← Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul
Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul
Emergency Game Over! LaMelo Ball Traded, and More NBA Stories.
00:46:53
Loading summary
Transcript319 lines
- [00:02]
Max Kellerman
Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck and the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister. Ones who always show up. They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet together, let's drive. Visit chevy.com trucks to explore the lineup.
- [00:29]
Rich Kleiman
Whether you're watching your favorite NBA team at the arena, the bar, or hanging at home, grab an ice cold Michelob Ultra and enjoy every moment of the NBA season. Stock up today and watch your team drop buckets with a bucket full of
- [00:46]
Max Kellerman
ice cold Ultra Michelob Ultra Superior light beer. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch Michelob Ultra registered light beer St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 plus to order alcohol.
- [00:57]
Rich Kleiman
Alcohol available only in select markets.
- [01:16]
Max Kellerman
Rich, I'm sorry to drag you off the golf course. I know you probably took the helicopter from Governor's island or wherever you were golfing with some luminary.
- [01:24]
Rich Kleiman
No, I was out at 7 this morning.
- [01:26]
Max Kellerman
But this is. You are. You were at seven. See, that was a joke. But he hasn't. You have an issue, but he has an issue. Rich, this is an emergency pod today. We weren't even supposed to go today, but come on, this stuff going on. Lamelo ball. Traded.
- [01:42]
Rich Kleiman
Yes. Are you surprised?
- [01:45]
Max Kellerman
I don't know if I could say I'm. Yeah. Well, you know what it is now. I've had enough hours to digest it. Now I'm not surprised. Was I surprised when I heard it? Yes. Yes, I was.
- [01:55]
Rich Kleiman
Here's the thing. When you take on a new team, which Jeff Peterson has done, Rick Snob the owners and Gabe, you have to sit back and you have to say, okay, let's see what we have. Nice guys. I thought they had a really good year this year, especially towards the end, they turned it up.
- [02:13]
Max Kellerman
That's why. That's the surprise. Basketball con canopy parachutes in there, all of a sudden they believe they can win. He had an incredible year. And. And they're in the playoffs and it's like, oh, watch out for the Hornets.
- [02:25]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, but. But if you sat down and you really dissected the entire season and you sat down with coach Lee and probably his staff and you sat in the front office room while they're strategizing, it would probably say to you, you know what? We want to. We want to look different, we want to feel different, want to play a different style of ball, we want to have a different energy around here, a different culture. On top of that, we're not looking to trade Lamelo, but if someone knocks us off our feet with assets.
- [03:02]
Max Kellerman
So let's talk about what they got
- [03:04]
Rich Kleiman
and a player because they got Nas
- [03:07]
Max Kellerman
Reed, they got, they, they gave up Josh Green, who's a sharpshooter.
- [03:12]
Rich Kleiman
And, and Josh Green is more of a Josh Hart ish type of player.
- [03:17]
Max Kellerman
He's, he's taking, he's taking two to three a game and he's hitting one. You know, he's hitting 40 something percent. But, but anyway, but if you stretch
- [03:24]
Rich Kleiman
that over, yeah, he's, it's a nice
- [03:26]
Max Kellerman
little shooting off the bench. But here's the thing, here's the thing, Rich. They get, this was the deal. Lamelo ball And Josh Green, 4nas Reed, you got to make money work and all that stuff. I get it. And the other assets they got, they got a first round unprotected pick, they got three second round picks and they got three first round swaps.
- [03:49]
Rich Kleiman
Right?
- [03:49]
Max Kellerman
So, so now in those years, they're always going to be getting the better first round pick between those two teams. That's a, that's, I think that's a pretty good haul.
- [03:57]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, and they also are because I imagine Lamelo had how many years left on his deal?
- [04:03]
Max Kellerman
Two maybe? Was this not the last one or is there another one after this?
- [04:09]
Rich Kleiman
Maybe he had two. Okay, so you, so you get off that money, you sign Kobe White back. They just drafted the kid, the young man out of Texas Tech, Christian Anderson. So you have some guard play. I imagine they want to play Brandon Miller at the three. Now you have Nas Reed and Diabate. Now you have to figure out, do you keep Miles Bridges, do you trade Miles Bridges? Which they probably will look to send him out, which is fine.
- [04:36]
Max Kellerman
Send the forward, their leading scorer, Brandon Miller. Brandon Miller. Yeah, you mentioned, you mentioned so.
- [04:42]
Rich Kleiman
And you have Khan. So. So now you're looking at a totally different group. The only one there that they did not draft would be Brandon Miller in that case. And this is what happens when you bring in a new, a new regime.
- [04:56]
Max Kellerman
But it's odd because the. It's not. It's reason. Look, if Lamelo is a pain in the ass, right? Like if ownership just. This guy's a pain in the ass, let's get rid of him. Okay, so now you got, you got an unprotected first, you got three first round swaps and you got three second round picks. You have stuff to build with. And I get loving what Khan did to the team last year because he had a Huge influence on both sides of the floor. He's a guy, he's not just a sharpshooter, which he certainly maybe the best shooter in the league. One of them certainly. But he also plays defense. You know, whether or not he's a great defender, he's a good defender and he plays defense. Hard to find a two way player like that. But they had to sit him. I know it's the first appearance and this could totally change in the future. I would be a little bit nervous because they sat him in crunch time in the playoffs this year. And Rich or the play. And the thing about that is it'd be one thing if the other guys, if they had like another true point guard on the team. They kind of have combo guards who can play the point. That's different than losing a premier point guard type player and replacing them with a guy who's not really.
- [06:09]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, but if they structure it a certain way, they could have possibly a $40 million trade exception too, to come along with that. So now you can trade somebody into that.
- [06:23]
Max Kellerman
Into the exception?
- [06:24]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, yeah, into the exception. So that's another asset because there'll be
- [06:27]
Max Kellerman
plenty of guys around the league. Teams around the league. Oh, I can clear, like we can clear this off the books. And now you don't have to match salary and everything. You could just slide it in.
