Is Men’s College Basketball Back? Lakers Buying In, and JSN Gets the Bag.

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Host: The Ringer
Episode: Is Men’s College Basketball Back? Lakers Buying In, and JSN Gets the Bag.
Date: March 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul dive into the resurgence of men’s college basketball, the chemistry and buy-in from the Los Angeles Lakers, and the record-breaking NFL contract extension for Jackson Smith-Njigba (JSN). They share their courtside experiences, debate NBA draft prospects, dissect March Madness surprises, explore the impact of Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) on college sports, and answer listener questions spanning basketball duos, music, and the evolution of athlete development.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Men’s College Basketball Back?

Timestamps: 00:47–07:33, 08:06–16:52, 26:09–29:23, 49:23–54:44

• On-Site Tournament Experience:
  Max and Rich recap a train trip to watch Arizona vs. LIU in the NCAA tournament. Arizona’s roster stands out—Max says "All five guys, if they're in the draft, could be drafted somewhere." (01:39)

• Depth & Quality of Play:
  Both marvel at how many NBA prospects are staying in college longer, noting improved quality and experienced teams.

  • Rich: "I think the men's college game is where you actually develop your stardom." (26:20)

• Draft Standouts and Philosophies:
  The hosts passionately discuss point guard Darius Acuff, with Rich championing him as the clear #1 NBA draft pick:

  • Rich: “He's easily the best player in the country. Like, easily.” (09:17)
  • Max probes what makes Acuff special—ball-handling, shot-creation, size (6'2"/6'3"), and on-court IQ.
  • Debate about drafting "best player" vs. fit: “Don't overthink this, man. Get the pieces and then… reformulate the way you do things around those pieces.” – Rich (13:47)

• Impact of NIL:
  The new compensation rules let more stars stay in school:

  • Rich: "If I'm gonna be, if I'm 20 to 30 in the draft, you might make more money staying in school." (27:14)
  • Max: “It's not like the old days where... I'm risking multi millions by doing this. What if I get hurt? Nowadays... you might be making similar or more money in college temporarily and getting developed.” (29:08)

• Women’s vs. Men’s College Game:
  Rich and Max note how NIL changed women’s basketball, and predict men’s NCAA basketball will be more star-driven and competitive again as players linger longer before going pro.

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2. March Madness—Standouts, Coaches, and Tournament Moments

Timestamps: 07:52–24:46

• Standout Games and Players:
  St. John’s upset win over Kansas, the heroics of Darius Acuff, Buries, and Peterson, and the angles on men’s March Madness buzzer beaters.

  • On Peterson: “When someone's called the presumptive number one pick or whatever, you want to see what they do under pressure in the tournament.” – Rich (08:30)

• Iconic Coaches:
  Extended reflection on Rick Pitino—his tactical genius, reinventions, legacy at Providence, Kentucky, Knicks, Boston, Louisville, Iona, and now back in the Sweet 16 with St. John's.

  • Max: “Rick Pitino, when you think about the effect... the way the game is played today... started with Pitino in the bomb squad and the Knicks in the 80s.” (21:23)

• X’s and O’s:
  Strategic mistakes (Bill Self using all fouls instead of saving one late) and the evolution of tournament pressure play.

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3. NBA: The Lakers’ Chemistry and Team Buy-In

Timestamps: 36:12–46:34

• Early Season Struggles:
  Max was previously critical of the Lakers’ chemistry: “They were... the anti chemistry team to me.” (36:12)

  • Blames lack of buy-in, inconsistent leadership, and Luka’s body language.

• Turning Point:

  • Coach JJ Redick publicly calls out Luka, leading to improved defensive effort and team dynamic.
  • LeBron’s strategic patience and adaptation after time sidelined: "All the input, all the data is coming in and he's figuring it out. And at a certain point, he's like, okay, got it. Boom." – Rich (39:46)
  • Buy-in by Deandre Ayton: admitting to embracing the grunt work, leading to team cohesion.

• Coaching and Leadership:
  Max lauds JJ Redick’s pulse on the squad and considers him for Coach of the Year, highlighting his “attention to detail” and “hitting the right button at the right time.” (38:41)

  • Rich: “It takes buy in from all… and some level setting.” (43:40)

• Regular Season and Playoff Implications:
  Rich emphasizes “the regular season is to build confidence for the playoffs amongst the role players.” (46:07)

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4. NBA, Expansion, and Talent vs. Know-How

Timestamps: 47:09–54:44

• Expansion Debates:
  Some ex-players express skepticism about NBA expansion due to talent dilution.
  • Rich: "But that argument, think about how... what that reduces to... that suggests you need to fix the product." (48:34)
  • Max: “There’s a ton of talent, but there isn’t a ton of know how.” (51:40)
  • College as a Training Ground: NIL and sustained college careers may reverse the drop in "know-how."

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5. NFL: JSN Gets the Bag

Timestamps: 55:55–61:04

• Jackson Smith-Njigba (JSN) Extension:
  • JSN signs a 4-year, $168.6 million contract, becoming the highest-paid WR in NFL history.
  • Max: “Whoever's elite at their position who comes up in their prime for a contract will usually reset the all time market. And JSN is arguably the best receiver in football.” (55:55)
  • Rich covers the agent’s perspective—balancing player wealth, team-building, and long-term value.
  • Discussion contrasts JSN with other WRs, the Seahawks’ strategy, and the evolving economics of peak stars.
  • Rich: “The only thing that matters is what is the opportunity cost of the Seahawks losing this player… that is his value.” (60:36)

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6. Life, Moments vs. Memories, and Off-the-Court Chemistry

Timestamps: 32:48–36:12, 70:54–76:46

• Moments vs. Memories Philosophy:
  Max: “You really got to decide two things. Who you want to create moments with and who you want to create memories with. And there's a difference...” (32:48)

  • Rich pushes for clarity on this concept, with playful back-and-forth banter about what sticks in life and relationships.

• Travel & Social Life:
  Anecdotes from their train trip, missed events, and group hangouts, reflecting the camaraderie between the hosts.

  • Rich: “That's actually a good distinction… moments that you will always remember.” (35:57)

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7. Listener Mailbag: NBA Duos, Music, and the Modern Artist

Timestamps: 61:07–70:28

• 2020s Music & Hip-Hop Evolution:
  • Rich: "When you grow up in our generation... we grew up in the golden era of music.” (61:59)
  • Both reflect on the DIY era of music vs. golden age labels, the democratization of production, and industry gatekeeping.
  • Max: "Every era... you will find great songs and you'll find a lot of garbage." (64:40)
• NBA Duos:
  • Listener asks if Wemby and Castle could become an all-time great duo; debate ensues, referencing classic duos (Jordan/Pippen, Magic/Kareem, Shaq/Kobe, etc.).
  • Max corrects misaggregation of his earlier statements about Jokic/Murray and discusses what makes a true duo.
  • Rich on Castle: “He's going to be a top five guard.” (70:08)
• Fantasy GM & Draft Talk:
  Fans push for Darius Acuff as #1 pick; hosts stress not having to diss other stars to praise Acuff.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I can't tell if I feel like the men's game is coming back because we're doing this show... but I feel like... it's been some really good games.” – Max (07:52)
• “Draft Jordan. Play him at center... Don't overthink this, man.” – Rich (13:47)
• “Rick Pitino... the way the game is played today... started with Pitino in the bomb squad and the Knicks in the 80s.” – Max (21:23)
• “If I'm gonna be... 20 to 30 in the draft, you might make more money staying in school.” – Rich (27:14)
• “It's not like the old days where... I'm risking multi millions by doing this. What if I get hurt? Nowadays... you might be making similar or more money in college.” – Max (29:08)
• “Every era... you will find great songs and you'll find a lot of garbage.” – Max (64:40)
• “The only thing that matters is what is the opportunity cost of the Seahawks losing this player… that is his value.” – Rich (60:36)
• “Who you want to create moments with and who you want to create memories with… there's a difference.” – Max (32:48)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:47: Post-ad open, train trip/watching NCAA tournament
• 01:39: Arizona’s NBA-ready starting five
• 07:33: “Is the men’s game coming back?”
• 09:17–13:43: Darius Acuff as top NBA draft pick, draft philosophy
• 21:23: Pitino’s influence on the modern game
• 26:09–29:23: NIL’s impact on college career decisions
• 36:12: Lakers’ chemistry turnaround
• 39:46: LeBron’s adaptation and JJ Redick’s impact
• 44:31: How buy-in, psychology, and hesitation affect team chemistry
• 55:55: JSN’s record-breaking contract
• 60:36: “Opportunity cost” as the measure of star value
• 61:07–70:28: Listener mailbag: music, duos, NBA history
• 70:54: Playful music industry memories and moments
• 76:46: Show wind-down, more off-court stories

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Tone and Language

The episode is rich with sports banter, deep basketball analysis, playful ribbing, and genuine appreciation for the games and careers discussed. Max and Rich blend intellectual takes with personal stories and humorous moments, never shying away from passionate (but respectful) disagreement.

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Summary Takeaways

• Men’s college basketball has become more competitive and exciting, largely thanks to NIL, player development, and increased parity.
• NBA teams should not “overthink” draft decisions—sometimes, the best player (regardless of size or prototype) is simply the best pick.
• Coaches like Rick Pitino have profoundly shaped the game beyond their records.
• The Lakers’ season emphasizes how buy-in and chemistry can pivot a team from disarray to contention, with credit due to JJ Redick and player accountability.
• NFL contracts for WRs (e.g., JSN) show the inflating market for elite talent and the agent/team negotiation chess match.
• Listener engagement brings in sharp questions about basketball history, music, duos, and more—showing the cultural reach of the pod.

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Transcript

[Rich]

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[Max]

Max.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

Can you believe we had Snoop on?

