the magnitude of credit card debt in recent years.

• Revolving Credit Debt: As of the end of 2023, revolving credit stood at over $1.3 trillion.

  Stephanie [07:07]: "At the end of 2023, revolving credit was measured at over $1.3 trillion."

• Demographics of Debt: Over 52% of female cardholders carry a credit card balance month-to-month, primarily for essential expenses like groceries, childcare, and utilities, challenging the stereotype of debt stemming from frivolous spending.

  Stephanie [07:24]: "52% of female cardholders carry a credit card balance month to month... It's not shopping sprees."

• Income Levels: Surprisingly, 57% of households with incomes $80,000 or more annually maintain revolving credit card debt for over a year, indicating that debt is not confined to lower-income brackets.

  Jen [07:58]: "These are middle class, upper middle class households that are putting day to day expenses on a credit card."

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3. Credit Card Debt: Myths vs. Realities

Jen and Stephanie debunk common misconceptions, clarifying that everyday expenses often lead to credit card debt rather than extravagant purchases.

Stephanie [10:05]: "Buying everyday expenses on a credit card isn't the issue. It's the not paying it off at the end of every month and then eventually paying the interest on that."

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4. Six Secrets Credit Card Companies Don’t Want You to Know

Referencing an article by Dow Jones, the hosts outline six critical insights about credit card operations that can empower consumers to manage their debt better.

a. Fixed Rates Aren’t Completely Fixed

While advertised as stable, APRs can change based on factors like credit score fluctuations or missed payments.

Stephanie [11:15]: "A fixed rate isn't set in stone... they can change the APR based on other factors."

b. The Misleading 45-Day Notice

Credit card companies must notify consumers 45 days in advance of APR changes, but interest at the new rate begins immediately after the notice period.

Jen [12:40]: "On the 15th day after they tell you, then the account starts accruing interest at the new higher interest rate."

c. Profit from Consumer Loss

Credit card companies earn significantly from interest payments, with $105 billion of the $130 billion revenue in 2022 coming from interest alone.

Stephanie [13:25]: "Credit card companies made $130 billion off of consumers in 2022 and $105 billion of that came from interest alone."

d. Negotiation is Possible

Consumers can sometimes negotiate lower APRs or fees by directly contacting their credit card providers.

Jen [14:28]: "They're sometimes willing to negotiate. So this is a positive thing more in your favor and you can ask for a lower APR."

e. Hidden Fees are Common

From annual fees to balance transfer fees, credit card companies embed various charges that consumers might overlook.

Stephanie [16:55]: "Credit card companies like to sneak in fees, and if we're not really paying attention, we may not even realize all the fees that we can incur."

f. Merchant Processing Fees Indirectly Affect Consumers

These fees can lead to higher prices for goods and services, especially in small businesses that pass on the cost to consumers.

Jen [23:00]: "Retailers build that price into the prices that they sell you things... So sometimes prices increase not just with inflation but also because of these credit card processing fees."

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5. The Broader Impact of Credit Card Debt

Beyond individual finances, credit card debt has systemic implications, influencing where and how banks invest consumer money.

• Investment in Fossil Fuels: The world's 60 largest banks committed $6.9 trillion to the fossil fuel industry over eight years.

  Jen [29:29]: "The world's 60 biggest banks committed $6.9 trillion over the last eight years to the fossil fuel industry."

• Lobbying Against Consumer-Friendly Regulations: Banks often oppose regulations that protect consumers, such as limiting payday loans or enhancing oversight.

  Stephanie [29:29]: "In 2024, banks lobbied against regulations that would cut funding for legal programs that help people like veterans, domestic violence victims, and families facing eviction."

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6. Motivating Factors to Eliminate Credit Card Debt

Jen emphasizes the ethical dimension of debt-free living, highlighting how paying off debt aligns personal finances with broader societal values.

Jen [25:31]: "Being in credit card debt actually does impact other people negatively... you're investing in whatever Chase or Bank of America or Wells Fargo wants to invest it in."

Stephanie reinforces the personal and communal benefits of reducing debt, advocating for spending aligned with values.

Stephanie [30:32]: "What you choose individually still does matter. Where we choose to shop and purchase from, how we choose to use our singular dollars... it matters."

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7. Practical Advice and Personal Experiences

The hosts share actionable strategies and personal anecdotes to inspire and guide listeners in their debt-free journey.

• Negotiating Fees and APRs: Attempting to negotiate with credit card companies can lead to reduced fees or lower interest rates.

  Jen [15:39]: "It's always worth making that call to see if you can get a discount because those are the places where we see the most opportunity for negotiation."

• Understanding and Avoiding Fees: Being vigilant about fees such as annual fees, balance transfer fees, and foreign transaction fees can prevent unnecessary financial burdens.

