After Hours: How Far Can Cities Go to Clear Out the Homeless?

Summary

Full Measure After Hours: How Far Can Cities Go to Clear Out the Homeless?

Release Date: March 20, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Full Measure After Hours, host Sharyl Attkisson delves deep into the contentious issue of homelessness in American cities, with a particular focus on Grants Pass, Oregon. Amidst rising homelessness rates nationwide, smaller towns like Grants Pass find themselves grappling with sudden surges and the ensuing community disruption. This episode explores the intricate dynamics between local government actions, legal battles, and community sentiments, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and potential solutions surrounding homelessness.

Background: The Grants Pass Case

Grants Pass became a focal point in the national debate on homelessness when it was embroiled in a Supreme Court case addressing the rights of cities to relocate homeless encampments from public properties. This lawsuit, initiated six years prior to the podcast's release, questioned whether homeless individuals have an inherent right to reside on public lands without restrictions.

Quote:
Sarah Bristol, former mayor of Grants Pass, reflects on the initial surge in homelessness following the lawsuit:
"Grants Pass doesn't have a homeless shelter. And I think that was the reason why we became the focus of that lawsuit in the first place." [04:31]

Ex-Mayor Sarah Bristol’s Perspective

Sarah Bristol served as the mayor during a critical period when homelessness became a dominant issue in Grants Pass. She emphasizes the lack of infrastructure to support the homeless, particularly the absence of low-barrier shelters that accommodate individuals regardless of their circumstances.

Key Points:

• Challenges Faced: Managing homelessness without adequate shelters led to the establishment of tent encampments in city parks.
• Supreme Court Decision: Allowed Grants Pass to remove homeless individuals from public parks, leading to the creation of designated non-park areas for the homeless.
• Community Division: Bristol and several council members were ousted after advocating for publicly funded shelters, indicating a community split over the issue.

Notable Quote:
Reflecting on the community's reaction to shelter proposals, Bristol states:
"I think all the homeless people I talk to are from this community...they're pretty committed to being in this area." [06:25]

Current Mayor Clint Scherf’s Perspective

Clint Scherf, the newly elected mayor, presents a contrasting approach to his predecessor. He advocates for collaborating with private charities and non-profits to address homelessness rather than relying solely on taxpayer-funded solutions.

Key Points:

• Alternative Solutions: Supports working with organizations like churches and non-profits to provide assistance to the homeless.
• Community Safety: Emphasizes the importance of public safety and accountability, addressing concerns that shelters with strict rules might not accommodate all individuals.
• Legal Constraints: Navigates new laws requiring “objectively reasonable” accommodations when relocating homeless individuals, pushing for coordinated community efforts.

Notable Quote:
Discussing the challenges of implementing shelters, Scherf remarks:
"Why would our community be unsafe when we're allowed...we have responsibilities, we have rules that we’ve got to abide by." [26:06]

Legal and Supreme Court Implications

The Supreme Court's involvement in the Grants Pass case underscored the legal complexities surrounding homelessness. The court's decision highlighted that it isn't solely the responsibility of local governments to manage homelessness, thereby influencing how communities nationwide approach similar issues.

Key Points:

• Injunction Removal: Enabled the city to relocate homeless individuals from parks, yet mandated that relocations be handled “objectively and reasonably.”
• Legal Ambiguity: The vague definition of "objectively reasonable" accommodations leaves much room for interpretation, complicating municipal efforts.
• National Attention: Grants Pass's legal battles have set a precedent, making it a nationwide case study for other communities facing similar challenges.

Notable Quote:
Sarah Bristol discusses the Supreme Court's stance:
"The Supreme Court acknowledged that our shelters, even though they're religious based, are viable shelters for people to utilize." [23:44]

Community Impact and Public Sentiment

Homelessness in Grants Pass has deeply polarized the community. While some residents advocate for compassionate solutions, others prioritize public safety and the usability of communal spaces like parks.

