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- [00:00]
Jen
Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report Amazon Pharmacy Presents.
- [00:31]
Jill
Painful Thoughts the guy in front of.
- [00:35]
Jen
Me in the pharmacy line is halfway through an incredibly detailed 17 minute story about his gout.
- [00:44]
Jill
A story likely more painful than the gout itself.
- [00:48]
Jen
Next time, save yourself the pain and let Amazon Pharmacy deliver your meds right to your door. Amazon Pharmacy Healthcare just got less painful. Hi friend, it's your inner child calling and they want churros. A new toy and a new adventure. Or maybe five with the bestest besties on earth. Find your moment at Walt Disney World Resort Where'd you get those shoes? Easy. They're from dsw. Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the styles that show off the many sides of you, from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or dsw.com Episode 478 is episode 297. Tips for Living on an Extremely Tight Budget welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace.
- [02:16]
Jill
Simplicity, and live a richer life. Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill Foreign.
- [02:27]
Jen
Welcome to Frugal Friends Podcast. My name is Jen. My name is Jill and today we are revisiting one of our most popular episodes from two years ago that is still extremely relevant and that's living on a extreme tight budget. And we're talking extreme low income. Not extreme low income, but extreme tight budget. As in there is not an option. It's not like a voluntarily extremely tight income tight budget.
- [03:03]
Jill
Well, or maybe it is. I think sometimes we can find ourselves in seasons where we've chosen to live on a little less and we want some more tips for that. And then there are times where our circumstances have decided for us that this is the amount of money that you're earning month over month. And I think we had made these caveats in the initial episode when we launched it for the first time. But I do want to say again here that I think a lot of people or a good handful will come to Frugal Friends podcast. Assuming that this is all we talk about, that we talk about how to just get as much as possible for as little as possible, that we're going to talk coupons, deprive yourself. Yeah.
- [03:52]
Jen
How to be okay with depriving yourself.
- [03:54]
Jill
How to say no more often, how to white knuckle this thing. And that is not us. So we are going to need to make that statement very clear at the start of this because we might be finding some new listeners with this episode that we are reclaiming the word frugality. We are redefining it as being good stewards of of all of our resources. So this includes our physical resource, our emotional, relational, mental resource, our financial resources, our physical spaces, our natural resources that all of these things come together and formulate how we engage with the world around us, how we view ourselves and our circumstances and then the actions that we take as a result of that. And so our perspective in this is that it's not not bad to spend, it is not bad to splurge, it is not bad to impulse spend. There are people who are frugal who make a lot of money, and there are people who are frugal who don't make a lot of money. And we can all find ourselves at this frugal table where we can live a long term lifestyle. Because there's joy to be found in intentional living and conscious consumption, not just for the sake of deprivation or race to the bott or how can we live on as little as possible or kind of stay in this place. So you will hear messages throughout this episode too, of encouragement and ideas, hopefully filled and sprinkled with gentleness and kindness. That there is also permission for ourselves to identify ways to earn more. That yes, we may find ourselves in this place, and we may choose this place at various points in life, but we also don't need to stay stuck there in whatever is within our control. We recognize there's so many external factors at play here and sometimes this is not our choice and it feels very suffocating. And we absolutely see you in those places too. But we are also always going to look at all the parts of financial management which include earning, spending and saving, investing. And so when our earnings is not enough, we do want to help you there. We want to have some good tips and tangible takeaways. But we also want to say that hopefully this isn't the goal of Frugality to stay in a place where what we bring home is not enough to sustain us. We don't want that for anybody in the long term. And so we also hope that our content helps people to identify who ways to be able to be creative with your skill set and earning so that you can feel more comfortable and stable as well. But first, this episode is brought to you by Getting the most. Like a good two for one deal. Jumping in the deep end of the pool head first, or scraping up those last bits of cookie dough from the bowl, probably with your hand. We love enjoying things to their fullest extent. Like the book we just wrote. You can get the most. You can be getting the most out here. Helpful tips, actionable steps, stories mixed with research, all aimed at helping you get the most with your money. So if this sounds like something you really want in 2025, this book is now available wherever you buy books. It's called Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke. Order it from your local bookshop, Barnes & Noble, bookshop.org, buy what yout Love Without Going Broke. Get the most.
- [07:42]
Jen
Get it. Get it. And I hope that you get something from this episode like so many others did the first time we aired it. So let's get into it.
- [07:54]
Jill
Let's do it. This next article comes from Caroline Vensel.
- [08:01]
Jen
Caroline and her family of five lived on $17,000 a year. They were a family of four at that time, but now they're a family of six and they still only live on one income. But for a very long time, Caroline was a teen mom and they lived on her husband's $17,000 a year income, which I think, Jill, that was, I mean, similar to your income at one point.
- [08:28]
Jill
Yeah, I got Eric's permission. Eric's my husband. To share. I asked him just before this episode. I'm like, hey, we're talking about living off a low income. Can I? And he's like, yeah, totally, but thanks for asking. And this is pretty recent for us too. In 2018, our take home pay was $18,000. So when I say I can commiserate with the pinch and the difficulty, like, I mean it. And thankfully we had a place to live and we had food and we were provided for and it was not easy and it required creativity and all of the things. But when we say, like, yeah, we get it, we've been there, like, we're not saying we get it. We've been there. Like, we've made 50, 60 grand a year, like $18,000 in 2018. Take home pay. So I can relate to a lot of the things that Caroline mentions in this article and I think, yeah, can also comment on some of the things that worked for us. We did not, thankfully stay in that place. So Fast forward to 2021 and we are bringing in a lot more money than that. And a lot of that took intentionality and took a lot of different efforts on our parts to not stay in that place. So that's another piece that I think we're going to talk about on this episode today of are there ways to not stay in this place? We understand some of the different dynamics that would lead us to be in a place where we are living below the poverty level. But shifting mindset, finding opportunities, honing in skillset to not continue to find ourselves in this place year after year and again, that looks different for everybody. And I'm not saying that you have to aim at being a millionaire or even making six figures, but living below the poverty line is not a place that we want to set up camp exactly.
