Game 1 NBA Finals Reactions With Antonio Daniels and Gary Payton | Game Over

Summary

---

Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Episode: Game 1 NBA Finals Reactions With Antonio Daniels and Gary Payton

Date: June 4, 2026

Host: The Ringer

---

Episode Overview

In this episode of "Game Over," Max Kellerman and Rich Paul are joined by former NBA player and analyst Antonio Daniels and Hall of Famer Gary Payton to break down Game 1 of the 2026 NBA Finals between the San Antonio Spurs and the New York Knicks. The episode focuses on reactions to the opener, deep dives into player performances, series adjustments, coaching nuances, and the larger context of this Finals matchup—with several rich anecdotes and comparisons to basketball history.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Initial Reactions: Knicks Take Game 1

Timestamps: 03:09-04:42

• Max opens with the context: He believed the Spurs would win the title barring a hot Knicks team out of the East; Knicks have, in fact, become "arguably the hottest team of all time" (03:21).
• Knicks grab Game 1 on the road, overcoming an early 14-point deficit. All agree it's a statement that raises the risk of a sweep if Spurs can't recover quickly.
  • "Right now, it doesn't look like it matters who they play." – Rich Paul (03:45)
  • "They’re playing with house money." – Max Kellerman (04:23)

2. Is Game 1 a 'Must-Win' for the Spurs?

Timestamps: 04:42-06:19

• Max sees it as a must-win; Antonio Daniels disagrees, referencing Spurs’ tendency to lose Game 1s but recover ("We watched the San Antonio Spurs lose Game 1... at home as well," 04:47).
• Spurs lacked standout performances from their usual stars.
  • "No one had a... game by the end," – Antonio Daniels (05:37)
  • Discussion on the value of 'rest vs. rhythm' (06:08)

3. Knicks’ Record-Breaking Run & Team Mentality

Timestamps: 06:24-11:27

• Knicks’ playoff run highlighted: record point differentials, resilience after deficits.
• The nature of this Knicks team: not just getting leads but coming from behind, displaying grit.
  • "They're not a great shooting team... but they went cold." – Rich Paul (07:18)
  • "Knicks play like... the Spurs played the Knicks better than anyone and still lost by double digits." – Max Kellerman (11:39)

4. Star Performers: Jalen Brunson and Victor Wembanyama

Timestamps: 11:27-13:46, 54:44-76:09

• Brunson’s clutch playoff scoring is statistically historic: led the league in fourth-quarter playoff points for multiple years (13:46).
  • "Jalen Brunson... basically give the San Antonio Spurs death by a thousand paper cuts. And that's who he is, though." – Antonio Daniels (13:29)
• Wemby’s struggle to establish a post presence is debated. He’s more KD than Shaq, but both expect he’ll develop as he matures.
  • "Wemby's a lot closer to Kevin Durant than he is to Shaquille O’Neal." – Antonio Daniels (08:06)
  • "He can’t post up... he's a baby, he'll learn." – Max Kellerman (08:01)

Notable Dialogue

• The group examines the evolving NBA post game: fewer back-to-basket bigs, discussion of modern stars who post (09:05-09:27).
• On Jalen Brunson’s amnesia: praised as elite for his short memory after mistakes, a trait compared to Kobe Bryant (17:05-17:27).

5. Coaching and Adjustments

Timestamps: 19:11-24:39, 40:15-44:34

• Knicks' defensive matchups: Mitch Robinson and OG Anunoby are ideal Wemby defenders, changing the dynamic of Spurs’ offense significantly (19:11-20:17).
• Strategic adjustments discussed:
  • Spurs must get Wemby moving with screen actions.
  • Carter Bryant and other Spurs ‘puppies’ (young, athletic bigs) could be disruptors but must value possessions.
  • Evolving Knicks offense under Mike Brown: less Brunson-centric, more movement, more play initiators, keeps everyone energized late.
    • “What we've seen in the evolution of their offense is Mike Brown taking some of what he's learned in Golden State.” – Antonio Daniels (23:38)

6. Historical Comparisons and Broader Perspectives

Timestamps: 34:49-42:14, 62:53-67:56

• Knicks’ run compared to the “beautiful game” 2014 Spurs. Max predicts this Knicks core could win two titles in a four-year window.
• Discussion of the rarity and significance of two Black head coaches in the Finals (38:47-40:02).
• Antonio Daniels shares wisdom from his 1999 Finals experience—never take getting to the Finals for granted (48:31).

7. Fan Atmosphere and Road Warrior Knicks Fans

Timestamps: 30:55-32:37

• Knicks fans' huge presence in San Antonio noted, with stories of private jets and Wall Street money following the team.
  • "So many of my friends... they're just going back tonight." – Rich Paul (31:47)
  • "That was a flex." – Gary Payton (31:58)

8. What the Spurs Need to Adjust and the Outlook for Game 2

Timestamps: 45:42-47:59, 67:26-72:57

• Antonio Daniels expects improvements from De’Aaron Fox and Castle in Game 2, emphasizing this is where coaching growth becomes key.
• The panel underscores the importance of valuing possessions and adjusting defensive strategies, especially during crunch time.
  • "If it was me, I would basically double Brunson... get the ball out of his hands and make the other people beat us." – Gary Payton (68:39)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Jalen Brunson's Clutch Gene

• “I watched that young man go out there and basically give the San Antonio Spurs death by a thousand paper cuts. And that's who he is, though.”
  — Antonio Daniels (13:29)
• “Short memory. He's dangerous, man.”
  — Rich Paul on Brunson (16:50)
• “Would you rather, the way Brunson is playing right now… is there anyone in the NBA you’d take over him?”
  — Max Kellerman (73:49)
  — Gary Payton names only Anthony Edwards and Steph Curry (75:14-75:53).

On Wemby’s Early Career and Spurs’ Long-Term Outlook

• “If they… this is the worst Victor Wemby will ever be.”
  — Antonio Daniels (48:02)
• “The Spurs are running the NBA… Wemby stays healthy, Spurs are running the NBA.”
  — Max Kellerman (37:22)
• Cautionary tale: "What I have learned is not to take that for granted… That is my only time ever getting to the NBA Finals."
  — Antonio Daniels (48:31)

On Coaching, Adjustments, and Player Development

• “This is chess now… You have to love that, even if [the Spurs] wind up losing.”
  — Antonio Daniels & Max Kellerman (46:11-47:38)
• “Sometimes a guy’s imprint is so obvious on a team.”
  — Max Kellerman on Mike Brown (41:29)

On the Knicks' Historical Context

• “If they win the championship, [the Knicks] will be talked about with the 2014 Spurs.”
  — Max Kellerman (33:49)

---

Detailed Segment Timestamps

• 01:25-03:45: Introduction and playful banter with Antonio Daniels
• 03:09-04:42: Max’s big take – Knicks’ historic heat, danger sign for Spurs
• 04:42-06:19: Is this a ‘must win’ for the Spurs? Daniels says no; precedent and context
• 07:00-11:27: Knicks’ ability to come back from deficits, Spurs’ shooting woes, resilience
• 13:29-17:27: Deep dive on Brunson’s playoff heroics and the ‘short memory’ mentality
• 19:11-24:39: Defensive matchups, Wemby’s challenges, Spurs adjustment needs
• 34:49-37:22: Knicks’ potential as an emerging dynasty, importance of balanced rosters
• 40:15-44:34: Mike Brown’s career-altering playoff run, New York coaching pressure
• 45:42-47:59: Spurs’ coach Mitch Johnson learning under Popovich’s shadow
• 54:44-76:09: Gary Payton joins; old school vs. new school comparisons, winning mentality, adjustments, and psychology for Game 2
• 68:39-72:37: GP’s advice: double Brunson late, force others to beat you, and expect a fightback in Game 2
• 73:49-75:53: Would you take anyone over Brunson right now? Only Edwards and Curry make the cut
• 76:46-77:47: Nostalgia: Payton’s Sonics, jersey culture, and playful banter

---

Closing Notes

• The hosts and guests agree: The Knicks are historically hot, but the series isn’t over. The next game is critical, with plenty of time for the Spurs’ youth and coaching staff to grow and make adjustments.
• Echoed wisdom: Never take Finals appearances for granted; things can change fast in the NBA.
• The episode is filled with mutual respect, historical context, and playful friendships—delivered with authenticity and basketball wisdom.

---

For listeners who missed the episode, this breakdown captures both the tactical and personal stakes of the 2026 NBA Finals—and why everyone should keep watching.

Transcript

[FanDuel Announcer]

The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with FanDuel Predict.

[Max Kellerman]

Predict the spread, total points and even the game winner.

[FanDuel Announcer]

Sign up and get a $25 bonus offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, registered futures commission merchant 18. Bonus is non withdrawable and expires 7 days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] predict bonus offer terms this

[Sponsor Announcer]

episode is brought to you by Disney. The Disney Hulu HBO Max Bundle. The best in entertainment, all in one bundle. This month streamed Pixar's blockbuster family hit Hoppers on Disney. The hit horror comedy Send Help on Hulu. I like that movie. Season three of the HBO original series House of the Dragon on hbo. Max. All you have to do is get the Disney Hulu HBO Max bundle today. All of these and more streaming soon available with Disney Plus Hulu Max bundle plans starting at $19.99 a month term supply. Visit DisneyPlus Hulu Max bundle.com for detail.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, game [e-mail] and look who's back.

[Max Kellerman]

Is this the first return?

[Rich Paul]

It is, but it makes sense because he actually knows basketball and this is the finals and we want to talk real basketball.

[Max Kellerman]

We want to introduce our guest, I think.

[Rich Paul]

Does he need an introduction? Okay, Antonio Daniels here again. He's back with us, Max. You didn't get him here. I got him here.

[Max Kellerman]

Spurs sixth man, back in the jacket.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, but you didn't get him here, Max. I got him here.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, he's actually. He's actually like, lives. He's back.

[Rich Paul]

That's true. But you didn't even think to text a guy. Yeah, and I gave you the heads up.

[Max Kellerman]

That's true. That's.

[Antonio Daniels]

That's a fact.

[Rich Paul]

It's okay.

[Max Kellerman]

That's.

[Rich Paul]

You can pay for myself.

[Max Kellerman]

Thank you for coming back.

[Antonio Daniels]

Thank you guys for having me.

[Max Kellerman]

It's like being in the middle of like a. Like a bickering couple or something, right?

[Antonio Daniels]

Yes, a little bit.

[Rich Paul]

Max. You just pay for the quesadillas tomorrow. It's all good.

