Podcast Summary: Future of Freedom Episode: Tobias Peter & Judge Glock: How Should Zoning Be Viewed & Reformed? Host: Scot Bertram | Release Date: June 16, 2025

Introduction In the latest episode of Future of Freedom, host Scot Bertram delves into the contentious topic of zoning and housing with two distinguished guests: Tobias Peter, Senior Fellow and Co-Director of the American Enterprise Institute's Housing Center, and Judge Glock, Director of Research and Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. The discussion juxtaposes Peter’s critique of current zoning laws with Glock’s defense of zoning from a free-market perspective, offering listeners a comprehensive exploration of how zoning policies shape housing markets and community dynamics.

Segment 1: Tobias Peter on Zoning and Housing Scarcity

Timestamp: [00:55] – [15:20]

Zoning as a Barrier to Housing Supply

Tobias Peter opens the conversation by drawing an analogy between the childhood game of musical chairs and the current American housing market. At [01:12], he states:

"In the American housing policy we have a similar approach where we're just not allowing enough chairs to be built... And I think that's inherently unfair."

Peter argues that restrictive zoning and land use laws have created artificial scarcity in the housing market, leading to escalating prices and widespread displacement. He emphasizes that the issue is a policy failure, not a market failure, asserting that the market has the capacity to provide sufficient housing if it's freed from excessive regulations.

Houston: A Model of Successful Zoning Reform

Peter highlights Houston as a success story, noting that since implementing zoning reforms in 2000, the city has expanded its housing stock by 30%. He explains:

"Houston has added 30% to its housing stock. And it is actually amongst the large American cities. Affordable place because you can actually build new starter homes at relatively moderate price points of about $350,000 that are achievable for the average blue collar worker still." [02:04]

The Concept of Filtering

Addressing the concept of filtering—the process by which new housing developments eventually make older housing units affordable to lower-income individuals—Peter illustrates its potential impact:

"By building starter homes at kind of moderate price point is in Houston... then you can actually unleash the filtering process." [04:39]

He acknowledges that resolving the housing shortage won't happen overnight but posits that with the right policies, significant progress can be made within a decade.

Critique of Los Angeles’ Zoning Policies

Peter contrasts Houston's success with the challenges faced by Los Angeles. He criticizes LA's preference for single-family homes and the resultant lack of affordable housing:

"They have been building very few housing units... selling at about a million five and well above the median of $875,000." [06:39]

This restrictive zoning has priced out many residents, forcing them to relocate to more affordable regions or face homelessness—a situation he deems unsustainable and unjust.

Housing Abundance Success Sequence

Peter outlines a strategic framework for addressing housing shortages, dubbed the Housing Abundance Success Sequence:

1. Allow Moderately Greater Density: Roll back restrictive zoning rules to permit higher-density housing.
2. Make It Buy Right: Remove discretionary powers that enable NIMBYism and bureaucratic delays.
3. Keep Land Use Rules Simple: Apply the KISS principle to streamline permitting and reduce construction costs.

"If you've done these three things, all of these, what we found in all of these instances is that we've seen armies of small scale builder coming out of the woodwork and starting to build housing units that otherwise they would not have." [13:38]

Peter emphasizes that these measures can unleash the market's potential to build diverse and affordable housing, as evidenced by multiple case studies.

Conclusion of Tobias Peter’s Segment

Peter concludes by asserting that the primary solution to the housing crisis is to build more homes swiftly by alleviating government regulatory constraints:

"It is, but I think the government, I would add that the government needs to get out of the way. This is a government regulatory failure." [15:20]

Segment 2: Judge Glock on Defending Zoning from a Free-Market Perspective

Timestamp: [16:19] – [32:28]

Zoning as a Tool for Local Governance

Judge Glock begins by addressing common free-market criticisms of zoning, advocating for a nuanced view:

"People with free market beliefs should be concerned about zoning and excessive zoning, but they should not necessarily look to abolish it everywhere and anywhere because it does serve some purposes." [16:36]

He underscores that zoning allows communities to self-regulate and maintain certain standards, aligning with consumer demand for orderly and well-maintained neighborhoods.

