Ant’s Heroics, Get Rich Quick Rumors, and More Emails

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Host: The Ringer
Episode: “Ant’s Heroics, Get Rich Quick Rumors, and More Emails”
Release Date: February 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Game Over features Max Kellerman and Rich Paul unpacking major themes in sports and culture, focusing on Anthony Edwards’ clutch performance, the evolving face of the NBA, viral rumors about Rich Paul’s business future, and engaging with listener emails on everything from basketball awards to the 2011 NBA Finals. The conversation is fast, sharp, and moves fluidly from deep life reflections to on-court analysis, all imbued with the duo’s trademark candor and wit.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Wisdom, Ambition, and Social Media (00:49–07:00)

• Jay-Z’s Influence:

  • Rich Paul identifies Jay-Z as a personal hero, citing the wisdom in Jay’s music and how it influenced his life and business philosophy.
    • “It’s just the messaging that came within for me and me being able to apply it to my everyday life and grow from that.” — Rich Paul (00:49)
  • Max echoes this, recognizing Jay-Z’s music as a guide for ambitious men in adulthood.
    • “If you are a man who is ambitious and you are already into your 20s, like you’re a grown up now, you listen to Jay and he’s speaking a lot of wisdom.” — Max Kellerman (01:16)

• Wisdom Beyond Materialism:

  • Rich reflects on learning from people with humble backgrounds, emphasizing the value of life experience over material possessions.
    • “A fool probably would walk past them, look down on them... But a very intelligent person would talk to them about their life experience, about their struggles, about their highs.” — Rich Paul (01:52)
  • Both hosts criticize how materialism leads athletes astray, suggesting that wisdom often comes from unexpected, less flashy sources.

• Social Media’s Impact:

  • Max calls social media a "cigarette for the brain," reflecting on its addictive qualities and negative impact on attention spans and genuine human experience.
    • “It has totally destroyed my attention span, my dopamine reward system.” — Max Kellerman (05:46)
  • Rich argues that social media prematurely fulfills people’s sense of accomplishment, reducing the drive for real achievement.
    • “It gives you this premature accomplishment of things... you’ve already fulfilled that feeling, that premature feeling.” — Rich Paul (06:06)

• Maturity and Delayed Gratification:

  • Max emphasizes the importance of delaying gratification as the ultimate sign of maturity.
    • “The number one thing correlated with maturity that shows maturity is delaying gratification.” — Max Kellerman (06:40)

2. NBA Headlines: Ant Edwards, Lakers, and League Parity (09:04–21:29)

• Anthony Edwards’ Heroics (Ant-Man):

  • The hosts break down Ant’s high-pressure three-pointer against the Clippers:
    • “He was smothered... Double teamed in the left corner... hits the three, yells at the head coach. That’s what I do.” — Max Kellerman / Rich Paul (09:13–09:36)
  • Discussion centers on the balance between star power and smart team play. Max wants to see Edwards develop the wisdom to pass in such situations for long-term team success.

• Modern NBA Parity & "Face of the League":

  • Max observes that parity is at an all-time high: “the two best players... are both bigs, Jokic and Wemby,” and exciting young talent keeps emerging.
    • “The NBA is in that kind of position where you just watch Cade Cunningham do this. Damn. That’s the guy. Then Edwards does something. Then Wemby does something.” — Max Kellerman (16:47)
  • Rich and Max agree modern NBA doesn’t have a clear singular star—it could be “someone different every night”—crediting the global expansion of basketball.

• Depth and Role Players:

  • Both praise today’s average NBA player:
    • “Your average player’s pretty good nowadays.” — Max Kellerman (19:02)
    • “The distance between that guy and the star has shrunk.” — Max Kellerman (20:23)
  • Modern 3-and-D wings can look like stars in the right context.

3. Get Rich Quick? The Viral Rich Paul Ownership Rumors (31:17–41:44)

• Eric Pincus Article & Billionaire Talk:

  • Max brings up a viral article suggesting Rich Paul is poised to sell Klutch Sports and buy an NBA team in Vegas.
    • “How’d you leave your boy in the dark about this?” — Max Kellerman (31:44)
  • Rich directly denies the rumor, playfully using a deck of cards to demonstrate no one can see his “hand” (business intentions).
    • “So what makes you think that Eric can?” — Rich Paul (38:31)

• On NBA Ownership:

  • Rich says he doesn't have the money (yet!) and wouldn’t target Vegas due to limited upside for investment.
    • “The Vegas team is going to cost you 10 billion. I wouldn’t want to pay 10 billion for a team.” — Rich Paul (34:43)
  • He explains that for him, ownership would be about investing in both the team and the surrounding development—like what’s happening with the Hawks and Bucks.

• Media Skepticism & Agency Competition:

  • Rich theorizes that rumors may stem from rival agents hoping to undermine his recruiting.
    • “Every year around draft time, one of these type of articles comes out... you have to go into the homes of parents and you have to answer the question, ‘Are you gonna own a team?’” — Rich Paul (36:21)
  • Max notes the upside: “If rival agents and journalists believe it’s plausible, that speaks volumes to Rich’s stature.”

4. Listener Emails: Awards, Kershaw, and the 2011 Finals (50:07–57:34)

• Reimagining NBA Awards:

  • Listeners suggest naming awards after greats (e.g., Sixth Man after Ginobili or Jamal Crawford). Both hosts debate legacy, with praise for Ginobili’s sixth man role.
    • “Ginobili is it. They made him a sixth man. And he could have started on any team.” — Rich Paul (51:24)

• Clayton Kershaw & Legacy:

  • Max calls Kershaw possibly the best regular-season pitcher but notes postseason shortcomings compared to legends like Koufax.

• The Heat’s 2011 Finals Loss:

  • Rich reflects on why Miami lost to Dallas, suggesting fatigue and that the loss was ultimately beneficial for LeBron’s evolution.
    • “This loss was preparing you for what’s coming next... Without that loss, you don’t get the 3-1 comeback.” — Rich Paul (54:23, 55:16)
  • They discuss the growth and humility that sometimes comes from failure.

• Idea: Custom Home Court Rules:

  • A listener suggests letting NBA teams customize their home courts’ three-point lines, analogous to baseball stadium quirks.
    • Max finds the idea intriguing for competitive innovation; Rich prefers basketball’s foundational consistency.

