After Hours: Why Europe is Putting the Brakes on its Green Energy Rush (From the Archive)

Summary

Full Measure After Hours: Europe’s Green Energy Pause

In the September 19, 2024 episode of "Full Measure After Hours", host Sharyl Attkisson delves into the unexpected slowdown of Europe's green energy transition. Contrary to her initial expectations of witnessing cutting-edge renewable initiatives ahead of the United States, Attkisson uncovers significant challenges undermining Europe’s green ambitions. This comprehensive summary captures the key discussions, expert insights, and critical conclusions drawn from the episode.

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Europe’s Green Energy Ambitions Hit Turbulence

Sharyl Attkisson begins by recounting her recent trip to Europe aimed at exploring advanced green energy projects. Her focus was on initiatives like the Dogger Bank Offshore Wind Farm in the United Kingdom—the largest of its kind globally. However, upon her arrival, she discovers that Europe's green energy surge is encountering severe setbacks. Energy rationing, soaring electric bills, and economic strains are forcing Europe to reconsider its renewable strategies. Notably, some countries are even reopening coal plants, signaling a retreat from previously held green commitments.

“Their dreams of green energy were met with reality, and the reality is that they've been pushing an agenda with goals that even advocates now acknowledge were built on the most fragile foundation, not well thought out, and it's all falling apart.” [02:30]

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Germany’s Energy Crisis: Dependence and Disruption

Attkisson engages with John Constable, director of the Renewable Energy Foundation, to dissect Germany’s precarious energy situation, especially in the aftermath of the Ukraine conflict.

Pre-Ukraine War Energy Landscape: Germany had heavily relied on Russian energy imports, encompassing gas, oil, and coal. Russia was a stable supplier, maintaining consistent deliveries even during the Cold War era, which made dependency a natural choice for German industry.

“Germany was importing substantial amount of energy resources from Russia, not just gas, but also oil and coal. By the way, Russia was the major coal exporter to Germany.” [03:55]

Impact of the Ukraine War: The outbreak of war in Ukraine swiftly disrupted this dependency. Germany halted the construction of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and scrapped the gas embargo due to economic impracticality, revealing the fragility of relying on Russian gas.

“It became clear that Russia itself is not a reliable source of gas, that Putin can themselves decide to stop gas supplies to Europe.” [05:08]

Consequences: The immediate fallout includes energy rationing and the potential closure of industries reliant on consistent gas supply. For instance, German glass production is vulnerable to gas shortages, leading to irreversible shutdowns.

“When gas stops flowing from Russia, even for a short period of time, German glass production will stop and their technological facilities will be damaged to the extent that they cannot be reopened again.” [05:52]

Reopening Coal and Nuclear Debates: Germany faces the dilemma of extending coal plant operations, which contradicts climate goals and poses health risks. Concurrently, the debate over nuclear energy intensifies, with the Green Party resisting a shift back to nuclear power—a stance that complicates finding viable alternatives.

“The Green Party... is still trying to push away the idea from using, from reusing nuclear plants because it's the core element of its agenda.” [06:54]

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UK’s Renewable Energy Challenges

Transitioning to the United Kingdom, Constable critiques Europe’s broader renewable strategy. He highlights that despite substantial investments, the efficacy of wind and solar energy in Europe remains underwhelming due to geographical and climatic limitations.

“Wind in Germany is not very productive. It's in the lower 20% of its theoretical output. Solar is around about 9, 10%. I mean, it's really not a sunny place.” [20:39]

The high costs associated with renewable subsidies have not translated into a robust green industry. Instead, consumers bear the brunt through elevated energy prices, leading to decreased energy demand and industrial competitiveness.

“We've spent nearly US$800 billion subsidizing renewable energy. The costs have not fallen... we've suppressed our energy demand because it's so expensive.” [16:38]

Constable argues that Europe’s reliance on intermittent renewable sources without adequate storage or alternative energy strategies has exacerbated vulnerabilities, particularly in the face of geopolitical tensions.

“Renewables don't offer anything towards security supply. They're randomly intermittent. These are very chaotic forms of energy, so they're unreliable inherently.” [18:12]

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Expert Insights: Critical Analysis of Green Policies

John Constable’s Analysis: Constable presents a harsh critique of Europe’s green energy experiment. He underscores the lack of progress in developing a self-sustaining green industry and points out the economic burdens imposed on both consumers and industries. He emphasizes that the high costs and unreliable energy sources undermine economic stability and energy security.

