Cam’ron Joins Game Over

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: Cam’ron Joins Game Over

Date: May 13, 2026
Host: The Ringer
Guests: Cam’ron, Mase

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode welcomes Harlem rap icon and "It Is What It Is" podcast host Cam'ron, with a guest appearance by his co-host Mase. Together, they join Max Kellerman and Rich Paul to discuss the evolution of sports media, the dynamics of sports talk, hip hop culture, and the intersection of entertainment and business. The discussion ranges from the authenticity of their sports show, industry anecdotes, debates about rap rankings, the modern NBA, and the state of boxing—all told with humor and unfiltered honesty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis of "It Is What It Is" (03:52–09:16)

• Authenticity & Format:
  Cam'ron details how he wanted a sports show that blended real conversations with a professional look, drawing from barbershop debates, but in a polished studio, not someone's living room or a corporate set.

  "I'm gonna talk how we talk in the barbershop, in the gambling spot, on the corner, on the stoop, wherever you at. And I'm gonna get a professional setting, and then I'm gonna combine the two." —Cam'ron (05:55)

• Chemistry with Mase:
  Their long history together (since age 8 or 9) and natural banter underpin the show's ease and energy.

  “We could sit here and do a 10 season episode of us going to high school.” —Cam'ron (08:50)

2. The Evolution of Hip Hop in Media (10:20–15:59)

• Rappers as Podcasters:
  Discussion turns to why former rappers (e.g., Joe Budden, N.O.R.E.) succeed in podcasting. Mase notes that both identified the potential for storytelling and built successful, authentic platforms—Budden "mastered" his niche.

  “He makes the people on his show celebrity. I think that he knew the niche and mastered it.” —Mase (12:06)

• Raw Appeal:
  Cam'ron and Mase emphasize their conversational style—cutting through stats with real talk, mirroring how fans genuinely debate sports.

  “We gonna give you analytics ... But we boil it down to, yo, is Aaron Rodgers good or he ain't shit?” —Cam'ron (15:12)

3. Hip Hop Beef, Growth, & Generational Shifts (17:53–28:39)

• Jay-Z on the Kendrick/Drake Beef:
  Mase reflects on how wealth and maturity can distance artists from the culture’s needs.

  “When you mature and you get to a certain level, you think everybody's getting there...” —Mase (18:00)

• Old vs. New in Rap:
  The panel traces how today's artists can succeed outside the label system (TikTok, social), making stardom less dependent on traditional talent pipelines.

  “There's more information. They don't ... need a label to be successful.” —Rich Paul (21:58)
  “I can't be mad at the technology ... you gotta let people grow up in their time.” —Mase (22:18)

• Cardi B as an Example:
  Social media fame led to musical success, flipping the old model.

  “What was the talent before her? Getting famous.” —Mase (25:30)

4. Collaboration vs. Competition (34:28–36:39)

• Industry Lessons:
  Rich Paul urges collaboration among Black artists and athletes outside the competitive arenas, drawing a parallel with wealth building in business.

  “They're compounding while we're competing.” —Rich Paul (33:53)

5. Debating the Rap Crown & Generational Perceptions (29:41–33:19)

• Lyricists vs. Stars:
  A nostalgia trip for New York's legacy of splitting lyricism and popularity (G Rap, Rakim, Nas, Kane).
  • Age divide debated—should rap, like rock, welcome older artists without forcing “relevance” issues on them?

    “How come it gotta be a young old thing when it comes to music? ... Bruce Springsteen is still touring." —Mase (31:02)

6. New York Knicks, Ownership, and NBA Analysis (39:01–47:45)

• Can the Knicks Be Trusted?
  Mase’s longtime Knicks doubt—giving a comedic rundown of playoff failures and fan desperation (naming streets after Brunson for ECF run).

  “I'm half century old. I haven't seen [the Knicks] win ever ... but I've seen this movie before. I'm not falling for the banana.” —Mase (39:01)

• On James Dolan:
  Debated as an owner who spends but can’t deliver a winning culture. Cam’ron defends Dolan’s attempts, Rich Paul says he cares mostly about owners willing to “pay the tax.”

  “He's a Wall street guy. He tries to hire the people that, quote, unquote, know basketball...” —Mase (43:12)

7. Top 5 NBA Players (47:00–49:53)

• Mase’s Top 5 (in no order): SGA (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander), Jokic, Luka, Wemby (Victor Wembanyama), Ant (Anthony Edwards)

  “SGA and Luka in the back court. We got Wemby and the Joker ... I'm going with ant over Giannis until further notice.” —Mase (47:53)

• Kyrie Irving Is Most Fun To Watch

  “Kyrie Irving just box or his game. Look, it's nobody else. Better dribbler ... the way he finishes around the basket, layup package. It's crazy, bro.” —Mase (49:59)

8. Boxing: Candid Opinions and Athlete Reactions (52:01–56:28)

• Barbershop Energy & Athlete Sensitivity:
  Cam’ron describes how athletes sometimes take criticism harder when it comes from "one of their own," e.g., his run-ins with Shakur Stevenson and Pat Beverley.

  “I just think it means more coming from somebody like me that they may have looked up to...” —Cam'ron (53:15)

• Pound-for-Pound Frustration:
  Difficulty ranking fighters since top matchups (e.g. Shakur vs. Tank) never happen.

  “The fights that I really want to see aren't happening.” —Cam'ron (56:01)

9. On Image, Authenticity, and Business Moves (56:30–60:32)

• Anecdotes:
  Cam'ron shares stories about image choices during his career, parking swagger, and lessons from rising with “the Diplomats.”

  “To see you guys growth... it's another thing learning, transitioning, and then becoming your own entity without that.” —Cam'ron (59:07)

• Rich Paul on Agents Doing Media:
  Discusses criticism faced as a sports agent moving into content, and the responsibility of being “the first that actually mattered.”

  “When it's me, they always gonna try to box me. Cause it's me, that's number one... When you're the first to do something, people gonna have an issue with it.” —Rich Paul (60:49)

10. Identity Shift: Podcaster vs. Rapper (63:11–64:49)

• Cam'ron is now mostly recognized as a podcaster, a testament to the success and reach of this new career:

  “Podcast, yeah.” —Cam’ron (63:20)

• Reflecting on Legacy:
  Cam’ron counts “Purple Haze” as his favorite album, marking a high point for himself and the Diplomats.

  “I was in a good space in life with Purple Haze. I just sold a platinum album ... our group and our label was good, so I could just kind of be where I want to be.” —Cam'ron (63:56, 64:10)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “We appreciate you coming on ... I think the best new show to come out that deals with sports in years is 'It Is What It Is'. I think you guys are great.” —Max Kellerman (65:47)
• “He only did one freestyle. I did, like, seven. I want him to do all the freestyles. ... I think we're stronger together.” —Cam'ron on recording with Mase (17:26)
• “You want to hear it? Like, it's supposed to be heard. Especially coming from us, when somebody black like you sit up there and you say, hey, there. I watch Dateline a lot ... Do this nigga talk like this at home?” —Mase (14:03)

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Highlight | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:52 | Cam'ron explains blending authenticity with a professional set | | 08:50 | The deep chemistry between Cam'ron & Mase | | 12:06 | Why Joe Budden is so effective as a podcaster | | 15:12 | “Dumbing it down”—keeping sports talk real | | 17:59 | Jay-Z’s perspective on hip hop maturity | | 22:18 | Hip hop’s shift from labels to social media/TikTok | | 29:41 | New York’s legacy of rapper rankings; lyricist crown | | 31:02 | Age divides and the relevance problem in rap | | 39:01 | Mase’s skepticism about the Knicks’ (and Cleveland/Philly’s) odds | | 43:12 | Cam defends James Dolan’s intentions as Knicks owner | | 47:00 | Mase’s current NBA top five and rationale | | 49:59 | Kyrie Irving’s unmatched flair and appeal | | 52:01 | Athlete reactions to honest media critique | | 56:01 | Frustration with "boxers not fighting each other" | | 60:49 | Rich Paul on breaking barriers as an agent in media | | 63:20 | Cam’ron now recognized more for podcasting than rapping | | 63:56 | “Purple Haze” as Cam’ron’s most personally significant album | | 65:47 | Max salutes “It Is What It Is” as top-tier sports media |

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Tone & Style

The conversation is raw, witty, and familiar—just like the barbershop setting they reference. Cam’ron and Mase swap jokes and inside references, while Max and Rich Paul bring their own industry expertise and playful challenges. Real talk and vulnerability mix with expert industry analysis, reflecting both the entertainers’ and athletes’ deep ties to the culture.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a celebration of authenticity in sports media, the relentless evolution of hip hop and sports talk, and a blueprint for how artists and athletes can redefine themselves while keeping it real. Through stories, debates, and honest laughs, Cam’ron, Mase, Max, and Rich illuminate why their voices—and the cultures they represent—continue to shape the American cultural landscape.

