Kendra (2:31)

Ooh, my goals? Or like what I want to spend my money on?

Jill (2:38)

Well, what do you want? How do you want to feel about your spending. What do you want your financial life to look like in. In that your spending would support that?

Kendra (2:49)

I think I just want to feel, like, comfortable and not from a place of scarcity anymore. I think that would probably be my ultimate goal is to. I'm still pretty, like, thrifty. I do take pride in that. And, like, because it's fun to find the deals, but I also don't want to feel like I have to be thrifty because of the scarcity of, like, when's the next paycheck coming? And I think that would be, like, a goal is just to feel.

Jen (3:21)

Her mission to spend money and not feel guilty about pulling out your credit card every time.

Kendra (3:27)

Right.

Jen (3:28)

So give us then a little bit of background, like if you can kind of tell us briefly about maybe where does that scarcity come from as well as kind of current life stage that you find yourself at?

Kendra (3:41)

Well, I grew up from. My dad's side of the family is fairly wealthy. My mom's side of the family is not. So I think seeing like, both sides and what is, like, taken for granted but also, like, valued. I mean, both sides are very lovely in their own ways. But I could see like, you're kind of like, oh, yeah, I'll just buy everybody's dinner. And it's like, you know, $300 meal versus on my, my mom's side, we're all like, okay, here's 20 bucks for the food. Here's 20 bucks for the food. And there's like, a lot of, like, love and joy on my mom's side. So I think I saw. You don't need to have a lot to experience a lot. My grandpa always used to say, like, I wonder what the poor people are doing right now. We're poor, you know, like, we are the poor people. But he just felt so, like, rich with love and always having family around.

Jen (4:33)

Oh, that's sweet.

Kendra (4:34)

So, yeah, that's how he meant it. And now that I'm older, I have a family. I have two boys, I'm married. I want to make sure that my kids grow up, like, knowing the value of the dollar and appreciating it and not like, gripping it tight. Right. Like having like, the open hand concept of, you know, we give and then we also can receive because our hands are open and we're not just, like, holding onto our things and our money so tightly that we can't love others with stuff and let that make sense.

Jill (5:11)

Yeah. Do you ever feel like potentially embracing having this higher income than you have, like, early in your life could mean that you're not as full of love as, like, maybe your mom's side of the family. Have you ever equated that?

Kendra (5:30)

Like, the more money, the less love?

Jill (5:33)

No. Maybe. Maybe I'm miswording it. But, like, I know how sometimes it can be scary to, like, embrace having a higher income because then you're kind of taking on, like, a different identity in a different group of people. So I just didn't know if you had experienced that.

Kendra (5:57)

Oh, yeah. And I'm again, not putting my dad's side of the family down at all because I love them and they're very good people. But my husband works very hard and he is the breadwinner of our family. And so we are stable. And it does feel, you know, it took me a while to be like, I can buy myself a $5 cup of coffee and like, that's okay. And it took me probably, like a couple of years to be like, it's also okay to spend money on myself. So I think the. I don't know if it's like, an identity, but the idea of. Yeah. Not always having to deprive myself of money or deprive, you know, in the deprivation mindset. After reading your book. I know. You know, talking about that. Yeah. I think is. It's weird. It feels a little uncomfortable, to be honest.

Jill (6:47)

Yeah.

Jen (6:47)

So how was it for you going through this 90 day transaction inventory?

Kendra (6:53)

Oh, it was good. It was, you know, you're like, oh, we spent money on food. Like, I'm not. I do not like eating now because I think it is a big waste of money. But then, like, the boys are in baseball and you were like, okay, well, we're going to go to Chick Fil a before baseball. Otherwise, Kendra, you got to make the dinner and do all that prep. So there's like, all this mental load. And sometimes I find myself being like, I'm just going to press the easy button. But then there's guilt in that because then I go to like, well, now we're eating, like, fried food. Is that good for their health? So it, like, there's money involved, but then it goes to, like, their physical health, too. And so going through all this, it was helpful to see. I feel like I did well, but there's always, like, room for improvement. And then reading your book, I'm just going to keep plugging it because I love your book. Thanks. Kendra is. I have seen myself shifting my values and then seeing this, I can see how much work I've Already done. But I can also see where there's always areas of improvement.

Jen (7:58)

Yeah, I do want to preface this to say I don't think that every single spending decision needs to be as optimized as possible. And I do think that's where some of that guilt and shame can come in, where there can be permission to make the efficient choice or the one that provides the convenience. But making sure that you can feel good and free in those decisions too is kind of part of this. So with that we agree there was some really great things that came up. So we want to go through some of the strengths that stood out to us in your 90 day transaction inventory. The first that stood out to me was automated savings transfers. So we love to talk about automatic automating nearly everything so that we don't have to think about it all the time when it comes to bill pay, but especially investing and saving money. And so you already have this happening where it's just coming out of the checking and into the savings account and you have it set up weekly, which is mind boggling and really awesome.

Kendra (9:06)

That's my best week.

Jill (9:07)

Okay, well you can take the credit for it. Yeah.

Jen (9:13)

Good job, Chad. So that really cool to see.

Jill (9:18)

The other thing is that you have life insurance policies. This is something that is taken for granted I think until like really when it matters most. Because these 20 year term life insurance policies are so powerful and by the time you get them, the later part of it, you may not really need it, but you are definitely in a season with young kids where having life insurance, a 20 year term policy is the most valuable. So I mean, I think as soon as you have your first kid, getting a term life insurance policy is just so powerful, it can put your mind at so much ease. So that's great.

Jen (10:05)

And another automation that we saw was automated giving.

Kendra (10:08)

So.

Jen (10:09)

So another kind of set it and forget it. You don't have to have your mindset on it constantly. It doesn't need to be taking up mental space, but out of your checking account to giving to a nonprofit. So that's amazing. So now moving into some of our other observations, like things we want to be able to chat about. I want to start with shopping.

Kendra (10:35)

Yeah.

Jill (10:37)

Well, first, is there a place where you want to improve the most?

