Darnold Flips the Script, Melo vs. LeBron, and Paul vs. Joshua

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: Darnold Flips the Script, Melo vs. LeBron, and Paul vs. Joshua
Date: December 19, 2025
Host: The Ringer

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Overview

In this episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul tackle some of the week’s hottest sports stories. The main themes are redemption stories in the NFL—highlighting Sam Darnold’s unexpected heroics—an in-depth discussion about whether LeBron and Carmelo Anthony were ever true rivals, and a look at the spectacle of Jake Paul fighting Anthony Joshua. True to form, the hosts’ debates are pointed, insightful, and often brought back to their personal sports philosophies and behind-the-scenes perspectives in sports and culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL Recap: Sam Darnold "Flips the Script"

[04:34–15:32]

• Max’s Take: It’s About Narrative & Redemption

  • Max is fascinated by moments in sports where outcomes defy established narratives—Sam Darnold’s performance for the Seahawks is one such moment.

    "To me, he just authored the first chapter in his own story. And Rich, that's what I love about sports, is these guys write their own stories." (08:44, Max)

  • He draws analogies to James Harden’s failures and Steph Curry’s eventual breakthrough, arguing that most players rarely escape the narrative built around them—Darnold did, at least for a night.

• Rich’s Response: Darnold’s Mental Fortitude & Culture of Growth

  • Rich lauds Darnold, emphasizing how quickly fans and media write off young athletes (10:00), stressing the importance of mental toughness and the ability to eventually build "equity and confidence."
  • He credits Seahawks coaching for “culture changing” moments like bold two-point conversions and amplifies how such wins become locker room touchstones and, potentially, season-defining (10:00–11:48).

• The Big Picture: The Making (and Breaking) of NFL Quarterbacks

  • Both agree modern QBs have shorter timeframes to change their label from “just a guy” to “the guy.”

    "Usually that script does not change, especially nowadays where people are less patient with quarterbacks than they used to." (11:48, Max)

  • Rich notes mental resilience is often the separator and underscores how crucial it is for organizations to foster accountability (17:57–18:14).

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2. AFC Playoff Landscape & Team Identity

[15:32–22:29]

• Who’s For Real in the AFC?

  • Max’s power ranking puts the Bills and Texans a cut above, with special mention to the Broncos’ improvement under Sean Payton (15:47).
  • Rich dubs the Texans the “Hamburglar” of the AFC—a disruptive presence nobody wants to face (18:46), praises CJ Stroud’s poise, and details the importance of self-driven preparation for team success.

• Coaching & Player Development

  • Max reflects on Ryan Clark’s point about mobile quarterbacks putting stress on defenses, especially referencing Bo Nix (16:19).
  • Both agree coaching stability and the right QB make all the difference for a franchise—Sean Payton and the Broncos serving as a prime example.

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3. The LeBron vs. Carmelo ‘Rivalry’ Debate: Myth or Missed Opportunity?

[38:50–54:35]

• Is it a Rivalry? The Brandon Jennings Take

  • Max asks Rich if the Bron vs. Melo narrative was ever real, referencing Brandon Jennings’ popular take (39:04).
  • Rich agrees with Jennings: the rivalry never fully materialized, mostly due to circumstances beyond Carmelo’s control.

    "The moment the Detroit Pistons decided to take Darko Milichek, the opportunity of a rivalry is dead." (40:09, Rich)

  • Had Carmelo gone to Detroit, Rich asserts, matchups with LeBron would have been frequent and meaningful.

• Drafts, Destiny, and Decision-Making

  • Both acknowledge that draft order—LeBron to Cleveland, Carmelo to Denver—erased the possibility of true rivalry.
  • Max suggests Carmelo’s later career decisions (Knicks over Heat, gutting the Knicks’ roster) further limited his championship potential, but Rich steers it back:

    "People think, oh, luxury is costing a lot of ... It's the way you think.... The mindset is the true luxury." (43:58, Rich)

• Carmelo’s Legacy: A Victim of Era and Circumstance?

  • Rich laments that Carmelo never won a title and highlights how the NBA’s shifting style—toward spacing and efficiency—reduced Melo’s effectiveness just as he peaked (53:05).

    "His game was built on a certain kind of NBA ... And then out from under his feet, the league changed." (53:06, Max) "When you can shoot the ball the way that Carmelo Anthony could shoot the ball, you'll always, there is no game changing shooting." (54:27, Rich)

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4. Boxing: Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua—A Carnival or a Real Fight?

[54:44–58:34]

• Max’s Analysis: Jake Paul’s Calculated Climb

  • Max outlines Jake Paul’s strategy: take incremental, headline-grabbing steps to build his boxing résumé (55:00–56:38).

    "If Jake Paul makes it to the third round, that's the same thing as winning." (58:25, Max)

• Rich’s Take: Props for Daring, But the Odds Are Real

  • Rich tips his hat (“I tip my hat to the brother,” 57:50) but is clear: against Joshua—bigger, stronger, vastly more accomplished—survival is the goal.
  • They both marvel at how Mike Tyson, even at almost 60, remains a top draw (56:38).

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5. Personal Anecdotes, Locker Room Insights, & Basketball Draft Redos

[22:29–38:50, 25:43–30:19]

• On Work Ethic and Independence

  • Rich: True excellence comes from what you do off the field. He shares stories of Tyrese Maxey’s relentless drive and training through COVID (27:06), urging young athletes to focus on habits, not hype.

    "Tyrese Maxey, during Covid was doing two a days. During Covid sometimes three a days. He was never late and never complained." (27:06, Rich)

• Basketball "What Ifs": Tyrese Maxey, Halliburton, and Redrafts

  • The hosts muse about how different drafts would look with the benefit of hindsight, with Maxey and Halliburton climbing up the boards (29:49–30:19).
  • Rich recounts actively lobbying for Maxey to go higher—his behind-the-scenes dealings with teams like Philly (28:18–28:39).

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6. Miscellaneous & Memorable Moments

• Hot Bath Comedy

  • Rich spins a story about never understanding why the women in his family prefer scorching hot baths, leading to playful banter with Max (58:33–60:40).

    "When my mother used to run the bathwater ... the water is so hot I can't get in so now I'm on the clock." (59:34, Rich)

• College Football Quick Picks

  • Both hosts throw out quick college football picks for Alabama vs. Oklahoma and Miami vs. Texas A&M, with a general “home team advantage” slant (61:02–61:35).

