What to Do if You Have More Debt Than You Make in a Year

Summary

Frugal Friends Podcast: What to Do if You Have More Debt Than You Make in a Year

Podcast Information:

• Title: Frugal Friends Podcast
• Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
• Description: Controlling your spending is hard to do. On every episode of Frugal Friends, we'll try to help you gain a little more control on one aspect of the countless directions your money is being pulled toward through frugality and a few laughs. If you're trying to save money, spend less, adopt minimalism, pay off debt, or reach financial independence, we think you'll like the show.
• Episode: What to Do if You Have More Debt Than You Make in a Year
• Release Date: July 1, 2025

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Introduction

In this poignant episode, Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni delve deep into a financial predicament that overwhelms many: having more debt than annual income. They candidly share their personal experiences, offer actionable advice, and provide listeners with hope and strategies to navigate through such financial challenges.

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Personal Debt Journeys

Jen's Story ([03:06]): Jen opens up about her past struggles, revealing, "I was there when I started paying off debt. We had $78,000 of debt and we did not earn $78,000 in a year. But we got it paid off in two years."

Jill's Experience ([03:34]): Jill echoes a similar sentiment, sharing, "I had $33,000 in just student loan debt and I did not make that in a year. And that can be extra overwhelming when you've got a lower income and more debt than you make in a year."

Both hosts emphasize the emotional toll of debt, especially when income is insufficient to cover it, highlighting the shared struggle that many listeners can relate to.

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Understanding the Psychological Impact of Debt

Discussion on CNBC Article ([06:16] - [21:07]): Jen and Jill discuss insights from a CNBC article titled "How to Stop Obsessing Over Your Debt According to Hockeyberg Expert." They emphasize the normalization of debt in society and how excessive focus on debt can harm mental and emotional well-being.

Key Insights:

1. Debt as a Normal Part of Life ([10:49] - [12:21]):

   • Jen: "Debt is often a part of life."
   • They discuss how societal acceptance of debt, such as student loans and mortgages, can alleviate the shame and guilt often associated with owing money.

2. Assessing Your Actual Debt ([12:21] - [14:38]):

   • Jill: "Consider how much debt you actually have."
   • Emphasizes the importance of evaluating the total debt and differentiating between debts that hinder financial growth and those that can aid it.

3. Making Progress Over Perfection ([14:38] - [17:07]):

   • Jen: "Ask yourself whether you're making progress."
   • Encourages listeners to focus on incremental debt repayment, celebrating small victories to reduce obsession and stress.

4. Understanding the 'Why' Behind Your Debt ([17:07] - [21:07]):

   • Jill: "Consider the why behind your debt."
   • Highlights the importance of attaching meaning to debt, whether it's for education, essential purchases, or other life goals, to mitigate feelings of guilt and shame.

Notable Quote:

Jen at [14:38]: "If you're doing everything reasonably possible, given your circumstances, to becoming debt free, then this could be some level of permission to not continually obsess over money."

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Practical Tips to Manage High Debt-to-Income Ratios

Motley Fool Article Discussion ([24:46] - [43:28]): The hosts transition to discussing practical strategies from The Motley Fool’s article, "Five Tips to Lower Your Debt to Income Ratio." They break down each tip, integrating personal anecdotes and expert advice.

Key Tips:

1. Calculate Your Debt-to-Income Ratio ([25:34] - [28:30]):

   • Jen: "Let's say you earn $6,000 a month before taxes... the ideal debt to income is about 36%."
   • Guides listeners on calculating their ratio and understanding lender concerns, especially for mortgages.

2. Lower Your Interest Rates ([28:30] - [30:13]):

   • Jill: "Call your lender and ask for a reduction in the interest rate."
   • Suggests negotiating with lenders to lower interest rates, thereby reducing overall debt burden.

3. Put Credit Cards on Ice ([30:13] - [36:13]):

   • Jen: "Consider freezing your credit cards in a literal block of ice."
   • Advocates for creating barriers to impulsive spending, such as locking away credit cards or using digital tools like the Icebox Chrome extension.

4. Implement a 24-Hour Rule ([36:13] - [43:28]):

   • Jill: "Give yourself a 24-hour pause before making any non-essential purchases."
   • Encourages delaying purchases to avoid impulse buying, allowing time to assess the necessity of the expense.

5. Take on an Enjoyable Side Hustle ([36:30] - [43:28]):

   • Jen: "Find a side hustle you can enjoy that also makes money."
   • Recommends engaging in side jobs that are both profitable and enjoyable to increase income without added stress.

Notable Quote:

Jill at [34:43]: "With the 24-hour rule, it's if you want to purchase anything... you can give it 24 hours. Most of the time... you're not going to end up buying it and we can make better decisions with our money."

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Lightning Round: Overcoming Debt Overwhelm

Personal Strategies ([47:23] - [57:24]): In the lightning round, Jen and Jill share personal methods that helped them cope with the stress of high debt.

Jen's Approach ([47:35] - [50:03]):

• Jen: "I overcame it by paying it off."
• She describes compartmentalizing her stress, visualizing her debt issues as items she can revisit, and maintaining a structured plan to steadily reduce debt over seven years.

Jill's Strategy ([50:05] - [52:40]):

• Jill: "Having the partnership of my husband was crucial."
• Emphasizes the power of teamwork and support from a partner in managing and overcoming debt.

