Jayson Tatum Returns! NBA Notes and NFL Roster Shake-Ups.

Summary

Game Over With Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: Jayson Tatum Returns! NBA Notes and NFL Roster Shake-Ups

Date: March 9, 2026
Host: The Ringer
Summary compiled by podcast summarizer

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Episode Overview

Max Kellerman and Rich Paul dive into the urgent sports and culture topics of the moment, tackling everything from changes in the nature of fact-checking and "truth," Jayson Tatum's impact on the Celtics, to major NBA and NFL roster maneuvers. Their signature mix of candid banter, insider experiences, and big-picture analysis yields insights on ecosystems in personal growth, the maturing NBA MVP race, playoff team chemistry, and more.

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Major Discussion Points & Timestamps

1. The Decline of Fact-Checking and "Truth" in Media and Society

Timestamps: [00:45]–[05:11]

• Rich Paul initiates a conversation on the erosion of fact-checking in public discourse, relationships, and especially sports:

  "Do you think there's fact checking anymore at anything? ...I think just like in sports for sure, there's no fact checking. People just blabbering out anything."
  — Rich Paul [00:48]

• Max Kellerman contextualizes:

  "Now everyone has a platform and who's to say what is legitimate and what's not legitimate?...If you get post truth where there is no truth, that's how people feel, because people are constantly lying about stuff, then they kind of give up and they don't care anymore."
  — Max Kellerman [02:24]

• Both agree society has gone "post-truth" and propose a recurring fact-checking segment for the show, emphasizing their responsibility to "give the real" to their audience.

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2. Jayson Tatum’s Return and the Celtics’ Playoff Trajectory

Timestamps: [06:12]–[10:55]

• Max and Rich discuss the impact of Tatum’s return:

  "Rich Tatum is back and I gotta say, so far better than I thought it would look."
  — Max Kellerman [06:12]

  "But it's Jayson Tatum. And he's not, you could see he's not 100% and it's still really, really good."
  — Max Kellerman [06:23]

• Importance of playoff matchups; Celtics depth and roster management, specifically the value Peyton Pritchard brings off the bench as rotations tighten [07:05–07:34].

• Projection/debate: Will Tatum regain full form by playoffs, or risk "hitting a wall"?

  "Is Tatum going to hit a wall?...Or is he going to get in the swing of things and be more fully himself by the time the playoffs come? Because that's going to determine the East."
  — Max Kellerman [08:50]

• Rich’s insider take: Attention should be paid to how the injury/rehab process is managed minute by minute—behind the scenes, it’s all about muscle response, soreness, and physical trend lines [09:08–09:57].

  "We have to pay attention. In a week from now, will we see him play 32 minutes?"
  — Rich Paul [09:08]

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3. Team Chemistry, Losing Streaks, and Leadership

Timestamps: [10:56]–[14:18]

• Detroit Pistons’ losing streak: Rich is less panicked than fans over a mid-season slump, citing key injuries and emphasizing the critical lens of being inside the locker room for real assessment.

• Max on team dynamics: Even great teams have periods of finger-pointing or disarray during slumps—how they recover is what counts.

• Leadership’s origin:

  "I think it starts with the best player, really. And it starts with the camaraderie of the group... Like Marcus Smart, for example... the type of guy that will go in the locker room after a four game losing streak and say, it's all right fellas, we good."
  — Rich Paul [13:48]

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4. "Get Rich Quick": The Power of Your Ecosystem

Timestamps: [16:14]–[24:32]

• Rich Paul explains how ‘ecosystem’ shapes personal and professional growth:

  "Ecosystems matter, man. It matters in business. It matters in your friendship... If you want to evolve, right, it takes you to start thinking a different way."
  — Rich Paul [16:14]

• On outgrowing old environments while honoring authentic roots:

  "I would have the real conversation to say I'm not doing none of the above, obviously, you know, I can't be in the same environment that I came from on a daily basis. That doesn't make sense. You go from predator to prey, so that doesn't work." — Rich Paul [19:59]

• Rich’s advice: It’s not about money; it’s about mindset and maximizing effort in whatever your pursuit is, equating it to playing defense in basketball [21:42].

• Memorable moment:

  "This is what you dreamed of. 71 Chevelle Wilshire corridor. 70 degrees, listening to Bourbons and Lacs by Master P. This is what you wanted to do."
  — Rich Paul [23:30]

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5. Western Conference & MVP Debates: Wemby vs Jokic, Celtics, Jaylen Brown

Timestamps: [24:45]–[31:59]

• Spurs Analysis: Max is bullish on Spurs as favorites; Rich is measured, noting their run reminiscent of a blackjack hot streak due to successful draft hits and chemistry from veteran additions.

• MVP Race:

  "It's going to come down to the two best players in the game. It's either Wemby or Jokic. Those are the two."
  — Max Kellerman [25:26]

  "I'm not going to let you skip over Jaylen Brown being in the MVP race just because I'm not."
  — Rich Paul [26:06]

• Wemby’s Defensive Impact:

  "He affects everything. Not the shot, your thought process before you even take the shot, which slows you up."
  — Rich Paul [28:44]

• Future of Spurs: If young core stays healthy, Max foresees dynastic potential, taking the "future dynasty" mantle from OKC [30:43].

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6. Lakers, LeBron, Luka, and Team Synergy

Timestamps: [31:39]–[38:13]

• Lakers beat Knicks without LeBron:

  "The Lakers actually won the game yesterday."
  — Rich Paul [34:06]

• Debates on Team Function: Observing that Lakers’ offense sometimes performs better without LeBron, with Austin Reaves and Luka sharing the floor, Max presses on why this is and wonders about synergy and roles. Rich pushes back, focusing on the present game, not speculative narratives [37:06].

• Role players shining:

  "Jackson Hayes was great yesterday. He was active. He was on both ends of the floor."
  — Rich Paul [35:56]

• Reflections on star vs. role-player mentality: Buy-in to playing the "star in your role," referencing DeAndre Ayton’s reluctance compared to Clint Capela [36:01].

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7. "Five Minute Max": The Clippers’ Cap Violation ("Cap-Gate")

Timestamps: [39:29]–[43:34]

• Max outlines the Clippers’ situation, suggesting the league’s rules force owners’ money into indirect advantages (coaching, facilities, trades).
• On the penalty:

  "If you want to punish them, fine him. Give him an enormous fine. ...the actual crime is. It's a victimless crime. In fact, it actually made everything better for everyone."
  — Max Kellerman [42:37]

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8. NFL Shakeups: Max Crosby to Ravens, Dolphins Release Tua

Timestamps: [43:34]–[47:52]

• Crosby to the Ravens: Both agree the Ravens are going "all-in" for a Super Bowl window with this move.

  "Max Crosby is a big addition. He's a beast."
  — Rich Paul [44:31]

• Dolphins release Tua:

  "Has Tua had a successful career? ...He ran the offense well. I think he's had a nice NFL career so far."
  — Max Kellerman [45:24]

• Rich cautions against writing off careers too soon, drawing parallels with Sam Darnold’s path [46:24].

• Jalen Hurts/Tua comparison: Importance of resilience, not just talent [47:00–47:52].

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9. Michael Jordan on the GOAT Debate

Timestamps: [48:02]–[48:44]

• Jordan’s downplaying of the GOAT debate:

  "What a goat answer from Michael Jordan. Only a goat would say something like that."
  — Max Kellerman [48:10]

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10. Nuggets, Jokic & Murray: The Two-Man Game

Timestamps: [48:51]–[51:59]

• Stat highlight:

  "Number one in the league...is Jamal Murray to Jokic. Number four...is Jokic to Murray. That is insane. I've never heard of anything like that."
  — Max Kellerman [49:28]

• Discussion of historical great big-man/court general duos; Jokic’s impact as a passing center [50:56].

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11. Listener Emails

Timestamps: [52:02]–[61:00]

• Fact-checking, memory lapses, and music trivia: Friendly ribbing (Blahzay Blahzay vs. J Ruu) [52:03–54:11].
• Hornets’ future and Warriors comparison: Potential, but need playoff test.

  "I think the Hornets is a little bit premature of that, per se."
  — Rich Paul [55:31]

• Max throws out a "hot take" (contrived for social media clipping):

  "Josh Allen is not a top 10 quarterback in the NFL."
  — Max Kellerman [60:13]

• Best boxing weight class: Both agree, it's welterweight [61:00–62:28].

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12. Ants or Roaches?

Timestamps: [63:37]–[64:51]

• Marcellus Wiley’s old debate:

  "I'd rather have ants and roaches. I dealt with enough roaches in my life physically. Literal roaches and people that I found out were roaches."
  — Rich Paul [63:45]

• Max: "I'd rather have a thousand ants than a roach." [64:20]

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13. Studio Banter and Closing

Timestamps: [65:11]–[68:18]

• Clothes, fashion, and personal style; Rich teases Max’s minimalism.
• Excitement about the new studio.
• Show wraps with playful tech struggles (Geek Squad reference).