- [06:35]
Rich Kleiman
So. But, and again, Melo, as good as he is, I think you're asking the question of. Yes. Does he put people in seats? Does he? Yes, he does. But at the same time, is there something that maybe the coach didn't see eye to eye on or whatever the case may be? Okay, so you make the decision.
- [06:56]
Max Kellerman
You always made the point that among the, the in the youth market, Melo is a superstar.
- [07:02]
Rich Kleiman
Yes, he is. Yes, he is. And I, you know, I felt like if Melo could get to a place where he can play some winning basketball, he is one of them faces of the league that I'm talking to you about for different reasons.
- [07:16]
Max Kellerman
So let's talk about the destination for him now because from Minnesota's point of view, that's why when you say, are you surprised in retrospect, I'm like, oh, actually this kind of makes sense. Makes a lot of sense because Minnesota has been stuck at a certain level. They were tough out later in the Western Conference playoffs. That's what they've been for a number of years now. Boy, Minnesota is going to be a tough out for someone and at some, they're going to win at least one playoff series and then they're going to be a tough out. And Anthony Edwards has is, you know, creeping into the who's the best player in the game conversation. Right. He wasn't really talked about that way a couple years ago. It was potential. And now it's like his name comes up. Partly because Wemby just lost the way he did to Brunson Jokic. You know, his team got bounced in the playoffs. He's not a defender anyway. It's, you know, the title for best player in the world is vacant to a lot of people. And so, hey, and Edwards is. He throws his. His hat, his name in the. In the hat and his hat in the ring and maybe he's a candidate. But you have a guy like that who's dynamic, by the way, an American player with an easy name for people to pronounce and stuff like that, who's
- [08:33]
Rich Kleiman
a hot, mellow Ant.
- [08:34]
Max Kellerman
Okay, Ant. A high flyer and above the rim, sharpshooting American winning two way player. That's a lot, right? And you could lose him if you don't take the next step. How do you take the next step? They went out and got him a running mate in the backcourt who, if things go right. That's a lot.
- [08:56]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah. So what? So what? What has happened is they now have the number one pick from that draft class and the number three pick, same class, from that draft class. Their deals are aligned. I don't know if Lamelo has an out. I know Ant doesn't have an out. They both signed five year max contracts. And so this is Tim saying, you know what, I'm taking this swing.
- [09:22]
Max Kellerman
How do their games work together?
- [09:24]
Rich Kleiman
I actually think Lamelo matures in Minnesota. I think you see him take a step because Chris Finch is a different type of coach. You're now playing for something. Minnesota is going to have at least six to eight nationally televised games you're playing. The difference is going into Minnesota now, it's not his team, it's Anthony Edwards team. And so that makes you grow up a little bit at the same time also, Ant wants to win. So if you come in there, you know, he's chill, he's cool, but he wants to win. He wants to compete every night. I think that helps Lamelo in different spots of the game, especially where he can grow as it pertains to time and score possessions, value and possessions, making sure you execute every time down, especially five minutes to go in the game. And what kind of offense do you
- [10:22]
Max Kellerman
run with those two guys?
- [10:26]
Rich Kleiman
I think you still want to play fast. You still got Jay McDaniels.
- [10:30]
Max Kellerman
I mean, losing Nas certainly think you want to play fast.
- [10:33]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, I think you want to, but playing fast. Because see, here's what happens. And this is why we lose our identity amongst teams in the league. Everyone wants to play fast, but you got to have your own style. It's like. Like dressing your style is your style, my style is my style. We're not Gomer, pal. So. So playing fast, yes. But playing fast. In moments of the game, you still have to understand how to sort seek out the mismatches. You still have to know when your guy got it going. One night, it may be Jay McDaniel's night. He got it going. Have to feed that guy. You still have to know when to get at in his spot. So this is going to help Melo become a real guard, Real lead guard.
- [11:19]
Max Kellerman
The Timberwolves, when you look at their lineup now, their starting lineup is a lot. They have.
- [11:25]
Rich Kleiman
Well, they lost. They don't have Randall or Reed. So they lost.
- [11:28]
Max Kellerman
Randall might be addition by subtraction fair.
- [11:32]
Rich Kleiman
But what I'm saying is they don't have.
- [11:33]
Max Kellerman
They admit they lost shooting at. At the four, basically at the four spot.
- [11:36]
Rich Kleiman
That's a lot.
- [11:37]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, you could pick up some shooting at the 4. You can't just pick up some shooting.
- [11:40]
Rich Kleiman
This is not whole foods. You can't just go and up.
- [11:43]
Max Kellerman
Okay. But what they definitely have, they have an all world defensive center.
- [11:47]
Rich Kleiman
Yes.
- [11:48]
Max Kellerman
They have an all world defense.
- [11:50]
Rich Kleiman
What they have is 1, 2, 3. They need a 4.
- [11:54]
Max Kellerman
They. They have 1, 2, 3, 5.
- [11:55]
Rich Kleiman
Five.
- [11:56]
Max Kellerman
And they have 1, 2, 3, five. At an exceptionally high level. And what I saw, Terence Shannon, who
- [12:01]
Rich Kleiman
came off the bench and played well in the playoffs, strong lefty, can get to get to the cup, made shots. As long as he keep improving that shot, he's going to make some money in the league.
- [12:11]
Max Kellerman
I'm trying to, I don't know, just McDaniels. Which is why I said that's the key in that matchup with the Nuggets is. And he showed it. Jamal Murray is a proven playoff performer. They put that dude on. Jamal Murray and Jamal Murray. Yeah, right. I.O. there it is.
- [12:28]
Rich Kleiman
I.O. they brought I.O.
- [12:29]
Max Kellerman
back. So they put that dude in. Jamal Murray. Jamal Murray had his first really bad playoffs. I can remember it worked. So if you have a defensive stopper like that who also has an offensive game, you have a. Who's long. You have a backcourt as dynamic. Like it's the most dynamic backcourt in the league by far. Lamelo and Ant and You have a defensive stopper like Gobert. Like, this trade means you. Now, I now look at Minnesota as potentially getting out of the. Like, they can compete with the spurs and okc. And by compete, I don't mean be a tough out. I mean they might beat them.
