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- [00:00]
Jen
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- [00:23]
Jill
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Jen
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Jill
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- [00:45]
Jen
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Dr. Laurie Santos
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- [01:01]
Jen
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Paige DeSorbo
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Jen
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Paige DeSorbo
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Jen
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Paige DeSorbo
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Jen
To Alaska or Europe hey, it's me, Paige desorbo and I'm so excited to share my new shoe collection at DSW filled with my favorite styles and trends for spring. Because if you know me, you know I'm kind of obsessed with shoes. And by kind of obsessed I mean head over heels. You're going to love these shoes, so snag super cute styles like cute flats, fun heels and cool sneakers from the Page to Sorbo Collection right now at your DSW store or dsw.com busy work.
- [02:01]
Jill
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- [02:36]
Katie
Prolonlife.Com iheart Episode 493 is episode 292 the science behind how simplicity impacts your money. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity.
- [02:58]
Jill
And live richer life.
- [03:01]
Paige DeSorbo
Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.
- [03:07]
Katie
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen.
- [03:10]
Paige DeSorbo
My name is Jill.
- [03:11]
Katie
And today we are talking about simplicity and how it impacts your money cognitively. We have talked about minimalism and how that kind of affects your finances physically and mentally. And so today's is about simplicity.
- [03:33]
Paige DeSorbo
We love talking about simplicity.
- [03:36]
Jen
We do.
- [03:36]
Paige DeSorbo
So many of our episodes are about this and rather than just record another episode, we figured we'd just play you an oldie but a goodie.
- [03:43]
Katie
This was one of our most popular episodes from 2023, and since so many people loved it, then we say, why recreate the wheel?
- [03:53]
Paige DeSorbo
Because here's the thing, our cognitive bias towards complexity will continue to be there. So to be encouraged and motivated towards simplicity, to choose simplicity, we're going to need to keep having those reminders. Otherwise we're going to keep choosing complicated and chaotic.
- [04:10]
Katie
But before we get too deep in the weeds and make this introduction too complex, this episode is brought to you by studies. Studies show that people who piecemeal information from various sources can be successful, but they are typically more stressed. Anecdotal evidence shows that getting step by step information from a trusted source makes learning much easier and enjoyable. Cite Frugal, the Journal of Frugal Friends 2025. That's why we want to create a simple and affordable, comprehensive frugal personal finance course. That sounded like a complicated way to say we want to make a personal finance course that centers around the five pillars of frugality. So good stewardship of your money, time, physical spaces and natural resources, and number five, your food. So this personal finance course is now in pre order and we are gauging interest to see if this is something you want and also to see how you want it. Do you want want more of an education on frugality or do you want more of an education on the peripheral things around personal finance like retirement, investing, insurance with a more frugal slant to all of them? And so we're going to design the course around the people who buy it in pre order. It is available for preorder for one more week. You can get more information and Pre order at frugalfriendspodcast.com/frugal home.
- [05:48]
Paige DeSorbo
Super excited about this. I think it's a way we can simplify values based spending for people.
- [05:53]
Katie
Yeah, and it goes, it's essentially if you've read our book, buy what you love without going broke. This would be the next step. So we're going to have next steps on the podcast, but we wanted to create something that is not piecemeal, that is step by step and enjoyable from a trusted source.
- [06:16]
Paige DeSorbo
But let's get into this podcast episode.
- [06:19]
Jen
Yes, let's not, let's not waste any.
- [06:22]
Katie
More time if you're looking for a good episode to queue up afterwards. Episode 462 about willpower and self control. Also the recent one we just did about minimalism in your financial wellness. Very good ones to cube. Okay, let's get into it.
- [06:41]
Paige DeSorbo
This first article comes from happiness.com and gives us six reasons that simplicity is beneficial, like six key benefits of simplifying your life. And we're going to go through all six. I think I agree with all of them.
- [06:58]
Jen
Wow.
- [06:59]
Paige DeSorbo
I know, that's great. Yep.
- [07:02]
Jen
Yeah, that's very rare that we agree with all of the ones on a list. So good job. Happiness.com? i too agree with them. So the first one is to simplify to learn more about yourself. So when we did our spending makeover live in January, one, if not the hardest thing everyone said was actually figuring out your core values. And we think finding what you value is essential to spending money on things you love and saying no to the things that you don't. And that really, that is really hard. It's a simple thing to say, it's an easy thing to say. But when you are so used to focusing on other people and other things, it can be hard to focus on yourself in the ways that it matters. And so when you simplify, you really do give yourself more space to learn about yourself and to learn about those values and develop values based spending. When I was researching for this episode, I found an article on Psychology Today that wasn't like a list. So it wasn't really great for the purposes of the show. But it was of a woman who is Jewish by heritage but not by practice, and decided one weekend that they would, her and her son would observe the Sabbath. Like the traditional Jewish Sabbath that has, gosh, I think she said like 50 different rules. And she's like, I never observed it because the rules seemed so restrictive and just seemed like deprivation. And what she found when she followed all these rules, they were essentially forcing her to simplify. It was forced simplification and it almost felt indulgent. And that she had where her mind would normally just go to her phone or if she had a question, it would go to Google or she would call her mom like all these things that she'd normally use to distract her brain, she had to just sit with herself.
