985. Creating a Resilient and Engaged Workplace Culture w/ Eric Termuende

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Fullerton Unfiltered – Episode 985

“Creating a Resilient and Engaged Workplace Culture” w/ Eric Termuende
Release Date: July 1, 2026
Host: Brian Fullerton
Guest: Eric Termuende (Author, Workplace Culture Expert)
Event Tie-In: Recorded at the Chicago LeanScaper People Intensive

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Brian Fullerton hosts workplace culture expert Eric Termuende for an unfiltered conversation centered on building resilient, engaged, and intentional workplace cultures. Eric shares real-world, actionable strategies for attracting and retaining the right people by leaning into an organization’s unique “unfair advantage,” rituals, and authentic values—while also acknowledging the importance of repelling the wrong fits. The discussion is rich with practical frameworks, relatable anecdotes, and the challenge to stop chasing best-culture clichés and instead articulate what truly makes a business tick.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Eric Termuende’s Background & Introduction (02:28)

• Personal Journey: Eric graduated from the University of Calgary with a business degree but, after struggling to find the right job fit, co-founded a company focused on quantifying and diagnosing workplace culture.
• Original Problem: People were job-hopping and applying blindly, unable to tell what workplaces truly fit them. His company built a cultural diagnostic tool to measure workplace experience, emphasizing that skills are transferable but culture fit is key.

What Makes a “Best” Workplace Culture? (03:04 – 05:22)

• No Universal Culture: There’s no “best” culture, only the best fit for individuals.

  “There’s no best culture. There’s the best culture for you. There’s the best culture for me.” – Eric Termuende [03:28]

• Articulation is Key: Success lies in articulating the specific stories, rituals, and nuances of your business—making it easier to attract and keep the right people.

Attracting vs. Repelling Talent (05:25 – 06:28)

• Cilantro Philosophy: Culture should be polarizing like cilantro—you want those who love what you offer and ensure those who don’t are weeded out.

  “We’re looking for the people who would love what we’ve got and hate what we don’t… You’re going to repel the people who hate what they’re not building.” – Eric Termuende [05:54, 06:28]

The HART Framework: Habits, Artifacts, Rituals, Traditions (06:28)

• H.A.R.T. Defined:
  • Habits: Daily behaviors and ways of showing up.
  • Artifacts: Physical or symbolic objects the team gravitates around.
  • Rituals: Actions taken for wins, failures, hires, and departures.
  • Traditions: Recurring activities—e.g., holiday celebrations, birthday recognitions, religious connections.
• Intentionality: Knowing and crafting your HART makes cultural alignment and longevity possible.

The Danger of Being “Everything to Everyone” (07:21 – 08:00)

• Pitfall: Trying to appeal to everyone leads to exhaustion, fragmentation, and identity loss.

  “When you try and be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to anyone.” – Eric Termuende [07:53]

Uncovering Your “Unfair Advantage” (08:01 – 09:15)

• Business Examples:
  • Volvo: Safety
  • Costco: Hot dogs as a lead magnet
  • Amazon: Speed and returns
• Advice: Find and widely communicate your business’s true, unique edge.

  “The more we can own that one thing better than anyone else, the better we’re going to be at attracting those right people.” – Eric Termuende [09:04]

Values and Bold Organizational Choices (09:15 – 10:48)

• Nike & Kaepernick Case: Nike’s values-based alignment fueled growth, while brands like REI (closed on Black Friday) and Chick-fil-A (closed Sundays) show that strong stances repel some but magnetize their right people.

  “They said this is our best recruiting tool now. Because if you are trying to choose…and you're looking for the kind of company that values this kind of thing, this is what we stand for.” – Eric Termuende [09:34]

Moving Beyond Generic Values (10:10 – 10:48)

• Empty Clichés: Statements like “we’re a family” mean little if everyone says them—real differentiation comes from specific, authentic articulation.

Why People Matter – and When They're the Problem (12:05 – 13:57)

• Root of Happiness: Feeling seen, heard, and understood at work increases engagement and commitment, regardless of whether ideas are implemented.

  “Make sure people feel seen, heard, and understood whether their ideas are implemented or not.” – Eric Termuende [12:28]

• People As Double-Edged Sword: When teams are aligned, people are the best part; when toxic, they’re the reason people leave.

Handling Culture Mismatches / Problem Employees (14:03 – 16:30)

• Assessment Framework:
  • Value the employee brings
  • Risk the employee poses to team cohesion
• Decision Process: If a potentially toxic “B+” player could make key “A players” leave, consider graceful, honest conversations to encourage self-selection.

  “You kind of get them to self-select in or out...it’s not you suggesting that it's a bad fit.” – Eric Termuende [16:06]

Retention as Recruitment (16:45)

• Positive Departures: Exiting employees are ambassadors; preserve goodwill for recruitment and reputation.