Key Points:

• Economic and Social Factors: Rising housing costs, economic downturns, and inadequate mental health support contribute to the homelessness crisis.
• Public Safety Concerns: Incidents of violence and disruptions from homeless encampments have fueled frustration among residents.
• Political Divide: The election of Mayor Scherf on a platform of change indicates a shift in public sentiment towards seeking new solutions.

Notable Quote:
On the increasing visibility of homelessness, Bristol notes:
"Over the course of four years, they came out of the woods and hiding places, and they were just right there in our city park." [07:48]

National Implications

Grants Pass's struggle with homelessness mirrors broader national challenges. The city's experience offers insights into how local policies, legal frameworks, and community actions interplay to shape responses to homelessness.

Key Points:

• Model for Other Cities: Grants Pass's legal and municipal strategies are being closely watched as other communities seek effective solutions.
• Systemic Issues: Highlighting that homelessness is tied to larger societal problems like economic disparities and inadequate support systems.
• Preventative Measures: Emphasizes the need for comprehensive approaches that address root causes rather than just symptoms.

Notable Quote:
Commenting on the national spotlight on Grants Pass, Scherf states:
"We are underneath the national spotlight. And to fully answer your question, yes, I think everybody's going to be looking at us to see what we do and maybe use it as a model." [33:15]

Conclusions and Future Outlook

The episode concludes with a nuanced perspective on the path forward for Grants Pass. Mayor Scherf aims to foster collaboration among local organizations and leverage community resources to develop sustainable solutions. However, the immediate future remains uncertain as ongoing disputes and logistical challenges persist.

Key Points:

• Collaborative Efforts: Emphasis on uniting former and current council members to support non-profits and develop new strategies.
• Ongoing Challenges: Addressing violent disruptions and finding effective ways to balance community safety with compassionate support for the homeless.
• Hope for Change: Despite current obstacles, there is a collective effort to innovate and implement policies that better serve both residents and the homeless population.

Notable Quote:
Scherf shares his optimism:
"We are volunteer, unpaid people...everyone's going to do the best they can within the best of their abilities." [34:21]

Conclusion

This episode of Full Measure After Hours offers an in-depth exploration of the complex issue of homelessness in Grants Pass, Oregon. Through the perspectives of both the former and current mayors, listeners gain valuable insights into the challenges of balancing legal obligations, community safety, and compassionate support. The Grants Pass case not only highlights the struggles of a smaller city but also serves as a microcosm of the broader national conversation on homelessness, legal rights, and municipal responsibility.

Transcript

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[Cheryl Akisson]

Hi everybody, Cheryl Akisson here. Welcome to another edition of Full Measure After Hours today, How far can cities go to clear out the homeless? You know, it's not only big cities like New York City or Seattle that have had to deal with a spike in homelessness in recent years. Even many smaller towns and cities have had to deal with the same kind of problem. In some ways, when the homeless encampments pop up in smaller towns, it's even more of a disruption to the community. Well, such was the case in Grants Pass, Oregon, a couple of hours south of Portland, where this town became an unlikely center point of a Supreme Court case that attempted to answer the question as to whether cities have the right to move homeless encampments from public property. This case went on for a couple of years and as you'll hear, a lot of towns and cities and communities were waiting for the answer from this Supreme Court case to try to understand whether they had the right at all to to take apart the tent cities and the encampments that were popping up on public property around the country. Or did the homeless people have some kind of right to be on this public property unencumbered? I'll be tackling the issue on both sides this week on full measure Sunday, March 16th. And in today's podcast, you're going to hear two views. First of all, the ex mayor of Grants Pass who found this issue largely in her lap. It had started a little bit before she took office, but throughout the four year course of her term, this was something that really dominated her tenure there. And then you will hear from the current mayor of Grants Pass. Both the former and current mayor favored moving the homeless populations out of the city parks where they were gathering in bigger numbers. But the ousted mayor, Sarah Bristol, she was on the side of wanting to establish more options for publicly funded shelters in the town for the homeless. And she and several other council members were voted out because of their stance. And a new board voted in, including the new mayor, Clint Scherf. He spoke more in favor of not just moving the homeless out of the city public parks, but taking more of an approach of working with private charities, if anything, to handle them or to house them, rather than putting the problem on the shoulders of taxpayers. This really divided the community as I think it has many other cities and towns in America. So again, in a moment, you'll hear from the current mayor, Clint Scherf. But first, the ex mayor, Sarah Bristol.

