Civil Trial 1996 - Day 5

Summary

OJ Simpson Civil Trial 1996 – Day 5

Podcast: Full Trial Audio: OJ Simpson Murder Trial
Date: June 8, 2025
Episode: Civil Trial 1996 - Day 5

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Overview

This episode captures extensive deposition testimony in the O.J. Simpson civil trial relating to the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman, focusing on O.J. Simpson’s activities, personal belongings, and interactions in the days immediately before and after the murders. The episode highlights intense questioning on mundane details (shoes, gloves, socks, luggage), Simpson's behavior and communication after learning of Nicole's death, and his interactions with police, friends, and key witnesses such as Kato Kaelin and Ron Shipp. The questioning alternates between probing O.J.'s memory and confronting him with evidence—both physical (clothing, fibers, blood) and documentary (phone records, travel schedules).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lighting and Movements on Night of June 12 (00:12–02:12)

• Simpson questioned about actions related to lighting at Rockingham property.
• He gives equivocal answers about whether he turned on certain lights before or after interacting with the limo driver.
  • Memorable Quote:
    "I'm not sure if I did it before or after, but I may have one or the other." (01:06, O.J. Simpson)
• Repeatedly says he does not recall specifics regarding the sequence.

2. Who Was at Rockingham After Nicole’s Death (02:15–05:31)

• Simpson lists friends and family present on June 13.
• Names immediate family (mother Eunice, sisters Carmelita & Shirley, brother-in-law Benny Baker, son Jason, daughter Arnelle, Kathy Randa, Bob Kardashian), plus other friends. Mentions people “coming and going.”
• Prosecutor presses about conversations with Ron Shipp that evening, particularly alone, and about any “weird thoughts” or discussing a dream of killing Nicole. Simpson denies all such conversations.
  • Notable exchange:
    “My sister and my mom, I was with them all the time ... at times got a little irritating ... they wouldn't let me be alone.” (05:09–05:23, O.J. Simpson)

3. Relationship with Ron Shipp & Prior Incidents (08:06–13:47)

• Simpson discusses Ron Shipp’s struggles (drugs, alcohol), describing guilt and attempts to help him.
• Reports a recent incident where Shipp appeared at Simpson's gate uninvited, wanting to use the Jacuzzi with a woman described as a "Nicole type" (big, athletic blonde).
  • Quote:
    "I would say 5'10", 5'11". Blonde girl. And she was in the Jacuzzi ..." (15:00, O.J. Simpson)
• Describes how Shipp might have entered property and instructed housekeeper Kathy Randa to enforce calling ahead.

4. Detailed Shoe Ownership and the Bruno Magli Shoes (17:56–34:01)

• Exhaustive questioning on clothes shopping habits, store preferences, and brands purchased over years.

• Focus on whether Simpson ever owned or wore Bruno Magli shoes, which match bloody shoeprints from the crime scene.

• Simpson repeatedly claims ignorance about shoe types/brands, but eventually concedes he may have owned brands like Bally's, Ferragamo, Stacy Adams, Reebok, Nike, Puma, Foot Joy.

  • Notable sequence:
    • “I've never walked into a shoe store in my life and asked for a pair of shoes by name.” (21:47)
    • “If Bruno Magli makes shoes that look like the shoes they had in court ... I would have never worn those ugly ass shoes." (27:53, O.J. Simpson)
    • Prosecutor pushes: "You thought those were ugly ass shoes?" (28:03)

• Simpson maintains he “never” owned or wore Bruno Magli shoes, calling them “ugly,” and describes his shoe style choices as generally loafers or dress shoes.

• Admits some possibility about not knowing all shoe brands, but firmly denies owning the specific pair central to the trial.

5. Gloves, Ski Caps, and Clothing Ownership (34:09–66:46)

• Intense focus on glove types, brands, who bought them, where they were kept, and their appearance in photographs/exhibits.
• Simpson struggles to recall the number of pairs, specific brands (e.g., Isotoner), and repeatedly states “I don’t know,” or “I may have.”
• Questioned about glove size (usually extra-large or double-XL), use of gloves for TV work and football coverage.
• Asked to identify brown and black gloves in various exhibits.
• On ski caps (“watch caps”), Simpson says he bought only one in his life, but doesn’t exclude the possibility others ended up in the house.
• Denies wearing sweatsuits or dark athletic pants for exercise, only using “bicycle pants,” i.e., Spandex, for workouts.

6. Travel, Luggage, and Timeline Details (69:00–103:32)

• Recounts departure for Chicago, describing luggage, golf clubs, and interaction with Hertz driver “Merrill.”
• Simpson consistent that he made (and missed) arrangements regarding his golf clubs, explains phone calls to friends/family in LA.
• Examined about pickup/drop-offs at airports and hotels, movement of suitcase and golf clubs, and why he didn’t check inside for contents.
• Confirms he typically retrieves his golf clubs himself after flights, sometimes uses airport “lost and found.”

7. Communications After Learning of Nicole’s Death (115:34–171:31)

• Details of key phone calls made from Chicago after being notified of Nicole’s murder:
  • First call: Officer notified Simpson; officer assured his kids were safe (119:07).
  • Calls to Kathy Randa to book earliest return flight; initially doesn't reveal Nicole's death.
  • Spoke with various friends and attempted several times to reach Kato Kaelin, seeking updates on what the police were doing at his house.
    • Quote:
      “Since the police wouldn't tell me anything ... maybe Cato knew something that was going on.” (145:37, O.J. Simpson)
  • Prosecutor tries to tie Simpson's calls to Kato to urge “alibi” or coordinate stories, which Simpson denies.
  • Spoke to daughter Arnelle and attempted to comfort her. Also discussed phone conversations with Judy Brown (Nicole’s mother), denying any conversation where he was accused or questioned about involvement in the murder.

8. Evidence Confrontation: Hair, Fibers, Blood (210:37–216:22)

• Prosecutor directly confronts Simpson with forensic evidence:
  • Hair consistent with Simpson’s found in the Bundy watch cap.
  • Hair/fibers matching his or victims’ found on various items (Goldman’s shirt, gloves, Bronco carpet, socks, etc.)
  • Multiple bloodstains matching Simpson, Nicole, and Goldman in various key locations.
• Each time, Simpson either says he has "no explanation" or "no knowledge" of how this evidence could connect to him.
  • Quote:
    “I'm no expert on similarities of hairs for sure ...” (211:39, O.J. Simpson) “I have no knowledge of any of this that you're saying.” (212:44, O.J. Simpson)

9. The Frogman Movie and Knife Handling (184:09–194:01)

• Questions about his acting role in "Frogman" as a Navy SEAL, whether he received any combat/knife training for it.
• Simpson says he received no special training, only staging from the director and stunt coordinator for basic camera choreography.
• Asked if he saved or kept any of the costume, props, or knife from the filming—answers no to each.

10. Wrapping Up: Socks, Habits, and Revisiting Key Evidence (198:03–213:58)

• Asked about socks visible at crime scene: brand, material, whether they were his. Simpson denies leaving socks on the bedroom floor, says if he wore black socks he’d either put them in his shoes or drawer.
• Returns to gloves and hats in evidence, asserting after trying gloves on that they were “too small” and not his.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "If they don't fit, they don't fit, I don't know." (52:52)
• "I would have never worn those ugly ass shoes." (27:53)
• "Because I just ... that's what I do." (94:42, re: driving around aimlessly)
• "I never leave my socks on the floor." (200:14)
• "I didn't know I needed an alibi." (219:52)
• "Maybe because I'm black." (210:59, referencing hair in the watch cap)
• "I'm no expert on similarities of hairs for sure ... I have no knowledge of any of this." (211:39–212:44)

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Detailed Timestamps for Critical Sections

• Lighting/Evening Movements: 00:12–02:12
• Who Was Present/Condolence Scene: 02:15–05:31
• Ron Shipp/Drug Incident: 08:06–13:47
• Clothes and Shoe Shopping: 17:56–34:01
• Gloves and Identification: 34:09–66:46
• Travel/Chicago/Bag Details: 69:00–103:32
• Phone Calls post-Murder Notification: 115:34–171:31
• Frogman/"Knife Training": 184:09–194:01
• Socks and Composite Evidence: 198:03–213:58

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Tone & Style

• O.J. Simpson: Calm but often evasive, claims lack of memory for specifics, sometimes irritated by repeated questions. Dismisses several key pieces of evidence concerning him with vague denial or asserts lack of knowledge.
• Prosecutor: Methodical, persistent, sometimes pointed, often doubles back to prior testimony or refutes O.J.’s ambiguity (“That’s not what you asked ...”).
• Defense: Occasional reminders not to answer on privileged topics, confronts the prosecutor over argumentative or repetitive lines of questioning.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode offers a true-crime deep dive into the granular questioning O.J. Simpson faced in the civil trial, especially focusing on the existence and identification of clothing, physical evidence at the scene, and his behavior/communications just before and after the double homicide. Forensic details, personal habits, and social interactions are dissected with precision as the prosecution attempts to pin Simpson to the evidence and challenge his credibility. Through persistent questioning, Simpson remains steadfastly noncommittal or vague, rarely admitting to more than the evidence forces.

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This episode is a rare, detailed window into the post-criminal-trial civil suit, showing both the minutiae and legal chess that defined the O.J. Simpson case for years to come.

Transcript

[Prosecutor]

Good morning, Mr. Simpson.

[O.J. Simpson]

Good morning.

[Prosecutor]

Review any documents last night for this depot?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Talk to anybody other than lawyers about the deposition?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When you went up the. Withdrawn. When you came down the stairs, picked up the golf cover bag and signaled to the limousine driver and then went inside the house, did you then turn on any lights?

[O.J. Simpson]

If the coach lights weren't on by then, I may have turned the coach lights on at that time.

[Prosecutor]

Did you turn the coach lights on before you came out the door or after you went in the house?

[O.J. Simpson]

As I said, if they possibly. If they want on then before then, I may have turned them on then. I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Before you actually step down?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall if I did it before or as I turned and came back in. I just don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

The light switches on the inside?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. And I may have done that.

[Prosecutor]

Yes, may have done.

[O.J. Simpson]

Why turned on the coach lights before

[Prosecutor]

you picked up the golf bag and showed it to the limo driver, or

[O.J. Simpson]

after, as I told you? I'm not sure if I did it before or after, but I may have one or the other.

[Prosecutor]

Now, was the entryway light on at that time when you came down the stairs?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

And did you turn that light on when. When you went in the house after you picked up the golf cover bag?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have, but I know my lamp was on, so I may not have.

[Prosecutor]

You have a separate lamp and a separate light in the entryway, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

So your best recollection now is that you turned the coach lights on but not the entryway line?

[O.J. Simpson]

That I may have. I may have, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Just not sure.

[O.J. Simpson]

Just not sure.

[Prosecutor]

And you're not sure if you turned it on before or after you came out the house?

[Defense Attorney]

It's asking answer. You covered this.

[O.J. Simpson]

You covered.

[Prosecutor]

I don't think I did, Mr. Baker, because I have a little notation here that I didn't. Anyway, I was just trying to clarify this point. Can you let him answer that question?

[Defense Attorney]

Sure, go ahead.

[Prosecutor]

Okay.

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

And you're not sure if you turned on the coach lights before or after you came out of the house, is that correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's correct.

[Prosecutor]

Who was at. Withdrawn at some point on 13 June, when you were at the Rockingham property with Lang and your lawyers, Lang then left, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Well, at some point the police were gone and you were in your home on the evening of June 13th without anybody from the LAPD there, is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's correct.

[Prosecutor]

And you were with some of your close friends and family Right, Correct. And who was there that evening with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'll just take a guess. My family, my immediate sisters and my mom.

[Prosecutor]

I need you to just give me the names. Your mother, Eunice.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Your sister's who?

[O.J. Simpson]

Carmelita and Shirley?

[Prosecutor]

Yeah.

[O.J. Simpson]

My. My brother in law, Benny Baker. First name Benny Baker.

[Prosecutor]

Benny Baker, Yes.

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe members of his family may have been there. I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

Benny's married to Shirley.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Members, you know, nieces and stuff may have been there.

[Prosecutor]

They're children, in other words.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Anyone else?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe as the night went on, my son and my daughter, Jason and Arnel. Yes, I'm sure. Kathy Randall was there. Bob Kardashian was there. And then there was just so many people coming in and out who came in and out. I can't even recall all of them. I can't. Some of them. I think Ron Shipp was there. Joe Stellini, I think I recall being there. I may have mentioned Kardashian and there was just people coming and going.

[Prosecutor]

Can you remember anybody else, Mr. Simpson?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not right now, no.

[Prosecutor]

Who is Joe Stellini? A friend of mine for a number of years.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. No.

[Prosecutor]

Is that the man who owns Delini's?

[O.J. Simpson]

Used to, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah, he doesn't own it anymore.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think it's open anymore.

[Prosecutor]

You had a conversation with Ron Shipp that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall having a conversation with Ron other than general, whatever. Everybody was saying to me, oh, Cato was there.

[Prosecutor]

Cato Kalin.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Tell me what you said to Ron ship.

[O.J. Simpson]

Mr. Simpson, I don't. Other than what? Everybody was asking me how I was feeling. They were. They were expressing their condolences and it would have been in that vein.

[Prosecutor]

Ship was expressing his condolences to you.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

For the loss of Nicole.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And he had known Nicole himself, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you and he ever talk alone?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Are you positive?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Why are you so sure of that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because my sister and my mom, I was with them all the time. When I went upstairs at sort of was irritating that my sisters stayed with me, you know, and it was at times got a little irritating.

[Prosecutor]

At times you got irritated about why

[O.J. Simpson]

and they wouldn't let me be alone.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask folks to leave?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When you went upstairs, you mean to your bedroom?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

At any time that evening, was Ron Shipp upstairs in his. With you in your bedroom?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. People. Various people came up when they were leaving to say goodbye and he may have been one of them.

[Prosecutor]

And if he came up to say goodbye in Your bedroom. Were you and he alone at that time?

[O.J. Simpson]

If he were, no.

[Prosecutor]

Who was with the two of you? You and Ship?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if he ever came up.

[Defense Attorney]

He ever came up.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if he ever came up. So I can't say that. I just know my sister Shirley or my sister Carmelita were with me all the time. They just would not let me be alone. And my cousin and my brother in

[Prosecutor]

law Benny, they were with you all the time in the bedroom?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

When did they leave your bedroom?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think they ever did.

[Prosecutor]

They slept there with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

In the same bed?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Where? On the floor?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Is there another bed in there?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Where'd they sleep?

[O.J. Simpson]

On the couch.

[Prosecutor]

In your bedroom?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who slept on that couch that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

My sister Shirley and Benny. I saw them from time to time.

[Prosecutor]

Benny slept in the room too?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Where did he sleep?

[O.J. Simpson]

On the couch.

[Prosecutor]

There are two couches.

[O.J. Simpson]

Was an L shaped couch. Okay.

[Prosecutor]

And so the entire time you were up in your bedroom, from the moment you went up there until the moment you got up in the morning, your sister Shirley was with you, is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And was anyone else with you that entire time?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. For the entire time?

[Prosecutor]

Yeah.

[O.J. Simpson]

Oh, I don't know. I mean, there are people that came and went, as I told you before.

[Prosecutor]

Now, Mr. Ship and you had a discussion that evening about a polygraph test?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall that. No.

[Prosecutor]

Is it your memory that that conversation did not occur?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you say to Ron Ship something to the effect like how long does it take for the blood work to come back or blood tests to come back?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have any conversation with Ship about blood tests or DNA tests?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You're pretty clear on that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask Ship any questions about polygraph tests?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Have you ever taken a polygraph test?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

I was going to say, since the Nicole's death, have you taken a polygraph?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you and Ship discuss anything about polygraph tests?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell Ron Ship, in reference to your statement to Van Adder and Lang about weird thoughts that you were having weird thoughts? Thoughts that he might kill Nicole?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell Ron Ship that you had had a dream about killing Nicole?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you say anything to Ron Ship about dreams that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you say anything to Ron Ship about having weird thoughts about Nicole?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Ron Ship you knew was a former police officer, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. No. He couldn't get back on the force? Yes, I know he. I knew he couldn't get back on the force? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Why did you just add that? I didn't ask you that.

[Defense Attorney]

Don't, don't, don't. Don't answer that question.

[Prosecutor]

Well, Mr. Simpson, you appear to have some animosity towards Mr. Ship. Is that correct?

[Defense Attorney]

Don't answer that either. He doesn't appear to have anything right now.

[O.J. Simpson]

I feel sorry for Ron Ship. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Explain what you mean.

[O.J. Simpson]

I feel sorry that he's a troubled person. And. And I tried to help him before because he had some problems, and I tried to help him, and I feel the same way about him now.

[Prosecutor]

Tell me what problems he has that you feel sorry for.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, the problems I knew he had was drugs and alcohol. And now, obviously, I don't know. I haven't seen him in a year and a half, two years.

[Prosecutor]

When did he have the drugs and alcohol problem that you could cause you to feel sorry for him?

[O.J. Simpson]

Previous to these incidences, when was the

[Prosecutor]

last time that you knew or believed that he had a drug or alcohol problem?

[O.J. Simpson]

Roughly a week or so before Nicole's murders.

[Prosecutor]

How did you find that out?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because he was at my gate

[Prosecutor]

un. Uninvited?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Which gate?

[O.J. Simpson]

Dash for gate.

[Prosecutor]

How did you see him there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't see him.

[Prosecutor]

How do you know he was there?

[O.J. Simpson]

He was on my intercom.

[Prosecutor]

He buzzed?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What did he say?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes, if he can use my Jacuzzi.

[Prosecutor]

What'd you say?

[O.J. Simpson]

Told him Rhonda was in bed.

[Prosecutor]

What time was it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. At night.

[Prosecutor]

Were you alone?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

No. Was the housekeeper there?

[O.J. Simpson]

Maybe. I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

What did he then say?

[O.J. Simpson]

He told me he had a big blonde on the cold type, quote, unquote, you got to see this girl. OJ could he use a Jacuzzi? I told him I didn't think it was on. He told me it was on because he had been there earlier.

[Prosecutor]

When you say you don't think it is on, you can simply turn it on, can't you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. So then what happened?

[O.J. Simpson]

He kept saying, I owe you. Juice, please, man. I owe you. You got to see this, girl. I owe you. Come on.

[Prosecutor]

What does that mean, I owe you?

[O.J. Simpson]

You know, I guess he owes me a favor. He will owe me a favor.

[Prosecutor]

He will owe you if you give him this favor.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Then what happened?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, after he told me it was on, I pushed the gate button for him to come in. Told him to watch the dog.

[Prosecutor]

After he told me it was on.

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[Prosecutor]

Did did he tell you that he knew that the Jacuzzi was on from earlier that day?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Had he been that to your house?

[O.J. Simpson]

Evidently.

[Prosecutor]

Did you know that?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did he have access to your property? No. How did he get on the property earlier that day?

[O.J. Simpson]

Telling anybody? When I was out of town also.

[Prosecutor]

What wall would he climb? The Ashford wall, right next to this gate.

[O.J. Simpson]

Where the. I don't know. I wasn't there to see what part of the wall he climbed.

[Prosecutor]

You had told him he could come on your property and play tennis, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Only if he called first. As a matter of fact, I actually had Kathy have a conversation with him about that.

[Prosecutor]

And when did that conversation occur?

[O.J. Simpson]

In and around that time and on previous times, she's had to tell him, ron, you just can't show up at his house.

[Prosecutor]

Mr. Simpson, when you said you wanted him to call first, did you also want someone else to be home when he arrived?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would prefer that, yes.

[Prosecutor]

So someone could let him in?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. So that. I just don't like a lot of people on my property if I'm out of town. And I was gone most of the time, so. And the housekeepers didn't? Especially Gigi, because she was brand new. She didn't know how to handle it. And she had mentioned it. Evidently she had mentioned it to Kathy and then Kathy had mentioned it to me.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell Mr. Shipp that if no one was home and he wanted to play, he could jump the wall or get on the property?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

So your Understanding of your deal with him is that if. That he shouldn't be jumping the wall and getting on the property to play tennis.

[O.J. Simpson]

I had no deal with him. I don't think anybody should jump my wall without my permission.

[Prosecutor]

And you told him so?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Through random.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

And I told him myself that this was something that happened before.

[Prosecutor]

Now, when he came in and used the driver Jacuzzi, did you see him that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You were in bed, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You came down to see him?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Tell me.

[O.J. Simpson]

At one point he went to my intercom system out back, buzzed me from the Jacuzzi well in the backyard and buzzed me and said, choose, please, man, you got to help me out here. I need a bottle of wine. I think I was speaking with Kathy Randa at that time and on the phone. I said, I'm on the phone. And he said, once again, this whole thing. And he described this girl as a Nicole type. You gotta see her. And I said, ryan, I don't even know if I have any wine. He said, oh, come on, Juice, Please, man. So I got up, I went downstairs, I opened one of my patio doors. He walked in and I told him to look in the bar to see if there was some wine. I found a bottle that came in some. One of the Christmas packages or some package somebody had sent me. And I opened it and I gave it to him. And as he was opening, he said, man, you should go see her. And I walked out back and she was, I wouldn't say a Nicole type, but she was a big blonde, real tall. I would say 5:10, 5:11. Blonde girl. And she was in the Jacuzzi and she was talking about what a great property and that she could get used to being here and asked me to get into Jacuzzi. And then Ron was coming out at that period of time and said, come on, man, why don't you join us? And I said, no, man, I got to get up early in the morning. And I went back upstairs.

[Prosecutor]

Were you dressed?

[O.J. Simpson]

Had a robe on?

[Prosecutor]

What color?

[O.J. Simpson]

Dark robe.

[Prosecutor]

The robe usually wore?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Was that robe taken by the police?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Where was it?

[O.J. Simpson]

On the back door of my closet.

[Prosecutor]

Is that a terry cloth rope?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Basically, when you wear it, do you wear it open or closed?

[O.J. Simpson]

Depends. Obviously I didn't have it open because that girl was there, but I don't know. Sometimes open, sometimes closed.

[Prosecutor]

And when you close it, do you tie it?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How far down does it go?

[O.J. Simpson]

Almost a long road to my mid calf, I would say.

[Prosecutor]

How long have you had that row Long time. Where'd you get it?

[O.J. Simpson]

Who knows.

[Prosecutor]

Who gave it to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Who knows?

[Prosecutor]

Did you buy it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I doubt it. I never go to a store and buy robes. No.

[Prosecutor]

What's a Nicole type meaning?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume he was saying an athletic blonde.

[Prosecutor]

She didn't strike you as an athletic blonde?

[O.J. Simpson]

She did. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Well, you said she didn't appear to be in the garden. Nicole type to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, in my opinion, Nicole was much more attractive than she was. But outside of that, she was a big blonde.