Transcript

[Max Keller]

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[Rich Paul]

Max.

[Max Keller]

Yes, sir.

[Rich Paul]

We got killer on today.

[Max Keller]

Got killer by the way.

[Rich Paul]

And it's on.

[Max Keller]

Yeah, listen. Got the to me that's the best sports show on T but inside the NBA and and it is what it is to me are the best sports shows in media right now.

[Rich Paul]

I'm gonna have to deal with. You don't understand. I actually talked to Cam and Mace.

[Max Keller]

Yeah, off the air. I got you.

[Rich Paul]

Now I have to hear about this?

[Max Keller]

Listen, it is what it is.

[Cam'ron]

I let you just say a lot. I just listen and laugh. Thank you, Max. I appreciate that. Rich.

[Mase]

I don't know what it is with me and him.

[Cam'ron]

He has some things where he feel like he needs to battle me all the time. He comes on my show and told me, yo, where's my gift for raising the ratings on the show? That's why I had to rush to get here to make sure that I returned to favor. Cause I missed when I was supposed to be like, see you getting Hollywood on me. I came and did. Just so you.

[Mase]

You gotta check.

[Cam'ron]

I didn't get a gift. I boost your ratings, et cetera. I'm here. Rich.

[Rich Paul]

Rich is very good. I appreciate you coming.

[Mase]

I'm here.

[Max Keller]

I'm just saying, like, if I. Like, if I. If he sees something that I got on on a Monday show, he, like, you know, he's gonna come official on Wednesday.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that's just. That's called steel sharpening steel. That's not. That's not. You know, we all in the same gang. It's all good. But camp. Listen, we appreciate you coming on.

[Cam'ron]

Come on, cut it out, man. Thank you for having me.

[Rich Paul]

No, seriously, appreciate you coming on. And I do agree with you, Max, when they. When he told me he was doing the show, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Then when he told me he was doing it with Mace, it got even more interesting. But actually, it's great. It's great. Great content.

[Max Keller]

Yeah. What I notice about. And I've told you this a couple times already, but what I notice about you guys, from someone who's, like, a veteran in the sports media industry for, like, almost 30 years now, right, Is that you and Mace showed up a lot of times. You got on suit and ties. I mean, you guys are rappers from New York, so the suit and ties are not, like, for Boardroom. But you're suited. You obviously have a rundown. Like, you have things. It's not just, like, you showed up, hey, we're just gonna mess around and whatever, right? And you talk about sports, right? What made you guys do the show that way?

[Mase]

Well, what happened is the way.

[Cam'ron]

So the way I started off was that everybody's offering me to come on a podcast or start my own podcast, and I really ain't want to have

[Mase]

to talk to people for a living.

[Cam'ron]

Like, I don't want to be having like.

[Mase]

Like.

[Cam'ron]

See, that's why. What makes us so great, as well as what I consider with me and Mace, is that it don't depend on the guests, right? Imagine you have to wait. Yo, we panicking because we can't book nobody. There's a lot of shows that you have to have a guest, and if you don't have a guest. The show isn't lit. You know, I'm not gonna say anybody's name because I appreciate everybody's craft and what they do. But my thing was, I don't have to wait on a guest. I don't have to talk to somebody I don't like. I don't want to have to even talk about shit I don't want to talk about. So I would be on the phone with my friends and be like, arguing about sports. And when I hang up, this said 2 hours and 17 minutes, I've been on the phone arguing with this nigga about basketball or football, whatever the fuck it was for.

[Max Keller]

You doing it for free anyway.

[Mase]

Yeah, doing it for free.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Cam'ron]

So I'm sitting there saying, okay, cool. These people got podcasts in their living room, in their car and whatever. To me, not saying it's sloppy, but it's just like, where are they doing this shit from? And then you look at somebody, like, amazing at Fox Sports or ESPN or whatever, and they got a great set, but it's very corporate. So you got niggas in the crib, who's doing the shit in the kitchen, bathroom?

[Mase]

Then you got corporate.

[Cam'ron]

Where's the medium in that? And that's what I did. So I said, all right, I'm gonna talk how we talk in the barbershop, in the gambling spot, on the corner, on the stoop, wherever you at. And I'm gonna get a professional setting, and then I'm gonna combine the two. So I started this. I built my own set, built my own sound stage in Miami. Tried it out with a few people, and then I invited Mace on, and Mace came and did it. Cause, you know, for people that don't know our history, we speak, we don't speak.

[Mase]

We speak.

[Cam'ron]

We don't speak. And we was on good terms at this time. And he came and did it two shows, and he's like, yo, you wanna go half on this? I'm like, mace, you'll break out when

[Mase]

you wanna break out. Cause he lives by his own rules.

[Cam'ron]

And he's like, nah, I'm serious. I wanna do it. So I did, like, three shows, brought him on. And then ever since then, we just kept going and doing it. But that's what made me do it, Max.

[Mase]

Tired of arguing with my friends on the phone for free.

[Cam'ron]

And then on top of that, I be. I never went to.

[Mase]

I didn't even make D1. I went to junior college.

[Cam'ron]

I tore all my ligaments, my ankle. I actually never even played a game.

[Mase]

Because I redshirted my first year and I feel like I know 100% of basketball. Like I'm some pro and shit.

[Cam'ron]

So we argue all the fucking time about basketball, football, et cetera. But that's what made me do the show.

[Rich Paul]

But prior to that you did. We used to hit me and say, like, why did this make sense? Or what do you think is going to happen here at History? What I think in a real sports, like we really talking basketball and obviously, you know, talent. I mean, you grew up in New York. It's talent on every corner. One of the things I was impressed with was your reach back to other athletes or former athletes that may not have been the first or second or even third choice. Like, one of the guys who I really rock with throughout his entire journey was Maurice Caret. You're going to get Maurice Caret. I know Maurice Caret very well inside of his mom's house when he was a freshman in college, so on and so forth. So when I saw you do that, that to me showed that not only are you creating this, this happy medium of sports and talk, but still being culture centered, but also reaching back to guys that, you know, for whatever reason may not have, may not have been as successful as we, as everyone thought they should have been on the field, but yet, and still still has a great understanding of the game and also being able to just have that mix of humor and witty as well.

[Max Keller]

And just the fact that if you're from New York, like listening to Cam and Mace is like just hearing two kids, you know, from uptown who are hilarious, right? Just chop it up about sport, right? It feels very easy. Like it comes easy, right?

[Mase]

First of all, just being. You gotta realize me and Mace have a. When we're, when our chemistry is like we really knew each other since we was 8, 9 years old. And so we could sit here and do a 10 season episode of us going to high school. You know what I'm saying? 10 episodes, 10 seasons. Because just that period of time was that much fun. And then I realized, Mace, get a record deal at 20 years old.

[Max Keller]

Let's do the cartoon. Come on.

[Cam'ron]

What are we doing?

[Mase]

Yeah, exactly.

[Max Keller]

We're doing Snoop and Martha, right? Let's do was produced.

[Mase]

Put it together.

[Rich Paul]

Who? Cam and Mace.

[Max Keller]

Cam and Mace growing up together.

[Rich Paul]

That'd be hilarious.

[Mase]

Yeah, put it together. But I'm just saying, like, you make a long story, Shaq, what you just said, super duper easy.

[Cam'ron]

And then back to what you just

[Mase]

said, Rich, as far as Maurice Claret is concerned I was in Columbus where Maurice Colette was super duper low.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, I forgot about that.

[Mase]

Yeah, yeah. So watching his journey, then watching him crash out, and it's like, bro, I'm

[Cam'ron]

talking about during Ohio State, and we, you know, God blessed that my man

[Mase]

Chubby, that was his man, too.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. And my man.

[Mase]

Yeah, yeah. And we're sitting there saying, bro, you gotta chill out. But he didn't chill out. But then his story after not making it really is more impressive than him not going pro. And people don't see that side of him because you don't get that type of redemption story. It's not just about what he does on it is what it is. It's all the other shit that he does outside of not making it to be a professional, you know, he's still living super good. He's buying hotels, dropping culinaries, everything.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I talked to him when he was incarcerated. He'll tell you, like, I did not pick up the phone right when he called me or somebody called me, I answered and did whatever he asked me to do. But with that being said, so there's other rappers that are now in the space, and, you know, you got Joe Budden. You have Noriega with Drink Champs. You have now Joe and Jada. Why do you think those shows are. Why do you think shows are successful or at least those shows are successful? What makes the show successful from these former rappers like yourself and others?