- [13:06]
Rich Kleiman
We have to see that four, man. Max. We have to see that four.
- [13:09]
Max Kellerman
Going to pick someone up.
- [13:10]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, but you. Again, you say you're going to pick someone up. Who?
- [13:13]
Max Kellerman
I'll figure it out before we're done. I'll figure it out. There's some four out.
- [13:17]
Commercial/Ad Voice
Okay.
- [13:17]
Max Kellerman
You mean to tell me you can't find a four who can hit some shots? Because they got, like, it's. They already have the defense with McDaniels and Gobert. You can't find a four just to hit some shots.
- [13:26]
Rich Kleiman
It's not just a four that can hit some shots. The salary has to fit. Yeah. No, seriously, like, so that's the void that has to be filled because now both of your fours are gone. I can't think. I mean, maybe you can slide into the three, Jade into the four, play IO and mellow in the back court easily. That could be your starting five. You can do that. You come off the bench with Terrence Shannon.
- [13:48]
Max Kellerman
So answer your three.
- [13:49]
Rich Kleiman
Answer three. Right?
- [13:51]
Max Kellerman
I mean, because, like, three, two. Right.
- [13:54]
Rich Kleiman
So. So you can do that.
- [13:55]
Max Kellerman
You need your point guard, you need your center. And the other guys are largely interchangeable nowadays.
- [13:59]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, but that's. If Jaden wants to play the four, and he'll.
- [14:03]
Max Kellerman
You could stick him on the one defensively. What's the difference?
- [14:06]
Rich Kleiman
But spot matters because that guy has to. Really. The four spot.
- [14:10]
Max Kellerman
I think Jaden's a winning player. I think he'll do what he has to do.
- [14:13]
Rich Kleiman
Of course, Seattle kid. They. Those guys know how to play basketball up there. What I'm telling you is the four spot matters so much to winning because that's your screen guy. That's your role, your pop, your short row guy, your dribble handoff guy. That guy can.
- [14:28]
Max Kellerman
McDaniels can do every single thing you need a four to do.
- [14:31]
Rich Kleiman
He has a skill set, too. Yes, but if he hasn't played that position all of his life, that's like we have the orchestra and you take me out the flute and put me on the cello. It's not that easy.
- [14:43]
Max Kellerman
I don't know if it's switching instruments exactly.
- [14:46]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, I think it is, but. Okay.
- [14:48]
Max Kellerman
All right. But listen, anyway, you agree Minnesota got better?
- [14:52]
Commercial/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [14:52]
Rich Kleiman
I mean, you added. They. You. You added Lamello ball.
- [14:55]
Max Kellerman
Yeah. You know, we. We haven't talked about this. In order to get rid of Julius. Think about, think about this. The Knicks trade Julius Randle, and they didn't want to, but they kind of had to trade Dante DiVincenzo.
- [15:08]
Rich Kleiman
Yes. For Cat, though.
- [15:10]
Max Kellerman
For Cat.
- [15:10]
Rich Kleiman
Yes.
- [15:11]
Max Kellerman
That's an amazing.
- [15:12]
Rich Kleiman
They didn't want to trade DiVincenzo.
- [15:13]
Max Kellerman
No, of course. And as a Knick, Anyone who loves you. I love divincenzo. I love. In college and the pros. I love divincenzo when he's healthy, one of the most underrated players in the league because people think he's kind of like, he's just. DiVincenzo is above average at his position. If you take 30 teams, he's better than at least 15 dudes at his position. That's a lot.
- [15:33]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah. And he's tier one of his heart.
- [15:36]
Max Kellerman
Yeah. 100%. And in a big moment, if he's shooting, you love that.
- [15:39]
Rich Kleiman
Yes.
- [15:42]
Max Kellerman
Look at what happened to Minnesota now, just to get rid of Julius Randle. They had to attach draft capital to get rid of the guy that they traded Cat for.
- [15:52]
Rich Kleiman
I know.
- [15:53]
Max Kellerman
That's a disaster.
- [15:54]
Rich Kleiman
Well, yeah, they did.
- [15:56]
Max Kellerman
That's a disaster.
- [15:58]
Rich Kleiman
But, but, but, but.
- [15:59]
Max Kellerman
And yet still, they're in a position where I'm like, they can compete with anyone. Yeah.
- [16:02]
Rich Kleiman
But they also gave up assets to get Lamelo, which is.
- [16:06]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [16:07]
Rich Kleiman
You know, it's hard to find a 6, 7 point guard that can shoot from 40ft out that put. He's going to have. Those kids are going to go crazy in Minnesota.
- [16:16]
Max Kellerman
But this is what I'm saying. And before we go, imagine if this was in LA right now. One of the things that. Before we move to the next topic, one of the things that has me saying, Dr. Jerry Buss, the late, great Dr. Jerry Buss, easily and by far the greatest owner in the history of American team sports. There's no second place. He's in first place by so much. Because it's hard enough. Like when he bought the Lakers, Celtics had more than twice the number of championships the Lakers had when by the time he passed, they were neck and neck. Right. And it's not like the Celtics stopped winning, Celtics continued to win, and the Lakers caught all the way up.
- [16:50]
Rich Kleiman
The Lakers just won more, more.
- [16:52]
Max Kellerman
They just won like twice as much. So. But what was crazy is when he bought the Lakers, he not only tried to win a championship, he tried to do it in a certain way. He wanted Showtime. He want. It's hard enough to win anyway. You're putting restrictions on yourself. Well, I want to win with an exciting style. And you still win more than anyone else. It's insane. The crazy thing to me about the T Wolves right now, and I think maybe the reason there won't be as much the league won't get an enthusiasm bump the way it would if it was in la is when you say you can't always play fast. You have to pick and choose your spots. Well, the late. I mean Kareem would post up. Right. And they would have to slow it down. This is like the Showtime Lakers. A backcourt like this. When you have Lonzo. Sorry, Lonzo. When you have Lamelo Ball playing next to Ant Edwards, that's showtime. And it's not like you ain't got other guys who can run. They can run. That's showtime.
