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- [00:00]
Dr. Laurie Santos
This is Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab. Many people have questions about how to improve levels of happiness. Living a healthy lifestyle is one sure way of increasing happiness, and a good place to start is with your oral health. Just a few small changes to your oral care routine, such as changing your toothpaste to Colgate Total, can lead to beneficial changes in your oral health.
- [00:21]
Jen
Colgate Total helps stop oral health problems.
- [00:24]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Like gingivitis and cavities before they start, because preventing oral health problems is a lot easier than treating them. Be dentist ready and get colgate total@shop.colgate.com.
- [00:35]
Jill
Total the holidays are here at the Home Depot, so let's get to decorating. Find your perfect tree in our huge assortment of shapes, sizes and styles. Like the easy to assemble Jackson Noble fir with pre lit branches perfect for styling with all your favorite ornaments or the flocked Starry Light Frasier fir with over 1900 pre lit memory wire branches that keep their shape so it's ready right out of the box. Find the perfect tree now at the Home Depot and enjoy free delivery on most holiday decor subject to availability. See homedepot.com delivery for details. It's better over here now. AT T Mobile get four 5G phones on us and four lines for 25 a line per month when you switch with eligible trade ins. All on America's largest 5G network. Minimum of 4 lines for 25 per line per month with auto pay discount using debit or bank account. $5 more per line without autopay plus taxes and fees and $10 device connection charge phones via 24 monthly bill credits for well qualified customers. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on a required finance agreement due bill credits end if you pay off devices early. CT mobile.com hey, it's Alicia. When people tell me, wow, you have such beautiful skin, for a second I say, who are you talking to? Because I never did. Key Soul Care is a holistic beauty and skincare line I created working with a leading dermatologist. I'm so proud of these product offerings because they're all about caring for the whole self inside and out. Nourish your skin. Nurture your soul. Try clinically proven Skincare from Alicia Keys with 25% off your first purchase at keyssoulcare.com using code GLOWONAIR.
- [02:07]
Jen
Where'd you get those shoes? Easy? They're from dsw because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour. The boots that turn grocery aisles into runways and all the styles that show off the many sides of you, from daydreamer to multitasking and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or dsw.com Episode 462 is Episode 226 Willpower and Self Control in Spending welcome to the Frugal Friends.
- [02:50]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live a richer life. Here are your hosts, Jen and Jen Jill.
- [03:04]
Jen
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen.
- [03:07]
Dr. Laurie Santos
My name is Jill.
- [03:08]
Jen
And today we are talking about two things that are peripheral to our spending, but many experts will say that they are central and that's willpower and self control.
- [03:24]
Dr. Laurie Santos
It's a good one and you all really enjoyed it the first time that we put it out, which is typically why we choose to replay. And of course, as we do, we love looking at the radical middle of kind of what is the role that it plays. But also, are there ways that this is maybe a little overemphasized? And how can we kind of implement willpower and self control, but also how can we understand where grace and humanity needs to come in?
- [03:51]
Jen
Yeah, I think what we're used to hearing is that you need to strengthen your willpower and self control in order to spend well. And what we think is that you need to be incentivized internally to choose the right spending decisions, which is what we define willpower and self control to be. So you cannot white knuckle your way like hold on tight and just, you know, ride the wave to success in making the right spending decisions. There has to be internal motivators in there. And so that's kind of how we are repositioning the conversation.
- [04:34]
Dr. Laurie Santos
But first, this episode is brought to you by the Back Row. It's the coolest spot in the classroom on the bus, you know it. It's, it's the seat that says we don't care. And we love a bumpy ride that allows us to harass, I mean wave at all the cars behind us. If you too love the back row and you want to sit there with us because you know, we are the cool kids in the backseat. Join the street team. It's for all you cool cats who want to tell your friends about our book, buy what you love without going broke. So truly, if you are a real fan of our podcast, of what we're doing, this one is for you. It only requires you to leave us an honest review of the book the day it publishes. So January 7th. So if you're a cool cat that has five minutes of time on January 7th, please help us. So this means you will get an advanced copy of the book so that you can read it and leave us an honest review on that day and other goodies. Because, you know, all the kids in the backseat of the bus always had the best goodies. Jawbreakers. Am I right? Oh, they were the best. They were so good.
- [05:49]
Jen
You and I rode different buses, Jill.
- [05:51]
Dr. Laurie Santos
We all had jawbreakers. Anyways, applications to be on the Street Team are due by December 2nd at 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time, and Street Team members will be notified via email on December 9th. Where do they get those applications?
- [06:09]
Jen
In the friend letter. So we started on the 18th or the 17th, whatever that Monday was. That application is in Monday, Wednesday and Fridays email. So look back in the friend letter and it's a, it's a four, five question application, which, you know, half of those questions are, what's your name? And email. And we just want, we want to give you goodies. There's also going to be cash prizes like drawings the week of January 7th. So we want to interact with you, we want to thank you, and we just want to give you a way that you can help us for free. It is not mandatory that you have pre ordered the book book, but it is a question. And so depending on how many applications we get, we will give priority to our listeners who have pre ordered the book.
- [07:04]
Dr. Laurie Santos
So join the Street Team, guys. And frugal friends podcast.com if you are not on the friend letter.
- [07:09]
Jen
Yes. All right, so this episode is a rerun, but we also have a few other older episodes that are similar. Episode 441, how to Thrive without a Budget. We talk about some of these psychological ways to spend better that are incentivized from within and not from external. Kind of like motivators. Episode 440, how contentment leads to better spending with Shannon Abels. And then episode 376, how to stick with your big financial goals. And these are all very behavioral psychology packed episodes.
- [07:51]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah, let's get into it.
- [07:56]
Jen
So let's get into how to save smarter, not harder with our first article, which is from the American Psychological association, and it's called Willpower Finances and spending. What'd you think of this one, Jill?