  Stephanie [19:07]: "All plans come with high-speed data, unlimited talk and text... So if you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you."

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8. Listener Engagement: Bill of the Week

The segment allows listeners to share their financial victories, fostering a supportive community atmosphere.

Stephanie [35:25]: "When you pay off your credit card debt, we want to hear about it and you know where you can tell us the bill of the week."

A listener named Stephanie shares her journey in optimizing spending on food, activities, and travel, illustrating real-life application of the discussed principles.

Stephanie [52:54]: "If my spending on food is what's keeping me from being able to max out my Roth IRA, then that's a problem."

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9. Conclusion and Call to Action

Jen and Stephanie encourage listeners to take control of their financial decisions, aligning spending with personal values to achieve a debt-free and fulfilling life.

Stephanie [33:06]: "Being able to make decisions to spend better, reduce our debt on high-interest types of loans... matters for more than just your individual wallet."

Jen adds a heartfelt note, inviting listeners to share their successes and continue the journey toward financial freedom.

Jen [34:53]: "We're reading new books with Kai, and one of them is about spending. It's like I feel like it's one."

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Final Thoughts: This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for those grappling with credit card debt, dispelling myths, uncovering hidden truths about credit card companies, and providing practical strategies to regain financial control. By intertwining data, ethical considerations, and personal stories, Jen and Jill offer a relatable and empowering narrative that encourages listeners to align their financial habits with their values, ultimately fostering a healthier financial life.

Transcript

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[Stephanie]

Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

[Jen]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen. My name is Jill and today we are talking specifically about credit card debt. When we gave you guys the mega survey that you filled out last month, the number one goal most of you had was paying off debt. So we definitely do want to touch on different types of debt and we think that credit card debt is some of the most dangerous and widely harmful. And that's what we're starting with.

[Stephanie]

So we know that most of us who have debt, yeah, we want it gone. You've already told us that. But there's even more things that we can explore and understand about credit cards and credit card debt that we think will even help to provide more incentive to get this paid off and to not find ourselves specifically in credit card debt again in the future.

[Jen]

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[Jen]

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[Stephanie]

I'm excited for it. Hopefully enough of you want it so we can do it, right?

[Jen]

We would be excited to make this. Record the videos, record the walkthroughs, create the templates, the checklists, all of that. All right, so let's get into credit card debt. We're going to break this up into three parts. We're going to talk a little bit about data, a little bit about things that you may not know, insights you may not know about credit card debt. And then some, some of the things banks are doing with the money that you pay in interest and what you might be funding that you are unaware of.

[Stephanie]

So it's really interesting to go into some of these statistics and we'll just kind of rattle off a couple that we found for like 2025 credit card debt stats and so. Well, but it needs to look back.

[Jen]

Because it's still the early 2023. We don't have those.

[Stephanie]

So this one though, the first one starts in 2023 where they found that at the end of 2023, revolving credit was measured at over $1.3 trillion. So that's the amount of credit card debt that we are carrying over. That's what that kind of revolving interest.

[Jen]

Is being charged on.

[Stephanie]

Yeah. And that 52% of female cardholders carry a credit card balance month to month. So meaning we're not paying it off every month. Over half of us are carrying that over. Meaning you're paying that interest on that debt that you're carrying over. It may only be $501,000, but at 18 to 24%, that's a significant amount more money you're paying for whatever it was that you had bought and now you can't pay off.

[Jen]

Yeah. And more than a quarter 28, it's just day to day expenses. It's groceries, childcare, utilities, just normal stuff. It is not shopping sprees. And 15% said it was like emergency and unexpected medical bills. So these are things that are not lavish. Right. We sometimes think of credit card debt and we are conditioned to picture the woman holding eight bags coming from the shopping mall, having spent all her money.

[Stephanie]

And it's all on shoes because she just can't stop herself from buying shoes.

[Jen]

It's, that narrative is false, right? It is on regular day to day things. But here's the thing. Most households that carry credit card debt month to month are higher income. So 57% of households owning, earning 80,000 or more per year have had their revolving credit card debt for over a year. 22% have had it for five years or more. So we're not necessarily speaking about very low income households. These are middle class, upper middle class households that are putting day to day expenses on a credit card and there's some kind of disconnect there. And obviously if it's a spending issue that we, you know, maybe we're, we're overspending here and having to put, you know, important things on a credit card, that's a different conversation. But it is a conversation about this should technically be something you can pay off. We're talking to households that technically have the income to be able to afford groceries and save an emergency fund for unexpected expenses and just need guidance on how to get there.