  “Your best attraction strategy is a good retention strategy.” – Eric Termuende [16:45]

Organizational Evolution & Leadership Growth (17:07 – 17:57)

• Natural Attrition: Growing organizations outgrow certain people—and certain leaders. Stagnation = trouble.

  “If the organization is what it was five months ago, you're probably not growing fast enough.” – Eric Termuende [17:41]

The Challenge of Clarity in Teams (18:24 – 19:20)

• Critical Hurdle: Consistent clarity in roles and expectations, communicated effectively, is vital and often lacking.

  “The way I was communicating wasn’t effective or what? The communication that they were requesting, what they heard and what I was saying were totally different.” – Brian Fullerton [18:38-19:13]

The Art of Checking In vs. Checking On (20:07 – 21:24)

• Important Distinction:
  • Checking On: Hierarchical and transactional—e.g., “How are things?”
  • Checking In: Personal, builds connection—e.g., “How are you?” “Are you okay?”

  “I check on my pizza in the oven. I check in with people that I care about… Checking in is a very small switch. It’s saying, hey, how are you?” – Eric Termuende [20:54, 21:03]

Fixed vs. Growth Mindset; The Myth of Permanent Plans (21:24 – 22:14)

• Adaptation Required: The speed of change outpaces rigid 5-year goals; have a direction, not a fixed destination.

  “The biggest problem with a five-year goal is the lesson that you choose to ignore three weeks into that five-year goal because it wasn’t part of the plan.” – Eric Termuende [21:50] “Put your goals in concrete, your plans in sand.” – Podcast Host [22:01]

Action Creates Clarity (23:14 – 23:49)

• Key Concept: Clarity comes through action, not planning alone.

  “We often wait for clarity before we take action. And the central idea of the book is that action is the only thing that's going to actually create clarity.” – Eric Termuende [23:32]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Differentiation:

  “When you try and be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to anyone.” – Eric Termuende [07:53]

• On Values-Driven Recruiting:

  “Not only did [Nike] say, this is what we stand for, they said this is our best recruiting tool now… if you don’t vibe with it, you probably weren’t in the right place anyway.” – Eric Termuende [09:15-09:49]

• On Team Dynamics:

  “People are what people love and people are what people hate.” – Eric Termuende [13:45]

• On Leadership Evolution:

  “If the organization is what it was five months ago, you’re probably not growing fast enough.” – Eric Termuende [17:41]

• On Checking In:

  “I check on my pizza in the oven. I check in with people that I care about.” – Eric Termuende [20:54]

• On Taking Action:

  “Action is the only thing that's going to actually create clarity.” – Eric Termuende [23:32]

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Key Timestamps

• Eric’s Background: 02:28
• Cultural Fit vs. Skill Fit: 03:04 – 03:28
• Cilantro Analogy & HART Framework: 05:38 – 07:04
• Unfair Advantage Examples (Volvo, Costco, Amazon): 08:00 – 09:15
• Nike & Values-Driven Decisions: 09:15 – 10:48
• Handling Toxic Employees: 14:43 – 16:30
• Retention as Recruiting: 16:45
• Clarity Challenge in Teams: 18:24 – 19:20
• Checking In vs. Checking On: 20:07 – 21:24
• Growth Mindset & Planning: 21:24 – 22:14
• Direction vs. Destination: 23:14 – 23:32
• Action Creates Clarity: 23:32 – 23:49

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Resources & Connect with Eric Termuende

• Website: erictermuende.com
• LinkedIn: Eric Termuende
• Book: Coming April next year

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Final Thoughts

Brian and Eric deliver an energetic, relatable conversation that goes beyond theoretical HR talk—offering real advice for owners and leaders seeking to sharpen their culture, attract and keep top people, and stay resilient in the face of rapid change. Eric’s frameworks, stories, and memorable analogies (cilantro, hot dogs, checking in vs. checking on) make this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to level up their business culture.

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Transcript

[Brian Fullerton]

Yeah, it's true. Brian's got a discount code for just about everything you need to run your business smarter and save serious money. Use promo code Brian's10 with our trusted partners like LeanScaper, CycleCPA, iotsotunes, Cujo Equipment, Defender, Proven Locks, Ballard Industries, and many more. Check the podcast description for the full list of partners and links and use Brian's 10 to start saving today.

[Eric Tund]

You're now listening to the Fullerton Unfiltered podcast. Straightforward, no nonsense business advice. Completely on unfiltered.

[Podcast Host]

Grow your business, grow your life.

[Eric Tund]

Now here's your host, Brian Fullerton.