- [08:13]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Oh, I love it. Anytime we can blend mental health with financial understanding is a beautiful blend for me. And APA brings back so many great memories for me from my College days. APA has their own versions of ways you need to write research papers and cite articles. So, you know, this is there's some good and bad throwback here, but they are a great organization and finding all sorts of articles on a variety of topics from them is fantastic. But I love how they talk about willpower specifically, and I think it's similar to what we've discussed many times on this podcast is decision fatigue. I think decision fatigue is connected to our willpower, which is just our capacity to take in and respond to the various stimuli that are happening in our environment, whether emotional, mental, relational, spiritual, physical, you name it. The ability to maintain our values, the things that are important to us, what we say we want to do. We do have capacity when it comes to willpower, and that's one of the things that they highlight most. And if we can understand this concept, it can be really helpful for us in sticking to our financial plan in saving smarter, not harder, in setting up some things that are going to be helpful for us long term. And they describe willpower kind of like a muscle that can certainly be exercised and stretched and built and grown, but it can also become exhausted as well. And sometimes as we overexert our willpower or we expect too much of our decision making abilities back to back to back to back, we can get worn down. I think a lot of people can commiserate with this and can understand of all right, I reached my limit with whatever it is because I think our willpower isn't just connected to one aspect of who we are. Could exhaust willpower in parenting and then it translate over to not making the best financial decisions because we've already had to make a ton of other decisions and our willpower is worn down. So like willpower across the board and then how does that impact various other aspects? So I think there's not like some magic thing that we can do with this, but recognizing that it's there and setting ourselves up for as much success in the areas that we want to see success in is going to be great. So that's, that's a little bit of my summary and personal take on how they're describing willpower. But how did, how did this strike you? Jen?
- [10:57]
Jen
I very much of the same. I loved this one study that they cited in here and I'll just read it from the article. People who are constantly faced with tough financial decisions, such as those who are less financially stable, most readily deplete their willpower. So one study suggested that shoppers with less money who often use more willpower than richer shoppers because they face more freedom. Frequent and difficult spending decisions are less likely to resist consuming food and drink while shopping. Therefore, it appears that having to devote willpower to difficult spending decisions can deplete willpower in other areas. And so we see this a lot with people who are struggling financially living around the poverty line. And it's hard. Every spending decision you make is a tough decision. Whereas if you are are more financially stable, the same decisions are inconveniences at worst. So you do end up spending more the less you have. That's a phenomenon that you often don't understand why you're doing it. It's like, if I have so little money, why do I always spend it? Well, this is very likely the case is that your willpower is being depleted earlier and more rapidly than somebody who is more financial secure.
- [12:26]
Dr. Laurie Santos
And that's not to say that we need to remain stuck in that place. It's important to acknowledge that there just might be more difficulties and barriers for someone where there are more difficult decisions to be made. It is more depleting. But recognizing that then can help empower us to be able to respond rather than to become victim to that unknowingly. Yeah, like you're saying Jen, like why is this happening to me? And so, so there are things that can be done and I appreciate some of the lists that this article gave to us that there are ways that we can respond and recognize our capacity with willpower and the way that we can care for ourselves. Well here. And one of those ways as it relates to finances is to space out financial decisions wherever possible. And I know, Jen, you talk about this all the time focusing on one thing. This, this article supports that idea. Make one decision at a time. But not only that, if you are able to space them out, not back to back to back to back. I'm making financial decision after tough financial decision after tough financial decision. I think there's going to be some creativity and problem solving and individualization that needs to happen in light of this tip. It's not going to look the same for every person, but whatever you can do, some of that might be automation, some of that might be planning ahead head. I don't know what it will be for each one of us, but whatever we can implement so that our financial decisions can be spaced out and we can approach them one at a time to avoid some of that depletion of willpower.
- [14:15]
Jen
Yeah, and this does take some putting on the calendar because everybody has these unpredictably busy Seasons, but there are a lot of predictable seasons where we make a lot of decisions. So around the holidays, like November, December is not the time to be making big financial decisions. Even though everybody wants to do that in December to prepare for January. And that's why most New Year's resolutions only last three weeks. So end of the school year, beginning of the school year, if you have children. So just looking at your calendar and what areas you can predict will be busier and then schedule time in the not as busy seasons to reevaluate, reevaluate your finances, reevaluate your strategy, reevaluate that one page financial plan because that's when you're going to make the best decisions. Because sometimes that comes with tough decisions, tough conversations. There's usually whenever you reevaluate, there's some kind of tough conversation that comes up either with yourself or with your partner or with your family. So this is the time to put that toughness on your plate, not when you have a bunch of other things going on.
- [15:36]
Dr. Laurie Santos
I so appreciate what you're highlighting here, Jen. To not make our big important financial decisions during really stressful times of life, we're usually not going to make the best decision. It's usually going to be rushed or have of crazy levels of anxiety or urgency to them that are not necessary. And so even paying attention to what time of day do you think best at if for you? Is it the morning, is it the early evening, is it late at night? For most people it's going to be the morning. Usually you're going to make your best, least stressed decisions in the morning. For females, it's even worth considering time of the month. This has been an incredible tool that I've been able to extend to clients where we just don't think about it. Many of us have been adults for ages, but what is, what, what is the cycle like and recognizing when you're at your best for making large decisions. So there, there's a lot of things that we want to take into consideration, but certainly not doing this when we're super stressed.
- [16:47]
Jen
Yeah, so that is for big decisions, but what about tiny decisions, the day to day decisions? So their next recommendation is to your spending and I would say do this even before you start a budget. Don't everybody says jump on the budget immediately. The budget is the lifesaver. And yeah, budgets make a big difference in how you reach your financial plan. But if that's a big barrier, if you've budgeted before and it's been hard and you're prone to strict budgeting. Stop. Try something new. Track your spending for 30 days. Days, literally every transaction, every day in a notebook, in one of these tiny little, you know, two by four or four by six inch notebooks that you can carry with you wherever. Track your spending every, every penny, every day. And that will tell you a lot about your spending that your budget won't. Because your budget tells you what you could be doing. Tracking your spending tells you what you are doing. And it's not meant to guilt you. It's just meant to wake you up. And sometimes the wake up call can be more powerful than the guilt that a budget can give you.
