← Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul
Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul
Fanatics Founder and CEO Michael Rubin Joins Game Over
00:48:47
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- [00:01]
Michael Rubin
Lamine Yamal steps into McDonald's, looks left, sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez, gives a nod to Ronaldinho in the corner with a FIFA World cup meal. Ronaldinho sees son in the booth. Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce. He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davey's going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henry, who pulls his own collectible cup. Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World cup meal at participating McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026 and hey, it's Bill from the Bill Simmons podcast. FIFA World Cup 26 fans, listen up. Is the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26. Michelob Ultra is giving away $1,000,000 worth of FIFA World Cup 26 tickets and prizes. Enter now at michelobulture.com SuperiorAccess/ FIFAWorld Cup 26 My Globe Ultra FIFA World Cup 26 Superior Access.
- [00:49]
Commercial Announcer
No purchase necessary.
- [00:50]
Michael Rubin
Open US residents 21 begins on December 1, 2025. Ends on July 31, 2026. Multiple entry periods. Visit www.michelobaltra.com SuperiorAccess FIFA World Cup 2, 64 free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details.
- [01:05]
Max Kellerman
Max Rich, we have a guest.
- [01:08]
Rich Paul
I see that materialized.
- [01:11]
Max Kellerman
Did you bring Michael Rubin on?
- [01:13]
Rich Paul
One of us did.
- [01:14]
Michael Rubin
Well, I think he did cuz we were here like hours before he already. We've been waiting here for you for hours to get.
- [01:20]
Max Kellerman
I knew your eta. There was a detour right here. You had the same detours. I did it.
- [01:25]
Michael Rubin
Listen, I was. I want to be early on time for my guy.
- [01:27]
Max Kellerman
Okay, well, thank you for that. It's okay. But Max and I have this thing going on where his contract is different than mine, but I work harder than him on doing all the other things
- [01:36]
Rich Paul
and so he's the booker.
- [01:37]
Michael Rubin
He's the booker.
- [01:38]
Max Kellerman
He's going back up.
- [01:39]
Michael Rubin
He's a good booker.
- [01:40]
Max Kellerman
No, but we're glad. We're glad to have Michael Rubin, Max. Somebody I've been dealing with for several years on all different facets. But he's. He's built this unbelievable business. He's taken over the whole sports world.
- [01:57]
Michael Rubin
Left me behind, which we haven't done shit yet. We're just getting started.
- [02:00]
Max Kellerman
You think so?
- [02:01]
Michael Rubin
I'm sure of that.
- [02:02]
Max Kellerman
Well, you're off to a pretty good start if you're just getting started.
- [02:06]
Michael Rubin
I feel like maybe. We feel like we're in the playoffs for the first time.
- [02:09]
Max Kellerman
First round of Playoffs.
- [02:10]
Michael Rubin
Yeah.
- [02:11]
Max Kellerman
Or the first time making playoffs.
- [02:12]
Michael Rubin
First time making the playoffs. What's the championship when I die? And hopefully we've built the most incredible company in the world. I mean, for me, I'm doing this the rest of my life.
- [02:19]
Max Kellerman
So you never sell the business? No, no. Go public?
- [02:23]
Michael Rubin
I mean, we could eventually. There's no. I mean, for us. The great thing is I'm the largest shareholder of the company. I'm so passionate about building. We got 22,000 people that get up every day and say, how do we relentlessly enhance the fan experience? And you know what? Could we go public one day?
- [02:36]
Max Kellerman
Sure.
- [02:36]
Michael Rubin
Is something worth the wait today?
- [02:37]
Max Kellerman
22,000 employees?
- [02:38]
Michael Rubin
Yeah.
- [02:39]
Max Kellerman
Okay, we have to start the show, Max, because right there is 22,000 is.
- [02:44]
Rich Paul
How many do you have?
- [02:46]
Max Kellerman
230
- [02:49]
Michael Rubin
working for him here? Because I was first, right?
- [02:50]
Rich Paul
231.
- [02:51]
Michael Rubin
231.
- [02:54]
Rich Paul
But. But 230 is a bigger number than I thought you. That you brought it with.230.
- [02:58]
Max Kellerman
No,230.
- [02:59]
Rich Paul
230 is a lot.
- [03:01]
Max Kellerman
It's a lot. Yeah.
- [03:01]
Rich Paul
But 20,000 on you because I thought you're gonna say 18. No, and I was gonna say 22, 000.
- [03:06]
Michael Rubin
He's got a tough time. I know how hard his job is, by the way.
- [03:11]
Max Kellerman
It's amazing.
- [03:12]
Michael Rubin
It's amazing how young he still looks.
- [03:13]
Rich Paul
I don't even have an assistant. Gameoverpotify.com Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul. And today, Michael Rubin.
- [03:20]
Max Kellerman
Yes, the Michael Rubin.
- [03:22]
Rich Paul
The Michael Rubin.
- [03:34]
Max Kellerman
You know, Mike, I want to say something.
- [03:37]
Michael Rubin
You.
- [03:38]
Max Kellerman
You responsible for a lot of things, but one thing you are definitely responsible for. This guy has a big heart. You remember where we met? Not where we met.
- [03:49]
Michael Rubin
Because I feel like I've known you for.
- [03:50]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, yeah.
- [03:50]
Michael Rubin
A long time.
- [03:51]
Max Kellerman
We got closer in the Bahamas. We got closer.
- [03:54]
Michael Rubin
That was a fun night.
- [03:55]
Max Kellerman
Fun night. But what Michael has done is he's opened up what I would say the vortex to athletes and entertainers in a way in which I haven't seen someone do it to the level I didn't know where you were going with it at first. Now I really understand. But you were very generous to everyone.
- [04:20]
Michael Rubin
You know, for me, I think we all kind of build on our weaknesses and because the way and people. I try to explain this to people all the time. I think people used to think I'm self deprecating. They actually now understand that it was just me being completely sincere. I was such a bad student, such a bad learner from school. Like I learned from the people around me, from asking questions, from being a sponge to people. And I love bringing people together because I think we can all, like, learn from each other. And so whether it's the fun night we had in the Bahamas or all the things we've been through in a. You know, a journey that we're hopefully just in the beginning of. Like, to me, the opportunity of bringing people together from different backgrounds is how you learn. It's how you grow. It's how we learn from each other. It's how we help each other, and that's what we push each other up.
- [05:03]
Max Kellerman
Did you get any backlash from the. Because you were able to move people around, right, for free? Pretty much. It cost you. But did you get any backlash from anybody with your ability to have. At your events? You're moving around, they're performing, so on and so forth. And it's really a personal relationship because you pick up the phone and you're calling the talent directly. How did you handle that?
- [05:32]
Michael Rubin
Look, here's what I'd say. When you're just starting, and I know you guys both are gonna relate to exactly what I'm saying. When you're first starting, people wanna help you build. They wanna push you up. They're always telling, hey, it's a great story about what Mac's doing, the great story about what Rich is doing. And they're pushing you. The second you start to do well, people are always coming for you. Okay?
