The Best Debt Payoff Strategy: Debt Avalanche vs Debt Snowball

Summary

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Frugal Friends Podcast

Episode: The Best Debt Payoff Strategy – Debt Avalanche vs Debt Snowball

Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Date: December 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the longstanding debate: "What is the best strategy to pay off debt—Debt Avalanche or Debt Snowball?" Hosts Jen and Jill discuss the mechanics, psychology, and real-world implications of both approaches, sharing their own payoff journeys and insights from their financial coaching experiences. They stress the importance of finding a personalized, sustainable plan (even a hybrid!) over adhering to black-and-white “expert” rules. Ultimately, the message is about individualized motivation, the “radical middle,” and sticking through the hard early months of debt repayment to achieve lasting freedom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Debt Avalanche vs Debt Snowball Debate

• Debt Avalanche:

  • Pay off debts with the highest interest rate first.
  • Pro: Saves the most money on interest over the long term.
  • Con: Can feel slow and less motivating, especially if high-interest debts aren't small balances.

  "The goal here primarily is to save as much money as possible on your interest... But the con that people poke in this is that it can feel slower."
  —Jill (05:20)

• Debt Snowball:

  • Pay off debts with the smallest balance first.
  • Pro: Gives quick psychological wins; immediate gratification supports motivation.
  • Con: May cost (slightly) more in interest if highest-interest debts aren’t smallest.

  "Our brain prefers to have immediate gratification and that is a way that you can get it when you are entering into this hard journey."
  —Jen (06:49)

• The Real Debate:

  • The difference between strategies is often minor (hundreds, not thousands, of dollars).
  • The biggest determinant of success is sticking with any plan—not the plan itself.

  "In every situation I have run, the difference between Debt Avalanche and Debt Snowball is only a couple hundred dollars... The real debate is sticking with a debt payoff strategy."
  —Jen (07:47)

2. Personal Stories and Hybrid Strategies

• Jen and her husband combined both methods: focusing on higher-interest loans for long-term savings but knocking out small loans inside those groups for motivation (a “hybrid”).

• For most people, especially with typical debts, credit cards are usually both smallest and highest interest, so start there.

  "So we did this hybrid of... quick wins, we still had short term goals, but we were tackling the overall highest debt."
  —Jen (10:25)

• Key Tip: Focus on paying off one group or loan at a time for best results—singular focus equals better momentum.

  "I would say the biggest tip based on the strategy is to focus on one thing at a time."
  —Jen (12:01)

3. Minimum Payments & Allocation of Extra Money

• Always pay minimums on all debts—extra money goes toward your targeted payoff debt.

• The debate is about where to send any surplus from side hustles, windfalls, or spending cuts.

  "We're talking about additional payments when we are really going hard at... optimize whatever excess money I do have. Where do I throw that money?"
  —Jill (12:28)

4. Choosing the Best Strategy for You

• Types of People:

  • Analytical/Patient/Optimizer: Will do well with Avalanche for interest savings.
  • Emotionally-Driven/Needs Momentum: Will prefer Snowball for psychological wins.
  • Burnout/Inconsistent Approach: Hybrid may work—start with Snowball, then switch to Avalanche.

  "If you are analytical, patient, logical—the avalanche, that's going to be for you... Whereas if you are a little bit more emotionally driven... Snowball, Snowball."
  —Jill (16:44; 17:50)

  "If you know that you are currently in a state of burnout... hybrid might be good. So you could start with a snowball, get some of those quick wins, but then switch to an avalanche."
  —Jill (18:18)

5. Simulations and Real-World Numbers

• Using median U.S. debt numbers, Jen demonstrates that Avalanche saves ~$430 and takes 7 months less than Snowball on a typical $36,000 debt scenario with a $280 monthly surplus.

• But: Snowball provides faster early wins; critical if debts are pay-off-able in under three months.

  "Total for the snowball is 74 months compared to 67 months of the Avalanche. And you pay a total of $4,630 in interest—$430 more... seven extra months and $430 more to do the snowball."
  —Jen (25:27)

6. Motivation and the Importance of the First 3–6 Months

• Most people drop off in the first three months if progress isn’t visible; sticking it out to six months makes debt freedom almost inevitable.