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Notable Quotes

• On Athlete Narratives:

  "The greatest moment in sports to me is when you learn something new, is when you think it's one way, but it turns out to be ... another way." (05:12, Max Kellerman)

• On Mike Tomlin’s Universal Appeal:

  "I just think all athletes need what Mike Tomlin has to offer in some capacity. Some may need, like, a sippy cup of it. And some may need a 40 ounce of it, but you need what Mike Tomlin has to offer as a coach." (02:27, Rich Paul)

• On Carmelo’s Missed Detroit Opportunity:

  "The moment the Detroit Pistons decided to take Darko Milichek, the opportunity of a rivalry is dead." (40:09, Rich Paul)

• On Jake Paul’s Boxing Strategy:

  "Jake Paul takes the sport seriously ... and he has developed himself into a solid like eight round cruiserweight puncher... If Jake Paul makes it to the third round, that's the same thing as winning." (54:49 & 58:25, Max Kellerman)

• On Player Independence:

  "...It's not at the facility, it's at home. That is a player who has a strong degree of independence, actually, and the kind of guy you want on your team because ... his independence is exercised in a way to make himself the best he can be." (24:35–25:03, Max Kellerman)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sam Darnold’s Breakout and NFL Redemption Stories —— 04:34–15:32
• AFC Contenders & the Power of Coaching —— 15:32–22:29
• Athlete Habits, Independence, and Work Ethic —— 22:29–27:06
• NBA Redraft: Tyrese Maxey, Halliburton, and More —— 27:06–30:19
• LeBron vs. Melo: Rivalry or Myth? —— 38:50–54:35
• Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua: Why Bother? —— 54:44–58:34
• Comic Bathwater Tangent —— 58:33–60:48
• College Football Quick Picks —— 61:02–61:40

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Final Notes

This episode is an excellent snapshot of why “Game Over” works: Max and Rich alternate between deeply reasoned analysis, personal anecdotes from inside the sports world, and refreshingly candid takes on sports myths. The hosts’ chemistry shines as both spar respectfully and laugh heartily, making it a must-listen for those looking to understand the stories behind the headlines.

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Perfect for: Fans wanting detailed breakdowns of recent games, thoughtful debates on legacy and narrative in sports, and a side of behind-the-scenes wisdom from both media and agent perspectives.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Rich.

[C]

Oh, look at you, Max.

[B]

Got the Porsche hat on and everything today, huh?

[C]

You know what, Max?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Your name is Money Max. Now. This is my birthday gift from you.

[B]

Happy birthday.

[C]

This is, like, really sewn in. There's no white. You know how they have the white paste. No, this is.

[B]

No, no, listen. When you opened the donuts on your birthday and you said, oh, if it's Max, it's Laurel Piano, I knew I had to, you know.

[C]

Well, you know what? Got great taste, my brother. Thank you.

[B]

You too. These are your kicks. See that?

[C]

Nice shoes.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. The rps.

[C]

I like that. Trade off the rps.

[B]

So Thursday night, we have a lot of NFL to get into. I know college football's coming up, but last night's game, Thursday night football, arguably the best game of the year. I have some stuff I want you to hear. I want to see what you have to say.

[C]

Well, I watched.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Broncos and Pats are the two teams that come to mind. To me, like, I see it as, like, Bills, Texans in the AFC because of the way the Texans defense has come on, especially in the second half of the year, the front seven. But like Broncos especially, and also the Pats. And I want to talk about the Broncos for a certain reason.

[C]

I like the Broncos.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Sean Payton guy.

[C]

I like Sean Payton.

[B]

Turn that place around. I know it's going back to Monday Night Football, but we haven't had a chance to talk about Pittsburgh and Miami. Cause I want to talk.

[C]

Aaron Rodgers, big Mike Tomlin fan here.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, of course. Mike Tomlin, best podium guy all time.

[C]

I just love it. I just always love Mike Tomlinson.

[B]

We can get into Tom. The fact that he has never had a losing season and he's done it without a quarterback. He's done it as a defensive team, as an offensive team, as a running team, as a throwing. Like, he just never.

[C]

I just think all athletes need what Mike Tomlin has to offer in some capacity. Some may need, like, a sippy cup of it. And some may need a 40 ounce of it, but you need what Mike Tomlin has to offer as a coach.

[B]

As a fan, any fan can relate and look at it and go, well, I get why guys would run through a brick wall for that guy. Because you hear him at the podium and you're like, I'd run through a brick wall for that guy.

[C]

He just gets it. You know, he's a no nonsense guy. He just gets it. And it's not even all that. It's just like he just gets. It's hard to explain.

[B]

And I want to ask you. There's a clip going around about whether LeBron and Melo was a rivalry and you're the guy to ask about that. I want to get into it. Will you talk about that? Will you talk about that on this show?

[C]

Here's the thing. If you ask me a question, I will talk about it. Yes. Do I care to talk about it? No, I think it's obvious. But sure, if you want to talk about it.

[B]

Well, look, I will take your feelings into consideration. We're partners after all. I'm gonna ask you about it.

[C]

Hey, I committed to the job.

[B]

So that's it. Jake Paul and Anthony Joshua, probably people wanna know what I have to say about that. Because it's a fight.

[C]

Well, I wanna know. Yes. I definitely wanna know your take on that. Yes. Yes. All right, let's talk about that.

[B]

And you and maybe some college football. Because this is a big weekend.

[C]

Big weekend in college football. We have a bye, but. Yes, we have a bye. Well, you said I'm allowed to be a fan on the show.

[B]

No doubt.

[C]

No doubt. So in that case, you know what?

[B]

I apologize for that. I hate it when guys in the media criticize fans or other people in the media for saying we about their teams. Who doesn't think about their teams? As in we as a kid, as.

[C]

A, you know, and I. So this is a safe place for me to be a fan in those situations.

[B]

The Yankees acquire some big name at any point this month. I'm going to say we got so and so.

[C]

Okay, great.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I just don't want to be penalized for.

[B]

I retract my previous statement. You ready to do this?

[C]

Let's do it.

[B]

Game over is presented by fanduel. Fanduel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on holiday offers and surprises all month long. Download the fanduel app or if you head to FanDuel.com gameover to get started 21 and over in present in select states or 18 and over in present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenectic. A lot of people were saying last night was the best game of the year. It might have been. It's hard to argue against it considering the stakes and everything, right? I thought that. And the Bills Patriots, when Josh Allen came back on them, was also because there was a like, their significant not just because of what they do in the standings and the seatings and everything, but because of a larger sense of a narrative shift. And I'll tell you what I mean by that. The greatest moment in sports to me is when you learn something new, is when you think it's one way, but it turns out to be. It's the Marlowe line. You want it one way, but it's the other way, but it turns out to be another way. So I think about, like in this case, I'm talking about Sam Darnold. I think about a guy like James Harden, and people can say, well, Harden, there are extenuating circumstances. There's an excuse here, there's an excuse there. James Harden's been on a lot of great teams, really good, talented teams. He's a great player. He has failed to win a championship. And I take no pleasure as a member of the media or as a fan pointing that out. But that is the truth. And that's how I see that story. James, you need to get it done when it matters most. And he's had a lot of shots. Even Steph Curry, people think that I hate on Steph. No, that's the way I see it. I never saw Steph as the best player on the floor on a championship team until 2022. But he was in 2022. To me, he changed that script. Even if people disagree with my interpretation, that's the way I saw that story. I'm watching the game last night and there's Sam Darnold, and I picked the Rams the first time because they have Stafford and Seattle has Darnold, and otherwise they're comparable teams. I think about Rich, I think about, like, what the Rams did to acquire Jared Goff, right? They spent so much draft capital to move up and grab this dude. And it worked. They got to the super bowl, but they couldn't get over the top. So they were like, not good enough. Now we're gonna spend all this draft capital, plus Jared Goff, which is all that draft capital, to go get Matthew Stafford. Cuz we're willing to do what it takes to get the. The guy. And it worked. And they won a Super Bowl. And like, because the days of Trent Dilfer are over, where a good, solid quarterback can win you a Super bowl, it doesn't happen anymore. Really. When you look at the super bowl winners, they're all special, right? So I'm watching. You don't. Do you think so?