The Thiebaud Model Explained

Expanding on governance models, Glock introduces the Thiebaud Model, articulating how decentralized local governance can effectively manage public goods:

"Charles Thiebaud... described this kind of choice of governance model... he said, we don't have a market mechanism to allocate public goods such as police, roads and parks... allow people to effectively select into the sort of governance model they like." [19:27]

This model supports the idea that diverse local governments can cater to varying preferences, enhancing overall efficiency and satisfaction.

Zoning’s Impact on Property Rights and Affordability

Glock challenges Peter's assertion by suggesting that zoning, when correctly implemented, can enhance property values and, indirectly, housing affordability:

"The goal should actually be to maximize the value of housing... by improving the condition of the neighborhood, that's a good thing, not a bad thing." [29:16]

He argues that proper zoning ensures high-quality developments that contribute to the community, rather than simply restricting supply.

Balancing Local and State Control

While acknowledging the benefits of local zoning, Glock also recognizes its shortcomings, such as the potential for majority groups to marginalize minorities. He advocates for state-level oversight to ensure zoning serves its intended purposes without abuse:

"You need courts and other kind of rules to limit that sort of expropriation at the local level." [23:40]

Zoning and Greenfield Development

Addressing California’s housing issues, Glock points out that restrictions on greenfield growth—development on previously undeveloped land—compound affordability problems:

"About 80% of new housing development was in these greenfield areas... environmentalists have closed off an immense amount of space for development in the Bay Area." [25:22]

He emphasizes the importance of leveraging greenfield areas to alleviate housing shortages.

Homeowners Associations as Market Mechanisms

Glock defends homeowners associations (HOAs) as market-driven entities that reflect residents' desires for neighborhood control:

"There's a strong demand for them, which seems to be that kind of development is meeting a clear consumer demand." [16:20]

He contrasts HOAs with municipal zoning, suggesting that market-driven regulations can be more responsive and efficient.

Conclusion of Judge Glock’s Segment

Judge Glock concludes by reiterating the importance of maintaining a balance between local autonomy and state oversight to ensure zoning policies promote both community values and housing affordability:

"We should allow people to choose the sort of governance they want to live in... allow for some areas to not be zoned." [24:58]

Final Thoughts

The episode of Future of Freedom presents a robust debate on the role of zoning in addressing housing challenges. Tobias Peter urges for deregulation to unleash market solutions and increase housing supply, highlighting successful examples like Houston. Conversely, Judge Glock defends zoning as a necessary tool for local governance and community control, advocating for balanced oversight to prevent abuses. Together, the discussions encapsulate the complexities of zoning reforms and their far-reaching implications for freedom, property rights, and social equity.

Listeners gain valuable insights into how zoning policies can either exacerbate or alleviate housing shortages and affordability issues, depending on their design and implementation. The contrasting perspectives of Peter and Glock underscore the need for nuanced approaches that consider both market dynamics and community preferences.

Notable Quotes:

• Tobias Peter at [01:12]: "In the American housing policy we have a similar approach where we're just not allowing enough chairs to be built... And I think that's inherently unfair."

• Tobias Peter at [04:39]: "By building starter homes at kind of moderate price point is in Houston... then you can actually unleash the filtering process."

• Judge Glock at [16:36]: "People with free market beliefs should be concerned about zoning and excessive zoning, but they should not necessarily look to abolish it everywhere and anywhere because it does serve some purposes."

• Judge Glock at [19:27]: "Charles Thiebaud... described this kind of choice of governance model... allow people to effectively select into the sort of governance model they like."

About the Guests:

• Tobias Peter: Senior Fellow and Co-Director of the American Enterprise Institute's Housing Center. Author of the essay "Displacement by Design."

• Judge Glock: Director of Research and Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Author of the essay "Two Cheers for Zoning."

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