Knicks Control Game 2, and Wallo Stops By | Game Over

Summary

---

Game Over With Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Episode: Knicks Control Game 2, and Wallow Stops By
Date: May 22, 2026 | The Ringer Podcast Network

Episode Overview

In this vibrant and wide-ranging episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul break down the NBA playoffs—highlighting the Knicks' dominant Game 2 performance over the Cavs and dissecting the heated Thunder-Spurs series with compelling boxing analogies. Later, they welcome charismatic media star Wallo to discuss his new book, the roots of his success, and the keys to thriving after adversity. The hosts dive deep into playoff basketball, mental toughness, and the business of sports and content creation—all with authentic banter and sharp, often humorous, cultural insights.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stan Kroenke's Sports Supremacy & Diversification

• [00:39 – 02:27]
  • The episode starts with banter about Stan Kroenke's incredible run as an owner winning titles in four different sports.
  • “[Kroenke] has won a championship in four different sports... Nuggets and Avalanche. Rams. MLS. Arsenal.” — Rich Paul
  • Both hosts marvel at how comprehensive Kroenke's winning touch has become, half-joking it’s gone from “Midas touch to Kroenke touch.”

2. NBA Conference Playoff Breakdown

Knicks vs Cavs: Knicks Up 2-0

• [05:01 – 16:45]
  • Josh Hart's Impact: Max points to Hart's shooting sprees as game-changing.
    • “When Josh Hart is hitting shots, I know they are a very hard team to beat.” — Max Kellerman [05:34]
    • Rich: “If you go to bed at night saying Josh Hart beat us, hey, you tip your hat to that man.”
  • Team Chemistry & “Nova Knicks” Identity:
    • “That relationship he and Brunson have is a real thing. It helps.” — Max Kellerman [08:04]
    • “It's called continuity. You can hold people accountable without it becoming personal.” — Rich Paul [08:24]
  • Cavs' Collapse & Mental Hurdle:
    • Max draws parallels to LeBron’s infamous near-win over the Warriors — “You had 22 in the Garden in game one... the resilience it takes for a team...” [10:10]
    • Rich: “You had Spike sitting there, silence. Celebrity Row was skid row. You had every actor, every actress.”
  • Will Cleveland Recover?:
    • "Cavs aren't coming back from that collapse." — Max Kellerman
    • Rich predicts "Gentleman's sweep," Cavs win Game 3 but Knicks close in five.

Spurs vs Thunder: War of Attrition

• [18:15 – 25:50]
  • Comparisons to legendary boxing matches (Hagler-Hearns, Leonard-Hearns).
  • Max calls out refereeing inconsistencies, especially physicality vs Wemby, and argues for fairer officiating.
    • “[The refs] just need to call the game. They’re not doing it in the Thunder Spurs series, Rich.” — Max Kellerman [19:41]
    • Max criticizes Chet Holmgren: “Chet steps on Wemby’s foot, obviously, intentionally... That’s dangerous. You can tear a ligament like that.” [21:07]
  • Fox’s Injury and Series Implications:
    • “If Fox plays, Spurs win. If not, Thunder probably win the series.” — Rich Paul [25:35]
  • Real-time adjustments, missing point guard leadership, and how live-ball turnovers swing momentum.

---

3. Notable Quotes & Viral Moments

• Max on Harden and Trump Analogy:

  • “Bringing James Harden in to try to win a championship is like electing Donald Trump to try to fix your country.” [09:17]
  • Max retracts: “I shouldn't have said that. It was too severe... I don't think it's as bad as all that, but that's the idea.” [09:29]

• On Star Power Being Forged in Playoffs:

  • “We give stars out like my teacher did in kindergarten... But in the NBA, this is when stars are born.” — Rich Paul [15:15]

• On Team Building and Mistakes:

  • “Every time the Lakers have made a mistake, it's when they let human capital out the door. Pat Riley. Jerry West... LeBron is like that right now.” — Max Kellerman [29:00]

---

4. Mailbag, NBA What-Ifs & LeBron Speculation

• [32:33 – 41:48]

  • Intelligent discussion about NBA “what ifs”—LeBron staying in Cleveland, never leaving Miami, KD to Warriors, Kyrie leaving Cavs.
  • On LeBron & Kyrie: “You can't find a better combination than those two guys... When you have a 1-3 pick and roll at that level, it's just insane.” — Rich Paul [40:14]

• LeBron’s Future with Lakers:

  • Max predicts LeBron will re-sign with LA on a two-year deal, emphasizing both his value on and off court. “This dude’s not about to retire.” [29:24]

---

5. Million Dollars Worth of Game: Wallow on Resilience, Content, and Success

Wallow’s Journey & Book Launch

• [45:47 – 82:00] (Wallow's guest segment)
• On Saying Yes to Yourself:
  • “Everybody is saying yes to everybody else. When you say yes to everybody else, you're saying no to you... When are you going to start choosing you?” — Wallow [47:16]
  • Theme of his book: Yes to You, No to Them — importance of prioritizing personal well-being over external demands.
• Navigating Post-Success Relationships:
  • “A lot of people, they don’t want what you give them. They want what you got.” — Wallow [50:09]
  • Discussion on pressure athletes face from family/community for financial support, and why many struggle post-success.
  • “When you're starting from zero for all—that's a whole other thing.” — Rich Paul [54:27]
• Business & Content Advice:
  • Million Dollars Worth of Game grew by leveraging daily content on social—“When I'm putting the decks together, you’re also getting the social aspect. We’re coming down that timeline every day.” — Wallow [69:22]
  • “Content is king... There'll never be enough podcasts because there's always a new idea.” — Wallow [80:03]
  • On just starting: “Stop waiting for the perfect camera... Take your phone, start shooting your show, start shooting your podcast, start shooting your movie.” [80:56]
• Ghetto as Education:
  • “The ghetto gave me life knowledge... It was an extraordinary place—the ingenuity it takes just to make it happen.” — Wallow [76:33]
  • Both he and Rich Paul discuss pulling positive knowledge from tough environments.

Memorable Moments

• Haters as Motivators:
  • “Haters is your marketing team. Let them work.” — Wallow [75:44]
• On Motivation:
  • “I'm always operating like I'm broke... every time you see me, it's always another move.” — Wallow [71:32]
• Advice to Creators:
  • “If you out there right now, put that camera on me, I’m talking to you... Pull the trigger on your dreams and the next level is waiting for you.” — Wallow [80:56]

Fun & Banter

• Witty back-and-forth over who owns more sports jerseys, and Wallow’s allegiance to "whoever wins the championship."
• Jokes about fake jewelry, old coaches, and “ghetto” roots as life education.

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Stan Kroenke as Multisport Champ – [00:39 – 02:27]
• Knicks Game 2 Breakdown – [05:01 – 16:45]
• Thunder-Spurs & Refs Controversy – [18:15 – 25:50]
• Max’s Harden/Trump Analogy – [09:17 – 09:29]
• NBA 'What Ifs' and Kyrie-LeBron legacy – [32:33 – 41:48]
• Wallow Interview & Book Discussion – [45:47 – 82:00]
• Wallow on Content, Hustle & Education – [69:08 – 81:57]

---

Highlighted Quotes

• Max Kellerman: “This is when stars are born. The regular season doesn’t matter—this is the best postseason in sports.” [15:31]
• Rich Paul: “I'm always operating like I'm broke... every time you see me, it's always another move.” [71:32]
• Wallow: “You gotta kill the hood opinion. Haters is your marketing team. Let them work.” [75:44]
• Wallow: “Stop waiting for the perfect camera... Just pull the trigger on your dreams—the next level is waiting for you.” [80:56]

---

Tone & Style

• Fast-paced, insightful, unfiltered, often humorous.
• Deep sports analysis coupled with cultural reflections and personal/professional motivation.
• High energy, especially in the latter half with Wallow’s infectious optimism and drive.

---

For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode delivers top-shelf NBA playoff insights (with an unapologetically New York flavor), invaluable wisdom on navigating success amid adversity, and a crash course on turning your hustle into a brand. The hosts keep it real—whether breaking down X's and O's, unpacking life lessons from the “ghetto,” or laughing at who owns the most sports jerseys. Wallow’s story and call to action—“Yes to you, no to them”—anchor the show in resilience, self-belief, and community uplift.

---

Transcript

[Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Paramount. Beth and Rip are back in a new series. Dutton Ranch. Kelly Reilly and Cole Hazard returned, and this time they're taking on Texas, as Beth and Rip build a future together. Peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch Starring Cole Hauser Kelly Reilly Annette Bening, Annette Harris. Now streaming on Paramount.

[Max Kellerman]

Max, you.

[Rich Paul]

Is Stan Kroenke just that good or is he lucky? Cause this is crazy, this guy.

[Max Kellerman]

If they're gonna change it from Midas touch to Cronky touch.

[Rich Paul]

The man has won a championship in four different sports.

[Max Kellerman]

First of all, he. He took the rams from St. Louis and got them back to LA. To LA. Did not. Now, Rams and Chargers at the time, no NFL team in la.

[Rich Paul]

Well, well, he also built the stadium.

[Max Kellerman]

Built.

[Rich Paul]

He also built probably the best stadium, right? And the Chargers pay rent,

[Max Kellerman]

which already had. Billions. Billions. Then he gets the Rams back to la, the whole thing with the stadium, and then every team he has wins a championship.

[Rich Paul]

That's unbelievable.

[Max Kellerman]

How many teams does he have now?

[Rich Paul]

I stopped counting after three. I think it's four now.

[Max Kellerman]

What side? They won a.

[Rich Paul]

He has an MLS team.

[Max Kellerman]

What do they win? I know there are different levels of side.

[Rich Paul]

Arsenal. Okay, Arsenal. He has an MLS team. I think it's the Rapids.

[Max Kellerman]

I'll take you rap.

[Rich Paul]

Then he have the Nuggets, right? And the Rams.

[Max Kellerman]

Nuggets and Rams.

[Rich Paul]

And the Avalanche.

[Max Kellerman]

Nuggets and Avalanche. And Avalanche. I know the Rapids. I don't.

[Rich Paul]

I think they're. I think they're the Colorado Rapids. I think. Hey, man, kudos to my man Stan Kroenke. I mean, congratulations, you know, what can you say?

[Max Kellerman]

You want to be in the Stan Kroenke business? How are you not already in his. In business with him. You're in business with everybody.

[Rich Paul]

Well, we've done business. We've done great business. Yeah.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, look, when owners own other teams. Well, now, it used to be. Now it's. Now it's just. It's. It's. They own multiple teams now, right? You know, Josh bought the Commanders, him and Blitz, you know, Haslam owns the Browns and the Bucks now. You're starting to really get some crossover. You ready to do the show?

[Max Kellerman]

Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

Game [e-mail]. max, what's the voicemail number?

[Max Kellerman]

424-240-8341.

[Rich Paul]

If you want to win some money. Play that 83. 41. 10. 10. Yeah, 10 straight. 10 box.

[Max Kellerman]

What's the email?

[Rich Paul]

Oh, the email is game over. I said already gameover. Spotify.com.

[Max Kellerman]

you didn't hear me. Well, now you got another plug. We got another plug for the email. Yeah, we are definitely getting to email.

[Rich Paul]

We're looking forward to. Well, we got to talk about this. Cavs Knicks. I mean, Cavs Nick Nicks up two zero, but also Max, we got to look ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

Thunder spurs, game streak.

[Rich Paul]

This is going to be a slug. This is. This is Hagler Hearns. The Thunder Spurs. Spurs is Hagler Hearns.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I'll tell you what, that's what we should do.

[Rich Paul]

What boxing analogy is the Knicks versus the Cavs.

[Max Kellerman]

Tyson Spinks,

[Rich Paul]

man, come on.

[Max Kellerman]

They might have to call this series off.

[Rich Paul]

So.

[Max Kellerman]

So there's a. Should be a mercy rule.

[Rich Paul]

But you agree that the spurs and Thunders is Hagler Hearns.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, this is. It's actually like Hagler Leonard. I. Sorry. Leonard Hearns. The first fight.

[Rich Paul]

Leonard Hearn.

[Max Kellerman]

Leonard Hearns was the highest level of boxing or like.

[Rich Paul]

Well, no, game one was Leonard Hearns.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Game two is Hagler Hearns or Hagler Leonard.

[Max Kellerman]

Game two was. What were they doing? They would get. It's a fight where someone was getting away with mugging the other guy. It's like a hot Bernard Hopkins fight. Bernard had hold you on this side where the referee couldn't see. Hit you on. Hit you low on the other side.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. Yeah, but we're going to look forward to that. Yeah, we're taking a road trip. We're going to San Antonio, by the way.