- [10:25]
Jen
But Caroline goes into detail about the things that she and her family did while they were living on 17,000 a year to make it through those multiple years that they had to do that. So the first thing that she goes over is they had to prioritize. And so this one is really, really important. What needs to happen? Do you need a new car or is the one you have doing just fine? You just like a new car or even smaller? Do you need the full price, brand name products, or can you go for the generic or maybe even make it your. So there are a lot of things. Or even I would go a step further and be like, do you really need the products that you are buying or can you skip a week, skip a month, or do without? Get creative and skip it. Caroline says we learned pretty quickly that if we wanted to splurge, we'd need to plan ahead for it. So. But if splurging meant that our grocery budget would take a hit, we would opt for a night of frozen pizza and Netflix. So I think that's it's really important to point out that you don't have to be living on rice and beans, beans and rice, like you can have little treasures. But A, you have to plan ahead for them and budget for them, and B, they have to be proportionate to the income you have coming in. You know, a night at Carrabba's may not be in your best interest in this season of your life. And it's different for everyone. The things that people tend to get tripped up on, are different for everyone. So you just have to be aware of, okay, what are the things that I like that I'm overspending on and how can I still incorporate them into my life but do them for cheaper, less expensive? Yeah.
- [12:13]
Jill
And the next one, I think it connects with the prioritizing aspect, and that is live below your means. Okay, so I just. I need to pause here because I know that that, like, even inside me, it gives me this, like, cringe, like, defense mechanism, like, pops up of, like, what are you talking about, live below my means? If I'm making $18,000 a year, $20,000 a year, like, no, this is not possible. And so, yes, I want to acknowledge that. So depending on where you find yourself on an extremely low income, what that means for you in the area that you're living. But I still want to highlight this concept of not approaching it from what all can I buy, but where can I cut? And recognizing that sometimes. Okay, so I'll speak for myself. When in this place of being very tight financially, whether it was making 18,000 in a year or maybe 30,000 in a year, it doesn't matter. It all felt pretty tight to us. I had this idea in the back of my head, like, this is so difficult. This feels like such a pinch. Like, I deserve something here for all my hard work, for how much I've sacrificed, for how little I actually get to have in life. And that would mean that sometimes I would blow my budget on certain things. And this is. I know that a lot of financial people will talk about cutting coffee, and everyone's like, that's not going to make you rich. It's like, no, it's not. But for when we're living on extremely low incomes, that can quickly derail a budget. If we are thinking that we're just going to treat ourselves in this way or that way, or it might lead us to a mindset of making. Making payments. And so we might get a nicer car than what we can actually afford because we're just making payments. And so recognizing where our mindset is at and shifting to a mindset of how can I approach this as if I'm going to spend less than what I'm bringing in. And even if you can afford, even if you do get a little bit extra money that you weren't anticipating, instead of maybe going out for a nice dinner, that might mean, how do I put this aside for savings? Or how do I pay off a bill? Again, it's not easy. It's not a Place that we want to live for a really long time. But I think approaching it in this way and also approaching it in a way of how do I not stay here? Can help us make those sacrifices along the way if this isn't forever.
- [14:45]
Jen
And that's another thing we want to emphasize that it shouldn't. Your mindset shouldn't be, I'm going to live on a low income forever. Even if you are in a job or a position that is historically low paying, that doesn't mean that you have to be living on a low income forever. Jill is in a profession that is historically low paying.
- [15:09]
Jill
Social work. I'm just going to call it out. I'm a social worker.
- [15:12]
Jen
Yeah. And still prioritized increasing her income. And so this is a big mindset aspect to this too. You are living on a low income right now, but you are not a low income person. This is separate from you. And so this is a season that you are in in life. And I think even when you start to separate yourself from that mindset, it becomes easier to actually live below your means because you're living below your income's means, not necessarily living below your means. Like it's forever. Cause when you think it's forever and when you see no way out, that's when you start to overspend on 3, 4, 6, $8 purchases because you need something to hold you over, something to reward yourself because you see no way out of this low income trap. But when you start to separate yourself from this and start to put your attention and focus on getting out of that and just seeing this as the season that it is, you can say, okay, I can give up all this stuff for however long it takes. Cause I won't be here forever.
- [16:24]
Jill
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so we're gonna be weaving in some of these mindset shifts along with tangible tips. The next one on this list is a more tangible tip of what do we do when we are in those places of low income. And maybe it's gonna be a few years before we do even see a way out. Shop only discount. Nearly. Make this a rule across the board for yourself. Absolutely. You need clothing, you need some furnishings, you need, you name it secondhand. So Goodwill, go to Facebook marketplace. Of course, we are only talking necessities like my shoes are completely worn out. I need a new pair of shoes. Goodwill. And again, these are tips for extremely low income earners. Remember, this is, this is who we're talking to right now, that these are the spots that you need to be going to find A discount grocery store. And if you don't have one in your area, look for buy nothing groups. Look for farmers markets, look for swaps, like what do they call those where you can like work at a farm and also take home some of the produce.
- [17:37]
Jen
Like co op.
- [17:38]
Jill
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Find a co op. Find a way to cut, cut, cut your grocery bill. If you've not found. If you've not done Aldi yet. Yes. Aldi is your best friend and so are buy nothing groups. Discount grocers.
- [17:52]
Jen
Yeah.
- [17:53]
Jill
And of course scratch and dent places. So you know, this is definitely getting into some more. Like if you own your home and an appliance breaks, holy smokes. Scratch and dent. If you actually need to replace something or build up skill sets, problem solving, YouTube, DIY, fix it yourself is also your best friend. Look into fixing that thing first or figuring out how to go without. Or check your buy nothing group for the thing that you need before you jump to purchasing or replacing. I would say wash your clothes by hand before you move to how do I buy this stuff? New washing machine. When we are living bare bones, our mentality needs to be bare bones.