[Mase]

Well, when you talk about Joe Buttons and Noriega, they've been doing this way longer than me, you know what I'm saying? I'm late to the party when it comes to those two guys. And they obviously seen the vision before. A lot of rappers may have seen the vision or people that's podcasting in general. It was like when I.

[Cam'ron]

When I found out about podcasts and

[Mase]

doing my sports show, I was like, oh, these niggas been hiding the money, you know? So that's how I felt about it, because I'm still like, oh, I'm a rapper. I could get in the booth or I could go, whatever. I could make money, do a show, whatever. Yeah, a multitude of ways. But what happens is this. I think that we're in a time when they knew before us or me. I should say that people want to hear people talk and tell stories and so on and so forth. But I think their show is successful. So Noriega, right. His show is based upon guests, and he gets a lot of really good guests because his relationship and gets them

[Max Keller]

open because they're drinking, right?

[Mase]

Because, genius, I went on his show and wouldn't drink. I said, I know what you're up to. I'm not slurring my words. I'm not doing anything. So I actually didn't drink when I

[Cam'ron]

went on his show.

[Mase]

And it's still killer. Was a great episode. Joe Buttons, I can't tell you what he has. Not saying he doesn't have something because he's special. I'm just saying it's him. It isn't like he has a bunch of celebrities. He makes the people on his show celebrity. I think that he knew the niche and mastered it. You know, he doesn't have a bunch of sponsors. He doesn't have a. He's not reading commercials. Every 10, 15 minutes, he's going out there kicking ass. You know, puts his stuff on. What's it called now? Joe Budden Patreon. There you go. Thank you, guys. He has his stuff on Patreon to where now, if you're paying whatever amount of money a month, he's making close to $20 million a year because he has subscribers and they're loyal to his fan base. So he's mastered this shit. You know, they call him the Pod father.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Mase]

You know what I'm saying? So rightfully so.

[Rich Paul]

He is the pod.

[Mase]

Yeah. So you got to give a lot of credit to Joe Buttons because he's seen this before. A lot of people seen it.

[Max Keller]

You know what I noticed about the sports talk industry, and this probably goes to news talk, too, which I did briefly, is it's a lot like the rap game in the sense that who's gonna spit the flyest shit? Right? That's what it comes down to. You have. Just like in hip hop, you have MCs, right? That's flavor. Or you have lyricists, or you have some combination of both. And you see that transfer from hip hop to the podcast space. Even when it's about sports, you and Mace just say a bunch of shit people want to hear.

[Mase]

Cause you know what it is.

[Max Keller]

So does Joe and Jada.

[Mase]

Right, right, right. I tried, actually, when I first started doing the show, before I even knew Mace would be a part of it, I went to Jada to try. Cause I know he knew sports as well to try and get it. But it just never panned out. But I think even the dynamic with Mason, us being childhood friends, I want to ask for a better scenario. I just didn't think that Mace would

[Cam'ron]

want to do it.

[Mase]

And I'm happy that he did do it, but it's like this Max and Rich. You got somebody who could play sports, right? Play basketball their whole life, but they don't know how to sell it. When it's time to come up here and talk about basketball, you got somebody who, being a Hall of Fame football player, but they boring as fuck. When it's time to talk about it. When it's time to talk about it, you want to hear it? Like, it's supposed to be heard. Especially coming from us, when somebody black like you sit up there and you say, hey, there. I watch Dateline a lot, right? It's this nigga on Dateline, like, do you think that he murdered him? I'm like, do this nigga talk like this at home? You know what I'm saying?

[Cam'ron]

Is that really him?

[Mase]

Well, when he comes in the house, and I'll be like, yo, I really want to know what this nigga look sounds like at home. But when you're natural and you're regularly talking to people, people feel more like, okay, they're being honest. They're being cool. When I first started my show before Mace came on, I had my old high school coach, basketball coach, do the show with me. Cause he was real knowledgeable on basketball. He couldn't handle the lights. Shout out to my coach Dave, you know, he couldn't handle the lights when the cameras go off. He wouldn't say nothing. I'd be like, yo, you think Aaron Rodgers is good? You're like, yeah, elaborate. N. But when the cameras go off, he'll go crazy. I'm like, yo, do that shit when the camera's on. We need it when the camera's on. But I think that the way we dumbed it down in the beginning, you know, we gonna give you analytics, we gonna give you stats, we gonna give you box scores. But we boil it down to, yo, is Aaron Rodgers good or he ain't shit. Yo, that nigga ain't shit. He ain't making the Super bowl in 11 since 2011. Yada. Like, will dumb even just saying that.

[Max Keller]

That's more interesting than 11. I'd rather hear that a lot of Stu.

[Mase]

And that's what we say. We not gonna say we'll give you the numbers if we need to, but we gonna be like, yo, my nigga, he ain't making the Super bowl of 50. Cause that's what they're arguing about.

[Rich Paul]

You're not trying to be perfect. It's raw.

[Mase]

Exactly.

[Rich Paul]

Now, when you talk about what you and Mace have been able to do, what you also do is you Also kind of dip back in your bag of where the foundation started. And you give us a freestyle every now and then. Now, how competitive does that get? Do y' all know? Like. Okay, come on.

[Max Keller]

When Mace came with that. When Mace. When Mace came with that verse, what was it? I mean, he was. He killed it.

[Rich Paul]

I played it.

[Max Keller]

Feel like, yo, I gotta come back, right?

[Mase]

No, no, Camp.

[Max Keller]

Stop.

[Mase]

No Camp. No, listen, man, let me tell y', all, son. This is.

[Cam'ron]

This is a dead honest truth, right?

[Mase]

I did, like, four freestyles at that point. I fought for him to do this. You don't even know the wrestling match that was in the studio. I'm not going to do it. I said, mace, please. I'm begging him to do it. I'm, like, literally begging him. And even after he did, he's like, nah, don't air it. And I'm like, mace, you got to air it. You got to air it, bro. Like, don't air.

[Max Keller]

Best verses I heard in years, period.

[Mase]

I'm not in a competition with him. I'm rooting for him. I want yo, you know, right now in my phone. I could play 20 mace songs you never hear. You'd be like, yo, Mace might be top two rappers ever right now. Right now. But until he's comfortable with the world hearing him rap, I can only listen to it in my car. Y' all are missing out.

[Max Keller]

Mace. Mace, stop fucking around.

[Mase]

Just release it.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, I hear about it. Yeah.

[Max Keller]

Just release it.

[Mase]

Yeah, but I'm not competitive. Moral story is that shit don't get competitive. He only did one freestyle. I did, like, seven. I want him to do all the freestyles. To be honest with you, it's like. It's like, so. Like the movie. The movie. And it's cliche. Cause I'm kind of in the movie. Paid in full. You see how happy A was for when Rich came home and we was like, yo, here. That's how I feel with Mason. I want him to be that nigga. You know what I'm saying? So I'm never in no competition with him. I think we're stronger together.

[Max Keller]

What do you think about Jay Z saying the Kendrick Drake beef was bad for hip hop?

[Mase]

I think that Jay Z, you know what it is a lot of times, and I have to realize this for myself, not that I'm nowhere near Jay Z's level, is that when you mature and you get to a certain level, you think everybody's getting there because you and your crew are getting there, right? Like me and my niggas. Yo, we make hundreds of millions. I'm making a billion. My man got 100 million. And so you're. You and your friends, your immediate friends are growing, and you think that the rest of the people your age are growing. And that may not necessarily be the case that everybody's not growing. You know what I'm saying? I remember Russell, Russell Simmons said, yo, we need to stop saying nigga so much. I'm like, yeah. Cause you made $400 million by niggas saying nigga on your label. You had Onyx, you had motherfucking Red, man. You had all these motherfuckers saying nigga. And then you cashed out the universal. Grab 400 million. Be like, yo, we say a too much. Everybody ain't grabbed 400 million, Russ. So sometime when you grow and the people around you growing and you be like, I don't think that's necessary. It's not necessarily the way the rest of the world is thinking. Because Jay Z, he had beef with. Not saying beef with everybody, but he did a lot of beefs. You know, Jay Z beef with Nas. He says slick shit about 50 Cent, me, Jim Jones. Jay Z is real calculated, and he's one of the best rappers ever. It depends on what's your taste. But I just think that he's growing year after year after year after year. And he's like, yo, he's in a

[Max Keller]

place where most people. And not only that, but then people coming up haven't experienced any of that yet.

