The Credit Card Rewards Game Is Changing (And Banks Are Winning)

Summary

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Frugal Friends Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: The Credit Card Rewards Game Is Changing (And Banks Are Winning)

Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Date: April 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

Jen and Jill, self-declared “credit card travel rewards optimizers,” dive deep into the shifting landscape of credit card rewards. Once an easy way for the frugally-minded and millennials alike to score free travel and perks, the game is now changing—but not in consumers’ favor. The discussion unpacks how banks are restructuring rewards systems, increasing annual fees, making perks trickier to use, and ultimately capturing more profit for themselves. Is it still worth it? And if so, how can you play smarter? Expect history, snarky takes, practical tips, and a call to reexamine your personal strategy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise and Shift of Credit Card Rewards

• Origins & Evolution

  • Rewards are “not for you, the consumer”—they’re sophisticated marketing to breed loyalty and increase spending ([07:05] Jen).
  • Airline loyalty programs began in the 1980s to keep customers locked in; banks soon bought into the model.
  • 2000s: Cashback cards rise and then degrade as their value drops ([10:38] Jill).
  • 2016 “credit card war”: Chase Sapphire Reserve debuts with huge perks, followed by Amex and Capital One, fueling a rewards arms race.

• Millennial Perspectives

  • For millennials: “We really treat financial instability like a rewards program...Our parents had savings accounts. We have a rewards dashboard. That’s millennial math.” ([05:14] Jen)
  • Social rituals (group bills, Venmo) often revolve around maximizing points.

2. Who Actually Profits? (Hint: Not Us)

• Shift to Premium Experiences

  • Banks have pivoted to building their own elite airport lounges, but these exist to nudge higher spending and higher fees.
  • “The more people spend, the more money [banks] make with less effort.” ([13:56] Jen)
  • Annual card fees—some near $1,000—are steadily climbing, attached to perks that are often hard to use or access.

• Multiple Ways Banks Make Money

  • Not just interest—transaction fees, annual fees, data collection, and forcing cardholders into expensive spending patterns.
  • “You have the privilege of getting $100 off, but you still have to pay for it.” ([15:37] Jill)

3. Darker Truths: Points Aren’t Really Yours

• Account Closures and “Rewards Abuse”
  • Notable listener/influencer stories:
    • Chase closed cards without warning, confiscating saved-up points and offering lackluster compensation ([18:18–21:41]).
    • Points can be revoked with little explanation; all at banks’ discretion.
  • “If you think this isn’t gonna happen to you, it definitely could happen to you...Chase reserves the right to cancel your account for any reason.” ([18:46] Jill)

4. Perks Are Getting Worse, Harder to Use, and More Complicated

• International Devaluation

  • BA/Amex (UK): Spend £25,000 in 7 months and still only qualify for lowest-status rewards ([24:05] clip).
  • “It is wild that you can't even achieve bronze status after spending $25,000... bronze is the bottom tier.” ([24:05] Jen)
  • Credits are chopped into confusing installments ($50 for six months, another $50 later), restricting accessibility.

• Hotels: The Hyatt Example

  • Jen’s beloved Hyatt card: Lower tiers now require double the points; top-tier nights leap from 45,000 to 75,000 points each ([26:03] Jen).
  • General takeaway: Book now, or brace for steep devaluation.

5. Rethinking the Game: Is It Worth It?

• “Gone are the days that we can just rack up all the welcome bonuses...annual fees...make that impossible for the average person.” ([27:20] Jill)
• “They are perks most people will never use...the minimum cost is $200 so you’re definitely going to have to spend at least that. That’s not a benefit, that’s coercion.” ([29:11] Jen)
• Tie your strategy to your real lifestyle and actual travel/spending habits.

6. Actionable Takeaways & Practical Advice

• Reevaluate Regularly
  • “We can get into a habit or our brains can become so loyal to a brand...We need to reevaluate our credit card usage, our point usage, and whether or not it’s still working for us.” ([32:53] Jill)
• Be Honest about Value
  • What’s most valuable “for you” may not be the highest-rated card on the blogs.
• Cancel What Doesn’t Serve You
  • Don’t be afraid to shift from once-glorious cards or programs.
• If You Carry a Balance, STOP CHASING REWARDS
  • “None of this is worth it at all if we are carrying over a balance month to month and paying that interest.” ([35:15] Jill)
• No Blanket Recommendations
  • “We’re not giving any card recommendations...it’s up to you.” ([36:01] Jen)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Who Wins
  • “I've got a big heart and I want to give back to my customers—said no CEO ever.” ([07:05] Jen)
• On Millennial Math
  • “We treat debt like it’s a rewards arcade...our parents had savings accounts. We have a rewards dashboard. That’s millennial math.” ([05:14] Jen)
• On Deceptive Perks
  • “It’s really, they’re justifying these premium cards with premium experiences...but they are perks most people will never use.” ([29:11] Jen)
• On Strategic Spending
  • “Book [Hyatt hotels] today...if you want to get the current point valuations for what you have.” ([26:16] Jen)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------| | 01:31 | Jen and Jill introduce the theme: banks are winning the rewards game | | 05:06 | “Millennial math” and group tricks for earning/optimizing points | | 06:49 | History lesson: loyalty programs and the real reason behind rewards | | 10:38 | How cashback and travel cards have become less valuable over time | | 13:56 | Why banks love big spenders, how perks target behaviors | | 18:18 | Banks closing accounts/points being seized without recourse | | 24:05 | UK segment: British Airways/American Express points “devaluation” | | 26:03 | Hyatt’s upcoming points devaluation—case study in how quickly things shift | | 29:11 | The new “complicated” perks, convolution, and consumer confusion | | 35:15 | Jill sums up: “None of this is worth it if we’re paying interest” | | 36:01 | Hosts refuse to give blanket card recommendations—it's personal! | | 43:03 | Jill weighs the real cost/benefit on her ultra-premium card | | 45:00 | Lounges packed, perks inaccessible: the millennial hangover | | 46:10 | Personal anecdotes: considering airline/cruise-specific cards for actual lifestyle, not hype | | 52:02 | Closing reflections on podcasting and maintaining integrity |