[Prosecutor]

So Nicole type to you meant an attract, attractive, athletic blonde?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah, I think if I had to describe Nicole myself, I thought she was a gorgeous, athletic blonde? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

When you went upstairs, is that the last you saw of Ship?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And how did you understand he would exit the property that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

Out the gate, I would presume.

[Prosecutor]

Did he know about how to get in and out of the Ashford gate by pushing it open as you had described?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume somebody also would have known probably to push the button.

[Prosecutor]

Did. Did Ron Shipp see you in the robe?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What's this woman's name?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have no idea.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever see her again?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Is that the first time you'd ever seen her?

[O.J. Simpson]

As far as I know, yes.

[Prosecutor]

You said you don't go to the store to buy robes. Do you buy clothing in the stores?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What stores did you shop in to buy clothing? Three years before McCall's death, 100 of them, five years before.

[O.J. Simpson]

Hundreds of stores.

[Prosecutor]

What clothing do you go and buy?

[O.J. Simpson]

Shirts, shoes, pants, suits.

[Prosecutor]

You buy in Los Angeles clothing stores?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Do you ever make arrangements with the store to go there to shop when? When no one else is around? Never when it's closed or after hours.

[O.J. Simpson]

Never have in my life.

[Prosecutor]

Before Nicole's death, when was the last time you had purchased clothing and store? Do you remember?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When you shop for clothing, do you shop alone?

[O.J. Simpson]

Depends. If somebody's with me, I'm with someone. If somebody's not, I'm not with anyone.

[Prosecutor]

Did Paul ever buy you clothing from time to time?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did Nicole?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

They knew your sizes of some things?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah. You ever shop in any major department stores?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Name some.

[O.J. Simpson]

May Company Emporium. Macy's.

[Prosecutor]

Emporium?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. In New York. Bloomingdale's. What's the other big? Gumballs, gumps.

[Prosecutor]

Gumballs?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. Gimbals, Gumballs? Gimbals, Gimbals, whatever. Gumps, Neiman Marcus, You name it.

[Prosecutor]

Nicole ever shop in these stores? For you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

Nicole, ever shop in Bloomingdale's in New York?

[O.J. Simpson]

For you Possibly.

[Prosecutor]

You and she ever shop together at Bloomingdale's in New York?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Paula, ever shop in Bloomingdale's in New York for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

For me?

[Prosecutor]

Yeah.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

With you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Your con. Your apartment in New York is not far from Bloomingdale's in New York, is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Where. Where exactly is the. Your place in New York City?

[O.J. Simpson]

So 3rd and 65th?

[Prosecutor]

3rd and 65th Street?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Where's the Bloomingdales where you shopped and Nicole shopped and Paul shopped?

[O.J. Simpson]

It's on 59th, 60th, between Lexington and 3rd.

[Prosecutor]

What clothing have you purchased at that Bloomingdale's in New York?

[O.J. Simpson]

Sweaters, suits? No, I don't know if I ever bought a suit. They're overcoats, probably slacks, shoes. That's all I can recall.

[Prosecutor]

What items of clothing has didn't call purchase for you at that Bloomingdale's?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have no idea.

[Prosecutor]

You don't know?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And what about Paula? What did she purchase at that Bloomingdale's store for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if she ever bought me anything from Bloomingdale's.

[Prosecutor]

What kind of shoes did you purchase at Bloomingdale's in New York?

[O.J. Simpson]

Dress shoes. And at one point I think I bought some winter boots.

[Prosecutor]

Winter boots?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

What kind of winter boots?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't. I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You don't know the name?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You're familiar with clothing manufacturers, aren't you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You're a fashion conscious person, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You're in the public eye, right? That's part of your career, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

As being in the public eye? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you like to dress nicely, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you can't tell me the name of the company that made your winter boots.

[O.J. Simpson]

Exactly.

[Prosecutor]

Were they a brand name?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

What about your dress shoes? Were they brand name shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

What kind of dress shoes did you typically buy?

[O.J. Simpson]

Loafers.

[Prosecutor]

Who made those loafers?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You don't know.

[O.J. Simpson]

True.

[Prosecutor]

You can't name a single company that made loafers that you owned?

[O.J. Simpson]

I've never walked into a shoe store in my life and asked for a pair of shoes by name. Unless there were tennis shoes.

[Prosecutor]

Well, I didn't ask that. Didn't ask whether you asked for it by name? I asked whether you knew the name of any of the dress shoes that you have ever purchased at the time she purchase them subsequently? Anytime. Mr. Baker.

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe I've worn some ballies. I believe I had shoes called Ferragamos. I believe I've had. I don't know if they would have been called Stacy Adams. I don't know if wingtips are a brand name or not, or a style.

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[Prosecutor]

I'm not. I'm not limiting my question to loafers, by the way. Any kind of shoe.

[O.J. Simpson]

Other than that, I don't. I couldn't tell you. Reeboks, Nikes, Puma. I can't think of the name of the big Golf Company shoe right now. Foot Joy.

[Prosecutor]

One second.

[Defense Attorney]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Reebok, Nike's, Puma, Foot Joy, FootJoy.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Valley's, Ferragamo, Stacy Adams. Wingtips.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah, sure, sure. I've owned those type of shoes before.

[Prosecutor]

Wingtips is a style of shoe.

[O.J. Simpson]

That's what I know. If it's a brand name without a style, I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Can you think of any other brand names of shoes that you have worn?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Are these the only brand name shoes you have worn?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would know.

[Prosecutor]

Have you worn shoes that you did not know the manufacturer of or the brand name of?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

The answer is you have.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I would assume so since I don't know the names of the shoes. They could have been those. They could have been some other name.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Including Bruno Mahes. Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

That would be in there, Yes. I wouldn't know. I never looked at. I've never seen a pair of Bruno Magli shoes in my closet and I never looked for them.

[Prosecutor]

But Bruno Mai shoes would be in there, Correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know where. I've never.

[Prosecutor]

The only pair, he said Mr. Baker.

[Defense Attorney]

No, but in where. Your question.

[Prosecutor]

Bruno Maglie sh. Shoes would be included in shoes that you have worn that you did not know.

[O.J. Simpson]

No, that's not correct. That's not correct at all. That's not correct at all.

[Defense Attorney]

That's it.

[O.J. Simpson]

That is not what you asked either.

[Prosecutor]

Let me.

[O.J. Simpson]

Not what you asked.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Question. I would as. Let me go back to the one before

[Defense Attorney]

I write.

[O.J. Simpson]

The more it disappears. I don't know which one.

[Prosecutor]

Let me ask you this as.

[Defense Attorney]

Go back. Let's go back and let's read these.

[Prosecutor]

I choose not to. Well, I choose to. It's. It totally supports what I said, but I choose not to. Would you like to have it read? Yes. Okay.

[Defense Attorney]

Don't care what you think.

[Prosecutor]

Totally supports what you think. Would you like me to read it, Mr. Baker? No, I'd like.

[Defense Attorney]

David.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, David, you read it to Mr. Baker. Question. Have you worn shoes that you did not know the manufacturer of or the brand name of? Answer.

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

Question. The answer is you have. Answer. I don't know. I would assume so since I don't know the names of the shoes.

[O.J. Simpson]

They could have been those.

[Prosecutor]

They could have been some other name. Question. Including Bruno Malley's.

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Answer. That would be in there. Yes. I wouldn't know. I've never looked at. I've never seen a pair of Bruno Magli shoes in my closet and I've

[O.J. Simpson]

never looked for them. Question.

[Prosecutor]

But Bruno Magli shoes would be in there, Correct. Okay.

[Defense Attorney]

I don't think it's supports what you said, but that's in the eyes that behold.

[Prosecutor]

I don't expect you to agree. There are some shoes. Withdrawn. There are shoes that you have worn. Withdrawn. I want to limit my questions prior to Nicole's death. Okay. There are shoes that you wore prior to Nicole's death that you did not know that name of the manufacturer or the brand name, Correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Correct.

[Prosecutor]

So you would not know whether such shoes that you did not know the name of were Bruno Molly's? Correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Has anyone purchased any shoes? Did Nicole ever purchase shoes for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Anyone ever purchase shoes for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Who usc? The Buffalo Bills? I can't think of anyone else. 49ers. 49ers. No. By then you. I was supplying my own shoes.

[Prosecutor]

Shoes for personal use. Home use, I mean. Not athletic shoes.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

No one. But you bought shoes for yourself, is that what you're saying?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Was that true? Five years. For five years up before Nicole's death.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever. And you, did you ever buy shoes that you knew were Bruno Molly shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

How do you know that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I know. If Bruno Magali makes shoes that look like the shoes they had in court, that's involved in this case. I would have never worn those ugly ass shoes.

[Prosecutor]

You thought those were ugly ass shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Why were they ugly ass shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because in my mind they were.

[Prosecutor]

What about them was ugly, Mr. Simpson?

[O.J. Simpson]

The look of them, the style of them.

[Prosecutor]

What? What about the style?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. They were ugly to me. Aesthetically, I felt that they were ugly and I guess beauty is an eye to beholder and to me they were ugly shoes.

[Prosecutor]

Were they dress shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

They didn't appear to be.

[Prosecutor]

What did they appear to be?

[O.J. Simpson]

All purpose casual shoes.

[Prosecutor]

Do you. Did you own prior to June 12, 1994 all purpose casual shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you own any dark all purpose casual shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You don't remember the all the all purpose casual shoes that you owned as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, it's all purpose is what throws me.

[Prosecutor]

Well, that was your word.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. Well, no, I would say. No, I didn't. Then.

[Prosecutor]

You didn't what?

[O.J. Simpson]

Wear the type of shoe that. The type of shoe I saw in court. Bruno Magaly shoe that I saw in court seemed to be the type of shoe that you can wear in anything but rain. To me, that's what they look to be.

[Prosecutor]

Why couldn't you wear it in rain?

[O.J. Simpson]

They didn't look like they were waterproof to me. And. But they also look like shoes you can wear on a normal day. Also.

[Prosecutor]

You have shoes like that, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I think the type of shoes that I wear like that I wear for rain and cold.

[Prosecutor]

What casual shoes did you own as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I consider all my locals casual shoes.

[Prosecutor]

Loafers.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Did you own any shoes that were not loafers, that were casual shoes of the type those Bruno Molly's were that you saw in court?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And by what I mean of the type, I don't mean that you couldn't wear them in rain or could wear them rain, but just generally casual shoes. All purpose casual shoes, excluding like fancy dress shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

So all of your casual shoes that you owned in as of June 12, 1994 were loafers, is that what you're saying?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You own no tie shoes.

[O.J. Simpson]

But I do have tie shoes.

[Prosecutor]

Yes, but they're all dress shoes.

[O.J. Simpson]

For me they're dress shoes. When I wear a tie shoe, it's for dress.

[Prosecutor]

How many pairs of Shoes did you own as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

A lot.

[Prosecutor]

How many?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Give me your best approximation.

[O.J. Simpson]

20 to 40.

[Prosecutor]

Are you including the golf shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

I. Yeah, I guess you can throw those in there.

[Prosecutor]

Are you. Would that increase the 20 to 40? 40?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I don't think so. Just all shoes, 20 to 40.

[Prosecutor]

Let's exclude golf shoes. How many shoes did you own as of June 12th?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have absolutely no idea.

[Prosecutor]

Let's exclude Reeboks and Nike and other tennis shoes. By tennis shoes, I mean shoes that you could play tennis or basketball with.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

How many shoes, excluding athletic shoes, did you own as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Give me your best approximation. I can't. Simpson.

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't.

[Prosecutor]

20 to 40, possibly. Now, of those 20 to 40 shoes, how many were loafers?

[O.J. Simpson]

I couldn't tell you.

[Prosecutor]

What's your best approximation?

[O.J. Simpson]

I can give you approximation. I would say the majority, though.

[Prosecutor]

Of the 20 to 40 shoes, how many were dress shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would say I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Give me your best to process.

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't. I can't. I can't do that.

[Prosecutor]

Why not?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I just can't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Where were these shoes kept in your home?

[O.J. Simpson]

My closet.

[Prosecutor]

The closet you've already described. Described?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. Now you're talking about la, right?

[Prosecutor]

Well, did you have shoes in other locations?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Where?

[O.J. Simpson]

New York and Laguna.

[Prosecutor]

Have you ever bought shoes in Bloomingdale's in New York and taken them back to Los Angeles?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Including New York Lagoon and Los Angeles. This. Shoes that you're owned were roughly 20

[O.J. Simpson]

to 40 in this. I'm just guessing. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And all the shoes in Los Angeles were kept in your closet, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

In your bedroom?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

No shoes were in the garage or anywhere else?

[O.J. Simpson]

They may have been, excluding golf shoes.

[Prosecutor]

Again, excluding athletic shoes? Golf shoes, yeah, they may have been,

[O.J. Simpson]

but I don't know. But majority, the shoes that I wear are in my closet.

[Prosecutor]

Was there anything about the color of the Bruno Molly shoes that you saw in court that you said made them ugly?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know whether they were a bluish green, I believe, but no. I would maybe. I guess aesthetically, it was the whole thing together were not really a type of shoes.

[Prosecutor]

Wasn't the color necessarily.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Was it the style issue?

[O.J. Simpson]

For the most part, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And what about the style?

[O.J. Simpson]

Just aesthetically? I don't know. I looked at it, I didn't like it. I can look at a suit that's made by the same company and think it's ugly and look at another one and think it's gorgeous. So it was just to me, aesthetically I didn't like the shoe. Nothing specific. It's. I didn't study it, I looked at it and I didn't like the shoe.

[Prosecutor]

Had you ever heard of Bruno Molly shoes as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

The name meant nothing to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Nothing.

[Prosecutor]

Is that correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's correct.

[Prosecutor]

So if someone said Bruno Molly to you as of June 12, 1994, you would have no idea what that meant or what that referred to, is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's correct.

[Prosecutor]

Now you said the majority of your shoes were loafers.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And the others were all shoes that tied. Correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

For the most part, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And describe those shoes to me.

[O.J. Simpson]

They look like regular tie up shoes.

[Prosecutor]

Name all the brand name shoes that you owned or the manufacturers of all the 20 to 40 shoes that you own.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You can't do that. No, there's too many.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know the names of the shoes.

[Prosecutor]

You have no recollection?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's correct.

[Prosecutor]

Can you positively what size shoe does your son Jason wear?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Does he ever wear your shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

He did in the past, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And did you ever wear his shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Not once?

[O.J. Simpson]

Never.

[Prosecutor]

When you said he did in the past, what do you mean by that?

[O.J. Simpson]

In the past? A couple of times when he was a teenager, he used to steal my clothes from time to time.

[Prosecutor]

In five years before Nicole's death, that he wear your shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not that I know of.

[Prosecutor]

Get the trial. Did you ever buy any gloves at your buying gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure I did, yes.

[Prosecutor]

You used gloves in course of your work for television, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

For example, in inclement whether at football games you might have to wear gloves when you're on the field interviewing athletes, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Or holding an umbrella?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct. Correct.

[Prosecutor]

What kind of gloves did you own for that purpose within the five years before Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Can you describe them to me?

[O.J. Simpson]

Nice gloves, blue black gloves, brown gloves, basically. And maybe once in a while some. That's tan in. In there.

[Prosecutor]

Did you buy those gloves yourself?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure I have over the years, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did Nicole ever buy any for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't ever recall her ever buying me gloves, no.

[Prosecutor]

Did Nicole ever give you gloves for a gift?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not that I ever recall, no.

[Prosecutor]

Did anyone ever give you gloves for a gift five years prior to Nicole's?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not that I ever. Well, no, not that I ever recall, no.

[Prosecutor]

Are you. Can you positively say that Nicole knew never bought you gloves as a gift.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall her ever buying me gloves as a gift. Yes, I think I can say that.

[Prosecutor]

Yes, you think you can say positive.

[Announcer]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report Apple. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time, scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[Prosecutor]

If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

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[O.J. Simpson]

the products you need all in one place.

[Announcer]

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[O.J. Simpson]

left on on the clock.

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[O.J. Simpson]

Call 1-800-granger.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Visit granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Prosecutor]

Typically that she never did.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Your size was extra large, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

It depends.

[Prosecutor]

Depends on what?

[O.J. Simpson]

His own the glove.

[Prosecutor]

Some of the gloves were extra large sizes, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

You owned gloves as of June 12, 1994 that were extra large size, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure, yes.

[Prosecutor]

How many pairs of gloves did you own as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Give me your best estimate.

[O.J. Simpson]

I couldn't.

[Prosecutor]

More than 50?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

More than 10?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

What? More than 5?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Why don't you know?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I lose gloves and people NBC would have to get get me gloves from time to time because I would lose gloves and I didn't know if they were in New York or in LA or where they might have been. So I don't really know what gloves I had.

[Prosecutor]

Let's talk about gloves at Rockingham. How many gloves did you own and have at Rockingham as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

More than 5?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have no idea.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have so many that you can't remember? Is that, is that what you're saying?

[O.J. Simpson]

I just, just don't know what glove, what ski gloves I had, what gloves are there? I didn't go in my closet and look for gloves and count gloves.

[Prosecutor]

Where were all the gloves kept in your house at Rockingham? That you owned as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

That I know of. In my closet. In another closet outside of my main closet. You're talking about Rocky. In my closet. In my closet, outside of my. Outside of my main closet, there's another closet that I keep mostly ski equipment.

[Prosecutor]

Had you used the ski gloves for work within five years before Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

Those ski gloves, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Possibly the ones at your Rockingham house?

[O.J. Simpson]

Possibly.

[Prosecutor]

Where's that closet? Is it outside your bedroom?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, it's in my bedroom. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And the other closet is the big walk in closet that apparently is cavernous, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And there's a place where gloves are filed but not filed working too long. Place where gloves are maintained. There now.

[Defense Attorney]

You mean in the big closet or the space next to the big closet?

[Prosecutor]

The big closet.

[O.J. Simpson]

Okay. I think there's a drawer that they put my gloves in. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who's they?

[O.J. Simpson]

Normally? My housekeepers.

[Prosecutor]

Where do they get the gloves from?

[O.J. Simpson]

If I brought them from New York when I get wet clothes I bring back from New York and they may not have been any gloves involved in that. They unpack for me and put them in various drawers and hang up various clothes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, now focusing on gloves. Where would your housekeepers put your gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

In a drawer. I don't. Can't recall if it's a top or second drawer in my bedroom.

[Prosecutor]

Bedroom closet?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And then is there some other area where they would put gloves or where gloves were kept?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Where is that?

[O.J. Simpson]

In a closet outside of my cavernous closet, as you described it.

[Prosecutor]

Anyplace else?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not that I know of.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, did. What were the. The names of the gloves or the manufacturers or brand names of the gloves that you owned as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Can't identify any.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

So whatever they were, you just. You just didn't know, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Were any of them Aris Light Isotoner gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You don't know one way or the other, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Exactly.

[Prosecutor]

In other words, they could have been.

[O.J. Simpson]

They could have been, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Let me mark some exhibits. What are we up to?

[O.J. Simpson]

54.

[Prosecutor]

I will mark. What was trial exhibit 606e as exhibit 54. I will mark as exhibit. Don't run away with my exhibits. I'll mark as Exhibit 55. I was looking for my advance. Trial exhibit 606F. I will mark as exhibit 56. Trial exhibit issues.

[O.J. Simpson]

Why.

[Prosecutor]

1371?

[O.J. Simpson]

At least I had my act together. Yeah, it's a dark blue to me, like the Colt.

[Defense Attorney]

You know, I melted with the colorblind in brown.

[Prosecutor]

Black.

[O.J. Simpson]

So I get that.

[Prosecutor]

They let me into this and then kicks me out at the end.

[Defense Attorney]

They told me you're too colorblind to do what you've been doing for three

[Prosecutor]

and a half years. This one is it perfect.

[Defense Attorney]

You guys figure it's a three and a half years.

[Prosecutor]

Just look at these. I've given you exhibits 54, 55 in 56. We have to take 56 out of the wrapper here, so you can see the gloves. Now, looking first at exhibits 54 and 55, you see the gloves that you're wearing in those photographs?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you saw these photographs in court, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And those are brown leather gloves, Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

They appear to be. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

The One in Exhibit 56 is black. Correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Pair of black leather gloves. Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

First of all, what do you know the year in which the photos were taken? Here it's exhibits 54 and 55.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you give me a best estimate of the. Of the year in which you were conducting the interview that's depicted in those photos?

[O.J. Simpson]

90.

[Prosecutor]

1990?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How do you. How do you know it's 90?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because Sam Weitz is in Cincinnati. Bingo. Sorry. Because Sam Weitz is in Cincinnati. Bingo. I don't know. It's 90. I'm guessing at 90. But he's in Cincinnati Bingo clothes.

[Prosecutor]

So he would have had to have been the coach of the Bengals.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who's that? Boomer Sison?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Next to him. Did I impress you, Mr. Baker?

[Defense Attorney]

You did.

[Prosecutor]

And what about the exhibit 56?

[Defense Attorney]

But you could do that for four

[O.J. Simpson]

and a half days?

[Prosecutor]

Did. What year is that, Mr. Simpson?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have no idea.

[Prosecutor]

Can you date it at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

After 1989 or after.

[Prosecutor]

And how do you date that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I'm working with NBC.

[Prosecutor]

And that's. When did you begin to work for them?

[O.J. Simpson]

1989.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know where the photo was taken, Mr. Simpson?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell by looking at the. The coat, the tie, anything like that?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Or the gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Or the background, which you can't really see too well in this picture?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, now focusing on exhibits 54 and 55, where you're wearing the brown leather gloves. Do you know what the make of those gloves is?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You know if they're Aris Isotoner gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Would you. Would you have recognized Aris Isotoner gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know where you got the gloves that are depicted in exhibits 54 and 55?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know who gave them to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know whether you bought them?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'M sure I must have. Why do you think? Because I don't recall anybody else ever buy me glove. But NBC.

[Prosecutor]

Did NBC buy them for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Possibly.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know?

[O.J. Simpson]

Possibly.

[Prosecutor]

Have you looked into that?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Have you asked NBC if they did?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

What is the basis on which you say NBC possibly might have given you those brown leather gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because on a few occasions we were in cold weather and I had lost my gloves and. And the producer of whatever the show was would get a runner or somebody to get me some gloves. And on a few occasions, the guy who pulls the string, the electrician would give me his gloves.

[Prosecutor]

And would you give them back after you completed the. Your use of them?

[O.J. Simpson]

If the electrician gave me his. I believe I gave him his back. The other ones, if they bought them for me, I just kept them.

[Prosecutor]

Now, looking at the gloves in exhibits 54 and 55, is it your testimony that those gloves were given you by an electrician?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know if they were?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would say no. These. I would say no.

