After Hours: Hard Drugs; Soft on Crime

Summary

Full Measure After Hours: After Hours – Hard Drugs; Soft on Crime

Host: Sharyl Attkisson
Release Date: February 13, 2025

---

Introduction: Oregon's Controversial Drug Legislation

In the February 13, 2025 episode of Full Measure After Hours, host Sharyl Attkisson delves into Oregon's ambitious yet contentious attempt to address the state's drug crisis by legalizing hard drugs. The episode, titled "Hard Drugs; Soft on Crime," explores the ramifications of this bold policy shift and its subsequent reversal.

---

1. The Experiment with Legalizing Hard Drugs

Oregon's venture into legalizing hard substances such as heroin, fentanyl, and other opioids was initiated through a ballot measure approved by voters. This move, intended to mitigate the opioid crisis, instead led to significant societal upheaval.

Sharyl Attkisson (00:04): "Oregon is attempting a big turnaround after voters approved a controversial law a couple of years back that, believe it or not, legalized hard drugs including heroin, fentanyl opioids, and other hard drugs."

2. Consequences of the Policy

The legalization experiment quickly proved disastrous, even in the traditionally liberal state of Oregon. Key issues that emerged included:

• Surge in Overdose Deaths: The permissive drug laws led to skyrocketing overdose rates.

  Nathan Vasquez (05:00): "We saw people coming from outside of our state... and skyrocketing rates of overdose deaths."

• Explosion in Homelessness: The influx of fentanyl at the southern border exacerbated homelessness, intertwining with mental health issues and substance abuse.

  Sharyl Attkisson (00:27): "There was also an explosion in homelessness which in many places like Oregon coincided with the fentanyl opening up at the southern border."

• Defunding of Police: Concurrent movements to defund the police resulted in a significant reduction in law enforcement personnel, undermining public safety.

  Nathan Vasquez (03:31): "There was an outright campaign to discourage police from even coming here. And we saw dramatic drops in our numbers of law enforcement officers."

• Rise in Crime Rates: Portland experienced a dramatic increase in both violent and property crimes, including homicides that surged from an average of 20-30 to over 100 annually.

  Nathan Vasquez (07:21): "We went from averaging about 20 to 30 homicides in the city of Portland to over 100. So we saw some really dramatic increases."

---

3. Public Backlash and Policy Reversal

The dire outcomes of the legalized drug policy led to widespread public dissatisfaction. Voters, disillusioned by the failure to deliver promised benefits and the exacerbation of social issues, elected Nathan Vasquez as the new Multnomah County District Attorney to spearhead a criminal justice turnaround.

Sharyl Attkisson (00:04): "Voters voting out the supposedly soft on crime, George Soros funded prosecutor that had been there for a couple of years and voting in Nathan Vasquez."

4. Election of Nathan Vasquez: A New Direction for Multnomah County

Nathan Vasquez, in his first week as DA, outlines his commitment to reversing the failed policies and restoring law and order.

• Accountability with Compassion: Vasquez emphasizes the importance of holding individuals accountable while providing support for rehabilitation.

  Nathan Vasquez (09:46): "It's okay to hold people accountable if they break the law, they should be held accountable, and we can do that in a compassionate manner."

• Rebuilding Trust with Law Enforcement: A key aspect of his agenda is to mend relationships between the DA’s office and the police force, which were strained during the policy upheavals.

  Nathan Vasquez (09:56): "We need to have a functioning system. We need to have a partnership with law enforcement."

5. Broader National Trends in Criminal Justice

Vasquez discusses the shifting philosophies in criminal justice across the United States, noting a move back towards balanced approaches that incorporate both accountability and support systems.

Nathan Vasquez (16:55): "It certainly has come back to the middle... to do things in a way which I am holding folks accountable, but doing it in a very reasonable, compassionate way."

6. Specific Challenges in Portland

The episode highlights unique challenges faced by Portland, including:

• Homelessness and Crime: The intersection of homelessness with crime, particularly violent offenses, remains a critical concern.

  Nathan Vasquez (26:38): "We've seen a dramatic explosion in our houseless population and a dramatic increase in homicides and violent crime inside that community."

