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Max Kellerman (0:31)

So rich, something that's been bothering me. You see this reaction to Chalamet?

Rich Paul (0:36)

No, I didn't.

Max Kellerman (0:37)

So Timothee Chalamet, who's like nominated for an Oscar, he makes some innocuous comment, right? The comment, something to the effect of, you see the way the movie industry is going. It's not as important in popular culture anymore. No one has the attention span. People don't go to the movie theaters anymore since COVID especially. But also you can get it direct to your house. So he made some point, like basically to Matthew McConaughey he was talking to. Basically he doesn't want to be in a situation like what happened to opera and ballet. Meaning opera and ballet used to be popular culture art forms that are now just relegated to kind of high cultural art forms on the margins because new mediums and stuff like new media and new art forms replaced them in the popular consciousness. And so like you need endowments from the arts a lot of times to have opera, ballet because they can't commercially support themselves a lot of the time. Not all the time, but usually. He's clearly making this point by saying he doesn't want movies to be in that situation. And everyone, like there's all this backlash from people who are either too stupid to understand his point and there are a lot of dumb people, like, you know, so maybe they really just don't. Their comprehension is so low that they misinterpret what he's saying. Or else this is my chance to virtue signal about opera and ballet and bash this guy. That stuff bothers me. I hate that.

Rich Paul (2:04)

Yeah. First of all, Timothy is a friend of mine, so obviously I'm biased. I'm not going to talk bad about him. I didn't hear what happened. But I want to ask you.

Max Kellerman (2:11)

Yeah.

Rich Paul (2:12)

Is going to the movies with your girl still the same, have the same value as it once had?

Max Kellerman (2:18)

I don't think so.

Rich Paul (2:19)

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Episode: Creating a Championship Team, and Best NBA Duos of All Time

Date: March 13, 2026
Podcast Host: The Ringer

Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode, Max Kellerman and super-agent Rich Paul discuss what it takes to build a championship-level NBA roster, reflect on memorable NBA duos throughout history, and dig deep into the intricacies of basketball culture and fandom. The hosts also tackle current league storylines, including recent hot streaks, evolving basketball strategy, and the psychology behind sports idolization. The conversation is a blend of insight, humor, and the hosts' authentic chemistry.

Key Topics & Segments

1. Movies in Modern Culture & Chalamet’s “Opera” Comment

[00:31–04:13]

Max reacts to backlash against Timothée Chalamet’s commentary on movies becoming marginalized, like opera and ballet.
- Max: “He’s clearly making this point by saying he doesn’t want movies to be in that situation. And everyone…bash this guy. That stuff bothers me. I hate that.” (01:35)
Rich shares nostalgia for the “date value” of going to the movies and how the experience brings people together.
- Rich: “I think going to the movies with your girl could actually help the relationship tremendously…a little touch on the knee…” (02:20)
Both discuss the affordability of movies compared to other live entertainment.
- Max: “Movies should really market themselves. Hey, you want a good night out?” (03:08)

2. Celtics, Thunder, and the SGA Streak

[06:15–10:19]

Discussion shifts to recent NBA games, with Kellan noting SGA’s new record for consecutive 20-point games.
- Max: “The significant thing is that it’s more than anyone ever…that level of consistency means something.” (07:12)
- Rich: “It’s always those guys that you don’t expect. Kawhi…the season he’s having. Unbelievable. Giannis was the 15th pick.” (08:02)

3. The 8–15 Draft Pick Sweet Spot

[08:01–10:19]

Debate on how late-lottery draft picks often produce franchise stars.
- Rich: “I wonder if it’s more franchise guys in that pocket than it is in the pocket of one to two.” (08:30)
Braden Burrys highlighted as a potential future star from that range.
- Rich: “He’s a two-way guard…going to be able to come right in and play.” (08:43)
Max emphasizes the importance of basketball IQ.
- Max: “If you pick a dude and say him, it’s because of a high basketball IQ. That’s the number one thing.” (10:19)

4. What Builds a Championship Team?

[10:27–14:14]

