After Hours: Solar Farms vs. Food Farms (From the Archives)

Summary

Full Measure After Hours: Solar Farms vs. Food Farms

Host: Cheryl Akison
Episode: After Hours: Solar Farms vs. Food Farms (From the Archives)
Release Date: May 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Full Measure After Hours, host Cheryl Akison delves into the burgeoning trend of converting agricultural land into solar and wind farms. As the United States accelerates its transition to green energy, significant unintended consequences have emerged, particularly concerning food production and farmland preservation. This episode explores the economic and environmental ramifications of this shift, featuring insightful interviews with key stakeholders from Wisconsin.

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The Green Energy Push and Its Consequences

Cheryl Akison sets the stage by highlighting the aggressive push towards renewable energy sources, largely driven by government incentives and taxpayer-funded subsidies. While the intent is to mitigate climate change, this rapid transition has led to unexpected challenges:

• Energy Capacity Shortfalls: Both the U.S. and Europe face inadequate green energy infrastructure, resulting in skyrocketing energy prices, shortages, rationing, and occasional blackouts.

• Land Use Conflicts: Vast expanses of farmland are being repurposed for solar and wind farms, leading to concerns about the long-term impact on food production.

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Congressman Tom Tiffany on Policy and Agriculture

One of the episode's focal points is an interview with Wisconsin Congressman Tom Tiffany, who articulates the crux of the issue:

[03:19] "Local farmer in the district who said that I can get paid up to $1,000 an acre to convert my farm into solar or wind production rather than growing food. And so it raised just a lot of questions and we've been following up since."

Tiffany explains that standard agricultural leases range from $150 to $200 per acre, whereas renewable energy developers offer up to $1,000 per acre, making it economically unfeasible for farmers to decline these lucrative offers. He attributes this disparity to substantial federal subsidies, sometimes amounting to $50,000 per acre, which distort market incentives.

[05:25] "Typical rents are 150 to $200 an acre for agricultural land. For somebody that's producing, you know, corn, soybeans, whatever the crop may be, they're now being offered $1,000 an acre. And the reason these wind and solar developers can offer $1,000 an acre is there's these rich subsidies that are coming from the federal government incentivizing this."

Tiffany expresses concern over the lack of thorough planning, emphasizing that the current incentives favor intermittent energy sources without sufficient consideration for their long-term sustainability and impact on vital agricultural land.

[08:32] "So let's say somewhere in the country that it's out in the desert or wherever you can still build these facilities. You just can't build it on productive agricultural land as we're seeing in the Midwest."

Despite introducing legislation to address these issues, Tiffany remains skeptical about its passage under the current congressional leadership, specifically citing Speaker Nancy Pelosi's lack of support.

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Voices from the Ground: Landowner Perspectives

Tara Vaspi: Personal and Community Impacts

Tara Vaspi, a Wisconsin landowner, provides a personal account of the adverse effects of nearby solar farms:

[09:46] "My concern is that the drainage is going to just be eliminated which is really going to impact the future of this property... There's nothing I can do about it." ([09:46])

Vaspi highlights issues such as disrupted water drainage systems and the permanence of solar installations, which negate promises of reverting land back to agricultural use. She criticizes the approach of solar companies, like Invenergy, for deploying large-scale projects without adequate community consultation or regulatory oversight.

[10:49] "It's literally the story that's happening over and over and over. And communities are not ready for this. They don't have setbacks, they don't have ordinances, they don't have, you know, there's just not ready to deal with these." ([10:49])

Her broader concerns extend to national food security, questioning the sustainability of prioritizing renewable energy over maintaining and expanding food production capabilities.

Elizabeth Groves: Preserving Prime Agricultural Land

Elizabeth Groves, another Wisconsin landowner, echoes similar sentiments, focusing on the classification and value of prime agricultural land:

[16:28] "My main concern is that the majority of this area that they're wanting to put the solar power installations is prime agricultural land... it's an actual USDA classification that looks at the soil, that looks at the environment, and they give it that designation based on the chemical and physical aspects of the area and its ability to have high yield food production." ([16:28])

Groves emphasizes the alarming trend of farmland loss, citing USDA reports indicating a steady decline in operational farms and acreage. She underscores the critical timing, especially amid global food shortages exacerbated by geopolitical tensions such as the conflict in Ukraine.