[C]

Yeah, I was just thinking back. Yes.

[B]

So thank you for bearing with me through this take. I know it's a long one. So I think about the Stafford super bowl run and Brady was defending champ and with the Bucks, and he. And he drives the Bucks down. Like the Bucs score a touchdown late in the game and it's Tom Brady. And of course this is gonna happen. And usually the other team folds under that pressure, right? Because everyone believes in the back of their mind, Brady's supposed to win. Brady's the goat. Brady. Stafford took that ball, drove him right down the field, and the Rams won that game. And that showed me something. And they went on to win the Super Bowl. And so now I'm watching Stafford and Darnold and I'm thinking, we know what happens here. And sure enough, Darnold throws some interceptions and Stafford makes some great plays and the Rams are gonna win the game. Oh, excuse me. Shahid with the punt return and another explosive play. And now. Okay, Darnold, let's see what you got. Like, here it is. It's on a platter for you. Let's see what you got. Are you just the guy? Are you a jag, maybe a half step above a jag because he's talented? Or can you be that guy? Because I never thought that he was one of those guys after last night. To me, he just authored the first chapter in his own story. And Rich, that's what I love about sports, is these guys write their own stories. Yes, it was a Seattle defense. It's the coaching I get. But Sam Darnold had to come through or they don't win that game. And he did. All right, that's it. Your reaction to Sam Darnold and the Seahawks last night?

[C]

Well, I didn't know you was going to drive in the school zone on that take, but it's fine.

[B]

School zone all the way.

[C]

But I would say I agree with you in terms of I look at Seattle, the Same way I look at the Texans, they are the team you don't want to play in the playoffs. And the difference maker on each, in my opinion, has solid defenses. CJ Stroud on one end, Sam Darnold's play on the other end. If Sam Darnold plays well like he did last night, you don't want to play the Seahawks in the playoffs. And I also, I'm happy for Sam Darnold, let me tell you why. Because like you said, I think sometimes we're too quick to write off specific athletes because of whatever the evaluation coming out of college was or what we think he should be and so on and so forth. And for Sam Darnold to take a step and go up 3, 4 flights of being just a guy, that was impressive. And Mike McDonald, his idea of two point conversion, fourth quarter, three of them to convert, that is that to me is culture changing. Or in this case, because Pete Carroll did an unbelievable job going to the Seahawks to actually change the culture, but enhancing that culture from Mike McDonald and his staff. And that's one where you as a former. I wasn't a great football player at all, but I would go back to my athletic days as someone who was on a football team. You want to be in the locker room celebrating that win with those, that's just one of those things now. Can't get ultimately too high. But that's a real season changing win, in my opinion.

[B]

See, there are most of the time when you get a guy and you're like, okay, I get it, man, he's, he's a guy, he's a guy. He's not bad. He's a guy. Usually that script does not change, especially nowadays where people are less patient with quarterbacks than they used to.

[C]

Well, a lot of it has to do with I would say your mental like can you stay mentally strong enough along the roller coaster ride till you get to a place to where now you can start to build equity and that confidence space. And in this case, it looks like Sam Darnold.

[B]

What do you think about the idea though? Because I feel like guys like you, meaning on the representation side or the athlete side, right? Because when you represent the athletes, you're seeing a lot of it from that point of view. Feel like the media is quick to come up with these narratives, right. And then they get dug into them, right? To me, I'm looking for the story, of course, right. Like you want to know what's happening here and sometimes it has to be, you know, you oversimplify things because you're trying to tell a simple story, like a story that's accessible even to yourself. Right. But like, if Darnold doesn't come through, if he throws another pick, if he overthrows a receiver there, I'm coming out today and saying, you need a better quarterback than that. It's not that he's not good. He's good, but he's not one of those guys. And nowadays in the NFL, you need one of those guys. You do, right? You do. And to me, these guys write their own scripts. Like, you can say whatever you want about circumstances, but if Steph doesn't play the way he did in 22 and they don't win that championship, I'm sitting here going, steph's never been the best player on the floor during a championship run ever.

[C]

I thought you were hating on Steph a little bit, Max. The first time around. The first time around. But he did it in 22. Who's the best player on the floor? And normally the smallest player on the floor can't be your best guy and you actually win. And there's very few guys that have done it. Steph is one of them.

[B]

He did it.

[C]

And Isaiah, Thomas the legend.

[B]

No question. And if Isaiah. By the way, Isaiah is a great example. If Isaiah doesn't come up big in big spots, we don't talk about him the same way. Like people who want to talk about Stockton, Isaiah. I'm sorry, Isaiah got it done. He got it done. Stockton, excellent defender, great offensive player. Stockton was a great player. But I can't. I'm not even talking about. Well, Isaiah could get you 35 if you needed it. It's kind of different. I'm talking about when they had the opportunity, on great teams. Isaiah won championships and he did it frequently because his play elevated in the biggest moments. That means something to me. Right. I need to see that. I'm not making it up. Like James Harden hasn't done it. Right. You could talk about style of play, whatever. But I remember they missed every single shot they took in a Game seven and lost.

[C]

That was just. I mean, when you take those. Hit a couple of type of shots.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And you go cold. That's just. That was just tough. Well, I actually wanted to see James. Cause I like James a lot. I want to see James get to the finals. Yeah, but that was just. That was one of those games.

[B]

But you know what? If you have a career and at the end, there were a couple moments like that, and it was just one of those games. That's the Difference between someone like that and someone like Eli Manning, who was never James Harden normally, but when it mattered most, he didn't have just one of those games. He had one of those games, right?

[C]

Yeah, he did.

[B]

That's. That's. To me, that. Is that a real. To me, that's a real thing. Are you saying that's not a real thing?

[C]

No, that's a real thing.

[B]

Okay. That's what I mean. I wanted to know. I'm looking at the AFC and to me it's Texans, Bills. Because of what? The way Josh Allen came back on the Patriots, the way he's played this whole season. Really?

[C]

You mean it's only the Texans Bills?

[B]

To me, those are the two teams. That's who's going to decide the afc. But I will say you have to nod to the Patriots, even though they lost that game because they're great coach, great quarterback, but the Broncos. And the reason I'm bringing up the Broncos is because the way I look at football, if who has a chance to win a Super Bowl, I'm looking at coach. Check. You got a coach? Yeah, they got. Then I'm looking at quarterback. Then I'm looking at your defense. And really, generally, do you control the line of scrimmage? Broncos are. Check on the coach. To me, it was a question mark at quarterback and a check on the defense. Line of scrimmage, Great defense. Then I saw Ryan Clark popped up on my reels, and he was talking about. Or maybe I read it somewhere, he was talking about how Bo Nix was responsible for Micah Parsons injury. And I'm thinking, huh, why would he say that? And I listened to what he had to say. When you're the spy guy, when you're the guy who has to do everything and you're chasing around a mobile quarterback who can do a lot of things, that puts a lot of physical pressure on you, too, cutting and stopping and starting. And I thought, let me go back and look at VO Nix this last week. Oh, I did not know it was like that. It was like that, Rich. He was not only mobile and escaping pressure, he was making great decisions. He was looking off the defense. He was throwing darts. I get Ryan's point. Like, I see it. And to me, that's a big check at quarterback. If he can continue that, if that's a real thing, if that's not a mirage, you cannot. Cannot. The Broncos are real.