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Notable Quotes

• On Fact-Checking:

  "Because the whole purpose of creating this show was to give the real. The actual game. So if the game is fake, then it's really over at that point."
  — Rich Paul [04:58]

• On Changing Ecosystems:

  "You don't have to change cities. You could just change your ecosystem, change the environment..."
  — Rich Paul [17:53]

• On Enjoying Success:

  "This is what you dreamed of...And now you're here complaining. Stop it."
  — Rich Paul [23:41]

• On Wemby:

  "He affects everything. Not the shot, your thought process before you even take the shot..."
  — Rich Paul [28:44] "You have to really be aware of your surroundings. What's his nickname? Dark Alley."
  — Max Kellerman & Rich Paul [29:47–29:51]

• On Social Media and Clipping:

  "Because what happens in social media is they clip just what they think is going to be, you know, like, they can sensationalize anything by clipping the part out of context and getting a reaction."
  — Max Kellerman [59:20]

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Key Takeaways

• The loss of fact-checking and the rise of "post-truth" in media is a pervasive issue, affecting all walks of life, including sports.
• Jayson Tatum’s recovery and the Celtics’ health/rotation management make them possible title favorites if positive trends continue.
• Spurs are emerging as a new powerhouse, with Wemby as a generational MVP candidate.
• Team chemistry, leadership, and role buy-in ("star in your role") remain crucial in both NBA and NFL contexts.
• Personal and professional growth depends on your ecosystem—changing who/what surrounds you is central to success.
• Social media enables misrepresentation and out-of-context hot takes, yet also democratizes who gets to be "heard"—the show's proposed fact-checking segment is an attempt to help restore credibility.
• Listener engagement, music/boxing/sports trivia, and playful banter are essential to the show's tone.

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For listeners who missed the episode:
This installment is quintessential Max and Rich—blunt, insightful, and wide-ranging, blending locker-room wisdom, real-life lessons, and witty cultural observations. If you care about the intersection of sports, media, and society—or just want to hear two masters riff—the episode’s fast pace and sharp wit make it a must-listen.

Transcript

[Max Kellerman]

This episode is brought to you by Loom. When your calendar is all status meetings and your teams are still misaligned, it's easy to feel stuck. Get your org unstuck with Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian. Record a Loom to share priorities, feedback and key decisions. AI makes video editing one click and adds instant summaries so everyone from direct reports to partner teams gets clarity in minutes, not meetings. With Loom, teams stay aligned and focus on work that matters. It's a team changer. Try loom [e-mail].

[Rich Paul]

I want to ask you this question.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Do you think there's fact checking anymore at anything? Because, you know, when I was growing up, like, everything had to be factual, right? You. You kind of like even just in my group, you never wanted to say something that wasn't true or fictitious. It was. And you never wanted to, like, well,

[Max Kellerman]

there are certain things that you couldn't lie on or you. Or it was a problem.

[Rich Paul]

Exactly, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. There's certain things you couldn't lie. And I think of the number one

[Rich Paul]

thing that you could lie.

[Max Kellerman]

Can't lie on it 100%. But, but people always, people are always full of shit, you know, and also

[Rich Paul]

like rent the car and put rims

[Max Kellerman]

on it the way they're tens, but I keep them clean. Right.

[Rich Paul]

Do you think there's fact checking in like relationships? Like if somebody asks a person out the bar and they say, oh, you know, well, what do you do? I'm in. Obviously the number one would be, I'm in real estate. Yeah. You think anybody like says anything after that? Like, well, what brokerage are you with? Or how long you've been in real estate? How many houses did you sell this this month? Or what's your goal for this? Like, let's, you know, when you, when you're at work, let's meet around the corner from the office where you, where you work at. You think there's any. Because I think just like in sports for sure, there's no fact checking. People just blabbering out anything. In sports.

[Max Kellerman]

What is sports? Is that the traditional media or is that social media too?

[Rich Paul]

Across websites, holistically, it's.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Social media changed everything.

[Rich Paul]

Social media changed everything. You think it's social media that changed?

[Max Kellerman]

Mainly, yeah. Because now everyone has a platform and who's to say what is legitimate and what's not legitimate? Right. That comes reputationally after, you know, over time, when people are seen as credible. But you know, you have a president who makes things up and Half the country believes it like constantly then. And people get fatigued, like there's no such thing as truth anymore. So you go, and if you get post truth where there is no truth, that's how people feel because people are constantly lying about stuff, then they kind of give up and they don't care anymore.

[Rich Paul]

And the other thing I realized too is there's no fact checking. So people say anything. Then when the fact does come out after you saying anything, after the saying of anything, people ignore the fact that.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. If it's not what they want it to be.

[Rich Paul]

So we just like to hell with everything then.

[Max Kellerman]

So I saw. So speaking of social media, that's where I get half my information from. Or I don't, you know, I don't believe everything I see on social media, but I do consume a bunch of it doom scrolling right before I go to bed. Right.

[Rich Paul]

It's important for kids for sure.

[Max Kellerman]

So this, there was this one reel that popped up a couple days ago, I want to say, and it was. He's talking about a tribe somewhere that can't state a fact. The language is set up in a way where you can't use a verb until you qualify it with either I saw it, I heard it, or something else. It's like you have to explain, you have to ID where you got this information from before you talk about the information, which is kind of interesting.

[Rich Paul]

I think that we should create a segment on this show of fact checking and we should take different things and

[Max Kellerman]

give what's on your mind what happened that brought this about?

[Rich Paul]

Nothing. Nothing, Nothing.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you want. Is it something someone said in the media?

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

Cause you bring up relationships too.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no. I was at dinner last night. I was having a conversation at dinner last night and it just dawned on me and it was a good group of people to have a conversation with. And I just asked a question like do we think anybody fact check about anything anymore? And it became a very interesting topic at the dinner table. And so I was like, you know what, we should have this as a segment on our show. I think it'd be pretty cool.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. All right. You want to do a fact checking segment?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think it'd be great.

[Max Kellerman]

Should we be fact checked by the.

[Rich Paul]

Sure. 100%.

[Max Kellerman]

By the listeners, by the viewers? The audience.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Because the whole purpose of creating this show was to give the real. The actual game.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

So if the game is fake, then it's really over at that point.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, let's start the show.

[Max Kellerman]

This episode of Game over is Presented to you by Loom. If your organization runs on endless email threads and status meetings, teams feel stuck unstuck them. With Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian teams record their screen and share a link so others review on their own time. AI makes recording and editing one click and add summaries, action items and searchable transcripts so everyone gets clarity in minutes, not meetings. Replace unnecessary meetings, speed up approvals and onboard faster. With Loom, you remove communication friction. It's a team changer. Try loom [e-mail]. Rich Tatum is back and I gotta say, so far better than I thought it would look.

[Rich Paul]

I tried to told you. I really tried to tell you that. I mean what I don't know what people expect like at the end of

[Max Kellerman]

the day hitting the ground running.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But it's Jayson Tatum.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. And he's not, you could see he's not 100% and it's still really, really good. Are they the best team in the east right now? If he does this, I think beat the Mavs and the Cavs. If it ends in aves. The Celtics beat you last couple days.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, I said it before he came back and I'll say it with him back. It's just about matchups in the playoffs and with a Boston team that's complete roster, everyone healthy, they're experienced, two guys that can close. The one thing I noticed that it did and we talked about this in one of our earlier, earlier shows, Peyton Pritchard now goes to the bench.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a lot off the bench. Pritchard, you're right. And Pritchard running that second unit is a lot. It's tough and the starter and they even looked at this years ago and I'm sure it still holds true if you have like an all star squad of starters. But it's late in the game and they're playing against a fresh bench. The bench actually has an advantage. When you got a dude like Pritchard coming off the bench, it's a problem.

[Rich Paul]

Well, it's going to allow him to start in his role, which I'm not saying he's a role. He's a, he's a role player.

[Max Kellerman]

He has a hell of a role.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but he has a hell of a role that he can. But also it allows Missoula to stagger Tatum and Brown where he'll. They'll always be on the floor with him. And then your closing unit like depends on if he has it going. Depends on the matchups.

[Max Kellerman]

This is what the Cavs have. The Cavs have two playmakers in the backcourt. So they stagger 48 minutes of playmaker, two bigs who can defend. You stagger 48 minutes of bigs. So you always got a playmaker and a defensive big. And it. And when you close, you got everyone on the floor together.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. And I can guarantee you this. And I don't even know him that well, besides just seeing them. I can guarantee you Peyton Pritchard didn't have one negative response to in the team meeting.