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Memorable Quotes & Standout Moments

• On wisdom vs. possessions:

  • “People oftentimes look at what someone possesses and decides that I’m going to follow them... But that person may lack knowledge and wisdom and that’s how most athletes get tricked.” — Rich Paul (01:52)

• On Social Media:

  • “It’s like a drug, man. It has the same effect on your brain as a drug.” — Max Kellerman (05:46)

• On NBA Parity:

  • “The league may be too good going forward for one individual... these guys are really good.” — Rich Paul (17:15)

• On viral billionaire rumors:

  • “But what I will say is, I haven’t talked to Eric Pincus. I don’t know where that article came from. There’s no truth or before.” — Rich Paul (32:21)

• On growth from failure:

  • “This loss was preparing you for what’s coming next.” — Rich Paul (54:23)

• On Playing Cards/Business Moves:

  • “Cards got backs on them for a reason. I don’t play cards like this [face up]... So what makes you think Eric can [see my hand]?” — Rich Paul (38:31)

• On Legacy:

  • “To come from people not even believing that you could even represent a player at all... All those things were said about us, by the way.” — Rich Paul (41:44)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:49–07:00 | Jay-Z’s wisdom, value of experience, money vs. meaning, and social media’s negative impact | | 09:04–14:47 | Ant Edwards’ clutch shot, star vs. team dynamics, player maturity | | 15:08–17:15 | Is Ant the NBA’s best? League parity, changing "face" of the league | | 19:02–20:23 | Rise of the “average” NBA player and shrinking star–role player gap | | 31:17–41:44 | “Get Rich Quick” rumors, Klutch Sports sale speculation, NBA ownership realities | | 50:07–52:54 | Listener emails: NBA awards, Kershaw’s legacy, what defines greatness | | 53:17–55:32 | 2011 Finals: Heat’s loss, LeBron’s growth, and humility | | 55:34–57:05 | Customizing NBA home courts, baseball analogies, protecting basketball’s traditions |

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Tone, Style & Flow

• Relaxed banter with sharp, often philosophical exchanges—always grounded in real NBA and life experience.
• Rich Paul’s business acumen and grounded perspective shines, especially when debunking rumors and reflecting on humble origins.
• Max is witty, quick to challenge Rich, and steers the conversation from big-picture culture to granular game analysis.
• The hosts interact with listener emails with genuine curiosity and playful debate.

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Final Takeaway

The episode offers an engaging journey through the intersection of sports wisdom, modern NBA dynamics, media scrutiny, and the business of basketball. Max and Rich seamlessly blend hot takes with real life lessons, reminding listeners that behind every game and rumor, there’s deep strategy, human growth, and the constant pursuit of meaning—not just wins or wealth.

Transcript

[Max Kellerman]

5:00am I'm up with a crisp Celsius energy drink running 12 miles today. Grab a green juice, quick change and head to work. Meetings, workshops.

[Rich Paul]

One more Celsius.

[Max Kellerman]

No slowing down. Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing. Celsius Live Fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail] It's a Season 2 playoff race with TGL presented by SoFi Select Sunday at 9pm Eastern Jupiter Links versus Boston Common Golf Monday at 7pm Eastern Los Angeles Golf Club versus New York Golf Club Tuesday at 9pm Eastern the Bay Golf Club versus Jupiter Links. Keep up. It's Golf Watch on ESPN, ESPN2 and the ESPN app.

[Rich Paul]

If you have to pick one. Yeah, for me it is Jay. Jay Z. Yeah, but not just because of the, not because of the accolades or anything like that. It's just the messaging that came within for me and me being to apply it, me being able to apply it to my everyday life and grow from that. Just that intel, I think, especially and the catalog too.

[Max Kellerman]

Jay is taught, if you are a man who is ambitious and you are already into your 20s, like you're a grown up now, you listen to Jay and he's speaking a lot of wisdom, you know, a lot of wisdom. Beyond that, he like, I don't know. I wouldn't say my favorite Jay Z songs are among my very favorite songs. Like, I think some guys hit higher heights than him by a little. But I mean he if you do it for, what is it, 30 years, how many ridiculous. And every time it's a gem.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but the key word you used was wisdom. You know, I think people push back on wisdom. That's why when I was young in front of my dad's store, although these people weren't doing great optically in their life, their life experience had so much wisdom within that a fool probably would walk past them, look down on them, keep going. But a very intelligent person would talk to them, talk to them about their life experience, about their struggles, about their highs. And you get to gain all that knowledge to carry on with you because obviously they've been on this earth longer than you. They seen more than you've seen. It's a lot that comes with that. I think people oftentimes look at what someone possesses and decides that I'm going to follow them or follow what they say because of what they are perceived to have from a materialistic perspective or trinket perspective. But that person may lack knowledge and wisdom and that's how most athletes get tricked. I'll be honest. You know, they're looking at what someone may possess. And in years before, definitely in my position from a. From a agent perspective, there was very few guys of representation that could take you back to their big house or they had the boat or they had a specific setup. So that caused a lot of. I would say that caused the ability to captivate the mindset. It didn't matter what you were saying, what you said, probably because people naturally. No merit to it. He got that.

[Max Kellerman]

How'd he get that?

[Rich Paul]

Yes, exactly.

[Max Kellerman]

But what you're saying about in front of your dad's store growing up, the old expression is a fool learns from his own mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. So even if those older people didn't have a lot, that doesn't mean they don't have a lot to teach you. Partly. Not only just about things that aren't tangible, that aren't financial success, but about life. But even the things maybe the reason that they're in a bad position or not a better position, they've accumulated wisdom over the years that they can share

[Rich Paul]

life's experiences is going to always outweigh what someone actually says in a moment if they didn't experience it. Right. That's, you know, that's difference between actually rapping about what you've been through versus rapping about what you've seen.

[Max Kellerman]

I'll tell you something else, like everything is. And listen, I'm not arguing against money at all, right. But everything, too much is measured by someone's financial success. So my father used to tell me as a kid. Don't ever let anyone tell you money's not important. Money is very important.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, I believe that. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But don't ever let anyone tell you it's the most important thing because it's not. Yeah, right.

[Rich Paul]

I believe that like so.

[Max Kellerman]

So people. So a lot of the wisdom that older heads have to impart have to do with living a full life. Not everything is related to how you're doing financially.

[Rich Paul]

And there's very little wisdom in social media. And we see today. You talked about it the other day. You had a great analogy as it pertained to social media. What was that?

[Max Kellerman]

Cigarette for the brain?

[Rich Paul]

Yes, it's a cigarette for the brain. Now I'm a firm believer that social media in itself. And I just saw something where I think it was one of these countries are banning social media for kids up until 16. I think we should.

[Max Kellerman]

It's a drug, man. It has the Same effect on your brain as a drug on me. I'm 52. I'm educated. It does, you know, I'm like, well, read all these kind of things and I know it has totally destroyed my attention span, my dopamine reward system.

[Rich Paul]

It's, you know, and it's also taken the wow factor out of everything.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

So now it gives you what I would say it gives you this premature accomplishment of things. Prime example, if you are in dental school and every day you post coming from dental school in your uniform, people start to say in your likes they like the post and then they're congratulating you and you're like, well, wait a minute, I didn't even graduate yet. And nine times out of ten, you probably won't graduate because you've already fulfilled that feeling, that premature feeling.

[Max Kellerman]

We gotta start the show. But the number one thing correlated with maturity that shows maturity is delaying gratification. That's the whole name of the game. If you can delay gratification, you can be a grownup. And if you can't, you can't.

[Rich Paul]

I like that. Delay gratification.

[Max Kellerman]

Not delaying the start of the show though.

[Rich Paul]

No. We have to start the show now.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Pretty fly today, man.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, you like sixes?

[Rich Paul]

See, I. Every time I think we're gonna just have an easy Friday. Yeah, you come with this bs. What'd I do? Yeah, I know. That's a Tom Ford jacket. It's the only thing you ever want to wear.

[Max Kellerman]

This is actually a shirt that is not Tom Ford.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, what is it? Don't tell me, don't tell me. Double IO jeans.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, we could stop there. Game [e-mail].

