OJ Simpson Civil Trial 1996 – Day 5
Podcast: Full Trial Audio: OJ Simpson Murder Trial
Date: June 8, 2025
Episode: Civil Trial 1996 - Day 5
Overview
This episode captures extensive deposition testimony in the O.J. Simpson civil trial relating to the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman, focusing on O.J. Simpson’s activities, personal belongings, and interactions in the days immediately before and after the murders. The episode highlights intense questioning on mundane details (shoes, gloves, socks, luggage), Simpson's behavior and communication after learning of Nicole's death, and his interactions with police, friends, and key witnesses such as Kato Kaelin and Ron Shipp. The questioning alternates between probing O.J.'s memory and confronting him with evidence—both physical (clothing, fibers, blood) and documentary (phone records, travel schedules).
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Lighting and Movements on Night of June 12 (00:12–02:12)
- Simpson questioned about actions related to lighting at Rockingham property.
- He gives equivocal answers about whether he turned on certain lights before or after interacting with the limo driver.
- Memorable Quote:
"I'm not sure if I did it before or after, but I may have one or the other." (01:06, O.J. Simpson)
- Repeatedly says he does not recall specifics regarding the sequence.
2. Who Was at Rockingham After Nicole’s Death (02:15–05:31)
- Simpson lists friends and family present on June 13.
- Names immediate family (mother Eunice, sisters Carmelita & Shirley, brother-in-law Benny Baker, son Jason, daughter Arnelle, Kathy Randa, Bob Kardashian), plus other friends. Mentions people “coming and going.”
- Prosecutor presses about conversations with Ron Shipp that evening, particularly alone, and about any “weird thoughts” or discussing a dream of killing Nicole. Simpson denies all such conversations.
- Notable exchange:
“My sister and my mom, I was with them all the time ... at times got a little irritating ... they wouldn't let me be alone.” (05:09–05:23, O.J. Simpson)
3. Relationship with Ron Shipp & Prior Incidents (08:06–13:47)
- Simpson discusses Ron Shipp’s struggles (drugs, alcohol), describing guilt and attempts to help him.
- Reports a recent incident where Shipp appeared at Simpson's gate uninvited, wanting to use the Jacuzzi with a woman described as a "Nicole type" (big, athletic blonde).
- Quote:
"I would say 5'10", 5'11". Blonde girl. And she was in the Jacuzzi ..." (15:00, O.J. Simpson)
- Describes how Shipp might have entered property and instructed housekeeper Kathy Randa to enforce calling ahead.
4. Detailed Shoe Ownership and the Bruno Magli Shoes (17:56–34:01)
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Exhaustive questioning on clothes shopping habits, store preferences, and brands purchased over years.
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Focus on whether Simpson ever owned or wore Bruno Magli shoes, which match bloody shoeprints from the crime scene.
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Simpson repeatedly claims ignorance about shoe types/brands, but eventually concedes he may have owned brands like Bally's, Ferragamo, Stacy Adams, Reebok, Nike, Puma, Foot Joy.
- Notable sequence:
- “I've never walked into a shoe store in my life and asked for a pair of shoes by name.” (21:47)
- “If Bruno Magli makes shoes that look like the shoes they had in court ... I would have never worn those ugly ass shoes." (27:53, O.J. Simpson)
- Prosecutor pushes: "You thought those were ugly ass shoes?" (28:03)
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Simpson maintains he “never” owned or wore Bruno Magli shoes, calling them “ugly,” and describes his shoe style choices as generally loafers or dress shoes.
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Admits some possibility about not knowing all shoe brands, but firmly denies owning the specific pair central to the trial.
5. Gloves, Ski Caps, and Clothing Ownership (34:09–66:46)
- Intense focus on glove types, brands, who bought them, where they were kept, and their appearance in photographs/exhibits.
- Simpson struggles to recall the number of pairs, specific brands (e.g., Isotoner), and repeatedly states “I don’t know,” or “I may have.”
- Questioned about glove size (usually extra-large or double-XL), use of gloves for TV work and football coverage.
- Asked to identify brown and black gloves in various exhibits.
- On ski caps (“watch caps”), Simpson says he bought only one in his life, but doesn’t exclude the possibility others ended up in the house.
- Denies wearing sweatsuits or dark athletic pants for exercise, only using “bicycle pants,” i.e., Spandex, for workouts.
6. Travel, Luggage, and Timeline Details (69:00–103:32)
- Recounts departure for Chicago, describing luggage, golf clubs, and interaction with Hertz driver “Merrill.”
- Simpson consistent that he made (and missed) arrangements regarding his golf clubs, explains phone calls to friends/family in LA.
- Examined about pickup/drop-offs at airports and hotels, movement of suitcase and golf clubs, and why he didn’t check inside for contents.
