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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Galaxy Brains.
- [00:02]
B
An infinite amount of cash. Cash.
- [00:04]
A
I'm your host, Alex Thorne. The U.S. banking system is sound and resilient. Bitcoin meeting new all time high.
- [00:11]
C
If you're not long.
- [00:12]
A
If you're not long, you're short.
- [00:14]
B
Satoshi is going to come on there, laugh hysterically, go quiet.
- [00:18]
C
All bitcoin's gonna be erased. Bitcoin.
- [00:20]
A
Bitcoin's the best crypto. Bitcoin is going to zero. Welcome back to Galaxy Brains. As always, I'm your host Alex Thorne, head of firmwide research at Galaxy Bitcoin. Not zero. We have a great episode for you this week. Becca Rubenfeld, co founder and COO of Anchor Watch, a bitcoin security company and insurance company, is our guest. This is a great interview with Becca. We've had her co founder Rob Hamilton on the show twice. Anchor Watch, known for secure self custody and ensuring self custody, but building some other interesting things too. Very powerful bitcoin technology company and I have to say we're going to talk with Becca, who has breast cancer, in detail about her fight with cancer. She's been very public writing about her diagnosis and her treatments and sharing publicly her experience. It was incredibly and has been incredibly inspiring for me to follow Becca's story and I wanted to share her story with you. It's a beautiful, emotional, inspirational discussion. After we talk with Anchor Watch. At the end of that interview, a lot of people don't talk about this. People are very afraid of this. I think Becca's done an enormous service in explaining and demystifying some of the fear and the thoughts of having cancer and going through these treatments. Everyone in this audience knows someone, family or friend who's had cancer or they've had it themselves or unfortunately the statistics say, or they will have it themselves. And I think this is very important. I'm very proud of this conversation that I kept it together during it. Of course, we'll also check with our good friend Bibnadobibi from Galaxy Trading. As always, talk about the straight of Hormuz bitcoin price action. Looking pretty nice right now and what we expect in the near and medium term. Before we get to all of that, I need to remind you to please refer to the link to disclaimer in the podcast notes and note that none of the information in this podcast constitutes investment advice or an offer, recommendation or solicitation by Galaxy or any of its affiliates to buy or sell any securities. It really is a great interview with Becca. If you only want to listen to the bitcoin Stuff that's the first half of the interview, but I really recommend it. It was powerful and important to me to talk with Becca about this and we shot it at Pub Key dc. So shout out to our friends at Pub great place on 7th street in, in Washington D.C. the new pub Key there. If you haven't had a chance to go but you can, I suggest you do it before we get to Becca. Let's hop right into it with Bimat Ab. Let's go now to our friend Bimnet AB from Galaxy Trading. As always, Bimat, welcome back to Galaxy Brains.
- [02:46]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [02:47]
A
It's a interesting market right now because, you know, with the Iran and Middle east stuff, we're in a positive intermission or of such. The markets have been ripping, I think S and P hit new all time highs. Right. So people came in and bought the what, SaaS dip. And also bitcoin has rallied as well. I don't know. Yeah. How would you describe where we are in the current zeitgeist of markets?
- [03:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think you're in a pocket of sort of what I would describe as a classic buy the rumor, sell the news type of setup where there's an underlying optimism in the market around a ceasefire extension, slash, more permanent deal. And I think that's merited because there are bilateral talks happening. Vance is supposed to eventually go back to Pakistan.
- [03:46]
A
Saw some stutter, step on whether he was flying today or tomorrow or whatever, but seems like he'll go back.
- [03:51]
B
Seems like he'll go back. And what I don't think is fully appreciated by the market is there's constant talking going on and the Iranians have to posture a certain way for their domestic base and so does the US and so a lot of that gets lost in some of the news headlines. But underlying all of the crazy headlines, there's still negotiations happening. There is a path forward to a permanent ceasefire.
- [04:22]
A
Aren't currently like drones hitting like, you know, GCC oil places at the moment?
- [04:27]
B
Like there were the moment, but there were three ships that were attacked by
- [04:31]
A
Iranian speedboats and I saw that the US interdicted an Iranian ship as well. So there's some, there's tensions, but it's not like a lot of missiles flying at the moment. Which is, you know, an improvement from a couple of weeks ago.
- [04:43]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the blockade is actually applying a lot of pressure on the Iranians because again, the math of when their storage fills up, of shutting off the rigs and kind of the permanent damage that could get Done. So this blockade is actually applying genuine pressure. And so I do think that between the political pressure that Donald has and between the economic and military pressure the Iranians had have, I think more likely than not, you do get a deal
- [05:16]
A
squeezing the parties towards a deal in review.
- [05:19]
B
But the issue is just how much of that optimism is already baked into the market. With the S and P at all time highs and with crude having retraced, with credit spreads having retraced and the dollar selling off again, the question is how much of this optimism is already baked into the market. And I think it's pretty significant. And so while I do think that the immediate reaction to a permanent ceasefire deadline being announced is a move higher in risk broadly and Bitcoin, every other kind of risk related instrument should benefit, the magnitude of that benefit, I think is a little bit more limited than what the market thinks. Because then you start thinking about, okay, how do we deal with the largest supply disruption since COVID Right.
- [06:11]
A
You were talking about backlog and like. Right.
- [06:15]
B
So many things.
- [06:16]
A
I just saw that Delta is canceling some domestic U.S. routes. Yeah.
- [06:20]
B
Lufthansa is 20,000 flights.
- [06:23]
A
I think they said their costs were on jet fuel. Just Delta in the U.S. yeah. Like went up by $2 billion. So they're pulling back. And we're in the best spot of the world for jet fuel because we have so much of domestic production. Yeah. Asia, Europe.
- [06:37]
B
But again, that's another kind of misconception about energy markets and refineries. The refineries that we have in the US are suited for heavy crude from the Middle east versus the crude that comes from shale production is not suited for a lot of the refineries that we have in the US and so it's not only about oil flowing from the Strait of Hormuz and domestic production. It's about the oil getting to the right places. Right. And I think like, there's a lot of like, you know, myself included, I'm a commodity tourist. But in terms of when you talk to the real experts in this stuff, you know, they think that, you know, prices have to get to kind of like demand destruction levels.
- [07:25]
A
So they will. You think they go back higher?
- [07:27]
B
They do.
- [07:27]
A
And so you're retracement down to where we got to like 80s and oil down from what, 24? Yeah. In your mind too. That was. That's optimism baked in. Yeah. And you think it ultimately goes higher.
- [07:38]
B
Yeah. And so in terms of like, you know, things I would pay attention to, I think there's going to be a pretty Clean, long setup in oil on a, on a ceasefire announcement where you get a lot of the leverage, you know, from the long side, you know, wiped out and a lot of optimism baked in. That's kind of like a good healthy place.
- [07:56]
A
And the second order effects start to happen. The market actually starts pricing it a bit more fundamentally.
- [08:01]
B
And then, and then it's like, okay, then you're actually hedged for like a left tail scenario as well of like tensions, like reigniting potentially. And you know what I think will happen? There's going to be similar types of setup everywhere. But like fixed income is another one where I think broadly speaking, a lot of fixed income will rally a ton on permanent ceasefire extension. But in theory, if the commodity pressure is still going to be there because we haven't properly dealt with the supply deficits, then there should be some upward pressure on yields to move higher. I think a lot of this market, you know, can be summed up as a ton of optimism baked in.
- [08:46]
A
Yeah.
- [08:46]
B
And there's room for additional optimism to get baked in, but not that much more.