[C]

How much of Sean Payton do you think is contributing to Bo Nix's play? A lot. Because he seems like a guy that obviously gets. He's gotten better over time. And then I think that quarterback coach relationship just instills that confidence. If you have the proper rapport, you can go out there and play freely, you have some responsibility. But then you know there's gonna be accountability that comes with that.

[B]

That's the thing, the accountability.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you knew when Sean. That franchise was a mess. They hire Sean Payton and the first thing you know is, hoo hoo. It's not business as usual anymore. All that nonsense is gone. Like this is gonna get ser. Took him a couple years and he got it done.

[C]

But you need that. And the Broncos actually has always been, at least since I've been watching football, a organization that you thought was a pretty good organization throughout the NFL. And they had winning and they had teams a lot of years, et cetera. So. Yeah, no, look, I think when I look at the afc, I still think. For me, this year, I still think it's the Bills. Right.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

I think Josh Allen gets there this year. But the Texans almost seem like the Hamburglar of the NFL, of the afc. And it's like the Texans are that team that you do not want to play.

[B]

Did I bring this up on the pod the other day? Or maybe it was in a conversation with you off the air. They remind me of the Bucks off the Bucks defense the year they beat the Raiders in the Super Bowl. Where. Oh, yeah, where. I don't remember if I said it on the pod, but like, sometimes there are extreme outliers where you watch them at a certain point later in the season, you go, oh, it's like that. Like, whatever happens with the Texans this year, I'm going to remember this front. Like, I'm going to think about it. When I think, what are some of the best fronts you've seen? If this continues like that, I will say, well, the. The Texans in 2025 were a lot.

[C]

When they're clicking on all cylinders, it's just like. And sometimes I was talking about this last night with some young guys. We was talking about a number of things. It was a couple of young kids, Seattle fans, et cetera. And I was explaining to them, sometimes a team just has your number. They just have it and you have to be able to.

[B]

You talking about. In relation to the Bills?

[C]

To the Bills, I'm saying.

[B]

Cause they have everyone's number recently.

[C]

Who?

[B]

The Texans? Yeah, the Texans.

[C]

Yeah. But I'm saying if we're saying the Bills are the ones that we think actually get there out the afc.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The only people that they could possibly lose to, in my opinion, is a team that may just have their number in the Texans and with the Texans. But now, now, obviously the Bills will have home court advantage. I mean, home field advantage. Sorry. And that Buffalo snow is a whole. You gotta. There's some mental things you have to get through there.

[B]

So that's. The Texans also have a quarterback who you believe can be special. At least I believe.

[C]

I believe in Stroud. I believe in Stroud.

[B]

Stroud. Since he was in college, I remember thinking, even when they would lose a game, I did not believe the game was over. If he was in the game until the game was over, I always felt like they had a chance. And he's giving me the same feeling in the NFL.

[C]

Yeah. Because even with his rough patch this year, you've never seen him get out of his hookup. He just didn't. And that defense, they have, Will Anderson, Danielle Hunter, Stingley, When I look at that, and obviously I have many more, but when I look at that defense, to me, those guys aren't just talented. Cause, you know, talent is one thing. And I've been through this with players, and I always say to them, it's so hard to win because it's not about what you do at the facility as much as it is about what you do when you're home. You get to decide what those hours look like. So when you go home as a professional athlete, and we got this team coming up, if you in your mind say to yourself, you know what? We had film. I sat with my coaches after practice, et cetera. So now when I get home, I'm just gonna do whatever I want, we're in trouble because this is not.

[B]

That's such a good point.

[C]

This is not an individual sport. If I don't go home and do the extra credit work for my teammates, we are in trouble. And I believe that those guys on the defensive end, the Will Andersons, the Danil Hunters, those guys rally those guys and really have a group chat and talk about things, because that's what the outcome is.

[B]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel. Tis the season to be boosting on FanDuel because this year, you're getting seven straight days of holiday rewards, each one waiting in the app for you to unwrap. And every day brings a new way to play. So keep checking in to see what drops next. And it all leads to the Christmas Day special, where you can get something extra special. Seven days of gifts, one big finale. Head to FanDuel.com gameover to get in the holiday spirit. FanDuel play your game must be 21 and over and present in select states or 18 and over and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit bonus boost tokens Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See [e-mail] gambling problem call 1-800-gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash Chatincenectic when you were a kid, were you the type of kid who did your homework in school? And I read your book, by the way. Did you do your. If you got homework, would you do it?

[C]

I did my. Yeah, absolutely. First of all, here's the thing about me. Yeah, I hated missing school. And I never thought it was cool to be a dummy.

[B]

Right. Well, me neither. But.

[C]

And what I mean by that is, yeah, most people aren't dummies. It's.

[B]

Well, that's debatable. But.

[C]

Yeah, but here's what I'll say, okay, you cannot be as smart as someone else. But if you put the effort in.

[B]

Yes, people are interesting. They have thoughts they can develop.

[C]

So, no, I did. Yeah, I did my homework everywhere when.

[B]

I was a kid. I didn't do my homework till I got older. When I was a kid, I didn't. I just didn't do it. And as I got older, my late great brother Sam brought this up to me later. He was like, you know what to do? A kid who does their homework is actually exercising independence. Independence. Like, if you have. You can think, I'm gonna make my kids sit there and do your, you know, you try to structure it.

[C]

You shouldn't have to.

[B]

That might work, or it might not work, but how you structure your own free time is a big thing in your life. And what you just said about the players, like, it's not at the facility, it's at home. That is a player who has a strong degree of independence, actually, and the kind of guy you want on your team because.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Because his independence is exercised in a way to make himself the best he can be.

[C]

I was just talking to some young. They was college students. And the guy and the young man asked me, like, to give him a couple gyms. And they were talking about school. And I said the same thing. I said, you know, you're not gonna use what you learn in school pretty much in real life. I don't know. The last time I used the MLA format to write anything or the Optuse or ti. 83, 82, 84, whatever. To do a math problem. Right. But I said to them, I said, but the foundational habits, getting to school on time, paying attention in school and listening to a teacher and being coachable.

[B]

And training yourself how to think. Also the exact information is not important. It's training your brain, getting your brain, the reps in terms of how to think about stuff.

[C]

Yes. And I can tell you, most guys don't.

[B]

Most are not independent enough to turn their home life into the job.

[C]

And now when the superstar guy doesn't get there, that person gets all the blame. But what we're not taking into consideration is what did the teammates do when they were at home? Because during the course of a game, you come out of a timeout. Especially in basketball. The most important thing in basketball is after timeout execution.

[B]

Yeah, the coach could be there's points left. You can either leave the points on the board there or you can put.

[C]

Them on the board there. And when you're evaluating talent, right. Most of these guys look at a mock draft and want to go after the top guy because he's that. But you really have to evaluate a lot of different things. And one of those is that. And these teams are starting to evaluate that even more now because they just.

[B]

So a dude like Maxey, when you see him coming up, you're like, that dude is going to do what it takes.

[C]

Maxi.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What right do you know? We trained during COVID right? Tyrese Maxey, during COVID was doing two a days. During COVID sometimes three a days. He was never late and never complained. And by the way, and how old.

[B]

Was he at this time? He was like 19, 20 years old.