[Antonio Daniels]

Yeah, I saw Rich at the game. I saw him at the game, but I couldn't. I couldn't get to him. He had like a little force field in between him, him and regular people. So I couldn't. I was just like, hey, Richard. Nothing.

[Max Kellerman]

If you want to leave a voicemail. Do you think I know the number by heart? By now. 424-240-8341. We'll do voicemails and emails. Maybe not today.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, maybe not voicemail. We, we, we have Antonio Daniels right now and another guest coming on the glove, Gary Payton. And, and here's the thing, Max. We won't get away with, with what we got away with last time, which was we kept him here for two hours, man. His whole family, his wife and daughters was here. I'm not doing that again.

[Antonio Daniels]

Half hour sounds good.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not getting on the bad side. It's already late.

[Max Kellerman]

So he, he's looking at me like I got six heads because when, before you got here, Rich, we were chopping it up a little bit and I, this is, this. I'm going to give you my big reaction to the game.

[Rich Paul]

Okay?

[Max Kellerman]

And this is coming from someone who in the middle of the season said spurs are going to win the championship.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, you did.

[Max Kellerman]

The only thing that might stop them is if the Knicks get out of the East.

[Rich Paul]

You did say that too.

[Max Kellerman]

It was a bad matchup for them. But since then, the Knicks have been arguably the hottest team of all time. Not just hot, normal hot. Their, their, their point differential through the playoffs is setting records. Now, I understand they're not having had to run a gauntlet like I get. I'm not saying they're the greatest team of all time, but they are one of the hottest teams of all time right now.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, right now it doesn't look like it matters who they play.

[Max Kellerman]

Exactly. But they go on the road. You know, my theory with this is if a team has a lot of time off, they're well rested. But the other team that's having to play competitive ball has an advantage in Game 1 because they're in that championship mode. They just won a great Game 7, or at least a really good one against the defending champs. And they, they're ready to go. And then, and the other team might be a little stale. And then Mitch Robinson with the metacarpal and this and that and then, and then even in this game, Jalen Brunson was out of the game for a minute, like early in the game and it was always his knee.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

And the spurs had a lead.

[Rich Paul]

14 points at home.

[Max Kellerman]

Now game two. The Knicks will not be rusty. They're playing with house money. I thought the spurs would, I thought the Knicks would get a split because they'd win game two. They won game one. The, the, the spurs, or this was a must win game for them. They're in danger of being swept I completely disagree.

[Antonio Daniels]

I. I don't think.

[Max Kellerman]

Call me a crazy Spurs.

[Antonio Daniels]

I'm not. No, just disagree.

[Max Kellerman]

What a gentleman.

[Antonio Daniels]

The thing is, I'm not going to tell you crazy. I'm not going to. No, I just disagree. And the reason I disagree because it's definitely not a must win. We watched the San Antonio spurs lose Game 1 to Minnesota at home as well. You know what I mean? Like, that's no question. It's not Minnesota. But when you look at tonight's game and Rich and I were just talking about this at home, who stood out for the San Antonio spurs early?

[Max Kellerman]

Harper.

[Antonio Daniels]

No, no, no. Period.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, I thought Harper to be that young in his first finals.

[Antonio Daniels]

Agreed, agreed.

[Max Kellerman]

And he blacked out. I mean it was like, oh my God.

[Antonio Daniels]

So you got, you got Dylan Harper.

[Rich Paul]

Yep.

[Antonio Daniels]

Who else?

[Max Kellerman]

Champagne was hot from the corner initially. Yep.

[Rich Paul]

Nobody else stood out.

[Antonio Daniels]

That's my issue. That so, so here's my thing and when you. When I look at these games, no

[Max Kellerman]

one had an outstanding game by the

[Antonio Daniels]

end and they're not even outstanding game. No one had a. Like, think of how we've thought of Stefan Castle.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Antonio Daniels]

Right. How we've thought of Victor Weminyama, how we thought of Keldon Johnson and these are guys that were huge. And that seven game series versus Oklahoma. And the thing is the whole rest versus rhythm conversation, me and my wife were having this conversation this afternoon. This is a results driven league. If the Knicks played well and they win now everyone's saying that the rest helped them. If the spurs play well and they win now people are saying that the rhythm helped them.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't think the rest helped the Knicks. That's my point.

[Antonio Daniels]

Point. I think and I always have.

[Max Kellerman]

We talked about, we, we argued this last year, but off camera before the show, I thought the Thunder were going to win the championship by about the middle of the year. Because I do trust at a certain point, if you're not just not being overly analytical to say if you're setting point differential records, you're probably the best team in the league. Right. Like I don't have to overthink it at that point.

[Antonio Daniels]

Do you think that's true though?

[Max Kellerman]

I think if you're setting point differential records over an extended period of time, especially with the chips on the line. Yeah. You're probably the best team in the league. You're setting records.

[Rich Paul]

I think you can't take anything away from the Knicks.

[Antonio Daniels]

Agreed.

[Rich Paul]

They fought. They were down big. First they were up, then they were down. It was a seven. What? Seven. Or nine point game at halftime. They were all tied up to get into the fourth quarter. And the spurs did what they do normally in a situation. They went cold. They went cold.

[Max Kellerman]

They're not a great shooting team.

[Rich Paul]

They went cold in the, in the, in Vegas, you know, in season, in the cup championship game, and they wouldn't cold tonight. And I thought that their guys, I thought, obviously, I think de' Aaron will be better game too. Sure. I thought Castle wasn't himself tonight.

[Antonio Daniels]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

And when I say they wasn't themselves, they were still competing. But I felt like it was a little hesitation as it pertains to being in the flow of the game.

[Antonio Daniels]

You didn't feel him as much.

[Rich Paul]

No, you didn't feel him. And I think that part of that's

[Max Kellerman]

because Towns was out playing Wemby. He's out playing him.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But it's because Wemby, and this is a problem in his game. He can't post.

[Rich Paul]

He can't post up.

[Max Kellerman]

This is not just against the Knicks, against anyone. And I think because he's a baby, he'll learn.

[Antonio Daniels]

But also I think that people are trying to force that on him. Wemby's a lot closer to Kevin Durant than he is to Shaquille o'.

[Max Kellerman]

Neal. Always said it. Always said it.

[Antonio Daniels]

Yeah. And the thing is, everybody's like, well, you're seven foot five. You need to get down low. Well, that's not. That's not what he does. No, I get that.

[Max Kellerman]

You're right. I'm not saying he needs to be Shaq. I'm saying you need to at least be able to post up your man. You have a huge height advantage.

[Antonio Daniels]

But if you have a height advantage,

[Rich Paul]

you can shoot over top of him.

[Antonio Daniels]

Yeah, if you have a height advantage, but yet I have a center of

[Rich Paul]

gravity advantage, then your height doesn't matter.

[Antonio Daniels]

Exactly. Bingo.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, listen, I understand. And as he gets older and stronger, that will be more of his game, even if it ever takes over his game again.

[Rich Paul]

But Max, I think you're saying he's

[Max Kellerman]

getting moved off the spot, but I

[Rich Paul]

think you're saying that he needs to post because the spurs lack a post presence.

[Max Kellerman]

Lack of post presence and have unreliable shooting.

[Rich Paul]

But had they. But if they were able to gain a post presence, then you don't think.

[Max Kellerman]

Then someone else can do it.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, I agree. Yes. That's just an addition.

[Antonio Daniels]

But who.

[Rich Paul]

Who does have a post presence in today's NBA? Yeah, not many. I mean, right? LeBron's backing guys down.

[Antonio Daniels]

Jokic.

[Rich Paul]

Jokic, Julius Randle Car, Anthony Town.

[Max Kellerman]

He doesn't do it a lot, but he can.

[Rich Paul]

Brunson has more of a post.

[Antonio Daniels]

I was going to say the same thing. Brunson is the best player on the New York Knicks with his back to the basket, 6 foot 10.

[Rich Paul]

But he's so crafty, he rolls off of you. And the thing about it is when you trap Brunson off the ball screen and he, and he kind of hesitates and goes, he always goes back left. But people don't realize it's so hard to guard a left handed player. That's his dominant hand and he's so great at finishing. Going left, I mean can finish either way. But tonight he made some tough shots and again it seems like when the going, when it came to crunch time, the Knicks knew where the ball was going.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, first of all, you're right. This one didn't have a good game. This one didn't have a good. The Knicks didn't have. It's not like Josh Hart. They didn't have a good game where he had three.

[Antonio Daniels]

But that's going to happen at some point. But that's the thing about Josh Hart. Josh, you don't have to, he doesn't have to score to impact the game or to have. Let me, let me. Not to impact the game but to have a good game. I covered Josh Hart in New Orleans for whatever it was two or three years. Josh Hart can go scoreless and be one of the most impactful players.

[Rich Paul]

He had foul trouble tonight and still came in and passed.

[Max Kellerman]

I agree, but I'm saying in a seven game series or even if it's four, however many games it goes, you figure Hart's good for at least one night where he gets hot. But he. This is not that night. And this is a one first game.

[Rich Paul]

Like here's what we can rest our hat on, here's what we can talk about. It's a long series.

[Max Kellerman]

Maybe I've been.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying it's a long series now if the spurs go down 02, it's a different dynamic. If the spurs can come back and win one at home and they're going to New York, then you know, I've been a part of series. Series. Things happen in series. But we have to tip our hat to the Knicks tonight, no question. Because the spurs had an opportunity to bury him. They missed. They miss offensive put backs. They missed kickouts. Up 14, up 13. They had opportunity. They had it.

[Max Kellerman]

I think you're underestimating both of you. What the Knicks are right now.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm not.

[Max Kellerman]

No, what I'm saying is. What I'm saying is right now, you said it earlier, so I take that back.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I'm not underestimating this ever.

[Max Kellerman]

The Knicks play like. Actually, the spurs played the Knicks better than anyone's played the Knicks and still lost by double digits, you know, and they had to lead and everything because the Knicks have been beating teams by 40 points.

[Rich Paul]

But. But what impresses me most about the Knicks, it's not like they're coming to the game and they're starting a game off and they're up 20, and then you cut the lead to 12 and they. They keep it at 8 and you never get the lead again. They're getting down by double digits and they still. And they're roaring back and beating you. To me, that's the most impressive thing the Knicks have done all playoffs.

[Antonio Daniels]

Listen, man, Jalen Brunson, when I was on with you guys last time, we had the.

[Rich Paul]

Who would you take? Who would you take?