- [08:50]
A
Yeah. And then medium term, some correct, some tempering, even retracing.
- [08:56]
B
Yeah. And so, you know, what I see happening higher is, you know, risk broadly climbing this wall of worry, like these headlines that take you down, like that's just fuel to take you back higher in the interim. But I kind of see us just chopping higher. I think Bitcoin, it's basically almost at 80k at this point. You're $700 away or $660 away, but effectively it's trading really well. You've had strong inflows in the etf. Saylor's premium has been expanding.
- [09:29]
A
I believe that he now holds more Bitcoin than I bet.
- [09:33]
B
Oh, that's amazing.
- [09:34]
A
It's crazy.
- [09:36]
B
But in theory those are like supportive flows and you've got this pocket where there's like positive reflexivity to bitcoin where bitcoin prices go higher, the navs and we kind of expand and you can issue more equity debt, whatever to buy.
- [09:49]
A
And I think we've, it's starting to feel like, and we gotta save this because we have to wrap in a second. So maybe we'll save this for next week to really dive more into the 200 week moving average thesis and your broader longer term bear market to bull market thesis right now. Maybe, you know, because the price is at 80k, it feels to me like the 60k dip from early February may have ended up being the bottom. Of course it may not be, but it has now in March, been six months since October 10th and since our prior all time high, that's a decently long enough time for people to have taken off. We went down about 52% from all time high.
- [10:31]
B
Yeah.
- [10:32]
A
Some leverage and other, you know, wipeouts or whatever have now had time to occur. It kind of starts to feel like pretty sturdy. That could, you know, we could go down another 10%. We're back at 70 and then, you know, who know, you know. But does it feel like that to you or is this still sort of noise inside of the 60, what had been a 60 to 70 range, 1675, we're stretching the top of a range. Is it still range bound in that area like. Or what would it need to take a another way of asking what would you have to see to be like, you know what, maybe we are in the uptrend again. What price do you look at, I think where your sentiment sort of changes
- [11:08]
B
like above 88k I would be like, okay, we are probably heading back to the all time highs. The four year cycle story is probably dead.
- [11:20]
A
Or it has played out.
- [11:21]
B
Played out. But that isn't my base case. My base case is a repeat of the bitcoin cycle moves which typically insinuates a 70 to 75% correction from the highs. A bottom that's around 365 days from
- [11:40]
A
the prior high and around the 200 week moving average which is still at 59.5k.
- [11:44]
B
Correct. I think this move higher will ultimately stall and you know, at that point in time I think it'll be prudent to put on some, some very, some cheap protection.
- [11:58]
A
Yeah.
- [12:00]
B
And so I would just be more cautious up there. Near term I'm still constructive on the market. As long as you still have this overhang of like you know, a deal getting formalized sooner rather than later. And as long as that deal is likely to happen, I think that should be good for risk. But again, you're at the points now where you've seen a lot of lower quality stuff kind of rally in this market. Right.
- [12:28]
A
It's that normal thing, the quality rallies. Then people say, oh, the rally's continuing, these other names haven't rallied and they buy those names. And that's usually a sign that you're like later in the rally.
- [12:36]
B
Correct.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah.
- [12:37]
B
And so I think you're in kind of the later stages of this equity rally now. That's not like insanely high conviction, but the fact that you are seeing the lower quality stuff perform very well.
- [12:53]
A
Yeah.
- [12:53]
B
Is indicative of like where you are in the process.
- [12:56]
A
I mean, to your. I think so much of the market is being driven by sort of exogenous factors. Right. Equities aren't rallying necessarily at the moment on the idea that earning season is going to be great. They're rallying on, oh, a war may be averted. And same thing with a risk aversion like so they're similarly like to the extent that exogenous factors continue to drive like that could also work in the continued positive way. It could get stretched and then somehow a lot more good news could occur. And now we're just back quote unquote or you know, now the. You put the, in the case of bitcoin, the sort of bitcoin bear market in the rearview mirror also a possibility, like you said. Yeah. Not your base case, but not my base case.
- [13:32]
B
But again, that's like, you know, I think there'll be very cheap ways to play that because at a certain point like the gravity takes and takes effect. And what I mean by that is, you know, when an asset is worth $1.5 trillion, it takes more money to send it up another 10% versus like if it's worth, you know, $500 billion, like a smaller amount of buy pressure is needed to take it up 10%. Right, right. And so when you get up there, you'll, you'll probably see a lot of like overriding and selling. So I think you'll be in an environment, you know, let's say when you're north of 80 in a meaningful way where it's like spot up volume down because you have a lot of like overriding flow and that'll leave like a dealer's kind of very long top side and will prevent you from really.
- [14:22]
A
Because they'll have to hedge that.
- [14:27]
B
It's an interesting setup and risk. But I think the story in the back half of this year is going to be dominated by software. It's going to be dominated by inflation. I think those two themes are probably less constructive for markets because I do break even. Inflation expectations in the US have come off a lot because you've gotten okay, inflation data. But taking a step back, what is that? Okay, inflation data. Wait, headline CPI increased by 0.9% in a month. That's not, that's not small.
- [15:11]
A
That's not small.
- [15:13]
B
And that's only in the immediate aftermath.
- [15:16]
A
Right.
- [15:17]
B
That's not like the incorporating like the extended circum like.
- [15:20]
A
Yeah. And so we have to stop. But next week let's talk about more in depth on the thesis on bitcoin and.
- [15:27]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [15:27]
A
And also Kevin Warsh who testified before Congress this week as part of his nomination to be the Federal Reserve Chair. He said some interesting things signaling that broadly the way the Fed has been doing things has been wrong and he wants to revert back to a. An earlier Fed view. It's. I don't know, less interventionist maybe. It's not clear. I'm not clear. I'm going to ask you about that next week, but for now, based Bitcoin, BimNet, ABB, thank you so much.
- [15:54]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [15:55]
A
Becca Rubenfeld, co founder of Anchor Watch and chief operating officer of AnchorWatch. Thank you for coming on Galaxy Brands.
- [16:02]
C
Thanks for having me.
- [16:03]
A
We're here in DC at pubkey dc.
- [16:06]
C
Dc.
- [16:06]
A
Shout out to the team here, Dan and Greg and the others at PubKey for supporting.
- [16:10]
C
Thanks for hosting us.
- [16:11]
A
Hosting us.
- [16:12]
C
Beautiful space.
- [16:13]
A
Beautiful space. If you haven't been, you should go. We were just. I was just complaining. Of course. I love New York Pub Key, it's the best. But this space is magnificent. A lot bigger.
- [16:24]
C
Absolutely. Well, it's my experience, this is my first time here, so I've only been here during the day yet, so I haven't seen it during its, during its moments of glory. But in New York it's awesome because anytime in New York I can go by and I will see a friendly face.
- [16:38]
A
You might see clients or friends. I mean the same. It is a.
- [16:41]
C
Colleagues, you know, I will see somebody I know.
- [16:43]
A
Yes, you will. It's a rally, rallying point for the global bitcoin community and DC is important. I was big advocate when the Pub Key diaspora was debating where they should open a second one. And I Love, I think D.C. is an important international rallying point and obviously with, well, even the last administration, but this one too. Bitcoin and crypto policy is an active discussion here.
- [17:10]
C
You've been super active yourself in it. But yeah, I mean it's super important and I think we've made a lot of progress over the last.
- [17:17]
A
We really have. And we just gotta lock it, we gotta lock it in, you know, codify it. Can't get no rollback.
- [17:24]
C
That's true.
- [17:25]
A
Elizabeth Warren presidency or something.