[Sarah Bristol]

How long were you there for? 4 years.

[Clint Scherf]

Before we dig in, can you explain, can you explain what it's been like to deal with this issue the past four years?

[Sarah Bristol]

Yeah, it's been a really tough issue to deal with. I think our community has been really divided over how to handle it. So we're basically, you know, a community at war within itself over this issue.

[Clint Scherf]

How do you think Grants Pass of all places became the center point of a debate over what to do about the homeless?

[Sarah Bristol]

Yeah, well, Grants Pass doesn't have a homeless shelter. And I think that that was the reason why we became the focus of that lawsuit in the first place, which was six years ago now. And unfortunately we still don't have a low barrier homeless shelter. And so, and that's just part of this community trying to come to terms with how to handle this situation.

[Clint Scherf]

What would you say has been the impact since the Supreme Court decision? What has happened in this community?

[Sarah Bristol]

Yeah, the Supreme Court decision allowed us, allowed the injunction to be removed. And so we were able to move homeless people out of our parks. And the city council established two locations that were not parks, that were city owned property that homeless people could go to. But then the new city council has just recently, this week overturned those. Change the rules anyway on those two locations. And you know, the implications were a new city council. You know that we had four city councilors and myself out of office earlier.

[Clint Scherf]

All of you all were voted out largely over this issue.

[Sarah Bristol]

Two of the counselors didn't run again and then two were running for reelection as well as myself. And yeah, I'm sure it had absolutely everything to do with this issue.

[Clint Scherf]

What do you think the community was disclosed pleased with? Because it's my impression based on what you just said, you were for being able to move the population. Tell Me what your stance was and why you think that didn't fly.

[Sarah Bristol]

Yeah, I've been trying to help establish a shelter here in Grants Pass because I feel that it's important to provide a place that's not just public property where people can go. And I think there's a lot of people in the community who don't want the city to participate in helping to establish a shelter. So that was.

[Clint Scherf]

Do you think their thought is some people have the thought that the more you provide for homeless population, the more may come?

[Sarah Bristol]

Absolutely. They feel that it enables them and traps them in homelessness, and they do feel that more people will come to our community if we. If we allow it. I personally find that all the homeless people I talk to are from this community. I always ask when I go to the shelter or park and, you know, just try to kind of casually ask people where. Where you're from, and they're always from the local.

[Clint Scherf]

What do you think the next five years is going to look like? I guess there's no way to know. But based on what the community has said at once, the results of the lawsuit and the discussions going on now, what do you think might happen?

[Sarah Bristol]

Yeah, I think we do have a number of people in the community who are trying to establish shelters, and so that may well change. Despite whatever the city participates in. I think in the immediate future here, we're going to have some more problems because we're not. We don't have good places for people to be. Coming up later this month.

[Clint Scherf]

This doesn't strike me as a obvious place where homeless people would stay. Let's say you either came from someplace else or ended up homeless from Grants Pass. Why do you think this is a place that's been a center point and has it gotten more so over the years? Over the last five, 10 years, our.