- [18:02]
Dr. Laurie Santos
The next tip is to save automatically. You have heard us talk about this over and over again and we're just not going to stop talking about it when we can eliminate some of these even smaller decisions. All the better for our willpower. Put it on auto in the background. Let it be running like the fridge all the time. Keeping our stuff cold. Set up a bank or an investment account that withdraws money automatically from your paycheck. There are plenty. Pretty much every investment account out there will allow you to invest automatically. Pretty much every bank account out there will allow you to save automatically. So doing this is going to be super helpful to not have to add to that. Should I save this month? Oh, I got to remember to do this. I have to go into my computer and move money around. Just have it happen automatically. Even if it's a small amount, then we don't even have to think about it and we're already making a good decision for ourselves that we only had to make that decision one time.
- [19:07]
Jen
I think the biggest thing is for renters is the rent payment. Not every landlord does automatic rent payments. So if you are one of those, check in to see if your landlord wants to switch to something called Stessa S T E S S A. It's a software where your landlord can accept rent payments from you and you can set up automatic payments. So that's one less thing you have to think of every month. But it's a big thing. So that I think is the big everything can be automated now there's everything and that's really the biggest thing I think that's that I've seen people not automate. But that's one option. The next on this list is my absolute favorite. It's my favorite one on the list. It's avoid temptation. It's just stay away. Put a physical barrier between you and the store. The route. If you are passing by the Store on a route, take a different route, take the apps off your phone. Like we go onto podcasts and they're like, what's your best tip for saving money? And we're like, it's not sexy, it's avoiding. It's staying away from the places that you tend to spend impulsively or out of character or whatever.
- [20:33]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah, just don't go. But replace it with something. Because anytime we take something away and we don't replace it with something new, we are going to feel super deprived. And that's not the goal of this. We want to live full, enjoyable lives as much as possible. But if this, this isn't serving you, if you're spending money, it's not actually beneficial for you or your wallet, then a change needs to be made. But that doesn't mean just a removal, only a subtraction. Sometimes it can mean the addition of other things, hanging out with people, doing free things, exploring in ways that aren't going to cost money. There's, there's always something else that can be done that is going to be more beneficial for you. So finding those things, picking up even a new activity that is low cost or no cost can be a really fun part of this process. And then last that they list on here is ask for support. And we also love this one as well. If you haven't heard us already or picked up on this reality. We love community. And we think that community is one of the most important components to longevity on this journey of whatever your goals are, financially and just in life. We need other people. We need reciprocity in relationships to know and be known and where you can find people who are going to value you, value your goals, be supportive of them. And we know not everybody is. Sometimes you need to keep them in your life. Sometimes you can create some separation there, but definitely adding in some of those people who are going to be supportive to you, who are going to be the ones that you can call up and are so down to do something free instead of spending money or something that's expensive. The people who are going to ask you, hey, how's this going? Or how can I help? And that can be found in person, hopefully and online. I know it's something that we've created with the, with frugal friends and with our membership. So that, that's fantastic. And we have seen people grow leaps and bounds, myself included. I have made so many massive strides in my finances that I, I know for sure I would not have done without others around me even pointing me towards Things that I don't know. I just don't know what I don't know. And that comes from community and support. And of course, the article gives their plug for psychologists. You know, it's, it's apa, it's the American Psychology Association. So they're going to talk about their people and how you should see a psychologist, which that's fine. I definitely support mental health and pursuing growth in our mental health. If you think that a counselor, a therapist would be helpful for you. Absolutely. Particularly when it comes to decision making and some of our behaviors. There's, there's always root causes to it. And a psychologist, a counselor, a therapist can help you dig into that. So if you've tried all of these different things and you're listening to the podcast and you're reading the books and you keep coming up against barriers, there could be some mindset shifts that a counselor would be able to help you with. Whether it's a task centered approach or cognitive behavioral therapy or just general talk therapy, it can be helpful. Not everybody needs it all the time. And the hope with counseling is that we utilize that as a resource as we need, but it is not meant to be a lifetime experience where you are dependent on a relationship with a counselor. So that's my little plug. Absolutely, yes. Use it if you need it, but don't. Yeah, don't. Don't feel like this has to be a part of your life long term either.
- [24:22]
Jen
Yeah. Thank you for that, Jill. This is, I mean, the willpower and the decision fatigue aspects of daily life are really why we, we invest so much time on the show to everything we talk about kind of has this, this theme in the background for us because it's something that is not talked about as widely. The tips are a lot of make extra money, invest, eat beans and rice. But like, not a lot. The willpower and maybe the root causes for why we feel the way we do about our finances, which also inhibits some of our willpower and contributes to decision fatigue. And I think the two things that we focus most on to preserve willpower are building habits and then also simplifying because the more physical and mental clutter you have, the worse your spending decisions are. So we in the Frugal Friends Club focus a lot on building healthy habits, breaking limiting habits, and then also internal and external motivators. And then all the things around, how can we make better decisions? But that's only half of the save smarter, not harder way of life.
- [25:49]
Jill
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- [30:09]
Jen
I guess this could be the not harder half, but it's essentially using the 8020 principle to save more with less effort. And so our next article is from Money the Simple Way Big Wins the simple way, the 8020 approach to saving money Jill, how familiar with the 8020 principles are you?