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Action Steps for Listeners

• Rethink your loyalty: Does your card actually work for your current spending/travel style?
• Plan card strategies around your real life, not just theoretical values or influencer advice.
• Regularly re-evaluate perks vs. fees: what made sense last year may not today.
• Avoid “premium” annual fees unless you’re truly capturing equivalent or greater value.
• Use reliable resources like “The Points Guy” but think critically—what works for the masses might not be right for you.
• Most important: Never carry a balance for the sake of rewards!

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Overall Tone

Conversational, irreverent, sometimes a little darkly funny—but always focused on helping frugal-minded listeners avoid the traps of “free” travel and see the bigger picture behind bank marketing.

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For those who feel like credit card rewards programs used to be simple—and now seem too good to be true—this episode is an eye-opener and a practical guide to smarter, more intentional spending.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

life Sleep the Credit Card Rewards game is changing and banks are winning. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity

[B]

and live a richer life. Here are your hosts, Jen and J.

[A]

Welcome Frugal Friends. I'm Jen. I'm Jill and for years both Jill and I have been avid travel rewards credit card optimizers. We have had so many different types of credit cards from probably every single bank out there. But we probably like you if you are also in the rewards game, have noticed a major shift in the last few years and according to according to news, more shifts are coming starting with one of our favorite favorite brands. And so we really thought it needed to be discussed what is happening to travel rewards? Is it worth using them anymore? And if so, how? And if not, what do we do? So that is what we are diving into in this episode.

[B]

Points are harder to use. Perks are more complicated. Annual fees are going up. Oh my.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's a girl to do?

[A]

What we're going to tell you. But first, I am running a marathon and I if you guys know, you know that I've been running Disney races for years now and honestly, that's another thing. That's another episode that may bear bear creating. You let us know in the comments if you want a similar episode on how Disney is becoming unaffordable and unattainable becoming. But anyway Always has been. Anyways, so I'm running the Disney World marathon with a few friends in January, and we are doing it. We are not giving our money to Disney. Instead, we have decided to raise money for the Ronald McDonald House Charities and give our money to them. But that means we have to give a lot more money than if we had just paid the fee to Disney. And so if you are familiar with Ronald McDonald House, you know that it keeps parents and families who have a child in the hospital close to their child. And they don't have to worry about the fees of a hotel, especially if they're using credit card rewards and they can no longer afford hotels with their rewards. I digress. So a night at Ronald McDonald House costs $165 a night, but families only have to pay $15 per night, and the average stay is about two to three weeks. And so we are raising money to fill in that gap. My team wants to raise about $3,000 so that we can pay for three weeks of a stay. So head to frugalfriendspodcast.com/slrun and if you are on our friend letter, frugalfriendspodcast.Com you can sign up on that website. You will see there is a special perk for subscribers to the friend letter. If you make a donation of $25 or more, we are going to send you something, but you have to be signed up for the friend letter to get that. But if you're Already signed up, frugalfriendspodcast.com run and thank you so much. We are so appreciative to you. And there will be more stunts in order to raise money through marathon training. This is just the beginning.

[B]

Jen is so locked in on rundisney that, like, this is now becoming what we do in the first part of our episode. But you know what? I'm here for it because Ronald McDonald house is great.

[A]

Ronald McDonald house is great. And I'm becoming more disenfranchised with Disney, and I think it does probably bear an episode. So. Oh, I love it.

[B]

Love that. We'll see.

[A]

If enough people comment and and want it, I could be swayed. But anyways, credit card travel rewards, they've become pretty synonymous. Not just with us, not just with frugal people who like to optimize travel, but like millennials in general. Millennials will look at you with full confidence and be like, don't worry. I'll put it on the credit card and get the points. We really treat financial instability like a rewards program and like Putting emergencies on card for the points is such a millennial coded way to live. Emotionally devastated. But I did get double miles. Millennials might not have savings, but at least we have points. We treat debt like it's a rewards arcade. Our parents had savings accounts. We have a rewards dashboard. That's millennial math. Don't worry, guys, I'll put it on my card so I get the points. You can just venmo me the balance.