- [05:51]
Max Kellerman
Absolutely.
- [05:52]
Michael Rubin
That is the nature of the beast. And so for me, what I always say is, the better we do, the more it brings out. You know, it brings out some people coming for you. That's okay. I'm honored to be in this position. It doesn't bother me. So are you asking me do I take shit for certain things? 100%. Do I let it bother me? I always ask one question, are they right or wrong? If they're right, then I want to pivot, change, grow from. If they're wrong, I just ignore the noise.
- [06:17]
Rich Paul
When you say, move people around and you say, are people coming from you? Can you be more specific? Like, move people around? What does that mean? And why would you get shit for it?
- [06:25]
Max Kellerman
Well, because. Because, okay, if Michael calls me, right, say, rich, I need you to do X, Y and Z for me. And we've done this. Cool. No problem, Mike. That's one thing. But if you're able to move talent, right, despite what they have going on, he has these personal relationships and what
- [06:42]
Rich Paul
show up at events and stuff may
- [06:44]
Max Kellerman
cost somebody $2 million, they're showing up for Michael as a friendship. People, you know, people give shit.
- [06:51]
Michael Rubin
Well, let me say.
- [06:52]
Rich Paul
And when they say shit, what kind of shit do you get for that?
- [06:54]
Michael Rubin
Let me back up for a second because I always want to, like, I always want to be more of a giver than a taker. That I think that's very important. Thank you. And that's important to me. So I'm always. And I think you know this because you know a lot of people that are really close to me. I'm always trying to help the people that around me in every way I possibly can. But by the way, sometimes you can find ways to do things that are life changing for people. And I've had people do that for me. Look at. And I've told this story a zillion times. But like, look what the craft family's done for me. Like, I won't be where I am in business.
- [07:21]
Commercial Announcer
Had it.
- [07:22]
Michael Rubin
Had.
- [07:22]
Max Kellerman
You need people to block and tackle
- [07:23]
Michael Rubin
for you, no matter how successful you are. For sure. And I'm never going to stop needing that. I'm never going to stop doing that for other people. But what I mean when I say people start coming for you is the better you. I'm sure you had a period of time in your life where people just built you up and then you got to a certain place. Now people are trying to kill you in certain ways. That just goes to.
- [07:40]
Max Kellerman
That started at the beginning.
- [07:41]
Michael Rubin
But. Yes, but, but, but it's, it's even more. It's. And I'm. To me, life is all about relationships. And you know, if you have sincere, real relationships, then people have each other's backs. And for me, you know, I think up until about five years ago, there weren't people coming for me. And then you just get bigger and you just know it's part of the territory. And again, you're lucky to be in that position.
- [08:03]
Rich Paul
You know, you made it.
- [08:05]
Michael Rubin
I don't think I've done. I really mean this, but you know,
- [08:07]
Rich Paul
when they start coming for you, they know, you know, you.
- [08:09]
Michael Rubin
I know, I know as you build, you just get bigger. It just, it brings attention.
- [08:13]
Rich Paul
Why haven't you done shit yet? Like, so you said earlier, that's like it's the playoffs. And I said, what's the championship? Is it to be number one? Like, what is. When you say you haven't done shit yet, it seems like you've done a lot.
- [08:24]
Michael Rubin
I don't think I have. And I think the second you start to think that you have, then I think bad things happen. So from my perspective, you know, I really got going with Fanatics after I sold my first real company to eBay in 2011. You and I have known each other, I think, longer than that. And, you know, I've been, you know, fanatics was a $250 million company. At Fresh Air. Today, we're about a $14 billion business, but we feel like.
- [08:45]
Rich Paul
Say that number again.
- [08:46]
Michael Rubin
We're about a 14 billion dol. We feel like we're just getting started, we think.
- [08:50]
Max Kellerman
And that's without the betting really being mature.
- [08:54]
Michael Rubin
And we're the fast growing sportsbooking casino in the country. We built a collectible business from scratch in the last five years. And look, we think we can build the most important company in sports, one of the most important consumer brands in the world. And I love doing it. And the thing I love most is every day I'm learning from people around me because that's like, at the end of the day, like, you know, you get to a certain place, like, look, I'm never buying a sports team again. Like, I don't need anything.
- [09:18]
Max Kellerman
You were great.
- [09:20]
Rich Paul
You were a very popular owner.
- [09:22]
Michael Rubin
But actually, I wasn't great because we never. You're only great when you win the. You know who's great this year? New York Knicks. You're only great when you win the championship. Okay. You're not great when you don't win the championship.
- [09:32]
Max Kellerman
I will say you were too involved. You really. You put a lot on yourself.
- [09:36]
Michael Rubin
Look, I think what I thought was in a league that's, you know, really driven by the stars, I thought if you could have great relationships with a few people that really drove that team, you could probably get better chemistry. You could probably get, you know, look, as you know, I mean, no one's got a more difficult job than you. That shit you deal with every day when you look at your phone, I know you know this. Like, I cannot believe I'm dealing with this. That's, you know, look, details matter in business. And, you know, I can fly at the highest level. Running for an axe I can do. I can do the most menial things. If I told you some of the things I do every day, whether it's, you know, getting, you know, 10 people who hit me for tickets a day or reservations for something, and it doesn't. It doesn't bother me at all because that just goes with the territory. And I think you need to keep that humility. The day I'm too big for that is the day bad things will happen.
- [10:25]
Max Kellerman
I agree with you. No, listen, There's. There's a lot of people think that the job is easy, right? They see Michael, they see him with the seats and the plane and all this stuff, but he worked. He works relentlessly. And when I say he probably was too involved, it's what you said before we started the show.
- [10:42]
Michael Rubin
Look, I remember the story, and you and I know that. I mean, probably the only difficult thing we ever went through was the Ben Simmons times. And I remember thinking, like, hey, if, you know, and I had a great relationship with Ben, I have a great, like, look, I like Ben. If I sat with Ben, like, I could convince him I could fix this, because that was always my mentality.
- [10:56]
Max Kellerman
Could not.
- [10:57]
Michael Rubin
And I was wrong. Okay?
- [10:59]
Rich Paul
And so too accessible is what I said before the show started. You're overly accessible.
- [11:03]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, I. I think you could definitely argue that in the time of the Sixers that my relationship with a couple of the guys, that I was too accessible. And again, look, we didn't get the right outcome, and so obviously we didn't have the right winning, you know, approach. We were a perennial second round exit of the playoffs. And, you know, and so that, to
- [11:24]
Rich Paul
be fair, I was. I saw Ben Simmons and thought, oh, my God, he's the most excited. He's the best show in sports. And. And with Embiid, it's like, it seemed pretty obvious that they were going to be an incredible pairing.