[Sarah Bristol]

Homeless population definitely has both increased and become more visible. So I think because we had the injunction that required us to allow people to stay in the parks, it was very obvious where they were. And over the course of four years, they came out of the woods and hiding places, and they were just right there in our city park. So it was very obvious. But, yeah, I think homelessness is also increasing across America, and it has to do with our economy and the cost of housing and lack of retirement for some people. We have an increasing elderly population living outside. You know, Grants Pass has a. You know, we have a sign downtown. You'll see, it says, it's the climate, you know, and I think we do have a nice climate here. When you're housed. But I think you're correct that it's not a real hospitable environment for people. Year round, we have heat waves that can be 105 degrees. And unfortunately, last summer, right at the time that we were moving people into those lots and out of the city parks, the lots had no shade and we had two heat waves in a row that were over 100 degrees and the people had no shade and no water. Right now, you know, it's cold, it's freezing at night. Sometimes it rains for days and days. And people wouldn't stay here if they weren't attached to this community. And that's why, you know, every time I meet people, I ask them where they're from, and invariably they are from this area. But I think that there's some people who don't want to believe that, and they think that if we're just mean to the homeless or if we don't provide a place for them to stay, they'll go away and they won't. You know, when you're in there day after day in a rainstorm, you know, they're. They're pretty committed to being in this area.

[Clint Scherf]

I think there's a political and social saying about the pendulum swinging on different issues nationally. What do you think the Grants Pass experience says about what's going on on a national scale, or vice versa, what's happening nationally, how that impacts what's here?

[Sarah Bristol]

Yeah, for smaller cities, you know, I think for each community, it's a little bit different. And we are a smaller city, we have to address this issue. I think all communities, you know, no matter what their size, we have to address it. And we can't think that we can just buy people a bus ticket to the next city over. It doesn't work like that. You know, Los Angeles has to take care of its problems, and Grants Pass has to take care of its problems, too.

[Clint Scherf]

Well, I guess I'm thinking in terms of public sentiment. People are divided. So it's not like it's 90% feels one way on an issue and 10% another. But clearly it's almost as if I sense building frustration depending on. Not even just depending on a person's personal politics, but with some of these issues the past five years, some people have turned around on it and decided, you know, the methods that have been tried aren't working. And they seem to be nationally upending a lot of the policies and thought. Thinking of the past five to 10 years, maybe that's too analytical. But do you have any thoughts about that.

[Sarah Bristol]

I think there's a lot of issues that are the root causes of homelessness. And so that's beyond the scope of what Grants Pass can deal with. There are major economic issues at play. There are drug issues, mental health issues, family support. One of the common denominators I find among the homeless people that I encounter is lack of family support or network. And sometimes that's because they burnt bridges, and sometimes it's just because they don't have anyone who can help them them. And as a society, you know, we're going to need to figure some of these big things out. I think we also, you know, just here at the municipal level, it's about where people can go, you know, and where they can be overnight when they don't have another place to be. And those are kind of different issues, I guess. And. And I've just been trying to tackle the location here in Grants Pass. And some people, you know, throw in the what about this? What about that? You know, and. And it's not the city's job to deal with mental health or alcoholism or drug issues, but we can decide whether it's okay for people to be in our parks or our right of ways.

[Clint Scherf]

Was this a defining issue when you were voted into office?

[Sarah Bristol]

You know, the lawsuit had just been decided. The initial decision a couple months before, it was not a reason why I ran for office particularly. We were just starting to see some more people pop up in public spaces than what we had seen in the past.

[Clint Scherf]

What about the thought that, I guess that kind of became the defining issue and not what you expected, you know, when you ran to become mayor? I'm sure that's not what you thought you'd have to deal with the whole time.

[Sarah Bristol]

Yeah, I definitely wanted to deal with issues of just improving our economic outlook and making some improvements to the downtown area and doing more what I would call fun projects than what I've been dealing with. But, you know, it did become the issue. Obviously, Grants Pass was the named plaintiff in that lawsuit, and so we've had to deal with it.

[Clint Scherf]

When you talk about a low barrier shelter, there are shelters. I mean, this is a problem in many communities, but a lot of the homeless people can't meet the requirements to be in a shelter if it requires. Requires that they not use drugs on the premises or they meet certain criteria. And there's divided feelings about whether that's fair or not. I mean, is that an issue here as well?

