← Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul
Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul
Knicks One Win Away, Game 5 Preview, and LeBron and the Warriors? | Game Over
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- [00:01]
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- [01:45]
Max Kellerman
Rich I just got back from the city, just got back from New York. I gotta say something about what's been going on because the energy in the city is incredible.
- [01:54]
Rich Paul
It looks like it.
- [01:55]
Max Kellerman
But after game three and obviously the Knicks had the greatest comeback ever in game four. After game three you saw a lot of like Knicks fans chasing down people in spurs jerseys and stuff like that. But I gotta say something about that.
- [02:09]
Rich Paul
It's not, don't make an excuse for it.
- [02:11]
Max Kellerman
I'm not excusing, you know, assault and stuff like that. But I'll say this about how New York is actually feeling and telling people, people who are like streamers who were coming on streaming themselves, live streaming themselves. Yo, these New York people aren't gonna
- [02:24]
Rich Paul
do anything that's antagonizing.
- [02:26]
Max Kellerman
You shouldn't do that trolling. But I'm saying right now, in New York City, New York City's obsessed with basketball. It's the number one sport in the city. When I first got to ESPN in 98. I didn't even know the NFL was the biggest sport in the country. I assumed the NBA was, and I thought it wasn't close. Because in New York, basketball is by so far the biggest, most important sport, has the biggest cultural impact. Everyone. It's the only major sport, you know, of the three really major sports, because NHL is. The economy is smaller than the other sports that's played in the middle of the city, right? Not the Bronx, not Queens, not jersey or something like that, right? In Madison Square Garden, middle of Manhattan, everyone roots for the Knicks. And I know I'm the guy who, a couple years ago, when they got Harden and KD and Kyrie said the Nets are going to take over and blah, blah, blah. And clearly that didn't happen. That's the heritage team. People have been waiting for over half a century. Right. I haven't seen the Knicks win in my lifetime. And when people wait that long, that means it's connected to everything in their life. That means if you lost someone close to you, chances are, you guys.
- [03:38]
Rich Paul
Yeah, we grew up about that on the last show.
- [03:41]
Max Kellerman
The roots are so deep. Don't play with these people right now.
- [03:45]
Rich Paul
I understand that if you have the.
- [03:47]
Max Kellerman
I would not wear a Spurs jersey
- [03:48]
Rich Paul
in public, but that's not. You can't do that. That doesn't even make sense.
- [03:51]
Max Kellerman
What should be and what is are two different.
- [03:53]
Rich Paul
Yeah, but. But you can't tell me I can't wear the favorite jersey of. Of my player for my team.
- [04:01]
Max Kellerman
That's what New York is telling you right now.
- [04:02]
Rich Paul
Well, that's bullshit.
- [04:03]
Max Kellerman
It may be, but that's the reality. Like, look, look, I'm not saying. Oh, it's. Let me put it this way. In New York right now, I'm not talking about, like, you know, people are getting hurt really badly. I'm talking about ripping jerseys off and burning them and stuff like that.
- [04:19]
Rich Paul
That's corny. It's corny.
- [04:22]
Max Kellerman
If you talk behind closed doors to otherwise respectable people. I'm talking about teachers and therapists or construction workers or doctors or politicians or whatever behind closed doors, they're proud of that. In New York right now, there's pride
- [04:39]
Rich Paul
that they're defending behind closed doors, that's corny. I don't care about anything you talking about with that. If you are the Mecca, which you are, and I love the city of New York. I love the fans, all the boroughs, everything. But at the end of the day, there's a way to conduct yourself when winning. There's a way to conduct yourself when losing, I have no problem with the excitement. It's crazy. But. And guess what? If I'm in the city and there's a New York Knick game, I don't care who they're playing. I want to go to the Garden and go to the game. Because it's just that cool of an atmosphere and a vibe, the whole nine. Which is why I never understood how people looked at the Knicks any different than just that. I always saw the value in it in a different way because of where it sit, playing on Broadway every night, et cetera. But you cannot dampen that with. If you take what Leon and his staff has done, Mike Brown and his staff has done, Jalen Brunson, Karl Anthony Towns, OG and these guys, Josh Hart has done. And you smear that with the BS of you like, to me, it's just like, where's the respect for your own team? Like, where's the respect for you? I'll tell you this, you cannot have it both ways. There's no way you can have in an Upper west side, Upper east side, Lower west, whatever the case may be, this upper echelon, premium perception and then act a fool.
- [06:16]
Max Kellerman
I'll just tell you this, that doesn't make sense. I'll tell you this right now. And it's the same. Win or lose, I would advise people not to wear the. Not just spurs, definitely not spurs, but the jersey of any other team right now on the streets in New York. It is. And that's win or lose, the way people are going to react. Rich, let me give you. Let me tell you what.
- [06:34]
Rich Paul
I advise you to have your bail money together because you're going to jail.
- [06:38]
Max Kellerman
Maybe there's good, I mean, like, you know, there should be a rule of law enforced, of course. But I'll tell you this. I hosted my own radio show in New York for years, the Max Kellerman Show. It was a very popular show. I had a billboard in Times Square. I was Pro Nick my whole life. During the Eddy Curry years, I'm Pro Nick, right? And known that way. But then over the last, especially since Oakley got kicked out of the Garden, I've been very anti Dolan and therefore even anti Nick, and have talked enough negative stuff about the Knicks that if I am around Madison Square Garden, forget about not wearing a Spurs jersey. As a guy who hosted the Knicks, we were broadcast partners of the Knicks, publicly known for years as Pro Nick, but talked enough about negative stuff about the Knicks in the last five or ten years that I would be aware, like, I'D be aware of how some fans would react to me without a Spurs jersey on. Rich. That's how serious it is in the city. The emotions are so intense in New York.
- [07:45]
Rich Paul
No, I understand emotions, and it's great. Listen, if you're a kid growing up in New York City right now, if they were able to pull this off, it's unbelievable. Like, to have that as part of your childhood is incredible. If you're someone 90 plus years old or 80 plus years old, that's never, you know, saw your team win since you've been an adult, it's also unbelievable. This may be the only thing you want is to see the Knicks win a championship. I understand that part.
- [08:16]
Max Kellerman
Stay right there. Because we need to start the show right now. Yes. Because what you're saying is you're taking everybody up the escalator to the top. They got one more game to win, and then they're as high as they could possibly be. However, that game has not yet been won, and they're so high that that fall would be indescribable. All right, let's start the show.
- [08:37]
Rich Paul
Yes. Game over@Spotify.com.
- [08:39]
Max Kellerman
game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.
- [08:53]
Rich Paul
Last show.
- [08:54]
Max Kellerman
Oh, I got it.
- [08:56]
Rich Paul
Why didn't you tell me to wear a hat knowing I didn't have a haircut? That was very, very.
- [09:01]
Max Kellerman
First of all, last show, you'd had a long day.
- [09:04]
Rich Paul
I did have a long day.
- [09:05]
Max Kellerman
I could tell from your energy you had a long day. Not. You have. You have. You have a very important client on the Spurs. The game did not go well for them. Yes, several. The game did not go well for them, but that wasn't it. But you also have other things going on. I could see that. So your hair was not the first thing on my mind.
- [09:24]
Rich Paul
Yeah, no, no. I mean, you know, obviously, you know stuff.
- [09:27]
Max Kellerman
You're like Reverse Samson.
- [09:29]
Rich Paul
No, no.
- [09:29]
Max Kellerman
You need to have the haircut in
- [09:31]
Rich Paul
order to have you. I was watching this show. I was like, wait a minute. Max didn't even tell me that I didn't have my hair cut. What's going on here? No, I didn't notice.
- [09:39]
Max Kellerman
Was it not lined up or what was it?
- [09:40]
Rich Paul
I don't know. I'm just. Yeah, it wasn't normal, but I was just. We actually came from watching the game and it was pretty late, but I actually thought. I watched the show. I actually thought we were really good. I thought that we hit a lot of the great points, including the one we're talking about now in terms of. Man, listen, I know. My grandmother, right? She used to listen to the baseball games. Now you got me doing baseball.