[Stephanie]

Yeah, and buying everyday expenses on a credit card isn't the issue. It's the not paying it off at the end of every month and then eventually paying the interest on that. And that can just be so overwhelming over many, many years of this revolving credit card debt and just the mounting interest. And it can feel like you're just buried underneath all of it. And so, yeah, for that reason, I think it's important to kind of look at spending and understand kind of how credit cards work and operate so that we can make some of these changes, important beneficial changes to the ways in which we engage with credit. So we want to look at, there's this really helpful article from Dow Janes and it's about six things credit card companies don't want you to know. And the first is that your fixed rate isn't set in stone. This is super deceptive because fixed seems to indicate it is not moving unchanging.

[Jen]

Right.

[Stephanie]

But really what that means is that the APR or interest rate on the credit card won't change due to inflation or the prime index. However, that doesn't mean that the interest rate won't change based on other factors, like if you have a history of missing payments or your credit score took a hit for whatever reason, they do have the ability to change the apr, the interest rate that you are paying on that credit card debt if you are carrying over a balance month to month.

[Jen]

Yeah. And most people are not delinquent. It's only about 3% are more than 30 days delinquent on their credit card payments. So most of the time you're going to be fixed into this rate. But like you said, if your credit score goes down or you know, something happens, an emergency comes and you have maxed out your credit card and you can't take out another credit card, then you could be like hit, you know, the cherry on top would be a hit with a, with a higher fixed rate. But still credit card rates are super high. They are most of the time at least 20%. I have not seen anything under 20% unless it's like a 0% introductory in a very long time.

[Stephanie]

Yeah, it's insane. I don't know what mine is. I thought it was 18%, but yeah, maybe, maybe it's changed. But still you're talking high, high, high range, right?

[Jen]

That is mostly fixed, that's not going down. So that is the least amount of interest you will pay. The second thing is that the 45 day notice is misleading. If your APR does go up, the credit card company is required to send you a 45 day notice. However, that doesn't mean that you have 45 days until the new APR kicks in. It only means you have 45 days to pay the extra interest accrued at the higher interest rate. So in actuality, on the 15th day after they tell you, then the account starts accruing interest at the new higher interest rate.

[Stephanie]

And of course this one's obvious, but it's still worth stating. The third thing, they profit from your loss. Obviously if you do not pay off that credit card and you have a balance rolling over to the next month, they are making from you that 18 to 27% interest off of you over time, continuing to rack up this amount of money. And so they reference that credit card companies made $130 billion off of consumers in 2022 and 105 billion of that came from interest alone. So the other amounts of money I'm assuming is from, you know, the charges that they give to the vendors to be able to utilize the credit card. But the majority of it, $105 billion is just from the interest that we are paying them.

[Jen]

So next is they're sometimes willing to negotiate. So this is a, this is a positive thing more in your favor and you can ask for a lower apr. I would love to hear if somebody's asked for that and actually gotten it more. So I hear if you have like any late FE or just fees, usually it's a late payment fee or if a debit if you had a debit card, it'd be like an insufficient fund fee or fees like that. They'll often take them off. If you have an annual fee on your credit card, if you call to cancel it. I've canceled so many cards over the years because I don't like to pay the annual fees. It is becoming less and less likely that they will comp that card. They'll just cancel it. The last time I canceled a card, they did say that they would give me a credit. So I still have to pay the annual fee, but I'd get like a $30 credit, which brought the $100 annual fee down to like 70. But it's. Yeah, they still would make me pay 100.

[Stephanie]

Because you were canceling after the annual fee was.

[Jen]

No, no, no, no. I just called to cancel. And one of their incentives to try to get me to not cancel was giving me the credit. So they. They can give you a discount. That is a risk. And honestly, even if you want to keep the card, I would still call and try to cancel it. And if they're not going to give you a discount or. And you can just say it's because of the annual fee, and they might say, like, okay, we can waive that for you. And say like, it's because the annual fee, if you were able to waive it for me this year, I would keep the card, yada yada. So then they may give that to you, and if they don't, they might give you a discount, and then you can decide whether it's worth it or not. Or you can just be like, you know what, I changed my mind. If they're just going to let you cancel, they'll double check with you a couple times before you actually cancel. And then you can just say like, no, nevermind, actually, I'm going to keep it. I'll pay the annual fee. So it's always worth making that call to see if you can get a discount because. Because those are the places those fees are where we see the most opportunity for negotiation. I think more so than the apr. But I actually have never tried to negotiate an apr because I pay off in full every month, right?

[Stephanie]

Yeah, yeah. There'd be no reason to do that if you're paying it in full. All right. Number five is credit card companies like to sneak in fees, and if we're not really paying attention, we may not even realize all the fees that we can incur. So the first is annual fees. You mentioned that one already, Jen. For a lot of credit cards, particularly your travel rewards credit cards. You're going to have an annual fee and it's kind of one of the ways of paying for the perks that you eventually get back in other ways. For some people it's worth it, for other people it's not. But really being aware of what is the annual fee on the credit card, when does that annual fee get charged? Making sure that you are canceling the card before that annual fee gets charged. If you don't want the credit card anymore, you want to switch to a different one. So that's a big one to be aware of. There are a few important things we believe everyone should be doing with their money, one of them being securing term life insurance for yourself. It's one of the best ways to prepare for the unexpected and we're thrilled to introduce you to a company that gives you coverage and peace of mind in just minutes.