[Podcast Host]

All right, guys, we're jumping on into it here today. Super excited about having a VIP guest. Here we are over at the Chicago leanscaper People Intensive. Fresh off the big stage, we've got Eric Tund. Join us. How's it going, brother?

[Eric Tund]

Man, I am ready to be unfiltered.

[Podcast Host]

There you go.

[Eric Tund]

Filtered version on stage. Unfiltered. Offstage.

[Podcast Host]

Even more unfiltered.

[Eric Tund]

Even more unfiltered.

[Podcast Host]

There you go. There you go.

[Eric Tund]

Let's rip it.

[Podcast Host]

Excited, man. Excited to have you on here today. You just got gave a great presentation. For an hour, I was taking notes, like, furiously. As somebody who's been like, in a lot of these environments, I've seen and heard quite a bit of, you know, content along the way. I have a lot of notes from your presentation specifically. So bravo. Great job.

[Eric Tund]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

If I'm learning, other people learning. If other people learn it, I'm learning. I feel like that, you know, and it's been a great value add to the morning show.

[Eric Tund]

I appreciate that. Although notes don't necessarily specify, like, he's way too fast. This. I don't know what those notes said, but I'm going to assume there's some. There's something I'm, I'm like an X

[Podcast Host]

and O strategy kind of guy. Like, I need tactical, right? Like, hey, you got to be better with people. Fantastic. Yeah, like the esoteric doesn't get me, you know, so when you're like, hey, there's, there's the trust triangle thing that you shared and all that, I'm like, I literally. The real story, true life and that. We'll break it. You're back around down here in a second. But as I step out for five, 10 minutes, I had a phone call with the team. There's like little stress and frustration and I'm like, actually 10 seconds ago, I just learned something that helps me do. Literally applied it while I was talking on the Phone in the lobby. So I love stuff like that that helps me move the needle forward as they say. So let me do this really quick for folks that don't know you. Just to slow down the speed up. Give me like the 32nd on your background for. You're a new guest to our show. Folks maybe not know who you are, but. But let's just take it from the top. What's your background?

[Eric Tund]

Well, you know, I went to school, University of Calgary, got a business degree, found that couldn't get a job. Built my own company with my co founder just mostly out of necessity.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Eric Tund]

And what we've, the problem we were solving at the time is to help at the time it was like the next generation find good meaningful work. You know, we found that 10 year was shorter than it had ever been before. People were applying to 70 or 80 jobs before landing that one that they never knew was the right fit in the first place.

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Eric Tund]

So we built a tool, we called it a cultural diagnostic tool that quantified workplace experience. So even, you know, you get landscaping companies here that we would argue are probably very much competing for skills.

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Eric Tund]

But I would also argue they're probably not competing for talent. Now what do I mean by that? You know, you can get someone who can push them more, who can ride them, or you can get someone who can do the skills for sure. But the culture from one shop to another is going to be totally different. And our argument was that the more you can articulate the cultural nuances of the organization, how you come to work, how you show up, how you interact with people, the better you're going to be at attracting and keeping talent.

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Eric Tund]

And what I'm also saying is like there's no best culture. There's the best culture for you. There's the best culture for me. And if we can tell those stories, articulate, articulate them well enough, we're going to be able to attract and keep the right people, no problem.

[Podcast Host]

How did you get started in this entire conversation? I want to like even like, like go like pre prehistoric care. How did you even get started with. Is this like a psychology conversation? Is it like a business leadership, you know, development conversation, corporate America conversation? How did you get so passionate about this topic?

[Eric Tund]

Cause I couldn't find a job. I applied to 70 different places. I looked at like the best places to work list. You know, I thought I should work at Deloitte or I should work at Hilton or I should work at, I don't know, John Deere. I should work at Milwaukee. Like, these are all great organizations, but that doesn't mean they're great organizations for me. You know what I mean? And that's not a slight to anyone. That's not even a slight to me. And then I was kind of like, we're talking to my co founder. It's like, well, how do we even know before you're three weeks into the job what a good culture is? You know, like, let's just use in the United States right now, number two and three, according to Fortune, best places to work. Number two is the Hilton hotel chain. Number three is Cisco. Okay, Cisco, based in San Francisco.

[Podcast Host]

I wouldn't have put those up at the top, right?

[Eric Tund]

No, kid, these are huge, fantastic organizations. However, somebody that makes a bed in a Hilton hotel doesn't want to work on Internet infrastructure at Cisco. A valet at Hilton doesn't want to work at a San Francisco skyscraper in a server room. Sure. They're entirely different organizations that have great cultures. So what we're trying to figure out is, well, a great culture for who? You know, and if you could actually tell that story, then guys like me who couldn't find a job would actually start to know where to look because they would build it. Like, you know, Now a big conversation is, well, do you want an office job? Do you want a job in the field? You know, are you remote? Is it flexible? Our argument is like, we don't care. Pick one. Pick a lane. Be really firm on what direction you want to go, and you're going to attract more than enough people who want that environment that you're creating. It's not about bending over backwards and appealing to Gen Z or whatever it is. This is about being really intentional about the unique culture that we're trying to build.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

And attracting people that want that experience we have.