• Marijuana Legalization: While marijuana is legal in Oregon, it presents its own set of challenges, such as increased robberies and conflicts between legal and illegal markets.

  Nathan Vasquez (14:18): "We see significant robberies and issues related to the marijuana industry... which means they deal with a lot of cash and are vulnerable to robberies."

7. Internal Dynamics within the DA’s Office

Vasquez touches upon the internal disagreements and the struggle to maintain professionalism amidst policy shifts.

Nathan Vasquez (23:16): "The folks that work in this office work extremely hard, and they are very nose to the grindstone."

8. Future Directions and Goals

Looking ahead, Nathan Vasquez sets clear objectives to restore safety and order in Portland:

• Reducing Homicide Rates: Aim to significantly lower the number of annual homicides.

  Nathan Vasquez (19:22): "Seeing our homicide rates come down... that are very real examples of what I would like to see as a whole."

• Decreasing Overdose Deaths: Focused efforts to reduce the number of overdose-related fatalities.

  Nathan Vasquez (19:22): "A dramatic drop in our overdose deaths."

• Enhancing Public Safety: Ensuring that families feel safe and businesses can thrive without the threat of crime.

  Nathan Vasquez (19:43): "I want this community to feel safe... people to feel safe coming back downtown."

---

Conclusion: A Shift Towards Balanced Criminal Justice

The episode concludes with a reflection on the necessity of balancing compassionate approaches with firm accountability in criminal justice. Nathan Vasquez embodies this equilibrium, striving to rectify past policy failures and pave the way for a safer, more stable Portland.

Nathan Vasquez (24:04): "The last thing I ever want to see is that victims are left out of that conversation."

---

Notable Quotes:

• Cheryl Attkisson (00:04): "Today on this podcast, I'm gonna speak with Multnomah County District Attorney Nathan Vasquez... legalizing hard drugs for a couple of years just proved to be disastrous."

• Nathan Vasquez (09:46): "It's okay to hold people accountable if they break the law... in a compassionate manner."

• Nathan Vasquez (16:55): "It has swung... back towards the middle... holding folks accountable, but doing it in a very reasonable, compassionate way."

• Nathan Vasquez (19:22): "Seeing our homicide rates come down, seeing public use of these hard drugs see that change and to see a dramatic drop in our overdose deaths."

---

This episode of Full Measure After Hours provides an in-depth analysis of Oregon's radical drug policies, their unintended consequences, and the ongoing efforts to restore balance and safety within the community. Nathan Vasquez's insights offer a roadmap for other regions grappling with similar challenges, highlighting the complex interplay between legislation, public health, and law enforcement.

Transcript

[Cheryl Atkison]

Hi everybody. Cheryl Atkison here. Welcome to another edition of Full Measure after hours. Today we are off to Portland, Oregon for my story. Hard drugs, soft on crime. Oregon is attempting a big turnaround after voters approved a controversial law a couple of years back that, that believe it or not, legalized hard drugs including heroin, fentanyl opioids, other hard drugs. Today on this podcast, I'm gonna speak with Multnomah County District Attorney Nathan Vasquez, that's in the Portland area. I sat down with him his first week on the job. Such a fascinating case because after they tried that experiment with the hard drugs for a couple of years, it just proved to be disastrous. And even in very, very ultra liberal Portland, Oregon and Oregon at large, the legislature decided to rescind that controversial law and do a big turnaround, try to dial things back. A lot of other things happened about the same time they legalized or allowed the use of these hard drugs. There was also an explosion in homelessness which in many places like Oregon coincided with the fentanyl opening up at the southern border. So much fentanyl coming in and so many drug overdoses, so much mental illness. They also did a big defund the police movement in Oregon during this time period. So all of these things together dovetailed to greatly increase crime and other problems, resulting in voters voting out the supposedly soft on crime, George Soros funded prosecutor that had been there for a couple of years and voting in Nathan Vasquez. And I think you're going to find this conversation with him fascinating.

[Interviewer]

This is your first week on the.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Job, first week on the job as the Multnomah county district attorney.