[Max Kellerman]

we're going to get to emails. Every show we're going to get.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, we got to get to emails. Yes. But can. Can you please really make it a five minute rant today?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I won't even be. Because that's, you know, because I want to hear get rich quick. Today is going to be interesting.

[Rich Paul]

They're going to start treating us.

[Max Kellerman]

Today is going to be interesting. 5 like get rich quick. And I'll explain that in a second.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. They're gonna start treating us like we're doing a concert. They charge you for going over in the city. So we gotta be. Gotta be careful.

[Max Kellerman]

Start the show. So we got a lot to get to today. Rich, there was an interesting piece about you. I didn't know I was sitting next to someone with such financial clout. I knew you did very well. But I, I didn't realize how well you've done.

[Rich Paul]

Hey, some things I just keep to myself, man.

[Max Kellerman]

The Wolves and the Clips and what happened last Edwards. The Lakers lose three in a row. I mean we, there's a lot to talk about.

[Rich Paul]

The Lakers again, I don't, I really don't care to.

[Max Kellerman]

We gotta get into it.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm just saying. I, I just. Let's just rather there's, here's what I'll say. Yeah, there's a, there's a lot more action. The spurs are winning 10 wins in a row. They're going for 11.

[Max Kellerman]

Or, or is it 10? Yeah. Tyres 10.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Tyrese Maxey.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, they're at 11. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Tyrese Maxeye surpassed Allen Iverson on the Sixers. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

What threes made.

[Rich Paul]

Three points made. Yeah. That's a big.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean Iverson didn't shoot so many threes.

[Rich Paul]

Don't matter. Don't matter. Did Ant man last night.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's start with the Ant man last night. So here's what's interesting to me.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying it's a big league.

[Max Kellerman]

The Wolves beat the Clips. No surprise. Ant hit a clutch shot. I think there was four. 40 seconds left. They're up one. He's on. He's, you know, not at the. He's. He's pinned on the side.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, he was smothered by the left.

[Max Kellerman]

Double teamed in the left corner against his bench.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, yep.

[Max Kellerman]

And, and hits the three, yells it. Finch yells at the head coach. That's what I do.

[Rich Paul]

They have that relationship though.

[Max Kellerman]

But what, what's interesting to me, and then afterward at the press conference and I saw this this morning on, I think it was SportsCenter, afterward at the press conference he said, look, maybe I should listen to coach. Maybe I should be passing to my teammates in that situation. He goes, but I just feel confident that that's the shot. Da, da, da. Rich. This goes back to what I was saying about Luca, about how when you are capable. Well, in Luca's case, he's capable of getting a high percentage shot on every possession. So that incentive in the short term kind of destroys the long term goals both for himself and the team because guys stand around and get cold, et cetera, and we'll get to that in a minute. But in Ant Edwards case. Yeah, Ant, you could hit a shot when you're pinned in the corner and you're double teamed over the defense in a clutch situation and win the game. You are capable of doing that more often than not that shot's not going in. More often than not, that's not going in. That's a really tough shot to make. And you got teammates. Right. This is something that Michael Jordan had to learn. This is something that most extremely talented scorers have to learn. You, you know that's not always a good idea.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but on a Thursday night, I don't mind it. And I think that if as long as you have an understanding, which clearly he said, look, I'm aware that I may should pass, but on a Thursday night against the Clippers, the Clippers were down three starters. You know, you're trying to win the game and they were up 1. So you still had some breathing room a little bit there.

[Max Kellerman]

If you missed a shot.

[Rich Paul]

Right. If you missed a shot.

[Max Kellerman]

I see what you're saying. It's not the, they're not down two with four seconds left in the game.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I just think it's, I just think having awareness. But also he also stated the fact that, hey, I, he, he said what he said, but then he also said, and I've tried that. So I just feel like it's better with me to take the shot. I think, I think you want that confidence within the player, but as long as you're able to monitor that and it's not every time.

[Max Kellerman]

I would have felt much better if Ant said, look, he's aware of the dynamic for sure. And I've tried that. Yeah, but how often did you try it? And I guarantee you if you try that, that's gonna work more often as a percentage than you taking that shot. You're double teamed in the corner. If you shoot the. Look, Ant doesn't shoot over 50% from three period, let alone double teamed in the corner.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but who does?

[Max Kellerman]

Exactly.

[Rich Paul]

Who shoots over? Nobody should be able to.

[Max Kellerman]

Exactly. Which is why you want me, which is why you want to hunt a better shot. That's the whole point. You want to find a higher percentage shot.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Here's the thing. You try different things on different stages. Right. Last night that wasn't an A stage. Even though the game was on prime. Yeah, it's a prime game, but it's

[Max Kellerman]

not, not a prime time game.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's not like it's the third round. It's the, you know, it's a game three of the playoffs. You're on the road, you could, you know, you're going to execute.

[Max Kellerman]

I would have, I think your point's, I think the best point you're making right now is, look, they're not it's not a game winning shot with no time left on the clock, there's 40 seconds, there's multiple possessions in the game, you're up a point. I, I would have felt better. Or let's put it this way, no one says everything perfect every time. A more ideal response from Ant after the game for me would have been something like, look, sometimes you're feeling it. Sometimes, you know, even though I'm double teamed in the corner, I feel good. I'm going to hit the shot. That doesn't mean I do that every time. Sometimes I'm going to find my teammates,

[Rich Paul]

you know, But Max, here's the thing I would say about last night. First of all, Julius Randle didn't have the best of games.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

So when these type of things happen, we have to look at the game in a very holistic way. What was some of the others doing? I know Jay McDaniels had a great defensive game for sure, and I think he, he also played well offensively. I didn't see Nas Reed really get into a rhythm after that. You know, if Divincenzo got it going, etc. They don't really have.

[Max Kellerman]

DiVincenzo had maybe 18 points, I think.

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's, that's a really good game.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Um, but. But if we want better answers or what be perceived to be a better response from players after games, then we should give them the questions to sleep on them and then let's do the press conference.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, right. I don't.

[Rich Paul]

Because you can't put a microphone in the guy's face after he just, you know.

[Max Kellerman]

But I'm not.

[Rich Paul]

Adrenaline's high.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not looking for the perfectly tailored answer.

[Rich Paul]

You won't ever get that.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm saying, like, what does. The reason it's interesting when the person's emotional is sometimes it reverses something about the way they're thinking about things that wouldn't be revealed if you gave him an extra day. Right. And what's interesting about Ant is he is in this moment in his career that we've seen from a lot of great players when they're trying to figure out how does this work? Like, when do I impose myself? What kind of player am I going to be? He's a scorer primarily, of course. I think the point you just made there that I like is you gotta. Every game feels a little different.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And you gotta. If Ant says. If Ant takes a day to reflect upon it and says something like that, like the way it felt to me, that was the Best thing for me

[Rich Paul]

or I was able to go back and look at the film. Yes, this person was open. I probably should have made that pass. I didn't see him. Had two guys in front of me. The shot clock is at 4, so I like my chances.

[Max Kellerman]

How do you think this all plays? You said Ant is already the best player in basketball. I think the best player. I think what's really interesting. I said I was on Bill Simmons podcast.