  "The first three months is the hardest... When you're not seeing any change in the first three months, it's so hard to keep going."
  —Jen (27:05)

  "I am convinced if you make it to the six month mark, you will become debt free."
  —Jen (27:19)

• The hosts announce their 90-Day Debt Freedom Fast Track to support listeners through this crucial period.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Debt Strategy Extremes

  "For so long, gurus have made their living on making an enemy out of something... villainizing something that is helpful is really unhealthy."
  —Jen (02:44)

• On Sticking to the Plan

  "Your debt payoff success comes down less to which strategy you choose—Debt Avalanche, Debt Snowball. Your success comes at how singular your focus is."
  —Jen (35:30)

• Motivational Challenge

  "There's a call that you need to make, isn't there? And you've been avoiding it maybe for three years... Make it. Make the call."
  —Jen (39:26)

Listener “Bill of the Week” Highlight:

Kate calls in to share how she called The New Yorker for a teacher’s discount, saving $95 on her subscription (37:58).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:20 — Jen & Jill’s personal payoff journeys
• 05:18 — Explaining Debt Avalanche
• 06:16 — Explaining Debt Snowball
• 07:47 — Actual cost differences (Avalanche vs Snowball: only hundreds of dollars)
• 10:25 — Jen’s hybrid payoff story
• 13:28 — Minimum payments and surplus strategy
• 16:44 — Picking the method for your personality type
• 18:32 — When hybrid methods may work best
• 19:43 — Running real-world numbers (simulations)
• 25:27 — Summary: Actual timeline/interest difference between Snowball and Avalanche
• 27:05 — Why the first 3 months are critical for motivation
• 29:20 — Advocating for the radical middle
• 31:26 — Announcing the 90-Day Debt Freedom Fast Track
• 37:58 — Bill of the Week: Kate saves $95
• 41:59 — Lightning Round: Coping when progress feels slow

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Actionable Tips & “Radical Middle” Takeaways

• The best debt strategy is the one you stick with.
• Analyze your own motivations—do you need immediate results or do you crave optimized efficiency?
• Start with the debt (often a credit card) that is both smallest and highest interest for most impactful early progress.
• Hybrid approaches are valid and often optimal—it’s OK to mix Avalanche and Snowball tactics.
• Support is crucial in the early months: seek community, and tools, or join programs like the hosts’ 90-Day Fast Track.
• Tracking tiny wins (like crossing off links in a “debt paper chain”) creates tangible momentum.

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Final Thoughts

Jen and Jill’s practical, empathetic style shines in this episode, focusing not on financial dogma but on personal sustainability, mental health, and enjoying life even during a challenging debt payoff. Their message: “Whatever you do, don’t villainize strategies—or yourself. Find the middle path, stay focused, and get support to push through the early hard months.”

Be sure to check out their website and consider their new 90-Day Debt Freedom Fast Track if you’re starting your journey.

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For more:

• Buy What You Love Without Going Broke – Jen & Jill’s Book
• frugalfriendspodcast.com/debtfree – Info about the 90-day guide
• Listen for “Bill of the Week” submissions and community stories!

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Transcript

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[Jen]

The best Debt Payoff Debt Avalanche versus Debt Snowball.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity and live a richer life.

Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

[Jen]

Which debt payoff actually helps you save money on paying off debt, pay off debt faster, or keep you motivated to actually finish a long debt payoff? There are several options and the one that's right for you could not be the one that was right for Jill and I. Travis, my husband and I paid off $78,000 of debt in two.

[Jill]

Years and Eric and I paid off $66,000 of debt in seven years. So today we're going to the differences between the Debt Avalanche and the Debt Snowball. Reveal which one might be best for you, maybe your specific personality, and show you how to customize either one using values based spending so you don't burn yourself out before you actually become debt free.

[Jen]

Welcome Frugal Friends. I'm Jen. I'm Jill and today we are settling for good the debate of Debt Avalanche versus Debt Debt Snowball which is the best debt payoff strategy. And it's going to come down to what's best for you. Because for so long gurus have made their living on making an enemy out of something. There's always an enemy. And so for many debt payoff experts, that enemy is either the debt avalanche or the debt snowball. So you've got like people like Dave Ramsey who are very more psychology minded that say the debt avalanche is not going to get you where you're going. You need to lean into the psychology of the debt snowball. And then you've got other financial experts saying, oh, you pay so much more if you do debt snowball. And it's not that much more. But they've made an enemy out of the snowball.

[Jill]

Yeah, I mean, I don't think we're actually going to end up settling this debate. But I think the trouble is it.

[Jen]

Doesn'T happen that right now you really.

[Jill]

Can'T, you really can't have a one size fits all. People love clickbaiting stuff, rage baity stuff to have the anchor in. You know, I put my flag on the ground. This is what's right and true. And it, and it makes them popularized.

[Jen]

And we all want someone to root against or something to root against. Right. And so villainizing something that is helpful is really unhealthy. And so in our book Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke, we talk about this radical middle approach and that everyone kind of like when you're talking about spending, like spending isn't bad. People villainize spending in like the frugal living space. But spending isn't bad. Everybody spends. You just have to learn how to spend. And that's what the whole book is about. Buywhatyoulovebook.com and so when we talk about debt payoff, anything that gets you to pay off debt is good. Right. And so it's how do we use these different strategies we have at our disposal to help us get there as fast as we can and as healthy.

[Jill]

As we can while also not getting into further debt?