[Interviewer]

And just. We'll dig in in a moment, but if you can, in just a paragraph, what would you say if people aren't familiar with Portland, is the story of Portland like where you are now in terms of the criminal justice system and what's been happening? Again, I'll ask some specific questions, but how would you tell it on the book flap of a book about it?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Portland has been through an immense upheaval in the last, you know, four to 10 years. You know, we started seeing some changes and then in 2000, you know, Portland.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It'S no secret we went through a massive series of riots. We had a new DA come in.

[Nathan Vasquez]

That was backed by Soros and you know, there was a lot of changes that occurred and unfortunately at the same.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Time we saw immense spikes in gun.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Violence, property crimes and crime in general throughout our city.

[Interviewer]

Would you say that this community experienced what some are calling On a national level, soft on crime policies.

[Nathan Vasquez]

What I would say is that those policies certainly didn't help. There were a lot of factors that.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Led to why, you know, why we.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Saw these rises in crime. But certainly those approaches didn't help us when our community needed it the most.

[Interviewer]

Are there any digestible, simple ways you can explain some of the changes that happened and what the net effect was?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Yeah, I mean there was certainly a.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Defund the police movement.

[Nathan Vasquez]

There was really a just an outright campaign to discourage police from even coming here. And we saw dramatic drops in our numbers of law enforcement officers. We saw some, some dramatic changes around our drug laws. And those things combined with some others.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Really affected kind of the day in, day out work in the criminal justice system.

[Interviewer]

I remember hearing as an outsider that here they had passed a law that legalized possession of heroin, all kinds of hard drugs, which I think is in violation of federal law, but it was tolerated here. What was the thinking behind that and what was the net effect?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Well, it's hard for me to give the thinking in the sense that, because I so disagreed with it even at.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The time that it was proposed.

[Nathan Vasquez]

But this was brought from kind of.

[Unnamed Speaker]

An outside think tank group from the east coast.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And the reality is that Oregon, as a small to mid sized state when.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It comes to population and things of.

[Nathan Vasquez]

That nature, we were the perfect environment.

[Unnamed Speaker]

For someone to fund this ballot measure approach. And it was an extreme idea that had a significant impact upon our community.

[Interviewer]

What was the impact? Did a lot more people, do you think, begin carrying and using these hard drugs?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Well, we saw a few different things and certainly that was one of them.

[Nathan Vasquez]

We saw people coming from outside of.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Our state to be here for that purpose.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And we saw just sadly skyrocketing rates of overdose deaths.

[Unnamed Speaker]

We saw public use just explode in our city.

[Nathan Vasquez]

It's something that we have started to see turn around and it's something we're working on hard. But it had an effect, both, you.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Know, a real human tragic effect and.

[Nathan Vasquez]

That people we saw dying every day.

[Interviewer]

How long was that law in effect and when was it overturned and how?

[Nathan Vasquez]

It was approximately like three, about three.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Years is what it was.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Three to four years somewhere right in there.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Because it came into effect, I want.

[Nathan Vasquez]

To say in 2020, 2021, and then it, it was changed by the state.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Legislature under House Bill 4002.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And that was just this past year.

[Interviewer]

This is a liberal or progressive community overall, correct?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Very.

[Interviewer]

Do you think the community here favored trying these things, but as a whole have decided they didn't Work. I mean, we noted that in your election, your opponent, the incumbent, still got quite a bit of the percentage of votes.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Yeah, well, when we talk about this particular. This particular ballot measure, what happened was it was packaged in a certain way.

[Unnamed Speaker]

That made it sound very appealing.

[Nathan Vasquez]

It was packaged that, oh, it was.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Going to provide all this treatment, and.

[Nathan Vasquez]

It was going to do all these wonderful things. And unfortunately, it failed to deliver on those.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And at the same time, it slid in.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And by the way, we're going to.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Decriminalize all these hard drugs.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And so it really was one that I think the public felt like they.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Were sold one thing and got something totally different.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And here, just in this kind of past year, when it was repealed, what happened was that the public really came.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Out strong and said, this is not working.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And it was heard loud and clear by the state legislature, and they made.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The changes that were necessary.

[Interviewer]

Was this the only place in the country that had a law like that.