- [11:35]
Michael Rubin
I mean, you learn, by the way, this, look, mental health, I didn't really understand it. I didn't really believe you would ask me. Ten years ago, you and I would had a conversation about, you know, mental health. Ten years ago, I would say, like, I grew up where, like, my parents, the way they made me better. Just tell me you suck at this. You're not good at this. Like, and I like that, by the way.
- [11:54]
Rich Paul
Right? So it's excuses what it sounds like,
- [11:57]
Max Kellerman
but people thought I was used as an excuse. Like, Michael, I'm not going to lie to you.
- [12:01]
Michael Rubin
Right? That was. That was. In that time. That was. That was.
- [12:05]
Max Kellerman
This is someone I really care about, Ben Simmons. And this is my friend. Like, we talk. We. I've never lied to him about anything. We talk, have real conversations. And I said to him, I said, michael, I said, this is. This is a different beast right here. I said, this is not even gamesmanship. This is me telling you very matter of factly, ben Simmons will never play another game in a 76ers uniform. I'm just telling.
- [12:28]
Michael Rubin
And by the way, the good thing is we learn from these experiences. We grow from these experiences, they make you smarter and make you better, and you got to take things away.
- [12:35]
Rich Paul
I want to go back to something you said, because this is a theory I have. Like, you hear people in business, hey, if they're generous or if they do things a certain way, or if they try to remain with some humility and they always try to justify it. Our culture, you have to justify in a transactional way. Meaning I am like this because it's good for business. The day I stop being humble, I'll fail if I'm generous. But I really think it's just the way people are and you're not allowed to just have that kind of kindness in you or you're soft somehow. So people have to always rationalize it and justify it by saying, actually, this makes me money. It might make you money, Obviously it makes you money, but that's incidental. That's just who you are, right?
- [13:18]
Michael Rubin
Look, I love trying to be the biggest giver I can be. Wherever I can be, I enjoy it. It feels good to me. I love helping people to do things. And I, by again, I've been helped by a lot of people along the way, too. And so no differently. The way Robin John Craft looked at me 15 years ago and helped me through, you know, whether it was strategy, tough time, whatever it was, oh, he
- [13:39]
Rich Paul
sat down and strategized.
- [13:41]
Michael Rubin
Jonathan, look, I, you know, I, I, I met those guys. I met Robert's oldest son, Jonathan, starting in 2007, 2008. He'd helped me on the strategy for fanatics, where to go, you know, deals. I was in the middle of people I need to like you think of me as to, you know, me today, 20 years ago, no one gave a
- [13:58]
Max Kellerman
shit about me, right? Okay?
- [13:59]
Michael Rubin
So I didn't have the access that I had today to go get things done. So they were incredibly helpful to me in the business.
- [14:05]
Max Kellerman
But did he walk you into the NFL and help you get your license?
- [14:08]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, they helped me with lots of things. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'll tell you the things a little scary about right now, and you're hitting on something I think is true. I was saying this last night to somebody for the first time. What I don't like, it's not happening with me. Okay? But I don't like it in the world right now is people are really villainizing success. And like, you know, look, in a lot of ways, think of your story. It's like the American dream for so many people. Okay? You know, look where you came from. Look what you've built today. Look where you are. That's a dream. And people, I want people to dream like that. I think, look, I didn't come from a family. I grew up in a very middle class family. In the house I grew up in, my parents bought it for $42,000. You know, today it's a half a million dollar house. It's not, it's middle class. Okay. I didn't grow up with like real money around me or anything like that. But like, I've grinded. The thing that's probably misunderstood the most about me is actually how hard I work and how much I love doing that. I do it, you know, really from the second I open my eyes, jump out of bed, I'm excited to do it till the second I go to bed most days of the year. Because it's an honor to do it. I love doing it. But you want people to look at success and say, I want to strive for that. Not, hey, this person's created, you know, billions or tens of billions or hundreds of billions of value. So we should demonize them. That's a bad thing. By the way, like the American dream
- [15:26]
Rich Paul
is something you want to aspire for. It's always been aspirational.
- [15:29]
Michael Rubin
And by the way, today it's a little, it's a, it's a mix, a mixing. Again, I don't see that coming at us, but I'll tell you, it's. I don't like. People should look at whether you, you like Jeff Bezos or don't like him, or Elon Musk or don't like him or Mark Zuckerberg or not. Like these are all people that started these amazing business. Right.
- [15:43]
Rich Paul
But the issue is, the issue now, it's a whole complicated subject. The issue now is, I agree, is like, you know, wealth disparity, especially if it's concentrated in too few hands. They get their hands on the, on the levers of power in government and basically it's no longer, you're no longer a democracy. And that is actually an issue we're dealing with right now. Although I agree with you, part of the American dream has always been I can become basically limitlessly wealthy in America. And that's been important for American dynamism.
- [16:13]
Michael Rubin
And by the way, everyone knows I stay out of politics. I'm not a political person. I don't like politics. I think they're bad for business. And look in New York when they're putting this big tax in right now for people don't live in New York on Pietera tax. Yeah. And by the way I'm like, people come to me, it's the worst thing. I'm like, I don't care. Like they got, you know, let the government sort that stuff out. I'm going to focus on building fanatics.
- [16:33]
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- [18:04]
Rich Paul
live from the living room as Doug
- [18:06]
Michael Rubin
eyes up the match.
- [18:07]
Max Kellerman
Say spread.
- [18:08]
Rich Paul
He's reaching for the buffalo wing.
- [18:10]
Max Kellerman
Perfect. Hang on.
- [18:11]
Rich Paul
What's this? Oh, he's gone from can of Pepsi too.
- [18:15]
Michael Rubin
Incredible.
- [18:16]
Max Kellerman
What a finish.
- [18:18]
Rich Paul
Sensational combination.
- [18:20]
Michael Rubin
Look at the delight on his face. There's no doubt about it.
- [18:23]
Rich Paul
It just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsi.
- [18:27]
Michael Rubin
Food deserves Pepsi.
- [18:28]
Rich Paul
Grab a pack of Pepsi.
- [18:30]
Michael Rubin
Zero sugar for today's match.
- [18:32]
Rich Paul
It's poetry in motion.
- [18:34]
Max Kellerman
Speaking of fanatics, Fanatics Fest is upon us. Walk us through what made you even do Fanatics Fest. How did we get here?