- [17:50]
Rich Kleiman
They have a chance. It's going to be very exciting.
- [17:52]
Max Kellerman
They have a chance to not only win but. But win in an exciting way. Like.
- [17:57]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, but Max, with winning comes maturity. You still have to. Now you have to be. It's not about the talent in the NBA. It's not that. Everything in the NBA is about your professionalism. Can you be a pro night in and night out? I think they can. But I'm just explaining to you what separates the pack. When you look at the Knicks. They're champions. Let's go through it.
- [18:28]
Max Kellerman
Brunson, two time national champion.
- [18:31]
Rich Kleiman
But pro.
- [18:32]
Max Kellerman
Yep.
- [18:33]
Rich Kleiman
Not professional athlete. Pro.
- [18:35]
Max Kellerman
Sure.
- [18:36]
Rich Kleiman
Hart, pro. OG Pro. Mikal Bridges, pro. Karl Anthony Towns, pro.
- [18:45]
Max Kellerman
Mitchell Robinson, who we're going to get to in a second. Yeah.
- [18:47]
Rich Kleiman
And. And for all the things you want to say about Mitchell Robinson, the one thing you have not have to worry about him doing, he goes home, he goes to the. To the gym. That's it. Maybe he plays with his.
- [18:59]
Max Kellerman
Maybe to the farm a little bit.
- [19:00]
Rich Kleiman
Something to the farm, whatever. But. But again, so that's. The distractions are minimal.
- [19:08]
Max Kellerman
No, I'm not saying this guarantees a championship or anything. I'm saying they were in the mix in the Western Conference already.
- [19:16]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, they've been to the Western Conference finals twice.
- [19:18]
Max Kellerman
I believe that they just got better. And the amazing thing is they got better in a way that should increase the fan experience in terms of watching Conley still there.
- [19:29]
Rich Kleiman
Because if he is, that's going to be great for Lamelo.
- [19:32]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [19:32]
Rich Kleiman
I'm telling you.
- [19:33]
Max Kellerman
Lamelo just an issue of his contract.
- [19:36]
Rich Kleiman
Lamelo is going to take a step watch and see what I tell you over these next two years. Oh, Mike's a free agent, but they probably bring Mike back because you got to have. See, when you make a move like this, this is where the veterans are really important.
- [19:51]
Max Kellerman
Mike Conley, one of the best players to never make an All Star Game.
- [19:55]
Rich Kleiman
Right. So in, in the old days, I would say if Terrell Brandon was around for, for Lamelo, just to, just to instill that nourishment, that point guard nourishment in him because he's naturally gifted. No question about it.
- [20:09]
Max Kellerman
Yeah. If he had a little more Mike Conley in his game. Yeah, I get you.
- [20:13]
Rich Kleiman
Because. But you, you have to when you're that talented. I told you this about LeBron. When you're so talented like that, they get bored with the simpleness of it all. But if, if Melo just can add some simple, just a little simple syrup, he'll be fine.
- [20:30]
Commercial/Ad Voice
Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound Tirzepatide may be able Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is Approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15mg injection. Zepbound contains Tirzepatide and should not be used with other Tirzepatide conditions containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor, call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lilly.com
- [22:01]
Rich Kleiman
are all batteries the same? That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take messi the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that?
- [22:13]
Max Kellerman
No, just him.
- [22:15]
Rich Kleiman
Now take Duracell.
- [22:16]
Max Kellerman
Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different. And Messi only trusts Duracell. Now that Giannis has been traded to Miami, not Boston. Right. What happens with Jaylen Brown, do you think, in the Celtics? Now, I know if you were saying, if I own the Celtics, I'd say you're staying put. That doesn't mean he's staying put.
- [22:42]
Rich Kleiman
I understand that. I understand that. But, you know, I know Jalen, and I can pick up the phone and call him. I won't, because it's not my business.
- [22:49]
Max Kellerman
Call him. Let's get him on the show. Right, but.
- [22:50]
Rich Kleiman
But what I would say is, whatever the issue may be, because here's what happens in life, Max, there's a lot of fallouts about things that don't have no. No real weight. Weight to it. Right. It's fools gold. The fallout is there's nothing there.
- [23:11]
Max Kellerman
And it has hurt feelings.
- [23:12]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, whatever. But sometimes you just have to take a step back and if you were in the wrong, say, I'm in the wrong. If you feel like you were being mistreated, have the conversation. But, but, but more importantly, look at what's in front of you. And all I see in front of Jalen Brown is green.
- [23:35]
Max Kellerman
Sometimes.
- [23:35]
Rich Kleiman
That's it.
- [23:36]
Max Kellerman
A lot of times in these situations. And you've been very successful in business, so this may be the way you approach things and feel like you can keep it together. Your answer to something is you want to get everyone in a room, sit down and talk. Right. Which I understand, because sometimes where I
- [23:54]
Rich Kleiman
come from, if two men have an issue, you have a conversation about it. Now, what comes out of that conversation, that's fine. Whether I say F you, you say F me, we send it to each other and we go on about our business. But what we can't do is we can't have an issue and. And never have a conversation, not have a sit down, and let all the people in between, whether it's media or friends and circles and associates and all that affect.
- [24:23]
Max Kellerman
But what if during the sit down, Rich, what happens is, let's say there ideally is a sit down and everything, but what happens is Jaylen Brown is sitting there and Jayson Tatum sitting there. And yes, we want a title together. But hey, you know what? In Jayson Tatum's absence, I grew up. I'd like to know what it is to have my own team. Whatever, like, let's say whatever goes on, it is. It is irreconcilable. Right? And then Jaylen Brown goes. I made.