[Podcast Host]

I want to go with that. Last night you just said attracting the right people. Bradley was just in there 10 seconds ago. He's doing his presentation, and he's talking about not only attracting the right talent, but repelling the wrong talent. Talk to me for a couple quick minutes about that because.

[Eric Tund]

Okay. I think we should treat our workplace culture like cilantro. What do you. How do you feel about cilantro?

[Podcast Host]

I'm a no cilantro guy.

[Eric Tund]

Me neither. How about black licorice?

[Podcast Host]

No, no, that's like Travis said.

[Eric Tund]

Exactly. Does pineapple belong on pizza?

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely not.

[Eric Tund]

Absolutely not.

[Podcast Host]

Do we just become best friends?

[Eric Tund]

That's right.

[Podcast Host]

Dude.

[Eric Tund]

I'm telling you, I think we should treat culture the same way. You know, like we're looking for the people who would love what we've got and hate what we don't. And I think even in this room of 700 people, you're going to have a lot of people doing a very similar job, but have a very different culture, have a very different way of approaching it, have a very different way of scheduling, have a very different way of building their organization. And my advice to them would be, the more you can be intentional about what you're building, the better you're going to be at attracting talent. Because not only are you going to get the people that love what you're building, you're going to repel the people who hate what they're not building.

[Podcast Host]

Exactly.

[Eric Tund]

You know what I'm saying? So I think the more intentional we could be, I call it, we need to discover our heart. Your habits, your artifacts, your rituals and your traditions. H A R T Habits.

[Producer]

What do you.

[Eric Tund]

How do you show up every day? Artifacts. What do you actually gravitate around physically? Rituals. What happens when you crush a sales goal, when you miss one, when you bring someone on, when you let someone go. And traditions like, is it a religious organization? Organization. Do you celebrate birthdays? What happens at different holidays? I don't care what the answer is. But the more intentional you are about discovering that, the better you're going to be at attracting the right people, detracting the wrong people, and building an organization that can stand the test of time.

[Podcast Host]

That's really, really good stuff. If you guys didn't write all that down or you're on a lawnmower, hit backspace backs or back 30, back 30 on your podcast player, right? And really listen to that. Is that the glue that so many folks are trying to bake into their organization? Is that the pixie dust? Is that the. Okay, this is culture, right?

[Eric Tund]

Well, I think what's happening is that most organizations, I'm not pointing fingers at everyone, but most organizations are trying to be everything to everyone. They think we need to be on TikTok, we need to be on Snapchat, we need to be on this and that and the other thing we just need. And then they get exhausted, then they get fragmented, then they lose focus. They don't understand what their priorities are. The invitation that I would say for those people who are trying to do everything right now is that when you try and be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to anyone. So you don't have an identity. You don't have that heart exercise dialed. You don't know what your cilantro components are, you know, I also invite people to consider what their, like, unfair advantage is. What's the thing that you do better than anyone else that almost seems like you're cheating? I'm, I'm putting you to the test.

[Podcast Host]

I love this.

[Eric Tund]

What is, what is Volvo's unfair advantage?

[Podcast Host]

I feel like it's their track record than they've ever had a death in some of their vehicles.

[Eric Tund]

Safety, safety. 100%.

[Podcast Host]

I know that we were shopping for a car and it was like in the top two list because the Volvo, the, the, the statement on the XC90 was nobody's ever died in this car. That's right. And my wife and I are like, well, we're having a baby. Who cares about us, apparently. But now that we have a baby, like that now becomes the only thing, not price, the only thing we shot for.

[Eric Tund]

Okay, so what's Costco's unfair advantage?

[Podcast Host]

Probably their lead gen in lawsuit on the hot dogs.

[Eric Tund]

Yeah, 100%.

[Podcast Host]

Like, if I was Kroger, I'm thinking, how to get all these damn people in here. Well, we should give away a bunch of free, cheap hot dogs.

[Eric Tund]

Okay, what's Amazon's un. Fair advantage?

[Podcast Host]

I guess prime. But honestly, it's probably the no haggle return.

[Eric Tund]

Yeah. I would say two things. Speed and returnability.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

You know? Yeah. Now, all of these three organizations, they had a very distinct, unique, unfair advantage. I'm asking myself now, if I'm listening, what's my unfair advantage? And how can we scream that from the mountaintops? Because if you're looking for a safe car, you're only going Volvo.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Eric Tund]

You know?

