TikTok is MAKING YOU LONELY | The Cost of Isolation Culture

Summary

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Frugal Friends Podcast

Episode Title: TikTok is MAKING YOU LONELY | The Cost of Isolation Culture

Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Date: October 10, 2025

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Main Theme & Episode Purpose

This episode explores the growing "isolation culture" fueled by social media, specifically TikTok, and its far-reaching consequences—including its impact on our finances. Jen and Jill candidly discuss the “loneliness epidemic,” the manipulative nature of parasocial relationships, and why fostering genuine, offline connections is crucial not just for our mental health, but also for keeping our wallets intact. The discussion moves from research and personal stories to actionable strategies for cultivating real relationships in an increasingly digitized world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Paradox of “Connection” in the Social Media Age

• Social Media’s Empty Promise

  • Social media platforms like TikTok claim to foster connection, but often leave users feeling lonelier after long scrolling sessions ([01:28]).
  • Quote (Jen, 01:28): “Social media promises connection. But more and more we are realizing that it’s just making us feel lonelier.”

• The Loneliness Epidemic

  • Popular hashtags like #lonely have over 13 billion views on TikTok, with most content expressing negative emotions ([04:26]).
  • Research: “No videos were made by healthcare professionals or healthcare organizations offering health information or support.” (Jen citing Oxford Academic, [04:39]).

• Interpersonal Impacts

  • Excessive social media use is correlated with fewer meaningful interactions and lower self-esteem, especially among youth ([05:46], Jill).

2. Real Stories: The Emotional Toll

• Personal Testimonies of Isolation

  • Inserted audio from a young adult describes attending events, making efforts, but still struggling to form real connections ([06:32]-[08:07]).
    • Quote (Lonely Young Adult, 07:24): “At some point, we have to do something. Like, we have to move forward, and I don’t know how to do that. And I feel really alone.”

• Glorification versus Reality of Solitude

  • There’s both content glamorizing independence and honest confessions of loneliness, revealing a cultural tension ([09:03]-[10:18]).

3. Why Isolation Makes Us Spend More

• Needs-Based Marketing

  • Brands exploit loneliness, selling products as a way to meet social needs ([12:06], Jill).
    • Quote (Jill, 12:06): “The most successful businesses are not selling us things, they are selling us needs.”

• Maslow’s Hierarchy and Vulnerability

  • Even when basic needs aren’t fully met, our drive for connection makes us susceptible to parasocial influence ([12:41]).

• The Psychology of 'Procrastispending' and Short-Term Thinking

  • Social media-induced isolation and anxiety drive impulsive purchases—ordering takeout after a tough day, buying unneeded products to soothe insecurity ([14:21]-[15:40]).
    • Quote (Jen, 15:40): “When our decision-making skills plummet ... we are using the anxious, short-term thinking part of our brain over the rational decision, like, long-term decision-making part.”

• Impaired Cognitive Resources

  • Isolation can lead to cognitive decline and poor sleep, exacerbating impulse spending ([15:40]-[19:22]).

• Parasocial Relationships Fuel Overspending

  • Viewers treat influencers’ endorsements like personal advice, lowering skepticism and leading to unnecessary purchases ([21:17]-[24:04]).
    • Quote (Jill, 21:22): “Parasocial bonds can feel like real friendship, where people can kind of treat product endorsements from influencers like advice from a trusted friend.”

4. From Social Media to AI: The Forecast Gets Bleaker

• AI as the Next Isolation Engine

  • Insights from a recent Microsoft AI conference: within 12-18 months, AI will act as personalized companions, deepening the isolation-marketing spiral ([25:01]-[26:58]).
    • Direct Quote from Microsoft CEO, relayed by Jill (25:01): "Everybody is going to have their own personalized AI companion ... something that is evolving ... a companion, something that is in your corner as a support."
    • Quote (Jen, 26:09): “We are personality engineers, engineering tokens that create, create feelings that create lasting, meaningful relationships.”

• The Danger: Blurred Lines Between Marketing & Friendship

  • AI “friends” will be platforms for advertising—harder to distinguish between genuine support and sales pitches ([27:00]-[28:17]).
    • Quote (Jill, 28:17): “Where there is trust, there is increased spending ... how easy is it ... for that AI companion to sell to us?”

• Solution: Real-World Relationships

  • The antidote is to invest in real friendships—offering genuine support and feedback unavailable from digital “companions” ([29:55]-[31:45]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Isolation Anxiety:

  • Jen (10:53): “It’s easier to scroll than to text a friend ... I am constantly actively trying to form relationships and also being anxious about like, does this person want to form a relationship with me?”

• On Procrastispending:

  • Jen (19:00): “When you have a problem and instead of doing something to actually solve the problem, you spend money on something that could solve the problem and the problem does not get solved.”

• On Initiation and Building Friendships:

  • Jill (35:25): “There is a reality to being a little uncomfortable. Yeah, you’ve got to be willing to be a little awkward, to take the risk, to be the one initiating.”

• Advice for Making Friends:

  • Jen (37:45): “I’m gonna say get the number because if you get the social media handle, you can create a false parasocial relationship with that person before you truly get to know them ... Take the phone number. Be awkward. ... Stop trying to be cool. Nobody wants to be cool anymore. We just want to be friends.”

• Genuine Friendship Between Jen & Jill:

  • Emotional exchange after discussing the meaning of their partnership, with both expressing deep gratitude for each other’s support in tough times ([55:33]-[56:22]).