Kendra (10:48)

Now I feel like when I go shopping it's like I'll go like a couple weeks and then I'm like, okay, we're gonna spend some money. You. No. But I have found again reading the book, like sometimes I do, I'm like having A bad day or I'm just like, what do I want to do? And there's that need to just like, I'm going to go buy myself a little treat that you can treat yourself bankrupt, you know?

Jill (11:15)

Yes.

Kendra (11:16)

Yeah. I think just like a deal doesn't mean you have to get it is probably where I could improve.

Jill (11:25)

That's really wise. So, yeah, let us start with shopping.

Jen (11:29)

Okay, so there were quite a few shopping transactions, but I mean, as far as strengths go, everything is within your means, and so that's fantastic. But again, kind of to your point of where you want to see improvements, of feeling really good about the shopping that you do, I'm curious about specifically Amazon. So in the last 90 days, you had 17 transactions to Amazon. How do you typically utilize that online shopping?

Kendra (12:00)

Well, I can tell you right now that has changed.

Jen (12:02)

Okay.

Kendra (12:03)

Mainly I am, like, trying to be more environmental. I don't need Amazon to come to my door every day and, sorry, Chad, I'm gonna throw you under the bus here. He does put stuff in the cart and then just is like, bye. And it could come, you know, between two and four today. What is it? You don't need it that fast. So I think that Amazon things probably were at that time, like gifts. And I don't know. I'm trying not to go with Amazon as much.

Jill (12:35)

Well, that's good to know as we go through the rest of this, that being more environmentally friendly is one of your goals.

Kendra (12:41)

Yes.

Jill (12:41)

That will impact some of what we.

Jen (12:44)

Say moving forward and probably how you feel about your spending too.

Kendra (12:50)

So.

Jen (12:51)

Yeah, so all of Amazon, it sounds like it could have been some of. Your husband came to $782.60. I wasn't sure exactly what types of things. I know a lot of people will use Amazon for subscriptions of, like, their protein powder or their diaper deliveries. And so things like that can make sense. But I think one of the pulses to keep on this is when are these purchases happening? Is it for you at all in any way connected to, like, any impulse spending or the type of day that you had? And it sounds like you're trying to, like, move away from using that as a platform. But as we think about feeling good about our money purchases, kind of where we're spending can be part of that key. Before we started recording, too, we talked about Bell's, which is kind of like a local department store.

Jill (13:36)

Well, we complimented you on your dress, which is from Bell's Outlet.

Jen (13:41)

I had never heard of one of these stores before.

Jill (13:43)

I'm getting here it's the Florida store. That's their tagline.

Kendra (13:47)

Yeah.

Jen (13:47)

Personally, when I've been in one, it feels like a lower level.

Jill (13:53)

Kohl's responsible to even say, nobody will disagree with you on that, especially nobody in Florida.

Jen (14:02)

They definitely don't use all of their lighting. Their shelving is a little bit like Home Depot esque. And their pricing to me, doesn't seem that good. Although I'm hearing the word outlet being thrown around. I didn't see that come up in the transaction, but that's what it is. In the last 90 days, you went to Bell's five times?

Kendra (14:23)

Six, easily.

Jen (14:25)

Six easily. She's shocked by it. Tell us about this. Tell us about this.

Kendra (14:30)

Okay, so.

Jill (14:31)

And a quarter is 13 weeks. So that's every other week.

Kendra (14:35)

That's obnoxious. So I have also started to. Instead of, like, impulse buying, if I'm still thinking about something, I will not buy it. And then if I'm still thinking about it, like, a few days later, then I can go back and I feel like, because Bell's outlet is a little bit more on the cheaper side, it's not Temu or Sheen, but it's not like a Marshalls either. I mean, you can get some, like, good quality stuff there. But anyway, so if I'm still thinking about it, I'll go back again a few days later. So I think that is probably why there's so many. And then I'll go and, like, probably return something else. Cause I was like, Even if it's $8, Kendra, I don't want it clogging up my closet. I don't need this. You kind of bought it because you're like, well, I could wear it, and it's inexpensive, so I might as well get it. And I was like, no, because it's creating more stress in my life to have, like, a fuller drawer or fuller closet. So then I go and return it.

Jill (15:28)

That's something I noticed. You went to Target twice in the last 90 days. And at both times, or maybe separate times, there were returns.

Kendra (15:37)

Yeah.

Jill (15:37)

So you are good about returning, but still at Bell's, you spent $334 over the last 90 days, which over a year with that pattern could be 3, 6, 9, 12 at just bells. And as somebody who wants to be more sustainable, you can still have the same deal hunting and shopping experience at one of our many thrift stores. We have a ton of great thrift stores.

Jen (16:08)

We do.

Jill (16:09)

And online, if you really need clothing, which I think maybe it's the physical act of Looking. That might be why you're at Bell's.

Kendra (16:18)

Yeah, I'm not sure.

Jill (16:20)

Yeah, so, like, there are a lot of secondhand stores here that I would say are even aesthetically on par with Bell's outlet, which isn't.

Jen (16:32)

It's not a high bar. Right.

Kendra (16:34)

We're not, you know, you're not.

Jill (16:36)

You're not spending. You didn't go to target 6 times in 1212 weeks.

Jen (16:41)

Is it primarily clothing? Is that what you're getting there?

Kendra (16:47)

Sometimes blankets, sometimes, like, just stuff for the kids because you're like, they're gonna ruin it in a day and a half anyway. This is gonna go against going to Bells, but, like, I tried to buy more quality than quantity, so I think the Bells is like the older Kendra pattern that I'm trying to get out of, but I still have that in my pattern of my life. Does that make sense?