[Antonio Daniels]

Jalen Brunson or Luka? And I said Jalen Brunson. And you know, they're. Oh, how can you possibly say that? And there are so many different reasons as to why. One of the reasons.

[Max Kellerman]

Low hanging fruit. I think there's some guys. We said we take over Brunson, that we need to reconsider.

[Antonio Daniels]

Well, I mean, the thing is, we did.

[Rich Paul]

We said Giannis, we said Jokic.

[Max Kellerman]

Can I say one thing about. Can I give you this? I want to give him the stat that I gave you before.

[Antonio Daniels]

Oh, about fourth quarter scoring or you

[Max Kellerman]

want to finish that thought? Because I know, I just enjoy it.

[Antonio Daniels]

To me, it's as the. As Jalen Brunson continues to ascend and he continues to advance, I am more and more impressed. And I know that's saying a lot, because when you do it in the first round is one thing. When you do in the second round is another thing. When you do in the Eastern Conference finals is another thing. But as you advance, the teams get better. The teams get better, the defense is tighter. You know, you have to deal with. And this afternoon I did four and a half hours of NBA Radio, and you know what the big discussion was?

[Max Kellerman]

What are you doing here right now?

[Antonio Daniels]

Because I could talk about basketball all

[Rich Paul]

day because he's sick.

[Antonio Daniels]

You know what the big discussion was? Jalen Brunson has never seen a defense like the spurs are going to throw at him. And you know what I just watched? I watched that young man go out there and basically give the San Antonio spurs death by a thousand paper cuts. And that's who he is, though.

[Max Kellerman]

So I want to give you two stats because I gave. I gave these off camera. I gave San Antonio before. There were two stats I've seen on reels. I apologize to the authors of these charts because I like them. I don't remember offhand, but I can recall them from memory what the points were.1 leaders in fourth quarter playoff points total in the NBA. So this means you would expect it to be people who. Whoever gets deepest in the playoffs, that best player should probably have the most fourth quarter playoff.

[Antonio Daniels]

Right?

[Max Kellerman]

You'd think that would be the correlation. In 2025. The answer was Jalen Brunson. Of everyone in the NBA, he had the most fourth quarter playoff points in 2024. Brunson in 2023, Brunson in 2022, Brunson in 2021. Brunson. It's like the Jimmy then. Then the other stat is this. It was a chart showing since 97. So this would be the 30th year. Okay. Because 2026 canceled the 30 years of playoff performers. On one axis was points per 36 minutes. Okay, so how much are you scoring? On the other axis is effective field goal percentage. How efficient are you? And there are a bunch of guys, all the great players you'd expect to see bunched in this area. Kobe, LeBron, all these guys, a bunch here. And there are two extreme outliers, and that was Jordan and Brunson. And Brunson was over Jordan. Now, pace of play is different now. I get it. But the point is this guy. It's like the Jimmy Butler thing that I always say, if the playoffs roll around and when the playoffs get here, we say, hey, you know what? In the playoffs, Jimmy Butler's a top five player. What we're really saying is Jimmy Butler's a top five player. You don't need the. If the playoffs are what it's about, let's do that.

[Rich Paul]

The best player in the league, then the way he's playing.

[Max Kellerman]

That's what I'm saying. We'd rather have tonight. Brunson or Wemby?

[Rich Paul]

Brunson. No, the way he's playing.

[Antonio Daniels]

You mean. Wait, wait, wait. You mean after the game or coming into the game?

[Rich Paul]

After the game. He said after the game.

[Antonio Daniels]

Well, basically you're saying, who was better tonight? Yes. Oh, definitely.

[Rich Paul]

Brunson.

[Max Kellerman]

Brunson's been the best player in every game. Playoffs.

[Rich Paul]

But here's two things, Max and Antonio, that I think people don't Understand about Brunson, because you gotta really look deeper into the, into the basketball play. Two things. One, pace. When a guy like him plays slow, fast. See, most guys play fast. He plays slow fast. When a guy plays slow, fast, it's very difficult for you to guard that because he has the hesitation, he has the craftiness and he has the shot making ability. Whether it's at the. He doesn't play above the rim, but guess what? He uses that glass. Glass and around like he might as well be above the rim the way he's playing. The other thing, he has short memory.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, most guys happened tonight. You saw it tonight.

[Rich Paul]

Most guys that play any sport, but definitely in the NBA, you're constantly thinking about what happened the last play, what happened two plays ago. The fact that this guy has mastered what short memory is. He's dangerous, man.

[Antonio Daniels]

The best players in this league. You're exactly right, Rich. Because the best players in this league always practice in game amnesia. That's one of the things that made Kobe Bryant so great.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Antonio Daniels]

He can miss four shots in a row and he will come back and shoot the fifth like the four previous didn't even happen. And that's what separates good, like good players from elite players. All time greats.

[Max Kellerman]

That's. I always said about Mariano Rivera, the greatest release pitch pitcher of all time. He could lose the World Series, but he is the greatest relief pitcher of all time. You look at the numbers, he could lose the World Series. And the next year it comes out like nothing happened, forgets it like that. And that's actually a lesson I think people can use in their lives. Something bad happens, can you, can you not dwell on it? And I've had, I've had experience even in my career where it's like something embarrassing would happen on tv. I remember once on, on hbo, one of my early broadcasts with Jim Lampley. And I had to do a locker room interview and I didn't ask a very obvious question. And Jim asked me what the answer was to the question I should have asked and I hadn't asked. I said I blew it on the air. I said that when something like that happens, you feel like you want it. You start sweating almost. It's so embarrassing. And I remember thinking in that moment, can I stop thinking about this?

[Antonio Daniels]

And I let it go.

[Max Kellerman]

But at least, at least I made the attempt. And I could feel it getting better because I was attempting. It's so hard in your life to do that, is my point. When these guys are playing with a championship on the line and it's late in the game and it's a one possession game and you miss a bunny, right? Or you miss an open.

[Antonio Daniels]

Social media doesn't help.

[Rich Paul]

And well, that makes even worse now.

[Max Kellerman]

But to forget about it five seconds later and come back and do the same.

[Rich Paul]

You have to have it, though. You have to have it. You don't have to have as much as Brunson has, but you damn sure can't have none as an athlete. You have to have some dosage of short memory. But with that being said, what does the spurs have to do to win game two? What did you see out there in terms of the adjustment to be made to win game two? Just for all of us? I'm just throwing it.

[Antonio Daniels]

I'll tell you the thing that was interesting about this game in particular. I feel like the Knicks have two guys that if you were going to tailor, make a guy to guard Victor Wembanyama. They have two of them.

[Rich Paul]

Mitch and Og and OG yeah, they

[Antonio Daniels]

have two of them. What has given the San Antonio spurs an advantage in every series, whether it's Portland, Minnesota or, or Oklahoma City, has been Wimby. Wimby has given them the advantage in every series because when he's rolling, you have to attach the guy and a half to him. Now that frees up champagne in the corner, Devin Fissell in the corner. When you have guys that are physical enough to bother Wimby and can slide their feet with him, so it doesn't really, he doesn't really gain an advantage where you actually have to double and tilt the floor toward him. Now everyone else can stay home. That makes their spurs offense a little more complicated than what it's been.

[Max Kellerman]

Mitch was establishing position like he has just a high basketball iq. He's establishing position ahead of time and making it difficult for doing his work early to doing his work early and making it difficult for Wembley. And you could anticipate, you say, oh, Wemby's going to have a bad possession here. And that's. That's all.

[Rich Paul]

But, but here's the thing. That's only if you go into Wemby for ISO perspective or for him to initiate the offense, if you screen the screener or if you put Mitchell Robinson in the side, pick and roll and make him have to think to get Wemby some room, then you give him a better opportunity because you just have to simplify it. I think early on in the first half they were simplifying it. De' Aon was getting there, spraying, and obviously Darren has to play Better and I think he will play better. But he was spraying the shots, was falling. Harper was doing his thing. Champagne was doing his thing. Like you said, when you, when you are stagnant against two guys, an OG who has the center of gravity.

[Max Kellerman]

Get underneath him.

[Rich Paul]

Get underneath him. But Mitchell Robinson, who has the length and agility, has the agility. That. Those are two things. But now you have to get him on the move. You have to get him on the move. And so I think what I see the adjustment and they did this, I talked about this in our show last time. They did it a little bit. He came out guarding Karl Anthony Towns. Then he started guarding Hart or somebody else, which I thought was good. I thought Carter Bryant could play. He didn't play as many minutes as

[Max Kellerman]

I thought he would. If you asked for an adjustment, I would say that makes be the number one adjustment.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Antonio Daniels]

That he plays more.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Because like these young. As I said, one of the things that I think the spurs could trouble the Knicks with is what I call them like puppies. Like Carter Bryant's like that. Stephan Cat Castle's definitely like that. They're big, exuberant young players who don't value possessions, who are sometimes might wind up in foul trouble because they're overly exuberant on defense. But they're big physical guys who can kind of shut down. They can, they can physically bother the other team. And Carter Bryant is like, they're like disruptors on.

[Antonio Daniels]

But the thing about Brunson though, which is different than sga. Yeah, completely different. Brunson seeks contact.

[Rich Paul]

He does.

[Antonio Daniels]

He seeks contact.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Antonio Daniels]

SGA is, is slippery and crafty with the ball and trying to get through it. John Brunson is taking the fight to you.

[Rich Paul]

Well, he has to because he doesn't have the athletic ability to over you. So he wants to seek the contact to draw space in between. He wants to bump you like that, get you. And he's. He's left handed. So he's so crafty with that ball. And he shoots the. I mean he, they had an extra possession where I thought this, this would really hurt the spurs. But one Brunson, he doesn't stop moving. So he was at the top of the key. They had an extra possession. Then you, you look up, he's in the corner and he hit that corner. 3. Right by the spurs bench.

[Max Kellerman]

Four in a row.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, right by the spurs bench. But again, short memory. Short memory. So you know, but that's Mike Brown though.

[Antonio Daniels]

And you know what's funny because in the NBA, when A team plays well, we praise the players. And when the team struggles, we criticize the coach.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Antonio Daniels]

One of the things that we've seen in the evolution of their offense is Mike Brown taking some of what he learned in Golden State with Steph Curry and Draymond Green. Right. And under Thibs. What we saw with Jalen Brunson was a lot of isocentric Jalen Brunson centric basketball. Pound ball.

[Gary Payton]

Pound.

[Rich Paul]

One on one could switch.

[Antonio Daniels]

And now with the evolution of their offense, Mike Brown has moved Jalen Brunson off that basketball.