- [17:26]
C
It's a risk. It's a risk a couple of years out.
- [17:29]
A
So let's talk about Anchor Watch. Your co founder Rob Hamilton is also a friend of mine, as are you and he's been on the show and now I think it's probably about a year or two ago though. And so in startup land, that's like a decade.
- [17:44]
C
A lot has happened.
- [17:45]
A
I'm sure a lot has changed. But I guess maybe just as a high level, either if my audience doesn't remember that interview or doesn't have time to go back through two years of my archives. What is Anchor Watch building? What is AnchorWatch?
- [17:59]
C
So Anchor Watch has kind of two areas of expertise. One, we're an insurance provider. We're a Lloyds of London cover holder. There are only two Lloyds of London cover holders in the world authorized to write policies on crypto. One of them is ourselves. And we are the only one who's authorized to sell to both commercial retail customers. So that gives us all sorts of ability in unique and novel forms of insurance. Both products that we've already brought to market as well as the ability to do custom insurance. And then we have a best in class custody platform that's hands down the safest way to hold Bitcoin. Currently in cold storage with different capabilities to come, but we use advanced technology called miniscript to do kind of unique things that aren't found on other platforms.
- [18:46]
A
Yeah, miniscript, and you definitely know better than I, and I am not an expert expert in this part of Bitcoin, but it is an abstracted language basically that lets you utilize existing Bitcoin script language, but like in ways that it's really almost impossible to actually use the base language for, or too difficult. Right. Is that sort of.
- [19:06]
C
So Bitcoin script itself, if you looked at it, would just be a long string of letters and numbers, nothing that you could understand or conceptualize what's happening by looking at it as a human. So miniscript has abstracted that into human verifiable segments. And the easiest way to describe it is that it enables a few main things. We use two of them. One of them is time locks. So it adds a check on how much time has passed since either a transaction happened or since a wallet was created. And the other thing it allows you to do is group keys. So instead of just having maybe a multisig address where it's 2 of 3, we could have, for example, multiple 2 of threes. So maybe your company has their own 2 of 3 and Anchor Watts holds a 2 of 3. They both must be satisfied individually. But that way we can bring things like governance and compliance and put it on chain.
- [20:06]
A
Yeah, so we could have a two or three and you could have a two or three and then together those could form a two of two. Exactly where we both have to agree.
- [20:12]
C
Exactly. So it's effectively a two of Two, but you know, they can be separated by organization. And then the time locks come into place when you're like, okay, but if it's a two of two, what if something does go wrong because both are required? Well, in that case, we bring in a new spending condition with a time lock that says, okay, if X amount of time has passed and this terrible thing has, has befallen one of the parties or one of the parties, then after a certain amount of time we have a second way to spend Bitcoin.
- [20:43]
A
So it decays into like a normal or a one of one or one.
- [20:46]
C
So that's the most common way to talk about it is a decaying multis. It starts as a two of three and then over time a one of three. But it's much more composable than that. So you could do it as kind of a decaying or it gets gradually less secure. But you could also do it as something totally different. So let's say your first spending layer was the executives in your company. So it was a two of three. But you want a backup plan in case something has gone wrong. So instead of a decaying where it's a one of three, maybe you have a time lock spending condition that is actually a three of five that includes members of the board and maybe your law firm and maybe your accounting firm. And why does it get more secure? Because we're saying, hey, this is actually an emergency situation, something has gone terribly wrong. That means we even need to use the second spending condition. So we're actually going to make it more secure. We're going to introduce keys that weren't even in the first layer. So it's super composable. And so the platform that we built, in my opinion, is amazing because it means that we can meet customers where they are, so we can come in. And for a commercial client or an enterprise client, or working with a bank, right now we can actually modify the vault configuration to meet their business needs, to meet the needs of their customers. You can use our platform as infrastructure, which you weren't able to do last year. We've opened that up and APIs. So lots of composability and miniscript is what really makes that possible.
- [22:20]
A
It's very cool. And these types of highly secure, let's just say multisig custody setups are common. But I think most of the difference that I see is that beyond using a simple, Bitcoin has multisig as a native feature. So beyond simple, whereas I just point that out, Ethereum does not. Right. You have to use smart contracts to create those, you know, like people use Gnosis safe on Ethereum and other things like that. But most are just maybe a two or three or three or five multisig and that's it. It sits in cold storage. What's so cool about. If you wanted those other features you're talking about, usually people are abstracting those into the application layer. Right. So they create business logic that results in what you're talking about. What you guys are able to do is do it natively with Bitcoin. So like you're customizable, composable vault that you make for an enterprise client. It's actually secured the design on Bitcoin in those transactions. Right, like foundational transactions.
- [23:19]
C
Yeah. And that's why I say it's excellent for creating governance and compliance on chain because you can create a vault that matches your legal infrastructure, your legal compliance, or the people and the roles that they have. You can distribute keys. Similarly, Rob has described he's gone through kind of the thought exercise of thinking about the strategic Bitcoin reserve and how you could distribute keys across the different branches of government or the Treasury.
- [23:51]
A
And I know you could have the treasurer has a key and the master of arms of the house or something,
- [23:59]
C
and you could utilize time lock to be maybe across terms. Right. So you could get away from either. Linda? Yeah, so there's a lot of things that composable on chain flexibility could do for us.
- [24:15]
A
It's a fascinating product and technology that you guys have developed. And I know Rob had been, we joked that he was the miniscript influencer. That was like two years ago at this point. And miniscript, I think Andrew Polstra created at Blockstream, Peter Willow. And Peter Willow. Yeah.
- [24:29]
C
And sunk it, I believe, but.
- [24:31]
A
And they spent a long time building it. And I remember I saw, I think I saw Andrew give a talk at the Bitcoin meetup in Boston like five plus years ago, seven years ago, about miniscript. And I remember being like, what is this thing? I'm not quite understanding it. And as far as I can tell, there's a couple. I know, like, I think Liana, those guys use miniscript too, but basically you guys are the main people using it. I know I don't hear about a lot of other people using this very powerful thing.
- [25:00]
C
Well, there are reasons for that and I think that will change. It's already changing pretty rapidly and I think it'll continue to. But after it was developed by the Blockstream team, for the most part it was shelved. I think at the time there were questions about complexity. Is complexity the enemy of safety? And I think that's always a fair thing to look at. But the other thing, and by the way the answer to that is miniscript is actually very, very simple. So you can describe. Well, you could have a two of three and then a one of two and then time locks and all this and you can start if you're new to it. It can sound very complicated but really it's just stringing if then statements. And so once you actually take a look, it's truly simple. So that concern I would say was overcome pretty quickly. The other thing though is there was no hardware wallet support for ManyScript. So the magical thing about when Rob came across it and discovered it is when he discovered was I think within a month of when Ledger had added miniscript support. So he happened to come across it and be like. And he had been trying to develop customized scripts to be ideal for insurance and came across miniscript and was like, wow, this creates a lot of the security that I was going to try to do in a bespoke manner. And wow. And here's hardware wallet. Yeah. And so actually Rob put a lot of efforts into reaching out to the other hardware wallet companies. Win many script and I think currently it's in five.
- [26:44]
A
Well, yeah, I know cold card I
- [26:45]
C
think now Cold card. We just introduced cold card so when we launched it didn't have many script support. Now it does. So customers can choose their wallets. Customers with us we had customer 2 of 3 and then anchor Watch has our own key set that's still available. Customers can now choose a single sig and if that seems crazy because it's a single sig again, remember there's time locks.
- [27:12]
A
Yes. So the additional and there's overall a 2 of 2 with you as well.