[B]

Okay. Honestly, Yes. I am this millennial. When we go on group trips with friends, we each take turns putting the meal bill on one of our credit cards so that it we equally all get the fair share of points because of it. The difference is we're not going into debt on these credit cards.

[A]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean the bank is not making money off of us.

[B]

The danger.

[A]

Yeah. And I, I think to understand this, we have to like, why this, why we are where we are. We kind of have to understand how the sausage is made and where points came from to see where they're going in the future.

[B]

So here's the origins. We all know this, but we're going to say it again. Rewards are not for you. The consumer. It's not just these big brands and banks decid. Let's give them something for nothing. That's not happening.

[A]

I've got a big heart and I want to give back to my customers. Said no CEO ever.

[B]

Yes, they are a marketing tactic meant to extract more money from you, lock you into their larger ecosystem, make you more loyal to them. Sure, we do get some benefit, but so do the big companies. And this kind of became a thing mainly around airlines. So in the 1980s is when a lot of airlines started to provide points, loyalty programs really, to their flyers. Let's get, let's get people locked into only flying with our airline credit cards started to notice this and became tied to these airline loyalty programs. And of course, as we already mentioned, it's designed to increase that spending, lock in customers, keep you loyal to that one airline brand.

[A]

Because who, who wants to fly with Southwest when you've got status with Delta and you've got these perks that. And don't worry, a loyalty program episode is coming that is one that I get super angry about. So why am I going to fly Southwest when I get all these extra perks with Delta? And spoiler alert, these used to be perks that everyone would get with Delta, and now you've got to spend so much money in order to get them and they've just. It's Just become normalized to get less or to be required to spend more to get the perks that used to be. Used to be selling points of the brand. And you would not fly with a brand unless it offered, you know, free bags or whatever. Just think, like, look at flights in the. When. When was flying invented? When, I don't even know, like the 50s or 60s commercial flight. I should know that.

[B]

Yeah, that's what works in aviation.

[A]

Yeah, but like, they were so luxurious, like offered all these perks. And so now it just increasingly feels like we are nickel and diming and 1914. That's crazy. Yeah.

[B]

I probably didn't, you know, become more commercial.

[A]

Wide spread.

[B]

That was a commercial flight.

[A]

Well, there you go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I guess that is probably the Wright brothers, the first commercial flight. Or no, maybe not.

[B]

And it happened right here in Tampa Bay.

[A]

Wow. Oh, yeah. From St. Peter Albert winning. Yes. I knew there was a reason that there's a lot of aviation. I know I've seen something about the first commercial flight. Okay, I'm so sorry to digress. But so, so this has always been like, airlines have never just given out of the goodness of their heart, you know, these miles to banks. Banks buy them from the airlines. At least in the 80s, that's how it started. And so airlines have made billions of dollars selling their miles, but they could always make more. So in the 2000s, moving on, we've got cash back, cards are introduced. And so now we've got a new way kind of pulling away from the single loyalty to an airline or a hotel. And we're like, we're just going to give cash back on everything. And we've seen the degrading of, you know, 5% cash back to 2% to 1% to like half a percent to.

[B]

Only on certain items you get cash back.

[A]

So we've seen that degrade as well. In the early 2010s is when travel cards, in order to make a comeback, really exploded. And in 2016 is when we saw this really this real war for credit card users. And I think this is where our story is. Millennials becoming obsessed with travel rewards really begins because we have the launch of the Chase Sapphire reserve. So it's got an unheard of 100,000 point bonus, which now we see all the time. It's got access to airport lounges and premium perks, which at the time were truly premium. And it was, it was like really great to have airport lounges. You couldn't just, you know, get a, I think like one of those passes and just Head into any lounge. Right. So you really had something, you had to escalate to get these buyers. And then the war starts with Amex launching their own. You've got Capital One launching their own. So where over the last 10 years, now we have banks building their own lounges. So we've got Chase is getting these Chase Reserve lounges that are just gorgeous.

[B]

Capital One has their own lounges. Amex too. Yeah. Each one is building out their own. And meanwhile, airlines also will have their own. Delta will have their own lounge. And so it's becoming such a monumental enterprise that it is worth it to them to build these really beautiful amenities within airports, which cannot be inexpensive. And it makes me wonder what came first, because millennials are also known for wanting experiences over things. And that's one of those self righteous things that we pride ourselves in of. I'm not collecting a bunch of plastic and junk. I'm getting the real thing, which is memories.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, did we come up with that or are they telling us that this is what we want? Because so much more money can be made on travel than on collecting snow babies, which is also something I did do in my youth.

[A]

Well, I mean, and if you think about it, the more I think about travel is I could either collect a thing and have that thing, or I can collect a memory. And that memory is intangible. Like it lives in like a phone in a photo on my phone that I have to scroll back five minutes to find. And I'm not saying that one is better than the other. I do think that as millennials, I think we have improperly elevated experiences to a place they probably should not be. In part due to marketing, in part due to these travel rewards.

[B]

Yeah. Which is only amplified by influencers who are actually getting free things from these brands, making it seem as though this type of luxurious experience is accessible for everyone. If you just have the right credit card, hit the right spend, get the right points.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it might not be true.