- [30:36]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Very familiar. I think a lot of various sects talk about the Pareto principle, the 80 20. It is something that can be applied to the corporate world, to our personal finances. It's not specific to any one category. It's just this idea that 20% of our efforts often produce 80% of of the outcome, the production, the product, whatever that product may be. And so applying it to personal finance is just a new way of looking at it and then again using it as a tool. I think so much of what we're about to go over in this article, none of it's shocking, but it is, or even brand new. But it is a new way to look at it or a different way to look at it. I think that's what we're doing with this podcast in a lot of ways is what are the different facets, what's going to work for the variety of people who tune in for ourselves and as our situations grow and change, like, we are not static individuals, you and I or our listeners. Like, we're dynamic, we're changing, we're shifting. And so sometimes a mindset that used to work for us isn't working anymore. We need to implement something new. So we're just looking at all the different facets of this really cool diamond and trying to figure out, hey, does this work? Does this work? At the core of it, it's all going to be the being wise stewards of our resources. But what's the best way for our minds to engage in that? And some tangible tips along the way. But that's how this struck me of oh, we can use the Pareto principle for thinking about saving better, spending less.
- [32:21]
Jen
Yeah, I mean, 20% of our episodes will provide you 80% of your results, but we're not going to tell you which 20% of them they are. You're just going to have to listen to a hundred percent. So, but it is, I mean, it's crazy how accurate the rule of thumb is across all industries and everywhere and even like getting down to the nitty gritty, like 80. So 20%. The way that Pareto came up with the 8020 rule is that 20% of landowners owned 80% of the land. And then he broke it down again. Of those 20%, there was 20% of those who owned 80% of that land and then broke it down again and saw that 20% of those owned 80% of that land. So it is something that is normal and it's good and it's okay. And the further we get away from 8020 and closer, maybe to 9010 is when we should get worried. But we're not here to talk about that right now. Let's talk about the 8020 of our spending. So the author finds that there is the vital few of frugality. So he went to a 2019 consumer expenditure survey to get where most Americans have their household spending and found that 32.8% of it's on housing, 17% is on transportation, 13% is on food, 11% is on personal insurance and pensions. And then we get lower as we go down. And he said that you'll notice that the spending doesn't fit exactly into the 8020 rule out of 17 categories, the top three to four should represent about 20% and they represent the top three categories only represent 63% of the total and the top four about 74%. So he says it's not ironclad, it's just general. But that just goes to show focusing on that. You can focus on these top four four and get big results and you don't even have to pay attention to the other ones until you get the top four under control. You can totally forget about your lattes while you're working on lowering your housing. You totally forget about your clothes budget while you're working on your food budget or your transportation. That's how we choose. Choose the one thing to focus on. We start with the biggest and then we just go down. We don't have to work on everything at the same time.
- [35:08]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Permission. I love this quote that they that he mentions in here. If you want big wins, focus on the vital few instead of the trivial many. And that's what you're talking about there. We love to get caught up in the coffee budget, but really what if we got caught up in the housing, transportation, food part of the budget? Where we're going to see the big wins is when we focus on the vital few. And I also appreciate how the author recognized that everyone's top three or four expenditures is not going to be the same. For him it wasn't as a family of five, he said his food budget was actually higher monthly than his mortgage was, which is insane. But it also sounds like they got a great deal on their housing costs. So it is worth doing a what they call Pareto analysis analysis of your own budget, listing out your annual spending. You're going to have the best results. If you're able to look at a full calendar year of spending and list that all out into categories. Certainly if you already use a certain type of app that could help you with this, then the job is a little bit easier for you. And if you're a person like Jen who just likes to write things out like in her planner, then maybe this will be a fun exercise. Exercise, but really dig into what are the top three or four expenditures for you so that you know where you're going to see the biggest impact on the vital few instead of the trivial many. But for most of us, it is going to be housing, transportation and food. And so the article goes into some more just few tips on how could we experience some decreased costs, some savings in each of these big massive categories.
- [37:04]
Jen
Yeah, so we will not dive into these in this episode. These are actually all challenges that we have done or are going to do in the Frugal Friends Club. The most recent one was the House Savings Hunters Challenge where we looked for ways to like, decrease our housing. You know, everything in that category.
- [37:28]
Dr. Laurie Santos
That was fun.
- [37:29]
Jen
That was fun. Yeah. So when they talk about like mortgage or rent, definitely shopping around is the first, you know, thing that they say. We got our. And it's not always like this anymore. I would say that if you haven't, you just listen to our housing market episode, you'll get it. It's harder to shop around, but that means it's more important. Honestly, it just makes it even more important.
- [37:59]
Dr. Laurie Santos
I love the example that they gave in the article. If you are going to shop around for your computer and take time to shop around for a new computer, how much more so should you be shopping around and taking your time with a purchase, like a house or finding an apartment? I know not all of us have the luxury of time on our side, but wherever possible, it will pay off in the long run to feel really good about the decision that we're making and for it to be within our means.
- [38:30]
Jen
Yeah. When we interviewed Mindy Jensen and Scott from Bigger Pockets, they said, don't rush a home purchase. And the author here says the process for him to buy his house took nine months to find the right deal. And it, I mean, I am pretty sure it's for most people going to take around the same time right now. So stick to your guns, wait it out, be patient.
- [38:58]
Dr. Laurie Santos
And as far as transportation goes, you know, considering, can you come go down to one vehicle? Has your employment situation shifted? Are you working from home or are you able to work from home? Or are you able to even look for a job that provides you remote opportunities so that you could go down to one vehicle and be driving less? Are there public transportation alternatives? Are there just ways to think outside the box related to your transportation costs? And then of course, with food, this is a big one. And I would say go back into our archive and look at all of the different episodes on food. But you know what it's gonna be, it's eaten out less. And of course there's so many different tips around how we can do that. One of the things I will highlight, cause this felt a little bit new to me in reading this article was encouraging us to master five to ten recipes that we really enjoy and putting those on rotation and or keeping them in the freezer for some crazy busy weeks or nights. And I know we've talked about freezer meals before. And we've talked about meal planning, but I don't think we've ever talked about it in the sense of what's the food you really enjoy. So you're actually gonna look forward to doing that and you know how to cook it. So not getting so overwhelmed. Like, I have to come up with a new recipe every week to keep variety. Just find five to 10 recipes you really enjoy, master how to cook that, hone in on your cooking skills and put them on rotation with some other simple meals. Maybe the 5 to 10 are a little bit more complicated, but you know you're always going to have those ingredients on hand and you know you're going to enjoy it. I really like that tip. I think that was a new way to kind of look at food.