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Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Topic | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 01:24 | Main episode starts: Social media & loneliness | | 04:06 | How significant is the loneliness epidemic? | | 06:32 | Young adult’s testimony about adult loneliness | | 09:03 | Contrasting: enjoying solitude vs. feeling isolated | | 12:06 | Relationship needs and their exploitation by brands | | 14:21 | Psychological impacts: short-term thinking & spending | | 15:40 | Anxiety, cognitive decline, “procrastispending” | | 21:17 | Parasocial relationships & financial consequences | | 25:01 | Microsoft AI conference insights about AI companions | | 29:55 | The solution: build real-world relationships | | 31:45 | Real stories: Taking risks and making new friends | | 35:25 | The discomfort and necessity of taking social risks | | 37:45 | Practical tips: Exchange numbers, not just socials | | 44:23 | How hosts connect offline in practice | | 48:35 | Small gestures to nurture existing relationships | | 50:07 | Building community through shared spaces (church, etc.)|

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Actionable Takeaways

How to Combat Isolation—Financially & Emotionally

• Make Initiation a Habit:

  • Go beyond attending events: actively follow up with new acquaintances, get phone numbers, and propose hangouts ([35:25]-[37:45]).

• Put in the Effort:

  • Real relationships take nurturing; start with small gestures like thoughtful texts or sending a photo ([47:48]-[49:39]).

• Diversify Sources of Connection:

  • Seek community where you spend significant time: faith groups, work, shared-interest clubs ([50:07]).

• Guard Against Digital Manipulation:

  • Be aware of how social and AI-driven “friendships” can lower your guard for marketing ([27:00]-[28:17]).

• Prioritize IRL Over Influencers:

  • Replace some screen time with real-world connection to reduce exposure to anxiety-inducing content and parasocial shopping pressure ([29:55]-[31:45]).

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Most Memorable Listener Stories

• Initiative to Make Friends:

  • A young woman organizes a tea shop meetup via Facebook, feels energized and successful after (“If this is your sign to just take the initiative and make friends that way, please do, by all means.”) ([31:49]-[33:17])

• Friendship in Midlife:

  • Story of a 53-year-old forging a new deep friendship with a 37-year-old, showing that bravery to reach out transcends age ([33:54]-[35:25]).
    • Quote: “Age has nothing to do with connection ... If one of us hadn’t been brave enough to put ourselves out there, this incredible coffee date wouldn’t have happened.”

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Closing Thoughts & Emotional Highlights

• Realness & Vulnerability:

  • Episode ends with Jen and Jill expressing love and appreciation for each other's friendship—a touching reminder of the value of deep, loyal connections ([55:33]-[56:22]).

• Authenticity Wins:

  • Reminder that nurturing true friendships might feel awkward, but is ultimately essential and rewarding.

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In the Hosts' Own Words

Jen (closing, 53:32):
“I think it’s super valuable to have some parasocial relationships. They can be an escape as long as they don’t become a substitute ... if you’re enjoying this version, please do subscribe ... queue up ‘TikTok is ruining hobbies’ next—hot take.”

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Summary Table: Practical Steps

| Challenge | Solution/Action | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------|-----------| | Loneliness from social media | Put phone down, reach out to someone IRL | 10:53 | | Feeling isolated after moving/career| Organize or join local meetups, follow through | 31:45 | | Shallow parasocial relationships | Exchange numbers, initiate coffee/tea meetups | 37:45 | | Forgetting to nurture friendships | Schedule texts, small check-ins, event invites | 47:48 | | Susceptibility to social anxiety | Practice small risks, accept some discomfort | 35:25 |

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Conclusion

“TikTok is MAKING YOU LONELY” is a timely and deeply honest conversation on the cost of digital isolation. Jen and Jill blend vulnerability, research, and practical wisdom, making a compelling case for fighting modern loneliness with deliberate, awkward, beautiful real-life friendship. If you’re feeling disconnected—or your Amazon cart is a bit too full—this episode is the empathetic push toward building something real.

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Listen if you:

• Feel isolated despite “connecting” online
• Want to curb impulse spending
• Crave actionable, non-cringey friendship advice
• Appreciate a frank, funny, heartfelt take on money & modern life

Transcript

[Jen]

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[Experian Narrator]

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[Jen]

Experian the Cost of Isolation, Culture and the Loneliness Epidemic.

[Experian Narrator]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save.

[Jill]

Money, embrace simplicity, and live a richer life.

[Experian Narrator]

Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

[Jen]

Hey, Frugal Friends. My name's Jen.

[Jill]

My name's Jill.

[Jen]

And social media promises connection. But more and more we are realizing that it's just making us feel lonelier.

[Jill]

And we've definitely felt this. We can scroll on our phones for sometimes hours just looking for some of the funny videos or things that make us feel like we are finding belonging or connection. But at the end of it, we put our phones down and we kind of feel devoid of that connection. It's like all of a sudden we look up and we realize, oh, they weren't real people here sitting with me.

[Jen]

Yeah, so that's what we're going to talk about in this video. Not just the importance of human connection, but how that lack of human connection is affecting us financially. And at the end, we're going to talk about what this looks like for the future and some of the things that we learned firsthand about AI when we were in New York City recently. But first, this episode is brought to you by Parasocial Relationships. The people we feel we know because we watch their social media and YouTube videos. The people we know intimate details about because they've selectively let us know those details. The people we feel entitled to because they share the highlight reel of their lives with us and they have no clue who we are. These parasocial relationships don't just superficially meet a deep need we all have, but they can be manipulated. Influencers can curate this emotional response to gain trust that they haven't earned so they can more easily sell us stuff. And that's why it is so important to have a spending plan, some kind of accountability. It is not a rule, but it is a guide. And if you don't want to pay monthly for an app or do it on paper, then we have created a budget spreadsheet that is really robust. Tabs for every 12 months for every month, all 12, an annual overview, an opportunity cost calculator, cost per wear calculator, as much as we could pack into this without overwhelming you. And we've made it mobile optimized. So if you are looking for a budget spreadsheet solution, it may be for you, it may not. But you can check it out@frugalfriends podcast.com budget and if you're over on YouTube, check the description for a link for 30% off.

[Jill]

So the question is how significant of a problem is this should be, should we be worried? How, how lonely are we all feeling?

[Jen]

It's called a loneliness epidem, a friendship recession. And these are really great buzzwords for the media. But how, how much of this is reality?