- [09:20]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah, I don't think we often give ourselves the space to do that and we don't have to. There is so much that can take up our capacities and energy and attention. And there is something within at least American culture of a hierarchy of value. The busier you are, I think there's a lot of movements pushing against that, but it's still ingrained in us. Like if you're busy, that means you're important. And so what that, what that then does and can lead to is not much time for process or reflection or enjoying the simple things in life, the beauties that are all around. But it's so much stress, overwhelm, fatigue. But then we just keep, keep going without even thinking about, well, what's causing this and what could shift and what do I actually want. And I really appreciated how the author pointed out too, in the beginning, before they even got into these six steps, just what they're noticing in themselves as they age, which I can relate to as I'm getting older, I think that there is this draw, pull, attraction to wanting less, wanting opportunities, exhale, wanting to know more about myself, the environment in which I came from, which I think you also see like a lot of people leaning into figuring out their ancestry or being more interested in the culture in which they came from, which I think is a really beautiful process that can happen as we age. I also like how they reference this aim at simplicity. It's not new. This is one of those ancient paths that many religious groups and cultures will follow, like from the monastic orders in the Middle Ages to modern day Amish people or Quakers. The simple living, the simple life is essential to some of these practices. And you know, we can take what works for us and leave behind what doesn't. But I think it's also really interesting and helpful to recognize that there are some practices that humanity has engaged with over the decades and centuries that is just good for humans. And so when we talk about simplicity, it's across the board of schedule and within our lives and just creating space to exhale. So all of that said, there's like, there's so much foundation, I think, to lay here, but then the. So now skipping to number two, that a simpler lifestyle, what we're talking about here, can lead to improved relationships. And they reference an essay by Amitai et Zioli. You were bravely. I was voluntary. Simplicity is what this essay is about. And how in that quest to push against the acquiring of material possessions, we are often more likely to focus on relationships. And so when spending excessive time on social media or being occupied just by being busy, oftentimes our relationships, those actually around us can suffer. And so when we reduce those things, it frees us up to spend more time with friends and family. But then they also reference when we give space for a pause and margin and we're experiencing more time with friends and family. It can also lead to a bit of editing of friendship groups. I have a good friend who was recognizing in her own life, kind of taking inventory and keeping a pulse on how do I feel after engaging with each of these friends, shout out to Ashlyn. She was describing that she was starting to notice that with like some hangouts, it was leading to like anxiety afterwards. And sometimes she felt like, so filled up and really like, like life was poured back into her. And I know we've said this before, it's not as if we don't have any relationships that have some form of like, depletion or need surrounding them, but at least intention with very life giving relationships. Like, you're not gonna create that pause unless you've got some of that curiosity and you've cleared some space for yourself to say, how did that interaction make me feel? What is this group of friends providing to me? How is this gonna benefit my life, even long term? I think it's a great thing to be focusing on, but we're not gonna be able to do that if we're just so cluttered.
- [14:02]
Jen
Right. It's so easy. Like you leave someone and you immediately will get on social media or thinking about, okay, what's for dinner? What's the next fill? Fill, fill our heads every single moment that we don't give the opportunity even for like uncomfortable thoughts. Yeah, like, yeah, that's so interesting. So this next one is that simple living boosts your bank balance.
- [14:31]
Paige DeSorbo
Oh, more alliteration.
- [14:32]
Jen
Yeah. So this one actually does have a study, According to a UK study from 2018, which questioned 2,000 people, which 1,000 is my minimum for including survey results. He said money worries affect 40% of the population. And so if you simplify. And I think that article really that I read yesterday really made me think about the indulgence of simplicity that we don't want to deprive ourselves. Right. And so sometimes simple living, minimalism, what have you, they are not the same thing, but they can be equated with deprivation, as can saving money. But really giving yourself over to the luxuriation of these, you just made it for it.
- [15:22]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah, I love you for it.
- [15:25]
Jen
Like all of the indulgences that simplification and minimalism and this stuff can provide. It just takes a mindset shift of like this woman sitting in her house. Like she got to read through so much more of a book than she would have because she's like, when I read, I think I should be writing because she's writing for Psychology Today. Obviously she's like, I feel guilty and I should be writing, but when I'm doing the Sabbath, I can't write. So I'm forced into further self care almost.
- [16:00]
Paige DeSorbo
Oh, that's so true. Like, just to sit and listen to music feels indulgent. But there is something very simple to that and it can clear up mind space and create.
- [16:12]
Jen
Yeah. And so we're.
- [16:13]
Paige DeSorbo
I love that perspective when we're creating.
- [16:15]
Jen
Like we're. When we're focusing on the indulgences and the luxuriation of simplicity. I am now we don't have to rely on spending money to fill those gaps, which we so often do when we feel like we need to treat ourselves. But there are other ways to treat yourself that almost feel like guilty. You feel guilty about doing.
- [16:44]
Paige DeSorbo
Yep. Oh, that's so true. Number four on here is living a simple life is great for your health. And they reference a study from 2014, which is just on the cusp of my standards for research studies, that they're 15 years old or newer. So we're right there, which is crazy. 2014.
- [17:07]
Jen
Oh man.
- [17:07]
Paige DeSorbo
Okay. Published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology where they found a link between materialism and they define that as valuing possessions and money and that connection to poor physical health. And another team from Knox College in Illinois also found an even stronger link between materialism and engagement in risky behaviors that could damage physical health, like drinking alcohol, smoking, drug use, and. And so then they're kind of saying it makes sense then that in the reverse of that having a more non materialistic attitude could lead to more positive health outcomes, which I think is wild. But I've also been thinking recently and having conversations with people about just some of the trueness. I'm making up my own word too, of that concept of more money, more problems, and money isn't the issue, like it's what we do with it. But I think that there is this principle where the more that you have, whether it's money or resources, the more responsible you are for those things. And there's a weight and a pressure, whether realized or unrealized, of what am I now going to do with these things that I've been entrusted with. The goal of frugality is to be good stewards of that. But if we've not created space for mindfulness and intentionality, I think sometimes that can lead to that subconscious, not realized weight and responsibility that leads to some of those risky behaviors, like, okay, well, I've got this and I'm not putting much thought into like, what am I going to do with it? And this is what the world is telling me is good and helpful and will be effective and efficient for my life. And. And then it leads to some of this. I mean, yeah, some of the craziest behaviors come from the wealthiest people. So there is like, there is a phenomena here.
