Full Measure After Hours

Episode: Legalized Marijuana—Up in Smoke? (From the Archives)

Host: Sharyl Attkisson
Original Air Date: August 28, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the real-world consequences, challenges, and perspectives of legalized recreational marijuana in Oregon nearly a decade after its implementation. Sharyl Attkisson speaks with two insiders: Mike Getlin, from the Cannabis Industry Alliance of Oregon and Nectar Markets, and Myron Chatowitz, a former small organic marijuana farmer, to reveal why the promised "green rush" has largely failed to materialize for many—despite initial optimism and widespread legalization. Both structural challenges and unexpected negative outcomes shape a complex picture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Landscape of Legalization in Oregon

• Oregon as Early Adopter: One of the first medical marijuana programs, recreational legalized in 2016.
• Promised Outcomes vs. Reality:
  • Many, including advocates, are disappointed.
  • Black market persists; new problems arise (e.g., lack of DUI test for marijuana).
  • Federal illegality complicates operations—mostly cash businesses, limited banking, unfavorable tax rules.

2. The Business Side: Successes and Pain Points

Guest: Mike Getlin, Cannabis Industry Alliance of Oregon & Nectar Markets

Successes

• Legal Market Adoption: Oregon has the highest rates of consumers using legal cannabis (04:21).
• Product Quality: "The diversity and quality of product development in Oregon has been uniquely good." (04:21)
• Public Health: “We get an A for minimizing any public health or safety harms…” (04:21)

Challenges & Failures

• Business Climate: Regulatory structures have failed to adapt, stifling innovation—“Probably get about a C minus for the business climate…” (04:21)
• High Failure Rate: “Ninety plus percent of my friends’ businesses have failed. My farm failed…” (06:04)
• Taxation/Banks: Crippling federal tax burden due to IRS rules (Section 280E), lack of normal expense deductions, high costs for capital (08:48 – 10:22).
• Federal-State Conflict: State legality with ongoing federal prohibition, leading to cash-only businesses, lack of loans, and high taxes (10:47 – 12:24).
• Difficulty Scaling or Innovating: Original hopes for small, creative entrepreneurs have mostly vanished.

Memorable Quotes

• “People overestimate the 'build it and they will come' thing…what ended up happening is we ran headlong into kind of a vice grip between federal taxation rates and 280e, which doesn’t allow us to write off our lease payment…salary…so our federal tax burden is infinitely higher than any other industry in America right now.” — Mike Getlin (08:48)
• “Instead of getting into a business environment where we could use our creativity to come up with compelling craft offerings, we ran into a buzz saw that really chewed up and spat out a lot of really hardworking, quality leaders in this industry.” — Mike Getlin (09:29)

3. National Comparison & Policy Frustrations

• State-by-State Approaches: Lessons from early adopter states (Colorado, Washington, Oregon); mixed results in other states like Ohio vs. California (07:16).
• Federal Inaction: States forced to “look the other way,” creating instability and regulatory conflict (10:47 – 11:38).
• Call for Reform: “State level and federal regulators need to start looking at this like the business that it is…But there’s still so much stigma attached to these products…” — Mike Getlin (12:46)

4. Social and Moral Dimensions

• Parents’ Dilemma: Uncertainty on what to tell kids about pot; marijuana not legal under 21, developmental risks for teens (13:38 – 14:55).
• Neighborhood Impact: Contrary to stereotypes, data shows cannabis stores do not increase crime; they may enhance safety and attract economic development to neglected areas (15:13 – 16:04).
  • “When a cannabis store comes to town, it tends to be the safest place on the block because of all the security requirements we have.” — Mike Getlin (16:04)
  • “You don’t hear a lot of stories about people smoking a joint and then going out and getting in a bar fight…it’s not alcohol.” — Mike Getlin (16:18)

5. The Small Business Experience: Hopes Dashed

Guest: Myron Chatowitz, Founder of Essential Farms (Oregon)

Startup & Bust

• Growth and Optimism: Peaked at 22 staff, $1 million in sales, but never profitable (18:28).
• Destructive Regulation: New mold-testing rules (since rescinded) bankrupted his farm overnight (18:45).
• Regulatory Whiplash: “Do I, first of all, see a way of paying that money back? … What’s going to stop the state or federal from throwing another regulation out of the blue?” (18:45)
• Survival Tactics: Downscaled to a one-person operation; scraping by.

Big vs. Small Players

• Regulatory Capture: Large corporations shape regulations, profit from testing requirements, push out small players (20:10 – 21:04).
  • “We met with all these companies and these companies told me, yes, we work with the regulators. We’re the ones who know how to beat this because we helped write the rules.” — Myron Chatowitz (21:05)
• “Green Rush” Illusion: Too many growers entered, fell in repeated cycles of boom and bust (23:09).
• Profitless Survival: Even major dispensaries with millions in sales see no profit, just “the biggest grind there is.” (24:58)

Memorable Quotes

• “I know people who’ve lost hundreds of millions of dollars. I’ve known companies that did everything right and couldn’t stay in business…” — Myron Chatowitz (24:49)
• “If a business cannot deduct normal expenses and they’re paying taxes on basically their expenses...that means they’re going to be getting their suppliers to lower their prices to below a profit status. And to me, that’s not a successful business.” (25:31)

The Future Outlook

• Consolidation Likely: Only giants will survive—small, “craft” hopefuls being squeezed out (26:27).
• No National Legalization in Sight: “I don’t see national legalization…There’ll be more people who will lose everything…” (26:27)
• Corporate Takeover: Predicts entrance of tobacco, alcohol, and pharmaceuticals, much like with microbreweries (27:44).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You might go in front of one of these cannabis dispensaries and, and walk out and want to go find a donut. But you don’t typically want to walk out and go get in a fight.”
  — Mike Getlin (16:18)
• "There was promise of microbreweries years ago…they’ve all been bought up by the big guys or they’re going out of business. So I am not as optimistic as my friends."
  — Myron Chatowitz (27:44)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------| | 00:41 | Sharyl Attkisson introduces Oregon’s experience | | 03:57 | Mike Getlin: Oregon legalization overview | | 04:21 | Grading Oregon’s success and shortcomings | | 06:04 | The “cost” to entrepreneurs, high business failure| | 08:48 | Tax and regulatory pitfalls | | 10:47 | Federal-state legal friction, banking barriers | | 12:46 | “What needs to happen?” — Regulatory reform call | | 13:38 | Parent’s dilemma—talking to kids about pot | | 15:13 | Cannabis stores’ impact on neighborhoods | | 17:38 | Myron Chatowitz: The small farm failure story | | 18:45 | Regulation & confidence collapse | | 20:10 | Industry capture by large companies | | 23:09 | Oregon’s rollercoaster: Too many, then too few | | 24:58 | “Is this really a successful industry?” | | 27:44 | Big business moving in; microbrewery analogy |

Episode Tone & Style

The tone throughout is factual, investigative, and at times bluntly resigned—tinged with disappointment but not entirely without hope. Both guests speak plainly about the hard realities, far from the hype of “green rush” gold.

Suggested Next Steps

For those interested in more data or visuals, Sharyl recommends watching her Full Measure broadcast from May 4th, which supplements this interview with further context and reporting.