Lakers and Cavs Down 0-2, Eastern Conference Matchups, and Vrabel-Russini Fallout

Summary

Podcast Summary: Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: Lakers and Cavs Down 0-2, Eastern Conference Matchups, and Vrabel-Russini Fallout
Date: May 8, 2026
Podcast Host: The Ringer
Hosts: Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul dissect the latest NBA playoff storylines: the Lakers and Cavaliers finding themselves in 0-2 holes, Eastern Conference matchups with emphasis on the Knicks, Sixers, and Pistons, along with sharp commentary on the state of contenders and superstars. The episode also ventures beyond basketball—covering Giants football moves, NCAA tournament expansion, cultural commentary, and the controversial Diana Russini/Mike Vrabel media fallout. Light-hearted banter, personal stories, and audience Q&A round out the discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lakers vs. Thunder: Series Breakdown

• [06:46-11:20]
  • Rich Paul nearly perfectly predicted the Lakers' loss margin in Game 2, reflecting on playoff pressure and the value of "timely shots."
    • Quote: “If timely shots was in a video game, it’d be worth like 10 lives. Making timely shots… is everything.” – Rich Paul [07:22]
  • Both praise Lakers’ effort, but recognize Thunder’s depth, athleticism, and ball pressure as overwhelming. OKC's plug-and-play roster keeps momentum, even with stars on the bench.
  • Special credit given to Sam Presti (OKC GM) and shooting coach Chip Engelland, noting the evolved team construction and player development since the Harden/Durant/Westbrook era.
    • Quote: “The nuance of putting a team together… skill set, talent, effort, willingness to win, buy-in, coachability, cohesiveness…” – Rich Paul [14:23]
    • Quote: “It’s an embarrassment of riches.” – Max Kellerman, referring to OKC’s young talent [14:39]

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2. Cavaliers Down 0-2: Harden Struggles, Pistons Poised

• [15:55-19:06]
  • Kellerman roasts the Cavs for trading a young point guard for aging James Harden. Both reflect on Harden’s playoff struggles and defensive lapses, but Rich diplomatically notes his friendship with Harden.
    • Quote: “James Harden is my friend… but at a certain point… it becomes a thing.” – Rich Paul [16:40]
    • Quote: “He’s become a little bit underrated defensively.” – Max Kellerman [17:08]
  • Both agree Pistons are the better team—Kade Cunningham is “by a lot” the best player in the series. They predict a quick finish unless Cleveland steals Game 3.
  • Max riffs on “must-win” game rhetoric and the hyperbole often used in playoff coverage.

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3. Eastern Conference: Knicks & Sixers Analysis

• [27:10-34:03]
  • Knicks lauded for playing the NBA’s best team basketball; Brunson and OG Anunoby praised for reliability and “winning plays.”
    • Quote: “OG… makes these weird plays – it’s like winning plays… he hits key threes, timely threes.” – Rich Paul [30:08]
  • Discussion on Mikal Bridges’ emergence and the cost of acquiring him.
  • Sixers competitive in Game 2—Tyrese Maxey’s quiet fourth quarter chalked up to defense, not character.
  • Long-form reflection on Joel Embiid’s career as the “biggest what-if in basketball history,” with recurring injuries preventing an all-time legacy.
    • Quote: “Embiid is the biggest what-if in basketball history… the most complete big ever.” – Max Kellerman [33:16]

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4. NFL Corner: New York Giants’ Quiet Offseason Moves

• [22:27-26:14]
  • Max, in classic “irrational Max” mode, excitedly details the Giants’ savvy defensive line signings and praises new coach John Harbaugh’s culture shift.
  • Rich agrees: experience and competency on the roster are key, and hints he may “become a Giants fan” in Tomlin’s absence.
    • Quote: “It’s not so much those guys are underrated, they’re experienced… that’s a smart thing to do.” – Rich Paul [26:15]

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5. March Madness Expansion

• [27:10-28:27]
  • Both hosts are comfortable with NCAA tournaments’ expansion to 76 teams. Rich says more opportunity is good for March Madness; Max wonders if low seeds will ever win.
  • “It’s just where the money’s at, expanding.” – Rich Paul [28:23]

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6. Hip Hop Interlude: Rick Ross vs. French Montana (Versus)

• [36:43-39:02]
  • Debates who’d win the Versus battle. Both agree Ross has too deep a catalog, but acknowledge French Montana’s single with Swae Lee is as big as any Ross hit.
    • Quote: “A Versus is different… but in the Versus Rick Ross got too many.” – Rich Paul [37:28]
  • Brief discussion of flavor vs. lyricism in hip-hop; praise for Rick Ross as both a lyricist and A&R.

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7. Vrabel-Russini Media Fallout

• [39:38-43:04]
  • Max voices strong opposition to the media coverage of the alleged Diana Russini/Mike Vrabel affair: says “journalistic integrity” is used as a pretense for salacious gossip.
    • Quote: “They’re using that as a bullshit excuse to be titillated by an affair. It’s so disgusting.” – Max Kellerman [40:23]
  • Rich takes a more detached approach: “I mind my business.”
  • Both compare this minor media conflict to actual betting conflicts in sports media which no one seems to care about.

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8. Personal Anecdotes & Parenting Stories

• [43:12-46:32]
  • Max and Rich swap stories of growing up, discipline, and family dynamics—ranging from childhood strategies to avoid punishment to “pulling the plug” as harsh discipline.
  • Entertaining reminiscence about parents, siblings, and Bronx family life.