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[Stephanie]

The next is balance transfer fees. So this can happen when you choose to transfer the balance of one credit card to another, oftentimes to get a lower interest rate. So that is a strategy that you could consider. But you will pay a balance transfer fee. Not totally sure exactly how much this would be, but any amount of money to do this is not something that I want to be spending. Of course you've got late payment fees. When you don't pay your credit card bill by the due date, even at least the minimum payment, you're usually going to be hit with a fee. They mentioned back in 2022 how the average fee for late payments was about $32. And US consumers paid in that year a total of $14.5 billion in late payment fees. So even just not paying the minimum can get you really hit with some awful, unexpected charges. And finally is foreign transaction fees. So if you are traveling in another country paying in a different currency with that credit card, the fee is meant to kind of COVID the costs associated with converting the currency and processing the payment. So certainly if you are a person who loves to travel, a travel rewards credit card might be better for you where you don't have those foreign transaction fees, but something to look into before you do travel. But again, we are always going to recommend that if you're using a credit card you are able to pay it off in full. We are not going to recommend that you're putting luxuries and travel on a credit card and using that as a loan.

[Jen]

And again, the fees are the easiest thing to negotiate. So if you are hit with one of these 100% of the time, you should call and try to get it taken off. And then last is not necessarily directly hitting consumers, but it kind of peripherally does is merchant processing fees. So in addition to user fees, credit card companies collect money from businesses merchants who accept credit cards. These are usually like a flat fee per transaction plus 2.9%. I want, I want to say it's 25 cents, but that feels very high. So don't quote me on that. But it is the flat fee plus 2.9%. And while this, this doesn't hit you directly but sometimes there will be a higher price or a minimum if you pay with a credit card, especially at local places. There these retailers build that price into their, the prices that they sell you things. So sometimes prices increase not at just the rate of inflation, but because of also these credit card processing fees if they're getting too much. Especially for small businesses. When we are looking at small businesses and we're wondering why is, why are these, you know, things the same things more expensive at a small business? Part of it is merchant processing fees. They have to account for those because. And they want to because it kind of, it's a net wash for them. Because when you pay with a credit card you buy more. So it's not necessarily good for anyone. So if you are shopping local and you can carry cash for local businesses do helps them just a smidge more.

[Stephanie]

So those are all of the ways that credit cards and their systems around how they charge you, how they work, impact you individually. But there's also some more nefarious things to look at in the way that credit cards impact us on a more global kind of macro level scale that it's important to realize and be aware of and possibly even help us to make some of these more beneficial decisions not just for ourselves, but for our community and world at large.

[Jen]

Yeah, when I was thinking about credit card debt and like what this episode should be, we wanted it to have a piece that motivated you to get out of credit card debt quicker. And for me, knowing the fees and the APR can change and all that, it's good to know. But it doesn't necessarily motivate me more because it only affects me like it's not affecting other people. What really, really motivates me more is when my decisions impact other people. And being in credit card debt actually does impact other people negatively. Because your money is going to the bank that holds your credit card. A lot of the times, that's Chase, bank of America, Citi. These are some of the top credit card companies. And those companies aren't just funding like mortgages and car loans and small business loans. Right? Those are actually for the most part a small, like not a huge. Well, I guess it's dependent on percentages. But that's not all that they are doing with your money. They are also funding some things that you may not morally agree with. Again, in our mega survey last month, a ton of you said you wanted to know more about how to be frugal without sacrificing sustainability. And just like the cultural, just being a good citizen of the world and getting out of credit card debt is one way that you can do it. So we looked at where, like where your, where the biggest banks, biggest credit card companies are investing your money. This is the money you are paying them in interest. And so think about this like if you had $5,000 in credit card debt and it had like 18% interest because maybe you've had it for a while, it's an older credit card and you're looking to pay it off, you're going to pay it off in maybe two and a half years. You're going to pay $200 a month. Then that's over $1,300 in interest. So essentially, instead of maybe investing $1,300 in your own retirement and your own personal growth, you have invested $1,300 in whatever chase or bank of America or Wells Fargo wants to invest it in. And here are some of the places where they are investing in. So the world's 60 biggest banks committed 6.9 trillion over the last eight years to the fossil fuel industry. If you're not 100% familiar with fossil fuels, I don't blame you. I actually had to Google it as well. Fossil fuels power the machinery and that produce plastics for fast fashion and inevitably all those microplastics everywhere and a bunch of other like, big stuff that maybe like, I don't care about as much. But you could watch documentaries on fossil fuels. Right. We're not going to go into that. So the three banks that invest the most into the fossil fuel industry are Chase, Citigroup, which is Citi C I T I and bank of America. Wells Fargo, I think, was number four or five also for our Canadian listeners. The Royal bank of Canada actually was number one in 2024, I think. But I couldn't figure out how much they invested in fossil fuels. But in 2022, they invested $42.1 billion, 4.8 of that was for tar sands and 7.4 billion went into fracking. So it's not just American banks, it's also banks in Canada, banks in Japan, all over the world.