Max lays out five critical components:
1. An on-floor extension of the coach
2. High basketball IQ across the rotation
3. System that fits players (not vice versa)
4. Sufficient size
5. Committed defense
- Max: “All the guys who play real minutes have to have a high IQ…You need a system that fits the players…” (10:46–11:15)
Rich adds the need for a balanced roster and a “go-to guy who makes teammates better in key moments, not ‘me moments.’” (11:47)

5. Celtics Contenders? Playoff Matchups & Brown/Tatum Dynamics

[14:14–17:47]

Both analyze how the Celtics’ recent close losses may be more encouraging than they appear.
- Max: “I’m very, very interested to see…how do those two [Tatum and Brown] work at the end of a tight game against a likely finals opponent.” (14:46)
Rich: “If they win it this year…to win when you’re not expected to, that’s a different feather in the cap.” (16:15)
Both examine Celtics-Knicks playoff scenarios and the intricacies of matchup-based basketball.

6. Spurs’ Dominance, Wemby’s Impact & the State of Title Contenders

[17:47–21:24]

Max lauds Wembanyama’s transformative effect on the Spurs and the NBA as a whole.
- Max: “Who I consider the best player in basketball...Wemby…changes the game more than anyone else.” (17:56)
Discussion on the fluctuating nature of best-team status in today’s league, but Max insists: “Spurs, when they have matched up with other Western Conference teams…are better than the other team.” (20:27)
Rich: “I love the Spurs. You’re never going to get anything negative for me…” (20:42)

7. NBA Duos: Murray/Jokic, Measuring True Partnerships

[21:24–29:21]

Max raises Jamal Murray–Jokic’s statistical synergy and the meaning of a “real duo.”
- Max: “Are they the best one, two punch in basketball ever?...As a one two, who was your best duo?” (22:56–24:19)
Both lists off historic NBA duos, debating criteria for true pairings:
- Shaq & Kobe, Jordan & Pippen, Magic & Kareem, Bird & McHale, KD & Steph, LeBron & Wade.
- Rich: “You can put [Jordan & Pippen] together, but they weren’t really a one two.” (24:16)
- Max: “KD and Steph. Done. Those are the five.” (29:08)
Memorable back-and-forth:
- Rich: “You don’t really know basketball.” (29:28)
- Max: “I was the one who came up with it, not you.” (29:29)

8. Playoff All-Stars vs. Regular Season Stars

[21:52–22:16]

Rich: “Keep your regular season All Star. Give me my playoff All Star.”
Max references Jimmy Butler’s consistent playoff excellence.
- Max: “If you said, is Jimmy Butler a top five player most seasons, no one would say yes until the playoffs. And everyone says yes.” (22:02)

9. Luka’s Leap (and Max’s ‘Credit’)

[37:11–40:16]

Max jokingly claims his public criticism triggered Luka Doncic’s recent hot streak, referencing a blog that tracked Luka’s improvement post-critique.
- Max: “Since I did that, it opened the floodgates. Everyone’s been on Luka…” (38:30)
Rich: “I saw your shot…You try to take credit for a guy that’s six-seven with a handle and a jump shot…”
- Max: "Do you understand the great motivators, Rich, the Pat Rileys, the Phil Jacksons, the Max Kellermans..." (40:02)
Playful banter about Max’s basketball skills (or lack thereof).

10. MVP and Coach of the Year Debates

[42:11–43:44]

Rich argues for Kawhi Leonard in the MVP race and Ty Lue (Clippers coach) for Coach of the Year.
- Rich: “In order to win, you have to have that relationship with players…” (43:27)
Max: “I think both LA coaches are in the coach of the year conversation…” (43:20)

11. Five Minute Max & The Psychology of NBA Fandom

[44:00–51:03]

Max’s “Five Minute Max” explores why fans (especially Kobe fans) fiercely defend their idols and question historic achievements like Wilt’s 100-point game.
- Max: “…if you think all the greatest players are all from when you were experiencing your formative years, come on, man.” (48:33)
- Rich: “What I was really taken back by were former players and people in the media…trying to discredit it, whether you were a fan of Kobe or not.” (49:12)