- [24:49]
Rich Kleiman
There's nothing irreconcilable. There's nothing.
- [24:52]
Max Kellerman
I've made this point on this show before. And I said like several years ago when they had been bounced in the conference finals again and they had not yet won a championship, I was talking on the radio, on espn about the fact that guys, even if it goes three, four more years and they don't win a title, like let's say they get to two or three more conference titles and maybe just to the second round one of those years, and they win some, they lose some. I'm still keeping them together because they'll still both be under 30 and they'll be the most experienced combo in the league. So that's what happened. Except they did win a title the very next year. So I understand very well the argument, hey, do not break this thing up. What I'm saying is, what if that's just where they are and let's say Jaylen just wants out right now. Where does he go? What's the most logical trade partner here?
- [25:44]
Rich Kleiman
Here's the issue. Do you know how Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum got to Boston?
- [25:49]
Max Kellerman
How? Oh, you mean through the, the draft trades you're talking about?
- [25:53]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, Danny A. Traded.
- [25:55]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, of course.
- [25:56]
Rich Kleiman
Okay.
- [25:56]
Max Kellerman
Traded down and got the best player in the draft.
- [25:59]
Rich Kleiman
No, no, but first he traded KG Paul Pierce to Brooklyn. Exactly.
- [26:06]
Max Kellerman
Prokorov at the time thought that you could buy a title, which, I mean good instinct in terms of him wanting to be competitive and win. But it doesn't work in the NBA.
- [26:15]
Rich Kleiman
No, it never works. So with that being said, now you have these two guys. Do you know how hard it is to draft guys? And they actually hit just on this level? I didn't say just hit. Yeah.
- [26:29]
Max Kellerman
How about hit a grand slam and develop them?
- [26:31]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, okay.
- [26:32]
Max Kellerman
They hit two grand slams.
- [26:34]
Rich Kleiman
Now here's the other thing. Do you know how lucky for the. For the. For the luck as a four leaf clover for the. How lucky you have to be to land at one of the most historical franchises in a league and win? Where is the issue? I'm just asking because this is my job. I work in the NBA ecosystem, vortex, whatever you want to call it, Matrix. Every day I've been here for the last 24 years, I've seen guys make decisions based upon what somebody else thought. That has nothing to do with nothing. And don't Know our business.
- [27:18]
Max Kellerman
I see it exactly as you see it, Rich. I'm not arguing they should. I agree with you. Like the case I just made, Even had they not won a championship yet, if they were just getting the conference finals guys, if you've been to six, seven conference finals and you're still under 30 and you're both together, it's actually working. Like, you know, Jordan and Pippen didn't win. Scottie Pippen, you know, until he developed. The point is that whatever we think, if the situation is in Jalen Brown's mind or in the Celtics mind is they got to move on. Where are the landing spots?
- [27:53]
Rich Kleiman
There is. The landing spots are bleak. And let me tell you why. Because now what's happening, all the stuff that's happening, what GM is going to trade? Because if a GM trades for him at this point, what they're basically saying is I'm risking a situation that could then happen to me again. So now I give up an asset that's happy here, no problem. My job is safe for someone that come in and a year from now may say they want to leave. Now my owners looking at me saying, well, why would you bring.
- [28:25]
Max Kellerman
But I imagine whoever it would be would have an understanding with Jaylen Brown that this is going to be your team. Is Jaylen Brown good enough to be the best player on a championship team? Is he good?
- [28:35]
Rich Kleiman
Stop saying this is going to be your team. It's none of these guys team.
- [28:38]
Max Kellerman
Nobody's team is jit the owners team. Is Jaylen Brown good enough to be the best player on a championship team?
- [28:48]
Rich Kleiman
Yes, he is.
- [28:49]
Max Kellerman
Okay, that's the question.
- [28:50]
Rich Kleiman
But you say the problem I have with all of this is when we get our guys to think this is their team. It is not your team. It is the owner's team.
- [29:00]
Max Kellerman
The Knicks are Jalen Brunson's team. The Knicks belong to Jalen Brunson. A lot of OG's great and Karl Anthony Towns is great and everyone loves everyone. It's Jalen Brunson.
- [29:09]
Rich Kleiman
If you ask Jalen Brunson.
- [29:10]
Max Kellerman
Jalen Brunson City right now.
- [29:11]
Rich Kleiman
If you ask Jalen Brunson that, he'll tell you it's not my team. Obviously. Do I have some say?
- [29:18]
Max Kellerman
Cleveland Cavaliers 2016 was not LeBron's team.
- [29:21]
Rich Kleiman
You damn lie. I was there, all right? It wasn't.
- [29:25]
Max Kellerman
You know other people are going to see this, right?
- [29:27]
Rich Kleiman
That's fine. I don't care who sees it. We. We in 400 million households, will you
- [29:30]
Max Kellerman
come get your man?
- [29:32]
Rich Kleiman
This is this is, this is why it's so misleading. And this is. Listen, what you're talking about is exactly why kids sit in that green room during the draft time and think that it's an issue if they go 20, 21, 22, 25. This is the mentality that pushes us back. It's not your team. Do you have some say? Yeah, but nobody has to ask you anything to make a decision. You earn that Jalen Brown has earned, or Jalen Brunson, in his case has earned the courtesy of, of being allowed in the room and saying, hey, Jalen, we're thinking about this. What do you think?
- [30:11]
Max Kellerman
Okay, I, I understand the distinction you're making. You're saying. Yeah, you're. But then the 16 Cats were LeBron's team years because he had earned it, right?
- [30:18]
Rich Kleiman
Yes.
- [30:19]
Max Kellerman
Okay, so they were. So retract your previous statement because they were his team.
- [30:23]
Rich Kleiman
No, no, no.
- [30:23]
Max Kellerman
He had. Or he earned a 2017 Cavs. LeBron. Well, he. Because he had earned it by 6,005, right?
- [30:29]
Rich Kleiman
Yes, right. He.
- [30:31]
Max Kellerman
Oh, that's LeBron's team.