[Max Kellerman]

It runs through Karl Anthony.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Antonio Daniels]

We talked about numerous guys are now kind of starting their offense, initiating their office. It doesn't have to be Jalen Brunson like it's been in your past. And now what you don't see, which is what we've seen in years past, is Jalen Brunson dying out.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. You know what I mean?

[Antonio Daniels]

When it's the end of the game a lot of time. He has that energy now because he hasn't had to go ISO mode for the previous.

[Max Kellerman]

Everyone stays when one guy is not monopolizing the ball. Everyone's hotter at the end of the

[Antonio Daniels]

game because everybody feels emboldened because they're touching it.

[Rich Paul]

OG has some big, big plays tonight down the stretch. He wasn't having a great game.

[Max Kellerman]

No, he wasn't.

[Rich Paul]

But then he had like a two minute stretch where he scored goals.

[Max Kellerman]

He was very aware of Wemby.

[Antonio Daniels]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Like the biggest impact I saw Wemby have on the game is specifically OG was very aware that Wemby was out there and it was affecting his offense a lot, I thought.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but this is like a boxing match, man. You're going to have to feel each round.

[Antonio Daniels]

Agreed.

[Rich Paul]

You know, you just have to. What you can't do is you can't get down too many rounds.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm just telling you about this.

[Rich Paul]

When I say can't get down two games.

[Max Kellerman]

Understands what the Knicks are right now?

[Rich Paul]

Oh, we understand it.

[Max Kellerman]

They are. I said it last time. You're feeding teams into a wood chipper right now. The spurs are so good in so many ways that they Only lost by 10, 10 points at home in a game that they were winning right at home. They only lost by 10. That's almost a win against the Knicks the way they've been playing recently. And even though I picked the spurs to get out of the west, looking back at the OKC series, like, what's their real Achilles heel other than their youth?

[Rich Paul]

And they don't shoot Shooting.

[Max Kellerman]

And if Jalen Williams was healthy, I think probably looking back, the Thunder beat him.

[Antonio Daniels]

I, I hate that conversation.

[Max Kellerman]

But, but it's.

[Antonio Daniels]

I hate that conversation.

[Max Kellerman]

What do you think?

[Antonio Daniels]

It doesn't matter because there is not a championship. There's not a. No, no. There's not a championship that has taken place where we can't look back and

[Max Kellerman]

say what if there's a difference? Okay, let me, let me tell you how I see it.

[Antonio Daniels]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

If one of your two best players isn't on the floor.

[Antonio Daniels]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

That's not just like, oh, they got someone was.

[Antonio Daniels]

Okay, so the same thing you just said about okc. Okay. The same thing you said about okc. Can Indiana Pacers make that same argument against the Thunder? Right.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait a minute. Yes, I would say if Hal. I wouldn't say for sure Indiana wins, but I would say if Halliburton was on the floor, maybe they win. The difference with this is it's a seven game series. Jalen Williams was not only never himself, but he also missed several games for sure. And yet it went seven games. So I don't bring that up to take credit away from the Spurs. I'm saying the lack of shooting could have ended them in the Western Conference finals.

[Antonio Daniels]

Well, is it the shooting?

[Max Kellerman]

Another very good.

[Rich Paul]

They shot it. They shot it. They sh. I mean this was a bad shooting night as a team, but they had a game like that, game three, they shot it bad against okc. So we know that's going to be inconsistent.

[Max Kellerman]

But, but against a team when. This is the reason I say Josh Hart could determine the story series if he gets hot. I know he's, I'm not saying he's not an excellent all around player, but he's the least reliable of the starters from distance.

[Rich Paul]

But you can say the same for Castle. If he gets hot, if he makes shots.

[Max Kellerman]

If he. Yes, Castle. Harper doesn't shoot it great from distance, but the Knicks. What I'm saying is it doesn't happen in a vacuum. You're being, you know, you're competing against the other guys where they have a little death lineup.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

When hearts show shot is dropping, they have a death lineup. Everyone can shoot. So the spacing is great. And, and the difference is they're, they're, they're, you know, you're counting by three over here and you're counting by three the hard way on the other end of the floor. I'm just saying it was, it didn't bite them against the Thunder, but the Thunder were down their second best scorer and Chet obviously wasn't ready. It could bite them.

[FanDuel Announcer]

Snoring Gasping during sleep? Feeling fatigued? Ask your doctor about Zeb bound to there's appetite the first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15mg injection. Zepbound contains Tirzepatide and should not be used with other Tirzepatide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-597 or visit zepbound.lilly.com snoring gasping during sleep? Feeling fatigued? Ask your doctor about Zepbound Tirzepatide, the first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15mg injection. Zepbound contains Tirzepatide and should not be used with other Tirzepatide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to them or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia Syndrome Type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop zebbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills, taking zetbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor, call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lilly.com well, I tell you one

[Rich Paul]

thing, the fans in there tonight, the Knicks, I've never seen it like that in San Antonio. The Knicks has been doing that everywhere they've gone.

[Antonio Daniels]

They travel, they travel, they travel.

[Rich Paul]

I didn't expect it here, though. And I heard, when I was leaving out, I heard one of the ushers, you know, I imagine she's been here 25 years, however long it's been here. She said she's never seen it like that. You have, that matters.

[Max Kellerman]

Three years of pent up frustration, a ton of Wall street money.

[Rich Paul]

No, and like, not just Wall street money. You have just money. Just money.

[Max Kellerman]

Every financial capital of the world, really. And then you have people who are looking at Knicks tickets going, I want to see the Knicks. But be cheaper for me to go to San Antonio.

[Rich Paul]

It's cheaper to pay 30 grand a ticket than 100 grand a ticket, right?

[Max Kellerman]

It's cheaper to go fly first class, stay at a nice hotel, have a little.

[Rich Paul]

Or guess what, they're not even staying. I so many of my friends that came from New York, they got planes, they're just going back tonight.

[Antonio Daniels]

That was a flex.

[Max Kellerman]

So many of his friends.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, that was a flex.

[Max Kellerman]

It's a whole different world.

[Gary Payton]

That was a flex.

[Antonio Daniels]

I'm not, I'm not mad at you. I'm not mad at you, but I'm not mad at you. But like, but like, just think of how that sounded, though. Like you make.

[Max Kellerman]

You know what, man?

[Antonio Daniels]

So many of my friends, so many of my friends are not even staying in the hotel. Max.

[Max Kellerman]

I thought they, I thought they were going back Hotel. You looked at me like, I'm staying.

[Rich Paul]

I'm.

[Max Kellerman]

You looked at me like, you bum. Get some rich friends. No, you're my rich friend.

[Rich Paul]

That wasn't the case.

[Max Kellerman]

But.

[Rich Paul]

But I'm looking at these guys, they're like, no, we're going back tonight. I'm like, really? They're like, yeah. I'm like, okay, yeah, Two and a half. I'm staying.

[Max Kellerman]

Three.

[Rich Paul]

It's a little bit more than that.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, three and a half.

[Rich Paul]

Two and a half.

[Max Kellerman]

Two and a half from la.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Almost going all the way up.

[Max Kellerman]

It's almost a midway point. Not quite.

[Rich Paul]

You can at least stay tonight and fly back in the morning.

[Antonio Daniels]

Okay, so wait, can we, can we go back to Max's? Can you, can you foresee? Okay, the thing is, one after Game 1 of every playoff series, there's always an overreaction one way or another. Can you see? Do you think there's any possibility whatsoever that the Knicks can sweep the Spurs? Sweep them?

[Rich Paul]

I can't say after game one.

[Antonio Daniels]

Agreed.

[Rich Paul]

I can't say after game one.

[Max Kellerman]

I think. Oh, no, I don't. I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen. I'm saying there's a danger of it.

[Rich Paul]

No, if they. Now what you can say is I

[Max Kellerman]

do think this was a must win game.

[Rich Paul]

If they go down. If they go down. If they go down. Oh, two different.

[Antonio Daniels]

We can have that conversation. Yeah, sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Game two for me, in every season, in every series ever is the game. Because in a hunt, I know people say game five or whatever, but what you could say with accuracy is in every series ever after game two, it's either any one series or someone's in a deep hole.

[Antonio Daniels]

And that's why I can't get on board with saying after game one that it was a must win for either team.

[Max Kellerman]

I get it. I'm just saying that because the Knicks have been so. The Knicks will, if they win the championship, will be talked about. With the 2014 Spurs. People will say, oh my God, do you remember that team? They played like a team. They were like unstoppable. Even if they, even if they didn't have Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan or LeBron James.

[Rich Paul]

Why the 2014 Spurs?

[Antonio Daniels]

2014 spurs were good, but they didn't have like that.

[Max Kellerman]

Tim Duncan's an all time great, but it wasn't like they didn't have that star.

[Rich Paul]

Kauai was ascending. Kawhi was.

[Max Kellerman]

And they just played like a team. They played beautiful game that they played together.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm just Saying, like, when you're facing a team like that, well rested, the whole thing, and you're at home and you and you. And it's a game that was so winnable for you. And.

[Rich Paul]

Well, we came in this, but we came in, Max, talking about how the Knicks were playing so good that they actually should be favored no matter who won.

[Antonio Daniels]

Remember, we talked. That's very true.

[Rich Paul]

Way they were playing. We said, no matter who wins, the Knicks should be favored.

[Max Kellerman]

Because, listen, if anyone thinks I'm like, I grew up a Knicks fan, I'm favorite. I'm just telling you, there's nothing.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm not saying that. That's part of it.

[Max Kellerman]

Because I've been dogging him for.

[Rich Paul]

Jacobe's signature on his text says Nixon4.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Like he's a fan.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, it's clear. I'm telling. I'm telling you this because. Because Jacoby just gave me this.

[Rich Paul]

I got to deal with Shalam. I got to deal with all these guys.

[Max Kellerman]

Who's really happy. You know who else you're going to have to deal with? Dean. Oh, he was so. He was so happy.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, for me, I always said the NBA is always better when the Knicks, the Bulls, the Lakers, the Celtics are doing great. It's just something about it, especially the Knicks. It's just something about the electricity, etc. But at the same time, there has been eight different champions in the last eight years. So the parody is also great for our league. Emerging stars, Wimby, you know, young team being, I don't know, the average age of the Spurs. They're young, being in the finals, and there's so many great storylines here, which is. Which is. Which is great for all of us as we do our job. This is like my third job, but as I do, my first job is great. But I'm not ready to say that there's going to be a sweet. Max, I think it's too early.