[Max Kellerman]

You want that dude, Joe Maze? Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Because that's a winning attitude.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. To me, what it comes down to with the Celtics, this is so interesting to me because so take Tatum. Celtics without Tatum are a powerhouse in the East. Celtics with Tatum, if everyone's healthy, is the best team in the east, could win a championship. They've done it before. They live in the Eastern Conference finals. But here's what's crazy. Tatum is clearly not Tatum yet. He's a version of Tatum.

[Rich Paul]

He's.

[Max Kellerman]

He has room to grow, as you would say.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

So now we have to project forward to the playoffs. So you have to go weeks into the future now. Is Tatum going to hit a wall? Because he doesn't. Because, you know, your legs, you come back, you haven't been playing ball all season, or is he going to get in the swing of things and be more fully himself by the time the playoffs come? Because that's going to determine the East.

[Rich Paul]

When a player has an injury like he. Like he had and you coming back off that injury, I think what we don't know and obviously what people, most people don't know when they comment on these type of things is, so he's played two games right after. After the first game, how did the Achilles respond? How did the muscles around the Achilles respond? Where was the soreness located at? You know, he's playing 27 minutes a game now, the second game, that if there was. If there was soreness, is there less soreness with a day in between, rest, so and so forth. Those are the type of things that you have to monitor. And then we have to pay attention. In a week from now, will we see him play 32 minutes?

[Max Kellerman]

Right. But you're going through the details, but what you're identifying is, is it going to trend like this or is it going to trend like this in terms of the wear and tear, the fatigue, all that stuff, and the trend of Tatum, like, if he stays just like this, they could still get out of the east if it's flat if it goes up, they really could win the chip this year. And if it goes down, they're not getting out of the East.

[Rich Paul]

One of the things I always do and I tell the guys that I represent, if they're coming back off an injury, just to say the team says it's going to be four to six weeks, eight.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, give it more time.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, just give. So I imagine Tatum was already ready to come back. And knowing him, because I know him very well and knowing the Boston Celtics, who seems to be a tier one organization, that they took that extra time to do all the diligence, but you still have to play.

[Max Kellerman]

Name the tier one organizations.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm not getting into that.

[Max Kellerman]

I'll name them Celtics, Spurs.

[Rich Paul]

That's not the point.

[Max Kellerman]

The point is for this you would say Warriors. I don't know if I put them in the Celtics, spurs tier right now

[Rich Paul]

for this particular topic and talking about Tatum, I imagine all the diligence that needed to be done was done. And he probably could have come back before. So now he's now in this situation. But yeah, like touching on Detroit, you

[Max Kellerman]

know, are they, they have one guy who can score 30. That's the problem.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but, but, but again, coming off the last year, they're in a great spot. JB's doing a hell of a job with that team. And I think the four game losing streak, naturally fans panic. I don't panic about a four game losing streak during the course of an 82 game season. When a team has been playing as well as they've played before, I start

[Max Kellerman]

to get worried, I gotta be honest.

[Rich Paul]

But let me, let me explain to you one, they're missing Thompson.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. That's big.

[Rich Paul]

Which is huge. Which is huge. Another one of those games K did not play.

[Max Kellerman]

So you take that one away and

[Rich Paul]

within a four game losing streak.

[Max Kellerman]

So right, it's a three game losing streak. Take the cable away.

[Rich Paul]

Thompson. I give that one game and then

[Max Kellerman]

I don't give Thompson a game. But that's, but take it into consider. Yeah, two and a half game losing games.

[Rich Paul]

But more importantly, and again, just like I talked about with the injury to Tatum, going to a four game losing streak as it pertains to any team, not just the Pistons, any team. The only way to truly evaluate a four game losing streak is you being inside of that locker room, you being inside of that meal room at the hotels, on the road, you're being inside of the film sessions and really monitoring. Okay, are guys pointing fingers? Is there friction somewhere? Is there a intent on the floor by somebody that is causing us to not really roll the way we've been rolling. If it's just a bad shooting night or injuries or monitoring injuries and things like that, I don't get too weird.

[Max Kellerman]

Even great teams in the middle of dynasties will go through periods where guys are point. Like I think there's this idea that, hey, if you have the right players in the right team, when you hit a losing streak, they don't start to do that. But that's not always the case. Sometimes they do and they got to straighten themselves out.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's a natural thing, but it's how you straighten yourself out. You know, it's like if there's self awareness in the room, great.

[Max Kellerman]

Where's that? So is that that starts with the organization and then you have a kind of a captain on the floor. That, that. That is like an extension of the organization and the coach.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think it. I think it starts.

[Max Kellerman]

Or does it start with the. With the best player?

[Rich Paul]

No, I think it starts with the best player, really. And it starts with the camaraderie of the group. And it's like you get in the locker room and you know, you. It may not. It may not even be the best player on the team. Like you get in the locker room. Like Marcus Smart, for example, right? Marcus Smart to me seems like the type of guy that will go in the locker room after a four game losing streak and say, it's all right fellas, we good, we good. Like you need the right guy, like that mentality. And so I imagine they do have that. I'm not, I'm not worried about that.

[Max Kellerman]

This episode's brought to you by ZipRecruiter. It feels like hiring can take an absurd amount of time and effort, right? Like trying to get drafted into the big leagues or spending months, years training to build up your speed and strength and agility. Or you know how some commercial breaks feel like they take forever. The hiring process can feel just as agonizing. But good news for you, when it comes to hiring, you have the equivalent of a fast forward button. You have ZipRecruiter. Try it free at ZipRecruiter.com gameover ZipRecruiter is ranked the number one hiring site based on G2 most likely. Because ZipRecruiter is so good at what it does, you can find qualified candidates for your role in minutes. And if one really stands out, you can get access to their contact info. To reach out and connect, use ZipRecruiter and save time hiring 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate. Listen to this. Within the first day. And if you go to ziprecruiter.com gameover right now, you can try it for free. It's the best price there is. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com gameover ZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire somewhere out there is a Chevy truck and the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up, they're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit chevy.com truck to explore the lineup. I am interested in this rich because you have a get rich quick today. And I want to know what you mean by ecosystems. It says right here ecosystems. What? What are you talking about?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you and I were having a conversation. I said, oh, this should be a good. This, this would be a good get rich quick. And I always talk to my friends about this too. Ecosystems matter, man. And it matters in business. It matters in. Yeah, in your friendship. Like yesterday, having that conversation that I was able to have is because my ecosystem changed. It's not a matter of stature or financial gain or anything like that. It's just if you want to evolve, right, it takes you to start thinking a different way.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, you mean in life?

[Rich Paul]

In life. Just in life in general. And if and once you start thinking a different way, hopefully leading towards a positive direction, then you have to look around and say, okay, am I also surrounded by the same direction that I'm starting to think in? And if you're not, then now I have to do what I have to change my ecosystem, which essentially is the environment that I'm in, right. If I go to a local bar, and that's my bar, and I go there and I'm sitting there and I'm surrounded by negative energy conversations, you know, it's judgment. Every which way I turn that's going to bring me down in a lot of ways. And so if I get stuck in that, then there's no way I'm going to start progressing to where I actually want to go. But you don't have to change cities. You could just change your ecosystem, change the environment, Go to the local, go to the hotel bar where you may sit next to somebody visiting from Chicago.

[Max Kellerman]

You don't have to go to a bar at all, as a matter of

[Rich Paul]

fact, or you don't go to a bowling alley. But I'm just saying in terms of just socially, look, there's a creek in Cleveland. It's called Euclid Creek. Right. And I always say, even if, even if you're looking from a. From perspective of socially, there's tadpoles there, there's. There, there's frogs there.

[Max Kellerman]

It's an actual ecosystem.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. There's no whales, there's no big eye tuna. Right. You're not going to catch a certain type of fish there if that's what you look.

[Max Kellerman]

So if you're looking for a big eye tuna, don't go to the creek.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

You're not.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a good way to put it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

So there's so much rich. There's so much there. First of all, when you say so, people grow. Hopefully you grow throughout your life. Not everyone does as much as they should, but just as a person. Right. And there's this one dynamic where people around you sometimes try to hold you to the person you were and not allow for your growth. Right. They don't.

[Rich Paul]

And because they're not growing too.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. And maybe that's what they're used to and they don't. Yeah. Maybe they're not growing and they're not. Or they're not growing with you and they don't want to let go of that or whatever. But there's that. So there's that, there's that whole issue. And I think that that's related to the idea that it's hard sometimes to leave your ecosystem for people. And I'm sure this happens to athletes a lot. Where.

[Rich Paul]

Probably the most.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Probably the most. Where your day ones. Right. You're the people you grew up with. Whatever. You forget where you came from. You're not when.

[Rich Paul]

I get that a lot too.

[Max Kellerman]

You get that a lot. Right. So how do you.

[Rich Paul]

I don't buy into that.

