Transcript

A (0:05)

Rich. I think my daughter has cracked the code. I think she cracked the code. So. And this. I have a whole thought about this. So I'm like, this girl can eat whatever she wants, right? And she stays thin, she stays lean, right? She can eat whatever she wants. She's young. She's young. That's what you think. Oh, she's young, but she's done growing. It's not like she's going. She's 17. She's not going up anymore. Right. And I realize when you think about, like, staying in shape, you think about. Or not getting fat, you think about diet and exercise, right? Tennis season's over. She's not playing basketball this year. She's not getting a lot of exercise right now. Right? But because of that, she's not hungry. Like, she used to be hungry because she's not getting exercise.

B (0:52)

So she eats one time a day.

A (0:54)

Yeah, she eats snacks and has whatever she wants for dessert, all this stuff. And because of that, she's not really hungry for meals, so she's staying. So she has one or two meals a day. Somehow, by not exercising and eating whatever she wants, she's staying thin.

B (1:10)

No, she's young, and that may just be her bill. She may not ever pick up a ton of weight. I'll tell you what. Just because you picked up weight don't mean she has to pick up weight.

A (1:20)

See, but when I was. This is the crazy thing. This is like, when people are like, oh, don't let your kids, like, drink Coca Cola or whatever, right? Too much sugar, this and that. But I think exactly the opposite. When you're a kid and your metabolism is fast and you're growing and everything. I'm not saying give the kids so much sugar that they're diabetic or anything like that, but I'm saying, like, that's when you can have sugar. That's when you can drink the soda. Like, you don't need the Diet Coke or the Coke Zero, which is what I drink now. You could have dessert. You could have all that stuff. You could have as much pasta as you want. When you're young, your body burns it up.

B (1:57)

It burns it off. It does, yeah.

A (1:58)

The metabolism is good. So what people want to do is not let the kid have candy or all this stuff. And then when you grow up, you can't have it anymore. When you're young is the time to have it.

B (2:07)

I've gotten to the point where I have to have a Coke at dinner.

A (2:11)

Yeah. Oh. Oh.

B (2:12)

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: Finals Previews, MVP Criteria, and Popularity vs. Fame
Date: February 25, 2026 | The Ringer

Overview

In this engaging episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul dig into urgent basketball topics ahead of the NBA Finals: potential finals matchups, the nuances of MVP voting and player value, and a thoughtful exploration of "popularity" versus "fame" in pro sports. Throughout, Max and Rich showcase their signature rapport, mixing expert insight, playful debate, and entertaining storytelling. The episode finishes with listener questions tackling rookie advice and the elusive NBA GOAT—framed by reflections on Wemby’s spectacular rise.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Staying in Shape & Diet Myths

[00:05–02:18]

Max marvels at his daughter's ability to "eat whatever she wants" and stay thin despite not playing sports, sparking a conversation about metabolism and youth.
Both agree: while young, it's ok to indulge—your body burns it off.
Quote:
- Max: “When you're young, your body burns it up.” [01:40]
Segue into everyday pleasures, like having a Coke at dinner.

Dating, Attraction, and What Really Matters

[02:23–05:36]

Rich posits women have more leeway in choosing partners regardless of status—a Chris Rock/Beyoncé-Jay-Z analogy surfaces.
Rich: “Most men probably think the more I have, the more I can get...but when all that smoke clears...she's gonna choose who she wants to choose.” [04:32]
Max and Rich conclude that character and connection ultimately outweigh status or fame in long-term relationships.

Finals Previews: Pistons, Thunder, Celtics, Nuggets

[07:19–14:18]

Deep-dive into likely Finals matchups—Thunder vs. Pistons and Celtics vs. Nuggets.
Emphasis on playoff seedings, the impact of hard playoff series, and the parity in the league.
Caution: A healthy 76ers squad as an 8th seed would be dangerous for any top contender.
Quote:
- Rich: “The more games you play in the playoffs, the more risk of injury it is. People wear down." [10:00]

Who’s the Real Best Team? Spurs, Cade’s Lack of Robin, and the Wemby Phenomenon

[13:13–22:47]

Rich gets “flowers” for predicting Pistons’ vulnerability due to lack of a strong #2 behind Cade.
Discussion shifts to the Spurs—Max argues regular season dominance means they might be the best team; Rich highlights their “no drama” culture and team-first mentality.
On Wemby:
- Max: "I'm not sure that Wemby isn't already the best player in the world. He's in the conversation. He's impossible." [15:50]
- Rich: "What amazes me more than anything is…that a guy of that size would dive on the floor for a loose ball." [17:46]
Why aren’t the Spurs perceived as favorites? Max credits market size and branding; Rich says it's because they're "not loud"—they stick to business.

Popularity vs. Fame: What Makes an Athlete Famous?

[22:48–32:28]

Max recounts SGA being a Jeopardy clue that stumped contestants—provoking a debate on how “famous” top athletes really are.
Rich differentiates popularity (well-known within a circle, people like you) versus fame (ubiquitous global recognition à la Michael Jackson/MJ).
Key Quotes:
- Rich: "Athletes are extremely popular. But most aren’t famous." [23:38]
- "Famous means you can show up in a foreign country and people know who you are." [25:37]
Practical advice for athletes: Don’t overspend as if you’re globally famous, know the difference to save money.
Memorable moment: Bantering about which athletes could fly commercial, and quips about Max’s financial advice skills.