“The policy has to be rational and the European policy clearly isn't rational because costs were exorbitant. And they haven't ended up with a green industry.” [20:39]

He also suggests that Germany and other European nations could have mitigated some of these issues by investing in Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) infrastructure and enhancing internal energy market connectivity to reduce regional dependencies on Russian gas.

“Germany could have invested more in the LNG facilities... and internal connectivity of energy and gas market.” [13:35]

Stella Creasy’s Perspective: In contrast, Stella Creasy, a Labour Member of Parliament, offers a more optimistic view. She acknowledges the energy crisis but emphasizes the necessity of continuing green initiatives to reduce reliance on autocratic energy suppliers like Russia. Creasy advocates for community-level projects that simultaneously address carbon reduction and cost savings, highlighting the potential for green policies to benefit both the environment and consumers economically.

“We need to make it cheaper and easier to be green... we can really win the argument with people.” [23:05]

However, she admits the challenges posed by the current energy crisis and the geopolitical landscape, expressing concern over the UK's diminished role in international collaboration post-Brexit.

“Climate crisis is the critical thing here is we need people around the table working together.” [24:09]

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Lessons for the United States

Constable reflects on the implications of Europe’s green energy struggles for the United States. He argues that the US is in a markedly different position, given its abundant energy resources and relative energy independence. However, he warns of the high costs and potential economic disruptions associated with breaking global energy interdependencies.

“We live in the global world and every time we mess with this, it will be associated with costs.” [13:20]

Constable urges the US to critically evaluate Europe’s experiences, suggesting a balanced approach that includes reliable energy sources like nuclear power alongside renewable initiatives to ensure energy security and economic stability.

“Perhaps a gas to nuclear strategy would be a much cleverer thing for us to do to decarbonize our economy.” [16:38]

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Conclusion: A Cautionary Tale for Europe and Beyond

The episode presents Europe's green energy transition as a cautionary tale of ambitious policies encountering practical and economic hurdles. While the intent to combat climate change is commendable, the lack of strategic diversification and overreliance on unreliable energy sources like Russian gas have exposed significant vulnerabilities. The contrasting perspectives of Constable and Creasy highlight the complex balance between environmental goals and economic realities.

Sharyl Attkisson emphasizes the urgency of revisiting and potentially recalibrating green energy strategies to ensure they are both sustainable and economically viable. The episode serves as a critical examination of Europe’s renewable energy practices, offering valuable lessons for policymakers and stakeholders worldwide.

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For a deeper dive into Europe's energy challenges and the full range of expert interviews, tuning into the Full Measure After Hours episode released on September 19, 2024, is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Cheryl Atkison]

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Hi everybody, Cheryl Atkison here. I hope you enjoy this special from the Archives edition A Full Measure After Hours. Hi everybody, Cheryl Atkison here. Welcome to another edition of Full Measure After Hours. Today, a shocking reversal for Europe's green energy transition and what we should learn from it. I recently traveled to Europe for work without a preconceived notion of how this story was going to exactly turn out, but the idea was to explore some of Europe's cutting edge green energy initiatives. They are ahead of us in the US in their green energy transition and I wanted to see what that space was like with the idea that what they're experiencing could be around the corner for us as we seem to be following in their footsteps. The global climate agenda is coordinated worldwide. There are billions and billions of dollars being put toward lobbying for certain initiatives and it's interesting to travel around the world and see so many similar things happening as I go from place to place. Clearly, again, having to be coordinated somehow. Did you know they have their own version of a build back greener type plan in the United Kingdom? We're sort of acting in tandem in many ways. But one thing I wanted to do was to learn about Dogger bank, which is the biggest offshore wind farm in the world, being built off the northeast coast of England. My friend Liam Halligan in the UK I think had suggested this to me when I was telling him I was looking for good story ideas. Well, I was not prepared for what happened when I arrived. When I got to Europe and began interviewing experts and advocates, I started to learn that their green energy transition is taking an unexpected and sudden turn in a different direction. And this became very interesting to me and I think it will be to you. As I could see, it's an urgent problem. They were beginning to talk about rationing energy, about skyrocketing electric bills that are so high that their citizens can't afford them. Some economies are said to be on the verge of collapse because of this. And get this, in some places they're actually reopening coal plants. It seems to me that their dreams of green energy were met with reality, and the reality is that they've been pushing an agenda with goals that even advocates now acknowledge were built on the most fragile foundation, not well thought out, and it's all falling apart. Sunday, October 16th on full measure, you will see my cover story and find out what I learned today. In this podcast you'll hear some extended interviews from some interesting experts I spoke with in Germany and the United Kingdom on this topic. Topic I found it very eye openening. First, Alexander Libman, professor of Russian East European Politics at the Free University of Berlin. I'm going to spell Free University because I probably mispronounced it F R E I E. Here's Professor Libman. Can you set the stage?