[Jen]

Correct.

[Jill]

I think that's part of this too is needing to understand what were the spending decisions that got us there will also help to inform what's going to be the best payoff method for us. So one of them is the debt avalanche.

[Jen]

Yeah, let's dive into both.

[Jill]

Yeah, so this is where you're going to pay off your debts with the highest interest rate first. And so the goal here primarily is to save as much money as possible on your interest. So you're not really worried about the total sum of each loan. You're looking at the interest rates. And the faster you can get those debts with the highest interest rates gone, the less money you're going to pay on those loans overall. So that's kind of the theory behind that one. It can, yeah. So it saves you a lot of money. But the con that the hole that people will poke in this is that it can it feel slower, it can feel harder to stay motivated because this may not be your debt with the highest total. So it might take you a really long time to pay off a debt that has high interest rate. And that doesn't feel like a big win in the beginning as we're just getting started.

[Jen]

Yeah. So that's where we go into this more psychology leaning strategy, which is the debt to snowball. And that is where you start with your debt that has the lowest amount and you knock that out as quick as possible and then you go to the next one and you put all the money that you were putting on that small debt, you put it onto the other one, plus whatever minimum payment you are making on that one. All other debts for Debt Avalanche and Debt Snowball, you're just making minimum payments.

[Jill]

So.

[Jen]

So if you have a debt that does not require a minimum payment, you're in some kind of grace period, then you make zero payments on that. You don't want to go into default or collections, so you definitely do want to make your minimum payments on all the loans, but you're only ever focusing on one loan at a time. And so the debt snowball, it does give you those psychological quick wins which our brain does need. That is a scientific fact. Our brain prefers to have immediate gratification and that is a way that you can get it when you are entering into this hard journey. The con obviously is that if your smallest debt is not your highest interest, you are going to be paying on the higher interest or more expensive debt for longer. So I've done calculations on Debt Avalanche versus Debt Snowball for years.

[Jill]

Ooh, fun.

[Jen]

And I can tell you in every situation, and you should do this for yourself, you should run your own calculations on your own debt. In every situation I have run, no matter how big the disparagements, how much debt, the difference between Debt Avalanche and Debt Snowball is only a couple hundred dollars. Honestly, that is surprising.

[Jill]

I would have guessed thousands.

[Jen]

It's a couple hundred. And that is given all the same scenarios that you are paying it off in the same time FR with the same veracity either way. And so all things the same. You are typically, unless you have an obscene amount of credit card debt.

It'S usually only a couple hundred dollars. And so that is why the debate between debt avalanche and debt snowball is really such a minor one. The real debate, the real battle is sticking with a debt payoff strategy. And so that can. And honestly, that can come down to who you are too. So, like, it's not just that psychology piece, but some people are really motivated by optimization. And so for us, when we were paying off our $78,000 of student loans, it was all lower interest. So I think our Highest interest was 6.8. So we weren't dealing with credit card debt, which I, you know, okay, so I'll weave that into the story. But so when we had interest rates ranging from like 6.8% to like, I don't know, 2 or 3% on, because I had graduate loans and Travis had undergrad loans, we decided my debt was a lot bigger than his. So my brain was like, oh, we were told to do the jet snowball method. So we have to do the jet snowball method. And Travis is like, let's just like, do it however we want to. And I was like, I cannot compute. I literally had a mental breakdown when he suggested that we do whatever we want. Because I was told, but you love.

[Jill]

Doing whatever you want. Now I do. Like freedom and permission for you.

[Jen]

I know I needed that permission. There are so many things that I needed permission on. And now Travis probably regrets giving me that permission for. So what we did is that we decided to do a hybrid, which is, spoiler alert, the third option.

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[Jen]

Okay. So we did a hybrid. I had a higher amount. Higher. Higher amount and higher interest rate. And he had lower. So what we did was instead of he had some loans that had like 10,000 within them, right. But I thought we should pay his off because it was overall smaller, but it had all smaller interest rates. So he was like, why don't we pay off yours first? Because it's higher interest rate. And inside we have each of the semester loans. So we'll do the snowball within there, even though they're all the same interest rate. And so that's what we did. So we did this hybrid of we were still able to knock out these smaller loans. We still got these quick wins, we still had these short term goals, but we were tackling the overall highest debt. And then when we got to his, they were super comparable, like from 2 to 4%. So we did again, do the snowball. There and so we did this hybrid. And I think it's this and it's the. That's pretty much the same thing that I tell other people to do when I talk to them is if you've got credit card debt, most of the time your credit card debt is going to be your smallest debt. Like for most of the people I talk to, it's a couple thousand. There are outliers. Right. But most of the time it's going to be the smallest debt and the highest interest. And so across. Right across the board, it's like credit card debt first. Get it out of the way. It just makes sense.