[Prosecutor]

Those were gloves that you knew that you owned yourself, Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, I'm saying I know the electrician didn't get me these.

[Prosecutor]

However you got those gloves, those were gloves that were yours and remained yours, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

I'm talking about the gloves in 54 and 55.

[O.J. Simpson]

I would think so, yeah. I would think so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And the black gloves in Exhibit 56 are not gloves you got from an electrician, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would believe they're not.

[Prosecutor]

Okay.

[Announcer]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

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[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so. They were pretty beat up.

[Prosecutor]

Now, looking at the gloves in exhibit 54, 55, the brown gloves.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell me where you got those gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell me how you got Those gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell me in what city you obtained those clubs?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

In what store?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell me how much they cost?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell me when you acquired them?

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

No.

[Prosecutor]

How you acquired them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell me where they are now?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Why are they in your closet?

[O.J. Simpson]

I haven't seen them.

[Prosecutor]

Have you. Have you checked?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Why not?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I assume the police check.

[Prosecutor]

Did the police find them?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

As of June 12, were those gloves in your closet and you're talking about in Los Angeles?

[Defense Attorney]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Anywhere?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Why don't you know?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I wasn't looking for gloves on June 12th.

[Prosecutor]

So as of June 12th, you were not looking for gloves on June 12th?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. The weather here was very good.

[Prosecutor]

As of June 12th, 1994, do you know where the gloves that are depicted in the exhibits 54 and 55 were located?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

If they were located in Rockingham, they would be in the areas you previously described on the second floor in or near your bedroom, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would imagine so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know what size those gloves are in exhibits 54 and 55?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you own gloves like the gloves, gloves depicted in 60 exhibits 54 and 55? Honor about June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Why don't you know?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I wasn't looking for gloves.

[Prosecutor]

But did you know whether or not, as of June 12, 1994, you owned gloves like the ones in exhibits 54 and 55?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Can you positively say that you did not own those gloves as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell us where you got the glove, the gloves depicted in Exhibit 56?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell us how you got them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When you got them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Where you got them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell us who gave them to?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Defense Attorney]

Somebody gave them.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell them. Tell me if you bought them, where you bought them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

How much you paid?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell me where they were located as of June 12, 1994? Can you tell me, if they were at Rockingham, would they be in the areas that you described that are near your bedroom?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you own gloves? What? Did you own those gloves depicted in Exhibit 56 as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you own gloves like the ones in Exhibit 56 as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Can you positively say you did not own the gloves depicted in Exhibit 56 as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you. Did you own more than one pair of gloves as of June 12, 1994? Excuse me?

[O.J. Simpson]

You told me not to assume, so. I can't assume so. I don't know how to answer that.

[Prosecutor]

You don't know whether you owned one more than one pair of gloves as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, you told me not to assume, so I can't.

[Prosecutor]

Do you believe you did?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Okay.

[Prosecutor]

And do you believe that you owned more than one pair of gloves as of June 12, 1994, like the ones depicted in Exhibit 54 and 55?

[O.J. Simpson]

Like them?

[Prosecutor]

Yes.

[O.J. Simpson]

Brown leather gloves or black gloves? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And like the black gloves depicted in 56?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Get a lot of free legal advice.

[Defense Attorney]

And you were critical of me for passing notes yesterday.

[O.J. Simpson]

Come on.

[Prosecutor]

Well, I'm not.

[O.J. Simpson]

No one said it was free. Danish.

[Prosecutor]

Oh, okay. I don't know why he's getting Peter. Sir? I need those other. Those glove photos. Sid. Mr. Simpson, do you. Do you know what sizes the gloves are in the exhibit depicted in exhibits 54 and 55?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Extra large?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

That was your normal size, right? For gloves of the type depicted in Exhibit 54 and Exhibit 55?

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't say that. I can't answer that. No.

[Prosecutor]

Why not?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I don't know what the gloves were.

[Prosecutor]

You liked tight fitting gloves, didn't you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not necessarily. No.

[Prosecutor]

But for use and work you did, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not necessarily. I like warm gloves.

[Prosecutor]

Warm gloves and gloves that fit snugly, Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, you know, you want them to fit. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You don't want gloves for purposes of work when you're holding a microphone and so forth that are loose and you can't get sufficient dexterity, Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, they're not warm. I don't want to wear them.

[Prosecutor]

But you're not going to wear big, loose gloves that are warm, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

But you normally didn't. Right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I wore warm gloves.

[Prosecutor]

We wore warm gloves that fit snugly. Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

If they fit, they fit. If they don't fit, they don't fit. I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Seems like I've heard that before.

[O.J. Simpson]

Then you must equip. Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

I have a different theory, though. Anyway, those gloves that you see in exhibits 54 and 55 fit you correctly?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And the glove and in 50 exhibit 56 fit you? Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

Better? It appears, yes.

[Prosecutor]

What was this? What was the size in Exhibit 56?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

What's your best estimate?

[O.J. Simpson]

XL. Double XL.

[Prosecutor]

XL means extra large, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Double XL means double, double, extra large.

[Prosecutor]

And what about the glove sizes in

[O.J. Simpson]

Exhibit 54 would be my same guess.

[Prosecutor]

Extra large or double extra large?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Now, why double extra large?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because some gloves I have to wear double xl. I'm sorry? Because some gloves I have to wear double xl.

[Prosecutor]

Which gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

Golf gloves.

[Prosecutor]

Golf clubs.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Announcer]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment. You've got to see for yourself that that's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

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[Prosecutor]

Okay, let me show you. Has the next exhibit in order? What are we on? 57? Picture of some gloves at the that are currently in the possession of lapd sid scientific investigation division. Same thing with exhibit 58. Yes.

[O.J. Simpson]

Black or brown?

[Prosecutor]

Same thing with exhibit 59. These are all pictures of gloves at SID did I. Did I get you same thing with exhibit 60?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah, I did.

[Prosecutor]

Exhibit 61, exhibit 62, exhibit 63, and exhibit 64. Mr. Simpson, I've shown you exhibits 57, 57 through 64, which are copies of photographs in the possession of LAPD's Sid taken from your residence at Rockingham. Do you recognize these gloves from the pictures?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

They are gloves that you owned as of just June 12, 1994, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, I recognized them from seeing them in court. I would not have any independent record recognition of these gloves if I hadn't seen them in court and it was purported that they were mine.

[Prosecutor]

In other words, as of June 12, 1994, you own these gloves, but you didn't have any particular recollection of them, is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's a June 12th. I have no recollection of them. They showed them to me in court and said they were from my house and.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah, but looking at the gloves, you don't have any reason to believe that they were not your gloves, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And you see that the sizing of these gloves is extra large?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Defense Attorney]

Sizing of these gloves. I see it on one.

[Prosecutor]

Which one? Mr. Baker?

[Defense Attorney]

Okay. Thank you. I see it on 58, but I don't see it on anything else. I may miss it, Mike.

[Prosecutor]

57.

[Defense Attorney]

Okay. I think that shows the same glove, right? Yeah, it shows the same glove. At least it would so up here.

[Prosecutor]

And where. Where were these gloves maintained? At your house in Rockingham. Do you know?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. If I had to guess. No, you don't want me to guess.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know where you got each of these pairs of gloves? No. Do you know how you got them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You know the manufacturer of them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You know when you got them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know whether you used any of these gloves for work?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know how old each of these pairs of gloves is?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Are these all the gloves? Withdrawn.

[Defense Attorney]

Can we take a short break?

[O.J. Simpson]

I do. Can I correct something on the record also?

[Defense Attorney]

Sure, go ahead.

[O.J. Simpson]

My son kept ski clothes at my house also, so there is a possibility that those which appear to be ski gloves could have possibly been a pair of his.

[Prosecutor]

Can you look through the photographs and tell me which ones you're referring to, Mr. Simpson?

[O.J. Simpson]

The ones that look more like ski gloves. But these could be, too. I don't know all the.

[Prosecutor]

I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know what ski gloves look like because I'm not a skier. But Mr. Baker's pointing to exhibits.

[O.J. Simpson]

I would say all of them.

[Prosecutor]

Well, Mr. Baker pointed to 62 and 65. Now, are you saying, Mr. Simpson, all of the gloves are ski gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

Could be, yes. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

So you're saying none of these gloves was yours?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there's a possibility that they could be my sons. And there's. Obviously, they could be mine. I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

It could be yours, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Very well.

[Prosecutor]

Could be yours. You don't know for a fact that they're your sons, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay.

[O.J. Simpson]

I just want to alert you that there is that possibility. But they are, as Mr. Baker has

[Prosecutor]

reminded us, anything is possible. We can take a break now. Yeah, I don't know what I would do. Listen, Mr. Simpson, up off the record, I pre marked exhibit 65 through 70. You have those photographs in front of you. They are pictures of what this looks like.

[O.J. Simpson]

What has been described as a watch cap, all blue or black. And this appears to be. Well, those. I don't know if you said both names.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah, it looks like two different watch caps here.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Exhibits 68, 69 and 70 are blue. Watch cap.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

And 66.

[O.J. Simpson]

Blue or black? I guess I can't tell.

[Prosecutor]

65, 66, 67 appear to be like a black and white watch cap.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. Or blue and white. One or the other.

[Prosecutor]

These I will represent to you. Or pictures taken of watch caps at the LAP CDs SID facility, apparently taken from your home. Do you own these two watch caps?

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't. I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

As of June 12, 1994, did you own the watch caps depicted in these in exhibit 65 through 70?

[O.J. Simpson]

You know, I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you own watch caps as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

We get to that. So I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Well, when you say assume, do you believe you had hats of the sort or caps of the sort depicted in Exhibit 65 through 70 as of June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would imagine so.

[Prosecutor]

And where would they have been kept at your house at Rockingham?

[O.J. Simpson]

In a ski closet.

[Prosecutor]

And where is that ski closet?

[O.J. Simpson]

Outside of my main closet.

[Prosecutor]

Is that where the ski clubs also would have been?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And do you wear hats or caps such as these depicted in Exhibit 65 through 70 for skiing?

[O.J. Simpson]

When I skied, yes.

[Prosecutor]

As of June of 1994, were you still skiing?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When did you stop skiing?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would. I'm guessing late 80s.

[Prosecutor]

And what use of watch caps, of your watch caps did you make from the time you stopped skiing through June of 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

When you say my watch caps. These aren't all my watch caps. I don't think.

[Prosecutor]

These are. Not yours.

[O.J. Simpson]

That's a girl's watch cap there. How can you tell the color? I believe it's Nicole's.

[Prosecutor]

You recognize it as Nicole's?

[O.J. Simpson]

I know she had one like that. Yes,

[Prosecutor]

you. For the record, you are. You're referring to exhibits 65, 66 and 67. And with reference to 68, 69 and 70, what use did you make of that watch cap from the time you stopped skiing in the late 80s until June of 1980?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if this is my watch cap, but I didn't make use of any watch cap in that period of time.

[Prosecutor]

The watch caps like the one in exhibit 69, 60. I keep missing the first 68 through 70 that you did have as of June of 1994. What use were you making if I

[O.J. Simpson]

had a watch cap at this time? No use.

[Prosecutor]

Would you just. In your closet or your ski drawer?

[Defense Attorney]

Ski closet.

[Prosecutor]

Ski closet, yes.

[O.J. Simpson]

With all the other ski clothes that I was making no use of.

[Prosecutor]

But you can't say for positively that you did not have the ski cap, the watch cap identified in exhibit 68 through 70? Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

What size. What size hat did you wear in June of 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

What size watch cap did you wear?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Do you have a general sense of what size your you wore for hats or caps in June of 1994?

[Defense Attorney]

Large.

[Prosecutor]

You have a large head?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Do you have a nickname as a result of having a large head?

[O.J. Simpson]

I had one.

[Prosecutor]

What was it?

[O.J. Simpson]

Headquarters.

[Prosecutor]

Excuse me?

[O.J. Simpson]

Headquarters.

[Prosecutor]

Headquarters. When did you have that nickname as a.

[O.J. Simpson]

As a kid?

[Prosecutor]

What was. And what's in terms of numbers like size 10, size 8, size 9? Which size hat do you wear?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Have any estimation of that, Mr. Simpson?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you tell by looking at exhibit 68 through 70 whether that's the size of hat that you wear?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Does size 8 and a half seem right to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Defense Attorney]

Is that a size that's eight and a half inches? Is that how they do it?

[Prosecutor]

I don't know.

[Defense Attorney]

I don't either.

[Prosecutor]

I don't think so because I think

[O.J. Simpson]

it's one size fit all.

[Defense Attorney]

It seems too logical.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, here you go. Did you own any dark sweat suits as of June of 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

None all?

[O.J. Simpson]

None.

[Prosecutor]

You're positive?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Why?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I didn't wear sweatsuits.

[Prosecutor]

So you own none at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

What do you. What do you consider to be a sweatsuit?

[O.J. Simpson]

Sweatsuit. Sweatpants. Classic sweatpants. Classic sweatshirt.

[Prosecutor]

What clothing did you wear in June of 1994 for exercising?

[O.J. Simpson]

What? Tight. What they call. They look like bicycle pants.

[Prosecutor]

Spandex.

[O.J. Simpson]

Spandex? Yes. Spandex shorts.

[Announcer]

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[Prosecutor]

Up.

[Announcer]

March Madness is here and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

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Tyler redick here from 23xi Racing. Another checkered flag for the books. Time to celebrate with Chumba T. Jump [e-mail]. let's jumba. No purchase necessary btw group void where prohibited by law. CTNC21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[Prosecutor]

What long pants, if any, did you wear for exercising? I didn't at no time.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you wear any exercise clothes on your exercise Video that you made in May of 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so.

[Prosecutor]

What did you wear?

[O.J. Simpson]

Whatever they gave me.

[Prosecutor]

What did they give you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Was it long pants or short pants?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe they were short pants.

[Prosecutor]

Did you wear any long pants?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Whatever they gave you, did you keep.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You gave it back to them?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes, I believe so.

[Prosecutor]

To whom did you give it back?

[O.J. Simpson]

Whoever was in charge of wardrobe and stuff there.

[Prosecutor]

As Of June of 1994, did you own any athletic wear, dark in color, long pants?

[Defense Attorney]

I don't know what you mean by athletic. Where anything like he said that he

[Prosecutor]

used anything you would work out with or participate in athletic events or sports, as opposed to slacks you would wear

[O.J. Simpson]

to go someplace, excluding golf clothes, I assume.

[Prosecutor]

I think we can exclude golf because you wear kind of normal slacks for golf.

[Defense Attorney]

No, it's absolutely obligatory that you wear the ugliest pants ever made.

[Prosecutor]

Okay.

[Defense Attorney]

He doesn't, but a lot of golfers do.

[Prosecutor]

Well, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing, you understand? Can you differentiate between golf pants and other athletic pants?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, well, put aside golf pants, did you own any dark athletic pants pants?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not that I'm aware of, no.

[Prosecutor]

No long athletic wear, tight pants at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not that I'm aware of.

[Prosecutor]

When you say not that you aware of. You could have owned some such pants, but not be aware of it?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And how could that have happened?

[O.J. Simpson]

It's like all the ski clothes. I have no idea what's in that ski closet, but you guys pulled some caps and some. Some gloves from there. I wouldn't have known because I haven't looked in that closet in years. Okay.

[Prosecutor]

By the way, we didn't pull this.

[O.J. Simpson]

This was whoever did.

[Prosecutor]

Taken from your home by the lapd?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And,

[Defense Attorney]

hey, by the way, just. Can we get a stipulation, at least get these golf clubs back?

[Prosecutor]

I guess we can talk about that. I don't know where they are.

[O.J. Simpson]

I. I do.

[Prosecutor]

They're in evidence, I think, right? They're not at s. They're not at the lapdsid. I think they're in. They're a trial court exhibit. Anyway. Those are Callaway golf clubs?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

In evidence?

[O.J. Simpson]

I guess so. I'd like to have them, though.

[Prosecutor]

Let me ask you a question about those golf clubs.

[Defense Attorney]

Sorry?

[O.J. Simpson]

Take a couple hours behind.

[Prosecutor]

When you last saw those golf clubs is when you packed them, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

What do you mean, the clubs?

[Prosecutor]

Yeah.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

That was on the evening of June 12, 1994, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

When you put the golf Clubs in the golf cover bag. It's the last time you. You saw those golf clubs, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

The clubs, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And when that bag. That bag was checked in at the airport to go onto the airplane, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

When you arrived in Chicago, you were picked up by a Hertz representative named Merrill, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

And you knew Meryl from before, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

How did you know his name was Meryl when I just said it?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because he was in court.

[Prosecutor]

So Merrill picked up your golf clubs and. And you and the rest of your luggage and put it all in his trunk, right? Yes. And what happened to they took you right to o' Hare Plaza?

[O.J. Simpson]

If that was a hotel? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And then when you got out, what luggage came out with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

My grip, my Louis Vuitton bag and my suit.

[Prosecutor]

And you left the golf clubs, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And in the golf clubs was that blue grayish bag that you had already consolidated, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assume so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And where did you understand the golf club clubs were going?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, they would have eventually been on my golf cart. When we started to play golf, what

[Prosecutor]

time was your tea time?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. Roughly noon.

[Prosecutor]

Where?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

How are you going to find out where to go to play golf?

[O.J. Simpson]

He was going to pick me up and take me.

[Prosecutor]

What time did you set for him to pick you up?

[O.J. Simpson]

10:30 or 11, I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

The next morning?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You were going to start sleep for.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, that morning.

[Prosecutor]

Morning of June 13th?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. I didn't get there to sit something. So to the hotel.

[Prosecutor]

So six something, Chicago time?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

So you were going to sleep for a while?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And then he was going to pick you up?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You're going to leave the rest of your luggage at the hotel and come back, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You're gonna take it all with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And then after golf you were going to an event that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

At the country club where the golf course is?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And then the plan was to. He didn't find Mike Dick to come back to LA that evening, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. If I didn't get into another golf game, I would have come back to LA that evening.

[Prosecutor]

And you had a reservation, Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

On the plane? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What time that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

And what instructions did you give Meryl to do with respect to your golf clubs?

[O.J. Simpson]

None.

[Prosecutor]

Did you understand that Meryl knew what to do? Yes. How did you know that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, he's going to pick me up the next day. We're going to the golf course.

[Prosecutor]

I see. So you understood that When Meryl picked you up, the clubs would still be in his trunk?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

At the same car?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How did you know that would be the same person picking you up at the. At the hotel?

[O.J. Simpson]

He told me.

[Prosecutor]

He said, Mr. Simpson, I'm gonna be the same person picking you up?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

If he told you he. Some other person was going to pick you up, would you have then taken your club's with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

More than likely, yes. Unless he was going to the golf course. He could have taken them there.

[Prosecutor]

Where did you understand Meryl was headed during the time you were sleeping? Home. When did you call Mel the next morning to tell them to tell Mel not to pick you up?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have someone do so for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know whether Meryl came to pick you up?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe he was on his way.

[Prosecutor]

On his way when?

[O.J. Simpson]

That morning.

[Prosecutor]

When What? When you left the hotel?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you get any instructions to Merrill that you were leaving unexpectedly?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How did you get those instructions to him?

[O.J. Simpson]

My calling.

[Prosecutor]

Where did you call him from? The hotel before you checked out?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And so you. And where did you reach Merrill?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe that it's home.

[Prosecutor]

How did you get his phone number?

[O.J. Simpson]

He left it with me.

[Prosecutor]

And why did he do that kiss that.

[O.J. Simpson]

Something came up, I guess.

[Prosecutor]

Like what?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You told Merrill that if something came up, you would want to be able to get in touch with him.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And then you got his phone number, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You didn't get his phone number?

[O.J. Simpson]

He gave me his phone number. I was in my travel file, one or the other.

[Prosecutor]

Well, before this occasion, had you ever seen Meryl before?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Had you ever had his number before?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

So you got Meryl's phone number for the first time in the. In the car? Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

It's standard. Whoever I'm dealing with, they leave numbers for me? Yes. Home numbers, whatever. Numbers? Whoever I'm dealing with? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did. What kind of car was it?

[O.J. Simpson]

Some type of truck.

[Prosecutor]

You mean like a Bronco truck?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Utility vehicle?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Wasn't a limousine, in other words?

[O.J. Simpson]

Right.

[Prosecutor]

Or stretcher or a sedan?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

None of those. Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

None of those.

[Prosecutor]

When you got to Chicago, you went down to pick up your luggage, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

At o'? Hare?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you. Did you make any phone calls before you got to the luggage place?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Like any phone calls from the phone booth?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And when you went there, did. Did you go to where the luggage comes down?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you waited for your luggage?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Anybody wait with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

He did.

[Prosecutor]

Meryl was there?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. And a couple of people were Hanging around.

[Prosecutor]

Meryl. Meet you at the gate?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Give autographs?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How many?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Before you got in the car, from the time you got off the plane, how many did you give?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

And can you identify anybody you spoke to?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who?

[O.J. Simpson]

Howard Bingham.

[Prosecutor]

After you got off the plane?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe we spoke in the area.

[Prosecutor]

Baggage area?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you walk down to the area with him?

[O.J. Simpson]

The whole plane was walking down to the area, so I. I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Who's Howard Bingham?

[O.J. Simpson]

A photographer.

[Prosecutor]

A friend of yours?

[O.J. Simpson]

We're friendly, yes.

[Prosecutor]

How long have you known Mr. Bingham?

[O.J. Simpson]

Years. I don't know. Forever, it seems.

[Prosecutor]

You ever take pictures? Of you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

Who's he a photographer for?

[O.J. Simpson]

Muhammad Ali.

[Prosecutor]

Anyone else that I know of?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. Okay.

[Prosecutor]

And you chatted with him?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

When the baggage. Anybody else, by the way, that you can identify that you smoked?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When the baggage came, did you pick it up off the carousel?

[O.J. Simpson]

I might have or he might have, he being Merrill. And I can't recall if baggage guy was there or not. I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And when the baggage got off, did you pick. Pick any of it up yourself?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall. I'm sure I carried something, but I don't know which. What?

[Prosecutor]

Where was the car?

[O.J. Simpson]

Right out front.

[Prosecutor]

Was anyone in it?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Just there, parked?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What did you carry to the car?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall my grip for sure. And I don't know if I grabbed a Louis Vuitton bag or just kept a suit and he grabbed them. I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

The two of you carried all the luggage?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

No. Cart? Yes. Did you do any luggage shifting or changing or consolidation?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When you got to the limousine. Oh. What went where? I'm sorry? When you got to the. The vehicle, what went where?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think everything went in the back.

[Prosecutor]

Except your grip?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think everything went in the back.

[Prosecutor]

You sat in the front seat?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have your cell phone with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you make any phone calls?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did. Was there a phone in the car?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

How long was the drive to the air, to the hotel?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not long.