Jill (17:11)

Yeah. I think it's so common that we as frugal people seek deals. Even people who don't consider themselves frugal want to seek deals, but we really do it not considering. What is the total cost to own, what is the total cost to buy, and what is the total environmental cost compared to something that is secondhand purchased on Facebook, Marketplace, ebay, Poshmark, Sunshine Thrift store there. It's just a lot easier and lower barrier to entry to go to a place like Bell's Target Marshalls to buy things. And so then we end up spending more and we end up buying more new things, and we end up returning more things versus these higher barrier to entry things like thrift stores where it's a little less convenient. There go. We buy less, end up returning less. And so there is a total cost to everything involved.

Jen (18:18)

How did you feel about those purchases made at Bell's?

Kendra (18:23)

Fun. I think I went with my mom, and she came and watched the boys. So as like a thank you, I probably bought her, like, a few pieces of clothes, and it's like something we do together. So it was fun. But I think there was a few pieces where I was like, really kind of. I don't. I don't want this. And I really am, because I'm trying to, like, have less stuff. And I just realized, like, this is, like an older pattern. It doesn't feel good. So then I would, like, go back. But then I'm like, when I'm back there, I was like, oh, well, that's kind of cute.

Jill (18:49)

That's the thing. It gets that. It's the trap.

Kendra (18:51)

Then I'll buy, like, other cute, like, Little bunny.

Jill (18:53)

Have you heard of that sound like the total cost to own, Right?

Jen (18:57)

Yeah. What. What could this be replaced by? Because we don't just want to remove something and deprive ourselves of something. Anytime we want to shift an old behavior, we've got to find something new. What feels realistic for you to kind of grasp onto whenever you do want to go to Bell's, for example?

Kendra (19:17)

Probably just go in my own closet and just make a new outfit.

Jill (19:21)

Yeah. It doesn't have to be acquiring new things.

Kendra (19:25)

Well, I think a part of like Bells is like, it's close to thrifting, and I know that I can get in and out, but like, when I go thrifting, it's going to take longer time because I do enjoy it. But then, well, the kids are at school, then I have to go pick them up. So I'm like, well, at least Bell's is like cheap. It's kind of along thrifting. And I know that I can get out and still, like, do other stuff for my day before I go to the kids.

Jill (19:48)

It's part of the marketing. It's that it's. It's easy to find something to buy, but if we want to accumulate fewer things and be kinder to the earth, it's better for us to choose those places that may be more difficult to go home with things.

Kendra (20:04)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jen (20:06)

And I'd be curious, too, the circumstances in which it's kind of I want something quick to do, like it's before I'm picking the kids up, or I just want something for myself. If there's even other activities that feel life giving to you. Like, I wonder if part of that habit has to do with this. Just feels good. It feels comforting. It's familiar.

Jill (20:29)

Dopamine, quick. Dopamine hit.

Jen (20:31)

Yeah. If there's something else that could be done that's quick, that is without the kids in between some of these other activities that kind of provide something similar to you. So I. I don't know what that would be. And that might be kind of your own brainstorming process, but we know some of the things that provide dopamine include play, whether that's with a friend, an actual kind of game, or like sports or a board game, or watching a funny video or just getting outside and breathing fresh air or eating food high in protein. There's so many different things that can kind of provide that burst for us that isn't us spending money. And again, it's not about the spending money because you're not overextending. Yourself here. But it sounds like wanting to make those better decisions that you feel really good about.

Jill (21:24)

Take one of those blankets that you own under a tree and play a.

Kendra (21:28)

Game on your phone.

Jill (21:29)

No, it can be really easy.

Kendra (21:31)

Like, do we live in Florida?

Jill (21:32)

Do I take if it's under a tree in January? If it's in the shade, take the.

Jen (21:40)

Blanket and take apart.

Jill (21:41)

You want to stay. You want it to be quick. You're not going to be on there for long.

Kendra (21:46)

Yeah. And I think actually that's a very good point because it's like after my shift ends with the client that might have like 45 minutes before I go pick up the boys, I'm not going to go home and start cleaning or like food prepping. Do I want to go to the grocery store? No, because then all those overhead lights, I'm like, oh, no, thank you. Do I get a book? Like what? Oh, like it is fun to just peruse. So maybe I just go to thrift stores and peruse instead. But I don't really want stuff. I think it's just something to do.

Jill (22:13)

You can also go to the library. I mean, peruse the library. Because then you have to return that. And if you end up taking something back when you return a book, you gotta return that too.

Kendra (22:24)

Yeah.

Jen (22:24)

As you know, this is one of the things that we talk about in our book. The top reasons that we impulse spend and one of them is the thrill of the hunt. I can relate to that one. It's one of the reasons that I like thrift stores so much. But if that is it, then then finding something that matches that, what else could provide a little bit of that, that hunt, that search, that uncovering and discovering things. For me, I don't know what's going to stick for you, but for me, some of that has been finding fun accounts on Instagram to follow that might help support my goals. So whether it's finding low waste accounts or fun easy recipe accounts. So it doesn't mean that I am currently about to go meal prep, but it does mean I'm searching and hunting for fun recipes that are inspiring me.

Jill (23:14)

Or.

Jen (23:15)

Yeah, like.

Jill (23:16)

Or sending me funny videos. Yeah, my favorite thing that you do.

Kendra (23:21)

The funny videos. Yeah.

Jen (23:22)

Hunting at the library. You know, by looking for things that will give us.

Kendra (23:27)

Oh, I love the library. We go.

Jen (23:29)

Yeah, yeah, this is a little bit longer. But even something like geocaching, I know that kind of blew up like 10 years ago. That might be something more to do with the kids. Um, but that's a really fun activity. That is fully free, gets you outside, and provides a little bit of that scavenger.

Kendra (23:48)

I don't know what that is.

Jill (23:49)

Oh, fun fact. Travis proposed in a geocache. Yeah. So things we like to do together.

Jen (23:56)

It's essentially kind of a community scavenger hunt where people will place various types of things. It could just be a painted rock. It could be like a time capsule.

Jill (24:06)

It could just be a list of names that you. You signed your name at the bottom.

Jen (24:10)

Of various place public places like around the city and place the coordinates of where this thing is. And you have to go find where that is, look for the item, and kind of contribute your own thing to it.