[Sarah Bristol]

So here in Grants Pass, we have the Gospel rescue mission, and it's Been in place for a long time. And it is a high barrier shelter with quite a few rules, and they're really trying to get people back into the workforce. So it has a lot of job infancy. And I guess what I've been trying to establish here, we do not have a low barrier shelter that's not part of a program. And so we need a place where people can just drop in for a few days when they need help and hopefully get them more resources to continue. But, yeah, we do. The Gospel Rescue mission has all kinds of rules about pets and no smoking, no drugs, no drinking, that. That keeps a number of people away. And I think that they do a good job at what they do for the people who meet those criteria, but we need something else for the other people because it's not fulfilling our entire need.

[Clint Scherf]

And then lastly, when the suit was filed, you weren't mayor yet, but did you agree with fighting it? So the city was always fighting the suit. I mean, you didn't. You didn't agree with the lawsuit, although you thought there's. Sounds like you thought there should be better provisions. But what was your position?

[Sarah Bristol]

You know, I think we need to do two things. One is that we do need to protect public spaces. And that was kind of what the crux of the, you know, the city's appeal was, that we had an injunction placed on us that required us to allow homeless people to sleep in all of our city parks. And I never felt that that was right. I think that city parks are for all the people and recreation. But I do also feel that as a city and as a society, we need to provide places for people to go and resources to help them get out of the situation that they're in.

[Clint Scherf]

And did you say at one point there were homeless people sleeping in 15 parks?

[Sarah Bristol]

Yeah, yeah, we had people in all of our city parks. There were three. Well, there were four of them that I would say had more of a issue than the others. Probably anywhere from 15 to 30 or 40 people on any given night. And then some of the smaller parks would have, you know, three tenths, maybe. Some days there would be zero, some days there'd be six. But we did for four years have people in all of our city parks. And those parks are all in residential neighborhoods. They're near schools. And so, you know, that just wasn't an ideal place for. For people to be. But I do feel strongly that we need to have places where people can be. And here in Oregon, we have. House Bill 3115 requires us to establish Some laws about what's objectively reasonable. And each community gets to decide for itself what's objectively reasonable. And I've heard of some very small communities that maybe just have, you know, a family becomes homeless every now and then and they find a place to put this one group of people or this single individual. And it's a very small problem. And obviously your larger cities are going to have hundreds and thousands of people that they need to try to deal with. And so everybody's approach is going to be a little different. But I think here in Grants Passport we just don't have adequate shelter and we need to realize that that is a need that we have. And people can't address all of their issues with drugs and mental health and getting a job and these things while they're living out in the cold.

[Clint Scherf]

So off the top, I'm looking for just maybe a one paragraph summary of what's most important. If people are totally unfamiliar with the situation, then we'll dig in further.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

So there was a class action lawsuit that came about. A nonprofit law firm From Portland, Northern APAs collaborated I believe with three homeless people. And the details of the lawsuit was that the city was targeting homeless people and not letting them rest in the public parks. There was an injunction in place after the lawsuit went through the court system. The injunction written by, I don't know what the judge's name is off top of my head, the injunction that was in place on the city and the police and fire and everybody involved here. The homeless people could rest within the city parks, publicly owned from 7pm to 7am over the years that devolved into letting them stay longer. The state actually employ, implemented a lot of laws in regards to having them moved. I mean we can go on hours and hours on how the details, details of that, but it, it basically evolved from a class action lawsuit that targeted the city that they were targeting a certain people. The judge and the court system said that the city had to let people rest in the parks at night. And we've been dealing with that for six plus years now.

[Clint Scherf]

When did the homeless situation get out of control here in Grants Pass?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I believe the homeless and my experience from from 2017 on is the homeless. The homeless population in the city here evolved and grew because of this specific lawsuit and the injunction against the city. We had now offered an opportunity for homeless people that were experiencing homelessness, people that didn't want to participate in society to have these big beautiful parks to come and live in.