[Max Kellerman]

And when we say we're going to San Antonio, if Wemby stays healthy, what we. We might as well get like a condo in San Antonio. We should have a game over Alamo in San Antonio because we're going to be just like Cleveland and Golden State and bay area for 10 years. You have to go back and forth. We're going to be spending a lot of time in San Antonio, right? Yeah, a lot of time. Get a little house in San Antonio.

[Rich Paul]

That would have made sense because we spent a lot of money at that Four Seasons in San Francisco.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep. Man, a lot of money.

[Rich Paul]

Cost you $18 for a tomato soup.

[Max Kellerman]

What's that place? What's that? They had a place in Berkeley. A real beautiful, like, old hotel in Berkeley I used to stay at sometimes,

[Rich Paul]

too, to go to the finals.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, like, that's where first take would be. So, you know.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, No, I say the four seasons are St. Regis, but really the four seasons.

[Max Kellerman]

That was at the four seasons a bunch too. I used, we used to run into. We talked about that on the last show.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. Let's start the show.

[Rich Paul]

Let's start the show.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel. Conference finals are here. Thinking of how it's going to go down, Take your shot with FanDuel and get closer to the action. FanDuel is the best place to bet the teams, players and plays during the NBA postseason. Build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game 21 and over in select states 18 and over in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInElectric. Rich the one thing I've been saying about this Knicks team before the playoffs started, when Josh Hart is hitting shots, I know they are a very hard team to beat. That dude just had the game of his life and they were leaving him alone. And. And he's hitting three after three at four consecutive threes. Because you have to guard Cat. You got to guard Brunson. And you have two other guys on the floor with Bridges and with OG who can hit shots.

[Rich Paul]

Basically what the Cav said is, let's make Josh Hart beat us.

[Max Kellerman]

And he did.

[Rich Paul]

And he beat him.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but you live with that or

[Max Kellerman]

you die with it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I mean, listen, if, if you go to bed at night saying, Josh Hart beat us, hey, you tip your hat to that man. He deserves it.

[Max Kellerman]

But that's the thing. Like, Hart is a streaky shooter and I think of him as a bad shooter nowadays. But I looked up his career three. He's a gamer, but his career three point percentage is 35%. That's not terrible.

[Rich Paul]

No, it's not terrible. But that percentage says one thing. Look up his percentage in moments when it matters.

[Max Kellerman]

No question.

[Rich Paul]

I bet you it's 43%.

[Max Kellerman]

No question.

[Rich Paul]

He's just a gamer. He's been a. He's been a winner all of his life.

[Max Kellerman]

So what does that mean? So if the Spurs, I don't like the matchup with the Thunder, but if the spurs beat the Thunder, and I think they will, we're going to get to that in a second. The Knicks match up with the Spurs. And if you're saying that Josh Hart is a gamer in the moment. I mean, obviously. Right. But in the moment of truth, if he's going to hit those shots, of course the spurs would be favored. I'm just saying Knicks are going to go to the finals. And they got a puncher's chance.

[Rich Paul]

Josh.

[Max Kellerman]

They got more than a puncher's chance.

[Rich Paul]

Let me tell you something. Josh Hart just happened to get drafted to the Lakers at a time where they wasn't playing meaningful basketball.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

In the moments he played on the floor, he impacted the game the same way Marcus Smart does.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Then he goes to New Orleans, except

[Max Kellerman]

he's more of a two than a one.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Then he goes to New Orleans and they were actually playing some meaningful basketball. He impacted the game training. Then he gets to New York. Now we're in a spot where games matter and you can see his impact on the game, so.

[Max Kellerman]

And it's also the whole Nova Knicks thing. Like, I think that relationship that he and Brunson have is a real thing, and I think it helps.

[Rich Paul]

Absolutely. And Bridges.

[Max Kellerman]

No, yeah. Right. But I'm saying, like, that, like, ideally, DiVincenzo would still be on the team. You had to make the deal for Katt. Of course.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

But that whole thing, it's worked in terms of like.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

It's called continuity.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like in the NFL when they go get the quarterback as a college receiver.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Because when you have that type of continuity, you can hold people accountable without it becoming personal.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

That's what happens if it becomes personal. Now, you gotta deal with the attitude and things like that. And one thing about playing sports, if you don't have short memory and can move on to the next play. If I swing. If it's a swing. Swing and your mind is stuck two plays ago, you're not making that shit.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, I wanna say something. Something I said on the last show went viral. I said I was trying to think of an analogy for bringing James Harden in to try to win a championship is like, what? And one of the things I said as an example is it's like electing Donald Trump to try to fix your country.

[Rich Paul]

I didn't think that was the coldest bar you said, though.

[Max Kellerman]

I think I thought the one before that was, it's like Bobby Brownlee's new addition and you bring in Mike Tyson to sub in for him. It just doesn't work.

[Rich Paul]

I didn't agree with you picking on James Harden, but that bar was.

[Max Kellerman]

But, you know, it went viral and I realized after. Cause I guess it married politics and Sports. And so it hits. And I just have to say right now, I shouldn't have said that because it's not fair to James Harden. I did not mean to insult him publicly in a way that was gonna go viral, and it was too severe. I don't think it's as bad as all that, but I do think I was just using. See, Rich, when you make an analogy like that, you use hyperbole, you use exaggeration to make your point. So I don't think it's as bad as electing Trump to fix your country, obviously, but that's the idea. It's like that's the opposite of what you would do if you're trying to get a certain result.

[Rich Paul]

Understood, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, Max. By the way, before we even move on from. Okay, yes.

[Rich Paul]

No, I was, I was just thinking about something.

[Max Kellerman]

I thought you were about to take us away from the game. I just wanted one or two more things on Nick's cast.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, go ahead, go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

Donovan Mitchell was very passive today, tonight. And I don't know, is there physically something wrong with him?

[Rich Paul]

No, I don't think so.

[Max Kellerman]

He was unusually passive tonight.

[Rich Paul]

I still think they're hunted by that. That loss, man, I told you, in order to overcome that, you have 22 in the guard in game one. It reminds me of when LeBron scored 51, 8 and 8 against the warriors that game one. And it's like you're supposed to win that game. You have that game. The resilience it takes as a team. It's hard enough to win in the Garden. See that crowd, they had 16 different Knicks, you know, guys that played on. On the knicks on a 10 days on the floor. Like, everybody gets a seat. The crowd is already rowdy in the Garden. We know what the guard is the, the best place to play a basketball.

[Max Kellerman]

And you silenced them.

[Rich Paul]

And you had.

[Max Kellerman]

You're up 22 in the fourth quarter.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

You can't.

[Rich Paul]

You had. You had Spike sitting there, silence. And you know, it's hard to silence Spike. You had every actor, every actress.

[Max Kellerman]

Celebrity Row.

[Rich Paul]

Celebrity Row was skid row.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Paul]

And then all of a sudden, 17, 13, 6, 3 is tied.

[Max Kellerman]

You know, they can't come back from that.

[Rich Paul]

It's just tough.

[Max Kellerman]

They can't come. They can't come back for so many different reasons. They just played a seven game series, so they're tired. The Knicks were rested. You catch them on their heels, you get the win. Now you don't have that. Now they're now. And it's an overtime. Game, so they're even more fatigued. And then it's like, I don't care what anyone says, you got your heart took in game one. There's no way you didn't. You collapsed. That's a must win game. Even though it's game one, it's a must win game for Cleveland especially sitting on a 22 point lead in the fourth quarter. They're not coming back. Are they getting swept?

[Rich Paul]

When you talk about the pendulum swing.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

If the Cavs win game one, I can almost guarantee you Sam Merrow has four, five threes tonight. It's just a different feeling. It's a different shot. You know, the pressure's on the Knicks. You up.

[Max Kellerman]

Basketball's a rhythm game.

[Rich Paul]

It's such a rhythm thing. And so now going back home, down 02. Bro, I've been here, I've been here so many times.

[Max Kellerman]

There's a reason that it's a rhythm game because if you think of, think of the other two major sports in the country, football and baseball. Football is dynamic, but it's. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The play happens very quickly. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Right. Baseball is. It's really between the pitcher and the hitter. My old researcher who does his own thing now on SI, covering the wnba, Robin Lundberg used to say it's a one on one game dressed up as a team game. Baseball rhythm is not. Of course, rhythm exists in all sports, but the NBA is a fluid game. The action just keeps happening.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

It's such a. Rhythm is such a big thing.

[Rich Paul]

It's such a mind. It's such a mind, craft, mind. As you know. F U C K. Yeah. It's just your mentality when you play the game of basketball now you're at, you're almost at the last stage when things happen the way they happen in that fashion. If the Cavs was just lost game one.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

They would have been better off just

[Max Kellerman]

better losing game one. They were losing the whole time. They wind up losing by eight or 12 points. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Or even if they just lost, I don't care if they lost on the last second, you know, floater, but not up. Like your confidence is still different going in you. Like, damn, we were close. We can get this next one.

[Max Kellerman]

And you could see it rich because they come, they come. The Knicks come back on them. Down 22. They won by 11 in overtime.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. It just. Well, here's the thing.

[Max Kellerman]

Are they getting swept?

[Rich Paul]

I'm going to say no. I'm going to say no.

[Max Kellerman]

Gentleman sweep.

[Rich Paul]

It has to be Game three. It has to be game three.

[Max Kellerman]

So the Cavs win game three.

[Rich Paul]

I think the Cavs win game three.

[Max Kellerman]

Knicks come back on them in game. Cavs are not winning this series. But Knicks win game four, close it out. Game five at the Garden to start the series.

[Rich Paul]

That sounds about right, right?

[Max Kellerman]

To start the series, I thought six games.

[Rich Paul]

Unfortunately, that sounds about right.

[Max Kellerman]

To start the series, I thought six. But after game one went the way it did, I'm thinking it's either four or five.

[Rich Paul]

And look, the NBA is always better when the Knicks are good.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure, of course.

[Rich Paul]

That's clear.

[Max Kellerman]

It's a huge market.

[Rich Paul]

But. But I did want to see a seven game series in this series. Or at least six. At least six. Six was at least six. Right. But, you know, we'll see. Look, listen, this is the time. This is when star. This is. See, there's premature stars. We give stars out, like my teacher, Ms. Golden at Captain Arthur Roth used to do for kindergarten. Like, they give you a star for showing up to school, you get a different color star. But in the NBA, this is when stars are born.

[Max Kellerman]

No question. Because I hate to say it, the regular season, this is the issue. The regular season doesn't matter. And then it's the best postseason in sports.

[Rich Paul]

Shine.

[Max Kellerman]

Cause this is a real season.

[Rich Paul]

This is when stars are born. And I thought the Cavs had great moxie coming out game one. They looked poised. They had a rhythm. I mean, they were.

[Max Kellerman]

Donovan Mitchell was attacking.

[Rich Paul]

Mobley was hitting threes.

[Max Kellerman]

Mobley was.

[Rich Paul]

Yep, they was beating 50, 50 balls, by the way.

[Max Kellerman]

The Cavs were good on the glass tonight. Like, the effort on the glass. And that's the reason I said, like, they're cooked, Rich.

[Rich Paul]

But what was misleading in game one, at halftime, the Knicks was 2 for 19 from 3.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. But part of that was the Cavs defense. They were defending, like. And tonight, the whole issue in this series, I think there were two, like, tactical issues or strategic issues. One was, who do you have to guard? Brunson. You don't really have that perimeter defender.

[Rich Paul]

They did a better job. Brunson only had. He had two points.

[Max Kellerman]

But that's. That's because everyone was scoring.

[Rich Paul]

That's fine.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, everyone was in double digits. That was one. And the other thing is, even though they have those two bigs, they. The Cavs are not good on the glass. The Knicks are. You said that's an effort thing, right? That's a desire thing. The Cavs were good on the glass tonight and still lost.

[Rich Paul]

But Max, here's the Real thing, we're watching these playoffs when the last time you seen two bigs in the game down the stretch.

[Max Kellerman]

You're saying two in playoffs, period.

[Rich Paul]

This playoffs, right now. Look at all the team. Look at all. Look at the four teams that's left.

[Max Kellerman]

You mean Chet and Hartenstein won't be in together? Is that what you're saying?

[Rich Paul]

Not all. No. Not as much as Mobley and Allen. You have to make a choice.

[Max Kellerman]

Even Mitch and Kat won't be in.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you have to make a choice. Because what happens is now you're missing that. You're missing that. Mobley's their five when they're in their best spot. Right? You're missing that three. Because when you look at Strus, Strus brings great energy. He's a shooter. Merle bring great energy. They're shooters, right? You got James, you got Donovan, but where else are you getting that playmaking? Who's in that dunker spot that can stretch, that can pick and pop that?

[Max Kellerman]

They need a three and a four. Yeah, they need a three and a four. And they just traded a young pick and roll point guard for an old pick and roll point guard. It feels to me like the Cavs had a moment. That's why I was. I buried them on that hardened trade. They had a moment where they had the pieces, where if they wanted to make a move, they could, and they could maybe become a championship team. I think they made the wrong move. I think they're in bad shape right now. They're in bad shape. I don't just mean this season. I think they're bad.