- [19:11]
Jen
We're looking at you. Old Justin Bieber.
- [19:15]
Paige DeSorbo
Oh, no. I'm even thinking like the billionaires. I think that there's just something too. You just have an absurd amount of money and okay, I know that like no billionaires are like listening to our podcast, but like, you know, thinking of that on a smaller scale that the more that that's the focus of our time, energy and efforts. There is this strong link between then maybe not making the best decisions. If our aim is just collecting everything I can possibly collect and having all the luxurious materials in my home, then that type of mentality could lead to riskiers.
- [19:58]
Jen
Yeah, it's the materialism mentality, not necessarily the income growth mentality.
- [20:03]
Paige DeSorbo
Exact.
- [20:04]
Jen
Writing my first book, the no Spend Challenge Guide, I came across a study and at this point it probably falls outside your time limit. Whatever, we're all old. But it studied a group of people who had a lot of clutter in their homes, borderline hoarders. And then just on the same spectrum to people who didn't have a lot of things in their homes. And they found that the people who had a lot of stuff in their homes, like the spectrum kind of correlated to less emphasis on health. So the more stuff they had in their home, the less they tried to be healthy.
- [20:48]
Paige DeSorbo
Interesting.
- [20:49]
Jen
So that was another way that I found simplicity, like in your stuff really does help because we all know that health is wealth. And obviously being healthy does save you money in the long run too. Just for practice, practical reasons.
- [21:08]
Paige DeSorbo
I mean, I just don't have a lot of stuff on my own because I don't want to dust a lot.
- [21:11]
Jen
Oh, I hate cleaning. Yeah, I had to. Oh my gosh, I had to change the sheets on my bed more than once in a month. And I. I'm pregnant too. So like, it was just like I can't have too many beds in this house. Like you can't have too many bedrooms technically.
- [21:30]
Paige DeSorbo
Don't they say you should change your sheets every two weeks?
- [21:33]
Jen
Okay, we had this conversation before. We don't have to hide it. Who we truly are, we.
- [21:38]
Paige DeSorbo
Oh, yeah. I'm like every two months. But I think the standard last time.
- [21:42]
Jen
We talked about this, you said every month, and now you're saying every two months.
- [21:46]
Paige DeSorbo
I'm so nice.
- [21:47]
Jen
I'm starting.
- [21:50]
Paige DeSorbo
Okay, we're getting more and more into the true truth.
- [21:53]
Jen
We're gonna move on before you reveal anything else you don't want to. So number five is simplistic living means increased focus, which is so true. The more we have to focus on, the more we will just not focus on anything. And that's like we think we need to have all of these plates spinning at the same time. But the more you have, you're going to focus on none of them. Not even one of them is going to get your full attention. And this is why we talk so much about prioritizing and not trying to balance. Balance is a myth. Prioritize what's important to you when it's important to you. Change, switch it up as you need to, but prioritize focus. And that means you're probably not going to be able to work on 10 things at once. So simplify your goals, simplify your schedule your activities so that you can have reasonable priorities and be able to focus on them as needed.
- [23:03]
Paige DeSorbo
And the last one on here, number six, Living a simple life helps the environment. There is a symbiotic relationship between simple living and being good stewards of the space that we take up. As we are more content and need less, we consume less, which means less waste. I think of a big industry where we consume a lot. The industry itself utilizes a ton of energy and we often throw away is fashion and clothing. And so when we are not buying so much fast fashion, then we're not contributing as much to the textile industry, which is one of the biggest polluters. And it just leads to then more sustainability as we're not consuming and throwing away. And again, we've mentioned it before, kind to then like we're not then taking advantage of people either. Like there's both. There's the environment, there's the workers, there's all of it. Paying fair wages is a part of this equation. So there's so much interconnectedness between what benefits us, also benefits others. And when we can find that beautiful intersection, what an amazing thing.
- [24:24]
Jen
Yes. And Most of these that we read out do have like studies associated with them. So if you're interested in those, definitely check out the article. It will be in our show Notes.
- [24:34]
Paige DeSorbo
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- [24:48]
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- [25:02]
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Jen
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Katie
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Jen
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- [25:38]
Jill
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- [26:38]
Dr. Laurie Santos
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- [27:38]
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- [28:09]
Paige DeSorbo
And this next article that we're going to go through is how to simplify your life and spend less. And it came from Jen. She wrote it, you know, talking about it. Modern Frugality. It's her blog.
- [28:28]
Jen
It's so. I read other articles because I didn't want to be the person that uses their own article.
- [28:36]
Paige DeSorbo
But I'm here for it.
- [28:38]
Jen
It was the best one, you know, like it was. And maybe it was the one that said what I wanted to say. The best.
- [28:44]
Paige DeSorbo
Exactly. So there's tons of tips in here. We're each gonna go through three of our favorites, and I'm gonna pick first because I feel like you've got the upper hand on this one. Oh, wow. Okay. The first one is to declutter your home. We've already kind of identified this one already. But the less physical clutter that you have in your home, the more focus that you can have, the less you have to less time and energy you have to spend on maintaining and cleaning and replacing and fixing. And all of that saved time and money can lead to increased contentment, which then leads to less spending, which then leads to you being able to spend Your time, how you want to spend it. So decluttering. I know that we're all different. There's definitely a spectrum of what is the most beneficial for each one of us, what simplicity looks like, what minimalism looks like. But for me at least I can speak from my own experience. When my space is free of just clutter, the more I'm able to. Yeah. Focus on my task at hand, get into my work, not be as distracted and not, not even feel as stressed or overwhelmed. Even if I have a lot on my schedule, if my physical space isn't as cluttered, then I feel more able to engage with whatever my obligations or responsibilities are that day. So just here's your encouragement. It can be a lot of work at first, but once you put in the big effort, it's maintenance after that and it can make such a huge difference.