- [18:43]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, so we got in the collectibles business about Five years ago. And as soon as we got in the business, people said, hey, you've got to go to this show called the National. It's like the biggest trading card show in the world. And it was actually in Atlantic City. And I flew to it for the first time. I had two reactions when I got there. The first was, I cannot believe how many collectors are here and, and how passionate this base is. The second thing was, it looks like when I was in high school and so incredibly passionate collectors, but in something that looked very, you know, like old school, dated. It was very, very dated. And so a couple months later, I asked rtm, I said, I want to go to Comic Con, see what it's like. And they said, you have to go to San Diego. I said, I'm not, I don't really wanna make a special trip. I travel so much. There's one in New York that says it's not even that good. I said, I want to go see the one in New York. I walked in there, I thought I walked into like the greatest thing in the planet relative to what I had seen at the National. I said, why don't we have that for sports? I literally said to my chief of staff at that time, I'm like, find me the guy who runs this Comic Con. He's coming to fanatics to start this. And literally what did, what was the difference? One looked brand, right big, you know, marketing statements from the different companies that were there, you know, good looking, ship, more financial backing. And it had all, it had so much, you know, incredible stars involved with it. We just. I want this for sports. And what I realized was there was no other company that could pull it together. Because the reality is Nike has its athletes and its sports and Adidas has its athletes in the sports. But no one sits in the middle. We sit in the middle. So, yeah, we work with all the sports globally. We work with so many athletes globally. And it allowed us to.
- [20:21]
Max Kellerman
So do we, Mike.
- [20:22]
Michael Rubin
We work with all, but never enough.
- [20:24]
Rich Paul
But what is it about? So like, it's very. Part of what you're saying is I work, get up at work, I grind all day. But that's, that's your passion. It's like all work, but none of it's work. Because it's fun, want to do it? It's like what gets you up in the morning, right?
- [20:36]
Michael Rubin
Sure.
- [20:37]
Rich Paul
What is it about fanatics that is your passion more than owning a sports team?
- [20:43]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, I think in reality, it's a great question. In reality, like, I didn't grow up as a good athlete. I grew up as a terrible athlete. But I always was good at business. I always loved hustling, I always loved working. Okay. And for me to take the passion I have for entrepreneurialism and then mix that with the sports business is like the greatest thing in the world I could possibly do.
- [21:08]
Rich Paul
Because you loved sports growing up?
- [21:09]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, I love sports as a fan and I love business as an entrepreneur. And to be able to mix the two together and then to be able to do it in the biggest scale in the world, I mean, there's 2 billion avid sports fans. Why can't I give this 2 billion fans everything they want digitally? That's the way we think about it at fanatics and I think that's a massive opportunity for us. And by the way, it manifests its way in different businesses. Whether it's the commerce and fangirl business we started in, whether it's the collectible and trading cards business, whether it's the betting and gaming business, whether it's fanatics fest, you know, we bring it to light in different ways and I love doing that. And we again, the reason I said we're just getting started, we're only 15 years in. I remember watching, I think you and I talked about this before. I remember watching the movie about Nike 3, four years ago. As soon as I got done watch, the first thing I did was I went, I googled Phil Knight age the point, it was 85 and I think I was 50. And I said, like, think what I could do in the next 35 years if I'm, you know, just maniacally focused on this business. And I think it's, you know, I think it's endless. And so that's why we're just getting started.
- [22:10]
Max Kellerman
So, so what does the fan get? What? From fanatics? Like what? When you were thinking about I want to build this, obviously you're thinking about the fan experience, but you also have given the athlete and the entertainer, whether it's through wwe. I mean, last year Max and I was there, they announced the, the Crawford Canelo, which was, you know, Lebron did the shop from there. You had creators there. It's like a big amusement park for athletes. But from a fan's perspective, obviously you're building us out for the fan engagement of it all. What do you want the fan to come away from when they leave fanatics every year? And then how do you get them back?
- [22:54]
Michael Rubin
So first of all, at fanatics, about three years ago, we developed our brand purpose, which is to relentlessly enhance the fan experience. And now every decision we make goes through the funnel of is this gonna relentlessly enhance the fan experience? We didn't start that way, okay? And I think one of the things is you. One of my biggest fears is to get big. Big is bad, okay? Beloved is good. And so I think probably three years ago, I became obsessed with how do I build a beloved company while also the company getting bigger, which is, by the way, something that's very hard to do. And so for us, what we're trying to do is everything we do, how can we do it better? And I gotta tell you something, we have ways to improve in everything we do. The best example would be when we launched the betting and gaming business. People said to us, why would you possibly get in betting gaming? There's two companies, FanDuel Traffic. They have a duopoly like you can't possibly get into this business. And we said, okay, we're going to make a value prop that's better for the fan. We did two things that were different. The first thing we said is every time you bet, win or lose, we're going to give you fan cash. Fan cash is like our currency sport. It lets you make more bets. Get collectibles, you know, go to lids, go.
- [24:01]
Max Kellerman
You can spend. Can you spend fan cash cash at like Mitchell and Ness or it's kind
- [24:07]
Rich Paul
of like comping dinner at, or comping a meal at the casino. If you, if you play blackjack.
- [24:11]
Michael Rubin
And you could do like anything in the casino. If you think about. With this. So we're going to get. So this only our third year in business. We're going to give. Give away 1.1 billion of fan cash this year.
- [24:20]
Max Kellerman
So it's a coming back.
- [24:22]
Michael Rubin
Yeah. So people, people, you know, know it's a better deal to bet with us because of fan cash.
- [24:26]
Rich Paul
The second they get to keep playing. They're playing a game. Win or lose, you get to keep playing.
- [24:30]
Michael Rubin
We're given a little bit less than 2% of the gross bets back in. Just free money for people to use in our ecosystem. And it makes us stickier as a result of it. The second thing, and people hate this in sports betting, My player got hurt in the beginning of the game. You know, this person got hurt in the first half of the game. So we just said, if your player gets hurt in the first half of the game, we're going to take them out of the player prop. So millions of bets that would have lost, won. The reason I'm giving you this example is because we did two Things in the betting game business to say, we want to be better in the collectibles business. We went out and said, hey, how do we get the fan closer to the athlete? Okay? And you have, you know, when people play and you know this, you play your first game in the NBA, you get a debut patch that goes into a one on one card. There's one in the world. Could you imagine if you had LeBron James debut patch? There was one in the world.
- [25:17]
Rich Paul
He has.
- [25:18]
Michael Rubin
No, no. But there's not a debut. There wasn't a debut patch then that would come off and go to one on one card. That'd be a $25 million card today. Okay. So my point is, like making better products. And the other thing we've done is we've got people. Because I think one of the things that, you know, like a fan doesn't want to care about something if the person they idolize and look up to if they don't care about it. So I think one of, like, it's funny, I had, I had, I had dinner with Kat a couple nights ago with the CEO of my collectibles business, Mike man, and he opened cards for Harry. Such a passionate collector. Well, people know what a passionate collector he is. That makes other Knicks fans and other sports fans passionate collectors.
- [25:53]
Rich Paul
This is what you said about Jordans, why people bought Jordans.
- [25:56]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [25:57]
Rich Paul
It's not just because Mike was wearing them. It's because the neighborhood hero was wearing
- [26:01]
Max Kellerman
them and people didn't understand. We had a whiteboard. I don't know if you saw that, that show, but we broke down what went into the purchase of a Michael
- [26:10]
Rich Paul
Jordan shoe at that essentially early influencer.