[Clint Scherf]

So bottom line though, you think the lawsuit to some degree or maybe totally caused a crisis here because it advertised that grants passed now was letting people sleep in the park.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

My personal opinion is that yes, that is the root of the explosion of the homeless population as well as during that same time frame. The state of Oregon rolled back drug loss to make it so Schedule 5 drugs such as heroin and methamphetamines. Fentanyl were a lower class drug and didn't have punishable effects for use paraphernalia minor amounts. So that on top of having a beautiful park to live in, I believe my personal opinion is that that put a big neon sign outside on I5 to our first two exits.

[Clint Scherf]

Do you think the community, I don't know if this is more Republican or Democrat or what the support was initially. Do you feel like the community view of all of this changed over time as they saw the impact of things or they have always felt a certain way, maybe welcoming of the homeless and so on.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

We have a city and depending on which population stats you look at, you're in between 37,000 and 38,000, 39,000. You have an encompassing county that utilizes the city, that works in the city, that travels through the city, that shops in the city, upwards of 85, 88,000, all of those people. So basically we have more rural living people than we have city living people. The rural people are farmers and you know, business people and all sorts. A little bit more rural mentality. We have a high population, population of per se, Republican based, conservative based people. The city has a higher, the city limits has a higher base I believe of more liberal and Democratic people. But when we look at the registered, the, the voters rolls we do show that, excuse me, the Republicans voters roles are stronger and, and, and there's more numbers than the Democrats. I believe the fact that you have, it was in, in everybody's face. You have these beautiful parks that are utilized by the people. In the summertime we have beautiful, beautiful summers. It's very temperate climate. Sometimes we're getting, we get a little hot. But that's only for a couple days a year. People take their kids out. There's activities, youth activities, youth sports that are utilizing these parks. For a few years the public couldn't use the parks because they would be in danger of one on one experiences with homeless people. And it normally wasn't a good experience. So I believe all of that and the increase in the population of the homeless numbers. The community kind of came out this last election and said, you know, we're kind of done with it, we want change we don't know what we want. We don't know. We can't, we can't employ one person to fix it. We know we can't fix it overnight. But we don't like the way it's been going for the last four years. So you know, I, I received about 56%, just 57% of the vote. And most of the people that I talked to said we want change.

[Clint Scherf]

Is that, did most of the people who won run on a platform of changing these things?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Yes, there was a lot of people that ran on, on that same platform. Some of the people, people. It was kind of like a, I guess they looked at it like a multi prong platform. Public safety, the safety of the community was high on the list. Dealing with the homeless was high on the list as well as one of my personal platforms is economic development. I go through the city and you have a number of commercial buildings, commercial sites that are empty. I mean we don't have the business ship here. We should, we used to be back in the 80s and previous. We used to be a logging community. We had a number of mills here. We have i5 just a couple blocks up the road. We have a railroad that goes through here. We got these beautiful rivers. All of our industrial complexes, most of them from the 80s to now have been vacant, have been. So I look at it like if you're experiencing homelessness because you have an economic crisis, you or you can't rent a house because. Because of the affordable housing crisis as everybody's deeming it, because rents are going up and so forth. If you don't have a good job, then as city officials we're hindering you to actually prosper in your own community.

[Clint Scherf]

When you look at the debates and discussions that have happened in grants passed in the past five years or so, how do you see that as it applies to the national discussion over some of these things?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Well, we, I believe that's why, reason why you're here is we actually hit a national platform with our specific lawsuit and injunction case. Our lawsuit went up to the Supreme Court and it was overturned in the Supreme Court. A couple key points that came out of that were the fact that the Supreme Court acknowledged that it should not be the city's or the local government's responsibility to take care of the homeless situation. Second, we have, I believe it is three styles of shelters here in town. One for men, one for women and then one for families and kids. I believe it's not, it's not for the families, it's for the kids. So we do have a shelter that is affordable. I mean, that is in place for every, everybody that's, that's experiencing homelessness. Those shelters do have a religious undertone, a religious, religious aspect to them. Previous of the Supreme Court case, the state, even federal government didn't recognize a shelter that was religious based. They said it wasn't a viable shelter. Well, the Supreme Court, the big thing that came out of that for me from the Supreme Court was that they acknowledged that our shelters, even though they're religious based, are viable shelters for people to utilize. So we have a gospel rescue mission that services men and women, mainly men, that is 75% empty. Empty, not full empty. And it's because it does have higher barriers, meaning that you can't smoke, you can't do drugs on the premises. And they do want to, they want to help you out, they want to help you up and they want to get you into housing and a lifestyle that you can, you can, you know, prosper with. One pushback that we see is a lot of people that, that are trying to help the homeless and that are within. The volunteers within these nonprofits are stating that these people experiencing homelessness can't abide. I'm going to use the wrong terminology. They can't. It's not very helpful. Helpful for the homeless people. People experience homeless to deal with barriers to a shelter, meaning that they don't want to change their ways, they don't want to change their activities, they don't want to change their nature. So that's kind of been like a.