[Alexander Libman]

What was the state of the energy climate in Germany prior to the Ukraine war?

[John Constable]

Germany was importing substantial amount of energy resources from Russia, not just gas, but also oil and coal. By the way, Russia was the major coal exporter to Germany. And Germany heavily relied on Russia because it believed it to be a stable supplier, which even during the Cold War continued to fulfill its promises. And for German industry it was natural to further rely on Russia, given the long term relations and the geographical distance.

[Alexander Libman]

And how have things changed or how quickly did things change when the war.

[Cheryl Atkison]

Broke out in Ukraine?

[John Constable]

I'd say they didn't change immediately, but they changed within a matter of weeks. German government stopped the construction of Nord Stream 2, a big project it had with Russia, which was also heavily criticized in the eu. And later the discussions about oil embargo, gas embargo started. Germany supported some version of oil embargo, although a relatively weak one, and pulled gas embargo away from the table because it was not feasible for European economies. And then, and this is the point we were now it became clear that Russia itself is not a reliable source of gas, that Putin can themselves decide to stop gas supplies to Europe.

[Alexander Libman]

How does that interrupt the long term plan or the security that Germany thought it had?

[John Constable]

It's indeed a major ripple, let's call it like that. Let's put it like this. Germany was in the middle of the energy transition, that is, Germany stopped using nuclear plants. So the last three nuclear plants are supposed to run out. And Germany was exiting coal because of climate reasons and focusing more on renewables. However, you need some sort of auxiliary energy source to facilitate this transition and gas, and specifically gas from Russia was believed to be this major source.

[Alexander Libman]

So what's happened since you mentioned that there are factories and shops that are closing down and may never reopen. Can you explain?

[John Constable]

Yeah, exactly. The problem is that a gas supply and in Germany it's not just electricity, it's also heating and also technological processes is for at least some industries in Germany without any alternatives. So the best example for me is glass production. When gas stops flowing from Russia, even for a short period of time, German glass production will stop and their technological facilities will be damaged to the extent that they cannot be reopened again, which means companies will go away and they will not restore their production in Germany. It makes no sense because they were here for historical reasons when, for example, labor was much cheaper in Germany and that means a glass supply will cease to be there. And for me, best example of how important glass supply is, it's how we transport. COVID 19 vaccination. Right. So it's not just bottles in a bar. That's much more than that.

[Alexander Libman]

When it comes to the plans for the nuclear power plants and the coal plants, what's happening now? What's changed because of this?

[John Constable]

I mean, in terms of coal plants, the idea is that they're going to run longer, that one's going to rely on them longer, which is of course associated with consequences for climate change. Right. This is the most dirty energy, so to say, and also has multiple other problems. Coal, for example, is cancerogenic. The coal extraction is cancerogenic. So it's also a risk. In terms of nuclear plants, there is a very intensive debate in Germany. The Green Party, which is part of the ruling coalition, is still trying to push away the idea from using, from reusing nuclear plants because it's the core element of its agenda. If there is something which remained from the old Green Party of the past, which was pacifist, which was very left oriented, it's going away from nuclear energy. The problem is what's the alternative? And of course, another problem which people don't speak so loudly in Germany about now, but which is relevant, is that the direct neighbor of Germany, France, is heavily relying on nuclear energy and it's not going to change it.

[Alexander Libman]

It seems like this is maybe then a turning point in a quick march forward in Europe toward climate change policies and green energy. Now, is all of that having to be reconfigured?

[John Constable]

Absolutely. I think if you talk to somebody who clearly subscribes to the Green Party agenda, they would say that's exactly the moment when one needs to push forward and that's the moment when the energy transition really has to happen. But I'm not so sure about that. First of all, energy transition massive, relies on governmental subsidies and we are going towards a recession. I mean, there is no doubt about that. And if the recession starts, governments is going to have less money to invest in the green transition. That's the first factor. And then where is this auxiliary energy coming from which we need to for the period of time when preparing money is preparing this green transition? There are simply no alternatives for gas supply on the global market Germany and other European. European countries can rely upon. There is no substitute.