[Unnamed Speaker]

That was so formalized and widespread?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Yes, I believe Washington and California had similar, but not the same.

[Interviewer]

What has happened to the crime rates or the crime statistics in this area over the past five, ten years?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Well, you know, it certainly had some. A dramatic spike, and that was in the, you know, 2022 to 2023 range.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It started to come down a bit.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And that's very positive, and I'm very.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Very happy and excited about that.

[Nathan Vasquez]

But we're still a long ways away.

[Unnamed Speaker]

From where we should be.

[Nathan Vasquez]

You know, it went. When we're talking about our homicide rates.

[Unnamed Speaker]

We went from averaging about 20 to 30 homicides in the city of Portland to over 100. So we saw some really dramatic increases.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And, you know, when you're doing this, in this line of work, each one.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Of those is a family, and each.

[Nathan Vasquez]

One of those involves, you know, a.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Whole just huge ripple effect where it dramatically impacts the community and traumatizes a great deal of people. The costs are terrible. It just is all around just a dramatic effect.

[Nathan Vasquez]

But that wasn't the only area. I mean, we saw dramatic increases in property crimes. We saw stolen motor vehicles, you know, just skyrocket.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And we.

[Nathan Vasquez]

That means that the everyday person who.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Needs to get to work or take.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Their kid to school and their car is gone, it has huge impact on this community. And that really was something that, you know, propelled me forward to seek office.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And to seek some changes.

[Interviewer]

To what do you attribute those rises in crime?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Well, I mean, did Covid play a part? Sure it did. You know, I. I also saw that the city went through a really dramatic time during 2020 with the.

[Unnamed Speaker]

With the George Floyd protest and riots.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And unfortunately, out of that, we lost.

[Unnamed Speaker]

A lot of police officers.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Our law enforcement, you know, here in the county, saw dramatic drops in their numbers, and that, you know, makes it difficult to really get on top of.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Some of these issues.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And so, you know, that message also was one where, you know, the partnership within our judicial system, you know, our.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Criminal justice system was broken.

[Nathan Vasquez]

You know, it was.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The message received from law enforcement loud and clear was that the DA's office.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Didn'T value them and didn't want to be their partner. And that was something that, for those.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Of us that worked in the DA's office, day in, day out, we heard loud and clear, and we wanted to see that change.

[Interviewer]

As you were running for election, what was your message and how was that counter to the message of the incumbent?

[Nathan Vasquez]

My message was very straightforward and clear.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Which was that it's okay to hold people accountable.

[Nathan Vasquez]

If they break the law, they should be held accountable, and we can do that in a compassionate manner, but that.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Doesn'T mean we don't hold people accountable.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And through it all, it was that.

[Unnamed Speaker]

We need a functioning system. We need to have a partnership with.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Law enforcement, and it's okay to be a prosecutor. And that was. That was the message that I. That I put out and made sure that people knew that they had a.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Dedicated professional with over two decades of experience who wanted to do this job and do it for the right reasons.

[Interviewer]

As you've experienced, the ebb and flow of opinions and what people think is the answer to the problems here. The same debate is taking place in communities across the country.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It does.

[Interviewer]

What kinds of things have you observed about, again, the ebb and flow of what's happening in other big cities?

[Nathan Vasquez]

You know, I think as criminal justice evolves, what we're seeing is that, you know, there. There were some. Some big swings in 20, 20 and. And through those years, but we're starting to see people come back to that.

[Unnamed Speaker]

What's, hopefully a very. A good kind of middle position, which is, hey, we want to see accountability.

[Nathan Vasquez]

But, you know, we.

[Unnamed Speaker]

We can still find ways to help.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Individuals that are, you know, find themselves.

[Unnamed Speaker]

In the criminal justice system.

[Nathan Vasquez]

We can do things to get them into treatment. We can do things to help, you.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Know, stabilize their life so that they.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Don'T commit more crimes. I think, particularly in this community, that.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Is the mandate that is very clear. They want to see people get out of the system.

[Nathan Vasquez]

As you go ahead and just, you know, across. Across, you know, the United States, you know, we've seen that certainly down in.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Los Angeles, they've made a big change in California. They passed Proposition 36.