[A]

Yeah. And so. So we're seeing all these premium lounges, these premium experiences and perks. And that's intentional because the banks have figured out that the more people spend, the more money they make with less effort. If you've got people who are just using a credit card and paying it off every month, using it responsibly, not putting a lot of money on there, they're not chasing the rewards. People who chase rewards, they spend more to get welcome bonuses, they spend more to get more points, they spend more in the right places. To maximize getting points. There's a reason why you get 5% on this and 2% on that and 1% on that. Right? That's intentional. So banks want to get more money out of their higher usage customers. And so that comes through premium. And they can also charge people more for it. So banks earn money off of us in multiple ways. So obviously interest. But I don't think, I mean, at least in our audience, paying interest isn't the problem. We always say pay off your card every single month, but you shouldn't think you're getting one over on the banks just because you do that. Because they're also getting money every time you swipe the card with a transaction fee. They're getting money with the annual fees. And so now these premium cards, they're charging almost $1,000 a year for you to have the privilege of being able to use a lounge every once in a while and. And to have a black car take you to the airport like that.

[B]

You have to still have to pay for it.

[A]

You still have to pay for it, but you have the privilege of getting a hundred dollars off of it. So, yeah, that is, we are seeing the shift to premium. So that because of all the data these banks have extracted from us over the years, that's where they see they can make the most profit long term. They don't make as much money catering to the average user, so to speak.

[B]

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[C]

I finally tried it and now I get the hype. I grabbed a bunch of clothes for my kids.

[A]

I.

[C]

All of which cost me with shipping and tax, less than $5 per item. And I didn't have to leave my house. I got their summer shopping done secondhand and was even able to chat with the seller live and requested that they list a jacket I saw in the background for me to bid on.

[A]

And I got it.

[B]

I do enjoy the community aspect. Sellers can show pieces up close, answer questions, and help you figure out sizing. And you're almost never paying full price. We've been using Whatnot and recommend it for getting the things already on your buy list.

[C]

Download the Whatnot app today and get free shipping on your first order. Just search wh a t n o t whatnot in the app store and start scoring amazing deals.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

quince.com frugal and even more insidious. Not that we've really covered that much insidiousness, but we're about to. Even once you earn those points, well, they don't even belong to you and might be taken away. Chase is closing my credit card and it seems that I'm not the only person this is happening to.

[A]

So here's what I found out so far.

[B]

First and foremost, if you think this isn't gonna happen to you, it definitely

[A]

could happen to you.

[B]

Because These are just DMs I received last night or the night before when I posted this on my social media,

[A]

which I do not have any type

[B]

of following on there.

[A]

Like I'm not an influencer.

[B]

Okay, I'm just gonna have to insert like a photo or a screenshot of

[A]

the letter that I got in the

[B]

email that I got because it's so vague. It's so stupid. The reasoning is non existent. It's just unexpected activity. A couple of days ago, Chase canceled both my credit cards without warning, without explanation, without any prior communication, and gave me absolutely no way of recourse. They indicated I would receive a letter within seven to 10 business days providing a rationale for the cancellation. I have received said letter. As many have speculated, the rationale for my cancellation from Chase was due to the FIFA video I posted in February. As a reminder, Chase Sapphire cardholders were supposed to get early access to FIFA World cup tickets. The website crashed. And as compensation for the inconvenience, Chase Sapphire cardholders were able to call up Chase, inform them of the situation, and request 5,000 courtesy points as compensation for the inconvenience. I made a video publicizing this fact. I will contend that many people who were entitled to said compensation did not become aware of the existence of the opportunity until they saw my video.

[A]

So these are just a couple examples of the many that I found that Chase reserves the right to cancel your account for any reason. And the first girl was one of those average users, but she had racked up a lot of points and she said at the end there was a lot of F words and I just did not have time to like, edit the whole thing. So they gave her fifteen hundred dollars. But she had saved up all those points for her honeymoon and she was planning to use them for multiple nights at an all inclusive. And she's like, what can I get for fifteen hundred dollars? Right. And the second one was an influencer for, like, travel reward points. And literally his sin was he told people about a way that Chase permitted them to get 5,000 points. Chase didn't want everyone to use that perk. Right. But it wasn't a thing that you had to be a certain person. They only wanted people who wanted to get FIFA tickets to use it, but they opened it up for everyone, so they punished him for talking about it. And Chase can do that. Chase can close your accounts and take away your points, take away your opportunity to build points at any time. Unless your points are transferred out to travel partners, they can close it all down. And they are for what they're calling rewards abuse. So, and I don't know what that means. Again, they're very vague on it and they're very vague for a reason, which,

[B]

yeah, it's not like having a savings account. It really is just you've got rewards, hopefully you can use them. Hopefully they don't get taken away, but they might. And there's a lot of language even in the contract around that how Chase could take them back. Could charge you if there's, yeah, some sort of abuse of points. And so it's not truly yours until it's either spent or transferred out. Which can cause us to question, okay, is it still worth having these travel reward credit cards? And we still think, yes, in some ways, but we are going to have to do it a little differently than we have in the past. We're going to have to be much more judicious and intentional with the way that we require these credit cards. And for what purpose?