Jill (24:27)

It's treasure hunting.

Kendra (24:27)

That's fun.

Jen (24:28)

Yeah, it's very fun. Yeah.

Jill (24:30)

Geocaching. There's an app for that.

Kendra (24:32)

Okay.

Jen (24:33)

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Jill (24:50)

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Kendra (26:34)

Oh man.

Jen (26:35)

I am Jones in for some of this health and fitness things.

Jill (26:39)

Yes. So there was quite a bit spent on health and different types. So what is the mindset around having so many different types of opportunities to be healthy?

Kendra (26:59)

I think I'm like searching. So I am coming out of my postpartum depression. It's probably been gone say like close to two years. And so I've been really focusing on like my mental health and I'm just tired of feeling like sad and depressed a lot. So I was like I need to make these changes. I want to do it for me. It's preventing me from mothering how I want to. So I was like what are some things? And I know moving my body is helpful. So I have a membership to a yoga studio that I love. Like that's like a non negotiable for me. I started seeing a chiropractor and that has helped my physical body feel better. Right. So if I'm not in as much pain, hopefully I'll have more patience. And then just like my mental health life coach, counselor person. She's expensive. I never thought that I would invest that much money. But I am glad I'm saying the word invest versus saying like wasting money. It's definitely not a waste. It is a lot of money that I put, we have put into her. But the value I have received from her is like there's no financial, it's not worthless. It's priceless.

Jen (28:15)

Work.

Kendra (28:15)

Yes. Yeah.

Jen (28:16)

How long have you been working with that person?

Kendra (28:19)

Close to two years.

Jen (28:20)

Okay.

Kendra (28:20)

So when I look back and I'm like, well I've given her like how much money? Like that's a real like because I don't even spend $5 on a cup of coffee for myself.

Jill (28:29)

An investment for sure in the time you need it.

Kendra (28:32)

Right.

Jill (28:32)

But also I think sometimes we can have a sunk cost feeling. Whereas she did so much for me. I can never stop seeing her even if I'm better and I don't and I'm like moving on to something else.

Kendra (28:46)

Yeah.

Jill (28:47)

Like having a guilt.

Kendra (28:48)

Yeah.

Jill (28:49)

If we don't if we're in the next season. And, you know, we kind of graduated. Feeling guilty for leaving. And I'm not saying that's where you are right now, but it could be.

Kendra (29:02)

No, I definitely went through that. And I actually talked to her, I think, last month, and I was like, I'm feeling good. We. I was seeing her three times a month. I was like, I think we can go down to, like, once a month and see how that goes. And that feels like I've, like, graduated, too, that I. I'm not just needing her to talk to, but now I have, like, I have more confidence in myself. I have more trust in myself that I can, like, talk to you do this, talk to some of my other friends where I would have been too embarrassed to talk about whatever's going on in my head to share that. And so, yeah, it's not a sunk cost, but it does hurt my. My gut a little bit when I'm like, oh, my gosh, we put that much money in, you know, but again, it is priceless.

Jen (29:44)

So where do you say you generally land on that? Because I am hearing both. Like, sometimes it feels like a gut punch. Like, oh, man, I'm spending a whole lot on this. But I. I would spend that over and over again. Where do you think you. You. You mostly lean as you look at those numbers.

Kendra (30:02)

I'm leaning towards I am valuable and I am worth it. And putting that money into my mental health is worth it.

Jen (30:11)

Yeah.

Jill (30:11)

So you'd rather put it into this than shopping.

Kendra (30:15)

Correct. Okay.

Jen (30:16)

I. I do want to take a moment to highlight what is being said here because I do think it's important for, like, any potential listeners as it relates to specifically, like, therapy and mental health. I don't know if that's exactly what this. This person is, but the point is never to coming from someone who was a therapist at one point, to meet with clients forever and always, like, it should be a goal that this relationship will no longer be needed eventually, and we can find other alternatives for you to be able to find what you need both inside yourself as well as within the community to reach out for those different resources and not have it coming from that one source. So I think this is kind of a. A call for keeping a pulse on if your therapist or counselor is kind of encouraging you to stay with them and never leave, that's a red flag. If you've never had kind of exit conversations or how this will eventually wrap up where we are going in this therapeutic relationship, that's a red flag. And if you are in a point. Point where you feel like, I will never be able to survive without this person, that's something to talk with the therapist about. And so knowing that there should be an end in sight, not that we will never need therapy again, but that there's only so far certain types of care can take us, and recognizing when we've kind of reached that point, what we can then move into, what can we replace it with? So I think it's a. It's a valuable conversation. It's encouraging to hear that you've talked with her about this and that she has agreed and even that tapering off is important too, rather than the hard stop with these types of things.

Kendra (32:07)

Oh, and I felt horrible bringing up the conversation. Oh, guilty. You know, like, yeah, somebody who's done.

Jill (32:13)

So much for you to talk about and to bring up the subject of leaving, like, it's not anything negative you've done.

Kendra (32:21)

Right.

Jill (32:22)

You know, but it is something therapists are taught in school and should be bringing up.

Kendra (32:29)

Yes.

Jill (32:30)

But there is a money, like convoluted. Like, they also don't want to lose their income, but if they're serving you.

Jen (32:37)

Well, then they're going to be mostly pleased to see you move on. What you've learned with you.

Kendra (32:44)

Yeah. Yeah. Did that answer your fitness and health questions or did some.

Jill (32:50)

Yeah, I mean, so I think it's definitely seeing that. Yes, you are spending a lot on fitness and health. So I think leaning more into that than the shopping might be the way you want to move forward. You know, Obviously you have 45 minutes. You're not going to do. Maybe you're not going to do a quick workout, but you could. You can get a lot done in 30 minutes.

Kendra (33:19)

Yeah.

Jill (33:20)

You know, but so, yeah, I think focusing when you need that dopamine, hit on the ways that you're stating you want to increase your dopamine, not poor excuses. I. E. Like acquisition. Dopamine is definitely something to consider.