[Rich]

Yeah, that was fun.

[Max]

That was fun. Yeah, that was fun.

[Rich]

I can't believe I took a train with you down. Down to San Diego.

[Max]

I. Listen, I can't believe you did not want to take a train with you.

[Rich]

I was about to bag on you. So we're going to the. We're going to. For people, they don't know what the hell we're talking about. We're going to the tournament game. Arizona and liu. Yeah, we're going to go check that out. And I thought at the last second, wait a minute, it's a Friday. We're going to be stuck in traffic both ways. I almost bagged on you. Yeah.

[Max]

You know what I thought, like, why not bring Max to work with me?

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

Did you realize that you were going to work with me?

[Rich]

Yeah, of course.

[Max]

Oh, I thought I was.

[Rich]

But it's good. Cause we. We could chop it up all the way back, back and forth, both ways. And then we could watch the game. Always like watching a basketball game with you.

[Max]

We had great seats. And Arizona, whew, I told you.

[Rich]

And they've already had their. They just came off a game that was kind of rocky for them. They still win by like 10 points. That'll happen in the tournament. But they have five guys, Rich. I'm thinking about their starting five. All five guys are going to go. They could be drafted. All five guys, if they're in the

[Max]

draft, could be drafted somewhere. Yeah. Not all in the first round.

[Rich]

Creed was a 7 foot 2 center.

[Max]

No, I'm not. No, listen, he can play. But for a moment, I will tip my hat to liu because Rod Strickland, obviously, Rod was coaching and they were competing.

[Rich]

They were trying their best.

[Max]

You know, they're outmatched. But they were competing. And I think for those kids, that's a real moment. You're playing Arizona, obviously. Do you think you have a puncher's chance? Probably not, but yeah, you're Right. And Arizona brings in guys off the bench. That.

[Rich]

Yeah. Number 30. Big, big boy off the bench, man. He's rebound.

[Max]

You need that?

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

Need that?

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

It's going to be.

[Rich]

I mean, I think the guy who might get. If you put the starting five in a draft, maybe Bradley is the last guy drafted because he's a senior.

[Max]

He's a senior. He's a.

[Rich]

But would he go in the second round?

[Max]

I think so. Look, he was Big 12 player. He was Big 12 player of the year.

[Rich]

That's what I'm saying. He's one of their best players.

[Max]

Yeah, but in college that experience does matter.

[Rich]

And what's his. Who's the other kid? Not. Not Pete or Buries. Not buries.

[Max]

Not Pete, not pronounces.

[Rich]

Yeah. No car

[Max]

number. Number seven.

[Rich]

Should look that up.

[Max]

No, but yeah, he, He. He could play both sides of the ball too.

[Rich]

He's a smart player. He's a good player. Like they. They're good. We have to find that name.

[Max]

You can find it.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

But no, they're. They're a good team. I, I picked them to be there in the end. They have a tough matchup coming up with Arkansas, I love.

[Rich]

So when I think about the games that I'm most excited to see, I think Acuff against Arizona, like that might be. That's the team I think is the best. That's the best player to me in the world in college versus the best team in college.

[Max]

Put it this way. Acuff and Buries. Could potentially go in the top five or six. They could both be in the top six picks, right? I would say top five, but I'm just going to say I'm giving myself. I would say they could both potentially be in the top six. Acuff and Burrs.

[Rich]

There's so much to get into.

[Max]

There is a busy.

[Rich]

For.

[Max]

For.

[Rich]

For a. For a kind of time with no football, few transactions, a lot of sports.

[Max]

I watched. We had a crazy. We went to NCAA tournament.

[Rich]

That's right.

[Max]

Obviously I played golf. You know that.

[Rich]

No.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Rich]

Both. Right. Saturday and Sunday.

[Max]

No, I just went to the range on Saturday and I played 18 yesterday early.

[Rich]

Let me tell you how. How old I am nowadays. All I did on Saturday was. Or Friday was sit on a train. Right. And then we went from the train like two and a half hours plus both ways. So five hours and change on a train sitting and then sat in seats with you watching the game. That's the. And then drove. Gotta get in a little traffic. When I got back, I Was exhausted. At the end of the day, it was Friday. It's like 6 o'.

[Max]

Clock.

[Rich]

I'm exhausted.

[Max]

I have a motor.

[Rich]

I do anything.

[Max]

I watched NBA games, obviously.

[Rich]

Right.

[Max]

Watched the tournament. They had the flag. Football.

[Rich]

Oh, yeah. Did you go to that on Saturday?

[Max]

I didn't go. No, I didn't go. I went.

[Rich]

And had I told you I'd gone with you? If you had all access, you had

[Max]

to have like, I had all access, but I just. I just decided not to go.

[Rich]

Thank God I didn't.

[Max]

They lost.

[Rich]

I mean, I said I would go and I immediately regret it.

[Max]

USA team was incredible, but it's a different game. It's a shorter field.

[Rich]

Tom Brady made that throw. It made the rounds on social media.

[Max]

Well, yeah, I mean, it's not like you're asking Tom Brady to do what he was born to do, throw a football.

[Rich]

Right. Of course.

[Max]

I wasn't surprised by that. What else?

[Rich]

Lot going on.

[Max]

It was a lot going on.

[Rich]

Should we get into March Madness right now?

[Max]

Yes. Where we at sweet 16 now, right?

[Rich]

Yep, that's right. This episode of Game over is presented to you by Loom. If your organization runs on endless email threads and status meetings, teams feel stuck. Unstuck them with Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian. Teams record their screen and share a link so others review on their own time. AI makes recording and editing one click and add summaries, action items and searchable transcripts so everyone gets clarity in minutes, not meetings. Replace unnecessary meetings. Speed up approvals and onboard faster. With Loom, you remove communication friction. It's a team changer. Try loom [e-mail]. Rich March Madness it is. It's. I can't. I. Okay. I can't tell. This is the God's honest truth. I can't tell if I feel like the men's game is coming back. Because we're doing this show, because we're doing this, I'm paying closer attention to the tournament than I would if I'm. If I'm not doing this right. Like, if. If I have a job where I'm talking sports, I will pay very close attention to the tournament. If not, I'll pay attention to my Yankees, to the Giants, to the fights, and to certain players and teams I like. But when you do this, you got to pay attention. So I can't tell if that's the reason or if it's. The men's game is really getting better, but I feel like I. I think

[Max]

it's a little bit of Both for you, maybe. Yeah. And I hope, you know, there's a pop quiz from our field trip. I got it. It's multiple. It's multiple choice.

[Rich]

Okay.

[Max]

All right.

[Rich]

Because multiple choice, we can eliminate a few answers.

[Max]

Yeah. But no, I think it's both. I think it's been some really. It's been some good games. It's been some really good games. I mean, I watched the St. John's Kansas game.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

You know, obviously.

[Rich]

Did you feel like they wanted Kansas. It was like 10 fouls to two at a certain point. Like. Like the NCAA wanted Kansas to do well. Did it feel lopsided to you in

[Max]

terms of the way that goes to. The question is, does the blue blood still matter?

[Rich]

Right. Yeah.

[Max]

Because back in the day, you would. You would know there's going to be at least 50% of the blue bloods,

[Rich]

but you would think that there would be some sentimentality for St. John's at this point, too.

[Max]

You know, St. John's played their ass off. Yeah, they did. Yeah. They won that game. That game wasn't given to them. They won that game. Actually, Kansas was scrambling towards the end.

[Rich]

I give Peterson credit because when you're in that situation, if someone's called the presumptive number one pick or whatever, you want to see what they do under pressure in the tournament, second half of that game, he brings his team back.

[Max]

Yeah. No, look, I think. Look, when you come out as number one, there's no other place for you to go.

[Rich]

Right.

[Max]

So that's why I don't really love that. I'd rather climb, you mean?

[Rich]

Yeah. As a player.

[Max]

Yeah, as a player. Like, you look at Darius Acuff. Darius Acuff was not ranked on. He was not on any draft boards. I'm going to get into that coming into this year. Now he has people saying he should go number one.

[Rich]

Yeah. Me, I'm saying he should go number one. I think it's obvious. I can't believe it's not obvious.

[Max]

Why do you think he should go number one?

[Rich]

He's easily the best player in the country. Like, easily.

[Max]

But what makes him the best player?

[Rich]

Everything. He's like. He's just better at basketball than everyone else. I know he's six' two, six' three, and everyone's. I mean, listen, we can get into this right now. Cause I've been thinking about this. Remember back in the day when I think GMs, a lot of times are scared for their jobs. Right. You don't wanna take a big swing and miss. So you look For a player with a high floor. And the easiest thing to project is size, because you can look at that. He's seven feet. He's seven feet. So back in the day when it was more of a post, low post game and you played that way, you know, the seven footer would be overdrafted. You think Okafor, think Greg Odin, by the way. Hakeem Olajuwon was overdrafted, as it turns out. And he's one of the greatest players who ever lived because you, you can't fake that it's seven feet. The floor is a certain. Nowadays that same thing is going on with wings. With switchable six, seven, six, eight wings.

[Max]

Everyone's looking for them.

[Rich]

Everyone's looking for them. So I think when you see a smaller backcourt player, they think, well, that could be a problem. They could be exposed defensively. But he's just better than those guys. Acuff's better than those guys.

[Max]

Everyone wants wings. Everyone wants wing. In a minute, you're going to be able to go in the wing, stop and get a basketball, get a basket.

[Rich]

That's right.

[Max]

No, because everyone literally wants, wants wings. And I understand it. But what I will say to you is, is. But there does come exceptions, and in this case, a cuff may be an exception because you actually want the person driving the car.

[Rich]

Right.