[Max Kellerman]

I think there's a dare. I thought this game was so critical for them to win, the spurs to win. I think there's a danger of that happening. But I want to say something about the Knicks right now.

[Rich Paul]

You've only been saying something about the Knicks since I was.

[Max Kellerman]

I picked the spurs to win the whole thing. Middle of the year, the spurs, if Wemby stays healthy, if there was no Wemby on the Spurs. The spurs are set up for 10 years of a great run. I don't know if there'd be a dynasty without them, but with Castle and Harper, they're going to be very tough for a very long time. They got a good young coach. They, they got good players everywhere you look. They're a great organization. They'll be fine with Wemby. Wemby stays healthy. Spurs are running the NBA. So this is not like some oh, feel sorry for the spurs. As it relates to the Knicks. I think there's this sense that they caught lightning in a bottle. They got to do it now or it's never going to happen. Not only do I think the Knicks should be at this point favored to win this championship, I don't think that they're like going to be at some dominant dynasty but I would say there's a good chance that this crew they

[Rich Paul]

can back here next year.

[Max Kellerman]

Like not maybe not next year but in the next, the next three or four years that they could do what the Knicks did in the late 60s, early 70s, which is win two in a four year period. Because what, what they have now is something that Patrick, you never had. But that old Knicks team, did they have the, they have the great backcourt player and the great front court play balance. Yes. They didn't. Patrick E. Was. They did not have any great backcourt.

[Rich Paul]

Well, they didn't have a three. That team. They didn't have a small four.

[Max Kellerman]

They didn't have a one or a two. Not an all star.

[Rich Paul]

No they didn't.

[Max Kellerman]

And, and, and Willis.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no. We're talking about before that. Alan Houston was.

[Antonio Daniels]

Alan Terrell sp don't count.

[Max Kellerman]

They do. They were. They were. But by then Ewing was on the downside.

[Rich Paul]

He said when you was in his prime. But here we have, we have two black head coaches in the Finals which we didn't talk about that at all.

[Max Kellerman]

But is that unusual in the NBA? It didn't even occur to me. I think of the NFL like that. Yeah, I guess so.

[Rich Paul]

I mean I think it's.

[Max Kellerman]

But I think in the NFL that's like noticeable.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

In the NBA it didn't even occur to me.

[Rich Paul]

It has. I don't think it's happened.

[Max Kellerman]

That is Steve Kerr. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

He's been there a lot. But even when Toronto went Riley, Phil

[Antonio Daniels]

Jackson and Steve, Steve Kerr Grandpapa pitch.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

When Toronto went in with. I think it's the first time ever.

[Antonio Daniels]

I, I don't know and I don't want. I don't want to. I don't want to.

[Rich Paul]

I think, I think.

[Antonio Daniels]

I'm not sure.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not sure.

[Antonio Daniels]

I'm not sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Jones and who Bill Russell.

[Rich Paul]

They've been on the same team. I'm not coaching two different eras. Yeah, no, no, Lenny Wilkins.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, Lenny Wilkins never made it.

[Rich Paul]

Right, but this, this is what I'm saying.

[Sponsor Announcer]

But.

[Rich Paul]

But the point I was trying to make is.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, it's because. Because black players, Coaches lack the buoyancy, apparently.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm saying you don't get that. But the younger. I remember being here in 2007, Mike Brown was in the same situation that Mitch Johnson is in now. He was the young coach. He was just coaching the Cavs.

[Max Kellerman]

He.

[Rich Paul]

He had never been a head coach before, and he found himself in the Finals. I think Mike Brown today going through all he's gone through as a head coach and going to the finals and winning. What he won twice as an assistant coach.

[Antonio Daniels]

Yeah, two and two in Golden State.

[Rich Paul]

I think he won twice as assistant coach. I know he won in 22 as assistant coach for Golden State. And wasn't he on the. Wasn't on the spur, not as assistant.

[Antonio Daniels]

Because he was. He was. Yeah, he was here. And he was here in San Antonio as well. Yeah, he was my. He was my coach here in San Antonio.

[Rich Paul]

Right. So we're looking at this now. He's become the elder statesman. And when you talk about adjustments and things like that, he goes from.

[Max Kellerman]

In a way, not exactly a generic coach because he's been associated with a lot of winners and LeBron early in LeBron's career and everything. But he goes from kind of like a good, solid, but retread NBA coach. This season puts him into a different category. Like, for the rest of his career, he's gonna be seen in a different category.

[Antonio Daniels]

You being a Knicks fan, can you ever. Can you think of a New York Knicks coach that's starting off their tenure? They started off with as much pressure as Mike Brown was under,

[Max Kellerman]

maybe Pat Riley, because Pat Riley, basically, Rick Pitino got him to a certain level. They had Patrick Ewing, they had, like, a lot. And that's why Riley takes a job. He wants his big man, right? When Pat. And he's Pat Riley, you. You show up, you got to win a championship. Especially since Pitino already got him making playoff runs. I would say Pat Riley probably faced the most pressure of a Knicks coach.

[Antonio Daniels]

I couldn't be happier for Mike, I can tell you that. I could not be happier for him, because I do. All throughout the course of this year, all you heard was, well, you know what? If he doesn't reach this, he's probably going to get fired. And here they are.

[Rich Paul]

Right?

[Antonio Daniels]

And obviously it's just one Game in the NBA Finals calling for the men

[Rich Paul]

to get fired in the middle of the season.

[Antonio Daniels]

Exactly.

[Max Kellerman]

He. And it's also. Sometimes a guy's imprint is so obvious on a team. Like Tibbs can get you to respectability. He can make you. He can be a second round playoff team. But they seem to hit a wall right there. Tibbs teams, because they're playing very intensely on both sides of the floor and, and yes, certain minutes are the same, but the intensity was more to me during the season building toward like with an eye toward this time of year. And then he unlocked the offense with Cat.

[Antonio Daniels]

Mike, can you ever think of a. A team, right? And you guys have watched a ton of basketball. Can you ever think of a team that has actually gone throughout the course of the regular season and midway through the playoffs completely changed their identity?

[Rich Paul]

One time that I, that I was a part of is when David Blatt was fired in January after coming back, after going to the finals. Ty came in and they, and they, they won it.

[Antonio Daniels]

No, but I mean when Ty came in, he came in in January.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Antonio Daniels]

Right. So he had January, February or you send the team. Yeah, January, February, March, April is when the playoffs start. Yes, in April. Just be a completely different offensive team than they were. What we've seen with the Knicks is what they've done all year. When they got to Game 3 against the Atlanta Hawks. I don't know if it was a conversation that was. Had their identity offensively completely rhythm.

[Max Kellerman]

It's a great point. Or maybe Mike Brown said, okay, if we want to win this thing, we're going to have to make this adjustment. Right. That's really. Because it was in the playoffs that they really started using Cat. More like a Jokic type.

[Antonio Daniels]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Well. Well, they ended the season pretty strong too.

[Max Kellerman]

They did.

[Rich Paul]

They, they. I know what you're saying. I would say the only other time was that obviously that I was a part of was when the Heat kind of got off. Think they was like 8 and 7 and it was little rocky and then they went, they went on the run. They didn't win it.

[Max Kellerman]

That Lakers. At a certain point early on, Pat

[Rich Paul]

had to come down from upstairs with the Heat. He had to come down and coach and then they wouldn't want it. So that.

[Max Kellerman]

But you're saying specifically in the playoffs. Playoffs. There's a moment in the playoffs.

[Antonio Daniels]

Go back and look at corner. No question. Go back and look at the New York Knicks, right In game one and game two versus Atlanta. Go back and look at the New York knicks. The last 10 games of the season and how their offense was ran to how it has looked the past 12 or 13 games in the playoffs.

[Max Kellerman]

It's like a sleeping giant.

[Antonio Daniels]

No question about it. It's a completely different offense.

[Max Kellerman]

So that's why, like his. His impact is so apparent, because there was a previous coach, a previous way of playing. Takes about a season to figure out how to unlock.

[Antonio Daniels]

Unlock it.

[Max Kellerman]

He does it. And right in the nick of time, you can see his influence. And now they're unstoppable. That's why this season. This season is Mike Brown's hall of Fame. See, he's going to go to the hall of fame.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, 100%. 100%. But. But what I was going to say about Mike Brown, there's no. Like, Mike Brown works his ass off. I know that for a fact. And he approaches the coaching, whether he's assistant as a teammate, if he's assistant, he's not trying to stab your back or kick your back out or anything. He's doing what he's been asked to do and being a great assistant as a head coach. Look, he's had, like I said, he went to the Finals, then he's coached the Lakers twice. Came back to Cleveland, went to Sacramento, did a hell of a job there, turned him around for two years, and now he's here. So like you said, if Mike was to win it, you have to be happy for him. 100%. Yeah. So. So before we let Antonio get out

[Max Kellerman]

of here another two hours.

[Rich Paul]

So it's not. Yes. And I promise Ms. Daniels was not doing that. See, you know, because I'm gonna want to go over to the house, Max, and chill and get me some grub. You're not doing that. You're in and out.

[Max Kellerman]

They're. They're gonna go back and just talk about basketball anyway.

[Rich Paul]

That's fine.

[Antonio Daniels]

We'll talk about tennis.

[Max Kellerman]

Tennis.

[Rich Paul]

We'll talk about tips for the French Open. Yes, well. So what's your prediction for game two?

[Antonio Daniels]

I got San Antonio win a game, too.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Antonio Daniels]

I do. Because like you said, I think de' Aaron Fox would be better. I think Stephon Castle would be better. But this, to me, I think this series in particular, where is. Where we'll see the growth and the evolution of Mitch Johnson. Because now we're no longer playing checkers. This is chess now. Right.

[Rich Paul]

You know what you're going to think about Mitch? He has a. He's like. He has. He has great aunts and uncles, no question, because he could just always pop his hair long as Pop can still. As long as Pop is still in it.

[Antonio Daniels]

Oh, he listen, we watched the game tonight in Pop Sweet with him.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Antonio Daniels]

And I asked him tonight, I said, do you miss it? And he said, you have no idea

[Rich Paul]

how much this is what I say.

[Antonio Daniels]

I wish I was down there right now. So you best believe when these games are over, Pops not just going home and going to sleep. There are conversations that will be had, adjustments that he sees.