- [18:38]
Jen
Absolutely.
- [18:38]
Jill
At that point, with the focus on how do I not stay here.
- [18:44]
Jen
Tell them about your scratch and dent appliance.
- [18:48]
Jill
Oh, yes. So Eric and I just moved into a home. We were able to purchase a home this past year and the fridge needed replacing. And so we went to Sears Outlet has scratch indents. So let's look for one in your area if this, if you're in need of this. But there's a big old den on the front door of this fridge. And so we got like a 60 to 70% discount off of what this refrigerator would normally be. And so I just. So we bought it because there's nothing else wrong with it other than cosmetics. And I just got a magnet chalkboard for the front of it. And now it also forces me to meal plan so you don't even notice dents anymore. I put up this black magnet I meal plan. So it's like a win, win, win across the board because now I'm more planful with what we're going to eat, which also helps me to save money. And I got a really dope appliance for super inexpensive.
- [19:48]
Jen
I love that story. And I love your refrigerator. And one more thing on shopping, discount and secondhand thrift stores are not just for clothes. You can get almost anything from a thrift store and thrift stores aren't your only way to get secondhand stuff. I love shopping, ebay. We got so, so much stuff and I almost love ebay more than thrift stores because it takes a long time for me to search in a thrift store. I don't love shopping, so I don't love searching for things in thrift stores. But if there's something I know I need and then I can instantly go on ebay and search for it secondhand and it comes up and I get it. Like we did this recently. We bought a sleep sack for when Kai was an infant to help him sleep through the night and it was $40 new. It was $30 at our baby consignment shops. Found it on eBay for 20. So I love ebay for that. When you need to buy something that is hard to find at a thrift store, still look for it secondhand first. Because literally there's almost nothing that we buy firsthand now. And I want to point out, like Jill and I still do these things because these are habits we cultivated when we didn't make a lot of money. So if you adopt these habits now, later on you can pick and choose what you want to take with you and it's going to free up so much of your income later on. Trust isn't just earned, it's demanded.
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Jill
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Jill
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Jen
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- [24:26]
Jill
And connected with this again. I want to highlight that if you're living on an extremely low income, purchasing items is not something you should be doing often.
- [24:36]
Jen
Right? So true.
- [24:38]
Jill
And this this ties in with the next tip which is rethinking necessities. When you're living on a low income, you are really focused on the basics. Transportation to your job so that you can make money. Food, shelter, bills. That's it. And if that sounds tough, yeah, it is. And it is a reason and a motivator to be creative and look for ways to not stay at an extremely low income. But while you're there, you need to be rethinking necessities. So this means even down to paper towels. Do I really need to buy paper towels or can I be using rags? Can I be making use of reusable items? Do I really need to be buying detergent for a month? Caroline gives us an example. $15 for detergent for a month versus $12 to make your own for the whole year. And she has a link to how to do that, how to make your own detergent. So this is the type of mentality that we need to be taking on of how reuse, how can we diy, how can we make our own, and how can we make spending and buying things outside of transportation, food, shelter, bills, very, very minimal.
- [26:05]
Jen
Yeah. And this like, might sound like, no, I don't make a lot, but at least I make something. I'm not destitute. I need to have like some luxuries. But if your focus is on bettering your life, bettering your financial situation, which I assume it is because you're listening to this podcast, you're interested in it, you're interested in doing better, then these are things that you're only going to be doing for a little time, like a short amount of time, maybe a few years. And that seems like a long time while you're going through it. I understand two years seems like forever when you're in it, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not that long. So if you are, and it can be really ego deflating when you don't have enough money and you're living like trying to wash your clothes without a washing machine. That sounds deflating. But if you separate yourself from the situation and from what you are doing and realize you're not doing it because you have to, you're doing it because you're bettering your situation. This is what you have to do right now to do that, then it becomes mentally a little easier.
- [27:22]
Jill
Yeah. It doesn't mean that you can't have any joy or fun in the midst of this either. It's not as if, oh, I can't spend any money, so I just need to be downtrodden. There are plenty of free things that you can enjoy. And so go on walks, find beauty in your surroundings, get together with friends in a way that doesn't cause you to have to spend money. There are still things that you can do do. It just really needs to be with the mindset that this, this needs to not cost financially. It needs not cost me anything.
- [27:57]
Jen
Absolutely. And then I like that she says, hand me downs will be your way to upgrade. Yes, we do this. If I like with my office chair, I was sitting at a dining table chair and then found a chair, actually found it on the side of the road in front of my friend's house. So I knew where the chair came from and upgraded that and then upgraded to a little better chair found on Facebook Marketplace. So like, the first upgrade was free, but I did pay for the second one. So it's. Yeah, upgrades don't necessarily have to be new.
- [28:33]
Jill
Yeah, this was my lifesaver. It was amazing, Jen, like, how many really cool things Eric and I had. Even in our times of living financially below the poverty line, because we would get hand me downs, pick up things on the side of the road, find free stuff, you name it. Or fix something up that somebody didn't have any use for anymore and just had some really cool stuff. And I gotta say, I had a rule for myself. Like, we did not buy anything even if I needed new. I mean, I didn't ever really need new clothes, but, you know, I would never buy new clothes. I wasn't doing those things. But I would somehow still get new things because friends were cleaning out their closets and they always knew to, like, act if I wanted to dig through it, because I always did. So shout out to Chelsea. So much of my wardrobe was given to me from my friend Chelsea. And that was fun, too. And yeah, a great way to be able to make use of other people's things that they might be getting rid of. And Caroline talks about paying people for their old stuff. That's great if you can afford it. But if people just know that, hey, before I take something to the thrift store, maybe I'll check with so and so and see if they want it. Like, go for it. Let your friends know that, hey, let me know before you're getting rid of your clothes or your such and such. Like, I'd be interested to pick through it if that's not too ego deflating for you. That was something that was super helpful for Eric and I. Yeah.