[Max Kellerman]

How do you negotiate it with yourself? But some part of you must feel like they were my day ones. That is where I'm from. That is who I was at least. And there's like this feeling in you that you're being disloyal not only to them, but to your old self. Right. As you're growing.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

That is selling out. Especially in your case if you're rising in the world. Right.

[Rich Paul]

But the difference is. And I still have a lot of my same friends from when I was 9 and 10 years old.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Same.

[Rich Paul]

And also I would have the real conversation to say I'm not doing none of the above, obviously, you know, I can't be in the same environment that I came from on a daily basis. That doesn't make sense. You go from predator to prey, so that doesn't work. At the same time, there's no business to get done. I can't do my job while being there. And the reality of it is my friends that are actually my friends, they don't want me there.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. You know, and it's the Good Will hunting scene where. Where Ben Affleck's like, every day I wake up and I hope you're gone because he knows his friend has somewhere to go.

[Rich Paul]

But I'll tell you this. Like, I can honestly say I don't know where I actually had more fun, because I know what that fun without that feeling of being in my environment then and wanting to achieve certain things, I couldn't enjoy it today. The same.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, it's like what's proverb? I forget where it's from. But you can't step in the same river twice. Right. Like, you are partly who you were when you were 9 or 10 years old, but you're not that same person anymore.

[Rich Paul]

But that foundation helped develop.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You know, like the. I guess that. That resilience, that want that. But again, also changing the ecosystem also helps you continue that down that path.

[Max Kellerman]

You certainly change your ecosystem.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I definitely changed my ecosystem. Yeah. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And your life has improved as you've done it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it has. And again, I think, at least in my community, we always equate everything to finances because that's the thing we lack most as a mass. We lack financial stability and careers and all those type of things. And I try not to correlate everything to that because I think that gives people an excuse and a pass. I think I try to correlate things to just having the proper mindset. If you have. You don't have to be rich to treat someone, you know, properly to. To not be judgmental or to not be mean towards them or anything. That's just. That doesn't cost who you are within your. Your character. And you don't have to be rich to think that, hey, you know what? I'm gonna get up today and I'm gonna try to maximize the hours I have. And I'm, you know, if I want to. If I want to get into landscaping, I'm going to do my research on. On landscaping and what it takes the best companies out there. So that don't cost you anything but a want. It's like playing defense it's just effort.

[Max Kellerman]

And I always go to the Dame Lillard line. Dame's a good rapper. Don't believe that. Time is money and money is time. You stay focused, you look up and your money is fine. Right? Like, you just concentrate on what you want to do and you don't have to. Kind of scoreboard.

[Rich Paul]

So last night we were riding, going to dinner, on our way to dinner, and Dean was complaining about something. Like.

[Max Kellerman]

Dean.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Just a pure complaint. And I'm like, what are you complaining about? I'm like. In 96, 95, when you were wearing three polo shirts and a polo jacket to school, you dreamed of this particular moment right here.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

This is what you dreamed of. 71 Chevelle Wilshire corridor. 70 degrees, listening to Bourbons and Lacks by Master P. This is what you wanted to do.

[Max Kellerman]

You dreamed of this. And now you're here.

[Rich Paul]

And now you're here complaining. Stop it.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but don't take the. Some people just like to complain. You can't take it away from them. Don't take it away from him.

[Rich Paul]

But what I'm saying is the man likes to complain. Leave him alone. No, no, but what I said to him is, I said, by the way, the feeling that you want it back then is why you should enjoy it now.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you do want to smell the roses.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that. That's why.

[Max Kellerman]

When I hear people in this business complain, that always drives me crazy, to tell you the truth. Because. Because this is. And I say it from time to time, kids, if you're interested in that, you think, like, hey, that's a great. You're right. Everyone in this business is just getting away with it. Like, you have to. Pocketing the money and. And just hanging out. It's not real work. Everyone. Oh, they're working hard. No one's working hard. That's all bullshit.

[Rich Paul]

Enjoy the.

[Max Kellerman]

This is, like, fun for me.

[Rich Paul]

I'm enjoying everything, right? Big, small. You have to enjoy it.

[Max Kellerman]

So get rich quick. I like that. Yeah. Western Conference. One to the Western Conference.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Eastern Conference.

[Rich Paul]

So stand on business. Let me go to my.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Notes.

[Max Kellerman]

So the spurs dominate the Rockets. The Rockets. When I thought maybe Van Vliet might come back. Because I know someone who told me that he might come back rich. You know who that might be? Who told me that Van Vliet might come back this year?

[Rich Paul]

Van Vliet?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. You had Van Vliet?

[Rich Paul]

No, he told you himself?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but I don't see him anywhere, though, is the thing. And I don't believe in the run

[Rich Paul]

I don't tell you anything. I don't give you any inside information.

[Max Kellerman]

But anyway, look, the spurs. Wemby had 29 and eight. They came back on the Clippers down 25. You know, I don't know if he's MVP or not. I think he might be.

[Rich Paul]

You better know, I.

[Max Kellerman]

It's going to come down to the two best players in the game. It's either Wemby or Jokic. Those are the two. And the Spurs. I don't know why people still act like this is a mystery. The spurs should easily be the odds on favorite. I'm not saying favorite against the field, but the odds on favorite. They have dominated okc. They beat Denver. At Denver, they beat the Rockets. They come back on a bad night against the Clippers and win. I mean, when you lost to the

[Rich Paul]

Knicks, you were a little.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, look, the Knicks may match up well with them. That might be a bad. You know, styles make fights. But in the Western Conference, why would anyone favor a team over the Spurs? We've seen it all year.

[Rich Paul]

Well, two things. One, I'm not going to let you skip over Jaylen Brown being in the MVP race just because I'm not.

[Max Kellerman]

I agree.

[Rich Paul]

Well, you didn't mention him.

[Max Kellerman]

He's in. Jaylen Brown is in. Here's the thing about Jaylen Brown. You have to bring up his name to pay respects, but in the end, he's not the mvp.

[Rich Paul]

That's your opinion.

[Max Kellerman]

You think Jaylen Brown's the mvp?

[Rich Paul]

I think he's played well enough to deserve to be in the conversation and should get some votes.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, right. Exactly. It's the polite thing. It's the respectful thing. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. He should get some votes and maybe

[Rich Paul]

he get the most votes.

[Max Kellerman]

He ain't getting the most votes.

[Rich Paul]

Well, you don't know. Do you have a vote?

[Max Kellerman]

I do not have a vote. Okay, well, if I. I should have the only. I should just as. As with most things, they. It should just be left up to me.

[Rich Paul]

But anyway, it should just be the. So the M stands for Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, that's right.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. Max is valuable play.

[Max Kellerman]

That's right. Max is valuable.

[Rich Paul]

Max is most valuable.

[Max Kellerman]

It's Wemby or Jokic. Okay, It's. By the way, it's Wemby because he plays both ends of the floor.

[Rich Paul]

Here's what I would say.

[Max Kellerman]

Wemby's. Let me see. We don't know who the best player in the game is till the end of the playoffs. Cause Two thirds of the teams play in the playoffs. If you're the best player in the game, your team's not going to miss the playoffs almost no matter who you're playing with, because 2/3 of the team make it. We need to wait till the highest leverage games are over before we say who the best is. But right now, if Wemby has a real good playoff run, that's the best player in the game.

[Rich Paul]

But here's what I would say to you. I would say, as I've been saying, they're just a really good team. I didn't get low when they lost to the knicks because again, 11 game win streak. Legs travel, not sleeping in your own bed. All these things come into play earlier game. All these things come into play when you're. During the course of a season. And I understand that. So I never get too high or too low off a loss.

[Max Kellerman]

You think they're too ahead of schedule to win at all this year?

[Rich Paul]

No, no. I think it boils down to, from what I've seen of late, they've went to less of an equal opportunity and more of a. Okay, in moments, we're going to go to our two man game. We're going to exploit different mismatches or even get the mismatch. It's very difficult to stop De' Ayn and Wemby pick and roll because of Wemby's just ability to do so many different things. It's pop roll. He can make the right pass. I mean, he doesn't even have to take a step to get to the rim. He can just, he can reach the rim from the arc of the foul line.

[Max Kellerman]

It's ridiculous. Not to mention, even before he makes the defensive play, what his presence on the court just means for the other team's offense.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. And then that's the other thing. Like, it's not so much as him just being able to block shots. He affects everything. Not the shot, your thought process before you even take the shot, which slows you up. It's almost like when I used to. We lived at my dad's store. We used to live above the store.

[Max Kellerman]

There was a book.

[Rich Paul]

Right. So there was a doorway in the alley. Our side door came out into an alley.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. When it was daylight outside, you would run out that door and just go on where you're going. Once the sun went down and became dark, you peeked out that door.