[Max]

I've never seen a Formula one champion that. That was a passenger like you. And as a point guard, that's a bar right there. Yeah, the point guard, he's. He's controlling that steering wheel.

[Rich]

You're looking for IQ in the point guard, right?

[Max]

And when that guy is dynamic, it is hard to pass on that guy who's going to have the ball. In key moments, he can get guys involved. He can also make a play for himself. He's bigger than a lot of people think.

[Rich]

Yeah, that's the. See, if he was six feet tall, I get it, okay? He's not. He's like six, two, six three.

[Max]

He's like six, three. I saw him standing next to AI. That's good. Allen's what, six, one and a half? Yeah, maybe so, yeah, I would say Acuff is six, two and a half. He's about an inch taller than AI. Strong plays and. And when I look at his jump shot, because these are things, right? When you, when you're a point guard, it's simple things. Coming off a ball screen, guy go under, there's no hesitation. You have to make him play. Right. Make him pay for that. Also, as a smaller guard, quote, unquote smaller guard. Your ability to create separation. Right. With the handle. Then he can also play without the ball coming off.

[Rich]

Pinball. Smart player.

[Max]

Yes. And one thing I pay attention to with him is his feet. Watch when he creates space. Space, dribble. He come to. He. He's always getting his feet set under him.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

And he's square. So therefore, even if he misses the shot, at least had a chance to go in. Sometimes you see young players take shots and the shot had no chance of going in. Not because of anything outside of what you seeing from the waist down in terms of, you know. Cause Ray Allen, if he just gets his shoulders square, his legs can be out of bounds, he can make the shot. But most guys don't shoot as good as Ray Allen. Except for me. Yeah, but. But as far as acuff, I just.

[Rich]

Are you square to the basket or you want. Your legs can be going any which way. I.

[Max]

All I need is my shoulder square. Max. Yeah. And the ball in front. It's pretty nine out of ten. Pretty much. But nevertheless. Acuff. I think. I think. I think you may be. I mean, you're not wrong. I would put it this way. It wouldn't surprise me. But. But here's the thing. We can't just go out and say where players should go. I mean, you can. That's fine, but it also comes down to the lottery. Who gets the. Who has what.

[Rich]

No doubt.

[Max]

Are you one of those guys? I'm just taking the best player no matter what. Or am I taking knee?

[Rich]

Draft Jordan. Play him at center. Oh, we need. Who should I draft? Bobby Knight? Jordan. We need a center. Draft Jordan. Play him at center. Like, don't overthink this, man. Get the pieces. And then. Then you have to reformulate the way you do things around those pieces. Right.

[Max]

I mean, okay, so Minnesota at one point took two point. Guards, five and six.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

They pass on Steph. That always comes back to right.

[Rich]

Take the best player. Yeah, take the best. Like, I remember that was overthinking it.

[Max]

Don't overthink it.

[Rich]

What was it? 02. What was the year? Carmelo won the national title. And early in the season, that was 03.03. I was doing around the horn. And so early in the season, everyone's talking about TJ Ford and he could play. But then I watched Carmelo in some Syracuse game early on. I'm like, oh, excuse me. So I'm not just saying it has to be the guard. In that case, it was more of the wing. But you see, Carmelo and you go, he's clearly much better than everyone else in the cut. Like, he was the number one guy. I immediately was like, all right, they're going to win the national title. Because he had a good supporting cast, McNamara and all these guys.

[Max]

Great supporting.

[Rich]

Yeah. And clutch players. And that's the best player. That's how I feel watching these guys. Who is it the Bansa or Peterson or Boozer or this one or that one or Caleb? It's Acuff. And by the way, it's not Acuff by a little bit. It's Acuff by a lot. He's much better than everybody. He's a better basketball player than everybody. I would say this, and that's the tangibles that you just went over the intangibles. He's not scared.

[Max]

He's not scared. But I'll say this, and we didn't get a chance to see him, but neither is Caleb Wilson. And I know you haven't watched Caleb Wilson a lot, but I would say Caleb Wilson has the most upside in this draft. He does. He does. Because he did not get a chance to play his full game. You never saw him catch the ball at the elbow to be able to turn and face and get to things. He has a handle. You know, every young player.

[Rich]

I'm aware. I've spoken to his agent about this.

[Max]

Oh, did you? Yeah. But did you speak to any NBA scouts?

[Rich]

No, no.

[Max]

I'm just saying. I'm just. I'm just saying that's not Mr. Bias either. This is a different hat. This is my tow truck hat assistance 24 7. But this is. But, but, but. No, seriously, I think that, yes, both Acuff, all these kids are extremely talented. You can't. Because here's the other thing. You. You also can't front on AJ he's done the work. Yeah, sure, he's done the work.

[Rich]

Boozer's been. And Boozer's just excellent player. They're all good.

[Max]

But. But I think when we look back three to five years from now, hopefully they all be doing well, especially the guys who get drafted. Hopefully they all be doing well. But I do think we're going to look back and it's going to be, wow, Caleb, because he's. Caleb Wilson has the most upside. As of now, Acuff has had the most impact.

[Rich]

I'm taking Acuff with the number. If I have the number one pick, I'm taking Acuff. If he's around at two, I'm taking Acuff 3 5. Take Acuff. You're gonna look smart in the long run, you know, I mean, come on. By the way, I gotta say something about this tournament so far. You have guys like Folgaris, who hits the game winning shot for Iowa over the national defending champs. You have Darling, who calls his. He hadn't scored a single point. Pitino brought this up at the post game presser and calls his own number with the wrong guy with three seconds left. And he's a lefty and he's going to his right. Those are moments where these guys are. So that's a winning attitude, like, call my number.

[Max]

You need those guys in those moments. You need a little like. Is that deranged of him? Because Pitino was caught off guard, he's like, wait, what do you mean?

[Rich]

There was no time to debate it, though.

[Max]

You're calling you on guard.

[Rich]

I like that even more. Because when a guy says, I'm calling my number, and he does it at a time where he knows coach doesn't have time to say no.

[Max]

But when you see his presser, the kid, he was like, I said, let's go. Let's run power. I think that was the name of the call, let's run power. But he ran away from him.

[Rich]

He's gone.

[Max]

He's gone.

[Rich]

So he's. No time.

[Max]

I couldn't hear what you said.

[Rich]

By the way, I know Bill Self owned this. After the game, you have four fouls to give. At the end of the game, you use all four of them and there's three seconds left on the clock. To me, I understand using three, you have to keep one in your back pocket so that your team doesn't have to play on their heels defensively. Right? You could see on that last layup, they didn't want a foul. And you just keep it. You don't have to use it. So you're playing active defense. But in the case that you get beat or you think it might be close, you wrap them up. You take the foul, right? Because you have one to give. They had nothing. It cost him the game.

[Max]

He emptied the pockets.

[Rich]

Yeah, a little too soon. Gotta keep one in the holster.

[Max]

Well, can't buy any sweets now. That's it.

[Rich]

But he owned it after the game.

[Max]

Yeah, but it's Bill Self like, you know, I loved. How long has Bill Self been coaching?

[Rich]

That's a good question.

[Max]

This gotta be.

[Rich]

This is only the second time him and Pitino have ever met. I've only ever seen a coaching.

[Max]

There's only been two coaches in my lifetime at Kansas.

[Rich]

Right.

[Max]

It was Larry Brown and then Bill Self. Right? No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It wasn't Larry Brown. It was Roy Williams.

[Rich]

Roy Williams and then Bill Self.

[Max]

Yeah, right. Larry Brown was before Roy Williams. I only saw Roy Williams. Maybe I saw Larry Brown. Maybe I did see a little bit of Larry Brown.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

But I only rem. I only really remember Roy Williams because I. You know, that's. He had Pierce and Jacque Von and. And Heinrich.

[Rich]

So how long has Self been at Kansas now?

[Max]

Had to be, at least, because when did Roy go to Dean Smith? Left UNC in what, 98?

[Rich]

I'm so bad with this.

[Max]

Had to be. No, because Guthridge was Guthrie, maybe.

[Rich]

It was 2000. I didn't even remember the Carmelli year. I said it was 02.

[Max]

It went Dean Smith, Guthridge, Doherty, Williams at UNC.

[Rich]

Dean Smith, Guthridge, Doherty, Williams.

[Max]

Right, yes. So that mean Roy Williams had to be there all the way up until at least 2001, right in that pocket.

[Rich]

So talking about quarter of a century,

[Max]

2003, 20, 21. That was his last year at Kansas, or 2003 was the last year. Right. So 2003, okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Rich]

In the 2000s.

[Max]

Early. Yeah. That's the fly. Phi Slammer Jammer. Warm up. You got. I know what it is. You don't know what it is.

[Rich]

I know what it is. I know what it is. I was looking for a St. John's one and couldn't find it.

[Max]

Got your alphabets mixed up?

[Rich]

Nah, they just didn't have it. They didn't have a couple. I got a couple. Went to the wrong plug. I got a couple of these in the holster for you, too.

[Max]

Went to the wrong plug.

[Rich]

That's true. That's true. Just go to. This is the plug right here.

[Max]

It's true for all that stuff you got unplugged.

[Rich]

No. Dean says no, but listen, so those. Another theme that came out of this for me. You know, you say, like, this is Pitino's like, third, but it's Pitino's like, eighth act. When you think of how long Pitino's been around, how many ups and downs, the impact he's had on basketball through the years.

[Max]

He's the Al Pacino of college.