[Cheryl Atkison]

So what happens?

[John Constable]

I don't know. Nobody knows. Actually, the hope is that Putin doesn't stop gas supply. And actually Russian Federation, Putin's regime is, how should I put it, playing a bit the cat and mouse game in this respect. So, for example, now the major route of energy supply to Germany, the Nordstrip 1 pipeline, which was finalized the couple of years ago, it's still running, but it's running only at one fifth of its capacity. Russia justifies it with the fact that it needs a turbine which was originally repaired in Canada to be delivered back to Russia so that it can restore the flow of gas. And then German government asked the Canadian government to allow the delivery of turbine to Russia because sanctions, strictly speaking, prohibit that. Okay, turbine is now in Germany and Russia behaves in a very unclear way. It claims that the customs clearances are not there, so the turbine is still in Germany. At the same time, Russia is increasing the gas supply for alternative routes to North Strait 1. So it's kind of looks like we take a little bit less here. You sent a little bit more here in the Ukrainian pipeline system. Actually, Russia is sending even more gas which creates, according to what I understand, risks for the integrity of the pipeline. And I'm pretty sure it's going to continue. It's going to continue for months. It's going to continue for the whole winter. So that European Union and Germany in particular, every day and every month know how dependent they are on Russian gas and know the risks they are facing.

[Alexander Libman]

Is this in a way a comment on the idea that Europe or anybody can quickly move to a greener economy and fulfill these. For example, as you know, Great, Great Britain passed its build back greener plan, unveiled that maybe they wouldn't have done that today, but that was late last year. What do you think? Would they do that today? Or would they even be able to try to set an ambitious goal like that today for 2050 being net zero?

[John Constable]

Yeah, I think Great Britain is a bit different story because Great Britain was not as dependent on Russian energy. On the other hand, Great Britain has its own, own mess of the problems because of Brexit and because of general economic crisis. The world is entering. I'd say it puts the green energy plans at risk, that's for sure. And we have to wait and see what is going to happen in the years to come. On the one hand, there is of course, very strong commitment also in the German political elites towards the green transition, and I am sure they will at least try to maintain the plans. There may be some areas where the plans will be even accelerated. For example, exit for the gas heating in private homes. In Germany, there are plans that.

[Cheryl Atkison]

The.

[John Constable]

Installation of new gas heating facilities will be prohibited very soon. But it's very difficult to master this great transition under the conditions of economic crisis and with the population which will fully suffer from possible energy deficit. In Germany, people sometimes say, well, that's about, you know, a bit less heating in your apartment, warm clothes, and then everything will be fine. But unfortunately, that's not the case. I mean, we're looking at factories closing, we're looking at people getting unemployed, and we're looking at especially relatively poor groups of this population being unable to pay their gas prices.

[Alexander Libman]

What would you say the United States has to learn from the experience of what's happening here?

[John Constable]

I don't think it's such an issue for the United States because the United States itself has sufficient resources, energy resources as well, and is less reliant on other countries. I mean, it's importing energy, but partly because it's also creating strategic reserves, for example, in oil. It's very different for Europe. But I think what's very important to understand is the enormous costs and enormous price tag associated with breaking economic interdependencies. We live in the global world and every time we mess with this, and I'm pretty sure it's going to happen further in the future, because autocracies also live in this global world and they will continue their policies. It will be difficult and one has to understand that one has to prepare for that in advance and it will be associated with costs.

[Alexander Libman]

And then lastly, can you think of something? If Europe, if Germany perhaps and some other countries had viewed things a little differently and not been so secure in.

[Cheryl Atkison]

The plan that they had, for example.

[Alexander Libman]

With Russia, what could they have done or what might they have done differently?

[John Constable]

There are some things which you could have done differently. For example, you could invest more in the LNG facilities. Germany doesn't have any.

[Alexander Libman]

What does? Lng?

[John Constable]

Liquefied natural gas. I mean, Poland, for example, invested in that. Baltic countries invested in that. And that's why they have alternatives. Germany could have done it. Germany didn't do anything in this respect. Germany also could have done more in terms of internal connectivity of energy and gas market, because different parts of Germany depend on Russian gas to a different extent. For example, Bavaria in the south imports almost entire gas supply from Russia and there is very little energy connectivity within Germany, for example, because one doesn't want to ruin the beautiful landscapes with their energy lines and so on. And one should have thought about this more thoroughly. One should have invested more effort into energy security in making sure that one diversifies the supply. Doesn't mean that one doesn't need to work with Russia, but one shouldn't be dependent on Russia and that's a decisive moment and this unfortunately was not clear for Germany.