[Nathan Vasquez]

There's been a move, I really believe, throughout the country to say, hey, we want reasonable solutions. We want to make sure that there's accountability. But done very thoughtfully, as you worked.

[Interviewer]

In recent years under this changing time, what would you say was the philosophy that was dictating how things were done?

[Nathan Vasquez]

When we talk about in the past.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Four years, the philosophy was very heavy.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Onto social justice movement. There are a lot of positive, wonderful aspects of that. But at the same time, the message.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Still needs to be very clear that this system here works and that people.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Will be held accountable when it comes.

[Interviewer]

To money and funding. Is it more expensive to handle the problems that arise when you're not prosecuting some crimes, or do you think it's more expensive to try to prosecute the crimes that were being kind of let go?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Well, I mean, there's always a lot of different, you know, studies out there on that. It is, it is vastly more expensive.

[Unnamed Speaker]

When you let crime get out of.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Control and then you have to try.

[Unnamed Speaker]

To pay for all of the ramifications of that.

[Nathan Vasquez]

You know, I've seen some studies here recently done locally about, you know, when.

[Unnamed Speaker]

We talk about these murders, you know.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And I mentioned that we, we saw, you know, a. Over 100 murders in a single year in Portland.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And each one of those can cost millions of dollars.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And, you know, if we do work to both, I think there's a very.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Valid role of prevention and working inside of our communities and working with our community based organizations to prevent those crimes, but also is having a professionally run.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Office that deals with some of the.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Smaller crimes as they build up to.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Some of those bigger ones, that we.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Can also play a really important role.

[Nathan Vasquez]

In heading that off and, you know, not having to suffer those kind of.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Really massive costs that come with these very tragic crimes.

[Interviewer]

Is it fair to say that at a community level, trying out things such as legalizing possession of hard drugs like heroin, that was just a failure?

[Unnamed Speaker]

I've been very clear in saying that was a failure for this community.

[Nathan Vasquez]

We saw it failing not just the.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Community, but the individuals.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And it's not that I believe that we need to lock people up, but.

[Unnamed Speaker]

At the same time, we need to be very intentional and thoughtful and make sure that we don't allow these situations to get out of control.

[Nathan Vasquez]

We need to intervene with people and try to help them get stability and get them into treatment.

[Interviewer]

How have marijuana laws impacted the job of Prosecutions and trying to reduce crime.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's certainly changed it in a lot of ways.

[Nathan Vasquez]

You know, we. We don't deal with marijuana in the sense of it's. It's legalized here in, in Oregon. It's become a business.

[Unnamed Speaker]

There have been some ramifications with that. We see, you know, significant robberies and issues related to the marijuana industry, so we have to deal with that.

[Nathan Vasquez]

There's still the federal question that's unresolved, but which.

[Interviewer]

That this is illegal from a federal level, but it's being tolerated in states that have legalized it.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Yes. And I mean, you know, certainly I would love for us to find a.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Balance with the federal system because it.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Affects everything like banking. You know, these are in. In Oregon, these are legal businesses that are doing a lot of transactions, but.

[Unnamed Speaker]

That means they deal with a lot of cash. And that means that they can be very vulnerable to robberies and thefts and things that.

[Nathan Vasquez]

We've seen quite a few homicides associated with that. And, you know, what I've seen is that as this has developed through time.

[Unnamed Speaker]

These businesses are trying to become very.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Professional and credible and do the right things. But it can be difficult when there are certain barriers and limitations to how they operate.

[Interviewer]

I don't have a position on legalized marijuana, but we've covered it in different states and have been pretty much told that wherever it's been legalized, I don't know which if it's chicken or egg, but mental illness, homelessness, crime, and even the illegal marijuana trade, which was the hope was it would diminish if marijuana was legalized, seems to be blooming because it's so much cheaper to buy the untaxed version of the marijuana on the black market. So it just seems like it's. It's not worked out well.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Well, there certainly are issues and problems.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And I think we see that whether it's alcohol or marijuana, different ones, there.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Can be ramifications that come with that.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And as a society and as a community, we try to deal with those. And it's one that, you know, my position is always this.