[Rich]

It's unbelievable. And let me tell you something about the way the human brain works, and especially, I think, the American sports fan, if you succeed in the end, we love you. Like, it doesn't matter, the ups and downs and whatever else. People don't like, if you succeed in the end. And there's that south park episode right where they from years ago, where it's like, first we want to build you up as fans and idolize you. Then we want anything you do wrong and everyone does wrong. Right? We want to use that to tear you down. Cause then we want to see if you'll rise from the ashes again. And then we love you again. Rick Pitino, when you think about the effect, and I bring this up all the time because I don't think he gets enough credit for it. The way the game is played today, the ultimate manifestation with the threes and everything started with Pitino in the bomb squad and the knicks in the 80s. Pitino, right before Pat Riley got there, he had guys jacking up threes. That led eventually to Dan Toney in seven seconds or less, which led to Mark Jackson telling Steph and Clay, just throw. It doesn't matter where you are, you can shoot it. Which led to Steve Kerr refining that, which led to what we see in the league today. Patino's had an enormous influence.

[Max]

Where was Pitino at before the Knicks? Providence.

[Rich]

Yeah, Providence.

[Max]

So Providence, N.Y. then he went to Kentucky, then Boston.

[Rich]

Then how do you wind up. Then he winds up in Europe eventually. And then he has to kind of build it back up.

[Max]

Then Louisville.

[Rich]

He's been everywhere.

[Max]

The thing I like about Pitino is he just loves basketball because he coached Iona.

[Rich]

That's how he got back in.

[Max]

But I'm saying. But it's not. But here's the thing. He didn't have to get back in.

[Rich]

No. Hundred percent, he wanted to get back in. He's a junkie.

[Max]

Yes, he's a basketball junkie in a great way. I love those Kentucky teams he had.

[Rich]

Yeah. I love the Knicks teams he had back in the day. And we knew that, like when the Knicks got Pat Riley. Okay. Now it'll be at another level professionally because he has guys like full court press in the NBA and stuff. But Pitino, I credit him with. He turned the Knicks, obviously with Patrick Ewing, but he turned them into a respectable powerhouse franchise that was under Patino.

[Max]

Can we get Rick Pitino on the show?

[Rich]

We should.

[Max]

Because two things we have to do. We got to get him on the show. But I want to go to dinner at a New York Italian restaurant with Patino.

[Rich]

With Patino. Oh, you want the treatment?

[Max]

I just want to get a nice. You know, I just wanted to order everything on the menu. And I sit there with my napkin in my shirt. Sit there, have A nice bottle of red and talk basketball.

[Rich]

You know what? I brought this up at a previous show that we did, but when they got blown. This was only like, a month ago or something like that. When they got blown out by UConn, they got blown out like UConn. To me, after watching that game. These are two different categories. They shouldn't even be playing each other. UConn's so much better. I looked at Pitino's face after that game, and I was like, if I'm UConn, I don't know if I'd want to play them again. Right. Like, because that dude is going to do everything in his power to get back from that. And they almost did to UConn in the Big east final what UConn had done to them only a couple weeks before, and now they're in the sweet 16. Like, just. But my mind goes back to the look on Pitino's face after the loss to UConn.

[Max]

Yeah. Do you think some coaches are only meant for college?

[Rich]

Oh, he was successful in the NBA, but he is a perfect college coach.

[Max]

I'm just saying. Do you think some coaches are only meant for college football?

[Rich]

Yeah, probably.

[Max]

Probably because I can't see, like, they've been. I guess because they've been in college so long, I can see Izzo in the NBA. I can't see really, Cal in the NBA.

[Rich]

Even though, I mean, you would think that a good coach is a good coach, but you have to develop certain habits depending on who you're dealing.

[Max]

It's also so different. It's just a different time in the athlete's journey that that person, who they are coaching in that moment is for the college game.

[Rich]

Do you think the NIL has. Am I. So for. For a while, the women's game in college got really, really good because there was no money in the WNBA and there's all this money in the women's game in college, and it got really good. That may change now because there is going to be money in the wnba.

[Max]

Yes. But there's a rule they can't leave as early as the day. Right.

[Rich]

Sure. But who knows what's going to happen with that change?

[Max]

They could change it. Yeah.

[Rich]

Do you think that's one of the reasons it feels to me that the men's game is getting more interesting because NIL money can keep guys around longer.

[Max]

Oh, that's a good point.

[Rich]

In the men's game.

[Max]

That's a good point. I always thought that the men's college game is where you Actually develop your stardom.

[Rich]

Right.

[Max]

That's where you know Duncan, AI, Kerry, Kittles Marbury, you know, the dosa, Grant Hill teams.

[Rich]

Grant Hill, Michael Jordan, these guys were staying years.

[Max]

Yeah, because, because this stage we get to see you fail, then we get to see you come back again. Maybe you succeed, you got, you got two bites of the apple. You have the tournament championship. Do you go right into March Madness when Randolph Childress did the crossover and then told him to get up? That was in the ACC tournament, that wasn't in the March, March Madness. So. But to answer your question, I do think that it could play a role in it for sure. Because like, if I'm gonna be, if I'm 20 to 30 in the draft,

[Rich]

you might make more money staying in school.

[Max]

If a team's like, you know what, we're gonna pay you $8 million to come back to school for one year and you know, next year I can still get drafted.

[Rich]

And it's a star making machine.

[Max]

Yeah. Because the hard part with all these young players coming into the league is you're really coming into a very crowded space. And what's happening now, you're seeing this with guys, teams are signing guys that they are investing in and developing. You've seen Detroit do it with Jenkins, you've seen Milwaukee do it with Rollins, you just saw the kid Kane down in Orlando get converted. Teams are starting to convert these guys. Because the tough part about the NBA is it all has to line up perfectly. Like you have to get drafted and be at a place in your development to where you're showing promise and get an opportunity.

[Rich]

And then we talked about some guys wanting to go back to college.

[Max]

Yeah, but it was no NIH because

[Rich]

if you're going to be a 2A contractor for that, you could make money in college.

[Max]

But there was no nil then and you just took the swing.

[Rich]

But no, I mean now.

[Max]

Oh, now. Yeah, but there's also guys that's just late. Some guys just bloom lately.

[Rich]

Everyone doesn't develop at the same pace.

[Max]

Yeah, but here's the thing. If a guy is 6 7-6-869, athletic, learn how to play a star in a role, and he just happens to bloom late. That's a very dangerous guy. But you know why? Because that guy is getting it. And because he's a late bloomer, I may not have to pay him 15 or 25 million dollars a year. I may have to pay him 6, but that's 6 for him who's been on this journey. And I'm Getting the opportunity is like 20. So the NBA is a. If you're not ready, you might as

[Rich]

well stay in college.

[Max]

Stay in college.

[Rich]

It's not like the old days where I agree with that. Stay in college. But I'm risking multi millions by doing this. What if I get hurt nowadays? No, you might be actually making similar or more money in college temporarily and getting developed and putting yourself in a better position.

[Max]

Here's the thing. When you get to the NBA, you go from a guy that was playing a lot to not playing at all.

[Rich]

Yeah. Depending on who you are.

[Max]

And that could affect your confidence. Right. And then you start picking up bad habits, et cetera. It takes a. It's a mental, mental, mental strain on you in a major way. So if you can continue to develop and get paid but also have the opportunity to play because the best development is actually playing.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

If you can do that for two, three years.

[Rich]

This is going. By the way, this is going on with the Yankees right now. We'll talk about that on Wednesday because it'll be opening night that night. But Spencer, they have this Spencer Jones, this big like left handed Aaron Judge prospect who they can't find that bats for. He's going to wind up in AAA again because they want to play them. You know, they want them to get the experience. Game over is brought to you by FanDuel basketball fans. The NBA season is not over yet and FanDuel is giving everyone a chance to hit the court with their latest offer. Right now, new customers can score up to $300 back in bonus bets every day for 10 days. From NBA bets that don't win. It's 10 days of second chances. FanDuel is the best place to bet your favorite NBA players. Build the same game parlay or try live betting. And FanDuel is now live in Arkansas. Visit FanDuel.com gameover to join today. Everyone deserves a second chance at greatness with FanDuel, an official partner of the NBA 21 and over in select states or 18 and over in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Bonus bets are non withdrawable and expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenetic. This episode's brought to you by ZipRecruiter. It feels like hiring can take an absurd amount of time and effort, right? Like trying to get drafted into the big leagues or spending months years training to build up your speed and strength and agility. Or you know how some commercial breaks feel like they take forever. The hiring process can feel just as agonizing. But good news for you, when it comes to hiring, you have the equivalent of a fast forward button. You have ZipRecruiter. Try it free at ZipRecruiter.com/game over. ZipRecruiter is ranked the number one hiring site based on G2, most likely because ZipRecruiter is so good at what it does. You can find qualified candidates for your role in minutes. And if one really stands out, you can get access to their contact info. To reach out and connect, use ZipRecruiter and save time hiring. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate. Listen to this. Within the first day. And if you go to ziprecruiter.com gameover right now, you can try it for free. It's the best price there is. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com gameover zip recruiter the smartest way to hire I see here. Get rich quick. Today I was curious about this, but I didn't want to ask you. I wanted to be surprised.

[Max]

You know, you really got to decide two things. Who you want to create moments with and who you want to create memories with. And there's a difference between the two.

[Rich]

Wait, moments become the memories?

[Max]

Not really.

[Rich]

So you're talking about like. Like in. In. In. In. Like with your partner. Life partner. Right.

[Max]

Life partner, friends, et cetera. Like you can have.

[Rich]

What's the difference between moments and. Because they become memories.

[Max]

Nah. No, they don't. Every moment don't become a memory.

[Rich]

Okay, go ahead.

[Max]

There's moments, all right. And you know, you have that moment. Boom. And. And it goes away. It's like a grilled cheese.

[Rich]

It's not. It's significant enough to get filed away as a memory, but it's still a good experience.

[Max]

Yeah, it's a good experience for that.