[Prosecutor]

When did you ask for the phone number?

[O.J. Simpson]

What do you mean?

[Defense Attorney]

He never asked.

[O.J. Simpson]

I never asked for the phone number.

[Prosecutor]

When did you receive the phone number?

[O.J. Simpson]

If it wasn't already in my folder, he gave it to me.

[Prosecutor]

How would it already have been in your folder?

[O.J. Simpson]

Kathy's very efficient, and normally all that information is in my folder. And whatever Letters he had previously written to Kathy. I think a copy of one of those letters was in the folder, too. My travel folder.

[Prosecutor]

Where is that folder?

[O.J. Simpson]

Folder? I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did the police take it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you see it in court?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

What did you do with it in Chicago?

[O.J. Simpson]

What do you mean?

[Prosecutor]

Let me ask you this. Did you come back with that folder?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure it was. Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Where do you keep that folder when you're traveling or where did you keep it? In your grip?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

What is it, like a book?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, it's a.

[Announcer]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA's heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment. You've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Tyler redick here from 23xi Racing. Another checkered flag for the books. Time to celebrate with Chumba. Jump in. [e-mail] let's shamba. No purchase necessary. BTW group void where prohibited by law. CTNC21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[O.J. Simpson]

You know, every. Every trip I take, as you saw with the calendar, she'll fax a calendar and whatever correspondence has to do at that event, put it in a manila envelope, state my tickets there so that I'll know what the heck I'm doing.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have a phone book with you to give you names of people people carried with you in your grip? A telephone book?

[O.J. Simpson]

My normal telephone book, yeah.

[Prosecutor]

You carried that with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I always do, yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Had names of people that you wouldn't call from out of town?

[O.J. Simpson]

You mean names of my friends?

[Prosecutor]

Yes.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And others. Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Now, when you. When you got to the. When you got in the car, what did you tell Mel about the. Is that it, Mr. Baker? Yes, that's the travel.

[Defense Attorney]

This is my travel folder, where I'm supposed to be today. Thank you very much.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Hoping you could help us out. What did you and Meryl talk about on the way to the hotel?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. But you made sure you had his home phone number, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

But you had it, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Meryl told you he would pick you up the next day around.

[O.J. Simpson]

Oh, later.

[Prosecutor]

That day, around 10:30 or so, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you. Did he tell you where he was going to take you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assumed. To the golf course.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Did he tell you what would happen to the car, where the car would be during the intervening four hours?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you discuss with Merrill where he was going?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

After he dropped you off?

[Defense Attorney]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you know that he was going home?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assumed he was, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you discuss that he was.

[O.J. Simpson]

We may. He may have said he was going to get some sleep. What.

[Prosecutor]

What did Meryl do for a living?

[O.J. Simpson]

I gather he worked for Hertz.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask for his work number?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure it would have been in my folder, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you know where Meryl was going to be during the intervening four hours?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When he picked you up, was it. He picked you. He did not pick you. You up, because he. You. You called him, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you reached him at his home?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

What did you tell him?

[O.J. Simpson]

I told him I needed to get back to the airport and could he come get me.

[Prosecutor]

What did he say?

[O.J. Simpson]

He was on his way.

[Prosecutor]

What. And how long did it take for him to get there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did he get there?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Why not?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I saw some other Hertz people there when I was in the lobby, and they took me to the airport.

[Prosecutor]

Did you make arrangements to tell Merrill or to get word to Merrill that you would be gone? As I understand what you're saying, you made it. You asked Merrill to come get you right away, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And before Merrill got there, you. You took another ride, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

So to your knowledge, Merrill was going to arrive and you would not be there, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I wasn't given that much thought at the time, but I assume so.

[Prosecutor]

But your golf clubs would be with him, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you make arrangements with anybody before you hopped in that ride to get your golf clubs back?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. I just told him I'm. You know, them. I need to get to the airport.

[Prosecutor]

Who drove you? A Hertz person just happened to see such a person out in the hotel area.

[O.J. Simpson]

They were arriving. Some. I guess, some clients with some Hertz people.

[Prosecutor]

And when you. When you went down from your room to the lobby, was you were going there to wait for Merrill?

[O.J. Simpson]

That'll get a cab, whichever came first? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Were you able. Did you ask for cab?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Was there a line?

[O.J. Simpson]

They called for one. There was no cabs there.

[Prosecutor]

Did you go to the front desk to check out?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And pay your bill?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think I paid the bill.

[Prosecutor]

No, it was paid By Hertz?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

So what'd you do at the front desk?

[O.J. Simpson]

I asked them could they call me a cab. And? And I asked for a band aid, a bandage.

[Prosecutor]

And who did you ask?

[O.J. Simpson]

Some lady that was there. Some lady that was there.

[Prosecutor]

Was there anything on your finger at the time?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What?

[O.J. Simpson]

Toilet paper.

[Prosecutor]

Anything else?

[O.J. Simpson]

Blood.

[Prosecutor]

What'd you do with the toilet paper?

[O.J. Simpson]

I guess threw it away.

[Prosecutor]

What kind of band Aid? Did the person.

[O.J. Simpson]

Person give you the band aid you

[Prosecutor]

put it on right there?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Right at the front desk?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall. It was either at the front desk or away. A lot of people were trying to check out. I may have walked over a little bit or may have done it at the front desk. I don't remember.

[Prosecutor]

And where did you throw the toilet paper?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. Not on the ground? Not on the floor, I'm sure. Maybe there was a thing for it. You know, cigarette smokers, ashtray thing may have been there.

[Prosecutor]

Who. Who did you talk to at the front desk?

[O.J. Simpson]

Which? Whoever was behind the desk.

[Prosecutor]

You remember?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Man or woman?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe it was a woman.

[Prosecutor]

What, Caucasian?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Did you. Did she testify at court?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think she was. I think she was in town to testify, but I don't know if she ever got on the stand.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell her you were in a hurry?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Asked her for a cab?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

And she said none were available?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, she said she'll call for one.

[Prosecutor]

And then you went outside?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And saw a Hertz person?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

And what did you tell that person?

[O.J. Simpson]

I needed to get to the airport.

[Prosecutor]

What arrangements did you make to get your clubs back at that time?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have any further calls to Merrill the rest of that day?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

What did you do to get your clubs back?

[O.J. Simpson]

What do you mean?

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever get your clubs back? Yes. When?

[O.J. Simpson]

Tuesday, I believe.

[Prosecutor]

And how did they come back to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Evidently, when he got to the hotel, we were already gone. And he came to the airport and got him checked on the flight?

[Prosecutor]

The flight that you were on?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assumed so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

What's the basis for what you just said?

[O.J. Simpson]

He told me this.

[Prosecutor]

The next day you talked to Merrill the next day being Tuesday?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How did that come about?

[O.J. Simpson]

I was in my office speaking with someone else. And Kathy had called him, or he called Kathy. I don't know which one. And? And Kathy told me he was on the phone. And I apologized to him for how rude I was. I felt I was pretty rude to him when I called him that morning.

[Prosecutor]

What did you say to Merrill? When you called that morning, that was rude.

[O.J. Simpson]

I think that morning. I don't think I was rude at all the next day. I wasn't rude that morning. I just said, I need to get out of here and I need to get out of here now. And I think I was very abrupt and I was rude. I was not nice.

[Prosecutor]

You're talking about when you called him from the hotel to come get you right away?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell him that your wife had been killed?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Your ex wife, I should say no. Gave him no explanation?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. The police said that they weren't talking for me not to say anything.

[Prosecutor]

Who told you that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Either Phillips or Lang or whichever one I spoke to that morning.

[Prosecutor]

You don't know who it was?

[O.J. Simpson]

I spoke to a few guys that

[Prosecutor]

morning on the same call. No more than one person called you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I called home a few times

[Prosecutor]

and spoke to the police officers there.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

He's blaming this.

[Defense Attorney]

Thank you. One for yourself.

[Prosecutor]

Did when you got on that airplane, you had no idea one way or the other whether your clubs were over there?

[O.J. Simpson]

Didn't give it a thought.

[Prosecutor]

Did you make any arrangements at all during the trip to the. To the airport to get your clubs? No. Try calling anybody from your phone or anywhere else.

[O.J. Simpson]

For what?

[Prosecutor]

To get your club?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You had all your other luggage with you, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you check it at the stand or did you take it on the plane with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Took it on the plane.

[Prosecutor]

Everything else?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Meaning the grip and Louis Vuitton?

[O.J. Simpson]

Vuitton, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And the suit bag was in the Louis Vuitton?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Anything else? Is that it?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's it.

[Prosecutor]

When you got off the plane, did you. What did you do?

[O.J. Simpson]

You came to the curb.

[Prosecutor]

And was anyone there to pick you up?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who?

[O.J. Simpson]

Leroy Tap and Kathy Randa.

[Prosecutor]

And where did they take you?

[O.J. Simpson]

To? Rock and Hill.

[Prosecutor]

Now, when you. When they picked you up, did you have any discussion about your golf clubs and who they were?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you later find out that they were on the same flight with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, I assumed they were. How? He said he got there before my plane left. And evidently the sky kept it. Done it. I don't know. Maybe it came on a later flight. I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

Well, when did you talk to Merrill next?

[O.J. Simpson]

The next day.

[Prosecutor]

Next day being what, the 14th?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you were at your office?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What time was it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. In the morning, possibly midday? Morning.

[Prosecutor]

And the purpose of your talking to Merrill was to apologize for being rude the day before?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, he was on the phone and I was in My office. I had just finished speaking to, for the first time to Bob Shapiro, and I was in the office, and Kathy said he was on the phone.

[Prosecutor]

And do you know why Merrill happened to be on your office phone?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. Maybe Kathy called him or he called Kathy. I actually. I left no explanation with these people. And maybe she was explaining to him

[Prosecutor]

and, you know, did not know where your clubs were, Right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

And had you thought about getting them back?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You have no idea what time it was when this call with Merrill occurred?

[O.J. Simpson]

Pubnet Day, Morning of the day? One or the other.

[Prosecutor]

And when Meryl then informed you that the clubs got on the plane?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Okay.

[Prosecutor]

And then you hung up with Merrill, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What did you then do to get your clubs back?

[O.J. Simpson]

To get my clubs back?

[Prosecutor]

Yeah. Did you ask someone to go get them for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

What did you do?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't. I don't get it. What did I do?

[Prosecutor]

Did your clubs ever come back to your position in your possession?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How?

[O.J. Simpson]

I picked them up.

[Prosecutor]

When did you pick up your golf clubs?

[O.J. Simpson]

A little later.

[Prosecutor]

Who. Who went with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Bob Kardashian.

[Prosecutor]

Where did you leave from?

[O.J. Simpson]

My office.

[Prosecutor]

Was Bob with you at the office? Bob Kardashian, that is.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Was he with you when you were talking to Merrill?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't. I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

When you left your office? Well, back up. Did Meryl tell you where you could retrieve or where the clubs could be retrieved?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you make any phone calls to determine where the clubs were?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have anybody else do so?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You just got in the car with Kardashian, went to lax.

[O.J. Simpson]

I mean, we went to Nicole's house, but we. Too much press was there, and we started driving. We were waiting for my kids.

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[Prosecutor]

Let me. Let me go back to it. After you left your office, you went in whose car?

[O.J. Simpson]

Bob's.

[Prosecutor]

What kind of car did he have?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

No idea?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And you went directly from your office in Brentwood to Nicole's home on Bundy?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What was your purpose in doing that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I just want to go to her house.

[Prosecutor]

Wanted to see what was going on there?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I just wanted to go to her house.

[Prosecutor]

What did you want to do in Nicole's house?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

How are you planning to enter the house?

[O.J. Simpson]

If somebody was there, I would have rung the doorbell up front.

[Prosecutor]

And if no one was there, I would have left. Did you call first?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you get to the house?

[O.J. Simpson]

We got to the front of it, yes.

[Prosecutor]

On Bundy?

[O.J. Simpson]

Actually, we were on Dorothy.

[Prosecutor]

Dorothy's around the corner?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. At the corner of Bundy and Dorothy.

[Prosecutor]

And what did you do there?

[O.J. Simpson]

There was a lot of media there. And Bob turned left and started down Bundy.

[Prosecutor]

Past the condo?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And then what?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, he's just driving and we were talking.

[Prosecutor]

Decided not to stop in?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And then what did you decide to do then?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think we may have called to see how long it would take for the kids to get here. And. And we were. Bob asked if I wanted to go straight to his house. I told him no, just drive and just drive? Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Nowhere in particular?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. And then we were down Bundy at some area and I said, well, I think I have some bags at the airport or a bag at the airport. And we went to the airport.

[Prosecutor]

What. What bags did you think you had

[O.J. Simpson]

at the airport golf club?

[Prosecutor]

How did you know it would still be there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assumed it would be.

[Prosecutor]

How did you know that Kathy Randa hadn't made arrangements to get it back?

[O.J. Simpson]

I just assumed it would be there.

[Prosecutor]

Did you call Kathy first and say, by the way, did you make arrangements to pick up my club so I don't have to go down there and get them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask someone else to get them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Where were your children?

[O.J. Simpson]

En route from Laguna to Bob's house.

[Prosecutor]

Had they already left when you decided to go to the airport?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think they were about to leave. Leave?

[Prosecutor]

You called down there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so.

[Prosecutor]

From Bob's car phone or.

[O.J. Simpson]

We called Bob's house and Bob said, ac. I just called one or the other.

[Prosecutor]

Your children were with A.C. cowlings?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And who else?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assume the Brown family.

[Prosecutor]

What about Arnel?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so, but could have been But I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

Who took your children to the Brown residence? BC did he go alone?

[O.J. Simpson]

I was in Chicago, so I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you find out later if he took them down there alone?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

He took them down there the evening of. I guess it would be the wee hours of the morning of the 13th.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You know when the children got to the Brown residence?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And you know whether anyone besides Cowlings was there with your children from Brentwood? In other words, did. Did any of your other family members go down to be with the children?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Defense Attorney]

When you say down, do you mean down to Laguna?

[Prosecutor]

Yes.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you talk to Cowlings about getting the kids back to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Pardon me?

[Prosecutor]

You talked to Cowlings about getting the children back to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I must have. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

This is now Tuesday morning, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Had you seen Al Cowlings yet?

[Defense Attorney]

When you say this is now Tuesday morning, what are you talking.

[Prosecutor]

I want to make sure the timing is right here. But this.

[Defense Attorney]

This is now teaching it relative to what?

[Prosecutor]

When you're driving around with Kardashian.

[O.J. Simpson]

Did I what?

[Prosecutor]

When you're driving around with Kardashian.

[O.J. Simpson]

What about it?

[Prosecutor]

What day is this?

[O.J. Simpson]

Tuesday.

[Prosecutor]

Tuesday the 14th, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You got back into town. Town on the 13th, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Had you seen Cowlings yet?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Had you spoken to him?

[O.J. Simpson]

I feel I must have.

[Prosecutor]

Did you call him from the hotel room?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

From the airplane?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

And was he at your house on Monday night?

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't recall.

[Prosecutor]

So Callings was going to take the children to. To Bob's house?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And they were going to be there in about an hour?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Why did you want to just drive around?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I just. That's what I do.

[Prosecutor]

You drive around a lot?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

No place in particular?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How long have you been doing that?

[O.J. Simpson]

My whole adult life.

[Prosecutor]

Where do you like to drive around?

[O.J. Simpson]

It depends.

[Prosecutor]

What are your some. What are some of your more favorite places you like to go?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think there's any favorite place. I just like to get on a freeway and move normally or drive around. That's what I've always done when I've been troubled.

[Prosecutor]

So you. When you decided to go to lax, you didn't know whether you were going to find your golf clubs here, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

True.

[Prosecutor]

And made no effort to find out, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Sure.

[Prosecutor]

And when you got to the airport, what did you do?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think we went to where? Luggage. Lost luggage. And then we Went? I believe they said. I don't know. We went to lost luggage and then we went to wherever the luggage was.

[Prosecutor]

Did you park the car?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, just at the curb.

[Prosecutor]

Did both of you go in?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you make arrangements, not get ticketed?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know how you can do that.

[Prosecutor]

So you just left the car there, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

American Airlines?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Baggage pickup, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Went inside and went where?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think the Lawson found.

[Prosecutor]

What did you tell them?

[O.J. Simpson]

I was looking for a bag and I didn't have a ticket.

[Prosecutor]

What did. Who did you talk to?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Man or woman?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

What? What? Caucasian? African American?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't remember.

[Prosecutor]

What did that person say?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know exactly. Obviously that the bag was to go to the other end or something. I don't. I don't. I don't remember specifically what they said.

[Prosecutor]

Now, did you describe the bag you were looking for?

[O.J. Simpson]

I must have.

[Prosecutor]

What did you say?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm looking for a golf bag.

[Prosecutor]

So that person sent you someplace else?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Where?

[O.J. Simpson]

To the other end of the baggage claim.

[Prosecutor]

And what did you do there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I saw the bag and a guy opened the cage and gave me the bag.

[Prosecutor]

You just saw through the cage?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How did you tell. How did you prove to him that it was your bag?

[O.J. Simpson]

He didn't ask for any proof.

[Prosecutor]

Did he recognize you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

What did you say to him?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't remember.

[Prosecutor]

You know who that person is?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you identify that person? No. Man or woman?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think that was a man.

[Prosecutor]

The bag was in the blue cover bag, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if there was a blue cover bag.

[Prosecutor]

Was the COVID bag right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What did you do with the bag when you got it?

[O.J. Simpson]

Either Bob carried it or I carried it and put in the trunk of his car.

[Prosecutor]

Did you look inside?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you open it?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Not once?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you open to see if everything was in there?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Why not?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I wouldn't. I'm a trusting person. I guess.

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The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time. Scores, race, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Tyler redick here from 2311 Racing. Another checkered flag for the books. Time to celebrate with Chumba. Jump [e-mail] let's Chumba. No purchase necessary. BTW Group void where prohibited by law. CTNCs 21/plus sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[Prosecutor]

He didn't care to see if these were your favorite golf course clubs, right? Yes. In fact, you want them back right now, don't you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Defense Attorney]

You don't have to answer that.

[Prosecutor]

Well, your. Your lawyers ask.

[Defense Attorney]

I want them back.

[Prosecutor]

These are your favorite golf clubs, Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

When I checked the golf club, just

[Prosecutor]

the first time you in your life had gone to an airport the day after you came into town with your luggage to get your golf clubs?

[O.J. Simpson]

Pardon me?

[Prosecutor]

It's the first time you. You made a special trip to the airport to get. Get your golf clubs?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When did that happen before?

[O.J. Simpson]

Many times before.

[Prosecutor]

Many times when you would come back into town with your luggage and your golf clubs not be with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

And you would go back and get them yourself?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Why. Why does that happen so often?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I play so early in the morning and most of the times not only in la, but even when I've been out of la and I want my clubs because I'm a play the next morning and they evidently came in on the next flight and I don't want to wait because I want to play first thing the next morning. So I get up early or later on that night would go get them because normally when they deliver, it's sometime

[Prosecutor]

the next day and you don't send a messenger.

[O.J. Simpson]

That has happened before, too? Yes. I haven't sent them messengers, but they had delivered also, or you.

[Prosecutor]

You might have someone go pick them up for you, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I've never done that.

[Prosecutor]

Never asked Case. Kathy.

[O.J. Simpson]

Never.

[Prosecutor]

Kathy's son works for you too, doesn't she now?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What's his name?

[O.J. Simpson]

Gary. Gary.

[Prosecutor]

Gary Randa.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

He was a member of your defense team? Worked as an investigator or runner?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Is he still.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Has he worked for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

He has worked for me, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Currently?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so. I'm not paying him anyway.

[Prosecutor]

So you went down, you got the clubs, didn't look inside.

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

And then drove where?

[O.J. Simpson]

We may have driven around a little more, but essentially we went to his house. Where did you drive around between his house and the airport.

[Prosecutor]

Did anybody see you, by the way, when you read Bundy?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you slow down and.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Take a look?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. We're at the corner. We're actually on Dorothy at the corner.

[Prosecutor]

Could you tell if anybody was home at Nicole's condo?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you talk to anybody there?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Were pictures taking of. Taken of you there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Have you ever seen any video or photographs of you there with Kardashian?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When you got to the airport, got your clubs, got in the car, did you die? How long did it take you before you got back to your Kardashian's house?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't. I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you drive around a little more before you came back home?

[O.J. Simpson]

We didn't rush straight to his house, but we.

[Prosecutor]

We did not rush straight.

[O.J. Simpson]

We didn't rush straight.

[Prosecutor]

He took a route home other than through the freeway?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

He lives in Encino, Right? Or at that time? Yes, we're in Encino.

[O.J. Simpson]

Encino Hills.

[Prosecutor]

And you know what Rudy took back?

[O.J. Simpson]

Maybe some Polved. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I was not looking at it.

[Prosecutor]

Did you take the freeway down to the airport?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Surface streets?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Well, mostly Barrington.

[Prosecutor]

Straight down?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Most of the way? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

When you got to Bob Kardashian's house, what happened to your golf clubs?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assume they stayed in the golf club at that time.

[Prosecutor]

Did the bag stay in Bob's trunk at that time?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did. When did you take them out?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think he may have taken them out. I did take a club out at one point in time.

[Prosecutor]

When?

[O.J. Simpson]

Sometime in the next two or three days.

[Prosecutor]

At Bob's house?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

To just swing?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

What club was it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Well, when's the next time you saw your golf bag or your golf club clubs after you put them in the trunk?

[O.J. Simpson]

In two or three days. Sometime in those two or three days at Bob's house?

[Prosecutor]

You know if Bob took them out and brought them in the house?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, because they were in the. They were in his garage.

[Prosecutor]

How do you know that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because that's why I got the club out of the bag.

[Prosecutor]

So to your knowledge, someone took them out of Bob's trunk and put him in his garage? Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, his car was in his garage also.

[Prosecutor]

But the bag was out of the trunk in the garage?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. Standing in the. In his garage.

[Prosecutor]

He never went to the golf bag to look into it for any reason?

[O.J. Simpson]

To get a club out? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

When you went to get the club out, was the COVID bag over the golf clubs?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Because you had to unzip the COVID bag?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And did you take it, Take the whole golf bag out of the COVID bag?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. The COVID bag just fell.

[Prosecutor]

Just flipped over, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

And you pulled out your club?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Did you look around at all for anything? No. Did you look at that other blue bag that was in there?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You swung your club in the garage there?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I just kind of. It was like a security thing that I had with me.

[Prosecutor]

And did you put it back in the golf bag?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

And how did the golf. Did you take the golf bag with you when you left Kardashian's house?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

So do you know what happened to it after you last saw it in the garage?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know whether Bob Kardashian or anyone else looked in your golf bag?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Or your cover bag?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have them check it for anything?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know if they did?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You know if there was any blood anywhere on your golf bag?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

On your golf clubs?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

On the COVID bag?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you check me? Yeah.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Were there any knives in there? No. How do you know?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I didn't put any knives in unless they were a pen knife from my keychain.