- [26:13]
Michael Rubin
And by the way, you just said the most important thing at that time. And the trick you need to know is how do you keep it relevant? How do you keep it top of mind? Because shit changes.
- [26:21]
Max Kellerman
Yes, it does. That's what I was going to ask you. You know, from a fan perspective, like, what does the, what do you. What does your data tell you that the fans actually care about? Because people say, well, now we have betting. Fans don't care about the team anymore. They only care about the bets that they're making. Do they still care about a guy's jersey? Do they still care about a guy's car? What has been the hardest thing for you to do with an athlete? Like, is it signing a certain person?
- [26:49]
Michael Rubin
I, I think certainly the biggest thing the fans told us that we've completely changed about is that there is not an average sports fan. There are so many different cohorts and types of sports fans. If you try to put people in an average, you grew up. You love Mitchell Ness for why you love Mitchell Ness. Somebody else could say, hey, I want to go buy a jersey at Walmart. Somebody else could say, hey, you know, I want, you know, a very specialized product. So if you try to do something for the average sports fan, the average. There is no average sports fan. Okay? And so for us, the biggest thing we've been doing the last couple of years is building an offering for different types of cohorts of fans. And so I think that's been the biggest learning. Learning for us is don't try to have an average. Don't try to serve everyone in a similar way. Try to serve different constituencies in different ways.
- [27:35]
Rich Paul
When you say big is bad, you mean. I take that to mean, like, if you get too big and you become an institution, you can't be nimble anymore. You can't. What, what do you mean by that?
- [27:45]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, I think first of all, why is big bad?
- [27:48]
Rich Paul
Biggest good?
- [27:48]
Michael Rubin
Yeah.
- [27:49]
Max Kellerman
So, no, big is not good.
- [27:51]
Michael Rubin
Big is not. Big is not good. I think when I started Fanatics as like a younger entrepreneur, I'm just thinking about, you know, how we build, you know, how we build something that everybody wants to use, and then you realize, well, big isn't good. Let me tell you what's good. Beloved. So now, like, we're hiring people in communities to go out and build relationships with the super fans of the communities, because that's how you build a beloved.
- [28:12]
Rich Paul
No, beloved. What you said about beloved is love.
- [28:15]
Michael Rubin
So why do we do Fanatics Fest? Because that makes fans beloved. I can tell you the 200,000 people that come through Fanatics Fest this year, and then everyone who sees this socially, they'll build a special relationship with fanatics as a result of it. Now, that show cost, between ourselves and our partners, 80 to 90 million dollars to put on, okay, the ticket revenue is like between 10 and 15 million bucks. And then there's a bunch of sponsorship that goes with it. Why do we do this? Why do we work our ass?
- [28:44]
Max Kellerman
You probably flat or you lose money.
- [28:45]
Michael Rubin
I mean, we've lost money in the last two years because you also have
- [28:48]
Max Kellerman
to pay the talent, right? Or at least pay for their travel.
- [28:51]
Michael Rubin
And all talent is all. People are always making money by coming there, whether it's part of a deal they have with fanatics, whether it's, it's. It's activations they're doing for their own brands. And generally it's Something where people have multiple things. Like the, the average person who comes there from a talent perspective, they're going to activate around the partners that are most important to them. They're going to have deals with fanatics, they're going to have other things that they're making money from there. So we try to make this good for everybody. But I'll tell you one thing also that really warms my heart. How many great athletes, celebrities, artists want to be there because they want to connect with their fans on a time when they can actually focus on connecting with their fans. If you ask, you know, Guy you started with, you asked Bron, you know, when he's playing basketball, I think he's thinking about playing basketball. But a Fanatics Fest, he's connecting with his fans in a really important way and he's giving back something to his fans. For all those hundreds of millions of LeBron James fans, they get to connect in a special way with him there that they probably can't do during Bron's day job.
- [29:47]
Max Kellerman
How does the creator versus the athlete? How do you guys view that? Because last year Kai s not was the biggest guy at Fanatics Fest.
- [29:58]
Michael Rubin
He was, he was a big guy. I don't know who he was. The biggest guy.
- [30:00]
Max Kellerman
No, what I'm saying is those kids were. They were, they were following him everywhere he went. They were trampling over. It was crazy. The fandom. Now don't get me wrong, when LeBron came in, they go crazy. I get that. But still, they. They wanted to be close to Kai and that whole creator ecosystem.
- [30:21]
Michael Rubin
Look, the great thing about Fanatics fest, we have 400 of the biggest stars in the world coming to Fanatics Fest. And that starts with like, look, you grew up in the NBA. In the NBA we have from Bron to KD to Harden to Wemby to Cooper Flag to Ant to SGA to. I mean, all the stars are there, okay? And it's the same thing across every sport. But I gotta tell you something, streamers are stars now too. And watching the way speed lights up a row like speed.
- [30:51]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [30:51]
Michael Rubin
I mean, it's amazing.
- [30:52]
Max Kellerman
He's another one.
- [30:53]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, I was just.
- [30:53]
Max Kellerman
Can't go anywhere with this guy.
- [30:54]
Michael Rubin
I was just at the World cup with him for the opening a game in LA a few weeks ago. And like watching the community he's built, the family they have, it's incredible.
- [31:03]
Max Kellerman
Ohio guy. Yeah.
- [31:05]
Michael Rubin
And so for us, we have, I think, just about all the top streamers at Fanatics Fest as well. So, you know, our goal is to really put on a show that only we could put on for sports fans. And like I realized this a couple weeks ago, I was going through a run through of the content this year. I mean, there's no bigger event right now in the world than the World Cup. Okay. They do a press conference for the two remaining teams two days before the final game. It's always at the stadium where the final is MetLife. This year they took that press conference out of MetLife, moved to Fanatics Fest. If this were four years ago, you'd have Mbappe and Messi at Fanatics Fest in front of tens of thousands of fans. That's pretty cool.
- [31:46]
Max Kellerman
You would have a fanatic mess. No one would be able to get in.
- [31:49]
Michael Rubin
By the way, I think we could have it again this year. I mean, who do you think is going to be in the World cup this year? Give your predictions right now. You got a minute to think of France.
- [31:58]
Rich Paul
What's the World Cup?
- [32:00]
Max Kellerman
France will be there.
- [32:02]
Michael Rubin
Agreed.
- [32:05]
Max Kellerman
You know, I want to go with the US but I know people don't think so, but okay, so you have usa France. That's what my heart says. I definitely have France.
- [32:13]
Michael Rubin
I asked you what your brain said.
- [32:15]
Max Kellerman
Okay, I have France and Spain. Still in Spain.
- [32:21]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, absolutely.
- [32:21]
Max Kellerman
France and Spain, Max.
- [32:23]
Rich Paul
Sure, whatever.