[Stephanie]

We've also found that last year, so in 2024, banks, some of these bigger banks, lobbied against regulations that would cut funding for legal programs that help people like veterans, domestic violence victims and families facing eviction, that would limit payday loans and laws that would give or require more oversight for banks. And so these are the types of things that big banks are lobbying against. You know, where we are kind of using them to our benefit as an individual, but then they are working against us on a larger scale. And so to be aware that when we're paying interest, that $105 billion of the total $130 billion that they earn in revenue annually is going to some of these efforts that we would probably not choose to be putting our money towards. So all the more reason to find ourselves in a position where we are not paying interest on our credit card debt.

[Jen]

Yep. And then last one back in 2018, 2019. So banks used to be big funders of gun manufacturing companies, so like military assault, firearms stuff and private prison groups. And in about 2018, 2019, there was so much advocacy against both of those industries that literally all of the major banks pulled out. And so that felt like a major win. You knew if you were putting your money in Chase, putting your money in bank of America, you knew they wouldn't be investing in companies that manufactured assault weapons and were, you know, there was so much news about how private prisons were just creating so many human rights violations in their private prisons. So you knew your money wasn't going there. Actually last year bank of America backed off its blanket ban on lending to companies that manufacture what it has labeled as military style firearms. And so knowing, so now you can't put your money with bank of America and know that it's not going there. And if bank of America can do it, then other smaller banks feel safer doing it. And if they can do it at firearms, then who's to say they're not also going to back off with private prisons? So once stuff is out of the news and once there's less pressure like banks will take, you know, will do these things for optics and once they're out of the media, they can back off on them. And so there's just so much to think about when you are a putting your money in these places. We definitely recommend credit unions for that reason. You can go to a website called Mighty Deposit and you can actually see your bank, you can put your bank in and see how much money of your money stays in the community, what it's doing, what it's investing in and see like what grade your bank gets. And so we, you know, fully support local banks and credit unions for that reason, but we often don't talk a lot about your credit card interest and the money, the thousands of dollars potentially over your lifetime that you will pay to these banks, what they're gonna do and what you could have done alternatively with those thousands of dollars, where would you have put it?

[Stephanie]

In a time when it feels like what do I even have within my power, within my control to make any type of change and where I think a lot of people just go to just vote, okay, that's like one day every four years on the bicker voting stuff. But this, what we do with our money on a daily basis does matter. It matters mostly when we can kind of be a part of a community and in aggregate make these decisions and choices. But what you choose individually still does matter. Where we choose to shop and purchase from, how we choose to use our singular dollars and whether or not we are carrying credit card debt and paying interest to some of these larger banks and financial institutions, that matters. And so when we can make the decisions to spend better, reduce our debt on high interest types of loans, then we are able to make a pretty significant difference and hopefully feel even better and more confident about the spending decisions that you are making. I think it helps us feel less guilt and shame around our money decisions when we can feel really confident about where we're spending, even if we are spending a little more than maybe we might have spent on Amazon to buy the thing. So yeah, this is hopefully inspiration for you to keep doing the good work that you are doing to refine your spending, align it with your values and get rid of this high interest debt because it matters for more than just your individual wallet.

[Jen]

And you know, when you pay off your credit card debt, we want to Hear about it and you know where you can tell us the bill of the week. That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.

[Jill]

Maybe you paid off your mortgage.

[Jen]

Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week. Hi, my name is Stephanie and I love your podcast. I feel like I'm listening to real friends talk about money in a non scary way and I wanted to call in my bill of the week, which is buy what you love without going broke. Your new book. I'm so excited to read it and I've pre ordered it and I am so excited for January to get my copy. Oh my gosh, Stephanie. Well, this is out in March and so I love it. Whenever we have a bill of the week that shows how behind we are in bill of the week, but also that we play every single one. So thank you so much, Stephanie. I hope you have gotten started on the book and that you have been enjoying it. I am. I have been enjoying it. Buy what you love without going broke has been an amazing experience. Way better than I even anticipated. I knew it would be good to write this book and publish it, but it's been 10 times better.