- [30:30]
Jen
Yeah. And one of the studies that we didn't cover that the last article referenced did state that participants in their study who had less clutter were able to focus better on tests. So that's just another like science reason that having less physical stuff affects your mind and also affects your ability to make financial decisions, make spending decisions. We don't think so much about that. But the more clutter we have in our space, in our mind, of course, the poorer our decisions are going to be financially.
- [31:10]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah. The more clutter we have in our finances, the less likely we are to want to look at it because it feels overwhelming. But even simplifying the way that our spending and finances and bill pay process looks like can also make us feel more confident and at ease in the way that we're navigating that aspect of our lives.
- [31:31]
Jen
Yeah. The next one for me, and this is one that's hitting me really hard right now personally, so you're being a.
- [31:40]
Paige DeSorbo
Little vulnerable before the lightning round here. Wow.
- [31:43]
Jen
Social media. I very much dislike social media. I really hate participating in it. I really hate consuming it and creating it. I think it can be really helpful, but I think it's few and far between that it's helpful. 95% of it is mind numbing entertainment, things that distract us from what's going on in reality. And then like 5% of it is very helpful content. So like there is good stuff out there on social media. Like I would never say that everything is trash, but so much of it is. And not trash, it's just so distracting and it is clutter. It is clutter. It's mind clutter. And so decluttering your social media, fasting from social Media. Whatever you feel like you need to do to get out of social media is going to help you simplify other things in your life by just simplifying that one thing. Like what's the one thing that's going to make other things down the line easier or unnecessary? I really think minimizing social media is one of those things because then you're minimizing ads that cause you to spend. You're minimizing seeing like your friends have new things that you want. They're not even trying to sell you, they just are having it, but you see it and then you want it.
- [33:21]
Paige DeSorbo
I want what she's at.
- [33:22]
Jen
Right. So it minimizes that aspect. But then it also minimizes just the habit of just picking up your phone and ignoring what's going on and like consuming social media. And that's so much of what I do that it's very hard to strike a balance between having a job, job like this where people want to see your face. Right. And it's like, good. This is how I make the, you know, the bit of money that I do make.
- [33:54]
Paige DeSorbo
The big bucks. The big bucks, billionaire, the big bucks.
- [33:58]
Jen
That I do make. So it's hard to like strike that. There is no balance. I'll just say it. There's no balance with me between like trying to show my face. I.
- [34:08]
Paige DeSorbo
It's like all or nothing. Like sometimes heavy, full on. Like we, we recently started dating and then other times it's like, ah, I don't know, we're on a break.
- [34:19]
Jen
Yeah. So that's how I feel about social media. So if you don't see me on.
- [34:24]
Paige DeSorbo
Social media, that's why I know. Oh, likewise.
- [34:28]
Jen
Goodness.
- [34:29]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah, we're just in a process of simplifying, you know. Yeah, that's what's happening. Okay, so the third one that I do love just related to simplicity. Number three, getting out of debt. I know we talk about this a ton. It's one of the biggest things we discuss when it comes to this podcast. But when we look at this from a lens of simplicity, I have to agree as well. And you reference in this article, it doesn't just mathematically make sense, but is also a mental and emotional weight lifted. Now we recognize this is a long journey. This isn't like a declutter your home this weekend getting out of debt. For many of us, this is a long haul decision that will often take years. So there's a lot that needs to go into that. But it does lead to freed up mental and emotional space, freed up finances and Just ability to now make decisions for investing for retirement or having maybe a little bit more discretionary income or just not, not worrying that much anymore. And that is an incredible benefit. So that's a great way to simplify as well.
- [35:43]
Jen
Yeah. And something I feel like I want to point out is that lately we've been getting a lot of questions about consolidating debt, which does have the benefit of simplifying. Right. So like what we're talking about is simplifying, but I think it's over advertised because it's advertised as a way to save on debt, but in reality saves you very little on debt. It just moves debt around and makes you think you've done something because you have simplified the problem. So that's not a bad thing. But you need to know what you're getting into. And like, we don't typically recommend debt consolidation because while it does simplify what the debt looks like, it is adding a level of complexity to your actual financial practice. So it's not like a simplification of when you pay off your smallest loan, that debt goes away. So this is one of the benefits of the debt snowball is that you can simplify what your debt looks like or what your bank accounts look like more quickly. So it's a quicker simplification process. Even though maybe it costs a little bit more mathematically, it does give you that simplifying part quicker. And so we would probably say do that instead of consolidating debt. If that's what you're thinking about. That's helpful. Yeah. My next one is number four. We're not going to go through every single one of them.
- [37:22]
Paige DeSorbo
I just know it just happens to.
- [37:23]
Jen
Be the last ones up front is what I did. Number four is learn to say no. And that that's going to offend some people.
- [37:34]
Paige DeSorbo
Are you talking to me?
- [37:35]
Jen
No, I'm not talking. You know how to say no. So but some people don't. And I think I grew up watching these people. So in my adult life, I say the first line. I am the type of person who says no first. I always say no first and then I take time to think about it and whether I want to change my answer to yes. So some people would say, jen, you should just say let me think about it first.
- [38:09]
Paige DeSorbo
You're too much on the other extreme.
- [38:11]
Jen
Yeah. So maybe I wouldn't recommend becoming me. But a lot of people start with lead with yes just out of insecurity, wanting to be a people pleaser. Oh, this is a perfect example. So last Week I took like a girls trip with our friends, Caroline Vensel, Alison Baggerly from Inspired Budget. Alison is a gem of a person and a people pleaser. And so there. I can't even remember what it was, but like, I think I was maybe road raging for a second and I won't repeat what I said, but we.