[Rich]

That's actually a good distinction.

[Max]

Yeah, for that moment. But then who you create memories with is different. Like, I may have a conversation with you for the moment. That'll mean I want to go to dinner with you. And we have a two hour dinner where we. And we. And we remember that. I see, like me and Dean was talking about this the other day. We'll never forget this moment. I mean, this memory, this moment that became a memory. Right? But in the moment, we were just hanging out, we went to this event. Right? That was in the Moment that was not the memory. But then I'm getting in my car, he getting in his car, and he's like, let's go over here. I could have been like, you know what? No, I'm gonna go home. But because it's actually my friend, I'm like, I'm gonna go with you. Cool, we'll go. And we went and we created a memory that we would never forget.

[Rich]

Okay.

[Max]

So I just. If it's a relationship thing, it's the same. That's even a relationship thing is even more.

[Rich]

See, wait, I'm trying to understand this. So this is the way I'm interpreting it. You tell me if I'm right or wrong.

[Max]

You're wrong.

[Rich]

I'm trying to. I'm trying to help you here.

[Max]

Oh, okay.

[Rich]

So. So you can have moments with people. You have general positive association with that person. Because you know, when you have moments with them, they're good. So you. But they're not so significant that you file it away. It becomes a memory or a core memory.

[Max]

Yes. Right.

[Rich]

Let's make it easier. Positive association with the person.

[Max]

Let's make it very easy on ourselves. Yeah, let's. Attributed to dating. Okay, now you go to dating.

[Rich]

So now I don't understand. Now I'm lost. Now you just lost. I thought the difference was memories are things that you're having, interactions with people and moments with people that are so significant that they become memories. It's not just simply having a good positive association with them because you. You associate them with these good moments, even if you don't remember them all. There. That's one level of relationship. Then the higher level of relationship is that you actually remember the time you're having with them.

[Max]

Yes. Because there's moments that you fix the

[Rich]

whole thing for you.

[Max]

No, no, thank you.

[Rich]

No, nothing. All it is is I'm wrong. Before I even say it, I fixed the whole thing.

[Max]

I knew you was going to be wrong.

[Rich]

I see.

[Max]

You fixed it for yourself.

[Rich]

Okay.

[Max]

Yeah. Because there's moments that you don't remember, then there's memories that you will always remember.

[Rich]

Yes.

[Max]

See? See how I set that up for you?

[Rich]

All right.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Rich]

And you saw what happened there, right? You saw. Okay, now I got.

[Max]

Let's ask them, do they agree?

[Rich]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can email us.

[Max]

Do you guys agree that there's a difference between moments and memories? How about that?

[Rich]

So, okay, I want to get into this 5 minute max rich on the Lakers, and this won't be five minutes and team chemistry. I can't believe What I'm seeing, this team had the issue with the team, okay? They lack some athleticism. I think that catches up with them at some point in the playoffs. There's. You can't get around that. But when I looked at the starting five, I thought, if everyone, as you say, stars in their role, this should be a dangerous team. There was no buy in. This was not a connected team. They were. They. It did. It looked like the anti chemistry team to me. And probably I should take credit for this. Rich, for finally criticizing.

[Max]

Here we go. I knew it.

[Rich]

But honestly, you should have on.

[Max]

You should have on sometimes. No.

[Rich]

Yes, you should have on.

[Max]

Yeah, A jersey. You got the wrong basketball uniform.

[Rich]

All right, what is it?

[Max]

You should have a full Lakers uniform on.

[Rich]

I'm being okay. Good for the Lakers. I'm pro Lakers.

[Max]

Shit. Yeah.

[Rich]

All right.

[Max]

I'm good. No, you're not. You're not pro anything.

[Rich]

Why not?

[Max]

You're a hater.

[Rich]

I'm a hater. I'm giving them credit for chemistry.

[Max]

You've been hating all year.

[Rich]

I've been accurately describing what's happening when they didn't have chemistry because, you know, a fish rots from the head down. And jj, I thought, was doing a really good job. I thought Luca was complaining to the refs. But it's not simply an issue of being a crybaby. It's because if you are not in shape, in the shape you need to be in to lead a team, when you complain to the refs, what are you not doing? You're not getting back on defense. And I think that's what it was really about.

[Max]

Did you see they rescinded the technical file? I did.

[Rich]

I'll get to that. Luka wasn't bought in fully. The complaints were a way to stop. He didn't have to hustle down to play defense. When your leader is doing that stuff all the time, it's demoralizing at a certain point. J.J. redick, who had been coaching excellently all year, he was winning games and had them with a good record when either LeBron was out or AR was out or Luka was out, or two of them were out, and yet they were still winning somehow. So you have to credit jj, who I've worked with at ESPN and can tell you from firsthand experience, he's smart, he's super competitive. He has. He paid. He's real attention to detail. But that. All those things don't make you a top coach. You have to have a sense of the pulse of the team, Max. Yeah.

[Max]

You Said they were a better team without LeBron.

[Rich]

This is a five minute max.

[Max]

I know, but you said they were a better team without LeBron.

[Rich]

Max.

[Max]

Huh? You said they were a better team without LeBron.

[Rich]

I was. They were for a while. LeBron was still figuring it out. I'll get to that too. So JJ at a certain point, got in Lucas face publicly.

[Max]

He.

[Rich]

And we talked about it at the time, he got in Luca's face publicly. And at that post that moment, Luka stopped complaining on every call and he started running back on defense. And then the offense, also with offense is always good, but it got better. Even he went on this bender, right? And maybe part of that is, hey, Luka has one more tech and he gets suspended. He wants to avoid that. Whatever it was, J.J. hit the right button at the right time. And then LeBron had some time to watch in street clothes. And I think LeBron, like, you saw this in Miami, you saw it in Cleveland early in the season. He's figuring things out, right? He's all the input, right? All the data is coming in and he's figuring it out. And at a certain point he's like, okay, got it. Boom.

[Max]

Right?

[Rich]

Because sky high IQ. So LeBron was able to view this team from a distance, and Luka started actually leading the team. And what happened? Deandre Ayton comes out after that stupid comment about they want me to be Clint Capella. Deandre Ayton says a couple weeks later, I had to look in the mirror and say, I'm not that guy on this team. I need to do all the dirty work. I need to do X, Y and Z. And he bought in. Then LeBron comes back, he sees what he needs to do now and he does it. But I think it all starts with Luka. And even before that, jj, who deserves enormous credit to be the coach of a team with awful chemistry and to know how to navigate it so you still have a winning record, do all those things, but then also at the right time, push the right button, where now it's like, chemistry team is amazing. He should be in the coach of the year conversation. To me, that's my five minute max. See, I hit LeBron. No, I hit LeBron. I did something about LeBron.

[Max]

Here's what I'll say. No, I thought that was good. I thought that was well thought out. And look, I think when you are trying to be a really good team, it starts with buy in, especially when you have the names that they have on the team. You got Luke. And LeBron starts with buy in. Right. Then when you add a budding young player that also has a big hand on the production and the impact of the game, Austin Reeves, in a guy like ar. Right. So you have to figure out balance and chemistry and moments within the game. When you don't start the season whole in training camp, that's automatically going to do something to you. So in LJ's case, he didn't start the season. Right. And so now you, you know, you're. You get off to a good start, you're trying to figure it out. It's also important to block out the outside noise because anything that happens with a marquee team, whether it's Boston, New York, the Lakers, the Bulls, et cetera, in terms of marquee markets, you're going to have loud noise from the media, especially the Lakers. Yeah. But with that being said, it's even more noise because you have all these ideas of, oh, well, you know, this person has to come back and he has to, you know, play the back and play the front and decide and blah, blah, blah. And so once you get rid of all of that and you can focus on us. Right. And you start to figure things out. Health is important.

[Rich]

Right. That's a great. By the way, that's a great point. They were underwater with all the metrics when the big three played together, like when you added LeBron. But over time, class tells over time. So the larger the sample size, the more that's gonna rise to what it's actually supposed to be. And they hadn't been all together and now they are.

[Max]

Yeah, but then you start to figure out, okay, here's moments in the game that this actually works. JJ's figuring out, okay, here's times to where, okay, I can play these two together. I could play these two together. I got to come back with all three, you know, because again, every game is different. A guy may be in foul trouble, a guy benches, I have it going. A guy may just be getting back into the lineup. So I never get too high or too low about any of these things. I disagree with a lot of things, especially I disagree. You did.

[Rich]

I like to swing wildly from high to low, depending on what I just said.

[Max]

I put something on you that you actually did not say, but I was doing what the rest of the world does to you. And they say you said things that you didn't say.

[Rich]

Yeah, it happens all the time.

[Max]

Yeah, but you didn't really say that they were better. LeBron, you didn't.

[Rich]

No, I didn't say That I didn't.

[Max]

You said currently they are playing better. And so that's going to.

[Rich]

Because they were like plus a million without them and then minus a million with them.

[Max]

But I don't think there's any team in the world that's ever been created.

[Rich]

They're going to be. That's why I was flabbergasted by. I couldn't understand it.

[Max]

Yeah. But I do think it takes buy in from all, and I do think it takes some level setting.

[Rich]

When LeBron first. So. So what I look for with chemistry, it's not just that everyone feels good. It's that they play with confidence and preparedness, where they don't have to stop and think before they do the next thing. I see this in boxing all the time. You see a guy who's really athletic, he's a good fighter, but he doesn't have a deep amateur background. That slows him up because the muscle memory is not the same. Right. So he has to think through everything. And now there's a little hesitation versus a guy where it's autumn. You ever see Floyd, you know, hit the pads and also, like, avoid shots and he's looking at the hits. All automatic. Right. LeBron, when he first got to Miami, was trying to figure out how to coexist with Wade, and it was Wade's team. And there was this little hesitation as a result.