Notable Quote:

Jen at [53:53]: "Where you are now is not where you have to be in the future. There's always creativity that can happen to expand our opportunities."

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Conclusion and Encouragement

The hosts wrap up the episode by reinforcing the message that overcoming significant debt is achievable with the right mindset, strategies, and support systems. They remind listeners that everyone's financial journey is unique and encourage persistence and adaptability in their debt repayment efforts.

Final Thoughts:

• Emphasizing that debt doesn't define one's future.
• Encouraging proactive measures and continuous learning.
• Highlighting the importance of aligning debt repayment with personal values and long-term goals.

Call to Action:

• Listeners are encouraged to read their book, "Buy What You Love Without Going Broke," available at buywhatyoulovebook.com, and to leave reviews to help others understand the book's value.

Notable Quote:

Jill at [56:29]: "What can happen on the other side of debt freedom is really, really amazing... you could find yourself in a place where you don't have to focus on earning more."

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Key Takeaways:

• Normalization of Debt: Recognizing that debt is a common aspect of modern life can reduce feelings of isolation and shame.
• Practical Strategies: Implementing tools like calculating debt-to-income ratios, negotiating interest rates, and using behavioral hacks can significantly impact debt management.
• Psychological Wellness: Addressing the mental and emotional aspects of debt is as crucial as the financial strategies employed.
• Support Systems: Leveraging support from partners or communities can provide the necessary encouragement and accountability to stay on track.

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For More Resources:

• Annual Finance Planner: The hosts offer an Annual Finance Planner to help organize financial tasks and responsibilities, available at a discounted rate using the code Summer50.
• Side Hustle Series: Explore their side hustle series for more ideas on increasing income streams in enjoyable ways.

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Stay Connected: Subscribe to the Frugal Friends Podcast on your preferred platform and join the community aiming for financial independence through frugality and smart money management.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the provided instructions.

Transcript

[Jill]

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[Jen]

Do if you have more debt than you make in a year.

[Unknown]

Welcome to.

[Jill]

The Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live a richer life. Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

[Jen]

Welcome to Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen.

[Jill]

My name is Jill.

[Jen]

And today we are talking about a thing that so many of us struggle with is having more debt than the amount we earn in a year. I was there when I started paying off debt. We had $78,000 of debt and we did not earn $78,000 in a year. But we got it paid off in two years and we're gonna talk about how we did that.

[Jill]

Yeah, same same. I had $33,000 in just student loan debt and I did not make that in a year. And that can be extra overwhelming when you've got a lower income and more debt than you make in a year because it feels like an extra hurdle to have to get get over of. I already don't make a ton. I'm very much living paycheck to paycheck. Where am I going to find this money to pay off the debt? But we're here to tell you that it is possible and we're going to give you some hope and encouragement in this episode.

[Jen]

But first, this episode is brought to you by our annual Finance Planner. I found that I had about 20 different sheets, docs, and notes on my phone for everything from the wellness checks that I get included with my healthcare sharing or my health insurance to the things I have to do to maintain my home annually, my car every 50, 60,000 miles, my travel rewards cards, the benefits that each had when I signed up, when I have to cancel the card I want to get next all of these things. So what we did is that we made an annual finance Planner spreadsheet so you can have all of those lists in one place. So you can check it [e-mail] planner. If you're listening to a previous episode and you want to get our spending planner at that URL, you are out of luck because we've changed that to free frugalfriendspodcast.com budget. But if you go to frugalfriendspodcast.Com planner, you're going to see this annual finance planner that we created. And if you want to use the code Summer50, you could even get 50% off of it.

[Jill]

Love that.

[Jen]

Yeah. So frugalfriendspodcast.com planner. Check it out and organize your life.

[Jill]

Yeah, it's so fun. I love having everything all in one place like that.

[Jen]

Yes. So this summer we typically every summer we do a summer slowdown where we will play more frequent reruns of some of our most downloaded episodes from two plus years ago and this is one of them. You guys loved this episode and we are replaying it for you. It aged very well. So if you've been with us for less than two years, this is going to be brand new to you. But it's always good to have a reminder if you have been with us. So we hope you enjoy it.

[Jill]