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[Jen]

But I would say the biggest tip based on the strategy is to focus on one thing at a time. We were focusing on one group of numbers at a time. And overall it didn't really matter what the interest rate of those numbers were. It was the singular focus on that one loan.

[Jill]

Motivation over time was more important and the consistency of sticking with it than how much money and savings and optimization of interest really means. I do think we should clarify that all of the loans are being paid. I know we're talking about like one goal, but it's not as if we're saying, I'm not going to pay those until this gets paid off. We're talking about additional payments when we are really going hard at. I want all this gone. I don't want to just be making minimal payments for forever. I want to really optimize whatever excess money I do have. Where do I throw that money? That's the conversation that we're having. So we're still making at least the minimum payments on all of these other debts. It's just if you take on a side hustle or you get a little bit of a windfall, or you cut back on some of your spending and you're able to make some extra effort towards these debts. This is the order in which you can kind of go is what we're saying here.

[Jen]

Yeah, you definitely, again, don't want to go into collections, don't want to go into fault. So you have to make those minimum payments. But I think definitely the conversation is less about debt snowball and debt avalanche and more about having that singular goal.

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[Jill]

Okay, so figuring out which one is best for people individually I think is still a topic of conversation. Still like, how do I figure out how to go about this? I mean, I know for Eric and I it was all student loans in the beginning and it was kind of just all lumped in and same interest rates. But it really was that chipping away. I never really got to have any quick wins or any thoughts about interest rates, that kind of a thing. But if you do, if you've got kind of a combination, here's some things that you can kind of consider.

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[Jill]

Who are you? What type of person you do? Do you are. Do you be okay? Are you analytical?

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Patient? Logical? Thinking?

[Jill]

The avalanche, like that's going to be for you. Because really, yes, you will save money. And I do. Like, I don't want to gloss over that. I know that we're kind of minimizing saving hundreds in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, you do want motivation more than saving a little bit of money. However, we also have an entire backlog of episodes talking about ways to be able to save even a couple hundred dollars and the difference that that can make. So I don't want to act like I'm talking out the other side of my mouth. That's something. It is something. And if that's clicking with your brain, like, that's something that matters to me. Yeah. You're going to want to pay off your high interest loans first. It's going to optimize your interest savings.

[Jen]

Well, that was Travis. He was wanting to do that optimization. And he is very obviously, if you've heard me talk about Travis before, he is kind of obsessed with getting the lowest price for things. And to him, he was obsessed with getting the lowest price for his debt payoff. So that. Yeah, that was him.

[Jill]

Yeah. Whereas if you are a little bit more emotionally driven or, you know, I need momentum. I absolutely need that quick win. I'm gonna need to feel it, I'm gonna see it, and I'm gonna need that to drive me forward. Snowball, Snowball.

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[Jill]

That's gonna feel real good. When you see these smaller debts just get checked off, you're gonna be like, I can do this. It feels like progress faster. It feels efficient.

[Jen]

If.

[Jill]

If you know that you are currently in a state of burnout or you are maybe have a little bit more of an inconsistent approach to life and the world. This is where a hybrid might be good.

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[Jill]

Start with a snowball, get some of those quick wins, but then switch to an avalanche. You know, keep it spicy, keep it saucy, keep it interesting, keep them guessing.

[Jen]

Oh, wow, those shoulders.

[Jill]

Isn't that great?

[Jen]

Real good. So not spilling coffee either. You're so good. Let's run a. So you can see the difference between the debt avalanche and the debt snowball. Let's run a theoretical numbers just based on US Medians for student loans and credit cards. I didn't include cars because those can vary so wildly, but we'll just do those two for the sake of keeping it simple. So in the US the median credit card debt is 7,000 with a 22% APR and a minimum payment of $210 per month for a student loan. Median balance is 29,000 with a 5.5% APR. So obviously the credit card is leaps and bounds higher and that's why I typically say start there, especially if you've got something simple like this. And it's the again, it's the lowest amount and the highest interest rate. So.

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[Jill]

Yeah, both things are true. We love that.

[Jen]

Yes. So I had AI run a simulation for me with a cup. If we had something that was maybe a little bit more complex and not so straightforward. And so we're running with the 7,022% for credit card, we've got two of those and then one student loan at 29,000. So we are going to look at debt snowball first. So maybe our. Oh, this one has split up, sorry into two student loans. My bad. So we're looking at credit card being 7,000, a student loan being 5,000 and another student loan being at 24,000. So you come up to that 29,000 student loan. But our first student loan is 4.5%. So in avalanche order, we are looking at the credit card debt first. And if we're doing snowball, we're looking at that $5,000 student loan first, but it has the lowest interest rate. So for the credit card we are focusing on that a little more early and then we're actually doing our smallest debt last because it has the smaller interest rate. So let's take a look at our numbers. So with the avalanche, the first credit card with the highest interest rate is paid off in 17 months. And that's based on just median. And we're looking at an extra available $280 a month. So nothing crazy, nothing like when we were doing it, we were putting one entire paycheck towards debt every month. Right. So we're not talking about needing crazy numbers to execute any of these strategies.