[Mase]

Right, exactly. And probably never will. You have a lot of people who never will experience where he. What he experienced. Like, you got to think about this. Him and Juan's my guy. Like, Juan's from Harlem. You know what I'm saying? So the things that they accomplished in life is some fantasy turned reality shit.

[Cam'ron]

You don't.

[Mase]

You don't. This shit don't really happen.

[Rich Paul]

That's a fact.

[Max Keller]

Yeah, like rappers. Rappers have been. Rappers have been rapping, like, since. Since Special Ed about.

[Rich Paul]

But I know what he's saying about,

[Max Keller]

like, the fantasy and Jay Z actually did it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but. But there's a whole nother step to that. I mean, Cam has done it himself. But when you transition, and I just told you this the other day, sometimes you do things with people and it's like, was that even real?

[Mase]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

And if you. And if you told somebody you did that, they wouldn't believe you.

[Mase]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

But when you start. When you start doing what people wouldn't even believe one time all the time, that's a whole other spectrum of life that you can be a part of. But in addition to that, I think when you talk about sometimes things can go too far. Right. Whether you're on the basketball floor, if me and you get into an issue on the basketball court, that shouldn't spill over to the buses.

[Mase]

Absolutely.

[Rich Paul]

Or it shouldn't spill over to someone's family, et cetera. So I understand. But the only difference in music, though, some, you know, like, it's words and there's no rules. It's a game. There's no refs in that game. But what I wanted to ask you, Cam, you grew up in a time where, man, it was a. I mean, to, to become a rapper in the era that you came up in. First of all, just within your. You and Mace were friends at 8, 9 years old. But then Big L, then you may go down the street or to the next borough and you got these guys. You got Delox, you got dmx, you got Fat Joe. Then you go over to Brooklyn and you got Jay Biggie. Then you go to Queens, you got Nas, Nori, you got Mobb Deep. When you look at today's landscape of rap music versus yesterday's and, and, and realizing that, hey, these guys actually has it a lot better, there's more information. They don't necessarily need a label to be successful. You could put out music on your own time, anytime, everywhere, and it hits everybody. What do you feel like was the good and the bad of that? Because there, there, there was a lot of good that came out for you because we had to. You put out an album, somebody will be like, 90 days, I'm listening to this whole album. I'm live with it. They don't really live with the music. So how do you view it today?

[Mase]

Steve Stouts with saying that now, like, how it's more famous people than talented people. And it's because you could be a TikTok star and have a hit record and it could go away. And because you're famous. But how talented are you? You know, I see him in Stephen A. Smith going back and forth about that. But it's pretty interesting conversation to watch. To me, I can't be mad at the technology, right? And you have. People my age will be like, yo, if we had that, we would have did what we didn't. You know, you gotta let people grow up in their time. We have our moderator on our show. Stat on, stat, baby. On our show, she's 24 years old and, and we'd be like, yo, remember when boys and her coming out she's like, actually, I don't remember when Boys and her came out.

[Rich Paul]

She didn't see the ties with the jean shorts, right?

[Mase]

Yeah, exactly.

[Rich Paul]

She didn't see that.

[Mase]

And every, every time it was to the point she didn't see Friday. We like, nah, nah, nah, wait a minute.

[Max Keller]

The world keeps on spinning, man.

[Rich Paul]

Friday.

[Mase]

Yeah, we had to give her a list of things to watch Thursday.

[Max Keller]

You know,

[Mase]

you gotta think Friday comes out in 1995. She's born in 2001. So it's a lot of things that she hasn't seen. I bought that. Reason I brought that up is to answer your question. It's like you had to get a record deal when you was talking about was a big deal to get a record deal. A really, really big deal. And it wasn't easy getting a record deal. We had to go to Jack the Rapper. We had to go to pause. We had to go to a bunch of different conventions. We had to kiss ass at the radio stations. You have to put poster boards up, have a street team to wear because it wasn't on any phones. You have to have posters go up on the highway so people know street

[Rich Paul]

team was a big deal, right?

[Mase]

Absolutely. You had to go state to state and do all this stuff to where like you just said, rich, everything is in your phone now. But I can't be mad at technology. You got somebody right now, right? And that's why I thought this conversation, what Steve Stout was saying was very interesting, right? When he's like, you got people who have no talent versus famous people. And what if somebody famous ended up being talented, right? Because I didn't start following Cardi B in the beginning for her music. I thought she was entertaining on social media, right? Oh, she's funny. Look how this chick eating corn, she eating corn laying outside. I just left the strip club on top of her car, made a bunch of money tonight pouring gas in her car half naked. I said, oh, she's very fucking interesting. But now she's selling out concerts and doing tours and selling multimillion millions albums. So what's the reverse of that? Could you be famous and then be talented? Even though somebody may help a write the rhymes, Whatever. You still gotta deliver. You still got to deliver.

[Rich Paul]

No, you still have to deliver it.

[Mase]

Yeah, absolutely. So that's why I thought that conversation interesting.

[Rich Paul]

I thought style was spot on with that, right? But what that gave you was it gave you optionality because prior to that, prior to you becoming famous, you, you had to have your talent identified.

[Max Keller]

You had to be famous for a reason.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but you were famous through the talent.

[Mase]

But that's why I brought up Cardi B. Yeah. What was the talent before her? Getting famous.

[Rich Paul]

No. Yeah, right. But also back in the day, we didn't have that optionality of seeing her with a platform and seeing the side of her that actually made her famous. The content and her relatability and connecting to people through the content is what made her. It gave her notoriety that grew to become popularity and then that popularity grew to fame. And on the back end of that, she was actually could deliver a record.

[Max Keller]

It turns out she was talented.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, she was extremely talented and still is.

[Mase]

Yeah. But the point being is, do you know Cardi b in the 90s? Because you don't have that technology.

[Max Keller]

No, that's what I'm saying.

[Rich Paul]

That's why you're saying you have to accept it. Because you can't get mad at them for having a technology.

[Mase]

For having the technology.

[Rich Paul]

By the way, think how much money you would have saved if you didn't have to spend your budget on studio time.

[Mase]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

And I could put that money in my pocket. And I'm recording right here off of my iPhone or my MacBook.

[Mase]

100% absolutely correct.

[Rich Paul]

Because I was in baseline plenty of nights with. With different rooms and Kanye was in the B room and Jess Blaze was in the A room and guys going back and forth. It was. It was crazy.

[Max Keller]

Listen, back then, even to get put on, you had to figure out how you were going to pay an engineer, whatever they needed to just go with your boy and, and. And track down.

[Rich Paul]

But just being in those buildings because we was there. I used to come out out of Def Jam and it'd be 50 people trying to hand you a tape. Then you had the street team meetings and it was a real machine. But then you had the different departments and like a guy like Michael Kaiser, you had to get to him so him to work your record at the radio station.

[Mase]

Yes, sir.

[Rich Paul]

All these things. Then you got this street team. It was a different animal then versus now. Now you have a manager, you the talent, and y' all go. Prior to that, you had to have all these different checkpoints.

[Max Keller]

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[Max Keller]

Being from New York, there was always two different kind of lists, right? There was whoever was the most popular rapper or right. Who sold the most records, who was the. But there was also always in New York, a crown for the lyricist, right? Like so G Rap was never, you know, selling the most records. But G Rap had the crown. It was between Rock, him and G Rap, right? And then it was Nas and then you.

[Cam'ron]

Or if you want to argue, Big Daddy Kane.

[Max Keller]

Yeah, Kane was. But Kane was selling the records, right?

[Rich Paul]

And he had the popular.

[Max Keller]

Yeah, and he had the popularity too. Who has the crown right now as

[Rich Paul]

far as rappers in New York or no, no, period.

[Max Keller]

In hip hop, not the most popular one. But who is? Who's the best mc?

[Mase]

G Rock was my favorite rapper. You know, I had a really bad list growing up and he rapped with a list like I was. I had such a bad list I had to go to speech therapy when I was like 6, 7 years old. He's my favorite rapper.

[Max Keller]

Everyone's favorite. When G Rap used to drop if, like if you had Bad to the bone on a mixtape, you would rip up your rhymes and start. G Rap would come out with a song. Everyone would Start over again.

[Mase]

Yeah, G. Rap was my favorite.