[C]

And the draft, that year was postponed. So Normally you have 45 days of pre draft. We had six months, right? So for six months, that's discipline, boy.

[B]

And passion.

[C]

And I'm calling teams. I'm calling teams. And I'm saying, what you talking to me about a three point percentage, this guy.

[B]

Everything's gonna come. It reminds me of what Kobe would say about how he would be the same age as someone else who was almost like they're around the same level. But he would think, I'm gonna get up, I'm gonna get to the gym at 5am and I'm gonna get two hours extra in before he does. I'm paraphrasing. But he goes. And then, you know, five years later, that guy can never catch up to me.

[C]

Philly was gonna trade that pick And I called and I told Elton Brandt for sure, he'll tell you. I cannot lie on our. On our pod. I said, elton, I'm telling you right now, if this guy gets to you, you better take him. Because he should have been gone.

[B]

Right?

[C]

He should have been.

[B]

God, where did he go? What number did he go?

[C]

21.

[B]

Oh, right. Damn.

[C]

But when you think about it, 21.

[B]

I don't even remember 21.

[C]

I think Detroit took Killian Hayes. Cause he. Oh, he would know this because he's Detroit. As far as guards, I forgot who the Knicks took.

[B]

Was that the draft where they took.

[C]

French dude, not Nicolina.

[B]

No, it wasn't. Nikolina. What draft?

[C]

No, that was Donovan Mitchell draft.

[B]

Oh, that was the Donovan Mitchell draft.

[C]

Yeah. No, but this draft, I forgot who the Knicks took. But the Pelicans took.

[B]

Is that's how you say his name? Nikolina. I forgot.

[C]

Cause the Knicks had two picks. Cause they took quickly later on. But it was somebody they took before that. I don't remember. I'm having a brain freeze. I normally remember this stuff, but nevertheless.

[B]

After a couple years, I get the years confused.

[C]

And New Orleans took the kid from Alabama. It was a kid from Alabama. New Orleans took. And then it just kept going and kept going.

[B]

They got a high lottery pick. 21.

[C]

Oh, yeah. I mean, if you did a redraft today. If you just did a redraft, we should do this sometime.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Ant still goes one.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And then it's between Tyrese Maxey and Tyrese Halliburton for two.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[C]

I think they go two and three.

[B]

Yeah. If you pick the one, Maxey probably goes three in that draft. Probably. Cause Halliburton's got a little size on him.

[C]

Right. I mean, in that case, I'd rather be one or three. I don't want to be two in that draft. I want to be one or three in that redraft. But yeah, so that matters.

[B]

So there's one more thing on football. And then I got a question for you about this LeBron Carmelo stuff that I want to get to, because this is from Monday Night Football. And if I don't bring it up now, I don't know when I will. But it's been on my mind watching Aaron Rodgers against Miami on Monday. So I did a radio show, a morning show on ESPN Radio with Keyshawn and J. Will for a couple years. And key is an old, old school, Parcells type football head. And the greatest thing about this job is and working in sports media. If I'm calling a fight, I'm sitting next to Roy Jones or Andre Ward or Emanuel Stewart, right? I mean, the education you get is absurd, right? If I do a radio show, there's Key and J Will, right? And you're around Key for two years. And everyone, the analytics guys could have their opinions about the old school football heads and vice versa. But if you think you're not gonna get an education sitting next to a Super bowl winner, number one draft pick, great player in his prime, all that stuff, who was like one of Parcell's favorites, you can't help but to get an education in football. And one of the things Key used to stress. And I grew up a Parcells fan. Cause I was a Giants fan, right? So to me, that's how football is done.

[C]

Hold on. Sham is calling me again. I gotta take this.

[B]

I love these in show calls.

[C]

Well, it's my guy when you call.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[C]

He's not calling for nothing. What's up? You got something? Cause I'm shooting. All right, I'll call you right back.

[B]

Did he say yes? You can reveal whether he said yes or not. Plead the Fifth. Okay, where was I?

[C]

Yeah, you're saying Keyshawn.

[B]

So he loves that old school parcel's way of doing football, right? And that was like music to my ears because that's what I grew up on watching. And one thing he would talk about with a quarterback is nowadays everyone's rushing the quarterback, right? You gotta win on your rookie deal. Not even true. I mean, you can take advantage of a rookie deal, but the fact is, in the NFL, usually it's the veteran quarterback superstar who wins the Super Bowl. Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, whoever it is. And so he was saying, year one, when you get a quarterback, you just want him to know how to drive to the stadium. Year two, he's going to get into games, he's probably going to start. You want him to not mess it up, right? You throw the ball away, that's a good play. Don't turn the ball over. Don't do foolish stuff. Don't take unnecessary hits. By year three, you have to know what you're doing. And by year four, you see what you got right now, you know? And Aaron Rodgers on Monday Night Football reminded me of the type of quarterback he would describe in year three, right. In that progression. It was a terrible weather game. It was. He. Both defenses were playing well.

[C]

It looked so cold out here. It looked.

[B]

It was.

[C]

It was.

[B]

It looked miserable. And Aaron Rodgers.

[C]

And I'm From Cleveland.

[B]

Man, he played perfect. Like, to me, remember when I said Chris Paul played like perfect. Larry Brown, point guard. To me, that looked like perfect. Bill Parcells developing a good quarterback football, not making any mistakes really. When called upon to make a play that you needed to make, he had the talent, the ability to do it right. So he made two or three gems in that game and otherwise played smart game manager football. And I remember thinking to myself in a way that makes him more alive to make a real playoff run this year than some of the years when he was the, you know, the best thing anyone had ever seen, when he could do much more because. And he didn't make a lot of mistakes then either. But it reminded me of the kind of football that wins in December, that wins in January, like that wins when it matters most. And it made me think with Tomlin as coach of the Steelers, chances differently.

[C]

You know, I was watching the warmups of that game, I was like, damn, it's cold, cold. But then I thought about Aaron Rodgers and I'm like, oh, this is like, Aaron Rodgers is like, he has on like, you know, like swimming trunks, frozen tundra. He played in Green Bay for all those years. But to your point, at Aaron Rodgers age and obviously he's not able to do the things he used to be able to do. But one thing he can do is deliver that football. And if he gets the protection, he's gonna deliver that football. His stint with the jets, he just didn't get the protection.

[B]

But also you don't need because he is where he is in age now and he's not what he once was. You're not gonna overly rely on that as a team. So it's complimentary football at a high level.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And winning, winning playoff style football.

[C]

But really it's Steelers football.

[B]

Yeah, it is traditionally.

[C]

See, it's traditionally Steelers football. The Steelers has always managed the football game in a way in which they're executing offensively at a high level and then their defense is just not gonna let you score. I mean, it's gonna be tough. So it's not like you never saw the Steelers outside of when they had Rando l do a trick play and this and that. That's not.

[B]

Although Tomlin's been, I give him credit because he's had all different kinds of.

[C]

Illustration of this team, a number of different things.

[B]

Yeah, Always competitive and in different ways through the years.

[C]

But when they want, when the Steelers.

[B]

Were, when they were on top, they.

[C]

Play very high level, high execution, hard nosed football. And so and if you go all.

[B]

The way to Terry Bradshaw, because that's the way the game was played back then, when you needed him to make a play, he would. But it wasn't all about him making the big splash play all the time.