[Clint Scherf]

Sticking point because you can't have people using drugs on site. It's not a safe situation for the other people in the shelter.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Correct. I believe that's, that's a very valid point. I'm going to take that a little bit further is our reach out. Myself and some of the new counselors that came in and got elected, our reach out to the community was the same aspect. Why would our community be unsafe when we're allowed? Because we're allowing all this drug use and everything else. You talk to citizens, they're like, we pay taxes, we go to jobs, we have to take care of our kids, we have to put food on the table. We have responsibilities, we have rules that we got to abide by. But then we have another side of society that's telling us that we have to accommodate this minority by allowing them to do whatever they want because they have bare bar, because these are barriers to their recovery.

[Clint Scherf]

You've had people living in the parks here when at least one shelter is 75% empty.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Correct. That is absolutely a true and correct statement. That's been happening for over six years now and is to this day. If I was to call Brian down at the Gospel Rescue Mission, I'm sure that he says he's probably got 65 beds open.

[Clint Scherf]

So what's happening now as a result of the lawsuit? Are you clearing out the parks?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

So basically what happened is we actually had organization from the community. We had retired folk, we had folk that have been living here and, and living and raising their children and everything here that got together and grouped together, worked with the chief of police to make sure that they were within their law abiding citizens, you know, within the realm of the law, and they worked to get people, people out of the parks. The previous city council that I will be replacing, the previous mayor that I will be replacing, took upon themselves to set forth two separate publicly owned pieces of property, gravel style parking lots with chain link fence around them and allowed the homeless, which they're both currently in operation, to rest in those areas.

[Clint Scherf]

So just moving the camps.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Correct. It was the. I believe the community felt it was a win for them because they had a community action to try to save the parks, to get people out of the park so they could use it for their families and they saw a successful result. And if you talk to any council member or even the mayor of the previous council, I guarantee everyone. I was going to say it's not the most ideal situation. We were just trying to help, we were trying to get, get, get the ball, keep moving down the, down the, down the thing, down the road and, and help help out our community. It ended up a lot of the community didn't agree with what their actions were because it kind of just acerated the problem as, as far as it, as it is at right right now. We're only a week into being sworn in and the controversy around these two encampments is, is huge. It, it actually has got to a point point where it's, it's, we're getting violent agitators disrupting us trying to leave a dinner facility in the middle of downtown. So it's, it's heated and it, it really, it's, it's. I don't know how we're going to go forward, but I believe we're going to coalesce together with all the new counselors and the old counselors where our objective is to kind of court coordinate and prop up some of the non profits in the area here and try to get some more solutions coming up down the road. But you do have a huge community push that says that they want to start have accountability for everybody's actions.