- [38:51]
Paige DeSorbo
Don'T have the explicit rating.
- [38:53]
Jen
Right. Allison was like, oh, like I always like give these people the benefit of the doubt or no, no, it was a social media thing. It wasn't road rage. Somebody was trying to like manipulate, manipulate her. I'll just say that. And she knew it too. She knew it, but she just wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Even though she knew what they were doing, she just wanted to say yes. Yeah. Because she wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. And you know, she's just a gem of a person. Right. Saying no to people who are trying to manipulate you does not make you any less of a gem.
- [39:35]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah. If that's what you're worried about. I mean, it sounds like the radical middle. Whether you find yourself on one extreme of leading with no or leading with yes, is that. Let me think about it. Either side could choose that pathway just to give yourself space, just a pause to identify, is this something I want to engage in? And I think, I mean, it sounds like a great way of living for Allison to just be a gem of a person. Like, then everybody likes you, everybody and everybody loves you. But if it hurts you, I think that's where it's time for some reevaluation. If you are always saying yes at the cost of yourself and your own wellbeing, then that's where we need to kind of identify some different patterns relating.
- [40:27]
Jen
Even if it doesn't always end up in you being a stressed, overtired people pleaser. If it's resulting in that more often than it is resulting in you being filled up, there's an issue. Cause there are a lot of important things that you have to do that aren't gonna fill you up, but they're important, so you have to do them. So if you're doing things for other people that are draining you as well that you don't have to do. Those things need to be cut out of your life. And it's not always, it's typically not people trying to manipulate you. It's typically really well intentioned people that really see that you would be a good fit for something and it's a good opportunity. But sometimes you have to say no. To good so that you can pursue great. And so you have to really either say no or say I'll think about it to really give yourself time to figure out is this good or is this great?
- [41:26]
Paige DeSorbo
And that's what leads to simplifying our schedules, which I think for many of us is where we all need the most work of how do I continue to kind of rein myself in from the vortex of busyness that will suck us in. I do think there needs to be active, intentional, perpetual awareness of the vortex of busyness. It will always want to suck us in and own us. So that saying no is what leads to some of that more simple schedule. I am going to jump all the way to the bottom of this. I'm done Going in order is plan a simple menu. I could not agree with this more and probably because you wrote it and I like you and our friends. But I think when it comes to activities that we have to do daily, like food, this is also where we can experience a lot of overwhelm and fatigue and can lead to the convenience purchases of eating out or ordering takeout, which isn't always the friendliest for our budgets or our money if it's not something that's been planned for. And so I think one way to get around that is to really simplify what we're going to eat at home throughout the week. That doesn't mean that it's bland or not fun or inedible, just simple, like paring down the number of ingredients that you need. You can still reuse and repurpose ingredients, but making it easier, more accessible for yourself will cut down on the amount of times that you feel like you need to eat out. It will have the decisions already made for you, so there's less of that decision fatigue and usually can lead to lower cooking times not taking up as much of your space and energy. For me personally, I think one of the ways that I do this is I'll change up a lot of what we'd eat for dinner, reusing ingredients. But my breakfast and lunches from week to week will look very similar. Like a breakfast. For me, it's two options. It's going to be a smoothie or some eggs and toast. And that's fine because I know I'm still going to get variety day lunches. I'll have two to three options on hand in any given week. So I feel like I have options, but it's not complicated. I'm not reinventing all of the time and then changing up week to week what the Dinners are going to be again. Still doesn't have to be complicated, but I have found the simpler that I can keep it, the more likely I am to eat at home and stick with it. Sometimes it's really fun to try the new thing and make a new meal every single night just to like keep our pack palettes tantalized. But that's not going to last long. There's no longevity in that. And we're not going to experience the benefits of simplicity in that way.
- [44:28]
Jen
Absolutely. I hate that I have to pick just one more from the list because it's like my people can go check it out.
- [44:36]
Paige DeSorbo
Check out your article.
- [44:37]
Jen
Check it out. There's some like, okay, so there's some really concrete practical tips, but I'm gonna go with one more non concrete one. And I know you guys hate that, but here I am. Five is focus on one thing at a time.
- [44:52]
Paige DeSorbo
I left that for you. I'm like, I did not steal her. One thing. That is Jen through and through. She has trademarked this thing.
- [45:00]
Jen
I am obsessed with the concept of and it's essentially just the concept of prioritizing to choose. Be intentional about the things that you are working on, the financial goals that you are working on, the life change goals you are working on. Be intentional and work on one at a time. Making small changes and working on one thing at a time is not sexy. We do not want to have gradual growth and change. We love a good overnight success. And that's just not reality. It's just not like if your New Year's resolution was to lose 10 pounds, pay off debt and have a smoothie every day. How's that going for you? Yeah, how is that going for you? I am sure not well. But if your New Year's resolution was just I want to drink 80 ounces of water every day, that's it. No other goals, nothing.
- [45:59]
Paige DeSorbo
Doesn't mean you're not doing anything else.
- [46:01]
Jen
Right.
- [46:01]
Paige DeSorbo
It's just not taking up the majority of your focus. Right.
- [46:04]
Jen
It's like one choose one thing that can help multiple other things. So like just keeping on the water. I know that's not financial, but water can help you get your cravings under control. So it'll help with food. It can help you get your hormones and your water weight fluctuations under control. So it helps with that. It helps with so many other different things. Yet it is one thing. It is just one thing. And it's much easier to do than focusing on all these big higher level goals. So yes, your goal may be to pay off Debt. But what are the actions that are gonna take you to get there? Okay, think about those and then pick one to focus on at a time and really dig into it until you feel like you've mastered it and you can move on.
- [47:00]
Paige DeSorbo
Yes.
- [47:00]
Jen
That is focusing on one thing at a time and that is what's gonna move the needle. We can't all be overnight success stories. If it happens, cool. But don't plan for that. Don't plan to be an overnight success story.