- [27:17]
C
So we're still there. The customer.
- [27:19]
A
Oh, and you're saying if you lose the single sig that it can still decay back to the.
- [27:22]
C
To the recovery options. Right. And then we've just introduced in the last couple of weeks multi institutional custody. So a lot of people frankly are not interested or ready to hold keys. They're very concerned about wrench attack risks. A lot of companies, their legal team has just said that like we're not comfortable with the executives or internal people holding keys. So multi institutional is important. It's using our infrastructure and we partner with Bitgo and coincorner as the institutional key holders.
- [27:55]
A
Yeah. Out to the institutional custodians for the key material itself if they want.
- [27:59]
C
And then you can get insurance on all of them. Insurance is now optional.
- [28:04]
A
Right. So you're selling this and building it as wallet infrastructure in addition to the insurance use case.
- [28:10]
C
Yeah. When we launched we actually didn't have permission to decouple them. So our agreement with Lloyds of London was that to offer insured custody it had to all be insured custody. This year we were able to decouple them. What that means is on the custody side, we can now support global customers, which is great because we've had a lot of companies, a lot of individuals from around the world who very much want the security that we can offer, maybe even more so because of where they live and they like, you know, two party signing. So we can now serve global customers and as I mentioned, we can also offer our entire platform as infrastructure.
- [28:52]
A
So other customers like other companies, other bitcoin companies even.
- [28:56]
C
Yeah. So we're supporting, we're about to launch with a company who's currently an exchange and they're going to be offering insured custody to their clients using Anchor Watch's infrastructure. We are in the middle of integrating with a large regulated bank who is going to be doing the same thing. So it's great to see volume come to the platform. Trusted institutions see us for the security and the insurance that we can offer.
- [29:27]
A
So insuring custody or people ask about this and the President's Working Group on Digital Assets has a thing about insured custody in their report from last July. And it's been a tough market. Right. Because this is my understanding over the years of link, sort of loosely following this question, most big crypto exchanges have some form of custody on their hot wallet. Right on their send and receive. But getting longer term, bigger coverage that potentially would need to cover billions of dollars has been really hard. And I think even to the extent that they have some insurance on a hot wallet, it's. It's historically been more like cybersecurity insurance. Right.
- [30:06]
C
Well, so any hot wallet insurance will ultimately be cyber coverage.
- [30:13]
A
Right.
- [30:14]
C
So you generally would want to segregate your risk types to be able to get the best pricing on each type of risk. So hot wallet is cyber. Cyber risks are pervasive, frequent, frequent and when they happen, severe. So cyber coverage and hot wallet coverage tends to be more expensive and cyber covered.
- [30:36]
A
Again, even outside of crypto cyber coverage is because the potential losses, it's enormous. Like I think about was it Home Depot, I think had this giant, what was a pretty bad hack but like it spiraled well beyond what you might think from a cost perspective for them, there were lawsuits then that emanated from it and regulatory fine. I don't want to speak too much about that when I forget all the details, but it's way bigger than just losing the thing.
- [31:01]
C
Yeah. And a lot of times when a company has an insurance policy, it's to protect themselves. Right. So as you said, like if you have a loss or an incident, you potentially are being sued by your own customers. So a cyber policy can help protect yourself. It's not necessarily for your customers, for your customers. So what we say ultimately is the custodians have some insurance, but you are not insured, your Bitcoin is not insured. It's so interesting and I'll be very transparent and fair to what they have, which is they all, for the most part, I think all have significant sized insurance policies. So somewhere between 100 million and $350 million insurance policy on their cold storage, which is great, except they have somewhere between 75 and $750 billion on platform. So it's less than. And so they'll say things like, well, we limit our individual wallet size to the size of the insurance policy. So it's important, if we lose one
- [32:11]
A
whole wallet, it would be recoverable.
- [32:13]
C
Right. But the problem in my opinion is that one of the biggest risks is internal, is an internal bad actor. And I think the way that will happen at some company is somebody or somebodies will have worked for several years. They will get employed at a company and spend several years learning the systems, gaining trust, setting their traps, if you will. Right. And if they're going to do that, I don't, I'm not confident they're going to limit it to a single wallet. Right. If they figured out how to infiltrate the company, it's going to be in a much broader way. So I think the risk is real and the market did develop for lack of options. Right. So I think companies did the best they could. But there came a point where they determined, hey, we're paying enough for insurance to check the box for marketing and why add any more insurance when all it's going to do is eat away at our margins? Because if we get more insurance, it takes us from half a point coverage to 0.65% coverage. Right. So it doesn't actually add a lot of protection for customers. So then they'll say things about the market, hasn't shown demand for it and things like that, which I think is clearly untrue. So I think over time we, we will see changes based on consumer demand and what they want to see, what they're willing to pay for. Hopefully, and I do mean this, hopefully we won't see a huge loss at a major player, which obviously would, I think, change people's behavior. But I really do hope that doesn't happen. I don't think it would be good for Bitcoin and certainly not good for the individuals and companies who would be impacted. So assuming that it doesn't happen, we will keep making great products available and meet people where they are and we'll
- [34:29]
A
pull the market over well, and they are moving in that direction, as you said. I guess it's from your perspective, of course. Nobody, you know, wishes that things happen. Like you lose money. Of course not. But you're. But I think there is, you know, just in cyber generally, like, it's. It's hard to say with a straight face that it is unlikely to occur. It's probably going to happen.
- [34:51]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [34:52]
A
And when it does that, that would move the market, I think, even further in your direction, I think.
- [34:56]
C
Oh, yeah. And I mean, we will always continue to develop and introduce new products. So, you know, our. Our custody insurance product covers wrench attacks.
- [35:06]
A
Right.
- [35:07]
C
That was a very integral part.
- [35:09]
B
I love that.
- [35:10]
C
You know, it was huge. We. We put in so much effort to be able to cover that.
- [35:14]
A
This is. And all bitcoiners. Well, if you've been in bitcoin really at all, you're aware of this risk, I think. And Bitcoin has a big culture of anonymity and privacy, partly because of the risk that holding bearer asset keys creates. This is my personal most feared thing as an individual. Right. It's like I've got a podcast. You know, I take great steps to be private with my personal information. Yeah, I think our audience will know I never really talk about personal information, but it's a huge risk. Risk. And they've. I mean, there was the stuff in France, like there were the French official tax officials, like selling identities to criminals. Right. Like KYC creates the risk here.
- [35:54]
C
Kyc. I mean, different countries. I think Scandinavia's had situations where they literally publish home addresses.
- [36:01]
A
I think that's the law there in like Norway or something.
- [36:04]
C
And it led at least to a husband, wife, I think, being murdered there.
- [36:08]
A
And so Jameson Lopp tracks reports of these attacks on GitHub, which.
- [36:14]
C
And I've shared this with him, but we actually use that listing and it's part of our actuarial.
- [36:20]
A
That makes sense. Oh, wow.
- [36:21]
C
Data. That's incredible. So that information has been brought. Incorporated into Lloyds.
- [36:27]
A
Well, it's an open source, like globally contributed to database of such attacks.
- [36:31]
C
So yeah, now Lloyds is also aware. So where I was going is that because we started covering wrench attacks, I became much more aware of wrench attacks, obviously, and much more knowledgeable, which led us that now we separately also sell kidnap and ransom insurance. Oh, wow. So it has a few things that make it extra, I guess, oriented to bitcoin owners. But it is a traditional kidnap and ransom policy that covers not just your Bitcoin if it gets stolen, but ransom payments if it's in another currency, if your family is domestic, you know, if they have to gather funds, it covers that. So it's things like that that, you know, we started as bitcoiners, trying to make bitcoin custody safer and make it easier and safer to own and hold bitcoin. And then from there we learned ultimately that actually kidnapping risks are a lot more complicated than just the asset itself being stolen. There's a lot of cost, there's a lot of risks. And so then, you know, we start serving more institutional customers. We are just a month or two away from being a qualified custodian.