- [30:08]
Jen
But if you are in the mindset, you're a frugal person, not a charity case, like, you can be like, hey, guys, I love the free stuff. Let me know what you're getting rid of instead of like, oh, I really need this. And so that's more deflating. But you're listening to this show. You're a frugal person. You love free stuff.
- [30:25]
Jill
So let your friends know it.
- [30:27]
Jen
Yes, live in this. Did you have anything else, Jill? Cause we have to. There's so many good things in this article, but we do have to move on to the next one.
- [30:37]
Jill
I just like the tip of just make your own everything. I think that's a really good way to shift some things. And a tangible tip when you're living on a really low income of what can I make? Can I make my own snacks? Can I make my own bread? Can I make my own laundry detergent? Do I have to have, like, soap, body wash, shampoo, bar soap, conditioner, like, or can I just have, like, one thing for all of that? So just really, really paring down on the essentials and even cutting bills. Find out where you can cut your bills and then beyond that. Okay, the things that I do need, can I make it myself? These are the places that are really gonna hone in our budgets.
- [31:21]
Jen
Yeah. And then last thing that I'm gonna say is, her very last paragraph is, accept that this is where you are. So this was the biggest factor for them. They had to stop trying to live. Well, I'll just read it. We had to stop trying to live above our means and just accept that we didn't have the money to spend like other people did. By accepting this, we were finally able to stop working against ourselves and reach our goal. And she says if you're constantly looking for the next bigger, better thing, life is going to be hard. The sooner that you accept this as your life, the better. Once you're content right where you are, you can actually start to enjoy this life that you live. So. And that doesn't mean that she stayed where she was. She makes a lot more money now. But this is where they lived for several years with children and that they were even able to buy a house on this income. So they live in a low cost of living area. But it is totally in your capabilities to live here and to progress from here.
- [32:27]
Jill
And I would encourage anyone interested in taking a deeper dive. Check out this article. She also talks about some of the things she wished she had done on a low income that were available to her, but she didn't even know about it. So if you are in this place and you're kind of like, what other options do I have? What walls can I be pushing on? She talks about different side hustles that she wished she would have gotten into, certain DIY things she wished she would have done to cut costs, particularly as a mom on a low income. So definitely check her out.
- [33:00]
Jen
Yes. So our next article is a little transition from how to live on the low income, and it's to how to pay off debt on a low income. And so that is going to look. It's going to look so different for everyone. And I'm not saying that paying off debt should be your ultimate goal if you're on a low income, but it.
- [33:25]
Jill
Is certainly not collecting debt.
- [33:27]
Jen
Absolutely doing that. But sometimes you're at a place where paying off debt isn't right. You just need to get current. Like our recent conversation with Lydia Senior. She was talking about the baby step nobody talks about is like getting current. And sometimes that takes some time. So that may be where you're at. But as you work on getting better, then maybe paying off debt is your goal. So this one is from Ynab or you need a budget.com and it's going through somebody's budget who wants to pay off $26,000 of debt with a $35,000 per year. So you can see big difference where Caroline was making $17,000 and this couple is making 35. So what did you think, Jill?
- [34:11]
Jill
I like this article because it gives you real time examples of where is the money going, what is the plan? And not that this is going to look like everybody's situation by any means, but it does give us some ideas of how we can go about tackling this. Because and the reason we're including this in this particular episode is because this is a reason for a lot of people to not pay off debt of I don't make enough money. And so we're kind of pushing back on that a little bit to say, well maybe you can't pay off six figures of debt in five months while you make a $35,000 a year salary, but what can be done and what creative ways can we be looking at this? So I like the real time example of here's how much money they bring in. This is where the money goes. This is the plan for how they're going to do this one. The things that stood out to me in just looking at their budget is where they really cut back extremely. However, and the article does highlight this, it is for a time. This is not for forever, this is for a season to be able to get out of debt quickly. So they made some drastic life changes from extremely limiting entertainment if not having nearly zero in entertainment. I mean they are paying for like Netflix and Hulu on this example budget. But there's no gifts, there's no presents, there's no vacation, there's no birthday parties and that is extreme and that seems like bah humbug type stuff. However, they continue to highlight it's for an 18 month period. They're not gonna forever and always not do Christmas presents, birthday presents, no vacation. It is for this time so that they don't have to stay in this rut of making a low income and having the burden of debt. So cutting back really extremely for a season.
- [36:13]
Jen
Yeah, this article was super convicting to me because I had a $35,000 income before I met Travis, and I had $50,000 of debt. And I thought, I will be in debt forever. There's no way I can get out of this. $35,000 is too low. And to see a budget that has this couple paying it off in 18 months and realizing I could have done it in three years, like, I could have done it in three Years, and I just didn't know. When I say that, I'm like, man, there. How many other people are out there making $35,000 and in the same place I was. And if you're really, like, gung ho about it, you could be done in three years, not forever. And part of that was, like, I didn't want to waste the rest of my 20s paying off debt, but then I was like, three years from then, I would have still been in my twenties. So it's just. It's crazy. Your mind will say, you can't do this. Like, this is impossible. It's too big. But the numbers say it's possible. If you follow the numbers, make no.
- [37:27]
Jill
Mistake, this is bare bones. It does.
- [37:29]
Jen
This is small.
- [37:30]
Jill
Yeah. Little things that are laughable on this budget. Like, why spend? You know, they have both Netflix and Hulu, but yet they're cutting out, like, so many other things. Like, They've only got $10 for medical expenses, so I'd be like, well, cut out at least one of those TV subscriptions. And then it's also funny, they have his and her spending. His spending is a bit more than her spending. So I don't know about this. What are their names? Jenny and Erin. But, yeah, a good example of kind of. All right, where can we put this money? Certainly their mortgage is very low. Their water and electric bill are very low. So certainly this is dependent on what your particular expenses are, how much money you're bringing in. But to show you, ultimately, my takeaway on this is, this is bare bones. We've got to go so bare bones. And we've got to get really creative on how to cut to be this bare bones. And I think it goes back to Caroline's article of they're probably diying a lot. They've really cut their grocery budget. They're definitely eating at home a lot. They are not going out. They're not doing any of the extras. They're not spending money on gifts or presents or even any version of luxury items for themselves, including just a small coffee. It's not happening in this budget.