[Max Kellerman]

You're saying Wemby is nighttime?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. You have to look around and make sure like you didn't just come out the door with your head down. When you came out that side door, no matter who you were, you can't. Cause it's dark and it's an alleyway. So that's a dark alley. Wemby, you have to really. Yeah, he's a tall, dark alley. You have to really be aware of your surroundings.

[Max Kellerman]

What's his nickname?

[Rich Paul]

What?

[Max Kellerman]

Dark Alley.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, listen, I've. And his, his, his ability, his second jump. You don't even need a second.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait until.

[Rich Paul]

But his.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait until Castle and Harper figure it out. Like they're babies and they're already good.

[Rich Paul]

They're getting there.

[Max Kellerman]

They're babies and they're already figuring out

[Rich Paul]

for you is just what I mean, just because nighting and night out, they're excellent.

[Max Kellerman]

What I'm saying is what percentage of their prime are they in right now? Oh, that's what I'm saying.

[Rich Paul]

Less than. Less than 10%.

[Max Kellerman]

I would say they're. I would say they're over 50%, but they ain't close to 100. Like they're going to get significantly better than they are now. If Wemby stays healthy and that group stays together. It's like it might already be a wrap, let alone going forward. Spurs are people. Everything people were saying about OKC and the future and are they just going to be this dynasty? They're going to crush everyone. That's how I feel about San Antonio.

[Rich Paul]

Well, when you draft the way they drafted and guys come to actually they hit. When you hit on the draft like that, that's like having a run in blackjack. You hitting, you know, it's like you hitting on the draft. And then obviously they traded for Harrison and then obviously traded for de'. Aaron. You got two guys coming in the locker room.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, Harrison bar, nice. But de' Aaron Fox is such an addition because he's a clutch player. Like, end of the game, he's one of the best in the league. You said pick and roll with him. And Wemby is like unfair and he's still relatively young and you know, he's going to be athletic for a while. That's. That's really like that move kind of, you know, the best makes him a killer right now.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. You know the best part about the de' Aaron Fox trade and his addition? He is high production, low ego. That matters.

[Max Kellerman]

Speaking of high production, low ego. Or maybe the other way. Lakers are playing without LeBron, beat the Knicks in LA. Knicks are there all weekend. Right. Maybe it's not the best version of the Knicks.

[Rich Paul]

Nope. Nope. There you go.

[Max Kellerman]

Let me tell you what I've seen. There you go.

[Rich Paul]

Trying to short chase Lakers. Nope.

[Max Kellerman]

Since I opened the floodgates to Luca criticism, right? Everyone started criticizing Luca about complaining on every call. I just want to be very clear. The reason I criticize Luca for complaining on every call is primarily rich. Not even though it's demoralizing or fans don't like it. It's because. And it turned out to be like 90 plus percent of call, 90% of your possessions. You complained to the rest. Because what does it really do? It allows him to not get back on defense. If you're standing there complaining to the refs, you don't have to hustle down the floor. It's like a. Like a bullshit smokescreen kind of thing, right? Where you're being lazy. You don't want to play both ends of the floor. JJ got in Luca's face. And since then, I mentioned it the other day, even though Luka got teed up for. For complaining to the refs. I've seen a better effort from Luka. It doesn't mean he's there yet, but a little less complaining, a little more hustle, and he. And Reaves. This is like a topic on SportsCenter and that kind of. I don't know if it's. I'm using that generically, but people are talking about how the Lakers play when it's just Luka and Austin reaves and not LeBron. And also, I think the criticism of Luka got loud enough, not just from J.J. but from everybody, that maybe he's responding to that now. That's my thoughts on it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, Well, I was at the game, so I can give you my real thoughts. I thought they played.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't have real thoughts because I wasn't at the game.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I mean, I think you, along with others, you know, it's like hot take Max sometimes.

[Max Kellerman]

But a hot take is. I believe what I'm saying. You see what I mean? It may be a hot take. Cause it is. Causes some kind of reaction. But I believe what I'm saying.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, so I support you. I'm your teammate. I support you. But let me give you a different perspective. I was at the game, and I thought that, you know, people want to act like the Knicks lost the game. No, they didn't lose the game. The Lakers actually won the game yesterday. The Lakers won the game.

[Max Kellerman]

It wasn't bad. Knicks was good. Lakers.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. They played a. They played a really good brand of ball. They made threes. I thought the Effort defensively was there just things like flying around, you know, making a guy running a guy off of his spot. That matters, you know, and some days you have to. It has to go your way where every team can't shoot well against you, because for whatever reason, teams shoot well against the Lakers, for whatever reason. Yeah, it's just like a thing where it's like. But. But I'm saying that that's going to be one of the teams you get up for anyway. Like, you're in la, just like when you go to the Garden. I imagine if you. If you've done analytics, which everyone wants to do analytics nowadays, I imagine role players actually play better in a lot of cases in these environments.

[Max Kellerman]

In la, at the Garden.

[Rich Paul]

At the Garden, you know, big, big.

[Max Kellerman]

So usually role players don't play well on the road, but when you're on that stage, it's like you want to

[Rich Paul]

show out for whatever reason. I mean, it's been like that forever, right? And then when you also add to, I'm playing against someone who I looked up to, grew up watching, and you add the LeBron effect to that, that takes it. Everyone wants to say they beat LeBron, obviously, in their career, so and so forth. So they play well. So when you look at these things like that, it does play a role when teams coming in to play the Lakers. But no, the Lakers were great yesterday and they really, again, executed well. I saw a couple plays where, first of all, Jackson Hayes, who everyone. Jackson Hayes was great yesterday. He was active.

[Max Kellerman]

What's asked of him?

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm just saying he was active. He was on both ends of the floor.

[Max Kellerman]

That brings up an interesting point, by the way. You always say, if the star in your role. And I go back to a couple weeks ago when deandre Ayton said they want me to be Clint Capella, and I and others were like you saying that like it's a bad thing. If you were Clint Capella, the Lakers would be better right now. He's not like deandre Ayton. Whatever he thinks his individual skills are, and those are better than Clint Capella. That's a separate conversation. If deandre Ayton would play like Clint Capella used to play, he'd be better than he is now on the Lakers. He would make his team better. And he thinks that that's beneath him. That's a problem. Jackson Hayes doesn't seem to think it's a problem to play his role.

[Rich Paul]

Jackson Hayes was great. Luke Kennard shot it well. But more importantly, always does more Importantly the defensive end. I saw several plays get just simple things like getting back in transition, like sprinting back in transition, taking charges even if they wasn't charges and was a no call. Still you were there at the spot. So I thought it was a really good brand of basketball yesterday and an early game.

[Max Kellerman]

What say to those who point out that with for and this doesn't make sense to me. Rich LeBron among the highest IQ players ever. Luka, sky high IQ. Austin Reaves high basketball IQ. The three of them together should be better than they are. I know it's a small sample size, but Luka with Reaves is a high functioning offense. And somehow when you add LeBron, the offense gets worse. That's almost impossible. How does that happen? LeBron can, although he's not shooting it well this year, but he can shoot from the outside for his position, better than average. He is, you know, a basketball genius. He has size, he can still. He can still run up and down. How does the offense get worse? How is it possible?

[Rich Paul]

I don't know what they're talking about, man. I stopped paying attention to nonsense a long time ago.

[Max Kellerman]

But the fact is the offense does function worse. Like that's what they have to figure out, right? Like how? It can't be.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know. They played well yesterday though. I do know that.

[Max Kellerman]

Good game without LeBron.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Yeah, they did.

[Max Kellerman]

So if you add LeBron, you should get better. Of course.

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[Max Kellerman]

You ready for a five minute max?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Paul]

On What. What's yours on today? Oh, I see.