- [37:42]
A
Congratulations.
- [37:42]
C
Thank you. That's. It's a huge, that's a huge change. So we have a lot of institutional customers who came to us last year. They were very interested in the custody model. They were very interested in insurance. They wanted the insurance. And then towards the end of the conversation they'd be like, you're qualified custodian. Right. And we'd be like, oh, we're not.
- [38:03]
A
You need a trust company typically, right.
- [38:05]
C
In a certain jurisdiction, either need state chartered trust, which is being recognized as providing that, or an OCC chartered trust. So we'll be a state chartered trust here and then move towards OCC after that.
- [38:21]
A
And actually this securities and Exchange Commission I believe has given, given the guidance to formalize. State chartered trust had been thought by many to be qualified custodians. But the SEC had always been like, not as clear. I think this one now has explicitly said they are considered observing it.
- [38:38]
C
Yeah, as that. Yeah. So it's good. There was a hearing maybe 10 months ago or something where I think both sides of the argument had opportunity. And yeah, I believe that was kind of where they land.
- [38:51]
A
Well, because it's one of these annoying things where it's like not that explicit. It's sort of like you as the investor or whatever, you make the determination that you're using one.
- [39:01]
C
The funny thing is that it's, you know, bitcoin is a Commodity.
- [39:04]
A
That's right. Well, the prior SEC had expanded the proposed an expansion of the custody rule to say that basically everything had to be in qualified custody, not just digital assets and commodity based digital assets like Bitcoin, also like gold. And they had said private investments. And I was like, well think about that. That's like if I am an investor in Anchor Watch right now as a, you know, pre or a pre public company, what am I receiving for my security? Well, it's like a PDF basically. It says that it's a legal document. So what I'm supposed to like ship that PDF to State street to hold on my behalf. Like it's ridiculous. Anyway, that was rolled back by this sec. So that makes it better.
- [39:45]
C
At least a little logic.
- [39:48]
A
And you had told me before and you said you could say you guys just closed a new funding round for income. Congratulations.
- [39:55]
C
Thank you. Just this past week we closed our series, a fundraise from a strategic investor who took the round and we're going to be expanding our insurance breadth. We will use our custody platform for new financial products. So I think a lot of changes will come of it.
- [40:16]
A
You guys started as a bitcoin security and insurance company and now it sounds like you're a security and insurance company for Bitcoiners and others. Sort of expand.
- [40:27]
C
It absolutely expanded. So what I like to visualize is picture a Venn diagram with insurance in custody. What everybody knows Anchor Watch for is the overlapping part, insured custody. And so that's pretty much what we're known for right now. And what this year is going to be about is expanding our capabilities to fill out the entire Venn diagram. So we've got all sorts of custody related capabilities that are different. Financial products require a custody base layer and then there's all sorts of insurance opportunities that are directly related to Bitcoin and some that are not. And so we'll expand to fill out. Anchor Watch is kind of looking to be the first company that you think of when it comes to custody or insurance.
- [41:17]
A
I love that. It's a good visualization, the Venn diagram. Becca, let's go to our second topic. I'm going to jump right in here. You have cancer and you've written and you've been fighting cancer. I know we were joking that this transition was going to be like, that's all right. We've gotten that out of the open. You've been battling cancer while also building Anchor Watch, which we'll talk about. Like that's incredible. But also you've been very public Sharing your story as you discovered the disease, have been treating, getting treatment for it, and the twists and turns on X. And I found that extremely inspiring.
- [41:49]
C
Thank you.
- [41:50]
A
That you would share. And you've shared so much. And people are very afraid to talk about this topic, but you aren't. And I think that's part of the inspiring thing. And I wanted to talk to you about what this experience has been like.
- [42:02]
C
I mean, what's kind of funny about the decision to be public about it? So, initially, it was a very quick decision. I made this decision just a few days before Bitcoin Las Vegas, because I had kept it a secret just for a few weeks. I had found out. I hadn't even told my family yet. I was trying to get a firm diagnosis before I did that to them. And it did a lot of emotional damage. Just a few weeks.
- [42:31]
A
You mean holding it in.
- [42:32]
C
Holding it in, yeah, just a few weeks that. I mean, I could feel it damaging my mental health. It was just. I. I was in this very dark place and I was afraid of dying, and. And it kept getting worse. You know, it had started as you have breast cancer and you need a mastectomy, and then it just kept going to. You have the second most deadly form of breast cancer. And the stats were terrifying. And I just needed. I just needed hugs. Right. I just needed support. I needed smiles from my friends. And so we were just a couple of days from going to Las Vegas, and I knew so many of my friends from the bitcoin industry were going to be there, so I just let it rip on Twitter. But since then, I think I just said mastectomy. A lot of. I think my decision to talk about it publicly is because it's embarrassing.
- [43:33]
A
What do you mean?
- [43:36]
C
Well, having a mastectomy is embarrassing. I. You know, I. I was mutilated. It's. It's. Losing your hair is embarrassing. Like, it's. All the visual. All the visual identifiers of being a woman and being and femininity were taken from me abruptly in the heights of, you know, young middle age.
- [44:03]
A
Right. Like where founding a company and.
- [44:05]
C
Right. And not. Yeah. Founding a company and then not being able to give it 100% every single day. And maybe people are going to think that I'm lazy or that I'm not as good as they thought I was at my job. And so I think by writing all of that, these things are embarrassing. Like, I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. But, you know, it's not embarrassing. Cancer.
- [44:35]
A
Not at all.
- [44:36]
C
Cancer is not embarrassing. Cancer just sucks. And so it was just easier for me. It was just easier for me to admit that this is happening to me. And very quickly. And, you know, I saw stats on how many new cases of cancer there are every year. And one of the first things I did actually, before I went public on Twitter that same day is I called an investor call and I talked to the 40 something investors and told them, you know, told them about it. And, and yeah, it was truly. I feel an enormous amount of responsibility for the company, for my team, you know, people that have really committed to Rob and I to build this together and their families. Right. Like their children. One of the things I took from working at Starbucks that was special about working there and working near to Howard Schultz is that he sincerely believed and taught us at corporate that our job is to keep our team, keep our baristas employed. Right. And so I've taken that very strongly into my own company that keeping our guys employed, keeping their children fed is my responsibility. And so cancer just. It interferes with every aspect of your life. Every aspect of your life.
- [46:19]
A
So getting. Deciding to go public about it. And, and it wasn't just the initial. And you went on, you talked to Danny Knowles very early. Was that the first. I mean, no, you. You went on Twitter first.
- [46:32]
C
Right, but I went on Twitter first. I talked to Danny.
- [46:36]
A
We love Danny, by the way. Shout out Danny. What Bitcoin did. Great podcast.
- [46:39]
C
Such a great podcast.
- [46:40]
A
Yeah.
- [46:41]
C
I ended up talking to him. He flew to Seattle and did it in my mind, which was amazing. Like, amazing. The night that I had found out that I wasn't stage four, which would have been 95% mortality in three to five years, and found out, no, just stage three C, 45% survival, 55% mortality, which, you know, two weeks earlier was so terrifying. I was first told I had 99% survival mastectomy, but 99% survival. So I was only horrified by the mastectomy. And then as the tests keep happening, I remember I dropped from 99 to 84% survival. And I was like, oh, like that's
- [47:34]
A
still high, but that is lower.