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9. Audience Q&A (Boxing, Career Advice, NBA Culture)

• [48:15-57:15]

Boxing: The Future Face

• Max pegs Shakur Stevenson, David Benavidez, and Moses Atama as the future of boxing, referencing historical defensive greats.
  • Quote: “The guy who’s just going to keep winning is Shakur Stevenson — you can’t hit him!” – Max Kellerman [48:43]

Career: Networking vs. Knowledge

• Rich Paul breaks down “networking” and stresses the need for people who block and tackle for you—not just casual connections.
  • Quote: “If it don’t net any income, it’s not working. So I don’t necessarily…” [51:42]
• Both agree: real relationships and knowledge are both crucial.

NBA "What-Ifs": Derrick Rose vs. Penny Hardaway

• Both reflect deeply on these parallel careers derailed by injury. Rich highlights cultural impact; Max gives edge to Rose for peak achievement but says Penny was “the guy you wanted who wasn’t Michael Jordan.”
  • Quote: “Penny was the guy everybody would have wanted to play with.” – Rich Paul [55:05]

Audience Email: NBA Under-the-Radar “Stars” in Big Moments

• Listeners ask about players who starred in big games but never “made it big.” Max and Rich laugh about cryptic messages and incomplete questions; reference Randolph Childress, Napier, others.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Lakers’ Playoff Struggles:
  “[Lakers] were down. It was 97-92… then next thing you know, it’s 114-94.” – Rich Paul [07:52]
• On OKC’s team-building:
  “The nuance of putting a team together… buy-in, coachability, cohesiveness…” – Rich Paul [14:23]
• On James Harden:
  “He’s become a little bit underrated defensively.” – Max Kellerman [17:08]
• On must-win games:
  “The whole point of saying must-win is you’re being hyperbolic… Game 3 is, of course, a must-win for Cleveland.” – Max Kellerman [18:51]
• Knicks Praise:
  “OG… always there. Both ends of the floor. He’s a high IQ player… he hits timely threes.” – Rich Paul [30:08]
• On Embiid’s legacy:
  “Embiid is the biggest what-if in basketball history… He could have been the most complete big ever.” – Max Kellerman [33:16]
• On journalism & gossip:
  “They’re using that as a bullshit excuse to be titillated by an affair… shame on the media.” – Max Kellerman [40:23]
• On networking:
  “If it don’t net any income, it’s not working.” – Rich Paul [51:42]
• Rose vs. Penny:
  “Penny was the guy everybody would have wanted to play with.” – Rich Paul [55:05]

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Additional Highlights

• Fan Interaction: Listeners from Queens and Charlotte call in with questions about the future of boxing and defining career “what-ifs.”
• Cultural Commentary: Max and Rich compare hip hop stardom to sports punditry, accentuating the crossover of flair, talent, and professionalism.
• Parenting Wisdom: Both recall lessons and discipline from their parents, with characteristic humor and warmth.
• Playful Banter: Max jokes about growing up in NYC, learning to drive, and childhood basketball tales; Rich riffs on parenting and adulthood.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is quintessential “Game Over”—a mix of hard-hitting sports analysis, generational stories, irreverent banter, cultural references, and thoughtful audience interaction. Max and Rich expertly bridge NBA deep-dives with broader life and cultural commentary, making the show accessible, insightful, and consistently entertaining—especially for listeners who appreciate both sports and the personalities that shape them.

Transcript

[Max Kellerman]

This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Look, I love what I do. I highly recommend it. If you can get into this business, it beats working for a living. You watch sports, you talk about them, you debate about them, you give everyone your opinion about them. Right? You're gonna do that anyway, but you get paid for it. It's a good deal. People driven by passion are good for business. It's finding them that's the problem. Luckily, ZipRecruiter can help with that. Try it [e-mail] gameover ZipRecruiter is consistently on it. They have powerful matching tech, and they're frequently rated the number one hiring site based on G2 Plus. They added a new feature that pushes qualified candidates who are most interested in your job to the top of your list. Find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for [e-mail] gameover that's ziprecruiter.com gameover meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Rich, it was a big day in my house today.

[Rich Paul]

Really? What happened?

[Max Kellerman]

My daughter drove on the highway for

[Rich Paul]

the first time on the freeway in her new Mercedes.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no, not a new Mercedes.

[Rich Paul]

What? No, it wasn't a horse and carriage.

[Max Kellerman]

No, yeah, it was the horse.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, it was a BMW.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it is. Yeah, but, like, from 2017.

[Rich Paul]

I don't need your but, like, it's a BMW.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no. The reason I say that is because she told me when we were looking, she was like, I don't want to have to make an excuse when I got out of my car.

[Rich Paul]

About what?

[Max Kellerman]

Like, she'd feel embarrassed if it was, like a fancy car. You know, she's a kid.

[Rich Paul]

My daughter was like that with a birthday gift one time. She got a bunch of, like, I guess it was luxury stuff. She never wore it. She wouldn't wear it to school because

[Max Kellerman]

she felt that's good. Good kid?

[Rich Paul]

No, great kid.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

My kids aren't materialistic, but. Yeah, that's actually mean you done something right.

[Max Kellerman]

Max, has your son driven at all yet?

[Rich Paul]

Richie don't drive. He likes to be driven.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you know what I would have done at that age to even just have a car?

[Rich Paul]

The thing about it is, I don't understand. We didn't have Uber, though. These kids have Uber. They don't. You know, I do think my younger son would want to he's gonna drive for sure. Yeah, but my, but my, my, my oldest son, he don't, he's not in a rush to get his license.

[Max Kellerman]

He went to too much.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but none of these kids are, you know, they, they can get picked up and dropped off. I had to wait, I used to have to wait on my dad. Used to pay anybody outside to take me anywhere.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

I used to go to my basketball games. I, the game start at 10 in the morning, we get on the road at 9:30. I don't get to the game till 10:40. It's halftime. It used to be the worst thing ever. And I didn't want my dad to take me because he drive 15 miles an hour on the take. Us two days to get there.

[Max Kellerman]

So no one in New York had a car period, where like someone had a car. It was like, what you doing with the car?

