Podcast Summary: Full Measure After Hours — "Fluoride-Free"

Host: Sharyl Attkisson
Guest: Dr. Joseph Ladapo, Surgeon General of Florida
Date: November 13, 2025

Overview

In this episode of Full Measure After Hours, investigative reporter Sharyl Attkisson delves into the rapidly growing movement to remove fluoride from public drinking water, a trend fueled by contemporary research and mounting safety concerns. Attkisson interviews Florida Surgeon General Dr. Joseph Ladapo following Florida’s landmark decision to ban water fluoridation statewide, exploring the science, controversy, and personal stories behind this policy shift.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historical Context of Water Fluoridation

• Water fluoridation began in the 1940s, originally using industrial byproducts from aluminum and phosphate fertilizer plants ([00:34]).
• Attkisson notes that labeling fluoride concerns as "conspiracy theory" was media and industry-driven, but modern scientific findings are unignorable:

  "The overwhelming scientific data over the years has become impossible to ignore." — Sharyl Attkisson ([00:34])

2. Perception and Risks of Fluoride

• Dr. Ladapo clarifies a central misconception:

  "It is a poison. And folks don't know that. Most folks don't know that." — Dr. Joseph Ladapo ([02:50])

• His personal awareness was shaped by his wife’s concerns about using fluoride toothpaste for their children. Initially, he found the research landscape confusing and "impossible to get accurate information about scientifically controversial issues," echoing his previous experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic ([03:03]–[07:13]).

3. Catalyst for Change: Federal Ruling

• A pivotal moment was a federal judge's order for the EPA to address fluoride as a toxic substance, highlighting “an unreasonable risk to children's IQ.” This spurred Ladapo to dig deeper into the data and reconsider his family’s approach ([07:13]).

4. Scientific Evidence & Dose-Response Relationship

• Ladapo, drawing from his research background, highlights the consensus across numerous studies:

  "The vast majority line up on this side of fluoride potentially being harmful... not only do you have congruence across many, many studies in different countries, but there's also a presence of a dose response relationship." ([07:47])

• Explained simply, this means children in areas with higher fluoride exposure tend to show more negative outcomes (e.g., lower IQ, behavioral problems), and these effects increase with dosage ([09:11]).

  "You have to be crazy to not like pay attention to that. I mean, that's very compelling evidence outside of a clinical trial." ([09:16])

5. Criticism of Pro-Fluoride Studies

• Responding to critics who say pro-fluoride studies are stronger, Ladapo asserts:

  "Yes, there are some studies that don't show a relationship... But the majority of studies do show a relationship. The relationship happens to be a dose response relationship. It is poor judgment to ignore that. People can do it like the American Dental Association. They can do that. But it is poor judgment." ([11:05])

6. Florida's Ban on Water Fluoridation

• Prior to the ban, most Floridians consumed fluoridated water; some cities and counties began opting out before it became state law.
• Miami-Dade County’s vote to remove fluoride, accomplished by a single vote after overcoming a mayoral veto, exemplifies the contentious, bipartisan nature of the decision ([12:05]–[15:21]).
• As of recording:

  "It is illegal for cities and counties to add fluoride to water." — Dr. Joseph Ladapo ([15:58])

7. Dental Health Concerns Without Fluoride

• Dental groups argue cavity rates will rise without fluoridation, potentially harming children. Ladapo disputes this:

  "This whole idea that, you know, the floor is just going to come out from underneath this in terms of dental health is not supported by any data. There's no data to support that. None whatsoever." ([16:34])

• He stresses education and proper dental hygiene are the true determinants of oral health, not fluoride.

8. National Outlook and Federal Implications

• Ladapo encourages continued advocacy, criticizing professional groups for "spouting nonsense" and calling for persistent action at state and federal levels ([18:54]):

  "Eventually, on a nationwide level, the EPA is not going to be permitting municipalities to add fluoride. It's just, when you look at the totality of the evidence, it's just. It's really insane to continue doing it. It's just far too risky." ([18:54])

9. Motivations of Dental Groups

• On why dental groups defend fluoridation, Ladapo offers a candid assessment:

  "We have this indoctrination syndrome in healthcare. And I actually, I wish that they were financially motivated because it's almost easier to work with that. But instead... it's really more of a doctrine. It's really more of a... almost a religious, fervent belief system." ([20:59])

• He also suggests professional reputation and “indoctrination” drive such commitments.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Research Barriers:
  "How difficult it is to actually get accurate information about scientifically controversial issues." — Dr. Joseph Ladapo ([03:03])

• On Dose Response:
  "When the doses of fluoride are lower, you have less of that... as the doses fluoride increase, you have more of that." — Dr. Ladapo ([09:16])

• On Why Dental Groups Resist Change:
  "It transcends financial interests, it transcends common sense, it transcends literally the evidence that is in front of them." — Dr. Ladapo ([20:59])

• Anecdote:
  Dr. Ladapo describes his own struggles with dental decay despite drinking fluoridated water, emphasizing the role of education over additives ([16:34]).

Important Timestamps

• 00:34 — Attkisson introduces the fluoride debate and industrial origins.
• 02:50 — Dr. Ladapo: “It is a poison. And folks don't know that.”
• 07:13 — Federal ruling prompts Ladapo to re-examine fluoride risks.
• 09:16 — Explanation of the dose-response relationship with fluoride.
• 12:09 — Florida’s process and experiences with removing fluoride.
• 15:58 — It is now illegal for Florida municipalities to add fluoride.
• 16:34 — Addressing arguments from dental groups on cavities and public health.
• 18:54 — National outlook and the future of water fluoridation policy.
• 20:59 — Ladapo describes "indoctrination syndrome" in healthcare resistance.

Conclusion

This episode provides an in-depth, sometimes provocative look at why Florida led the way in banning water fluoridation and how one doctor’s evolution on the issue reflects a larger societal shift. Dr. Ladapo’s personal narrative, scientific analysis, and critique of entrenched beliefs offer listeners substantial food for thought on the controversies, motivations, and future direction of public health policy regarding fluoride.