[Jill]

But still paying the minimum amounts. You know, you are talking about $600 potentially total if you're adding in that extra 280.

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[Jen]

So we've got across the three, the total minimums we're looking at $520. So we've got a minimum of 210 for the credit card, 75 for the small student loan and 235 for the larger student loan. And then that's 520. That's our minimums. We're obviously paying all those and we've got an extra 280 available. How do we allocate it? And that's really what we're talking about with any debt payoff strategy is how do we allocate our extra Money, do we put it towards debt? Do we put it towards savings? Do we put it toward investing? And that's a whole different conversation. So let me know in the comments if that is an episode that you would like to see. So in our avalanche, our credit card is paid off in 17 months and we pay a total of $1,100 in interest. And then we move on. We are still paying that 235 to the second student loan of 24,000, but now we're adding that 280 on top of it. Before we were putting the 210 minimum payment on the credit card plus 280. So that is what? Four hundred and ninety. And then now we're putting that 490 on top of 235. That's math, right? Yeah, we like that. You'll let me know in the comments if I got that wrong. And that is paid off in then 44 months and you're paying a total of 2,900 in interest. And then our last little baby student loan, we're putting all of that on top. So 520 plus 280, which is, oh, that's easy. $800 towards that last debt. So it gets paid off real quickly in six months and you paid over the whole thing, $200 in interest. So that is a total of 67 months, which is however many years that is. And $4,200 total interest. And so mathematically and time efficiently it wins. We know the avalanche is going to win there, but by how much does it win? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the real thing.

[Jill]

That's the real math I care about.

[Jen]

Okay, so in snowball order, we're going smallest to largest. So we're going baby student loan, then credit card and then big student loan. We've got our loan a that's actually paid off in seven months. We're using the same minimums and you pay $130 in interest there. And then we move on to our credit card and that's paid off in 19 months and that's at a paid of $1,400 in interest is the cost. And then our last loan takes 48 months. And so that's a big thing. Like that's a long time, right?

$3,100 in interest.

And so I will say it takes about three months to get anywhere with any kind of sustainability. And so that's why I think the debt snowball can be super beneficial, especially if you can get a debt paid off in less than three Months. If it's a really small debt, it can give you that momentum you need. If your debts are all like 7 month plus debts, it may be different.

[Jill]

Is there an overall number though?

[Jen]

Yes, I'm getting there.

[Jill]

I'm getting there because I'm having a hard time like hearing all the different numbers. If anybody else is.

[Jen]

If you're on YouTube, we will have those numbers on the screen. But the total for the snowball is 74 months compared to the 67 months of the Avalanche. And you pay a total of 4. $4,630 in interest. So again, hundreds of dollars. $430 more in interest and you've got a five and a half year time frame on Avalanche versus 6.2 years on the Snowball. And again, this is a very small extra 280 once you start getting in and you're like, I'm gonna just add more and more to speed up this process. I find that those numbers really do. Like, we didn't start with a whole paycheck going towards our debt. We worked up to that. So this is just. If you never change, ever, and you only ever put an extra 280 per month towards your debt, this would be.

[Jill]

There's no ramp up. There's so many factors, right.

[Jen]

All things being the same, you're paying just an extra. You're paying a little more in time. Like 430 more. Seven months, essentially. Seven extra months and $430 more to do the snowball. But that comes at. If you're. If your debts are smaller up front, that could give you the motivation to stick with it longer.

[Jill]

It really does seem like the debt snowball is chosen if you need that motivation.

[Jen]

Because it is.

[Jill]

The math will say the first three.

[Jen]

Months is the hardest.

[Jill]

Avalanche it.

[Jen]

The first three months is the hardest. That's where people fall off. When you're not seeing any change in the first three months, it's so hard to keep going.

[Jill]

What really costs you money is not getting it paid off.

Right.

[Jen]

It's not getting to that six month mark. I am convinced if you make it to the six month mark, you will become debt free. Yeah. It will not take you forever to become debt free. Like it may take you six, seven years, but you will become debt free.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Jill]

I do think that this is where our concept that we talk a lot about on the podcast as well as in the book is the radical middle. And so we call it radical because not many people go there.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Jill]

We're drawn to extremes. We either want to Go all in or all out. We want to be far this way or far that way. And we say there is goodness and wisdom in the extremes, but they're not sustainable to live there. And so to be able to take what is, what draws people to this side of the extreme, what draws people to this side of the extreme. And how do I hold the tension between those two things to find my radical middle. And so that concept, I think, is helpful in choosing a debt payoff strategy.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Jill]

Am I going to do avalanche or snowball? It's the. I need to understand myself. I need to understand the composition of my debts. I need to understand how motivation works for me, but also in how hard we go at debt pay. Like you said, you started out with a certain amount, then we ramped up. You heard from us in the beginning, you paid off your debt in two years. Eric and I took seven years with a lesser amount. We paid off less than. Of course, our financial situation was different, but I think that's the permission that we also want to give in this is, yeah, choose a strategy hybrid, that thing that's going to work for you, but also recognize that this doesn't have to be snail's pace, but it also doesn't have to be this intense thing that causes you medical issues, unnecessary stress, like you're not enjoying life whatsoever.