- [47:36]
C
Like, I don't do things that have a 16% chance of dying. Right, right. Typically.
- [47:43]
B
Right, right.
- [47:45]
C
And so it just kept getting worse and worse. But people like the. I got so much from it immediately,
- [47:55]
A
from doing the podcast with Danny, from sharing.
- [47:58]
C
From sharing. You know, the thing I really. With Danny, we talked about adopting my son. Right. And that was. Yeah, that was just at the moment it felt so important because I suddenly, I Was like, what if I might die? I might die on him, right? And I want him. I want this record of how much I loved him and how hard I worked to get him home. And at that moment, it was so important to me. And actually, Peter, he's the one that said we should record a show. It had never happened, but Danny immediately stepped up and did it for me. And I just love him for doing that. It was a great gift.
- [48:44]
A
It was an intense and beautiful episode. Yeah, it really was. I mean, and I can't say enough. I mean, go on Becca X and read her articles. I mean, sometimes you post it as a post, but you've got plenty of them. Just makes it easier. It's nice because you can find. So check out the highlights. Because she's documented so much of this journey, from finding out to the twists and turns of the diagnosis and then the treatment. How have people reacted in the bitcoin community or in. In the global. The public community, to your writings and stories?
- [49:20]
C
Overwhelmingly, it's been a great gift. People have reached out in every way. I made a decision early, very early in the first few weeks. I made the conscious decision. I will accept any form of kindness from anyone who offers it to me, Friend or enemy, different religion. I don't care if somebody took their time to offer me their. Their energy and their love in any form, I would accept it. And I think that's an amazing attitude. I'll give myself a pat on the back for that. Because what it meant is, with the exception of the Ivermectin crew, I'll set those.
- [50:08]
A
Actually, I've seen you debunking some of the never ending. Oh, have you heard that? Ivermectin, Mike?
- [50:12]
C
So they're rude about it. They're rude about it.
- [50:14]
A
Very weird. Okay.
- [50:15]
C
They're aggress, aggressive.
- [50:16]
A
Funny story.
- [50:18]
C
Yeah, it just. It put me in this mental space to accept energy. Right. Positive energy. And energy is catching. Right. So, you know, I reached out and I said, I'm scared. Like, I'm scared. And everybody gives me this amazing energy and this love and this encouragement, and it really does build me up. And there were days that I, back then that I was so scared. And I would literally think through running into friends at Vegas last year, other places I ran into people, and I would think about literally just getting a hug from them and seeing my friend's face where they told me it would be all right, or they empathized with me, or I could see their fear. Right. I could see their fear for themselves. Right. They could see themselves in me or see their fear for me. And it gave me real strength, not fake. Like it really, on some days, it's what built me up. And, you know, if people shared very personal things about their own. About their own journeys and their own lives and, you know, I. I use the phrase that, you know, I. I want to bow down to people who have survived, like, 95% mortality, because I was just near to that and it was so scary. And then I bow down to people who. Who lost the battle and. And you shared with me, you know, that you had lost your dad when you were young and. And that in particular, you telling me that it made me feel such respect for him, this man I've never met, because everybody was telling me how tough I was. And. And I am. I'm really tough. I'm so tough, but I still was maybe going to die. And I thought about this idea that you're tough so you will live, which implies that the people who didn't live are not tough. And on their behalf, I was so insulted. I was so insulted on their behalf of thinking about your dad and other people's parents and thinking about leaving your children younger than you want to and not seeing your grandchildren and. And how very tough he must have been to face that. And it gave me a lot, a different kind of strength than you might imagine, because it gave me the peace that if I die, I can go out still tough, you know, because I had to see that in him and other people. So people sharing those stories with me, you know, some people will never know the strength that they gave me, the little things they shared with me, the little phrases that I kept, the gifts that were sent, the flowers that were sent, it was massive. And it now gives me the strength to do that for other people.
- [53:58]
A
Well, that's beautifully well said, Becca. And you have given a lot of people strength. And I think everybody knows somebody or. And you've said either everybody knows somebody who has dealt with cancer or even passed away from cancer, or you will.
- [54:13]
C
Yeah, a lot of people, you know, the industry is very male. And I remember in that investor. The bitcoin industry, the bitcoin industry is very male. And, you know, thinking about, you know, many. Many of my friends, you know, their wives, right. You know, breast cancer, one in eight, I think, women. And hopefully they'll be much older than me. But, you know, I hope by sharing, especially the embarrassing part, right. That, yeah, when. If and when their wives go through it, that they will be better able to support their Wives with this disease that is just particularly brutal to your mental self image. For a time. For a time.
- [55:07]
A
I think it definitely is a resource and I know many people feel that way, including myself, so. Well, let's fast forward a little because you've just been posting recently about the current state of your treatment. How is it going? Now that I know we alluded to and a bunch of twists and turns in the diagnosis, like, where do you stand today?
- [55:29]
C
Well, I am still mid treatment, but I am in a much improved situation. So when I'm Even if I've been talking a little different and not being like I might die, I now think I won't die, which is great. So initially the diagnosis was I had two forms of breast cancer. One was dcis, which is common and not deadly because it's not invasive. It still requires a mastectomy, but once you get it out of there, it's gone and it can't metastasize. Then I also had triple negative breast cancer, which is the second most deadly form. It's a death sentence if it does go to stage four and very dangerous otherwise. So I had the mistake mastectomy in December, and in January, the pathology from the surgery came back and it definitely ended up being very interesting. The diagnosis to start with had been very interesting to the point that I have multiple hospitals. So I've got two hospitals in Seattle, plus I am a patient at Sloan Kettering in New York, which is second in the world. So when we did the pathology, everybody kept saying like, wow, this is interesting pathology, Becca.
- [56:42]
A
Wow.
- [56:43]
C
And you're like, okay, fascinating, right? So here's what happened is you get scored. It's called the residual cancer burden score. And you're scored either a 0, 1, 2, or 3. If it's 0, it means they did not find a single remaining cancer cell, living cancer cell. And it means the chemo got all of it. And as far as they know, it's gone. If it's a three, it's kind of the opposite. They very little cancer actually died. Almost all of it is still alive. And then 1 and 2 are somewhere in the middle.
- [57:15]
A
Right.
- [57:16]
C
And my tumors had not physically shrunk. I could feel them under, underhand. And mostly when I talk to triple negative survivors, or my oncologists would say, so when you're on the adriamycin in particular, the type of chemo that I was on, that tumor is gonna shrink underhand, sometimes immediately, like within the first treatment. You're getting smaller overnight. Yeah. And so by the time you have your second treatment three weeks later, you're like, yeah, it's smaller. It is definitely smaller. I did not have that at all.
- [57:49]
A
So were you worried at that point that it wasn't working?
- [57:52]
C
Yeah, in October. I mean, I. It's a. It was a panic attack. But there was a night in October that I just melted down, and that is the night that I faced mortality. And I pictured myself, like, I crumpled down the wall. I just slid down the wall, and I just sobbed for hours. And I looked across my house and, you know, pictured myself laying on the couch with my head laying in my mom's lap. Right. And just pictured how it would be and my family right around me. And so, yes, I was very scared. I was very scared.
- [58:34]
A
It didn't feel like the treatment was working. So now you were impending from the treatment.
- [58:39]
C
And I. Well, but I wasn't. I mean, chemo was not fun.