- [47:16]
Paige DeSorbo
And really the journey is so much more.
- [47:21]
Jen
Oh my God, yes.
- [47:22]
Paige DeSorbo
Than the destination.
- [47:24]
Jen
When you become an overnight success, you miss out on all the learning and growth that the journey provides. So it's really. You miss out on a lot. So plan to be average. Plan to be normal.
- [47:36]
Paige DeSorbo
Do you know what my very average one thing is to the exclusion of all other things. This is a one thing, nothing else. But whereby doing. We, we, we, we gain so much and.
- [47:50]
Jen
But I think it was an overnight success. I mean it's one thing.
- [47:54]
Paige DeSorbo
This one is the like the destination.
- [47:56]
Jen
Yeah.
- [47:56]
Paige DeSorbo
The journey. The bill of the week.
- [48:09]
Jen
That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.
- [48:17]
Jill
Maybe you paid off your mortgage.
- [48:19]
Jen
Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton.
- [48:26]
Paige DeSorbo
This is the bill of the week. So I'm Katie from Scotland.
- [48:32]
Jen
This month I cleared my online banking over overdraft for which I was being charged monthly. I transferred the balance to 0% credit card, so now I can pay off my credit card without the monthly charges I was getting. While I was in my overdraft, I was being charged 30 pounds a month which will now just go off to paying off that debt. Thanks. Isn't it so interesting when you start to look at your finances and you find things that you don't want to find? Like you're being charged $30 a month. Month for overdrafting. That's crazy. But now, Katie, you took, you were brave and you went in there like Merida. I envision that you are like Merida because I like Disney. And you just went in there and you said, no more. I'm transferring it. And now I'm going to use this $30 a month to pay off my credit card.
- [49:27]
Paige DeSorbo
Yes. Well done, Katie from Scotland. Jen is being quite imaginat.
- [49:33]
Jen
I don't even know where Scotland is where that movie takes place. And I'm so sorry if it's not.
- [49:39]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah, here we go. She was Irish Maybe she was Scottish. Okay, we're gonna figure that out, Katie, but mostly we're focused on you and yeah. How you paid off your credit card. You no longer got these overdraft fees happening. So just well done. What do you got, Jen?
- [49:56]
Jen
She is voiced by a Scottish actress. It's from obviously a made up place place. So we're going to say, we're going to say Scotland.
- [50:05]
Paige DeSorbo
Okay, we're going to go with Scotland. You, you win, Katie.
- [50:09]
Jen
Sorry Katie.
- [50:09]
Paige DeSorbo
Thanks for sharing your bill of the week. If you all listening want to share your bill. If it has anything to do with like a Disney movie character slicing and dicing some overdraft fees or paying off credit cards or. Or your name is Bill. I don't know how many times I have to say this. Visit frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill, leave us your bill.
- [50:33]
Dr. Laurie Santos
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- [51:33]
Amex Representative
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- [51:48]
Jen
This is so good.
- [51:49]
Amex Representative
And to finish strong, the freshest sushi spot with up to 100 back annually on eligible purchases at US US fresy restaurants. What a day. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Cap applies. Learn more@American Express.com with Amex.
- [52:04]
Jen
Hi, this is Debbie, your blinds.com design consultant.
- [52:07]
Amex Representative
Oh wow, a real person.
- [52:09]
Paige DeSorbo
Yep. I'm here to help you with everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to.
- [52:14]
Jen
I've got a complicated project. No Problem.
- [52:18]
Paige DeSorbo
We make the complex simple. And I can even help. Schedule a professional measure and insert.
- [52:23]
Jen
I didn't realize you did that.
- [52:24]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah. We can also send you samples fast and free.
- [52:27]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Wow.
- [52:28]
Jen
I mean, I always thought I needed a designer to come to my home, but scheduling's always a nightmare.
- [52:34]
Paige DeSorbo
Not with blinds dot com. We're on your schedule and there's no haggling, no pressure, no hidden fees either.
- [52:39]
Jen
Hmm. I just might have to do more.
- [52:41]
Paige DeSorbo
Oh, okay. Whatever you need.
- [52:43]
Jen
How about you tell me what you had in mind? Okay then. So the first room we're Looking at is. Blinds.com has covered over 25 million windows, all backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Shopblinds.com now and save up to 45%. Site wide rules and restrictions may apply.
- [53:03]
Jill
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- [54:10]
Paige DeSorbo
Off. Now it's time for.
- [54:17]
Jen
I don't think I have to get any more vulnerable because I already got vulnerable. No, no. Okay.
- [54:23]
Paige DeSorbo
No, it doesn't work that way. You chose vulnerability. This is now chore vulnerability.
- [54:29]
Jen
Okay, so what's something in your life that has been hard to simplify? And I think you should go first.
- [54:38]
Paige DeSorbo
Uh huh. I feel like. Did you write this question or was this a Goldie question?
- [54:44]
Jen
This is me.
- [54:46]
Paige DeSorbo
Oh my schedule. This is so vulnerable. Because I would love to say that I'm just like crushing simplicity and maybe I'm doing that in my possessions and just like getting rid of things, but I'm not crushing it. My schedule.
- [55:05]
Jen
The nicer you are and the more of a gem of a person you are, I think the harder it is to simplify the schedule.