12. NBA Evolution: Three-Pointer Debate

[57:49–67:44]

Listener email asks about the future evolution of basketball.
Max advocates for rule tweaks to balance the three-point revolution, suggesting incentives for other types of shots.
- Max: “You can incentivize people to play the way you want them to play. That’s why people shoot threes, because it’s worth an extra point.” (58:35)
Rich (as agent and purist) resists dramatic changes, preferring diversity in play styles.
- Rich: “If you have a roster that doesn’t include great shooting and your system says shoot more threes, then that’s bad on your part…” (62:14)

13. Cultural Interludes: Harlem Nights & Musical Vibes

[51:25–74:51]

Fun detour into movies (“Harlem Nights”) and music (A Tribe Called Quest, Outkast, Prince vs. Michael Jackson).
- Rich: “Tribe is a vibe.” (71:11)
- Both agree Prince would be a cooler hang.
Announcement: A “very special guest” is joining the next episode, generating anticipation.

Notable Quotes

“You need a balanced roster that has IQ that exists within. Obviously you need a go-to guy…willing to make his teammates better in key moments. The guy that focuses on the ‘me moments’—you cannot win with that guy.”
—Rich Paul, [11:47]
“If your team can rely on you for that offense for season after season, that means something. He is a genuinely clutch player.”
—Max Kellerman, on SGA [07:12]
“Keep your regular season All Star. Give me my playoff All Star.”
—Rich Paul, [21:56]
“Shaq and Kobe are the answer…they were both as basically as good as history has ever produced at what they did, and they were on the same team.”
—Max Kellerman, [25:52]
“If you think all the greatest players are all from when you were experiencing your formative years, come on, man…But Kobe was incredible. He was among the greatest ever…He doesn’t need to be the greatest ever for you to love him.”
—Max Kellerman, [48:33–48:49]
“We cannot turn a diamond…into a fugazi.”
—Rich Paul, on complicating basketball with gimmicky rules, [66:46]

Timestamps for Important Segments

Chalamet/movies & culture: 00:31–04:13
SGA/Thunder/Celtics analysis: 06:15–10:19
Draft “sweet spot”/player IQ: 08:01–10:19
Building a championship team: 10:27–14:14
NBA duos debate: 21:24–29:21
Luka criticism/max’s influence (joking): 37:11–40:16
Playoff vs. regular season stars: 21:52–22:16
NBA evolution, three-point debate: 57:49–67:44
Psychology of fandom/legacy: 44:00–51:03
Music/movies interlude: 51:25–74:51
First special guest tease: 72:33–73:50

Memorable Moments & Banter

Max takes cheeky credit for Luka Doncic’s performance spike: “It’s thanks to me…since I criticized Luca, here are his games, and he’s been going off.” (38:30)
The hosts rib each other over basketball skill and knowledge:
- Rich: “You don’t really know basketball.”
- Max: “I was the one who came up with [KD & Steph], not you.” (29:28–29:32)
A running joke about Rich Paul being “one of the best shooters ever” versus Steph, Klay, and Ray Allen (40:26–41:15)
Reflection on the emotional investment fans have in the “idols” of their youth, and how that warps perspectives on history.
Rich’s wisdom on player incentives: “I always think of how it affects players…I'm not changing anything.”

Listener Q&A Highlights

Kobe’s scoring mentality: Both agree Kobe would have chased the record if within reach; teammates rallying behind Bam’s historic game was celebrated.
NBA’s future evolution: Max proposes incentive tweaks to diversify scoring; Rich insists on team-by-team strategic diversity, wary of over-tinkering.
Tribe Called Quest omission: Both hosts agree it’s an all-time group, with memorable albums as background vibes.

Tone and Chemistry

The rapport is sharp, playful, and competitive—each host pushing the other intellectually while trading well-timed jokes and friendly barbs.
The tone balances deep basketball analysis with cultural commentary and lighthearted storytelling.

Next Week’s Tease

The hosts hint at a “very special guest”—described as perhaps the coolest person on the planet with a laid-back charisma. Details are kept secret, but excitement is built for the next episode.

For further discussion or to email the show:
gameover@spotify.com