- [58:43]
A
I didn't mean to say this. I forgot one of the most interesting things you wrote about was how you weren't, like, getting the normal chemo symptoms in that part. Yeah.
- [58:52]
C
Right.
- [58:52]
A
I mean, I got strangeness.
- [58:54]
C
Yeah. I mean, obviously my hair was gone. You know, some things were normal. I'd say there were two things. Some things happened, but I'm just tough, and so I'm like, what is this? Nine sties? Is that it?
- [59:10]
A
Like, I know that you were saying that. I remember that. I was like, that doesn't sound very good. Nine styes.
- [59:15]
C
Yeah, that was fast. Yeah, but. But not just how I felt, but also my blood work was also strange. Very good. Yeah. Like, it didn't. My counts didn't drop as much, and when I took a break, I rebounded. Not just a little bit, but I rebounded all the way into healthy. For a healthy person.
- [59:37]
A
All of this part of the strange pathology.
- [59:39]
C
Yes, strange pathology. So at the end of the day, what they found. And it went to tumor board at all three hospitals, so is that they scored me in RCV2. So that's what the algorithm scored me, is a 2. Not great. 50. 50. But if you then start reading the details of the pathology, the triple negative, which was the dangerous one, they got a complete response on. So.
- [60:06]
A
So that was a zero.
- [60:08]
C
It should have been a zero. Yes. But what they found is there was actually a third type of breast cancer that they found called triple positive. So the situation now is. And the reason it ended up being so interesting, intellectually interesting, is that there are different protocols for different cancers based on where in treatment they're found. And all this Is very data driven. We had a situation where the chemos. I took four different chemotherapies. Some of those chemos were the same ones you would have given triple positive, but not all of them. And so the triple positive was not new cancer because it had been partially treated, but it hadn't received protocol. And so there was a lot of debate on, like, what do we do? Do we go back and finish protocol? Do we repeat protocol as if it's a new cancer? Do we just pretend that she had the head? Right. And so really, it actually gave me a lot of comfort because so many.
- [61:11]
A
Sounds like a very thoughtful.
- [61:13]
C
Well, it was first principles based, so they really had to say, like, okay, we can't just go by the stats. We have to think about how this
- [61:21]
A
particular case is like a new situation, basically. So you got the smartest cancer doctors and researchers debating with all the tools at their disposal.
- [61:30]
C
Yeah. And so I still actually, I got a call most recently from Sloan Kettering just this week, confirming that they had decided that I don't need radiation, which was amazing. So now the situation is I am actively on chemotherapy, and for this entire year, so I've got 12 months, 14 treatments of this chemotherapy. I just had the third one on Monday. It's, you know, my hair's growing back. It's thick, isn't it? It's really good. You know, I definitely have kind of GI symptoms. I'm tired, but overall, I feel good. I had this terrible kind of myocarditis over the winter that was a symptom of immunotherapy, and that's been improved. But really, I feel really good. And there are days now I forget that I have cancer. And that's cool. Like, that's really. It's a nice feeling to get. You know, there were times last year that I would make it maybe two hours, and I would realize I had forgotten for two hours.
- [62:45]
A
And you would literally then be like, oh, crap, I have cancer.
- [62:47]
C
Yeah, I have cancer. But I would think about those two hours, like, really nice. Like, oh, that was nice. Like, I had two whole hours there. And so now I'll like, maybe until I see myself in the mirror and see my. See my hair and remember. But at this point, even though I am still in the middle of it, the emotional. The facing mortality incident for me has concluded it could return. You know, one of the crazy things. I haven't shared this super publicly, actually. I haven't shared it publicly, but I have known since I was 13 that I was gonna have breast cancer. I just.
- [63:36]
A
You had a sense of it.
- [63:38]
C
There's a whisper. And I just knew my mom's mom had died from thymus cancer, which is behind your sternum, when she was 40. And I presume that kind of planted the seed. But when this happened, you know, the whisper, like I, I felt the lump. I saw it in a picture at the 100k party, actually. That's how I became really someone.
- [64:11]
A
A photo. Photo at a sailor's house.
- [64:13]
C
Yes.
- [64:14]
A
And you were looking at the photo and you were like, what's that? And then you reached down and felt.
- [64:18]
C
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Cuz I was wearing a very low cut dress.
- [64:21]
A
Wow.
- [64:22]
C
And yeah, there was just, you know, I was choosing what photo to put on Instagram. I want to look good. You had felt it before that and it was just like a little shadow. And so I was just looking at it on my own phone.
- [64:34]
A
Yeah.
- [64:35]
C
Oh no.
- [64:37]
A
Wow.
- [64:37]
C
Oh no.
- [64:38]
A
Wow.
- [64:39]
C
Yeah. And so the whisper was like, yep, it's cancer. It's cancer. And. And I still put it off a few months, which I wouldn't recommend. I don't think that ultimately is. Will have impacted me one way or the other, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend it. Yeah, that's true.
- [64:59]
A
By the way, for all medical questions I found. Yeah. Part of, I think maturing and getting older is, you know, making is actually going to the doctor. I can't tell you how many 20 somethings or like I haven't had a physical in five years and I'm like, look, I know you're like 25 and it's probably fine, but like I do all of the stuff now. You do not want to mess with them.
- [65:19]
C
And so many people too have told me they've gotten scans because of me, men and women. And nobody has told me they found cancer because of a scan, but they have. Multiple people have found pre cancer. And so that's gratifying. In terms of. What's really gratifying though, I would say is more. What's happening more and more is people will reach out to me. People who know me typically will reach out to me and tell me that they're somebody, their brother, their friend has been diagnosed with any sort of cancer.
- [66:02]
A
There's many types.
- [66:03]
C
Yeah. Like, and just could I, could I talk to them? And I always do. And I find it, I find it helpful for me too because, you know, I've been fairly emotional with you today, but for the most part I don't cry much anymore. Well, I cried plenty about cancer, but not recently. Because mostly I'm in a good place. What still makes me cry about my situation is just looking back at that girl last year, like, how scared she was. And I cried for her.
- [66:39]
A
Yeah.
- [66:39]
C
Because that's a terrible place to be.
- [66:42]
A
That was a tough time.
- [66:43]
C
It's a terrible place to be. And so being able to talk to people Right. During that time and tell them some things that will not make it better. I'm not trying to make it better.
- [66:54]
A
And you can't wave a magic wand.
- [66:56]
C
Right. And because I know I can't make it better, what I can do is really quickly, because things move so fast when you find out you have cancer, especially if it's aggressive cancer, is I can give you a ton of information about what you should do right now
- [67:10]
A
and what to expect.
- [67:11]
C
And right now, like, if you have something weird, here's go about getting a second opinion. Here's why. And here's why you need to do this tomorrow. Not in a week, tomorrow. Here's this, here's that. And just. And like, you got this. You're gonna be okay. Just fight. Just go. Just get after it. Just go. You're going to be okay. Let me know if you have questions. Just go fight. And, you know, I was a. I was very athletic. I was a team captain. And it just feels a little bit like being captain now of the cancer squad and being able to, you know, everybody has to fight their own battle. Nobody can do this. But to give them a little boost, a little bit of information, and, you know, there's one. I won't share his name because I don't know if he's publicly shared, but there's somebody in the bitcoin industry who was diagnosed maybe three months ago. And so we're working with his company, and. And so he knew all about my cancer, and he reached out to me directly, and I gave him the talk. Right. I gave him the spiel. And then we were texting a little bit, and I told him, you know, you need to look around you and appreciate your particular blessings, which might be different from my blessings, but your particular blessings that are going to put you in a great position to fight this disease. And when I then found out that I had a third. Third type of cancer, he texted me and he repeated my own words back to me. And, you know, they were pretty good advice. They were pretty good advice. And this gentleman has taken on the role of my cheerleader, even though he has cancer himself and he's crushing it himself. And he has the great attitude and the high Energy, just not out in public the way I've been, but having. Having this opportunity, you know, where I comforted women about to lose their hair, you know, a beautiful young woman who looked at my head and started crying and how hard that was to be the source of her tears.