- [55:13]
Paige DeSorbo
The thing about it for me is I don't think, I don't feel as though I am just bending to the will and needs of others. There is a true tension for me. We were talking about this even before we hit the record button today. Where I want a lot of things, it is mostly a me problem where I want all of the things. I want rest and opportunities to explore my hobbies and things that are life giving to me and I want to grow this business and pursue other types of careers and I want to host people and I want to hang out and I want to build community. Like, I just want all the things. Like I want to say yes to it all. Not. Not because I feel like I'm placating someone or something. It just truly is what I want to do. So that has been and potentially will be a forever and always thing to navigate of still sincerely keeping a pulse on. Okay, but what is going to be best for me? What is this going to cost me? Not just monetarily, like, what will this cost me in my energies and capacities? What will that potential steal from something else? Like if I choose to go all out just in the social world, then there is a cost benefit analysis to that. There's an opportunity cost and that means projects aren't getting done at my house. Or if I go all in on projects, that means community is not being found. So it's. There is such a tension and I'm sure there's plenty of people listening who like want to collect all the things. You just want to do it all. And it's all so appetizing and appeal and fun and enjoyable. So really deciding how do I want to spend like the 24 hours that's been allotted to me and creating some space to keep a pulse on how is this impacting me? Was that a good choice or would I want to shift or morph that in the future? Yeah, I'm not there. I don't know that I ever will be there.
- [57:28]
Jen
Yeah, I don't think. Especially because your value's so like very much aligned with what you were just saying. Like to be healthy in your values creates like the perfect schedule. But nobody is perfect or perfectly healthy.
- [57:45]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah.
- [57:45]
Jen
So it's always something that you'll have to keep a pulse on.
- [57:49]
Paige DeSorbo
I think I have also. I'll just say this and then I'll be done in case it's fruitful for anybody Else. But I think I've realized that I had a narrative going that go, go, go, go, go was not good for me. Mostly because of what I think is talked about. Like, just being busy isn't. Isn't good. And I would partially agree with that. But then to also realize maybe that narrative is what's mostly unhelpful. Like, I love spending time with people that is actually life giving. What if that's a form of rest for me where I might have this very, like, idea of, oh, this is what rest is. It's only sitting down in complete quietness, reading a book. That's what rest is. But to come to realize that might be somebody's rest, but for me, my rest can look different. And usually for most of us, we've got a lot of different forms of rest. So I think it's been taking a lot of the pressure away from myself. The things I put on myself to say this might feel like a lot. And maybe others would look on the way that I live my life or spend my time as like, that's just too much. But it might be too much for that person and what's valuable for them. But for me, it's okay and it's not hurting me. And if anything, there's aspects of it that are life giving. So that's been a whole other kind of realization and mostly helpful for me to not just get bummed that I filled my space and time with people and things that I really enjoy. That can be okay.
- [59:34]
Jen
That's lovely. Lovely. That's great.
- [59:36]
Paige DeSorbo
What about you get vulnerable?
- [59:37]
Jen
Well, I mean, I'm gonna. Is it a cop out to say the social media thing again?
- [59:42]
Paige DeSorbo
No, do it.
- [59:43]
Jen
Cause that really does plague me. I was off social media entirely for about three months, and then people kind of convinced me to get back on. They're like, it's free marketing for your podcast and your business, and we're going for a book deal and every publisher wants to see. You're active on social media. Like, it's just so sad.
- [60:09]
Paige DeSorbo
I feel like I hear this from you. Like, there's always. There's a cycle of, I'm leaving it. This is good for me. Then you get into some mastermind group and they're like, shaming you into getting back on. And then you're like, I know that they're right. And you do crush it. You post some really great stuff. You're funny, you're a gem, you're witty, you're insightful. You've got a lot to give. And I Think that's especially in this space. Right. Where there's like a business connected to it. That's a big component. There's gotta be a radical middle. And we're partially now getting into business meeting here.
- [60:44]
Katie
Yes, we'll find the radical.
- [60:46]
Jen
We will have to find the radical middle. Yeah. So that's, that's kind of where I'm at. I just, I don't have strong enough boundaries or self discipline to not get sucked into to is for sure. Like, yeah, I could be more disciplined, but also I can give myself grace for just being not perfect.
- [61:17]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah.
- [61:18]
Jen
So that's where I'm at.
- [61:20]
Paige DeSorbo
Agreed.
- [61:25]
Katie
Listening back to that lightning round about being stressed to be on social media a hundred percent. Still a struggle.
- [61:38]
Paige DeSorbo
Still a thing.
- [61:39]
Jen
Still a struggle.
- [61:40]
Katie
I think we're getting closer to a radical middle. It's so weird to hear like we were trying to get a book deal and yes, that was important. We had to do. We had to. Like it was not an option. And it did impact our activity on social media. Did impact the book deal we got. And we got a good book deal. And so now. Yeah, and it's still one of those, like when we talk about the one thing, what's one thing you can do to make all other things easier or unnecessary? Social media kind of ties into that. I think we've decided YouTube is that one thing for us this year because it makes social media easier and it is an integral part of our growth.
- [62:30]
Paige DeSorbo
I think part of our radical middle that we've found in social media is me taking on some of the social media management. To everyone's full shock and surprise, you.
- [62:44]
Katie
Are the one that initially did the Frugal Friends podcast. Instagram, in those early days, you made a graphic for every episode.
- [62:52]
Paige DeSorbo
Oh, that's right.
- [62:53]
Jen
You started.
- [62:54]
Paige DeSorbo
Right.
- [62:56]
Katie
And now you're just coming home is what it is.
- [63:01]
Paige DeSorbo
I still can't stand Instagram, but if I'm gonna do it, this is the best case scenario for it. I actually prefer to engage with Instagram as Frugal friends than I do on my own personal account. I am not one who's just posting whatever. I really like giving helpful and entertaining content. So when I've been able to come at it with that framework and lens, it has really lowered the barrier to entry for me.
- [63:35]
Jen
Yes.
- [63:36]
Katie
And I have enjoyed taking our YouTube videos and making those into reels because that is very easy for me.
- [63:46]
Paige DeSorbo
I love that. Look at us together. We find the radical middle.
