Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Episode: Giannis’s Windmill, Holiday Football, and the Spurs’ Dominance Over OKC

Date: December 29, 2025
Podcast Host: The Ringer

Episode Overview

Max Kellerman and Rich Paul return post-holidays to dissect the latest in sports and culture, focusing on NFL playoff races, the shifting quarterback hierarchy, NBA regular season storylines, and culture/leadership dynamics in both leagues. The episode blends sharp football talk—especially around playoff contenders and the Giants’ ignominious season—with in-depth NBA conversations on star behavior (Giannis) and team development (OKC and San Antonio).

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Holiday Talk & House Organization (00:33–04:36)

• Rich Paul recounts his meticulous approach to home cleanliness, likening interior design to fashion (“like my eighth job”), and jokes about being OCD.
• Max admires Rich’s discipline:
  • “When you walk in my house, it looks the same way every time.” (Rich, 02:04)
• Light joking about the difference between TV/movie households and real life, and how Rich manages to keep his home clutter-free.

2. NFL Christmas & Recent Games Breakdown

A. Texans on the Rise (06:56–09:32)

• Max’s Early Super Bowl Prediction:
  • “My way too early Super Bowl pick is the Houston Texans... every 10 or 15 years, you see a front seven like this.”
• Rich echoes praise, describing the defense as fast and overwhelming (“looked like the Texans defense had too many men on the field.” - 08:21).
• Rich shares a personal story from the game, sitting with Will Anderson’s parents, noting the excitement and detailed understanding of football, especially from Will’s mother.

B. QB Leadership and Perceptions (10:07–14:11)

• Max raises how leadership styles are scrutinized, particularly QBs like Herbert, Allen, and Hurts.
• Rich: “You can’t tell somebody how to lead... if you act and it’s not authentic, your troops see that.” (14:02)

C. Jalen Hurts vs. Josh Allen: Winning Ugly (11:19–16:21)

• Detailed comparison between Hurts’ and Allen’s approaches, with Max assessing Hurts:
  • “He’s basically a game manager with wheels. But that’s not an insult...”
• Rich pushes back: “Jalen Hurts, first of all, is a Super Bowl champion MVP... we have to stop trying to determine how we want guys to lead.” (12:23)
• Both hosts agree that authenticity and “winning ugly” are undervalued:
  • “There’s something about having an ugly win.” (Rich, 15:51)

D. Texans, Bills, and AFC Playoff Projections (16:13–19:01)

• Continued support for Texans over the Bills (“The Texans are the matchup problem for everyone.” – Rich, 16:58).
• Max and Rich muse about wearing cowboy hats for every Texans win—Rich playfully insists, “Let’s get you some Luccheses, Max.” (17:27)

3. Franchise Culture & Fan Agony

A. Browns and Giants Outrage (20:11–40:13)

• The guys debate draft position versus playing to win for teams out of playoff contention:
  • Rich, on Browns: “Any time the Browns beat the Steelers, I'm happy...but also want a worse record because draft position.” (21:00)
  • Max, frustrated with Giants’ Week 17 win, laments lost draft capital and calls for owner John Mara to recuse himself from football operations:
    • “Ever since he really began running the team...they've been a laughingstock, arguably the worst team in football.” (30:36)
• Explores culture clashes between traditional “heritage teams” and modern, ruthless tanking strategies.
• Classic New York sports fan misery:
  • “I want my cake and eat it, too. Why can’t I have it?” (Max, 32:38)
  • “You have to watch what you say on this show...we need a flag, we need a whistle.” (Rich, 33:09)

4. NBA: Giannis’s Windmill Dunk & Championship Etiquette (41:17–46:07)

A. Giannis’s Windmill & Championship Mindset

• Max references Giannis’ reasoning for the late-game windmill dunk:
  • “He says, we’re not a championship team, so I’m doing something champions don’t do. That’s reversing what most people think...the point is to develop the habits.”
• Rich clarifies:
  • “He’s caught between a rock and a hard place...I think he tries to do things the right way...He’s trying to give off this attitude to spark his teammates.” (45:16)
  • “He’s earned everything he’s gotten in this league...and you’re the Milwaukee Bucks, it’s tough to do.”

B. The Superstar Trade Question (47:24–54:47)

• In-depth riff on superstar agency:
  • Rich: “No player wants to have the blame...I’m making you aware of this and you can give some input, but I have to make my own decision.”
  • Max asks about Giannis’s trade/relocation future; Rich offers cautious realism—Milwaukee wants to keep him, and Giannis’s unique personality means culture matters.
• Debunking the “clutch runs the Lakers” narrative:
  • “If I ran the Lakers, I would have been a part of the deal and got some of that moolah!” (Rich, 49:30)

5. Team Building: The "Big Two" and Depth Model (54:51–57:35)

• Rich argues against the “Big Three” superstar approach:
  • “I just don’t like it in this NBA...I like a big two and depth.” (54:54)
• Emphasizes importance of culture and development:
  • “Before you can even get into personnel, you have to focus on two things: culture and development. That brings forth consistency.”
  • Warns teams not to get blinded by “names on the back” and to value fit, IQ, and seamless teamwork.

6. Young Teams, Playoff Matchups, and the Spurs Over OKC (58:43–61:51)

• Discussion on how regular-season matchups might (or might not) translate to playoff success:
  • “San Antonio just matches up so well with OKC.” (Rich, 60:10)
• Max notes the Spurs have beaten OKC three times this year; Rich discusses culture, role acceptance, and high-IQ drafting as keys to San Antonio’s advantage.

7. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On team leadership:
  • “You can’t tell somebody how to lead...if you act and it’s not authentic, then your troops see that.” —Rich Paul (14:02)
• On Jalen Hurts:
  • “Jalen Hurts, first of all, is a Super Bowl champion MVP...back to your point, we have to stop trying to determine how we want guys to lead.” —Rich Paul (12:23)
• On draft philosophy:
  • “Who cares about style points?...Win the football game, son.” —Rich Paul (24:46)
• On franchise futility:
  • “There are some people who are mush. It’s the opposite of the Midas touch. And Mara is the anti-Midas in terms of the Giants.” —Max Kellerman (36:36)

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• Rich’s OCD & House Management: 00:33–04:36
• Texans as “Super Bowl Dark Horse”: 07:05–09:32
• QBs, Leadership & Authenticity: 10:07–16:21
• NFL Franchise Draft Dilemmas (Browns/Giants): 20:01–40:13
• Giannis, Championship Etiquette, and NBA Culture: 41:17–47:24
• Superstar Trade Dynamics & Big Two vs. Big Three: 47:24–57:35
• Spurs/OKC, Culture, & Playoff Projections: 58:43–61:51

Tone & Language

• Conversational, candid, occasionally playful.
• Open disagreement, but always respectful and rooted in long-term perspective.
• Sprinkled with humor/self-deprecation, especially around the woes of being a fan.
• Mix of insider perspective (Rich’s experience as an agent) and classic sports radio analysis (Max’s hypotheticals & pathos).

Closing Note

The episode ends with a teaser for the next show (potential Anthony Davis trade talk) and a tongue-in-cheek debate about sweater gifting for teens.

Summary prepared for listeners who want sharp, insightful sports conversation with plenty of behind-the-scenes context, locker room psychology, and a dash of sports fan agony.