[Cam'ron]

Who has the crown right now as

[Mase]

far as hip hop?

[Cam'ron]

I don't know.

[Mase]

I don't have an answer for that. Because, you know, another thing that's going on is that they're trying to put an age limit on hip hop too. So you have people be like, the

[Cam'ron]

last few things I seen, they'll try

[Mase]

and talk about Jay Z's relevance. Oh, nobody young knows Jay Z. Nobody know. Yo, how come it gotta be a young old thing when it comes to music? When it comes to rap music, you know, Bruce Springsteen is still touring. You guys still tour.

[Rich Paul]

All the rock bands, all the rock

[Mase]

band, everybody is still touring. But you got younger generation.

[Rich Paul]

And how about if you don't know Jay Z, get to know him as well as other artists, you might learn something.

[Mase]

Absolutely.

[Rich Paul]

Go back the album, you got itunes. The music is there, right there. If you don't know, if you only know Cam and Mace from it is what it is. Go back and listen to sde, go back and listen to Confessions of Fire. Go back and listen to Harlem World. You might learn something.

[Mase]

This is a fact. I like that. I like what Zion said. Zion Wilson, he said his favorite album is Ready to Die Biggie, right?

[Rich Paul]

Could you miss that?

[Mase]

Exactly. Good pick.

[Rich Paul]

That's a good pick.

[Cam'ron]

It's a great pick.

[Mase]

But this goes to show what you're saying. He wasn't even born right when the album came out.

[Rich Paul]

But think about it. You have the ability to. You have the ability within minutes to go back.

[Max Keller]

Even in sports, you see like kids making reels now where they. Where they watch clips of MJ or Vince Carter or whoever and react, just react to it.

[Mase]

So you feel like that. But as far as who has a crowd, it's hard to say because I'm not in tune with music like as far as I used to be. And like I said, back to stats credit. To her credit, she'll put me onto some new rappers that I don't know about.

[Rich Paul]

They come out every day.

[Mase]

Yeah, this is the one. Yo, Cam, this is the new dance. This is the new dance.

[Rich Paul]

My son and daughter are the same way and they move on so fast.

[Mase]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

But here's what I think we should do, Max, because we're being robbed. We had the symphony. We all in the same game. Self destruction. We need another one of those. We need to put all these. Forget all this. Put all these artists on one record.

[Mase]

But see, that's the question. Which artists? The young artists, the old artists. Who's messing with Who. Because you got smoothies.

[Rich Paul]

How about you do it? Put them in a blender.

[Mase]

Yeah, make a smoothie. I wouldn't mind what you saying. I think that's great, but it'd be so many egos. You get what I'm saying? You gotta. I don't even know who's cool with who, who's mad at who today, who's cool with who, who's not speaking on

[Rich Paul]

I know who's cool with who.

[Mase]

I had J Cole on my show. J Cole.

[Cam'ron]

Shout out to J. Cole.

[Mase]

He apologized to Kendrick with the Beef. Him and Drake was doing songs together. Then I was asking about his relationship with both of them. He said, I don't know. We haven't spoken to each other. I don't know where I stand with anybody. I don't know.

[Rich Paul]

That's unfortunate.

[Mase]

Very unfortunate.

[Rich Paul]

Cause let me tell you why. Right now, in la, right now, you know what's here? The milking conference. And ain't nobody beefing at the milking conference. You know what they're doing? They're. They're educating, right? They're. They're inciting you, giving insightful strategy on what's coming next, what's happening now, what happened yesterday and why it made sense or why it didn't make sense. And then what's happening tomorrow and where you should be positioning yourself at, because you know what's happening. They're compounding while we're competing. And, you know, when two men have an issue, you know what I do? I mind my business. That's first and foremost. I don't pick sides. I'm not trying to be in nothing, you know, because isn't there something in rap?

[Max Keller]

Especially just because of how it grew. And the reason there's such an overlap with sports is. Cause it's like. It's competitive. Yes, but Max, it's always been, like, started out like you'll hire me for, you know. Yeah, but you don't think I'm nicer on the mic. I'm nice on the turntables than him?

[Rich Paul]

You don't think private equity is competitive?

[Max Keller]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Rich Paul]

This is my point. This is what I always tell the athletes. Yes, you're competing between the lines, but what you should be doing is collaborating outside to be. If. If I made 250 million and you made 250 million and he made 250 million. Right.

[Max Keller]

I like where you're going with this. I don't know where, but I like.

[Rich Paul]

You think I give a shit who's scoring 30 a night. Hey, man, when we leave this game, yo, meet me over here. Let's conversate. I got a guy coming who has a wealth of knowledge and wealth of experience. And we make it. We make it. Play some. Some. Some dollars with them and this is their track record, so on and so forth. You hobnobbing with all the owners, you're going to the white parties, you're doing all this thing. How are you compounding your positioning? How are you compounding your wealth?

[Max Keller]

So you mess with rich. It always comes down to business.

[Rich Paul]

What else is it about?

[Max Keller]

Always. Golf business.

[Rich Paul]

If it is, yes. Me and Cam talk all the time. What do you think we talk about?

[Cam'ron]

I'm not mad at.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying.

[Mase]

I love money, too.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, but, but, but my. My thing is. Look at that. Not only about money. My thing is. Again, you have. I come from a place where we had no access. I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio. I couldn't go down to 5th Avenue or Madison Avenue and just window shop. I had to dream very big. There is no Fifth Avenue. You get what I'm saying?

[Max Keller]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

So to get to this point and not take advantage of that because you're competing about some shit that probably don't even matter as much as you think.

[Max Keller]

It's proximity to what you need. And you can't get together and let's

[Rich Paul]

sell out these stadiums. Let's not just own the hard ticket sales, but let's figure out a way to build a portfolio where we're getting the pieces of sponsorship, we're getting the pieces of parking, we're getting the pieces of merch, we're getting a piece from a content strategy.

[Mase]

It depends on. And what you're saying is not wrong. I think everything you're saying is 100% correct. But it depends about how important it is to the rappers and who needs it. You got to think about the most successful rappers the majority needed. Money didn't come from rapping. So when you sitting there saying. When you sitting there saying, let's put a concert together.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but you talk about, like, three people.

[Mase]

Yeah, no, I'm talking about people who still make a lot of money who'd be like, I don't need the headache.

[Cam'ron]

Depends on.

[Rich Paul]

Well, yeah.

[Mase]

Depends on where your mentality is.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, well, if the shit is bigger than the cat, you gotta get rid of the cat. I agree with you on that, but what I'm saying is, again, when you talking about. This all boils down to Cam, what we did just by proximity or it was Just a. It was just a natural. It was evergreen. No matter what somebody had or didn't have, you listened to them because of their life experience.

[Mase]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

When you walked outside your door on your stoop. Yo, Cam, don't do that. Whether that was a wino, a drug addict, or Ms. Johnson from two doors down, you listen. That's what the fight is really about. We're making money. But money don't make you money shouldn't allow you not to continue to evolve and continue to be molded. Right?

[Mase]

Absolutely.

[Rich Paul]

That shouldn't be the case.

[Mase]

No. But see, the thing about it is this, right? What you're saying is 100% correct. But you're talking about rappers.

[Rich Paul]

About everybody, but yes. Rappers. Yes. We talking about rappers. Yes.

[Mase]

Putting the concert together. So that's what I'm talking about. The song I'm not talking about.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, you're right.

[Mase]

Yeah, yeah. Everybody doesn't have that mindset. And when you're talking about putting together and you're right, it's about three, four people who made a billion dollars or

[Rich Paul]

where you don't have to worry about money.

[Mase]

Exactly. Everybody doesn't have that same mindset when it comes to rapping. And then if you're making enough money, even if you're not making a half a billion dollars, you may make enough money to be like, I don't need that headache. That's why I say there has to be a group of people who really care about what they're doing.

[Rich Paul]

Well, let's keep it at that.

[Mase]

Group.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, let's keep it at that.

[Mase]

Well, you put it together.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. If it's six people, okay, great. Who you got in the East? Does the Knicks come out to East?