- [10:06]
Max Kellerman
I can't even believe I like baseball, by the way. I don't push baseball on people.
- [10:09]
Rich Paul
I know, but it's like.
- [10:10]
Max Kellerman
Can I just say something about that? It's like soccer. If you're a soccer fan in a world where football and basketball already exist, you are rooting for an inferior consumer product. I. You may love it the most. And that's you because you grew up with it. I know. That's me with baseball. I'm not trying to say baseball is the same, is as good a consumer product as basketball or football, but because I grew up with it, I love.
- [10:32]
Rich Paul
I know. So my grandma.
- [10:33]
Max Kellerman
I'm not trying to push it on anyone, right?
- [10:34]
Rich Paul
But I like baseball. But my grandmother used to only listen to the games on the radio. And I'm like, grandma, why don't you just turn on the tv? It's like actually on. And she's like, no, I want to listen to it on the radio.
- [10:47]
Max Kellerman
That's awesome.
- [10:47]
Rich Paul
And so I'm like, okay. So I used to sit there with her and we would listen to the game on the radio. All she wanted to see was her Cleveland team win the World Series. I was a part of a championship, right in Cleveland. Not just the Cavs, not ever winning in 50 plus years. It was a championship for the entire City since 1964. That was the thing. I know what that felt like. In the same year, the baseball team was also in the World Series. It could have been a double bubble, but nevertheless, when you have this type of environment, like you said, you just came from New York. I can feel the energy through the tv Max. I got friends. I can feel their energy through the text messages.
- [11:34]
Max Kellerman
You could be in a building with the windows closed and something late in the game good happens for the Knicks. And it's not coming from one area,
- [11:44]
Rich Paul
it's coming from everywhere. Yes, from all the. Which is actually, I must say, is actually pretty damn cool. It's unbelievable because I just couldn't imagine a kid being a part of that. I was sitting in front of my. On my living room floor watching the game, looking up with my neck. It's got a crook in my neck because I'm looking up at the tv. But I was the only one, you know, my brother and sister could care less who won a game or not, you know, But I did. But imagine your entire building, community, bodega, everywhere you go.
- [12:21]
Max Kellerman
Like that has to your whole identity. That's why Rich, I'm shocked, shocked. Other people around me are like, no, I anticipated that, but anticipated what? Real. I'll tell you, I'll watch an Instagram reel showing diff. Like a school teacher in New York teaching the kids the names of the players. I'll get choked up. Like, I'm so emotional about it in a way I did not anticipate as a sports fan.
- [12:44]
Rich Paul
You cannot hate on that. As a sports fan, I would clown
- [12:47]
Max Kellerman
someone else if they told me this, but I have to admit it publicly.
- [12:51]
Rich Paul
No, you can't. But see, that's.
- [12:52]
Max Kellerman
I'm so like every little thing is making me emotional.
- [12:55]
Rich Paul
Let me tell you something. If there was something to be excited about now that the gambling has taken over sports and people only care about their prop bet, is exactly that. What you're seeing from the city of New York is what is actually needed back in sports.
- [13:15]
Max Kellerman
And the other thing about New York, particularly, like there's this one guy who started a chant like, my mayor is Muslim, my bagel is Jewish, my Christian's Dior Nixon 4.
- [13:25]
Rich Paul
Right.
- [13:25]
Max Kellerman
Which is kind of stupid, but it's like, you know, whatever.
- [13:27]
Rich Paul
It was cool for at the time,
- [13:28]
Max Kellerman
but the reason it became like in New York, it's everyone living together and the one thing is. And everyone's on top of each other. So like I noticed when I first moved to la, I go to like take my kid to the park. And LA is very diverse. So you'd see like black people, white people, Jewish people, Asian people, Mexican or Latino, you know, different. But it wasn't. What you noticed is they were kind of self segregating in areas of the park. In New York, that same scene, everyone's mixed together. Right. So whatever other problems New York has, that chant kind of hit on the fact that all New Yorkers, like, that kind of unites New Yorkers in a way. Like the Lakers are important in la. Cause if you take the Lakers away, there's no place in LA really where all people, socioeconomic backgrounds, racial backgrounds, et cetera, all come together in one place.
- [14:25]
Rich Paul
It's so spread out, it's totally different. And I'm saying, but I'm saying in
- [14:29]
Max Kellerman
the Lakers, that's one place where everyone comes together for a common cause.
- [14:33]
Rich Paul
Yes.
- [14:34]
Max Kellerman
So it's not so.
- [14:35]
Rich Paul
But it's different energy still.
- [14:36]
Max Kellerman
It is different in New York, it's not so much that everyone comes together for the Knicks, it's that the Knicks represent New York in a way where it kind of demonstrates, it shines a light on the fact that everyone's living together.
- [14:53]
Rich Paul
I'm seeing Lakers season ticket holders or Clippers season ticket holders, courtside season ticket holders at the Knicks game because they're actually from New York. So you can't really fault them because they moved to LA and they have these tickets. They, you know, built businesses and they were able to afford these tickets in LA where they lived.
- [15:18]
Max Kellerman
I was still a Knicks fan. I was so mad at Dolan for removing Oakley from the Garden. I did not see, I saw, Remember, I thought this team could match up well with the Spurs. They did. If they could get out of the East. I didn't know they were going to get out of the East. I wasn't aware the extent to which. I still, I still have that in me until this.
- [15:35]
Rich Paul
So as.
- [15:36]
Max Kellerman
Oh, man, look at this.
- [15:37]
Rich Paul
So, Max.
- [15:38]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [15:38]
Rich Paul
As a Knicks fan.
- [15:39]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [15:40]
Rich Paul
Are you confident or are you nervous?
- [15:42]
Max Kellerman
So this brings us to the real point now. Knicks fans are all the way up here and game five is coming in San Antonio. And if the Knicks lose that game,
- [15:55]
Rich Paul
we'll have a game seven.
- [15:56]
Max Kellerman
It's then they go whether. I still think the Knicks would close them out in six at the Garden, but the pressure on that Knicks team
- [16:04]
Rich Paul
in a game, let me tell you something, would be unthinkable if the spurs win game five. I'm not, I don't bet on sports, but if the spurs win game five, it makes it very, very, very difficult to win game six, even at home. Now, I agree.
- [16:29]
Max Kellerman
I think they'll do it, but I
- [16:30]
Rich Paul
agree, if it was reversed where game five was in New York and game six was in San Antonio, I would say easier. 100% of game seven. Yeah, 100% in this case.
- [16:39]
Max Kellerman
Oh, no, you're saying 100% of game seven.
- [16:41]
Rich Paul
If, if it was reverse, if they
- [16:44]
Max Kellerman
were in New York right now, right
- [16:45]
Rich Paul
now, and the spurs won game five to go back home to play game six.
- [16:49]
Max Kellerman
And I don't see the spurs going the distance in this one. And it's not out of disrespect for them.
- [16:53]
Rich Paul
No, there's no disrespect taken.
- [16:54]
Max Kellerman
I expect also the spurs could win Game 5 because one thing about that spurs team, they're tough. They're meant to be tough.
- [17:02]
Rich Paul
Well, here's what I'll say.
- [17:03]
Max Kellerman
Like, I know they just collapsed, but they won that Game three at the Garden in a must win situation.
- [17:12]
Rich Paul
Yeah. It's so hard to close a team out. I don't care if you play in the little Giants. It's just extremely hard to close a team out. And it's going to take everything from the Knicks to do so, which they're very capable of doing it. When you watch these games, though, Max, this could easily be 3:1. The other way, it could be 2:2. This has been.
- [17:34]
Max Kellerman
One team could have won all four games.
- [17:36]
Rich Paul
One team could have won all 4 games. This has been one of the most exciting series that I've seen in quite some time in the NBA Finals. If you go back, I mean, also, you know, last year, with the stretch that Halliburton had, It was great.
- [17:51]
Max Kellerman
No, there was nothing like this since 16.