- [30:32]
Rich Kleiman
And that happened pretty.
- [30:34]
Max Kellerman
The Bulls were Jordan's team. The Lakers were Kareem's and they became Magic. The Lakers were Shaqs, but it became Kobe's.
- [30:40]
Rich Kleiman
But here's what I'm saying.
- [30:41]
Max Kellerman
And the Lake and the Celtics were Tatums, and Brown thought they were becoming his. And that's what the issue really is.
- [30:47]
Rich Kleiman
No, but that's not true. You guys put that in the atmosphere.
- [30:50]
Max Kellerman
That is true. But it now exists. Right. What you're mad about is you don't think it should exist. And I agree with you. If it's destructive to a team, it shouldn't exist. But then there's the reality that it does.
- [31:03]
Rich Kleiman
There's 30 NBA teams.
- [31:04]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [31:04]
Rich Kleiman
There's 450 players.
- [31:06]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [31:06]
Rich Kleiman
Okay. 450 jobs. Well, if there's only 1500 starting. I mean, I'm sorry, 150 starting jobs.
- [31:18]
Max Kellerman
Right.
- [31:20]
Rich Kleiman
And there's 30 starting small forward jobs.
- [31:24]
Max Kellerman
Right.
- [31:25]
Rich Kleiman
And there's five starting small forward jobs on historical teams.
- [31:29]
Max Kellerman
Sure.
- [31:30]
Rich Kleiman
Where's the issue?
- [31:31]
Max Kellerman
Well, this is.
- [31:32]
Rich Kleiman
I do math very well since Mr. Kaplan at Captain Arthur Rock. Where is the issue? I don't see it.
- [31:37]
Max Kellerman
This is, this is the issue. If I'm going to trade for Jaylen Brown and Rich, we can't pretend there's not the real possibility that that happens. Right. It would be with the understanding that he is going to be the number one featured guy in the offense. Let's put it that way. If you don't want to call it his team. And I don't know. Jaylen Brown's an excellent player. I don't know that he's good enough to be the best player in a championship team. I would suspect if he is.
- [32:07]
Rich Kleiman
Well, he was. He won the Finals mvp.
- [32:09]
Max Kellerman
But this is what I'm. Yeah, that's a good point. In the Finals, he was. But I suspect if he is. And this is actually. You're going to like this point, if he is good enough, it's because he has another guy on the team just as good as him. Right. Which is his situation already. I understand, Max.
- [32:25]
Rich Kleiman
The only way you could be a championship team is if you have the championship pieces to actually win.
- [32:32]
Max Kellerman
But what I'm saying is the issue with a guy like Jaylen Brown at this point may be that, like, so here's. Here are guys like, everyone needs a running partner. Everyone needs a crime partner. Jordan needed Pippen. LeBron needed Wade. LeBron needed Kyrie. We could go on and on and on, like Bird need Mikhail. Kareem and Magic needed each other. Right?
- [32:52]
Rich Kleiman
Shaq.
- [32:53]
Max Kellerman
Right. Even after Shaq, he needs Gasol. But. But what I'm saying is Jordan really was great enough. LeBron really was great enough. They did not need another guy as good as him on the team, because there really isn't. Right. They just need another great player with them. And if. If Jalen Brown is putting himself in the position now, if. If. I'm not saying he is. I'm saying if. The idea is that's what he wants. To me. He is not that guy. He is. He's. You said Finals mvp. Just about as good as the best player. Like, he's right up there with the best player on his team. But there are two of them. If he's looking for a situation where he is decisively the best player on the team, I don't think he will win. A. Right. That's what I'm saying.
- [33:37]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Because. Because we can take all 15, all NBA players and put them on teams together, and they're going to be equally as good as the other. There's. You're naming guys that are aliens, right? Why are we talking about Michael Jordan and LeBron James? Those guys don't.
- [33:58]
Max Kellerman
So what I'm saying is, if this is emanating from Jalen Brown, then I can understand why the Celtics would have an issue.
- [34:05]
Rich Kleiman
Jayden never said that. You never heard him say anything. All you seen Jaylen Brown?
- [34:08]
Max Kellerman
No, it's Conjecture. It's conjecture.
- [34:10]
Rich Kleiman
But all we've seen him do is produce. That's it.
- [34:13]
Max Kellerman
Agreed. Except in the playoffs this year. Not as much when we needed them. But listen, he'd already been finals mvp. I agree. And by the way, I will admit this too. I am someone in the media who is prone to being prisoner of the moment in this sense. Someone screws up in the playoffs that he might be an all time clutch player. He just had a bad series. That can happen. I get it.
- [34:35]
Rich Kleiman
It can happen. It can happen to the best of the best.
- [34:37]
Max Kellerman
Jamal Murray is an excellent playoff performer. He had a bad series where they got bounced. He had a bad matchup.
- [34:42]
Commercial/Ad Voice
It can happen.
- [34:42]
Rich Kleiman
In the history of the league that's never had a bad series.
- [34:44]
Max Kellerman
Michael Jordan.
- [34:45]
Rich Kleiman
You're a damn lie.
- [34:46]
Max Kellerman
Michael Jordan never in his life had a bad series. Never happened. It just never happened.
- [34:51]
Rich Kleiman
Okay.
- [34:51]
Max Kellerman
I mean, if you could show me the bad series that he had in the playoffs, I'd love to see it. He never did.
- [34:56]
Rich Kleiman
Okay, but what do you consider a bad series? We talking about a bad series? No. A bat? No. Because you can shoot poorly and not play.
- [35:03]
Max Kellerman
I agree.
- [35:04]
Rich Kleiman
Right.
- [35:04]
Max Kellerman
I agree.
- [35:05]
Rich Kleiman
So everybody in our history of our league had a bad shooting.
- [35:09]
Max Kellerman
By the percentages. It could be.
- [35:11]
Rich Kleiman
Yes, they have.