- [38:55]
Jen
Yeah, some of the Things that we can get into the nitty gritty on this. So like they have 2, 1350 paychecks per month. Health insurance and retirement contributions are withheld so they don't appear in the budget. As well as some 401k loan payments are also withheld. Something that I found really interesting in the budget is that this couple is giving to charity every month. And like Significantly, they're giving $300 a month to in tithing and other charitable donations. And so this is something that they have prioritized. Like you can see everything else. There's no like no birthdays, no anniversary, no date nights, no like gifts, no nothing and then but $300 to charity. So there is even room in this budget for wiggle room if that's not something you're going to do as much. So it's not like they're maxing out their budget on just, just their bills. Like there is, there is room in this budget.
- [39:59]
Jill
Something else that did stand out to me is that they are setting aside money monthly to kind of go into a pot for different spending. So the one thing is weekend fun. So they are putting $10 a month aside for weekend fun. So that certainly doesn't mean that they're having weekend fun every weekend. That means maybe once a quarter they've got 40 to 50 bucks to spend on a weekend. Or you do small things here and there, but that there is still small amounts of money that they are setting aside that they can pull from that would be minor luxuries, minor rewards in this process. So I think that is something worth considering, even setting aside a few bucks here and there that you can utilize for those times when you really do need just a little bit of a pick me up for all of the work and sacrifice that you're putting in.
- [40:57]
Jen
Yeah, well, I think it's essential while you're paying off debt. I recommend that people create milestones within their debt payoff and have it be a milestone you can reach at least every other month to every three to four months and you're saving every month. And then when you hit those milestones, you get a reward that's proportionate to the milestone that you're hitting and you take it from that fund. So then again, you're planning for it in advance. It's also something that you're working towards. You know it's on the horizon. And so you work towards it to get to it maybe a little faster because you really want whatever that reward is. So it's essential to be doing something like that. But when you plan for it, it stops being one of those things that, oh my God, I'm so bored. I haven't done something in so long. Let me spend $40 to do this. And then you bust your budget and you feel guilty and it starts being something like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to do that. It's $40. I can't wait to do it. And then you do it and you feel good about it, and you spend the money and you feel good about it.
- [42:03]
Jill
Yeah. I also, like with this example of paying down debt on a low income is the process then that they lay out. So not just the budget that they're going to be working off of, but a plan of action. And so they first describe how they're going to pay off off two credit cards with savings, followed by using a little bit of the extra savings to pay down a final credit card, moving into focusing on the fourth credit card with the payments that they're going to make monthly, which moves into using a work bonus to pay off the credit cards, then work bonus and snowballing your monthly payments to pay down the car loan. Like it's actionable steps going in consecutive order of one another.
- [42:54]
Jen
Yeah.
- [42:55]
Jill
So they've even said, like, here's what we're gonna do from now until the end of the year. Here's what we're gonna do the first three months of the new year, here's what we're gonna do through the summer. And it's kind of laid out in this way, which I think is a really great plan of action. In this person's example, they're apparently getting a $3,000 bonus. So I know that that's not everybody's reality. That's what they're able to work with. But again, all. And what works for one is not going to work for another. However, we utilize all these examples to say, what is your story and where can you utilize creativity? Where might you have something that other people don't have that you can use to your advantage to get out of debt or to reach a savings goal or to increase your income? You know, I know for me, I often use the example of living in really non traditional housing that we house sat for a little bit. We lived in a trailer. I know that that cannot be everybody's circumstances, but I'm going to keep highlighting it in case it works for somebody. But also to recognize there is wiggle room for creativity here. There are ways that we can say, well, is there a non traditional path that I can take that will help me get out of this very difficult circumstance. So, anyhow, all that to say it is good to have a plan, and it is good to kind of put it in consecutive order of once this is done, what comes next? What's our plan for how we're going to get there? And then, as you mentioned, Jen, celebrate. You know, after you've done and accomplished each one of these steps, do something small. Doesn't even have to cost you anything. You can do something for free, but give yourself these little rewards as you accomplish each one of these steps, steps along the way.
- [44:43]
Jen
Absolutely. And then the last thing I want to point out about this strategy is that it emphasizes putting the focus on one thing at a time. When you are trying to dig out of a big hole with a little shovel, that hole can feel overwhelming. All you see is the big number and you say, I can't do this. And so what the key is, is to focus on one thing at a time, one financial goal at a time, one milestone at a time. And just work towards that one milestone and ignore the bigger number and say, okay, I may not get to it, but I'm gonna get to this one. Okay. And then maybe after I do that, I take a break for a month or something and then I get right back on track and I work to the next milestone to the point where I'm not taking any more breaks anymore. I'm just keeping going and going and going. But focusing on one thing at a time is a powerful psychological tool to make big breakthroughs. So that's the last thing I liked about this.
- [45:44]
Jill
But you know what else is a.
- [45:46]
Jen
Big breakthrough and something I like to move on to?
- [45:50]
Jill
The bill of the week.
- [46:02]
Jen
That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton.
- [46:19]
Jill
This is the bill of the week.
- [46:23]
Jen
Hey, frugal friends. My name is Ellie, here in Israel. Well, I actually got a promotion at my job, and my husband and I decided that we were gonna celebrate later that night. We were getting ready, and I randomly found $21 bills just laying next to my bed. It was a little random just because we haven't used US Currency in the past about two years, but that's okay. I'll take it. That ended up going towards our date night so we didn't have to dip into our date night fun, which was totally amazing and made me extra happy that day. Anyways, you ladies keep up the good work. Thanks. Oh my gosh. What a gift from the universe.