Kendra (33:40)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jen (33:42)

And, you know, thank you for sharing about kind of what you went through post having kids. I know that a lot of people deal with that and not a lot of people talk about it. And it can be really tough to know how to navigate those circumstances. What is even going to help? Sometimes it can feel like, is there even any help for me? Like, this might have worked for that person, but isn't going to work for me. And I think sometimes in those circumstances, I don't know if this was your situation, but we can then just try to collect all of the things, and that's worthwhile. Let me throw spaghetti at the wall and try some things to see if I can move myself out of this circumstance. So kudos to you for finding some of those resources, but then being able to come to a point and say, do I still need all of these resources? Are they all still serving me and benefiting me in the same way that they had in the past? Again, could be connected to some of that sunk cost. Like, do I need two gym memberships and a coach? Or is it possible that now I've kind of understood, I followed the rules, now I can break the rules and I can kind of choose other ways, or now I understand the things that, you know, this gym has taught me, and I'm able to find alternatives to it. So that's maybe another thing to kind of keep in mind. And not for deprivation, but just for. Do I need all of it all at once?

Jill (35:10)

Yeah. Make sure we're keeping the highest quality so that we get the most value out of it.

Kendra (35:15)

Yeah.

Jill (35:16)

Yeah. All right, let's. There. We don't have. We have maybe 15 minutes left.

Jen (35:25)

Okay. So kids, Kids.

Kendra (35:28)

Okay.

Jen (35:28)

Tell us what your impression of spending on your children is.

Kendra (35:35)

I don't even understand that question.

Jen (35:38)

How do you approach spending on your kids? What's. What's your understanding of.

Jill (35:42)

It is the third largest expense behind food and health on the inventory?

Kendra (35:48)

I think activities. We get a lot of hand me down clothes. Thankfully, we have older cousins, and I'm not really. I don't really care. They pick out their own clothes. So I was like, whatever you want to wear. Sometimes when I do my Bells outlet, I'm like, oh, they like the athletic shirt. They have matching shirts. I was like, I have to get them to match. They're 6 and 8. But I want them to have, like, exposure to life and like, more culture and I think so that's where some of the money can go is to get sunk into, like a camp. But when you have two and the camp is already like 150, now you're spending $300. Right. And so that's what I'm noticing as we come up to summer anyways. Like these summer camps, all of them are like. A lot of them are amazing. I was like, it is. Some of them are like $300.

Jill (36:37)

Yeah. That's why I'm gonna be a stay at home parent this summer.

Kendra (36:40)

Yeah. And I want to have that patience to be with them, but I also feel like they can learn so much from other people. Sure. And so the experience of Staying with me and how, like, figuring out how I want the summer to look and organizing my work schedule, all that. So, like, they're going to go to the Tampa Bay Watch 1, which I think is going to be great. They're worried about starfish, so it's going to be like, that's. I was like, this is an investment. So I think. I don't know, it's just hard because I want them to have all this exposure. But with that, that can cost money.

Jill (37:17)

Well, it's not just money, too. It's also having. Having a childhood where you never stop moving. You're always doing something through the week, you're always doing something through the summer. And that creates adults who believe they can never stop moving. And they're just going. They then are spending their own money to keep doing, you know, bar after restaurant after bowling, golf, whatever men do. So, like, it goes over or it goes the opposite way. Like, and they totally go on the other thing and they're like, I just want to do nothing.

Kendra (37:55)

Yeah.

Jill (37:56)

So there is something to be said for a balance because your. Your kids do sports throughout the week. Yeah.

Jen (38:04)

Nice. That's the parameter.

Jill (38:06)

But which also impacts, like, how many times a week you can cook at home. But that one sport is several times a week. Yeah. So, like, it's like multiple things a week.

Kendra (38:18)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jill (38:20)

So, yeah, that truly impacts, like, having a season of rest also is really important for kids. And allowing kids to be bored.

Kendra (38:28)

I do. I do love that.

Jill (38:29)

Allowing kids to be bored is really powerful for their imagination, for their creativity. If somebody's always telling them what to do or teaching them something new, they never get to be creative for themselves.

Kendra (38:44)

I think I take their whining and their constant asking for screen time. I don't, like, handle that well. So I try to avoid that. And that's why we schedule out a lot. So, like, I know where my flaw is in that, and I want to get better, because I do. I like, boredom is great. I was like, if you ask for screen time one more time in a whiny voice when you've. I've already laid out, like, we've already had our hour or whatever it is before. And not that screens are bad. It's just like, I want you to be bored. I want you to get creative. Right. If you want to be on YouTube and watch how to, like, do a cooking video, sure, let's do that. Like, that's creative. But I know that's not what they want. I know it is.

Jill (39:21)

I. And I have that My son is always whining about playing a video game or watching YouTube. And it is something where I just have to be like, you already had your time.

Kendra (39:31)

Yeah.

Jill (39:31)

And some days I am not that mom. Some days I'm like, yeah, sitting there all night, please.

Kendra (39:37)

Right.

Jill (39:38)

But other times, most of the time I like to think I am absorbing the whining and I'm just letting it roll off. Or maybe not absorbing it, but I'm letting it roll off of me. And just accepting that is childhood. Kids whine, especially when you're doing something good for them. That's when they whine the most. That's how you know you're doing a good job.

Kendra (40:00)

That takes practice and that is hard for me. So. But I recognize it. My first step is recognizing or acknowledging, then recognizing, whatever.

Jen (40:07)

And now just gotta practice it still on the kids. So $2,000 on Ninja Academy in the last 90 days. How, how have you seen that benefit them?

Kendra (40:21)

Was that at the same time as baseball? Sure is. Sure is.

Jen (40:26)

When we're not shaming, we're listening and we're not.

Jill (40:28)

Well, you just said they only do one thing at a time and it's.

Kendra (40:31)

Their after school care. So they pick them up from school.

Jen (40:35)

I'm thinking they're learning how to be ninjas.