[Jill]

So according to Oxford academic TikToks hashtag lonely has amassed 13.7 billion views. So it is resonating.

[Jen]

And some of these are positive, some of them are negative, most of them are are negative. According to the same study on Oxford Academic, loneliness has severe health consequences. So we already know that being in an algorithm, whether on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, whatever, it can kind of put you in this echo chamber. So when you interact with content, the platform recognize that it's going to show you more of that. And so this can amplify these health consequences. So higher risks of depression, poor sleep, reduced life satisfaction. And this study, when looking at the hashtag lonely, it found, and this is a quote from the study, no videos were made by healthcare professionals or healthcare organizations offering health information or support. So it's not to say that there's no one on there trying to help or support, but we can't be sure of the credentials of the people trying to. And there are so many studies on this.

[Jill]

Yeah. One study highlights how youth who spend more than three hours a day on social media report fewer meaningful interpersonal interactions. And another study found links between heavy social media use and low self esteem, especially among adolescents. And this has led to a weird phenomenon.

[Jen]

Yeah, nobody is, I think everybody can say with confidence, what we are saying is happening. Like, nobody's going to disagree. I think what's really weird is the division now that we are seeing with the. What it's resulting in.

[Jill]

And on the one hand, we have this perspective.

[Lonely Young Adult]

I'm in my mid-20s, and I can confidently say that I have no friends. And I understand that we're in a loneliness epidemic. But when. When y' all are saying you don't have friends, it doesn't seem the same as when I'm saying I don't have friends. Because from what I'm seeing, it's. People have friends like human beings that you communicate with daily and you hang out with, and you just haven't found your good, good friend group. Like, you haven't found your best friends, which is fine. That's what our 20s are for. And. And some people will say that they have work friends. They don't have real friends. I don't have work friends because I work from home and everyone else doesn't live in California. And I don't have anybody. Like, I genuinely. I'm confidently saying I don't have anybody. Like, I don't have anybody that I could send a meme to. I don't have anybody that I could go to lunch with. I haven't been out to lunch with someone that's not like my mom in over a year. It feels like. And it's just, what am I supposed to do? Everybody just says, oh, making friends as an adult is hard.

[Sponsor Voice]

Ha, ha.

[Lonely Young Adult]

And then they move on. And it's like, okay, I understand that we've acknowledged that making friends as an adult is. Where do I go from here? Like, okay, what is the next step? And I know that I have to put myself out there, and I do. And I don't drink, so I go to. I find, like, all these youth events in. In my city, and I go to, I don't know, like, trivia nights, and I go to bingo, and I go to anything where it's like, it's an opportunity for me to meet people and talk to people. And it seems like everybody already has their own friends or even, if you, like, exchange Instagrams, are not interested in pursuing anything further. Which I understand, because I also like being in my room and being on TikTok. And I understand that's probably what we're all doing. But at some point, like, we have to do something. Like, we have to move forward, and I don't know how to do that. And I feel really alone.

[Jen]

So we've got that it's so heartbreaking.

[Jill]

Like, watching this video is just, like, so heartbreaking. And you know that a lot of people are feeling this, like, can watch this. And it's not just sad because she is expressing just vulnerable emotion. But you know what that feeling is like, too. And it's.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Jill]

And it's kind of like, this is a heavy episode.

[Jen]

It's not for not doing anything right. Like, people are just like, put yourself out there more. And, like, people are putting themselves out there.

[Jill]

She's doing a lot to try and find this community.

[Jen]

So we've got, like, this perspective on one hand, and then we've got this perspective on another.

[Jill]

There are people that can spend an entire day alone in the room with just their phone. It's me. I'm those people.

[Friend Making New Connections]

I've never really understood people that don't like being alone.

[Jill]

Because I'm currently in the home goods.

[Jen]

Parking lot eating a breakfast sandwich.

[Jill]

I can take as long as I.

[Friend Making New Connections]

Want in there, and then I'm gonna go to TJ Maxx, and if I.

[Jen]

Feel like it, I might stop into Marshalls. And I don't have any stress about.

[Friend Making New Connections]

Oh, do we need to go get lunch?

[Bill of the Week Caller / Guest]

Or, oh, do I.

[Friend Making New Connections]

We have to go do this. It's a perfect day.

[Jen]

Another day. But doing everything by myself because I'm single and I have no friends. At least. At least I don't have fake people in my life, and I'm not getting cheated on. So we're winning. So we have this, like, glorification of being alone. And then you've got a lot of content in the middle. Right. Of people who feel lonely and are trying to, like, be okay with themselves so that they don't attract toxic people or toxic relationships. And so there's, like, a lot of navigation of that. And then you've got the content that's like, I'm alone, and I love it, and you should love it too. And here's how to love being alone.

[Jill]

Mm.

[Jen]

And, like, it's so hard to find the radical middle one.

[Jill]

Yeah. I mean, I. I do. I can resonate with enjoying those days by myself, but a lot of that comes from this place of. Because I'm also surrounded by people a lot. And I think that's the challenge here. And what. What we want to encourage people towards is holding the tension between being confident in who you are and being able to spend. Spend time by yourself and doing things that make you happy while not alienating yourself either. And so that's that radical middle that we're talking about.

[Jen]

And I think so. The, the dangerous place we get is when we use social media not just as a replacement for face to face interaction, but really like one on one communication in general. Because it is, it's easier to scroll than to text a friend. Like, our anxiety about relationships is at an all time high because we don't want to be annoying or we don't want to like get rejected if we're trying to like hang out with someone. And like, I know these feelings. Like, I am constantly actively trying to form relationships and also being anxious about like, does this person want to form a relationship with me? Like, am I weird? Like, am I cool? Like, I don't know. So it is such a weird place to be. And so how does it affect our finances?

[Jill]

That's what we're doing.

[Jen]

I know. Because we can go into just like over analyzing this. But we're a personal finance podcast.