[Rich Paul]

New York, everyone's on train drive that well that was born in Manhattan and didn't have to take a car. I don't, I don't like to get

[Max Kellerman]

in the car with, with people who grew up in New York.

[Rich Paul]

Not in New York. Yeah, in Manhattan.

[Max Kellerman]

Uh huh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Because they never had to drive.

[Max Kellerman]

Not growing up. No way.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I'll drive with somebody from Brooklyn, the Bronx, Harlem, Queens. But if you grew up in Manhattan.

[Max Kellerman]

Manhattan. But I'm saying uptown.

[Rich Paul]

Uptown, yeah. Yes, I prefer not.

[Max Kellerman]

North of 2 5th. You're okay.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I prefer not to. Yeah, yeah. Because they don't know how to drive.

[Max Kellerman]

It's true.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Never driven before.

[Max Kellerman]

But the difference is like in, in New York, if someone's driving you crazy on this, on the road, it's because they're being an asshole. Right? Like that's what they're doing in L. A, it's because they're not paying attention, they're on their phone, they got, you

[Rich Paul]

know, LA has the worst.

[Max Kellerman]

Before they got in the car, it drives me crazy.

[Rich Paul]

I used to think they had the worst traffic. I'm not so sure what has worse, Atlanta's up there with LA traffic. Miami's traffic is bad. It was terrible.

[Max Kellerman]

But this is one thing I'd like to say to drivers in la when, when the light turns red. Is that a suggestion? No, no, that's a command. You must stop right when the light turns green. Why don't you go? You must go. It's not a suggestion. But in LA, the light turns green, you're like 3 Mississippi, 4 Mississippi.

[Rich Paul]

No, they're on the phone, that's the problem.

[Max Kellerman]

And then if you lay on your horn, you're the bad guy.

[Rich Paul]

You are the bad guy. You should never do that. The horn's not for that.

[Max Kellerman]

What is the horn for? Well, it's not. They should take.

[Rich Paul]

I used to have my reasons for what the horn was for. It's just like. It depends on what type of horn you got. My horn was like. It was like a really, like a good call.

[Max Kellerman]

Are you ready to do the show?

[Rich Paul]

No, not really, but no, I am.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. All right, let's game [e-mail] over with

[Max Kellerman]

Max Kellerman and Rich Paul, by the way. 424. Okay, let me see if you remember the number 4, 24 for the voicemails.

[Rich Paul]

240-8341.

[Max Kellerman]

What?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

If you want to win some money, numbers play. I play 80. I've been playing 83. 41.

[Max Kellerman]

You may have ran numbers in your youth. I don't know. Because that was too. That came out like that because I've

[Rich Paul]

been playing it 10 and 10.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

83, 41.

[Max Kellerman]

424-240.

[Rich Paul]

$10 straight. $10 box. If you really want to win some money, I'm just telling you, thank me later.

[Max Kellerman]

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[Rich Paul]

What we got, Max? What are you complaining about now?

[Max Kellerman]

Lakers, Thunder. Rich, you almost. What'd they lose by you predicted 21. They were down 17 with maybe two minutes left in the fourth.

[Rich Paul]

What was the final score?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, what was the final score?

[Rich Paul]

Let's check it. I don't like you calling me out like that, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm giving you. I'm giving you.

[Rich Paul]

Giving you props. 20. No, it wasn't 20. Sorry.

[Max Kellerman]

Giving you props.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, 18.

[Max Kellerman]

Pretty close. Pretty good.

[Rich Paul]

I just felt like it was going to be tough on the road. Very tough on the road. But, but, but I can't. The two scores don't tell the games. The two games the Lakers were in, both games. It's just when you're in the playoffs, remember I talked to you about timely shots? Sure. Like if timely shots was in a video game, it'd be worth like 10 lives. Making timely shots, you get the little power thing.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

But making timely shots in the playoffs, especially against a team that you are undermanned against, it's just. You have to play perfect basketball. It's not. Their effort was 18 points less than the Thunder. That's not the case. They were down. It was 97, 92. And then next thing you know, it's 114 to 94.

[Max Kellerman]

And the thing about this series so far, and it's predictable, the Lakers are playing just about as well as they can in the sense that like JJ is doing a great job scheming defensively to stop sga. Not going to let SGA beat him. But that's the thing about the Thunder is that, you know, SGA is on the bench, he's in foul trouble. No, no. Jalen Williams. And so. But they can just plug somebody in.

[Rich Paul]

Jared McCain comes in who they get

[Max Kellerman]

from Philly for nothing. You plug them in and their plus minus is better than when SGA is in the game.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. And that's what's in Wallace. Makes sense. What did I say was going to be a thing that would be very difficult for the Lakers to overcome on the defensive end. Athleticism and what else? The ball pressure.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah. Defensively, you mean? Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. But they're not. It's not like they're going to the game saying we're better than the Lakers. We're just going to play laissez fair basketball. They are pressuring the ball. They're grabbing, they're holding, they're bumping. They're making it physical.

[Max Kellerman]

They're making a physical back. Austin Reeves threw SGA down and.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, no, look, they, they, they're contesting every shot. But at the end of the day, when you have that depth, when you have that athleticism, when you have that speed and quickness, I mean, A.J. mitchell, how many times you gonna let the guys. I mean, the guy comes into the game, he starts the game right. He goes on like a. I think he scored like six or eight straight. He. If it's not AJ Mitchell, it's gonna be Isaiah Joe. If it's not Isaiah Joe, it's gonna be Jerick McCain.

[Max Kellerman]

There's almost a little bit of a sad part, like the Lakers are putting in so much effort to just keep it close. And then as the game goes on, oh, it's a five point game, it's a three possession game. It's. And then you blink and it's 50.

[Rich Paul]

But I, I appreciate the effort, though. Seriously.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

No one expects him to win this series.