[D]

Collecting airline points. Is it increasingly, well, pointless? Frequent flyers in the UK must go to greater lengths to earn points on flight bookings and credit card spending. As airlines tighten up the rules, you exchange points for perks like free airport lounge parties or upgrades enabling you to travel in comfort. But recent changes to the British Airways loyalty programme make it much harder to obtain gold, silver or bronze status. With advantages such as priority check in boarding and free seat selection. Travel a lot for work. You'll have a better chance. But points nerds are doubling down in their quest to get something for nothing. Those who spend a whopping 25,000 pounds on their British Airways American Express cards in the next seven months will be a whisker away from reaching bronze status. But spending vast sums to save money on flights just feels incongruous. The unwritten rule of point collecting is clearing your credit card balance in full every month to avoid being eaten alive by high interest charges. Some cards offer generous sign up bonuses and many points. Nerds will get even more points by sharing referral codes with their partner or spending on a shared card. Using your credit card company's online shopping portal can net you extra points. And I met one guy who made his wife return 200 quids worth of goods to John Lewis and then buy the same items again via a portal just to earn some extra points. The best cashback credit cards will net you around £70 a year if you spend and clear around £1,000 per month.

[A]

It is wild that you can't even achieve bronze status after spending $25,000.

[B]

Insane. And what we know based on the Olympics. Brown bronze is the bottom.

[A]

I'm sorry, I did, I looked it up. Bronze is the bottom tier. I was like, are they going backwards? Because this is British. Like I don't understand. Are they driving on the opposite side of the road because it's another country? No, it's the same. Yeah. And that you have to spend a thousand dollars a month just to get. I'm saying dollars, but she said quid just to get 70 back for the year. So this is what we're seeing in credit cards rewards now. And it means that if we do use them for travel rewards, the method's got to be all different. We have to do something different. Because the old ways of just taking the best redemption or taking the best welcome bonus and letting the points tell me where to go, it's not going to work because you've got too many annual fees and you've got points that are too devalued to make that worth it because you're not just going to be taking vacations off the welcome bonus anymore. You're going to have to spend on the card as well. And so, yeah, this starts with devalued points we're seeing across the board. And this is just the latest news from the hotel chain that I stay with almost exclusively. I have had this card in my wallet for the past five years and it is the Hyatt card. I know Hyatt has the. If you, if you've done any travel rewards, you also know Hyatt has some of the best redemption values. We've stayed at Regencies Park Hyatt. We've stayed at several of their all inclusives. Like I have just been staying at Hyatt almost exclusively the past five years.

[B]

Yeah, you're the Hyatt girl. You're Hyatt Jen.

[A]

I am Hyatt Jen. And next month they will be ra. They will be doubling the points needed to get at their bottom tiers. So we're looking at at least 30% increased on the most expensive nights. They're going from a three tier system to a five tier system. Reward nights in category two and five both increased by over 50% from current peak pricing. We're looking at category eight. Their highest is going to cost as much as 75,000 points per night. Right now, peak is 45,000 points per night. That's the most you'll pay really for any hotel night in peak season and we're going to see that increase to 75,000. So it's just, it blows my mind. If you have. This starts in May, so if you have Hyatt points and you do want to stay somewhere, I would say book it today because it doesn't have to be stays before May. You can book out as far in advance as you need to, but you need to have it booked ASAP if you want to get the current point valuations for what you have.

[B]

This just means that we're going to need to be planning our credit cards and our travel way in advance. Gone are the days that we can just rack up all the welcome bonuses of 13 different cards because with the fees that are now being associated with those cards, it's just not going to be possible for the average person. So we're going to need to decide what is it that we want to do in the next one to two years and which card is going to be best to help us get there. And actually have a strategy for it rather than, as you're saying, just collect the points and just see, spray and pray.

[A]

That was, I mean, that was such a great strategy. I had a Southwest card. I would always go for the Southwest Companion Pass. And I had a Southwest card for a while and one year they doubled the annual fee and I didn't pay it. Like I canceled it at that point. But it was, it was wild. Like the card didn't change at all. Southwest changed. They now went to assign seating and all that. But the card perks did not change. The annual fee more than doubled.

[B]

Yeah. And not only that, but the perks and points are becoming so much more complicated. For instance, you might get a $100 credit. That sounds really great. But it has to be spread over 12 months each in six month period. So it's $50 for the first six months, $50 for the next six months. And a lot of times you have to select that perk for it to be activated. You have to stay. So on top of getting all of these perks, and then for some of us who maybe don't live in a more urban area, a lot of the perks may not even apply to you. You might not be taking advantage of it. So that annual fee is not going as either.

[A]

Yeah, it, it's really, they're justifying these premium cards with premium experiences and premium perks. But they are perks most people will never use. Or again, you have to pay more money to use them because, oh, it's a, it's a $200 credit, but it's only $100 in the first six months and $100 in the next. And the whole thing, the minimum cost, you know, is 200. So you're definitely going to have to spend at least a. That's not a benefit, that's coercion.