- [47:09]
Jill
That's amazing. I love finding money that wasn't expected. But how great. There's so many layers in this one.
- [47:16]
Jen
I know.
- [47:16]
Jill
We're about to go celebrate a promotion. Congratulations. That's what we hope for on this frugal journey. But then even that your celebration didn't really have to cost you anything because of this nice gift of US dollar bill currency that you found. What a way to just enjoy a night together and celebrating growth in your life. Congratulations, Ellie.
- [47:46]
Jen
I'm stoked for everything in your life right now. And yeah, we hope 2021 brings you more promotions and more date nights and more random money. I wish that for everyone listening for everybody.
- [48:00]
Jill
Random money.
- [48:01]
Jen
Yes.
- [48:03]
Jill
You get a money. You get a money.
- [48:05]
Jen
Not from me though. You find a money. You find a money. Well, if you find a money, please Visit us@frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill and tell us about it.
- [48:18]
Jill
Yes, we want to hear it. We want to hear about the money you found, the money you spent, the money you. You saved. All of it.
- [48:24]
Jen
Yeah, especially the money you saved and found.
- [48:26]
Jill
Yes, yes, the money you spent if it's on paying down your debt.
- [48:29]
Jen
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Jill
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Jen
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Jill
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Jen
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Jen
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Jill
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Jen
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Jill
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Jen
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Jill
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Jen
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Jill
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Jen
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- [50:31]
Jill
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- [50:53]
Jen
Lenovo Lenovo.
- [51:00]
Jill
Now it's time for the Lightning round, which turns into a song.
- [51:08]
Jen
Somehow always so Jill, you came up with. Did you come up with this lightning round?
- [51:13]
Jill
No. You did. No, I did. I forgot how proud of yourself.
- [51:17]
Jen
Well, I forgot I didn't write the last lightning round till the last minute and I didn't remember writing this one. I wrote these outlines last week, so that's where my head is at. But. But it's a good one. I'll brag on myself. We are sharing the key to bringing yourself out of the low income trap. So as two people who have lived on relatively low incomes, like I won't lie, like $35,000 isn't super low, but it's not average. So it felt so even though it wasn't as low. Now that I know more people who have actually lived on low incomes, when I was living in it, it felt low and compared to my parents and my parents friends, it was low. So low isn't always a number. Low income isn't always a number. It's a state of mind a lot of the times.
- [52:12]
Jill
Yeah, it can be relative and sometimes we can look back and think, man, that was really low compared to where I am now. Or oh wow, I could have actually done more with that because it wasn't as low as I thought. Which leads me to my tip, which is mindset shift where I think in getting out of this low income trap, I think this is a big component. It might not feel as tangible as we want it to feel. I talked about this in a previous episode too. I think like mindset shifts, we need to make that. I would often tell myself, like my internal narrative was, I'm never gonna make a lot of money. I'm a social worker, my husband works for himself, our income is irregular and we are always going to poor. Granted, I have always recognized and hope that I continue to recognize that we have amazing family and friends, that we've not experienced homelessness. Although some people might have considered me living in a vehicle to be that.
- [53:19]
Jen
Perspective.
- [53:20]
Jill
Yeah, perspective. But this thought that I'm never gonna make a lot of money, that was keeping me stuck, it meant that then I wasn't working towards anything beyond that because I was just like, I'm just poor. And sometimes I viewed myself as a charity case. Like, well, yeah, people should give me free stuff or if somebody gives us dinner, thank you, like I need that. And I did, granted. But it kind of kept me in this place. And when I started to make the shift and started to realize, oh, this isn't a place that I need to set up my tent that I need to live out of, that really shifted some things for me. That yes, I'm still a social worker, I'm still living in the field, I didn't switch to being a lawyer suddenly, but I am making more money and it is possible for me to make more money, whether it is, I mean, even maintaining my social work job, but maybe doing some side hustles of things that I enjoy or looking to cut expenses in ways that I didn't think was possible. You name it. Mindset shift has been a huge one for me that it doesn't have to stay in this place and it doesn't mean that I have to change what I do or what I love, make more money, because I know that's a big thing too for people in low income careers like social work or teaching or any kind of human service profession. It's like, I make a low income, but I love what I do. Or you know, you're not going to be able to pull me away from these kids or this population. I get it. But that doesn't mean that you need to be devalued in your financial earnings. It doesn't mean that you have to stay there. And that is like the banner over you for the rest of your life. You can stay in, in the work that you're doing and find creative ways, whether it is inside hustles or whether it is equipping yourself further so that your income potential grows.
- [55:17]
Jen
Absolutely. Amen. Yeah, I mean, I can't say much more than that, but again, I think my Answer is also mindset shifts. When I think of the biggest things that I have done to specifically earn more income when I was willing myself into it by trying to use just physical force, like my time and my body, like most of you probably know, like, I tried that for two months when we were starting to pay off debt and I worked myself into shingles. Like I got shingles at the ripe age of 26 from overworking. So it didn't work out for me just to like bash sheer brute strength to increase my income. But when I started to familiarize myself with other people that were making more money than me, then I started to see like, oh, this person has. And then I got to meet these people and I was like, these people are not more special than I am. They are not more educated, they are not more talented, they don't work longer, they don't work harder. But they have found a way to make more by simply getting creative and believing a they are worth more and that there is more to be made even in their selected profession. For me, I was making $35,000 a year and I was an acupuncturist, and that's not a lucrative job. And I.
- [56:51]
Jill
But it took a lot of investment in yourself. I mean, that's the equivalent of a master's degree that you have to do that.