Kendra (40:37)

I would love that. However, I can't do that because we leave for school at like 8:15. Mac's class is at 5:15 and then Crosby's class is at 6:15. So that means they're not getting home until like 7:30, 30 being gone. I was like, we can't do that three days a week. That's too long of a day because then it's like you always have to be busy. Right. And so it is still after school care. But we pick them up now at 5 so they're not even doing that ninja class. So you could.

Jill (41:04)

So now that you've identified that gap, like you could pick a less expensive correct or more accommodating something that has actual enrichment during the times that you're going to be there.

Jen (41:16)

Yeah, I have wondered too, kind of along the lines of going back to you still having some guilt associated with spending money. I think sometimes I'd be curious if this is your circumstance. For parents, it's harder to spend on self without guilt, but then easier to just spend whatever on the kids. Like I do want to spend money so I can justify it by buying this for the kids. Well, it's fine that I went to Bells because I bought clothes for the kids. Like it's fine that I spent this money because I bought it for the kids and now they've got an activity and they're not on the screens. Like that can kind of lead to its own issue of spending that might not even be that values aligned just because it provides that justification. So. Yeah. I'm curious if any of that is there for you.

Kendra (42:09)

Oh, yeah. I think a lot of that is like, well, I did a good job. I didn't go to Belle's Outlet today, but I did buy that, you know, spend like $300 on a camp or whatever. And I was like, it get. It does. I think it's that dopamine fix. And then it just. It's justified because it's on the kids and it gives them the exposure that I want for them.

Jill (42:30)

Yeah. It is hard because you do want them. Like, if I had the disposable income to do something like that, then absolutely I would do it. But also, like, what is the. What's the line between, like, what is healthy? What is just a cheap dopamine hit for me, you know, So I. I think about that all the time in. In smaller doses. So maybe not with camps, but just like in smaller areas.

Kendra (43:02)

Yeah.

Jill (43:03)

And it's hard to navigate. And I think you get it right. If you get it right, at least half the time you're doing a good job. I don't think you'll ever get it right every time.

Kendra (43:12)

So.

Jill (43:14)

Sorry.

Kendra (43:15)

Yeah.

Jill (43:18)

The end.

Kendra (43:18)

Yeah. Just get a dopamine hit, I think.

Jen (43:21)

So in this category with spending on kids, what would you want to see for yourself?

Kendra (43:29)

I am grateful that we do have the income to be able to spend it on these camps. I don't know how much I would change outside of myself. Just wanting to have more patience. I don't want to say patience. I wish I had more of the desire to research and then we go on excursions together and spend money together instead of me just pushing the kids off to have that exposure without me. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Jen (44:01)

Like for you to be a part of the experiences too. The money spent is also for you.

Kendra (44:06)

Correct.

Jill (44:07)

This is three days a week. Right. The after school care.

Kendra (44:11)

Oh, yeah. I guess I was just thinking like summer camps, but.

Jill (44:13)

Okay. Summer camps are. Summer is a lot.

Kendra (44:17)

Yeah, it's.

Jill (44:18)

Yeah, it's a lot. But yeah, I think it would be worth sitting down. Something that we. That Travis and I do is that once a year we'll sit down and we'll kind of look through, or I will look through and he will sit there and go through kind of all the events and the things that have happened in the past year in St. Pete, kind of assuming that they'll happen again. We call it an annual family plan. And we kind of map out things we want to do each month of the coming year. So we're kind of prepared, we know what to look for. We actually, in our annual finance planner, have a spreadsheet for an annual family plan and one for an annual kid plan. So we do the same thing that is like family oriented or maybe more adult oriented for the kids thing, like kid events that have happened in the past year. Or if there's something we really like an event or something that costs money, we'll take note of that so that we can make sure that we include that in our budget for the month. And they don't always do the things they did in the past year, you know, the next year, but like nine times out of 10, they're just doing the same things over and over. And it can help us plan. And it is one research session and then we don't have to think about.

Jen (45:41)

It the rest of the year.

Kendra (45:42)

That's a good idea. Yeah.

Jen (45:44)

That mental load can be a lot. If you feel like you need to constantly be looking for the fun, creative idea to do, but rather having more like a list when you do have maybe a block of time to give to this and maybe time frames so that you can just reference back to that list. Okay, what's available? What can I do so it doesn't require something of you every single time?

Kendra (46:09)

And that's what I do is like the mental load is what stops me from doing that.

Jen (46:14)

Yeah.

Jill (46:15)

Having something that's like, okay, these things are annual. We want to do this in this month. These things happen monthly, definitely. If we're looking for something to do, you know, look up these and stuff like that. It can take a lot of mental load having that.

Jen (46:30)

That's something we talked about in one of our money moves. If you follow us at Weekly Money move on Instagram, we have one about creating even just a free resources list, which you're talking about. Not necessarily. It doesn't always need to be free, like willing to pay for these things and invest in that. But even having opportunities to create free resource lists through our email list, having that as a search function and always readily available of what is happening, what's coming up for free. So even our viewers check that out to learn how to create your own free resource list. Trying to keep your spending in check while still eating well, thrive Market is an online membership based grocery store that brings high quality grocery groceries right to your door with savings on every order. It's perfect for anyone who wants to save money, spend less and still get trusted brands like Rows and Chomps. Thrive Market helps make healthy meal prep and snack planning easy so your mornings feel less chaotic. Everything arrives fast. Clean snacks, pantry staples, even supplements. Go to thrivemarket.com podcast and get 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift. Imagine being on a vacation for a very long time. Now imagine saving money nightly while you do it. Sounds pretty great, right?

Kendra (47:46)

With vrbo's long stay discounts you can.