[B]

Yeah, Chase is classic for that. I think they've got, you know, like a $300 hotel credit, but it's on a specific type of hotel and on a minimum night stay of like two to three nights. I'm not saying it exactly right. I'm like paraphrasing an approximate of what it is. And then these types of hotels are at least 250, $300 a night. So that credit is really not getting you very far. You've got to already be ready to spend at least $500 on a two night stay somewhere. So, yeah, you really do have to dig into the fine print. Again, we're not saying that, oh, every rewards credit card is out the door. Don't even do it anymore because there still are the perks of buyer protection and insurances that they can provide. But it doesn't mean that we have to be paying the premium level annual cost for these credit cards, especially if the perks are just getting diluted.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And not just because the points guy says it's the best value per point. I love the points guy. It's where I go to get all of my point information and I will recommend their points guides and their top cards, you know, like all the information they have. Highly, highly recommend checking out the points guide, the points guy if you are going to do credit card travel rewards. But just because they say it's the most valuable points doesn't mean it's the most valuable points for you. You have to look at what you are actually going to be doing and using and then taking that calculation down to what the value per point would be for doing a little bit of math. Like, for me, I love cruising and cruising is not great for travel rewards. And so, like, I'm finding that about myself. I'm like, why am I doing this when I'm at a point in my life where it just makes more sense for me to do this? And so now I'm looking into like a Royal Caribbean credit card. And if you go into any travel rewards website, they're like, cruise credit cards have the worst redemption value ever. And I was like, but it's the one I'm going to use. Like, it's the one I'm going to get. It's the best value for me because I'm already going to be spending this money. I'm not going to go. Like the other month we had to. We had to. I had a free Hyatt night that was going to expire. So we took a trip to Orlando just overnight for the kids to stay in, you know, a nice hotel. And that was something we didn't have to do, but we did because I had the free night. And you know what I ended up doing? Spending $80 in the hotel restaurant to eat there that like, over the time we were there. So they made money off of my free night. Yeah.

[B]

And I've been so bummed recently about the points redemption value because it used to be so good. But recently we've had to book rent cars on a few occasions. And I always check my points first of what kind of rental car can I get? And without fail, the, the value of just going to an Expedia or something is like a hundred dollars Less for the same car, same amount of time as it would be if I were to use my points for it. And then that's just stupid if I'm going to go and buy it through Expedia just because I don't love redemption value. What the heck is, is the value of having these points and what I can only use them on these certain things when they do a boost in point value. And so it, I think just like anything that we say on this show as far as frugality and bringing things into question, this is worth questioning. We can get ourselves into such a habit and a routine or our brains can become so loyal to a brand or we've had had such good experiences that we think that is so good. I'm never leaving, I'm sticking with it without ever re evaluating. Is it still so good? Does it still match my lifestyle? I might have traveled a ton, but now I got two kids. I'm not doing the same thing that I used to do or now my work is different or my lifestyle is different, you name it. We need to then be reevaluating our credit card usage, our point usage and whether or not it's still working for us. So I think that's step one. What am I currently using? Is it still working? Can I cancel this? What else exists? There are still really great credit cards that don't even have such high fees. And yeah, maybe one of we want to go to the cash back system. I just want to select that I get some cash back on these groceries or this gas and that's fine. So reevaluate, plan on what you're going to be doing over the next couple of years. Look for the credit card that is going to coincide with that and pay off the credit card 100%. None of this is worth it at all if we are carrying over a balance month to month and paying that interest. No ma'. Am.

[A]

Preach.

[B]

No ma'.

[A]

Am. Yeah, I think we really do have to reevaluate how committed we are to the credit card reward. I think every 10 years we see a shift. When something becomes successful, companies learn how to exploit it and exploit us. And it's been 10 years and, and we are being exploited.

[B]

Exploitation phase.

[A]

As frugal people, we don't want to give up a deal, right? If I can get the deal, why wouldn't I? If I could get the best deal, why wouldn't I? But we also have to ask, is it a good, like, is it a good deal for me? Like, is it an appropriate deal? For me.

[B]

And.

[A]

And that's something that you. We're not going to give any card recommendations. We could.

[B]

We thought about it.

[A]

Yeah, no, it was in the outline. We took it out because it's up to you. You have to plan around what you want, what you value.

[B]

We could have made money and we said no.

[A]

I hate it when we do that. I hate it when we say that.

[B]

Yeah, but you know, what is appropriate and good and we never have to evaluate. And I hate we keep this.

[A]

Yeah, the bill of the week. That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week. Hi, this is Beau from Connecticut. I am calling to talk about my bill of the week, which was buying new tires for my new car. I haven't had a car in. Oh God. It's been over five years because it was just too expensive. But I was finally able to save up for a car and I was able to buy the nice expensive tires. It was really expensive, but it was a great purchase and I'm really glad because I want to be safe driving in these New England winters. Anyway, thank you so much. Have a great day. Bye. Oh, Bo, that was the first thing I thought of when you said Connecticut and tires. I was like, yeah, you do need the good tires.

[B]

I love the amount of times that you use the word expensive. But just the joy coming through that you saved up the money you were able to guilt free spend on that thing and now the safety and peace of mind and comfort that you're experiencing as a result of that, that is luxury. Well done.