[Rich Paul]

You keep saying things, huh? And every time you say something, it goes viral. But go ahead, I'm listening.

[Max Kellerman]

So I guess that's good for us, though.

[Rich Paul]

It is good for us.

[Max Kellerman]

So I was on Bill Simmons podcast yesterday and I mentioned, like, thinking about it, the two best players to me in the world are both bigs. Jokic and Wemby. Two best players in the world. When was the last time that's been the case? It's like once every 20 years. That's the case. But where does the Ant performance last night? How does that affect the way you think about his positioning in that sense?

[Rich Paul]

No, I was still basing it off of potential. And again, I thought. For some reason, I thought ant was like 6'5, 6'6 you6'4. Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

So it makes it a little different.

[Rich Paul]

It makes it a little different. But still, my comment was, and this is how you got me not in trouble, but you just say things and you don't give context. You asked me about the face of the league.

[Max Kellerman]

Social media says things and doesn't give context.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but. And I said it would be a community, and that community would be led by. Yes. And I think every night it could be someone different. It's Kate, it's Tyrese, it's Wemby, it's blah, blah.

[Max Kellerman]

It's hard. You know what? You know what? Who was. Was a Cardinal? Was it Satchel? No, no, no. It was a Cardinal. I think it was. Bob Gibson was asked, what's the best catch he ever saw? And he said, the best catch is, like, the prettiest girl. The last one you saw is the best.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

So, like, the NBA is in that kind of position where you just watch Cade Cunningham do this. Damn. That's the guy. Then Edwards does something. Then Wemby does something.

[Rich Paul]

I think it's a lot of real estate available to be built on by any player in the NBA today. And going forward, no one has said, you know, every night you don't say that this is this guy's league. You know, it's just. No one has taken that yet.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And by the way, the league may be too good going forward for. For one individual. Interesting to just take that. I mean, these guys are really good. The guys that's really good are really, really good.

[Max Kellerman]

And also there's another. What you just made me think of is like, so, okay, so just. For example, greatest baseball player of all time is Babe Ruth. Because if you look at everyone relative to their league, he was the most ahead of his league than anyone else who ever played in any league. Right. Probably in any sport. Like, he was so much better than everybody. And one of the reasons for that is if you have a system, a closed system, if you have a group of people, the smaller the group of people, the more deviation from the mean, meaning the more wildly better and worse than average you are likely to have in a small system, right? If you have 100 players, there's gonna be someone probably who's way better than everyone and also someone that's way worse. But if you have 10,000 players, the more people you add, the less deviation from the mean you get in terms of excellence and how bad they are too. It's harder to have a big outlier the more people you have. The NBA is such a global sport at this point. So many people play it all over the world. It is much harder to find a Wilt Chamberlain or someone like that who's this much different than everyone else.

[Rich Paul]

I agree. You're not. You're not. Guys are closer and closer. I mean, look, you want to talk about the game last night? We saw a team win a game that had pretty much the bulk of their team out, but it was because of the way the other guys actually played. Fought.

[Max Kellerman]

Look, your average player's pretty good nowadays.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Look, you know, I saw him like yesterday. I was watching Rasheer Fleming know, Rasheer Fleming is. He was the 31st pick in the draft. He is. You know, he probably. He probably was the. If you ask the Phoenix Suns why they win the game last night, he probably. Even though Lucas still ended up with 41, 8 and 8. That's not the point. The point is he made timely shots. He defended as well as anybody could, and he's thrown in. He hasn't played. Like, if you count his DNPs on the season, he's probably got more than half of this year in dmps.

[Max Kellerman]

But no Booker and no Dylan Brooks. And all of a sudden there's an opportunity.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that's what.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I say it all the time.

[Rich Paul]

The role.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, so the typical, like the ideal role player in today's game is the 3 and D wing, who can switch, right?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

What do you got?

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, this is nothing. Just go ahead. I'm listening.

[Max Kellerman]

The three, indeed. Well, no, we can wait. I'm curious about who you're texting. There's things going on.

[Rich Paul]

No, man.

[Max Kellerman]

If you have to send a text during the show, that means something's going on.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. When my family called me, I make sure to get right back to them.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, that's good.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. My sisters, my brother, my kids. I don't. That's good.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a good policy. So 3 and D wing, who can switch is, like, the ideal role player nowadays. The distance between that guy and the star has shrunk. Right. It used to be their stars were so much better than that kind of player. And now that kind of player could be a star if he's in a certain role or at least if you squint, look like a star. Right. That makes it different.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Yeah. So the league. What we're saying is the league is in good hands.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Paul]

But at the same time, if that guy is out there that wants to build. If we were playing Monopoly and we landed on Boardwalk, you want to put a hotel on it.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, I read something recently. You don't want to put hotels.

[Rich Paul]

You don't.

[Max Kellerman]

I forgot the reason why in Monopoly, why they teach us that you want to. You want to stop on, like, three or four houses and not put a hotel.

[Rich Paul]

Why?

[Max Kellerman]

Because I forgot the logic.

[Rich Paul]

Because it's more of a. I forgot

[Max Kellerman]

the logic of it.

[Rich Paul]

Are they rental properties?

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, I don't remember why.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, well, we should find this out.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, it's because this is why there's a limited number of houses in the game. If you monopolize all the houses all the way.

[Rich Paul]

Go up on the price.

[Max Kellerman]

No, if you monopolize all the houses, there aren't enough houses for other people to build hotels.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, because they can't get.

[Max Kellerman]

They can't get houses. You got all the houses.

[Rich Paul]

Ah, that is very smart.

[Max Kellerman]

Very smart. Never realized that.

[Rich Paul]

You know, one day I went to Omaha, Nebraska, and I was. It was me, Randy, Lebron, and Mav, and we. We visited Warren Buffett in Omaha, Nebraska. We hung out with him for, like, two days. It was great, great experience. This is in, like, 2006.

[Max Kellerman]

And I'll tell you one thing he would say, see how we show up to the show every day in different kicks? He'd be like. He'd be like, need one pair of shoes. What are you guys doing?

[Rich Paul]

Well, he. Well, he told me something that I thought was very interesting, which obviously is Warren Buffett. But the point I was making about Monopoly was he gave me a Monopoly game that was a Berkshire Hathaway edition. That was all the companies that he owned. But what he told me was, he said. Because I was asking him a ton of questions about this and that and blah, blah, and he just said, you know, you only got to get rich once. And, you know, he lived in the Same House for 44 years, and obviously people noticed his public. But it was a very, very, very interesting trip to Omaha, Nebraska, with Warren. But that when you talk about the.

[Max Kellerman]

He's doing a mic check with Warren Buffett. Cause Jim Lampley's gonna interview him on an HBO show. Cause Terence Crawford's from Omaha. Yeah, he's the franchise in Omaha. Everyone in Omaha comes out for his fights, including Warren Buffett, who's a fan of Crawford.

[Rich Paul]

Fan of sports, period.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, period.

[Rich Paul]

Definitely a fan of Crawford.

[Max Kellerman]

So we were doing an interview with him, and we're doing a mic check, and he goes, mic check. One billion, two billion, three billion.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, my God. Now, that's what you call a flex. His sister was phenomenal. Really nice. I remember.