[Jill]

Yeah, we, we do need to understand how it impacts our money. So we are saying that relationships are a basic need. And the most successful businesses are not selling us things, they are selling us needs. And the more deficient we are in these needs, the more vulnerable or we are. And easier it is for them to sell to us when they're able to connect those things to some of these basic needs. That it's just about buying this product. It's about you finding belonging.

[Jen]

Yeah. So we talk in our book Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke. We talk about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and we'll show it on the screen. But it is a triangle that at the bottom has your basic needs. And it is the food, the water, the shelter, the safety, all of that. And then right above that, you have our more internal needs. And at the, the first thing that we need as humans outside of our basic needs is relationships. And so that is why we feel so strongly. I think even our, our basic needs don't even have to be fully met for us to want relationships. Which is why safety and relationships can, can get so convoluted and we can often put ourselves in unsafe places because of our desire for relationships. And so this is basically why we become so, so susceptible to influence on social media. When we replace human interaction and relationships with these parasocial relationships online, it, it does something to our brain. And so we're going to talk about, we're going to go through a couple of the psychological things it does to our brain to kind of break down what's going on and why. Like if you can't figure out why you're overspending on social media that this could potentially help like break that down.

[Jill]

Yeah. So it can intersect with short term thinking or, or lead to more short term thinking. There's this study that was done in 2025 that shows a positive correlation between social media induced isolation and anxiety among students. So anxiety is uncomfortable. Most of us do experience it of course, to varying degrees and it can inhibit us to varying levels. So oftentimes we'll search for different coping mechanisms in order to reduce some of that anxiety, even if it's not going to be the best long term solution. Like for instance, after having a stressful day, you may choose to order $40 worth of takeout instead of cooking what you already have at home. And so that purchase can reduce some of that anxiety. It kind of allows us that quick short term win, but it's going to prolong some of the anxiety and certainly some of our financial goals because now we've just not eaten the food that we have at home. Maybe we feel like we've wasted that $40. And so this is kind of what comes after being isolated is this type of short term thinking that can happen in these financial decisions.

[Jen]

Yeah. And more and more of what we see on social media is designed to produce anxiety, emotions bar none, get us to watch and comment more. So creators are, and especially brands are looking to elicit emotion and the easiest emotions to elicit are anger and fear. And so if it's not anger, it's fear. And I think that's where a lot of the anxiety comes, is that we're consuming this rage bait content, this fear inducing content and that exacerbates our anxiety. And that's when our decision making skills plummet, when we are using the anxious, short term thinking part of our brain over the rational decision, like long term decision making part. So adding to that impaired cognitive resources. So a 2025 study found that cognitive decline and sleep disturbances are linked with social isolation in older adults. So the more we are on social media or even though, even if it's not social media induced, just the more that we isolate ourselves from real relationships, the more we experience cognitive decline and sleep disturbances. So and this can also play into anxiety. So maybe you are experiencing like overwhelm from like your messy home. So instead of starting small and researching, cleaning or making a doable schedule, then you're on social media and you see some influencers poorly disclosed ad for a vacuum cleaner and you click buy now because you're overwhelmed, you know, by the mess and you're not like Thinking clearly, that's that cognitive like decline. It doesn't, it's not even like long term. I wouldn't say that it's long term, but just like short term cognitive decline. And we personally, we call this procrastispending. When you have a problem and instead of doing something to actually solve the problem, you spend money on something that could solve the problem and the problem does not get solved. And so this is because of impaired cognitive resources. But we all have an experience where we have procrastispent. So another example is like at the store, instead of evaluating whether you actually need more clothes, if you are insecure about somebody who's insecure about their appearance, being isolated in maybe like Fit Talk or the wellness like you know, play algorithm on social media and feeling like really insecure, maybe with a habit of buying clothes instead of, you know, stepping back and thinking like, what are my friends saying? Who do my friends say who I am? Who do other people say who I am? I only listen to like my intrusive negative thoughts and then buy more clothes to solve the problem of my insecurity. So that's a, that's another because familiarity feels less mentally taxing when we have that mental like cognitive decline. But then it, then it perpetuates. Overspending on autopilot.

[Experian Narrator]

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[Jill]

In between.

[Experian Narrator]

The detours where each adventure pulls you toward the next. And wrong turns turn out right. So why would you ever take a tour when you you could take a detour? Toyota trucks.

[Jill]

A few years back, I woke up to Eric telling me that I was grinding my teeth in my sleep. Wasn't surprised. I was super stressed during that season. But I was bummed to learn that the remedy, AKA getting a night guard, would be super expensive and somewhat time intensive.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Jill]

I got my impression kit delivered to my door, followed the super simple instructions to create my impressions, shipped it back in the pre labeled package, and about two weeks later had my custom fitting night guards in my mouth. Sleeping like a champagne with Remy.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Jill]

And the third way that this can impact us is parasocial relationships. Not that this is entirely bad.

[Jen]

However, what this episode is brought to you by your parasocial relationship with us.

[Jill]

Yes, we are the frugal friends, and you are also our friends. But parasocial bonds can feel like real friendship where people can kind of treat product endorsements from influencers like advice from a trusted friend. And that trust can lower skepticism. It can make us buy more things. And I think it is good to kind of know some of these voices. Like, we do hope that we are able to build trust with people and we are only going to be putting brands in front of you. All that we truly do recommend. But the thing is, is that there's not total reciprocity here. Like, you all know more about us than we know about you. And same with the parasocial relationships that Jen and I have. Like, there are people that I follow on Instagram that I feel very connected with, that feel like this is my sense of humor right now because I'm watching them in the comfort of my home and I'm seeing them in their home, and it all feels so comfy, cozy. But it then can lead me or you to potentially buying a $50 h hoodie from that person just because they said to. And I'm like, yeah, I'm friends with you.