[Mase]

No, I could be trusted in the east, bro. Nobody. Like, listen, it goes like this, right? You can't trust Cleveland. How many games they won last year? They came in first. They won 9 million games last year. In the regular season, Donovan Mitchell hasn't been past the second round. James Harden, they say that he starts making reservations around Game 6, 7 of the conference finals for the strip club. He can't be trusted. Now, the Knicks, I'm half century old. I haven't seen them whenever. I don't care if you go get Patrick Riley, the coach. I don't care if you get Phil Jackson to be the gm. I don't care if it's Bernard King. I don't care if it's Patrick Ewing. I don't care if it's Anthony Hardaway. I don't care if it's Isaiah Thomas. I don't care if it's Carmelo Anthony. I have not seen the Knicks win ever. So I can't put my stock into them. Do they have the team that could come out the East? Absolutely. I do think the team. They are the best team in the East. But I've seen this movie before. I'm not falling for the banana.

[Rich Paul]

So getting to the finals is not enough for the Knicks?

[Mase]

Well, thing about it is this, right? You got Tom Thibodeau there, and you say, oh, we got rid of him. He's running the players into the ground and injured baton, so on and so forth, yada yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, whatever. So you really bringing Mike Browning to win five games because you was one game away from the championship and you only take four to win. So you get rid of, like, for me if I don't like.

[Rich Paul]

That makes a lot of sense right there, Cam. I never even thought about it that way.

[Mase]

I make a lot of sense. More so

[Max Keller]

in five more games. I mean, keep it simple.

[Cam'ron]

Yeah.

[Mase]

You bring Mike Brown in to win five games. If I don't like you, Max, and I don't like you Rich, and we have a hit show and we making a bunch of money, I'm gonna come to work and just.

[Rich Paul]

Absolutely.

[Mase]

Yo, I ain't got time for no ego. If we doing stuff.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Mase]

Well, now, if it's messing with my mental health, my blood, then I can't do it. But if you're going to win a championship every year, Tom Thibodeau was there. They went further. And the New York fan base is just ridiculous. You get to the Eastern Conference championship and they start naming streets after people called Anthony, Town Square, Jalen, Brunson Avenue.

[Rich Paul]

That really happened?

[Mase]

Yes, that really, really happened.

[Max Keller]

You know, because they're so desperate.

[Rich Paul]

Come on, now. Now, I'm not believing this is where the show goes wrong. I'm not believing any of that.

[Max Keller]

It happened.

[Mase]

I've been in New York.

[Rich Paul]

I didn't see it.

[Max Keller]

No, it happened. It was temporary, but it happened.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, it was temporary. Okay, okay. I was saying. Wait a minute.

[Mase]

No, but it was on the streets. This is for East.

[Max Keller]

Wait, is it still there?

[Mase]

No, no, no, no, no, no. But better not. This is for reaching the Eastern Conference finals. Not even getting to the championship. You light up the Empire State building blue and all this dumb, but, yeah, I can't yo them piss me off. No, no, I don't trust.

[Max Keller]

What do you think? What do you think?

[Mase]

I trust nobody in the east right now. But if anybody has the best chance, it should be the Knicks. But the Knicks have problems with Detroit this season. They lose by average of 25 points. So if Detroit makes it in, the Knicks.

[Rich Paul]

Because where Detroit matches up well with the Knicks. They're tough. Yeah, they're tough.

[Mase]

Well, you know, they got the best

[Max Keller]

player on the floor, and they got

[Rich Paul]

the best player on the floor.

[Cam'ron]

Yeah.

[Max Keller]

So. So where are you? So I was done with Dolan and therefore the Knicks. When he had Oakley taken out of msg, that was it for me. You know, Like, I. I stood online where you had to wait around the block in the middle of the night. You had to get there the date the night before to get playoff tickets. Because Oakley is diving on the. On the hardwood for the. The loose balls, right? Like. And then he has Oakley. That's like, if Steinbrenner had, like, Bernie Williams or Paul o' Neill taken out of Yankee Stadium, it would never happen, right? And then, since then, it's come out. Pablo Torre had it on. Pablo Torre finds out that Dolan is surveilling fans when they're using facial recognition and having security teams follow people around the Garden and stuff like that. Where are you with Dolan and the Knicks?

[Mase]

I don't have a problem with James Dolan. Everybody who's a Knicks fan has a problem with James Dolan. I understand your argument with Charles Oakley. I didn't like that Shaniva. And it didn't look good just the way they wrestled him out of there. But what the fuck you want James Dolan to do? He's a Wall street guy. He tries to hire the people that, quote, unquote, know basketball, and then they don't do the job. Look, man, you want, like, I just named. You want Pat Riley? Get Pat Riley. You want fucking Isiah Thomas getting Isaiah Thomas? Should we pay Carmelo Anthony? Pay Carmelo Anthony. Phil Jackson. Cool. Even though Phil Jackson's off in fucking Wyoming doing whatever with Jeanie Buss. Yo, pay him anyway. He's supposed to be the basketball guru.

[Max Keller]

Yeah. He'll spend money.

[Mase]

He'll spend the money. So, I don't know.

[Max Keller]

I mean, the culture. When a fish rots from the head down, if you have a culture, it's paranoid because I've dealt with, when I was doing radio in New York years ago that, you know, I've dealt with different teams. Like the Lakers, easy to deal with compared to the Knicks. When I hear people complain about dealing with the Lakers, I'm like, you gotta be kidding. You never dealt with the Knicks.

[Rich Paul]

But when you talk about an owner, Max, like, for me, I don't really care about any of that. I care about two things. Are you willing to pay the tax and the repeater tax.

[Max Keller]

He is.

[Rich Paul]

Right. So if you are, then what Cam goes back to is now it just comes about identifying the right decision makers because we made all these decisions, and. And there's different reasons for whatever reasons that they were made, and none of it has led to us being successful, so.

[Mase]

And he's not an owner. Not the control for which I apologize.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, you.

[Mase]

He's not a Jerry Jones in the camera every minute type owner. You know what I'm saying?

[Rich Paul]

He allows you to do your job, which is all you can ask for.

[Mase]

That's all you can ask for. But, you know, we had this argument on my show with my homegirl. She's one of our analysts, Arabia.

[Cam'ron]

She's.

[Mase]

She's a big Commander Strand. I didn't want to call him the wrong name. Big Commander Strand. And once they own the left, was the owner that just left.

[Rich Paul]

Snyder.

[Mase]

Snyder. The organization started looking better. See, Cam, this is what I'm trying to tell you about the Knicks. So you have people who have that mindset to say it starts from the head down, but I just don't see what James Dolan does wrong.

[Rich Paul]

Nah, I think I'm rolling with Dolan.

[Max Keller]

I mean, there's one constant on the Knicks, like half a century, right? I was half a century a couple years ago. I'm still waiting on the first one. Yeah, but those are two in my lifetime.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, but those are two separate things.

[Max Keller]

Listen, listen.

[Mase]

I'll tell you this much, right? I see him say he's not giving up the team. He's going to give it to his kids. So great. So for people that's in there hoping that one day he gives it up. He just recently said it on his players podcast. On Josh and Jalen's podcast, he said, no, I'm never giving the team.

[Rich Paul]

I think James Doe's a good owner, man. I don't. I never. I never.

[Mase]

New York fans.

[Rich Paul]

No, I do now.

[Mase]

New York fans be mad.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not from New York.

[Max Keller]

He's sending surveillance. If you're on social media and you post something negative about him and then you show up at the Garden, he's using facial recognition to have his surveillance.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, that has nothing to do with

[Max Keller]

me in terms of as an agent. Maybe not. Because you'll spend money.

[Mase]

Let me ask you a question, Max. Like when you and I'm just asking. I don't know how you carry it. Like when you on your social media, when people say negative stuff about you, you block them or you just say fuck it.

[Rich Paul]

Nah, I don't block them.

[Mase]

Yeah, Me, I block them. So get out my house, too. Get out the garden.

[Cam'ron]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Everybody's different. That's what I'm saying. Everybody's different.

[Mase]

If you're a sports owner, people are

[Max Keller]

going to have opinions about your team and your team.

[Rich Paul]

That's the point of sports. I get it.

[Mase]

That's true.

[Rich Paul]

Cam, give me your top five in the league right now.

[Mase]

Players or teams?

[Rich Paul]

Players.

[Mase]

In no order. I'll tell you what.

[Rich Paul]

In no order.

[Mase]

Yeah, no order. Sga, Joker, Luca, when he's healthy. I don't know what I'm doing with Giannis, man.

[Cam'ron]

I don't.

[Mase]

He disappointed me the last few seasons. Couple seasons. I'll throw him in there, though, sga,

[Rich Paul]

because I'm trying to get Luka Joker,

[Mase]

SGA to have an American something with Wemby. Wemby, I'm seeing. I'm bugging Wemby, too. I'm bugging. All right, there we go. Thank you, Max. So we got Wemby. We got one. I'm going to go with our position. We got SGA and Luca in the back court. We got Wemby and the Joker.