[Max Kellerman]

But he has a little. I think Warren Buffett is a little. Look, I understand the argument that the way you do the small things is the way you'll do the big things.

[Rich Paul]

You.

[Max Kellerman]

You should mind your money, not waste money and all that stuff. But it has become. With him, you have this one life. He won't get a certain McDonald's meal if there's a better deal on another meal, if his stock is down a little bit. At least that's what those are. The images I see.

[Rich Paul]

Well, we went to a restaurant where he ordered the same cheeseburger, the same burger. Same way, like medium rare.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

And he has a cherry Coke.

[Max Kellerman]

Nothing wrong with that at all.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, by the way, he's probably the largest shareholder in Coca Cola.

[Max Kellerman]

But also, cheeseburger and a Coke is pretty much.

[Rich Paul]

No, that's America's best meal you can have. That is America's meal. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Cheeseburger and a Coke. Can't beat it. All right, listen. Lakers lose three in a row, and they didn't even lose to an actual team. Like, okay, the Lakers are losing to a team without Dylan Brooks and without Devin Booker. And Luka went supernova offensively, of course, and they still lost. I thought it was a great play out of the timeout. I thought Austin Reaves had a great look to try to tie the game he just missed it. No big deal there, right? That's going to happen. But there's a lot that came out of this game, Rich. And let me just preface it by saying what I have to say by saying this. I understand from people's reactions to this show that whatever I say will be viewed through the prism of me being a Clutch mouthpiece, which is ridiculous. But people are gonna think what they think.

[Rich Paul]

What else is new?

[Max Kellerman]

I think Rich and I agree on a lot of stuff and sometimes that's in Clutch's best interest and we disagree on.

[Rich Paul]

Disagree on more stuff.

[Max Kellerman]

On a lot of stuff. And that's okay. But.

[Rich Paul]

And that's also in Clutch's best interest because you're wrong.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? There you go. So here's one that I'm sure people will interpret as me somehow being anti Luca cuz they think that's Clutch's position, which is not the case. And pro LeBron. But let me get into it. How could I say anything that could be construed that way when Luka just had a crazy great offensive game? He's a crazy great offensive player. Well, they lost. They have Luka, Lebron and Austin Reeves and Deandre Ayton. Everyone's healthy and they lost to a team without the team's two best players. How could. LeBron was 0 for 3 from 3. Austin Reaves missed the potential game tying shot and Luka went supernova on offense. How is this Luka's fault? Well, here's how I see what happened, Rich. When your best offensive player is getting himself all these high percentage shots and then even hitting the low percentage ones, what happens is guys sit around without touching the ball. I'm not blaming this all on Luka. I understand the team is not built perfectly around him. That's on Pelinka. But. But insofar as Luka is clearly the best player on the team, it's his team. I looked at what LeBron is shooting from three on the season. He shot 37% on the season last year. He shot over 40% the year before. He's a lifetime 35% almost three point shooter. And remember, I know, you know, his career started before the three point shot went crazy. So it took him a few years to get to be a really good three point shooter. And so otherwise his three point percentage on his career would be even higher. Right. He's more like a 37% three point shooter than a 35% really. But he's not a pure shooter. He's not concanipple. He's like most guys, he's a rhythm shooter. He needs to get his touches.

[Rich Paul]

Catch and shoot. Catch and shoot.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, sure.

[Rich Paul]

He's a really good catch and shoot shooter. When he's square. He's a really good catch and shoot shooter.

[Max Kellerman]

And in order to do. But also he can't shoot it once or three.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

He needs 10 shots like anyone. And so LeBron on the season now is under 30%. He's 29.9% from three. He's never shot like that from three. Been in the league forever and he's old. That's part of it. Your legs get a little tired. I get it. He can't create for himself the same way he once could. I understand that. But that really, if Luka is playing the best version of himself, which I think he's capable of playing LeBron and Austin Reaves and everyone is getting touches and getting hotter. And I will conclude by saying this. Deandre Ayton had a quote. They want me to be Clint Capella. As though that's a bad thing. DeAndre being Clint Capella for you right now on this Lakers team is a great thing. You are not nearly as good as Clint Capella was. This goes to your point about starring in your role. If deandre Ayton was willing to star in his role and be Clint Capella on this team, the Lakers would be in great shape, actually, if Luka would use his extraordinary offensive talent to get his teammates involved in the game more. LeBron's not shooting under 30% from three, just LeBron shooting 35% from three. The Lakers are two or three games better right now. Deandre Ayton starring in his role. The Lakers are another game or two better and they have a pretty good record. And so I think the issue here is people playing the right way. By the way, this goes for LeBron too. I watch LeBron. I don't think LeBron's playing the right way. The only dude on the team I see playing the right way every day is Austin Reaves. That dude plays the right way and everyone else needs to star in their role, and that includes Luka Dodgic. Okay, that's it. That could even be five minute max today.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I only watched the game in spurts, and when I watched it, I was watching it to evaluate Rasheer Fleming. So I thought he had a really good game last night and hopefully he can build on that. And I like Clint Capella. Clint Capella is a really nice guy. I spent time with him. I like Clint. He's a really nice guy.

[Max Kellerman]

If you put Clint Capella in his prime on this Lakers team, they just. They get better immediately.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not playing any more fantasy basketball. Okay, let's move on.

[Max Kellerman]

This is. By the way, I don't say any of that from the point of view of clutch sports. I say that from the point of view of me.

[Rich Paul]

I think you did miss something.

[Max Kellerman]

What's that?

[Rich Paul]

Marcus Smart plays the right way every night.

[Max Kellerman]

He does. He's.

[Rich Paul]

And he plays hard every night.

[Max Kellerman]

He does. He doesn't shoot it well enough, and he's a little passive.

[Rich Paul]

That has nothing to do with playing the right way.

[Max Kellerman]

I agree. But when I say play the right way, I'm talking about of the players that you're relying on to. You're right. Marcus Smart plays the right way.

[Rich Paul]

Thank you.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, I think Laravia plays the right way. More or less right.

[Rich Paul]

He's just.

[Max Kellerman]

He is what he is.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not combating NBA player agreeing with anything. I'm just saying Marcus. When I watch Marcus Smart play, spring

[Max Kellerman]

break isn't what it used to be.

[Rich Paul]

It's better this spring.

[Max Kellerman]

Stay three nights and get a $50

[Rich Paul]

Best Western gift card. Life's a trip.

[Max Kellerman]

Make the most of it. At Best Western, visit BestWestern.com for complete terms and conditions.

[Rich Paul]

They say you should learn something new every day.

[Max Kellerman]

Like how you should only drink Jagermeister at 0 degrees Fahrenheit, ice cold. Like those frozen cavemen they find. Which makes you wonder, what would a caveman think of Jagermeister?

[Rich Paul]

Well, if you served it warm, he'd probably throw it in your face, say,

[Max Kellerman]

unga bunga, and storm off. And nobody wants that, so drink it

[Rich Paul]

cold or not at all.

[Max Kellerman]

Jagermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly.

[Rich Paul]

Jagermeister liqueur, 35% alcohol by volume, imported by Mast.

[Max Kellerman]

Jagermeister, US White Plains, NY.

[Rich Paul]

He gives a valiant effort every day, Rich.