[Max]

Well, that's just called respect, but it can interfere.

[Rich]

And what I saw. Cause we went. You took me to. We sat in your seats at the Lakers Celtics game when they honored Pat Riley. And you could see throughout that game, there was this little hesitation with LeBron where he would pass up a good shot, he'd wind up taking a lower percentage. 1. Right. That does not happen to LeBron James. It happens to role players who don't know what they're doing, because he was trying to figure out how to give the team to, like, how to, you know, defer to Luka because it's. The offense works around him. But it was being kind of overly deferential at times, where no LeBron take that shot. That's a good shot. It took a little while for him to figure that stuff out, but where now it's automatic and they're just playing.

[Max]

And I think when you see a lot of these shows, people. People talk in his manners, if it's a negative thing or it's like, well, we know whose team it is or it was or what. It's not. It's not about any of that. It's what it is about is this is what it's going to take for this team to win. Do we have buy in? Forget the names on the back of the jerseys. Do we have buy in? And if we have buy in, we can work from there. Now you start to develop, okay, who can impact us the most? Obviously it's going to be a younger guy with less than 23 years and 999 million miles on his body and career. So that's.

[Rich]

Luke has been so good since he stopped complaining that, that he is in the MVP conversation.

[Max]

It also helps for shots to fall. But then you start to figure other things out, right? And you start to build confidence. I always say the regular season is to build confidence for the playoffs amongst the role players. Because you're going to. Because here's the thing. When a team schemes, they're not scheming for Max and Rich, right? They're scheming for.

[Rich]

Well, Rich is one of the best shooters ever. So they may scheme for.

[Max]

No, no, no, they're not going to scheme for me.

[Rich]

Because someone's gonna get you the ball while you're open.

[Max]

Yeah, I mean, I'm a swing swing type of guy. Wide open.

[Rich]

I can't dribble.

[Max]

Max, no, you will not hit the free throws. Here's what you will do. You will. You know, like when the coach calls, they say, okay, Rich, get in. You're the guy that says, rich, get in. Because I didn't hear him because I was all the way down. That's your role.

[Rich]

That's true.

[Max]

That's your role. Yes. Star in that role.

[Rich]

Star in the role.

[Max]

Start in that role.

[Rich]

Max, you wanna do some emails?

[Max]

Sure. But wait a minute. We missing some things.

[Rich]

I mean, we got a lot of stuff we could still do.

[Max]

No, but here's the thing. The Celtics yesterday and Timberwolves played. Timberwolves won with no ant.

[Rich]

With no ant. That was big.

[Max]

They look good. They look good. But I still think the Celtics just. That's one loss. Whatever the Pistons, Cade's injury.

[Rich]

Yeah, that's a kill.

[Max]

That's just a tough one, man.

[Rich]

And they don't have the kind of team that. I mean, Duran's good and everything, but they don't have. He's not. He needs someone to get him the ball.

[Max]

And the thing that hurts this more than anything is the guy's having all NBA year and now you miss it because of the rules. That's just a tough one. That's just.

[Rich]

I love watching Cade play.

[Max]

Yeah, he's great.

[Rich]

From a bygone era big guard can

[Max]

do everything just great. I mean, then there's his idea. You saw the comments of former players saying we don't have enough talent for the expansion.

[Rich]

Oh, for the expansion. What?

[Max]

Yeah, I think Tracy McGregor worldwide. Well, well, here's the thing. I'm not going to get on them for saying that because you have to talk to people and get their context. What they could be saying is from their lens. And these are all hall of Fame players. Right. Okay. With how guys are playing the game today is expanding just giving us more of a bad product on the floor night in and night out.

[Rich]

Oh, that's a different argument.

[Max]

But. But that's the only argument within this.

[Rich]

But that argument, think about how what that reduces to the absurd reduction. Right? Like take that to. Or. Or take it to its extreme logical conclusion. What they're saying is the NBA product, the way it's presently played, is not good, therefore you don't want more of it. They that. Okay, that. That suggests you need to fix the product. I don't think that has to do with not having players who can execute.

[Max]

No, I think you can still do both. I think you can expand. But I don't think they're wrong in saying, hey guys, we have to pay attention. We can't just get on. We can't just get on platforms and say every ex player don't know what they talking about. Of course we can't do that. What I will say is sometimes you say things and it may not be position or it may not be said how you meant to say it, but

[Rich]

you can understand why people are cynical of the X players. Because every generation, you and I do this when we talk about social media. Our parents did this when they talked about tv, their parents did that, or their grandparents when they talked about radio. Right. It's all always the same thing. New technology comes out, the world changes. And the old generation, not all of them, some of them look back and go, man, these guys are better than we were. But most of them will complain about how it wasn't as good as it was in their day. So people are cynical.

[Max]

I mean, look, I've been on the other end. All the ex players came out and said, rich shouldn't have a podcast. And I'm like, well, neither should you because it's not like you. You know, you had a podcast. You didn't get in the hall of fame of podcasters. You're in the hall of fame of basketball players. So I get that part. But what I'm saying Is still. I still will listen to them because they played the game and I didn't.

[Rich]

You? Of course.

[Max]

Yeah. Right. So in that case, I think two things could be done. I think yes, they can ring the alarm and we have to pay attention to them saying, hey guys, we have to make our game better. I don't think it starts at the NBA level. I think it starts at the youth level. But also expanding is not a bad thing. And obviously the owners are going to vote when on the 24th or 25th, whatever it is, they're going to vote and we'll see what happens.

[Rich]

Actually, in terms of the talent, I think it is more easy to expand now and keep good. Listen, you can complain about front offices making the wrong moves, but there's more talent now in the game than ever. I always think of a guy like Mikhail Bridges, even if he's fallen off a little the last couple years. A guy like Bridges when he's on the net Suddenly is a 20 point scorer who's playing defense. The whole thing. There are so many guys like that in the league now that could actually be. It's not going to be a team with a great record, but could be a 20 point plus scorer, could be the second best player on a decent team, a lot of guys.

[Max]

But Max, there's a difference between talent and know how and when talent actually has know how that makes a really great.

[Rich]

Sure.

[Max]

Right. So I think yes, there's a ton of talent, but there isn't a ton of know how.

[Rich]

If the college game, as we were discussing earlier, gets stronger, if guys stay in school longer because of nil, right. Of the success of mid majors, whatever with three or four guys who, who've stayed multiple years because they weren't ready to for the draft in year one. If that happens and the college game gets more, you know, players get more entrenched in the college game, then we get more players with no how.

[Max]

But even with that, Max, we have to. You have to go back to the word we just used or the term buy in. Still, if you're going back to college from nil perspective, it's two things. And this is why the coaches, this is why the coaches of not old, the legendary coaches in college, they kind of get upset and, and it's like because now we're paying you this money, but two things happen. The money either doesn't matter or it's the only thing that matters. Because if the money is the only thing that matters, I can't coach you. So how, how can you develop it you're not buying in, you're coming in here with entitlement, you half assing it the whole way. Right. But I gotta play you because we spent all this money on you. That doesn't feel good either. So I think again, it goes back to the person that possesses the talent. And are they going to be willing to be coached? Are they going to be willing to be developed? Are they going to be willing to

[Rich]

have back to the college game again? The more the college game comes up, the better we're going to have those guys come up.

[Max]

But even before that, I think we have to start from the youth perspective because they should get to college and understand that NIL isn't for me to then push back on everything that's being poured into me to become a better player. It's a business, right? So Nil should be looked at totally different. Nil should be looked at as, okay, this is money for me to pour the concrete that positions the foundation for

[Rich]

the rest of your career, for the

[Max]

house that I'm trying to build and how I pour that concrete. Buy in habits, development, the right financial people, better understanding my finances now, not just going out and spending, you know, all my money on Chrome Hearts or Balenciaga or whatever you want to call it. Obviously you want to have some of it because you, you know, you want to get back. Yeah, but I'm not gonna oc. I'm not gonna over Chrome. Right. And I think that from there now you can decide based upon my game and my production if I'm gonna have a little efficiency or if I'm gonna be able to be able to match.

[Rich]

But my point, right, I get it. And the stronger the college game is, the better it is for the pros.

[Max]

Yes, 100%.

[Rich]

Seems to me that nil will lead to a stronger college foundation simply because whatever other forces are at play in terms of incentives, why they're staying in colleges and that you will have kids staying more years. Therefore, they're exposed to more chance, Right?

[Max]

Better chance of a better foundation. This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Spring is starting, so it's time to wake up your yard. And at the Home Depot, they've got everything you need to do it. With low prices, guaranteed, mowing your lawn is a dream. With top brand outdoor power tools like the Ryobi 40 volt mower with up to 50 minutes of runtime, you can add a pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants and refresh your garden beds with earth. Grow mulch, five bags for just $10. Start your spring with low prices now through April 1st. Available at the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. See home depot.com pricematch for details. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details.

[Rich]

I want one little NFL thing in here before. Before we go on to emails. Why one Jackson, Smith and Jigba just signed a record extension. Four years, 168.6 million. It's the high. Now he's the highest paid wide receiver in NFL history. That's not a surprise. Whoever's an elite. Whoever's elite at their position who comes up in their prime for a contract will usually reset the all time market. And JSN is arguably the best receiver in football. He's certainly top three to five. Right? There's no arguing that he's top three to five. So he came up and there it is.

[Max]

Max. What college did he go to?

[Rich]

Had to be Ohio if you're asking Ohio. The Ohio State University.

[Max]

Thank you. The Ohio State. Thank you. Yes, he did.

[Rich]

Thank you.

[Max]

That's all.

[Rich]

I've learned that lesson all. Don't even think about it. Just say the Ohio State University. Buckeye. You wanna do emails?