[18:00] "With what we've seen over the last two years with food shortages and supply chain issues and being told, you know, by our higher levels of government that that could possibly get worse with what's happening in Ukraine, it just doesn't seem like a good solution to take some of our most productive agricultural lands, not even just in Wisconsin, but, you know, throughout the entire Midwest and the country, out of production." ([18:00])

Her advocacy calls for a reassessment of land use policies to prioritize food production over less reliable and more resource-intensive energy sources.

Bill Polkinghorne: Economic Realities Faced by Farmers

Former farmer Bill Polkinghorne shares his personal journey from agriculture to leasing his land for solar energy:

[22:08] "This way they're gonna have the farm, there's gonna be a good income. It'll buy them a real nice Christmas present, each one of them every year." ([22:08])

Polkinghorne illustrates the economic pressures that drive farmers to accept high-paying solar leases despite their commitment to farming. While he acknowledges the financial relief these deals provide, he remains cautiously optimistic about the overall impact on national food supplies, believing that the current scale of land conversion is manageable but recognizing the potential for future escalation.

[24:23] "In the farm economy there's a surplus. In every. Everything there is, everything growing or raised or whatever, there's a surplus. And it's a matter of how our government has been treating that surplus. I'm not worried about our country ever going short of food." ([24:23])

However, he also notes operational challenges faced during the development of solar projects, such as delays caused by international supply chain issues.

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Policy Implications and Future Directions

The episode underscores the urgent need for policy reevaluation to balance the pursuit of renewable energy with the preservation of agricultural land. Key takeaways include:

• Subsidy Reevaluation: Current federal subsidies heavily favor renewable energy projects, making them economically superior to traditional farming leases. Revising these incentives could restore a more equitable playing field for farmers.

• Land Use Regulations: Implementing stringent criteria for land conversion can prevent the loss of prime agricultural land and ensure that renewable energy projects are situated in less productive areas.

• Sustainable Energy Planning: Developing comprehensive energy infrastructure that accounts for capacity, reliability, and long-term sustainability is crucial to avoid the pitfalls of restricted energy sources.

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Conclusion

Cheryl Akison concludes the episode by emphasizing the complexity of the green energy transition and its multifaceted impact on society. She invites listeners to engage with the full investigative report airing on January 22, 2023 and encourages further exploration of the topic through the Full Measure News platform.

[25:12] "There's a lot more to the story, plus some amazing scenics from Wisconsin that you can see in my report Sunday on full measure." ([25:12])

The episode serves as a crucial examination of the delicate balance between advancing renewable energy and safeguarding the agricultural foundations essential for national and global food security.

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Additional Resources

• Full Measure News: For a replay of the investigative report, visit FullMeasure.News and search for "solar."
• Supporting Independent Journalism: Visit cherylakkisson.com to explore products that support independent reporting.

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**Subscribe to Full Measure After Hours and stay informed on critical issues shaping our world. Share this episode with friends and leave a review to support ongoing investigative journalism.

Transcript

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[Cheryl Akison]

That's stamps.com audio hi everybody, Cheryl Achison here. I hope you enjoy this special from the Archives edition of Full Measure After Hours. Hi everybody, Cheryl Achison here. Welcome to another edition of Full Measure After Hours. Today we're looking at the green energy trend of replacing food farms with solar farms. I think it's fair to say at this point that in our zeal to transition to green energy when it wouldn't happen on its own, at least on this timetable based on market forces so government taxpayer money is spent, regulations are made to encourage it. Well, there are all kinds of unintended consequences happening. I've been reporting on one big one here and in Europe. We were so anxious to make the transition to green energy that we did so many people think before we had enough green energy capacity and delivery systems to handle the demand which has left us short. Europe's even worse than here. Skyrocketing prices are a result, shortages, rationing and even blackouts. Something else that's happening is land across this country is being gobbled up for solar and wind farms. They take up a lot of space. Sometimes the land that's being gobbled up is farmland that used to grow food and raise livestock. And some see this as a big problem down the road. That's the topic of my cover story investigation this week on Full Measure. That will be Sunday, January 22, 2023. In this podcast, we're going to hear from several people in the discussion who are key to it. In Wisconsin, where I visited for the story. First, there is the congressman from Wisconsin, Tom Tiffany, explaining what he sees as the problem and I think that's a pretty good setup for the discussion. One note, in this interview excerpt, you're going to hear Congressman Tiffany refer to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who's the Democrat that was in charge of Congress, but no more. I interviewed Tiffany while researching the story prior to Republicans taking over Congress.