MVP Criteria: Valuable = Best? The Flawed Logic

[32:52–43:50]

Max asserts "most valuable" and "best" are synonyms in evaluating NBA players and breaks down “marginal utility” in the context of MVP voting.
Both criticize the inconsistency of MVP selection: popularity contest, inconsistent metrics, and voter biases.
Rich: "The MVP voting…is like my golf game. It's all over the place." [36:03]
Propose possible solutions:
- Separate regular season and playoff MVPs
- Voting committees made up of a mix—media, players, execs (and former MVPs? maybe not)
Max’s “5 minute rant”: True MVP cannot be known before Finals end—should reward the best player in high leverage games, not just regular-season excellence.

The Value of IQ & Basketball Fundamentals

[44:28–55:01]

Rich and Max agree top teams need high basketball IQ—execution of fundamentals, situational awareness, and adaptability are prerequisites for championships.
Max analogizes to chess: seeing the "signal" (fundamentals) through the "noise" (chaos).
Rich explains importance of being “a pro” and recounts being drilled in basics (help line, ball line, proper closeouts, coach’s drills).
Critique of youth basketball culture: too many games, not enough practice or focus on fundamentals, leading to underdeveloped players with athleticism but lacking basketball “instincts.”
Racism/systemic bias discussion: not about skin color per se, but the broken developmental system in U.S. hoops.

Listener Mailbag & Notable Questions

[55:56–62:20]

Should the NBA Add a "Pippen Award" for Best #2?

Listener Mike proposes an award for the “second-best player”—named for Scottie Pippen.
Both hosts agree: the idea would be unpopular among players; and the NBA already prizes the impactful #2 via all-time team conversations.
Quote:
- Rich: "No one wants the Pippen Award. Pippen doesn't even want the Pippen Award. But you’d want to play like Pippen." [58:51]

Rookie Advice: Leave Your High School & College Accolades Behind

Rich: "Take all the trophies, put them in a box...when you get drafted to the NBA, you become one of 450. Nothing you did matters." [61:00–61:19]
The NBA is a new start—nothing carries over but your work ethic and adaptability.

Wemby & The GOAT Debate

[63:15–67:51]

Max and Rich muse on possible future "GOAT" candidates—Is Wemby the next to truly rival MJ or LeBron if he stays healthy?
Rich: "If he stays healthy and if people don’t try to penalize him for how it looks…yes." [65:04]
Extended tangent about injuries derailing great careers—if healthy, Wemby has the potential to be the greatest.
Quick aside—Kyrie as “most skillful player ever” but not the best overall (Max: because “knowing how to deploy all those skills” is different than merely having them). [66:57]

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

On Popularity vs. Fame
Rich: "Athletes are extremely popular. But most aren’t famous." [23:38]
Rich: "Fame is a global thing. If you're talking about flying private from LA to Chicago, yeah, of course. But I'm talking about fame as… worldwide." [28:49]
On MVP Criteria
Max: "Value and best, they're synonyms…MVP should be about the best player, but it always changes." [33:29, 36:03]
Rich: "The MVP voting…is like my golf game. It's all over the place." [36:03]
On Basketball IQ
Rich: "I don't think that you can be a dumb team and win a championship." [45:04]
Max: "The players who see the signal from the noise by sticking to fundamental basketball are the guys you want on your team." [48:09]
On Wemby as the Next GOAT
Max: "Wemby right now is the first guy since LeBron where I'm like, if this dude stays healthy, could he be the goat one day?" [64:36]
Rich: "If he stays healthy...my answer is yes." [65:04]
On Rookie Mindset
Rich: "Take all the trophies, put them in a box...when you get drafted to the NBA, you become one of 450. Nothing you did before this matters." [61:00–61:19]

Memorable Moments & Banter

Max and Rich’s riff about which athletes could (or should) fly commercial and the “literal price of fame” [24:05–32:28]
Max’s playful insistence on the logic of “value = best” in MVP conversations and Rich’s golf self-deprecation [36:03]
The running inside-joke about Max getting Rich “in trouble” on air [05:54, 49:18]
Listener proposal for a “Pippen Award”—quickly shot down but sparks nostalgic praise for Scottie Pippen and his hypothetical value in today’s league [55:56–59:59, 59:07–60:10]

Timestamps for Major Segments

00:05–05:36: Youth, metabolism, and attraction/dating dynamics
07:19–14:18: NBA Finals previews (Thunder, Pistons, Celtics, Nuggets)
13:13–22:47: Pistons’ lack of a No. 2 and the Spurs/Wemby discussion
22:48–32:28: Popularity vs. Fame debate (SGA, Mahomes, Judge, Ronaldo)
32:52–43:50: MVP criteria breakdown and voting flaws
44:28–55:01: The role of IQ and fundamentals in championships, youth hoops critique
55:56–62:20: Listener mail (Pippen Award, rookie advice)
63:15–67:51: Wemby in the GOAT debate, nature of greatness, health, and skill
67:51–End: Wrap-up, final jokes, tease of upcoming Bill Simmons discussion

Overall Tone & Language

The episode balances high-level basketball expertise with breezy, candid, and unfiltered conversation. Both hosts trade playful jabs and personal anecdotes but always return to serious, considered takes on the culture and competitive fabric of the NBA. The language remains direct and jargon-free, with frequent asides and analogies designed to clarify complex points (“signal and the noise,” “literal price of fame,” sports/finance crossovers).

This summary captures all the major discussions, memorable lines, and analytic deep-dives, ideal for listeners who want a fast but thorough digest of the episode.