[Stephanie]

Yeah, I thought that it'd be like a little anticlimactic for it to go out into the world because we'd already held the book tangibly and and we've been working on it for two years, but it was the most climactic thing ever. And especially when we hear from listeners like you, Steph, saying, I just bought it or I'm reading it or here's my thoughts on it. And you all have been so encouraging and it's been definitely wind beneath our wings to feel like we are actually helping people. This book is actually really helping people and solidifying some of the ideas. You know, the fact that we can put what we've learned in the past seven years into one tangible product that you can have and read and implement upon feels really cool in a different way than podcasting where we're just taking deep dives on snippets of concepts in a 45 minute episode. But being able to give you a resource and a guide that is kind of comprehensive all in one. So thank you so much for pre ordering that stuff and now having it in your hands. We're so excited. Thanks for your support.

[Jen]

And if you want to get one in your hands, head to buy what you lovebook.com There are several ways that you can order it and we even have instructions on how you can request it at your library.

[Stephanie]

And if you have a bill of the week that you want to submit, if it has to do with buying our book guilt free, if it has to do with paying off your credit card debt or you are bill and you've got literally anything to share with us about your life, we would be so thrilled to hear about it. Frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill leave us your bill. I don't know about you, but overpaying for wireless cell service is not in my values. If you too are fed up with crazy high wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks that actually cost you more in the long run, then make the switch to Mint Mobile.

[Jen]

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[Stephanie]

All plans come with high speed data, unlimited talk and text and is delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. So if you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] frugal that's mintmobile.com frugal upfront.

[Jen]

Payment of $45 for 3 months 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. C Mint Mobile for details hi friend, it's your inner child calling and they.

[Stephanie]

Want churros.

[Jen]

A new toy and a new adventure. Or maybe five with the bestest besties on Earth. Find your moment at Walt Disney World Resort.

[Jill]

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[Stephanie]

Looking to save even more money on your phone bill? How does free sound? Helium Mobile is offering the first free phone plan. That's right, free phone service. Seriously? No bill, no contract, just free.

[Jen]

It's not just some limited time deal. You get nationwide 5G coverage with 3 gigabytes of data, 300 texts and 100 minutes of calls. If you need more data, you can upgrade to their other plans. Plus you're supporting a community built network that's growing every day to keep you seamlessly connected wherever you go.

[Stephanie]

When we first heard about Helium Mobile, we couldn't wait to share it with all our frugal listeners who are looking to budget smarter when it comes to everyday necessities without sacrificing quality.

[Jen]

So if you're in the market to cut that monthly phone bill, like really cut it, Helium Mobile is where it's at. Download the Helium Mobile app today and use the code Frugal to get your free plan today.

[Stephanie]

And now it's time for the lightning round.

[Jen]

Okay, what do you use your credit card for and when will you pay? Cash. I will also add, okay, so we use our credit card for all spending unless you cannot. So like utilities, term life insurance, like stuff like that. We that gets taken out of debit, but literally everything else is credit card. We will use cash for Facebook marketplace purchases, but sometimes more often we're using like Venmo or something. I don't pay interest, but I will occasionally pay an annual fee. The Hyatt credit card is the one that I pay an annual fee on. I did pay an annual fee for 2 ink business. I can't remember. There's so many types of Chase Ink business like cards, but this is the one where you could transfer out to partners. Not just like purchase travel through the portal. And I like to transfer out and book flights and hotels and all that directly on those sites. So. And it actually ends up being a better redemption value too. So it's kind of a wash. But I canceled one of those cards and the other one I will cancel before the annual fee comes up. So.

[Stephanie]

So yeah, you churn credit cards a lot more than I do.

[Jen]

I churn them, I get the welcome bonus, I keep them for a year and then I cut them off and I wait until I'm eligible for the bonus again. And then I'll get it and I'll pay an annual fee to get that welcome bonus. But I won't necessarily pay an annual fee again if I don't have the incentive of a bonus.

[Stephanie]

Yeah, I love my travel credit cards too much and there's not enough good ones to be able to churn them too quickly. But yeah, for me, really similar. I will use my credit card for all spending, pay it off in full every month. I actually make pay. Like I pay it off multiple times a month just so I don't see the bill get too high. Except I won't use a credit card if I can get a discount by paying cash. So there are plenty of vendors who might either say it's less money or they're going to tack on a fee if you're using a credit card. So in those situations, I won't. There was a time where I calculated it to see, okay, would it be worth it though? Even though they're gonna charge me an extra 2% to use my credit card for the bonus points that I would get on this transaction. And it did come out to be like a wash, that the amount that the points were worth and what they could get me was like the same amount as the extra money that I was spending. So I say that just to say, don't assume that, oh, you know what, it doesn't matter. Let me just use my credit card because I'll get the rewards for it or whatever. Usually it's a wash or is not good in your favor. So still better to pay cash than to be getting those rewards.