[Max Kellerman]

Can they get one in la? Can the Lakers win a game in la?

[Rich Paul]

I think they can.

[Max Kellerman]

So, gentlemen, sweep in this series.

[Rich Paul]

I think they can. I think you got to take it one game at a time.

[Max Kellerman]

But they can't get in this series.

[Rich Paul]

I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so. And again, maybe we do. Maybe he surprises, but I don't think so.

[Max Kellerman]

But even if you do see Luka, you can't integrate a piece that big. Changes the whole dynamic of the team. Do it on the fly against the best or second best. One of the.

[Rich Paul]

Coming back from a soft tissue injury. It's tough to come back from a soft tissue injury against those guys hounding you.

[Max Kellerman]

But also, I wouldn't want that. Everybody affects LeBron. When Austin Reeves came back, it affected Canard. It affected Marcus Smart. If Luka affects everybody else.

[Rich Paul]

But you need that. You need the depth.

[Max Kellerman]

It's not going to hurt you to have Luka Doncic.

[Rich Paul]

No, you need the depth. And I thought Austin was better tonight. Much better. Effort. Yeah. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, sometimes effort's always good.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, effort's always good. But sometimes you have to shoot yourself out of slumps. If there is one that you're in, it's fine. It's just those, just those, those play like tonight, Chet, they were down by two. Chet Holmgren, who, who you love, he's faced up as a guard and shoots a three.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Paul]

Like, it's just. What are you going to do?

[Max Kellerman]

It's not. This is what happened last year with the Thunder when Chet came back, it's like, by the way, they got like a poor man's Wemby back. They just. The best team in the league, just got a version of Wemby back by when check just got healthy last year.

[Rich Paul]

Sam Presti deserves this opportunity because let me tell you why he's paid his dues. I mean, he had an unbelievable team that he assembled back when they had Durant and Harden and Westbrook. That was a great team. He's not, by the way, still, when you're playing a LeBron James team as undermanned as they are, you're still not like, just relaxed.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Because you know this guy is still dangerous even at 41. The other thing Sam did was Very underrated. You don't know this guy. He's sitting on the bench. His name is Chip England. Chip is there as the best shooting. He has the best shooting. San Antonio. Where else? You think he came from Mars? He came from San Antonio, Max. The best shooting coach. You know why? Kawhi. You ever seen Kawhi shoot before and after he came to San Antonio, it's a totally different shot. Look at Casen Wallace. Look at A.J. look at. Look at Shay. They. In order to pry Chip from San Antonio, there had to. There was a real premium pay for him to come.

[Max Kellerman]

It's amazing that they'll throw away $8 million on a veteran who's not even gonna help them that much. Okay, it didn't work out. But a great shooting coach or a guy who's making a fraction of that, just. Just put a zero at the end.

[Rich Paul]

But think about. Think about how.

[Max Kellerman]

Doesn't count against the cap.

[Rich Paul]

Think about how Chip has to view Sam Presti and the OKC organization to leave San Antonio.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm glad you brought up prestige. So I wanted to talk about him. That's what I think of. That's who I think of when I see Jared McCain, like the way Jerry McCain played tonight. I think of Presti because what you said is exactly right.

[Rich Paul]

He.

[Max Kellerman]

Presti, could have easily been known. Like on his tombstone, it could have said, put together the best young talent ever. They didn't win a parenthesis. They didn't win a championship. Right. When you look back at that Thunder team with KD and Westbrook and Harden and Ibaka, that's like one of the greatest collections of. In the history of the game. They're in their early 20s. They could unleash a reign of terror on the league that would last, you know, 10, 12, 15 years. It didn't happen that way. They never got over the top. And Presti, who was the architect of that team, that could have easily been known. Like, that's what he was known for. It could have been. That was it. But he must have learned from that because he did a great job, but it wasn't quite enough. Refined what he was doing. Do it again, and then 10 years later, it's better than it was back then.

[Rich Paul]

You know what I think he learned most from that? Less about talent and more about how to mesh together. Characters, talent plus characters. Because obviously, you know, these things have. They matter a lot.

[Max Kellerman]

The nuance of putting a team together.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. A team that's clicking on all cylinders. Skill set, talent, effort, willingness to win, want, buy in coachability, cohesiveness, all those things that it takes to be a championship organization.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Is what you need now.

[Max Kellerman]

It's almost like when you watch this Thunder team and McCain today and they look, they'll cut to Presti sitting and watching. It's almost like he's showing off. Like the team is so good. I'm not saying he is. I'm saying it's showing off. It's an embarrassment. The team is an embarrassment of riches.

[Rich Paul]

Well, guess what? It would be an embarrassment of riches. He could get the number one pick this year. Then what would you say, smarty pants?

[Max Kellerman]

That's the most hilarious thing that nothing like that's happened in the league since Jerry west pulled the deal and wound up James Worthy. Like when the Lakers somehow had Magic and Kareem and won the chip and then got James Worthy.

[Rich Paul]

There's a chance they could.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's possible. I'm just like a 4% or something.

[Rich Paul]

You know who was underrated on that? That Thunder run that we don't even talk about this guy. First of all, I think they. I think they drafted Jeff Green too. I think he was a part of that. But also there was a guy that

[Max Kellerman]

got hurt, Jeff Green, who by the way, in college it was not. I mean, you like KD because he's taller, but it was not obvious that Jeff, like Jeff Green could have been the best player in that clear at that point.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, Eric Maynard. Forget about him. He just got hurt. But he hasn't.

[Max Kellerman]

Maynard's like the number one player in high school or whatever.

[Rich Paul]

He hasn't. Sam don't really miss in the draft. He doesn't. I mean, it may not work out, but he don't really, really miss like that.

[Max Kellerman]

So meantime, the Pistons beat your calves. Not my Cavs. Let me just say that for you, I'm from Cleveland.

