Full Measure After Hours: Back to Work or Out of Work – Detailed Summary

Release Date: March 27, 2025
Host: Cheryl Atkison
Guest: Randy Irwin, President of the National Federation of Federal Employees
Topic: Examination of the Trump administration's pledge to fire federal workers who refuse to return to office.

1. Introduction to the Issue

Cheryl Atkison opens the episode by addressing the controversial decision by the Trump administration to mandate federal employees to return to their offices, with threats of termination for non-compliance. She highlights the scale of the federal workforce, noting that there are approximately 2.3 million civilian federal employees, a number comparable to the population of New Mexico. Atkison sets the stage for the discussion, emphasizing that this unprecedented move has left federal workers uncertain about their job security and the future of federal services.

Cheryl Atkison [00:53]: "When President Trump took office for a second term, there were somewhere in the neighborhood of about 2.3 million civilian federal employees. That's about the size of the population of New Mexico."

2. Telework: History and Reality

Randy Irwin addresses the historical context of telework within the federal government. He traces the evolution of remote work back to post-9/11 priorities under the Bush administration and how the COVID-19 pandemic further accelerated telework practices.

Randy Irwin [02:16]: "Covid the thing that sparked it, and then people just never came back to work in as great a numbers."

Irwin clarifies misconceptions about telework efficiency and eligibility:

Randy Irwin [02:22]: "Telework became a very high priority of the Bush administration... the federal workforce was sent home. But it was really a success story because our government continued to operate."

He challenges the narrative that federal workers are not returning to offices by presenting data that contradicts claims made by some political figures.

Randy Irwin [03:24]: "100% of their time is spent at the federal work site. There's 37% of the federal workforce, a minority of the federal workforce, that both has a federal work site and is eligible for telework."

3. Debunking Misconceptions About Telework

Irwin confronts the misleading statistic that only 6% of federal workers are returning to office, asserting its inaccuracy.

Randy Irwin [04:26]: "We'll ask them. But do you know where the 6% figure comes from that they're citing?"

He discusses the political motivations behind such statistics, suggesting that jealousy from the private sector plays a role.

Randy Irwin [04:33]: "It is very much a made up problem that federal workers aren't coming to work. That's nonsense."

Irwin also highlights the inefficiency of mandating office returns without downsizing real estate, which could have resulted in taxpayer savings.

Randy Irwin [06:14]: "They are putting a stick in the spokes. They're pouring sand on the gears. That does not make our government more efficient."

4. The Buyout Offer and Its Implications

The discussion shifts to the Trump administration's buyout offer, which proposed that 75,000 federal employees could resign and receive an eight-month paid vacation. Irwin criticizes this move as coercive and ineffective.

Randy Irwin [08:11]: "It's terrible for our country... they were under threat of being fired. But even if they accepted it, there’s no protection from a reduction in force."

He explains that the offer did not provide the security promised, leaving many employees vulnerable to future layoffs.

Randy Irwin [09:22]: "There's a big difference between that and having to continue to work until that resignation date."

5. Future Consequences of Workforce Downsizing

Irwin paints a bleak picture of the potential outcomes if the federal workforce is significantly reduced. He emphasizes the critical services that would be compromised, including:

• Veterans Affairs: With 30% of the federal workforce being veterans, a layoff of 75% would devastate services for veterans.

  Randy Irwin [20:38]: "If we lose 75% of the VA workforce, we would no longer be making good on the promise to care for our veterans."

• Wildland Firefighting: The reduction would impair the Forest Service's ability to manage increasing wildfires.

  Randy Irwin [15:36]: "Communities will burn to the ground if we don't have enough Wildland firefighters."

• Homeland Security and Public Safety: Essential services like homeland security and safe air travel would be at risk.

Irwin warns that such drastic cuts would lead to long-term damage, making it nearly impossible to restore effective government operations.

Randy Irwin [11:23]: "It really will be an absolute disaster in this country."

6. Legal and Constitutional Challenges

Irwin addresses the legal battles arising from the administration's policies, asserting that the mass firings are illegal.

Randy Irwin [16:24]: "We filed a lawsuit. It's completely illegal what they're doing."

He references the constitutional obligation of the President to faithfully execute laws, criticizing Trump for undermining this duty.

Randy Irwin [16:24]: "Trump is, you know, Article 2, Section 3 of the Constitution. He has to faithfully execute the laws of this country, and he is flaunting the laws."

7. Organizational Response and Member Support

Despite the adversity, Irwin notes a surge in membership and solidarity among federal employees.

Randy Irwin [19:20]: "Our membership is growing. Our membership, we've had more growth in the last three weeks than at any point in our history because federal employees are feeling threatened."

He underscores the dedication of federal workers to their roles and the importance of their services to the American public.

8. Conclusion and Call to Action

Cheryl Atkison wraps up the episode by directing listeners to additional resources and upcoming content. She mentions that the interview provides one perspective and points to further discussions scheduled for March 30, which will include opposing viewpoints and additional data supporting the 6% telework figure.

Cheryl Atkison [21:25]: "You can see this interview but hear the entire story... to listen to this after March 30th, you can still go to FullMeasure News and look for the story on Telework."

Key Takeaways

• Telework Efficiency: The federal government's ability to maintain operations through telework during the COVID-19 pandemic was effective, challenging claims of widespread non-compliance.

• Misleading Statistics: Assertions that only a small percentage of federal workers are returning to office are misleading and politically motivated.

• Impact of Downsizing: Significant reductions in the federal workforce threaten essential services, national security, and support for veterans.

• Legal Challenges: The administration's actions face legal scrutiny and constitutional challenges, emphasizing the rule of law.

• Federal Workforce Solidarity: Increased union membership reflects growing resistance and concern among federal employees regarding job security and administrative policies.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Cheryl Atkison [00:53]: "When President Trump took office for a second term, there were somewhere in the neighborhood of about 2.3 million civilian federal employees. That's about the size of the population of New Mexico."

• Randy Irwin [03:24]: "100% of their time is spent at the federal work site. There's 37% of the federal workforce, a minority of the federal workforce, that both has a federal work site and is eligible for telework."

• Randy Irwin [08:11]: "It's terrible for our country... they were under threat of being fired. But even if they accepted it, there’s no protection from a reduction in force."

• Randy Irwin [16:24]: "We filed a lawsuit. It's completely illegal what they're doing."

• Randy Irwin [20:38]: "If we lose 75% of the VA workforce, we would no longer be making good on the promise to care for our veterans."

This episode of Full Measure After Hours provides a critical examination of the Trump administration's policies towards federal employees, highlighting the potential ramifications of workforce downsizing and the resilience of federal workers in the face of administrative challenges.