Let's do it. Let's get into these articles. The first one comes from CNBC and it's titled how to stop obsessing over your debt according to hacksberg expert and I again, I love the normalization in here. I think we don't really realize how much other people are thinking about their finances. I know certainly for those in debt it can become all consuming. And so this was just helpful to see some of the statistics of what most other Americans are experiencing as it relates to their finances and hopefully help you feel validated in that but then not leave you there. Find ways to not feel as though you're obsessing. But they reference a study, a 2019 study that came from the Ascent just meets your criteria. Jen. 1,007 people were just the minimum polled in this research study and they found that when it comes to how often people are mulling over their bills, looking at it, thinking about it, I don't know, doing stuff with it, 28% said they think about the money they owe every single day, followed by 20% who think about their debt almost every day and another 20% who do so several times a week. That's a lot of mental and emotional space that this is taking up. And I mean finances are a part of our daily lives. Like we think about food every day. We probably think about some aspect of relationships every day. It would make sense that something related to finances would cross our minds. But I think there's they're pointing to specifically the bills, the debt and then the stress and overwhelm and it's not it didn't go so far as to say like how long, how much of the day this takes up. But if you've got debt on top of just normal financial decisions that you're making, then it's probably taking quite an emotional toll and you're not alone in that. Which yeah, I think all of that is super helpful to recognize. And so they're going into ways now to how do we alleviate some of this stress and overwhelm and the amount of times the frequency throughout the day that we're thinking about this. And the first tip that they give is to realize that debt is often a part of life. And I don't know that I've ever read this in an article before. This kind of permission to say debt will be there. It's not to say, oh well then just don't worry about it and collect more debt. Like I think we're all on a very similar page of we don't want this. But I think sometimes when we have this really shameful attitude about it or we feel really guilty about the debt that we've taken on, we can cause more overwhelm and strain to our mental and emotional health than what's necessary. And so kind of taking this more neutral approach, this more kind of radical middle acceptance of debt is just a part of life. Like for most of us we gotta take out student loans, for most of us we gotta go with a mortgage when we're buying a house. Like there are these debts that are just a part of life in today's landscape with buying vehicles, taking out a car payment is becoming more and more normalized. So I also really think this is a helpful concept even related to bigger part. Like all of life. I think there's this myth about self sufficient and like extreme independence. I think that really there is kind of an alongside, like we can't be completely self sufficient in any aspect of life. We always need help and support and some level of dependence. There can be a healthy dependence. But I think that there's a little bit of a myth of being completely independent, meaning you need no one and nothing. And so I think kind of putting debt under that category, category of sometimes this, the support of a lender, a helping hand is necessary. And man, that takes a lot of shame out of it.

[Unknown]

Yeah, absolutely. I'm pretty sick of the narrative that debt is the enemy. That like we believe debt is neutral, there is no good or bad debt. And there is debt that limits your financial opportunity. And there is debt that can aid in financial opportunity. And the same, same debt can be either of those. So you can use it, you can use debt alone to purchase a house or a car that is very helpful to gaining wealth and security and financial freedom. You can take out a loan for a house or a car that is very detrimental to reaching financial freedom or building wealth. So there is no good or Bad debt. So I'm sick of this narrative that debt is the enemy. Debt is a part of life. And I think once we realize that, then you don't have to live in the extremes of, oh, I live completely debt free, or, oh, I can't live completely debt free, so I might as well just take out debt for everything and take out as much of it as I want. When you are done living in those extremes, then you can think critically about the role that debt plays in your life.

[Jill]

So well said.

[Unknown]

Yes. And then you've got this picture of Susie Orman right underneath where she's, like, pointing and she's like, throw away your financial to do list.

[Jill]

Oh, man.

[Unknown]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jill]

Hot take Susie.

[Unknown]

Yeah, Susie. Hope your new book goes well. All right, number two is consider how much debt you actually have. And so again on this, this continuation of the idea, there is no good or bad debt. Debt is neutral. Debt is a tool. I mean, a hammer is a tool. It's great when you're hammering in a nail. It's horrible when you're, like, hammering your thumb because you missed the nail.

[Jill]

So, like, it's the same tool, renovation.

[Unknown]

Right. The hammer is not evil because you hit your thumb with it. So you need to consider how much debt a you actually have and, baby, be what you actually need. So I spent a lot of time feeling shame and guilt when I had debt because I was under this narrative that debt is the enemy and I let debt into my life. I opened the door for the enemy, essentially. So that gave me, like, a lot of guilt and shame when I was paying off debt. But I think if I could have reframed, if I had the perspective that I have now, I could have really thought more critically about it and said, okay, how much debt do I have? Which of these debts are limiting me in my financial growth and so what needs to be taken care of? And I would have made the same decision that I made to pay off all of our student loans, to pay off our car. I would have made the same decision. I don't regret paying off all of those, but I would have felt a lot less miserable about myself as a person because of having that debt. So I would say the article is saying it's not that you shouldn't be concerned about carrying debt, but just concerned about how much you have. I think it's really just a call to look at what you could do without the debt. Think about your values, think about your deeper why. Think about your family, your friends, all the things you could be Doing without the debt. And let that be the guide for why you pay it off, not because the debt itself is the enemy.

[Jill]

Yes, the deeper reason. And often we can connect to that deeper reason more than something that could feel arbitrary. Just this number on a screen or a piece of paper, number three I really love. Which is ask yourself whether you're making progress. If you're doing everything reasonably possible, given your circumstances, to becoming debt free, then this could be some level of permission to not continually obsess over money. If you are throwing any additional bonuses or unexpected income towards debt repayment, if you are cutting back in one specific area of life or going out to eat or entertainment in order to put more money towards debt, even if it's small or you just have a plan of some sort, this could give the freedom that's necessary to be able to let yourself rest in the fact that you're making progress, which can definitely limit the amount that we are thinking about it, the amount of space. Not to say we're not going to have thoughts about it, but if we know, no, I'm doing something towards this, it doesn't mean that I'm experiencing debt freedom immediately. But progress is happening. That can have a profound impact on the level of obsession that we experience. And they give examples of a mortgage payment. Obviously we could apply this to any other type of debt payment, but they reference that if your mortgage payment is $1,200 a month and you just add an additional 100 per month to the payment, make sure it goes to the principal, then you would be making an extra payment on your house essentially by the end of the year. And just that $100 extra per month could shave off four years of payments and thousands of interest over the lifetime of that loan, which is massive, like month to month, that probably wouldn't feel like a whole lot extra coming out of your bank account. But you are doing more than just the bare minimum, which we can rest in that we're not always going to be able to do everything. And I love that's why they say within your means and with what's reasonable, having that plan in place, knowing that you're making progress can really cause some of that peace to enter in. And way less obsession.