[Rich Paul]

They are in the Eastern Conference finals. So they're in some type of shape.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, because they do have good players. All right, look, Thunder beat the Spurs. They even the series at 1 1. Right?

[Rich Paul]

It's health. The series is about health. Max.

[Max Kellerman]

I have something to say about this, and I was gonna do it as a five minute max, but let me just tell you what I think about this. I actually was taking notes on my.

[Rich Paul]

You seem a little riled up.

[Max Kellerman]

This is what's going on. And this is all on video, okay? Shay is flopping on every possession. He's flopping on every possession. It's ridiculous. Hartenstein and Chet are fouling Wemby all the time now. I mean, by the way, there's even. What was the. Who was the OKCR player who flopped when they waved off the three? Harper hit a three and someone totally flopped. It's obvious it's in front of the ref. And the ref waves off the three. So here are the options for what's going on, and then I want to talk about what they're doing to Wemby. Either the refs are very bad at their jobs and they keep missing everything. I find that hard to believe. Because the refs are good at their jobs. That's why they got to be NBA refs. And because it's happening in front of everybody, everyone can see the flopping. Everyone can see Shay trying to, you know, sell the calls. Everyone can see what Hartenstein and what Chet are doing to Wemby, right? So they're either bad at their jobs and can be easily fooled, which means that they're bad referees and they shouldn't be reffing. Or the league is sending them messages, hey, let people do this. Which is bad on the league, right? I'm just going through the possible options. Let certain things slide, right? Or the refs are making that decision on their own, which is also bad, right? Those are three options. The refs don't have to hear from the league. They're just like, okay, we're going to let him do. Wemby's too impossible to contain. We'll let him get away with this on Wemby. Hey, this is what Shai does. We'll give him the whistle. Any way you slice it, the preferable situation in these playoffs would be for the refs just to call the game properly. Just call the game. They're not doing it in. Not in the Thunder spurs series, Rich. They're not doing it. And let me tell you, the real problem is Hartenstein is getting away with vet moves on Wemby. I'm not mad at Hardenstein. If they're going to let him do it, he should be doing it. If he's able to hold Wemby and everyone sees this, he's doing it with two hands, right? Yeah, but holding Wemby.

[Rich Paul]

But you don't see that, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

But.

[Rich Paul]

But, yeah, physicality, you gotta let that go.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no, there's physicality. That's fine. But if you hold a dude like this, so he can't move in plain view of the ref and he. But I'm not mad at Hartenstein, because

[Rich Paul]

obviously, yeah, they don't call it.

[Max Kellerman]

But Chet is something else. Chet steps on Wemby's foot, obviously, intentionally.

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's not.

[Max Kellerman]

That is. That's so.

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's dangerous. You can't do that.

[Max Kellerman]

Dangerous?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you can't do that.

[Max Kellerman]

You could. You could affect the dudes.

[Rich Paul]

I didn't know if that Was by mistake.

[Max Kellerman]

Come on.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm asking.

[Max Kellerman]

No. If that's by mistake. So Chat is so uncoordinated. This dude is a highly coordinated athlete. He's so uncoordinated, he puts his foot right on Wemby's foot, feels his foot's on Wemby's footage, and then keeps it there with force.

[Rich Paul]

That's a dangerous play because Wemby can't move his foot. Yeah, but you can tear a ligament like that.

[Max Kellerman]

You can tear a ligament can alter your career.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, 100% right.

[Max Kellerman]

That's bad. Okay, so that, to me is a big issue. The other issue out of this, and you're the man to ask, is Fox coming back in this series?

[Rich Paul]

We hope so, but.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean. But yes, but if only I had access to someone who knows Aaron Fox.

[Rich Paul]

Look, he knows his body better than anybody. So in a situation like that, you have a high ankle sprain, the only thing you can do is what they've been doing. It's a game time decision. You let them get out there, you warm up. If you feel like you can go, you can go. Here's what I do know. It's the Western Conference finals, right? De' Aaron Fox is a warrior. If he can go, he can go. And I talked to him. He didn't sound too happy about not going. Right. You want to be out there with your teammates, and so hopefully game three, he can play.

[Max Kellerman]

But now he's not going. That means he's trying to go and the team won't let him.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, no. Listen. One thing about the spurs, they listen. So he knows his body better than anybody. If he can go, he would be able to go.

[Max Kellerman]

Let me say something about that.

[Rich Paul]

And he plays through. He's played through a pinky. He's played through ankle. He's got to remember that happened now three games ago. Yeah, three games.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Or maybe even four games.

[Max Kellerman]

So you're talking about like seven a week.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that happened four games ago. So more.

[Max Kellerman]

No more.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. So, you know, look, I hope. I hope so. I hope he plays.

[Announcer]

We'll see.

[Max Kellerman]

If Fox doesn't play, they could lose this series. But let me say this.

[Rich Paul]

But now if.

[Max Kellerman]

If Fox were healthy, they're. They're up 20 right now on the road. They're up to. The only reason the Thunder, who are playing well, the only reason the Thunder are tied one one is because we're even in either game, is because Castle, I like the fact that he stays aggressive no matter what. He's not a Point guard and he's turning the ball over.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And we were talking about this. It's live ball. You know, it's those lead to turn those lead to points immediately.

[Rich Paul]

Game one. He was so impactful. So you, you.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but I'm saying I'm not. No, I'm not saying he's not. He's not playing well. I'm saying. No, no, no, he's turning the ball over. He's not a point guard.

[Rich Paul]

Listen.

[Max Kellerman]

And now Harper might not play as a team.

[Rich Paul]

20 to 21 turnovers. You have to clean up. I think where, where they miss the Aaron most is in those spots where you, where you are. Are you stopping a run or you extending a lead. Right. Or the team is in the penalty and you're getting there. You're creating shots for others tempo. You know, Alpha made basket. You know, he's the fastest guy in the league with the ball. So off of May basketball.

[Max Kellerman]

He's also one of the most clutch players in the league.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

He, you know, he's going to also defend his position defensively.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. So you, you, you miss a lot. A lot.

[Max Kellerman]

But, but especially a point guard of that sport. General.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. That's who's been doing it all his life.

[Max Kellerman]

So, so, so this series now comes down to this. Because if they're going to let Hartenstein and Chet mug Wemby and they don't have Fox on the floor, Thunder can win this series.

[Rich Paul]

That's too much to overcome.

[Max Kellerman]

It's too much to overcome. But if, especially if they lose Harper, if they get Fox back and the refs start officiating this series properly, the spurs are going to roll the Thunder.

[Rich Paul]

But I think now Jalen Williams out the hamstring. You know, it's just all year like this, it's just tough to see them soft tissue issues, them soft tissue injuries. Every time you try to come back and play on them, it's just, it's such a high risk. We've seen it happen with Tatum.

[Max Kellerman]

Unfortunately, when they clear you, you need another two weeks to not always play. But there's no time.

[Rich Paul]

There's no time. Especially now. These guys want to play. I mean they, of course they mean so much to their teams. They got to be out there. So who you got winning game three?

[Max Kellerman]

You tell me if your guy plays. If Fox plays.

[Rich Paul]

I can't tell you who's playing.

[Max Kellerman]

If. Okay, here's what I'm going to say. If Fox plays, the spurs win. If Fox does well, they're in San Antonio. Yeah, I think the spurs win. Anyway, I think the spurs are going to take game three.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. There's, you know, like, there's a couple. There's a topic I wanted to get to Rich, but, you know, we still got to talk to Wallow, and I'm

[Rich Paul]

excited about Wallow coming on the show.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, of course.

[Rich Paul]

For all you guys that don't know Wallow's coming on the show today, we're excited about it. He's been promising us he's gonna come on the show. Actually, he did try to come on the show in Miami, but we flaked him, which he deserves.

[Max Kellerman]

Gillian, Wallow are. The show has been a phenomenon.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And. And Wallow's, you know, one of the more charismatic people in.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. And. And just really. Look, you got one thing about Wallow. I'mma change his name. Wallow's new name is no excuse.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Because what he's been through in life, to come home and position himself the way he has. Nobody has any excuse.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, he's also been like. He has natural charisma. Not everyone has that. You can go a long way.

[Rich Paul]

Fair. But that's just one of the 1,000 things that he does on the.

[Max Kellerman]

It takes a lot.

[Rich Paul]

That's what I'm saying. You have no excuse, right? Come on, man. What are we doing? You have no excuse. That's all I'm saying. But so you got spurs winning game three?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, if. I'm just saying, Fox gets back. I like the spurs in under seven games. Fox doesn't get back. I think the Thunder might win the series.

[Rich Paul]

Are we going to do a show from San Antonio? Yeah, okay. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Monday show from San Antonio.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, let's do it. Oh, I'm excited about that for sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Do it Sunday night after the game.

[Rich Paul]

Maybe I'll wear my cowboy boots.

[Max Kellerman]

You're gonna put cowboy boots on?

[Rich Paul]

I might.

[Max Kellerman]

I know you have cowboy boots, too, right? Of course. You've worn on the show.

[Rich Paul]

We're in Texas.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I don't have cowboy boots.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not asking you to have cowboy boots.

[Max Kellerman]

A nice regular outfit.

[Rich Paul]

We should go. You know what? We should go and buy you some cowboy boots. I would think the viewers would like to see you go and buy cowboy boots.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not a cowboy, Rich.

[Rich Paul]

You own a horse.

[Max Kellerman]

That's actually true. All right. Yeah, that's a good point. I don't have anything to say to that.

[Wallow]

Okay, good.

[Max Kellerman]

You know what? Let's do. By the way, I gotta say something about the voicemails. I told people we have Voicemail. The number is 4242-4083-4142-4240-8341. And you're leaving voicemails. And remember I said the reason I did the whole Harden Trump thing was cause I was saying bringing Harden in to win a championship is like what? Leave the voicemail. You left a bunch of voicemails. They're unintelligible the quality. You gotta speak clearly so we can play the voicemail mumbling people from like you're calling from a payphone in the 80s. It's like back to the Future or something.

[Rich Paul]

Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

I'm proud of you.

[Max Kellerman]

What?

[Rich Paul]

Because we won a whole show.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And you didn't try to get anything out of me that LeBron said.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, that's true.

[Rich Paul]

Thank you.

[Max Kellerman]

Hold on a second, hold on. LeBron did say something.

[Rich Paul]

LeBron said nothing.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait a minute.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, no, no, no. The show's over.

[Max Kellerman]

LeBron said. Wait, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Rich Paul]

You can go back.

[Max Kellerman]

Said he's gonna make a decision. He said it. He said it today. He's gonna make a decision. End of July or beginning of August, something like that.

[Rich Paul]

He's trolling you, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Clearly. If with who's connected to LeBron, who could give me some insight.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just proud of you though. I was waiting. I was.

[Max Kellerman]

You brought it up though.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, because the show's over. But I was waiting.

[Max Kellerman]

Would you like me to tell you what LeBron's decision will be? I happen to know. You don't know, but I know.

[Rich Paul]

Tell me.

[Max Kellerman]

LeBron's retirement tour is going to be a financial bonanza. He is still playing at a, at an all NBA level. At least one, two, whether you want to put him one, two or three team, right? He's still all NBA top 15. This dude's not about to retire. He's not retiring now. And he's not going to leave the Lakers. Because the Lakers are not only in the position to give him the most money, but they'd be idiotic not to give him the most money. Not even because of the financial bonanza that his retirement tour. I'm not saying this would be his last year. Let's say you give him a two year deal, right? And then the year after. But because he still makes your team better. And why wouldn't The Lakers want LeBron's championship? Know how in that organization they have anytime the Lakers have made a mistake, it's when they let human capital out the door. When they let Pat Riley out the Door. Big mistake. Look what happened in Miami. That's just the Lakers southeast when they let Jerry west out the door. Big mistake. The Warriors. That's just the Lakers north. That's. That's the. That's the, you know, that's just the freeway heading north. That's all that is. And that's Lakers, you know, culture. That's lakers human resources. LeBron is like that right now. Who else is tied to a championship from this in with the. In terms of the human capital on the Lakers? Who else is tied to championships? They'd be crazy. Let them go. He's going to resign with Lakers. Two year deal. Not even a one year, two year deal. That's. That's what's going to happen.

[Rich Paul]

You know more than I do, Max,

[Max Kellerman]

and more than LeBron, apparently, who hasn't made the decision yet. Yeah, Uncle Max will take care of you. Don't worry about it. You want to do anything?

[Rich Paul]

All right, let's do some emails. Yeah,

[Wallow]

We.

[Max Kellerman]

We have voicemails that. You can't understand what they're saying.

[Rich Paul]

We can't understand what they're saying. They're in Spanish.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't know what they're in.