[Rich Paul]

But you got to love that, even

[Max Kellerman]

if they wind up losing, like, so Emanuel Stewart, who's one of the greatest boxing trainers of all time, I worked with him on tv, and he would tell you he was a great trainer when he had time. Tommy Hearns, when Tommy Hearns fought Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler, right. But he made certain mistakes, right, that he learned from and then became just like the fighters learned. He learns, he became, you know, he's the greatest trainer ever by the time he was done. And that's what happens the first time you coach in the finals is like the first time you play in a final.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Like anything.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

You're gonna, you're gonna do certain things that with more experience and wisdom, you look back and you're like, okay, I learned this from the end. But that's what I mean. The spurs are so set up, win or lose this finals. I can't think of a more perfect story.

[Rich Paul]

There's no real loser here for somebody has to win a championship.

[Max Kellerman]

There's a young coach taking his lumps, learning on the way. Wemby, 22 years old. He's got crime partners like Castle and Harper. He's got a vet like Fox. He's got, by the way, you bring up Bryant and this one and that, like, they got so many and the

[Rich Paul]

ability to get better this summer.

[Antonio Daniels]

This is, here's the thing.

[Max Kellerman]

If they, if they, this is the worst.

[Antonio Daniels]

They're going to this what I, this is the worst to San Antonio. This is the worst. Victor, when Victor will be this year.

[Max Kellerman]

They could with Victor Weam, but stays healthy. You w up with seven chips.

[Antonio Daniels]

But here's the thing, like, and that sounds great because if you go back a few years ago, remember what we were saying about Boston.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Remember, we've been saying that about a number of teams.

[Antonio Daniels]

And then, and then you go back. Remember we were saying about Denver. Remember we were saying about Denver City.

[Max Kellerman]

This is different.

[Antonio Daniels]

I, I, it's always different.

[Max Kellerman]

No, but the difference is there's not been a guy like Wendy, no question about it, not been that.

[Antonio Daniels]

But the thing is Max, there's the thing. I, I, I can tell you for me and I'll get out of here after this. We went to the, the NBA Finals in 1999. Played the same New York Knicks team. Right. And this is where the torches pass from David Robinson to Tim Duncan.

[Gary Payton]

Sure.

[Antonio Daniels]

After we win the championship that next year. We were actually better in 2000, but it did. We had a better team in 2000. You know what happened right before the playoffs? Tim Duncan got hurt. He was out. And then he got cleared to come back and play. And Pop told him at that time, nope, I'm not putting you back out there. Right. Thinking long term, like Gregg Popovich does. I never made it back again. That is my only time ever getting to the NBA Finals. What I have learned is not to take that for granted. And it's easy to sit here and say like, oh, you know what this team is going to, man?

[Rich Paul]

Things. The league is too good now.

[Antonio Daniels]

Yes. Things happen.

[Max Kellerman]

However you bring that up, that's interesting. That's Duncan's first chip for sure. Part of the reason he won it is because, and no one talks about this enough, David Robinson, who, and I said this last show, who was a monster, monster, said, we're going to run

[Antonio Daniels]

our offense through this rookie just like Dwyane Wade. But that's just like Dwyane Wade did with LeBron James.

[Max Kellerman]

It was the right organization for sure. Right. So when you have that and a player like Tim Duncan, you didn't get back. Duncan won five for sure. And as great as Duncan was when I'm just potential. Wemby got more potential.

[Antonio Daniels]

Oh, for sure. He has the potential to be the Duncan got five.

[Rich Paul]

Well, game two will allow us to see the potential.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Antonio Daniels]

Agree.

[Rich Paul]

Thank you.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. Yes. We need to get you home.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, we'll get you home. Appreciate you as always.

[Antonio Daniels]

I'm gonna go watch the French Open first thing in the morning.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Antonio Daniels]

Appreciate it.

[Rich Paul]

Fellas.

[Max Kellerman]

This won't be the last time you see Antonio Daniels.

[Rich Paul]

No, no.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, we're gonna, we might

[Rich Paul]

call him tomorrow at 9 in the morning.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, like not just tomorrow, but for like years. We're gonna be coming back here to see this.

[Rich Paul]

That's true.

[Max Kellerman]

In the finals. That is true.

[Antonio Daniels]

That's fair.

[Max Kellerman]

A lot of time. And Antonio, we'll bring them on for

[Rich Paul]

next year during this, during the regular season.

[Max Kellerman]

But maybe we'll start tomorrow.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, let's start with that.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Now, this episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and Some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods Market. Peach apricot rose Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch. As is their trending Mango yuzu cheese Chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 Strawberry Pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to you by Viori. When it comes to clothes that score high in both comfort and style, Viori is my mvp. Sunday performance joggers. Oh, yeah. They have the perfect I could watch a game and then go out to dinner vibe. And the meta pant. That's my number one I need to look like I tried option. Get 20% off your first purchase at viori.com simmons and discover the versatility of Vuori clothing exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

[Max Kellerman]

And look who's here. The all time greats, the ladies and gentlemen.

[Rich Paul]

Did you have a pair of Gary Payton's? I had the gloves.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't think I did tell you the truth.

[Gary Payton]

Well, we got to get you a pair. They coming back out on July 31st. Oh, what they are Nike bringing them back out? Yeah. So we got five.

[Rich Paul]

Which ones, though?

[Gary Payton]

The zip downs, the zip around when you go down with the monkey paws. So we got the black, the white, the white leather that I wore. Then we got the. The royal blue and then we got the. I had to let them bring out out the Miami Heat, the red and black championship.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

So. So it's gonna be good. It's gonna be a nice little thing

[Max Kellerman]

about Gary Payton was like, sometimes who your favorite players are says something about you. Right? Like, I don't. I'm not gonna say anything bad about it. If your favorite player is a certain guy, people be like, that's your favorite player. But. But if Gary Payton was your. For one of your favorite players, that said something good about you, right? Like, that was right, you know, that

[Rich Paul]

said you wanted to talk.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure. Yeah, for sure.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

Well, he initially went to God. I, like raised him, man. Before everybody knew him as Rich, the big time agent and stuff. He was. That was my guys.

[Max Kellerman]

You knew him since he was poor, Paul.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Let me tell you. Let me tell you what happened. We go to Vegas. So GP like, man come by the house. Cool. Now, you know, I'm listening to E40. He talking about him. Merton Hanks. Or GP hanging.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, Come on.

[Rich Paul]

So I'm already visualizing this, so now I'm about to make it happen in real life. So we get to GP's house. He got to join Max. He got to the real Joe. I was 20, maybe, but, you know, he got to. And we rapping. So, you know, when I get out, I'm getting around this. He instantly like an uncle to me.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You know, one of my uncles. So we rapping. He like, come on, let's go outside in the back. We only in the front of the house. We get to the back. Oh, man, open up. You got to slide. And, you know, I'm not a big swimmer, but I just like the. The way it looks. So we chop it up, we shoot, and pool hanging out.

[Max Kellerman]

It's great. Is yours pool in the shape of a glove? Like, you know,

[Gary Payton]

that'll be hard to

[Rich Paul]

get it in the glove.

[Max Kellerman]

Ozzy Smith has something like I think I saw this week in baseball. The glove should have something in the shape of a glove.

[Gary Payton]

No, you gotta have that in the house. You know, you have the glass things and things like that, not the pool. That's gonna be hard to cover it up.

[FanDuel Announcer]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

You know what I'm saying? You don't want all the leaves in there. You want the COVID on that thing.

[Rich Paul]

But it was great. So you know what I do? I. I go home. Y' all would never believe I'm kicking it with gp, man. Yeah, right?

[Antonio Daniels]

I'm like, okay, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

No one could tell you. Yeah, no one could tell you shit.

[Rich Paul]

But it was great. No, so. So when I saw gp, I said, come on, let's do the show. He said instantly. Said, no problem. So we hop on and I told

[Max Kellerman]

him, what is it about? Let's get right into the basketball. There's some guys who. When the lights, they're. They're. Anytime I see a guy like Brunson, sh. Short, slow, no hops, Right? But somehow he's going to get a baller and a baller, and the bigger the moment and the more pressurized the situation, Everyone knows where the ball's going. Doesn't matter. How does he do it?

[Gary Payton]

Well, I think that it's just built in him. He's that type of basketball. When I seen him at Villanova, I really didn't think he was going to be that type of basketball player. But different people perform different ways and approach, you know what I'm saying? A college player I could take. Jalen Brown is the same segue. I didn't think he was no good in Cal, but you see what he comes and do. But I think Bronson has made a skill and an art of what he does. He's a mid range player and he gets there and he takes his time. He uses his big body and he scores it at a high rate. And when you can score at a high rate, you got a confident level that he has. It's, it's really amazing. And that's what he does. He knows if he gets the basketball and he's getting guarded one on one he can score and that's what he does. He was struggling all, all tonight. He was struggling.

[Max Kellerman]

He was, he was struggling back.

[Gary Payton]

He was struggling and then all of a sudden they give him just that little light and then you make one or two and then the rim looked like this.

[Rich Paul]

It looked like he was 5:15.

[Max Kellerman]

But you know what's crazy?

[Gary Payton]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you know what's crazy? And I had, I missed a four legged parlay because I took the under on Brunson, right. And I'm looking good for half of that game. And then comes the fourth quarter and it's, you know what's going to happen already?

[Gary Payton]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I start, you know, I'm thinking like, oh, there goes the parlay.

[Antonio Daniels]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

And that's what happened. He winds up with 30, you know what I'm saying? All the fans and when I was there in the stands, they were like, we're a fourth quarter team. Yes you are. And I think San Antonio let it get away from them in that third quarter. At the end of the third quarter when they up 14 and then they're struggling. I think they should attack the basket and get up a little by like 20 or 25 and then you have a game, you have a cushion. But now you go into the fourth quarter tied up. Anything can happen. And then that's when that team starts to get out. I think they got all rebounding, second chance points.

[Rich Paul]

Second chance points.

[Max Kellerman]

Although I thought, I thought the Spurs, I thought the spurs did a good job for a lot of the game.

[Gary Payton]

Not in the third quarter.

[Max Kellerman]

That's how the third quarter, that's how

[Gary Payton]

they got back and that's what it did. That was a downfall. It only takes that little time and that one quarter and that one quarter when Towns dominated in the inside. You try to get a six foot guy on a big guy like that and he gets rebounds and rebounds at the rebounds and that's what happened. And the momentum shifted to the.

[Max Kellerman]

What about the way Harper started that game like his first finals game. He's the guy's about 12 years old and, and he goes for 10 points as soon as you can blink.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And he's just scratching the surf, can't shoot yet.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, right. But I think he should have played a little bit more. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Downstream.