[Max Kellerman]

The Clippers and cap gate. All right, so here's my thing, Rich. The Clippers are in a position right now where they could be punished by the league because they essentially got caught trying to circumvent the cap. And I mentioned this on Bill's podcast, like, a couple months ago, but it's like Pablo Torres, like Scooby Doo. Right? And. And you know, at the end of the episode, we would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids. Right? He busted Steve Ballmer circumventing the cap in order to get Kawhi Leonard. My point is, it's like a solution to a problem that doesn't actually. That no one really cares about, in the sense that when there's a lot of money in the league, if you cap what owners can spend it on, the money will still find its way to the hardwood, to the floor, to the field of play. The money will find its way there somehow now. So the resources will. So when the NBA signed the previous network deal and all this new money came in, what happened? Coaches salaries exploded. Why? Because you can't pay players above a certain level. But competitive owners are looking for an advantage, so they find the best coaches and give them big contracts. Right. And this is an extension of that. Ballmer is a guy who is willing, who's competitive, and has a ton of. Of money, even by owner standards. And he wants an advantage, he buys the Clippers. Okay, what can I do? I can't pay them any more than I'm already paying them. How do I get a competitive advantage? I'll build a new practice facility. Right. Okay. I'll buy an expensive coach. There's only so much you can do there. I'll overpay for Paul George in terms of resources because it'll help me get Kawhi Leonard. Right. And he traded too much draft capital for Paul George, but he's willing to spend his money and resources in order to give his fans the best product he can. Whether he does it smartly or not, rightly or wrongly, that's what he's trying to do. Oh, can I get a wreck? Can I give Kawhi more money to entice him to come here? Good. If I'm a Clippers fan. Good if you're the league. That's why, like I'm saying, the punishment is a punishment to a. It's a solution to a thing that's not really a problem if you're the league. And Ballmer didn't do it smartly, which he obviously didn't. They gave away a ton of great players in the draft, essentially. For Paul George, who's hurt, not got hurt, not even on the team anymore. For Kawhi, who's missed a lot of time, and they haven't gotten out of the conference to the finals yet. Right. If you're the rest of the league, Clippers aren't that good anyway. So, like, what? No harm, no foul? Why would you be mad about that? Now, the solution, therefore, remember I said, just leave it up to me. I'll decide the MVP and everything. As with most things, I'm going to help Adam Silver out right now. I'm going to give him the answer to the problem. Don't penalize the Clippers in terms of draft picks or anything like that. That's silly. They. You don't want a team to suck for five years, right? And believe me, the Clippers will. Don't do that. You want to punish them? Fine him. Give him an enormous fine. $150 million fine. Bomber will pay it. Just give him some huge fine. If the. If the league is upset that he's using his money to get an unfair advantage, spread his wealth around a little bit and you give it to the other teams, whatever. Make Kawhi a free agent, that's fine, because either he stays put and they have a good player, or maybe better yet, for the Clippers, he leaves, they're out from under a big contract and they can start rebuilding because they're kind of in rebuilding mode anyway. That's the solution. Pablo went and found out. He did. He did a great job. But like, the actual crime is. It's a victimless crime. In fact, it actually made everything better for everyone. And so the punishment should be in line with a recognition of the fact that it really is a victimless crime. I rest my case. On the dot.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I hit five on the dot.

[Max Kellerman]

Come on, man. I'm so nice with this. Oh, that's ridiculous. All right. Max Crosby was traded to the Ravens.

[Rich Paul]

Big, so many ways. It's not good for my Browns.

[Max Kellerman]

But if you. But listen, Minters, the new head coach, and he's a defensive guy from San Diego or from the. From. From the Chargers. But if I get it. Culture. And they have a really good quarterback and they have other pieces, and if you make a trade like this, and Crosby's great and he's in his late. He's 28 years old. He's got a. You know, when start a defensive End starts to get around 30. I started to think that you really want to give up a lot of draft picks for that guy. But if you make this deal, what you're saying, you make this deal when you think this is the last piece to a Super bowl team. Right. Like you're saying over the next two seasons we have to win the Super Bowl. That's why you go all in on a move like this. No, it could.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. No, I think, look, Max Crosby is a big addition. He's a beast. I think they've been right there. They believe in Lamar. Obviously they'll do a new deal with him.

[Max Kellerman]

Just what Lamar needed, another defensive player.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Look, I also can't throw the ball to Max Crosby, but this is a pretty good draft. I know they gave up, they gave up their first round pick this year, right? Yeah. Well they can find some other.

[Max Kellerman]

Other couple first rounds, couple first rounders.

[Rich Paul]

A lot. Yeah, it is a lot. But what you gonna do? You have to work your way towards winning or at least showing that you want to win. So I'm not, I'm not, I'm not mad at that.

[Max Kellerman]

Dolphins release Tua no surprise. Here's the question that I have. Has Tua had a successful career? The reason I put it that way

[Rich Paul]

is

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not saying based on expectations because he was supposed to be, supposed to be. His upside was a left handed Drew Brees. It didn't turn out that way but he had some nice seasons, especially when he had an offensive minded head coach and a lot of weapons at receiver. He ran the offense well. I think he's had a nice NFL career so far. You know, it just doesn't feel that way. Maybe because of what preceded his, where he's drafted, what happened in college.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. And also his career isn't over. So yeah, I think he's, he's done

[Max Kellerman]

his career as a. He ain't gonna be a franchise guy like that's what this says, right. He might start again, whatever, but he's not a franchise quarterback.

[Rich Paul]

You know, Sunshine Anderson has a great song. Heard all before. Heard the same thing about Sam Darnold. He's a Super bowl champion.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's true. That's a good point. Darnold is tall and mobile and you know that ain't to him.

[Rich Paul]

But that's not, I'm just saying to his injury history. I think again, I think we always try to close the door on athletes careers and as long as they're on a roster and are playing, they have a chance and so I'm always just pro athletes.

[Max Kellerman]

You think what Jalen Hurts has done has made not Tua's fault, but has made Tua look worse. They're on the same team. Hertz gets pulled in the middle of a pretty big game and. And I. Sorry, Tua does. Sorry, Hertz does. Tua comes in. Tua's the guy. Tua gets drafted high up in the first round. Hertz goes in the second round. But then Hertz winds up winning a Super bowl and Tua is getting released.

[Rich Paul]

No, I think it. I think they're two separate people, and I think that it just says a lot about Jalen Hurts. It says. Says a lot about who he is. Most people in that position would have had every excuse in the world. They would have threw a temper tantrum. Instead, he did the total opposite. Not only did he. Did he stand there in the moment and be a part of his team. He went to another school, played well, got drafted, was behind. Somebody, allowed them to leave.

[Max Kellerman]

There's going to be a natural comparison.

[Rich Paul]

There could be a natural comparison.

[Max Kellerman]

I think there's uncle quarterbacks in the same big. The biggest college program there is, really. And in the moment of truth, one gets pulled for the other, but the guy who gets pulled goes on to have a better career. That makes the guy who came into the game and one and not look as good. Right. Like, two is not against expectations.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But two, it didn't put himself in the game. Nick Saban made the call.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure. So, yeah, Michael Jordan discredits the whole goat team debate.

[Rich Paul]

Good. Now we can all shut up.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, no, what I would say about Jordan saying, hey, we paved the way for Kobe and LeBron. I wish I could play against those guys and all that kind of stuff. You can't really say who's the goat. He said the same thing during his career, by the way, when he was replacing Bill Russell as the goat and everyone was talking about that. He said, you can't really say that. And you know what I have to say about that, Rich? What a goat answer from Michael Jordan. This is. I mean, only a goat would say. The goat would say something like that. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Look, I have no problem with anything Michael Jordan says as regards to the goat debate. He's a goat. Say whatever you want to say.

[Max Kellerman]

OKC versus Denver tonight. Well, they're going to play to see who the second best team in the West.

[Rich Paul]

No, I think Jamal Murray's out, so it don't matter.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Can you believe that stat? We talked about it the other day. They showed on the, on the broadcast.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, assist. What was it?

[Max Kellerman]

It's every now and then you come across a stat and all stats nowadays kids are. They look for the stat that's gonna make you go oh my God, I can't. He has more home runs by this date than every other combined. Right. Like. And they make you wanna ooh and ah. But this stat is like a once in a generation stat actually.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, it is.

[Max Kellerman]

So the. Of all player to player assists, like how many assists does Max have to Rich. Right?

[Rich Paul]

Zero.

[Max Kellerman]

How many assists? How many assists does whoever Maxi have to Edgecomb, whatever that is. Of all player to player assists, number one in the league, which is unsurprising is Jamal Murray to Jokic. That's number one. He has no player has more assists to any other player that Murray has to Jokic. He has the most. The fourth most player to player assists in the league is Jokic to Murray. That is insane. I've never heard of anything like that. You're.

[Rich Paul]

That's just, that's just. I mean that just says they have a really great two man game.

[Max Kellerman]

But not. Okay, really great's one thing. But we just talked about goats that might be the best two man game ever.

[Rich Paul]

But here's what I'm saying. If you want to talk about cohesiveness and you want to talk about analytics and what says you have a better offense so. Or whatever which guys play better together. Well, there's a stat right there. That stat in itself would tell you a lot, but also the type of. That's a 1 5.

[Max Kellerman]

1 5?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, 15 dynamic.

[Max Kellerman]

What it says the most about is it says the most about Jokic's passing because what center passes like that. Right. And the second most about Murray's scoring ability because usually a point guard who's going to rack up that many assists to the big can't also score at

[Rich Paul]

that level and vice versa. No, I always, I always say to you the big position is so important.

[Max Kellerman]

Guard.

[Rich Paul]

Especially when they can play make. When a big can play make. Most bigs want the ball and they want to just score the ball. But when you can really play make a make. The only other. I'm not gonna say only, but the other one that comes off the top of my head. We'd have to check the stats on this would be Duncan and Parker. I would like to know what their.