[Rich Paul]

They're trying to ruin the show.

[Max Kellerman]

They're in Latin or ancient Hebrew or something. I could not.

[Rich Paul]

Max, we have an email from India.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, let's hear it. We have emails from all over the world. China, Germany.

[Rich Paul]

Now, wait a minute. I'm not saying this name.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, it's spelled H A R S H I T. And I'm going to go ahead and say it's Harshit.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

From India.

[Rich Paul]

Hi, Harsheet from India.

[Max Kellerman]

You recently named three future faces of boxing. What about a heavyweight clash between David Benavidez versus Moses Atama in two to three years? Ooh, that's a.

[Rich Paul]

How about two to three days?

[Max Kellerman]

David Benavidez is the. Has the fat one. David Benavidez is a combination puncher, one of the fastest in the history of boxing, and he's a cruiserweight. That's in the old days, that's what a heavyweight would be. Now it's called a cruiserweight because they got super heavyweights now that they call heavyweights. But. And Moses Atama is the best heavyweight prospect since. I mean, he's most reminiscent of Tyson, but he's a southpaw and he can box. He's kind of like Purnell Whitaker and Mike Tyson had a baby. Not that he could box as well as Pernell or he's as ferocious as Mike, but it's kind of Like a hybrid.

[Rich Paul]

Max is more to the email.

[Max Kellerman]

Good one for Rich. You've been very successful in marketing your clients to the people. What about foraying? Okay, in boxing, where athlete popularity and marketing seem to be more important than ever?

[Wallow]

Nope.

[Max Kellerman]

What about it? Hold on. What if I could bring you into Zufa Boxing?

[Rich Paul]

As an investor?

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. Well, I don't know. Maybe investors, but some kind of.

[Rich Paul]

Obviously they'll need equity and consultant or more money than anybody. But I mean, we got to get

[Max Kellerman]

you involved in Zufa.

[Rich Paul]

That's what I've been asking.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You know, I'm calling Nick myself. I'm tired of going through you to talk to Nick. I'm gonna call Nick my damn self. So rap.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, we want to do any more?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, because I need to get to the shrimp fried rice, man. Come on, let's do one more.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich and Max, which of these four have the biggest what if effect on how LeBron's career plays out and why? Never leaves Cleveland in 2010, never leaves Miami in 2014. Kevin Durant never joins the Warriors. Kyrie never leaves LeBron and the Cavs. Well, that's a very interesting question.

[Rich Paul]

That's a good question. Here's what I'm saying. I can't say never leaves Cleveland in 2010 because he actually needed to leave. He had to.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, but it's a big what if effect because if he stays in Cleveland, they never win a championship, they'll never get a good draft pick because he's always going to drag them too close. And they weren't willing to pull the trigger on a deal that he needed a crime partner. Yeah, but eventually they would have. They would have.

[Rich Paul]

No, but what I'm saying is it was all messed up to start. I mean, it wasn't evaluated properly. Think about it this way. He comes in the league in 2003, so you get LeBron.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

2004. Who was in that draft?

[Max Kellerman]

I don't remember the 04 draft.

[Rich Paul]

Dwight Howard.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You have to give yourself a chance to get Dwight Howard. Because if you got LeBron and you got Dwight Howard, that's off to a great start.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, if you have LeBron and Dwight Howard, you're winning the chip the next year because you'll go get shooters and you're done.

[Rich Paul]

Then the next draft is 2005. You know who's in that draft?

[Max Kellerman]

Remind me.

[Rich Paul]

Chris Paul. Right. Darren Williams.

[Max Kellerman]

People forget. People forget how good Darren Williams was.

[Rich Paul]

Maybe at some point you get. So now in the event you strike gold, like the spurs have been doing. You have a point guard. I take either one. I take Darren or I take Duron. I'll take Duron or I'll take CP.

[Max Kellerman]

You already have LeBron, by the way. He, along with. To like everyone you ever knew was called Terrell. Was called. Right. And now he's Terrell. Maybe it ruined that name for me. And the way Daron spelled. His name was Darren, but you had to say Daron. Or was it vice versa? Was it Daron? Anyway, they.

[Rich Paul]

Both. But. But you take either one.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm mad at both their moms. Just name them the regular thing. Pronounce it the regular way.

[Rich Paul]

You take either one of those point guards. Yeah. So now you have a point. You would have to get very lucky to get Dwight Howard. But there was other people.

[Max Kellerman]

A lot of luck.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

You're not any of those people, because LeBron's going to make you too good.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, you don't have to. You don't have to do what Sam has done. The great Sam Presti. Do what he has done. If you really play it out. And then, guess what? We got one more draft to just not be too good, so. By the way, your guy was too good.

[Max Kellerman]

He could not. You can't keep a LeBron team. I don't care what you do.

[Rich Paul]

I understand what you're saying.

[Max Kellerman]

By year two or three, he's going to drag them to the playoffs.

[Rich Paul]

You still got to give yourself a shot.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

What you can't do is what was done. So anyway.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, go for it. So that. Wait, wait, wait. Okay. To me, KD joining the warriors is not fair because the reason he joined the warriors is because of LeBron. Really?

[Rich Paul]

I don't. Yeah, because he. I don't really focus on that one.

[Max Kellerman]

No one could get it done against the warriors except LeBron.

[Rich Paul]

But that was a. That was. That was a reaction to what had happened with Katie.

[Max Kellerman]

Don't rush past this.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not rushing.

[Max Kellerman]

The greatest compliment I've ever seen LeBron paid in terms of the actions of others.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. KD joining the warriors because think about that.

[Max Kellerman]

As great as the warriors were, they could not beat LeBron, really, in 15 either. The only reason they won is because Kyrie and Kevin Love got hurt. They had to look at LeBron and go, we can't beat this dude.

[Rich Paul]

People got upset for KD joining the Warriors.

[Max Kellerman]

I did, I did, I did, I did. Because it's. It's the warriors looking at kd. We can't beat this dude. Kd, who had just lost to the warriors was like, well, the way we can beat that guy is if you take me, one of the best players ever in his prime, and parachute him down into a 73 win team. The reason that I do hold that against KD is because that is an uncompetitive thing to do. You are stacking the deck till you literally can't lose.

[Rich Paul]

I think the biggest one here is Kyrie leaving or just as big.

[Max Kellerman]

You think if LeBron could do that again, he would have done things differently with Kyrie?

[Rich Paul]

I don't know what I think.

[Max Kellerman]

I think, why did Kyrie leave?

[Rich Paul]

I mean, he talked about it himself. I think it was just a thing of being in a different mind space, you know, kind of viewing things a little bit different.

[Max Kellerman]

Was obviously a Kobe Shaq thing in the sense that Kobe, as great as he was, you know, he wanted to win without Shaq. Because what people were saying is, Shaq is 1A, you're 1B. And in LeBron and Kyrie's case, it wasn't even 1A and 1B, it was 1 and 2. But Max, Kyrie had to want to get away from that to prove stuff. What he proved was LeBron was one. He was. That's what he wound up. But he wanted to prove.

[Rich Paul]

The only thing that makes me upset about that is this happens in life and it happens in sports, right? There's this idea that I have to prove something to people that I'm not even validating anyway. You're trying to prove something to critics who say, you should be doing this. And these people have never been in your shoes. They can't make a basket, they can't make a layup. They can't make anything. And they're doing it with critique, but they're also doing it with the understanding that it's spite that's spiced up in there, too. Because the reality of it is you. You can't find a better combination than those two guys.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, Kyrie, okay, first of all, there are some players who really do care what people think, right? Like kd. There's something actually. There's something actually nice about the fact that KD responds to people in his comments, right? And. And. And even has burner accounts. Because actually, kd, his problem is the thing that. That I kind of like, which is he treats. He seems to treat everyone the same way. Like he. He cares as much about what this fan thinks about as what anyone thinks, which is good and bad. Kyrie also seems to care what people think. He seems to Me to. I'm not saying this out of. I'm not hating on Kyrie. Kyrie's one of my all time favorite players to watch. I've said many times he might be the most skilled player of all time, but. But he does care what people think. He wants to be perceived a certain way. He wants to be seen as smart. It's important to him. You see it throughout his career.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know, you might have could have said that when he was younger. I don't think so.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, maybe it's changed.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I don't think so now, but all I know is I had an up close and personal point of view. And when I say it's perfect like LeBron and D. Wade was incredible. Right? Those two guys, a two and a three. But when you have a one, three, pick and row and is Kyrie in

[Max Kellerman]

the world at that level, it's just insane.

[Rich Paul]

But also, T. Lou was so great in terms of using Kyrie as a screener. Now what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?

[Max Kellerman]

Kyrie is also a killer in the clutch. And the other thing about Kyrie that's underrated is how great a shooter he is. Kyrie is a great shooter. A great shooter.

[Rich Paul]

Catch and shoot off the dribble any

[Max Kellerman]

way you want it.

[Rich Paul]

Finisher.

[Max Kellerman]

Best layup package of all time.

[Rich Paul]

Mid game. Everything I've seen him make every type

[Max Kellerman]

of shot, everything to get the ball in the hoop, he can do.

[Rich Paul]

I always thought that that combination. When you talk about duos.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Paul]

Those two guys, I mean, you can't

[Max Kellerman]

say it doesn't have something to do. That Shaq, Kobe thing, you. That has some. I. Okay, maybe it seems to me that that's what was going on.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, I never fed into that. I never had a conversation with him about it. All I can say is he was a much younger player at that time.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you think if LeBron could do it again, he would have let Kyrie know in certain ways how important it that.

[Rich Paul]

Absolutely right. Absolutely.

[Max Kellerman]

That's what.

[Wallow]

That's all I'm saying.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah. And.

[Max Kellerman]

But by the way, I'm not saying LeBron is the mature one. Kyrie was the immature one. But forget who cares who's what. You just want to make it work. So LeBron as the mature one, probably should have let this young guy know who he could see as having an ego thing and everything. I need you with me.

[Rich Paul]

And maybe he tried. I don't know. I don't know. But I imagine. I imagine it's Just. It's a tough spot to be in. Right. The number one pick, then the. The former number one pick for both of them.

[Max Kellerman]

If you're Kyrie Irving, you're like, you're one of the most incredible players ever, and you have to be second fiddle to this guy because you're playing with an unbelievably, you know.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but see, again, I think that's. That's very misleading because how can I be second fiddle when I'm me? It's only one Kyrie Irving. Yeah, there is.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm just saying. Okay, this is just my interpretation. I'm not saying it's what it is, but I'm almost always right about this. All right, now I think that's enough. You want to get another one?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, no, I want to get this shrimp fried rice.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, shrimp fried rice sounds all right.

[Rich Paul]

Listen. Yeah, no, actually, we can't eat your shrimp fried rice yet. Wallow's coming on the show.

[Max Kellerman]

I thought we were getting shrimp fried rice.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no. We got Wallow.

[Max Kellerman]

What if we ate the shrimp fried rice and then we cut to Wallow?

[Rich Paul]

No, because if you ever see Wallow likes.

[Max Kellerman]

Can't keep him waiting. No, he's a big star. You can't keep him waiting.

[Rich Paul]

Just said. They just said he's here.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

So let's. Let's interview Wallow. Then we can eat the shrimp fried rice.

[Max Kellerman]

Fine.

[Rich Paul]

But here's what we can't do.

[Max Kellerman]

What's that?

[Rich Paul]

We can't tell Wallow is shrimp fried rice. The man never seen a meal he didn't like. You don't see he eat the plate.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

We cannot tell him his food.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. No shrimp fried rice.

[Rich Paul]

Let him leave the studio.

[Max Kellerman]

I know we don't. We have more than just shrimp fried rice. Whatever.

[Rich Paul]

No, we have Szech swan string beans. We have sesame chicken. Oh, but we can't tell this guy because we won't have anything.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, all right, let's get him in. Get him.

[Rich Paul]

Get him in.

[Max Kellerman]

Get the Chinese.

[Rich Paul]

Get him out. Yeah, let's. He's bringing his book.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Paul]

Let's support him.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Paul]

Let's make him feel very special.

[Max Kellerman]

He's very. He is very special.

[Rich Paul]

Then let's tell him we're having a meeting, so therefore he has to leave.

[Max Kellerman]

Meeting.

[Rich Paul]

And then we eat the shrimp fried rice.

[Wallow]

Done.

[Rich Paul]

Done. Okay, so let's welcome Wallow.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel. NBA playoffs are here. Everything's on the line. Every possession matters. Every bucket swings. The game tonight is your shot. To boost your bet. That's right, all customers get a profit boost tonight. So when the moment hits, your win hits bigger and FanDuel is giving you better payouts on same game parlays all NBA playoffs long. Lock in your bets, boost your odds and make the playoffs. Payoff with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Head to FanDuel.com gameover to get started. FanDuel play your game 21 and over in select states or 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER call 1-888-OR visit ccpg.org chatinconnecticut did

[Ad Voice]

you know about 1 in 3 people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling? Does this sound like you Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfya Guselcomab, taken by injection is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy. And for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfire. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfire, including important safety information.

