Podcast Summary: Full Measure After Hours

Episode: Media Shift During Trump 2.0 (From the Archives)
Host: Sharyl Attkisson
Guest: Frank Sesno, Media Analyst and Professor at George Washington University
Date: December 4, 2025

Overview

This episode explores significant changes in media dynamics during Donald Trump’s second presidential term ("Trump 2.0"), focusing on how both the media and the administration have shifted their approaches. Veteran investigative reporter Sharyl Attkisson and media analyst Frank Sesno discuss changes in press access, journalistic standards, legal challenges between Trump and the media, and the evolving landscape of news consumption in America.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Media” Is No Longer Singular (02:18)

• Media diversity: Sesno notes a fundamental shift, emphasizing that "media" is now a very plural concept, encompassing not just traditional legacy institutions but also partisan outlets and entirely new entities.
  • Quote: “Media is probably the most plural word in the English language right now.” — Frank Sesno (02:21)
• Access divides: Conservative and right-wing media now have unprecedented access, while traditional (legacy) outlets find themselves increasingly restricted.

2. How Media Treats Trump in His Second Term (03:03)

• Less overt antagonism: Attkisson observes fewer high-profile media mistakes and less visible outrage compared to Trump’s first term. Sesno attributes this to a voter-driven message that media should show more restraint and seriousness while still holding power accountable.
  • Quote: "The amount of groaning, moaning, eye rolling, finger pointing, shock, outrage is way down… I think that in this second Trump administration, some media are more restrained because they've learned that lesson." — Frank Sesno (03:25)

3. Changing Press Access at the White House (06:04)

• Breaking tradition: Trump has upended old press room hierarchies, inviting new, often non-traditional outlets into key positions.
• Positive and negative impacts: While diversification reflects the changing media environment, Sesno is wary of muddying the lines between journalism and partisan media.
  • Quote: “Anybody with a camera or a microphone is a member of the media… But what journalists do is very particular. And what journalists do, or should do, is hold everyone in power to account…” — Frank Sesno (06:39)
• On seating arrangements: Sesno reflects on former traditions that gave legacy outlets front-row access, noting these arrangements no longer reflect where Americans actually get their news.
  • Quote: “If you're going to put a front seat in the White House today based on that... Joe Rogan would be sitting up front.” — Frank Sesno (11:04)

4. The Blurring of Reporting and Opinion (08:33)

• Attkisson raises the issue of CNN correspondents acting as “anti-Trump,” illustrating the increasing difficulty in distinguishing reporters from opinionators.
• Sesno criticizes the trend, stating that White House correspondents should focus on accountability, not confrontation.

5. The White House's Role in Shaping Narratives (09:21)

• Both acknowledge how special access and seating fostered a sense of exclusivity, but also enabled administrations to control journalists and shape public narratives.
  • Quote: “By us getting that special access, we’re kind of allowing them to control the narrative.” — Sharyl Attkisson (09:50)
• Sesno recounts old norms, emphasizing a once-clear separation between managing news and reporting news.

6. Legal Challenges: Lawsuits, Settlements, and the Chilling Effect (11:17)

• Trend: Trump and other political figures (e.g., RFK Jr.) have increasingly turned to litigation against media organizations—sometimes resulting in substantial settlements.
• Press freedom at stake: Sesno is “very concerned” about the fine line between holding media accountable and outright intimidation that chills legitimate reporting.
  • Quote: "It’s a very fine line often between accountability and intimidation. We have a free press and free speech in this country." — Frank Sesno (11:35)
• ABC settlement critique: Sesno views ABC’s payment to Trump over George Stephanopoulos’ interview as an overreaction, advocating for internal accountability rather than financial settlements that could “break the back” of smaller outlets.
  • Quote: "I don't think that payment should have been made by ABC." — Frank Sesno (14:41)

7. Journalistic Responsibility and Standards (15:16)

• Positive consequence: Lawsuits may prompt news organizations to be more rigorous and transparent, which Sesno considers a potential “silver lining.”
  • Quote: "If some of these lawsuits are prompting news organizations to say, yipes, we better put things in place so that we can really be sure that we're right about this, maybe that's the silver lining." — Frank Sesno (16:30)
• Attkisson references the CBS 60 Minutes/Kamala Harris interview controversy as a case study in editing ethics and transparency, with Sesno urging for the full release of interviews and maximum openness.

8. Free Press, Government Access, and Accountability (18:15)

• Worries about transparency: Sesno warns that new practices—like limiting questions or defaulting to releasing information only on social platforms like X (Twitter)—are harmful to public oversight.
  • Quote: “The idea of accessibility, accountability, transparency is fundamental to what we are as a society… putting that in danger…runs counter to the traditions of our national culture and our history.” — Frank Sesno (19:32)

9. The Future of Media (20:41)

• Sesno envisions an even more fragmented landscape with more voices, partisanship, and personal responsibility for news literacy.
  • Quote: “People are going to need to understand that they are their own executive producer, producers and their own executive editors, and they are responsible for the information that they consume… Problem is, potato chips are more plentiful and tasty than broccoli a lot of the time. But we need it. We need both.” — Frank Sesno (21:09)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the transformation of media:
  “Media is probably the most plural word in the English language right now.” — Frank Sesno (02:21)
• On changes since Trump’s first term:
  “Some media are more restrained because they've learned that lesson, because there was a message... that more attention and respect needs to be paid even as the tough questions are asked.” — Frank Sesno (03:58)
• On risk of chilling effect:
  “If it prompts people in news organizations to lose their courage to report stories that need to be reported that might be unpopular, that would be a very bad thing.” — Frank Sesno (15:25)
• On transparency and public access:
  “The idea of...accessibility, accountability, transparency is fundamental to what we are as a society...putting that in danger...is a very dangerous thing and really runs counter to the traditions of our national culture and our history.” — Frank Sesno (19:32)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 02:18 — What is "the media" today? The pluralization and fragmentation of news sources.
• 03:03 — Changes in tone and approach from press towards Trump in his second term.
• 06:04 — Trump administration’s reshaping of White House press access.
• 11:17 — Lawsuits from Trump against media; danger of intimidation vs. accountability.
• 14:36 — ABC’s Stephanopoulos settlement case.
• 16:38 — CBS 60 Minutes editing controversy and media standards.
• 18:27 — Restriction of press accessibility and the move to “information by edict” (i.e., official channels using just X for updates).
• 20:41 — Predictions and challenges for the media landscape’s future.

Tone

The conversation is candid, reflective, and deeply informed, blending professional history (both Attkisson and Sesno are veteran reporters) with serious concern over the direction of both media and politics. Both speakers maintain a nonpartisan, analytical approach.

Conclusion

The episode provides a rich look at the shifting ground where politics, law, and journalism meet in Trump’s second administration. Key takeaways involve the pluralization of news, the risks and responsibilities of expanded press access, and the crucial importance of maintaining press freedom and transparency—even as both legal pressures and new communication strategies complicate the landscape. Sesno's ultimate message: As consumers, citizens have an increasingly significant role in discerning what is healthy, accurate, and nourishing information in a media ecosystem overflowing with both “potato chips” and “broccoli.”