- [40:46]
Jen
Yeah, that's a great tip is just give yourself a goal for the year to master 10 reps recipes or start with five. Five recipes over the next year that you're gonna just make on repeat, you know, once a week. And then you're making, you know, one recipe every five weeks. So it's not getting too much that you get tired of it, but enough that you're making it so that you remember it and can learn it and can make it their staples and you can make it like the author says, his wife has a dish that she's made so much, she said she can make it in her sleep.
- [41:26]
Dr. Laurie Santos
That's amazing. For me, it's chicken piccata. I love chicken piccata. Cannot get over capers. I love capers.
- [41:35]
Jen
Capers are so good. Yeah, I definitely. It's a. It's a beans and rice with a packet of the. Oh, what's that? It's the. It's a doughbone. Yeah. Maybe it comes in a packet. It's orange. And I throw some, like, frozen veggies in there. And I will recreate Pollo tropical, essentially. And I'll create my own curry mustard.
- [42:00]
Dr. Laurie Santos
That's a whole other thing too. If you're craving takeout. The Internet has a plethora of recipes that can replicate whatever it is that you are craving. So that might even be something to consider. Mastering those recip. What do you normally gravitate towards when you go out to a restaurant? Master that thing for Eric, It's French fries. He loves french fries. And I have actually made some French. Actually, you were here, Jen. I made french fries in my air fryer that he loved that night when we had steak together.
- [42:37]
Jen
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, we didn't get to hear the love. Yeah, because we had to go record.
- [42:42]
Dr. Laurie Santos
But no.
- [42:43]
Jen
Oh, my gosh. Work works.
- [42:46]
Dr. Laurie Santos
They were good fries. You know what else is good?
- [42:49]
Jen
And speaking of work, it's the bill of the week.
- [43:06]
Jill
That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage.
- [43:15]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Maybe your car died and you're happy.
- [43:17]
Jill
To not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills.
- [43:20]
Jen
Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton.
- [43:23]
Jill
This is the Bill of the week.
- [43:26]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Hi, frugal friends. My name is Jen and I discovered you all last year. And I love your podcast and appreciate all of the fun and levity that you bring to finance. I was really lacking that before I found you guys. My bill of the week comes from Christmas Eve.
- [43:46]
Jen
After listening to your podcast with Mrs.
- [43:49]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Frugal Woods, I joined a couple of.
- [43:52]
Jen
My local Buy Nothing groups on Facebook. We don't have a tv and I.
- [43:57]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Thought that it would be so fun.
- [43:59]
Jen
To get one for ourselves kids for Christmas. But I didn't want to spend extra.
- [44:04]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Money, so I put it out there.
- [44:05]
Jen
On the Buy Nothing groups.
- [44:07]
Dr. Laurie Santos
And on Christmas Eve, I got a.
- [44:09]
Jen
Message from someone that they in fact.
- [44:11]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Had a perfectly working free TV for.
- [44:15]
Jen
Me to pick up. So we went and got it, wrapped it up, and put a note on it that it was from Santa, and our kids opened it on Christmas morning and they loved it.
- [44:25]
Dr. Laurie Santos
So that is my bill of the week.
- [44:26]
Jen
Thank you so much for all that you. Oh, my gosh, Jen. First of all, great name. Second of all, nothing. You are a hero. You're a hero to so many.
- [44:44]
Dr. Laurie Santos
That's amazing. I love that lifestyle. But also, I'm so thrilled to hear that you found a local Buy Nothing group and that they were able to provide you with something special, something that you wanted, but it wasn't valuable enough to you to have to spend money on it. And it sounds like your bill of the week is not spending any bills on a gift for your kids. And what a good idea of a way to utilize your Buy Nothing group around Christmas time. I don't know if you sent this in around Christmas time, so sorry, we are so backed up, but we're still celebrating with you.
- [45:21]
Jen
Yeah. Going to two episodes a week is half for you and half for us to get through backlog of bills. We're like, we need to do double the episodes because we're so behind. And that is why keep sending in your bills, because that's why maybe we'll depending on how many you send in, maybe we'll go to more. Who knows?
- [45:41]
Dr. Laurie Santos
That's amazing. And for anyone listening, if you want to join a buy nothing group, look it up. There's so many. Again, reciprocity and community. It's a give and take. You offer things up for free. You were able to receive things for free. Free. It's fantastic. And also if you want to submit your bill of the week, whether it has to do with not spending bills or spending bills or a person named Bill or multiple bills. If you know many, many bills, oh, that'd be so amazing.
- [46:14]
Jen
You're in a bill society for Bill Murray's.
- [46:18]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Yes. Visit frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill, leave us your bill.
- [46:23]
Jill
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Dr. Laurie Santos
Your bank and credit card statements, if.
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Jill
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Dr. Laurie Santos
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Jill
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- [50:25]
Dr. Laurie Santos
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- [50:27]
Jill
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- [50:36]
Dr. Laurie Santos
And now it's time for lightning round.
- [50:44]
Jen
So today's lightning round, which is the 80% of our show, we do 20%.
- [50:52]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Of work but it's 80% value.
- [50:56]
Jen
Yes. No. The bill of the week is the 80% that people tune in for. I have learned. We got him message the other day. I don't know if it was like on on Instagram or in an email, but someone had listened to some of the first few episodes and they were like hey new listener, listening to some of the first episodes. Just want to know if you're still doing the bill of the week. And I was like every single episode. But I couldn't tell. There was no response to that. It was definitely on Instagram. There was no response. And I couldn't tell. Is she asking because she doesn't want to hear this anymore. And she's like, if they say yes, I'm done. Or if she wanted to send in a bill. And so I never got the answer.