[Tom Tiffany]

Local farmer in the district who said that I can get paid up to $1,000 an acre to convert my farm into solar or wind production rather than growing food. And so it raised just a lot of questions and we've been following up since.

[Interviewer]

Is this happening around the state and around the country?

[Tom Tiffany]

It is happening around the country and it's happening in the state of Wisconsin. And there's a lot of. And one of the concerns that we're bringing forward is are we going to this renewable energy, which is intermittent, is only on 20 to 25% of the time and giving up food production as a result of it. Because if you pay $1,000 an acre, a developer for putting wind or solar into a piece of land, they cannot, farmers cannot pay those type of rents. Rents are usually $150, $200 an acre. And so it really squeezes out productive agriculture.

[Interviewer]

Has somebody thought about, do you think, in the big picture, the overall impact if farmers around the country get so much more money to use their land or to sell their land so it can be used for green energy versus growing food?

[Tom Tiffany]

Yeah, I don't think it's been well thought out. And I think you see that in this so called inflation Reduction act, which cements those subsidies into the foreseeable future. I think they didn't really think about this thoroughly. The incentives are to move towards this intermittent energy, but what's going to happen to our land? And when you look at, I mean, crop production this year is going to be down. Based on USDA estimates that we're seeing, and we're seeing food shortages around the world, we may be headed in a very bad place. And that's why I've introduced legislation to not incentivize this on productive agricultural land.

[Interviewer]

Can you explain why it can be so profitable to use agriculture land for green energy? It has to do with them getting extra money from the government or from taxpayers. Right?

[Tom Tiffany]

Yeah. Typical rents are 150 to $200 an acre for agricultural land. For somebody that's producing, you know, corn, soybeans, whatever the crop may be, they're now being offered $1,000 an acre. And the reason these wind and solar developers can offer $1,000 an acre is there's these Rich subsidies that are coming from the federal government incentivizing this. It could be as much as $50,000 an acre that they can get via these subsidies from the federal government. That's what's driving this.

[Interviewer]

So I guess the position is that's an unfair playing field where the food growers cannot possibly compete with the subsidized green energy.

[Tom Tiffany]

Yeah, farmers can't compete. And for many farmers, they're like, I'd be a fool not to accept $1,000 an acre on a contract for 25 years when I'm only getting $200 an. And so we've really, as a result of federal government action, we've mismatched the incentives here. That's why we introduced a bill that said you can build these on productive agricultural land, but you should not get the subsidies.

[Interviewer]

More on the bill in just a moment, but have you been able to track how much land in your state has been swallowed up by wind and solar versus the farms?

[Tom Tiffany]

Yeah, it's been tens of thousands of acres. Now, we're not to the same point like some of our neighbors are, Minnesota, Iowa, places like that, but we are headed in that direction. And we have a public service commission in Wisconsin that is really green lighting all these projects. They're not hitting the brakes at all. They're saying, yep, let's keep doing them. And there's tens of thousands of acres that are on the drawing board currently in Wisconsin of productive agricultural land that is slated to be converted.

[Interviewer]

Does the bill that you introduced, first of all, you can describe it again, but does it stand any chance of passing?

[Tom Tiffany]

I doubt that it's going to go anywhere here in this Congress. Speaker Pelosi, with the bills that I've put forward, she's not advanced any of them to committee, but I'm hoping next session of Congress that we can get a hearing on this and begin to talk. Tell this story about green energy. Is it displacing productive agriculture and are we going to reduce our food supply as a result of that?

[Interviewer]

Is there anything the state can do? Has there been a state proposal to. I don't know if you would outlaw it or regulate it.

[Tom Tiffany]

Yeah, I think this. Absolutely. The state could take action. Governor Evers or the Public Service Commission, they could act on this and say we're not going to do this. And at a minimum, they should at least say, we're not going to put this on productive agricultural land. I mean, Wisconsin, great agriculture state, we grow food for the world and we should continue to do that. Let's make sure at a minimum, even if we're, if they are agreeing that we should build some wind and solar facilities, don't put them on agricultural land.

[Interviewer]

And then you mentioned what the bill would do. The bill that you propose that could pass next time. Can you summarize that again?