[Prosecutor]

Did you check?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't have to check. I know. I never put any knives in there other than maybe a pin knife on my keychain.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask anyone to check?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When you got to the LAX on the morning of the 13th, you said Taft and Random picked you up, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you put all. What car was used to pick you up?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe it was Skip's car.

[Prosecutor]

What kind of car is that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

When you got to Skip's car, you put the baggage where?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't. I don't know if he put the Louis Vuitton in the trunk or not. Or in the backseat with Kathy. I just don't remember.

[Prosecutor]

It was just the three of you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And why did they pick you up?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because. I don't know. Because Skip was my friend and Kathy was my friend. And evidently Arnell was distraught the last time I spoke to her. And they were the closest people to me in LA at that time. Ac, what I understand was taking my kids to Laguna.

[Prosecutor]

When they got to the airport in picked you up, did you look in your bags at all before they went into the trunk?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did they?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

So they. And then where did you go from

[O.J. Simpson]

the airport to Rockingham.

[Prosecutor]

Straight to Rockingham?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And did you have conversation in the car about Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure we did.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask, you know, how it happened?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

What did they say? No one knew did they know anything?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

Did they tell you anything at all about Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

I really don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Did they ask you whether you did it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

There was no discussion about that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Did Kathy Randa ever ask you that question?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

You don't recall?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did Kathy Randa ever ask you if you were responsible for Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Wouldn't that be something you would recall, Mr. Simpson?

[Defense Attorney]

That's argumentative.

[Prosecutor]

Can you search your memory, tell me if she ever asked you that question?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Is that the best you can do?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever discuss with Kathy whether you were responsible for Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure after I was arrested, I was telling everybody why they're doing this to me.

[Prosecutor]

Yes, before you were arrested.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

What about Skip Taft?

[O.J. Simpson]

What do you mean?

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever. Did you ever tell him. Let me ask you this. Did he ever ask you if you were responsible for Nicole's death?

[Defense Attorney]

You don't have to answer that.

[Prosecutor]

Not every conversation he has with Skip Taft is privileged.

[Defense Attorney]

Well, you're gonna have to prove it isn't.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, let me ask you a question. Did you have conversations with Skip Taft as a friend, loyal friend of yours for many, many years when he picked you up at the airport? Or were you involved in attorney client communications on that ride home?

[Defense Attorney]

Oh, so sinister attorney client relations on the ride home? Don't answer that question.

[Prosecutor]

Well, that's. I have to have a foundation here, Mr. Banker.

[Defense Attorney]

You're not going to get any answers out of him about what he talked to Skip Taft about.

[Prosecutor]

Oh, is there something about Skip Taff

[Announcer]

that the Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up. March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time, scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Tyler redick here from 2311 Racing. Another checkered flag for the books. Time to celebrate with Chumba. Jump [e-mail]. let's shamba. No purchase necessary. BTW group void where prohibited by law. CTNC 21 plus, sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[Prosecutor]

You know, he's immune from subject of testimony.

[Defense Attorney]

Well, I thought so on the criminal trial because he was an attorney.

[Prosecutor]

Well, let me, let me lay a little foundation on this. Okay, Mr. Baker, wait quickly because I'm getting angry. Okay. When you got in that car and drove home with Randa and Tap, were you involved in attorney client communications?

[Defense Attorney]

Well, I don't that. That calls for a conclusion on the part of this witness.

[Prosecutor]

Well, but it's the only way I can do it, Mr. Mr. Baker.

[Defense Attorney]

No, I don't think you can do it at all, so.

[Prosecutor]

Well, how am I supposed to find out if it's privileged or if it's not privileged? They could have been talking about anything.

[Defense Attorney]

Golf or the NBA.

[Prosecutor]

Mr. Simpson, you know, whether or not you were talking with Taft about legal matters, about lawyer client matters, or whether you, whether you were consulting him for advice or not legal advice, you know, is that true?

[Defense Attorney]

Well, that's. Don't answer that. I mean, that's. Anytime he talks to Mr. Taft about anything that has any legal implications, it's attorney clause.

[Prosecutor]

Can you answer that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, so tell, tell us what you discussed.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if we discussed anything. I think what they were trying to do is, is be there to comfort me.

[Prosecutor]

Right. And did they ask you if you killed Nicole?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think they asked me any questions about killing Nicole, no.

[Prosecutor]

Did they question you at all about it?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell them one way or the other that you did or didn't?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't even think that was a subject matter if I killed anyone at that time. So I don't believe that was a subject matter in anybody's mind at that time.

[Prosecutor]

So the subject of your responsibility or not for Nicole's death never came up with Taft and Rand, is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

They were there to comfort me in that ride. Yes. That's what they were there for.

[Prosecutor]

You had spoken to them quite a bit before you got in that car, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

On the plane?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Lots of phone calls. Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know what a lot of phone calls is and how many I

[Prosecutor]

got through on numerous phone calls. Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

I know I tried to get through to, to them and to people during that period of time.

[Prosecutor]

And also from the hotel. Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

Only. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And during all those phone calls with Taft and Randa, from the moment you found out about the officers called you and told you about Nicole's death, did they ask you whether you had done it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell Them.

[O.J. Simpson]

I never thought that that was a subject that anybody would ever discuss among us. No, I didn't tell them. I never. It never entered my mind that. That never ended my mind.

[Prosecutor]

Subject ever come up during any of those kinds of conversations at that time?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Came up later. Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

Obviously with Rand and Ta right after I was arrested? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

But not before?

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Not once. Is that what you're saying?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm saying I can't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Now, when you got to where you go, right from the airport to Rockingham on the 13th?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Make any phone calls?

[O.J. Simpson]

This is about the fourth time.

[Prosecutor]

Well, I'm just trying to get back to. Well. Well, I better not continue it because we're running out of tape and you're getting hungry. So we'll take our break here. Which is more important?

[Defense Attorney]

The tape.

[O.J. Simpson]

The time is approximately 12:17.

[Prosecutor]

And we are off. You see this photograph that we've marked at Exhibit 71?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You recognize that as the bathroom at the O' Hare Plaza where you stayed on June 13th when you went there from LA, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Now, I just want you to tell us where on the vanity of this sink the glass was situated when you apparently hit it with the back of

[O.J. Simpson]

your hand in a broken glass.

[Prosecutor]

The glass that you.

[O.J. Simpson]

You said you broke when it was broken?

[Prosecutor]

No, before it was broken. Where was it situated?

[O.J. Simpson]

Okay. I thought. I don't know. I testified that I hit it with the back of my hand before it was broke.

[Prosecutor]

How did you break?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Well, what I'm trying to get to is where the glass was right before you came into contact with it that caused the glass to break.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. But I can tell you when it was broken. It was right here beneath the towel. Right in the area was broken.

[Prosecutor]

Well, okay. Reporter's exhibit. Mr. No, no, no. Take this one, Mr. Simpson. And why don't you mark where I guess the lat.

[Defense Attorney]

The broken circle, the area.

[Prosecutor]

Now in that red circle was the broken glass?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And can you tell us where the glass was when you came into contact and broke?

[O.J. Simpson]

Must have been in this area because that's when it broke. This is where the glass kind of went.

[Prosecutor]

The circled area.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. Basically, yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And just a few minutes ago, you said you didn't backhand it. Do you.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know how it broke. I really don't. I don't. I have no memory of how it broke. I just know I was in a frenzy and it broke.

[Prosecutor]

You do know that you broke it, though, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And Were you on the phone when you broke it?

[O.J. Simpson]

Somebody may have been holding on the phone. I was going back and forth to the phone. It was during a period of time when I was trying to get a flight. And in that period of time I was not put on hold, but people were looking for flight information and stuff. And I was. I was just going back and forth from my. From my. From the phone to the. So I don't know when in that whole mix it happened, but it happened during that period.

[Prosecutor]

Nor do you remember how it happened, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You do know, for example, that you didn't like, throw it at the mirror, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Or throw it anywhere, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Can I have Peter, the picture? No, the phone records? I didn't.

[O.J. Simpson]

The last question you said after.

[Prosecutor]

You do know, for example, that you didn't throw it at the mirror.

[O.J. Simpson]

Right Answer. Yes, question.

[Prosecutor]

Or throw it anywhere. Thank you. Okay, let me have the binder with the phone records. Baker, would you just describe the record where Mr. Simpson was circled?

[Defense Attorney]

It looks to Mike to the right of the sink bowl, and it looks

[Prosecutor]

to the left of what appears to

[Defense Attorney]

be kind of a wicker basket where there is held some, I assume, the complimentary toiletries that are obligatory now in every hotel.

[Prosecutor]

I don't have copies of this right now. You know what? Steve did make copies because I marked it last night. So they're here someplace. And these are the. Howard Johnson.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Can you give me some copies then? Yeah. Here, let's mark this as Exhibit 72. This is my copy. Here's yours. Can you see without the glasses?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

I've marked as Exhibit 72, copy of a phone bill for the day of June 13, 1994 at the O' Hare Plaza. Howard Johnson, O' Hare Plaza Hotel. That's where you stayed, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

By looking at these ph. Phone records, can you tell. Tell me who you called that that morning in the hotel room?

[O.J. Simpson]

The first number at the top is Kathy Randis.

[Prosecutor]

Kathy was the first person you called, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And did you call Kathy before or after you heard from the officer?

[O.J. Simpson]

After. Okay.

[Prosecutor]

What? The very first phone call that you had that morning was with the officer?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you're sure of that now?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay.

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I've always been sure of that.

[Prosecutor]

Has that ever been questioned before?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And why are you sure?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because that was a call that woke me up.

[Prosecutor]

You were in the sound sound asleep?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What did you set your alarm for?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have a wake up call?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

How are you planning to get up after red eye for 10:30 golf.

[O.J. Simpson]

I never have any problem waking up.

[Prosecutor]

So you don't recall if you set the alarm or anything like that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Actually, I was wrong. I did have a call before this call before? The police officer who operated at the

[Prosecutor]

hotel, What'd she call about?

[O.J. Simpson]

See if my room was all right, would you?

[Prosecutor]

You first got up there?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Before you went to sleep?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

When you got to the room, you unpacked, you went into bed. Did you fall asleep pretty soon?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Okay.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have any band aid or anything on your finger?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you bleed at all in the bed? No. Drop any blood droplets on the sheets?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You're aware there are blood, blood droplets found on those sheets, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you're aware they're in the middle of the sheets and the bottom sheet and the top sheet, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You're not aware of that?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You're not aware of the fact they were found generally in the middle where your hand might lie at night?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Where are they?

[O.J. Simpson]

Where my hands?

[Prosecutor]

No. Where was the blood found on the sheets?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. Someone just said there was some blood in the bed.

[Prosecutor]

No one ever told you where the location of that blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You know how the blood got there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assume in the morning when I was going back and forth when I sat on the bed, you know.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know for a fact that's how it got there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

When you say assume so, I don't know how you use the word assume. What I want to know is if you remember actually dropping the blood on the sheets in the bed in Chicago.

[Defense Attorney]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And when you left that hotel that morning, did you know there was blood on the sheets in that bed?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

The first time you learned about that was in the court case?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Tell me about the first call you got from after you woke up.

[O.J. Simpson]

The police call.

[Prosecutor]

Excuse me? The first call that occurred that morning was one that you received?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And who was it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I guess it was the operation from the hotel or the girl at the desk.

[Prosecutor]

That was right when you got in the room, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

But after you went to sleep, you got another call, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who was that?

[O.J. Simpson]

A police officer.

[Prosecutor]

And tell me about that call.

[Defense Attorney]

What do you mean? Tell him about it.

[Prosecutor]

Tell me what you can recall from that call.

[O.J. Simpson]

They asked who I was. He. I don't know if he prefaced it. He said my kids were all right. First, let me tell you. Your kids are all right. And I think he said he had bad news from me or words to that effect. And he said your wife was murdered. May have said killed last night or your wife was killed. He may not have said last night, but your wife was murdered or your wife was killed. Have been killed. And I got up, sat up, and I tried to make sense of it. And I asked him what, you know, essentially, what did he mean? I didn't get it. It just was hard to digest. And he started telling me that there was nothing he could tell me. We're trying to find out. And he gave me a whole line of, they didn't know anything. We're trying to find out. O.J. and he kept assuring me that my kids were okay, my kids were fine. I believe he said they were at the police station. And I may. I might have asked him why.

[Prosecutor]

Why they were at the police station.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

What did he say?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't remember what his answer to that was. And then he asked me about could I come back to la. I believe. And essentially it was that.

[Prosecutor]

What was the name of the person who called you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I. I don't. In court they said it was Phillips, but at the time I wouldn't have known which one it was.

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[Prosecutor]

Can you remember anything else said by either you or him in that conversation?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if he asked me then or was it the next call that I would have? I left la, maybe. Or was I coming back? Or when I was coming Back? I don't remember then. I was kind of. I was not quite with it then.

[Prosecutor]

Can you remember anything else that either you said or he said?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not right now, no.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know of any document or anything else that would refresh your recollection about that conversation?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

How did you leave it with the officer? Didn't they coming back, or what?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think he said, and I. I think I asked if the Browns knew, and he said that they hadn't been told or the conversation sort of like that, but they hadn't told anybody yet. And I, you know, he may have given me a phone number. I think he gave me a phone number, too,

[Prosecutor]

and

[O.J. Simpson]

that's all I can recall.

[Prosecutor]

Is that it?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah, that's why I can recall right now.

[Prosecutor]

What did you do after that call?

[O.J. Simpson]

I started getting dressed. I may have called Kathy immediately to get me a flight out, first flight she can get out of Chicago. And I just. I started getting dressed and. And I started calling airlines myself, too.

[Prosecutor]

You asked Kathy to find you a flight back?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell her what had just been told?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, not that time. I may have told her the next call. I may have told her.

[Prosecutor]

Did she know anything about it when you had called her the first time?

[O.J. Simpson]

She didn't know. Know there was a murder? No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you know anything had happened to.

[O.J. Simpson]

I think she thought something had happened. I think. I. I don't recall, but I. I'm pretty sure she knew something that happened, but I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

You're saying that when you called Kathy, Randa, you didn't tell her what the officer had just told you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I didn't. He told me not to say. And he said the press doesn't know. We haven't told anybody that. And told the Browns and. And I didn't want to tell her immediately. No.

[Prosecutor]

What did Randa say to you to lead you to believe that she knew?

[O.J. Simpson]

She asked what was going on, and I think they had just called her. Someone had just called her. So she was, you know, at that time in the morning, I guess she was concerned for me to call her that early.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah. Who had just called her?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know at the time. Now I know it was the police, Arnell and the police. Please.

[Prosecutor]

You know now that the police had gotten in touch with Randa before you and Randis spoke, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I do, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And was. Did the police or Arnel first get in touch with Randa?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You don't know which one?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

But when you spoke to Rand in this first conversation that she acknowledged that she heard about Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

What did she say to you about what she had earlier heard about?

[O.J. Simpson]

And I was in. I was in a rush. I just said, get me a number, Kathy, I can't talk to you. Get me the first flight out of here. And she was trying to ask me what was wrong. What was wrong? I told her I couldn't tell her. I was. I don't know. I may have been crying.

[Prosecutor]

But you knew what was wrong, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

And what did you. You got off the phone and then what did you do?

[O.J. Simpson]

I started trying to get dressed and. And I started going back and forth to the phone. I started myself trying to see if I can get some numbers of airlines, I believe. And did you at some point? I did, yes.

[Prosecutor]

You had already told Randa to get the first flight out for you, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes, I said, see if you can get a flight out for me right away.

[Prosecutor]

But even though you told her that you decided to do it yourself?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. At the same time, I just to want. Wanted to get out of Chicago, and I'm glad I did because the flight she eventually got me was a lot was later than the one I ended up getting myself.

[Prosecutor]

Now, you had the numbers of the airlines?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

How'd you get them?

[O.J. Simpson]

Either from the operator or, I'm sure from the operator at the hotel or I call information.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, and is that the next call you made?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know what these other numbers are.

[Prosecutor]

What are. What airlines did you go back on?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think American.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, so you called a couple of airlines to get flights out, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I talked to a lot of people. It may have been some Hertz people I talked to. It may have been some airline people I talked to. I don't even know if there were travel agents. I was just. I was just on the phone back and forth on the phone to. I would get one person and say it was an emergency, and then they would maybe one of the airlines check the other airlines. I don't. I don't call.

[Prosecutor]

When you, when you made the calls to the airlines, did you succeed in getting an early flight?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, and then did you call Kathy back?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think I had got the flight by the time I talked to Kathy again.

[Prosecutor]

Okay, so you said. And what did you discuss in that call?

[O.J. Simpson]

Probably flights.

[Prosecutor]

Did you discuss what had happened in that call?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have told her then, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And did she ask you any question? Questions?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did she ask you about your activities the night before?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Can you Recall anything else you discussed with Rand in that conversation?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And then what did you do next?

[O.J. Simpson]

I continued to try to get dressed and I believe I continued to go back and forth to the telephone.

[Prosecutor]

Who. Who else did you call?

[O.J. Simpson]

Just trying to get flights, basically trying to find the Hertz guy to come and get me.

[Prosecutor]

And you called him, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Is that the next number?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I don't recognize any of those numbers.

[Prosecutor]

700. 708 number?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. But you did get in touch with him and told him to come, and that's when you said you were rude, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah, that. I think I talked to him more than once, so I know I was rude. One of us.

[Prosecutor]

Why did you. Why'd you tell. Talked to him two times that morning?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because he wasn't there and I was trying to get him to get there and trying to figure out how far he was away. Those kind of things.

[Prosecutor]

The first time you called the Merrill of Hertz, he was not at his house?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, he was there.

[Prosecutor]

And then why did you call Merrill of Hertz again?

[O.J. Simpson]

To find out where he was. Was he close?

[Prosecutor]

You mean you called him at his house?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

When you called him the second time, did you reach. Reach him?

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't recall. I think I may have.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And who else did you call?

[O.J. Simpson]

I called Nicole's house, I believe.

[Prosecutor]

Which number is that on here?

[O.J. Simpson]

826-0403.

[Prosecutor]

And who. Who answered?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe I spoke to a police officer.

[Prosecutor]

Who was that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Tell me what was said in that call.

[O.J. Simpson]

That may have been when they. When I was first asked what time I had left the night before and was I coming back to LA soon.

[Prosecutor]

What did you tell him in answer to the question?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm taking the first flight I can get back and what time I left the night before.

[Prosecutor]

Did they ask you any other questions?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not that I recall right now.

[Prosecutor]

You reckon remember the name of the officer?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask what had happened to Nicole?

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[O.J. Simpson]

Everyone that I spoke to, I asked that. And they all kept saying they didn't know they were investigating and there was nothing they can tell me.

[Prosecutor]

Can you remember anything else about that call?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever write any of any notes down of any of these calls?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have wrote the number down, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Where?

[O.J. Simpson]

Whatever piece of paper I had there in front of me.

[Prosecutor]

The police department number.

[O.J. Simpson]

The number that they had given me. I thought they had given me a cell number or something the first time you talked. Yeah, I believe he gave me a cell number or something.

[Prosecutor]

Have you ever made any notes or memos of these conversations that you had?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And you don't know of any such notes or memos, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Now, did you also call the police department in west la?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

One of these numbers is to the West LA Police Department.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, that would have been a number that they had given me.

[Prosecutor]

And what was the purpose of that call?

[O.J. Simpson]

To find out more about what was going on.

[Prosecutor]

And did. Did you find anything out?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And okay, that's that. Now there's a third call here to. To Merrill of Hertz. His number I'll represent to you is 708-377-4150. You see, there are three entries. 3708 number numbers like that. Why'd you call him the third time?

[O.J. Simpson]

To find out where he was.

[Prosecutor]

And when you got him the sec. When you called the second time, was he still at his house?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't remember was.

[Prosecutor]

And when he called him the third time, was he still at his house?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if I got through to him, but I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Why were you so anxious to get Meryl of Hertz when you could have gotten any ride downstairs?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, I hadn't been downstairs yet, and as it turned out, there was no any ride downstairs waiting for me.

[Prosecutor]

When you called the airlines to arrange transportation, did you call downstairs to the Front desk to arrange a cab?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

What's your best recollection, Mr. Simson?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Did you make any other phone calls?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, here's another one to my home.

[Prosecutor]

One to your house.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, this says here.

[Prosecutor]

Which one is that?

[O.J. Simpson]

4, 7, 6.

[Prosecutor]

And who did you speak to there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe a police officer, and I may have spoke to Arnell at that time.

[Prosecutor]

Who was the police officer you spoke to at your Rockingham house?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

What did he say to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Nothing.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't remember.

[Prosecutor]

And Arnel?

[O.J. Simpson]

She was just upset, basically. I was trying to calm her down at that point.

[Prosecutor]

What did Arnell say, if anything, about what had happened to her that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think she did nothing. I don't believe so. I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Did she have a boyfriend at that time?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so. She may have, but I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Did she ask you if you knew anything about Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you make any calls from your cell phone from the hotel?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. Maybe. Maybe from the lobby or downstairs while

[Prosecutor]

I was waiting when you went downstairs?

[O.J. Simpson]

Possibly, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Now, you said something before that when you cut your finger or hand or whatever on the glass in the bathroom, that you were on hold.

[Defense Attorney]

We're not going back to the cutting. Figure you spent well over an hour.

[Prosecutor]

I'm not going to ask him about the cuts. I just want to ask him if he's about on hold. Were you on hold at that time?

[O.J. Simpson]

At some point in time, an operator, it may have happened more than once, said, well, you got a minute? Let me check through it. And I said, sure, I'll be right back to the phone if I'm not here. And I was trying to pack and everything. So. Yes. I mean, when I said I was on hold, she was taking some time to do whatever she was doing, and I was trying to pack.

[Prosecutor]

At the same time, immediately after you cut your hand, did you tell anyone on the phone that. That you had done so?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall. I may have.

[Prosecutor]

Who did you tell?

[O.J. Simpson]

As I just told you, I don't recall. I may have.

[Prosecutor]

Do you think you may have told an operator?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

That you cut your hand?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell Kathy Randa?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell Arnell?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Now, when you got downstairs, you said you made some cell phone calls. Is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I said I may have. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you call Kathy Randa back?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

What did you tell her?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall if I called her or not.

[Prosecutor]

Did you call Lewis Brown?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

Did you reach him?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You called us home?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And there was no answer?

[O.J. Simpson]

There was an answer.

[Prosecutor]

Who answered?

[O.J. Simpson]

Denise.

[Prosecutor]

What did she say?