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Eric Tund]

But depending on what you're looking for, and I think culture is the exact same way, the more we can own that one thing better than anyone else, the better we're going to be at attracting those right people. I'll give you one more example.

[Podcast Host]

Please.

[Eric Tund]

This is going to be controversial, but I'm not getting political. This is just how it went. 2018. Nike sided with Colin Kaepernick. He took a knee on the side of the football field. People were pissed. And Nike's bottom Line grew $6 billion that next quarter. Because not only did they say, this is what we stand for, you know, they said this is our best recruiting tool now. Because if you are trying to choose between Adidas or Puma or Under Armour or Reebok and you're looking for the kind of company that values this kind of thing, this is what we stand for. And hey, if you don't, great, you probably weren't in the right place in the first place.

[Podcast Host]

Let me, let me ask you this interesting question. That's a great conversation starter. So when you're talking about values, like people want to connect with values, like they want to feel like they're maybe heard. You had your heart analogy. That was fantastic.

[Eric Tund]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Are, are, are folks not explaining like who they are enough? Like the, the value conversation?

[Eric Tund]

We're, we're a family organization that, you know, values everyone and ensures everyone's voice. Like, what, what is that?

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Eric Tund]

You know, there's actually just nothing that differentiates you when you say you're the same thing as everyone else.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

Nike said we stand for a dude who takes a knee on the side of the field for whatever, you know, and, and people are like, whoa, yeah, you know, REI closes their stores on Black Friday. You tell me another retailer that closes their stores on the busiest weekend of the year. That's insane.

[Podcast Host]

Or Chick Fil A on Sunday or

[Eric Tund]

Chick Fil A on Sundays. Or you get like a Patagonia who now is owned by a trust that's designed to serve for like they're doing things.

[Podcast Host]

I relate with the Carhartt, sure. Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

Yeah. Another great example. But is it the fabric that you love with Carhartt? It's what Carhartt stands for. So you get a room of 700 incredible people in incredible businesses. My invitation for them is to figure out the thing that separates them from the other 700 folks in the room, knowing that what their, their skills are, are, are very transferable. Not to minimize or diminish anything. Very, very technical, great hard working individuals. What is it outside of that that differentiates you that will allow you to have, you know, someone who's living in Kansas City, who has a bunch of options, they want to get into this line of work. What are you choosing and why? And I bet you it's not the job. I'll bet you it's not the equipment. I'll bet you it's what the company stands for and who it is that works for that company. That stands for something that, that's really good stuff.

[Podcast Host]

I want to, I want to go back to something you said in your presentation. Something that a lot of folks, you know, say why they like working here is the people. Help me connect the dots between what you just shared. And then folks always saying, like, what's something that we love about our last job or this job or the next job or whatever, right? It's, it's the people. How do I translate? How do I, how Do I? That's a great engine. Give me the transmission. Like, how do I interject that to where people? If I said to one of my. You asked one of my team members, hey, Ryan, why do you like working at brands? On fan? He says, the people. Yeah, how do I get there?

[Eric Tund]

Okay, so first thing that I would say is that what we found in some of the work that we did is that the root of happiness was an actual, like actually a sense of contribution, you know, so when people feel like they have a voice that's seen, heard and understood, they want to participate more, you know, and let me be very clear because I think we often get this confused with younger folks, especially if their voice is heard. The idea does not have to be implemented. You know, if you ask some 20 year old what should we do? And they say, well, we should try something. He said, well, we tried that five years ago, here's why it didn't work. That's just as valuable as implementing whatever their idea is because they feel seen, heard and understood. Make sure people feel seen, heard and understood whether their ideas are implemented or not. They're going to be more committed, better sense of grit, better sense of determination, drive. All of those things. All that's great.

[Podcast Host]

Makes sense.

[Eric Tund]

The other thing that I'd say is going back to this culture element is that if everyone in the team is aligned with the vision, sort of like that mission of what the organization stands for, that cilantro component, that unfair advantage you're going to get people that are like valued, who want to support that mission anyways. And so you find that you're joining, you hear this all the time. When people, organizations that are running really, really well, you're like, these are my people, these are my people. And what happened is whoever the owner, the leader is, they've done a really good job at setting out the direction of the organization and what you stand for so that it attracts, I'm putting in air quotes, my people. And so I think that, yeah, people are what people love most about the work. It's funny, I didn't say the back half of that. The thing that people hate most about the work they do is often the people too.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Eric Tund]

Well, yeah, of course you get toxic teams. You hear it all the time. You don't quit jobs, you quit bosses, you quit people.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, right, people.