[Unknown]

Absolutely. And so the fourth and final one of how to limit this obsession and overwhelm with a big, big number on your debt is consider the why behind your debt. And so we think about the why behind why we want to pay off debt. That is something we talk about a lot. But in that we often Forget the why behind our debt. And that can cause us to feel really bad about it, a lot of guilt about it. And this was something that I experienced like very, very critically. I mean, I felt so dumb and my debt was just student loans. And I had 4,000 on a car that I paid off very quickly. The bulk of it was student loans. And I felt so dumb for taking out these loans. And when I looked back and thought about why did I take out student loans, it wasn't like I was impulse buying a degree. I was doing something that I was studying, something that I wanted to do that I don't regret studying or doing. That led me to where I am in my life right now. And all the great things that I have have right now are by some degree a direct result of getting that degree. And so nothing in me regrets taking out that money and getting that degree.

[Jill]

Yeah, I love this question because this is another one that's not talked about. I wish I had this article. During my debt free journey. There's so much that I just had to kind of come up with on my own of how to muddle through and this probably did exist. I just, I don't know, I wasn't looking for it. But this question of putting meaning to the debt, not just meaning to the future financial goals can really help us to feel again the removal of shame. I think so much of the obsession with the debt can be very integrally connected with whether or not we feel guilt or shame over it. And we just want that gone like we want the guilt and shame gone. But we can get rid of the guilt and shame far before the debt is actually paid off. As we begin to implement some of these mindset shifts and yeah, I think too we can choose whether or not we value that. I think oftentimes I knew the why for the debt and I was upset at the why. Like I got upset with myself for going to college. Like that was a waste of money. And now I'm still not making more than what I owe back in debt. But that was a mindset choice. Like I chose to not value my education so I even needed to back up from there. I'm speaking to my like older past self to have valued that because maybe I didn't feel the value of my education in that moment, but 15 years later, I am 15 years later. I'm very glad that I got my bachelor's and then my master's and there was a reason and a benefit to that debt. I just, yeah, I think valuing it and attaching a level of meaning to it that's gonna be helpful rather than a hindrance.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And if that's not your story, maybe you actually don't love your degree. Or maybe your debt is more consumer. I would still challenge you to think about the seasons and the events in your life that were a direct result of those experiences that were provided by this quote unquote debt.

[Jill]

Yep, there's still learning that's happening. Even if you're in debt because you just wanted to go on all of the vacations, value those memories, find ways to attach meaning to that, and then learn from it. How do I want to now spend my vacations in the future that aren't going to feel so overwhelming or all consuming?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jen]

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[Jill]

Oh beautiful. I'm so glad these articles are being written.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Jill]

Okay, so this next article comes from. Oh, the Motley fool and it's talking about five tips to lower your debt to income ratio. If anyone has applied for a loan, a mortgage, trying to buy a car, this suddenly becomes very important.

[Unknown]

Yeah, so the first article was more of like, okay, what do we do with the psychological ramifications of having more debt than we earn in a year? And this one is more of the practical aspects of, okay, what happens to me financially if I have a really high debt to income ratio? So we're going to go over these tips just to give a little practical info.

[Jill]

Yes, kick us off, Jen.

[Unknown]

All right, so the first one, if you have a High debt to income ratio. And let me just first let's figure out how to calculate our debt to income ratio, which is also called a dti, which is actually very important when getting a mortgage, but can be in other ways just in life. So let's say you earn $6,000 a month before taxes. That's what we're going to use in the DTI is the gross income, so that's 6,000 per month. And then you calculate all of your monthly debt. So that's mortgage or rent, they will include rent in there, auto loan, credit cards, personal loans, HOA fees, alimony, child support, all of that. And say that adds up to 2,500. So to calculate your DTI, you divide 2,500 by 6,000. So debt divided by income, gross income, and then multiply by 100. So 2,500 divided by 6,000 is 0.416 times 100, that's 41.6%. So the ideal debt to income is, let's see, I think it's about 30. Yeah, 36% is the accept quote unquote acceptable ratio. Anything higher and lenders begin to worry if you're at a 50% DTI, you will not be able to get a mortgage unless you have some creative financing strategy. So you've gotta stay below 50, which in our example, if you earn 6,000 before taxes and your debts are 3,000, so just $500 more, then you've really very limited as to what you can do if you're trying to buy a house. So we are trying to stay below 36% debt to income ratio. So if you find yourself, I would say anywhere above 30%, it should be your goal to kind of, to really work on this, especially if you're trying to buy a house. And the first way you would do that is to pay down high balances. And I would say look, just pay down balances, honestly, because they're not differentiating between type of debt. This is not like your credit score where they're taking into consideration types of debt. They are simply looking just at balances. So pay down any balance and so then you will get closer to that 36 or below percent DTI. You're going to reduce it with every balance you pay down.