[Max Kellerman]

Max yes sir.

[Rich Paul]

Game [e-mail] game over with Max Kellerman

[Max Kellerman]

and Rich Paul and look who's here today.

[Wallow]

I'm here man.

[Rich Paul]

Wallow the game over.

[Wallow]

I put 40 in the game.

[Rich Paul]

You never scored 40 in the in the church.

[Wallow]

When I got my MVP in 1992 when I got my trophy. When I was playing for St. Michael School with boys in Tunny, Pennsylvania, I scored 21 three pointers in a game. I got the MVP trophy. You've seen it on social media. My mom bung it out.

[Rich Paul]

I just want you to know.

[Wallow]

What?

[Rich Paul]

This is not the show for that, okay?

[Wallow]

What you mean? I'm talking about my game.

[Rich Paul]

We don't lie on this show.

[Wallow]

1992, was it 92 or 93? I scored 21. I had 21 three pointers in the game.

[Max Kellerman]

So you had. So that's 63 by itself.

[Wallow]

I was on fire.

[Max Kellerman]

So. So what was the what? You had the game with. You didn't. You scored nothing but threes.

[Wallow]

I don't know what else happened But I just remember they.

[Rich Paul]

I have a feeling you was playing on a trash can with and you balling up the notebook paper and imagining the game.

[Wallow]

I seen my trophy on Instagram. Everybody was hate.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way. It's hard to score 63 in that situation. Situation.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. What are you talking anyway, Wallow, I. I do want to say you said you was coming on the show and I did, and you're here.

[Wallow]

I was trying to come tonight in Miami.

[Rich Paul]

I.

[Wallow]

My word is my rep. You.

[Max Kellerman]

You.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you did. We appreciate that. But you had something to talk about. What are we talking about today?

[Wallow]

I got my new book coming out June 16th. You can pre order it right now for everybody out there. Yes to you, no to them. The disciplines are saying no. And the freedom that follows. It's about choosing you.

[Rich Paul]

Why yes to you.

[Max Kellerman]

Keep the grass cut and the snakes.

[Wallow]

Yes. No, because everybody is saying yes to everybody else. When you say yes to everybody else, you're saying no to you. Like we living in the world where everybody is just taken. But when are you going to start choosing you? Because we living in the world also where everybody choosing themselves. When you going to start saying yes to me and no to them?

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, I misinterpreted. I thought it was. Nah, you want to see who's really real? Start telling people no.

[Wallow]

That's a part of it too. Because there's a freedom that comes with no, because when you. You start to feel good. Because a lot of us is. We're afraid to know. We. We don't want to fall out with people. We don't want people to call us Hollywood and. And this and that. And it's like, no, she was just.

[Max Kellerman]

Where'd the inspiration for that come from?

[Wallow]

It came from my life, man. Like, I fell out with a lot of people. Not. Not that I wanted to fell out with him, but I didn't know that. I didn't know that. It was never enough. It would never be enough. I thought when I'm looking out for people, it was. But I ain't really come up until I really start saying no.

[Rich Paul]

So this is. This is post success because pre success when you was. When you was incarcerated. Because for. For all those that don't know. Yeah, Wallow was incarcerated. He came out, came home, he changed his life. So you come home, you come home with a game plan, right? You had nothing. I. I saw what you had. You had a little bit of money. You stand with Granny.

[Wallow]

Nanny's house.

[Rich Paul]

Stand with nanny, right? I'm going to see Nanny when I Go back to Philly.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And. And then you have this idea. You go and grab your cousin Gilly. And it was good. You grabbed him because the music thing wasn't working for him.

[Wallow]

No, no, Gil, Gil, we grabbed each other. See this. The whole thing, the music didn't work. Cause I stopped writing for him when I was in jail.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Wallow]

I stopped writing for him.

[Max Kellerman]

I feel like Gilly needs to be here.

[Rich Paul]

No, he don't.

[Wallow]

He's here by himself. Cause he's not going to tell the truth that I was writing for him. And. And when my. And when he. And then I realized the type of money you making off the raps, I'm like, hold up. You sent me 250 for commissary? That don't make sense. And you getting rap money, they pay you more than this.

[Rich Paul]

So you getting the money, the people that you're saying has caused you to be in this mindset. What is that behavior like? Because when you say you thought that. Because I think you are a forgiving person.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

But you're saying enough isn't enough. What does that mean?

[Wallow]

In our community, a lot of times when you come up, everybody is in close proximity to you. And knowing, they feel as though they're entitled to a portion of your hard work, the money that come with your hard work. And it's never enough, though, because a lot of people, they don't want what you give them. They want what you got. And sometimes they can't have it. And then it becomes. Because you like, damn, I gave you this. I gave you this.

[Max Kellerman]

That would be like, so Rich's book, by the way. Rich. See how Wallow brings a book? He puts it on the thing. Where's your book? Where's your book?

[Wallow]

You gotta.

[Max Kellerman]

You gotta show. Promote your book.

[Rich Paul]

We're gonna bring it out. Don't worry. We'll bring the book.

[Max Kellerman]

Because his book, he. He has, like, lessons like that.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Have rules, but that rule, that's. Hold on. What was.

[Rich Paul]

What. What was it?

[Max Kellerman]

It was. They don't want what you give them. They want what you got.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. They don't want what you give. They want what you got. So, in essence, if you ask me for 500 and I give it to. You really don't want the 500. You want every. The things that I actually pursue access to my life.

[Wallow]

You want to be with me every day. You want to just. You just want everything I got. And the reality of it is one of the. One of the great things about this Jew. I teach it in when I go to the NFL teams, the college teams, and I teach you about the side effects of success and I got a program, 10 point program where I teach about these are the issues you're going to come through number one, soon as you get there. Everybody see this, this, this headline. You get 25 million. They think you got that today. They believe you got that today. So people thinking, he could buy me,

[Rich Paul]

that's really like 7 million.

[Wallow]

Yeah, he could buy me. They ain't thinking about taxes, they ain't think about the fees. They not think about the different states you got to pay.

[Max Kellerman]

And people say it's over a certain amount of time. It's not like, yeah, people like, he

[Wallow]

could buy me a Lamborghini, give me a Rolex, give me 150. That's how people seeing it basically hold up.

[Rich Paul]

150.

[Wallow]

150,000. Really people, man, you listen, when I go into these, the stuff that these Bulls pull me to the side, these NFL players and these.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, oh, you talking about. I thought you were saying they asked you for 150.

[Wallow]

Oh, no, no, no, no. Okay, but, but I gave out way more than that. Way more than that.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Wallow]

Just in the whole collectively. But what I'm saying is you got these guys, they go there and now they under pressure. First of all, I got to make the team. But in the process of me making the team, I falling. They falling out with their moms, they falling out with their cousins, they falling out, their brother sisters, they fall in love with all these people because everybody like, I need money. Yeah, you got money. I was there. They falling out with the aunts, they used to babysit them when they was a kid. Because everybody believed that my life was to change because you did that.

[Rich Paul]

Now let me ask you this question because obviously I have a front row seat to everything you're talking about, right? And do you think that there's a difference in, in communities amongst the white and black communities? Do you think that there's a difference in terms of this approach to things, this mindset of things?

[Wallow]

I've been in these colleges, I've been to these universities, and when I'm talking, I'm talking about the NFL teams, top flight colleges. And when I talk, when I talk to these guys, I'm talking to everybody, every color, every day. A lot of times in the different races, you know, their mom and dad is already situated. We're coming from a poverty background. A lot of times I'm just being in America, the black, we coming from a position where as Though when somebody make it in our family, this is our only chance we might make it out.

[Max Kellerman]

That's why more black athletes go broke from that, I think, than taxes, child support, whatever. You're spending money because this is something Marcellus Wiley put me up on when we did our radio show together in la. Because really the way I used to think about it was it's just conspicuous consumption. You never had anything. Now you have all this money, you don't know what to do with it. You spend it foolishly, right? But really it's. You're trying to bring a generation out of poverty, right? You're trying to bring too and you can't do it all by yourself, but you're trying to really, the money goes to try to bring too many people along with you.

[Wallow]

But the reality of that is this financial literacy ain't there. And this is, we gotta understand in the hood, we're all even. I did it, Rich did it, Brian, everybody did it. You got to go through a phase to where you mess up a lot of money first because you got to get this celebration of the first taste of success. You run through a bunch of money, you buy the cars, you mess with the girl, you get the watches, you get this, you go here, you go there, you mess up a lot of money, you got to get it out your system. Sure, you buy. You know,

[Max Kellerman]

by the way, I didn't grow up like that and I still. And I went through that.

[Wallow]

That's what I'm saying.

[Rich Paul]

Here's the thing. The rookie deal really goes to getting it out your system. The problem is everybody is not entitled to a second deal. So when you think about it, guys get drafted, you get drafted high. But it's really not a lot when you're starting from zero for everybody, not even just for yourself. When you break it down, it's not a ton when you're starting from zero for all. Right, if I'm starting from zero for me, that's one thing. But when you're starting from zero for all, that's a whole other thing.

[Max Kellerman]

Your mom doesn't isn't like 23 years into a 30 year mortgage. You could just pay off the couple years of her mortgage and she's own her own house and, and you know, it's not just like one brother needs

[Wallow]

to calorie every million.

[Rich Paul]

Every million ends up being about 50,000 for you. Think about it, if I have a million, 50% of that goes to taxes. So it's half, 500,000. And then if I have seven to nine dependents plus me. That's really 50,000 each person, right?

[Max Kellerman]

You could have seven to nine dependents, no kids, seven to nine dependents, yes.

[Rich Paul]

But for me, it's 50,000 to me.

[Wallow]

And the sad thing about it, 10. Like he said, think about 10 million. You get it? 10 million. First of all, they're gonna hit you. Like you said, 5 million going to them. If you in it. You, you, you. Some of these guys gonna spend half a million on jury, right? I'm just saying, jury, the car. Do you want to spend a half? And then do you gotta think about.

[Max Kellerman]

Jewelry's better than the car. At least, at least you're pouring some money.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, you're not parking money in jewelry.

[Wallow]

No.

[Rich Paul]

You're parking money in timepieces. That, yeah, that appreciate over time. If you're buying the right ones, most. If you're going for the flash, you're

[Max Kellerman]

not the resale's right.

[Rich Paul]

You're going in reverse. If you're going for the substance, it's different. But most athletes want it right now. So they're not buying watches from a watch company, they're buying watches from a jeweler. If I'm buying watches from a jeweler, then there's a pretty premium that I'm paying for the right now. Right. And in most cases, if I'm buying an iced out watch from a jeweler, then that means I'm probably buying.

[Max Kellerman]

What percentage could you get back if you need to go sell it? Let's say you pay. Pay a hundred. What are you hitting it back?

[Rich Paul]

Let me tell you something. When in Cleveland there was a jeweler, right? And his name was DeWitt, and DeWitt was wonderful guy. This is his business, right? Right. And so you go to DeWitt and DeWitt was in the arcade and he, you know, he was a jewelry. We had him down on south street in Philly. My guy was Ronnie at the Golden Nugget. Right. He wasn't shopping like that though, back then.

[Wallow]

But anyway, I was in the joint,

[Rich Paul]

he was in the joint. But anyway, so. So when we, when you go to these guys, obviously they gonna sell you the product, they're gonna sell you the jewelry. Depending on what you bought. But when you take it back, if you have to take it back, which most will have to take it back, then that same piece they might have sold to you for 10 grand, they may say, I give you 3500 for it.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? That's what I'm saying.

[Rich Paul]

So maybe depending on, depending on how much in dire straits.

[Max Kellerman]

So you figure you get 30. So the money, you get 30% back. That's what I'm saying. Like maybe 30% back.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

As opposed to. Even if you spent the money, but you were educated about it, the watch that you spent that same 10 on, maybe now it's 15 instead of 3500.

[Rich Paul]

Now, if you. Now, if you. If you had access to an actual appreciating timepiece, which in most cases, you don't, because you don't want to be. You don't want to go into a retail door, right, and fill out a form in the computer and wait a year to get a timepiece.

[Max Kellerman]

And you're going to the gray market

[Rich Paul]

and build a profile to get allocated certain pieces. Guys aren't doing that because I want what I want right now. So it's a tough thing, but just moving on. So talk to us about million dollars worth of game, because Max and I are fans, and obviously I've been on the show. Yeah, well, I only been on it one time when I beat you out the money.

[Wallow]

You've been on there one you pose. Been on a couple times, but I'm

[Rich Paul]

gonna come back twice.

[Wallow]

You've been on there? The last. Last one with Bill Haney, but that's another.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, you went on with Bill.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, no.