[O.J. Simpson]

She started screaming.

[Prosecutor]

Screaming at you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What was she saying?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. She was just yelling.

[Prosecutor]

Was she saying you killed her?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't hear that.

[Prosecutor]

Was she saying words to the effect that you were responsible for Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

She might have.

[Prosecutor]

What did you say to her?

[O.J. Simpson]

She hung up.

[Prosecutor]

Did you get a chance to say anything?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Now, was this phone call to Denise?

[Defense Attorney]

Well, the phone call where Denise was. It wasn't to Denise.

[Prosecutor]

Withdrawn. Was this phone call to the Brown residence in which Denise answered the phone? The first time that anyone had intimated to you that you were responsible for Nicole's death?

[O.J. Simpson]

Obviously, yes, if that's what she did. I mean, she was just screaming and I just. And then phone with that.

[Prosecutor]

Did you call her right back?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Who'd you call after Denise?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Peter, you have the next one. Cell phone records. What was the sense of what she was screaming about, Mr. Simpson?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. She was. Just. Seemed totally out of it. Seemed hysterical.

[Prosecutor]

You couldn't tell what. What she was saying?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you try calling her back?

[O.J. Simpson]

Back? No.

[Prosecutor]

Why not?

[O.J. Simpson]

I was dealing with my own feelings.

[Prosecutor]

What was your purpose in calling Lewis Brown?

[O.J. Simpson]

To talk to him.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask any. Did you call back to talk to him?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Defense Attorney]

Okay.

[Prosecutor]

Had you spoken to your children by this time?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And did you know where they were?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe they were. I don't. I'm not sure at what time we're talking. At one point, I think I was aware that they were on their way to Laguna.

[Prosecutor]

You know where those cell phone records are? Speed this up. Okay, here I have. I'll have to mark this. I think it's already an exhibit, but I can't find it right now. But these are the. Let me see.

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm getting here.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah, Here we go. 6:13. From your cell phone, you called 766-10-079. Do you see that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And whose number is that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Kathy Randall.

[Prosecutor]

And he called Kathy after Denise, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

And tell me what. What you discussed with Kathy.

[O.J. Simpson]

I think the flight that I was trying to make or the flight that

[Prosecutor]

I had made, he told her that you had caught your flight, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. It was either the flight I was

[Prosecutor]

trying to make that you were. You arranged your flight, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, it was. I told her I had a range of. I'm sure in one of these calls. I told her I had a flight. I just didn't know if I would make the flight and. Because it was. It was pretty tight.

[Prosecutor]

And did you remember anything else you and she spoke about?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And then you called at 3104-5924-1431-0459-2414. Who's that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Skip tap.

[Prosecutor]

And spoke to him?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. I believe so. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Is that the first time you spoke to Taft that day?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

What was that conversation about?

[Defense Attorney]

Don't answer that.

[Prosecutor]

Was that for the purpose of discussing legal matters?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Well, then tell me what you discussed.

[O.J. Simpson]

I told him what happened, what I had known that happened.

[Prosecutor]

And what did you say to Mr. Taft?

[O.J. Simpson]

That Nicole had been killed.

[Prosecutor]

Did he know already?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall. I don't think so. I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

And what did he say?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. Did you tell that he was upset? I'm sure.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell him that you were being blamed?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Tell him that Denise had accused you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

No discussion about your involvement?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did he ask you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Who did you call next?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

820-6759. Who's that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Skip's office. So maybe I didn't call. Get him at home.

[Prosecutor]

That. That's his other number?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And then we have 459-2414. That's Taft again, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And then you have 4, 7, 6, 1706. And who's that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Now, all these cell phone calls are made on the way to the airport.

[O.J. Simpson]

Possibly. I don't know. I could have been in front of the hotel. Also

[Prosecutor]

waiting for. For the ride, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Waiting for a cab or. Merrell.

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[Prosecutor]

No. I will represent to you that 4761706 is the phone number of Cato Kalin.

[O.J. Simpson]

Okay.

[Prosecutor]

Why did you call Cato Kaelin?

[O.J. Simpson]

To find out what was going on.

[Prosecutor]

What was going on about what?

[O.J. Simpson]

What was going on about the murder of Nicole.

[Prosecutor]

Why would you call Kato Kalin about Nicole's murder?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because he was living at my house and there was a lot of police at my house. And what, trying to talk to anybody who might know anything that was going on.

[Prosecutor]

How did you know there were police at your house?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I spoken to the police earlier.

[Prosecutor]

And why did they. Why? Did they tell you why they were at your house?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you. Did you question what are you doing at my house?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. I was hoping they were taking care of my family.

[Prosecutor]

Is that what they told you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When? When you spoke to the police. In all of the conversations before the Kalin conversation, did you ask them what they were doing at your house?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did they tell you that they were searching for evidence or anything like that?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you thought they were there taking care of your children?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assumed so.

[Prosecutor]

Is that what you thought?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

But you called Kato Kalin to find out if that was true.

[O.J. Simpson]

Just call Cato to find out what was going on.

[Prosecutor]

Now it's. You believed that there was activity going on at your house in which the police were searching for evidence, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't know what they were doing. No one said that to me at that time.

[Prosecutor]

But you wanted to find out, Kaylin, what the police were doing at your house, Correct. What was going on? About what?

[O.J. Simpson]

Just everything.

[Prosecutor]

This is a person you barely knew.

[O.J. Simpson]

That's not necessarily true.

[Prosecutor]

Why would you call Kato Kalin within an hour of finding out that your wife has been murdered?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because he was at my home. He had talked about some noises the night before. He was at my home.

[Prosecutor]

So when he talked about those noises, you were concerned that he might know something about the murder?

[O.J. Simpson]

About what he might have found and what? I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

So you. You made an. You made an association between the murder and those and the sounds that Kalin heard? I may have, yes. And tell us what associate tell us what he said to you about that association.

[O.J. Simpson]

Nothing. I never talked to him. I don't think he was there.

[Prosecutor]

But did you ask him, Cato, those sounds you heard, did you find anything?

[Defense Attorney]

He wasn't there.

[O.J. Simpson]

I think he wasn't there. I never talked to him.

[Prosecutor]

You never got a chance to Talk to him?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

How did you know he wasn't there? He just said it.

[Defense Attorney]

You gotta listen. David's got it on his screen.

[Prosecutor]

He did say. Did you talk to him that day?

[O.J. Simpson]

That day, yeah. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you talk to him before you arrived in Los Angeles?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

But you tried a couple of times, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I don't know if that was the only time I tried or not.

[Prosecutor]

You tried at least three or four times to call Cato Kalin by the time you landed in. In Los Angeles, didn't you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I don't know if that's true. I might have.

[Prosecutor]

If the phone records indicate it's true, then it's true, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

The cell phone records and the earphone records, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And your purpose in calling Kalin was to find out what he knew, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. Just to find out what was going on.

[Prosecutor]

And to talk about your story and his story, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And to talk about what he had seen the night before, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And to talk about what you and he had done the night before, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You deny all those things?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Deny that that was your purpose or intention?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

He had no such thought in mind?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's correct.

[Prosecutor]

You just wanted to call and see how he was doing, is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not necessarily enough.

[Prosecutor]

Not necessarily, no. What did you want to call him for?

[O.J. Simpson]

As I said, to find out what was going on.

[Prosecutor]

That was the first time you wanted to call him. Why'd you want to call him two, three, four times?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I never got him.

[Prosecutor]

But you could ask other people what's going on?

[O.J. Simpson]

I did.

[Prosecutor]

Why did you. Why were you so insistent on finding out from Cato Kalin what was going on?

[Defense Attorney]

Well, don't answer that. That's argumentative.

[Prosecutor]

It's not argument.

[Defense Attorney]

Of course, because he was so insistent. That's. That's your characterization?

[Prosecutor]

Well, it. You. You ask him. Okay. You had a desire to get in touch with Cato Kalin, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

And you wanted to find out what was going on, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Cato Kalin. Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

From anybody that can tell me.

[Prosecutor]

Well, from Cato Kalin, too, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who else did you call besides Kato

[Defense Attorney]

Kalin at my home, other than what he we've been testifying to for half an hour, 45 minutes?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And Kato Kalin is not. Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

But Kato Kalin was at my home. And since the police wouldn't tell me anything, and Arnell tried to tell me whatever she knew, which was nothing. Maybe Cato knew something that was going on.

[Prosecutor]

Did you try reaching Kaylin at various numbers that morning?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. Didn't know any other number to try.

[Prosecutor]

Well, did you talk to Taft or Randa about where Kalin could be found? No. Excuse me?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask Kathy or Randa, Arnell or Taft or anyone else to get in touch with Kaylin?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Or to help you get in touch with Kaylin?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Or where Kalin could be found?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Or what Kaylin knew?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

What made you associate the noises that Kaylyn heard with Nicole's murder?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't really associate anything. I just. When I left my house, Cato was concerned about some noises, and the next thing I heard about my life in LA is that Nicole was murdered. So the police wouldn't tell me anything. Arnel didn't know anything. Cato was at my home. Maybe he knew something.

[Prosecutor]

So you thought the murderer might have gone to your home?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not necessarily, no.

[Prosecutor]

But that was a possibility?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't know.

[Prosecutor]

But that was a thought that entered your mind?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not really, no.

[Prosecutor]

Well, then what was the. Why did you make that association?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't really say.

[Defense Attorney]

He said he didn't associate. Matter of fact, he said he did not associate those noises. Read it back.

[Prosecutor]

Excuse me, Mr. Baker.

[Defense Attorney]

I want it read back.

[Prosecutor]

Earlier in. In the testimony, he said he made that association, and I'm asking him why he did. So you want.

[Defense Attorney]

I don't agree with that. That's what he said.

[Prosecutor]

Do you want to now say that you didn't make that? Does it say. Yeah. Okay. Nicole was killed at Bundy, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And the noises are heard at Rockingham, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

But because you heard. Because Kaylyn told you about noises at Rockingham, you wanted to find out from Kaylyn what he knew about the murder of Nicole at Bundy. Is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You deny that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What caused you to even think that there was any connection, association or relationship between the thumps you heard at Rockingham from. Excuse me. We never heard anything. Withdrawn. What made you think that there was any association, connection or relationship between the noises that Kalin told you he had heard at Rockingham with your wife's murder at Bundy?

[O.J. Simpson]

Nothing.

[Prosecutor]

You said a few moments ago that you did make such a connection in your mind.

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I didn't say that. I said that the last thing that I talked to about my home when I left was Cato. He was connected, concerned. And the next thing I heard was Nicole was murdered. I talked to Arnell. She didn't know anything. The police wouldn't tell me anything. Cato was there. He was an adult. Arnell was somewhat Hysterical. So I just want to ask Cato what was going on and what.

[Prosecutor]

What was the connection in your mind between what concern Cato had expressed to you when you left the property at Rockington, him and your wife's murder?

[O.J. Simpson]

None.

[Prosecutor]

What's 16513? Can you go to that? I'll read that. Page 165, line 13. You mean from the previous day? No, no, today. Oh, today. Just. Just a few minutes. We're not doing too well today, Mr. Pink. You're only 165 pages. Those long breaks. You guys have page and line numbers of penis. You get it? But I don't. Let me read. Read it on the real time. Okay.

[Defense Attorney]

That's real time.

[Prosecutor]

Question. So you have made an association. Oh, excuse me. Start where? Okay. Question. This was a few minutes ago, Mr. Sims. Why would you call Kato Kalin within an hour of finding out that your wife has been murdered? Answer. Because he was at my home. He had talked about Summer thing the night before. He was at my home. Whether he talked about those noises. You were con. Questioned whether he talked about those noises, you were concerned that he might have thought. I can't read this real time. It's in. It's in abbreviations. Mr. Baker.

[Defense Attorney]

I'm not. I didn't say a word, sir. Don't look accusatory at me.

[Prosecutor]

This. Can you read it? Mr. Blazer on the Kangote.

[O.J. Simpson]

Thank you. I'll make something.

[Prosecutor]

I'd like to question you back. Can we stop for a second? Let's go back to it, David. Okay. Because you're. You can find it for me. Stop typing, stop typing. Stop talking. Go. Go back.

[O.J. Simpson]

Let me see what the context was again. How many times do you look at that? People are asking, David. Right.

[Prosecutor]

No, this just popped.

[O.J. Simpson]

If I bring mine. Okay.

[Prosecutor]

Keep going. Keep

[Defense Attorney]

this.

[Prosecutor]

No, back four.

[O.J. Simpson]

Move back.

[Prosecutor]

Back four. Stop. Back. No, no, no. It's back more. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. I saw it the other way.

[O.J. Simpson]

Right.

[Prosecutor]

Right there. Right there. Stop

[O.J. Simpson]

this thing.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah. Can you read your writing? Question. Why would you call Kato. Stop right there and start up there. Okay.

[O.J. Simpson]

Question.

[Prosecutor]

Why would you call Kato Kalin within an hour of finding out that your wife has been murdered? Answer. Because he was at my home. He had talked about some of. Some of. Some of those noises the night before. He was at my home. Question. When he talked about those noises, you were concerned that he might know something about the murder? Answer. What he might have found? I don't know. Question. So you made an association between the

[O.J. Simpson]

murder and those and the sounds that Kaylyn heard.

[Defense Attorney]

Answer.

[Prosecutor]

I may have. You may Stop.

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[Prosecutor]

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[Prosecutor]

Sponsored by Chumba Casino So we're back on the record. I now have the reporter read to you that you made an association.

[O.J. Simpson]

No, no. He did.

[Defense Attorney]

He said he may have. You say he did.

[Prosecutor]

I now have had the reporter read back to you your prior testimony where you said that you may have made an association between the noises that Cato told you about in the Cole's murder. Did you hear that testimony?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What was that association that you may have made?

[O.J. Simpson]

Wasn't an association. Those noises he had said the night before. I knew he was at the house. Arnel was upset. The police wouldn't tell me anything. That's it.

[Prosecutor]

But you said you may have made such an association. What did you mean by that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I meant that that morning.

[Defense Attorney]

You've answered the question.

[O.J. Simpson]

Very much.

[Defense Attorney]

You've answered the question. Don't. Don't answer it again.

[Prosecutor]

You're not going to let him answer? You wanted to talk to Kayin to cover your tracks, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Defense Attorney]

You've been through this.

[Prosecutor]

You're going to deny it if I ask you again. Who did you call after Kaylin?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Who's Jonah Wilson?

[O.J. Simpson]

A friend of Arnell's.

[Prosecutor]

Why'd you call him?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I believe Arnel went to his house.

[Prosecutor]

How did you know that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I was told that.

[Prosecutor]

By whom?

[O.J. Simpson]

Arnel.

[Prosecutor]

When?

[O.J. Simpson]

Whenever I talked to her previous to that.

[Prosecutor]

Did you speak to Jonah Wilson that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

On the plane?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You don't remember?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

The only. When you called Jonah Wilson's number, the only person you spoke to was Arnel.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if I spoke to anyone. I just don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Phone record shows 10 minutes worth of calls to the number of Jonah Wilson.

[O.J. Simpson]

What do you mean worth the calls?

[Prosecutor]

10. 2 calls totaling 10 minutes from the airphone.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, I must have talked to Arnell then, not Jonah. If Jonah was taken care of, I may have talked to Jonah a little bit too.

[Prosecutor]

Did arnell go with Mr. Cowling with your children?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so, but as I told you before, I didn't know.

[Prosecutor]

You think you might have spoken to Mr. Wilson?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

Had you met him before?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How many occasions?

[O.J. Simpson]

I've known him since was a kid. They grew up together.

[Prosecutor]

Is he the son of Carl Wilson

[O.J. Simpson]

of the Beach Boys? Brian one of the Wilson guys? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah. And is he. Was he a boyfriend of Arnell's? No, just a friend.

[O.J. Simpson]

Her best friend for 15 years now, since they were kids.

[Prosecutor]

Did you remember talking to Mr. Jonah Wilson?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Not at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you make a lot of phone calls? Calls from the airplane?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know what a lot of

[Prosecutor]

years, but like 30.

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have tried.

[Prosecutor]

What was your purpose in making all these phone calls from the airplane?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, not my purpose wasn't to make all those calls. It was just tough getting through because the plane kept airplane phones kept cutting out.

[Prosecutor]

The record showed numerous calls to Kathy Rand and Leroy Taft.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Why were you calling Leroy Taft after Kathy ran to so many times?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, because.

[Defense Attorney]

Well, show them the phone records and see what so many times are rather than.

[Prosecutor]

Would you like to see them, Mr. Baker? Yeah. Okay.

[Defense Attorney]

A lot of calls and so many times.

[Prosecutor]

That's. I'm going to mark this as the next exhibit in order. Which is exhibit. I think it's 74, isn't it? 73.

[Defense Attorney]

73.

[O.J. Simpson]

72.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Year 73.

[Defense Attorney]

Thank you.

[Prosecutor]

You want to take a. You can take a moment to read.

[O.J. Simpson]

I know. You have to show me where to look. These are all. I can't read this.

[Prosecutor]

You understand that when you make air phone calls, they're bill to your credit card, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And. And you made all the phones on your credit card, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure I did, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And your credit card was 089-18-331 08205-7022 correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

But you don't have any reason to doubt that, do you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. Okay.

[Prosecutor]

Now, I have here a chart that indicates the order of these phone calls. And the first one is to Cato Kalin on the airplane. The last call you had made made on your cellular was to Cato Kalin. And the first call on the air phone was to Cato Kalin. So you were very interested in getting in touch with Mr. Taylor.

[Defense Attorney]

Don't answer that.

[O.J. Simpson]

No, not really.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah, not really.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, I didn't get through. If you don't get through, you try again.

[Prosecutor]

First call on the airplane to Mr. Taylor.

[Defense Attorney]

You can characterize it any way you want.

[Prosecutor]

What was the purpose of the numerous calls on here without having to go through each and every one of them to Rand and Taft to tell them

[O.J. Simpson]

my flight, but I couldn't get through. So I kept trying until I got through.

[Prosecutor]

And once you got through and told them your flight was. Was there any further need to talk to them?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know about need, but, you know, someone was just murdered as far as I knew. And I was. I was hurting. Maybe they were just trying to. I think we might have prayed a little bit. We. I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Who'd you pray with?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe Kathy, I think, skipped a little bit when I said pray. We got a little religious with one another. Skip is a religious, somewhat religious person, but, yes, I think it was just they were trying to do what a friend would do in these circumstances.

[Prosecutor]

What do you mean somewhat religious? Religious.

[O.J. Simpson]

You go to church.

[Prosecutor]

He's a Christian?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You're a Christian?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And Miranda is.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Now, when you say you got religious together, what was the reason for that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. Someone died in our life. That's what tends to happen when that happens.

[Prosecutor]

Was there any praying or religious expression of religious expression for you to stay strong?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. I'm sure that was it. I think that's what they were trying to do, soothe me. And in the sense I was trying to soothe Kathy. I know that because she was pretty upset and distraught. So we're. We're just trying to, you know, soothe each other, I guess, you know.

[Prosecutor]

Was there any discussion in any of these phone calls with Rand or Taft about your involvement?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Not once?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not once?

[Prosecutor]

Not a single question to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

About whether you knew anything?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Whether you knew who might have killed Nicole?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

About what your whereabouts were?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Whether you had an alibi?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

They didn't ask you any of these things?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Never came up one once?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And was there any discussion in any of these conversations with Taft and Randa about what the cops knew?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

What information that they were uncovering?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Now, after you had called Randa and. And Taft and Kato Kalin all these times, had you spoken to your children

[Defense Attorney]

about knock the majority of all these times off?

[Prosecutor]

Well, I don't want to go through them all, but, you know, there's numerous calls to that.

[Defense Attorney]

I mean, you know, the times indicated on Exhibit 73 is fine.

[Prosecutor]

Admitted he had not yet spoken to your children. Correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

I think they were en route to Laguna at that time.

[Prosecutor]

During the entire time you were on the airplane?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know about the entire time, but during the course of that time, I did speak to one of my daughters, Arnell.

[Prosecutor]

But not to Justin and Sydney?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Weren't you concerned that your children had just lost their mother?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Didn't. Didn't you want to speak to them above anything else?

[O.J. Simpson]

Once I got myself together, I certainly did, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Didn't you put their welfare above yours?

[O.J. Simpson]

They were in good hands. AC Is the best.

[Prosecutor]

But he's not their father, is he?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. And I could and have them in my arms because I was on an airplane and I did not want to talk to them on a crowded airplane. And I wanted to get myself together before I spoke to them? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

So you made it. You made a choice not to speak to them until you were in person?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And did you stick to that choice?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I may have spoke to him that night once I was at my home on the telephone. I may have, yes. I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

When did you first speak to Nicole's parents?

[O.J. Simpson]

Sometime that day. Maybe even on the airplane, but sometime that day.

[Prosecutor]

And who did. Did you ever speak to Denise again? No. Who did you speak to?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe Judy.

[Prosecutor]

And tell me about your conversation with Judy.

[O.J. Simpson]

It was just a matter of us, you know, trying to. You know, trying to comfort one another.

[Prosecutor]

Did Judy ask you any questions about your whereabouts?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did she. Was she accusatory at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did she ask you if you knew anything about how Nicole had died?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Or who would kill Nicole?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When did you first find out that Nicole had been murdered?

[O.J. Simpson]

The morning that the police call.

[Prosecutor]

They told you that it was a murder?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. I believe his words were murder. But he may have said the Bleacher

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[O.J. Simpson]

I thought he said murder.

[Prosecutor]

Thinking back, he may have said Nicole was killed. Is that what you're saying?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

And if he did use that word, kill rather than murdered, how would you. Why did you believe she was murdered?

[O.J. Simpson]

He said killed or murdered. And when I asked him what did he mean, his litany was, we don't know. We're trying to find out. I'm sure if it was anything other than murdered, he would have told me it was a car accident. If it was a car accident. But he was very insistent on telling me that they were investigating. They didn't know that they were trying to find out. OJ

[Prosecutor]

so as far as you know, she could have been run over by a car, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't. I didn't feel that, no.

[Prosecutor]

You didn't feel that way?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

But he didn't tell you how she had been killed, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, that's correct.

[Prosecutor]

There are several calls to the Simpson Enterprises cellular phone. What are. What were those calls for and who. To whom were they made?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sorry? You may know what it's. What do you mean? Simpson Enterprises sell your phone.

[Prosecutor]

You made several phone calls from the airplane to a number in the name of Simpson Enterprises to a cell phone in the name of a Simpson. Simpson Enterprises. That's Kathy's cell phone?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would think so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you called the number in the San Fernando Valley, 818-362-5643. Whose number is that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Five minute phone call. Oh, I withdraw that. That call was made by. From your cellular phone to a San Fernando phone, phone number 213-712-9836. Cellular phone. Would that have been Kathy's call?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know whose number that is?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you tell Kathy or Leroy to call anybody for you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. Yes. Whom I told Leroy at one point to call, Maybe Howard Weissman.