- [56:56]
Jen
I did. Yeah. I got a master's degree and that was the debt I paid off. And. And like a lot of other people that I'm sure got master's degrees for fields that did not give them the pay increase they thought they were going to get. And so I did that. But then I realized, like, I had hit the cap for what I was going to make with acupuncture. And so it was a super difficult decision. But I decided to leave the industry to pursue a career in writing that I saw could be much more lucrative. So it provided a small income jump initially, but I knew the room for income, the ceiling was a lot higher and in some cases for some people, no ceiling. But that was a really hard decision. And so now I very much advocate for people not staying in the jobs that they are in, that if you want to raise your income and you don't want to work a side hustle, then look for another job in the same field, whatever, maybe a different city, maybe the same city that pays more. Because raises are hard to come by. I was getting a 3% raise every year at the clinic. My boss was amazing and consistent with that. But 3% every year was only going to keep up with inflation. And I wanted to. I was at the point where I was like, I know people are doing this and I know I can do it. And I'm. I feel like I've hit the ceiling. And that was me. It was really hard to leave something that I loved, but I was able to find something I loved even more. And honestly, when I quit, I didn't know. I wasn't confident that I was gonna like writing full time. I knew I liked writing on the side, but I was like, I could hate this. I could start doing it full time and hate it. But I needed to take that risk and just see so that I wasn't wondering what if.
- [58:45]
Jill
Well, and I wanna highlight for you too. Cause yeah, it's kind of different sides of a similar coin that you did leave your career, but that didn't mean that you left it just to make money. You left it for also something that you enjoy and that helps people, that you are encouraging others in their finances, showing people what's possible, giving tools, equipping others. So while I say you don't have to leave your field if you love it to make more money, it is also possible that maybe you're a multifaceted person and you have more than one entry and you can pursue something else that might be a bit more lucrative for you. And yes, I will acknowledge this can take time. You know, I talked about how I made 18,000, both my husband and I, so this is jointly, we made $18,000 take home in 2018. And that was partly the sacrifice and the investment that we made so that I could equip myself. So this is not gonna be like snap your fingers and jump to stage 15. There are gonna be steps that take and sacrifices we make along the way. But consider what your options are and consider shifting your mindset to think outside of the box that I don't have to stay in this place, or if I do wanna stay in the field I'm in and I'm only getting incremental salary increases. Maybe consider moving to a different location or practice or business doing a similar thing, but you're more likely to increase your pay exponentially switching companies than staying with the same one and just taking the standard pay increase every year. So there's lots of different things to consider there. But ultimately, thinking outside the box, creativity, equipping yourself, considering location change, considering field change, all of these things can help us when we're on low incomes.
- [60:40]
Jen
Yeah. And two more things I want to say. The first is if you keep hearing suggestions over and over and over again about how to lower your expenses and increase your income. And two, every suggestion, you say, I can't do that, I can't do that. I'm not willing to do that. And to the point where you say, I just can't get any useful information out of anybody, then you have to start to reexamine. Like, is it the people giving you the recommendations or is it your unwillingness to change for a season? So that's like a hard realization.
- [61:14]
Jill
That's a hard thing.
- [61:15]
Jen
Yeah. You have to be willing to do things that you don't want to do for a period of time in order to better your life.
- [61:24]
Jill
And then, because there is no magic, like, there's no magic one that any one of us can give to any person who's making $18,000 a year. It doesn't exist.
- [61:33]
Jen
It doesn't.
- [61:34]
Jill
Other than in saying what needs to happen to move forward from this place.
- [61:39]
Jen
Yeah. And then one last thing on my story. So I think when I recommend people switch their jobs, they're like, oh, but the job market is so volatile. What if I lose that job? Like, I'm in a really safe job right now. I will say from experience, yeah, it's possible you lose your job. I got fired from that writing job a year after I took it and which forced me into entrepreneurship.
- [62:01]
Jill
You got laid off. Fire you for having a.
- [62:04]
Jen
They had a mass layoff. I was one of 45 people laid off. I don't know what you do so bad as a writer that you would get fired, but at a personal finance website. But yeah, and I lost it. And I took the skills that I had gotten from that job and implemented them immediately to start working for myself. So, like, there are very few reasons why anything is a bad idea. Like any of these recommendations. Yes, there could always be a downside to doing one, but there's always an upset. I may have never gone full time into my business had I not been laid off. I mean, I always wanted to, but I may not have had the courage to. And I'm not saying, like, everybody has to be self employed. That is not the path for everyone. But there are jobs out there. They do pay more. They are not finite. They are out there.
- [63:00]
Jill
And more and more. You know, one of the silver linings of this pandemic is how many companies have moved to online remote work. So that that whole avenue, I think, is opening up more and more where people might be able to switch jobs more easily because spots that maybe aren't super local to you are Starting to open up opportunities.
- [63:31]
Jen
I really liked the low income trap part, like the. To round it out because our hope and our idea is that low income may be happening to you either by choice or by circumstance, but it is never a place that is sustainable. So and, and it's not going to help you grow financially or mentally or in the things that money can't be by. So if there is a level of income that is really stifling, then working on getting out of that low income trap, I think is truly the first.
- [64:24]
Jill
Key, the best place to be putting our time, energy and attention because there's only so much we can do to cut our expenses. And I know that we talked about that in this episode, but eventually we. It's going to need to cause us to look at how can we earn more. And related to the low income trap. You and I, Jen, have learned more kind of on this topic. How we engage with the world and the ways that things are sold to us. Since we recorded this episode, we've been in the process of writing this book. Now the book is available in Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke. We talk about marketing and the ways in which marketers try to appeal to us. And I think with the Low Income Trap, it's not just marketing. There's a whole system at play here that can kind of keep us down. But certainly the ways in which products and experiences and services are marketed to us can help to perpetuate some of this trap that we can find ourselves in when we don't give ourselves that space to identify why am I spending? Are there other ways that I can meet my needs that are free or low cost? Cost. And so I think sometimes building out this knowledge and understanding and being able to identify where, where we are being cheated, where we are not getting the most that we actually truly deserve, can also be helpful in this, in this space.