- [32:24]
Michael Rubin
I don't, you know, by the way, I'm going through a possible rematch of France, France and Argentina. And if that happens, you're gonna have the coach and Mbappe and the coach and Messi at Fanatics Fest in front of tens of thousands of fans. We love doing things like that. I can't wait for that. By the way. I hope you guys are that day and it will.
- [32:40]
Max Kellerman
I'll be there.
- [32:41]
Michael Rubin
I asked them how much security they were going to have for the press conference. They said like 100 people. I said you probably need 500 or a thousand.
- [32:46]
Max Kellerman
No, listen, it's.
- [32:47]
Michael Rubin
I mean, football fans globally, there's nothing like it, but it's exciting. So, you know, we're honored to have like, you know, all the Knicks there who just won the championship to talk about what it meant.
- [32:57]
Max Kellerman
That's gonna be great.
- [32:57]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, that's gonna be incredible. And by the way, to have Jalen Brunson and Josh Hart interviewing Aaron Judge who's there for the first time and having Djokovic of the Fanatics games for the first time this year. Who's coming, you know, who hasn't been at Fanatics Fest before? So we love bringing that all together.
- [33:10]
Rich Paul
Study and play come together on a
- [33:13]
Michael Rubin
Windows 11 PC and for a limited time.
- [33:16]
Rich Paul
College students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal everything you
- [33:22]
Michael Rubin
need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com student offer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc. Do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready. Because Quaker's coming in hot with morning nutrition 100% whole grain oats and a good source of fiber to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kickstart your day. And that sounds absolutely delicious. Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker Official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26.
- [34:08]
Rich Paul
Let's go. Listen, Michael Rubin, we don't want to monopolize your whole day.
- [34:14]
Max Kellerman
No, we don't. But I have one more question to ask him because we do a lot of business together. What do you look for in an athlete when partnered with an athlete?
- [34:23]
Michael Rubin
Somebody who.
- [34:23]
Max Kellerman
There's different levels.
- [34:24]
Michael Rubin
Yes, for sure. So let's say, look, we work with 60,000 athletes one contract at a time. So if you'd say fanatics as a company, there's probably nobody who works with more athletes than fanatics. I'd say more than a Nike, more than an Adidas. Because we work across all sports. 6,000 total athletes today we work with. I'd say in each sport, there's three or five people that really move the needle for us on a sport by sports basis. What we really look for in those three to five people is people that really care. This isn't getting a check from them. This is they really care about what they're doing. They care about the fans. Like, look, you and I both know there are people who really value and respect their fans and there are people who just, you know, it's just a check. They don't really. They don't give a shit. And so I'd say I want people that look at this as, yes, my day job. My most important job is to do what I do on the court, on the ice, on the field, on the pitch. But I want people who are going to take the responsibility of partnering with us seriously so they can do incredible things for the fan because we love doing great things for fans. And that's what Fanax Fest is all about.
- [35:24]
Rich Paul
You needed to be around, like when Muhammad Ali was around that would, you know, because that was a guy who loved connecting with fans who just slapped his name on everything and cheap.
- [35:33]
Max Kellerman
Understand how important it is to connect with the fans.
- [35:36]
Michael Rubin
If not, we have no job. There's nothing to do.
- [35:37]
Rich Paul
But the main thing is, the main thing is, like, what. What comes across very obviously sitting here talking to you is you have an enormous passion for what you're doing, and that's who you're looking to partner with. Like, people who are passionate about it.
- [35:51]
Michael Rubin
Look, look, everyone. It's widely known how close like Brady and I are. But like Brady Hustle, you know what I love? I also love people who are teaching me every day. Like, you know, Brady and I will have competition still. Like, who's up first in the morning, who's calling each other, who's pushing each other hard. And you realize, you look at Tom Brady, you're like, there's a reason this guy won seven Super Bowls.
- [36:10]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [36:10]
Michael Rubin
Didn't have a reason, by the way. There's a reason he won the Fanatics games last year. Okay. First prize out of 100 people.
- [36:15]
Rich Paul
There's a reason you built a 14 billion dollar company.
- [36:17]
Michael Rubin
Because I'm gonna out hustle and outwork everybody and I'm gonna. I'm just gonna figure out every last detail.
- [36:23]
Max Kellerman
Hardest production for you. Fanatics Fest or your White Party.
- [36:28]
Michael Rubin
Fanatics Fest by a thousand times. Well, White Party's easy.
- [36:32]
Max Kellerman
Says who?
- [36:33]
Michael Rubin
Me.
- [36:34]
Rich Paul
Tell us about. Tell us. Tell people about the White Party.
- [36:36]
Max Kellerman
The White Party. You know, you, You. You started this thing and everyone. It was when I. The first one I went to was.
- [36:45]
Michael Rubin
You came first year, right?
- [36:46]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, it was very.
- [36:48]
Rich Paul
There's always been a White Party of one kind or another in the Hamptons. Yes, that goes back. That goes back a long time. And this is now the white part.
- [36:55]
Max Kellerman
His white.
- [36:56]
Rich Paul
But now this is the White Party.
- [36:58]
Max Kellerman
Yes.
- [36:59]
Michael Rubin
So this will be the fifth year of doing it. It's actually July 1st. What day is this? Thursday. It's next six days from now, which seems insane for me. The only thing we try to do, like, again, if you go back to how I learn and how I think a lot of us learn, it's by just having different people around that we can all learn from, push each other up, pick up information, give information. So I love bringing people together for the White Party. Very different than Fanatics Fest because Fanatics Fest you're planning. I'm already thinking about Fanatics Fest next year and how we bring everyone together for sports week in New York. Like, I'm spending hundreds of hours a year on Fanatics Fest for White Party. All you're trying to do is keep this to a really intimate group because you know, it's at my house you have 350 people. That's all people don't understand. It's a really small party.
- [37:41]
Max Kellerman
It used to be intimate and then
- [37:42]
Michael Rubin
we still still 350 people total.
- [37:45]
Max Kellerman
Oh, you dropped it back down. It's.
- [37:46]
Michael Rubin
It's most people ever was last year was 370 people or two years ago.
- [37:50]
Rich Paul
I like to give pretty small.
- [37:51]
Michael Rubin
It's pretty and, and look for me, why do we do this? Much bigger it does.
- [37:57]
Rich Paul
Big is bad, rich. I don't know if you heard about it but. But it's because it takes beloved, rich beloved.
- [38:01]
Max Kellerman
Not big beloved details. When the care and the details leave, big is bad.
- [38:04]
Michael Rubin
Yeah. Well look for, for me I think fanatics fest is a giant give back to fans. Okay. And we think of it that way. We work our asses off to do that. For me, the White Party is an honor to be able to bring some of the most amazing people in the world together. But so many great things come from. And you know that. You know how many deals come out of there, how many relationships come out there. And so for me that one's actually pretty easy because the only thing I need to do is make it from 5pm till 6am and, and the problem is last year I was hazed by my now 20 year old daughters. Like dad, you're a bitch. You went to bed before you went to bed at 3:45 because you're not tough like I am. Which kind of hurt my feelings a little bit that she could actually, she could actually outlast me. It did upset.