- [17:53]
Rich Paul
We were let down since the injury.
- [17:54]
Max Kellerman
But that's been exactly 10 years since something like that.
- [17:57]
Rich Paul
Level. It's been since 2016 because.
- [17:59]
Max Kellerman
Because that game featured the greatest player of his era. The chief rival to be the greatest player of the era in. In Steph.
- [18:09]
Rich Paul
Yes.
- [18:09]
Max Kellerman
The winningest team of all time in the regular season in the warriors, and an underdog team coming back on them after going down 3:1. You know, the two faces of the league, it had.
- [18:20]
Rich Paul
Well, you had the. You had the. You had the best player. But who's the underdog? I mean, LeBron has been the underdog in most of the Finals. He's played outside of Miami.
- [18:30]
Max Kellerman
Who has. Yeah, LeBron. But in this series, you have a guy who has a chance one day, if he stays healthy, to be on that level in Wemby.
- [18:39]
Rich Paul
He's got it now.
- [18:41]
Max Kellerman
Right. He'd already.
- [18:43]
Rich Paul
We always thought, and you always said that if the spurs were to win, it actually, obviously it counts, but it's almost, like, premature.
- [18:53]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, they stole. They stole one ahead of time.
- [18:54]
Rich Paul
They stole one ahead of time, which gives you. You know, it's like starting a bank account with actually some real money in instead of, like, $25 that they tell you.
- [19:04]
Max Kellerman
That's right.
- [19:05]
Rich Paul
Yeah, that's right. You're starting with some real money. So. But when I look at this series. Right. And we can go back to game four, you talk about what took place. Obviously, Katie got his hand on the tip, which was a. Which was a great drawing I didn't see.
- [19:18]
Max Kellerman
When we did the show the other day, I said, this one time, I
- [19:23]
Rich Paul
didn't know, but you could tell by the trajectory of the ball. But I thought. And again, Dylan Harper's a great.
- [19:29]
Max Kellerman
My head was spinning at that point.
- [19:30]
Rich Paul
Dylan Harper's a great passer, and so I understand why he was taking the ball.
- [19:34]
Max Kellerman
Did you see what Cat did before the play?
- [19:36]
Rich Paul
Yeah, I didn't like that at all.
- [19:38]
Max Kellerman
He bring.
- [19:39]
Rich Paul
Cat.
- [19:39]
Max Kellerman
Cat. The Guy on social media, Cat is bringing the fans, which you're allowed to do at home. He's bringing the fans closer to Harper so Harper has less room to maneuver.
- [19:48]
Rich Paul
So he.
- [19:50]
Max Kellerman
Harper's going over the.
- [19:51]
Rich Paul
But let me ask you this question. Okay. He does that. So obviously Harper's a rookie. But if he's remotely thinking about doing anything outside of making the best pass and he hits Al Pelagonia who's standing right there and that's fan interference, what happens? Is there a technical foul?
- [20:11]
Max Kellerman
I don't know. That is fan interference.
- [20:12]
Rich Paul
If he misses arm.
- [20:14]
Max Kellerman
Yeah. If they're not on the court. I don't think that is fan interference.
- [20:17]
Rich Paul
I think the advantages of the court. I turn to throw the ball and I hit you.
- [20:22]
Max Kellerman
If I'm not on the field of play, I think that's your problem. I don't think that counts as interference. If I cross, it's like baseball.
- [20:30]
Rich Paul
Well, in that case then it's pretty smart. In that case. And it's pretty astute by Cat.
- [20:34]
Max Kellerman
I think when you think about that game, OG is getting all the. And OG right now is finals in MVP right at this moment.
- [20:41]
Rich Paul
We think that. I don't know if they would give it to him.
- [20:44]
Max Kellerman
What a heads up play by Cat. Oh my, what a play to ice that.
- [20:49]
Rich Paul
And look, the guy who takes the ball out in those situations become the most dangerous. We saw OG take the ball out. They send like a. It's a trap. But it's not a trap. But it is a trap. They send. They put two on the ball with Brunson and OG was the one that.
- [21:06]
Max Kellerman
Cause he gets ahead of steam going to the basket.
- [21:08]
Rich Paul
Yes. Normally the guy who takes the ball. So I thought in that case there was an opportunity. Where could you have had how much, how many seconds? It was only 1.2. There wasn't enough time. But I thought it was a really good point.
- [21:21]
Max Kellerman
But Wemby at least is not going to have the ball.
- [21:23]
Rich Paul
The pass block. If that's the play you're going for, then probably Wemby right to make sure. Because they had both Mitchell Robertson and Karl Anthony Towns in the game. But. But that's again that's all After Cards, the Knicks. The Knicks had the resilience to stay in it. And the spurs again, I've been saying this the entire time. This is not nothing new since game one. Just possessions, man. If you go back and look at any of these games, just valuing possessions, understanding the moment. See, this is all about understanding the moment. And when you understand the moment. You know, this is not your typical game. This is not just being up 29. This is being up 29 to tie the series in the finals, where we have two of the last three games on our home court. This gives us that opportunity. So at some point we have to know we cannot take eight straight three points.
- [22:18]
Max Kellerman
And this is the thing about the spurs team, their vulnerabilities, especially against the Knicks. Although one of these two things can help them. One is that, like, remember I said Castle and Harper and these guys and Bryant are like. Are like overgrown puppies. Like, they get. They're so exuberant, they get ahead of themselves, but they're not as wise and maybe coordinated as they will be in a couple years. That can help them in a way because they're flying around, making it difficult for you on defense, and they're also playing fast and loose. On the other hand, you could turn the ball over that way.
- [22:53]
Rich Paul
Yeah, but. But look, there's. There were some turnovers.
- [22:56]
Max Kellerman
The eight straight threes, you can't.
- [22:57]
Rich Paul
I mean, that's what I'm saying.
- [22:58]
Max Kellerman
Can last two or three threes. And then you got to.
- [23:00]
Rich Paul
Turnovers are going to happen. There's situations where you may throw a pocket pass, thinking the guy is supposed to roll, he doesn't roll for whatever reason, that becomes a turnover. You can live with that. But, you know, passing the ball in certain situations, we've seen them do it. We've seen all of those guys do it, where you probably say, well, just. Just hold on to it. Like you can. You can look back and look at all those things. But if you are the spurs, right? I'm not looking at any of that. Forget it all. I don't care nothing about what just happened. We have one game to win. That's. That's game five. Win game five. That's it. And if you're the Knicks, what you're saying is, we do not want to prolong this series. Because when you prolong a series, things happen. A guy gets his ankle tweaked, this
- [23:50]
Max Kellerman
happens, and then you don't want to go. And again, the fall from that. The fall from that height would be. Would be the biggest trauma in the history of New York sports that would exceed the 2001 World Series, where after 9 11, the Yankees come back on the D backs twice. And at the bottom of the ninth, Mariano Rivera gets a double play ball that he throws into center field. That was a huge trauma in New York, collapsing against the Red Sox in 04. Huge trauma in New York this would be the biggest trauma in the history of New York sports.
- [24:20]
Rich Paul
I would advise this year, if you leave these guys alone, leave them alone. Don't text them, don't call them, leave them alone.
- [24:26]
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- [25:01]
Max Kellerman
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- [25:09]
Max Kellerman
Build your own multi view, choose up to three streams and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights and instant replays. The FIFA World cup, streaming live on Fox One, offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. We're saying that they have a game on the road, however rich. Over 30% of tickets to Was it Frost Bank Cheaper Are being sold to New York addresses. The Knicks are going to be strong at Spurs. It may feel like a Knicks home game.
- [25:46]
Rich Paul
Yeah, but that doesn't help you.
- [25:48]
Max Kellerman
Why?
- [25:49]
Rich Paul
Because if you ask any guy, you rather play on the road. But you don't want the. You don't want.
- [25:55]
Max Kellerman
You don't have the distractions. Yes, you do. No, it's not friends and family.