[Jen]

Yeah, I think so. Some of our listeners have issues. And I know you've talked about this, Jill. Like when you carry cash, you kind of just spend it. Cause it doesn't feel like real money anymore. But I think, I hope that maybe we can get into a little bit more cash at least maybe at local places. Like if you're going to a farmer's market and you know you're gonna spend money there, maybe doing cash. But some of these smaller vendors are no longer taking cash. Some of them are only doing cards.

[Stephanie]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So it is an interesting world that we live in right now. So do what feels right to you. But if you're the kind of person who's like, I need to get cash too often I can't use a credit or I can't use a credit union, I would say I take out cash every month for different things and I use a credit union. And you can always, even if you can't use a credit union if it's just really not feasible for you. Like I can get money out at Publix. So like the credit union has a partnership with public so I don't have to go to a bank or a credit union like ATM for mcash. I can just go to any Publix. But if it's really that inconvenient for you, do go to mighty deposits.com and see what banks in your area would be more more convenient for you but and not as like detrimental to the things that you care about.

[Stephanie]

Thank you all so so much for listening. It's been lovely hanging out with you. We hope that this has been helpful, inspiring, informative. We also are so grateful for the kind reviews that you're leaving for us about our book, like this one from Dora who talked about Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke, giving it five stars saying it's inspiring and about money. I've heard great things about Jen Smith's and Jill Sirianni's podcast Frugal Friends. However, I tend to prefer reading books over listening to podcasts. Fortunately, they recently published a book titled Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke. This allows me to review their ideas, highlight what resonates with me, and revisit their most important points. I highly recommend this book. The central theme focuses on values based spending, which means spending based on what truly matters to you. They illustrate this concept with personal stories, making it relatable and providing a perspective that really hits home. As I continued to read and reflect on their ideas, I found myself changing my spending and saving habits. These changes have left me feeling positive and are a testament to the power of values based spending, which aligns with my values and priorities rather than those of society or advertisers. I'm excited to read their newsletter and subscribe to their YouTube channel. What what to keep this inspiration going.

[Jen]

We are woo girls. We try to say that we're not, but we are woo girls. Thank you so much Dora. We love reading your reviews. If you haven't reviewed the show yet, please on Spotify or Apple Podcast please leave a Rating Review Comment if you like this episode on Spotify and if you have read the book then please give it a review on Amazon Goodreads wherever you purchased it. We would love to see those and it also helps the book expand its reach further and wider and expand the message further and wider and you can find [e-mail] thanks so much everyone. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.

[Stephanie]

I had so many things that I wanted to say to you, and now they're all out the dome.

[Jen]

Oh, my gosh. I had nothing from start to finish.

[Stephanie]

Okay, here's something. Oh, yay. I was doing our transaction inventory, which is like, basically what I do every. That's how I do my spending plan.

[Jen]

Some people are Jills and some people are Jen's.

[Stephanie]

Yeah. So I was looking back at kind of all of the spending that I've done and kind of where do my transactions go? I have, like, a really good pulse on it. But for January and February, it was quite interesting to recognize that Eric and I spend on food, activities, and travel.

[Jen]

Nobody is shocked.

[Stephanie]

Are not buying things. Just like, things, products, tangible stuff other than the food is not coming through our doorstep. But nobody is shocked. How much are we spending on activities, travel, food?

[Jen]

Yeah. What would you do if you didn't spend on activities and travel?

[Stephanie]

You know, I do think that. Okay, you said activities and travel or one.

[Jen]

Just pick. What if it's on.

[Stephanie]

Well, I want to say less food. I feel like don't even. I'm not even gonna. I'm not changing travel and activities. Just not happening.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Stephanie]

But food, I do feel like we. We ebb and flow in just spending too much. What I feel is. But sometimes I'm like, what is enough? Who knows? Seasons change, guests come in town, there's birthdays.

[Jen]

I think it's easier to spend less on activities and travel than it is to spend less on food, maybe.

[Stephanie]

But for me, I feel like that is a thing that I can go in and out of within my rhythm.

[Jen]

Because there's so many options for free activities and, like, lower cost travel.

[Stephanie]

And maybe I'm making it sound like this is insane, but I will say about once a quarter, we are buying tickets to, like, a concert or a comedy show. Otherwise, we are doing all of the free activities. But, like, as something comes up that just seems like, oh, yeah, that'd be so fun. Like, for instance, in April, we're gonna go see Fred Armisen live at, like, the Tampa theater. I bought that back in January, like, knowing come April, this would be something really fun to do that weekend. We also recently bought tickets for a concert that's like a couple months away. So there's. It's that kind of a thing. And then when it comes to travel, I have family in Ohio and both of us have family in Pennsylvania. And so we try to get to both places. Pennsylvania at least two to three times a year. Ohio once a quarter.