- [51:44]
Dr. Laurie Santos
We may never know.
- [51:46]
Jen
We may never know, but I'm going to assume it's because she loved it.
- [51:51]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Right? That's safe to assume.
- [51:53]
Jen
Yeah, that's safe.
- [51:54]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Go the safe route. So, all right, Jen, you go first on this round of vulnerability. What is your best 80, 20 savings tip?
- [52:06]
Jen
Absolutely. So we have always been. So I'm going to choose housing. And I have always been a big proponent for house hacking, which is it's essentially buying. So traditionally, when it first started, it was instead of buying like your dream home for your first. First home, your first home is a duplex or a triplex, and you live in one part and you rent out the other side. And it essentially covers most of your mortgage so that you can just save up your money and then go buy your dream home or another rental property to do the house hack again. Whatever you want. So we didn't know about house hacking when we bought our first house. And by the time we did, it was impossible to get duplexes in St. Pete. There was. Is impossible. So what we did was when we found out about it, we rented out our guest room on Airbnb and it worked fabulously. So people have definitely heard me talk about this. We did it for several years. We were booked out all the time, and it was just our guest room and our guest back bathroom. And we shared the other spaces in the house, except we didn't share my office or our bedroom. And nobody really took us up on the sharing the rest of the house. Pretty much. People who rent a shared room on Airbnb are just there for a place to sleep. They're not there for a place to hang, which was convenient for us. But we got to meet so many cool people. It was the best house hack I think we could have ever done. And it pretty much, much almost covered our mortgage every month that we did it. And now we are kind of house hacking. We bought a large house, and we're going to make part of it a midterm rental, like for snowbirds. And we are renting out the original house that we lived in. And so that once we get the renovation on this midterm rental done, then between that and the other house, the income should cover both mortgages. And so that is my best, my favorite.
- [54:28]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah, it's Excellent. It is requiring a lot of work up front and depending on your situation that could be the case. But once you put in that initial effort, it can get to a point of 20% effort for 80% return.
- [54:46]
Jen
Yeah. I mean the guest room was very effortless and we lived in a, in an area that it was good for like 15 minutes from the beach, 15 minutes from a bunch of different universities. So we lived in a good area for it. But it was very effortless for, for that this one. A lot of effort. Don't recommend it up front. Yeah, but the guest room thing was so easy.
- [55:10]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah. For me, when it, as it relates to 80 20, I think this is what I do with each category. So the biggest expenses. So if we were to look at housing, transportation and food, I would agree that for me, I'm a basic person where those are probably the biggest expenditures for me. And applying the 8020 rule to each of those categories, like breaking it down smaller and smaller. So what is the top amount of money that I'm spending within food, within transportation, and how can, can I decrease that? Like the big wins, the, the vital few rather than the, the small amount. So I'm not cutting out gum, but recently. Oh, Jen, this is actually going to be news to you too.
- [56:02]
Jen
Oo.
- [56:03]
Dr. Laurie Santos
And it may break your heart a little bit. Oh, but it's a good thing we have what we've definitely significantly cut out eating out. And I have found ways to really enjoy eating at home. Sometimes it means doing a random meal kit delivery just to keep me going in my eating at home efforts. But I really enjoyed that, which I never would have thought. It's been a trained muscle. But we also have made a drastic cut in our alcohol consumption. Like we got to a point where we thought every time we go out, like it's fun to be able to get a drink with our meal. And we are realizing that by not doing that, it significantly decreases the amount of money we spend even when we go out. And what's amazing about it is we're not missing it. Like we can replace it with other enjoyable things. I can have like a little piece of chocolate waiting for me when I get home. And that's like just the treat that I need because it's not even about like getting a drink. It's about having something that feels like a treat. But when I'm getting a treat every single time, then it takes away the enjoyment of it. I never, growing up, I never, never got soda or a lemonade or an iced tea. I always did water so I'm like, what happened to us that suddenly we're getting a drink out every time we go out? So really scaling back in that regard has helped us phenomenally with the food, with transportation, we cut back to one vehicle. We've been a one vehicle family now for two years, which is amazing. And that works for us because we work from home sometimes, sometimes it stinks when our car needs to go in for repairs, but that's very minimal and we work around it. In the long run, it's saving us a lot of money. And as far as housing, you've heard all of the housing things that we've done. But one thing I don't think I've ever mentioned on this podcast before is when we were renting, before we did the tiny home, before we had a home that we could make an Airbnb in, when we looked for apartments, we did not have a ton of money. And so one of the ways that we got what we wanted at an inexpensive price was looking at very inexpensive rentals. I know that's really, it's harder to come by, but considering looking at places that you wouldn't normally consider. Like if you're the type of person who would primarily go like apartment complex, consider looking for some smaller apartment situations that might not be as nice and working out a deal of being able to fix it up, do a few minor repairs or painting with the landlord to be able to make it what you like. So that, that was one of the things that we did on multiple occasions was renovating an apartment to be more what we wanted, but maintaining the lower rent. Of course, I recognize that may or may not be available to people or as readily available now, but I don't think I've ever discussed that on this podcast when we were in a rental and not an owning situation. So anything really that's going to be thinking outside the box and looking at these heavy hitter categories is going to make the biggest dent in our finances.
- [59:17]
Jen
Finances, yeah, I think that's a great. If you are handy, even like partially because a landlord isn't going to want you to do major renovations, but if you can paint, if you can replace a few fixtures, very simple things, then you look at the cost of handymen. Look at like do an analysis of what it would cost them to fix up their property and what they can charge extra for rent if they do fix up their property and create a deal or propose a deal where it's like, over the next year, I will fix this up to this. You'll give Me this discount on rent. So they save or you know, maybe they don't save as much than as hand doing handyman but they know the work is going get done and they don't have to disrupt any tenants or give any, you know, additional discounts or have the thing vacant for a month while they do the renovations. They know you will do it and then you're like, you will give me this price for one year or two years and then I'll move out and you can jack up.