[A]

And maybe you put that purchase on a rewards credit card to get the welcome bonus, but even if you didn't, you saved and you're paying it off and you're not going into debt for it. And so we are so proud of you.

[B]

Well done, Beau. If anyone else is listening, if you're still here and you have a bill that you want to share with us, if it has to do with something expensive and you want to share that with us, or your name is Bill and you want to just call up and let us know what life is like today. Frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill, we can't wait. I don't know who needs to hear this, but you don't have to keep paying random bank fees just to have a checking account. Which is why we like Chime. It's fee free banking that actually feels like it's built for real people.

[C]

No overdraft fees, no monthly fees and tons of of fee free ATMs which is how it should be. Plus you can get 5% cash back with your Chime card on things like gas or groceries. My current self can really benefit from this.

[B]

Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.comfrugal that's chime.comfrugal it only takes a few minutes to sign up.

[A]

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[B]

Okay, you know that feeling when you already found a good deal and then you realize you could have saved even more? That was me before I started using Rakuten. Now it's just part of how I shop.

[C]

Same because with Rakuten you earn cash back and rewards on almost everything you buy. Like I'm already shopping at places like target, get CVS, chewy and eBay. So why wouldn't I get something back for it?

[B]

I even used it when booking travel on Expedia. It's super easy to use. Just sign up with your email and shop through the app or simply download the free browser extension. Then get your cash back paid out however you want it like PayPal or gift cards. I've been using Rakuten for years now and think everyone should have it downloaded.

[C]

Join for free at frugalfriendspodcast.com rakuten or download the Rakuten app to start saving money today.

[B]

And now it's time for the Lightning Growl.

[A]

I wonder who's going to come for us in the comments about travel reward.

[B]

Oh, this is next to me saying that I sold my house. This might be. This might be it because this is

[A]

a classically frugal topic. Yeah and so so something I will never come for. I Have decided I'm never going to come for thrifting, even though I do

[B]

think you already did. You did it.

[A]

I know, but I'm not gonna make like a. Like I'm, I'm done coming for thrifting because I would, you know, it's not worth the juice. Isn't worth the squeeze. And I'm not coming for book talk also juice, not worth the squeeze.

[B]

No way. You've abandoned that.

[A]

I really. Because if you're gonna be obsessed with books, I'd rather you be obsessed with books than social media. And I understand the two are combined, but I would rather you read, like spend half of your time reading in the other half on social media than a hundred percent of your time on social media. So these are two things. I'm not coming for travel rewards cards. Not on that list.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it is this strategic transfer of wealth from the regular people to corporations. And the more we spend on credit cards, the more retailers have to increase their prices to pay for transaction fees, but the more they're incentivized to increase their prices because we spend more when we are chasing points and the more

[B]

data that they're receiving from us, the better able to market to us. Yeah, it's just, it's slippery slope and

[A]

this is tied into a loyalty program like scheme that I am obsessed with. And so just like wait for that episode because I, I was in it until like 9 o' clock last night.

[B]

Oh my.

[A]

It was detrimental to my family. But anyway, we're in the lightning round and we're talking about our credit card strategies. Using this information. How are we moving forward?

[B]

Yes. So I do. Oh gosh, do I even say it? Are we about to be canceled?

[A]

No, we are not about to be canceled. I don't, I don't know why you're lumping me into this.

[B]

Because if one of us goes down, we both go down. You know this, Jen.

[A]

The show may go down, but I will keep my integrity intact.

[B]

I do have the Chase Sapphire reserve.

[A]

The reserve. The. How. How expensive is that? That annually? 800, $900.

[B]

We don't need to talk about it.

[A]

You let us know in the comments what it is right now.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's in the 900 range. It's sub 1000, but it might be like 9.95. Real close. Oh, yeah, I did. I had to pour over the perks to decide whether or not we were signing up for it. We did get it at the last big bonus. I think we got like 150,000 points. To sign up for it. And I poured over. Okay. I realized that the annual fee is raising, but what. What do I get? And being that we live in a city, it's not New York City, but a lot of the perks that are offered, I do use. So it did make sense for me. I don't know if it'll make sense at the next. Next annual renewal, but for. For everything that I have utilized, and I am one of those people who is mapping it out. Like, I know what I have for these six months. I know what I have for these six months. It's written down and your girl getting it 100. But I think over this past year, kind of logging. What is it actually like, though? Because they've removed a lot of the preferred lounges and the some lounges you can't even get into because they're so full. Because so many of us millennials think that this is the pathway forward to a good life. And then you can't even use those perks during the 30 minutes that you're in the airport for. So I'm starting to be a little bit sobered up to whether or not this is a card I'm going to keep.

[A]

Yeah, that's happened. When I was with you, we couldn't get into the lounge because it was full. Yeah. Yep.