[Prosecutor]

And why did you ask him to do that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because the lawyer sitting next to me on the phone, suggested that I should.

[Prosecutor]

Lawyers sit next to you on the phone?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. While I was on the phone on the plane.

[Prosecutor]

Oh, while you were on the airport. What was that lawyer's name?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. He was in court, though.

[Prosecutor]

And how did that lawyer know that you might need a lawyer?

[O.J. Simpson]

He. The plane was sold out. The seats were tight. As I was talking on the floor phone. I guess he got the gist of what was going on, and. And I was crying some, and he was somewhat comforting, and we talked a little bit about. About it, and he made this suggestion to me.

[Prosecutor]

Well, Mr. Simpson, what did you say to him that could have led him to suggest to you that you needed a lawyer?

[Defense Attorney]

That that's calling for speculation on the part of this w.

[Prosecutor]

What did you say to him,

[Defense Attorney]

if he said anything?

[Prosecutor]

This man said you should call a lawyer, right? No.

[O.J. Simpson]

He said it may be a good idea that if you have a lawyer.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have a lawyer, A criminal lawyer?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

No. What. What discussion that you and this man had led to a suggestion about a criminal lawyer?

[O.J. Simpson]

We were just talking. He heard me talking to Skip Taft about what was going on and that I. Skip was asking me, I'm sure, can I talk about what Skip and I talked about?

[Defense Attorney]

If you weren't talking about the legal stuff, you can.

[O.J. Simpson]

No, just about him picking me up, and he wanted to know where I want to go. And I said, I need to go to my house because the police said that they'll be there, and for me, they need to talk to me right when I land. And evidently he heard it. You'd have to ask the guy at this point. Evidently you heard that.

[Prosecutor]

Whose idea was Howard Weitzman,

[O.J. Simpson]

Skipper? I. I guess one of us.

[Prosecutor]

Now, did you? And did you and this other man next to you, whose name I don't have in mind right now, discuss that you might be a target?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Or a suspect?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

But yet he recommended you might need a criminal lawyer.

[O.J. Simpson]

He didn't say criminal lawyer. Well, he may have said, if you're going to talk to the police, is your lawyer? I said, my lawyer is a business lawyer. He said, well, you might want to think about having another lawyer there. And that's when I called Skip and said what this guy had just said to me.

[Prosecutor]

Did you speak to Weitzman from the phone from the airplane?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't remember.

[Prosecutor]

When was the first time you made contact with Weitzman?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Was it when you were on the ground in Los Angeles?

[O.J. Simpson]

May have been when I was at my house.

[Prosecutor]

Can you remember anything else you and this passenger discussed?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Now, you also have a phone call to Marcus Allen?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you reach him?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you talk to his wife?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you talk to anybody?

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't recall if someone was staying at his house at that time or not.

[Prosecutor]

Now, the phone records show a minute and 20 seconds to that number. Does that jog your memory at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

What was your purpose in calling Marcus Allen?

[O.J. Simpson]

He was a friend.

[Prosecutor]

One of your closest friends?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you called Tawny Kitane. Who was she?

[O.J. Simpson]

A friend of Kathy's And a former friend of mine. And a friend of mine.

[Prosecutor]

Former girlfriend of yours?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And why did you call Tony?

[O.J. Simpson]

I was trying to get Kathy and I wasn't getting through. And I didn't know if Kathy had headed to her house or. I think Kathy may have. I'm not sure if Kathy had changed her cell phone or may have just changed her cell phone, but if Kathy called her, I wanted her to know I was looking for her.

[Prosecutor]

So that that was the sole purpose. Calling Tawny was to get in touch with Kathy?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Is there anything else you can tell us about all of these phone calls that Kathy and skip, other than make arrangements to pick you up?

[O.J. Simpson]

The problem was getting through. That was the problem. Most of the phone calls didn't get through.

[Prosecutor]

Well, 29 of them got through.

[O.J. Simpson]

I disagree with that.

[Prosecutor]

Maybe I misspoke. Anyway, how many do you think got through?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. Maybe I would skip two or three. And maybe Kathy one or two.

[Prosecutor]

Peter. Peter. Phone record notations on. On exhibit 73. Say, 48 call attempts, 27 billable calls, calls completed. Do you believe he had 27 phone conversations?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I didn't.

[Prosecutor]

Much fewer than those.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

I'm sorry. One call to leroy Taft is 11 minutes plus near the end of your flight. Is that about the lawyer?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. We may have just been commiserating or.

[Prosecutor]

At that time, what did you mean before when you said you wanted to get yourself together?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think I was emotionally somewhat shattered at that time, and I wanted to be strong for my kids.

[Prosecutor]

Is that the only thing you had in mind?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

That was. The purpose of all these phone calls, was to get yourself together.

[Defense Attorney]

Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. Don't answer.

[Prosecutor]

Excuse me?

[Defense Attorney]

Don't answer that object. That's. That's argumentative. Contrary to what you've just been doing for two hours or an hour and a half or whatever.

[Prosecutor]

Don't. Don't exaggerate.

[Defense Attorney]

Mr. B. I apologize. An hour and 24 minutes.

[Prosecutor]

When you got picked up at the airport, you've already told us Miranda and Taft were there and you went off?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you sign any autographs on the airplane?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

Coming back to Los Angeles?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

And did you sign any autographs going to the. From the hotel to the airport and onto the plane in Chicago?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

And from the point part where you departed the plane, got into the car in Los Angeles?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Now, when you got picked up by Taft and Randa, did you discuss the subject of a Weitzman or some other criminal lawyer?

[O.J. Simpson]

The subject, yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Whether such a person had been arranged?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

Were you told that Weitzman had been retained?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so. I don't know about retained, but he'll be at my house when I got there.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And did you go directly to the house?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And when you got to the house, you got out of the car?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you take your luggage?

[O.J. Simpson]

My grip.

[Prosecutor]

And what about the bag in the trunk? The Louis Vuitton with the suit bag in it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assumed that Skipper Kathy would grab it. I later found out that Kathy grabbed it and they wouldn't let her own the property.

[Prosecutor]

And what did Kathy do with it?

[O.J. Simpson]

She stood there. You're asking me second hand knowledge now?

[Prosecutor]

Yeah.

[O.J. Simpson]

She stood there and at some point Bob Kardashian came and held it for her and tried to get on the property and the police wouldn't let him.

[Prosecutor]

What did Kardashian do with your suitcase, I gather?

[O.J. Simpson]

Took it, put it in his car.

[Prosecutor]

And did he take it to his home?

[Announcer]

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[Defense Attorney]

I don't know the sense because he doesn't have any firsthand.

[Prosecutor]

And I'd like to know, based on any information you have, where that suitcase next went, when it. When Kardashian took it from Randa and put it in his car?

[O.J. Simpson]

He may have taken it to my office and he may have taken it home. I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

When's the next time you saw the suitcase? Louis Vuitton suitcase?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't. I'm not sure. Maybe later that day or maybe the next. Next day. I'm just not sure.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask anyone? Hey, where's my suitcase?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Later on that day, when you were back at your Rockingham home that evening, I guess, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask for your suitcase?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Ask to see it?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did the police ask for it?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You don't know if it was at Kardashian's house or at the. At your office, is that what you're saying?

[O.J. Simpson]

Or if he brought it back to my house that evening? I just don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Do you remember the next time you saw it?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you remember unpacking it?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah. Well, since that suitcase was taken out

[O.J. Simpson]

of

[Prosecutor]

Kardashian's car, that Louis Vuitton case, did you ever see it again after that in court? That was the next time you saw it?

[O.J. Simpson]

That I'm aware of You?

[Prosecutor]

Yes. And did you ever find out from any source what happened to your suitcase after Kardashian took it?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever ask?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Who is Louise Perry?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

That name means nothing to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Now, There are calls from your Rockingham residence later in the evening of the 13th to a number to the phone number of Ron Shipp, 805-251-2810. Did you make those calls?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Mr. Ship make those calls from your house to his house?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

Your calendar shows a luncheon with Mr. Ship on date of June 3, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

You don't believe it? It shows such a luncheon.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Exhibit 8A shows an entry for June 3rd lunch. Ron Ship. You see that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Defense Attorney]

In exhibit 8A is both Kathy and.

[O.J. Simpson]

No, this is Kathy's. This is not mine. One she gives me. Don't have all her things on it.

[Defense Attorney]

Well, let's look at 8B. Well, this aid B is the one he.

[Prosecutor]

Wait, wait a second. Before. Wait a second. Kathy wasn't going to Sydney's dance recital at 5:00pM Correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay.

[O.J. Simpson]

But on her calendar she puts all of her events on also, as you can see.

[Prosecutor]

Oh. So in any event.

[Defense Attorney]

Well, let's see, 8B. And let's. Let's find out if we have a Western with Ron Ship. If you're going to pursue this line

[Prosecutor]

of looking, I want to ask you a question. Did you have lunch with ron ship?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

June 3rd?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did Kathy?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever find out that Kathy did?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. It was about that time that. I know she was supposed to have a talk with him about showing up at my house.

[Prosecutor]

He said, you think that's what that may have been?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Making a note there about that?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

What is your note?

[O.J. Simpson]

My note says. I don't even know what it says. One says, who is Louise Perry? The other one says, God bless America. The other one says, Justice Farrell. One says, skip tab.

[Prosecutor]

He can answer.

[Defense Attorney]

You don't have to answer anything about your notes.

[Prosecutor]

Well, Louise Perry is a name you're going to follow up on, Mr. Simpson.

[Defense Attorney]

Don't care. You're not entitled to asking about notes

[O.J. Simpson]

he takes during deposition, during testimony.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah.

[Defense Attorney]

He's entitled to take notes.

[Prosecutor]

Well, yeah, but he still has some confidentiality. It might have some relevance to the proceedings. Okay.

[Defense Attorney]

It might. Give me the pen. Taking your pen away from taking away.

[Prosecutor]

Don't.

[Defense Attorney]

Don't you give him that pen. There.

[Prosecutor]

Now, Mr. Simpson, on the plane ride to Chicago, did you make any phone calls?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you sleep?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have dozed, yes.

[Prosecutor]

That was a red eye, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And it was dark, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You were sitting in first class?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Was there somebody right next to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And were you on the aisle or near the window?

[O.J. Simpson]

I probably sat in both seats.

[Prosecutor]

Did you. How. How long did you sleep?

[O.J. Simpson]

I thought you may have dozed. I'm not sure. Did you read some?

[Prosecutor]

Yes. And how long do you think you dozed?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Do you. Do you sleep on airplanes?

[O.J. Simpson]

Sometimes.

[Prosecutor]

You sleep on red eyes?

[O.J. Simpson]

Sometimes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you sleep more or less the same that you usually sleep on this particular flight?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You slept less.

[O.J. Simpson]

Was normally my red eyes that to New York? This was much shorter flight.

[Prosecutor]

So you slept less if I dozed?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You slept less because it was a shorter flight, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Were you agitated at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Upset. Upset about anything?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Were you getting up to go to the bathroom

[Defense Attorney]

More than once did you

[Prosecutor]

get up to go to the bathroom at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

More than once?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How many times?

[O.J. Simpson]

A few times.

[Prosecutor]

Three or four. Possibly five or six. I doubt that, but possibly as possibly ten?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

So under ten?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes, I'm sure under ten.

[Prosecutor]

Between. Somewhere between five and ten?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I'm not saying that. I said it may have been three or four, may have been five.

[Prosecutor]

How long was the flight?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you drink a lot of water?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

About how many glasses of water?

[O.J. Simpson]

A lot.

[Prosecutor]

Five or six

[O.J. Simpson]

at least.

[Prosecutor]

Maybe 10?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

Usually drink that much water?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have to with my medication and on airplanes?

[Prosecutor]

Yes. What medication were you taking that night?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, I was taking a whole lot of Motrin and stuff and when I fly, when I'm on my medication, I take a lot of water. You have to put a sulfazolidin. I don't think I was on it at that time, but I. When I fly and I. I give this as advice. Often you have to drink a lot of water if you're going to fight jet lag. And I knew I'd be. I was still fighting jet lag from the previous week, so I was doing a lot of water. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And did you talk to any of the passengers on that flight?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who?

[O.J. Simpson]

Howard Bingham and briefly to Craig Baumgarten's partner, whose name I can't think of right now.

[Prosecutor]

Business partner?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

He happened to be on the flight?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Were they both in first class?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

They're both in coach?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Where were they?

[O.J. Simpson]

Bingham was in coach. He was in first class.

[Prosecutor]

And they both came up to talk to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, he was in first class, so he didn't have to come up to talk to me.

[Prosecutor]

Well, what I meant was, was he seated right next to you where he could talk without getting out of a seat?

[O.J. Simpson]

It was a. It was a small first class and we spoke when we first got on the plane.

[Prosecutor]

Did you get out of your seat at all to go speak to anybody

[O.J. Simpson]

once the plane was in flight?

[Prosecutor]

Yes.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

What about before it was in flight?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who?

[O.J. Simpson]

Bingham and this other guy.

[Prosecutor]

And you went to each of their seats?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I just stood up in the aisle and talked.

[Prosecutor]

Just chit chat?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you talk to anyone? Any of the flight attendants,

[O.J. Simpson]

possibly.

[Prosecutor]

You remember their names?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you talk to the pilot?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. When at some point during the flight

[Prosecutor]

he came back to talk to you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And what did you and he talk about?

[O.J. Simpson]

I Don't recall. Football, maybe.

[Prosecutor]

How long?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you give any autographs on the air airplane?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

To whom?

[O.J. Simpson]

To the pilot, for sure. And maybe to one or two other people. I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

That came up to you in the cabin?

[O.J. Simpson]

Possibly, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Were you sweaty?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Have others said you were sweating?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Were you agitated?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Were you edgy or jumpy from the medication?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When had you started taking that. That medication that makes you drink a lot of water?

[O.J. Simpson]

Originally, as I told you, I don't think I was taking it that day. I think I said that on the record here. I don't think I was taking it during that period of time, but I've been taking it for two or three years previous to this.

[Prosecutor]

But you. So you were drinking a lot of water because of. You were flying?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. And I drink a lot of water anyway, but because I was flying, I drink even more.

[Prosecutor]

Is that one of the reasons you went to the bathrooms? Several times, I would imagine.

[Defense Attorney]

He's not a doctor, but I think

[Prosecutor]

that's fair assumption going on? Yeah.

[Defense Attorney]

Take a break now.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Mr. Simpson, in April, you went down to shoot a movie called Frogman?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you played a character called Bullfrog, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Navy SEAL character, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You received some training to perform your partner in that movie, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Incorrect.

[Prosecutor]

No training at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

None.

[Prosecutor]

Was there a person who worked with you to show you some of the moves?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know what you mean by the move.

[Prosecutor]

Some of the physical act actions that you would have to take as the character Bullfrog.

[O.J. Simpson]

On the set? There was a. There was a stunt coordinator. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And that stunt coordinator gave you some training on how to perform some of the actions that you had to take in the. In the role as Bullfrog?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct? No.

[Prosecutor]

What did that stunt coordinator have to do with you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Will you show us if a punch had to be shown from the camera, where to punch so that it would look like a hit in the camera, Stuff like that.

[Prosecutor]

There were scenes in that movie when you would wield a knife, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

There's one scene where you wielded a serrated dive knife, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

Did anybody show you in connection with that particular scene how to perform the

[O.J. Simpson]

physical actions, how they want it to be done? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And who did so?

[O.J. Simpson]

The director did.

[Prosecutor]

Anyone else?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you receive any advice or training, whether on the set, off the set, from anybody in connection with your movements and actions in. In the role of Bullfrog?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Have you heard anyone say in court that you did so?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Have you ever spoken to a former military person or current military person about some of these actions with knives, knife scenes or anything like that? How to hold a knife, wield a knife?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Never in your life?

[O.J. Simpson]

Never.

[Prosecutor]

Never had any kind of informal training on that at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

None.

[Prosecutor]

Like to mark as the next exhibit, In Order, Exhibit 75, excerpts from the script of Frogman that. That was the name of the project?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

These were obtained from again the LAPDs ID inspection that we had a while ago. Did the movie ever get released, by the way?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

You know why not?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you have a working copy of the film?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Have you ever seen it?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You ever see the dailies on this?

[O.J. Simpson]

Some days, yes.

[Prosecutor]

You ever see any rough cut of the movie?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Now, I'd like to refer you to pages 16 and 17 where it describes a scene where you enter the interior of a dive shop at night. Do you see that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you, you're Bullfrog, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

See near the bottom of the first page it says Bullfrog has entered the dive shop. Quote without a sound, Bullfrog has entered.

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[Prosecutor]

What's up Foos?

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[O.J. Simpson]

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[O.J. Simpson]

Last page or second to last page?

[Prosecutor]

Second to last page.

[O.J. Simpson]

Okay.

[Prosecutor]

Without a sound, Bullfrog has entered the dive shop. Doesn't turn on the lights. Doesn't have to. You See that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Next line. Bullfrog comes up with a lethal serrated dive knife.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And then Bullfrog cases the area. All clear.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Looking toward the back of the shop, through the maze of counters and gear, he sees a shadow.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Bullfrog's seal, capital letters S, E, A, L. Correct. Career Bullfrog steals past silent bullfrogs. Made a circle. He's behind the shadow. He lunges, and in one swift move has the intruder on the floor, one arm twisted back in a punishing hold. Do you see that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

That character was a woman that you apprehended, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct. That this is talking about. Yes, correct.

[Prosecutor]

In this. In this script, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And the knife that you were holding, was that a real knife?

[O.J. Simpson]

They may have given me a rubber knife when I grabbed her.

[Prosecutor]

But before they may have given you a rubber knife, you had a real knife?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

In what hand were you holding that knife during this particular scene that I described?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe the left hand.

[Prosecutor]

Left hand?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Are you positive about that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes, I believe. I'm not totally positive. But the camera was on this side,

[Prosecutor]

motioning to your left now, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

And it was dark during this scene, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, yeah, the camera shot it dark, but you have to light it to where it's not dark, otherwise you wouldn't see it.

[Prosecutor]

But it's supposed to depict a nighttime scene, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

The key word is supposed to depict.

[Prosecutor]

Yes. It's a night scene, right.

[O.J. Simpson]

We're indoors. But it's supposed to be a night scene. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Now, what were you wearing, Mr. Simpson, during this scene? In. In Frogman.

[O.J. Simpson]

Whatever wardrobe they gave me.

[Prosecutor]

What was it?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Dark outfit, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm not sure of that.

[Prosecutor]

Gloves on, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

No gloves, no. Did you have anything on your head?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so, no.

[Prosecutor]

And what. What kind of dark outfit did you have on?

[O.J. Simpson]

I told you, I don't believe it. I don't know if it was a dark outfit or not.

[Prosecutor]

Can't remember the color.

[O.J. Simpson]

I thought it was a light blue sweater, but I could be wrong there. But, you know, I was this guy just finished eating dinner somewhere, so I don't. I don't recall it being a dark outfit at all. No.

[Prosecutor]

Now, did. Who taught you how to hold the knife in the. In the manner that you did?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if anybody taught me. I think the director wanted me to. To hold it up.

[Prosecutor]

And who taught you how to make the move and by which you apprehended the shadowy figure?

[O.J. Simpson]

The director said, come up and grab her and pull her this way.

[Prosecutor]

And is that what you did?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. Not the way it's written here, but that's what I did.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever see the footage of this scene?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Who was the director?

[O.J. Simpson]

This is embarrassing. Michael, you know, I apologize. I can't think of his name.

[Prosecutor]

And do you know whether this script was based in generous part on a book?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Tom Clancy book?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever read the book without remorse?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

If in. In portraying the character of Bullfrog and in performing this particular scene.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, first, let's clear one thing up. Just because it read this way doesn't mean this is the way the scene was shot. And it wasn't shot the way it reads.

[Prosecutor]

How is it?

[Defense Attorney]

I didn't ask you about it. Okay.

[O.J. Simpson]

All right.

[Prosecutor]

How was it shot?

[O.J. Simpson]

In pieces.

[Defense Attorney]

This is OJ Being OJ

[Prosecutor]

it was shot in pieces. What does that mean?

[O.J. Simpson]

That means it wasn't shot like this. All his arms behind the back. And that stuff never happened.

[Prosecutor]

What happened?

[O.J. Simpson]

I just grabbed her and pulled her out of. Out of what they call a camera. Grabbed her from behind and pulled her out of the camera scene.

[Prosecutor]

What part never happened?

[O.J. Simpson]

All this pulled down on the ground. Ground and pulling hands behind the back.

[Prosecutor]

Well, did. Did someone else perform those movements?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, it just wasn't shot that way. The director had took his license and shot it his way.

[Prosecutor]

He changed the movements when he decided to shoot the scene?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

But you still came up. You still entered a dive shop at night, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you didn't turn on the lights, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I wasn't a. A dive shot, so there was no lights to turn on it?

[Prosecutor]

Well, it was depicted, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

And you still held a lethal serrated dive knife, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. How long was that knife?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

More than 6 inches blade?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

About 6 inches.

[O.J. Simpson]

Could have been, but I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

And what did you do with that knife?

[O.J. Simpson]

It was theirs. It was. Was the people that you know do the movie.

[Prosecutor]

Did you keep it as a souvenir?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Are you sure?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What about the clothing? Did you keep any of the clothing as a souvenir?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so. No.

[Prosecutor]

Are you sure?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Have you ever met a Navy SEAL?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Within a year before June 12, 1994.

[O.J. Simpson]

Say that again.

[Prosecutor]

Within one year before June 12, 1940. 1994. And did you ever have any contact with the Navy seal?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who?

[O.J. Simpson]

One guy was a guy that worked on a set, and one guy's wife worked at the hotel in Cabo that I was At.

[Prosecutor]

And the guy that worked on the set who was a Navy Seal, what was his job?

[O.J. Simpson]

I guess he was a. I believe he co wrote the script and he was there as a technical advisor.

[Prosecutor]

And what is the name of that person?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I don't recall. I'm sorry.

[Prosecutor]

When is the last time you spoke to that Navy seal?

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[O.J. Simpson]

Sometime, I believe during the movie. I don't think I talked to him since then. I may have, but I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever have any discussions with the Navy SEAL about the. The script?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure I did, yes.

[Prosecutor]

As the movie was being shot.

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure I did.

[Prosecutor]

Including the scene we just mentioned.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think we ever specifically talked about that scene. But.

[Prosecutor]

But he was there at the time, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And that. That script writer who was a Navy SEAL was there to take time. You shot these f. The scene that I just described, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so. I don't. I don't recall, but I believe he was.