[Clint Scherf]

So is it accurate to say the city has the green light to move homeless people out of the parks, but there's not really a solution yet. It's to what to do with them. Because I don't think sounds like people don't want them just simply dumped nowhere.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Correct. So as far as you know, and, and we've consulted with legal and everything else is there is a law on the books right now that says that we have to. If we disperse people from parks or disperse people home, people experiencing homelessness from a resting area where they're resting, there has to be reasonably objective moat. It's very vague and I apologize if I'm stumbling on my words here, but it's, it's so vague that nobody can define this. This law just came out a little while ago and but basically it says that the city will have to come up with objectable and reasonable accommodations for them or basic or something and not just kick them out. You can't go up and care of them. Correct. You still have to. No, it doesn't state that you have to take care of them. It states that you have to basically be reasonably and objective in how you relocate them. And what that means to me, and what that means I believe to some of the council members that are in, in power at this point right now is that as a community, as local government leaders, we need to try to work with all the community resources that we possibly can, which in our case will be the churches, will be the non profits, will be any community organization, the Elks Club, the wfo, any anybody that wants to help and, and organize and try to get some, something to help these people out. On the other side of the coin, we also feel that there is a lot of people within these encampments that we, these two encampments that we have that are not necessarily the people that need to be helped from our community, that they are outside resources, that they are here either left over or come through recently just to kind of take advantage of our situation.

[Clint Scherf]

Have you noticed since the Supreme Court decision did some people move out, did the problem lessen a little bit or didn't seem to have an impact.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

So just, just coming into office, only been in in a week. I still don't have a lot of the stats that is on our agenda to look forward is actually take all the information that the previous council had gathered over their last four years in regards to the homeless people and how people, how the nonprofits and how all organizations within the community have been dealing with them and do more of our own investigation as well. But we still have to digest that information. With that new agenda coming up, we also need to download a lot of the statistics that we weren't privy to when we were not in office. When you're not in office and you're campaigning for, to, to become into office and to help lead the city, there's only so much information that we can gather. The information we can gather is the information that any public citizen can gather. So once you actually get sworn in, you are a little bit more privy to some more information. You have resources and you have direct contact with the people that you need to get that information from. And we already have on our next, coming up, upcoming agendas for February as well, exploring more avenues and getting more educated on the homeless situation and how what resources we have in our community to help that out with.

[Clint Scherf]

As you mentioned, this is probably my last question. This case got national attention, of course, but what do you see as the implication for other communities? What does this say to them?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Well, you know, I can't speak for other communities, but I look at it like since Grants Pass, Oregon did get national coverage because of their Supreme Court case and the overturn of their previous lawsuit, I believe there's a lot of communities out there nationwide that are going to be following us to see how, how we deal with that and how we protect our community, how we protect the people that are expanding, experiencing homelessness as a, maybe as a model, but or maybe as a failure. I mean, I can't say that we're going to do everything right because we're only human beings. And I'm going to reiterate this. We are volunteered, unpaid people. So all the people that I'm working with so far, again only working with them about a week now, they all have such a deep rooted passion for this community. So I believe everybody's going to do the best they they can within the best of their abilities. But I believe, yeah, we are underneath the national spotlight. And to fully answer your question, yes, I think everybody's going to be looking at us to see what we do and maybe use it as a model, go forward for themselves.

[Cheryl Akisson]

I hope you enjoyed today's podcast and that you will leave us a great review, share it with your friends and subscribe. And check out my other podcast, the Cheryl Akison Podcast, and be sure to look for my book, my bestseller, follow The How Big Pharma Misleads, Obscures and Prevails for some pretty incredible insight into the corrupt medical establishment, how your doctors are taught both in med school and in their continuing medical education classes. That, in my view, and I think the evidence supports this, leads to a lot of corruption inside the industry. Sometimes the doctors themselves don't even understand the motivations behind those who are teaching them or feeding them information. In some respects, some of them are sort of innocent bystanders in a process that even they don't understand or haven't taken the time to fully analyze. But it explains a lot about how we got to the point where there are so many chronic diseases that have not been properly addressed by our very well funded public public health agencies, and why when we go to the doctor so often, they're very happy and anxious to treat our maladies with pills and potions, but seem very disinterested at times in figuring out the root causes, particularly on a population level, so that these things could ideally be prevented in the first place. Let's follow the science. How Big Pharma Misleads, Obscures and Prevails. Do your own research. Make up your own own mind. Think for yourself.