[Max Kellerman]

Now, I'm gonna yield the floor because this is time for get rich quick. And there was an article by Eric Pincus about the rumors that you are getting ready to sell Klutch Sports for a future NBA ownership.

[Rich Paul]

I need my deck of cards.

[Max Kellerman]

First of all, how'd you leave your boy in the dark about this?

[Rich Paul]

Thank you, Dean. Well, look, first of all, I don't know Eric Pincus.

[Max Kellerman]

What are you doing with these cards? You do a magic trick?

[Rich Paul]

I need to make my point. I need to make my point. I don't know Eric Pincus, but I appreciate him because he put me in a He put me at a level in which I didn't even know I had arrived to.

[Max Kellerman]

I didn't know you had billions,

[Rich Paul]

which is unbelievable.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not paying for dinner ever again with you. You got billions of dollars.

[Rich Paul]

But what I will say is I haven't talked to Eric Pincus. I don't know where that article came from. There's no Truth or Before.

[Max Kellerman]

If Rich tries to play cards with you and it looks like he doesn't know what he's doing, he's hustling you.

[Rich Paul]

Look at the shuffle. I don't know where any truth or merit comes to that. But what I will say is to understand the importance of buying a team. One, if I did have. I don't have enough money to buy a team, Max. I really don't. So I didn't keep you in the dark. That's number one.

[Max Kellerman]

You need a few bucks? I'll throw in 40.

[Rich Paul]

But he may foresee something down the road. And I hope Eric is right, because he may be a hell of a guy. Hope he's right. But currently, today, at least last time I checked,

[Max Kellerman]

couple billion short.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, I'm gonna need a lot more zeros than what I saw. But nevertheless, no. But I will say, in thinking about buying a team, and I think he mentioned Vegas, that's not the team I would want to buy.

[Max Kellerman]

Why not Vegas?

[Rich Paul]

Because there's no upside. If you're buying a team, that's a pretty big asset to have and you want opportunity for growth. And when I look at buying a team, most teams, it's just record. People say they lose money. If I was an owner of a team, I'm gonna be one of those owners that don't shy away from paying the tax. I wanna pay the tax. Because you paying the tax means that you're giving yourself a valiant effort of winning every year because you placed the right roster, you didn't cut corners and all those things at the same time. I'm gonna also want and following in the footsteps of somebody like my man Joe Lacob, who does an unbelievable job on the business side with the Warriors. I'm going to want a team where the business side, I have the right partners, I'm able to have the right ticket packages and things like that. I'm able to have the right TV deal and so on and so forth. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

So you're going to be one of these owners who wants it. Like Lacob, operates at a profit. Also has because most owners, the equity is going up so high that they can afford to lose a little bit in terms of operating the team. You're saying you want the equity to be rising and you want to be making a profit every year, and you want to be competing.

[Rich Paul]

Well, the Vegas team is going to cost you 10 billion. I wouldn't want to pay 10 billion for a team. And this notion that, you know, obviously, LeBron not going to always be paired. I've never had that conversation with LeBron about anything, let alone about buying a team. And I could. And I shouldn't be in that conversation because, I mean, what are you going

[Max Kellerman]

to bring right now?

[Rich Paul]

I give him an iou. I can give him a promissory note, but. But other than that, I'm in trouble,

[Max Kellerman]

but I want in on this.

[Rich Paul]

But then the other part about it is when you talk about having a team, it's not just about you having the team. It's also about what you can do, what you can do in that other. In that city around having the team.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Nowadays, you see what the Hawks are doing. You're seeing what. What Monumental and the Leones are.

[Max Kellerman]

What are they doing?

[Rich Paul]

You see what Haslam and why West Edens did up in Milwaukee. They're building. The Mavericks wants to do this. They're building these live entertainment, this portfolio where it's commercial real estate, there's residential real estate.

[Max Kellerman]

You're saying, in the area of the arena.

[Rich Paul]

Right. There's nowhere to build in Vegas. I wouldn't want to own the Vegas team. And ironically, Max, another thing I thought about is every year you can go back. Every year, around draft time, one of these type of articles comes out, I think, and I'm not accusing Eric Pincus for this, because Eric Pincus is on my side. He's foreseeing that I'm gonna become a billionaire. So this is my guy.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I'm rocking with him, no doubt.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

But what are we doing with these cards?

[Rich Paul]

But when I think about it, it's every year around the same time when you have to go into the homes of parents and you have to answer the question, well, are you gonna own a team? They told me you was gonna leave with. This is the other agency.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait a minute. Let me connect the dots for people. You're saying that as an agent, you're gonna have to go into homes of parents and. And they're going to ask you, like, hey, are you going to be just like a coach would recruit someone? Are you going to be there if the coach ups and leaves? They did them dirty. So who could Eric Pincus be talking to that he gets this information and then goes public that, in fact, you won't even be an agent for much longer because you're going to go own a team. Who has the motivation to tell Eric Pincus it could be the field.

[Rich Paul]

But the thing about it is, I would be okay if he called me. I never gotten a call to say, hey, Rich, I'm hearing this, and this is the only issue I have with media today. It's not real. Because you know me, if I put something out in the media, I do what, I put my name on it.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

I don't need a source. I am the source. So if you're going to write an article as such, I. I would think you would at least pick up the phone and say, yo, man, is this actually true? Is there any merit to this? Is this something fantasizing you would want to do? You talk to somebody about doing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, I never said. I've never mentioned this to nobody, but ironically, this is what comes out. But I have this deck of cards because.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay,

[Rich Paul]

take your hand, and this is the last. This is the last point I would make. And then from there, I would. We can move on. Okay. You see your hand?

[Max Kellerman]

I do.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. Oh, wow. This is a really good hand I have here.

[Max Kellerman]

So we're gonna organize him.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you have to organize them now. This is how I play cards. Can you see my hand?

[Max Kellerman]

I cannot.

[Rich Paul]

So what makes you think that Eric can?

[Max Kellerman]

In other words, if you're gonna make a move, they're not gonna see you coming.

[Rich Paul]

Cards got backs on them for a reason. I don't play cards like this.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. I got the winning hand, by the

[Rich Paul]

way, depending on what we playing. But, yeah, I don't play cards face up.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

It's a difference. So, listen, I'm with the article, and you want to make me, you know, foresee me being a billionaire. Great. But there's no merit to it. It's totally fine. Is there anything on you. And the last point I'll make is, oh, I have a great job. My partners at UTA are fantastic. My team at Clutch Sports Group is fantastic. I go to work every day. You see how I go to work every day, smiling. It's great. I'm good. I don't.

[Max Kellerman]

You know, is there any part of you knowing that we were gonna talk about this today that. Cause, you know, it's not like we don't know what we're gonna talk about? Is there any part of you that's like, do I even address this or Do I tell Max I don't even wanna talk about it because I let them think that I got. That I'm in a position to buy a team.

[Rich Paul]

No, no. Because again, I don't need that. And that's not something that's important to me. What's important to me is, you know, when you've been able to build a business from nothing. Right. Excuse me. You come to appreciate what you have, the position you're in. You know, I talked to some gentlemen the other day that were. That were convicted felons and they were. They were incarcerated at some time. And we had a real conversation. Those things I don't take for granted. Being an example for people and, you know, giving people hope that they. That you don't have to succumb to your environment. And so I enjoy my position. I don't like a statement to media and things of that nature because that just gets clipped. I like to give context about things. And it's not a negative thing. It's not like it's a bad article or whatever. The only bad part about it is none of it's true.