- [65:55]
Jen
Yeah. And I don't think it just the marketing aspect doesn't just get us to buy things, but when we're in this low income space, it gets us to think that we deserve less, that we are not capable of being more, accomplishing more, doing more. And so if we're not, if we're not capable, then we might as well just take the little treats that they throw at us. So that I think is the true disservice that a lot of this marketing like plays. It's not just when you're low income, you're not buying a ton of stuff anyways. So you think this, you know, can't be helpful, but it does perpetuate this idea that we can't lift ourselves out of where we are. So we might as well just, you know, treat ourselves to little things over and over. So I hope that maybe this has inspired you you to think bigger, to think more and if you can't, to surround yourself with people who can think that for you in real life, not just on the Internet, like, not like Internet scammers that are like, you can build a million dollar business just like me. That's not what we're talking about. Put yourself in community with people that can help you think bigger and it will take time. And that's why we like to talk about saving money and optimizing our spending. Because that' something you can do today even if the income piece can't be handled today. And if this has helped you, I hope that you will leave us a rating and review on Apple or a rating and comment on Spotify. Kind of like Britti K. Did they say Great podcast. I have never been a podcast girly, but I listen to Frugal Friends every day that I work from the office. I listen to one episode on my way in, one episode on my way home. This podcast has given me a bunch of tips and and tricks on how to be a better adult all around. I appreciate that consistently listening to this podcast has helped me stay true to my goals and make progress more quickly. I've always been a consumer and changing the mindset to values based spending is hard, but Jen and Jill make it a lot easier. Thank you for all that you do and the information that you are putting into the world.
- [68:25]
Jill
Ooh, Britti K. This is a really fun review.
- [68:29]
Jen
Thank you.
- [68:30]
Jill
I love the fact that you've never been a podcast girly but you're listening to us twice a day. You really, you're getting the most. You dove head first into the deep end and are listening to us constantly, but it sounds like it's just helping you to kind of stay on track and rethink some things. This is a really encouraging review for us and I imagine a really helpful review for other potential listeners. So if you are one of those current listeners who also wants to be helpful and you haven't left us a review or rating, please do so. So if you can do that on Apple or Spotify, again, it's encouraging to us and it's helpful to other people identifying Will this be a good fit for me? Will this help me? I'm not a podcast girly, but should I give it a try? So thanks for doing that.
- [69:18]
Jen
Yeah. Thank you. And we will see you next time. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni. Okay, I don't think we have any ideas for what to talk about right now because we're both looking at each other like, this comes out usually organically, that one of us will have something to tell the other. But I think we have seen each other so too much in the past six weeks. There is nothing left.
- [69:58]
Jill
Here's the thing, though. We're not in person right now. We haven't recorded separately because we've been together.
- [70:06]
Jen
I need to go home. I need to be home. Like, I need to see my family. I'm just kidding.
- [70:12]
Jill
Like, that's what happens.
- [70:15]
Jen
I need to see my house. My house needs love. And, like, I can't. I can't keep doing this, leaving the house every day for work.
- [70:25]
Jill
Jill, I can't keep coming to your place. You need to meet me in the middle.
- [70:33]
Jen
Even meeting in the middle doesn't work. We tried a co Working space for two weeks, and I was like, isn't.
- [70:39]
Jill
I did like that.
- [70:41]
Jen
Nah, it was okay. I would have loved an office. Okay.
- [70:46]
Jill
If we had a private. You wanted to drop so much money on this.
- [70:50]
Jen
That's. I know.
- [70:51]
Jill
Okay. But we have a private office in my home, so what's the.
- [70:54]
Jen
I know. Well, that's why I prefer, like, doing that.
- [70:58]
Jill
Just realizing you just want to be.
- [71:00]
Jen
Home, like, two days a week.
- [71:04]
Jill
Mm.
- [71:05]
Jen
Yeah, I do. I. Yeah, I do. And that's.
- [71:10]
Jill
I'm glad you're getting that today.
- [71:12]
Jen
It's not that I want to be home. It's that my home looks like a twister went off in. In it. And it takes time to reset. Like, literally, Atlas just runs through the house, and anything we have on a counter, he's like one of these minimalism gurus that's like. Like, clear your spaces, your horizontal spaces. Because he'll just clear our horizontal spaces for us, our countertops, coffee table, and.
- [71:37]
Jill
Then it's just all on the ground stands.
- [71:39]
Jen
Right. But it's all on the ground. So he's, like, not there yet. Yet. But eventually, I think he will possibly be, like, a minimalism guru. He is that extreme. He's either he's going to one end or the other, and I. I don't know how I'm going to teach him. Radical middle.
- [71:57]
Jill
He's never going to learn it.
- [72:00]
Jen
I don't say as possible. I don't know. We'll see. But, like, that's what I have to do. When we get off of recording is pick up the other the larger horizontal space in my house.
- [72:11]
Jill
Wow. Godspeed dude.
- [72:13]
Jen
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- [72:45]
Jill
Presents Painful Thoughts the guy in front.
- [72:49]
Jen
Of me in the pharmacy line is halfway through an incredibly detailed 17 minute story about his gout.
- [72:58]
Jill
A story likely more painful than the gout itself.
- [73:03]
Jen
Next time, save yourself the pain and let Amazon Pharma Pharmacy deliver your meds.
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Jill
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- [73:08]
Jen
Amazon Pharmacy Healthcare just got less painful.
- [73:15]
Jill
Whether you're ordering wings for the game.
- [73:17]
Jen
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- [73:30]
Jill
To buy one get one Wings.
- [73:31]
Jen
Uber Eats will be dropping new deals.
- [73:33]
Jill
Each week all season long.
- [73:35]
Jen
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Jill
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- [73:46]
Jen
In the now access to resi priority.
- [73:48]
Jill
Notify yes 4pm checkout with fine hotels and resorts booked through Amex Travel. We needed this and dedicated card member.
- [73:58]
Jen
Entrances at select events.
- [74:01]
Jill
Let's go.
- [74:02]
Jen
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- [74:07]
Jill
Terms apply.
- [74:08]
Jen
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- [74:11]
Jill
Entrance access not limited to Amex Platinum Card.