[Tom Tiffany]

Yeah, the PhRMA act, what it does is it says you can build these facilities but you don't get the subsidies if you're siting them on productive agricultural land. So let's say somewhere in the country that it's out in the desert or wherever you can still build these facilities. You just can't build it on productive agricultural land as we're seeing in the Midwest. And I think as we see food shortages looming around the world, that we need to be very cognizant of making sure that we don't take productive agricultural land out of production. To me, that is the highest and most important public policy that we can implement is making sure that our people are fed.

[Cheryl Akison]

Congressman Tiffany's proposal, by the way, is dead now that a new Congress has begun and the efforts will have to start all over again. But now with that background, here's Tara Vaspi. She owns five acres of a family homestead in Wisconsin, soon to be surrounded on three sides by a solar farm.

[Interviewer]

What are your concerns? First from a personal level, living here.

[Tara Vaspi]

Personally, you know, obviously, you know, aesthetics, but that's not my major concern. My major concern for this property is that we have a high water table here and there are just miles and miles and miles of drain tiles that are currently draining these fields. And invenergy has said they're just going to punch through them which kind of is, which will impact this property because whenever there's a high rain event I end up with water in my basement. And so my concern is that the drainage is going to just be eliminated which is really going to impact the future of this property. And you know, I, we are very concerned that there will be, you know, 100 year old fieldstone basement and it could potentially have water in it forever. And that's, you know, there's nothing I can do about it.

[Interviewer]

So, so then beyond the people that are impacted like you, because you're living right next to it in the big picture because this is happening in other states too. By the way, what are some of your big picture thoughts about this?

[Tara Vaspi]

I actually have been contacted by a lot of folks from other states because they've seen me and other media outlets and it's, the story is the same and I think that's what's frustrating is that these companies, these merchant utilities, like Invenergy, they come into a community under, we call it under the COVID of darkness. But legally, they just come in, they talk to farmers, they lease the land, and then, and then they announce to the community, oh, by the way, you're the lucky winner of this giant solar farm and there's nothing you can do about it. So. And that's. It's literally the story that's happening over and over and over. And communities are not ready for this. They're not. They don't have setbacks, they don't have ordinances, they don't have, you know, there's. They're just not ready to deal with these.

[Interviewer]

Do you think this may not be your area of expertise. It's fine if not. But do you think from a standpoint of food supply, people should be concerned?

[Tara Vaspi]

I do, actually. That's something that we, actually, my neighbors and I have been talking about since we. We've been fighting that. We fought it for two years until April when it was approved. And that was one of the concerns even then. That was before the pandemic. Right. Is, well, what happens when there's. You're eliminating all this grain, you know, and what about food shortages? And now with everything globally going on. Yeah, it is a concern for those of us who are looking at it maybe at a bigger picture. And, you know, the other real concern I think that we all have is when you see these, they tell you that this is going to go back to farmland when it's decommissioned in 30 years or 50 years or whatever it is. The honest reality is once you've done, you know, I did two years of researching these things with my neighbors, and it's never going to go back. Those of us who have lived out here and understand the land and it will never go back to farmland. Nobody's going to spend tens of millions of dollars to replace the drain tiles. You're lucky if you can find a farmer to lease it in 30 years. Right. And none of these have ever been decommissioned in the US because they're so new. So they can say that all these things are going to happen. And yeah, it's going to go back to agriculture and it's going to be better soil than it was before. But no one knows. So they're just kind of hoping and praying, I think, and just throwing it out there and making promises that I don't think are going to be kept.

[Interviewer]

I didn't know Wisconsin was so sunny. Is this a great place for solar Panels?

[Tara Vaspi]

No, no, actually, curiously, some counterparts of mine who are fighting another project in Columbia county, it's with Samsung Solar, that one's called Langdon Mills. The folks at Samsung, Samsung actually admitted them that Wisconsin is mediocre for, for solar developed for solar plants and, and solar farming as it were. So it's a mediocre location. And they honestly said it's really just.

[Interviewer]

About money because they can make money based on the subsidies they're getting from taxpayers.

[Tara Vaspi]

Exactly. And that's. There's another 8,000 acre project going up in Stevens Point with another. And they just come in and they're taking advantage of the subsidies and not really. I continue to say, look, we're destroying the environment in order to save it. And it doesn't really make any sense. But it's hard to explain that to people who live in urban centers who are like, oh my God, we have to do this, we have to do this. And I'm like, we could all just put solar panels on our houses. But the problem is with that is that utility companies don't make money and they don't want us to. So it really. In fact in Milwaukee a few years ago there was a company wanted to work with the city of Milwaukee to develop, you know, like a few acres or acres, but on rooftops of city owned properties. And the utilities went to the PSC and said they can't do that because we're the only ones who can produce energy. And the PSC agreed with them.