- [60:33]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Some of the benefit is what they'll be able to make off of it once you leave. Our landlord was able to charge $400 a month extra after we left because of the work that we did on the place. So yeah, it's there. It can be a win. Win.
- [60:49]
Jen
Yeah. Make it. If you tell them that they are going to make money off of giving you a discount because you can tell them the things that you can do, et cetera, then yeah, it's a great strategy. I, I love, love talking about stuff like this. I, I really do think that the approach people take to spending is very externally pepper. It's, it's all like external rewards. And what's the opposite of a reward? Punishments. Yeah. And I obviously, I don't even know the word for punishments.
- [61:32]
Dr. Laurie Santos
That's how much I avoid it.
- [61:33]
Jen
I avoid them. Yeah. But I love to talk about kind.
- [61:39]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Of a more holistic approach and ways that we can kind of just lean into some of these more cognitive biases that do exist and allow ourselves to simplify and be efficient rather than needing to, as you said earlier, just white knuckle everything. So we hope that you also gained some helpful tips throughout here on how to just be a little bit more patient with yourself if you're finding yourself unable to white knuckle it. And yeah, we're just so grateful that you're here.
- [62:16]
Jen
And this is kind of one of the first places we talked about the 8020 rule for saving and why we like to focus on the big, the housing, transportation, food versus the smart smaller things. I was actually watching a video this morning. I was looking at a few speaker reels since I'm going to be doing some speaking next year. And if you work for a company that wants a speaker like us, then.
- [62:46]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Reach out to me.
- [62:48]
Jen
But I was watching one and this woman was like looking at the ways you could save money and she just automatically crossed out housing and transportation. She's like, these are fixed, fixed expenses. And I'm like, actually no, nobody. It's not like somebody Assigns you the house and the car that you're supposed to drive and you just have to take it.
- [63:11]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah.
- [63:12]
Jen
That is a decision that you make. Not as frequently, obviously, not month to month. And she, she said focus on the blts, the bites, licks and tastes.
- [63:24]
Dr. Laurie Santos
So just food, everything food.
- [63:26]
Jen
She said just a little like death by a thousand cuts theory, you know, like focus on the bites, licks. And apparently it's a Weight Watchers thing. I don't know. She I.
- [63:36]
Dr. Laurie Santos
But that's all food. That's everything that's going into your mouth.
- [63:39]
Jen
It was a metaphor. Like small things, not big things. Yeah, but I was like, this is so, so overwhelming.
- [63:47]
Dr. Laurie Santos
This is the opposite of what we're saying. Because that is where all of the willpower needs to constantly come in. And we just have that. We're not unlimited capacity.
- [63:57]
Jen
And you don't need to. We're led to believe that we need to have the willpower and self control to fight off all the bites, licks and tastes.
- [64:06]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Tastes. That's what I was like. Tickles. What was it?
- [64:10]
Jen
But when you can make the right decisions on the back end, then you don't need to exhaust yourself as much with all of the willpower that traditional media says that you need, need to have. Or David Goggins or the guy that says that says you should like wake up at 4am and like run a marathon every morning. You don't have to do that.
- [64:33]
Dr. Laurie Santos
You don't have to. So you can, you totally can.
- [64:36]
Jen
Absolutely.
- [64:36]
Dr. Laurie Santos
You can. You can BLT your way through this life, but you can also 8020 your way through.
- [64:42]
Jen
Yeah. Thank you so much for listening. If you agree that you. You're too tired to focus on the BLTs and you need to focus on the 80, the 80%, the 20% of your things that are costing you 80% of your money. Please leave us a rating and review. Kind of like this lovely one from N. Curt. It happens to be five stars. It says inspirational and fun. I have listened to this podcast for years and I feel it's really one of the best personal finance podcasts for normal people, that's in quotes. Who are interested in controlling their finances and growing financially. The personal stories especially are relatable and interesting to listen to, but really I can recommend all the episodes and Kurt, that's so kind.
- [65:28]
Dr. Laurie Santos
I love the consistent references to normal people. I love how down to earth and normal this podcast is and wow, I love being normal. I love that it's in writing.
- [65:40]
Jen
I never. I wasn't in the back of the Bus. I was in the middle of the bus because I am with not the good snacks.
- [65:48]
Dr. Laurie Santos
That's why. You knew there were jawbreakers in the back.
- [65:51]
Jen
I didn't. I don't like jawbreakers.
- [65:53]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Oh, they were so good.
- [65:54]
Jen
I like my teeth. I had braces.
- [65:57]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Well, they weren't. They were like baseballs that you.
- [66:00]
Jen
I know what they are.
- [66:01]
Dr. Laurie Santos
You licked you BLT your mouth raw.
- [66:05]
Jen
I've never been into the BLTs, I guess.
- [66:09]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Well, thanks. Thanks and Kurt. And thank you all for listening. If you are enjoying the show, if you feel like we're making you feel normal, if you think we're normal, please take a minute to leave a rating and review. We love reading them, but more than us just enjoying to read them, it does help other people find our show, know what it's about, consider if they also want to feel normal. And so it helps. It's a way to help us see. And another way to help us is by joining the street team. So again, letter send that in that application. Love to have you.
- [66:42]
Jen
See you next time.
- [66:43]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Bye.
- [66:45]
Jen
Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni. All right, Jill. I just got off a cruise ship. Yeah, you did.
- [67:03]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Yesterday. Tell us about it.
