Jaylen vs. Luka, KAT vs. Shaq, Ant vs. Maxey, and Your Emails!

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Episode: Jaylen vs. Luka, KAT vs. Shaq, Ant vs. Maxey, and Your Emails!

Date: February 23, 2026
Podcast Host: The Ringer
Summary by Section with Timestamps

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the NBA’s biggest storylines, including the Jaylen Brown vs. Luka Dončić debate, Karl-Anthony Towns’ potential, Tyrese Maxey’s emergence against Anthony Edwards, in-depth discussion on role players, and a lively Q&A segment with listeners. Max and Rich dissect the cultural meaning of access vs. money, reminisce about legendary Lakers and Celtics teams, debate the Olympic team selection, and cap off with a passionate rant about the future of boxing promotions.

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1. Money vs. Access, Social Media & The Lakers-Celtics Game

[01:17 – 07:52] Philosophical Opener

• Access vs. Money Debate:
  • Rich Paul insists access beats money:

    "I'd rather take the access because the money can run out. And I think having access keeps you in position to always be able to get money." (Rich, 02:16)

  • Max Kellerman counters, emphasizing how most people would pick money, but acknowledges the nuanced power of access, especially in contexts like affirmative action, elite clubs, and social capital.
  • Both agree richness is internal as much as external; social media distracts from building inner life.

    "One of the reasons social media is destroying us… I used to read a book a month until the advent of social media." (Max, 05:18)

  • Social media creates pressure by showing only wins, distorts reality, and erodes attention span.

    "You only see the wins… and that's impossible." (Rich, 06:04–06:06)

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2. Iconic NBA Reflections: Pat Riley, Showtime Lakers, and Celtics

[09:15 – 16:14] Laker Nostalgia and Greatness

• Pat Riley Night Recap:
  • Rich and Max marvel at Pat Riley’s sharp mind and style at his statue unveiling.
  • Deep appreciation for the Lakers of the ’80s, including Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, McAdoo, and more.

    "If you can age like that, you’re winning." (Max, 09:48)
    "They had Magic, they had Kareem… let’s add some truffles and some caviar." (Rich, 12:05)

  • Both hosts discuss how legendary coaches like Riley bring out the best in versatile role players, e.g., Udonis Haslem.
  • Reflections on role players’ value:

    "You don't always have to be the shiny object to have longevity." (Rich, 16:14)

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3. Jaylen Brown vs. Luka Dončić: Talent, Style, and Leadership

[18:14 – 27:04] NBA Player Analysis

• Lakers-Celtics Breakdown:
  • Max and Rich disappointed in Lakers’ lack of urgency on Pat Riley night, with all-stars healthy but being outworked by a depleted Celtics squad.
  • Max critiques Luka Dončić for constant complaining and overreliance on his offensive skills:

    "Every trip down the floor, you’re complaining to the refs… Even when he hits the shot." (Max, 19:20)

  • The Counterintuitive Case for Jaylen Brown:

    "Jaylen Brown’s better than Luka… because he’s not as skilled." (Max, 19:55)

    • Brown plays the right way because he isn’t gifted with freakish talent, makes winning plays, plays in the flow, defends, and hustles.
  • How to “fix” Luka? Max says, “J.J. [Redick] is going to have to get in Luka’s face about it.”
  • Celtics’ unsung heroes: Peyton Pritchard and other role players lauded for hustle and game-changing effort.

    "They made effort plays… in order for you to beat us tonight, you’re going to have to take it." (Rich, 23:35–24:14)

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4. Dominance, Roles, and Karl-Anthony Towns vs. Shaq

[28:12 – 35:14]

• Shaq’s Critique of KAT:
  • Shaq told Towns to "be more dominant", to which KAT responded it wasn’t about ego but winning as a team.
  • Max and Rich agree Cat needs to assert his will more often, not just pile up stats.

    "He might be the best shooting big ever." (Max, 30:40)
    "Dominance is just having your will on the game." (Rich, 32:32)

  • Comparing Cat to Jokic and LeBron—players who make others better, possess both gravity and IQ.
  • Jaylen Brown's rise is contrasted with KAT’s underachievement relative to his physical gifts.

    "Jalen Brown… is a top 10 player." (Max, 34:52)

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5. Tyrese Maxey vs. Anthony Edwards & The NBA’s New Generation

[37:04 – 44:10]

• Tyrese “Must See” Maxey:
  • Rich, Maxey’s agent, gives him the new nickname “Must See Tyrese,” highlighting his electrifying play and relentless improvement.

    "The new nickname for Tyrese is Must See Tyrese." (Rich, 37:53)

  • Max notes the “slow-fast” change-of-pace in Maxey’s game, comparing it to a pitcher’s changeup.
  • Discussion on why the league has never truly had a sub-6’5” best player for long; Anthony Edwards (Ant) is incredible, but Max remains skeptical he can be “the best.”

    "The league is... up for grabs. That could change every night." (Rich, 42:18)

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6. Team USA Olympic Basketball Roster Debate

[45:13 – 52:54]

• Olympic Team Selections:
  • Cooper Flagg’s inevitable Olympian status is discussed—praise for his two-way game and maturity.

    "Cooper Flagg is… an excellent defender… What can’t he do?" (Max, 45:46)

  • Debate on which young stars make the cut: Tyrese Maxey, Anthony Edwards, Cade Cunningham, Jaylen Brown, Halliburton, Booker, Brunson, Mitchell, et al.
  • The challenge of narrowing a 24+ player pool to 12 is highlighted. Preference may be given to returning Olympians.

    "It’s Grant Hill’s job [to pick], so good luck, Grant." (Rich, 51:28)

  • Olympic team composition compared to creating a classic “all singles” hip-hop album: need stars who can also play roles.

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7. Brief: Rap Albums with No “Skips”

[54:07 – 56:55]

• Fun banter about classic hip hop albums where every track could be a single. Rich’s underrated pick:

  "Juvenile, 400 Degrees… one of the best rap albums of all time." (Rich, 56:31)

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8. Max Kellerman’s Rant: Zufa Boxing vs. Old Promoters

[57:01 – 65:49]

• Boxing’s Evolving Landscape:
  • Max launches into a passionate, historical account of U.S. boxing moving from mass media to niche to streaming, and how the new Zufa group is shaking up the landscape.
  • Criticizes established promoters (Eddie Hearn, Oscar De La Hoya) for attacking the new model, only to lose fighters the next day.

    "The game is already over. They just don’t know it." (Max, 63:39)

    • "Don’t talk a mess on a Monday and cry on a Tuesday."
  • Rich supports the new Zufa model, suggesting the rising tide will benefit even the established players if they adapt.
  • Both reinforce betting on Dana White, Nick Khan, and the changing media ecosystem in boxing.

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9. Listener Q&A: Underappreciated Players, All-Star Format, and NFL Mount Rushmore

[66:00 – 74:30] Overtime Q&A

• Underappreciated NBA Player:

  • Pascal Siakam is predicted to be more appreciated in hindsight.

    "The wise heads are going to be like: Pascal Siakam is a guy you once needed on your team." (Max, 66:31)

  • Comparison to Rick Fox, Trevor Ariza: do-it-all wings every champion needs.

• All-Star Game Twist:

  • Listener suggests U.S. vs World vs Kentucky alumni as three competitive All-Star squads.

    "Yo, Kentucky competes with the world and the U.S… that's crazy." (Max, 69:52)

• 2019 Raptors vs. History:

  • Rich and Max agree the ‘19 Raptors have been historically underrated for their balanced construction.

• Kawhi Injury’s Impact on KD Signing:

  • Both hosts agree the injury to Kawhi Leonard fundamentally shifted the NBA balance and led to KD’s move to the Warriors.

    "That's a great point." (Rich, 70:37)

• NFL Hall of Fame & Mount Rushmore:

  • Eli Manning is “definitely” a Hall of Famer.
  • NFL's "Mount Rushmore" according to Max: Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Lawrence Taylor, and likely Jim Brown.

• U.S. Hockey and Cleveland Pride:

  • Shoutout to Lailah Edwards, first Black American woman to win gold in women’s hockey.

• LeBron James 43,000-point milestone:

  • The significance of LeBron's all-time scoring (regular + postseason) is honored.

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Memorable Quotes

• "But money, in my opinion, is also a mindset. How are you thinking? If your mind is poor, then you’re actually pretty broke." (Rich Paul, 05:03)
• “Jaylen Brown is better than Luka Dončić. And the reason is partly because he’s not as skilled.” (Max Kellerman, 19:55)
• “The new nickname for Tyrese is Must See Tyrese.” (Rich Paul, 37:53)
• "The game is already over. They just don’t know it." (Max Kellerman, 63:39)
• [on all-star team construction] “You have to star in your role amongst the stars.” (Rich Paul, 46:39)

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Timestamps: Quick Reference

• [01:17] Access vs. Money, Social Media
• [09:15] Lakers/Celtics ‘80s Legends, Pat Riley
• [18:14] Lakers-Celtics Game, Luka vs. Jaylen Brown
• [28:12] KAT vs. Shaq, Role Players, Dominance
• [37:04] Maxey vs. Ant, Must-See Tyrese
• [45:13] Team USA Olympics Roster Debate
• [54:07] Rap Albums with Only Singles
• [57:01] Zufa Boxing Rant
• [66:00] Listener Q&A: Pascal Siakam, New All-Star Format, NFL Mt. Rushmore

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Tone & Style

The conversation is sharp, candid, insightful, and full of good-natured ribbing. Rich Paul brings the insider/agent’s perspective, Max Kellerman offers the veteran broadcaster’s analytical lens. Both keep the energy lively, tossing in nostalgia, culture, and humor as they range through the NBA, boxing, and pop culture.