[Prosecutor]

Thank you. The purpose of working. Excuse me.

[Defense Attorney]

He wants to stop at 4:32 John Does. I have no objection. We're going to do it again sometime.

[O.J. Simpson]

I got to make some decisions here. So if we can just go to

[Prosecutor]

four, that's more than acceptable. Mr. Kelly, it's Friday. I'm not going to be in a deposition tomorrow. Was the purpose of having a. Of working with the Navy SEAL so that his. The actions that you would be performing would look more authentic?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I didn't make that decision.

[Prosecutor]

Is that your understanding?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. You have to ask the people made the movie.

[Prosecutor]

But you were attempting to portray the scene in an authentic manner, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah, I was. I don't know what authentic is, but in. In relations to this, I was doing what the director told me to do.

[Prosecutor]

Well, an actor is supposed to try to convince the viewers that he's doing the real thing, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I was doing what the director told me, action wise.

[Prosecutor]

Are you trying to act to the best of your ability?

[Defense Attorney]

That's.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Well, it would have been simpler if you just answered it simply. Okay, let me depart frogman and go to another subject. That's all right with with you, Mr. Baker.

[Defense Attorney]

It is getting slap happy here. I'm telling you asked my permission.

[Prosecutor]

I'm going to mark as the next exhibit in order, exhibit 76. While we're waiting for the original pictures, let me ask you a question about the Chicago hotel. Did you take with you any plastic bags or laundry bags?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you use any of them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you see any of them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you have any explanation why bags were missing from that hotel room?

[O.J. Simpson]

Don't.

[Defense Attorney]

Don't answer that.

[Prosecutor]

You don't have to dry cleaning bags. Does that make a difference? Did you use any dry cleaning bags?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Exhibit 76 and 77 are pictures. And can you identify what is depicted in those photographs?

[O.J. Simpson]

A portion of my bedroom.

[Prosecutor]

And what about the other picture?

[O.J. Simpson]

Some socks, the rug.

[Prosecutor]

Are those your socks?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Do you have socks like that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have black socks, yes.

[Prosecutor]

That look like those socks?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I can't really see what these socks look like.

[Prosecutor]

Well, you saw a lot of these socks in court, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When you were in court, there was a lot of testimony about these socks, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Testimony? Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And video footage as well, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Are those your socks?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

On June 12, 1994, did you have socks like those?

[O.J. Simpson]

I had black socks, but I can't tell how these socks are because they're balled up.

[Prosecutor]

What kind of socks? Do you have a brand name?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you buy your own socks? Did you at the time, June of 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What brand socks did you buy?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have any. Any particular brands that you bought? No. Would you be aware of the brand names of the socks that you owned in June of 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you leave those socks on the floor when you left the room on June 12?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Are you sure?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How do you know?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I never leave my socks on the floor.

[Prosecutor]

Are you by habit?

[O.J. Simpson]

By habit, yes.

[Prosecutor]

If you're in a hurry, though, you might leave your socks on the floor, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not in my bedroom. No.

[Prosecutor]

You didn't hang everything up in your bathroom?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's a little different.

[Prosecutor]

And the towels?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's a little different.

[Prosecutor]

How's that different?

[O.J. Simpson]

It's a bathroom.

[Prosecutor]

Never have left anything on your bedroom floor when you left the room? Clothing?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

A belt?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Socks?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Never?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. That I know of.

[Prosecutor]

Did you wear black socks on June 12, 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Excuse me. You believe so? Correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You wore them to the recital, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you wear any other black socks that day?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

One pair?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Do those look like the pair?

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't see what these look like.

[Prosecutor]

Could they be the pair?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

Why not?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I didn't leave black socks here,

[Prosecutor]

apart from the fact that they're on the floor there. Do they generally look like the black socks that you wore?

[O.J. Simpson]

I can't tell because I can't see what these look like.

[Prosecutor]

Have you ever found the pair of black socks that you wore on June 12?

[Defense Attorney]

It assumes they're missing.

[Prosecutor]

Withdrawn. Where are the pair of black socks that you wore on June 20th?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assume in my home.

[Prosecutor]

Have you looked for them?

[O.J. Simpson]

I've worn black socks since I've been home, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know if they were the exact pair that you took off that evening?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When you came home on the 13th, did you see those black socks that you had taken off the night before?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't look for them, no.

[Prosecutor]

When you took the black socks off the night before or the day before or whenever you did, where did you put them?

[O.J. Simpson]

Either in my shoes or back in the sock drawer.

[Prosecutor]

In what shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

The shoes I was wearing.

[Prosecutor]

Because you might wear the socks again?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

When you came back to your house on the 13th, did you look in those shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Were the shoes there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I assume so.

[Prosecutor]

Were the socks in the shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

If that's where I left them, I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

But you don't know?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You took off your socks. When you took off your. The clothes you wore to the recital?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And that's when you put on the golf clothing?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

And you said you hung up the other clothing and there were the pants in the shirt, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

But you don't have a clear recollection whether you put the socks in the hamper or in the shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. In the shoes or in my drawer?

[Prosecutor]

The drawer.

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sorry.

[Prosecutor]

Why didn't you put them in the hamper?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I didn't feel they were dirty.

[Prosecutor]

How long had you worn those socks?

[O.J. Simpson]

Whatever time it took me to get to the recital and back.

[Prosecutor]

Do you sweat?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Do you sweat in your feet?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure sometimes.

[Prosecutor]

You had worn the socks for two to three hours, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

You. You were going to wear them again without washing them?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Who does your laundry?

[O.J. Simpson]

My housekeeping.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have a hamper?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Where was it located?

[O.J. Simpson]

My bathroom.

[Prosecutor]

Did you put anything into that hamper on June 12th?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure I did.

[Prosecutor]

You took a shower in the morning, right? When you went to go to the place?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes, I believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you put any of your towels in the hamper that day?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Can you, to the best of your memory, Mr. Simpson, describe to me me the socks that you wore to the recital on June 12th.

[O.J. Simpson]

They were black. That's all I can recall.

[Prosecutor]

What kind of material were the socks made of?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

They fix socks or thin socks. Stretch socks. Can you describe them?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

You don't know?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Bas. What kind of shoes you wore? Black loafers, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

What do you. What kind of socks do you usually wear with those black loafers?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not real thick, but other than that, if they're black. Black socks.

[Prosecutor]

Black socks. Not thick, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would imagine not thick. I didn't do sheer. Could be.

[Prosecutor]

How high?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Torn. Are there any tears in the socks? Any holes in them?

[O.J. Simpson]

I. I don't know. I don't think so. I can't recall seeing any holes. Was on.

[Prosecutor]

Now, the socks that were introduced that trial, you. You were there when they were introduced, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall ever seeing them introduced at trial.

[Prosecutor]

The actual socks that were taken by the police, you do not remember seeing them?

[O.J. Simpson]

I never saw them.

[Prosecutor]

Did you examine them?

[O.J. Simpson]

Never.

[Prosecutor]

You never said, let me see if these are mine.

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Did you examine the gloves to see if they were yours?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah, I watched. I looked at gloves.

[Prosecutor]

Were they yours?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

Not sure.

[O.J. Simpson]

I think they're too small to be mine.

[Prosecutor]

But you're not sure it could be yours, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't think so.

[Prosecutor]

They could be correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so.

[Prosecutor]

Are you positive?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm pretty positive.

[Prosecutor]

Pretty, but not 100% correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm pretty positive they weren't mine, but not 100% correct.

[Defense Attorney]

That's argument.

[Prosecutor]

The last four answers, not a hundred percent correct. He don't tell him what to say, Mr. Leonard.

[Defense Attorney]

I'm not telling him what to say.

[Prosecutor]

Well, no, he hasn't, Mr. Leonard, and you know he hasn't. 100 positive he can answer that. Mr. Baker, it's obviously don't tell my

[Defense Attorney]

client what he can answer, please.

[Prosecutor]

But it's a clear question. You are not a hundred percent positive. Correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

After I tried them on, I'm 100% positive they weren't mine.

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[Prosecutor]

Before you tried them on, you were not 100 positive, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

Correct.

[Prosecutor]

And because you say they're too tight, that's what made you positive. Is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

They're too small. Period.

[Prosecutor]

They didn't fit at all. Is that right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not close.

[Prosecutor]

Couldn't even get on your hands right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not close.

[Prosecutor]

Did you try them on without. What do you call it, Latex gloves?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, it wasn't latex.

[Prosecutor]

What was it, Mr. Baker?

[Defense Attorney]

I can't tell you. But it's not latex.

[Prosecutor]

Why can't you tell me?

[Defense Attorney]

Because I can't remember. I'd be happy to.

[Prosecutor]

What was it? Do you know what those gloves were?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

The kind of gloves that you might, you know, use to clean things or garden with or anything like that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not me.

[Prosecutor]

You ever wear those kind of gloves before?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you? So your answer is clear. Without trying on. Without putting on latex or rubber gloves or plastic gloves beforehand, did you ever try those gloves on that were incorporated court?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Is there any reason why one of the first things you didn't do when you saw those gloves was try them on?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sorry?

[Prosecutor]

Why didn't you try the gloves on immediately when you first saw them to show everybody that they weren't yours?

[Defense Attorney]

You mean when he was a criminal,

[Prosecutor]

when he first saw them in the courtroom? They're not.

[Defense Attorney]

Your gloves are around him.

[Prosecutor]

He can't get up. He can't move. Did you ask. Did you ask to try them on?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Now, what about the watch cap or the. The hat? You remember that hat, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Did you examine that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah.

[Prosecutor]

Did you try it on?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Was it your hat?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so. No.

[Prosecutor]

Are you 100% positive?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And why don't you think it's your hat?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I saw that they took one from my house, and I don't ever recall having more than one.

[Prosecutor]

How do you know they took one from your house?

[O.J. Simpson]

I saw it in the discovery. I think you showed it to me today.

[Prosecutor]

The picture I showed you?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

So you. You believe that you only owned one watch cap like that? Is that what you're saying?

[O.J. Simpson]

If I own one, yes.

[Prosecutor]

But you hadn't used any watch caps in the. A long time, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

So you're not 100 sure how many watch caps you owned as of June 12, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, that's wrong. I've only called buying one my whole Life.

[Prosecutor]

Are you 100 sure that you only had one watch cap like the one that was in court in your home on June 12th?

[O.J. Simpson]

That was mine. Yes. Yeah, that was mine. Yes,

[Prosecutor]

keep saying that was mine. Did you have anybody else's watch cap?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I don't know what Nicole might have put in my house.

[Prosecutor]

Did you wear a watch cap on June 12, 1994, at any time?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Now, why didn't you look at the sock? Excuse me? Why didn't you look at the socks?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. I just never saw them in the courtroom.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask to look at them?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Mr. Simpson, where do you shop for socks? Or where did you.

[O.J. Simpson]

Everywhere.

[Prosecutor]

Can you name some stores where you shop for socks in June of 1994?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Excuse me, I'm looking for something. You knew. Did you know the schedule of Nicole's housekeeper?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You knew she didn't work Sunday nights, though, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't know she was coming back Sunday nights or not.

[Prosecutor]

She didn't sleep there Sundays, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

What do you mean you didn't know she was coming back?

[O.J. Simpson]

Most housekeepers come back Sunday night.

[Prosecutor]

You're saying you didn't know what her schedule was at all?

[O.J. Simpson]

That's correct.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know. Do you know why the ski cap found. Excuse me. Do you know why the watch cap found? That Bundy had hair, had Hair matching yours?

[O.J. Simpson]

I think that's miscarriage. Yes, I know that.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the watch cap at Bundy had hair consistent with yours?

[O.J. Simpson]

Some hair is consistent with mine, yeah. No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you have any explanation for that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Maybe because I'm black.

[Prosecutor]

Is that the only explanation you know of?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Just because you're a black person, don't answer that.

[Defense Attorney]

He doesn't have to have any explanation for that.

[Prosecutor]

I didn't say he had to. I'm only. Ask him if he has any explanation.

[Defense Attorney]

His explanations in terms of that evidence will come from his attorneys.

[Prosecutor]

Do you have. Do you know why hair consistent with your hair was found on Ron Goldman shirt?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you have any explanation for that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm no expert on similarities of hairs and shirts.

[Prosecutor]

Excuse me.

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm no expert on similarities of hairs, for sure. So I.

[Prosecutor]

The answer is you don't know why. That is correct.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Do you know why that the glove found at Rockingham had hair consistent with Ron Goldman's hair?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the glove at Rockingham had hair consistent with Nicole's hair?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sorry?

[Prosecutor]

The glove. Do you know why the glove at Rockingham had hair consistent with Nicole's hair?

[Defense Attorney]

Well, I'm not sure there's any foundation for that question, and so I'm an instructor not to answer it.

[Prosecutor]

You're saying there. There was no hair matching Nicole's hair found on the Rockingham glove?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm saying I'm not aware that that was so. And if it was so, I would have no explanation. No, I would have no knowledge of. I have no knowledge. I'm no expert on hair, but

[Prosecutor]

do you know why the glove found at Rockingham had fibers matching Ron Gold's Ron Goldman shirt?

[O.J. Simpson]

I mean, I have. No. No. I don't have no knowledge of any of this that you're saying.

[Prosecutor]

Do you. Do you know why the glove found that Rockingham had fibers matching the carpet in your Bronco?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have no knowledge of any of this.

[Prosecutor]

I have a few more to go through. Do you know why the glove at Rockingham had blood consistent with a mixture of yours, Ron Goldman's and Nicole's?

[O.J. Simpson]

I have no knowledge of this.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the blood on the panel of the Bronco matched your blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the blood on the console of the Bronco matched your blood?

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the blood on the panel of the Bronco was consistent with a mixture of Ron Goldman's and your blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the blood on the Council of The Bronco is consistent with a mixture of Ron Goldman's and Nicole's blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the blood in the Bronco matched Nicole's blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the blood found on the Rocking Ham driveway matched your blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the blood in the foyer of your house matched your blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the blood on the socks found in your bedroom matched your blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

And do you know why the blood on the socks in your bedroom matched Nicole's blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the blood at Bundy matched your blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Do you know why the shoe prints found at Bundy matched Bruno Molly shoes?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You have? No. You have no knowledge about any of these things?

[O.J. Simpson]

Other than what I heard in court? No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you have a rug in your foyer?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so. Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Was it there the night that you left?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

What do you mean you would assume so?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would assume so.

[Prosecutor]

What color was the rug?

[O.J. Simpson]

It's a Persian word.

[Prosecutor]

Was it located on the foyer at a spot where blood was found?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Was located away from the blood?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Was the rug there when you came home?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

Is the rug missing?

[O.J. Simpson]

No. It's there.

[Prosecutor]

Do you have any explanation for how this evidence got where it was found?

[Defense Attorney]

Don't answer that. He doesn't have to have an explanation.

[Prosecutor]

You're not gonna let him answer that?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You understand that? I'm not suggesting that he has to have one. I'm just asking if he has one.

[Defense Attorney]

Oh, I can tell you. I'm obviously not going to tell you how to ask questions, but I'm not going to answer that question.

[Prosecutor]

Apart from anything you learned from your lawyers, do you have an explanation for how any of this evidence got where it was?

[Defense Attorney]

I think you've gone through it all and he doesn't have any knowledge about that, and we don't. He will not be in our expert designation.

[Prosecutor]

Before you ever spoke to a lawyer after you left Los Angeles, did you have any knowledge or information as to how any of that evidence was found? Where it was?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Defense Attorney]

If in fact it was found where they say it was found,

[Prosecutor]

do you have any facts or information to suggest how that evidence got where it was found?

[O.J. Simpson]

Other than what I learned in court.

[Prosecutor]

When you say learned in court, you mean what. What your lawyer's arguing in court?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Yeah. Other than what you learned in court?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Have you ever found out what those noises were that Kato Kalin heard?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ever? Ask him.

[O.J. Simpson]

Ask him What.

[Prosecutor]

What the noises were.

[O.J. Simpson]

He didn't know.

[Prosecutor]

When did you ask him?

[O.J. Simpson]

When he was looking. He was saying he heard noises. He thought it was an earthquake. And I may have asked him the next day when I got home.

[Prosecutor]

When you got home. When did you first see Kaylyn?

[O.J. Simpson]

That afternoon.

[Prosecutor]

Where?

[O.J. Simpson]

At my house.

[Prosecutor]

In the main residence?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

How did he get there?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Did you invite him in? He came in uninvited.

[O.J. Simpson]

I think everybody was invited that day.

[Prosecutor]

That's when you had your family there and a couple of your close friends, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

People were coming and going?

[Prosecutor]

Lots of people?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

More than 20 or 30?

[O.J. Simpson]

I would imagine so, but I'm not sure.

[Prosecutor]

And did you. What did you talk to Cato about? You said he's talked about the. The noises. Tell me about that conversation.

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe I asked him what was going on.

[Prosecutor]

What does that mean?

[O.J. Simpson]

I was. No one had told me anything. I knew he had by this time had spent time with the police and maybe he. He knew something.

[Prosecutor]

What did he say?

[O.J. Simpson]

He didn't know anything.

[Prosecutor]

Nothing.

[O.J. Simpson]

Nothing.

[Prosecutor]

Did he tell you what the police asked him?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Did you ask him?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

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[Prosecutor]

Did you ask him what happened during the evening after you left?

[O.J. Simpson]

Did he find anything?

[Prosecutor]

What did he say?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe he said no. I believe he said he didn't look after you left.

[Prosecutor]

He's told you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe he said he didn't look.

[Prosecutor]

He did not look.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you and he talk about anything else?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Was that the end of your conversation with kaylyn on the 13th?

[O.J. Simpson]

I believe so, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Did you talk about the. The fact that the two of you were together the night before for part of the time?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so, but we might have.

[Prosecutor]

When you say you might have, is it. You have a recollection that you discuss having gone to McDonald's together?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

You did not discuss that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't have a recollection of us discussing that.

[Prosecutor]

Did you say to Cato, you're my alibi, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Was he your alibi?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't know I needed an alibi.

[Prosecutor]

Did you. Did you say that to him?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe so.

[Prosecutor]

Did you discuss anything concerning your alibi or with Cato Kalin?

[O.J. Simpson]

I didn't believe I needed an alibi.

[Defense Attorney]

Wait a minute.

[Prosecutor]

Did you say to Cato, you were with me, right? Cato?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think so. He was obviously with me when we went to get a burger, but I don't believe that we discussed that.

[Prosecutor]

Did you say to Kaylyn, you saw me go in the house, it in you or words of that effect?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall saying that, no.

[Prosecutor]

Did you hear him testify to that?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

Is. Is Kaylin. Was Kaylin's testimony truthful?

[Defense Attorney]

Well, you don't.

[Prosecutor]

Don't answer that with what you heard. And you were in a position to gauge was it true?

[Defense Attorney]

Well, he. He is not going to testify in his trial whether he's truthful or untruthful. He's going to testify, justify what he observed and what he witnessed and what he said.

[Prosecutor]

What Kalin said about you, was that truth?

[Defense Attorney]

Don't answer that. We are not. He is not going to be interrogated about what he thinks somebody else is truthful or untruthful.

[Prosecutor]

Did Cato say anything about you that, to your knowledge, was false?

[Defense Attorney]

Again, the same objections.

[Prosecutor]

I'm not asking for his assessment of his credibility. I mean, asking me for particular information, really?

[Defense Attorney]

It seems like exactly the same thing to me. He testified for days on the stand.

[O.J. Simpson]

And.

[Defense Attorney]

And that is too broad. You can ask him questions, I suppose, about what Mr. Kalin said. And if he believes it's true or false based upon his own empirical knowledge, I'll obviously allow that. But I'm not going to allow you a broad blanket anything in however many days he was on the stand.

[Prosecutor]

Well, let me. You're not gonna let him answer that question? Okay. Do you remember anything that Kalin said that right now stands out in your mind as false?

[Defense Attorney]

It's okay if you have any recollection of what he testified to in all those days?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't really have a clear recollection of all the things that he testified to and anything really specific. So I can't speak on anything. Just really specific? No

[Prosecutor]

oops on this. On the day of the 13th, when Kalyn is at your house, did you and he go off into your kitchen?

[O.J. Simpson]

We may have.

[Prosecutor]

And what did you and he discuss in your kitchen?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't think we walked into the. If we walked into the kitchen, it wasn't to discuss anything specific, I don't think.

[Prosecutor]

But when you did get into the kitchen, what did you and he discuss?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Prosecutor]

You have no recollection?

[O.J. Simpson]

No.

[Prosecutor]

When Kaylin came into your house, were you glued to the TV set? What are we talking about on the 13th, Mr. Baker?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know what that means.

[Prosecutor]

In other words, were you watching television? Three televisions.

[O.J. Simpson]

I was sitting with my mom and a bunch of people. The TVs were on. I don't know if I was dozing or watching at that time.

[Prosecutor]

And. And what you were watching was coverage about your wife's murder, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

We're trying to find information when we're looking at tv, yes.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And at some point, you asked Kalin to go into the kitchen for a minute, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall that.

[Prosecutor]

But the two of you went into the kitchen area, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

We may have.

[Prosecutor]

The two of you were alone, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall that, no.

[Prosecutor]

And he hopped up on the sink, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall that, no.

[Prosecutor]

You leaned against the sink, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall that, no.

[Prosecutor]

And then you said to him, you saw me go in the house, didn't you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall that.

[Prosecutor]

We went to McDonald's. And then you saw me going to the house, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall that.

[Prosecutor]

Do you deny those conversations?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't believe I had those conversations. I just don't recall having them.

[Prosecutor]

Are you positive that those. That that conversation did not occur?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall talking to him in the kitchen about that, no.

[Prosecutor]

But you're not sure?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall doing it, no.

[Prosecutor]

Are you sure?

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm sure. I don't recall doing it.

[Prosecutor]

If Kaylyn says it happened, you wouldn't have any reason to doubt him, correct?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know.

[Prosecutor]

Why not?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because I don't recall doing it.

[Prosecutor]

The day. The day withdrawn on June 11, you spent some time watching television with Cato, didn't you?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. He may have came in while I was watching tv.

[Prosecutor]

And you were watching the World According to Garp, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

With Robin Williams, right?

[O.J. Simpson]

I may have.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. Why don't you change it? We'll break it 4:30. Excuse me?

[Defense Attorney]

Why don't we stop it?

[Prosecutor]

Stop what?

[Defense Attorney]

The depot.

[Prosecutor]

Oh. I was going to ask a couple more questions about Garp.

[Defense Attorney]

Save Garp.

[Prosecutor]

Okay. And then I've got. I'll save Garp. I can't roll down a couple floors. I'm going to leave you in suspense. No, it's okay with me. Half an hour, will you?

[Defense Attorney]

Michael, I know you don't.

[Announcer]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see. See for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

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