Jen (47:49)

Stay longer and save more. Our customers save an average of 10% when they book select properties for a week or longer. Just in case you needed another reason to extend that vacation book the Perfect Summer Getaway Today with VRBO Private Vacation Rentals. Your future self will think thank you later. One other thing I want to mention and part of this has to do with our knowledge before we even hit record, but I think too a key in decreasing guilt and shame and moving out of some scarcity mindset finding permission to spend money has to do with awareness of our finances. So you had shared with us before we began that this isn't something that you look at too, too regularly, like how how often you're spending in these different places or where all of the money is going. And what we have found over and over and over again is that when we don't look at it, when we're not aware of it, the thing becomes bigger in our heads, it becomes scarier and hairier and, and we don't want to touch it. And in reality what most of us find when we do look at it is it's not as bad as I thought and or it's it's kind of in line with, with what I was thinking. Or I actually could do more here and yeah, this is revealing how I want to do less here and I've got other ideas of what to do instead. And so for that reason, and I'm not saying oh you've got to do a 90 day transaction inventory constantly, but potentially having a more regular pulse on where you're spending, how much you're spending could help you to find that permission to say oh that's great, that's right in line with the amount that I wanted to spend this past week or this past month. And that is paired with defining our enough being able to set some of these limits on those things of I would love to go to the thrift store and give myself a hundred bucks a month, no problem, guilt free, because I know I have it. And that type of shopping aligns with the values that I said that I have. So then it's. I'm not going to say that that's going to be the magic trick for you, but it is one of those keys when that's the specific thing that we're struggling with is actually having a pulse on it. Because otherwise it's like I don't even know. I feel like it's out of whack. I think I went to the store a bunch of times. I don't even know what my goal is for how often I'm going to the store. So actually sett these things and then tracking where am I at with it? What adjustments do I want to be making here could be really helpful in you long term feeling really great about how you're spending money. Does that sound realistic for you?

Kendra (50:42)

It sounds realistic. I think why I don't is like I'm always writing that line of having old patterns or old thoughts obsessively take over. And so when I'm looking at it more regularly, I'm afraid I'm just going to like run back to scarcity.

Jill (51:02)

And so I think when you're seeing that you do have enough, I think that's my fear.

Kendra (51:09)

I haven't practiced it yet. Right. So it's easier for me to just pretend or be oblivious.

Jen (51:17)

Yeah.

Kendra (51:17)

And I recognize that's like a very privileged thing for me to say. I just like hate that feeling of money. Honestly, I just don't have a good, like it's always kind of been a negative, like something held over my head a lot as a kid. And then so it just is like I don't want to interact with it. So that's where I feel like I need to change my relationship. So what you suggested sounds realistic. It is just jumping over that line of fear and knowing I'm walking into a space that's going to be hard to feel. And I don't know how long it's going to be like that. So the repetitiveness of like putting myself in a position where I feel gross. Right. Like disgruntled or not even. No, that's not the last word.

Jill (52:04)

But just like how was it held over your head as a child?

Kendra (52:14)

Go ask your mom for money. Here, I'm paying for it. Go ask your dad for money. He's not doing anything. There was like my parents did not have a very healthy relationship and unfortunately some Things because we live with my mom and because they didn't get along. Money was held back because we lived with her. And so like, I don't want to speak ill will of my dad. I think it's just like who he was at the time. He's not that same person. But it was like, I can't ask this parent because AR is going to tell me to go ask this parent. And then this parent's like, well, I'm paying child support, so you need to go back to there. And I was like, I just need a new pair of jeans. I'm growing. My waist doesn't fit. So then I'm just like. So I'm just going to go in my little corner and pretend it's not there. And it's just as always, like, it just has felt ill. Yeah. To be with money around money.

Jill (53:09)

How do you think your boys will learn money from you?

Kendra (53:13)

Hopefully just from Chad.

Jill (53:17)

I mean, you know, it won't be.

Kendra (53:18)

Yeah. So like working with my counselor too, I used to only shop Bogos and because like that's where you get the deal, right. And like, am I the type of person that only shops bogos and that's how I stock my house or do I go in with a list of food because I've gone through, made recipes or, you know, found the recipes. So just like even figuring out what type of grocery shopper I am has been helpful. So now I'm not saying to the boys, we can't get that. That's not on sale. Because if that's something that you really want and you value that, we can't.

Jill (53:50)

Get it because we can't get it.

Kendra (53:55)

Right. So like as my counselor pointed out, she's like, you're just bringing in all your childhood and putting it right into your kids faces. And I was like, I don't want to do that. And so she's like, all you have to say is like, no.

Jill (54:08)

Yeah.

Kendra (54:09)

Not because it's not on sale or whatever. And finally, I don't. Do you guys know what sumo oranges are?

Jill (54:13)

Yeah.

Kendra (54:14)

Top five favorite things in my life.

Jen (54:15)

Okay.

Kendra (54:16)

And they're ridiculously expensive. It's like 299. No, it's probably like $2.99 for one. I surprised it didn't show up in here. I could easily say I spent probably $400 on this.

Jen (54:28)

Isn't it just orange as you think?

Kendra (54:30)

I love. But if you buy eight, that's like 30 bucks. Right. So like adds up. And I'm eating them once a Day I'm giving myself cankers.

Jen (54:39)

I was gonna say you're probably getting sore.

Jill (54:42)

It's not a healthy relationship per se.

Kendra (54:44)

But I like gave myself the freedom to be like, who cares how expensive it is? You love them. Right. And that's what I want for my kids to just be like, okay, so I'm spending more money on sumo oranges than just like. Cause that's what I want, that's what I value.

Jill (54:58)

Well, you want them to have that ideation in theory, but it also has to align with their income.

Kendra (55:06)

Yeah.

Jill (55:06)

If they don't choose high income professions, then they may not be able to buy all the things that they love.

Kendra (55:13)

Yeah.