[Rich Paul]

Max, what you want me to do

[Max Kellerman]

based off my birth certificate, why would they trade? I'm not sure if you're aware of this. Clutch Sports is an agency has a client point guard, used to play in Cleveland, now plays in LA for the Clippers. You aware of this play?

[Rich Paul]

I'm very much aware.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. He was traded. He's like 25 years old. How old is he?

[Rich Paul]

26.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, he was traded for a 37 year old guy who's never played well in the playoffs. Let me rephrase. Who's never at least maintained his regular season level in the playoffs.

[Rich Paul]

Max, I want to bring something to your attention.

[Max Kellerman]

Go ahead.

[Rich Paul]

James Harden is my friend.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Any interaction I've ever had with Harden has been good. He's very likable guy. I don't. It's not like I take joy in saying this, but at a certain point. So he's three from 13. He's over four from three. He's not playing defense. Well, at least there are glaring examples that are going around, you know, Twitter and you know, of James Harden not playing defense on certain possessions. He's become a little bit underrated defensively.

[Rich Paul]

Why do you think it's been the struggle for the team? Not just him, for the team. They're down 02. You would think they would split one.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, Mobley's. Mobley's development has stagnated and maybe even gone back a little quarter step. James Harden has just. He's. I think it becomes a thing at a certain point. A guy is kind of tagged with this, or at least they hang this tag on him like he's not doing well under pressure because he hasn't. It's not that it gets hung on him, it's that he hangs it on himself and then it becomes a thing.

[Rich Paul]

Do the Cavs tie it up?

[Max Kellerman]

No.

[Rich Paul]

You don't think so? No. You think. You think the Pistons go in and get both in Cleveland?

[Max Kellerman]

I think they get one.

[Rich Paul]

Really?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I think they'll win one in Cleveland and they'll close it out in five or six games. Maybe the Cavs can go back to Detroit and get one. But they'll close it out. I mean, Cleveland is. You were right originally and you weren't the only one. Like people knew. But I was maybe thinking maybe they could do it anyway. They need another playmaker ball handler. But not against Cleveland. They don't. Against maybe against.

[Rich Paul]

You mean Detroit.

[Max Kellerman]

Detroit does. But against Cleveland, it's not going to matter.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I think they're the best player in the series, but by a lot. Kade is much better than anyone on

[Rich Paul]

the K. Was really good tonight. They played him tough all year. I do think. Obviously, I'm stating the obvious. This is one of your moves. Cleveland has to win game three.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait, I don't say that.

[Rich Paul]

No, you state the obvious.

[Max Kellerman]

I state the obvious all the time.

[Rich Paul]

What do you mean, the obvious? Cleveland has to win game three. It's just that simple. Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I love when people are like, you can't call it a must win game because technically it's not a must. But the whole point in saying must win is you're being hyperbolic. You're saying, yes, it's not literal. So game three Is, of course, a must win game for Cleveland.

[Rich Paul]

Of course it's a must win game.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. I don't know what to say about James Harden. I hope he's.

[Rich Paul]

You said enough.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's move on, man. I would hate to think that he can't come up with a single post season run. He'll play that at least he can hang his hat on and people can say. And I could even bring up, you know, 10 years from 20 years from now. He did have that one run where, you know, look, when I was saying Steph underachieved in the. In the finals, I said it because it was true. Oh, but they sent double teams his way. What do you think? They weren't doubling Michael Jordan. They doubled all the greatest players. Of course they did. Larry Bird, everyone got doubled and a lot of defensive attention when they were in the finals. But some guys maintained their level. Some guys even got better. Steph wasn't one of those guys. But I was very happy in 22 because he did it. He was even starting before that when they lost to Kawhi because of KD's injury. But in that series, Steph, to me, started turning the corner and hitting big shots in the finals. I started watching and thinking, he's maybe the best player on either team in the finals. Even though his team wound up losing, he's getting there. And in 2022, he was easily the best player either team in the finals. The. And I feel good being able to say that I can't point to a single playoff run where I could say that about Harden.

[Rich Paul]

Max, enough. Okay. Let me ask you a question. Did you have a friend named Felix? Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Why do you ask?

[Rich Paul]

Doing my research on you. Yeah. You guys are really close.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's my dude since, you know, best friend since we're 12 years old.

[Rich Paul]

Oh. Are you wondering how I know that?

[Max Kellerman]

How do you know that?

[Rich Paul]

I'm not telling you. Did Felix used to say, like, it was. He was like, real witty, and he used to tell somebody like, something about, you have a. Something lit, but it's just not. Not fat yet because I haven't punched you in it yet. Was he kind of like a bully, or would you say something like that?

[Max Kellerman]

No, Neither one of us.

[Rich Paul]

Really?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I mean, if we'd snap on each other, but it would be funny. I don't know. What.

[Rich Paul]

No, but you guys used to play ball, and the other guys used to have the court, and you guys used to throw the ball and say, no, we. We have the. Courtney should be like, A little back and forth about that.

[Max Kellerman]

Only thing I could think you might be talking about is when, like, you know, you're in this. My school went from seven to 12.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

So the eighth graders, seventh or eighth graders. Try to get on the court. That's what happened to 11th graders were playing. You weren't getting on the court.

[Rich Paul]

You were actually a senior.

[Max Kellerman]

Me?

[Rich Paul]

Yes. No, no.

[Max Kellerman]

When I was. I'm saying when we were little, we couldn't get the court. Just because they're not gonna let you out.

[Rich Paul]

No, but in this case, they were little and you were like a single. No, you guys chased them. Oh, telling you this kind of story was told to me. No, I've been doing some research, but it's cool. I just want to know you have Felix. What's your five minute max?

[Max Kellerman]

I'm gonna do. This is called irrational Max. Jacoby's like, you got to call it irrational.