[Jen]

Yeah, that's conservative. There I was watching this, this brand called park, which is this girl's last name, who has no business being in fashion. And she was selling hoodies for, like, not even hoodies, these sweaters that had weird necklines. It wasn't turtleneck, but it also wasn't crewneck. It looked like stretched out crewneck. And they were like 150 bucks. Yeah. And. And they were selling out. Yeah, like, that is what I mean. And that was more like a viral, like, fashion trend. But this girl is a influencer. And so this is what. And we make like our. Our budget spreadsheet and our annual finance planner and our meal planner. Like, we make those because we think they're valuable tools, but we don't want you to buy them, like, just to support us. We want you to buy them only if you think that they would be.

[Jill]

A true resource to you for you.

[Jen]

Right. So like we're totally fine with you not buying them if you don't need them.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Jill]

But the more that we isolate ourselves, the more that we're only in our phones, the more that we're just relying on people that we don't actually know. They certainly don't know us, but we feel more and more familiar with them and so more and more likely to give them our money, which is another way that just impacts our wallets in.

[Jen]

Non beneficial ways and it is not going to get better. So we have focused on social media for the majority of this episode because it is our biggest, I think, issue right now in the friendship recession isolation epidemic. But like anything, it will progress into the new next technology. And right now that's AI. So we were just in New York last week at a conference with the CEO of Microsoft, AI and he said in 12 to 18 months that AI will essentially be a personality that you could have a relationship with who will have its own quirks, its own style. And this isolation trend is about to get a thousand times worse.

[Jill]

Yeah, this CEO of Microsoft. Here's some direct quotes from this conference that we were just at. They said, we're really trying to land this idea that everybody is going to have their own personalized AI companion. It will over time have its own name, its own style, it will adapt to you. It may also have its own visual appearance and expressions. They were specifically talking about how AI is not a tool because tools you just utilize for your own end. Like, right. A hammer is, is something that you utilize to hammer in a nail. They were describing AI as being more of a relationship, some a companion, something that is evolving a little bit more. And they, they, they were talking about this like, this is a really great thing. It's going to be a really helpful resource for us and especially for those of us who feel lonely and isolated that people are going to have real friends that get to know you over time, that learn from you, that are in your corner as a support.

[Jen]

That is a, that's another direct quote. Another one is, he said, we are personality engineers, engineering tokens that create, create feelings that create lasting, meaningful relationships. And so we don't say this to like, it sounds like a, like an apocalyptic movie. Right? Like that's not why we're saying this. We appreciate AI, we appreciate what it's doing for small business owners like us. But we have seen this time and time again. We are no longer ignorant to it. Facebook started free, everybody came on Instagram free. To get everyone there. TikTok free, everyone gets there. Why? Why is it free? Why is this thing free?

[Jill]

Not just because they love us, right?

[Jen]

No, to get as many people on the platform so that it can become a marketing platform. LLMs, language learning models are free. Why are they free? And why are all of the top tech companies in the S&P 500 like banking on AI? Because eventually it will become a platform to advertise to you and even more so and dangerously so if it becomes a trusted companion that it becomes hard to separate separate marketing from friend. That is extremely dangerous and, and will exacerbate this problem of like isolation culture marketing. Like the more we can be drawn out and, and separated honestly. And this is what I think just in general, we are more powerful together in general. And everybody in powers goal is to separate us, to make us become less powerful. And in marketing that means we are easier to sell to. And so that's what's happening.

[Jill]

And I don't think that we need to be fearful of this. I think all of it is awareness that we can know what's going on and not necessarily just get swept up in the current that's going to take our money. I mean, just like we've seen with social media, eventually the information that your AI friend is serving you will be paid for. It'll be paid for somehow. And the more that we rely on AI, the more that we're going to struggle to find the line between reality and marketing. And it will become less and less expensive for companies to be able to sell to us. Because where there is trust, there is increased spending. And so if we have these AI companions that are reducing our feelings of loneliness that we feel like are our support who truly understand us, how easy is it going to be for that AI companion to sell to us? How much harder is it going to be for us to tease apart what do I actually want versus what's being sold to me? And so I think the answer, like there is an answer here and it's not necessarily to get rid of all of this. I think that there's a reality to we've got to live in the world in which we're living, but with eyes wide open and an awareness of how is this to impact me and what are the protections and the boundaries that I'm going to be putting up. And we think that's relationships with real true people in the fricking flesh. So you're not watching me. I'm Slapping Jen. And I'm sure you can hear it.

[Jen]

It'S in a loving way. So yeah, now that we've doomed and.

[Jill]

Gloomed you, hopefully not just friends, we do need them.

[Jen]

Let's bring it back around. And again, we are not anti social media, we're not anti AI I honestly think AI as a personal shopping companion would be a really compelling product. It's just we need to be able to draw a line between the marketing and the relationships. And I think this is again, by creating relationships outside of marketing. And what so, so what is the direct correlation? Right? When we are in relationship with people, we are not consuming as much marketing because like Jill's face isn't like serving me an ad every 30 seconds. Right? So not only does it limit our exposure to advertising, but we can get real life perspective on how other people see us. I if I'm insecure about myself and I want to buy stuff to solve the problem, yet I am surrounded by people telling me like, you think you look this way and you don't. I can't hear that just once and believe it. I need to hear it again and again and again. I'm like, sure, yes, we risk finding toxic relationships that do the opposite. But I think that's where practice comes in and people are doing it. There are ways to find friends, but it does take work.

[Friend Making New Connections]

Okay, so you know how I said.

[Jen]

That I need to make new friends.

[Friend Making New Connections]

In New York because they don't have.

[Jen]

A lot of them here?

[Friend Making New Connections]

I am currently on my way to, to a meetup to make some new friends. We're gonna go get tea, just me and a few girls in the East Village. It was organized through a Facebook group that we're all in. And then some girl who worked at a tea shop, like, put together a group chat saying like, she wanted to put together more frequent meetups at tea shops instead of having to drink alcohol, which I co sign on. So that's what we're gonna do. I yesterday was just like, hey, does anyone want to meet up tomorrow, today, Saturday and see if anyone wanted to meet up? I was like, I just moved here. I don't know, A lot of people would love to make new girlfriends. So there are gonna be a few girls that are showing up also. So we'll see. And I'm very excited.