[Jill]

Right. I appreciate this perspective because if your amount of debt is more than what you earn in a year, then we're not going to get it gone super quickly. And so this is more of that reduction model aimed at eventually becoming debt free. But for many of us, we're going to carry a mortgage for a good part of our working lives. And so what is the important thing to focus on? This would be kind of one of those first steps, like when we talk about the financial picture as a whole. And creating an emergency fund is one of the first steps. Similarly, when it comes to our debt, looking at our debt to income ratio and lowering that is going to be one of the first steps. And combined with that, number two is lower your interest on debt. We talk about this a ton. Some of the ways that you can do that, I mean first of all would be to look at paying down first your highest interest debt debts that will cause you to not have to pay as much of that interest. It's a good place to start. It means you're also getting rid of debt. They also reference. I had not thought of this before, but to call your lender and ask for a reduction in the interest rate if you've been working with that particular financial institution for a while and if you've been paying regularly and on time, they may want to keep you enough as a customer to lower that rate because they know you could transfer that loan elsewhere. Elsewhere. So those are a couple. I mean, again, first of all, just paying off your highest interest debts, calling around and asking it for lower rates would be a really great idea again to lower that debt to income ratio.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it does say consider getting a personal loan or a credit card to lower these. But I think the main reason you would focus on lowering your DTI is to get a house. And they don't want to see you opening anything new in the, in the last six months. So I, I wouldn't agree with that advice, but I would say normally we're neutral on debt avalanche versus debt snowball to pay off debt. I would say if your goal is to get a house pretty soon, to go more with the debt avalanche, because you're going to be able to lower your debt balance a little quicker. It doesn't give you the psychological thrill that the snowball will. But we're looking to make a decision that will be largely based on math. And so this would be the time to use a math tool to get that down lower. So this would be a place where we would favor the avalanche over the snowball. Third is to put credit cards on ice. And so they are literally.

[Jen]

They are.

[Unknown]

Literally saying some people have found that freezing their credit cards in a literal block of ice provides them with the time they need to talk themselves out of unnecessary purchases. So you can do that. But I think especially now that most of our credit cards are saved on our computer, this becomes less advantageous and I think just locking them so you can go into Chase, bank of America, whatever and lock the card, it shouldn't impede any recurring payments that come out. But any, like new payments, any, any things like that, but double check with your bank. So this is a very good strategy if you need some extra barriers to stop going into debt.

[Jill]

Yes. The next tip for lowering your debt to income ratio is to implement a 24 hour rule. And I will argue that this is a great one for all of us. This is just a little frugal principle of being patient, giving ourselves margin and space in between wanting to purchase something and actually purchasing that item. But particularly when we are in debt payoff mode, not spending additional money that we don't need to spend is going to be really helpful. It's going to free up a lot of those finances to be able to put as much money towards the debt as possible. And so with the 24 hour rule, it's if you want to purchase anything, and I would add anything that's outside of what you have to buy, you know, your food, your bills, your housing and transportation, things that you have planned for to spend on things above and beyond that. This is really interrupting impulse spending. It's just one of those things that we can implement a rule for ourselves to wait the 24 hours, allow ourselves time to think through. Do I actually want to purchase that thing that I just saw in the store? Is it actually going to solve a problem, improve my life? Is it a necessary thing? Or would it be more advantageous for me to put whatever money I was just about to spend on that item towards my debt. Or again, for those who are even debt free towards any other financial goal, they give the example of like being out shopping with a friend and seeing a really lovely buffet table that would fit perfectly in your dining room and it's already been discounted several times. That is where it would get me. Like and it's on sale and it's calling my name and it's perfect. And they're like, things have been on sale a lot. It doesn't mean that you have to buy them and it doesn't mean that you have to buy it right away. You can give it 24 hours. Consider it. And if you've given it 24 hours and you still think that's a great thing, Granted. Right. Most of the time though, when we create space in between something that feels like it's drawing us in and calling our name. When we're no longer right in front of that, giving ourselves that time, most likely we're not going to end up buying it and we can make better decisions with our money. It's really this kind of training ground for that.

[Unknown]

Yes. So there is a free Chrome extension that I love for this and it's called icebox. It's by finder.com and you can just go in and Google icebox by finder.com and you'll get the page straight to the Google Chrome extension. I don't think it has any other extensions for any other browsers, but if you use Chrome, it's so wonderful. It replaces Buy now buttons on popular E commerce stores with a put it on icon ice button. And you get to decide how long that cool off period. So they call it how long the cool off period is. And so you could say 24 hours. I want it to go into my ice box for 24 hours before I'm able to purchase it. So you put it on ice and then the countdown starts, it goes into your icebox, and then 24 hours later, that button changes back to an add to cart button.

[Jill]

Dang. Dang. People love putting stuff on ice. Putting your credit cards in your freezer, putting purchases in a fictitious ice box on the computer.

[Unknown]

So, yes, after that cooling period, you can decide if you still want it or you can discard it. And I think it's wonderful. You can, of course, turn it off. It's not gonna limit you if you do need something in an emergency. But most things are not.

[Jill]

The nice thing about putting spending on ice is that then we can put our debt on fire. There's an equal and opposite reaction.

[Unknown]

That's a good one, Jill.