[Wallow]

He was on. That's my guy.

[Rich Paul]

Max, you know what they did to me?

[Wallow]

I didn't do nothing.

[Rich Paul]

If it wasn't. If it wasn't you, I would have sued you.

[Wallow]

No, you wasn't. Now you ain't going to sue me.

[Rich Paul]

Did I tell you what they did?

[Wallow]

No, he put him on the street.

[Rich Paul]

He put me. He called me Wallow, called me. I'm answering.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, when you were on FaceTime.

[Rich Paul]

No, he called me first.

[Wallow]

He gave up some questions.

[Rich Paul]

He called me first. Then he put me on FaceTime. It's wallow. I see Bill Haney, you know Bill, my man. Oh, gee, whatever. So we talking. It's a group.

[Wallow]

We're in the hood.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

We talk 30 people out there.

[Rich Paul]

But then they clip it. He don't tell me they clip it. Now, technically, that's a suitable offense.

[Wallow]

Okay.

[Rich Paul]

But he know who I. He know I'm not going. You know what I'm saying? But anyway.

[Wallow]

But yeah, I'll just settle it out. Give you like a hundred, 100,000. Get away from. But no. So this is what happened when I was in prison. Gil used to do these clips. This one, Instagram was short million dollars worth of game. I'm gonna give y' All a million dollars worth of game for free. If you think about it, he did.

[Max Kellerman]

First of all, it's a great name.

[Wallow]

That's great. And he had album called that. And this the first. Like this the first time you ever hear Free Game and all, he was him, right? He on there always talking about that. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And so when I. When one day I wake up, I'm home now for a couple years, not even like two, three years, and I see an article, Spotify allocate 400 million to podcasts in the first quarter this 2019. I'm like, I hit Gil. I said, read this article. Because I'm a researcher. I'm the dude that's always on my laptop. I'm always looking for the next article, the next information. I got to be on top of it. I sent it to him. He like, yo, what the. He couldn't believe it. I said, yo, man, this is. And next thing you know, April 19, April 17, April 17, 2019, we started within not even six months, we on the charts. We on it every. Every number one a week music on. But the first. The first episode we dropped, we was number two under Joe Rogan in like seven hours on all out of all categories. And what happened is in like couple months, I get a call. Head of Spotify called me. I don't. When you hot, they gonna find your number. You don't have to work you. When people tell me they hot, I don't even pay you no attention. If you hot, when you hot, they'll find your number. So next thing, I get a call, and I think Shotgazulu might have hooked it up. Shout out to him. And I get a call. I'm like, yo, how you doing? It's a weird number. I just answered it. Yeah, how you doing? Is this Wallow? I said, yeah, it's Wallow. Yeah, I'm Courtney Holt, man. Spotify, right? I'm like, who? Courtney Holt. I don't know if y' all knew he was running this. So I'm like, who? So I called Gil, yo, this dude named what's name here, the Spotify on the joint, he get to talking. Yeah, I like to bring you all over. I said, what? I said, like, what you trying to do? I said, you know, a license, own. He said, yeah, we want to own everything. How much you want? I said, whoa, that scared me. Because anytime this was a scary call, I'm coming up at this time. So I'm like, what?

[Rich Paul]

Right?

[Wallow]

I'm looking at.

[Rich Paul]

I'm in you still in the twin bed?

[Wallow]

No, no, I'm in the twin bed. I had a nice apartment on 32nd and Diamond. Oh, this was a plush apartment.

[Rich Paul]

You still at Nanny's?

[Wallow]

No, no, I wasn't at Nanny's. I came up. I was paying 8.95amonth. I used to pay my. I used to pay.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm calling you directly, though.

[Wallow]

He calling me direct. I'm in North Philly on 32nd. 32nd end diamond. I'm paying $890 a month. My joint. I'm paying it by three months at a time. Because I'm doing my thing. I'm already making money. So I'm like, what? So I get Gil on the joint. Gil like, whoa, I gotta get my legal. He said, listen, send an email. Boom, boom, boom, boom. So they going back and forth. And the process of them going back and forth. Cause we smoking hot. We doing it like. We doing it from the. And it's just me and Gil Barstool come into play. And they wasn't playing. They came down and closed the deal in like five minutes. And it was on from there. Licensing deal, 36 months. And we just started doing our thing. Pandemic hit, and we was traveling all around. Cause everybody was like, I want to get on the show. KD called. Is like. He hit me up in the dm. Kevin Durant like, yo, I want to get on the show. Shout up to the joint. We just kept everybody. Everybody wanted to get on.

[Rich Paul]

Now, when did it really. Because I feel like it really took off when you started to go and interview the music artists.

[Wallow]

Yeah, the music artists. Like, we was going. We went everywhere. We was going to thug. We was going. I'm talking about. We was going to people hoods. We was going to people communities. We was getting all the boxers. I'm talking about every legend had been on Million dollars. Riffic Game, Bernard Hopkins, Danny Garcia, Floyd Mayweather, Canelo. We got everybody. I'm talking about. We was. They was just. They was loving it. And we was a part of boxing promotion. When the big fight had come, Tanka, come on there. Face off, we was getting. We was just getting anybody. And then the artists, we just going into their neighborhoods. We get down there with Durk, we going into. And we just was. We just was doing what nobody would do. Because a lot of rap was cut out. Because if you wasn't a certain age bracket or if you wasn't like legendary hip hop, a lot of platforms wasn't dealing with you. We came in to deal with the Young cats. And, you know, because we was young, so we understand the struggle, and it just took off. I'm talking about it just.

[Rich Paul]

Well, congrats to you guys, man. I mean, you know, obviously, being in the space, we know how hard it is. And Max is a pro, obviously. Being Max, next level being. I don't know how long he'd been on TV. I stopped counting. I mean, 30 years, max.

[Max Kellerman]

Almost like 28 years.

[Rich Paul]

This is what I'm saying. So he was educating me on how hard it is to develop an audience, how hard it is to. To, you know, have a connectivity, and you have to build the listener, and you have to get in and out of things the proper way.

[Max Kellerman]

What was special about them was it was. It's almost never. Almost never on day one, even if you think of a hit sitcom or something. Right. Usually by season three, like first season or two, there's something there. And by season three, it's good.

[Wallow]

No, but this.

[Max Kellerman]

But sometimes the right combination comes together. And day one.

[Rich Paul]

But I think they didn't take themselves too serious, because I remember there was times where you and Gil would be shooting dice in the apartment.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And then y' all start wrestling.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And then, you know, he. And the thing about not taking yourself too serious, y' all can laugh at things that, like, you. You talk about Gil not being a great music successful musician.

[Wallow]

I was better than him or you

[Rich Paul]

or he talk about you and what happened when you was incarcerated.

[Max Kellerman]

No, the funniest one that went the most, the one that everyone talks about, is when he was talking about how he didn't want respect, he wanted fear. And this.

[Wallow]

Oh, yeah, he was lying.

[Max Kellerman]

And then he was like, yo, where was I?

[Wallow]

I was there. That shit ain't happening.

[Max Kellerman]

That's one of the funniest. That's one of the funniest moments in a show, period.

[Rich Paul]

I'm gonna tell you something he did to me the other night. Now, you know this, right? Because I don't know if Nana. I don't know, you know, I haven't met her yet, but, you know, most grandmothers, they don't have their teeth in their mouth.

[Wallow]

Nanny Cool.

[Rich Paul]

You know what I'm saying?

[Wallow]

She 92, too.

[Rich Paul]

And so I said, so my grandmother was 95. So I said, my grandma, she ate Wrigley's gum. And I said that I would bring her Wrigley's gum, and I would bring her spearmint Juicy Fruit or Double Mint. And I couldn't bring her the Big Red because the cinnamon inside the Big Red. Burned her gums. This man busts out laughing.

[Wallow]

Man, that sounded crazy. I'm not gonna laugh.

[Rich Paul]

No, seriously though. But this man, he's laughing uncontrollably.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean that. Just the thought of the big red burning her gums. I. Listen, I would like to apologize to. Wait, Grandma.

[Rich Paul]

Grandma Campbell.

[Max Kellerman]

Campbell. Grandma Campbell. Can't hear you. I understand. But any existing relative, I guess I have to apologize to you. Right? Because.

[Rich Paul]

But anyway.

[Max Kellerman]

But, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

But anyway. Why are you a Knicks fan? You're from Philly.

[Wallow]

That don't make no. So let me just say this. Let me just say this. A lot of the greatest teams in the world with my teams, due to the fact of winners win, losers lose, I don't like. I just think these sports fans is the biggest losers in life. I see the Eagles when they lose. Everybody crying, everybody upset, the Sixers lose. I'm like, y' all still holding on to something that's not like y' all still holding on to some bullshit. I don't got time for that. So I got all my jerseys ready and I'm ready to celebrate. I love when a big game.

[Rich Paul]

But when a team beat the Eagles, you put on the team jersey that beat the Eagles.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, that's what he's saying. But I know people like this. Every little click got one dude is to celebrate the winner.

[Wallow]

You gotta understand this. This is what you gotta understand. Eagles is my team by default. Cause I'm from Philly. But when they don't do it, I got backup teams.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no. You can't get backup.

[Wallow]

Who said that? Who made that rule? Who the fuck made that rule? Rich.

[Max Kellerman]

Who are your backup teams?

[Rich Paul]

Who are your backup teams?

[Wallow]

Who's that last year? Okc. Shay. That's my guy.

[Rich Paul]

You had on the OKC jersey once they won. I never seen that jersey ever before.

[Wallow]

Ever.

[Max Kellerman]

No, I just said he had it ready.

[Wallow]

No, I had it. I had it on before I wore it.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, so who backup teams?

[Max Kellerman]

Who are your backup team?

[Wallow]

The Knicks. I really. Listen, one thing about it. See, I'm connected to the Knicks, you know, Wes. Shout outs to Okal West Worldwide.

[Rich Paul]

How you connected to the Knicks?

[Wallow]

Because Wes Camden. Okay, Philly, Brunson. I mean, listen, Brunson. Like, come on, man.

[Max Kellerman]

His dad used to be Nova. Knicks.

[Wallow]

I give you that back in the day. His dad used to be my coach for a team. So that's the connection. Yeah, you know, that's my squad. So. And then what's the name? Cleveland. I got love there too. Cause you know, they love Me in Cleveland.

[Rich Paul]

We don't rock with you in Cleveland at all. I mean, I don't know where you. I don't know who told you that lie.

[Wallow]

I done been through Cleveland. You'd seen me posted up in Cleveland in the hood. I was out. Listen, I was in front of the store feeding the cats milk. You saw me on MGK joint. They love me in Cleveland. I'm heavy out there. I got a day in Cincinnati.

[Rich Paul]

I got the call. They told y' all, Y' all had 40 minutes to do what y' all needed to do and get the hell out of there.

[Wallow]

It was a little dangerous out there,

[Max Kellerman]

but I was out there.

[Wallow]

I didn't.

[Rich Paul]

I didn't. You don't even know where you was at. You was on 116.

[Wallow]

I already know. I was trying to go to East.

[Rich Paul]

You didn't know?

[Wallow]

No. You know where I was trying to go to? East99 is where you find us slanging that gate. Oh, baby. I was like, where are both thugs in that? I was trying to go there. Cause they was talking about more, you know, they would say, you know, I was trying to go there. But, yeah, you know, all these teams, man, it's like, I ain't got time. Mitchell and Ness, Philly, you know, you know, right there, you know, Mike Rubin and I just go there. Get me some jerseys.

[Rich Paul]

You wasn't with Mitchell and Ness either. Not back in the day, before.

[Wallow]

I was in the joint. Okay, but what I'm saying is I got my jersey on standby. Cause I hate these people be leaving. They be want to fight. I'm like.

[Max Kellerman]

But I'm saying, which jerseys?

[Rich Paul]

Which jerseys do you have?

[Max Kellerman]

Standby, like, go through them. Which ones you got? Who are your backup teams right now?

[Wallow]

I got every jersey.

[Rich Paul]

I got Spurs, Thunder. I got every jersey.

[Wallow]

Knicks, Cavs. I got every jersey, bro. Every jersey. It is. I got mine ready, warmed up, and I'm ready to go.

[Rich Paul]

How hot was the Mitchell and Ness era?

[Wallow]

Mitchell and Ness was everything. It was special coming back. No, it ain't never go nowhere. I love wearing jerseys.

[Rich Paul]

That's true.

[Wallow]

I wear my jerseys.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, me too.

[Wallow]

It ain't never going nowhere. I think the sports fans is never going to let it die. But I got to go back to something that he said. And I just want to add more information for the guys, for the people that want to start a show. Because this is show podcast, however you call it, with me and Gil.

[Rich Paul]

This is a show.

[Wallow]

This is a show. But what me and Gil did was different. I don't think people paid attention. So when I used to go to advertisers, I had a different pitch. Because you had million dollars worth of game. But me and Gil had a show going on every day on social media.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, you did.