[C]

I can't speak on Terry. I can speak on Terry's throwback jersey because I definitely had that, which was fire.

[B]

When I was a little, little kid.

[C]

Terry play.

[B]

When I was a little, little kid, I was a Steelers fan because.

[C]

Wait, can I ask?

[B]

They won the super bowl every year.

[C]

When was Terry Bradshaw's last year?

[B]

Late 70s sometimes.

[C]

I wasn't born before your time. Before my time.

[B]

Yeah. Watched. They used to have a morning show, the Great Spence Coasters for children. When I was really little, Mean Joe Green would show up on it.

[C]

Yeah. When I was really little watching football, the TV was like the size of this microphone and the men looked like. I mean, so you had to get. I think that's. Yeah, I don't wear glasses. Yeah.

[B]

That little black and white tv. I remember in my mother and father's bedroom they had a 13 inch color TV and that was called the big TV when I was little. Wanna go see it on the big tv?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Technology's come a long way.

[C]

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[A]

This episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Vuori, I gotta say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably going to see me wearing some Vuori Sunday performance joggers that they have. It's made with four way performance stretch fabric, one of the most comfortable things you own. You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to Vuori.com Simmons and you get 20% off your first purchase with Vuori. V-U-O-R-I.com Simmons. Enjoy. Free shipping on all US orders over $75 plus free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. This episode is brought to you by Salty Cheesy Cheez It Crackers. Should this whole podcast just be me eating Cheez It? That would be a top notch podcast. You could hear them crunching in my mouth. You could think about how salty and savory and delicious they are. You can just get Cheez it on the brain. Oh, man, those Cheez it cravings, they get you. Anyway, what was I talking about?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, Cheez It. Yeah, Cheez It. Crackers. Go check them out.

[B]

Now we get to the juicy stuff.

[C]

Oh, God.

[B]

There's a clip going around.

[C]

There's clips going around every. There's so many clips.

[B]

You know which one I'm talking about? Whether or not LeBron and Melo were a rivalry. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[C]

I saw it. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie.

[B]

I saw it. What do you think? Was it a rival? Was Melo and Bron a rivalry, yes or no?

[C]

I think Brandon Jennings was right. I think Brandon. You know the thing Brandon Jennings is right about a lot of. He's very astute with his basketball knowledge.

[B]

I gotta tell you the truth. I think a lot of these guys, like the former athletes doing podcasts nowadays, make a lot of good points that wouldn't have used to get. Didn't used to get made. And I think the rappers who got podcasts too, because they're not afraid to tell the truth.

[C]

There's also a lot of hating to. Envious hating, you know, side, whatever.

[B]

In this case, what do you think?

[C]

But in this case, I think Brandon Jennings was right. He was right. And the reason why he was right is because of not anything that has to do with Carmelo or LeBron's basketball play. It's actually what they don't control. And this is what people don't understand. The moment the Detroit Pistons decided to take Darko Milichek, the opportunity of a rivalry is dead.

[B]

If he would have gone to Detroit.

[C]

Because now we see each other four times a year. We're going to see each other in the playoffs. You're going to beat me, I'm going to beat you. That's actually.

[B]

If he would have gone to Detroit, he would have been whooping on LeBron.

[C]

Of course they had the better team because now you. But this is what I'm saying. These guys have to get drafted somewhere. They don't control where they get drafted. If you. And in this case, I mean, look, as great as I love Joe D, I'm sure if you asked Joe D, he probably was like, you know what, man, we had so much. I just probably.

[B]

And Carmelo was a pressure player in college. Freshman wins the championship.

[C]

But the thing about it Is the.

[B]

Thing about joining a great defensive team.

[C]

Right now, you had every piece. You had chance as the point guard Rip, he's running around off of these, you know, screens. I mean, he never stopped like the roadrunner of the NBA.

[B]

Once they added Rasheed Wallace. They had.

[C]

You had Rasheed, you had Ben Wallace.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But when you just plug Carmelo.

[B]

Kayshaun Prince, though, a lot of defense there.

[C]

But guess what they was embarrassment of riches. Yeah, they had an embarrassment of riches to the point to where.

[B]

That's our first embarrassment of riches.

[C]

They had embarrassment of riches to the point to where, if we're really being honest, they could have brought Carmelo off.

[B]

The bench as a young player, let him develop as a six man. Oh, my God, you're right.

[C]

And now you're right.

[B]

When you talk about tired starters playing.

[C]

Against young Carmelo, man, what was Melo great at? Catching and shooting. Yeah, he's Carmelo.

[B]

Well, offensively, he was great at everything.

[C]

But what I'm saying. I'm just saying his catching, he can adapt to any type of style offensively. Okay, you want to put a smaller guy on me, I'm going to post him. When he face up and rip through at that young age, he was dunking on. He was dunking it. So I agree with Brandon Jennings because of that reason. But here's the thing. These guys don't get to choose. So then I saw another clip.

[B]

Not.

[C]

Coming out in a draft. No.

[B]

But then he faced the moment of truth later where he did get to choose when he was in the back.

[C]

But we can't. We don't. I don't want to talk about that. That's a different story, Rich.

[B]

It's part of the story. Because when he looks at the Knicks and says, I want to go there, if he, like the Knicks have the leverage, if they don't throw everyone into that deal, then when he gets to the Knicks, they got more in the cupboard. And maybe, maybe, who knows?

[C]

Look, I think that.

[B]

Or if he goes joins your guys in Miami, like, he made certain choices later.

[C]

Well, look, again, not from Carmelo perspective, but I think as a player, as a player in any sport, I think we get caught up in this thing of like, man, I'm going to do it on my own. And by the way, nope. People will say, oh, well, you're just saying that because of LeBron. No, I'm the biggest LeBron critic of all critics. I'm the one that I did not like going to Miami. D. Wade told the story. I didn't speak to him and Chris Bosh at all. I was furious. But I was wrong. And let me tell you why I was wrong. Because you don't get to choose where you're drafted. Right? And in most cases, most athletes aren't evaluating all things because they don't have the autonomy when you become a player, that the market is the league, meaning my market is all 30 teams.

[B]

Everyone wants me.

[C]

Everyone wants me. That takes a different approach towards everything. Now you have to evaluate things a lot different because I had that opportunity. If you get there and you're not recognizing that opportunity, then that's on you. Because the mindset is the true luxury. People think, oh, luxury is costing a lot of. It's having things that cost a lot of money. No, it's the way you think. And this is what I know the luxury is having things cost a lot of money. Is that same guy who goes to Hermes and buy a throw and use it as a rug. That's not a rug, guy. That's a throw that belongs on the back of your couch. Right. But yet still you go. And the guy has a throw under a coffee table because it costs a lot of money, but he don't know the difference between a throw and a ruck. That's where you have to put that pride in the hookah pipe and smoke it.

[B]

So Carmelo put. Put a Hermes blanket.

[C]

No, no.

[B]

Under his table.

[C]

No, he did not do that.

[B]

Why would he.

[C]

No, he did not do that. We're talking about if you. I'm answering your question of if you said, do I agree or disagree with Carmelo and LeBron being rivals. And I disagree.

[B]

They're not.

[C]

They were never.

[B]

They were never rivals.

[C]

No. And we get caught up.

[B]

And it's not all Carmelo's fault.