[Jill]

Thanks.

[Unknown]

Cool.

[Jill]

What's the next one?

[Unknown]

All right, the next on this article is to take on a side hustle you can enjoy.

[Jill]

I like that second bit.

[Unknown]

Yeah, right.

[Jill]

That you enjoy.

[Unknown]

Yes. So there we all work hard, right? Like, nobody's over here trying to scam the system. No matter how many people try and say millennials are not working and trying to scam the system.

[Jill]

I don't know. I am trying to retire. I'm over here, Jill, trying to retire.

[Unknown]

I try and save you in these episodes and then you go straight off and you're like, I would like to incriminate myself more. Anyways, I really do believe that everybody listening to the show and beyond, we really are trying to make the most of the limited life we've been given. And so while, yes, I think we do some of us are in a position to do more work than others. If you are single, if you have no kids, you are in a unique time in your life to be able to do more than those of us who have multiple children who are kicking us in the organs inside of our bodies.

[Jill]

There's just one in there.

[Unknown]

There's one.

[Jill]

She's got one outside of her that maybe sometimes kicks you. I don't know.

[Unknown]

No, thankfully. Thankfully, he's not a kicker. But. So, yeah, you are in a unique season of life. And even if maybe you do have kids and you maybe find some time, you don't want to spend that time miserable. So let's look for side hustles we can enjoy that are actually profitable. So I'm not talking about, like, crocheting hats in Florida and selling them at.

[Jill]

The farmer's market, although the Motley fool is talking about that. Not gonna lie.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I'm not for that. I don't like craft as a side hustle personally.

[Jill]

Others might love it and go for it.

[Unknown]

Okay, so you might. Yeah, you might love it, but it's probably not going to be lucrative enough, and it's going to turn your hobby into a stress pot. So let's just think about things that will make us money and we can enjoy them. Maybe it's not our greatest passion, but we enjoy them. And so we've been doing a side hustle series where we are highlighting a lot of different side hustles that are inexpensive or free to start, that do make money, that have a high potential for growing into actual full businesses, but can be done as side hustles and are enjoyable. So definitely check out our side hustle series for that. But do find something that maybe is not your passion but is not miserable. And that's my definition of enjoy.

[Jill]

It's not miserable, but it's okay, right? Wow. Well, I mean, I've got something that is definitely not miserable and is more than okay. And I super enjoy it.

[Unknown]

Oh, my gosh. If I could get paid for just this, it would be the dream, but it's not super profitable.

[Jill]

The bill of the week. That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.

[Unknown]

Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe.

[Jill]

Your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck Bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week.

[Amanda]

Hi, Jen and Jill. My name is Amanda. I'm from the Dallas Fort Worth area, and I want to Tell you about a bill that I think is really fabulous. We started getting these bills in 2021. So in the summer of 2021, we had some to switch utility companies. And my husband said that he had a brilliant idea that was going to save us a lot of money. And I was really excited because I love saving a lot of money. And he said we're going to switch to an energy plan that allows for us to use energy during the night for free. So that's from 8pm to 6am and he said we're going to do a lot of stuff that requires energy during that time. So we're going to charge our electric vehicle, we're going to do our laundry, we're going to run the dishwasher, and we're only going to run the air conditioner at night. It sounds like it might be torture, especially in the Dallas Fort Worth area, but we cool our entire house down to about 65 degrees at night and then we just try really hard to keep the doors closed for the most part if we're going to be home. And we have taken our monthly electric bill down from an average of $112 a month to $60 a month just by using some of our heating elements that draw a lot of electricity and our ac only at night.

[Jill]

Wow.

[Unknown]

So many, so many layers to this. I love seeing like the nighttime like usage thing. I didn't realize you could get it for free at night. That's crazy. Also. Yes, yes. The idea of not running the AC in Dallas scares me.

[Jill]

Your electric company did not see you coming.

[Unknown]

They didn't see you coming.

[Jill]

I didn't anticipate Amanda over here not using her AC during the day, but oh my gosh.

[Unknown]

Cutting it by, what is that, 50 bucks a month.

[Jill]

I'm shocked actually at your electric bill, even pre like doing all of these changes. Yeah, $68 for an electric bill isn't insane.

[Unknown]

That's so low is fantastic. So well done. And usually well done for your husband who when my husband comes to me and says something like that, I have a great idea for a way we can save money. It's usually an immediate no from me.

[Jill]

You just know like some sort of radical idea.

[Unknown]

All of our groceries from the dump dumpster, every single one of them. Uh huh. No, but yours actually had an idea and you got on board and it worked out. So congrats, Amanda.

[Jill]

Well done. If you all listening, have some story about not using your utilities even when you really, really are quite hot.

[Unknown]

Night laundry.

[Jill]

You're doing night laundry you're doing night dishes.

[Unknown]

Oh my gosh. If you're doing night laundry, give us a call like on the Nightline. It's the same line.

[Jill]

It's still the same line, but you can call it Nightline. Oh, you know the drill. Frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill leave us your nighttime or.

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[Unknown]

You guys know I'm always up for a good MVP story, and one of the best is the story of Wasabi Technologies Wasabi is purpose built to free businesses from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys. Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company, becoming the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage, Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware. Wasabi's taken the lead in driving innovation in data storage, eliminating overhead where it matters to deliver you results you can count on and won't break the bank. In fact, Wasabi is up to 80% less than those other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi Another championship story. Check them out for [e-mail] hey, it's.