[Jen]

So it's not like recreation. It's not like in. I would say, recreational travel. Not all.

[Stephanie]

Yeah, like touristy. Whatever. Now, those trips do happen. I'd say, you know, we take like, one big vacation a year and probably like two smaller long weekend trips a year. But I budget for, like, I plan for that. I feel like I know myself so well.

[Jen]

It doesn't sound like you're spending a lot on either. How are those the things that you are spending most on?

[Stephanie]

Well, it's just. I mean, it's. It is the most amount of money because I just bought tickets to go to Ohio in a couple of weeks. And for both Eric and I to go, I want to say it was like $240. So not insane. But it's just like when you look at my spending, it's like, okay, I made three transactions, but they all tally up to like seven or $800. But. But it's to do these things that. But that's the thing. It looks like you're spending a lot of money on this. But I also know that. I know that these are the things that are important to me, what they get me. And I just. I don't want to budge on them. I feel like I've really come to understand what I want right now.

[Jen]

I feel like you're in a good spot. Like, you don't need to over efficiency. I. I don't. That's not a word. You don't need to, like, overdo it if you are in a good spot and you're like, these are the amounts that feel good to you. And I told you this before we started recording, but I'll say it on the show. We're reading new books with Kai, and one of them is about spending the Money Bunny series. And one of the show, she's like, trying to decide what she wants to spend her money on. And she's like, oh, there's a toy or a pogo stick. And it's the carrots. Carrots are money in Bunnyland, that's the first page of every book. So, like, a toy for two carats or pogo stick for three carats. And mom's like, oh, you loved that bouncy castle. And she's like, I love it. And Mom's like, the bouncy castle's a hundred carats. She's like, that's ridiculous. And Mom's like, it's not ridiculous if you have a hundred carats and nothing else to spend them on. And the bunny's like, still ridiculous. Forget the bouncy. Castle. So like I feel like it's one.

[Stephanie]

Of your bunny voices.

[Jen]

You gotta do the voices how you read.

[Stephanie]

Yeah.

[Jen]

You gotta do the voices. So like I feel like it's. Yeah, $800. But it's not ridiculous if you have $800 and nothing else you want to spend it on or value spending it on.

[Stephanie]

I think that's my biggest thing is like optimizing in investing for retirement. And that's where I think food would be the easiest low hanging fruit to reign in at different points. That if my spending on food is what's keeping me from being able to max out my Roth ira, then that's a problem.

[Jen]

Yeah. No, Yeah. I would say that's probably your biggest area for improvement. But you're doing very good.

[Stephanie]

Yeah. It is nuts. I know this is becoming a whole other episode and we're gonna have to do our own spending interventions, but we eat at home most days of the week, but then the weekend comes and we're just doing a whole lot more activities and I'm not cooking like these big meals or we have friends come in town and it's easier to just go out than have pre prepared all of the food that we're gonna feed them for the four days that they're in town. So it's a tough one to solve for.

[Jen]

Yeah. I still think that people who stay with you need to buy you food. That's always gonna be cause you have so many people and they come back so many times. Like the people that stay with you, they come back several times every year.

[Stephanie]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So I'm a standby.

[Stephanie]

You heard it here first, folks. Looking to save even more money on your phone bill, how does free sound? Helium Mobile is offering the first free phone plan. That's right. Free phone service. Seriously. No bill, no contract, just free.

[Jen]

It's not just some limited time deal. You get nationwide 5G coverage with 3 gigabytes of data, 300 texts and 100 minutes of calls. If you need more data, you can upgrade to their other plans. Plus, you're supporting a community built network that's growing every day to keep you seamlessly connected wherever you go.

[Stephanie]

When we first heard about Helium Mobile, we couldn't wait to share it with all our frugal listeners who are looking to budget smarter when it comes to everyday necessities without sacrificing quality.

[Jen]

So if you're in the market to cut that monthly phone bill, like really cut it, Helium Mobile is where it's at. Download the Helium Mobile app today and use the Code frugal to get your free plan today. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on what your kids are spending. With real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free [e-mail] iheart it's.

[Jill]

Tax season, and by now I know we're all a bit tired of numbers, but here's an important one you need to hear $16.5 billion. That's how much money in refunds the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Here's another 20%. That's the overall increase in identity theft related to tax fraud in 2024 alone. But it's not all grim news. Here's a good number. 100 million. That's how many data points Lifelock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's US based restoration specialists will fix it. It backed by another good number, the Million Dollar Protection Plan. In fact, restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Don't face identity theft and financial losses alone. There's strength in numbers with Lifelock Identity theft protection for tax season and beyond. Join now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms apply.

[Jen]

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