[C]

No, we get caught up.

[B]

They could have been.

[C]

Detroit passed on Carmelo.

[B]

Right.

[C]

He didn't tell Detroit to pass on.

[B]

And in fact. In fact, there's added significance. Of course Carmelo goes second. Like, of course LeBron goes first of all. It just so happens the team that's picking second was perfect.

[C]

Well, here's the thing. Carmelo won a national championship that year. Yeah.

[B]

I met you. If Jerry McNamara.

[C]

If the number one pick isn't the Cleveland Cavaliers, now you got a real issue. Because even though I think most people would have still took LeBron.

[B]

No, LeBron's going one.

[C]

I understand that. But still, he had all the accolades to be in the conversation.

[B]

He was in the conversation. And the conversation went like this. LeBron won Carmelo 2.

[C]

Fair point.

[B]

Yeah. And that's why the Detroit thing didn't make sense.

[C]

Exactly. So now Detroit skips over Carmelo and we get caught up because they were. If you're ranking the talent in the draft, yes, they were 1 and 2. So we want that to be a rivalry. Right. But there was no.

[B]

It's Carmelo's. So in the first six, seven years of his career, through no fault of his own, he wasn't in the right situation.

[C]

They never really met up in the playoffs after that.

[B]

He could have made better choices.

[C]

That's on him. I had nothing to do with that. But what I'm saying is the rivalry was not there because of that whole thing. Now, once either you gotta meet in the finals or you have to meet in the playoffs. The other thing, too, is over time, it definitely wasn't a rivalry because LeBron was skipped over. Like, a lot of things were skipped over. And he went all the way here to people that wasn't even his peers. He was being held to a standard of people that wasn't even his peers. One was gone, was a ghost Michael Jordan, and the other one was Kobe. Right. And we all wanted that. When the Muppets came out the commercial and they wanted to play in the finals in 09. And again, going back to. I think I seen somebody say something. I'm like, no. When they lost in 2009, that had everything to do with the way they lost in 2008. When the Cavs lost in 2008, they lost to a Celtics team that had P.J. brown played out of his mind in that series you had.

[B]

Come on.

[C]

The Cavs did not.

[B]

The Cavs shouldn't have even gotten as far as they did.

[C]

But here's what I'm saying. Then you come back 2009, preparing for who the team you lost to in 2008. And you run into a team with one in and four out in terms of the Magic, Turkoglou, Rashad, Lewis, Nelson. And they had. What's my guy name?

[B]

09.

[C]

The French kid, Michael forgot his name. And then they had Dwight Howard.

[B]

So now it's been to the 09 Magic roster. Oh, the Dwight Howard team. Yeah.

[C]

But now you're thinking about to run up against this 08 team. Cause just because a team got to the Eastern Conference Finals, belts for one.

[B]

Team and you run into another. And also Dwight Howard was at his absolute peak. Yes.

[C]

But it didn't matter because. Because you don't have the personnel. So now. But what I learned from that thing at that moment was. And this is what I always talk about. You have to have depth, enough depth to fight any style. You have to be able to fight any style in the playoffs. And then you have to have players that are willing to understand, especially six to ten, if you're playing a ten man rotation, probably eight man rotation, but if you have the depth to go 10, okay, great, or nine, great. That guy. Those guys in that six to 10 range, they have to be willing to understand. This may not be my series and I may not play. Because I'm going to tell you, when the Cavs traded for. When they made the trade for iman Shumpert and J.R. smith, they was not making that trade. The trade was going to be Andre Roberson from the Thunder. And I remember talking about this and I always liked J.R. smith with.

[B]

A.

[C]

LeBron team because I felt like if he just concentrated on being able to catch and shoot, he was. I mean, you've seen him in McDonald's game or whatever. We were at Atrium this before with Ronnie Fee, who now owns Kith. Before it was ever a Kith, we was at Atrium and I was there with Randy and I were there and I just happened to run into J.R. i never knew I was going to see J.R. but I had been having these conversations and it all boiled down to if they felt like, man, you know, you bringing JR along because he had had whatever baggage at the time, et cetera. And I'm like, no, athleticism and shooting is what's always needed athleticism and shooting. And I left out the store. And before I left and JR contested this, I said to JR see you in Cleveland. I said to JR see you in Cleveland. He's like, what? He has no idea what I'm talking about. And I say to him, see you in Cleveland. And I think it was like a couple weeks later he get traded. But they didn't want J.R. smith. J.R. smith was a throw in to that trade. And the only reason why they really decided to make the trade was because we knew that we can handle JR Smith in terms of LeBron knew he can handle JR Smith in the locker room. And I known JR since he was 17 years old. You get what I'm saying?

[B]

I mean, the talent that J.R. had to just even be able to acquire him.

[C]

Yes, but what I'm saying is at that time he wasn't.

[B]

The talent wasn't manifesting, but it was still like, I'm just telling you from where I was sitting, oh, they got J.R. smith.

[C]

But, but, but no one else thought that in that. But in that front office. Junior Smith was a throw in to that trade because you're looking at the A defensive wing in Amman Shumpert, which was great.

[B]

Yeah. Who knew that J.R. smith would wind up being a perimeter defender in addition to that.

[C]

Do you remember at first Iman was starting?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[C]

J.R. was coming off the bench when it was under black and then TLU obviously switched it around. But yeah, no. So I say all that to say no. It was not a rivalry, unfortunately, because of where the draft went. But sometimes, you know, when you go one and three in a draft, people want to create this thing. And it's like I feel bad for.

[B]

Carmelo not only because of the Detroit thing, but because Carmelo Anthony was a perfect scoring machine. Like Carmelo Anthony could do anything in terms of scoring the ball, like offense. I mean scoring the ball. And as a matter of fact, as a passer was underrated at his very best. I thought.

[C]

Anyway, Carmelo was a hell of a ball player.

[B]

But he's.

[C]

And it's unfortunate because he's one. He's. He's definitely one person for me that I would have loved see win a for me.

[B]

But his. This is, this is the other thing that went sideways for him to me, in terms of the way how it panned out. His game was built on a certain kind of NBA.

[C]

Yes, it was.

[B]

And then out from under his feet, the league changed. I think one of this is one of the reasons that the analytics crowd doesn't fully appreciate Kobe.

[C]

Carmelo could have played in any. It didn't matter.

[B]

But I understand. But I mean his level, had the NBA not been changing the way it did, would have been even higher.

[C]

Okay, so you said to say what?

[B]

So I'm saying that. So it's two things. One, he didn't get drafted into where he's supposed to get drafted. It would have changed things. And two, his style of play. And what I was saying about Kobe is the analytics crowd tends to underrate Kobe Bryant because that kind of ISO ball was not as efficient as the way the league went. But it underestimates like what level was attained in that spot.

[C]

Could you imagine? Could you Im just think about something.

[B]

You're saying like Carmelo attained a level of play that was absurd.

[C]

Yes, but he didn't only just have ISO ball.

[B]

No, of course.

[C]

What I'm saying is could you imagine him playing in a Draymond Green role?

[B]

Right.

[C]

Like forget about it.

[B]

I mean Shaq even talks about watching Giannis and thinking why wouldn't anyone let Me do some of that stuff. Game changes. But when the game changes out from under someone's feet, like in the middle of their prime, it's tough to adapt to that.