[Eric Tund]

So people are what people love and people are what people hate. And I think the more aligned we are in how we're doing our work, who we're doing it with, we can create that fairly Positive environment. And if we don't have that alignment, I think that's the thing that'll be the detriment of the organization, too.

[Podcast Host]

Let me, let me ask you that again. Continuing this conversation, and hopefully I'm not getting too far in the weeds on this. We can zoom out if you want.

[Eric Tund]

We're unfiltered, man. Anything goes.

[Podcast Host]

No, but this is good. What if you have folks, part of your organization that maybe got past the firewall and they've been with you for two to five years? Whatever they're, they're contributing. But maybe, like, culturally, you see some cracks in the foundation, or maybe there's hirers that you're putting, like, and I'll make it a practical example, let's say you got a crew lead out there and you're hiring one or two crew members to be with him, or you're trying to get that guy, Right Hand part of that hardscape landscape crew, and, like, you get along with that guy. But now you're trying to get people to get along with that guy. And maybe his values don't align with yours, the organizations, or maybe the people that you're now tasking on his team. What do you do with an individual like that?

[Eric Tund]

This is a tough one, man. It's a tough one. But let's just break it down. As someone who has no skin in the game, who can easily be like the armchair expert, who can scream from the cheap seats, you know, I recognize my position when I say this. There's two things I would look for. Say this guy, let's call him a guy. I would. I'd be asking two things. Number one, what's the value he's bringing to the organization? You can use that as a dollars and cents number if you want. Number two, what is the risk of this guy being the foundation of the toxicity across the team, too? So maybe he's a B plus guy, gets his job done. You know, not really a headache. You see some sort of cracks in the foundation. The question I'd be asking myself is, what happens if the relationship with this guy costs two of my A players to leave? That's really what I'm asking. It's like, do I foresee this to be a problem down the road that's going to cost me a lot more than one person. It could cost me four. Sure. And once I have that clarity as to, you know, what the potential risks are and what the potential upside is, I would probably take an appropriate course of action at that point and say, look, if There isn't really a risk of losing great people. And he's doing pretty good work.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

And he's kind of doing it on his own. Maybe not as committed to the team. We kind of see that all the time, especially in the industry. Some people want to just do their work. Check and check out. Yeah, fine. You know, you don't necessarily have to force someone to drink the Kool Aid if they're doing great work and happy doing it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

If it becomes a risk, then I'm always in favor of a short term pain for a medium and long term gain.

[Podcast Host]

Amen.

[Eric Tund]

And it's always hard. Breaking up with anyone is hard. Firing anyone is hard. But I think you just have to be really clear to say, here's where we're going. And then the next important, most important question is, how can you help us get there? And you kind of get them to self select in or out. That way it's not you suggesting that it's a bad fit. It's like, well, wait a second. Actually, this is not what I want to be a part of. Then it's a more amicable split.

[Podcast Host]

That's good. It's very like fair, neutral.

[Eric Tund]

It has to be.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

Because you gotta remember, if that person leaves, what are they saying about your company when they leave? Exactly. You know, you know, the communities are small. It doesn't matter what city we're in. You know, the industry's small, the cities are small. It's just, you know, it's, it's, it's so not worth ending on a sour note.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

You know, because, you know, I said this on stage. I think your best attraction strategy is a good retention strategy. And whether someone leaves because they chose to leave, they outgrew the company. It was no longer a fit. It is important that you want them to say nice things regardless of whether it was a good fit or not.

[Podcast Host]

Do you feel like organizations evolve and that can have some attrition where people, it's just a natural.

[Eric Tund]

Oh, man, I was talking to so many guys downstairs that said, you know, we were, you know, half million, $750,000 business. Now we're doing routine one, $2 million deals. We're 6 million to some. They are entirely different organizations. Totally, entirely different organizations. And I think you see this especially, especially with entrepreneurs and founders. You get the startup CEO, whoever he or she is, they grow the company to a million, to 10 million, I don't know, 100 million, whatever it is.

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Eric Tund]

And then they're like, no, I am not this person. Anymore, and that's okay. You know, I think you're actually doing yourself a huge disservice to try and pretend that your organization is something that it was forget five years ago. Five months ago.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

If the organization is what it was five months ago, you're probably not growing fast enough.

[Podcast Host]

Thousand percent. It's a, it's a disservice, like you said in leadership, for me to be the same guy I was, let alone six months ago, three months ago, 30 minutes ago. Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

I think of that on stage. Like, if I'm not laughing about what I said two years ago, I'm probably not evolving the content fast enough.

[Podcast Host]

Amen. Amen. I love what you're sharing. I love where your thoughts are. This is like I'm equally aligned with everything you're sharing proposing. Like, it's, it's, it's real. It's a real tangible conversation that you can take back to the marketplace and implement into your business. Because the reason I asked some of those questions are some of the typical challenges that we have in our businesses as we're all trying to grow. And I don't think it's long care specific.