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[Jill]

Points.

[Unknown]

Points can be redeemed for future discounts on gas or groceries. Offer ends July 15. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Jill]

And now it's time for Lightning round.

[Unknown]

Pew. All right, today's lightning Round question. How did you overcome the overwhelm of having more debt than you earn in a year?

[Jill]

Jill I overcame it by paying it off.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jill]

I mean, honestly, that is the ultimate overcome and it does feel really amazing. But many of you know that I had about no okay, it was 36,000 of student loan debt. It was about $56,000 of debt that took us seven years to pay off. So that was a decent amount of and it had to do with not making that much income in a year, even household income. And so it really was doing this thing for the long haul, which took a lot of intentionality in taking hold of my thoughts, not letting them run wild. There is a concept within mental health therapy of compartmentalizing various things, various things that might be stressful or anxiety producing or overwhelming and giving ourselves space to think about it, but then also identifying when, okay, that's enough time and space that I've given my thoughts to and I'm going to even imagine Visualize putting that topic in a box and putting it on the bookshelf. It's still there. I can revisit it whenever I want. I can take it out, look at it, open up the box. But then it's going to go back on the shelf. It's not going to remain open. All the contents of it sprawl everywhere, impacting and taking up space in other aspects of my life. I think that was really helpful, and we did talk about this in the articles, but it was really helpful for me to know that I had a plan. Having looked at it, knowing what the debt is, how am I going to attack it? How long do I think that's going to take? How much money can I put towards it? Monthly committing to myself that if I do earn extra income, I'm going to put this much more percentage towards it. So there was active effort happening. I was thinking about it quite a bit, but I think over those seven years, I did get better and better at taking hold of those thoughts and when they would be intrusive, reminding myself, I have a plan for that. And the plan is going pretty decent. This will be gone eventually. Okay, thoughts in a box on a shelf. I'm moving on.

[Unknown]

That's great. I love that.

[Jill]

How about for you, Jen?

[Unknown]

For me, it was really having the partnership of my husband. And I know that we don't want to say that a lot because we don't want to isolate our single listeners, but I think there are a lot of different tools you can use as a single person. But I think if you are married or partnered, you almost have no excuse. If you have a partner on board, like, there's just no excuse. Like, the teamwork aspect of this is invaluable and you should take advantage of it.

[Jill]

It goes both ways. I think sometimes you've got the not getting on board, and that's a challenge of, you know, the couples. But when you are both on board, then it's a benefit to be able to work together.

[Unknown]

And I wasn't on board and Travis really helped me get on board. And one of the reasons I wasn't on board was because of how big the debt was. I put it off for years and years because I had $50,000 of debt and I was making probably about 40 grand a year. And so I just put it off. And I said, when I get a second income, then I'll pay it off. And then I was about to get that and I was like, no, actually, I want to live life now. I've just been Broke for so long and so I wasn't gonna do it.

[Jill]

Scope creep. Not lifestyle creep. Scope creep.

[Unknown]

Good try. So I was the partner that didn't want to get on board. And it really took Travis reminding me of the things that were going to be possible if I did get on board, Making it about me and the things I wanted to do and accomplish and how much easier it would be if we just did this one thing. How much easier everything else I wanted would be. So he really made it about me and I love me. So that really got me on board.

[Jill]

And so tip, tip. For anyone married to someone who loves themselves, make it about them.

[Unknown]

So it was that that really helped. It was that support and encouragement and knowing I would have somebody on my team when things got hard and that that I did. He followed through and was always there. That was really what helped me overcome the overwhelm of seeing that number.

[Jill]

Teamwork makes the dream work. So we were wrapping up the lightning round with the things that helped us to overcome the overwhelm, which. Which, yeah, is so interesting to. Even still, when we recorded it, we were both debt free, but now we're even further away from it and just that reminder of what it takes, the grind that it can feel to be in that place, but yet to know that you're not alone, to know that there are resources out there, to know that it can take time. I mean, I know you share a lot of times, Jen, about how you did it in two years. In many ways, that felt like way too fast. And for Erica and I, we did it in seven and that often felt so laboriously slow. I just wanted to be done with it, but it's what my circumstances could afford me. So, yeah, everyone's story is going to be different, but we do need to find what works for us to kind of keep going, stay on track. Not without breaks, but yeah, to know that it is possible, but it might be a long journey.

[Jen]

Yeah. I think the important takeaway that I want to continue to leave people with is that where you are now is not where you have to be in the future. I think we confine ourselves to our current status, thinking I make $60,000 a year and I'm capped out. That is where I am capped out at. But it is absolutely not true. It may be a cap for a certain job, maybe a cap for a certain location, and we may not want to be at a different job or a different location, but there's always creativity that can happen to expand our opportunities and thinking that there's not is what limits us, but opening up and trying things, maybe not liking them, maybe failing, but trying things to earn more and pay off debt faster is always worth it. It's always worth it.