[Rich Paul]

Always irrational.

[Max Kellerman]

We never get. We haven't talked to NFL in a long time. I got the bug.

[Rich Paul]

No, it should be 5 minute max brought to you by Delta.

[Max Kellerman]

I love it. Yeah, because you know Delta, you take a Delta flight, feels like five minutes later, you're there.

[Rich Paul]

That is true.

[Max Kellerman]

There you go.

[Rich Paul]

And now you get Shake Shack on there.

[Max Kellerman]

So really, when I follow sport, like, of course, like, we're interested in all. Lots of different sports and lots of different stories. But the thing, the thing I really care about are my teams, right? Like the Yankees, the Giants, you know, Come on.

[Rich Paul]

So the Knicks. So, yes, you care about the Knicks.

[Max Kellerman]

You can't hurt me anymore, Rich. Knicks can't hurt me anymore.

[Rich Paul]

The Knicks has a great chance of winning this year. They can win it all.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but remember what Cam said.

[Rich Paul]

I know what Cam said.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Not falling for the banana in the tailpipe. Then he paused himself. But the Giants, Rich, what the Giants just did, it's such an under the radar move.

[Rich Paul]

Which one?

[Max Kellerman]

They signed Shelby Harris and then they signed DJ Reader. These are veteran, slightly above average, maybe defensive tackles. Right. They're not going to sack the quarterback, but they're good run stoppers. Not amazing run stoppers, but like at least league average or a little bit above. And by the way, in every sport, if you can play at a league average level for your position, that has a lot of value. Especially because they're going to be stars at other positions. The real problem on most teams in most sports is not that they don't have a star, it's that there are glaring holes, one or two, where it's like that guy is really underperforming the league. Right. There are too many guys at his position who are better than him. So it's a structural disadvantage in your team. But the Giants were awful against the run last year and they lose Dexter Lawrence. Right. They trade him for the 10th pick and they got.

[Rich Paul]

I'm so mad about that.

[Max Kellerman]

But they got a really good, you know, offensive lineman and, and, but these, but Reader and, and Harris are solid veteran defensive tackles. And the Giants have so much pressure off the edges. They got Arville by linebacker and defensive end. Yeah. Abdul Carter, Arvell Reese. They got Thibodeau. They got, they got guys who can come in and get you athletic linebackers, no question in the secondary. But like they have, they sign, they got guys in the play, inside linebacker and all they really need is the run stoppers in the middle. And the other thing about the D tackle position. No, they're not Dexter Lawrence. They're not going to, they're not going to like get to the quarterback. But all you really need is a little push. You just need to, to get into the pocket a little bit. Right. To make it difficult and make it really good for your edge rushers. The Giants just did that. It's such an under the radar move because when you look at this team now, I think Jackson Dart is the most among the most underrated players in the NFL. Like, I don't think people understand what he's about to do. He has. Maybe there are.

[Rich Paul]

Well, hopefully he's about to protect himself.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, he's got a slide. He's got a slide.

[Rich Paul]

Please.

[Max Kellerman]

But he's a star. And Malik Neighbors is coming back and he's an elite wideout, top five in the league, I think if he's healthy, five or six. And they get Malachi Fields in the draft, who's a big target, and they have a bruising fullback now and a bruising running back in Scatterboo. And everywhere you look you have a big, strong, physical, competent guy, if not a star. And it all happens. They just get their hands on John Harbaugh and in one off season, everywhere you look there's competence, you know. So as a Giants fan, I'm psyched about it.

[Rich Paul]

I can tell.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

But that's what happens when you spend the money on somebody that's coming with experience. They bring in culture, they bring in know how they bring in a great eye that evaluates talent.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

It's not so much as those guys are underrated. You know what they are, they're experienced. So they put Two guys on the defensive line in between their somewhat inexperienced, young, very high level, high talented players, which is just a smart thing to do. I have. Listen, I. I might become a Giants fan.

[Max Kellerman]

There you go.

[Rich Paul]

I have full trust in Harbaugh. In Harbaugh. I got Mike Tomlins out the league now. I might become a Giants fan. I might.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. When. I mean, it was. It's amazing that they got rid of Harbaugh and Tomlin in the same off season.

[Rich Paul]

It's unbelievable.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, they think, well, we're not even better than we. We should be better. Okay.

[Rich Paul]

Just like I said about LeBron, Harbaugh, Tomlin, when you have those guys in your organization, you just got to keep. I don't care what they become.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Kick them upstairs if you have to.

[Rich Paul]

Whatever you want.

[Max Kellerman]

Give them a little piece of the team if you have to.

[Rich Paul]

Whatever. You have to.

[Max Kellerman]

Keep them in the building.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. You have to keep those guys in the building.

[Max Kellerman]

Men's and women's NCAA basketball tournaments, Rich, are expanding to 75 teams. 76 teams are 76. Of course. Not gonna be an odd number. Is it too much? I mean, it's inevitable. It was gonna expand eventually, but I don't know. I've been. You know, I grew up with. I'm used to.

[Rich Paul]

I'll say this. I know.

[Max Kellerman]

Then it became kind of 68, but it's 64.

[Rich Paul]

No, it's not too much.

[Max Kellerman]

76 is okay.

[Rich Paul]

76 is fine.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's a lot of teams.

[Rich Paul]

Hey, March Madness. One thing about March Madness is the best time of the year.

[Max Kellerman]

So I think, especially those first couple

[Rich Paul]

days now, how they spread the opportunity with the added 12 teams is what yet remains to be seen. But, no, I don't think it's too much.

[Max Kellerman]

Is any seed, like, below 64 ever going to win a national title? Then the question becomes, why are they in the tournament? If the answer is no, it's the questions. Why are they in the tournament?