[Gary Payton]

I think down the stretch you should play, play a guy. That's it. You have. Remember at halftime he was like 14 and with six, seven rebounds. Yeah, you gotta let a guy like that play in a kid. He had his confidence. They, they did their routine, they stuck with the people and it didn't happen tonight. And that's what happens. I think you stick at this time, you stick with the guys that's hot that has got the game going and that's what I would have stuck with. I would have stuck with Harper and I would have let him play a little bit more and see what happens.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think to take away from tonight is value and possessions. Like you said, being up 13 at some point it's like okay, well do we call a timeout, regroup and then have a re messaging in the huddle saying listen, we got a 13 point cushion. I'm not saying take your foot off the gas but let's take, if we're going to take shots, let's take great shots.

[Max Kellerman]

You know who that's going to be on? That's going to be on.

[Rich Paul]

You're going to be on Fox.

[Max Kellerman]

It's going to be on Fox.

[Antonio Daniels]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Because that the one of the, this spurs team, if they stay healthy goods for a long, long time but right now they don't value possessions. That's part, that's their strength and their weakness.

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's turned around.

[Max Kellerman]

They'll get after it. They'll, they'll play defense hard. But, and, and as you said, they have a short memory but they don't value possessions. And throughout the whole playoffs and y'

[Gary Payton]

all hit it on the nose and then you get castles start turning the basketball over at the wrong time. They don't value possessions because what Rich said is, is that I got a 13 point lead now. Now I don't come down and shoot four or five threes and get them back in the game. I go, I run my offense, I run my defense, I go to Wimby, I go to these guys, I attack the basket and I put pressure on the Knicks and that's what they didn't do and that's what happened and that's why they got an L down because they didn't do it.

[Max Kellerman]

I want to ask you something about. Wemby because this is every old school player, right? When you see a tall guy, you're like, oh, they should, they should get in the post more. But in, and in Wemby's case, there are a couple ways to look at it. He's. He's not the. He like, he's a little light in the ass, as they would say. And, and so he could be moved off his spot. And he's also super tall, as Rich has pointed out. The other guys with lower centers of gravity. I get all that. I get it. And also, why not count by three when you could shoot like Wemby. I get it. How does he get some kind of post game? He doesn't seem to be able to post up really anyone at this point in his career. And I imagine if he had that

[Gary Payton]

game over and it would be. But that means strength, you know, Rich, you got to get in the weight room, you got to get them legs strong. And then you gotta learn how to get down low, down there. Because what he does now is, is when they said screens, what does he all automatically do? He run all the way out and then gets the ball so he can face up because he's not comfortable yet posting up a player. So what would Shaq do? Shaq would come over there and he'll stand.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. And he also duck in. Yeah, See, I would like to see Wimby duck in a little bit.

[Max Kellerman]

Shaq was big boneded though.

[Rich Paul]

Even if he's not pulling posting, if he can just flash, flash to the middle of the paint, then you have

[Max Kellerman]

a little jump has the same effect. Basically you get closer to the basket

[Rich Paul]

and like GP saying, if you up 13 or 14 now, I'm going to side pick and roll you to death. I'm going to side pick and roll you. I'm going to hit you with that pocket pass and I need that low man to rotate over. Now that champagne in that corner like he was in the first quarter when they got the lead. And if we lose the game because we were getting wide open, catch and shoots and we just went cold.

[Max Kellerman]

You live with that.

[Rich Paul]

That's something different. But, but early shot clock threes and we up. This is the finals. So at this point, all that has to be out of our system by the time we get here. And it's just a learning experience. I think they'll play a much better game game too. When you look back at the film, them second possessions and those things, this

[Gary Payton]

is, this is somebody who knows basketball. He knows basketball. He's been around Basketball. We go into the pick and roll. We roll a man down. And then they're going to have to start rotating over. And then when they rotate over, what's going to happen? You see that? Guys wide open. So then we can kick, kick, kick. And like I said, like you said, Rich, I'll live with losing a basketball game like that. I can't live with losing the basketball game. I know. I'm 13. They got a struggling team. They're missing shots, too. And then we come down with four or five possessions where we can score 10 points and they score nothing. We go up 23 and then they shoot threes. And then all of a sudden they come back and they give confidence to the Knicks and the kid. Knicks is just. They just rolled them down. They just rolled them down, rolled them down. And then they wound up.

[Max Kellerman]

I want to go back to Wemby for a second because what you said is like, of course. And it's not at his size. He can't try to put all the muscle on at once either. Some of it's just his man bones. That's going to happen in the next couple years, little by little. 22. And they might steal a chip now. Right. Like you don't. They might steal them before they're even ready. And then.

[Gary Payton]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

But I was thinking about a perfect storm, and I don't think any player ever has been set up better than Wemby ever. Like, I think about MJ coming into the league. He wasn't the first overall pick. They didn't have Scotty Pippen yet. He wasn't like. It wasn't like a culture of success on the Bulls. I think about LeBron. He came into. They wouldn't even trade J.J. hickson for Amari Stoudemire. Like, they weren't going to give him a shot. Wemby comes in the league as a baby onto a Popovich franchise with. With this. With the tradition of big men, with the players who come back and help out with. With this. Now he's got Castle and he's got Harper, and they got these young players around his age who are tough both sides of the floor. They have a veteran like Fox in there, like Barnes.

[Gary Payton]

You don't forget Barnes.

[Max Kellerman]

No question. Right?

[Gary Payton]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Championship pedigree.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Has there ever been a player set up better to be. To like, be the goat one day if he could stay healthy than Wemby? So he don't even have the post game yet. He's already killing the game.

[Rich Paul]

Well.

[Gary Payton]

Well, we gotta go Back to LeBron LeBron was set up too though.

[Max Kellerman]

He didn't.

[Gary Payton]

He had a Cleveland team that was pretty good and they did it and gave it to him. But when me. What happens now is. Is that when Pop came in there, he set it up. Pop them was struggling when they, when they got the number one pick now.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

So. But then they had to build it. Then they had to build it up and then look what your luck come up. You start driving, drafting these guys.

[Rich Paul]

They hit three times.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, they hit three times. So that's luck too.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not saying it was all skill. I. I know. Of course luck plays in. I'm saying LeBron seven years in, had to leave because it wasn't set up right. MJ had to wait for them to draft Pippen, scrimmage against him, develop him

[Gary Payton]

and get beat up. He got beat up a lot.

[Max Kellerman]

All this stuff. No, like Kareem goes to you saying

[Rich Paul]

Wimy came into it a great culture championship. Culture championship coach front office that understands that. Okay. We are rebuilding this thing back up the patience as an organization to take the time understanding they have to develop him. We the talent evaluating. They have one of the best talent evaluators with the ping pong. Good luck with the ping pong.

[FanDuel Announcer]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

But Rich, the lead is different too though.

[Rich Paul]

It is the least.

[Gary Payton]

Not as tough. I don't. I'm going to tell you the truth. Not as tough as when me and LeBron that was in the league because we had a lot of teams that was really, really more dominant, especially in my era.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I mean look at that Pistons team,

[Gary Payton]

they were dominant. We had a Sacramento team that was dominant.

[Max Kellerman]

San Antonio, they're passing it around more.

[Gary Payton]

Houston, Houston was dominant. We, we had a lot of more.

[Max Kellerman]

That sets them up more.

[Gary Payton]

More.

[Max Kellerman]

He doesn't even have to where he's not playing.

[Antonio Daniels]

Only one.

[Max Kellerman]

I agree. Celtics is the Magic Johnson.

[Rich Paul]

Magic.

[Gary Payton]

Magic came into the Lakers.

[Rich Paul]

Magic came into Worthy Call.

[Gary Payton]

He had Worthy.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, he had Kareem. And then they get worthy.

[Gary Payton]

Okay, that was.

[Max Kellerman]

So that's the answer. The answer is but, but, but, but what about.

[Rich Paul]

I was gonna say the next Bird,

[Max Kellerman]

but here's the difference. As great as Magic and Bird were, they even they did not come into the league with the two guys who came into or three guys came into the league with this level of fanfare. Kareem, then LeBron, now Wemby where it was like this guy. If it go. If it falls right for him, forget it. Right. And I'm just saying of those guys, you're right. Magic is set up and set up, but not like of LeBron of that level prospect, kind of.

[Gary Payton]

And. And. And you. True. And that's true. Three of us, we say three or four guys that really did it. Three or four guys that really did it. And now you got to think about it. And he's doing it.

[Max Kellerman]

Young.

[Gary Payton]

Young. The other ones didn't, you know, really get into that championship.

[Rich Paul]

Ped even getting there. You get there. You get there.

[Gary Payton]

What this is. What is his third year?

[Rich Paul]

Third year.

[Gary Payton]

Third year.

[Rich Paul]

So Brian got there at 22. Yeah, no, 7. But they were so undermanned and didn't get back until 2010 with 2011. 2010. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

LeBron wasn't set up. LeBron had to drag that. That was not a finals.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, yeah, but he. But he was playing out of his mind, too.

[Max Kellerman]

That's what I'm saying. And he was 29 straight. He wasn't screwed up. He didn't have a. Guys his own age like Harper and.

[Gary Payton]

And yeah, because they all. Y', all, they're all. This team is young.

[Rich Paul]

They're gonna grow really young.

[Max Kellerman]

That's what I'm saying.

[Rich Paul]

Scary. So, GP So what do you think? Cause now they have to win game two. Coming into game two, obviously, you've been in so many playoff series. You've been in the finals. You've been in the finals on three different teams. As someone with your experience coming into a game two after being down and. And losing the game, that when you watch the film, you should have won. The film won't tell you you should have won this game.

[Gary Payton]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

There's two ways you can go with that. From a mental perspective. You're going to either go down or you're going to go up. In terms of what my morale is. Right. And it takes being a young team, not having an experience and saying ourselves, okay, guys, we can still do this. Now they show resilience against OKC winning game one, losing game two, losing game three, and then come back to tie the series, and then boom, boom. Did a little.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, right.

[Rich Paul]

So. But coming into game two, what's the setup? What's the mindset? What you know, as a team and as an individual, as one of the star guys on the team tomorrow, what

[Gary Payton]

they have to do is go and watch film. And what made them a. Mistakes. What mistakes did they make? I think I'd be more aggressive. I think I don't shoot as many jump shots. I put pressure on them, and then what I do is, if it was me, I would basically double bronson. I'll get the ball out of his hands and then I'll make it hard for him and I'll make the other people beat us. As you look at Bridges and hard didn't do too much. You know, Towns was really the only one that really got a good game. So I make.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, OG too.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, OG and he didn't do anything.