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Conclusion / Next Up

Rich and Max will revisit some unfinished discussions (notably, social media solutions) in the next episode, continue gifting fans, and take on more listener emails. As always, they encourage audience interaction and ongoing debate on the game's biggest questions.

Actionable Items:

• Listen to Juvenile’s “400 Degrees”
• Watch for gifting to faithful listeners
• Email show for future questions

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Stay tuned for Wednesday’s episode!

Transcript

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[Rich Paul]

Max Good weekend?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Yeah, listen, appreciate the, appreciate, appreciate the tickets.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, listen, you know, I was just thinking, I was like, this would be a good, good game for us to go to.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, I had. That wasn't in my plans, but I

[Rich Paul]

know, yeah, I know. I was like, I was hoping to go.

[Max Kellerman]

That was Sunday morning. I woke up to a text, basically, love, what are you doing today? Celtics, Lakers, 3 o', clock, 3:30.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but that came on the back end of the, our conversation on Friday night or Saturday night when I asked you, I said, what do you think most people care about or would want access or money?

[Max Kellerman]

See, as soon as I heard that, I knew what your answer would be because that's laid out in a way where the bait is the money. Most people would take the money and I am most people. So I said, yeah, I'll bite. Money. Why? Is it access?

[Rich Paul]

No, I said access. I just think that, yeah, you're right, most people will take the money. I'd rather take the access because the money can run out. And I think having access keeps you in position to always be able to get money, you know? And what are you identifying as money? Are you identifying it as information? Is it actual currency like dollar bills? Is it deal flow? Is it, you know, having an entry point to others? Rolodexes? There's a number of ways you can look at what money actually is. Obviously, we know what it is on the basis of our basis.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, money represents power, really. It's supposed. It is a. I think theoretically all the money in the world, probably maybe the easiest way to describe it, is worth all the work and. Or goods that can be exchanged in the world. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

But there's a lot of people with a lot of money with no access.

[Max Kellerman]

What you're saying rich is super American. Right. Like, the idea of the American dream is that wherever you start from, it's not a reality a lot of the time. Right. Which is why take something like affirmative action, based on the history of this country and what it has done to black people in this country. Right. The idea of affirmative action, whether or not you think it's misguided or a good thing, is access. Actually. It's not actually about result. It's about. The idea behind it is people need access to things.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And so access to education, access to jobs.

[Rich Paul]

You know, like, I'm going, like, there's restaurants that you can have a ton of money. Can't. Still can't get access to. Hell, you can't even get a table at Leora. No matter how much money you have, you can't. You know, you don't have the access. I'm joining a country club, or I'm trying to join a country club, a beautiful country club that is. That is. It's less about your money. It's more about your philanthropic efforts and having the access to those things. Right. So. And that's the beautiful thing. It makes you want to even be a part of that community more, which gives you access to this. These. This abundance of groups of people that have that. Think this way.

[Max Kellerman]

Because the social currency at that country club is philanthropic work. Of course, in order to do the philanthropic work that they're talking about. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You have to be.

[Max Kellerman]

You need a lot of money.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But money, in my opinion, is also a mindset. How are you thinking? Right. Because as we know, you can have all the money in the world, but if your mind is poor, then you're actually pretty broke. Sure.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, richness of one's inner life is super important. One of the reasons social media is destroying us is including me, by the way. Like, I don't know, I probably read a book a month until the advent of social media, and now I'm down. If I read two or three books in a year in recent years, that's

[Rich Paul]

like the biggest problem I have with social media is it misleads people that are striving to become someone in a way in which they are perceiving very fabricated information.

[Max Kellerman]

You're saying people fronting their lives and just showing you a little.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, because you only see the wins.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And no one's. And there's. And that's impossible.

[Max Kellerman]

But what you're. Yeah, and you're right. But what I'm talking about when you so like.

[Rich Paul]

And also, it's not even like. It's not consistent. It's like staged. And it causes you to be manipulated in a way in which I'm only gonna. I only want to get to the end result. I don't want to take the.

[Max Kellerman]

Put in the work. And it also creates pressure. The way like fashion pressure. Unnecessary fashion magazines created eating disorders for women once upon a time. Maybe they still do because they show you these images that are not, you know, normal images. But what I'm talking about with social media, I agree with what you're saying is it destroys our inner lives because it destroys our attention spans.

[Rich Paul]

Right. 100%.

[Max Kellerman]

Because the cost of scrolling for one more thing that takes 30 seconds of your time is almost zero in the short run. In the long run, it turns out you sat there doom scrolling for an hour, wasted your time and got nothing out of it. Got nothing out of it. Worse than nothing out of it. Now you don't have the patience. When was the last time you sat with the TV up? Now think about it. When I was a kid, TV was like a bad thing. You shouldn't be watching too much tv. I don't even have the patience to watch TV without having social media in front of me.

[Rich Paul]

So we got to get back to the essence.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't know how to do that.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, there's a way. There's a way to use social media if you can manage it. The problem is most people can't. But I'll take the access, you'll take the money.

[Max Kellerman]

I hate to tell you what the answer is with social media.

[Rich Paul]

Well, let's save it.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, that's right.

[Rich Paul]

Let's save it for Wednesday.

[Max Kellerman]

Look at you.

[Rich Paul]

Look at you.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, On Wednesday, I'll tell you what to do about social media.

[Rich Paul]

I was glad we was able to spend time last night at the game. I knew you would want to go to that game. Yeah, Dean didn't want to go to that game. I had to. I'm like, dean, come on, man, we have to go to the game.

[Max Kellerman]

First of all, when Dean was sitting down next to Pat Riley, he was in awe. He Couldn't stop smiling. This dude looked like he had a smile stamped on his face and he was trying to front, like he was just, like, hanging out. But you could see it's. Cause Pat Riley sitting right there.

[Rich Paul]

It was all about Pat Riley's Armani suits. Yeah, that's what. Oh.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

It's all about that.

[Max Kellerman]

Trust me.

[Rich Paul]

And. And him being on the beach. Those two things.

[Max Kellerman]

We got a lot to get into. Let's start with Lakers, Celtics.

[Rich Paul]

Let's pay some bills first.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

Game [e-mail]. please subscribe and thank you for all the emails we got.

[Max Kellerman]

We're getting to them today.

[Rich Paul]

We're getting to them today.

[Max Kellerman]

We're getting stuff. We can't do them, but we'll get to some of them today.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, we will. And you know what we should start doing?

[Max Kellerman]

What's that?

[Rich Paul]

I think we should do a little gifting to people that are supporting us, that they can win a certain gift. I'll pick the gift out, you give me the credit card, and then we'll send it to their.

[Max Kellerman]

I like it the other way. When I pick it out, he does it. You know, we gotta have. Obviously we gotta get sponsors to do that, right?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, we could sponsor ourselves for now, but.

[Max Kellerman]

Or resort or something. We give away a package, resort, all that stuff. Airline, something.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah, we should start doing that type of stuff. Yeah, it'd be great. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, show starts now. So Lakers, Celtics. I'm there with Rich Paul, courtside seats, everyone's there. Pat Riley, who they're honoring that day is, you know, all the Lakers greats, Magic and Kareem and James. Word. Everyone's there, and Pat Riley's there, and he's sitting caddy corner to us.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. How great did Pat and his wife look?

[Max Kellerman]

Dude, it's. I think they're animated. I think that's cgi. Pat Riley and his wife look like. If you can age like that. If you and your wife can age like that, you're winning.

[Rich Paul]

First of all, she was dressed better than he was, and Pat was dressed.

[Max Kellerman]

It's unbelievable.

[Rich Paul]

The hair tie, I mean, and the thing. Pat. I'm talking to him, and obviously it's always great to talk to Pat, but his mind is still so sharp, you know?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

It's like they look like 45 together, you know?

[Max Kellerman]

First of all, let me tell you, really, what little. Like little Max is thinking when Pat Riley even just knows who I am.

[Rich Paul]

Hey, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. I'm Playing it like, yeah, hey. But I'm like.

[Rich Paul]

But inside you like, come on, man. Come on.

[Max Kellerman]

It's Pat Riley.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you have to. I thought that was great. I thought it was great to see.

[Max Kellerman]

Cause they unveiled the statue.

[Rich Paul]

They unveiled the statue. We got a little statue, which I'm keeping my statue to go in my man cave. And then. How great was that Lakers team?

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, my God. Cause they. The Lakers team from the 80s was stupid.

[Rich Paul]

But we were sitting there, we were like, wait a minute, man. I don't think it hits you, but you like, they had Magic, they had Kareem, even though he was older. They had Michael Cooper. Wasn't there. Then they had Byron Scott, they had Jamal Wilkes. Hold up, hold up. McAdoo.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's back up the McAdoo trait. So when Jerry Buss buys the team, the late, great Dr. Jerry Buss, greatest owner by far in the history of American team sports, I think by far, he buys the team. That first year, they draft Magic. Now Magic, think about this is. He was 19, turning 20 that season. Wound up jumping at center in Game 6 of those finals as a rookie, giving him 42, 15 and 7 in a win. Because Cap. Because Kareem got hurt. I mean, as a rookie point guard, okay. Or shooting guard, because Norm Nixon was really the point guard. But that year.

[Rich Paul]

But Norm Nixon was there.

[Max Kellerman]

So think about this team, Rich. They just drafted Magic. They have Kareem, they got Norm Nixon, and they got Wilkes. And they're looking around going, you know, we need something. Let's go get McAdoo, bring him in. It's unbelievable.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's like you having a spread. You have. I mean, everything you can imagine. Great wine, you have champagne, you have the. And then you're like, you know what? Let's add some truffles and some caviar.