[Rich Paul]

Well, let me ask you this question. Would you have went from 64 to 52? No. Right. So.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Yeah. You're never going to.

[Rich Paul]

You're never going to go down.

[Max Kellerman]

You're always going to expand, right? Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. That's where the money's at, expanding.

[Max Kellerman]

You were right about the Sixers, by the way. They played much better.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

They were much more competitive in the second game. Maxi did not have a great fourth quarter, which surprised me.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but he'll bounce back. I'm not. I don't worry about Max.

[Max Kellerman]

He's a great player and a Clutch player. And a clutch player. But I was. I was surprised. What, do you think that's fatigue?

[Rich Paul]

No, I just think sometimes. Look, they were doubling them. They were bringing two on the ball. You get, you know, so sometimes, like, there's quick shots in the offense, sometimes you take trips down the floor, you don't even get the ball back. So I think it's. It's much less about the stats of it and more about the flow of the game. Because one could argue in game seven against Boston, three possessions in the fourth quarter down the floor, he didn't. He didn't have the ball. They missed three straight shots. It just so happened that Boston also missed three straight shots and then he scored two really big buckets in a row. So it's just the Florida game, but I don't worry about that.

[Max Kellerman]

Knicks are playing the best team. The best team ball in the NBA right now.

[Rich Paul]

I think they are. Listen, the Knicks are playing strong, but they all, you know, going into Philly, it's not going to be easy.

[Max Kellerman]

Bridges, a lot of the key is like, Brunson always plays well. Brunson you can rely on.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. You can rely on him.

[Max Kellerman]

Cat's been more aggressive. OG is always good, too. Like, I love OG I think he's like.

[Rich Paul]

His effort's always there.

[Max Kellerman]

His effort's always there both ends of the floor. He's a high IQ player. He can shoot, he can defend multiple positions.

[Rich Paul]

The thing about OG he does. He makes these weird plays that it's like winning plays. It's like a hand on a loose ball, you know, a block in a key possession. And you know what he also does? He hits key threes. No timely threes.

[Max Kellerman]

He's the guy I want to see shooting that ball.

[Rich Paul]

He does.

[Max Kellerman]

He hits timey threes, but those guys. Yeah. Mikhail Bridges has been playing very well, and that's the whole thing. When you give up those five, first you're overpaying, of course, but what you're getting back. And I always thought Bridges is actually a good playoff performer. Hadn't been in these playoffs. He is right now.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Who wins games three? Who win games three? Game three.

[Max Kellerman]

The Sixers will get one in Philly. Sixers will get one back at the Garden.

[Rich Paul]

If the Sixers win games, it's going

[Max Kellerman]

to be Knicks and six.

[Rich Paul]

Let me ask you, if the Sixers win game three.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Does the series go back to New York tied?

[Max Kellerman]

No. New York's going to win one in Philly. They're just playing.

[Rich Paul]

Is this the heart of you saying this.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no, no, no, no. By the way, if the Knicks lost, I'd be. I would think it's hilarious, actually, but because it's, you know, same thing all.

[Rich Paul]

But what about if Joel plays to Joel?

[Max Kellerman]

This is what I've been saying all year. Just because there's not an acute injury, they don't. People don't think. Think of Embiid like Grant Hill or Derrick Rose or one of these what ifs. Joel, Embiid is the biggest what if in basketball history. The only thing close would be Bill Walton. But Bill Walton actually won a championship. MVP in a championship. Embiid never. And by the way, the Kawhi shot, that goes straight up and then in. If that goes straight up but it doesn't go in, Sixers might win the championship that year. I mean, if KD winds up getting

[Rich Paul]

it, if it still happens the way it happens. Maybe.

[Max Kellerman]

So maybe you don't.

[Rich Paul]

That was a really good team.

[Max Kellerman]

But what ifs like, who never got a chip because they got. Embiid was the total package as a center.

[Rich Paul]

You know, I was sitting right there at that game.

[Max Kellerman]

But he's. But he's doomed because he can't stay healthy. Which got me to mind the game

[Rich Paul]

where Kawhi made that. I'm sitting right there. The game that Kawhi made the shot.

[Max Kellerman]

Kawhi's year.

[Rich Paul]

No, it was. It was. It really was.

[Max Kellerman]

But I feel. I mean, like, I. I feel bad for Embiid, but. And then.

[Rich Paul]

But that's not a knock to Embiid. What you're saying. You're saying that in terms of paying homage to his talent, that as good as he's been mvp, he's still the biggest.

[Max Kellerman]

Only because, like, when you think about. He is big.

[Rich Paul]

Big.

[Max Kellerman]

He's big and strong enough that he can go down low with bigs from other eras. Like, you think about, is this guy going to be too big for Embiid?

[Rich Paul]

He could have played in any.

[Max Kellerman]

He could have played in any play with his back to the basket. He has footwork. He can shoot, he can defend. He. He likes it when there's a one on one. He can dribble. He likes it when there's a one on one matchup with another big. He gets competitive. He wants to dominate them. He can block shots. He can do all like Embiid could do. He could hit free throws better than a guy like Shaq or Tim Duncan or someone like that. Yeah, he should have been the most. Even if it wouldn't, he would have been the greatest. Center role ever. He could have been the most complete big ever.

[Rich Paul]

He would have been. He definitely would have probably been in the top five.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

All time since.

[Max Kellerman]

But is there any other center that you could say was that well rounded, including size and everything?

[Rich Paul]

But no, I don't think so.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. I don't think so either. And it's just not going to happen. And by the way, it's, it's all different things. It's, it's Bell's palsy. It's, it's, it's his back, it's his knee, it's his, you know, it's every, every year, every month to month. It's like it's not just the same thing. It's different things. The dude is just snake bit.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I don't know. I, I feel bad about it. I like Joel. But you're right. It's been a tough, tough road for him.