[Cheryl Akison]

When we continue, you're going to hear from two more landowners, including a farmer who took the solar deal.

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[Cheryl Akison]

We continue now with Wisconsin landowner Elizabeth Groves.

[Interviewer]

In really simple terms, for people who aren't familiar with what's going on here, could you just give a paragraph overview of what's happening in terms of the solar projects going on farmland?

[Elizabeth Groves]

The basic overview is that there is an out of state company invenergy that is looking at putting in a 300 megawatt solar installation in Columbia county that is roughly going to cover about 4,000 acres. The actual Project area that they are permitting is around 10,000 acres. And that's about. Well, they're continuing to permit or continue to seek leases outside of that. So we know that there's probably plans for expansion on that as well.

[Interviewer]

So from a state level, the solar power industry has discovered Wisconsin.

[Elizabeth Groves]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And its subsidies, I guess.

[Elizabeth Groves]

Yes, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

What are your concerns?

[Elizabeth Groves]

My main concern is that the majority of this area that they're wanting to put the solar power installations is prime agricultural land. So when we talk about prime agricultural land, it's not just a term, you know, that we slap on the end of it, you know, because we're super proud of our land. It's that it's an actual USDA classification that looks at the soil, that looks at the environment, and they give it that designation based on the chemical and physical aspects of the area and its ability to have high yield food production.

[Interviewer]

What's your concern about farmland being used for another purpose that can help people make quite a bit of money?

[Elizabeth Groves]

I would say my biggest concern is that over the years we've seen a continual loss in farmland that's been a downward trend for several years. The USDA does a report every year where they talk about how many land is currently in farms in the United states. And in 2021, we lost about 7,000 farms, about 1.3 million acres of farmland. So with what we've seen over the last two years with food shortages and supply chain issues and being told, you know, by our higher levels of government that that could possibly get worse with what's happening in Ukraine, it just doesn't seem like a good solution to take some of our most productive agricultural lands, not even just in Wisconsin, but, you know, throughout the entire Midwest and the country, out of production.

[Interviewer]

And are you, do you work outside the home? Are you a mom? Tell me a little bit about what piques your interest about this.

[Elizabeth Groves]

Well, my background is that farming is in my blood. My grandparents were dairy farmers. My dad was a dairy farmer until he was drafted to go serve in the military in Vietnam and then they had to end up selling the family farm. But I've always loved agriculture. I've always loved farming. My dream ever since I was a little girl was to own my own farm one day. And so we have a small farm not too far from here and we are hoping to be first generation beef farmers. I say we have a micro beef operation right now and we're looking to hopefully expand that.

[Interviewer]

So do you have a family? We do, yes.

[Elizabeth Groves]

Yes, we have four children.

[Interviewer]

Four children do you think this is going to change your plans when you want to become a beef farm?

[Elizabeth Groves]

It definitely could have an impact on it. And that's a big issue that we're seeing too, is that a lot of farmers in our area and throughout the state actually lease a majority of their, the acreage that they, that they farm. And so with the solar companies coming in and offering farmers upwards of fifteen hundred dollars an acre a year for these leases, there's no way that a small farmer like myself and many other people can compete with those prices. The average cost of cropland rental is anywhere from 2 to $300 an acre in our area.

[Interviewer]

So that's huge. Say that again. Compare the price that you pay to farm it versus what they'll pay.

[Elizabeth Groves]

Yeah. So the average cost to rent farmland in our area cropland is anywhere from two to $300. And these solar companies are coming in and offering farmers up to 1500 dollars an acre to lease.

[Interviewer]

Do you see that it's hard for the farmers to turn that, it's hard for the landowners to turn that down?

[Elizabeth Groves]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, farming and farmers have been struggling for many years and especially in the last two years when we've seen overhead and operational costs just go through the roof. And so I can understand that a lot of farmers are looking at this as a solution to some of those financial issues.

[Interviewer]

And the irony is they're getting paid with your tax money to basically replace the farmland with solar panels.