[Max Kellerman]

They draft James Worthy. They got.

[Rich Paul]

They got everything on there.

[Max Kellerman]

AC Green, and who am I missing?

[Rich Paul]

Byron Scott, Kurt Rambis, and they had

[Max Kellerman]

every Michael Cooper you mentioned.

[Rich Paul]

Is that the most complete team you ever seen?

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, this is how great the Lakers Showtimes team were. And by the way, we're playing a little fast and loose because not all of those guys were in their primes on the same team.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that's right.

[Max Kellerman]

But they span the 80s.

[Rich Paul]

And, Rich, I was 1 years old.

[Max Kellerman]

When you think about the Celtics teams, the Celtics teams with Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Robinson, Robert Parish, Danny A. Was the shooting guard. You know, they went and got a. They went and got a.

[Rich Paul]

Bill Walton off is complete.

[Max Kellerman]

No, that's the thing. When the finals used to roll around, you would look at the starting fives and go, man, I don't know if anyone has a better starting five than the Celtics. Then the Lakers had the depth too. I think the Lakers were a more.

[Rich Paul]

Had more depth. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, they were a more complete team, I think.

[Rich Paul]

Well, yeah, I mean some of those guys. Yeah. I don't remember. Cause I was 1 years old. The 82 team, I saw videos.

[Max Kellerman]

I remember that team.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I do remember the 87, 88.

[Max Kellerman]

Cause my aunt friend, the James Worthy team.

[Rich Paul]

My aunt Fran lived in LA and she used to send us the Tide One suits from the swap meet and she used to send us the Lakers T shirts back then. That was like her. She always would give me and my. My. My brother and sister. But it was just great to see that. Those moments. Because the other thing is like we don't know when we're going to see those. That. That group of people like to. To have all those people there and just going back on the history and they showing the old parades and amazing. They had to. Pat. Pat said we're going to win it again next year then. And then after that they. They gagged him because they didn't want him to say something else. Like just showing that camaraderie and hearing every player talked about how he pushed them, how he was for the players.

[Max Kellerman]

They said he was like a shrink. He was like a psychoanalyst, a psychiatrist. He knew not only how to motivate the team, said magic, but how to push each player's button, who he could ride, who he had to lay off of a little bit more.

[Rich Paul]

But you know what I think made Pat so great? When you think about his journey and he talked about it yesterday, he literally played every role. Yep. He was.

[Max Kellerman]

He's like the guy who starts in the mailroom.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. He was a scouting team.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no.

[Rich Paul]

Before he was a broadcaster, he was

[Max Kellerman]

a player on the Lakers championship team.

[Rich Paul]

He played every role.

[Max Kellerman]

He was a broadcaster, you know, like everything.

[Rich Paul]

And so having all those different experiences, it does make you pretty complete. And I talked to him about the comments that we talked about on the show earlier and I was spot on. He's not. Look, he's just like, you have to adapt, obviously.

[Max Kellerman]

Which comments are you referring to?

[Rich Paul]

I don't remember exactly. What is it?

[Max Kellerman]

The ones where he said he doesn't love this new game, but he has to play it.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Max Kellerman]

I thought he was talking about style of play.

[Rich Paul]

Well, also just about when you think about Playing for Pat Riley, whether he's a coach or a front office exec, there's just a few. You don't really have to be the ultra talented guy if you don't have all the talent, but you have the toughness, you have the iq, you have the ability to be coach, you have the willingness to win and you, most importantly, you care. I think he could. I mean, he did it. Udonis Haslam.

[Max Kellerman]

I was about to say Haslam, yeah,

[Rich Paul]

Like, that was the perfect.

[Max Kellerman]

Haslam is a lifer because when he gets his hands on a dude like that, he's like, that's what the culture is all about.

[Rich Paul]

But you can coach him. He was tough. You know, he played every role. I was there when UD probably didn't play. A lot of the minutes that he probably wanted to play and could play, came in every day with the right attitude, et cetera, when his name was called, you know, so he deserved to play and be rewarded as many years as he. As he was, because he gave you that. And that's an example of. You don't always have to be the shiny object to have longevity. Think about that. There's guys that come in ultra talented, blah, blah, blah, and then they out.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, you know what the ultimate example of that is? A guy who did come in with all the talent and stayed around forever. Vince Carter.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Vince Carter comes in as the primary scoring option. He, you know, 25 points a game highlight, real stuff. And played 20 years because at a certain point as the league changed and he got older, he thought, oh, I have to play like this now. Became a, became a, you know, a catch and shoot shooting guy.

[Rich Paul]

A lot better. But also his character. If you ever spend time around Vince.

[Max Kellerman]

I have a little bit, yes.

[Rich Paul]

His character, he's just. Yeah, so. He's just so. But it was, it was great. The, the, the. I tell you something, if this Celtics team add Jayson Tatum, can we.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, let's get to the game itself. Now, let me tell you what. Pat Riley, and I'm sure JJ Redick, who's done a great job coaching the team, I think this season, but he must be beside himself because what a Pat Riley team. What he would not tolerate is on a day that, that the most legendary coach in the franchise's history gets a statue unveiled outside the arena and the little mini replicas given away to the fans. And the Lakers, who are a playoff team host the Celtics, who are a playoff team. And the Celtics are missing their best player arguably. And the Lakers have their full Complement of players in a season where they haven't had that usually. And the Lakers didn't just play this. It's not the second of back to back or anything like that. The fact that that team then gets maybe blowouts too strong a word. But it was damn close. It was a 20 point lead at one point in the fourth quarter. That is unacceptable for a Lakers team, any Lakers team, but especially one with luka Doncic and LeBron James and Austin Reaves and like Deandre Eaton was the number one overall draft pick and all this kind of stuff. But yeah, Eaton went one and Luka went too. Or did Luka go one and Ayton go two?

[Rich Paul]

No, Luka went three.

[Max Kellerman]

Who went two?

[Rich Paul]

Bagley went two.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

So. But at any rate, I think anyway, they were. These are like a top draft pick in Ayton and Phoenix took him one. Anyway, the point is that is not okay. And you know how Riley has his statue. You know what? Luka Doncic's statue, if he ever gets one outside of crypto now is gonna be. It's gonna be like this. This is the Luka statue. Like this, with his arms out like this.

[Rich Paul]

Why you say that?

[Max Kellerman]

Every single trip down the floor, you're complaining to the refs. Every Luka. Every trip down the floor. Every trip down the floor, you're complaining to the ref. Even when he hits the shot. No, you're not gonna get the. And one. It can't be that the refs blow every call on Luka Doncic.

[Rich Paul]

Not only that, this is. This is your rant.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no, I got a rant later

[Rich Paul]

on this and a rant.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I got a rant later on. But here's the problem, Rich. You and I both saw this last night. Jaylen Brown's better than Luka Doncic. Better player. Rather have him on the team. If I had to start a team, I'd rather start it with Jaylen Brown than Luka.

[Rich Paul]

Jaylen Brown is a damn good player.

[Max Kellerman]

He's better than. He's better than Luka. And the reason he's better than Luka is partly because he's not as skilled as Luka. That's one of the reasons he's better. Here it is in the NFL if you're a mobile quarterback, right? And by the way, this excuse was used to keep black players out of playing quarterback for years, right? That we keep talking about the field generals, the history of the black quarterback that docked. It's out. Which is excellent. Which we're both in, but.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I haven't seen myself in a year.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you sat for it but you keep going. But at any rate, when you're as I always talk about, short term incentives motivate behavior more than long term incentives. Usually if you can scramble then and you need a first down, your short term incentive is always get the first down with your legs if it's available. The problem is if you do that all the time, you don't develop as much as a pocket passer, which is the most important thing to be. Right. That's Luka Doncic. Luka Doncic is a scrambling quarterback who hasn't develop pocket awareness. What's the analogy? Because he's so skillful he can almost always get himself a high percentage shot. So that's what he does. But as a result his teammates are standing around, the ball is not moving. And when you add to that the fact that he complains about every single possession to the refs and he doesn't play defense, he actually tried once or twice on defense last night. He is the player who he is. But because Jaylen Brown is not as talented as Luka, he is forced, if he wants to be a great player to play the right way. He gets his points in the flow of the game. If you need a bucket, he can go get it for you. Not avoid contact, get the and one, shoot the three. He will hustle back on defense. He's a heads up player. He'll make the right pass because he's not as good. He has become better. He was forced. The pressure was that to make become a great player forced him to be a better player than Luka. I rest my case.

[Rich Paul]

So how do you fix it Max? What would you do? You have a player at the level that he is. How do you fix it?

[Max Kellerman]

I think here's the tough part because he's been to a conference finals playing that way. So he has some track record of success. And at his best, Luka's a lot. He, he's a lot. He's a really great offensive player, man. I think J.J. is going to have to get in Luka's face about it. I think he's going to have to force him to play a different brand of basketball, you know and maybe it's not get in his face, maybe it's push his buttons another way. You know, Pat Riley, when he wanted to change the Lakers offense a little bit, it wasn't always just going to get throw it down to Kareem. Had to push the right Buttons had to put guys in certain spots, had to bring people along.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Look, I think anytime you have any great talent, you know, you have to make sure that the pieces fit for their strengths and you have the holes filled for their weaknesses. And as you can see last night, Jayden Brown was incredible last night, but he wasn't the impact player of the game. The impact player of the game is Peyton Pritchard.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, Pritchard's just good.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. And on top of that, the thing I was most impressed with with the Celtics was, yeah, we know Jayson Tatum is out. We know the type of coach that Joe Missoula is. He's gonna have guys prepared. But the thing I was most impressed with was you had guys like Schreiberman,

[Max Kellerman]

the big Keda, Quint Keda.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. You had Hugo Gonzalez. I think the ball pressure that he was putting on guys. I think to me, when you have the other guys that maybe they play, maybe they don't step up on a night like that and give an effort. They did not make plays that were, like, gonna show up in the stat sheet in terms of the point column or whatever the case may be, but they made effort plays. They made plays that said, in order for you to beat us tonight, you're gonna have to take it. We're not giving the game away.