[Max Kellerman]

You know, I grew up in an era where watching the bigs because especially when they were young, they all got better and Olajuwon became a great passer. But early on, Patrick Ewing and Olajuwon especially, but also David Robinson, they would throw the ball into those guys, and then those guys would try to score in the Lopez. I didn't. As a kid, I didn't even understand the way it was supposed to work. People would tell me, oh, Bill Walton would make, you know. And then later on, you could see the bigs start to do it. But early on, I just thought that's how basketball was. You threw the ball into the big. It never came out again. The dude put a move on a guy in the post and tried to score.

[Rich Paul]

People don't give Shaq enough credit for Page. Shaq was an underrated passer.

[Max Kellerman]

He was. Yeah, he was absolutely in Orlando and in la.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. He can make the pass.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. All right, you ready to do some emails?

[Rich Paul]

Let's do them. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Deddy Krueger. This is edited down. Rich. Okay, ready. Peace, Max. And Rich. Max, I'm extremely disappointed in you, my brother, being that you were a former hip hop artist signed to Columbia Roughhouse. It's true. The song you and Rich were discussing is not called when the East Is in the House. That's the chorus. The song is called Danger by Blase Blase. And it's not by J Rue, the Damager. Now, I don't remember if we said that it was J Ru song. We were quoting J Rue. Cause that was the sample.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, that's what we're doing. Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

But, yes, I'm aware of Blase Blase, but I gotta. I'm gonna use this as an opportunity, Rich. People get on me. I don't know if they do this with you all the time. Oh, how could you say you forgot that that guy went in that draft? You don't remember that those two went in the same draft? Or remember when we were talking about albums and I said, snoop's first album, Doggy Style, I was like, wait, was that late 80s or early. How could you not know that was early 90s? First of all, I'm old as fuck. When I think about. When I'm. When I think about, like, when an album came out, I'm trying to think, what grade was I in in high school? Or was I in college yet? Or was I still in elementary school or something? And on top of that, Rich, do you know how much information I have up here? It's ridiculous. Sometimes things get funneled into certain channels in my brain, and I have to recall it again. There's too much information up here, Dreddy Krueger.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, well, Max, you Actually should know. You should know.

[Max Kellerman]

You're on Dre's side.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not on. I'm on your side. But you should know. You were signed to Columbia number one. So just with that alone, I do know.

[Max Kellerman]

I just wasn't. We were, you know, remember, blase. I don't. First of all, I don't remember the names of songs. As soon as. As soon as, like, CDC stopped remembering

[Rich Paul]

the name of songs, yeah, I knew it was blase. Blase, but.

[Max Kellerman]

But I remember what number it was on the record. Like, when records and tapes were out, you had to know the names of songs, and then CDs came out. It's like, oh, that's number. Like, if you said, well, this. I know, but like, treasuries of glaciers, of ice. I think that was the 10th track on the purple tape. Right. That was so. But I think of it as the 10th track, actually, because it was what number it was on the CD back then, you know, so.

[Rich Paul]

He got you. You seem very annoyed.

[Max Kellerman]

He's.

[Rich Paul]

He got you.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. He had a nerve.

[Rich Paul]

He hit a nerve, and it's okay.

[Max Kellerman]

He hit a nerve.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. Brandon. Gondo. Max, I wanted to know what you think is the best boxing weight class of all. No, wait, hold on. I skipped one. This is 11. No, Dean, they slipped one extra in. That was 10 back then, huh?

[Rich Paul]

Ice water is number 10.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah, it was ice water. Damn.

[Rich Paul]

So you were wrong again.

[Max Kellerman]

Just a memory thing. It's really a memory thing.

[Rich Paul]

This is why fact checking is important.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's true. It's really just a memory thing.

[Rich Paul]

And, Max, I'm here to tell you from the. Over the last 25 years, you've been wrong twice in one day. You've never been wrong twice in one day before 25 years.

[Max Kellerman]

Looking back. Looking back, all I can say is people think that they're addicted to weed. I really think it's the tobacco paper. I think it's the nicotine in the blunts that does it. That's all I'm going to say about that topic. All right. Luca Bassana says the current Hornets team reminds me a lot of the 201213 warriors, when it was just Steph and Clay. Before Draymond became Draymond, before they got Iggy. Do you see the Hornets as a one, as one or two serious moves away from being a title contender, or am I jumping the gun? I want to know your opinion on this one. That's a good one.

[Rich Paul]

I think he's jumping the gun a little bit, but it's kind of a. Not a tricky question, but it's kind of a layered question. But I do think he's jumping the gun in terms of comparing him to them.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you could tell me the layers,

[Rich Paul]

but I think that when you talk about that team with Stephen Klay, it matters in terms of where those guys were at, like from a maturation perspective in their capabilities, skill set, and obviously their development ultimately. And I think that allowed the system that was implemented to actually work for them. Adding a Draymond they drafted, adding Iguodala, who at the time was not a really huge free agency move, but it all mattered. I think the Hornets is a little bit premature of that, per se.

[Max Kellerman]

But is the nucleus there? Can you. Is the.

[Rich Paul]

Is the.

[Max Kellerman]

Is the DNA there? You know what I mean? Can you. Is it. Is there a program in place that can grow what the warriors were?

[Rich Paul]

Well, I would think that they would have the potential, yes, but you can't say that until we see them in a playoff series.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Let's see them in the playoff series, and let's see how.

[Max Kellerman]

Why? Because they test. They're tested.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Well, here's what I want to look at. At. I want to look at down the stretch. How are possessions being valued? I want to look at.

[Max Kellerman]

What does that tell you about them, though?

[Rich Paul]

That tells me if they're maturing or they're. If they're evolving in the right direction. Right. If. If. If. Two minutes to go in the game, you up three, you can execute every time down the stretch and not to make every shot, but to get the shot that you want, or you coming out of a timeout and you're running the play properly. To me, you have to look at. Clay comes from a basketball household, obviously. So does Steph. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

Both their fathers are good NBA players.

[Rich Paul]

Draymond came from Saginaw Basketball, Michigan State basketball. Family.

[Max Kellerman]

Super high IQ player.

[Rich Paul]

Basketball. Right. Super high iq. So you have to start unpacking a lot of things that gave you insight on why they were able to take that step as soon as they did. And then they also had some key losses in the playoffs. They played the spurs, they played the Clippers, and they learned from those.

[Max Kellerman]

When I look at this team, whatever you want to say about the ball family, to me, their dad taught them how to play the right way, actually, even though the shot looks broken and all that stuff, it goes in and they're. They're high IQ players.

[Rich Paul]

Well, this is what I was going to say on the other side.

[Max Kellerman]

And con Canypple Duke Guy and the whole.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. On the other side, they have two Duke guys. Number one, obviously, Michigan State, with Miles. Yes. Although Lamelo didn't take the traditional route. I agree. Like, he still was brought up. He understands it, understands the game and has and obviously is uber talented. And then you have guys like a Brandon Miller, who, from a size, skill set, capabilities, perspective, he has everything that you want.

[Max Kellerman]

You're saying there's a chance there.

[Rich Paul]

No, I said the potential is there. I said what I would like to see. I would like to see them in an environment where we can evaluate it a little bit more in terms of when the basketball matters.

[Max Kellerman]

You're not saying no, you're just saying, let's see.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's possible. Yeah. Because you're comparing them to.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich Paul says Hornets Next warriors is the headline here.

[Rich Paul]

See, now that's what happens when this clipping stuff happens.

[Max Kellerman]

You said about the fact check.

[Rich Paul]

That's what we should do.

[Max Kellerman]

What we should do is see, we should play like telephone. Right. Let me say something right now to see if people. Because what happens in social media is they clip just what they think is going to be, you know, like, they can sensationalize anything by clipping the part out of context and getting a reaction. And then it.

[Rich Paul]

That's what it's all about. Now, all these. All these platforms are just saying anything.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm going to say something right now. Let's see if it comes back as something I actually said. Okay. Because I don't actually believe this. I'm going to preface it by saying that.

[Rich Paul]

So you don't believe.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't believe what I'm about to say, but I'm going to say it just to see if this comes back as something. Kellerman with the hot take.

[Rich Paul]

And what should I do? Should I agree with you or.

[Max Kellerman]

You know, I would stay out of this one if I were you because I don't want to get you in trouble.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, I'm standing out. I'm standing.

[Max Kellerman]

Josh Allen is not a top 10 quarterback in the NFL. Rich. He's not a top 10 quarterback. If he was a top 10 quarter, if he was a top 10 quarterback, he would advance in the playoffs. I can name you 10 guys who can take their teams deeper into the playoffs than Josh Allen.

[Rich Paul]

And.