[Unnamed Speaker]

As a prosecutor, my job is to prosecute the laws that are on the books.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And I don't make the laws, but.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I make sure that I do my.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Job in my role. And this is one where in the state of Oregon, they've said loud and clear that marijuana is going to be illegal. So I go forward with that understanding.

[Interviewer]

Do you have a sense that on a national level the proverbial pendulum has swung from more of a softer on crime mentality to more of a tougher on crime mentality.

[Nathan Vasquez]

I think it certainly has come back to the middle and that's. So it has swung, I think away from the, you know, if I don't personally like those terms, but it has from the what I'll call ultra progressive side. It's swung, I think back towards the middle, which I, I try to find myself in kind of most squarely is, you know, to, to do things in a way which I am holding folks accountable, but doing it in a very reasonable, compassionate way.

[Interviewer]

And then. Can you explain you touched upon it but sorry, how Oregon is a good test market or market for ideas that, to try out things that are controversial. Can you explain that?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Well, it's our ballot measure, our ballot measure system or process. It's just that for this market, you know, the investment compared to like California or New York or, you know, even Washington, you know, our, our state, you.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Know, we only need to get a.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Certain number of signatures to get, you know, a measure on the, on the ballot. And then once that happens, it is.

[Unnamed Speaker]

A question of, well, what's the cost.

[Nathan Vasquez]

To then put together a campaign to support that. And so we've seen that as something that's occurred in our state quite a few times. And it certainly was the, the case with Ballot Measure 110 with the legalization of a lot of those heart drugs.

[Interviewer]

Any other measures that come to mind that, that happened with.

[Nathan Vasquez]

There was one here just this past cycle that was a, a tax on.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Large corporations that was then going to.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Turn around and give everyone. I think it was like 1300 to.

[Unnamed Speaker]

$1500 per year or something.

[Interviewer]

Universal income or something.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Something of that nature. Yes, that one was proposed this, this.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Last time and it was put on the ballot and it did not succeed.

[Interviewer]

So in some cases, outsiders come into Oregon and get these ballot measures passed to have it lead the way, maybe in some agenda.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Ballot measure 110, the legalization of hard.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Drugs, that was the prime example.

[Interviewer]

What was that group from the east coast you said?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Oh, back in, when they, when they.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Did the ballot measure, it had a.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Slightly different name, but it was a drug policy alliance was the big ones.

[Unnamed Speaker]

That at least at the end they were named.

[Interviewer]

When you look at the next four years, what would you consider a measure of success for you?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Well, definitely seeing our homicide rates come.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Down, seeing public use of these hard.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Drugs, see that change and to see.

[Unnamed Speaker]

A dramatic drop in our overdose deaths.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Those are all things that, you know.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Are very real examples of.

[Nathan Vasquez]

You know, what I would like to see as a whole, I want this community to feel safe.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I want, you know, families to feel like they can use the parks. I want businesses to thrive in our.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Downtown and people to feel safe coming back downtown.

[Interviewer]

And then lastly, is there anything that people who don't live here would be very surprised to find out about the criminal justice system and how it's operated in recent years? Anything that surprised you when it was happening when you're working as a prosecutor?

[Nathan Vasquez]

You know, there were some surprises that I think really helped spur me to this. This role, which is that, you know.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Some of the changes.

[Nathan Vasquez]

There was a, you know, one around, you know, there's the commutations ones.

[Unnamed Speaker]

That was a big controversial one that.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Came up in 2023 when our governor.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Left office and commuted the sentences of a lot of very violent criminals.

[Nathan Vasquez]

But also the.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The district attorneys in each county were granted the authority to also do their own form. I'm going to call it roughly commutations.

[Nathan Vasquez]

But we are allowed to enter into.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Agreements to take someone that may be.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Either in prison or has already served a sentence, but essentially to wipe out.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Their sentence and get rid of it completely.

[Nathan Vasquez]

That means it can include taking people who are currently serving a term in prison and setting it up so that they get out. And that was something that played out.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Right at the end of my predecessor's.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Term on a very violent, very.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Just terrible crime.

[Nathan Vasquez]

It was a murder. A murder and kind of home invasion, burglary of three different families, one of.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Which there was a sexual assault. I was very shocked that that was even a possibility.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Um, you know, and. And so it's something that.