[Elizabeth Groves]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

Is there anything you can do to regular get it regulated or are you looking to get it stopped? Like, what is your hope?

[Elizabeth Groves]

Our hope is that I really think that there needs to be kind of a pause, that we need to take a step back and really look at the overall picture and what's happening and decide if this is really the best course of action, if we really want to use our prime agricultural land for a less reliable, more expensive source of energy. That really is questionable on whether or not it's even renewable or not. When you look at the mining and everything that goes into manufacturing these panels and the batteries.

[Cheryl Akison]

Last but not least, we hear from farmer, or I guess I should say former farmer Bill Polkinghorne.

[Bill Polkinghorne]

My dad bought the farm in 65 and I just graduated and I came farming with him. And then I went on my own for three years at my father in law's because he had passed away and I was off the farm for 11 years and then my dad had come down with cancer and I decided to come back to the farm until 2002, I hurt my back and things weren't getting better for several months later. So that's when the wife and I made a decision. The cows needed to go. And then after that we just rented the land out until the solar came.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about what time period the solar came and did a company approach you or did you hear about it? How did that happen?

[Bill Polkinghorne]

Yes, it was, oh, 2017 when they first approached, asked us interested in solar. And I knew nothing about solar other than you see on a house or something that there'd be a panel or two. But this was going to be a solar farm and no interest. But then they keep coming back to convince you. And all of a sudden my wife and I decide, you know, we're not going to live forever. When we die, what happens to the farm? Kids are going to end up selling it. Government gets, you know, how much and what's left over time to. Kids split it five ways. There's not much left there. This way they're gonna have the farm, there's gonna be a good income. It'll buy them a real nice Christmas present, each one of them every year. So we decide, yep, this is it.

[Interviewer]

What's the basic difference per acre if you're leasing it? You can get a couple hundred bucks per, per acre if you're leasing it for food. Farming versus solar.

[Bill Polkinghorne]

We had a good renter, he paid real good money, but solar pays like two and a half times of what he couldn't afford. And at the time that we took on the solar, the farm economy was a lot worse than what it is now. How much longer my renter could afford to pay this rent and if he couldn't be even lower income.

[Interviewer]

So it almost is like a no brainer. I totally see why you did it. Do you? If you're looking at it from the outside, are you concerned about farmland though being bought out or used up or leased by replaced by solar and wind on a big scale? I'm talking about across the country.

[Bill Polkinghorne]

Well, in the farm economy there's a surplus. In every. Everything there is, everything growing or raised or whatever, there's a surplus. And it's a matter of how our government has been treating that surplus. I'm not worried about our country ever going short of food. Maybe they won't be able to export as much as they are. But no, it's, it's a very small percentage of land going into these projects. It's not going to hurt the total output.

[Interviewer]

Is there anything else people should know about this? You did a great job Just seeing if there's something else you wanted to say that I didn't ask you about.

[Bill Polkinghorne]

My father in law told me before he died you don't want to be the first one to try something new, but you don't want to be the last one neither. I was one of the first ones. Sorry.

[Interviewer]

So what year was that that you.

[Bill Polkinghorne]

Said yes, yes to the solar 2018.

[Interviewer]

How's it working out?

[Bill Polkinghorne]

There's been struggles. We finally it was built in two phases this particular project. Like 900 acres in each project or each phase? Just last December, phase one got into full production. Phase two basically done constructing except for actually putting the panels on because there's an import problem there. They can't get them in the country right now.

[Interviewer]

But you're still making your rent. They're still paying your rent the whole time, right?

[Bill Polkinghorne]

Yes, they are. Yeah.

[Cheryl Akison]

There's a lot more to the story, plus some amazing scenics from Wisconsin that you can see in my report Sunday on full measure. That's January 22nd. If you're listening to this podcast after January 22nd, 2023, you can always catch the replay by going to FullMeasure News. The way the search bar functions at FullMeasure News is not quite right, but if you click into any page you will then see the little search magnifying glass and you can put in the word solar in the search bar. You should be able to find this story. Thanks for listening. I hope that you will subscribe to this podcast and share it with your friends and leave a great review. You can also check out my other podcast, the Cheryl Akison Podcast. And remember, if you're interested in supporting independent journalism, be sure and visit cherylakkisson.com and click the store tab for great Products with Smart Slogans for Independent Thinkers. With proceeds benefiting independent reporting. Do your own research, make up your own mind, think for yourself.