[Sponsor Voice]

There's.

[Jill]

There's life to be lived. While we are also moving towards a goal.

[Jen]

Yeah. And regardless of which part that you are choosing, which strategy you're choosing, we actually, if you're watching this in 2025, we want to help you walk through that first three months. And so this is something that we've been thinking about for a little bit about this first three months and how they are the hardest. You cannot, I mean, you could pay somebody to stick with you the whole debt payoff journey and just keep you motivated to keep you from jumping off the ledge of making poor financial decisions. You absolutely can. And that person is probably called the certified financial planner, but you don't have to. But it does help to have somebody in your corner for those first three to six months to keep you going. Because I am again convinced if you make it those first three to six months, you're golden. You're gonna stick with it. So true. So for the first three months of 2026, we want to invite you to join us for our 90 day debt freedom fast track. We want to be with you for three months, guiding you, giving you challenges, being on zoom calls with you to keep you motivated. And so everyone says three months is too long to do a program. You see so many six week programs out there because that's about how long people can stick with a program. There is a reason that all programs are six weeks. There's a reason that the challenges in our challenge membership are one month long because it is very hard to stick with something past four to six weeks. And so what we're gonna do is we are going to be with you for three months.

[Jill]

We're going to buck the research. We are gonna. Because you need to be able to stick with debt payoff for longer than six weeks. You're not gonna get it done in six weeks.

[Jen]

You're not likely to still be with us at week eight. But we are going to be with you, right? And so we want, we'll be there, we're going to be in your house. No. So if you go to frugalfriendspodcast.com debt free or in the link in the description, if you're on YouTube then you're going to see more about it. But essentially what it is is we're going to do four zoom calls where they're going to be kind of Q and A hybrid with some not motivational but really strategic psychological insight that you can use for your first six months journey. So we're gonna have four of those, a kickoff and then after each of the three months we're gonna do three challenges during that time. So you're gonna get access to our challenge membership for three months where we are gonna do a no spend challenge, a meal prep challenge and a side hustle challenge. Because I believe those are the three most important skills to paying off debt. If you're, if we're thinking strategy Debt snowball and Debt avalanche have nothing on those three skills right there.

You are going to get access to two books. We're going to kind of like have some book club style, you know, sesh at our meetings. And they are books that I have written. So the first one is going to be the debt is going to be the no spend challenge guide. And then the second one is going to be pay off your debt debt for good. And so that's like a three week book that you can go through to really walk you through everything you need to understand to pay off debt. And spoiler alert, again, it's a lot of that sustainability over like self created motivation.

[Jill]

I'm super excited about this because this feels like top of mind. This feels like what a lot of and we know it's what a lot of you all are dealing with. You've got debt payoff goals, which I'm actually curious. Drop in the comments where you're at. Tell us your story. Are you Team Avalanche? Are you Team Snowball? Are you Team Hybrid? Radical Middle? What's going on for you? We want to hear more of your stories. And over the past couple of years we've kind of gotten away from doing a lot of content about this and yet it is still what we think is a good aim. We still know that so many people are in this stage. We have still so much to share based on our own debt payoff journeys. You know, a lot that we kind of rediscovered as we even wrote our book. And this is top of mind for us. And I think especially as we enter into the new year, going to be really important for people like coming off of the holidays. Okay, how do I, how do I buckle down and get at this goal that I have set myself up for in the new year? And we, we want to be a part of that process with people. I think we've said we have a go to help our community pay off $100,000 of debt in the first three months.

[Jen]

Three months, baby, in three months. So we want to help essentially 100 people pay off $1,000 of debt in the first 3 months.

[Jill]

And we believe that's very possible.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Jill]

For you to be able to pay off $1,000 of debt in three months. 100%. This is what I would have wanted. You often ask me, when you and I are talking, what's going to be helpful for our. We have wanted. And a lot of it has to do with meal planning, which will be in what, like this, the 90 day thing that we're doing. But also just the how. How do I do this? Am I doing it right? What are other people doing? I didn't have a lot of community. It's what connected us so much because we were both in debt payoff journeys. But I just felt like this is such a slog. And it was because it was seven years for me. I'm like, how do I keep going? How do I do this? Am I set up as, as, as good as possible? And so I want to, I want to do what I didn't have.