[Max Kellerman]

They played with more intensity.

[Rich Paul]

And so I think all coaches and all players, especially if you're not like the top tier guys like we. And we're going to talk about Tyrese and Ant, you know, in terms of being those young guys where the stars of future is bright for the NBA, but for these guys who were rogue guys coming into this game last night, I thought they were the difference makers, just flying around, tip balls, extra possessions. There was one possession where I think it was three guys and Schreiberman, and I'm sure they're gonna watch this in the film. And he got his hand on the ball, tipped it out, and Pritchard hit another three. Those are daggers in the game when you're trying to win. And, you know, sometimes, like, guys just don't have the legs, so the shooting wasn't there and things of that nature.

[Max Kellerman]

You know, the Lakers did. They played the game as though it was a second of back to back. In the sense, Rich, that. That they shot the ball like they had tired legs. That's the way they shot the ball. They were missing a lot of shots like they had tired legs.

[Rich Paul]

Well, but there also is something that for some reason, and you have to go back. And look at this. It's almost like a trap game. Whenever it's like the Clippers versus the Lakers, it's so much intensity there. Like, the next game is kind of like. It's almost like a trap game in a way.

[Max Kellerman]

It's the Celtics. I know, but the Clippers game is more.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm just saying that for some reason, if you just go back and watch every time.

[Max Kellerman]

So. But maybe. Maybe what you're saying is true. Maybe the Clippers, because of Bomber or whatever, are now more important emotionally to the Lakers and the Celtics are.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know. I'm just saying I just watch a lot of basketball and, you know, obviously legs matter in games, especially when it's. The effort was like it was last night. You know, guys are. The intensity was definitely there, especially for the Celtics. They were like, flying all over the place.

[Max Kellerman]

Except for the number of times Luca was complaining and so not getting back on defense. And they're playing. They're playing four on five and then, by the way, hanging around on the offensive. Listen, let's move on.

[Rich Paul]

Before you go on another rant.

[Max Kellerman]

Luca Lucas should has the chance to be the best player in basketball. He's nowhere near that right now because of what I'm describing. He complains to the refs, too. Everything people say about Luca is true. He complains to the refs too much. He plays zero defense. And then because he's so brilliant offensively, it actually hurts your offense in a way because the temptation is to always just. Luka, go get a high percentage shot.

[Rich Paul]

All right, look, gotta have a little patience, Max.

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[Max Kellerman]

some to something you said. You talk about the role players on the Celtics.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And how effective they were.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Shaq said to Carl Anthony Towns after the Knicks game yesterday that they won. He said, you have to be more dominant. I'm paraphrasing. You have to be more dominant. And Karl Anthony Town said it's not. Basically, again, I'm paraphrasing. This is not an ego thing on this team. I don't. We don't care who gets it. We just want to win and we won. Shaq was like, no, no, no. You got to hear me. You have to be more dominant. If you guys want to really do something, it comes down to that. And finally Cat was like, okay, I got it. But I totally agree with Shaq Rich.

[Rich Paul]

He.

[Max Kellerman]

The Knicks are constructed. Moving on to the Knicks now. The Knicks are constructed in a way that is unlikely to win a championship unless everyone does their job just right. Josh Hart is a. I love Josh Hart. He has to shoot the ball more consistently if the Knicks want to win a championship. Mikhail Bridges is an excellent player. They traded five firsts for him. He is, he is. Does not impose his. Himself on the game quite enough. He's too much for. Of a good role player. He needs to, to.

[Rich Paul]

To.

[Max Kellerman]

To sometimes get a bucket in the moment of truth. If you're going to trade five firsts for the guy and Carl Anthony Towns who was the number one overall draft pick and all this kind of stuff and a really great shooter paired with Jalen Brunson who's doing everything he can do at his size, needs to be a great player for them to win a championship. I agree with Shaq.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I agree with Shaq too. Don't get so caught up in first round picks because some first round picks are like phantom picks.

[Max Kellerman]

That's on the number one overall pick. Usually pretty good. Usually.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, I'm talking about. You talking about because of the trade. I'm saying don't get so first round pick. You mean not number one overall picks.

[Max Kellerman]

No, but I'm saying if you trade five, if Rich Paul, the GM is going to trade five firsts, you want something back better than a nice role play.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but. But five firsts in an announcement. It's one thing you have to dig up under the surface to understand what those things look.

[Max Kellerman]

I understand.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But I agree with Shaq too. And I think what Shaq is talking about is when he Talks about dominance. It's not like you have to have 50 points every night. What he's saying is just make sure that you're imposing your will on the game every night in every which way. Listen, Cat is one of the most talented bigs in our league today.

[Max Kellerman]

He might be the best shooting big ever. Shooting.

[Rich Paul]

He might be the best ever. But also I think that he has so much talent. I see what Shaq is saying. He could be a guy that is having the impact of a Jokic, given the fact that he can if he was able to play in different spots. Right. He's smart enough to play out of the pinch post. He has great touch. He has the size. He can pick and pop. He can go into a dribble handoff. And it's just a.

[Max Kellerman]

He has the length and the ability and the quicks enough to defend out in space and defend the rim, which he was supposed to do out of college, but he did it for like a month this season. Earlier in the season. He was a good defender for like a month.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but that's where as a big. As a big. To do that night in and night out. That takes a hell of a lot of motor to do that. But with that being said, when you watch Jokic play, he's very seldomly like just standing around with no presence. Right. Even if he's standing there, he's. He's been able to observe what's happening and be able to either instruct other guys. Right. Or he's positioning to be able to give his team an advantage.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't think you can compare any Big to Jokic because of what you're saying. He is like a super version of. Remember when Sabonis came over here the first time?

[Rich Paul]

The father. Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Or like Bill Walton. But he. He is a point guard from the center position. So his ability to pass and affect his team and run the offense. But I'm just saying different than everyone else.

[Rich Paul]

His impactfulness on the game is what I'm saying. Like Jokic is going to make. If I'm a player, I'm standing next to Jokic as long as I can because he's going to make you better. And if he makes you better, obviously you're going to make more money. I'm not saying that K Cat should be at the level of Jokic. I'm saying when you talk about impact and dominance, dominance is just all about having your will on the game to where it causes the defense to shift, the defense to collapse in a way in which now you do make those other guys better, like, as dominant as Shaq was. And obviously he scored a ton of points when he posted or when he flashed to the middle and was big. Like, play big. You gotta put three guys on him.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Paul]

Now you got Hori open, Fisher's open, Kobe's open. I mean, so guys like Shaq.

[Max Kellerman]

So guys like Shaq. We were talking about role players before. A guy like Shaq makes the role players better. A guy like. If you look at LeBron's teams, why every time they get a role player, does that guy play so well? Because of the gravity. So it's two things. It's the gravity and then the IQ of the guy with that gravity.

[Rich Paul]

Players like Jokic and LeBron, what makes them so good? Especially when LeBron was in his prime. LeBron was so big and so fast. His first step at that size. Normally a guy at that size, with that athleticism. He's so dependent of his athleticism. He lacks the iq. Right. Super athletic. Guys normally don't have super gifted.

[Max Kellerman]

They never had to develop that.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, he had that. So now when he turns that corner and he gets a paint touch, the moment that low man helps, he's kicking it to the wide open guy. It's up to you to make the shot. And he has a lot of flack on that. Danielle Marsh in the corner, Kyle Korver in the corner. You know the difference between that and

[Max Kellerman]

Patrick Shaq, an underrated passer, even on those Orlando teams. Dennis Scott and these guys wide open because Shaq's.

[Rich Paul]

But I believe in Cat. I really do. I believe in Cat.

[Max Kellerman]

So, like, so this is what I mean from the earlier conversation. Rich Jaylen Brown, if you looked at him, does he have the ability to be a top 10 player in the league? Well, yeah, but I wouldn't bet on it. Right.

[Rich Paul]

He's no James Brown has gotten a lot better. I mean, he's already good.

[Max Kellerman]

That's my point. He is a top 10 player.

[Rich Paul]

He's better than that. He's gotten a lot better.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. But when you look at Cat, in other words, Jaylen Brown. Yeah, he could be, but I'm not putting money that he will be. When you look at Cat, just physically, you go, yeah, he should be a top 10 player in the league. I don't know that he is. He's probably not right now, but he should be.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think he has all.

[Max Kellerman]

That's what Shaq's talking about.

[Rich Paul]

I think he has all the capabilities to be. When you check the box, if you Just took the name away, and you checked the box of every skill set that he possesses, you would say that has to be a top 10 player.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, he needs to be dog Anthony Towns. Not Cat. Carl Anthony Towns.

[Rich Paul]

Right. Right or wrong, man. Congratulations to Cat. He just got engaged.

[Max Kellerman]

Did you see that? Yeah. Congratulations. By the way, Knicks fans that, like, Cat is one of the best players the Knicks have ever had.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, he's good.

[Max Kellerman]

He's. And I really think that earlier this year, when he was really playing defense and the Knicks got hot, that may have wore him out a little bit on the offensive end going forward, but he might be getting his legs now.