- [63:51]
Katie
We find it in community. I think we don't find it in isolation.
- [63:55]
Paige DeSorbo
Agreed. Thank you all so much for listening to this podcast. Thank you also for reading our book, maybe even listening to our book, because it is an audio format and those of you who have read the book have been leaving such kind reviews. So we've been wanting to give some space to reading the reviews of our book. Like this one from Jack, 1:35 stars says an absolute gem of a book that's focused on spending. I love this book so much. It's a breath of fresh air from other personal finance books. The focus is not on budgeting or baby steps and instead is on understanding values and all of the things that trigger spending. If you already have your budget, this book is the next step to think more about spending habits. It's worth coming back to reread and reference Jen and Jill's words. The writing is non judgmental. For a reminder, when I'm struggling with shopping, one of the biggest takeaways, retail therapy can feel like the one thing we can control when things are chaotic. Also, check out their podcast, Frugal Friends.
- [64:59]
Jen
Yes.
- [64:59]
Katie
Thank you so much Jack. The funny thing is that so many people have said that the book is shame free and non judgmental. That those are some of the words Amazon has used in the biggest like what people say most shameful, judgmental, but.
- [65:22]
Paige DeSorbo
Yet every other word or shaming doesn't align with that.
- [65:25]
Jen
Right? Yeah.
- [65:25]
Katie
Like it's hilarious.
- [65:27]
Paige DeSorbo
Powerful, helpful values based spending shaming. It's like, oh, they're probably saying it's non shaming.
- [65:36]
Katie
It's hilarious. Thank you so much, Jack. Thank you for listening. Thank you for reading the book. If you have not gotten your copy of buy what you love without going broke, please head to buy what you love book.com. we also have instructions on there for requesting it at your library, so. And if you have, please leave a rating and review for the book on Amazon. Goodreads Review for the show on Spotify or Apple. All of it helps us in spreading this message to more people.
- [66:10]
Paige DeSorbo
See you next time.
- [66:11]
Katie
Bye.
- [66:14]
Jen
Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.
- [66:27]
Paige DeSorbo
Okay, Jen, I figured it out.
- [66:30]
Katie
Ooh, what'd you figure out?
- [66:31]
Paige DeSorbo
I am sitting over here with a smelly shirt. Oh yeah, my shirt smells.
- [66:37]
Katie
I can't smell it.
- [66:38]
Paige DeSorbo
That's very good. Yeah, I think you'd have to be as close as my nose is to my shirt to smell it, but I am constantly getting whiffs of something and then I real first of all, I didn't realize where the smell was coming from. Then I realized it's my shirt. And now I'm like, why does my shirt smell? And I think I've come to the answer. So this is actually like an elongated sports bra that I'm wearing. And during the hurricanes, we stayed with friends who were not in a flood zone, but they have a part of their property that becomes like a little pond when it rains a ton. And before the winds got really bad, we went swimming in the water that becomes a pond on their rocky.
- [67:29]
Katie
My face has changed from intrigued to alarmed. Alarmed.
- [67:35]
Jen
Yeah.
- [67:37]
Paige DeSorbo
And then. So it was like a bathing suit top for me then. Then we showered, rinsed off the top in the shower, but left. Left it at their house. Didn't remember to pack it back up with us when we moved our whole lives back into our home after the hurricane and then didn't get this shirt back from them until at least two months later. I did wash it, but I'm thinking it sat so long in pond water, or like the remains of pond water water, that it is still holding on to the stench of it despite having been washed. And this is now the first time that I'm wearing it, realizing, yeah, it.
- [68:25]
Katie
Didn'T wash out because of your all natural washing.
- [68:31]
Paige DeSorbo
Going for the jugular. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe the length of time is to blame. Maybe my homemade laundry detergent is to blame. I'm gonna go with length of time time sitting in pond water.
- [68:48]
Katie
I'm just thinking, like, I wouldn't let my children swim in pond water, like.
- [68:55]
Paige DeSorbo
Just ever under any circumstances.
- [68:59]
Katie
I mean, it's a.
- [69:02]
Jen
They.
- [69:03]
Katie
They make those to be, like, those little retention ponds. And so there can't be good stuff pooling up in there, like, throughout time. And then it just pools in and it's all gross. And then the rain comes and just softens it so you can't see it. It's all still in there, though.
- [69:25]
Paige DeSorbo
Well, it wasn't. There was no water in it before the hurricane. Right. So I could see the bottom. I could see it.
- [69:34]
Jen
What was there?
- [69:35]
Paige DeSorbo
Grass. I would listen. I didn't stay in the water long. It was a quick little. The world is crumbling around us. But you know what? We can swim in this two feet of water over here for two.
- [69:50]
Katie
It was two feet.
- [69:51]
Jen
Oh, yeah.
- [69:52]
Paige DeSorbo
It was not. What'd you do? We just, like, sat there for a minute.
- [69:56]
Katie
All of this seems so bizarre to me.
- [70:00]
Paige DeSorbo
When the world is crumbling around you, Jen, you take what you can get. Listen, you took videos. Hold on. In the midst of a hurricane, sitting on the front porch just watching pumpkins float by.
- [70:15]
Katie
I did.
- [70:16]
Paige DeSorbo
And that was taking what you could get. Just the simple pleasures of life.
- [70:20]
Katie
There is so much different me noticing something funny and taking a video of.
- [70:26]
Paige DeSorbo
It and you noticing an opportunity for fun.
- [70:30]
Katie
Noticing two feet of standing wall water and walking into it.
- [70:34]
Amex Representative
Yeah, okay.
- [70:36]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah. It is a choice I made.
- [70:39]
Katie
I'm glad you're now.
- [70:40]
Paige DeSorbo
I am still experiencing the consequences because this shirt smells.
- [70:45]
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Jen
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Paige DeSorbo
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Jen
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