Frugal Friends Podcast

Episode: The Best Debt Payoff Strategy – Debt Avalanche vs Debt Snowball

Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Date: December 5, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the longstanding debate: "What is the best strategy to pay off debt—Debt Avalanche or Debt Snowball?" Hosts Jen and Jill discuss the mechanics, psychology, and real-world implications of both approaches, sharing their own payoff journeys and insights from their financial coaching experiences. They stress the importance of finding a personalized, sustainable plan (even a hybrid!) over adhering to black-and-white “expert” rules. Ultimately, the message is about individualized motivation, the “radical middle,” and sticking through the hard early months of debt repayment to achieve lasting freedom.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Debt Avalanche vs Debt Snowball Debate

• Debt Avalanche:

  • Pay off debts with the highest interest rate first.
  • Pro: Saves the most money on interest over the long term.
  • Con: Can feel slow and less motivating, especially if high-interest debts aren't small balances.

  "The goal here primarily is to save as much money as possible on your interest... But the con that people poke in this is that it can feel slower."
  —Jill (05:20)

• Debt Snowball:

  • Pay off debts with the smallest balance first.
  • Pro: Gives quick psychological wins; immediate gratification supports motivation.
  • Con: May cost (slightly) more in interest if highest-interest debts aren’t smallest.

  "Our brain prefers to have immediate gratification and that is a way that you can get it when you are entering into this hard journey."
  —Jen (06:49)

• The Real Debate:

  • The difference between strategies is often minor (hundreds, not thousands, of dollars).
  • The biggest determinant of success is sticking with any plan—not the plan itself.

  "In every situation I have run, the difference between Debt Avalanche and Debt Snowball is only a couple hundred dollars... The real debate is sticking with a debt payoff strategy."
  —Jen (07:47)

2. Personal Stories and Hybrid Strategies

• Jen and her husband combined both methods: focusing on higher-interest loans for long-term savings but knocking out small loans inside those groups for motivation (a “hybrid”).

• For most people, especially with typical debts, credit cards are usually both smallest and highest interest, so start there.

  "So we did this hybrid of... quick wins, we still had short term goals, but we were tackling the overall highest debt."
  —Jen (10:25)

• Key Tip: Focus on paying off one group or loan at a time for best results—singular focus equals better momentum.

  "I would say the biggest tip based on the strategy is to focus on one thing at a time."
  —Jen (12:01)

3. Minimum Payments & Allocation of Extra Money

• Always pay minimums on all debts—extra money goes toward your targeted payoff debt.

• The debate is about where to send any surplus from side hustles, windfalls, or spending cuts.

  "We're talking about additional payments when we are really going hard at... optimize whatever excess money I do have. Where do I throw that money?"
  —Jill (12:28)

4. Choosing the Best Strategy for You

• Types of People:

  • Analytical/Patient/Optimizer: Will do well with Avalanche for interest savings.
  • Emotionally-Driven/Needs Momentum: Will prefer Snowball for psychological wins.
  • Burnout/Inconsistent Approach: Hybrid may work—start with Snowball, then switch to Avalanche.

  "If you are analytical, patient, logical—the avalanche, that's going to be for you... Whereas if you are a little bit more emotionally driven... Snowball, Snowball."
  —Jill (16:44; 17:50)

  "If you know that you are currently in a state of burnout... hybrid might be good. So you could start with a snowball, get some of those quick wins, but then switch to an avalanche."
  —Jill (18:18)

5. Simulations and Real-World Numbers

• Using median U.S. debt numbers, Jen demonstrates that Avalanche saves ~$430 and takes 7 months less than Snowball on a typical $36,000 debt scenario with a $280 monthly surplus.

• But: Snowball provides faster early wins; critical if debts are pay-off-able in under three months.

  "Total for the snowball is 74 months compared to 67 months of the Avalanche. And you pay a total of $4,630 in interest—$430 more... seven extra months and $430 more to do the snowball."
  —Jen (25:27)

6. Motivation and the Importance of the First 3–6 Months

• Most people drop off in the first three months if progress isn’t visible; sticking it out to six months makes debt freedom almost inevitable.

  "The first three months is the hardest... When you're not seeing any change in the first three months, it's so hard to keep going."
  —Jen (27:05)

  "I am convinced if you make it to the six month mark, you will become debt free."
  —Jen (27:19)

• The hosts announce their 90-Day Debt Freedom Fast Track to support listeners through this crucial period.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Debt Strategy Extremes

  "For so long, gurus have made their living on making an enemy out of something... villainizing something that is helpful is really unhealthy."
  —Jen (02:44)

• On Sticking to the Plan

  "Your debt payoff success comes down less to which strategy you choose—Debt Avalanche, Debt Snowball. Your success comes at how singular your focus is."
  —Jen (35:30)

• Motivational Challenge

  "There's a call that you need to make, isn't there? And you've been avoiding it maybe for three years... Make it. Make the call."
  —Jen (39:26)

Listener “Bill of the Week” Highlight:

Kate calls in to share how she called The New Yorker for a teacher’s discount, saving $95 on her subscription (37:58).

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:20 — Jen & Jill’s personal payoff journeys
• 05:18 — Explaining Debt Avalanche
• 06:16 — Explaining Debt Snowball
• 07:47 — Actual cost differences (Avalanche vs Snowball: only hundreds of dollars)
• 10:25 — Jen’s hybrid payoff story
• 13:28 — Minimum payments and surplus strategy
• 16:44 — Picking the method for your personality type
• 18:32 — When hybrid methods may work best
• 19:43 — Running real-world numbers (simulations)
• 25:27 — Summary: Actual timeline/interest difference between Snowball and Avalanche
• 27:05 — Why the first 3 months are critical for motivation
• 29:20 — Advocating for the radical middle
• 31:26 — Announcing the 90-Day Debt Freedom Fast Track
• 37:58 — Bill of the Week: Kate saves $95
• 41:59 — Lightning Round: Coping when progress feels slow

Actionable Tips & “Radical Middle” Takeaways

• The best debt strategy is the one you stick with.
• Analyze your own motivations—do you need immediate results or do you crave optimized efficiency?
• Start with the debt (often a credit card) that is both smallest and highest interest for most impactful early progress.
• Hybrid approaches are valid and often optimal—it’s OK to mix Avalanche and Snowball tactics.
• Support is crucial in the early months: seek community, and tools, or join programs like the hosts’ 90-Day Fast Track.
• Tracking tiny wins (like crossing off links in a “debt paper chain”) creates tangible momentum.

Final Thoughts

Jen and Jill’s practical, empathetic style shines in this episode, focusing not on financial dogma but on personal sustainability, mental health, and enjoying life even during a challenging debt payoff. Their message: “Whatever you do, don’t villainize strategies—or yourself. Find the middle path, stay focused, and get support to push through the early hard months.”

Be sure to check out their website and consider their new 90-Day Debt Freedom Fast Track if you’re starting your journey.

For more:

• Buy What You Love Without Going Broke – Jen & Jill’s Book
• frugalfriendspodcast.com/debtfree – Info about the 90-day guide
• Listen for “Bill of the Week” submissions and community stories!