[Wallow]

People didn't under. So when I'm. So when I'm putting the decks together, you also getting the social aspect. I'm building it up, showing you the numbers on the social you got. And when you looking at million dollars worth of game, you got people that drop an episode a week. But me and Gil is coming down that timeline every day.

[Rich Paul]

Every day. Cause the thing I love y' all do is in the car with the music.

[Wallow]

Oh, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

That is legendary.

[Wallow]

Yeah, it's legendary because people don't understand when you go to the joint, you up there in the mountains, you listen to these stations. You know all that. So you know, if. If I'm singing Atlanta Morris said. Isn't it ironic, don't you think? It's like, they, like, how do you know that? If I'm singing Under the Bridge by Coach Red Hot Chili Peppers. How did he know that? He not. I'm not supposed to notice if I'm singing, you know, Hurt by Johnny Cash. I mean. Or if I'm singing whatever I'm saying, they like, how the fuck do he know that? And that's what came.

[Rich Paul]

It was on the radio in the joint.

[Wallow]

It was on the joint in the radio. And then VH1. I'm watching VH1 8 Morning. And so it's like, I know every song in the history of life. But it's like what we did was we wasn't afraid to be ourself. And when you looking at. A lot of times we make jokes of what everybody hold on to. So you know what I mean, I've been in spit. You never heard me glamorize prison. I'm joking about it, right? Like, we joke about stuff, and we just living.

[Rich Paul]

And we never heard you glamorize.

[Wallow]

No, I never. Because it's a joke. It's a joke. Like, it's not a badge of honor to go to jail. So I'm not telling these kids. But we joke about it, but it's like everything that we joke about is, like, stuff that people think is you can get a rep from. It's being so tough. A lot of times when you see us on screens, you see us always want to be tough from our culture. And when I'm like, we not on that. We just gonna laugh and we gonna do the things and say the things to each other that they not used to hearing us say to each other. And that's why people connect with it. Because when you see me and Gil, you see you and your cousin, you

[Max Kellerman]

and your brother, it's authentic.

[Wallow]

You see your uncles. That's my crazy.

[Rich Paul]

But you guys have been. Look, I've seen y' all see, I've seen y' all get emotional about your success.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

I've seen people around you benefit.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You know, taking care of your family and things like that. How hard is it to stay motivated while having the success you've had really such a short time? I mean, it's only been we in 2026. So what has been six, seven years?

[Wallow]

Yeah, but I've been at home for nine. But it's like nine and a half, bro. With me. I'm always operating like Nanny's house. My whole company is called I got Nanny's House Entertainment. I got Nanny's House Publishing. Everything is operating like that. Like, every time you see me, it's always another move. Every time you see me is in a spot where the move makers is at that people don't a lot of times have access to because I'm always making a move. I'm always hungry, and I operate like I'm broke. I'm always operating like I'm broke. Y' all see me, they be like, wallow. Why is you making spaghetti oodles and noodles? Because I think it was more affordable to buy the oodles and noodles. They was cheaper than the spaghetti in the aisle. Like these. These. Like, it was cheaper.

[Rich Paul]

So what about the health aspect of it?

[Wallow]

Oh, I'm cool. I ain't worried about that.

[Rich Paul]

Well, no, you eat. I've been with you.

[Max Kellerman]

You eat health. Bernard. That's some Bernard Hopkins shit.

[Rich Paul]

No, I've been with.

[Wallow]

I've been with. He's been selective over in Miami. When I go to my crib in Miami, I'm riding 20, 21 miles on a bike.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Wallow]

I'm walking the back like, I'm walking 17. Like, you know, took it too far. I'm. I'm on my. I'm on my game, man.

[Rich Paul]

But you.

[Max Kellerman]

Wow, you got it now. You have to enjoy some of the fruits of your success.

[Wallow]

I am. When I'm. When I'm in Miami and that sun hit me and I'm in that water and I'm riding that bike and everybody's happy and the energy. Miami can make me 10 years younger.

[Max Kellerman]

When everyone stops. Don't talk about it. By the way.

[Wallow]

Choose 10 years younger.

[Max Kellerman]

Choose you every single.

[Wallow]

No, no. Yes to you.

[Max Kellerman]

Listen, you know to. Yes to use.

[Wallow]

No to them. Yes to you. No to them.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

Pre order this book right now. Go every. Listen. Everywhere books are sold. Barnes and Noble, Amazon Prime. Pre order this book right now. It's so many get jewels in here. I give you the. It's just like social media.

[Rich Paul]

Let me see the book. Let me see Wallow.

[Max Kellerman]

Let me help you out with that for a second. You got out. You got out. What year? 17, 18.

[Wallow]

Yeah, 2017.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. Wallow gets out in 2017. We're not even 10 years later. And he did what he did two years out and he started million dollars worth of game me and Gil. So you and Gil, of course. And this is yes to you, no to them.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

So it would seem that there are some lessons to be that he's learned. That one right here that he's.

[Rich Paul]

If you don't like what's going on in your life, reinvent yourself. I mean you can close the book after that.

[Max Kellerman]

How do you reinvent yourself? That's a big thing.

[Rich Paul]

By removing your ego.

[Wallow]

No, not just that. If you don't like who you are, why you still holding on to that? Why you still holding on to? Why you still holding on to yesterday? But hold and I got another one. A month and a half ago, I dropped my own sneaker. Airplanes. A hotel travelers sold 2,000 pair in two hours. No back net. You didn't.

[Rich Paul]

You didn't send us any.

[Wallow]

No, I got you. No, no. No paid ads. None of that. My own stuff. Airplanes, hotel. I have my clothing line since 2023. Airplanes. And they call the airplanes and hotels because that's my favorite places. Ain't nothing like when you land in that city and you just feel good when that plane and you go to that hotel, you take that shower where you go to go eat everything. And one thing about it, I ain't afraid to market my products.

[Max Kellerman]

The crazy thing is too I'm always looking for a matter of fact we just got. I'm always looking for kicks I could wear on the plane.

[Wallow]

Don't worry about it.

[Max Kellerman]

I got you go to the gym. You know what I mean? Not have to pack in the bag. The whole thing.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, send me my. Put them in my office.

[Wallow]

Yeah, but like get the book. Pre order the book right now. Go on Amazon, get you. I'm telling June 16th I'm going on a book tour. It's going down before we get you out of here.

[Max Kellerman]

So the lessons that so so the things that you use to go from prison within a decade to where you are now is in the book.

[Wallow]

Is in. The book is on. I'm talking about. It's so much game in that book. And one of the most powerful games. You gotta understand. I come from the ghetto, right? And what I need people to understand is that there's so many possibilities after struggle, there's possibilities after prison, there's possibilities after addiction, there's possibilities after homelessness. And people don't know how to connect with that. You gotta cut the noise off. And when we come from. We come from a critical place. One of the strongest things and one of the greatest things that I did, I was able to kill the hood opinion. I don't give. I don't care what nobody say when I'm moving and I'm moving, I don't care what you think about me. Thank you. Haters is your marketing team. It's in the book. Let them work.

[Max Kellerman]

Haters is your marketing.

[Rich Paul]

I've been there.

[Wallow]

Because let me tell you something very important.

[Max Kellerman]

How are Haters your marketing team?

[Wallow]

Because when somebody hate on me, they can say they're gonna be online. They could be like, wallow this. Wallow this. You know what that's gonna make somebody? They're gonna go to my platform.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

And they go research, and they go say, oh, he's winning. Thank you. You just did marketing for me. When you talk about me, I make more money when people talk about me.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a couple hundred GS at least.

[Wallow]

I get more sales when people talk about, please hate on me.

[Rich Paul]

But wallow. The one thing I can say about Wallow, he always congratulates. And when I say, I'm saying he's genuinely happy for something you have going on. But you said something about ghetto. You've come from the ghetto. Yes, Right. But what is the ghetto actually? Is the ghetto. Is the ghetto because of what? Because there's ghettos everywhere?

[Wallow]

No, no, no. But our ghetto was different.

[Rich Paul]

Because of what, though?

[Wallow]

Listen, our ghetto is different because. And when I say I come from the ghetto, I'm talking about. I come from. The ghetto was an extraordinary place because you got. You got knowledge, then you got life knowledge. The ghetto gave me life knowledge. I seen some extraordinary things take place in the ghetto. Everybody look at it from a bad perspective. I look at it from a. From an outlook of, you know, how much education I got, you know, the ingenuity that it takes to be able to make it happen. I. One day I went to a scene on the lot. I had to go do a show for hbo. And when I got off, the director was like, you're just great. How long you been acting? You've been. I said, I've been acting my whole life. And she said, what you mean? I said, when I was in the ghetto coming up, I was acting like I wasn't hungry when I was. I was acting like I wasn't sad when I was. I was acting like. When I was happy when I.

[Rich Paul]

Acting like I was rich when I was broke.

[Wallow]

Broke. So it's a thing that the ghetto give you. It's a beautiful place, and I love coming there, and I love. When I grew up in the inner cities of America, I had so many teachers, good, the bad, the ugly. But I was getting an education. You know what I mean? And then when I went to the penitentiary, I was getting an education from all the professors in there. I wasn't in jail. I was in Yale. I wasn't in prison. I was in Princeton. I wasn't in the State. Penn. I was in Penn State. So that ghetto, when you think about that, it gives you so. It's so much. We was giving because we didn't. We didn't have nothing, but we had everything because we had each other.

[Rich Paul]

That's why I named my book Lucky Me, right? Because although I was. I seem to be unlucky, I was the luckiest guy ever because of exactly all.

[Max Kellerman]

We're gonna have to take your word for it that you called your book Lucky Me because it's not on the table.

[Rich Paul]

Well, bring it here.

[Max Kellerman]

See, I know exactly. I know exactly.

[Rich Paul]

Let's show him, Dean. Dean, let's show him.

[Max Kellerman]

There you go.

[Rich Paul]

I got to super size.

[Wallow]

That's why you still got that stand and you had that fake chain on. That's why your neck's still green. You got the marks on your neck. That chain was fake, man.

[Rich Paul]

That.

[Wallow]

That was a fake chain right there.

[Rich Paul]

You think so?

[Wallow]

Yeah, that was a fake chain.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Wallow]

That's okay.

[Max Kellerman]

You look like you was 93 pounds. That's a big herringbone. That's a big.

[Wallow]

That was fake. That was a fake joke.

[Rich Paul]

The bigger the herringbone, the more action.

[Wallow]

No, no, that was fake, man. That was a fake chain.

[Rich Paul]

But no, in all seriousness, he's right.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, of course.

[Rich Paul]

Because I really consider. Think about it, man. You talk about higher education. My higher education was on the corner of 125th and Arlington. That was my campus. Sure. And every day, I got to do math. I got to do science. I had history I had social studies. The experience you gain just with people skills. My dad owned a store. I'm dealing with everyone's. When you own a service business, people bring their problems to you every day. But remember, the customer's always right. So now I have to navigate how to absorb your problems while still helping you. Help me by buying a product that we're selling. That's tough to do at 9, 10, 11, 12 years old.

[Max Kellerman]

Sounds like the lesson that you can take from it is whatever your environment is good or bad, you can pull stuff from that. You have resources that you have lessons to learn that you can apply in your life. Right?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's a lot of 100%. Now, before we let you get out of here. To content business, right?

[Wallow]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

How important is content? Because, you know, I got flack. I got a lot of flack from doing this, but content is king. What's your thoughts on that?

[Wallow]

You only get flack from people that want to do what you're doing and not doing it. You never get flack from the people that like, like. You gotta think about it, man. Haters is your marketing team. Let them work this. Number one content business is extremely important. But content business is not for everybody. A lot of people that pose to be that's doing content, sometimes they pose to be the backers of content because there's a lot of great, talented people out there. And that's what I'm doing with my new company, Nanny's House Entertainment. Whereas I got a lot of shows coming. They'll be coming to Netflix soon and all these other platforms. I'm just putting it out there. But, like, there's so many great, talented people out there, and we need to start investing more in them. And when you see them, you know, but you need content in order to operate because everybody got it. You got to tell your stories. A lot of stories out there that need to be told. Just like when you see shows or podcasts, somebody was like, man, it's too much. It's never going to be enough podcast because it's always a new idea out there. But if somebody out there right now, can I talk to them directly?

[Rich Paul]

Sure.