- [25:59]
Rich Paul
No, that's not what the distraction is. The distraction is the fans.
- [26:02]
Max Kellerman
Why?
- [26:03]
Rich Paul
You don't want the oohs and ahs every time you shoot. When you're on the road, you're trying to close things out. I wanted everybody against us. I want this. 15 guys plus our staff and against everybody else.
- [26:15]
Max Kellerman
I'll take the. I'll take the fans. No, I don't take the fans in the arena.
- [26:18]
Rich Paul
No, I'm telling you. You're saying that. But if you think about it, even in games three and four, it bothered the Knicks.
- [26:24]
Max Kellerman
It really did not in Game 4 when they were making that comeback. Well, that helped.
- [26:29]
Rich Paul
Yeah, but it coming out, it really did. Like I don't know that the Knicks don't play well at home, Frost center, in a weird way.
- [26:36]
Max Kellerman
Yeah. By the way, I wanted to mention something. You see, what's the Monica McNutt thing, who's a colleague of mine at ESPN, I love Monica. Does the Knicks broadcast. So she's caught on a hot mic.
- [26:50]
Rich Paul
Every mic is hot.
- [26:51]
Max Kellerman
Seeing Taylor Swift courtsides or saying, you know, something to affect a girl. You're not really a Knicks fan. Right. And she.
- [26:58]
Commercial Announcer
Yeah.
- [26:59]
Rich Paul
Her shirt says Stevie Nick.
- [27:00]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, it's true. She caught some flack for that. Rich. Who?
- [27:04]
Rich Paul
Monica.
- [27:04]
Max Kellerman
Yeah. Taylor Swift can be wherever she wants to be. But if someone like Monica McNutt, who's hardcore, right, says you're not really a fan, that's not saying that you don't want more people rooting for the Knicks. That's saying that this person who's not really a Knicks fan is in a position that really maybe a Knicks fan should be in. You know, there's nothing, in other words, there's nothing wrong with. Nothing wrong with Taylor Swift taking a seat, but there's nothing wrong with what Monica McNutt said.
- [27:34]
Rich Paul
No, I don't think so. But here's the thing. You have, you have this with New York and you have with LA and a little bit with Miami when you have teams that are winning. And the one thing about the basketball game, a basketball game is somewhere where you can go and it's still luxurious. Like you can go to a football game and sit in the suite, but you probably. But if I got a court size seat, it's indoors. It's indoors.
- [28:01]
Max Kellerman
There aren't 100,000 people, there are 20,000 people.
- [28:04]
Rich Paul
Yeah, I get my drink sent to me, et cetera. It's some fly shit. Like you can put, put the clothes on. I'm with my, my, my friends. So you have to excuse people who may not be deemed as actual fans but want to be a part of the show in that moment. It's a girls night out. Hey, we're going to leave here, go to Zero Bond, get something to eat, get a drink, recap the night. You get that in New York. In la you would do the same thing. You're going to leave there, you're going to go to Bird street, recap the night. You get that in LA, you get in Miami, you're going to go to ZZ's, recap the night. Those three cities, you're going to get that. Anywhere else, you're not getting that. So you have to give. There's a lot of people probably at the games that hasn't been the One, Nick.
- [28:50]
Max Kellerman
There's this dynamic though, like a lot in boxing and I see it.
- [28:54]
Rich Paul
Same thing, by the way. Same thing in boxing.
- [28:56]
Max Kellerman
Yeah. No, no, but I mean, there's another dynamic here, which is they're the hardcore fans who. Who resent the so called casuals. And what I try to explain to boxing fans all the time is yes, you're hardcore. Thank you. Like that's that we're that little community. Right. We want as many casuals as possible. Don't alienate the casuals because like, you know who has the most casuals? The NFL. That's why they're the most powerful brand. If you want your sport to be the biggest, you want as many casuals involved as possible. Monica was not saying consciously, publicly bad Taylor Swift. She's saying she thinks privately she's a casual.
- [29:36]
Rich Paul
Yeah. And by the way, that's how people talk. It's not. She's not doing anything negative towards Taylor. That's just how people talk. And actually. And Taylor's not doing anything negative towards Taylor.
- [29:46]
Max Kellerman
But Knicks fans going to the game. Look, Knicks fans, I'm sure have a certain kind of feeling they might. I was a kid who sat in the nosebleeds and waited online overnight because he didn't have like season tickets. To get playoff tickets, you had to wait around the block. When you see people who aren't there ever and you're there all the time, but because of their celebrity, they're now sitting on the floor and you can't even get into the nosebleeds. Certain fans will have a certain feeling about that.
- [30:12]
Rich Paul
Yes, but inevitably. But let me just explain how this works. It's the Madison Square Garden. Right.
- [30:19]
Max Kellerman
Put a thug.
- [30:21]
Rich Paul
So when the Madison Square Garden does not have basketball games going on, when
- [30:27]
Max Kellerman
are we putting a Vaughn in front of Madison Square Garden?
- [30:31]
Rich Paul
Okay, well, it's msg, it's the Bronx,
- [30:33]
Max Kellerman
it's Brooklyn, but the Bronx, it's just whatever you want. Unless we're starting a new thing.
- [30:39]
Rich Paul
I noticed they do that with mlb.
- [30:40]
Max Kellerman
It's now the MLB for sure.
- [30:41]
Rich Paul
I'm saying it's the Madison Square Garden for the sake of this. My point I'm trying to raise.
- [30:45]
Max Kellerman
I don't dislike it. I just, I noticed.
- [30:46]
Rich Paul
Well, you don't control everything in New York. So here's the thing. There's dates that does not include basketball and. Or hockey. Right. Which is what's played there. Those dates are sometimes played by a musical act. Taylor Swift happens to be one of those musical acts. How many shows you think she Sell out at the Garden.
- [31:14]
Max Kellerman
She sells out wherever she goes.
- [31:15]
Rich Paul
Okay, then. So that's an access point for her. And again, it's just a girl's night out. I don't think neither one of these people are wrong, for that matter. I understand how people may feel about it, but at the end of the day, again, it's just one of those sports. If I wasn't in my position, Max, I guarantee you this. If I wasn't in my position and there was two teams. The Knicks were in the finals and they were playing somebody else. And I didn't have a client on either team. And I'm just in the Garden. I'm in New York for meetings or whatever. And there's a game, a finals game that night. I'm going. And if I can get floor seats, I'm going. And I'm going to go and put some vines on and hit. Have a good time.
- [31:59]
Max Kellerman
One last thing. We didn't really get into enough. The knicks are trailing 29 in game four. Wu Tang is the halftime show.
- [32:09]
Rich Paul
Yeah, but that didn't make him win.
- [32:11]
Max Kellerman
Let me tell you something.
- [32:12]
Rich Paul
No, stop it, Max. You gotta stop the nonsense.
- [32:15]
Max Kellerman
The Wu Tang, which is Wu Tang.
- [32:18]
Rich Paul
If I had to make pass or shoot.
- [32:20]
Max Kellerman
If I had to make like a tournament of 64, like, I used to bracket up killer animals and stuff like that around the tournament. If you bracketed up, you know, different genres. Like you had hip hop, rock and roll, whatever, Reggae, something else, whatever. And you would say the number one seed is this. Is that whatever. You know, I think in music, Wu Tang would be in the final four. Because I think they would come out of the hip hop category. I think. And honestly, this includes, like Led Zeppelin or Bob Marley or whoever would come out of the other categories. I think Wu wins. And it's the quintessential New York crew. And they come out deep, put on a show, and the Knicks come back from 29.
- [33:03]
Rich Paul
That's. See, that's typical. You're a fan. That doesn't even make sense.
- [33:10]
Max Kellerman
Was forever.
- [33:11]
Rich Paul
So if. If. And I rock with Woo. Of course.
- [33:14]
Max Kellerman
Wu Tang is for the kids.
- [33:15]
Rich Paul
I rock with Woo. What I'm asking you. So if Carlos Santana performs in San Antonio and they win, you're going to say it was Go do it. No, go do it.