[Sponsor Voice]

Hello.

[Jen]

That's closed by here because I'm sure they would just let us sit.

[Friend Making New Connections]

So I just got back and it was a success. There were like eight of us girls and it was a good, like age group. Like it Was the youngest was I think 23, 24, and the oldest was like 32. A lot of us had so much to talk about and like everyone was so sweet and friendly. So I'm very happy that it was a success. We ended up hanging out at the tea shop for quite a bit and then we went over to Washington Square park because Van Leeuwen was giving away free pints. So I got myself a pint of carrot cake flavored ice cream. And I'm excited to try this, but I just feel so energized and I'm so happy that I took the initiative and asked if anybody wanted to go hang out today. So if this is your sign to just like take the initiative and make friends that way, like, please do, by all means.

[Jill]

You can hear it in her voice going from about to go hang out there. She's, I love the progression. She is walking. So you hear she's a little bit out of breath, but you can feel, hear some of the anxious, jittery excitement. And then afterwards, almost that exhale of how great was that? And here's what we did. And this was so lovely. And you just, you hear what it did for her on such a deep level.

[Jen]

Yeah. And this is not just reserved for people in their 20s.

[Midlife Friend]

If you're seeing this video, I want you to take this as a sign to go out and make new friends in midlife. Here's a story. A couple weeks ago, I went to support a friend of mine who, who was doing a get together at a basketball game for some of her clients. I wind up sitting next to this woman who I've never met before. And we start talking and there was an immediate energy shift. I felt it, it was palpable. It's like, boom. This has happened to me a bunch in my life. And every single time I have turned to that woman, typically it's me who turns to them and says, hey, I feel like there's a connection here. I think we're supposed to be friends. And for one of the first times in my life, life, she did it for me. She was like, I feel like you and I are supposed to be friends. I was like, girl, me too. So we made a date for two weeks later to meet and have coffee. Our first friendship date. It was fantastic. We sat for three hours and talked about all kinds of things. Relationships, work, goals, etc, like, boom, we were off to the races. We went deep fast. And here's the other thing. I'm 53 and she's 37. Age has nothing to do with connection. It has nothing to do with who you're going to vibe with, who you're going to feel something for in relationships, romantic or otherwise. If one of us hadn't been brave enough to put ourselves out there and say, hey, I think we're supposed to be friends, I feel a connection here. This incredible coffee date I just had would never have happened. So take this as a sign. Put yourself out there, introduce yourself to people. If you feel a connection with someone, invite them to a coffee. Because who knows, maybe you just meet your new best friend.

[Jill]

There is a reality to being a little uncomfortable. Yeah, you've got to be willing to be a little awkward, to take the risk, to be the one initiating, to.

[Jen]

Take the action, to get rejected. Yeah, there are like, I have a friend who I love to death, but nine times out of 10, she like, ghosts me. She's just very flaky. And so I don't reach out to her a ton. You know, I do because reach out to her occasionally because I love her. But then I have friends that I have and she has been one of my best friends since college and so. But now I'm in a place that I need, like, different, more reliable friends and like putting myself out there and trying to make new friends and have one. She, she has a ton of friends. So, like, I can't always, like, hang out with her because she has so many. So I have to have, like, more. Right. You know, it's just this, it's just this balance. It's, it's. No one person is going to like, be your best friend and meet all your needs, but you also have to be the one to like, put yourself out there and like, meet people's needs and stuff.

[Jill]

So.

[Jen]

And it's. So it's going to be different for everyone.

[Jill]

That is the thing that I would say to the girl in the previous video that we saw earlier in the episode of, you know, I'm doing all these things, but what's happening? And I don't know all the ins and outs of her situation, but it's, it's kind of a twofold situation where, yes, you're going to some of these events, activities, meetup groups where you are likely to meet other people who are similar to you. But it's also taking the next step of finding a way to get their number if they're. Or their Instagram handle if that feels like a little bit less scary and making the plans, Nah, girl, get their number, get them to hang out and do the coffee date the Tea date, the, you know, of a free concert that's happening. Whatever it is, you kind of have to take that next step of initiation. It's sometimes not just about showing up, it's about following through.

[Jen]

I'm gonna say get the number because if you get the social media handle, you can create a false parasocial relationship with that person before you truly get to know them. And you can get distracted by other people on social media trying to get to your DMs. I've done that before. Take the phone number. Be awkward. Just be that we're all trying to be cool, right? So that we're likable. Stop trying to be cool. Nobody wants to be cool anymore. We just want to be friends.

[Jill]

Do you know what's also a little awkward and slightly cringe? But we take the risk every single.

[Jen]

Week because we're done trying to be cool. And this is just our authentic selves.

[Jill]

The bill of the week.

[Experian Narrator]

That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage, maybe.

[Jill]

Your car died and you're happy to.

[Experian Narrator]

Not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills. Buffalo Bills.

[Sponsor Voice]

Bill Clinton.

[Experian Narrator]

This is the Bill of the week.

[Bill of the Week Caller / Guest]

Hi, Jen and Jill. My name is Hannah and I'm just calling in a bill of the week for daycare expenses. So we live in Colorado and in Colorado there's a universal preschool program that is for your child the year before they enter kindergarten. You can get some free hours. And so I applied for this for my son who is 5 years old. He'll be going to kindergarten next year. And I received free daycare for his half day status during the week. But I recently started a new job and we needed to have full time five day week daycare. And we were not looking forward to the billing is actually pretty affordable. This daycare probably about. With the hours that we were getting, probably about 175 a week that we would be paying for his expenses is what we were predicting. So still expensive, but less than a lot of places. So anyway, I was looking at the bills that I was getting for the daycare and they were only like $77 a week. And so I reached out to the director and she said, no, that's correct. You qualified for enough hours that it covers the rest of your tuition expenses. And yeah, you only have to pay $77 a week for daycare. So we were thrilled and just wanted to share this really cool thing that happened to us and just love the show and love you guys and I've learned so much from the podcast. So thanks again for all you do.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yes.