[Jen]

Essentially we want to help you pay off an extra three. Pay off $350 per month for three months, get you to $1,000 paid off. And we want to help our community pay off $100,000 of debt in the first quarter of 2026. Are you going to do it with us? Are you gonna be one of those people? Because right now we have an early bird special to join this group, but it does expire on December 16, so you do have to get in. If you are on the friend letter, you already have all the details in there again. Frugalfriendspodcast.com debtfree. You're gonna find out. So I've kind of been working off this four, three, two, one kind of idea. So we've got the four calls, the three challenges, the two books, and one goal. Like I said at the top of the episode, your debt payoff success comes down less to which strategy you choose. Debt avalanche. Debt snowball. Your success comes at how singular your focus is in paying off debt. And so let us help you get there because you want to jump off the ledge.

Every couple weeks, right? With all the info that you'll be into taking, just organically let it be there for you.

[Jill]

How do I find more money? How can I make my brain think of ways to find more money? Like, to the point where I'm just like, in parking lots looking for cash on the ground to be able to, like, pay down debt?

[Jen]

Don't do that.

[Jill]

And that's a tip that you'll be able to find in our 90 day debt freedom fast track. Speaking of freedom and free and and motivational things that we are here to walk you through.

[Jen]

The bill of the week.

[Podcast Host Intro]

That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills. Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week.

[Kate]

Hi, Jen and Jill. My name is Kate and I'm calling because I had a New Yorker subscription and the renewal rate was 169.99. And I was almost gonna cancel, and then I figured I'd call and see if I could get a teacher discount. And I called and they said the teacher rate was 74.99 and I saved $95 and I still get to read a magazine that I really love. So thanks for encouraging everyone to live frugally. And I am happy that I made that phone call.

[Jill]

Beautiful.

[Jen]

Yay.

[Jill]

Beautiful, beautiful Bill. Kate, this is very fun because you just called and you have. And that is the key to saving money. Just ask.

[Jen]

We have so many people that are truly just out here making calls and saving money, and that is essentially what bill of the week has become. And I love it. I'm here for it. Because making phone calls is the worst. It's the hardest thing that you'll ever have to do, I believe. Harder than paying off debt. Ask me what I think the hardest thing is. Making a call. Call that you need to call. Hey, you watching this or listening to this? There's a call that you need to make, isn't there? And you've been avoiding it maybe for three years. Maybe it's a dental appointment. Make it. Make the call.

[Jill]

Why do we put these things off? Generally they don't actually take that much time. Like time yourself. No, they don't. This is not going to take for forever. So we just agonize.

[Jen]

Here's the thing. I want you to make that call today. Put it on your list, cross it off, and then tell us that you made the call. Tell us you made the call.

[Jill]

Oh, and then we can know. We're just out here changing our lives.

[Jen]

Where do we send them? Jill? Oh.

[Jill]

Oh.

Frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill I do want that.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Jill]

But I want them to.

[Jen]

Oh. In the comments too. Okay. Do both.

[Jill]

I want to comment because I want to know immediately. I want that instant gratification. I want that, that snowball effect to know that I'm changing lives with this challenge.

[Jen]

I want you to [e-mail] Bill because I want to know you deeply.

[Sponsor Voice]

Okay.

[Jen]

Like, I want to hear your voice.

[Jill]

Like Kate, Leave it for us. We can't wait to hear it.

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[Jill]

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[Jill]

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[Jill]

And now it's time for the lightning round Pew.

[Jen]

All right, what keeps you going when progress feels slow? So this I will tell you the reason why I have been so passionate about like the three month thing recently. Yeah, to tell so this year I have been on a weight loss journey, which feels embarrassing to say, taboo to say.

For, you know, probably reasons I need therapy for. But I have never been successful at losing weight because I've always had this all or nothing mentality. And it's come back a lot in debt freedom too, because especially if you have tried to follow the Dave Ramsey method, you've got this gazelle intense ideology where you have to go all in beans and rice, set the house on fire, collect the insurance money.

[Jill]

And.

[Jen]

Is that not what they say?

[Jill]

I don't know.

[Jen]

I haven't listened in a while. Could be why so many things are on fire in my life. So I really and this, he does this for a reason. It resonates with people, right? The thing is, is that it's not real. It's not reality. Like people can't do it in a healthy way. They can do it, but not in a healthy way and not long term. And so this is the mindset that I have had around my health. Like if I'm not gonna be perfect with working out, eating, running, or go all in, even if I'm not perfect, then I'm not good enough. Like I'm not doing it good enough. And so, so I started working with a coach this year who is somebody I've met in real life. Not just like an Internet personality. She is actually more to me a more real person than she is influencer. She's not that person. And it was through working with her that I actually, she was the person that kept me from jumping off the ledge, so to speak, so many times. Because that first two months I saw no change. I saw like nothing. And it wasn't until I completed that third month that I started to see no change was actually change. And so I have been on this journey since June. And I will be on this journey, like, probably till, I don't know, April. It's not forever. It will end.