[C]

But when you can shoot the ball the way that Carmelo Anthony could shoot the ball, you'll always, there is no game changing shooting.

[B]

You could always figure it out.

[C]

Whether it was George Mikan or Wemby, it don't matter.

[B]

So we have a big sports weekend coming up and real quick, Jake Paul, Anthony Joshua.

[C]

Now I want to ask you about that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Mr. Boss boxing expert.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Why would Jake Paul fight Anthony Joshua?

[B]

Good question. Jake Paul starts his career as a YouTuber. He's a Disney kid, right? First of all, this dude's got people are like, pro or con Jake Paul? Pro Jake Paul. Jake Paul takes the sport seriously, trains seriously. He's a big puncher and I would say he has developed himself into a solid if he wasn't famous already. He's a solid like eight round cruiserweight puncher, right? But if you're Jake Paul and you got this multimillion dollar business by fighting another YouTuber, how do you keep selecting opponents to capture the public's imagination? You can't just fight another boxer. You're not experienced enough in the beginning. And the type of dude you'd match up with has no name cuz he's also inexperienced. You can't make a big event. So he's a brilliant guy. This way he's like, okay, first I'll fight another youtuber, now I'll fight an athlete. Not good enough. Cause he's too much, too good for them. He's serious. Now I'll fight a combat sports athlete, but not a striker. I'm not up to that yet. Does that. Now I'll fight a combat sports athlete who is a striker, but he's old, right? He did that a couple times. Eventually he works himself up into fighting another boxer, Tommy Fury. Tyson Fury, the heavyweight champ's half brother. And he's also like a reality star. And he's not necessarily a full time, but he's like, he can box and he beats Jake. That's Jake's loss. Now Jake goes back to fighting the Combat sports strikers again. He builds himself back up, fights a few actual boxers, fighting fringy kind of boxers. But now he has to keep making big events, right? So what does he do? He takes a great fighter who's ancient. Mike Tyson, almost 60 years old, right?

[C]

That got so many views. That was crazy. Still was Mike Tyson. It's so crazy. How dynamic and how much of a draw. Mike Tyson, no question. Still, we know Mike Tyson. He cannot do anything in the ring that he remotely ever did.

[B]

No, it's ridiculous.

[C]

Yeah, but still. But listen, Jake Paul is my Ohio bread. You know he's from Ohio, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This is serious, you know? What are you doing this weekend? I mean, I'm sure you got to watch this fight.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Tomorrow night I'm going to. Going to. Actually, someone who's on the show with. On the. On the boxing show with me inside the ring is hosting. Mike Kyle hosting a fight party. Yeah. You want to come Friday night?

[C]

It's a lot of college football on, a lot of basketball on.

[B]

I got to watch it. So to finish the point quickly, Mike Tyson, he's ancient right now. He's going to fight Gervonta Davis, who's like a little. Little guy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And when that fight fell apart, he had the guts to say, okay, you want me to fight a guy bigger than me who's like, not ancient?

[C]

I tip my hat to the brother.

[B]

But if he gets out of the first round, he wins.

[C]

This is a real guy.

[B]

Anthony Joshua. Anthony Joshua fought Francis Ngannou, who was a big time UFC fighter and a striker and a big, strong dude, and almost decapitated him. And Jake Paul is half a foot shorter than Anthony Joshua. He's outweighed by 20 or 30 pounds. He has very little experience. AJ is an Olympic gold medalist. He's a former heavyweight champ. If Jake Paul makes it to the third round, that's the same thing as winning.

[C]

He's going to need again, my Ohio bredren. He's going to need a really hot bath.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Really hot bath. And speaking of hot baths.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[C]

Because, you know, I've been playing all this golf and my back. But I always wondered this. Why is it that when a woman takes a bath, why is the water so much hotter?

[B]

They need it so much hotter.

[C]

No, it's like scorching hot.

[B]

Or if you get into the shower with. It's like, I can't.

[C]

But the shower is one thing. No, no, no, no.

[B]

It's too hot.

[C]

But here's what I'm saying. It's too hot with the shower. You can dance in and out with the bath. My mother and I, it's like, man, I miss my mother so much.

[B]

What made you think of this?

[C]

But because I've been having to. Oh. Because playing golf, you know, you get sore a lot and you have to take a bath.

[B]

Does Adele draw a bath for you? How's that work?

[C]

Come on, Max.

[B]

Well, come on. You brought it up. I didn't bring it up.

[C]

All I'm saying to you is this. When my. When I was a kid, my mother used to run the bathwater.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And it was one of those things where I'm damned if I don't, and I'm damned if I do, because there's obviously, you know, there's only one bathroom in the house. There's a traffic jam getting into the tub. Right. You have to get it in and out quick and wash the tub out quick to get the next kid in there. But the water is so hot I can't get in. So now I'm on the clock.

[B]

Right. What happens if you don't get in?

[C]

I mean, you catch it from your mom today if. What happened that I did get. Yeah, of course. Well, yeah.

[B]

Child Protective Services. Yeah.

[C]

All of them will show up at the SWAT team.

[B]

Same, by the way. Same.

[C]

But what I'm saying is now I had to decide. And the water was always so hot.

[B]

Yeah. And then it's like the scene where the. Where whatever is coming to get the who and they get to the cliff and you look at the. You look at whoever you jump off.

[C]

Like it's too hot. This is not a hot tub. This is a bath. This is crazy. So I'm at this inflection point, but. Yeah. So I've been having to, you know, because it's just a whole long story, but.

[B]

So now you can make the bath.

[C]

The way you want, but now I actually want the water hot and I can't. Yes. I'm caught between a rock and a hard place here.

[B]

You brought up Friday night or it's Friday night. Tonight. Tonight. I said Friday night before. It's. Tonight is the fight. And it's also Jake Paul and Anthony Joshua. And it's also Oklahoma and Alabama. Oklahoma.

[C]

It's gonna be a really good game. I'm picking Alabama, but I think I.

[B]

Like all the home teams.

[C]

But Mattier. Is Mattier playing?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yes. Okay. Well, I'm picking Alabama, but if Oklahoma won, I wouldn't be surprised.

[B]

You could say that about Miami and Texas A and M, too.

[C]

Texas A and M is tough. Miami's deep. Ah, that's a tough one, too.

[B]

I like. I just like the home teams. I like. Like, these are close games. Texas A and M, they're well matched.

[C]

Texas A and M playing some good ball.

[B]

I love the, uh.

[C]

I love the U, but. Yeah, Texas A and M playing some good ball.

[B]

I like. I like Oklahoma and Texas A and.

[C]

M. It's gonna be a good weekend, though.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. We'll see if we can't get you over to the fight.

[C]

What time the fight is tonight?

[B]

They walk.

[C]

Where does it start?

[B]

8:00-Clock-Local time.

[C]

Is it gonna start on time? You know, sometimes it's.

[B]

No, no, it probably won't. I'm guessing 8:30.

[C]

8:30?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

All right, I'll text you.

[B]

All right.

[C]

I'll text you.

[B]

I'll see you on Monday, if not.

[C]

If not. No.

[B]

Oh, no, no. We're gonna see each other this weekend. All right. We'll see them on. Or they'll see us on Monday.

[C]

Monday. Yeah. Perfect.

[B]

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[C]

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