[Jen]

Oh my gosh. $77 a week for daycare.

[Sponsor Voice]

What?

[Jill]

Yeah. Even I know that's a deal.

[Lonely Young Adult]

So good.

[Jill]

I mean this is just a cool thing that you're sharing and we're celebrating with you, Hannah. And if anybody else has this type of situation happening in your state, I mean, be sure to apply.

[Jen]

Always apply for anything free or reduced.

[Jill]

Always apply.

[Jen]

They can tell you no, they can. I put Kai in golf for like a little golf, little baby babies playing golf and it was 80 bucks and I was like, I'll apply for a discount. And I was like, hey, this is our situation. And they're like, yeah, you can pay 60 bucks instead.

[Jill]

Love it. Yeah, love it.

[Jen]

No proof of income. Nothing.

[Jill]

Wow. Okay.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Jill]

Well if you all are listening, have a bill that you want to share. If it's about a reduced bill, a bill you love to pay, you are bill and you love that googlefriendspodcast.com bill. Leave it for us.

[Jen]

Introducing your new Dell PC. Powered by the Intel Core Ultra processor, it helps you handle a lot even when your holiday to do list gets to be a lot because it's built with all day battery plus powerful AI features that help you do it all with ease. From editing images to drafting emails to.

[Sponsor Voice]

Summarizing large documents to multitasking.

[Jill]

So you can organize your holiday shopping and make custom holiday decor and search for great holiday deals and respond to holiday requests and customer questions and customers requesting customers custom things and plan the perfect holiday dinner for vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians and Uncle Mike's carnivore diet.

[Jen]

Luckily you can get a PC that helps you do it all faster so you can get it all done.

[Jill]

That's the power of Dell PC with Intel inside backed by Dell's price match guarantee. Get yours [e-mail] deals, terms and conditions apply. See Dell.com for details. We love to talk about making a plan for our money with budgets and setting savings goals. Well, having life insurance is part of that that plan too. I actually got my term policy a few years ago after realizing how much my household depends on my income. It's one of those things you hope you never need, but you feel so much peace knowing it's there and getting.

[Sponsor Voice]

Coverage doesn't have to be a huge project. Fabric by Gerber Life is term life insurance you can get done today. Made for busy parents like you all online on your schedule right from your couch you could be covered in under 10 minutes with no health exam required. It's seriously that simple.

[Jill]

And if you've got kids or anyone counting on you, now's the time to lock in low rates while you're young and healthy. Fabric's policies are flexible and affordable, like a million dollars in coverage for less than a dollar a day. Plus, they've partnered with Gerber Life, trusted by families for over 50 years.

[Sponsor Voice]

So join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. Apply in just [e-mail] frugal that's meatfabric.com frugal M E-E-T fabric.com frugal policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions.

[Jill]

And now it's time for.

[Jen]

Okay, how are you connecting with people offline or like, maybe like making new relationships offline?

[Jill]

For me, it's definitely trying new things.

[Jen]

So.

[Jill]

I, you know, I also go to trivia and book club and at our office, if there's opportunities for, they call them like lunch and learns just kind of generally looking for opportunities to meet other people. Even at our new apartment complex, there are events that happen. And so trying to get to as many of those. But I also want to say here, I'm taking this question as an inroad. There was a point, this was maybe about five years ago, I wasn't thrilled with where my friendships were, like, how they felt. Even the relationships that I did have, it kind of felt like things are kind of lagging behind. They didn't feel as easy as they did in college. And I, I had said to Eric, even, like, I want, I think I just want to be a better friend. Like, it's not as if I have zero friends, but my relationships don't feel as connected as they used to. And so just starting to put action for myself towards being a better friend to the people that I did already have around me. It could have been longer than five years ago, honestly. But, but something like that. This was years ago and I do feel like I have been able to, like, reap those rewards. Not that all of this is necessarily replicable, but I think it does relate to what we're talking about here because I think sometimes we look at this feeling of loneliness and just think, well, other people just have it easier. Or it's, it's me. This is just the reality. When really there is a cultivation that needs to happen with relationships. And relationships aren't just, they're not Stagnant or they're not.

[Jen]

They.

[Jill]

They don't. They don't just stay the same way. Like, relationships can end, relationships can start, relationships can grow, they can fade like this. They are a living organ, 100% to be fed. And so for me, it was little things, but it certainly was in this initiation. So remembering to text people, and sometimes that's an actual reminder in your phone. I think other people are. They're just so good at it. No, it's like I have a friend who's like, how did you remember that this is the anniversary of? It's like, because it's in my calendar. Because I just put it in my calendar and I look at my calendar and I will text you on that day just to be like thinking of you. I know this happened. I know it's the anniversary of such and such. I know that today's your birthday. Happy birthday. Like, whatever it is. That's such a minor thing, but it's something I've done. And then they text back and then it's, we haven't caught up. Let's go. Like that. It cycles. And if we feed it, it'll keep growing.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Jill]

So do the small thing. Even if you just take that little thing of just. I know you. You tested out texting a gift to somebody. Sorry if I'm. I'm taking what you were about to be saying.

[Jen]

I know I wasn't going to.

[Jill]

Running through your friend groups and just connecting. Whether it's a text message. I also love to have zoom hangs with people. So even if I'm. If we can't get together, hey, can we schedule a zoom call? I know that feels very Covid days, but having an hour long zoom call with a can really connect us in some great ways that hopefully then feed into getting together in person, certainly. But figure out what the small thing is for you do the initiation of it and watch that thing grow.

[Jen]

Yes. I texted GIFs, GIFs or memes to my friends and you can schedule on an iPhone a text text up to two weeks in advance. So if, if I was like, I think this friend is like out of town or I don't want to text like 20 people at the same time. Right.