[Rich Paul]

But here's the thing I hate that we do to players. Don't just say what a player should be doing. Put them in position to do it.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Don't just say what they should be doing. Put them in position to do it.

[Max Kellerman]

Shaq, we got to do that. He's.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I'm not talking about Shaq. I'm saying if you identify all these things a guy can do right, then you have to build your team around their capabilities to make your team better.

[Max Kellerman]

This is what I mean.

[Rich Paul]

If Cat.

[Max Kellerman]

See there's. What Shaq is talking about is do what the team. If the team needs 40, get them 40. If they need 20 boards, get them 20 boards. If they need six blocks, get them six blocks. And, yes, Cat has that ability. He should be the best player on the team. But actually, Brunson's the best player on the team. But the best player should be Cat. But the Knicks need all of their guys. They don't have a margin for error. They need all of their guys to be the best versions of themselves if they hope to win a championship.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. But something. If something isn't working one way, you have to be willing to switch it up and try it another way. And that way may be actually playing through Cat in different ways. That's just the way it is.

[Max Kellerman]

Instead of Brunson.

[Rich Paul]

You're right. And speaking about younger guys, like a Brunson. Ooh, it was a good matchup yesterday.

[Max Kellerman]

And I have that punk that Maxi had over.

[Rich Paul]

I have a new nickname for Tyrese. Yeah, I haven't.

[Max Kellerman]

We're talking about Tyrese Maxey and Edwards matchup. Tyrese had, what, 38 in a. Tyrese

[Rich Paul]

Maxey is in that community I talked about of young budding stars. Yeah, he is. And every night, he's. And this is not me being Mr. Bias, because I couldn't say this player is the best that I represent, but this is not me being Mr. Bias. I do happen to represent Tyrese Maxey for full disclosure, but the proof is in the pudding. The new nickname for Tyrese is Must See Tyrese.

[Max Kellerman]

Ooh, I love it. Because he is Must See Tyrese.

[Rich Paul]

He is Must See. He's Must See Tyrese. And the Sixers. The Sixers, which I think they realize what they have. You cannot take this for granted because there's not an organization. And we can do this poll since we have so many unanimous executives. If we did a unanimous. An executive poll.

[Max Kellerman]

Poll with executives.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, Anonymous. I'm sorry, not unanimous.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. You talking about.

[Rich Paul]

I know. An anonymous poll with executives, and you said, would you want a guy like Tyrese Maxey on your team? It would be unanimous that they. Yes, yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And it'd be Udonis Haslam.

[Rich Paul]

And last night was one of those examples on the road in Minnesota. And here's the thing I like about Ant. Yeah. After his post game, he's not trying to sugarcoat it. He's like, man, listen, I thought the guy was going to lay it up. I turned my head for a little second and boom, he's dunking it. That's why we play the game. That competitive nature. And it was less about the dunk for me, which the dunk was nasty. But you know what was nastier? If you really watch it, he slowed down and had a change of direction through the legs.

[Max Kellerman]

Uh huh.

[Rich Paul]

And then burst.

[Max Kellerman]

That's interesting.

[Rich Paul]

See, that's slow fast. My man Jerry Powell used to always talk about slow, fast. Jerry Powell's from New York. He's a trainer. And he always talk about slow, fast. When you play the game like Tyrese, and he's so fast. But when you can slow it down and play slow, fast, fast, slow.

[Max Kellerman]

It's like a pitcher with 100 mile an hour fastball who throws you a changeup.

[Rich Paul]

Once you get that and you got to step back and you can finish right or left. And more importantly than anything, you care. See, it's not so much as about. When you look at our great players, the common denominator in all of them is they care more than others. They care about the game. When you watch Tyrese play, he's smiling, he cares, and he's an assassin. When you watch Anthony Edwards play, same thing. Those young guys that actually care is why the league is in great shape. You know, last night was a good. Was a. Was that those are two guys going to be on the Olympic team. But Tyrese, last night was special. But he's special. Most nights, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

No, really is. Tyrese is in and out the line. Does he have a nickname yet?

[Rich Paul]

No, his new nickname is Must See Tyrese.

[Max Kellerman]

Tyrese. The thing I realize about Ant, why I disagree with you. And you said he's the best player in the game already. Here's not to sound like the owner in Jerry Maguire who wanted his prototypical 6 foot 5 receiver or whatever it was. They didn't want the short receiver, but.

[Rich Paul]

Well, there's some things I learned that you told me about, but I. Go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

I would say he's like 6 4. Ant is like. He's not. He's not Kobe Jordan's size.

[Rich Paul]

And I thought he was much taller than that, but go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

And like Dwyane Wade also, what was he? Six' three, six' four, something like that?

[Rich Paul]

Dwe was listed as six' four.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? Listed. Maybe not as tall as six' four. And maybe Ant is a little taller, I don't know.

[Rich Paul]

But who also played bigger than his size.

[Max Kellerman]

There's never been, I'm trying to think, in the history of the NBA. And this includes Steph Curry, a guy who was the best player in basketball maybe a year. Steph, you could argue in 2022, Steph was the best player in basketball maybe a year.

[Rich Paul]

Under six five. Under six' six.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Ever. Who is it? That guy. Because the hoop is high up in the air, it selects out for height, which is why, if you look at the average size of an NBA player, they're much taller than the average. Right. Or average man in the United States. Because it selects out for height. And as a result, like, even in 2016, when Steph was the unanimous MVP and had an incredible season, when it came time for the playoffs, LeBron was just physically too much. They're both great players, both smart players, both. This one guy's 6 foot 8, 250 pounds, and the other guy, whatever, and the other guy's 6 foot 3. Like, of course, the guy who's 68 and faster and stronger and all that stuff is gonna be better if they're both good at other stuff.

[Rich Paul]

The point I was trying to make is. And we made the point that the league is really, when you think about it, it's really is up for grabs. Like, who the next. Like we talked about the community of the face of the league. We were talking about who's the next face of the league. And I said, it's going to be led by a community. I thought it was going to be a community led by this person. But honestly, the More. I think about it every night. That could change. It does change because you had Cade last night. You got Jalen Brown and Tyrese Maxey tomorrow. Tonight, it may be somebody different. Like, it's, it's.

[Max Kellerman]

It does change every night, Rich. Even when I said, here's my first team, all NBA, I had Kawhi on it, right?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Then Kawhi had to leave the game

[Rich Paul]

with an injury, especially before he left.

[Max Kellerman]

No question. But. But like, when it's this close with everyone I look at, I watch Luka not play defense. I go, you're not on my first team. I watched Jaylen Brown have the game he had, and then Kawhi had to leave with an injury. It's that close. Where I'm like, maybe I'd put Cade at the Garden. Like, Cade Kawhi, Jaylen Brown. There's a whole Anthony Edwards, a whole slew of players. Tyrese Maxey, Tyrese Maxey. On any given night, you go, ooh, maybe it's that guy.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, the performance he put on in the playoffs in the Garden. Yeah. To me, going back to your garden in the playoffs to do that in the garden when you thought the game was over. And it's like those are those moments and those are those type of guys when those guys do that on that stage. It's just some stages that when a guy shows that ability to persevere and rise above and come through in the key moments you like. Okay. And last night, must see Tyrese, was that.

[Max Kellerman]

No doubt.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

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[Max Kellerman]

You know, we were talking about the Olympic team and who might be on it and who might not be.

[Rich Paul]

Well, those two guys are on it.

[Max Kellerman]

Here's what I was thinking. It's going to be tough because. Let's talk. Is Cooper Flag definitely an Olympia?

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

No question. Cooper Flag's on the team, but he

[Rich Paul]

would have been if he was coming out last year. You always get that one player leaving college. It was Laettner, it was Anthony Davis.

[Max Kellerman]

Cooper Flag, they would have taken him anyway. But on the merits, he's going to be on the team.

[Rich Paul]

Well, now, yeah, of course.

[Max Kellerman]

Cooper Flag. People don't understand how good he is. I don't think Rich. Cooper Flag is. I don't know.

[Rich Paul]

Why not?

[Max Kellerman]

Cooper Flag is like. Let me. He is an excellent defender. His defense is like his offense. It's elite at a young age. What can't he do? He's athletic, he's big. He plays both ends. He's smart. He makes adjustments. He can shoot it. He can get to the basket. What doesn't the kid do?

[Rich Paul]

I could stop you. All you had to do was say Cooper Flagg's mother is Kelly Flagg. You can stop me.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. So that's it. So Cooper Flagg's an Olympian?

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Con Knippel, probably. Also because you need shooting and because he is.

[Rich Paul]

Actually, I like this. I thought about that the other day, and he's smart. I think there's a world where Con is on that team.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Paul]

Cause you need shooting. And the way he shoots the ball and the way he plays the game. Right. He plays the game the right way. And when you're getting an Olympic team. Right. The Olympic team is all about playing the game the right way. Being able to sacrifice and being able to start. That's the one place where you really have to, no pun intended, star in your role. Like you have to star in your role amongst the stars. You really do. And so that's one and a half. Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't know if Knipple makes it or not, but he might.

[Rich Paul]

Let's just say Anthony Edwards.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait, before we get there, this is my point. This draft class is considered whether or not it turns out that way. On paper, it's considered better than last year's draft class. That's what people are saying. The consensus is this is. Well, I don't.

[Rich Paul]

Listen. Paper is paper.

[Max Kellerman]

But if that's true or not, I'm saying that's the perception.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no.

[Max Kellerman]

I think it's safe to say Rich. That anywhere between one and three players in this draft could wind up on the Olympic team because they got another year to demonstrate.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I would never say never. I would say it's highly unlikely. That is three.

