Future of Freedom – Episode Summary

Podcast: Future of Freedom
Host: Scott Bertram
Episode: Chris Edwards & Jerry Theodorou: Should FEMA Be Eliminated?
Date: September 24, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the provocative question: Should FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) be abolished? Host Scott Bertram welcomes two guests with contrasting perspectives: Chris Edwards (Cato Institute) argues in favor of eliminating FEMA, while Jerry Theodorou (R Street Institute) defends its continued reform and necessity. The conversation delves into FEMA’s effectiveness, state versus federal responsibilities, bureaucratic pitfalls, and paths for disaster response in the U.S., all within a civil and insightful exchange.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chris Edwards: The Case For Eliminating FEMA

[00:49–15:20]

a) FEMA’s Redundancy & Federal Overreach

• Edwards asserts that America should employ a decentralized, bottom-up approach to natural disasters—led by “state and local governments and the private sector.”

  “America is supposed to have a decentralized approach, a bottom up approach to responding to natural disasters... The federal government has increasingly encroached on this properly state and local activity over the decades with detrimental results.” (01:12–01:49)

• He uses Hurricane Katrina (2005) as emblematic of federal mismanagement:

  “The federal government probably caused more problems than solved back with Hurricane Katrina.” (01:39)

b) Perverse Incentives and Bureaucratic Inefficiency

• FEMA funding disincentivizes local preparedness; states rely on bailouts rather than prevention.

  “Federal involvement creates a disincentive for states to prepare… because they think the federal government’s always gonna come in and bail them out. And also federal involvement always creates a lot of excess regulations, bureaucracy, waste and fraud.” (03:08–03:39)

• Edwards claims FEMA’s structure inhibits speedy, effective relief:

  “Federal involvement just adds a lot of bureaucracy and regulation and often slows down disaster response.” (04:05)

c) State Mutual Aid & Private Philanthropy as Alternatives

• States and utilities already have mutual aid agreements that function efficiently without FEMA.

  “State governments and electric utilities, telecom utilities, they already have mutual sharing agreements to help each other respond to natural disasters...” (06:08)

• The private sector and nonprofits often step up rapidly, demonstrating robust citizen solidarity:

  “America has the most generous people I think about than any country at any time. It’s really remarkable the outpouring of private charitable efforts after disasters.” (08:14)

• Historical precedent: 1906 San Francisco earthquake response was a vast private-sector effort.

d) Federal Role—Limited but Essential

• Acknowledges unique federal roles for specialized assets (Coast Guard, Air Force), not day-to-day disaster function.
• Non-essential FEMA functions like “flood mapping” should be redistributed; advocates federal excellence by scaling down scope.

  “I think if we peel away a lot of these things the federal government tries to do... then we can focus more on making the remaining federal roles excellent.” (12:24)

e) Predicted Effects of Abolishing FEMA

• Suggests disaster response would be faster, more efficient, and less wasteful without FEMA.

  “I think the responses to disasters would be a lot faster and more efficient and there’d be a lot less waste.” (13:33)

• Points to onerous federal rules hindering volunteers during Katrina (e.g., not accepting unlisted doctors).

2. Jerry Theodorou: The Case Against Eliminating FEMA

[15:21–32:53]

a) FEMA’s Evolution & Scope

• FEMA has matured since 1979, learning to handle increasingly complex disasters:

  “It has come a long way. Disaster relief, disaster management is a highly complex activity...” (16:03)

• Points to frequent, severe catastrophes (recent Texas, hurricanes Helene and Milton) demanding large-scale coordination.

b) The Federal “Backstop”

• Disaster management is fundamentally state managed, locally executed, federally supported:

  “Disaster management is state managed, locally executed and federally supported.” (18:42)

• The federal government acts as the backstop, providing scale and resources states and nonprofits cannot.

  “The activities that are performed are really gargantuan. ...In the private sector, you don’t have any one or two charitable, philanthropic organizations that have this sort of capacity.” (20:02)

c) Reform Over Elimination

• Explains current political ambivalence between eliminating and reforming FEMA:

  “On one hand we heard that this is an agency that needs to be eliminated. Other times the administration is saying ...this is an organization that needs to be reformed. So which is it?” (20:35)

• FEMA reform committee is “leaning in the direction of reform rather than elimination”, with focus on trimming bloat and bureaucracy.

d) Importance of Coordination and Accountability

• Privates and nonprofits are vital, but coordination is key to avoid “a messy situation” (23:47).
• Concerns about FEMA’s interference with private rescuers are largely unsubstantiated, but notes ongoing transparency challenges.
• Emphasizes that disaster response should not be politicized:

  “We’re talking about saving lives... So it’s nothing, not something that should be politicized.” (25:43)

e) Problems & Leadership Failures

• Leadership must have “at least five years of disaster management experience”—not always honored.
• Cites low morale and retaliation for criticism as counterproductive:

  “So that creates a climate of fear and watching your back, which does not do anything for productivity. Quite the contrary.” (29:26)

f) Federal Role in Large-Scale Infrastructure

• Large projects (like Dutch Delta Works or Louisiana levees) can only be managed with federal support:

  “The states can’t handle mega infrastructural repair projects... So we need to have additional support beyond what the states can offer for some of the long term projects...” (31:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On State vs. Federal Roles:
  Edwards: “State and local governments and the private sector can handle natural disasters.” (01:22)
• On Incentives:
  Edwards: “Federal involvement creates a disincentive for states to prepare…” (03:08)
• On Private Generosity:
  Edwards: “America has the most generous people… the outpouring of private charitable efforts after disasters.” (08:14)
• On Reform vs. Abolition:
  Theodorou: “The direction is really on reform rather than gutting and eliminating and abolishing.” (21:52)
• On FEMA’s Scale:
  Theodorou: “In the private sector, you don’t have any one or two charitable, philanthropic organizations that have this sort of capacity.” (20:15)
• On Politicization:
  Theodorou: “This is not something for political differences… we should have discussions about mitigation, about preventing the magnitude of losses…” (25:43–26:18)
• On Leadership and Accountability:
  Theodorou (with humor): “Scott, can you say shibboleth?... you live.” (28:44–28:47)
• On Infrastructure:
  Theodorou: “The states can’t handle mega infrastructural repair projects like in Netherlands in the 1950s… So we need to have additional support beyond what the states can offer…” (31:16)

Segment Timestamps

• [00:49–15:20] Chris Edwards explains arguments for abolishing FEMA, citing inefficiency and the strength of decentralized, private, and interstate responses.
• [15:21–32:53] Jerry Theodorou discusses FEMA’s evolution, its irreplaceable role as federal backstop, defense of reform over elimination, and perspective on agency accountability and large-scale infrastructure.

Conclusion

This episode gives listeners a deep, nuanced look at America’s disaster preparedness structure. Edwards spotlights the unintended consequences of federal overreach and highlights local and private capacities, while Theodorou finds value in FEMA’s unique abilities and argues that reform—ensuring transparency, competence, and coordination—is preferable to abolition. Both guests provide practical insights and ground their views in historical precedent and recent experience, offering a well-rounded foundation for anyone interested in the future of FEMA and disaster response policy in the US.