[Rich Paul]

The last one he said, I really like. Because if I'm looking at it from a Spurs perspective, the difference between the Thunder and the Knicks is the Thunder had multiple ball handling, playmaking guys, especially when A.J. mitchell was on the floor. Yes. So now when they was doubling Shay, they made him pay because now he's started to. A.J. mitchell and A.J.

[Max Kellerman]

that's not Josh. Really.

[Gary Payton]

That's not.

[Max Kellerman]

Josh can do it, but it's not

[Gary Payton]

OG But I'll let him do that. I'll let, I'll let him. I'll live with them. Beat me if they can beat me and get score 30 and 40. I'll live with that.

[Rich Paul]

Now, now, when do you, now when do you throw that though? Do you, do you, do you, do you throw it in the fourth quarter?

[Antonio Daniels]

Do you.

[Rich Paul]

Wait, like, do you. Because you know, sometimes you go into a zone, you come out of the zone. So, so do you stay there consistently? Or you may come out of a timeout and say, okay, now we're, we're trapping brothers.

[Gary Payton]

What I'll do is I'll try it. I'll see how it works. You know what I'm saying? Because you can't give them a, a real volume of it because then the Knicks are going to charge adjusting to it, but then I'll see what it works with. And then when they are so strong, it's in the fourth quarter. So then I would start trapping him in the fourth quarter. I would take him out of the whole game in the fourth quarter. I wouldn't let Bronson do anything in the fourth quarter.

[Max Kellerman]

Might come down to how, I mean, would that result ever, you think, in McBride seeing minutes late as an adjustment. Right.

[Gary Payton]

You got to. Because he's going to meet, making, try to.

[Rich Paul]

They got to play and Shaman now.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, and Shamon. Yeah, and Shaman. They got to have that. And I would live with these guys who has not been in this big time making big, big time shots in a stage like this. I have to live with that.

[Rich Paul]

And you can also attack those guys. Well, not so much McBride.

[Gary Payton]

You can attack them and do it. I would get Harper and attack.

[Max Kellerman]

This is why I said, I thought going into this series the key guy for the Knicks on offense is actually Hart because he's a streaky shooter. When Hart is hitting shots from the outside, the Knicks damn near impossible. It's almost impossible to beat them because they shoot it too well. Right. But it's going to come down to him. Maybe.

[Rich Paul]

You know what happens tonight though, huh? Cat didn't shoot that many threes to that.

[Gary Payton]

No, he didn't, but he attacked because he had, he had to attack Wimy to get him off.

[Max Kellerman]

I thought he had a really good game.

[Gary Payton]

He had, he had a great game.

[Rich Paul]

He had great touch, man. I was saying, I was like, damn, Cat's driving with the left right, and he's got great touch.

[Max Kellerman]

You know what Wemby's making? Wemby is making them better. Wemby is making Cat better. Because the level you have to be at to score on that dude to protect the basketball is nuts.

[Rich Paul]

So. So what does the Knicks have to do to go up 2 0?

[Gary Payton]

I think if they make shots because they struggle, if they may, if they play well like they did in the fourth quarter all throughout the game, I don't think San Antonio has a chance to get them. But I think that the San Antonio is going to come back with a different mindset in game, in game two. And they're going to come out with a sense of urgency. Young fellas, it's going to be like an AU game to me. Them young fellas going to come out and just play and they're going to attack. They're going to understand what they did wrong. And I know that they're going to try to attack them to tie it up. But if the Knicks play the way they do and they don't play, they don't play Rusty and they make shots and these dudes make shots and I'm telling you, it's. It's got to be the other guys.

[Max Kellerman]

This is why I think there's, there's a danger of a sweep. The reason, I think, is when a team is as hot as the Knicks right now, the time to get them is when they. They've been off for a week. You've been playing competitively get them now you have a lead at home and they already have a split on the road and now they shook the rust. Ew.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, it's going to be difficult, but I still think this team, San Antonio is to going different. They don't, they don't show that they got a lot of heart.

[Rich Paul]

They're gonna fight.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, they're not gonna fight. They're not gonna quit. I hate to say it. This is not the Cavs. They're not gonna quit.

[Gary Payton]

That's what I said and I told him, I said this ain't the Cavaliers. This team is way different than that. And I think they're gonna come out with a different fight. I think they're gonna come out with different fight Friday and the Knicks are gonna feel it. I think they're gonna come at him right away.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, the Knicks better get theirs right now because the whole league the time the tool up was this year it might be a rat.

[Rich Paul]

This is the worst you're going to see. The spurs, they have the ability to adjust and add some things this summer. But look same way for the Knicks too. I mean they can't add as much. They don't have as much flexibility but they got a damn good team. Still, before we let you get out of here, GP Is there anybody you would take right now over Jalen Brunson, the way he's playing the game?

[Max Kellerman]

That's what we've been asking.

[Gary Payton]

Would I take anybody now as a guard?

[Max Kellerman]

No.

[Rich Paul]

As a player.

[Gary Payton]

As a player.

[Rich Paul]

The way he's been playing right now.

[Max Kellerman]

Look, look, people jump to Jokic, right? But here's my point. GP Jokic was down two possessions in the playoffs. Two possessions. He had two minutes. Murray was getting locked down. Usually he's a clutch playoff performer. What do you got? Do it now. Do it now. He did not get it done.

[Gary Payton]

But he's not that player.

[Max Kellerman]

That's what I'm saying.

[Gary Payton]

I'm not trying to say but I think he's an all around basketball player now. He doesn't have a lot of. He doesn't have as much help I think on on Denver than the Knicks do.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Gary Payton]

Okay. He they got a lot of.

[Rich Paul]

They didn't they was missing Aaron Gordon.

[Antonio Daniels]

They were.

[Gary Payton]

They. They're not the same Denver team that they were.

[Max Kellerman]

But yeah, as a clutch player like the other team did not want to Knicks fan didn't want to see you with the ball at the end of the game against the Knicks. Right?

[Gary Payton]

Well Brussels are more clutch players player as making shots than the the joker but the joker is more of an

[Antonio Daniels]

all around basketball player.

[Max Kellerman]

Would you rather the way Brunson is playing right now?

[Gary Payton]

I'll take Brunson because the way he's playing he's playing out insane. He's making big shots, he's making baskets.

[Rich Paul]

He's not saying he's going to start a team.

[Max Kellerman]

I wouldn't start a team Yeah, I would do that. Brunson or is there anyone in the NBA right now that you would take in this moment over Brunson? Edwards and Edwards.

[Gary Payton]

And Edwards.

[Max Kellerman]

I'll take him over two way players, six foot four.

[Gary Payton]

Six four. Jump out the gym about the gym and can do a lot of things.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, I scared in the moment of truth.

[Gary Payton]

I'll take Anthony Edwards over him. I would, I would right now.

[Max Kellerman]

Is that the only one?

[Gary Payton]

Well, it's like you know now the way he's playing. No, he would he have to be

[Rich Paul]

the second player in the finals? He's what you want.

[Gary Payton]

I would have to be.

[Rich Paul]

He's in the finals. He's up one.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm just saying people who think we're talking crazy when, when I ask that question, you're going to hear it more and more. Ask that.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you just ask.

[Max Kellerman]

Just ask.

[Gary Payton]

But, but I would, I would, I would take Steph. Steph Curry too. I think I would take Steph Curry

[Max Kellerman]

over Brunson right now.

[Antonio Daniels]

Right now.

[Gary Payton]

I think Steph Curry can. I think Steph Curry would. Would make a lot of. A lot of basket, a lot of shots, a lot of things. He's coming off picks and stuff like that. He's going to make big time shots. You know what I'm saying? I mean Bronson done the same thing. I think Steph Curry is one of them guys. Steph Ant and Stephan.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, great. Well, there you have it, Max. All right.

[Max Kellerman]

That's the answer.

[Rich Paul]

Ask. We said the glove is gonna get him in. Get the glove out. We appreciate him taking the time out.

[Gary Payton]

No problem.

[Rich Paul]

Obviously.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Hall of Famer anytime you get the hall of Famer's time, we got to take it. Yeah, take it, Max.

[Gary Payton]

It's all good for y' all too. I do it anytime.

[Rich Paul]

And this is what I wanted to show. I said, listen, Max, do not this up.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Because we gonna ask for the man to come back. Don't.

[Antonio Daniels]

I got you.

[Gary Payton]

I got you.

[Rich Paul]

We got a whole CJ.

[Max Kellerman]

Remember how good those Sonics teams were? Oh, man, 60 win teams.

[Rich Paul]

I had to. I rocked a Peyton jersey with the King Griffeys.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah. Cuz you know, they were that green, green, green.

[Gary Payton]

And he had a green and blue. Yeah, he had a green and blue.

[Max Kellerman]

Of course, the next time green looked that good is when the. When Oregon switched their uniforms in like 2010 or the football.

[Gary Payton]

Football game. You know they do that all the time.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but when they did that was the next time I saw green. Like, oh my God. Yeah, Sonic screen.

[Rich Paul]

Max, we gotta let GP go. But listen, me and GP at the house. GP bring me up to the room, right? GP open up the Joy. Got about 50 watches in there.

[Gary Payton]

That's why he got all the eagles.

[Rich Paul]

I say, GP Let me buy that one. Let me buy that one right there. He said, what? I said, I want to buy that one right there. He said, nah, man. He said, nah, don't worry about that. He said, don't. Don't worry about. I got you. I said, yeah, I'm gonna buy it right now, man. He had the pan around. He had everything, though. 50 watches.

[Gary Payton]

I'm a watch guy.

[Max Kellerman]

And now this explains everything.

[Gary Payton]

That's why.

[Antonio Daniels]

Now, listen, I had.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, I'm telling you, this is part.

[Antonio Daniels]

He's partly his fault.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you know Rich hires a guy to stand in his house and just wind his wife.

[Rich Paul]

No, I don't listen to this guy. He'll believe nothing like that.

[Gary Payton]

I ain't gonna believe. I don't believe that one.

[Max Kellerman]

Great to see you. Thanks for.

[Gary Payton]

Thank you, guys.

[Rich Paul]

Game over.

[Max Kellerman]

Spotify.com Game over with Max Keller and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

And the Glove.

[Max Kellerman]

And the Glove.

[Rich Paul]

Wow.

[Max Kellerman]

Today, tonight, and the glove, 21 and over in select states For Kansas, affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchattan Connecticut or visit mdg.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.