- [38:47]
Rich Paul
Hold on. How can you throw a party from five and then you got to stay up for that.
- [38:53]
Michael Rubin
You know the problem is when you're the host of the party and I'm not like people don't get this about my personality because you only see what you see on social media. I actually don't like alcohol, but I'm a guy's guy, so if you put me in the moment, I can go. Okay, so I might drink 10 nights
- [39:05]
Rich Paul
here and then you go and it makes you tired.
- [39:08]
Michael Rubin
Well, I go hard when I go. And the problem is there's only so many drinks a human being could drive. 165 pounds. There's only if you, if you put down, you know, nine out of every 10 shots, you're still being given a shot every 10 minutes.
- [39:21]
Max Kellerman
So would there be great provisions at the White Party? Caviar, champagne.
- [39:26]
Rich Paul
Will you let him do his own menu?
- [39:28]
Max Kellerman
I'm asking.
- [39:29]
Michael Rubin
I like his.
- [39:29]
Max Kellerman
I have my, I have My outfit. I have my invite, I have my outfit. I want to know what's going on.
- [39:34]
Michael Rubin
Listen, I think we try to. I. I'm lucky to work with great people. We try to sweat every detail from every single restaurant that's charting up for the food from. You know, by the way, from doing Cane's late night. Because everyone loves Cane's late night.
- [39:48]
Max Kellerman
Late night is their drink, by the way.
- [39:50]
Michael Rubin
Four or five o' clock in the
- [39:51]
Rich Paul
morning, that's what I was actually looking forward to.
- [39:53]
Michael Rubin
Bagels weren't enough last year. So. You know what? It starts with the most incredible food up front and it ends with us drunk eating canes like crazy.
- [40:01]
Rich Paul
Where do they bring the canes in from though?
- [40:04]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, but there's a. The cane's late night is actually better because people, you wake up, you wake up. By the time you get hungry canes, you're really hungry.
- [40:14]
Michael Rubin
I'm not eating a thing.
- [40:15]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, I won't eat either.
- [40:16]
Michael Rubin
I don't eat. Cane's late night. Three, four, five o' clock in the morning. I'm eating 10 chicken fingers.
- [40:21]
Rich Paul
That's why. That's why you crashed.
- [40:23]
Michael Rubin
No, no. If I didn't eat the chicken, I need that to keep me going.
- [40:27]
Max Kellerman
I will say before we let you go, we were in China. You talk about having your friends to give you a ride home. So Mike goes rich, would you like a ride home? Of course, I'll take a ride home. We had to gas. Remember this day? Yeah, we had to gas. We had to stop in Anchorage. We're starving. We're like, we like. We gotta get something to eat. Quick thinking. Do you know what happened that day? The pilots sent somebody out and they came back with this fresh salmon.
- [41:01]
Michael Rubin
I do remember that.
- [41:03]
Max Kellerman
This looked. Tastes like candy.
- [41:05]
Rich Paul
It was what they do. They put a hole through the ice and.
- [41:07]
Max Kellerman
Actually I don't know what they did. I. I felt like a grizzly bear on the stream. Like getting the fresh salmon. Fresh it Look. Did you remember this?
- [41:15]
Michael Rubin
I do that. That's like what we would eat at the white party. 6pm, 7pm before we kill ourselves and go crazy on canes at 4 or 5, 6 in the morning.
- [41:24]
Max Kellerman
Cuz we were stock. We didn't. I mean, where are we going to go? We only sit here for an hour to get to gas up.
- [41:30]
Rich Paul
You felt like you were catching him in your mouth in the stream like a polar.
- [41:33]
Michael Rubin
It was really good.
- [41:34]
Max Kellerman
No, I did not feel like that.
- [41:35]
Rich Paul
I did not. You're not gonna pause me when you guys are talking about intimate nights in where? Barbados or whatever you're talking about. Started the pod by saying, remember that intimate night we spent? That's when we really got close.
- [41:45]
Michael Rubin
I'd like to be like a polar bear and get some. Some.
- [41:48]
Max Kellerman
No, I just.
- [41:49]
Michael Rubin
I love big animals.
- [41:50]
Rich Paul
Yeah. It's like the most. Apathy. Watch the National Geographic thing.
- [41:52]
Michael Rubin
You get hungry, by the way. I. I know a funny story. So my algorithm and Instagram, I've always loved like big animal kills and I watch them. I don't know whether it's just like. It's just fun for me to watch.
- [42:05]
Max Kellerman
So I watch lions and sharks.
- [42:07]
Michael Rubin
Like the number. Not sharks for me. I'm scared of sharks. That's not.
- [42:10]
Rich Paul
If you talk about like on the African savannah and the.
- [42:13]
Michael Rubin
I watch.
- [42:13]
Rich Paul
I watch hyenas and the lions.
- [42:15]
Michael Rubin
I don't like. I like when the lions eat the hyenas. I'm not a hyena.
- [42:18]
Rich Paul
No, no one's. The hyenas have a bad rap. No one likes the hyenas.
- [42:21]
Michael Rubin
Rightfully so. I love watching lion kills. I watch them every day before when I wake up, when I go to bed, it's like a little bit of just extra action for me. I'm going to get into the polar bears to get the salmon.
- [42:32]
Max Kellerman
No, that. That was. That was. That was real deal salmon, I'm telling you.
- [42:36]
Rich Paul
I also sometimes fall asleep to the nature shows. My. My daughter, my 11 year old loves watching them.
- [42:42]
Max Kellerman
There's.
- [42:42]
Rich Paul
Yeah, there's one about pumas, a little puma family.
- [42:44]
Max Kellerman
And on that trip, I told you that I fall asleep to them. I didn't believe in the big three.
- [42:50]
Michael Rubin
I. So I was waiting to see whether you're going to bring that up. I remember what you told me on the plane ride home and you were 100% right. You said, this will not work in Brooklyn.
- [43:01]
Rich Paul
You mean what, Big three?
- [43:02]
Max Kellerman
No, no, no, no. Not in Brooklyn.
- [43:04]
Rich Paul
But what was the evidence for the conversation?
- [43:07]
Michael Rubin
I'm going to. Rich has to decide what he wants to share.
- [43:09]
Max Kellerman
You can share it. The conversation was that I don't believe in a big three. I believe in a big two. In depth.
- [43:17]
Rich Paul
Right.
- [43:18]
Max Kellerman
That was the conversation.