[Cheryl Atkison]

When we continue, we are on to the UK to hear about how they're grappling with an increasingly urgent energy situation as they move ahead into winter.

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Next we are going to hear from John Constable, director of a small UK charity called the Renewable Energy foundation, which publishes data on the renewable energy sector and has been doing so since 2004.

[Alexander Libman]

The United States is moving faster and faster from what I can see, toward green energy and climate change agendas, including more renewable energy, wind and solar, and so on. Is it true that Europe is ahead of the United States on that front? And what have we seen? Or what could the US learn from Europe?

[John Constable]

Europe is much further ahead. We spent much more, we've learnt much more. Or at least we could have learned a great deal and so can you. The experiment has been disastrous. To put no more strongly, since around about 2008, we spent nearly US$800 billion subsidizing renewable energy. The costs have not fallen. We've not got a green industry. All we've done is increase consumer costs dramatically increase consumer costs above those in the G20 and we've lost a lot of industry and we suppressed our energy demand because it's so expensive. We've got economist called price rationing here. It's baffling to me that the White House is not focusing on this disastrous result and saying, well, they got it wrong. We ought to rethink this. Perhaps a gas to nuclear strategy would be a much cleverer thing for us to do to decarbonize our economy. And I'm not suggesting you should abandon decarbonization. It's rational to have a decarbonisation policy, but the policy has to be rational and the European policy clearly isn't rational because costs were exorbitant. And as I say, they haven't ended up with a green industry, they haven't ended up with a truly fundamental economic wind and solar industry itself. And energy demand in Europe, and particularly here in the uk actually has been plummeting because of high costs.

[Alexander Libman]

To those who would say this new giant wind farm being built offshore here, that looks like success, what would you say?

[John Constable]

It's just momentum. This industry has received $60 billion in subsidy here in the UK. It's got a lot of momentum. It'll carry on for quite a while.

How much longer?

Well, when will consumers cry? Polls stop. This is just too much. I think it's getting to that point. The invasion of Ukraine has focused minds and things were actually very bad in the UK electricity industry before the invasion of Ukraine. But the invasion has exposed the degree to which the UK particularly, but all European states are critically dependent on natural gas for security supply. So the truth is that renewables don't offer anything towards security supply. They're randomly intermittent. They have, to put it technically, their entropy is very high. These are very chaotic forms of energy, so they're unreliable inherently. So we've become dependent on natural gas. So far from renewables enhancing our security, we've actually become more exposed to Mr. Putin's gas politics than we would have been if we'd stuck to a coal gas nuclear strategy and tried to decarbonise economically rather than subsidizing sources of energy which are physically unsuitable.

[Alexander Libman]

Let's take a look at Germany, because I'm going there next and we're going to be looking at their green energy policy. I've read that some people blame some of the green energy initiatives that they try to move forward on under Merkel for some of the economic problems they had subsequently. Can you tell me what they did and do you think that played a role in any suffering that they had economically?

[John Constable]

Germany is pretty much the leading country in Europe for the deployment of renewables, closely followed by a couple of others. UK is one of them, actually. But the Germans have done a lot of this and their energy consumption is also falling. Now, some people will say that surely that's energy efficiency, but we know from theory that it's not energy efficiency. It can't be. If efficiency measures are working, your consumption actually rises because your economy becomes more efficient and grows. So falling energy consumption is a very, very bad sign. And even in Germany, energy consumption is falling very significantly. Not quite as much as it is here in the uk, but it's still quite a lot. So, yes, is the answer. Germany has very high costs. It's the only country in Europe which has a positive trade balance. So they're very worried about becoming fundamentally uncompetitive in the international markets. And if you understand how important energy is to the overall economic process and particularly to heavy industrial processes such as the Germans have, then of course, yes, you can see that their renewables project has failed, hasn't become cheaper, and, yes, it's burdening their economy very seriously.

[Alexander Libman]

Can you give me specifics of what they did? Did they just put a lot of money, for example, into wind farms? I mean, what did they do as an initiative?

[John Constable]

It's mostly wind and solar in Germany, but they have done a lot else besides. They use a lot of biomass as well, and biogas, but it's mostly wind, mostly solar. Now, wind in Germany is not very productive. It's in the lower 20% of its theoretical output. Solar is around about 9, 10%. I mean, it's really not a sunny place. And we have a lot of solar here in the uk, and that's stupid. This is a very cloudy country. But Germany is even darker. So it's really extraordinary that they've done this with a very large wind and solar fleets. And these are extremely expensive and they've all got guaranteed prices which are well above the market.