- [35:12]
Max Kellerman
It could be. I mean I. That's the one. I just said con canipple. Earlier in the show he had. They had to sit him on the bench. He might wind up being an all time playoff performer. But so far, what little, little, little evidence we have is.
- [35:26]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, well listen, you know, and if
- [35:28]
Max Kellerman
that happens two or three more times,
- [35:29]
Rich Kleiman
you go better days than most. But I had bad days. Everyone has an off shooting.
- [35:34]
Max Kellerman
So you believe it's reconcilable, not irreconcilable with the.
- [35:37]
Rich Kleiman
Of course I listen.
- [35:39]
Max Kellerman
What's the best fit for Jalen Brown if they deal him?
- [35:44]
Rich Kleiman
I don't know. Every team in the NBA could use a Jalen Brown. Every team. There's not one team in the NBA that should not use a Jalen Brown.
- [35:52]
Max Kellerman
Denver.
- [35:53]
Rich Kleiman
Every team in the NBA can use a Jalen Brown.
- [35:55]
Max Kellerman
I'm trying to think where else he makes sense. Denver is one that jumps to mind because you want to find someone for Jokic. Right.
- [36:02]
Rich Kleiman
Would be timeline. So you just take the teams on a different timeline.
- [36:06]
Max Kellerman
A guy approaching 30 with another great player.
- [36:09]
Rich Kleiman
But they're also not championship trending type teams. So you just take pretty much 20 teams in the league. That leaves you 10. And out of all those 10 teams that could possibly compete For a championship. He fits on all 10, including the Boston Celtics where he's already at.
- [36:27]
Max Kellerman
Lakers are interested in acquiring Mitchell Robinson.
- [36:30]
Rich Kleiman
Robinson.
- [36:30]
Max Kellerman
Okay.
- [36:31]
Rich Kleiman
Why? Because they need a big starting big.
- [36:35]
Max Kellerman
Yeah. And I see. I agree with you. Mitchell Robinson, when he has played too many minutes, his body doesn't respond well. So it's just the way he's built. He is like what? What Mitchell Robinson really is. He's the best backup center in the league. He is the number one backup center in basketball. Yeah. But I don't think he's a starter. Not because he can't play at that level, but because if you demand many more than 20 minutes a game, he winds up getting hurt.
- [37:01]
Rich Kleiman
But also he's a different type of big. So what we've seen be successful with Luka is guys like Gafford and Lively. The great thing about Lively was Lively has guard. You know, IQ as it pertains to. He can make reads. Yes. He can catch the lob. He knows how to set a screen. Hold it. Row, short row dive. He great hands. Where that pocket pass. He's kicking it to the corner. That's not Mitchell Robinson. Mitchell Robinson is. Mitchell Robinson is a extra possession shot blocking dive for the loose ball. Got. He can. He can get out and guard. You know he can.
- [37:42]
Max Kellerman
Sure can.
- [37:42]
Rich Kleiman
He can move his feet pretty well and contest. But that's not.
- [37:45]
Max Kellerman
And he's clutch. In the playoffs. He's a clutch player. People don't think of defensive players as being clutch. Mitchell Robinson is an all time, all world clutch defensive playoff player. I mean he changes the game when he's in. He's unbelievable.
- [38:00]
Rich Kleiman
So I mean, I don't know. I don't have a decision to make here. But that just would seem.
- [38:07]
Max Kellerman
If the Lakers overpay, the Knicks will lose them.
- [38:11]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, well, yeah.
- [38:13]
Max Kellerman
You thought this was your run club era. Turns out it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news, someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Depop. Where taste recognizes taste. You have one new message translating Disney and Pixar's Hoppers is now available on Disney.
- [38:53]
Rich Kleiman
You could say that again.
- [38:54]
Max Kellerman
Critics are calling it Pixar's funniest movie ever. And a wildly entertaining ride. Blizzard Potato. It's certified fresh and verified hot. Now we party. This is incredible. Wow.
- [39:07]
Rich Kleiman
I am clearing the rest of the day.
- [39:09]
Max Kellerman
Disney and Pixar's Hoppers now available on Disney. Rated pg. Hear what Perk had to say about Giannis?
- [39:16]
Rich Kleiman
No, what did Perk say?
- [39:17]
Max Kellerman
He will never again be the number one on a championship team. Basically, what he's saying is the. The, oh, you can't. Are not going to win a championship. That's basically what he said.
- [39:29]
Rich Kleiman
He's saying you can't win a championship with Giannis as your number one option.
- [39:33]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, he just said Giannis won't be. Won't win a championship as a number one ever again. By the way, the thing about Perk is because Perk has so much flavor, right? Perk is almost like an MC who has a lot of flavor, so people don't take them as seriously as they should in terms of the lyricism. Like, in other words, if sometimes. If you. If you have too much flavor, people don't think that you actually have substance. Perk is usually dead on. He's usually dead on. Giannis knows basketball, but Giannis is not quite what he was on either end of the floor. I think it's a little more obvious on defense, actually, than he was, let's say, three or four years ago. And he hasn't been available a lot. I understand, really, how I take that to mean is the Heat won't win a championship until they get another guy at least as good as Perk on offense. Sorry, they got guys. I meant Giannis on offense.
- [40:35]
Rich Kleiman
Sorry, Perk.
- [40:35]
Max Kellerman
But that's not what Perk knows. That's not what he's in the game for.
- [40:39]
Rich Kleiman
No, here's. Here's. Here's what I'll tell you. Perk is semi right, in terms of how he's thinking. But here's how I'm thinking. Giannis will win a championship as the biggest name in a system like Miami if they're able to get the right pieces.
- [41:03]
Max Kellerman
What are the right pieces?
- [41:04]
Rich Kleiman
Because, see, here's the thing. This goes to style of play. When someone says the number one option, this is why I tell you that I don't like this idea of. Of is my team or. Or, yeah. Is my own. The team. Because what that insinuates is I'm taking every shot. No, that's the wrong way to play basketball.