[Max Kellerman]

I agree.

[Rich Paul]

I. I may give you one.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

But I'll take one.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. But let's go through it.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we even do, if it's Cooper flag and one for this team and maybe Caniple.

[Rich Paul]

That's two and a half.

[Max Kellerman]

That's two and a half dot Right.

[Rich Paul]

So you have nine and a half.

[Max Kellerman]

You got nine and a half slots.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. So I think Maxi should make it.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. I would say bubble. I'd say Maxi's on the bubble because. Not. Because he's not. He is. Ty. He is. Must see Tyrese.

[Rich Paul]

But out of the six, three and under guards, I think just take backcourt players. Okay. Backcourt players. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

So there's Ant.

[Rich Paul]

Ant.

[Max Kellerman]

He's on.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Booker.

[Max Kellerman]

Maybe Booker and Tyrese are bubble. To me, like, let's. Maybe they are, but Ant's definitely.

[Rich Paul]

Like, how could you say Booker is on the bubble when the man just played and won a gold medal? And not only did he play, he played.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's a good point.

[Rich Paul]

Every which way. The right way.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm just. Because. Because, Rich, let's. Let's. I'm just saying, like, we have so many names to go through. When I hear one that can't not be on the team, I'll say it.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

I think Ant can't not be on the team.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, so.

[Max Kellerman]

But now Booker and Tyrese. Let's keep going.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, you have.

[Rich Paul]

Let's just say this. The guys that was on the last Olympic gold medal team, they actually get preference. Preference. Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Booker, Tyrese, Cade. Talking about backcourt players now.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Jaylen Brown.

[Rich Paul]

Maybe Kawhi Leonard or.

[Max Kellerman]

Too old.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. Too old. So Jaylen Brown. Jaylen Brown might be the MVP this year, and he. Maybe.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but he didn't play before. But maybe. I know he would probably want to play. I mean, he didn't tell me that, but I imagine all guys want to play.

[Max Kellerman]

We're up to four.

[Rich Paul]

Yes,

[Max Kellerman]

Ant. We already. Ant.

[Rich Paul]

You already said Ant. No, no, no.

[Max Kellerman]

Cade, Booker.

[Rich Paul]

Tyrese.

[Max Kellerman]

Tyrese. Oh, yeah, you're right.

[Rich Paul]

Ant.

[Max Kellerman]

And Jaylen Brown is 5.

[Rich Paul]

Jaylen Brown, but also Tyler Reese. Halliburton was on that.

[Max Kellerman]

Halliburton. Oh, excuse me. Pardon me. To me, the definites that I just heard, I'm not leaving him off. If he's healthy. Halliburton, Cade, and Ant. Those three are on for me and Booker. That's what I'm saying. Let's see how many spots there are, because we already have two and a half.

[Rich Paul]

And Maxey.

[Max Kellerman]

So Booker, Maxey.

[Rich Paul]

Those are six guards. Okay, you can stop right there. You still have Brunson. You still have Mitchell. You still have Brunson. You still have Mitchell.

[Max Kellerman]

Ooh, Donovan Mitchell's going to be on the team.

[Rich Paul]

You think so?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Okay, well, Jalen Brunson. How do you leave Brunson off the team?

[Rich Paul]

You take Brunson and Mitchell.

[Max Kellerman]

This is what I'm saying. Rich, Ant.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Cade.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. Halliburton. Yes. Now, I think we have to talk about it because there's Tyrese Maxey. There's Jaylen Brown, there's Devin Booker. There's Jalen Brunson.

[Rich Paul]

See, I think the other way, you have to. If Booker wants to play, you have to. He was on the team already. You can't.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, I don't want to get bogged down in that. Fine. You're right. He's won. He's been on the team the whole thing. My point is there's like 10 backcourt players.

[Rich Paul]

That's okay. But. But those guys.

[Max Kellerman]

There's only 12 spots on the team.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but those guys are. Then you have. If Tatum wants to play Tatum.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, let me do it again. Tatum is a yes.

[Rich Paul]

If he wants to play.

[Max Kellerman]

I have four definite yeses. And I have the other guys where it's another half dozen players. Now. We got to get to the.

[Rich Paul]

To the court. Yeah. Chet Bamboo, Ad, if he wants to play. I mean, Mobley, possibly, Duran, possibly. You know, a lot of spots.

[Max Kellerman]

What good thing this is. I count 15, 16, 20 guys.

[Rich Paul]

Here's what I'll say. The best thing about this is this is not your or my job. It's Grant Hill's job. So good luck, Grant. And then. But the most important thing is I don't care what happens. One thing I know, this Olympics will be played on U.S. soil.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

And you cannot half step with the Olympic team.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

You just can't. The biggest thing about selecting the Olympic team is you have to make sure that guys actually want to really play. And you have to do that a year and a half out because they have other things to do. And then now you have to consider injuries. You have to consider guys having children, whatever the case may be. And you know, there's some guys like,

[Max Kellerman]

Tatum already has two long playoff runs.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Age, everything, all those things.

[Rich Paul]

So you have To. It's a hard job to do because we just named 20 players. Right. And there's probably 10 others if we wanted to name.

[Max Kellerman]

I named seven that I can think of that must be on the team,

[Rich Paul]

but there's probably a pool of. Including co, by the way, 24 players that we could shift in and out. We didn't name anybody on the Spurs, Castle, Fox. We didn't name the. There's.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I don't think those guys are going to make.

[Rich Paul]

We didn't name Jalen Williams.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, Jaylen Williams when he's healthy.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

As there's.

[Rich Paul]

There's several guys that you can. Jalen Johnson we didn't talk about.

[Max Kellerman]

You're right.

[Rich Paul]

You know, so there's. There's a lot of guys there. And again, that's why Grant gets paid the big bucks. But all I know is it's played on US soil.

[Max Kellerman]

Who are your definites? My definites are Cade Halliburton, I think you.

[Rich Paul]

The only definites I can give you

[Max Kellerman]

is guys Brown, Tatum, Cooper, Flag. That's six. And I'm probably missing one or two that I think is a definite.

[Rich Paul]

Well, here's what I say. The only definites I can give you is the guys that were on the team before because they're the only ones that actually gets preference. Yeah, but you know, the Olympic team is a lot like a album with all singles. Right. You gotta be able to go to radio with each song. And speaking of that, hit singles. Yeah. Have you. In the 90s, how many albums you think had. Yeah, I just want to. Actually, I was thinking about this in the. Cause I have an album that I know you're not going to get. I know for sure you're not going to get this album. Mr. Hip Hop himself.

[Max Kellerman]

The no Skips. The no Skip albums.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. How many albums you think. Can you think of? How many albums can you think of that had not just no Skips? Because no Skips is like your preference. I'm talking about songs or records that could have been. Every song could have been a single, you mean.

[Max Kellerman]

So now you're asking me to gauge the album based on what I think would be popular with other people.

[Rich Paul]

Still good, but able to go to radio.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, so radio friendly albums.

[Rich Paul]

Not radio friendly. Each song is a single. Like if we said the 2000s. Right, right. 50 Cent, get rich or Die Trying. Yeah, he had, I don't know, 16,

[Max Kellerman]

17, big first album, lot of radio friendly stuff.

[Rich Paul]

He probably had. He 50 probably had 15 records on that album that could have been singles. Yeah, Right. That's in the 2000s, I'm saying in the 90s. Which one do you have? I mean, how many can you think of? Because I have one. I know you're not going to think of hip hop now, and it's incredible.

[Max Kellerman]

We're sticking in rap now.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, rap. Just rap. Oh, man.

[Max Kellerman]

In the 90s. Well, what year did like Tribes third album? You know what I mean? Like, Tribes hit the early 90s with a lot. I don't know about a lot of singles.

[Rich Paul]

Not all singles. I don't know about that.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm trying to think.

[Rich Paul]

I'll give you another one in the 2000s just so you can get a reference, like Blueprint. There's another one that had no doubt. Out of 15 records, that's like 01, 02. Thirteen of them were singles.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. So those are two monsters. Keep going. Yeah, you're not gonna get this one.

[Max Kellerman]

We're talking about. Just give me one radio.

[Rich Paul]

Just give me one.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm trying to make it easy, like, because what I listen to is probably, you know, I mean, you have. With swords and the purple tape are

[Rich Paul]

not gonna go dmx. You have guys like Nas. You have guys like. I mean, you know, Jay Z came out in the 90s as well. Yep, you have. I don't know, did Ludacris come out in the 90s? You have. Outkast came out in the 90s. You have. I mean, there's a number one, Snoop.

[Max Kellerman]

Remember when I was like, snoop. Wait, Was that late 80s? Everyone's like, oh, how could you not know? Like, I'm trying to figure out what year I was, like, where I was, high school or college when that came out. So that's 90s a doggy style was, you know, a lot of singles on that.

[Rich Paul]

Is that your pick? It could be one that's early, early 90s. I'm talking about later.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, now we got to do the second half of the 90s.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no.

[Max Kellerman]

Just give me the matter.

[Rich Paul]

You said doggy style.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, I'm gonna give you this one. You never guess it. Juvenile, 400 degrees juvenile had a lot

[Max Kellerman]

of radio friendly type songs, for sure.

[Rich Paul]

400 degrees is one of the best rap albums of all time. There's no if, ands or buts about. I don't care what no historian says. I'm just telling you, go through it.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, I will, I will. You ready for a rant?

[Rich Paul]

I mean, you've had six or seven rants. Six, seven.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no.

[Rich Paul]

You did this.