[Max Kellerman]

You have to be proud on some level.

[Rich Paul]

No, I am. No, that's what I'm saying.

[Max Kellerman]

Think about this. If a rival agent. If a rival agent is talking to Eric Pincus about. Because he's trying to undermine your ability to sign players. Let's say if he's talking to Eric Pincus and he believes that, and Eric also thinks this is credible enough for me to put out there.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Then that means you've reached a position in terms of your reputation where that's plausible, that you could buy a team.

[Rich Paul]

That's awesome, 100%.

[Max Kellerman]

But when you be even better, if you could buy a team, but. Right. That's pretty good, though.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, listen, listen. The strides we've made as a company, where we're positioned at now is great. Across the group, you know, and it's clutch. Uta, it's one thing, right? So at the end of the day, I'm fine with that. Of course. Yeah. You know, to be in that. To come from people.

[Max Kellerman]

You had an article saying, hey, I'm gonna go buy a team.

[Rich Paul]

To come from people not even believing that you could even represent a player at all. You know, you gotta remember it was said that, you know, LeBron is friends. You know, it's like taking over his business. It's like having a plumber do your heart surgery. All those things were said about us, by the way.

[Max Kellerman]

And you understand why? Because normally in life, it does not work out. When the dude's family and friends try to run his career, it just doesn't work out. It is. It is.

[Rich Paul]

99% of the time.

[Max Kellerman]

It doesn't matter. Right. You are an exception to the rule, so you understand why people would be skeptical. I think one of the interesting things about LeBron, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but watching from where I sit, his career, and I remember from high school till now, it seems to me like LeBron operates the following way. He doesn't forget the people he meets along the way, and he gives them chances.

[Rich Paul]

He.

[Max Kellerman]

He opens a door for them, and the ones that can carry their weight and add to the enterprise stick around. Is that true or not?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but I'll add one twist to that. He doesn't give a chance for the sake of being given a chance. I'm so glad I'm not his brother or anything like that, because when you have that, then it's kind of like you can. But most cases, you're not gonna fire your brother for doing a bad job or whatever. You know, he waits till you show that you have capabilities of doing something to give the opportunity.

[Max Kellerman]

Understood.

[Rich Paul]

And so for me, I wanted to build a business that was independent of him, which is what I did. And so given the opportunity. Yes. But I get. In addition to that, every other player has also given me an opportunity and given us an opportunity. And so you don't take those things for granted every year, night in and night out. Right. And so the difference is, it's one thing to give someone an opportunity. It's another thing for that person to have capabilities to take on the opportunity that's given.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

So I can give you an opportunity to run the company, Max. But if you don't have an idea of how to run a company, and you're probably better off being on a specific team where you fit better, starring in a role. Great. I'm not doing that just because you're my cousin or my brother or whatever the case may be. And I know that sometimes I. And we've made it look easy, but it's a very, very, very difficult job that's masked by the money. You don't necessarily look at the mistakes. When you're making max dollars, you tend to look over the mistakes. When you. On the minimum, those mistakes shine brighter, just like whenever. If the Lakers lose a game, that's going to be a bigger. Because they're on a bigger platform and a bigger market, et cetera. But most times, you know, a lot of it is surface level, Surface level management or representation. Like if you really look up under the hood, it would change things. And so I always wanted to be able to perfect my craft, be in a position to where I can grow a business. You know, like we work a job where you can wake up tomorrow and somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed and it's like, oh, well, you know, I met a guy that told me that, you know, I should probably be doing something different.

[Max Kellerman]

And yeah, it's easy to want. Especially like if you're like, this goes back to the DeAndre Ayton thing, right? What do you want to hear? That you should be a role player when you're the number one overall draft pick and you're seven feet tall or that you should be a more of a starring role? Of course deandre Ayton is going to his ears will be more open to those who tell him that they don't have you in a big enough role versus people who are telling them the truth, which is like, you know, do what Aaron Gordon and Andre Iguodala did and everyone loves you and you get to win and you make a ton of money.

[Rich Paul]

And when you get next to it, when you get next to talent, it's two ways to approach being next to talent. And I tell people this all the time. You can wanna have all the. You can wanna take the credit, you can wanna have the optics of like it's looking as if you're doing everything right. And that person, in most cases they're probably going to screw it up, just to be honest with you. Or you can actually quarterback the situation. And if you're quarterbacking the situation, I'm not necessarily doing the actual work, but

[Max Kellerman]

I'm sometimes giving the ball to the running back.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, I'm giving the ball to the running back. I'm throwing a quick slant. I may roll out and pitch it, but I'm cultivating relationships that I'm bringing back to the nest that we can then enhance our infrastructure within. Because the whole goal is to surround yourself with people that's smarter than you are. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

This is the old one. A's hire A's, but B's hire C's. Right. Because the B doesn't want competition for the job.

[Rich Paul]

No, they want the credit.

[Max Kellerman]

No, A feels very secure. So they want other highly competent people.

[Rich Paul]

And it's very hard to be, be successful without building infrastructure, without having expertise, without having great strategy and being able to execute alongside of that strategy. And so most people just dive into and are satisfied with and invest in the fact that I'm making a lot of money. And when you see most big time players and again when I say big everyone don't need the everyone doesn't need 75 people working for them. Right. But maybe you need two to three really strong people working for you and playing different roles. So this is what we do within we try to put a team around each guy depending on what's necessary and we want to execute at the highest level but in the most efficient way.

[Max Kellerman]

You don't have to waste their money

[Rich Paul]

and stuff like that. And look when you go to a grocery store there's all type of different brands on the shelf. There's Dr. Pepper, there's Mr. P, there's Faygo, there's Coca Cola, Pepsi. They may not all be worth the same value, but they all have value. And I think that's when you thinking about the athlete it's the same way so but no look I'm not Eric's a good guy man. I mean he wrote the article and he foreseeing me become a billionaire and so but there's no merit to it.

[Max Kellerman]

Eric found it credible. Yeah enough to print what he is learning. So someone has to be telling him

[Rich Paul]

yeah, I don't know who that person is.

[Max Kellerman]

Some people who perhaps have an interest in undermining your agency business. That's every day though that's potential because if players think oh he's not even gonna be an agent much more then it gives the other agents ahead. None of that. The important thing is for you in my view is Eric Pincus founded credible enough that you are getting ready to buy a team to print that which says really good things about the way you are perceived. Right?

[Rich Paul]

Okay. The world moves fast.

[Max Kellerman]

Your workday even faster.

[Rich Paul]

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[Max Kellerman]

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[Rich Paul]

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[Max Kellerman]

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[Rich Paul]

So, thank you, Eric. I really appreciate that. Thank you.

[Max Kellerman]

You ready to do some emails?

[Rich Paul]

Let's do it.

[Max Kellerman]

Hey, fellas, it's Mike in Nashville again, inventor of the very unpopular Pippen Award. I'd like to formally announce its immediate retirement.