[Jill]

So that's gonna be too much to keep up with on the back end.

[Jen]

So I'm like scheduling these texts to go out at like 7 or 8pm Like 1 a day for the next two weeks. Like just because I'm thinking about it and I don't want to forget it. And so then every day like, somebody is texting me back, right? And so. And we're, like, catching up, so. And I think the remembering small things is so valid. I had the 10th anniversary of my bachelorette party a few weeks ago, and I texted everyone a picture of themselves at the bachelorette party.

[Jill]

Nice.

[Jen]

And I was like, can you believe.

[Jill]

This is 10 years ago?

[Jen]

And, yeah, just like, small, small things. If you are going through your phone, like, and you see a picture of you and your friend that's like, texting it to them and be like, miss you. You are the best.

[Jill]

And then being a person to plan the in person stuff that, hey, this is going on. You want to join me? And that takes effort. But we're. We're gonna find ourselves lonely if we don't put in the effort.

[Jen]

Effort. Yeah. So the way I am connecting with people is a little different. Since we have two kids. It's hard to, like, go out to, like, the things that you do. But we have found that wherever we're going to church is really where we try to invest in relationships. And so that makes finding a church very difficult because it has to be the right. It has to meet the vibe. Check honestly. And we looked, and I'm lucky that Travis feels like the same way about relationships that I do. He's even more. He's an even better friend than I am. Like, I take inspiration from him, and it's how we met. Honestly, I was inspired by Travis. This was still early in our marriage. Like, how good of a friend he is to people and how inviting he is to new people. And so when I saw Eric post that thing on Facebook, I was like, I want to be more like Travis. And so, you know, inviting you guys in. But we found a church last year that finally, after trying so many, felt like the right fit for us. That valued community over, like, everything and different places of, like, religious worship value, different things, even in the same denomination. And so, like, we. We just worked for several years, honestly, to find the place that fit. And now those are some of, like, my new closest friends. They are the right fit in this season. And there's always, like, you know, so much care for our kids too. Like, they're very mindful of having childcare for events or, like, all the parents. Now we have friends with teenage kids, and they can watch, you know, some of our kids so the other parents can, like, get together. So it's been so worth the trouble that it was of finding this place. But that is really, I would say the text messages don't feel like Offline. To me, those I will say are still. I would still consider them offline but like truly offline is definitely bad.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Oh yeah.

[Sponsor Voice]

Cool.

[Jill]

Well, thank you all so much for being here. Thanks for listening, for watching and for reading our book. Buy what yout Love without going broke and leaving a review like this one for Megan. Five stars. The authors, Jen and Jill have taken the meat and potatoes from their years of podcasting and put it into the perfect mix of anecdotes, tips and thought provoking questions. Actionable steps. As a fan of the podcast for years, I was pleased to see the nods to the fans. I've always said these two are the friends we all need. Reaffirming that little voice you hear when you are spending money. Does this fit with my values and goals? The book helps to shift you into a values based mindset. Forever a fan of the frugal friends for the tools and motivation I needed to pay off my own debt and excited for more people to take charge of their spending in this way.

[Jen]

Yes, Megan. Thank you Megan. And we're so happy to be your friends. I think it's super valuable to have some parasocial relationships. They can be an escape as long as they don't become a substitute and I think it's very cool. Like all of our parasocial friends are truly like they pass the vibe.

[Jill]

Oh I love them. They're making me laugh on the daily.

[Jen]

Yes. And that's where we get a lot.

[Jill]

Of our tips from. Like we do need this version. So yeah, if you're enjoying this version, please do subscribe. Like leave a rating and review. Listen to our book, read our book, leave a review. Just all of the free things that you can do to support us. We would be so thoroughed and if you want another one to queue up after this, TikTok is ruining hobbies. That's a hot take.

[Jen]

Yeah, that's a recent episode that has been going off. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianna.

[Jill]

Another tip for people could have been just start businesses with people and then force them to be your friends contractually.

[Jen]

Honestly, it is very good to be in business with your very good friends. It is fantastic to have a work friend that is legally bound to stay with you. They can't just up and quit whenever they want, you know. So it's very fun. And in all seriousness, such you are such a good friend. Oh Jen and I, I will say this. Oh no, I just expect to like.

[Jill]

Like you're gonna make me cry.

[Jen]

Last year when I had the seizure and Travis, like, immediately called you so I didn't have to be alone and you were like, there.

[Sponsor Voice]

Oh.

[Jen]

So meaningful.

[Jill]

I love you, Jen.

[Jen]

I love you, too.

[Jill]

You're a great friend to me too. It's like so beautiful to have friendship and business partner. Like people are. Like, how long have you been doing this? I would not be doing it if I just wasn't having a blast. But also feel so safe and seen. Like you are one of my closest friends.

[Jen]

Same.

[Jill]

And I love you. And of course I'm going to be.

[Sponsor Voice]

Your ride or die.

[Jill]

Of course I'm going to show up at the hospital forever until your mom does. Well, good thing I'm not recording anymore because those are tears.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Jill]

Oh.

[Bill of the Week Caller / Guest]

Okay.

[Jen]

Time for lunch.

[Experian Narrator]

Look, it's okay to make some financial mistakes. We've all missed payments, signed up for cars we didn't need, or ignored our credit scores. You're not alone. That's why you need experience. Your big financial friend. The Experian app helps you check your FICO score, find ways to save, and get matched with credit card offers that fit your needs. Some cards are labeled no Ding Decline, which means if you're not approved, they won't hurt your credit scores. So, yeah, it's okay if you haven't been the best with your finances. That's why you've got Experian on your side. Download the app for free today. Day Applying for no Ding Decline cards won't hurt your credit scores if you aren't initially approved. Initial approval will result in a hard inquiry, which may impact your credit scores.

[Bill of the Week Caller / Guest]

Experian.