Jill (55:14)

And so it behooves you to have some kind of system for how you buy things that you can teach your children so that you can teach them how to prioritize the things that they love. Because in college you're not going to be spending $30 on sumo oranges for them. They're going to live like we all do as broke college students because it is a rite of passage, not because we have to. And they're going to be better off learning a system and you're going to be better at teaching them if you have your own system. And it does not have to be the same system that everybody else is. You don't have to have a strict budget. But knowing being in touch with your finances and saying, okay, I spent this money on this stuff last month. How did it make me feel? Did it get me what I wanted? Did I, could I have put more money toward my retirement and how would have that had made me feel? Or am I intentionally not doing that? Asking yourself these questions as just guiding lights into the next month can be really valuable even if you don't want. Because I know like myself too, like budgets don't do well for me because I also have a scarcity. Like I'll either spend, I'll see a limit and that limit will say don't spend anything or once I like hit the limit, it's like, whatever, just spend it all. Like it's just really weird mind thing. So if you don't want to start there, just start with these check in questions every month.

Jen (56:56)

And if I could also add, this is quite a journey that you're describing and it sounds like you've already made significant strides in aiming at health here. I mean, you're here and you are looking at it despite some of the background that you've described and this relationship with money that just doesn't feel good. Healthy, beneficial. That has led to some avoidance. But if I can encourage you in that avoidance will only lead to more fear and anxiety about it.

Jill (57:30)

So.

Jen (57:30)

And I can understand the fear of looking at it, right? That's, that's a real thing and it's what keeps a lot of us from moving forward. But what actually happens is when we look at it and we're able to bring in new helpful patterns, our fear and anxiety about the thing does decrease. And part of moving forward, finding health in previous traumatic circumstances, difficult circumstances, unhelpful circumstances, is finding a different pattern in it, showing ourselves the opposite of that experience. It's not avoiding that experience. And that's a complete misconception when it comes to this idea of triggers. And then we use that word a lot like that triggers me. And we think that must mean I should avoid it. No, sorry, hate to break it to you, triggers aren't always meant to be avoided. They're meant to be worked through so that they don't become that anxiety producing, fear encompassing thing, but to show ourselves at different experience with it. So to look at the thing head on, but identify what can I weave in that's going to be different from my previous experiences. So some of that can include some of those kind questions. Being able to even have some simple bullet pointed journal prompts next to some of these transactions as they happen, or even a week, ending your week with some reflection questions of how did it feel to look at my spending and how did it align with my values? What good thing can I say about the ways in which I'm interacting with money and decisions that I'm making? You will start to form new patterns. There will be new neural pathways that begin to connect in that circumstance where it's not what it used to be. You've shown yourself the opposite of the negative experience. And new relationships and patterns start to form with your money decision. So I know that it's a process. Again, you're not going to just be there, but I'm hoping that that can be encouraging to you, encouraging to other people that avoiding it is what makes it grow, not looking at it and introducing health to it.

Kendra (59:52)

I agree, avoidance is my comfort zone and I know we can only grow outside of our comfort zone.

Jen (60:00)

Yeah, but again, you have come a long way and yeah, there's more to be done here, but mostly for you to be able to experience that freedom and permission in being able to allow your spending to match up with not only what you have available to you, but also the things that matter most to you and not be dragging around like the guilt and shame when it comes to the different spending. And I know fear is not a good motivator and that's not entirely my, my purpose in saying this. It's why I led with the other thing. But I also feel like this does need to be said because I think a lot of people find themselves here, especially for us women, not wanting to look at the thing, choosing avoidance but at some point in life being fully responsible for the financial decision. So I'm thrilled to hear that Chad is managing money well. Good job Chad. That he's setting up weekly automations to savings. Well done Chad. He's teaching your voice about money.

Kendra (61:06)

Hey.

Jen (61:06)

Oh Chad. But statistically speaking it'll be Kendra probably one of these days.

Kendra (61:16)

Yep.

Jill (61:17)

The more complex the financial situation gets, when it's at its most complex, it will become you.

Jen (61:26)

And so even being able to set yourself up now so that it's not so overwhelmingly scary when you're 60, 70, 80 years old. Kendra's gonna live to like 120 probably.

Jill (61:40)

With all this fitness, this health going health expenses. You gotta hope if Chad's not spending.

Jen (61:48)

The same amount on his health then you for sure are going to be responsible for the money entirely at some point. So again that's not to let fear guide you but I think knowledge can be really helpful there to know that I might even not of my own choice or volition need to know what's going on here and have to look at it. So better to build the muscles now, better to have the mobility here that it doesn't have to mean that it's entirely a responsibility now. But a few more check ins, a little bit more awareness, a few more of these healthy questions that are going to allow you more confidence in these things can behoove, you can behoove all of us.

Jill (62:33)

So I think that's a really great takeaway to wrap up with. Did you have any other takeaways that you're going to move forward with?

Kendra (62:41)

Well, you said a lot of good stuff. I'm probably going to rewatch it. But I appreciate you Jen saying that I am going to have some influence on my boys when it comes to financial stuff. I guess I always just assumed it was going to only be Chad because he's good at it, he likes it, he enjoys being in, in that realm and I don't. So I assumed I would just take a back seat and they would probably look at me and be like oh mom, it's like worthless, you know, in.

Jen (63:11)

Like a kind way but can you call someone worthless?

Kendra (63:16)

But no. You're a chill. Yeah. Yeah but I don't want to represent myself as sorry like I am like.

Jill (63:24)

A strong like woman too and intelligent college educated work.

Kendra (63:29)

Yeah.

Jill (63:29)

Woman I don't want to make wearing.

Jen (63:31)

A dope dress from Bell.

Kendra (63:33)

Yeah.

Jen (63:33)

Outlet.

Jill (63:34)

Yeah.

Kendra (63:35)

It does make a difference.

Jill (63:36)

It will also influence how they act with whoever they end up with as partners in the future too. How they manage money together is how you and Chad manage money together.

Kendra (63:49)

So yeah, I guess I didn't. Couldn't step outside myself to see that. So thank you for pointing that out.

Jen (63:56)

Nice. Thanks for being here.

Kendra (63:58)

Yeah. Thank you.

Jen (63:59)

This is so vulnerable. You've shared so much.

Kendra (64:04)

Is here ready?

Jen (64:07)

We're so glad that you entrusted us with this and we are cheering you on in just getting better and better and more confident.

Kendra (64:16)

Thank you.

Jill (64:19)

Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.