[Max Keller]

So.

[Rich Paul]

So that's getting one more.

[Max Keller]

Yay. Basically.

[Mase]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You know, you need one more.

[Mase]

That's only four.

[Max Keller]

Honest. Or is it Ant?

[Mase]

That's my question right there.

[Max Keller]

The way Ants looking.

[Mase]

I'm going with ant over Giannis until

[Max Keller]

further notice the fact that he came back and played.

[Mase]

Yeah.

[Max Keller]

And his leg went the wrong way. Like a week.

[Rich Paul]

Football player.

[Max Keller]

Yeah.

[Mase]

Nah. But.

[Rich Paul]

And could have went to the NFL.

[Max Keller]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

I guarantee you if he would have focused on football, he. And I know what NFL players are going to say. I'm not. What I'm saying is his physical traits and his athletic ability and his quick tw twitch. He's from Georgia. I'm pretty sure he played football primarily as a young kid.

[Max Keller]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

As well as basketball.

[Max Keller]

He's showing something right now.

[Rich Paul]

Given that, all things considered, he went through the process of a normal football player, he probably would have been successful as a football player as well.

[Max Keller]

Where are you, cuz? You guys, you know, real quick.

[Mase]

Just to add on to that. Right. You. You probably 100% correct. You think you killed him with the moccasins? I ain't see the moccasins. I ain't seen them since Cardinal Hayes, man. Listen I just peeped that. But as far as what you said with Ant man, right, you have to give credit where credit is due. Because people call out cause they pinky hurt. Yo, I gotta my toenail.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Hyper extended knee.

[Mase]

Yeah.

[Max Keller]

So you saw it?

[Rich Paul]

I did see it. I couldn't see it again. Didn't wanna watch it.

[Mase]

You got somebody calling out to get their nails painted. Literally. Ant Man's coming back after hyperson and hyper extend his knee and a bone bruise. KD ain't play cause of a bone bruise. And Ant man did. And shout out to kd. That's my brother. I'm not trying to start no shit. But I'm just saying it's a serious injury. So just his toughness. He's playing with two fucked up legs.

[Max Keller]

No question. I agree just on the fact that just what you just said to me elevates him to top five. Like if there's a close call, what he's doing, just coming back and playing.

[Rich Paul]

You don't have to. You don't have to sell me on it. Who's your favorite to watch though? You named your top five, but who's your favorite to watch?

[Mase]

Kyrie Irving when he's healthy. There's no other player that I want to pick. Kyrie Irving just box or his game. Look, it's nobody else. Better dribbler. And not only that, for his height, the way he finishes around the basket, layup package. It's crazy, bro. I miss Kyrie all season. That's absolutely my favorite player to watch.

[Max Keller]

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[Max Keller]

Where are you right now? So when people say, like, oh, that show was like the barbershop, right? What they're really saying, what was the argument? Always in the barbershop came down to boxing and basketball. Right. That dominant. And then more recent years, it's more like quarterbacks and stuff like that, but it's usually boxing and basketball. And you get into the fights on your show and you've worked fights.

[Mase]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Max Keller]

Where you. I know there was some beef with Shakur Stevenson, because you guys said he was boring.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Keller]

Where are you with Shakur right now?

[Mase]

I haven't spoken to him, but I don't have a problem with Shakur. Like, you know, we do stuff that's entertaining. I think what happens is. And I'm learning this is that. And I can't say this for Shakur. I'm just saying in general, because it isn't just Shakur. A lot of athletes are getting mad because we're saying our opinion. And what I'm saying is that we're just an extension of the barbershop or the ghetto or wherever, urban America. And I think that it means more when they come comes from us. So when it comes from us, as opposed to somebody on ESPN or FS1, they'll take more offense of it. I remember I said, that's respecting.

[Max Keller]

They get their feelings hurt, basically.

[Mase]

Right? I remember I said something about Pat Beverly. Shout out to Pat Beverly, too. I don't have a problem with any of these people. I just, you know, give an opinion. I did a take on Pat Beverly, and he's. And he. I remember he responded just a few years ago, he responded, he's like, damn, Cam, I thought she was cool. I liked you and paid in full. You know, Rico was about it, man. You wasn't about it. I'm like, hold on. I'm not Rico. You know what I'm saying?

[Max Keller]

You were real good in that role. He didn't.

[Mase]

I appreciate it.

[Max Keller]

You convinced him you were Rico.

[Mase]

But I'm just saying, I just think it means more coming from somebody like me that they may have looked up to when they was growing up or whatever. So sometime I take that into consideration. But at the same time, I'm not going to dumb down what's really going on. Either. You know what I'm saying?

[Max Keller]

Do you feel like after the Teofimo fight, has your opinion? Because I try to explain this sometimes to athletes or fighters, too. I'm just telling you what I think based on what I see, I might be right or wrong. And then if you give me new evidence, then my opinion changes. When you saw the to fight, did your opinion change if you.

[Mase]

Shakur, I never thought that. I thought that fight was really good. And he didn't look boring at all. He had a fight before the Teofimo fight that he looked really good in as well. With the fight that we were. That he had a problem with was this, right? Y' all think about it, right? He's from Newark, New Jersey. He was fighting in Newark, New Jersey, and they was born him in Newark, New Jersey. The fight was kind of boring, and we mentioned it, so he got mad. We fought really well after that, and I was like, yo, he's out here killing again. Then the Teo Fimo fight, he looked really, really good. But to me, even the fight that people were saying were boring. Fuck what people say.

[Max Keller]

You won, right?

[Mase]

You didn't lose.

[Max Keller]

If you were a fighter, you'd be like, whatever, yeah, yeah.

[Mase]

But at the same time, you want to sell tickets, too. You know what I'm saying? You gotta. You want to sell tickets, but if you didn't lose, I wouldn't give a fuck what nobody said, so that'd be the next thing.

[Max Keller]

Benavidez just looked great.

[Whole Foods Market Ad Voice]

Who.

[Max Keller]

You have a top five pound for pound right now.

[Cam'ron]

It's hard right now. Pause for that, because nobody. I said pause, homie. Listen, there's been a lot of pause going on up here. I just been letting it slide because I ain't want to ruin this show. I'll be honest with you. And I know what you doing, too. You want to put the meat in the sauce pour. I'm trying to play catch up with everybody. You try to get back at anybody you can.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know what's going on with you.

[Cam'ron]

We got. We got Rich man back here. He said, yeah, he wanted to put the meat on the snick sauce, and now he's trying to get revenge on anybody. I know exactly what he's doing.

[Max Keller]

He can't pause himself.

[Rich Paul]

He did. Yeah.

[Cam'ron]

I said pause before I did it. But he wants revenge. People like that who got paused of the year, they're looking for anybody. But as far as pound for pound, max right now, I don't know, because I don't know, you know, who's Canelo fighting next? Who is he going to fight again?

[Max Keller]

And Beely. And Beely fought Lester Martinez. That great fight on the Crawford Canelo undercard. Okay, so that dude, the African dude. Yeah, I know he's fighting Canelo next, Right?

[Cam'ron]

So that's a good fight.

[Mase]

See, I didn't know.

[Cam'ron]

I might have to catch up. But the fights that I really want to see aren't happening.

[Max Keller]

Like which ones?

[Cam'ron]

Shakur and Tank, they're supposed to fight. Then it was just supposed to be, you know, Rolly against Devin. Devin. That doesn't happen every time it's about to be something. It doesn't happen. So I don't know who to put in the top five pound for pound for pound list at the moment, but I do know Benavidez needs to be on it.

[Rich Paul]

You got to fix this with Zufa box.

[Max Keller]

That's. That's what Zuf is doing is trying

[Rich Paul]

to fix this box. You know, Kev, I have to ask you a couple things. One, when they decide to put you in that jumper on Confessions of Fire. We talked about this.

[Mase]

Yeah,

[Rich Paul]

just give me your insight. I know you was trying to get on, but.

[Cam'ron]

Yeah, I mean, I thought I followed. I followed UN's lead because he had dealt with Lil Kim, he dealt with. With Biggie, he dealt with Junior mafia. He came from working with Puff people, was sold a lot of records. So when he wanted to give me that image, I just ran with it. Like, for me, I, I, that's my reason why you had on a Sebastian tail foot bootleg jersey is I have no reason why you did. What were you trying to do?

[Rich Paul]

No, I was representing Bastion and it wasn't bootleg. No, it was not. I was representing the picture.