[Max]

Let's do some.

[Rich]

Or no, no. You know, before we do. You're an agent. Let. Let me.

[Max]

How does that. I'm not right now.

[Rich]

I understand. But put on your agent hat for a second. You have a guy like JSN who comes up. What's that like when you know I have one of the absolute elite guys of the position. He's in his prime and his contract is up.

[Max]

Well, there's also a couple other things. Yeah, that. That's. Listen, you're ending high. Everyone's happy. I think the Seahawks they paid some people, they paid Charles Cross and now they playing Jackson. They paid one other person too on the defense, I think. But the running back went to the Chiefs, Kobe Bryant went to the Bears. So they managed the money in a way in which allowed them to pay

[Rich]

this smart team never pay the running back. Yeah, well unfortunately for running back there should be an exemption.

[Max]

Don't speak for the Atlanta Falcons. Yeah, they got to pay that running back yeah, I'm just.

[Rich]

There's some running backs.

[Max]

Who. There's some running backs. Yeah.

[Rich]

McCaffrey got paid, you know, Saquon got paid in Philadelphia.

[Max]

So. Yeah. This doesn't, again, this doesn't surprise me. But to answer your question, no, I mean this is a perfect, it's a perfect opportunity for representation. My guy played well all year. I'm pretty sure he played through injuries.

[Rich]

If you're in that position, you cannot not have the highest contract ever. Right. Like if you're the agent and you got JSN in his prime, just won a Super bowl, absolutely elite. Everyone wants him. If you're the agent and you don't come back with the record setting deal. Right. Then you mess up.

[Max]

Yeah, I mean you, essentially you would think that, I mean, but so in

[Rich]

a way it's bad for an agent because you're in a no win position.

[Max]

You gotta get the. But sometimes though, I'm telling you, other

[Rich]

than the money you get coming in,

[Max]

no, but sometimes it depends on the player because sometimes the players looking back and you've had conversation with the team and the player and the team goes, well, if we pay you this, then we won't be able to do this. This, this happens a lot in football. Now I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but it happens a lot.

[Rich]

But that's not as a free agent. That's once you already have your contract, they come to you, they want to restructure, which you get a big payment.

[Max]

No, you get more money. No, I'm talking about when you're doing a new deal, not a restructure.

[Rich]

New deal. You haven't hit that first mega contract yet.

[Max]

New deal. Yes.

[Rich]

They could kick rocks, give me my dough.

[Max]

No, but I'm saying it may be, it may be 2 million off.

[Rich]

Right?

[Max]

Not like a, not like 20 million off.

[Rich]

Right? Right.

[Max]

And the guy is like, well, you

[Rich]

know what, I want to be on a good team.

[Max]

But the point is it doesn't make him the highest. Okay, he may be even or $100,000.

[Rich]

JSN is the highest.

[Max]

He's the highest by 2 million. I think he's at 42, which, and

[Rich]

listen, Puka is coming up too, and he's going to want a lot of money.

[Max]

But see, here's where. So would you say that he's better than Jamar Chase or Justin Jefferson?

[Rich]

Who's he? Who do you mean by he?

[Max]

Jsx.

[Rich]

So here's the thing.

[Max]

JSN is now you saying jxs, you got me thinking about this?

[Rich]

Yeah, the plane. You mean Jax N. Jax N. Yes. He is the one that everyone wants. Because a guy like Puka, who's great, or Justin Jefferson, who's great, there's something about that kind of receiver that you just never quite believe can be as good as like Jamar Ch, like the more explosive athletic receiver. Look what's going on with the Eagles right now. Yeah, A.J. brown, you 5050 ball guy, really good. But we can get that from the tight end and we're going to pay the guy who just runs fast. You know, he does a lot of other things well too, but he's actually fast. I think those guys and JSN has everything. He has everything you want in a receiver.

[Max]

Yes, he does. See, I asked you that purposely, but here's how I look at it. I think I never compare. It don't matter. The only thing that matters is what is the opportunity cost of the Seahawks losing this player. Yeah, that is his. Whatever that is, that's his value. It don't matter. Yeah, it don't matter.

[Rich]

In JSN's case, infinity dollars.

[Max]

So in that case, he deserves to be the highest paid.

[Rich]

All right, you ready to do emails?

[Max]

Sure.

[Rich]

Finn from New York shout out to you guys for giving us such a quality product.

[Max]

Thank you, Finn. You know what? Let's give Finn his flowers.

[Rich]

No, he's giving us his. Our flowers.

[Max]

No, but I want to give him

[Rich]

flowers back for recognizing.

[Max]

Yes.

[Rich]

All right, Finn, get all your friends to watch. What are you doing? Finn, don't get lazy. If you're really appreciative, don't tell us.

[Max]

Get everyone they flowers. That's what's wrong with you.

[Rich]

How do you both feel about the 2020s music game? Are you listening to anything new or do you prefer to stick to the classics? How do you feel about some of the classic hip hop artists comebacks in the 2010s and 20s? The latest clips and Nas albums, for example, were excellent.

[Max]

Let me speak as the non hater of the show. I'm not a hater in the hip hop. I feel like you're gonna. Cause you didn't even know that a train was going to San Diego.

[Rich]

You damn sure never been on a train in la. I won't lie.

[Max]

Right, but. So you're not gonna know who's.

[Rich]

I didn't know they had trains in la. I lived here for six years now.

[Max]

Max being his bag with the music. What I think about it, you know, when you grow up in our generation, we had. It's unfair because we grew up in the golden era of music.

[Rich]

I didn't quite grow up in it, but I would say by the time I would say the golden era of hip hop, at least hip hop was mid-90s, mid-90s was. And I was already an adult by then.

[Max]

He was 34.

[Rich]

So it's not like I'm claiming that it's not. I was born in 73. It's not like I'm claiming that the music I grew up on was the best in hip hop. I'm saying when I was in my early 20s, it was at its best.

[Max]

Early 20s, right. It was at its best. It's some talent out there. I do think the ability to wake up out of bed and not have to go through the rigmarole to try to get an opportunity is what I'm most excited about for music, artists, artists today because they have the platforms so the talent could be discovered. Versus. I used to go to Def Jam. This is in the early 2000s. I would. We would go to Def Jam. Every time I was in New York, I would go to Def Jam.

[Rich]

Listen, you play. I didn't even know you were in the hip hop game like that. I had a record deal. I didn't know.

[Max]

Yes.

[Rich]

You played me some stuff that was.

[Max]

I know, yeah. Yes.

[Rich]

Heard some. Heard some beats, heard some MCs. They were official.

[Max]

I thought I was going to be at A and R, right? But listen, I used to go, and I used to always go to Def Jam. This was when Kevin and Lior was still there. Then when Jay took over and you would come out of Def Jam and you would see people standing outside of Def Jam with, you know, demo tapes, basically. Yeah. Do you know how hard that is?

[Rich]

Remember the EPMD song? Please, Please listen to my demo.

[Max]

Because think about it.

[Rich]

Please listen to my demo. Great song. But like, you're begging people to listen to your demo.

[Max]

The car used to. It was like, you go down. You know, in New York, every street is one way. So you go down to come up, you got to turn and it drop you off right in front of the doorway. So when, you know, if these guys, Jay or Kevin Lyles or, you know, Michael Kaiser's coming out of the office, they're beelining to a car. The last thing they want to do,

[Rich]

right, is hear your elevator pitch, right?

[Max]

That was for. Now, if Lenny S or somebody brought them an actual tape, then, yeah, they're going to listen to it because they trust the ear. But that's pretty hard to do.

[Rich]

So different now.

[Max]

Yeah. It's different now. So that is what I'm most impressed with. You know, production and things like that.

[Rich]

Every era is similar to every other era in the sense that you will find great songs and you'll find a lot of garbage. Right? And that's true in any era, even the golden era. There's a lot of bad stuff. The reason old timers look back at past eras more favorably. I mean, I agree mid-90s was my favorite, but generally people look back at the old days because they edit out all the garbage and they remember the classics. And so it feels in our memory like everything was a classic.

[Max]

Man, let me tell you something. I had some great moments in music and I'm trying to remember. I'm trying to remember something right quick

[Rich]

while you're doing that. Oh yeah, the next email hey Max and Rich, Alex Nazarov from Los Angeles. With all this talk of the best duos in the NBA and with stats showing how great Jokic and Murray work together, is it safe to say that Wemby and Castle are now the best duos based on how they're working together and beating everyone? And if, if they win this year, can we start putting them in the history books as top 10 best duos? Before we even get to that, I got to address this. It reminds me so Michelle Beetle and Chandler Parsons and this is why I said and yeah you said the wrong thing about LJ and Lou will have a show.

[Max]

Great show.

[Rich]

I like Beetle. That's my homegirl. This says some aggregate, some like website that I said that one of the best or the best duo ever was Jokic and Murray. And so of course it's a straw man. Everyone on the show jumps. Oh Max, come on. You know they haven't done it enough yet. I just want to be very clear about this. I never said Jokic and Murray were the best duo ever. What I said was I couldn't remember another duo where they assisted to each other so much. The lead assist one to another in the league is Murray to Jokic. He has more. Murray has more assists to Jokic than any player has to any other player in the league. The fourth most in the league is Jokic to Murray. I don't think that's ever happened before. Okay, that's what I said. We had our top five duos of all time.

[Max]

We did.

[Rich]

I said Jordan, Pippen, Magic and Kareem. Shaq and Kobe. Not in this order. Shaq and ko. Just here are the five. Shaq and Kobe, Durant and Steph Durant And Steph and Bird and McHale. Right. Those are my top five duos. What about Duncan and Parker? I said, well, that's really Ginobili. It's a trio.