[Unnamed Speaker]

That while I see some value certainly in.

[Nathan Vasquez]

In individuals that have served their sentence maybe on a. On a smaller crime, like a.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like an old drug charge or something. And now they want to be productive members of the community. Absolutely, let's do that.

[Nathan Vasquez]

But when we're talking about violent criminals, and particularly those involved in sexual assault, that's a. That's pretty shocking to me that that's.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Something that we can. We can do.

[Interviewer]

What was the justification given for that?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Twofold, I suppose.

[Nathan Vasquez]

One is that it was believed that it was an excessive sentence, which certainly.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Didn'T shock my conscience, the sentence.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And the other one was, I guess, simply to.

[Unnamed Speaker]

To release this individual.

[Nathan Vasquez]

It's one that now it's.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's back to me to review this petition.

[Nathan Vasquez]

I'm going to take a look at.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It and make my decisions.

[Interviewer]

When will that be?

[Nathan Vasquez]

I think there was a hearing scheduled in February, but ultimately I'll have to.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Look at and decide whether I want to go down that road or not, when there were four specific ones that got set over.

[Interviewer]

And then lastly, I just thought of one final thing. Obviously, when you're a prosecutor working in an office, you're doing your job, but clearly there are vastly different ideas and theories about what that job should be. Was there a lot of discussion about that among people working these cases in the last four years? Were there a lot of people who disagreed internally with how things were being done, or do people mostly keep their. Clearly you disagree, but do most attorneys keep their nose to the grindstone and just not think about it? What would you say?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Well, I would say that day in, day out, you know, the.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The folks that work in this office work extremely hard, and they are very nose to the grindstone.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And sometimes it's very hard to come.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Up for air and say, wait a.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Minute, do I agree or disagree with what's going on? But I will say, in this office.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The folks looked outside.

[Nathan Vasquez]

It was just.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It was.

[Nathan Vasquez]

When you walked out the courthouse doors.

[Unnamed Speaker]

We saw the changes in the city.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And it was terrible. And I know that I was not alone in feeling that way, because the.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Union of district attorneys supported me in this election because they saw that, too. They saw that this community needed more, they needed a better approach, and that's.

[Nathan Vasquez]

What I'm here to give.

[Interviewer]

Anything else you want to add?

[Unnamed Speaker]

No.

[Nathan Vasquez]

I mean, one of my big. I would say the other part that drove me was that while I believe.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The social justice movement is very important.

[Nathan Vasquez]

The last thing I ever want to.

[Unnamed Speaker]

See is that victims are left out of that conversation.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And that was something that I was very concerned about. And as a prosecutor doing this for over 20 years, serving families and victims of crime, that's something that can never be lost sight of.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And it is always a huge priority.

[Nathan Vasquez]

For me and for this office.

[Interviewer]

Do you partner and meet with the mayor? Is that part. I mean, I know this is your first week on the job, but is that part of the thing to have discussions? And if so, what are you talking about?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Yeah, well, I do meet with the mayor.

[Unnamed Speaker]

In fact, we.

[Nathan Vasquez]

We talked throughout the campaign time period.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I met with him before each of us took office.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And so it's something that I do.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Regularly meet with him on.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about this subject.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's a huge issue with our community, and he's put out some very, very aspirational goals.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And I am.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I'm fully supportive of that because I.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Certainly want to see Individuals who are, you know, in such a state, living on the streets. I want to see them get into some stabilized shelter and into housing. I want that. And so of course I want to help support that. But these are some very lofty goals he's put out. And I'm, I, I am hopeful and, and I want it as much as anyone else. I just hope that he'll find the.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Support along the way to get there.

[Interviewer]

Like, what are his goals? Is he said he wants to reduce, you know, get rid of it completely.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Visibly, or I believe that was part of it. It was also that there would be enough shelter space for everyone who's currently.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Unhoused that there would, that he would essentially within a year turn this all around.