[B]

And then not every airport is going to have a lounge. So I've got to look at where am I primarily flying? Which leads me to my next consideration. And I don't know, I haven't done too much of a deep dive into this, but, like, I might do an airline credit card and it might be frontier. Even though they aren't the greatest experience, they are who I fly pretty much every single time because I'm constantly back to Philly and constantly over to Cleveland. Like, once a month, I'm to one of those places typically to see family, and they are just the least expensive. And when I realize, oh, I could actually be getting points and getting these perks and flying for even less, something that I do regularly, that might be what I do next. It won't be sexy. It will not be sexy.

[A]

No.

[B]

But you know what? I'm in my mid-30s now, and nothing in life is sexy anymore.

[A]

Amen. Preach. I'm. I'm thinking the same with Royal Caribbean. Kai loves Royal Caribbean, and we are going on another Royal Caribbean cruise this year.

[B]

Kai loves Royal Caribbean. Like, he's. Like, he's tried so many. And this is. This is his cruise line.

[A]

And here's the thing.

[B]

We.

[A]

I actually do have status with Carnival from years of doing Carnival before we had kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I don't get to use it because last year my mom, she works for a cruise like travel agency and she booked us a Royal Caribbean cruise because that's who they use. And we took Kai, we left Atlas with my in laws and, and Kai was obsessed and we went on one of the smallest, oldest ship they have. This one is still. It's like the second smallest. Second oldest. The one we're going on this year and we're bringing Atlas. But when I said it was like, oh, do you want to go on a cruise next year? He was like, I want to go on a Royal Caribbean cruise point blank. And I started showing him Carnival cruise ships and he's like, like a Royal Caribbean. So now we are. We've been on one Royal Caribbean cruise in my life and we are now tied to them.

[B]

Okay, so is the point redemption? Do you think better to do a specific cruise line than to do just a travel rewards and then book a cruise through the travel rewards credit card? Have you like done that comparison?

[A]

I haven't looked because my mom gets such good deals through her work that it would not be, I don't think for me it would be worth it. And honestly, like, I'm just, I'm. I would just do it to get a couple hundred bucks of like on for onboard spending. And so like maybe we do rural Caribbean and then maybe I do the carnival. I can get them to do carnival one day and I'll do that one. So that's my goal. I did sign up for a Disney card because it gave you a 300 Disney gift card immediately. And I was going to use that to sign up for the marathon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I didn't even get into the room to be able to buy the marathon. This is my first time. This is a story for a different episode, but it has become just like lounge access. You have to honestly pay to play. If you don't sign up for their club run Disney, you're not going to get into the races you want. And so that for me it's like, we're done. Yeah, I'm done with you. Oh, yeah.

[B]

I'll believe it when I see it. You're. You're spitting fire though. You're just, you're dropping bombs.

[A]

But I have a $300 Disney gift card that I was going to use. It was a $150 annual fee for the card and then it came with a 300 statement credit and a $300 gift card. So 600 bucks.

[B]

Bucks.

[A]

And the 300 statement credit I don't have to use at Disney, but I have this Disney gift card that it's like, I don't know. We'll see. Merch is always all sold out by the time I get to the expo too, so I don't think I'm gonna buy any of that either.

[B]

They made such a cult. It's wild.

[A]

It is. But maybe there's a Florida resident ticket that I can get to get into the parks. I don't know. That's for another episode. Ah.

[B]

Thanks for listening, everyone and thanks for leaving us. Very kind reviews on the book. Like this one from Brooke. Loved the book. Originally hooked on their podcast and was nice to have things in one place. Audible book on Spotify too. Boom. That's it. Love it, Brooke.

[A]

I love it. Thank you so much for listening. If you are not subscribed to the YouTube channel, please head over to the channel and click that red subscribe button. It helps us spread this message further and wider, especially to the travel rewards cultists who will definitely come and, and give this video a boost with all the mean comments or the supportive comments. I don't know, maybe everybody is seeing this and we just like really haven't heard this conversation being had. Maybe we're just in the wrong spaces. But please subscribe and if you have read the book, leave a review. If you have not, buy what you love Book dot com. We hope you'll give it a listen and so you can figure out what you value and. And what credit card that will lead

[B]

you to see you next time.

[A]

Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.

[B]

The buyer protections, I just can't get over that.

[A]

But that's in every card. You can get a no annual fee card and get those buyer protections. You know, I mean it's not going to have like a welcome bonus or anything, but you'll get those travel rewards things on any no fee and insurances too. Yeah, it's got. I mean, I think it's probably for the travel rewards because there's plenty of travel cards with no annual fee. Yeah, they just have very crappy bone. They crappy redemption and points and that's, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I'm not traveling much anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So yeah, I do have to book those Hyatt hotels in the next couple days for that.

[B]

Is such a radar about Hyatt. That was always on my radar of, oh, maybe someday I would do Hyatt.

[A]

Hyatt was one of those things. I was like, this is so good and it is not going to be this good forever.

[B]

And so nothing good stays for long except for us. We're good and we're still here, right?

[A]

I think so. I don't know if we're getting better or worse.

[B]

That is a hard thing to self assess.

[A]

Yeah. At least we are not shilling out for shady financial products and brands for a dollar. Yeah. In that regard, I think we've kept our integrity.

[B]

Yes. We've maintained. Who knows, if we've not gotten better, we've not gotten worse.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

Good luck with that.