- [43:19]
Rich Paul
But then he also said. He also said something. You also said something else, which is a big three. I would argue in Brooklyn it did, but never really existed in the sense that his definition of big three is each guy could be the best player on a championship team. So. So LeBron, yes. Wade, yes. Bosh, no. As great as Bosh was. Right. But I harden. Maybe comes up a little short. Kyrie has never been the best player in a championship team, but they came pretty close. KD was. That's about as close as you get to your definition of a Big Three.
- [43:50]
Michael Rubin
Now, the one thing I've learned, and this is interesting, because I think it's the same analogy in both sports and business. And I'd love for you guys to tell me whether you agree or not. But you see, so many times people like you put these two, these three together, they're going to win it all, and then the chemistry is not there, and so it doesn't work. It's the same thing in business. You got to go and get the best athletes, but you got to get them work together. If they don't work together, you don't got shit. And so one of the jobs of a leader is to get, you know, your stars, whether it's in business, whether in sports, to work together. And that's why probably I. Maybe I was unrealistic, but I always thought, like, hey, if I put a little bit more, I can be the glue.
- [44:28]
Rich Paul
You could will it into existence.
- [44:29]
Michael Rubin
The reality is, you know, all things considered, I probably provided, you know, some real level of glue at the point that I was, you know, involved. But it's hard to get stars in business, in sports, to work together. How many times have we seen things that seem so logical blow up and not because.
- [44:45]
Max Kellerman
Because you're basing on one thing. If you're basing the logic on these three very high level, talented players can work at the game of basketball. Okay, that's very surface level. That's like the last coat of the paint. But when you strip that down, you have to then dive into, okay, what's important to each one of these guys. If those three things aren't on the same frequency, then that's.
- [45:12]
Rich Paul
This Knicks championship this year is a perfect example of that. And you have Brunson and Josh Hart doing stuff together. When you see Brunson and Josh Hart, Mikhail Bridges and these guys all together, the chemistry is obvious.
- [45:23]
Max Kellerman
Yes, but it's just like an equalizer. The treble, the bass, the volume, those things aren't all one line.
- [45:32]
Rich Paul
Right. In other words, they need to be at different levels.
- [45:34]
Max Kellerman
Yes. In order to be successful. Because, as you know, Mike, the reason why I said you could. You can tell what I said if you want to. I won't say it come from you, but. But I'll let you get to your point. The point I'm making is, once you do that, now you have to check every box, okay? You have to Evaluate the people around each one of these guys. What do they say to them? Then you got to say, what's their approach, their work ethic? Do they go home? Do they watch film? How much do they care? All those things have to align for all three people in order for all three of those guys to really be aligned. Therefore, it's important to have a balance. So a little bit here, there, there. And they may care about different things at different times. 8 out of 10, 7 out of 10, 6 out of 10. But it works better that way.
- [46:23]
Michael Rubin
You know, I'm going to keep the conversation that we had on the plane ride home between the two of us. But what I will tell you is Brady always says something to me, and it's so fucking true. He always says to me, michael, like, there's one ball, and I can't have people fighting over the ball. People need to know their role. They need to know, this is your job.
- [46:42]
Rich Paul
This is your job, starring your role.
- [46:44]
Michael Rubin
And you know what, and recognize your role, and don't try to do something different than your role. And that's why he was so good at what he did, because he put, you know, he had people in the roles. People understood the roles. You know, can't fight.
- [46:56]
Max Kellerman
There's only one ball, and he's Tom Brady. And I can guarantee you, if you ask Tom Brady, how many complaints did you get from guys saying, I was open coming back from the. Into the huddle? He'll probably tell you a thousand.
- [47:06]
Michael Rubin
He got a few. Yeah.
- [47:07]
Max Kellerman
It wasn't just Randy Moss, right? I'm sure it was him, but I'm sure it was also somebody else. Who. Who was it? Randy Moss? Randy Moss can complain. This guy, maybe not so much, but. Mike, thank you so much. Matt.
- [47:20]
Michael Rubin
We.
- [47:20]
Max Kellerman
We. We know you don't have to do this stuff. You're a busy man around this time. We really appreciate you.
- [47:25]
Michael Rubin
I can't wait to have you guys at Festa. And you're coming back, right?
- [47:27]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, I'll be there.
- [47:29]
Commercial Announcer
Good.
- [47:29]
Max Kellerman
Yeah. But this year, because it's Max. I'm gonna be your agent today, okay? This year, because it's so much going on, we need the right credential. We had it last year, but I know this year be a different.
- [47:42]
Michael Rubin
Where's Mayor?
- [47:43]
Max Kellerman
Mayor.
- [47:44]
Michael Rubin
Mayor, get your ass out here. How do we get these guys the right credentials?
- [47:47]
Max Kellerman
Whichever one to go. To go with the fabric, with the dust on it. Yeah, the sprinkles, whatever it is, we need that one there.
- [47:55]
Michael Rubin
Yeah, we've got to put him. He's got to be holding the the trophies up in the middle of the championship parade.
- [47:59]
Max Kellerman
We need that because last year was was great. I mean I was at the press conference.
- [48:04]
Rich Paul
That was the big press.
- [48:04]
Michael Rubin
You guys got to go to the Crawford press conference, by the way. That's gonna be insane. I actually will say the only thing I put on the agenda that I'm actually gonna go watch as an interested like just consumer and fan is the FIFA press conference. Like I can't wait to see that.
- [48:17]
Max Kellerman
Okay.
- [48:18]
Michael Rubin
It's gonna be fun. Well, honored to be with you guys.
- [48:20]
Rich Paul
Hey, great. Great to talk to you. Sit down and thank you for doing this always.
- [48:24]
Michael Rubin
Much love.
- [48:25]
Max Kellerman
And by the way, we gotta talk Mitchell. And that's because I have some ideas. Good. Yeah. They've been supporting us by the way.
- [48:33]
Michael Rubin
And then the new CEO is doing great. Yeah, she's amazing. Yeah.
- [48:36]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [48:37]
Michael Rubin
And you gotta give coming to me from that. I don't know if you know yet. Did you get a call in the last couple days?
- [48:40]
Max Kellerman
I did not get a call. I like gifts.
- [48:42]
Rich Paul
Yeah, no need. Mitchell and Nesta do make some Charles Oakley jerseys. Some Nick chart. They were sold out forever.
- [48:47]
Michael Rubin
Time. Yes.
- [48:48]
Rich Paul
Charles Oakley jerseys, please.
- [48:49]
Michael Rubin
This guy's like the inventor. I've been there from the beginning.
- [49:13]
Rich Paul
Foreign.
- [49:19]
Michael Rubin
This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense. There's no place like Chrome.
- [49:39]
Commercial Announcer
Check responses.
- [49:40]
Rich Paul
Setup required.
- [49:40]
Michael Rubin
Compatibility and availability various 18.
- [49:44]
Rich Paul
You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless. But so is our gear. Level up your summer@columbia.com to spend more time out outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome, Columbia. Engineered for whatever.