[Max]

Yes, you do.

[Rich]

I'm talking about just duos. I never had Jokic and Murray in that duo.

[Max]

But do you know how dangerous aggregation is?

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

Just like today Sam Amick wrote an article or. And I didn't see it. Somebody sent it to me and it had teams listed about LJ descendant. I'm like, and I know Sam's a real professional. He probably wrote an article and I didn't read it. So maybe he did. Maybe. And it was aggregated, I imagine, for this stuff to come out. And it listed teams and this and that. And I'm just like, why? I don't even. I don't even know what's going on. So if I don't know, how could a reporter know or anybody else know? But they have to do their job and. But it's just the aggregation.

[Rich]

The aggregations get set up as mass. By the way, Michelle, my own peoples

[Max]

happened to us said that.

[Rich]

I said things that I didn't know.

[Max]

It happened to us week one. The aggregation that happened to us week one. Now I'm not.

[Rich]

Yeah, everyone started aggregating us right away. It happened week one aggravating us. Right.

[Max]

And it got totally aggravated. It was totally wrong, but it got his viewership. So.

[Rich]

But by the way, speaking of Wemby and Castle, I wonder like, because when I think of Duncan, Duncan as an individual and supporting that I know Wemby, even if they win multiple championships, is Castle going to be enough better than Harper and Fox and these guys that he will be considered a one, two punch with Wemby or is it going to be Wemby and great supporting Cash? Well, it dep well, like it was Duncan and great supporting cats.

[Max]

But I will say this. I don't know about better than this. He's going to be extreme. It's not going to be he. Castle right now the floor is super

[Rich]

high, is extremely great defender good.

[Max]

And his jump shot is going to continue to get better. He is a big guard, super consistent. He's a big guard. But the only reason why I said that is because it's normally point guard and big. But now that I think about it more Castle, he initiates the offense a lot too.

[Rich]

Castle's, they run a different type of look.

[Max]

Look set.

[Rich]

Jordan played with not just Pippen but Grant at first and then Rodman later and Rodman especially, I think is one of the greatest players ever. And even though he didn't score a lot. But it's not. No one thinks of it as a trio because Pippen was clearly the second best player on the team. That's Jordan Pippen.

[Max]

But I don't think you could do. I don't think that was necessarily right in terms of. I know you like to do that.

[Rich]

I think it is.

[Max]

I think Pippen.

[Rich]

Jordan and Pippen were clearly battling. Of course, there was no one close to Kobe and Shaq on that team. And they were. Had a lot of good supporting players. There was no one as great as Worthy was at the best. It was Magic and Kareem. As good as Robert Parish was, Dennis Johnson was still good as Bird and McHale.

[Max]

I guarantee you, if you talk to the Detroit Pistons that played that Lakers team, those guys will say, say what you want. Yes, Magic, Kareem, but Worthy.

[Rich]

That's because that's a little later on. I'm saying.

[Max]

I'm just saying. And even look, it was just Worthy.

[Rich]

It was incredible. He's not two small forwards what Magic is to point guards.

[Max]

Yeah, no, no.

[Rich]

Or what Kareem is to centers. And he's a Hall of Famer.

[Max]

Castle man. I think he's going to be a top. Top five guard.

[Rich]

So maybe he will be the casin

[Max]

as a duo because he's. He's. He's good.

[Rich]

You want to do one more last?

[Max]

Sure. Oh. The name I was trying to think about was my man Hip Hop. So if Hip hop. Hip hop wasn't A and R, If Hip hop or Liney S brought you a tape to any of the executives at Def Jam at the time, or anybody for that matter, you listened to them. So you had to get to a guy like a Hip Hop in order to get a real opportunity in music. Back then, that's what I was. Cause I've been a part of some. Some great. I used to go in baseline.

[Rich]

It's much more wide open now.

[Max]

I used to go in one time. I was in baseline. Max, you would have loved this. I'm in baseline. It's just Blaze in the room. It's Kanye in the room. It was a. It was a thing where it was just like. I didn't know. Speaking of moments and memories. Those were. That's a memory, right? Think about it. Think about the music those two guys produce. And here I am.

[Rich]

Well, you remember it. You're telling the story. Yeah.

[Max]

And I'm eating soul food at 3 o' clock in the morning because I'M in the studio.

[Rich]

All right. You ready for the last one?

[Max]

Yeah.

[Rich]

Rob Melody Acuff. You're so right. This kid should go number one. I watched him dominate. More importantly, he wanted the ball. Complete opposite of Kansas kid. I'll call him Lil Pete. Lol. I disagree. I think Peterson imposed himself on the game in the way you want to see him impose himself. Brought his team back. Couldn't get it all the way there. But I don't think you need to dis Peterson to praise Acuff anyway. If I'm in New Orleans, get Acuff no matter what. Hope you get the number one. But even if not, trade Zion and pair this kid with Herb Jones and Murphy.

[Max]

New Orleans. New Orleans don't even have a pick.

[Rich]

Yeah. I don't know. I. I think they're saying trade Zion maybe to get a pick or something. I don't know what. I don't know what the.

[Max]

You know, I don't do the fantasy thing.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

I mean, you the only guy to get me to play fantasy basketball.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

But here's. I will say, I would say I agree with you. You don't have to diss one kid to get praise the other. Peterson's good, I think. Yeah. They're both really good. And guess what? None of us have a pick.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

The only people that have a pick is who actually the ones that gonna be picking.

[Rich]

Yeah. And also New Orleans.

[Max]

Doesn't they definitely. They don't have a pick at all.

[Rich]

Right.

[Max]

Atlanta has New Orleans pick.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Max]

For this year.

[Rich]

I. I think I agree with this.

[Max]

Did you know that, though? Did you know Atlanta had New Orleans pick. You know, as it was traded. It was traded last year for Derek in the. Derrick Queen. Derek Queen was taken for.

[Rich]

They did pretty well there.

[Max]

Yeah. I mean, can play. Yeah. You can definitely can play. But. But Atlanta has New Orleans pick for this year.

[Rich]

Right. Right. All right, so there we have it. Another thrilling episode of.

[Max]

Yeah. Game over with Matt [e-mail] continue to send emails in.

[Rich]

See, we're doing the emails every show.

[Max]

We're doing the emails.

[Rich]

We have to be consistent to show you that we're doing the emails on every show.

[Max]

Yeah, we're work in progress. I think we're doing great. Great trip. Great. We got to do another. So the next trip we have to do. We got to go get you some golf lessons, man.

[Rich]

Yeah. You want to go to the desert?

[Max]

We can go to the desert. We can go to the ocean. We can go where Wherever there's golf.

[Rich]

We can Go where there's a good golf instruction.

[Max]

We can go wherever you want to go. Yeah, Yeah.

[Rich]

I. I want to take up golf. I just don't know if I have the time for it. Like, it takes over. I see how people get addicted.

[Max]

No, but you got to go early. See, I get out the way early. You gotta go early. You gotta do a tee time at, like, if you can get it, 7:30.

[Rich]

I don't know if you were old enough to have played Tetris when it came out. Old enough to play Tetris when Tetris came out. It was so addictive that I used to. I'd be walking down the street, giving myself tetrises, like, lining it up in my head. Golf is like that. I think, like, people get obsessed with golf. You'll be doing something, and I could see it in your face. You have, like, this look, and you're really thinking about golf.

[Max]

No, it's not true.

[Rich]

Yeah, it is. Even the way you said that, everyone could tell is totally full.

[Max]

I am working on my driver.

[Rich]

You're thinking of it right now.

[Max]

But here's the thing. No, I was thinking about my. My uncle. My uncle Big D, my uncle Kevin. And he. He lived in East Cleveland when. When Tetris first came out. And we used to be at his house, like, glued to the tube because he had the Tetris. It was nothing better than a game of Tetris. Your turn on Tetris. While the cheeseburgers cooking with the home fries.

[Rich]

Now you're making me hungry.

[Max]

I'm just saying, it was nothing better than that. But yesterday, Max almost crashed coming down Sunset because Dean, man, Dean said something yesterday.

[Rich]

What?

[Max]

I literally had.

[Rich]

Can you repeat it?

[Max]

Yeah.

[Rich]

Do you remember what you said he said?

[Max]

He said, man, we was ordering APL Adam Perry Lay, which is barbecues. Great barbecue. And Dee said, man, you going to play golf? Man, you got to hurry up back. I can't wait to put the sauce on that meat.

[Rich]

See the thing? See the thing? And there's no one even around. And he's having this reaction, right? He's laughing like this in the car. Did you pause him?

[Max]

Max, who's that?

[Rich]

Nephew.

[Max]

Hold up. But, Max, I don't play pause. I don't.

[Rich]

Well, I mean, except sometimes, but that

[Max]

I'm coming down Sunset.

[Rich]

Yeah, you almost crashed the car.

[Max]

And I got real tears in my eyes. Because. No, listen.

[Rich]

Yeah, it's the problem.

[Max]

No, Max, the thing about it is, it's not just that. It was. It was d. It was de.

[Rich]

What?

[Max]

It was because.

[Rich]

Cut this off.

[Max]

It was because it was deep.

[Rich]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Max]

Oh, man.

[Rich]

I could hear him saying it, too. Yeah,

[Max]

we gotta go. We gotta go. Oh, man.

[Rich]

This is like Shaq's reaction every time Chuck says something and it cuts to Shaq. And you hear him here. You know he can't stop.

[Max]

Yeah, man, I'm coming around the curb.

[Rich]

You almost crashed the car.

[Max]

And I, like, literally, I had real tears in my eyes. And he's like, man,

[Rich]

All right, we're out of here. Email.

[Max]

I'm sorry.

[Rich]

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[Max]

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[Rich]

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[Max]

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