[Eric Tund]

What is the most typical sort of hiccup, speed bump obstacle that you're seeing?

[Podcast Host]

I think it's clarity on what, what people need to do here in any organization.

[Eric Tund]

Clarity.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, a leadership clarity. Like, what's the leadership team supposed to do? What's the, the field team supposed to do? But how, how does their contribution.

[Eric Tund]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

Fit into the general idea and goal of the company this week, this month, this year? That's something that I've taken direct feedback from my team about myself and the way I lead. Right. You know, you do a little360review and folks would say you just don't communicate enough. I don't know if you've been around on the other end of one of those, you're like, fuck, all I do is communicate. You know what I mean? And you're like, but the way I was communicating wasn't effective or what? The communication that they were requesting, what they heard and what I was saying were totally different. And that's a humbling experience, you know, especially for you and I that are like, just eat, sleep and breathe this thing.

[Eric Tund]

But the fact that you're open enough to hear it is like just a real strong attribute of a great leader. I mean, it's really easy to think we've got it figured out.

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Eric Tund]

But that kind of goes back to saying, well, maybe you did, but the company that you're building now is not the same company you're building five months ago. And I, you know, that's the truth. There's too. It's like someone's, someone's dog might have died yesterday. You know, someone's sister might have just got married on the weekend.

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Eric Tund]

They change as a result of their life events as well. Yeah. Maybe their wife just graduated and got her doctorate or something like that. Like that changes. They had a family member move to town, a family member leave. Like, something changes all the time. And it's not the leader's job to keep up with everything because you couldn't possibly. Yeah, but it's. I think it is the leader's job to keep the door open, to be available to hear and experience any of these things, too.

[Podcast Host]

100%, brother. When you talked about. I'll probably wrap it up with this because it looks like the session's about to get out. And I, I know you're gonna get mobbed and shake hands, kiss babies and sign autographs.

[Producer]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

Whatever. Whatever you got going on. And I don't want to be an expensive first date with you, but what I will say I really enjoyed your check in or check on.

[Eric Tund]

Cool.

[Podcast Host]

That was really helpful.

[Eric Tund]

Nice.

[Podcast Host]

Because I feel one of my strengths is checking in with my people. And that's why I feel like I've kept a lot of folks for a longer period of time than maybe the average. And folks are like, how do you just keep good people? I'm like, dude, like, I know what's going on in my people's lives. Like, I know their goals. I, I. Not as well as I probably should like anybody else.

[Eric Tund]

Sure, sure.

[Podcast Host]

But definitely better than the next guy. Yeah. I'll tell you that. Like, if I have done one or two things.

[Eric Tund]

Okay, sure.

[Podcast Host]

It's. I, my guys know where I'm at and they know where I'm at. And we have this open line of communication. But for anybody who missed it, give me the 92nd.

[Eric Tund]

Yeah. Real quick. You know, I think we're really good at checking on people. Yeah. But not really good at checking in on them. Yeah. Let's just be really clear. Like, I check on my pizza in the oven.

[Podcast Host]

Yes. Yes.

[Eric Tund]

I check in with people that I care about. Checking on, to me is very sort of like top down h. Hierarchical. A check on question is, how are things?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

How are things going?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

This is not personal. It's not really connecting. Checking in is a very small switch. It's saying, hey, how are you?

[Podcast Host]

How are you? My favorite One from Mark Bradley is. Are you okay?

[Eric Tund]

Are you okay?

[Podcast Host]

Are you okay?

[Eric Tund]

Yeah. What's on your mind?

[Podcast Host]

What a disarming conversation starter. Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

Yeah. You know, but the fact that you're asking that question, creating space for the response and giving people time to actually share their thoughts there, I think that's, that's the X factor.

[Podcast Host]

That's the whole conversation. And I'll just cap it with this. The. The growth versus fixed mindset that Bradley and so many people here are championing.

[Eric Tund]

Yeah. So funny. The idea of. It's funny to me. Like, I'm a huge believer in growth mindset. But it also is funny to me that there's an alternative. Like the world's moving too fast to be fixed on. Like, I, I would say the biggest problem with a five year goal is the lesson that you choose to ignore three weeks into that five year goal because it wasn't part of the plan

[Podcast Host]

to make a pivot.

[Eric Tund]

But, but the big. The issue is that you're a different person three weeks into that five year goal than you were when you set it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

And so I just think like, planning is invaluable. The plan itself is useless as soon as it hits the page because you just grow so fast.