- [41:25]
Max Kellerman
If I don't think you think it's. I think it's more. What did the soccer announcer say during the World cup about getting the ball to Messi? Isn't it? Didn't he say, I understand that it's like getting the ball to Jordan or to Brunson at the end of the game. That's what it means.
- [41:38]
Rich Kleiman
But getting the ball to Jordan in the triangle meant Armstrong hit a big shot, Paxton hit a big shot, Kerr hit a big shot. The Miami Heats system is the triangle effect 2.0. When you play in the Miami Heat system, don't you realize that all those guys that come out of the Miami Heat system, they're different? Out of the Miami Heat system, they're all different, but in that system, they play pretty well. So. So it's. It's less about the number one option to me, and it's more about if the Heat can. And this may not happen overnight when. When trades like this happen and people think, okay, the team's going to win overnight. No, but if the Heat can somehow construct the right guys around Giannis and bam. Because bam was there, you know, it's a team game, man. So as long as Giannis is able to make the right reads in real time, draw two, kick guys, make shots, he's gonna get. He's gonna get downhill, he's gonna play hard every night. Defensively, forget about it. They have one of the best defensive.
- [42:50]
Max Kellerman
Defensive. Defensively, their starting unit will be the best in basketball.
- [42:54]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah. So. So you can be the number one option and not necessarily be the guy that takes the shot at the end of games, if that makes sense.
- [43:04]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, sure, of course.
- [43:05]
Rich Kleiman
Okay.
- [43:05]
Max Kellerman
So, I mean, that's the case with Shaq with, like, a lot of big.
- [43:08]
Rich Kleiman
So. So I don't.
- [43:09]
Max Kellerman
You know, But I would think that if they can't hang on to Norman Powell. Yeah. Then you need to replace him with another guy, not just who can shoot, but a guy with some dynamic ability in his office.
- [43:24]
Rich Kleiman
See, here's the thing.
- [43:25]
Max Kellerman
Then it looks more like a championship.
- [43:26]
Rich Kleiman
The word shooting is very misleading because what happens is when you say we need shooting, so now you go out and get a guy that shoots the ball at a very high clip, and he's a specialist. But in the playoffs, you need a guy that can. That has the skill set of shooting with the also skill set of playmaking. You got to have guys that can put the ball on the floor in the playoffs, because in the playoffs, they're closing out on those.
- [43:54]
Max Kellerman
You need two guys on the floor who can create.
- [43:57]
Rich Kleiman
No, you need two guys in one.
- [43:59]
Max Kellerman
No, what I'm saying is, if that's only one guy and the defense is focused on them, it's a problem. Usually you need a secondary option who can also make decisions with the ball and stuff, put it on the floor, make plays.
- [44:10]
Rich Kleiman
Yes, because if a guy's just a shooter and he's just stuck in that corner, then.
- [44:14]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, that's what I mean.
- [44:15]
Rich Kleiman
You can minimize him.
- [44:15]
Max Kellerman
If they, if they lose Powell, ideally he'd be replaced with a, with a guy. Even if it's a younger guy who needs to develop into it, who not only can shoot and defend, but has some at least secondary playmaking ability.
- [44:28]
Rich Kleiman
They have a little money to spend to make that work. And if you're them, you want to get it. Well, how much money they got? They got like 20 million, 18 million. You want a 30 million dollar guy
- [44:43]
Max Kellerman
that you got for 18.
- [44:44]
Rich Kleiman
That you got for 18. If you can pull that off, then
- [44:48]
Max Kellerman
it's going to be a problem. But perks, Perks. Giannis, like, I think part of his, his commentary is that Giannis is in decline now. I agree with that. When you are declining.
- [44:59]
Rich Kleiman
That's not for me to say.
- [45:00]
Max Kellerman
It seems to me he is. When you are declining from extremely great heights on your way down, you're still better than most players. And if there is decline, I don't think it's so drastic that he's still not, you know, a first, all NBA first team level player when healthy.
- [45:17]
Rich Kleiman
It's still based on style of play. I'm telling you, if and SPO will do this, if they get the right pieces around and Yan is going to now have to do. He's going to be able to do more by doing less. Yep, it puts you in a really good spot. Now it's just about matchups.
- [45:34]
Max Kellerman
All right, so listen, we have to have Perk on to talk about this.
- [45:36]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, Perk was supposed to come on. He flaked on us.
- [45:39]
Max Kellerman
Well, he got called in.
- [45:40]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah. The man has a job.
- [45:41]
Max Kellerman
Has a job.
- [45:42]
Rich Kleiman
I say flaked.
- [45:46]
Max Kellerman
Oh, so rich. This was an emergency pod. We had to get on and react to the Lamelo news and the potential for a Jalen Brown trade and, and all kinds of, you know, the honest stuff and everything. We have Michael Rubin on for Monday.
- [46:03]
Rich Kleiman
Yes, we do. Fanatics Fest.
- [46:06]
Max Kellerman
Fanatics Fest. Michael Rubin, former Six Fanatics. Michael Rubin, Fanatics. Fanatics. Yeah, but formerly the Sixers. You're supposed to say governor nowadays.
- [46:15]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, yeah, he was, he was part of the ownership group. Those were fun times because Michael was someone who, and people give him a lot of. For, for things, but he's just generous. Right. He was someone who was probably too accessible in his, in his role.
- [46:32]
Max Kellerman
Seemed that way to me.
- [46:33]
Rich Kleiman
Yeah, he's probably too accessible in his role but but but but we had fun you can and you know him as only he relates to guys right
- [46:41]
Max Kellerman
you know your guy going to the white party that's a big deal my invite to the white invites that we're gonna have to talk about that my
- [46:49]
Rich Kleiman
outfit to the white party when is that Dean and I got Dan and I got a couple looks when is
- [46:52]
Max Kellerman
it July 1st okay yeah right so we got a little few days yeah. Foreign. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome you think you know a browser but Gemini and Chrome that's new it can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks Gemini and Chrome is here for it ready to make anything online make sense there's no place like Chrome check responses setup required compatibility and availability varies 18.