And that's another thing that I had to learn, too. All these things that I have been saying in regards to money, I had to learn this way. So maybe you're listening or watching this and you're the person who can do the thing in another area of your life and you're like, why can't I do this with my spending, my debt payoff? Let us be the people that help you in the way that my coach, Kristin helped me. And so that is truly what helped me when progress was feeling so slow for me this year.

[Jill]

Yeah, it's a tough one because ultimately I do believe in slow and steady. I think that that is what is sustainable. But there are certain goals in life and seasons that we come into where it's like, I gotta do something that really kind of sucks and want it done quickly and I want to get it out of here. And so I might do some things that aren't super sustainable long term just to really see some headway. And I think debt is one of those things. But I think for me, what helped then and is still kind of a strategy I implement now. If there's things I want to really do a harder push before I kind of back off the gas is creating some of that momentum. Like, if the momentum doesn't already exist or the opportunity, like, like the debt snowball isn't there, then how can I create wins for myself? And so for me, I. I made a literal physical paper chain that I assigned monetary amounts to and I hung it up around our entire apartment. I want to say, I want to say at first, honestly, it was probably like 20 bucks because we were so broke and, and it's going to take us a long time to throw an extra $20 at debt.

[Sponsor Voice]

Time. They.

[Jill]

They represented kind of different things. I would make different chains, but the ability to. To rip a paper.

Circle off that chain and actually see the progress that way, what it did feel like a win to me. I enjoyed that process. And I also think a lot of what we talk about on this episode is finding the things that helped me to enjoy life through the process. So not neglecting getting together with friends or doing fun stuff, but also being creative about how I do that, finding the free things. Because life needs to continue to be lived even while we're maybe making some sacrifices in different areas. How do we make sure that it's not deprivation? And so I think I was able to pay down debt over the course of seven years because I also figured out how to still enjoy life through that process.

[Jen]

Yeah, and I think there can be seasons of momentum within a debt payoff journey, but I don't think you get to see what that momentum is unless you stick with it for at least three months and you see what you can do, you see what you can't do, and then you can go all in on the things you can do or in the weeks or months that you can do them. And so that all comes down to getting out of the all or nothing mindset and sticking with it in the capacity it can be stuck with. So we really hope that you will go to frugalfriendspodcast.com debtfree and allow us to be with you on your debt free journey for the first three months of 2026. And please, even if it's not you and you maybe have a friend who's interested in paying off debt, share this this with them. And maybe you've already paid off your debt and you just like the work we do. And if you could give us a rating and review on Spotify or Apple subscribe on YouTube, give us a little comment and just be like oh you're so unhinged on any of our videos. I love seeing that pop up and people being like what are they doing that's so unhinged and nobody really knowing where it's coming from. But yeah, we would love to see that from you. Or if you've read the book Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke and you've maybe thinking about leaving a comment or a review on Amazon, even if you got from the library like C. Carter did, it happens to be five stars. Just like the podcast, I'm giving this book five stars. In this book, the Frugal friends have taken the super complex world of finance and simplified it literally. There's a whole chapter on simplification. Jen and Jill have done the hard work of deep diving into the psychology of our spending, our values and how the world wants us to spend, and then have given us the lightning round and action steps to help us take control of how we spend. This is not just another book that will tell you not to buy coffee. It will make you figure out if you even want the coffee. Most of the time I do. But yes, not everyone does. But buy what you love. Love helps you take full advantage of the income you already have without pressuring you into completely cut out the things that bring you joy or taking on five side hustles. I've been a listener of the podcast for a while and I'm so happy I got this book. It's the podcast in paper form except now I'm thinking I will need the audiobook since I'm so used to hearing Jen and Jill's voice. So annoying.

So get this book. Do your 90 day transaction summary, a little decluttering mentally and physically and you will be on your way to better financial and mental health.

[Jill]

Oh my gosh, that was amazing.

[Jen]

Carter in here with the tips too. Thank you.

[Jill]

Obviously C. Carter, you did the whole thing right. You can just read the book, but you can also read the book, do the lightning round in action step. You can also do all those things plus get dig into the resources and I think, I think, yeah, like they're pointing out, that's where the real meat and potatoes and long term change can happen. So anyways, thank you so much for that review. If this is prompting you to say, ooh, I've got some things to say about the book, please leave us a review. I've got some things to say about the YouTube channel or the podcast. Yeah, leave a comment, leave a rating and review. We love it. We love to read them. We love to hear it.

[Jen]

We'll see you next time.

[Jill]

See ya.

[Jen]

Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.

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