- Confirms he typically retrieves his golf clubs himself after flights, sometimes uses airport “lost and found.”
7. Communications After Learning of Nicole’s Death (115:34–171:31)
- Details of key phone calls made from Chicago after being notified of Nicole’s murder:
- First call: Officer notified Simpson; officer assured his kids were safe (119:07).
- Calls to Kathy Randa to book earliest return flight; initially doesn't reveal Nicole's death.
- Spoke with various friends and attempted several times to reach Kato Kaelin, seeking updates on what the police were doing at his house.
- Quote:
“Since the police wouldn't tell me anything ... maybe Cato knew something that was going on.” (145:37, O.J. Simpson)
- Prosecutor tries to tie Simpson's calls to Kato to urge “alibi” or coordinate stories, which Simpson denies.
- Spoke to daughter Arnelle and attempted to comfort her. Also discussed phone conversations with Judy Brown (Nicole’s mother), denying any conversation where he was accused or questioned about involvement in the murder.
8. Evidence Confrontation: Hair, Fibers, Blood (210:37–216:22)
- Prosecutor directly confronts Simpson with forensic evidence:
- Hair consistent with Simpson’s found in the Bundy watch cap.
- Hair/fibers matching his or victims’ found on various items (Goldman’s shirt, gloves, Bronco carpet, socks, etc.)
- Multiple bloodstains matching Simpson, Nicole, and Goldman in various key locations.
- Each time, Simpson either says he has "no explanation" or "no knowledge" of how this evidence could connect to him.
- Quote:
“I'm no expert on similarities of hairs for sure ...” (211:39, O.J. Simpson)
“I have no knowledge of any of this that you're saying.” (212:44, O.J. Simpson)
9. The Frogman Movie and Knife Handling (184:09–194:01)
- Questions about his acting role in "Frogman" as a Navy SEAL, whether he received any combat/knife training for it.
- Simpson says he received no special training, only staging from the director and stunt coordinator for basic camera choreography.
- Asked if he saved or kept any of the costume, props, or knife from the filming—answers no to each.
10. Wrapping Up: Socks, Habits, and Revisiting Key Evidence (198:03–213:58)
- Asked about socks visible at crime scene: brand, material, whether they were his. Simpson denies leaving socks on the bedroom floor, says if he wore black socks he’d either put them in his shoes or drawer.
- Returns to gloves and hats in evidence, asserting after trying gloves on that they were “too small” and not his.
Notable Quotes & Moments
- "If they don't fit, they don't fit, I don't know." (52:52)
- "I would have never worn those ugly ass shoes." (27:53)
- "Because I just ... that's what I do." (94:42, re: driving around aimlessly)
- "I never leave my socks on the floor." (200:14)
- "I didn't know I needed an alibi." (219:52)
- "Maybe because I'm black." (210:59, referencing hair in the watch cap)
- "I'm no expert on similarities of hairs for sure ... I have no knowledge of any of this." (211:39–212:44)
Detailed Timestamps for Critical Sections
- Lighting/Evening Movements: 00:12–02:12
- Who Was Present/Condolence Scene: 02:15–05:31
- Ron Shipp/Drug Incident: 08:06–13:47
- Clothes and Shoe Shopping: 17:56–34:01
- Gloves and Identification: 34:09–66:46
- Travel/Chicago/Bag Details: 69:00–103:32
- Phone Calls post-Murder Notification: 115:34–171:31
- Frogman/"Knife Training": 184:09–194:01
- Socks and Composite Evidence: 198:03–213:58
Tone & Style
- O.J. Simpson: Calm but often evasive, claims lack of memory for specifics, sometimes irritated by repeated questions. Dismisses several key pieces of evidence concerning him with vague denial or asserts lack of knowledge.
- Prosecutor: Methodical, persistent, sometimes pointed, often doubles back to prior testimony or refutes O.J.’s ambiguity (“That’s not what you asked ...”).
- Defense: Occasional reminders not to answer on privileged topics, confronts the prosecutor over argumentative or repetitive lines of questioning.
Summary for New Listeners
This episode offers a true-crime deep dive into the granular questioning O.J. Simpson faced in the civil trial, especially focusing on the existence and identification of clothing, physical evidence at the scene, and his behavior/communications just before and after the double homicide. Forensic details, personal habits, and social interactions are dissected with precision as the prosecution attempts to pin Simpson to the evidence and challenge his credibility. Through persistent questioning, Simpson remains steadfastly noncommittal or vague, rarely admitting to more than the evidence forces.
This episode is a rare, detailed window into the post-criminal-trial civil suit, showing both the minutiae and legal chess that defined the O.J. Simpson case for years to come.