[Jill]

Yeah. And what can happen on the other side of debt freedom is really, really amazing, you know, then you can find yourself in a place where you don't have to focus on earning more. If that's not what you want, then you could find yourself in a rewarding, potentially lesser paying job. Those are the types of decisions we can make when we don't have things like this weighing us down. So thank you all so much for being here, for listening, for reading our book Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke. We we wrote that book. You can get [e-mail] and here's a review to help you understand what that's about from sciopandams 5 stars I am so grateful that this book found me in this particular season of life as someone interested personal finance. I've consumed an inordinate amount of personal finance content. I've watched my personal finance knowledge and needs evolve. And buy what you love without going broke meets me exactly where I am. Better yet, it provides actionable insight to help me chart where I'd like to go. Never punitive, but instead always curious. Jen and Jill's approach to spending is refreshing and empowering. It provides a loving path to identifying what we truly value you and unpacking the ways our spending may or may not be aligned in a world with so much noise, be it influencers promoting over consumption or personal finance educators praising deprivation. Yes, say it. Jen and Jill introduce a radical middle that allows readers to tune into what really matters. What a beautiful review.

[Jen]

Oh my God.

[Jill]

You get it.

[Unknown]

This is so true.

[Jen]

Finding a radical middle between the over consumption of advertising, social media, and the extremism of perfect personal finance is the sweet spot. And everybody's radical middle is different. And I'm just so I'm so pleased to know that you got that. Thank you. So please if you enjoyed the book, we would love to see your review on Amazon. Even if you didn't buy it from Amazon, you can still leave a review there. And Please subscribe on YouTube if you haven't already. It's so helpful. And leave a comment with what you think of the videos on any video. Doesn't have to be relevant to that video, just the most recent video. It's so helpful.

[Jill]

See you next time. Bye.

[Unknown]

Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Seuss.

[Jill]

Chen on our YouTube channel. Do you have a favorite video yet?

[Jen]

I don't know. We are still trying things out. Right. If you're a longtime listener, you've noticed some differences. We're in a season of playing around. I think creators that don't play get stale and quit. And we are both so passionate about this topic. And, well, you know, everything we wrote the book on.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Jen]

We're still very passionate about that. And we want to be doing this for a long time, and we want to be doing it in ways that still feel fresh and are meeting new audiences. So we're playing around right now, and I don't know if I have a favorite yet. I don't know if we found our sweet spot. That's another reason we would love to see your comments on YouTube because we'd also love to know, like, what you're.

[Jill]

Feeling, what you like, what you'd want more of. Yeah.

[Jen]

Yeah. So I don't think I have a favorite. I am loving finding, like, the Memorial Day episode we did when we found the videos from social media, stitched those together and did a, like, a commentary on it, kind of gave the examples. Social media is our biggest barrier when it comes to, like, reining in our spending because it's always telling us to spend more. And I think we will always need a reminder that this is preying on your insecurity. This is preying on your goals. This is what it's trying to get you to spend money on by doing this.

[Jill]

Oh. I mean, I gotta say, I am loving the spending interventions. I'm not gonna say. Yeah. I mean, I think that we've got more to learn with video. We are clearly podcasting experts and we know how to do that. But video, we still feel a little bit out of our element. So it's still us. And I think that that's fun to be able to see our reactions real time. And I hope that our videos just get better and better. But as far as content goes, I am really loving the spending interventions and I really want people to love them, too. It's okay if they don't and they're just like, nah, pivot. Okay, fine. But I still want people to, like, see it because similar to, you know, we just did this rerun on Paying Down Debt, that was a fairly successful series that we did a couple of years ago on YouTube. Was the debt free stories? We did 10 episodes. Not super high video quality, but the content was really good and helpful for people. And I think anytime we can share stories of other people, help ourselves and others see our experiences in the stories of other people. It can give us ideas and perspectives that we may not have come to on our own. And so where you and I stop, I think that's where I've loved our interviews. It's where I love our interviews with experts as well as with real people. Being able to dig into people's 90 day transaction inventories. Helping individuals spend better can help the viewer understand what they could be doing where they're like, oh yeah, I do that too. That makes sense to me. These are the things that I'm personally really loving. But yeah, we'll see what our audience is enjoying.

[Jen]

I do love doing that, so I hope that we can do more in the future. I hope people like it.

[Jill]

We'll see. Go to YouTube. Subscribe Tell us what you hey, it's.

[Unknown]

Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and safeway now through July 15th. Stock up on all your favorite personal care brands and earn four times points to use on later purchases for discounts on groceries or gas. Shop in store or online for items like Pantene Shampoo, Old Spice, Total Body Deodorant, Tampax Pearl Venus Razors, Head and Shoulder Shampoo, Olay Body Wash and Pantene conditioner and earn 4 times points. Hurry before these deals are gone. Offer ends July 15th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

Get in the Zone AutoZone John always listens to his truck, so when his.

[Jill]

Brakes start talking he goes to autozone, where a helpful autozoner gets him the right parts.

[Unknown]

If John has time to put them in, he borrows a kit with loan.

[Ryan Reynolds]

A tool and if he doesn't, he.

[Jill]

Gets a free shop referral.

[Unknown]

No hassles, just help.

[Jill]

Everything you need. Nothing you don't. Get in the zone Auto Zone deposit.

[Unknown]

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[Jill]

For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal, they include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent we help plan your financial plan picture with the bigger picture in mind because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us at thrivent. Com. This is an iHeart podcast.