[Alexander Libman]

And what have they found as a result?

[John Constable]

Well, they found a great deal, if only they had eyes to see. It's the same as Europe. They've discovered a great deal, but they're not actually looking at the evidence approach. They don't want to admit it's failed. I mean, you can hardly blame them. And governments find it very difficult to admit they've made a mistake. But you'd think that the people in the large would do so. But they're finding it hard to admit that it hasn't been successful. We have the same problem here in the uk. The evidence is there and this is a real important role. The U.S. i mean, you don't have to be sentimental about this. You can actually look at what happened here, the costs and the performances, and decide whether it's been a success or not. You can do that quite fearlessly.

[Alexander Libman]

And lastly, what advice do you have if you're people who aren't watching this carefully, but they do like the idea of green energy and they're well meaning. I'm talking about people in the United States. What is your advice to them?

[John Constable]

Look carefully at what's happened in Europe and make up your own mind about whether it's been a success. Do you really want to see falling energy consumption, deindustrialization, extremely high consumer prices across the board, from industry right through to households? If that's what you want, well, by all means, go ahead, copy Europe and its experiment. If on the other hand, you want to prosper and be a defensible and independent country, still, well, think again.

[Cheryl Atkison]

And lastly, a word from Stella Creasy. She is the Labour and Cooperative Party Member of Parliament for Walthamstow. Again, I probably said that wrong. Maybe Walthamstow, and that's in northeast London. Let's suffice it to say she comes from a left leaning viewpoint and vehemently supports green energy initiatives. So I wanted to get her take on what's going on. Now here's Stella Creasy.

[Stella Creasy]

Well, so it's a non negotiable thing that we have to get this right because we know that the climate crisis is a very serious and real threat. But we also know that people, people are struggling with the cost of living. The challenge for all of us is how do we make it cheaper and easier to be green? And actually what we find in my local community is when you bring those two things together, you can really win the argument with people. So we're running a project in my local community right now to cut the amount of carbon we're using, but also cut the costs that my community are facing by recycling and repairing. I think in Europe in general there is more commitment to the idea that actually we can bring those two concerns together, that we can make it cheaper and easier to Go green, because that's how we save our pockets and we save the planet. We need to do that in partnership with America. So we need to win that argument with people. I go back to what I said earlier. A lot of politicians want to tell you who to blame, but really what we need right now is some answers because there is no Plan B when it comes to the planet.

[Alexander Libman]

We're going to Germany next and as you probably know, a big focus of people who oppose some of the green energy efforts is that Germany is, I guess, starting back up some of their coal plants, which they had taken offline. Does that say to you that something's not working?

[Stella Creasy]

I think it's a recognition of the energy crisis that the whole world is facing as a result. The situation in Ukraine. For many of us, the answer isn't to go back to fossil fuels, is to put the investment into renewable energy because that also makes us less reliant on people like Russia and the terrible things are doing in the Ukraine and the way they're holding the world to ransom in that way. And it's not just energy, it's food too, but also because it helps us with that. Climate crisis is the critical thing here is we need people around the table working together. That's why I'm sad about Brexit, because I know as a result of Brexit, the UK isn't a strong voice for that collaboration. In the rooms where those conversations are taking place, we're having to shout from the sidelines. And that means our punches are being pulled on this.

[Cheryl Atkison]

I hope you'll watch Full measure on Sunday, October 16, as I pull all of this and more together. To find out where we air on a TV station near you, you can go to cherylackson.com and click the Full Measure tab for a list of TV stations and times. But also, if it's easier, you can just go online Sunday at FullMeasure News. That's FullMeasure News you can watch live at 9:30 Eastern Time right there on the web or replays most any time when you want to see the COVID story. And we have a free app called Stir S T I R R that airs Full Measure live and on demand and also has a lot of other cool free programming. If you enjoy content like this, you'll want to check out my other podcast, the Sheryl Atkison Podcast. And I hope if you like it, you'll leave a good review and share it with your friends. And now you can support independent journalism by going to cherylackson.com and clicking on the store tab for some cool products that have some great slogans for independent thinkers like you. Proceeds go to benefit independent journalism causes. Do your own research. Make up your own mind. Think for yourself.