[Podcast Host]

I've heard, you know, all the great books and leadership books that I'm sure you've read and champion and you probably know half these dang people, they're probably in your Rolodex. But you know, put your, put your goals in concrete, your plans in sand.

[Eric Tund]

100, you know, that kind of stuff.

[Podcast Host]

And don't make your plan so airtight. That guy doesn't have a chance to work in there.

[Eric Tund]

That's right.

[Podcast Host]

You know, I believe in stuff like that. Dude, you're. This is like really good conversation. Like, this is our first introduction. But I'll tell you what, like, dude, I love what you're doing. Like, it's, it's fantastic. Again, great energy with everything that you're doing and sharing. LeansKeeper always brings in the best folks and the best talent. And we'll give a subtle little nod to Benji. You know, we gotta give him a little. I don't know, I hate to do it too. We can always edit it.

[Eric Tund]

You know, we can. Good to know there's something we can fix at the end of this.

[Podcast Host]

Dude, shout out to Benji. Benji's hooked me up with a couple great guests, obviously through some of these events. And dude, it's really, really exciting to just have you on the show.

[Eric Tund]

Thank you for having me, man.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

And shout out to Benji. Love the guy and I really appreciate the opportunity today.

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely. Let's do this really quick. Let's just wrap up. I love to end with the good old work and people find you.

[Eric Tund]

And website erictramoney.com LinkedIn is probably another good spot. Books coming out April of next year.

[Podcast Host]

Do we get a te. What next year? April. Okay.

[Brian Fullerton]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

Working title. I'm not even going to tell you the working title.

[Podcast Host]

You're good.

[Eric Tund]

How do you actually navigate uncertainty? You know, on a personal level?

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Eric Tund]

I think that the five. The ten year plans. What's the point at this point?

[Producer]

Yeah.

[Eric Tund]

I think that we need to. One of my favorite ideas. Two ideas I'm going to share with you real quick. Number one, I think we should stop going after a destination and start going after direction. Because I think the more clear we are on the destination we want to go, the more wrong we're going to be because it just limits any of the other opportunities. Directionally though, I think we're all solid in the same direction.

[Producer]

Solid.

[Podcast Host]

That's good.

[Eric Tund]

Second thing is we often wait for clarity before we take action. And the central idea of the book is that action is the only thing that's going to actually create clarity.

[Podcast Host]

I would agree to that.

[Eric Tund]

Doesn't mean we have to take big moonshots, huge swings, but the smallest action repeated over time. I think the best way to get to step ten is to get to step one ten times.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, dude. One of my favorite. This is a lateral for you. You want a little author's note. You could. There's other. There's not Everybody agrees with this. But here's a marital one. You don't. You don't get in the mood and then go do it. You do it, then you get in the mood, you know, So I don't know if you ever heard that one,

[Eric Tund]

but I wonder if my wife's listening

[Podcast Host]

thing, you know, it's. Anyway, take it or leave it, right, folks? But it's unfiltered here today, so that's fantastic, dude. I'm looking forward to that. We gotta get you back on the show, on the stage somewhere. And when you do the tour, we'll. We'll get the copies and uh, we'll be able to follow along, uh, one more time. Uh, what do you got on LinkedIn and on Instagram and all that mess? What's your. All of it?

[Eric Tund]

Uh, Termundi T E R M U E N D E. It'll be in the show notes. Uh, we'll see you there.

[Podcast Host]

Awesome. All right, brother. Hey, I'll let you get back to doing your thing. Thank you so much for the time. And, uh, guys, give him a follow, give him a like. And, uh, look forward to catching up with all of you guys here on the next one. Thanks for listening.

[Eric Tund]

Right on.

[Brian Fullerton]

This year, launchtrepreneur Academy Live is built for the whole team. Join us November 7th at Vibe Credit Union Showplace in Novi, Michigan for Hands on learning, expanded breakout sessions, and crew leader training designed to help your business grow. Group rates are available so you can bring the entire crew to this can't miss team building event.

[Podcast Host]

Tickets go on sale July 15th.

[Producer]

Thanks for taking the time to listen to the Fullerton Unfiltered Podcast with Bryan Fullerton. We hope you enjoyed this production. If so, please consider leaving us a five star review for the show. While the techniques and ideas presented here are designed to help you grow a more successful and profitable business, no one can guarantee these results for you. We want to emphasize that entrepreneurship is not easy and the ideas presented here are just the opinions of Brian Fullerton and his respective guests. No one can guarantee success for you. That being said, we hope the ideas presented here help you and motivate you to go on out there and crush it with your own business.

[Eric Tund]

Fullerton Unfiltered Podcast thanks for listening and

[Producer]

we hope to see you on the next episode.

[Brian Fullerton]

This has been a Brian Fullerton and Mr. Producer production.