- [67:05]
Jen
Off. Just a little over 24 hours ago. It was a music cruise. And I know some people saw I was posting stories about it on my Instagram at Modern Frugality and it was essentially a ship full of like carbon copies of people. We're all in our 30s and 40s. We are all. We're all into the same music in college, like pop, punk, em, indie stuff. So same music preferences, same ages. I was in an elevator once and a lady looks down, she's like a lot of foot tattoos in this elevator. We all had foot tattoos. Like that was how weirdly similar it was. They were all different. But it was so surreal to be on a ship with just people that you already had like an instant similarity to.
- [68:03]
Dr. Laurie Santos
It's not different. Right? You could probably each open up your Instagrams and like have the same exact feed. You're all on the same algorithm.
- [68:12]
Jen
Yeah, it was so funny. And I just got to relive kind of like my college high school college days where I went to a lot of shows. Now I'm too old to be standing that much. It was so much standing, but it was like it was Hosted by Andrew McMahon, who is into something corporate Jack's man to. In. In the. In the wilderness. And there were a lot of other bands too. Like Augustana was. Was one of my favorite Bands and I got to see him several times. And then Mr. Wives, which I was not into before, but then saw live. And now I am very into Rustin Kelly Cartel. The Academy is just like all my high school college stacked boat for millennials. Mm. Yeah. So that was a fun experience.
- [69:09]
Dr. Laurie Santos
That's cool.
- [69:10]
Jen
And if you're a big music fan, don't sleep on these. Yeah, it was a cruise, but like, not for people that don't like cruises or have never been on a cruise. A lot of people were there for the first time. It was a very unique cruise. I love cruises. And it was a very distinct, like, it wasn't the regular cruise experience.
- [69:30]
Dr. Laurie Santos
I just learned, like within the last year that this is something. Something that I don't know if it's becoming more regular or for what. It has been a thing for a while and I'm just learning about it. But yeah, these kind of concert cruises where you are on the boat with these bands and getting concerts from your favorite artists every single night in a more intimate setting.
- [69:53]
Jen
Yeah.
- [69:54]
Dr. Laurie Santos
All inclusive setting. It's very fun.
- [69:56]
Jen
Here's the thing. So I had just found out about these when I booked it with my sister. I went with sister in law. And there are other types of cruises. When we. When we got on, they were breaking down from the Hallmark holiday movie cruise.
- [70:12]
Dr. Laurie Santos
No, no, no.
- [70:14]
Jen
And then that. That cruise sold out so fast that they booked another one right after the Andrew McMahon one. So when we were getting off, people were coming in to go for round two of the Hallmark holiday moving. There was a girl that she went on the cruises back to back, and we talked to her and they had a tree lighting every night. They had stars from the Hallmark holiday movies because they all do the same. Like, it's. I was just watching Lacey Chabert on Jimmy Fallon and she just did her 41st holiday movie. She has been in 41 holiday movies.
- [70:56]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Too many. You want to know how many too many that is?
- [70:59]
Jen
41.
- [71:03]
Dr. Laurie Santos
No, I'm gonna give her the one. She could pick any of them, but.
- [71:07]
Jen
So that was the one. And there's also a Wrestling 1. The WWE Cruise.
- [71:11]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Okay.
- [71:12]
Jen
Yeah.
- [71:12]
Dr. Laurie Santos
I'm on the edge of my. This is wild. And I'm super into it. But it's also sparking a beautiful, brilliant idea. A Frugal Friends podcast group. Now, listen, it doesn't have to just be us. It can be all of our other favorite people in the personal finance space and. And we're all on a cruise together talking about being resourceful and frugal. It's probably the opposite of what cruises are.
- [71:40]
Jen
I love them as a way to vacation frugally.
- [71:44]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Actually, she's just shaking her head. She doesn't like this idea.
- [71:46]
Jen
I don't.
- [71:47]
Dr. Laurie Santos
The wind is out of my sails.
- [71:48]
Jen
But I do love later. So. Okay, maybe.
- [71:54]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Listen, I'm just spitballing. We need to make money. I'd love to keep doing this.
- [71:58]
Jen
Yeah, you keep going. You keep going with the ideas, Jill. Keep going.
- [72:04]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Thanks, Jen.
- [72:06]
Jen
Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families with With Greenlight, you can send money to kids instantly, set up chores automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight today@Greenlight.com iheart hey, come on in. Small Business Saturday is right around the corner, and so was that shop you've been meaning to check out on November 30th. Support your local community by shopping small on Small Business Saturday, founded by American Express. Pick up a new outfit, a handmade.
- [72:53]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Gift, some vintage vinyl, maybe even some local tea. Thanks so much. See you soon.
- [73:00]
Jen
Shop on small business Saturday, November 30th.
- [73:03]
Dr. Laurie Santos
That's the powerful packing of American Express. Wow. What is this place? Welcome to Cloud 9. How exactly did I get here? A Toyota Crown driver and only Crown.
- [73:16]
Jill
Drivers ever reach this level of pure bliss.
- [73:19]
Dr. Laurie Santos
The refined but elegant design makes you.
- [73:21]
Jill
Sit up a little straighter.
- [73:23]
Jen
It gives you a rush of confidence.
- [73:24]
Dr. Laurie Santos
As soon as you're behind the wheel and a feeling of all eyes on you. That's how the Crown transports you here. It's pretty awesome, right?
- [73:32]
Jill
The captivating Toyota Crown Family Toyota let's go places.
- [73:36]
Dr. Laurie Santos
There's joy to be had in finding the perfect gifts for the ones You Love, and Saks.com's holiday gift guide can make it easy. Whether it's surprising your hard to shop for sister with a Chloe bracelet bag or gifting your partner a memorable scent from Gucci that matches their personality, Saks.com's handpicked guide can help take the stress out of the holidays, like adding instant cheer to your home with bright decor or giving yourself some comfort by bundling up in a scarf coat from Tatem. Find gifts guaranteed to bring joy to everyone this season@saks.com at Amica Insurance, we.
- [74:09]
Jill
Know it's more than just a car. It's the the two door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust Amica Auto Insurance Amica Empathy is our best policy.