[Max Kellerman]

Is this is the real rant. This is the 5 minute max on Zufa boxing.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Which I'm a part of.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. So you missed the bias the other way now.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure. So what's going on right now is there are promoters in boxing are flailing against Zufa. One of them is Eddie Hearn. Another is Oscar De La Hoya, who, you know, I usually have a good feeling about them. I think that, you know, I, I've never said. I don't think I've ever said anything bad about Eddie Hearn publicly or.

[Rich Paul]

But we knew this was Stephen. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

I really, I don't really have bad things to say about him or Oscar De La Hoya, who I loved as a fighter and was. And was very impressed with him as a promoter, especially early on. I may have been critical of Oscar as a promoter through the years here and there because no one's perfect. But they have been going at Zufa and mentioning me by name. They've been going after Zufa and talking wild about me. Right. And I want to respond to that right now, Rich, in the history of broadcast. Well, and let me just say, Eddie Hearn was talking wild about not just me, but especially Nick Khan and Dana White, right. Who were running Zufa. And of all the people you want to talk wild about, like, why would you choose those two guys?

[Rich Paul]

People talk wild all the time. I get the same stuff, by the way. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But then the next day, one day after Eddie Hearn was talking wild, one of his big fighters, Connor Benn, signed with Zufa. And literally the next day after, he's talking all this stuff about Zufa's nothing and da, da, da, da. The next day, he's literally choking back tears talking about Connor Ben. At least it seemed that way to me. Leaving. You can't talk wild on Monday and be crying on Tuesday. You can't be talking about how on Monday these guys suck and they're nothing and I'm so much better on Tuesday crying about a loss. Like. And let me explain this, Rich, real quick. Throughout broadcast history or even media history, whenever there's been an expansion, boxing has expanded with it. They've expanded with boxing. So, like when you got the printing press, you know, like newspapers eventually cover boxing, people are interested in it when, with the advent of radio, right. Quickly, radio was filled up with broadcasts of fights. Same thing with television. Quickly, boxing was in the mainstream because boxing, compared to other sports, because it's one on one, is relatively inexpensive to produce compared to like basketball, football, baseball. Right. And it delivers a reliable number so whenever broadcast expanded, it expanded with boxing and it brought it to the masses and boxing blew up. Then at a certain point, what was the next thing after tv, it was cable tv. And now for the first time, the history of broadcast meant a more niche audience instead of a wider audience. And it expanded with boxing for the reason I had mentioned. But now boxing, because it's expanding on cable, is more of a niche. It moves a little bit out of the mainstream. And then premium pay cable expanded with boxing. HBO distinguished itself from everything else. We're not just playing movies, we have the best fights on. Right? And now boxing was more marginalized and the business strategy starts to become who are the hardcore fans? Let's milk them for everything they have. So that's the business model and it's schwab shrinks in the mainstream cuz it's now more off broadcast, more off cable, more on premium pay cable. And so it shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. And then you got an explosion of sanctioning bodies and weight divisions. Right? Because how do we promote this if it's so like the mainstream doesn't care about it anymore? Oh, it's a title fight. So you have two titles, then three, then four titles. Then you have junior divisions between every division, 17 division, 18, 19 division, four titles in each division. Who's the champ? Right. People get confused, but they need to do it because as I always say, short term incentive beats long term incentive. We have to promote a fight today. How do we do that? We'll call it a championship fight. And so that's why you have all these belts. No one knows who the champion is. Sometimes a so called champion of a sanctioning body is really the 8th best fighter in the division, Stuff like that, right? And it gets more and more marginalized. Now what do promoters, even good ones like Eddie Hearn or Oscar De La Hoya, what does the status quo mean for them? Well, they're the promoters now, so they're obviously benefiting from the status quo. That's why they're in business. But the status quo is not good for boxing or boxing fans.

[Rich Paul]

That's why it's in the history.

[Max Kellerman]

Remember I took you through the history of broadcast. For the first time ever, before Zufa, boxing got on the air, boxing was completely off broadcast TV in the United States. None of the big streamers. No one had boxing in the U.S. think about that. You can't find boxing on TV for the first time ever. That's how pushed to the margins it became. Now Check this out. What is the next step in broadcast? Right? Remember, boxing expands with broadcast. So first it got bigger radio, television, then it got more marginalized cable tv, pay per view, you know, eventually. Pay per view?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Streamers, streaming platforms. People don't look at, like, cable tv once upon a time. That bill that you pay for streaming for almost everyone nowadays is like your electric bill or like your water bill or, you know, it's a utility. You kind of consider everyone has it baked in.

[Rich Paul]

Everyone has it.

[Max Kellerman]

Netflix has literally hundreds of millions of subscribers.

[Rich Paul]

We're 100 million, probably. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

You're approaching half a billion subscribers.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

And now what's happening? They're expanding with boxing. So now boxing for the first time is on platforms that's growing and bringing it to the mainstream. So what happens in this new moment? Right, like, who's gonna. Well, Zufa steps in and says this status quo that has been benefiting a few promoters and a few fighters, but really has marginalized boxing and isn't serving boxing fans. That's not working. Here's the new game. And guys like Eddie Hearn or Oscar De La Hoya who are flailing and insulting like Dana White and Nick Khan. I don't know why you'd pick those two guys to have a fight. Max and me. Me either. You really don't want it. What they haven't understood is the game is already over. They just don't know it.

[Rich Paul]

The game over.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over, game over. They just don't know it. And my best advice to them would be don't talk a wild on a Monday and literally cry on a Tuesday. When you take a loss, what you should be doing is literally minding your business. Well, I was minding my. They took our fighter.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

No, no.

[Max Kellerman]

The fighter was a free agent. He could go wherever he wants. You don't own that fighter. Mind your business. And here's the other thing. With Zufa now, the tide for boxing on streamers is gonna rise. A rising tide lifts all boats 100%. Don't flail around and have your boat sink. Get with the program. Right? That's my advice to them. But what you can't do is talk a mess on a Monday and cry on a Tuesday.

[Rich Paul]

Well, you know, look, one thing I won't do, I'm bet. One thing I will do, I'm betting with Dana and I'm betting with Nick. Yep. And obviously I'm rolling with Max. But I will say this before we get to the emails and wrap it up. You know, oftentimes people critique People, they talk crazy. They do a lot of things. But I look at it in terms of understanding their frustration. And within that frustration, what I suggest you do is you identify. Okay. Where this thing is going. Right. How much value it actually has. And if it has value, then how can I, one, be of added value to it or two, or not or two and two, get myself in position to benefit from it.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Those are only two things you have. Because this idea that someone can't go here and you can, that's business. Right. Business is done every day on the lowest of levels and on the highest of levels. But that's how I've always looked at it. And I go through these same things myself. People talk about me every day. What else is new?

[Max Kellerman]

I've noticed it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. What else is new? So. But I'm betting with Dana and Nick and obviously I'm rolling with Max, so.

[Max Kellerman]

But I bet on Dana and Nick, too. It's why I'm involved.

[Rich Paul]

And things and all things evolve. But let's get to the emails because I don't want to go without getting these emails. And we're already at an hour.

[Max Kellerman]

Ready for this?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Adam. Ass. So we're in overtime.

[Rich Paul]

Win overtime. Email should be overtime.

[Max Kellerman]

My question for both of you, is there a player today who's being underappreciated right now but will be viewed differently 10 years from now? And if so, who is that player for you? I got one.

[Rich Paul]

Who? Pascal Siakam.

[Max Kellerman]

Siakam does a lot, lot of really good things and he's on a lot of winning teams.

[Rich Paul]

His teams make wise 10 years from now and people are going to.

[Max Kellerman]

I think he's one of these dudes who like. No, it's not that he's going to be talked about more.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

But the wise heads are going to be like Pascal Si.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, we're going to say. We're going to say. Notice I'm including myself in wise heads. We're going to say a guy like Pascal Siakam is a guy you once needed on your team.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

Like we were talking about last night, we were talking about which wings because like these guys bring.

[Max Kellerman]

We were saying Rick Fox.

[Rich Paul]

We were saying Rick Fox.

[Max Kellerman]

Rick Fox. Who you. Right. You said to me last night, every team you need to be if you want to pick a championship team, you need to see do they have a Rick Fox on the team. Rick Fox, meaning high iq, does a lot of things really well, is willing to accept the role and is a

[Rich Paul]

winner, a little bit more modern. A Trevor Reza. Trevor Ariza, you could add a Trevor Reza to your team. He's going to guard, he's going to hit threes, et cetera when he was in his prime. And now you're saying Siakam is one of Those.

[Max Kellerman]

Is averaging 20 plus a night for no Siakam for years now the thing

[Rich Paul]

I like about Siakam is he got better and better and better and people. I wouldn't say as a player but I will say as a team. And the team I'm going to Pick is the 2019 Raptors.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Well, Siakam.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Because that team was a lot better than people give it credit for. A lot better. Masai and team did an unbelievable job.

[Max Kellerman]

Siakamu's the second best player on the team

[Rich Paul]

some nights. Some nights he was Fred, some nights it was Kyle. Yeah, it just depends, you know.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, how's this? Rob says love your show. How about this for next year's All Star Game? Three teams. U.S. international, Kentucky. Hold on, wait, wait. Kentucky. Listen. International. Wemby, Luca, Giannis, Joker, Avido.

[Rich Paul]

I know what he's saying.

[Max Kellerman]

Sengun.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Giddy. Right. Siakam US JT, JB Brunson, Homegren, Curry, Mitchell, LeBron, KD, Ant, Halliburton. Check out Kentucky.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I don't like that he's forgetting a couple guys.