[Cam'ron]

You don't even give it to.

[Rich Paul]

We on the album. I got the picture too, but we on the album. I was just.

[Cam'ron]

No, I got the picture. If we need to pull it out.

[Rich Paul]

I just didn't know you had a leather. You had a leather jumper on.

[Cam'ron]

I had a bootleg jersey on, bro. And you got on for something.

[Mase]

You know, I know you started where you started from. You were selling official.

[Cam'ron]

So therefore, that may damage your whole

[Mase]

reputation of how you even got on

[Cam'ron]

if you wearing bootleg.

[Rich Paul]

Supposed to be Mitchell and Ness didn't make the Lincoln Sebastian. I was representing Bash as my man, so I was representing. But the other question I got is this. Max just like to be 0405, right? I'm on the phone with Cam. He said he gonna pull up. I don't believe him. He's coming through Ohio. He pulls up to the apartment. Pink Range Rover, of course I'm coming. I'm coming to bring you some scissor up. He was doing the scissor back then. He parks the car in front of the apartment. I'm like, cam, we should just valet now. I don't want to valet. I'mma park it right here because I'm in and out. Fine. I tried to tell him. Couldn't leave people everywhere because they know

[Max Keller]

it's Cam as soon as they see the. Right. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

The man don't listen. He came up to the apartment. He. He took care of us. I ain't gonna lie. He took care of us. Refrigerator full of the sizzer and. But when we came back downstairs, people everywhere couldn't leave. Felt like I put him in a danger environment, dangerous environment. But I didn't.

[Cam'ron]

No, you didn't. And you know what happened? I come from a neighborhood where I knew I wanted to see soldier motherfuckers because they didn't think I was gonna make it. So when I got the ping range. But I realized I couldn't do a lot of shit because I was trying to sneak the girl's crib, be in the Bronx parking. And every time I come downstairs, it'd be somebody downstairs waiting for autograph or a picture or whatever. Whatever it was. But what I will say about this is that I. Never mind. And like, no, we fuck around and joke a lot all the time. Everything. But to see you guys growth, all of you guys. Because I used to, you know, I used to creep down there when LeBron was in 11th, 12th grade with Buck and everybody, and just to come watch, I didn't know you guys well. But then when I seen you guys all elevate and turn out to what you guys made of yourself. Because you got to think about this, right? It's one thing knowing a superstar basketball player, but it's another thing learning, transitioning, and then becoming your own entity without that. And I just wanted to tell you, Mav, and. And Randy, of course, that I'm proud of you guys.

[Rich Paul]

I appreciate that.

[Mase]

Because I.

[Cam'ron]

By the way, I called the show.

[Rich Paul]

I called Cam prior to doing the show, and I said, cam, I got this idea. What do you think? He was like, hell, yeah, you should definitely do that. Because. Because you're just going to be the first to do it, but you should definitely do that. I called different people.

[Max Keller]

That's before you called me.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, no. Me. You already had the idea. But I told him I Told him about it. I called several people.

[Cam'ron]

Let me ask you this, though, real quick. What do you think? Let me ask you a question. What do you say to people who say that you shouldn't do this type of thing, being that you're an agent as well?

[Rich Paul]

I just think, one, when it's me, they always gonna try to box me. Cause it's me that's number one. And then number two, I think, you know, having a vision is just as important as having the talent. And I think, you know, there's very. There's a lot of people that feel like this is what something should look like because they lack the vision of it. And I understand content is king, but I also understand that in the industry that I'm in, where everyone's going to pile up against you no matter what you do, it just gives them something else to talk about. But long as I know why I'm doing it and why it makes the most sense, then it don't matter, you know? So people, people said I shouldn't sit courtside now. Every game I go to, you see other agents doing what sitting courtside, right? People said, oh, you shouldn't go on the record. You should. I got fined $50,000 for going on the record about AD and I went on the record every time with, with, with, with. With reporters now every summer and free agency, everything. What do you see? You. You just saw two agents come out on the record, right? They were never doing that before. They talk about having your own shoe. You shouldn't. Like, it's got to the point to where it's like, he wear white after Labor Day. You shouldn't, you shouldn't rock with him, you know, rock with them. So I, I understand it. And I just realized, like, when you the first to do something. Actually, I wasn't the first. I was just the first that actually mattered. But when you the first to do something, people going to have an issue with it. But my partners, the people that I called, they didn't have an issue with it. So as long as my partners don't have an issue with it, then you just have to let everyone else catch up. But I understand it. But I do understand there is a responsibility that comes with it in my position, because again, but when I saw the former athletes and different people, I'm like, really? Because I would say, well, you shouldn't either, because at least I actually have the information. You don't even have the information. You just blabbering things out. So which one makes which one is worse? But it was what it was. But just like anything else, it is what it is. It is what it is. But it also came and went just like I knew it would.

[Max Keller]

Cam, before we get out of here, are you more known right now when you get recognized as a rapper or a podcaster?

[Cam'ron]

Podcast, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

I would say.

[Max Keller]

But that really, if you've reached a certain level in a career and you're so successful in the next thing you do, that that becomes how people know you.

[Rich Paul]

That's a big congrats.

[Mase]

Yeah.

[Max Keller]

Congratulations.

[Rich Paul]

Congrats, man. We appreciate you coming on. Your man, in your words, we appreciate you coming on.

[Cam'ron]

Thank you, man.

[Mase]

Appreciate you.

[Rich Paul]

Before we go, favorite record you did.

[Cam'ron]

My favorite record that I've ever done. My favorite record. It isn't one record. My favorite album.

[Rich Paul]

Favorite album.

[Cam'ron]

Favorite album, I say is probably Purple Haze. I was in a good.

[Rich Paul]

Really?

[Cam'ron]

Yeah. I was in a good space in life with Purple Haze. I just sold a platinum album.

[Mase]

I had just come home with me. Yeah.

[Cam'ron]

Went platinum. And then I got Jewel's album out. Jim Jones got a deal. The Diplomat albums out. I didn't have to worry about the next man up mentality.

[Rich Paul]

You felt accomplished.

[Cam'ron]

Yeah, I felt accomplished and positioned. And our group and our label was good, so I could just kind of be where I want to be. I wrote the whole Purple Haze in Ohio.

[Rich Paul]

I tell you one thing, y' all had such an effect on culture. Not hip hop culture, culture. I mean, you guys wuang obviously Locks Rockefeller. It was. It was. And then obviously the guys down south, cash money and no limit. You know, when. When you think about the effect that those. And it was, you know, those cultures.

[Cam'ron]

I followed their blueprint.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Cam'ron]

I like. So a lot of people like movements. You know, the reason I put the Diplomats together or tried to put a group together was because we would be on my block and people would be arguing about, yo, Master P's the best. No Sook the shock the best. Your me X the best. You like. You're arguing a bunch of. About the best people inside of one group.

[Rich Paul]

50 also had a great move, the G unit.

[Max Keller]

So when you make a super group,

[Cam'ron]

when you make a group, because then the argument is, if you like Jim better than Juel's cool, you like Juels better.

[Mase]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

That gives you.

[Cam'ron]

It's all in the same thing.

[Rich Paul]

That makes sense.

[Cam'ron]

That's why I did it.

[Max Keller]

So other people salute it is what it is. I'm not saying this because Cam is sitting here.

[Rich Paul]

It is what it is to me.

[Max Keller]

To me, it's the best. Okay. In I'll say. I think inside the NBA because it's Shaq and Chuck doing it like legends doing it. I think that's the best sports show I ever seen. I think the best new show to come out that deals with sports in years is. Is it is what it is. I think you guys are great now.

[Cam'ron]

Thank you, Max. And like you said, you've been doing this way, way longer than me, so I appreciate the compliment. Thank you so much, bro.

[Max Keller]

Thanks for coming on the show, Max.

[Rich Paul]

Game [e-mail] game over.

[Max Keller]

Max Keller and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, Cam.

[Max Keller]

We're not going to do emails today because this is no, we got Cam special. You know, we do the emails and

[Rich Paul]

it is what it is.

[Max Keller]

It is what it is.

[Rich Paul]

Now we got to do it is what it is. Me and you, Max, with Cam and Mace for sure.

[Cam'ron]

Absolutely.

[Rich Paul]

In Vegas.

[Max Keller]

No doubt.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, let's do it.

[Max Keller]

You know, I'm in and out of Vegas.

[Mase]

Okay.

[Rich Paul]

Done.

[Mase]

Let's do it.

[Max Keller]

21 and over in select states for Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problems. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchatinconnecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.