[Rich Paul]

Well, at least he has awareness.

[Max Kellerman]

Mike was like, hey, the Pippen Award should go to the second best player on the championship team. And we talked about how does that go over? Like, if the Celtics win it this year, if Brown or Tatum get the Pippen Award, they're going to be happy about that. If Kobe got the Pippen Award next to Shaq, he wouldn't be happy about that. No, I get why you weren't sold. That said, I did love where the conversation went. He wants to do other kinds of awards. I didn't love his suggestions for the other awards, like, nastiest crossover for Allen Iverson, but what other awards could you give someone named for people? That's not a bad idea.

[Rich Paul]

Like, for example, we have enough. We have the Bob Koozie Award. We have the.

[Max Kellerman]

What's the sixth man named after? Ginobili. Right.

[Rich Paul]

It should be Jamal Crawford. If there's a name.

[Max Kellerman]

The name of it, I would say. Sixth man, once upon a time, could be Vinnie Johnson.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Then it could have been Jamal Crawford.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. And Ginobili.

[Max Kellerman]

I think Ginobili is the guy. Ginobili is it. They made him a sixth man.

[Rich Paul]

And he could have started on any team. Yeah, of course.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, ever. He was incredible player.

[Rich Paul]

Jamal made it look better, though, huh? Jamal just made it look better.

[Max Kellerman]

To this day, my father. Well, not recently because he's. But. But because we don't. We haven't talked about it in a while, but he has through the years. Max. Why did they get rid of Jamal Crawford? The Knicks? What were they thinking about?

[Rich Paul]

Our popularity versus famous went over really well.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, is that right?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Got a lot of traction on that. But it's true.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, Mario asks, how would you describe Clayton Kershaw? I live in la. Big Dodgers fan or big Los Doyers fan? Ever since. Since forever. Oh, since forever. Me, personally, I think he's the greatest Dodger ever. No, I would say Clayton Kershaw had the chance to be. He was in the conversation for greatest pitcher ever. Given the quality of his prime, how it stacked up to his league, how many times in a row he'd lead the league in the. He's basically a modern day Koufax in terms of Value what he was doing. But the difference was Koufax in the. In the World Series, in the playoffs. Rich. He established a level which is the best ever, basically, in the regular season and in the playoffs, he got better. Clayton Kershaw, great pitcher, got worse in the playoffs. That's all. And so you can't talk about him as he's among the best ever regular season pitchers. That's as much as I could say.

[Rich Paul]

And obviously, I like Clayton Kershaw.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah, Great guy.

[Rich Paul]

I know about the best Dodger dude

[Max Kellerman]

is going to, like, dig wells in Africa and stuff. And, like, he's like, a good, good guy.

[Rich Paul]

Good for him.

[Max Kellerman]

Jalen writes. Rich, what do you believe was the biggest reason for the heat losing in 2011 against Dallas? Some say roster construction around the big three. Some obviously just blame LeBron. Some blame Spo for not being the Spo we all know today. What are your thoughts?

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's a good question. I remember it vividly. I think it was just one of those things where, I mean, obviously, we all know who the media scapegoat was. That's clear. But, no, I just think it was one of those things where that was the first season. They didn't get off to a great start that year. They were like 500 after, I think, like, 33 games or 35 games. Close to 500. Then they had a hell of a run. Sure did. And I think that, you know, sometimes you kind of shoot your wide a little bit because the first round they rode, the second round they rode.

[Max Kellerman]

Dean wants me to pause you. I could hear him snickering.

[Rich Paul]

No, man, I'm gonna have to pause you, Rich. Okay, fine. But sometimes, you know, like, you run out. Yeah, you just do. And I think they had great games. Great games. Great games. Great series. Great series. Great series. And then they got to the finals, and they actually had a game that they probably should have won.

[Max Kellerman]

I think LeBron has always had.

[Rich Paul]

But I'm glad he didn't. I'm glad he did not, because it

[Max Kellerman]

taught him going forward.

[Rich Paul]

Not even that we had this conversation and we went to the Bahamas afterwards, and myself, D. Wade and LeBron were talking about. And they were kind of going over things, and I said at that time, I said, I'm so glad that you guys didn't win in that manner. I'm glad because I felt that that villain role, that's not who you are as a person. And if God allows you to win in that capacity and you carry that with you, that's gonna spill over Outside of basketball. And so this loss was preparing you for what's coming next.

[Max Kellerman]

It also turns him into more. There's this humility involved and it turns him into more of a sympathetic figure.

[Rich Paul]

Without that loss, you don't get the 31 comeback.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Right. Because now you're a different person. And so yes, he should have played better and he probably was capable of playing better. But I just feel like, man, when God prepares you for certain things, you don't know why and you just have to go through it.

[Max Kellerman]

Last email ready for this?

[Rich Paul]

Sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Robert says. So how incredible would it be if each NBA team was allowed to design the home courts? Meaning what? If each team was allowed to make the decision regarding the three point line, for example, some teams would be able to move the line way out and some would have the ability to completely eliminate it. Making all baskets worth two points. Let me tell you why I kind of like that idea.

[Rich Paul]

You like everything that makes no sense.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, I'm willing to explore it. Baseball teams. One of the interesting things about.

[Rich Paul]

I know what, it's the asymmetry. It's a cool thing to think about,

[Max Kellerman]

but the Yankees got Babe Ruth way back in the day. You know what the first thing they did, Rich? They brought the right field porch in. So it's good for left handed power hitters.

[Rich Paul]

I know, man.

[Max Kellerman]

Be interesting if teams were able within some kind of limit to. To mess with the home court a little bit, try and give themselves home court advantage based on their roster. Or let's say you can't do it every year, but you could do it every five years.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know. I just like things to be original.

[Max Kellerman]

That's very original.

[Rich Paul]

I don't like anything aftermarket.

[Max Kellerman]

You think that's an aftermarket idea? It's the most original thing since the advent of the three point shot.

[Rich Paul]

I wouldn't say that's a. That's somewhat aftermarket. Yes, it is. But its originality brings forth an aftermarket feeling.

[Max Kellerman]

I think that's an idea worth exploring.

[Rich Paul]

Really?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Okay. Absolutely.

[Rich Paul]

Well, call Adam.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you have his number?

[Rich Paul]

I think so. All right.

[Max Kellerman]

So we're gonna get it to emails. Every show we're getting it to email.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it was great. I mean, probably got a little bit too long.

[Max Kellerman]

I think it's very interesting to hear you comment about the 2011.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, no. I mean, look, the point I wanted to make was exactly what it was. Things like that happen for a reason and I'm glad it did actually, because. Made a better person.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? Right.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

Game [e-mail] you got this weekend. It's going to be a hot week. It's going to be 90 degrees today.

[Max Kellerman]

Poolside beach.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

What are you doing?

[Rich Paul]

Office.

[Max Kellerman]

Office. All weekend?

[Rich Paul]

Not all weekend, no.

[Max Kellerman]

Golfing. I know you're golfing.

[Rich Paul]

Of course.

[Max Kellerman]

So that's the answer. Golfing.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And food.

[Max Kellerman]

Golfing and food.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

I will see you on Monday.

[Rich Paul]

See you Monday.

[Max Kellerman]

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