[Max Kellerman]

Sga, Maxi, F. Fox, Murray, Booker, Kat, Ad, Bam and Randall. Yo Kentucky.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not mad at that at all. I'm not mad at that at all.

[Max Kellerman]

Kentucky.

[Rich Paul]

But are all those guys he just named all Stars too, right? Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm just saying if you put that team together that is a competitive team with the world or the US well

[Rich Paul]

what is a cool idea is you do world US and then you pick a all time team from a specific university. Huh.

[Max Kellerman]

But I don't know if, I don't

[Rich Paul]

know if everybody can keep up like that.

[Max Kellerman]

Maxi, Fox, Murray, Booker, Cat, Ad, Bam, Rich. They got guards, they got forwards, they got bigs.

[Rich Paul]

And that's where when Perk made the comment. Don't get me wrong, Darius Acuff is really good but he made the comment about the best guard that Cal has ever had. I don't know man. I mean I don't think I know a cup and my man Rashad probably was like now wait a minute. But but yet and still is is it's a great political speak is mine.

[Max Kellerman]

That's for sure.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah. Hilarious. Hilarious. But it's great. It's a great company to have. That's a. That's an incredible compliment To a guy

[Max Kellerman]

like Darius Acuff says three competitive teams that would all be playing for something they care about. I think I have to see this. Yo, Kentucky.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not mad at it.

[Max Kellerman]

Kentucky competes with the world and the U.S. that's crazy.

[Rich Paul]

Well, that puts a lot of pressure on the current Kentucky to keep this up.

[Max Kellerman]

You're right. Andrew says or writes KD discussion misses a key piece of context that changes how that whole summer looks. That year the warriors had the best record in the league, but spurs had the second best record. Then Kawhi injury happens and the entire balance of power shifts.

[Rich Paul]

That's true.

[Max Kellerman]

My argument is simple. KD to the warriors doesn't even happen if the situation as a situation he wanted because the league felt different when one real counterweight to Golden State got knocked out. Do you think the Kawhi injury is the overlooked domino that changed the KD outcome and the way fans judge it today?

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Wow.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a good point.

[Rich Paul]

That's a great point.

[Max Kellerman]

Because the spurs with Kawhi, they was

[Rich Paul]

probably going to go up. They was up one already.

[Max Kellerman]

I think the spurs with Kawhi could

[Rich Paul]

have run the table first game.

[Max Kellerman]

Uh, it was early in the series.

[Rich Paul]

He got injured in the first game.

[Max Kellerman]

Was it in the first game?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. You know what's interesting about that? Dejounte Murray, I think was in his rookie year and he hadn't played. Was that his rookie year? Yes. Yes. He hadn't played up really all year. He was in the G League. I think TP got hurt and he ended up starting in the Western Conference finals, which is crazy.

[Max Kellerman]

Blake writes, how insane is it that Eli Manning, who not only statistically, per Nate Silver, is the most clutch QB ever and per strength of playoff schedule, won two rings facing the toughest playoff schedule ever, is still not in the hall of Fame? Also Mount Rushmore of the NFL.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, Eli should be in the hall of Fame.

[Max Kellerman]

He should definitely be in the hall of Fame. And this I hold up. He had an Ironman streak going. He had one of the most. One of the longest consecutive games played streak he played.

[Rich Paul]

What just happened? The hall of Fame is getting a little.

[Max Kellerman]

He played in a outdoor windy place, right? It's not like Drew Brees. He's indoors in a. In a dome.

[Rich Paul]

There's people in the hall of Fame less accomplished, right? Eli Manning.

[Max Kellerman]

Eli Manning. Two super bowl wins. What? This? What? What? Who. Who was it who just said. Blake just said. But also I saw some stat recently, I think on social media where he had more. What they Call big time throws. Maybe it was through the. Through a playoff series than anyone in history. And I think number two was Drew Brees. And it was like he almost doubled what Drew Bre. Like in terms of big time throws he made. Come on. Also, who's on the Mount Rushmore of the NFL? Close the show with that one.

[Rich Paul]

Who's on the Mount Rushmore?

[Max Kellerman]

I'll tell you three players who have to be on it immediately. And then the four slots open, we can debate.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Tom Brady has to be on the Mount Rushmore.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Joe Montana. Because to me, it's not clear that Tom Brady's greater than Joe. He lasted.

[Rich Paul]

That's two quarterbacks.

[Max Kellerman]

That's two quarterbacks. Lawrence Taylor's got to be. Now you got a fourth slot open and a lot of candidates. You got Jim Brown, you got Deion Sanders, you got Reggie White, you got. You got, you know, Aaron Donald. I like defensive players. You know, Jerry Rice, the greatest offensive player maybe ever. Lot of guys.

[Rich Paul]

That is a tough one.

[Max Kellerman]

It's a tough one.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know the answer to that. I think.

[Max Kellerman]

I think I gotta go. Jim Brown.

[Rich Paul]

Jim Brown.

[Max Kellerman]

I think I gotta go.

[Rich Paul]

Well, you can't never lose with Jim Brown.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I think so.

[Rich Paul]

Can't never lose.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a tough one, though.

[Rich Paul]

And speaking of Cleveland, shout out to the gold medalist. Both our men's and women's team won the gold medal. And on top of that, U.S. hockey.

[Max Kellerman]

We're talking about U.S. hockey now.

[Rich Paul]

U.S. women's hockey. Lailah Edwards, who is from Cleveland. Cleveland strikes again, Max. Cleveland strikes again.

[Max Kellerman]

U.S. hockey team.

[Rich Paul]

And she's also the first black woman to win. First black American woman to win a gold in women's hockey. Cleveland. Cleveland. There's a lot of.

[Max Kellerman]

Listen, I like Cleveland.

[Rich Paul]

Don't front on Cleveland.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't front on Cleveland.

[Rich Paul]

And for the sake of Dean, don't front on Cleveland Heights either. Cleveland.

[Max Kellerman]

First pro. Cleveland.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't like when you say, where are you from? I'm from Cleveland, man. You're from Cleveland. Okay? Cleveland Heights is a sub.

[Max Kellerman]

He's trying to like.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

He's trying to separate it out. You're from Cleveland a little bit.

[Rich Paul]

Get out of here.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not with the riff raff type stuff. I'm. I'm different.

[Rich Paul]

You're from Cleveland. I don't want to hear you talk about I'm from Cleveland Heights, Ohio, anymore.

[Max Kellerman]

You're from Cleveland, right?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Just claim Cleveland. What are you doing? Oh, that. Good point.

[Rich Paul]

No, those are Two different cities.

[Max Kellerman]

You said Akron.

[Rich Paul]

That's two different cities.

[Max Kellerman]

It is.

[Rich Paul]

I'm from Ohio. No, Cleveland Heights is a suburb.

[Max Kellerman]

Problem with saying Cleveland Heights is a different thing is it got Cleveland in the name. Yeah, that's the problem.

[Rich Paul]

Well, but to his defense, I do say people ask me where I'm from. I don't say I'm from east Cleveland. I say I'm from the east side of Cleveland, Ohio.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, he's from the Cleveland. Although he's from the Heights.

[Rich Paul]

I got a lot of love in East Cleveland.

[Max Kellerman]

You go east, he goes high.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, no, I just like to give him shit. Cleveland Heights is great.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, that's right.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that's right.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, that was. He just reminded us that LeBron James scored his 43rd thousandth point last night. We were there.

[Rich Paul]

But the significance of that is that's points. Because I think Kareem had 38,000 points that he broke that record. But then the total points with that was a regular season points. I think the points. And so now Lebron. But he's going to break a record every night at this point.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait, so now LeBron broke Kareem's.

[Rich Paul]

No, he just has the most total points in NBA season, by the way.

[Max Kellerman]

Total points absolutely is a thing. I don't believe in just counting regular season because if you're a super great player, you're going to the playoffs in the NBA.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. 43,000 points. As not to have 43,000 points and not be considered a scorer.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's stupid.

[Rich Paul]

It's a little wild.

[Max Kellerman]

It's stupid.

[Rich Paul]

It's crazy. But great show, Max. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. See you on Wednesday.

[Rich Paul]

Good. Monday.

[Max Kellerman]

See you on Wednesday. You see you on Wednesday. We won't see you. But you'll see.

[Rich Paul]

We'll have more. We'll have more emails. Yeah. And we got to get to gifting suite together.

[Max Kellerman]

Gotta figure that out. So. So here's the. The actionable items here are gifts we gotta get. We're doing the emails. We're doing the emails as promised. We're doing more on Wednesday.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. And we're gonna talk about something on Wednesday. We just said we're gonna talk about. We said we're going to save it for Wednesday.

[Max Kellerman]

We did, but I don't remember.

[Rich Paul]

But we'll.

[Max Kellerman]

We'll listen to the show and figure it out.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, cool. 400 degrees. Listen to it today.

[Max Kellerman]

I will.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Max Kellerman, Rich Paul. Game over.

[Rich Paul]

Game [e-mail] Please continue to subscribe.

[Max Kellerman]

Tell your friends. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster zero Ultra.

[Rich Paul]

That's the OG it kicked off this

[Max Kellerman]

whole Zero Sugar energy drink thing, but Ultra is a whole lineup now. Now you've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise and Vice Guava, and they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar. Tap the banner to learn more. This week, the PGA Tour's Best Players Go Prime Time with TGL, presented by SoFi in doubleheader action, Atlanta Drive takes on both Boston Common Golf and Los Angeles golf club, plus two primetime matchups on Tuesday. Keep up it's golf. Tune in Monday and Tuesday at 5pm and 9pm Eastern only on ESPN, ESPN2 and the ESPN app.