- [33:25]
Max Kellerman
If Carlos Santana came out and they. Is he from San Antonio? But if someone came out from that area who's recognized as that area and the best ever. And by the way, they got. And they got inducted to. They're getting inducted to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame this year, New York, they're saying Wu is having a moment. Like the Knicks, they changed the whole juju around the team.
- [33:43]
Rich Paul
I rock with the. With. With. Woo.
- [33:46]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [33:46]
Rich Paul
I'm not rocking with that.
- [33:47]
Max Kellerman
They did, but.
- [33:48]
Rich Paul
Okay.
- [33:48]
Max Kellerman
Well, I would just like to thank Raekwon, Ghostface Method.
- [33:53]
Rich Paul
You could say that. Yes. That's some fly. Yeah, you can say that.
- [33:56]
Max Kellerman
Everybody. Yeah.
- [33:57]
Rich Paul
Who doesn't.
- [33:58]
Max Kellerman
You got.
- [33:58]
Rich Paul
Who doesn't love the wool, like.
- [34:00]
Max Kellerman
And old Dirty gets a shout even though he wasn't there.
- [34:02]
Rich Paul
Of course.
- [34:02]
Max Kellerman
But that's what I mean, Rich. A team like that is connected to everything.
- [34:06]
Rich Paul
But you're making my point.
- [34:07]
Max Kellerman
Even people who aren't there show up in your mind, like, oh, damn.
- [34:10]
Rich Paul
Yes.
- [34:11]
Max Kellerman
Dirty's not there because he's gone. But Matt, how long it's been.
- [34:13]
Rich Paul
It's New York.
- [34:15]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [34:15]
Rich Paul
Only in New York could you pull that off. You cannot pull that off in Oklahoma City. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
- [34:21]
Max Kellerman
By the way, what do you think it feels like for spurs players when Wu is there? Like, some of them, I don't know, at least their fathers listen to Wu and all. And they're saying Nixon 5. Nixon 5.
- [34:33]
Rich Paul
Listen, there's five boroughs. Like, what can you do? Like, Jay Z was at the game. This person's at the. Everybody's at the game. Like every. If you're from New York.
- [34:44]
Max Kellerman
And by the way, I left out deck, too. Yeah.
- [34:47]
Rich Paul
And your Knicks are there.
- [34:48]
Max Kellerman
Maybe the nicest MC in the whole crew.
- [34:51]
Rich Paul
I would say the cooler thing was actually booking them, having the wherewithal to book them.
- [34:57]
Max Kellerman
To book Wu.
- [34:57]
Rich Paul
Yes.
- [34:58]
Max Kellerman
I don't know how did they. If it gets back to the Garden
- [35:00]
Rich Paul
in game season, then you bring them back, right. Nas, by the way, I saw you.
- [35:03]
Max Kellerman
You're gonna have to resurrect, like Frank Sinatra and something like, what are you gonna do to.
- [35:07]
Rich Paul
Here's how you know something.
- [35:08]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [35:08]
Rich Paul
Let me just tell you. So one day I hit Nas, right? I say, esco, what you doing? He's like, oh, I'm just chilling in the city. I'm like, okay, I'm going to take you to the game. He's in la. I'm like, all right, let's. I'm going to come pick you up. I'm going to take you to the game. He's like, man, I don't even go to games. I said, what, you coming with me? I'm picking you up. Tell me where to pick you up at. He's like, okay, meet Me at the Supreme Store. So I go and pick him up. He's like, where we're sitting? I didn't tell him. I'm not telling you where we're sitting at. Long story short, we're sitting. When he gets to the game, he and I were sitting on the floor. He doesn't even go to basketball games. Nas was at the game, game four, cheering. He doesn't even go. So this is what I'm saying to you. When you talk about what could possibly take place in a city like New York when it's the summertime, it's not 10 degrees outside.
- [36:03]
Max Kellerman
The fact that they had Woo down 29 after losing Game 3, come out at half already, make the comeback.
- [36:11]
Rich Paul
Well, that's already booked.
- [36:12]
Max Kellerman
It's just perfect. It's like, that's that. That's why if Knicks fans are nervous right now, I understand, because we are dizzying heights right now. This close to the promised land. I get it.
- [36:24]
Rich Paul
Okay, so you're wary.
- [36:26]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, of course, man. There's no way not to be. But feeling confident, you know? Okay, so, hey, I have a question for you.
- [36:32]
Rich Paul
Okay.
- [36:33]
Max Kellerman
I'm hearing about mutual curiosity between LeBron James and the Warriors. Are they mutually curious?
- [36:43]
Rich Paul
Max, let me explain something to you. There's nobody that knows anything about anything as it pertains to LeBron. I told you this before all these reports. Nobody knows. They're just speculating. They putting out salaries. Nobody knows what. What was conversations been. By the way, there's been zero conversations. And there won't be any conversations until I have a conversation with the man himself. I have not had a conversation with him. He's not had a conversation with me. Whenever he gets ready, we'll have a conversation together about whatever it is that he wants to talk about that within the conversation. And that's just that.
- [37:25]
Max Kellerman
That was very insightful.
- [37:26]
Rich Paul
I don't know about mutual curiosity.
- [37:29]
Max Kellerman
I say this about LeBron on the Warriors. Do I think that gives him the best chance to win? No, but Rich, here's. Here would be the upside about LeBron on the Warriors. That's just so much fun for basketball fans, for LeBron and Steph to play together while Dre is still there. That is. You know, unfortunately, Clay is not anymore. But just for LeBron and Steph to play on the same team, especially with Draymond, would be so much fun to watch. And it's like one of those. What was that franchise called where they had Bruce Willis and Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger, all the old action heroes. To get. What was it called? The Expendables. That would be like an Expendables type movie.
- [38:10]
Rich Paul
Max, I don't even get into that because again, I'm not going to play fantasy free agency at this point. And also, again, I said to him, I'm going to let you relax, enjoy your family. When you're ready to talk, talk. There's no talking now.
- [38:28]
Max Kellerman
He can't. If the Knicks win the championship, he can't go to New York. However, if the Knicks were somehow to collapse right now and LeBron were to go to the Knicks, and then next year they won, that would be kind of the perfect. Perfect ending.
- [38:44]
Rich Paul
Man, I have no idea.
- [38:46]
Max Kellerman
But if they win, you can't do that. You can't touch that. Do you need any more help with this? I can keep going.
- [38:54]
Rich Paul
I literally have no idea.
- [38:56]
Max Kellerman
All right. You want to do some emails and voicemails?
- [38:58]
Rich Paul
No, I want to talk about Aaron Donald possibly going to the Rams coming
- [39:02]
Max Kellerman
back now that Miles Garrett is there. Yeah, that's like, you know, I have this thing. The. The defensive. There's a defensive crown. Like, J.J. watt was the champ of that defensive era, and then the next era was Aaron Donald. Aaron Donald wore the crown. That was his defensive era. And then Miles Garrett. Right now, we're in the Miles Garrett defensive era. The fact that you have that guy going to the Rams who came this close to winning a Super bowl and who's already won one with Stafford, and we're willing to go all in to get Jared Goff got there. Not enough. We'll go all in again, combine all these extra draft picks with Goff to go get Stafford. It worked. Came that close to winning again, and then pulled the trigger on a Miles
- [39:47]
Rich Paul
Garrett deal and signed Stafford for two more years.
- [39:52]
Max Kellerman
That's a. Because Stafford is a dude worth putting that kind of faith in. Yeah. Well, let's go.
- [39:56]
Rich Paul
After they drafted the quarterback out of.
- [39:58]
Max Kellerman
Out of Alabama, then Aaron Donald comes back. If he's just even playing 10 or 20% lower than when we last saw him, that's still a really good player.
- [40:07]
Rich Paul
Yeah. No, that makes you better. I think it's great if he comes back. One thing for sure, I saw the social media clips. He's still in shape.
- [40:14]
Max Kellerman
That dude is a. He's built like Aaron Donald's in the conversation for greatest defensive player of all time. Yeah, I think that's in that conversation.
