Full Measure After Hours – "UnReal Estate"

Host: Sharyl Attkisson
Date: October 16, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Sharyl Attkisson delves into the ramifications of a landmark class-action lawsuit against the National Association of Realtors (NAR) that is dramatically shifting how Americans buy and sell homes. The episode explores the longstanding real estate commission system, the lack of consumer awareness about negotiability, and how new legal and market changes are upending the industry. Central to the discussion is an interview with Jared Bright, a named plaintiff in the lawsuit that triggered these sweeping reforms.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Background of the Lawsuit and Real Estate Commission System

• The Traditional Model:
  For decades, it was taken for granted that sellers pay a 6% commission—split evenly between buyer’s and seller’s agents. Most Americans did not realize these rates were negotiable or that sellers paid both agents’ fees.
  (00:33–01:15)

• The Landmark Suit:
  The class-action lawsuit, often called the "NAR lawsuit," was officially titled "Sitzer/Burnett." Its result exposed conflicts of interest in real estate and sparked a nationwide conversation about transparency and fairness.
  (01:15–02:38)

  “A landmark class action lawsuit that you may not have heard about will impact you if you buy or sell a house.”
  — Sharyl Attkisson (00:33)

2. The Illusion of Negotiability

• Not as Negotiable as Portrayed:
  Although realtors claim commissions have always been negotiable, Jared Bright and others rarely saw real negotiation happen in practice.
  (03:20–03:52)

  “There are real estate professionals out there that have openly said, you can negotiate up but don't negotiate down.”
  — Jared Bright (04:16)

• Consumer Experience:
  Even when Bright thought he'd received a discount (down to 5.5%), trial paperwork later proved he actually paid the full 6%.
  (05:43–07:22)

  “No one, no one from the buyer side ever did anything for me. Sure, they brought a person to look at my house, but that’s the point of real estate...I was confused.”
  — Jared Bright (05:43)

3. Impact of Technology and the Internet

• Changing the Game:
  With apps and services like Zillow, more buyers do their own legwork, causing many to question what value realtors actually provide relative to their commission.
  (04:31–05:43)

• Self-Service Options:
  Technology now allows buyers and renters to tour homes unaccompanied, and sellers to list directly on real estate platforms.
  (09:26–11:42)

4. Ethical Issues and Industry Structure

• Lack of Competition:
  Bright highlighted the lack of competition, especially when both agents (buyer and seller) work for the same brokerage parent company.
  (09:16–09:26)

  “Part of this case is pointing out that there isn’t or hasn’t been competition in the past.”
  — Jared Bright (09:26)

• Transparency and Trust:
  Many sellers don't realize exactly who they're paying or what they’re getting in return; routine paperwork often obscures actual commission rates.
  (06:24–07:22)

  “If you don't actually look at what you're signing number for number, that it could be wrong. And that came from a system that was so easily pushing out paperwork that was all the same three and three.”
  — Jared Bright (11:46)

5. The Lawsuit’s Journey and Trial Moments

• Discovery of Over-Payment:
  One of the trial’s pivotal moments occurred the night before Bright’s testimony, when his attorney, Michael Ketchmark, discovered he paid 6% instead of 5.5%. The realization caused a gasp among jurors, underscoring the widespread confusion consumers face.
  (11:46–14:53)

  “He [Ketchmark] called me at midnight and was like, hey, did you really pay six or five and a half percent? … I said, stupid. I feel stupid. And I said that on the stand. And that's when one of the jurors gasped.”
  — Jared Bright (13:06)

• Verdict:
  The jury found clearly in favor of the plaintiffs, awarding them damages and catalyzing immediate industry change.
  (16:34–16:45)

6. What Has Changed Since the Verdict

• Negotiation is Now Front and Center:
  Upfront paperwork and explicit commission discussions empower consumers to negotiate rates.
  (17:01–19:39)

  “Now because of the competition and the negotiation, there’s some up, upfront paperwork ... that's our opportunity to negotiate these commissions.”
  — Jared Bright (17:08)

• A Service Model Shift:
  The verdict paves the way for variable service levels at varying price points, further breaking the “flat fee” mold. Real estate agents and consumers are adapting, and agents may even develop subscription-style service menus.
  (17:01–19:39)

7. Advice for Buyers and Sellers

• Key Recommendations:

  • Explicitly ask agents: “What do I get for X percent?”
  • Always read contracts thoroughly before signing.
  • Be aware of alternative services and self-listing options.

  (19:39–23:44)

  “My advice to people now would be flat out say what do I get for x percent?... Read the contract before you sign it in the beginning and don't be like me and just docusign a closing statement because you'll probably miss something.”
  — Jared Bright (20:05, 22:25)

• Empowerment Through Awareness:
  Consumers now have more power and options than ever before, but must take responsibility for being informed and assertive in transactions.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• What People Don’t Know:

  “I think people would be surprised to know that the rate is negotiable. 3% and 3% is negotiable. Whether you’re a buyer or a seller … drives home the opportunity for buyers and sellers to base that percentage off the value they get.”
  — Jared Bright (03:22)

• Gasp-Inducing Trial Moment:

  “Michael Catchmark … said, how do you feel about that? And I said, stupid. I feel stupid. And I said that on the stand. And that's when one of the jurors gasped. … That could happen to anybody.”
  — Jared Bright (13:06)

• On the Future:

  “I hope that they [real estate agents] … have to start to think about the value they provide to each individual customer and not just a blanket percentage for everyone.”
  — Jared Bright (23:20)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:33: Episode introduction and explanation of traditional commission system
• 02:03: Introduction of Jared Bright, plaintiff in the lawsuit
• 03:20: The negotiability of commissions, consumer misconceptions
• 05:43: Bright’s personal experience selling a home, confusion over fees
• 07:22: Whose responsibility is it to check the paperwork?
• 09:16: Ethical issues: lack of competition, transparency
• 11:46: Remarkable trial moments—realization of over-payment
• 13:06: The gasp in the courtroom; lack of consumer knowledge
• 16:34: Lawsuit aim: competition, transparency, commission reform
• 17:08: What’s changed post-verdict—more negotiation, service menu approach
• 20:05: Bright’s advice for home buyers and sellers
• 22:25: Importance of reading contracts; implications for agents and consumers
• 23:44: Closing remarks, calls for continued attention as industry evolves

Conclusion

This episode sheds light on a pivotal legal victory reshaping the real estate landscape in the United States. The discussion offers practical advice and an industry insider’s view on how buyers and sellers can benefit from heightened transparency and competition. Jared Bright’s personal and trial experiences highlight the stakes for ordinary Americans and the crucial importance of consumer empowerment in one of life’s most significant transactions.