[Wallow]

If you out there right now, put that camera on me, I'm talking to you. I don't know what I'm looking right there. That's the camera I'm looking at. Let me tell you something. You got the idea. Put it out there. Stop waiting for the perfect camera. Stop waiting for the perfect time. You already got the information in your head. Take your phone, start Shooting your show, start shooting your podcast, start shooting your movie. I had Spike Lee on the show. And Spike Lee said all you need is to you use your phone. It's all about the content. Stop overthinking this. Go after your dreams. You talking to a dude that spent most of my life incarcerated. Only thing that was different to me, to everybody else. I was crazy enough to believe in everything that I wanted to do and just went after wasn't perfect for me. I didn't know everything. I wasn't in the entertainment business. Now I'm all in Hollywood making deals. That's unimaginable. All because I pulled the trigger. There's a lot of people out there that's looking for you. You got the talent. You got it in you. You just gotta pull the trigger on your dreams and the next level is waiting for you.

[Rich Paul]

And the game is over. I got nothing to say after that.

[Max Kellerman]

Ho.

[Wallow]

Get the book.

[Max Kellerman]

Pre order the book.

[Rich Paul]

That's a million dollars worth of gang.

[Max Kellerman]

Pre order.

[Wallow]

Less to you. No to them. Hey, house. Shout out to my agent.

[Rich Paul]

I want to see one mark.

[Wallow]

Oh, I got you, man. Don't worry about that, man. I'm gonna see you on some sneaks too, man.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, great.

[Wallow]

You know, I mean, the sneak's coming back.

[Rich Paul]

I support my people.

[Wallow]

Airplanes, a hotel, nanny's house. You see, you know. Yes. You know, to them promo, you gotta promote your product.

[Max Kellerman]

Such a great airplane to hotel.

[Wallow]

I owe all my stuff. Yes.

[Rich Paul]

Good thing I'm a bootleg it.

[Wallow]

No, don't worry about it.

[Rich Paul]

I got.

[Wallow]

I got a mean legal team. I'm a lean on you.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but then you cancel out.

[Wallow]

We going to set up.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, he can't. Listen, you can't sue me just because

[Wallow]

you ain't sue me. I ain't see the battle.

[Rich Paul]

I want my.

[Wallow]

You infringe on this. I'm on you. Listen, don't worry about it.

[Rich Paul]

I'm going to come ding. I need to. I need Varsity jacket, airplanes and hotel.

[Wallow]

The name of the company. The name of the company. Listen, I'mma sue him so good. Listen, I'm to going and sue him so good. I'm gonna remove the K. It's gonna be Ush. That's gonna be name of the company. Ush. Ush. It ain't gonna be clutch no more, man. I'm gonna take the K. I'm telling you, man. But listen, man, go get the book. Pre order it right now. Go on. Everywhere books are sold.

[Rich Paul]

Who winning the finals?

[Wallow]

What finals?

[Rich Paul]

NBA finals.

[Wallow]

Who winning my team Whoever win, Jermaine, we gonna win. I'm gonna have a jersey on. I'm gonna be celebrating. I'm gonna be crying when we win the chip.

[Rich Paul]

All right, man, we're done.

[Wallow]

I hope the Knicks win, though.

[Max Kellerman]

If he wears your kicks, will you wear some Lux sports gear?

[Wallow]

Oh, man, yeah, I wear. Whatever, man. He already wore stuff. What are you talking about?

[Rich Paul]

I send you stuff all the time.

[Max Kellerman]

You never wear.

[Wallow]

I always wore your stuff. Just because you don't see me, my whole life ain't on social media all the time. Well, how.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, a lot of it is, though. Wallow. To be fair, a lot of it is.

[Wallow]

Oh, yeah, okay.

[Rich Paul]

Don't go on social media when you don't have my stuff.

[Wallow]

I got you. All right, Say no more. I got you.

[Rich Paul]

Nut. Gill like. Yeah.

[Wallow]

Listen, listen, listen. The next time you get in close proximity to Gil, I'm betting on Gil. Gil gonna cook you because you got people. He's a beast out here. Gil, 52 years old, out here barbecuing dudes.

[Rich Paul]

I beat you out the money already. Walo. And I gave it to the children. No, Gil was shooting against Ghoul.

[Wallow]

Gil was playing with you? Gil was. Gil was a monster out here. Gil is one of the. Gil could play in the league. Gil could get a day in the league.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, I heard a lot of people talk about how nice Gil is.

[Wallow]

Still get him a Dan in league. Get Gil a Dan elite.

[Rich Paul]

Gil is a great, really good basketball player. He's a better shooter, that's all.

[Wallow]

No. Ken, can I ask you a question and be honest?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

Is Bill. Is Gil a better shooter than a good 15 players in the NBA? Tell the truth.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Wallow]

You said he was before. Now you want.

[Rich Paul]

See, I lied.

[Max Kellerman]

He's not as good. So there aren't 15 dudes just pure shooting?

[Rich Paul]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, guys that don't shoot. But I'm saying he's better than.

[Wallow]

That's all that matters.

[Max Kellerman]

Talking about just shooting, right?

[Wallow]

It don't matter.

[Rich Paul]

Guys who are in their scouting report as shooters.

[Wallow]

No, Kagil would have went to the NBA.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Wallow]

Why?

[Rich Paul]

I mean, he didn't go to the game. I just saw him at a game. Him twice. I just saw him, his wife at the game. They was looking fantastic.

[Wallow]

They was looking fast. Listen.

[Rich Paul]

They was looking fantastic. He looked great.

[Wallow]

Could he be a coach? Tell the truth.

[Rich Paul]

No, he. No, because he had anger management problems.

[Wallow]

He cannot be a handle. He just going to tell the dude you soft. He can't tell a player. He's Soft.

[Rich Paul]

Well, listen, Gil's doing it. Gil's doing exactly what he should be doing.

[Wallow]

Playing.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way.

[Rich Paul]

They're doing a great job.

[Max Kellerman]

There's a. There's a show idea in there. Well, there's a show idea.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, well, we'll talk about it.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? Right?

[Wallow]

We're not giving talk. We ain't giving it up.

[Rich Paul]

No, we ain't giving it up. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it.

[Wallow]

Go get the book.

[Rich Paul]

Appreciate you, though.

[Wallow]

I appreciate you, man.

[Rich Paul]

Appreciate you coming.

[Wallow]

Yes. You know, to them.

[Rich Paul]

That was great.

[Wallow]

Everywhere books are sold.

[Rich Paul]

All right.

[Max Kellerman]

Go get it.

[Rich Paul]

Go get it. Game [e-mail].

[Max Kellerman]

game over with Max Kellerman and Rich

[Rich Paul]

Paul and special guest wallow right here.

[Wallow]

Wallow267.

[Rich Paul]

Now, Gil gotta come. I got.

[Wallow]

Oh, he gonna come. He's going now.

[Rich Paul]

I gotta hear from you.

[Wallow]

He gonna talk sports.

[Rich Paul]

He's gonna be so mad.

[Wallow]

He gonna give you. He gonna talk that sports.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, yeah. We gotta bring Gil on.

[Wallow]

Talk sports.

[Max Kellerman]

Sports.

[Wallow]

Real sports.

[Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Wallow]

He gonna roll some of you. He gonna roll some of you. Some of your clients.

[Rich Paul]

All right.

[Wallow]

He gonna roll. Go get the.

[Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods Market. Peach apricot rose Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending Mango Yuzu Chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 Strawberry Pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. Presenting the Friar's turkey breast only from Boar's Head, a backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905.

[Rich Paul]

Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Yo.

[Rich Paul]

How great was Wallow?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, no question. Dude has charisma.

[Rich Paul]

He does. Yeah. I see.

[Wallow]

Why.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, to have that energy, he got to be. He has to be drinking like, I don't know. He must be mixing Red Bull and electrolytes. He might put electrolytes in the red Bull.

[Wallow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

A lot of energy.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, a lot of energy.

[Rich Paul]

But you know what? He says some very profound things.

[Max Kellerman]

He actually is kind of cut from your cloth in the sense that you're always.

[Rich Paul]

Don't let him hear you say that.

[Max Kellerman]

You're always very enterprising. Like your mind is constantly open to the idea of opportunity. But. But the difference between you and most people is that they don't have the follow through. So you'll have an idea, and you'll follow through on it and try to actually make it real. And that's. That's for so many people. That's the problem. They may have an idea, but the. But the follow through, which is really the hard work, is not there. And Wallow has the follow through.

[Rich Paul]

He does have the follow through. But he said something that I talk to you about all the time when we talk just personally, and I agree. The education you get is weird because, you know, you dream of going to Harvard and Penn and these schools, you know, these. You hear about it all the time. When we used to watch the. The. The Cosby show and they. And they stayed in the Brownstone, and you felt like you had to be of a. Of a certain echelon to. To. To be.

[Max Kellerman]

Or at least Morehouse or something.

[Rich Paul]

Morehouse. Yeah, Howard. Right. These type of very prestigious schools, right? Didn't they spell. I think they were.

[Max Kellerman]

They were Spelman.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think it was Tillman on. On the.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, Tillman.

[Rich Paul]

They switched it. And you think you have to go there to. To get this education, this. But really, man, there's a saying that the old school people talk about where they talk about you getting the SAP from the tree, right? You just sit up under that tree, you get the SAP from it and the neighborhoods and the communities. Although there's these crude things going on and you deal with so much. But, man, it's so much educated. We call it gang. But really, it's a profound education. It's a life education. And when I talk about my book. Lucky me. When I talk about my dad, in the book, my dad was literally just this wealth. He was just this little short guy with a soft little Afro. You think he would have had, like, this.

[Wallow]

The.

[Rich Paul]

The oil sheen in there, but he has so much game to give, right? And he didn't just give it to his kids. He gave it to everybody. I can tell you, if you line them up, everybody that you would. Everybody came. My dad's store, they hate to leave, right? He gonna put you to work. You don't even Got to work there. Grab this, grab that. And you couldn't say no. He gonna give you the game. He going to be. He gonna give you compassion right when you didn't have it at home. And he's gonna, he's gonna give you just a confidence about yourself. And that's why everybody loved him. You would have came to Cleveland every day just to sit with. You would have came to. Every time you came to Cleveland, when you land, the first place you would have went is to hang out with my dad. Even if it was just for an hour. Y' all can talk boxing because he used to have all the boxing tapes lined up with the vhs. He had all the fights you love. He had them all on tape. He used to watch him Duran Leonard before you could.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, he had them all.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, he had them all. Now, he might have had a point or two right there, too. I mean, who didn't?

[Max Kellerman]

Who didn't?

[Wallow]

I'm just telling you.

[Rich Paul]

But this is all fact. But in all seriousness, you know, so I just, you know when he was, when it, when he was talking about the ghetto. That's why I asked him what he meant by that. Because people, when you think about the ghetto, you think black area. No. Every neighbor there's a ghetto. The Beverly Hills is. Ghetto is a ghetto. Right. It's not a negative thing. When you look at. Just look up the definition, actually, do

[Max Kellerman]

you know what you'll find if you look up the definition of the word ghetto?

[Rich Paul]

What?

[Max Kellerman]

The original definition of the word ghetto is a place where Jews.

[Rich Paul]

Exactly. I. This is what I'm trying to tell you. I knew that definition.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but it doesn't just. It doesn't mean a bunch of rich Jews in Beverly Hills talking about.

[Rich Paul]

It was in. It was. It was a neighborhood.

[Max Kellerman]

It was a community. Like my name, Max, and my brother's name, Sam, Harry, Jack. My dad gave us all Jewish ghetto names. Those were Jewish ghetto names.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. I'm just saying. But I think when you think of ghetto, you think of urban poverty, whatever. It's not the neighborhood like the physical neighborhood. It's the mentality of the people in the neighborhood. Because if you decided to, you know what? I'm going to take the trash cans. If they're not my trash cans or if they're my trash cans or not. I'm going to take them to the side of the house or to the back. I'm a wash them down, you know, I'm not throw, throw, you know, an empty bag of Doritos on the ground or if you go to Singapore, you can't throw gum on the ground. You go to jail, you might as well have a DUI the way you throw gum on the ground in Singapore. I'm just saying it's just mentality. So anyway, I thought it was great. It takes me back to different things, and so I got. I got really. I was just really thinking about some things there. But no Wallow was great, man. I was glad he was able to come on the show, and I was also glad we didn't tell him about the Chinese food.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh.

[Rich Paul]

Ooh, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Hold on, Dean, we got the Chinese here, here.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. What's up?

[Max Kellerman]

Let's. Let's first.

[Announcer]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Rich Paul]

Dean. Is he gone? Well, give me a second. Check his. He'll be gone. Because one thing. He might have two stomachs on that guy. And the way he eats. All right, the coast is clear. Good. Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Sesame chicken.

[Rich Paul]

Get that Chinese food. Sesame chick. Yeah. Bring it over here, Dan.

[Wallow]

What you waiting on?

[Rich Paul]

I had to fix me a plate first. Late.

[Max Kellerman]

We've been working.

[Rich Paul]

Been working. Work is understatement.

[Max Kellerman]

Although working. That's one thing about this business is when people complain, it's like, stop. If you're on camera in this business, it's not working. 21 and over in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 8, 18 and over and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchatinconnecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.