- [40:21]
Rich Paul
So, Max, what are the keys to game five for each team?
- [40:26]
Max Kellerman
You think you're asking me for the keys, huh?
- [40:28]
Rich Paul
Yeah, I mean, I know you want
- [40:29]
Max Kellerman
to ask me, I would say they need to. First of all, the Knicks need to make a concerted effort to play through Cat more. And the reason I say that is because the Cat has a multiplying effect on the Knicks. The guy who has not made a lot of noise in these playoffs recently, but his overall, throughout his career, an excellent playoff performer is Mikhail Bridges. When Cat is more involved in the offense and the ball's moving around and Brunson is not over dribbling, the Brunson is. Everyone loves Brunson. Me too. I'm just saying. But that's a fact, right? That's part of his style. When that's happening. Bridges, I see like in watching that team, Bridges stays hot. Bridges becomes a real force. And that's a force multiplier. Because now you got. Brunson's a killer. OG is a killer. Cat running the offense is a killer. And now you. Josh Hart does everything. And now Bridges is another weapon in that starting lineup. And that's a whole lot. So for that reason, I think they really have to try to run the offense more through Cat in game five.
- [41:32]
Rich Paul
Okay. And I think for the Spurs, I just think it's just clean up the mental mistakes, you know, I don't think it's. I don't think it's much there. I thought going to the Fox and Wimby side pick and row. I think Wimby's going to have to get used to rolling. And you can tell they don't really have that rhythm down with that side pick and roll. They're not running at a lot to where Wimby's actually. You know, the timing. When you run a pick and roll with a guy, it takes time. It takes. He has to understand when to come out that screen. When the roll.
- [42:08]
Max Kellerman
The rhythm of it.
- [42:09]
Rich Paul
Yeah, the rhythm of it. And so you, You. You getting sometimes is there sometimes.
- [42:14]
Max Kellerman
They had it early in the game a couple times where. And then. And then almost all those threes falling were in a way bad for them because.
- [42:21]
Rich Paul
Yeah, because then you started to rely on that and now come. But again, this is where I think the spurs, especially this summer, when, when they. I don't think they'll make any changes per se, but if you're going to do some addition, the one thing they are missing is that guy you thought it would be, Harrison Barnes, but he's not really like a vocal guy, you know, Bismack, Biyombo, he can, but he's not really a vocal guy either. That actually won like I think, I think you need that guy that could say, prime example, what a Pat Bev was on a team that could say, hey, or Draymond. That could. If those type of guys are there, they're calming that thing down.
- [43:04]
Max Kellerman
Can Fox do that? Or because of what happened in Game 4, does that mean it's more difficult?
- [43:09]
Rich Paul
I think. Listen, like I said to de', Aaron, game four, that's over with. Everyone can critique and say what you should have done and shouldn't have done, etcetera, until they're actually in that situation.
- [43:21]
Max Kellerman
But. No, no, I understand that, but I mean, the reality is human beings are. We are what we are. So after coming off a game like he just had, especially at the end of that game, is he in the position to be that guy or would he get side eyed, do you think if he tried that in game five?
- [43:37]
Rich Paul
No, he wouldn't get side eyed. They don't have the. They don't. That team is together. He would not get side eyed.
- [43:43]
Max Kellerman
Now, by the way, that's why I think they could win a game five because. Because Knicks fans have to know you like whatever you want to say about Wemby and this and that. The team is not soft. They have character.
- [43:54]
Rich Paul
No, they have character. Yeah. And I think, look, I think the good thing about it is there's another game to be played. If you. This game is 99% mental at this point. Like I told you, the two days in between with all the media scrum and all that, that's something you have to fight. You cannot run from that in these situations. But you have to have no memory. Not just short memory, you have to have no memory. And so I think there's a balance. Like you said, hitting all those threes,
- [44:26]
Max Kellerman
Fox going to get a goldfish commercial. You know, those little. The gold, the goldfish. The guy wants to forget something. He wants to forget. So he's. Goldfish said, by the way, I want a commission on that one. You won't get it.
- [44:37]
Rich Paul
But, but here's the thing. We'll take you to dinner. But here's the thing. I think, I think just don't just serve me goldfish.
- [44:43]
Max Kellerman
I need more.
- [44:44]
Rich Paul
Just, just, just not the, the mental lapses. Yeah, the, the, the, the turnovers. It's not having turnovers. It's like having turnovers.
- [44:53]
Max Kellerman
Unforced live ball turnovers. Yeah.
- [44:56]
Rich Paul
And that's probably a little uncharacteristic of turnovers. So you clean some of that stuff up and try to fight for another day.
- [45:02]
Max Kellerman
Do that when Rich a Lot of what the spurs do is go, go, go, right? And.
- [45:07]
Rich Paul
And, yeah, but.
- [45:08]
Max Kellerman
So they're making passes they don't know. The guy's head's not max.
- [45:10]
Rich Paul
But, you know, but that's where you have to read the game. You can't play every game the same. Every situation is different. Every series is different. Every matchup is different. Right? So it's not like we play. You have a wardrobe. It's not Gomer pal. You don't have just. Your outfit's the same every day.
- [45:30]
Max Kellerman
Not in the military.
- [45:31]
Rich Paul
No. I just. So I, I think. And this is something that, that I, I continue to stress when talking about this series. It's like you gotta be able to read it, okay? If you're up 18, 15, 12, slow it, be methodical, you know, get a great shot. Of course you, you can get a shot. Anybody can get a shot. Anybody can take a step back three, anybody. You got the time and score. You have the shot clock. You got guys position who's in the game. Okay? You got Alvarado and Brunson in the game. One of those two guys have to go into this ball screen, right? If Mike Brown wants to do that. One of the. We have to make.
- [46:14]
Max Kellerman
I got to say something about, About Jalen Brunson, when I felt he was bad offensively in this series. He's been excellent defensively.
- [46:21]
Rich Paul
Yes, he has.
- [46:22]
Max Kellerman
He's been excellent defensively.
- [46:24]
Rich Paul
But again, this is where Styles make fights. Because when, if you see the Knicks, Mike Brown, he played Alvarado and Brunson together, why he wanted to. He. He's manipulating the game. You know, he went to his third big when Carl Towns got in foul trouble. He got to decide when to have Mitchell Robinson in there, when not. Because in the penalty, Mitchell Robinson wasn't making. Making the threes. He's throwing Clarkson in there at spurts. So he's. That's part of it. But again, that's his experience. He's been around. And so it's the same thing on the other end. And so again, the series could be either way, but the Knicks have really, when it mattered most, they made the biggest play.
- [47:06]
Max Kellerman
I got a question for you about Brunson before we get to the voicemails. Okay.
- [47:10]
Rich Paul
No, we got a couple more things. We got about five minutes here, max. Go ahead.
- [47:15]
Max Kellerman
Do you believe in the Kobe assist? So there's this theory about the Kobe assist, which is Kobe. What's not counted in his style is he took a lot of shots, but because of that, the ball is up around the rim and teammates can clean it up. So you actually do wind up scoring on some of his misses.
- [47:33]
Rich Paul
No, I don't believe in that.
- [47:34]
Max Kellerman
You don't believe in the Kobe assist because you could apply that theory to Brunson even when he's shooting a lot. If his field goal percentage is not Iverson. I never think. By the way, Study and play come
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Rich Paul
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Max Kellerman
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Max Kellerman
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- [48:15]
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- [48:41]
Rich Paul
So LeBron made a statement. Obviously. Congrats to him. He had the COVID of Time 100. He was sports Most Influential Player, sure. Or Sports Most Influential Person. So he made a comment, though, in there where he talked about he said, I'm not taking nobody over me. There's no question. But I think Mike will say the same thing, rest his soul. Kobe, Magic Bird, Shaq, Kareem Wilt. I don't think none of us are going to take somebody else. If there's a general manager and he's eyeballing all of us on the baseline with the number one pick, it's going to be hard not to take me, champ. That's what he said. You have an issue with that?