[Nathan Vasquez]

I mean, it's. They were pretty lofty goals. And you know, I. There, I'm, I'm a little bit of two minds. One is I appreciate someone that puts out a big proposal and goal and says I'm going to shoot for this. And hey, if we come up just a little bit short, we've made a ton of progress. I greatly appreciate that. I really do. And that's why I'm very supportive of his efforts. But there's a pragmas in me and I tend to be very pragmatic. And so I want to make sure that are we doing all the necessary little individual things and working with, you.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Know, there's a whole host of individuals, whether it's community based organizations, the county, the city, all of these to make.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Sure that everyone can hopefully work together.

[Unnamed Speaker]

To get, get us to that goal.

[Interviewer]

How does the homeless crisis impact crime? What you're trying to do?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Yeah, so it's an area that I think like many west coast cities, we've seen a dramatic explosion in our houseless population and we've also seen a dramatic, you know, increase in homicides and violent crime inside that community.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Oftentimes they are our most vulnerable victims.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And so it has, it has a.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Huge impact on what we do.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And that's, I mean, at the end.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Of the day, why I'm a huge.

[Nathan Vasquez]

You know, supporter and I'm going to be doing everything I can to help the mayor in this area because if we can make improvements there, then hopefully that will impact overall crime and help.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Individuals and have less victims and less crime.

[Interviewer]

I'm not sure. It's often said clearly there are a lot of poor people and mentally ill and victims and substance abusers among the homeless population, but there are also bad people who come and hide among the homeless. There are criminals and really bad types that are there, too.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I've prosecuted those cases.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And what I've found is that these folks that are living on the streets, they're vulnerable.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And so unfortunately, there are people that.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Will go and take advantage of them.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And commit a whole host of terrible crimes.

[Nathan Vasquez]

And it's something that I've been very.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Diligent with and very vigilant to make.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Sure that my office is really doing.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Everything we can to help that part of our community.

[Interviewer]

Do you consider yourself a Democrat, Republican, Independent? Yeah. I know it's a nonpartisan race, but are you public about any.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Yeah, no. I mean, here's how it works in Oregon and in Multnomah County.

[Interviewer]

Let me ask it as a question, since he asked him, are you a Democrat or Republican or something else?

[Nathan Vasquez]

Something else. So I, I consider myself independent. It's a nonpartisan position. And for me, I've really kind of.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Built my career on not picking a side, but really staying with what's the law and how do I prosecute it. And how that plays out very directly.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Is that here in Portland, as we.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Know, politics comes in and we've had.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Some dramatic riots and protest. And I prosecuted equally both sides.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I prosecuted Antifa and I prosecuted the.

[Nathan Vasquez]

Proud boys when, you know, on the.

[Unnamed Speaker]

On the far other side.

[Nathan Vasquez]

So I try to be very balanced in my approach.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And the only question for me is, is someone breaking the law? That's the key.

[Cheryl Atkison]

My whole story on this topic airs Sunday on full measure, February 16th. I will also be talking with a police official about the trends and some recovering addicts. You might be surprised to hear what they have to say about that law that for a couple of years allowed the use of heroin, fentanyl, et cetera. To find out how to watch Full Measure, go to Cheryl Atkison.com, click the full Measure tab for a list of stations and times. Also, if it's easier for you, we feed the program live on Sundays online at FullMeasure News around 9:35am Eastern Time, and then it's posted there thereafter. So if you're listening to this after February 16th, you can just go to FullMeasure News and watch the program there. I hope you enjoyed this podcast and that if you did, you'll leave a terrific review. Subscribe to it and share it with your friends. And check out my other podcast, the Cheryl Atkison Podcast. And don't forget, if you've been thinking about it but haven't decided whether you should buy my most recent bestseller, now's the time to do it. It's called Follow the How Big Pharma Misleads, Obscures and Prevails. It explains a lot about our corrupted medical establishment and the whole system that's resulted in us really dying and suffering with so many chronic disorders, as so much of our medical establishment didn't really seem to care but for treating them, but not getting to the bottom of what's causing them them. Read some of the five star reviews at Amazon and I think you'll be impressed with how much people say they learned, even those who consider themselves well informed on the topic, and how meticulously documented these anecdotes and this information is in Follow the Science. Do your own research, make up your own mind. Think for yourself.

[Unnamed Speaker]

SA.