[Max Kellerman]

And it's every year, one of these days, he's got to get at least to, like, conference chant. Like, you know, can you get.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, this is definitely getting clipped. This is definitely getting telephoned.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's see what happens for sure.

[Rich Paul]

And for the record, I was high on the Hornets first. I knew the Hornets was going to be buzzing.

[Max Kellerman]

Right, so you knew they were going to be buzzing. But now you want to see if what they're going to be stinging or what's the.

[Rich Paul]

No, now, I mean, to answer his question, the email. I'm just saying. Now, let's see, you know, the next steps.

[Max Kellerman]

Brandon Gondo Max, I wanted to know what you think is the best boxing weight class of all time. If you were to create a pound for pound list, peak weight class, which one do you think would be the best? I'll take this to mean which weight class has produced the most elite pound for pound fighters. And I would say that's welterweight. And I think the reason for that is you can plot any population on a bell curve. Rich, Right. A few people will be really big. A few people will be really small. Most people fall in the middle. From a greater pool of people, you will find greater talent. And welter weights 147 pounds. The average fighting weight of 147 means you're walking around better than 160. The average American male is like 180. Hasn't always been that way, but it's like 180. But boxing will skew a little lighter because if you're a smaller athlete, football, basketball, those things aren't as available to you. But boxing has weight classes, so you'll.

[Rich Paul]

I was always surprised of how much smaller the boxers.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. But in life they're bigger than they fight out by a. By a significant.

[Rich Paul]

Well, when I realized that the 147,

[Max Kellerman]

you're walking around 170.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. And I realized the fighters that I like to see fight were actually like my weight class. I was like, whoa.

[Max Kellerman]

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Tommy Hearns, Terence Crawford, all welterweights, right? You got a lot of welterweights.

[Rich Paul]

All right, so welterweight would be my favorite class.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. And it's. I think it's produced the most of the. Henry Armstrong had the most of the absolute elite. Floyd Mayweather fought there eventually.

[Rich Paul]

What was Duran Myrtle Duran fought at?

[Max Kellerman]

Well, he beat Sugar Ray Leonard at welterweight. Was really a lightweight. But welterweight, you get some of the lighter dudes moving up and some dudes who eventually will be bigger starting there.

[Rich Paul]

One of my favorite fights my dad used to always watch. Hearns, Hagler.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. April Tax Day 1985.

[Rich Paul]

A lot of taxes paid that day.

[Max Kellerman]

Greatest first round of all time. Bartel from Vancouver. Enough is enough. No heart, no joy, no effort. Lakers need to send Ayton home and let Jackson Hayes finish this season. This isn't a championship team. I'd rather go down with the players that leave it all on the floor, man. I agree. Deandre Ayton's going to have to take some stock. Like that's how players, fans feel. I agree. Deandre Ayton could be so valuable to this Lakers team if he would do what you always say and star in his role, but he doesn't seem willing to do it. Donnie Howard in Tennessee, longtime Maxim Marcellus super fan. It's time to ask Rich where he stands on one of the most definitive debates of all time. Ants or roaches?

[Rich Paul]

Ants are roaches.

[Max Kellerman]

Marcellus Wiley on Maxim Marcellus on ESPN Radio back in the day used to tell me he'd rather have roaches than ants.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'd rather. I'd rather have ants and roaches. I dealt with enough roaches in my life physically. Literal roaches and people that I found out were roaches. So I don't want to know no more roaches.

[Max Kellerman]

For anyone who possibly would take up Marcellus side of the argument here and say they'd rather have roaches than ants, please email us because I don't understand the argument.

[Rich Paul]

Well, if you're asking me, I don't want neither one of them.

[Max Kellerman]

But if I had to have whatever answer, whatever.

[Rich Paul]

No, ants could be.

[Max Kellerman]

Just spray a little bit. Ants. Come on.

[Rich Paul]

No, ants could be very annoying and they, they, they really multiply.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but that's okay. I'd rather have 100 ants than one roach. I'd rather have a thousand ants than a roach.

[Rich Paul]

Especially the roaches I've seen in my. In my life.

[Max Kellerman]

And I grew up with every. Everywhere.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, of course. You grew up in New York City. Yeah, roaches.

[Max Kellerman]

Ridiculous.

[Rich Paul]

Don't matter. It doesn't matter. You got roaches and even.

[Max Kellerman]

And there's no good. Kind of like the big ones, what they call water bugs in New York are the most disgusting. But actually the little ones are. They get it in the cereal and everything.

[Rich Paul]

They're fearless and they're so.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, it's the worst.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

No, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

So I'm going with ants.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, of course.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Yeah. All right, Sellers. I had to, I had to called Marcellus and.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, we'll have to have Marcellus on one of these days and explain this position because he couldn't explain it to me back then.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, no, it's unexplainable.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, that's it. That's our show.

[Rich Paul]

Nice jacket backs.

[Max Kellerman]

Thank you.

[Rich Paul]

I'm proud of you.

[Max Kellerman]

Are you?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I had to get this one off before the end of winter.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I'm just not even that. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not like you. I'm not. So it's cold in here, like.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

It's not like you like it down the corner of Sunset and La Brea. Like. No, it's just. But I think it's a dope look.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, thank you.

[Rich Paul]

Beef and broccolis.

[Max Kellerman]

Beef and broccolis, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You're really stepping it up.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These were. These in New York, These in the winter especially, you'd rather have these than the constructs because constructs get dogged in five seconds. But these you can kind of.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah. The butters, we call them are like. Those are like for like six stage. Those are like stage.

[Max Kellerman]

We used to wear those in the summer with jean shorts.

[Rich Paul]

Of course we did. Yes. That was a great look. Yeah, it was White tee, jean shorts. Butters, can't beat it. That was like my 11 to 4 look.

[Max Kellerman]

Uptowns too, or what people call Air Force ones in New York. They're uptowns, white on white, low top, Air Force ones with that exact thing I just said.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, well, you had to wear.

[Max Kellerman]

Just be out the door.

[Rich Paul]

Well, those you had to wear new every time.

[Max Kellerman]

That's the problem with them and the Butters. Both. Or we used to just call them constructs, but. But like both of them. The problem. That was the point of them. It's a form of conspicuous consumption. What you're showing everyone is, look, these are fresh out the box. Soon as they look like they weren't fresh out the box, they were done. Waste of money.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is excessive. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

[Max Kellerman]

It looks so good.

[Rich Paul]

Excessive. Yeah. It's excessive though. Yeah, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, see you on Wednesday.

[Rich Paul]

See you on Wednesday.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich

[Rich Paul]

Paul, by the way. Max. Something you didn't notice. You see my side of the studio?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

First of all, it's our new studio. We didn't tell people it's our new studio. I've been waiting to get in here.

[Max Kellerman]

Right, right.

[Rich Paul]

But I asked them to put a little decor on mine and I made sure they didn't on yours.

[Max Kellerman]

You should see. You should see any job I ever have, like a studio, you have a little cubicle if you're working on a show or. Or an office. My desk, always. Nothing on it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but no, we have to fill this up. But what I'm saying is I brought Things. See, unlike you, I came with a picnic basket of. You know, just.

[Max Kellerman]

I'll bring some stuff and put it on the other side.

[Rich Paul]

No, I knew you wasn't gonna bring stuff.

[Max Kellerman]

You're right. It's gonna be a while before I do.

[Rich Paul]

Because if you can't figure out the Geek Squad, then you damn sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, Geek Squad showed up and it was my. Finally, I lost his number. But the right guy on the Geek Squad squad, who hooked me up originally showed up again. Everything's working fine, and you lost his number. Yeah, I have it now, though. I have it now.

[Rich Paul]

I mean.

[Max Kellerman]

All right.

[Rich Paul]

No, you wasn't a geek at school Wednesday.

[Max Kellerman]

I got to get this filled up.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you do. No, we have some stuff. We have some. They didn't. I really wanted.

[Max Kellerman]

Can you just bring me some stuff? I'll put it on my side.

[Rich Paul]

I told. Listen, I did.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, you did?

[Rich Paul]

Yes, but they.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, you did. You.

[Rich Paul]

I brought stuff for your side and

[Max Kellerman]

told them not to put it up. Well, they no see how you do me.

[Rich Paul]

No, no. At first I told them to put it up, but then they said that you. It'd be too much rich stuff. And I was like, no, we're all one team. And I said, you know what? It actually looks better for him to have nothing to have. All right.

[Max Kellerman]

Much love. Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces. TGL playoffs are here. First, Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run against Los Angeles Golf Club. Then Rory's Boston Common Golf and Tigers Jupiter Links face off in their playoff debuts. Who will advance? K Keep up its playoffs. Tune in Tuesday, March 17th, at 6:30pm and 9:00pm only on ESPN and the ESPN app Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra, that's the OG it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing, but Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar Tap the banner to learn more.