- [49:20]
Max Kellerman
I mean, Paul Pierce says that he would be that he would take himself first because Paul Pierce is a Hall of Fame player. But he wasn't LeBron James. Of course any great player is going to think that they should take themselves first.
- [49:34]
Rich Paul
Yeah, you would think that every great player. Here's the thing I have an issue with. I have an issue with people saying that somebody else wouldn't have done that. Who cares?
- [49:43]
Max Kellerman
Somebody else wouldn't have done what?
- [49:44]
Rich Paul
Oh, this person wouldn't have done that or done what? Wouldn't have said that. This person wouldn't call himself to go to this person wouldn't. Who cares?
- [49:52]
Max Kellerman
Okay, so I'll say something about that. I like the fact that LeBron will say something like that, and I like the fact that LeBron hasn't shied away from a lot of issues throughout his career.
- [50:02]
Rich Paul
Well, he's just now doing this. Yes, but I think before he did shy away. Now he's.
- [50:06]
Max Kellerman
But listen, when he said after 2016, I think this makes me the greatest. All this.
- [50:12]
Rich Paul
Well, that's later in his career.
- [50:14]
Max Kellerman
So I think that what people notice about LeBron or if we're talking on this show and something you say that somehow they feel diminishes Jordan, or that's the intention, is that Jordan. Everyone's being compared to mj. Remember when I said the anxiety of influence, how it's like Shakespeare and I
- [50:35]
Rich Paul
don't want to make this about that because you're going too long with that.
- [50:37]
Max Kellerman
And so people get anxious about it because, like, how can I be original if this guy did everything? So they're living in Jordan's shadow that way. And because of the way Jordan, like, even Kobe. I'll take Kobe, you could see was super self conscious about the way he was perceived. He gave himself the nickname the Black Mamba. Right. It's not like. It's not like everyone just started spontaneously calling him that.
- [51:01]
Rich Paul
No one. No one says anything about that.
- [51:06]
Max Kellerman
No, I'm saying it now.
- [51:07]
Rich Paul
And LeBron didn't give himself the chosen one. And people say that he did.
- [51:11]
Max Kellerman
And he. But Kobe chose number 24 because he wants to outdo Jordan. I actually think that. And it should have been 22 because he got close, but not quite. LeBron took 23. He didn't make any bones about it. It's like, yeah, that's the guy I grew up idolizing.
- [51:24]
Rich Paul
Took 23, of course, who didn't?
- [51:26]
Max Kellerman
But there's something about, like, Jordan never had to say anything. Like, I am the greatest now because
- [51:32]
Rich Paul
everyone else said it for him.
- [51:34]
Max Kellerman
Not at first. But the point is not you have to do everything like Jordan. The point is that Jordan came across as very unselfconscious. All he cared about was what he was doing. Kobe came across as having the anxiety of influence. I'm being compared to Jordan. I need to outdo Jordan. I need to make people think I'm better than Jordan. When LeBron does things that give people that feeling, he's like. So what you'll hear is he's trying to, quote, unquote, control the narrative, really.
- [52:02]
Rich Paul
I think you hear that from one person and that's not true.
- [52:05]
Max Kellerman
But that's. But I know I've heard it from more than one. But really what that's about is when LeBron or you or Mav or anyone who's around LeBron says something publicly that makes people feel like there's a consciousness about trying to make people see LeBron a certain way. They have that reaction because there's a sense that if someone really feels that about themselves, it'll be unselfconscious.
- [52:31]
Rich Paul
Yeah, but what I'm saying is when I say that's not true, in terms of people saying he's trying to control the narrative, I'm saying that's not true. Trying to control the narrative of being perceived better than somebody. I see that's not true. We don't. We don't. We don't have that conversation. We don't even care about that.
- [52:48]
Max Kellerman
But that's the way I think it's being interpreted.
- [52:50]
Rich Paul
Yes, but that's fine because there's so many things that has been interpreted that people have been wrong about. So many. But what I'm saying to you is there is a part of controlling the narrative to where you don't want your brand positioning or your brand. The narrative all over the place. Right. You want it to be streamlined, you want it to be authentic, you want it to be consistent. So that's part of strategy, too. But it's not from where they're coming from a place from where they're trying to place it. Just like you talked about. I seen some of the comments and people talking about it where he said that teaming up with somebody was not cheating or so on. It's a team sport. Again, I said this before. There's. There's been star players like a Tim Duncan, Right. Tim Duncan goes to the Spurs. When did Tim Duncan have to make. Right.
- [53:50]
Max Kellerman
He never had a. They took care of.
- [53:52]
Rich Paul
Yeah, exactly. Michael Jordan for the Bulls. Jerry Krause made a decision.
- [53:58]
Max Kellerman
He traded for Scottie Pippen, got Phil Jackson, Scotty Pippen.
- [54:03]
Rich Paul
Right. When Kobe Bryant got upset, they went and got Pal Gasol.
- [54:08]
Max Kellerman
Right. Who was underrated, but he was drafted
- [54:10]
Rich Paul
to a team that had Shaq.
- [54:12]
Max Kellerman
Yep.
- [54:13]
Rich Paul
Right. So when you look at. In LeBron's case, if I'm coming in as the chosen one. Right. And there's an expectation. He did the show with Bob Costas. The first thing Bob Costas talked to him about is being a bus. Think about this.
- [54:30]
Max Kellerman
Like, if you just make the hall of Fame, you're a bust. Yeah.
- [54:33]
Rich Paul
So you're coming in with this with this. With the highest expectations of any. Anyone ever in the sport.
- [54:39]
Max Kellerman
Him and Kareem. Yep.
- [54:40]
Rich Paul
Okay. But Kareem didn't have this generation of media and all those things. Right? And so when you position it in that way, if I'm not going to be helped by others, I have to then do what.
- [54:55]
Max Kellerman
Got to help myself. I think people have a.
- [54:59]
Rich Paul
People have a problem with you helping yourself. It's happened to me, it happens to him, it happens to all of us. It seems to be that people have a problem with you helping yourself.
- [55:13]
Max Kellerman
There are two things. One is. And people often say it's racial, right? But I think it's actually more about. In this case, it is racial in terms of sense that race is tied to class. But I think it's more of like a class thing where once upon a time, the boss, the owner, right, the industrialist, whatever it is, the great capitalist, he can make decisions, and if he moves the pieces around, that's fine. But who are you to try to take your fate into your hand? You're just a worker bee, right? Even if you're this big famous worker, you're still just labor. And labor should not have that kind of power. You should do what you're told and stay in your place. And I think a lot of the capital that controlled a lot of the media for so much of the history of this country and still does in many respects, had an interest in having that be the case. Right. Keeping labor in place.
- [56:07]
Rich Paul
And I'll end it here when I say that it doesn't matter what someone else did, that's not disrespect to them. What I'm saying is, great, they did it their way. When someone is successful, it's okay for you to evaluate things that they did and what made them successful while doing it. And being able to add that to your own portfolio, your own silhouette, to help you then become successful in whichever way you want to become successful.
- [56:38]
Max Kellerman
The reaction to the decision was the fact that LeBron was thought so highly of and as was Dwayne Wade, that the sense was if you put two of the top three players in the world or four players in the world together, you're trying to make sure you can't lose. And then with Bosh and Pat Riley, it was like you're giving yourself an unfair advantage. But in fact, what people found was that it's so hard to win a championship that in retrospect, they went to four straight and they won two, but that's what needed to. They didn't win Four in a row.
- [57:09]
Rich Paul
You know, and they started the season off 8 and 7.
- [57:12]
Max Kellerman
Not the same as what KD did. So I agree. LeBron does not deserve the criticism. In other words, the championships he won were as valid as any that anyone ever won.
- [57:22]
Rich Paul
I'm not even talking about the criticism. I'm just saying. I'm just. You can't have it both ways. In some cases, you can't say, oh, if. If someone is confident about themselves and they position themselves a certain way, that. That's dog. That's leadership. That's killer.