- [69:58]
A
You wrote about this one.
- [69:59]
C
I recall reading this. But then be able to comfort her as well. And so to be able to do those things and then really feel it come back to me, it just. It's a. It's a blessing. It really is.
- [70:14]
A
I think the fact that I'm not surprised at all that you're seeing people in similar situations, benefit from your story and your sharing of it, because, you know, the Becca that was so scared, or the new newly diagnosed person, they don't know what to expect. They know what their life is gonna be like during treatment and all of that, the sort of even logistics of it. But they also have not confronted their mortality, most likely before and hard. And obviously your actual life and doing it has been hard and scary. But to share even when it was scary, I think is so many people need to hear what. What, you know, how to get through and get to day two and three and every day after that. And it's something I would. I will rely on if I ever face something like this as well.
- [71:12]
C
It's amazing the little things that matter and have made me very aware of the information that's lacking. One of my friends and investors, Cam Doody, who is in the. The bitcoin space, I saw him the night before I started chemotherapy, and I was so afraid of chemo. Right. Like, it's just. You get these lists of. So here's what it's going to do to you. Right. The phrase take you to the edge of human suffering was used, Right. So it's like, you know, you're getting this, like, okay, like, I'm just going to be under attack. And then here's the side effects. It can cause heart failure, lung failure, eye failure, permanent diabetes, liver failure. Right.
- [71:57]
A
Like one of those. The jokes about, like, pharmaceutical side effects on tv, they're like, do you have a pain in your finger? Take this drug. And it's like, side effects are like bleeding from the face. Exactly.
- [72:08]
B
You'll die.
- [72:09]
C
Yeah, Right. And so it's you. I just had this picture of sliding into unhealth, and then it's gonna become stage four, and then I'm gonna die. Right. And so that. That's. That's the. It was so scary. And. And Cam was like, you're gonna crush this. And I was like, I hope so.
- [72:28]
B
Yeah.
- [72:28]
C
And he's like, no, you are. You're gonna crush it. My friend started running ultramarathons as a way to. As a way to, you know, combat stress when he was diagnosed with a brain tumor or something. And. And I was like, you mean, he. He just started. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He started during chemo. That's when he became a marathoner. And until he told me that, you know, he's not a medical guy, it was just a thing that a guy told me. Until he told me that, I actually had no concept that remaining athletic or pursuing fitness or pursuing strength while on chemo, while on cancer was even feasible. And so just him telling me that just that was enough, that I was like, well, then I'm. Well, then I'm gonna be the fittest I've ever been on chemo. Then, like, why didn't anybody tell me that I. That I'm not gonna waste away?
- [73:30]
A
You thought it would waste away, and then you get bad news, and then you're just.
- [73:33]
C
Yeah.
- [73:33]
A
But it turned out.
- [73:34]
C
Yeah.
- [73:35]
A
So interesting how the sharing. People just really don't like to talk about scary things like disease and death. But they should, because I've learned so much about how impactful people sharing with you has been, and we know, and I continue to say how impactful your sharing has been, and I love that point. It's just one little thing. Turned out that you can do things still.
- [74:02]
C
Yeah. I mean, you didn't know. Essentially changed. I mean, it changed my health. Right. I went to the gym every day I could. There were only two and a half months I couldn't, and it was because of myocarditis. And now I'm back at the gym, and I feel it. Right. I heard Sloan put out a study about fitness, and they said three months of average chemo, and I did. The hardest three months of the average chemo causes 15% fitness loss, which is about a decade of fitness loss. So I will be on chemo for just under two years. And I feel it. Like, I feel it. And I feel like I am fighting for my health, but I am fighting because I know I can, because I know it will work. I know my body can heal. And. Yeah. So, I mean, maybe as I completely move through this phase and beyond this phase, maybe, you know, maybe there's something to do there.
- [75:12]
A
Interesting.
- [75:12]
C
But, yeah, like, look, cancer treatment is amazing.
- [75:18]
B
Yeah.
- [75:18]
C
And the thing that everybody is so scared about, chemo, the chemo is just as brief, brutal. The anti Nausea medication is miraculous.
- [75:29]
A
It works.
- [75:29]
C
Yeah. So the chemo, like the chemos I was on are the same ones from movies in the 80s, right. They're just as brutal. It's just that the anti nausea meds that they load you up on, they're great and they made it manageable. So anyway, so I think, yeah, there it's. I don't know how it will ever not be somebody's worst day when they hear that word. But the reality is most people survive cancer. And I think your experience as you go through it and the treatments for it is it's very unpredictable because remember, you're poisoning your body. Right.
- [76:13]
A
So just you're hoping you also poison the cancer while you're at it. Right. But a lot of collateral damage.
- [76:18]
C
Yeah. But you know, I think it will have positively, you know, you hear people say that and I can now understand why because I had this opportunity to confront mortality. Now instead of being forced, now it's the opportunity to have considered my relationships, considered my choices, consider the rest of my life, consider how badly I wanted 10 more years. Right. When I looked back at 10 years and how much I've grown as a person, how much I wanted 10 more years. And so now here I am. I've got them, I've got them. What am I going to do with them? It better be spectacular. That's the plan is something amazing.
- [77:08]
A
This has been an incredible conversation and thank you. I've said it a couple times. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you, thank you for talking to me on this podcast.
- [77:16]
C
I appreciate it.
- [77:18]
A
And everyone should follow Becca on X. Tell them your ex handle.
- [77:23]
C
It's Becca Amelie. B E C C A A M I L E E. And you can
- [77:28]
A
follow Anchor Watch as well.
- [77:30]
C
Anchor Watch
- [77:32]
A
and we're in your corner.
- [77:34]
C
Thank you.
- [77:34]
A
I love following your story and like you said, we said you can read. I mean you've got write up throughout all of these of just very honest. And I also, as a writer myself, I really understand the sort of the need to get it out. Right. You couldn't keep it in.
- [77:50]
C
Yeah. So helpful.
- [77:52]
A
I find writing, I mean even though I, you know, mostly write about, you know, arcane financial regulatory policies, I had
- [77:58]
C
never done it before.
- [77:59]
A
It's really therapeutic. I think people who don't and it's hard, writing is difficult. Like it's a muscle in your brain that doesn't, you know, you have to work at it. But your writing has been very powerful
- [78:09]
C
and helpful as well. Yeah, I appreciate it.
- [78:11]
A
Becca Rubenfeld, co founder and COO of Anchor Watch.
- [78:15]
C
Thank you.
- [78:16]
A
That's it for this week's episode of Galaxy Brains. Thank you to our guest Becca Rubenfeld from Anchor Watch and her friend Bim Nadabibi from Galaxy Trading. Everyone have a safe and happy weekend and we will see you next week. Thank you for listening to Galaxy Brains, the weekly podcast from Galaxy Research. I'm Alex Thorne, Head of Firmwide Research at Galaxy. Follow me on X@Intangiblecoins. Follow Galaxy Research on X@GLXYResearch. Read our written reports@galaxy.com research and don't forget, if you like Galaxy Brains to like and subscribe on your favorite podcast platforms like YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts and more. We'll see you next time.