- [57:37]
Max Kellerman
Oh, you're saying that that's LeBron. Had to do. Had to team hop to get the championship or just.
- [57:42]
Rich Paul
Just the comments saying, I'm taking me over anybody. And by the way, if you're a gm, resumes aside, no resume. Just line them all up. No resume. 6, 8 and a half, 245, 250 with all the other boxes checked. You do take him.
- [57:58]
Max Kellerman
I'll take a second overall all time. Yeah.
- [58:00]
Rich Paul
You're saying that based upon a resume.
- [58:02]
Max Kellerman
Well, also one guy.
- [58:03]
Rich Paul
You're not no man.
- [58:04]
Max Kellerman
And jumped high. And you're saying it shot it really well. Was a dog. On defense, again, you're a killer in the clutch.
- [58:09]
Rich Paul
You're saying. I just said. You're not listening.
- [58:12]
Max Kellerman
You're saying just a physical specimen.
- [58:14]
Rich Paul
Take away any games you ever seen played.
- [58:17]
Max Kellerman
I'm taking Shaq.
- [58:18]
Rich Paul
Okay, then you take Shaq. Then you lose. So the point I'm trying to make is it's okay for other people to do things, but that don't mean you have to do them the same way they did them.
- [58:30]
Max Kellerman
That's right.
- [58:31]
Rich Paul
That's it. Yeah. That's somebody walking their own shoes.
- [58:33]
Max Kellerman
We agree about that?
- [58:34]
Rich Paul
Yeah.
- [58:35]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [58:35]
Rich Paul
Okay.
- [58:36]
Max Kellerman
Great show with great job with the show in the NBA Finals coverage. How about some coverage and unique perspective on the World Cup. The business side of is of things is unreal.
- [58:47]
Rich Paul
Politics.
- [58:48]
Max Kellerman
Politics and the beautiful game. Oh, I see. It may not be as he may have written this either in Spanish and trans. Oh, no. From Mexico City via Scottsdale. Nissa Mistrada.
- [58:57]
Rich Paul
Max. I'm watching the World cup at the Velocity Black residents.
- [59:02]
Max Kellerman
Oh, I. I just had Velocity Black. Very.
- [59:04]
Rich Paul
It was great. The provisions was fantastic.
- [59:07]
Max Kellerman
Yes, I can. I can say it's one of these places though. How do people. You know, you better wouldn't even know how to get in there.
- [59:14]
Rich Paul
You have to be a member get invited instructions. Just go and find it.
- [59:17]
Max Kellerman
It's very exclusive. Yes, very. The food.
- [59:20]
Rich Paul
I'll be back.
- [59:20]
Max Kellerman
Food was something Else too.
- [59:21]
Rich Paul
Yes.
- [59:22]
Max Kellerman
Yeah, that's quite a spot. You want to do another one?
- [59:26]
Rich Paul
Yeah.
- [59:27]
Max Kellerman
Maxim. Rich, big fan. My question, when a franchise wins consistently over many years, eventually there's a heel turn by the public. We've seen it with the Warriors, Chiefs, LeBron, Heat, etc. With OKC style of play, falling, flopping, foul baiting. Sports media, social media, and NBA fans are increasingly calling OKC out more. Seems NBA fans want the spurs to win because they play the sport in a more, quote, ethical way. Is this anti OKC sentiment after only one title justified many things? I think that OKC and SGA especially smartly take advantage of the rules and try to manipulate them by flopping, which he does more than everyone else, which is a fact, and it is smart of him to do because it's effective. It's not his fault that they reward him for it. And if the league stopped rewarding him for it, he would stop doing it. Nevertheless, it's not a particularly flawed, fun brand of basketball to watch, and people have a reaction to it.
- [60:23]
Rich Paul
Max, everybody flops. Not as much.
- [60:25]
Max Kellerman
Okay, but SGA flops more than anyone else. Right? Like, they've actually looked and studied. I think it was Haberstro or someone went back and looked and said, oh my God, yes. Actually, he was trying to debunk it and it turned out like, oh, no. Actually, it's true again.
- [60:40]
Rich Paul
What do you want the man to do?
- [60:42]
Max Kellerman
I'm not blaming him. I'm saying you're taking advantage of something they're giving you. So smart. But the reality is, fans aren't going to love to watch it unless they root for your team.
- [60:51]
Rich Paul
Okay, yeah.
- [60:52]
Max Kellerman
All right.
- [60:54]
Rich Paul
All right. What's our next show?
- [60:56]
Max Kellerman
What day is it? What week is it? I'm all, you know this.
- [60:58]
Rich Paul
I know.
- [60:59]
Max Kellerman
We're all over the place. What city am I in?
- [61:01]
Rich Paul
It doesn't even matter. Our next show is when we decide for it to be okay, because this is Monday, Monday. But Saturday is game five.
- [61:09]
Max Kellerman
Oh, no. We got to do it after. After game five, right?
- [61:11]
Rich Paul
No, we can't do after game five. It has to be Sunday. It has to be Sunday after game five.
- [61:16]
Max Kellerman
I see. Okay, fine. So it'll come out on Sunday.
- [61:19]
Rich Paul
It'll come out on Sunday.
- [61:20]
Max Kellerman
It'll drop on Sunday.
- [61:21]
Rich Paul
It'll drop on Sunday.
- [61:22]
Max Kellerman
New game over. Drops on Sunday.
- [61:24]
Rich Paul
Yes. See, you wanted to put this whole weekly schedule.
- [61:28]
Max Kellerman
Huh? Say it again.
- [61:28]
Rich Paul
You wanted to put this whole weekly schedule together about.
- [61:31]
Max Kellerman
Just want to go after the game. Game over after the game.
- [61:34]
Rich Paul
Yes. That was the original Thing then you wanted to do Monday, Wednesday, Friday,
- [61:40]
Max Kellerman
Various complications. You're a very busy man. You have a busy schedule. Golfing all over the world. That should be the next.
- [61:47]
Rich Paul
No, no.
- [61:47]
Max Kellerman
Golfing all over the world.
- [61:48]
Rich Paul
By the way, I'm missing a great golf trip right now. I can't go on. I'm sick to my stomach.
- [61:53]
Max Kellerman
Is that right? Where's the trip to?
- [61:55]
Rich Paul
Ireland.
- [61:56]
Max Kellerman
Ireland?
- [61:58]
Rich Paul
Yeah. You know, some guys have all the luck.
- [62:02]
Max Kellerman
Poor, poor little rich kid I am.
- [62:06]
Rich Paul
You know, I got work to do, man. Yeah. You know, people need to stop asking me to do things knowing that I actually have a fucking job. Okay. Quit asking me to go places you know I can't go.
- [62:19]
Max Kellerman
Right.
- [62:20]
Rich Paul
It's really annoying.
- [62:21]
Max Kellerman
Resent the invite.
- [62:22]
Rich Paul
Yes.
- [62:22]
Max Kellerman
They're taunting you in a way.
- [62:23]
Rich Paul
You know I can't go. Oh, you want to come? Why would you ask me that?
- [62:27]
Max Kellerman
Yeah.
- [62:28]
Rich Paul
You know, I cannot go. This really pisses me off.
- [62:31]
Max Kellerman
Fuel up the clutch jet and go over to Ireland. You could be back the same day.
- [62:36]
Rich Paul
Yeah, it's Delta. Yeah, I have a clutch jet.
- [62:38]
Max Kellerman
Right.
- [62:39]
Rich Paul
I would like a clutch jet.
- [62:42]
Max Kellerman
Little Lord. Fauntleroy. Fauntleroy.
- [62:47]
Rich Paul
Max, I'm doing Pat McAfee today.
- [62:49]
Max Kellerman
Oh, very good. Yeah. So go. You gotta go.
- [62:54]
Rich Paul
Yeah.
- [62:54]
Max Kellerman
Okay. I got a great golf course booked right now.
- [62:57]
Rich Paul
Pat Mc. I won't be doing that. No, I'm joking.
- [63:21]
Max Kellerman
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