[Max Kellerman]

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[Rich Paul]

Max. Yeah, Mr. Hip Hop.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

What's up versus tonight? Yeah, Rick Ross.

[Max Kellerman]

We're missing it.

[Rich Paul]

Well, no, you're missing it. I watched some of it. Rick Ross versus French Montana.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Who do you like?

[Rich Paul]

Who do I like?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah,

[Rich Paul]

obviously. I mean, I like French Montana, but. And aversus. It's Rick Ross.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, agreed.

[Rich Paul]

But don't sleep on. See, a versus is different. A versus is like 20 songs. I think they get 20 songs. But French Montana has one record that's bigger than any record that Rick Ross has, including every damn hustling. Yeah, because that's a big, big record.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, that's true.

[Rich Paul]

That record that Swae Lee gave French Montana is a huge, huge record. So. But in the Versus, Rick Ross got too many.

[Max Kellerman]

Rick Ross, one of my favorites.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, my mind, too. He just has too many records. Yeah, Vibe. He set the vibe.

[Max Kellerman]

And, like, there are MCs, by the way. This game is really no difference. It's.

[Rich Paul]

What game? Like this show.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

Game over.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, game over. But the media game. Oh, the media is a lot like, in the sense that it's just who has the flyest spit. Really? Really? That's what it is.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that's.

[Max Kellerman]

That's really what it is. And so. But. But when you think of MCs, just like when you think of different pundits or, you know, it's. There's the ones with flavor. Right. That's really what's driving it. And then there's the lyricists.

[Rich Paul]

Right, Right.

[Max Kellerman]

Rick Ross is both.

[Rich Paul]

Rick Ross is. He's everything in the Ensign. Yeah, he is. He. And he has great penmanship. He. The most underrated thing About Rick Ross is his ear as an A. And Rick Ross is an A and R that can rap. He has an ear.

[Max Kellerman]

That's such an advantage.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, my God. What?

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, so is Jay, basically.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, yes. You don't count guys like Kanye because he could actually make the beat. Know what you should be saying? Know what the hook should sound like?

[Max Kellerman]

Timbaland's the same thing, and he can rap on it. Timbaland's the same thing.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Pharrell's the same thing. Yeah, Pharrell's the same thing. So it's.

[Max Kellerman]

But yeah, now we're into producers and you're talking about rappers.

[Rich Paul]

I'm talking about rappers. But those guys can still rap. But. But. But again, It may not.

[Max Kellerman]

You. Do you think it. You think it's. You think it's lopsided?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Is nice French Montana. French Montana has.

[Max Kellerman]

He does for sure.

[Rich Paul]

And he also has a good ear.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

French has a good ear. He know how to make that, you know? And. And Dean loves Max B. So I have to listen to Max B when I ride with Dean. I rock with Max B, too.

[Max Kellerman]

But say something else. I gotta say something else about a topic that's been on the news and we haven't touched on it. The Diana Rossini, Mike Vrabel thing, that's called.

[Rich Paul]

I know it. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

So this does not sit well with me, because.

[Rich Paul]

Why?

[Max Kellerman]

All right, so what does it. So they get caught.

[Rich Paul]

What doesn't sit well with me?

[Max Kellerman]

I'll tell you exactly what it is. The reason it's considered legitimate, a legitimate target for the media is because the claim is that they're in a conflicted position that Diana covers the NFL. And therefore, if she's having an extra personal relationship with someone she's covering and it's not disclosed, then there can be bias. Okay, so she covers 32 teams. Really? And one of those 32 teams she might be biased toward. Let's just say. Let's say for sure it's an ethical violation to not disclose it on some level. So 3% 1 over 32. The 3% of the team she covers. There's some kind of bias that might show up. Who knows how, but whatever. Okay. I'm willing to say, okay, that's true. That's legitimate. But that's not why people are covering the story. They're using that as a bullshit excuse to be titillated by an affair. Right. And it's so disgusting to me because. Especially the latest. Like, I don't. It comes across my reels and I've worked with Diana Rossini, right? And she's, you know, and I haven't worked with Mike Vrabel, but it's on my reel, so I can't avoid it. And it's like, oh, there are pictures. And the press is trying to create a timeline where when might they have been cheating. So without regard to how this affects their spouses, their children, they're like putting these families through hell under the guise of. Of journalistic integrity and ethics, where, in fact, that is just an excuse to put out salacious stuff. And like, shame on the media for covering it the way they are. That's what I have to say about it.

[Rich Paul]

You know me, Max. I mind my business, man. You know?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, like, mind your business.

[Rich Paul]

I get it. But I mind my business.

[Max Kellerman]

It is like, by the way, for the record, is it unethical in a strict sense or even maybe in a practical sense? Sure. But actually, in a practical sense, how could it really affect coverage and, like, more than people who comment on sports betting, on games? Probably less than that, in fact. And no one cares about that, by the way, Rich, I don't bet games really, because I want to avoid the appearance even of a conflict.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

But people do it all the time in this business. People do it all the time. That's no more conflicted than what just

[Rich Paul]

happened when I was young. My dad and my mother, you know your dad and your mom have different approaches on things, right? You may, but in this case, they had one rule that was exactly the same rule from both of them. Stay out of grown folks business.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

And I listen and I followed that from that point on.

[Max Kellerman]

Did you have strategies with my mother and father? I had strategies like I wanted. If I was in trouble, I wanted my father to punish me and my mother to hit me because my father would never stick to a punishment, and my mother, it wasn't so. But if my mother punished me, who would never forget who would enforce it? And my dad hit me where if he got to that point, he was getting his money's worth. It was the worst.

[Rich Paul]

My dad would never hit me.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Ever. That wasn't my dad's thing. He had something worse, which I rather got hit. My mother would also never hit me unless my brother did something for both of us to get hit. And that's normally what would happen, the

[Max Kellerman]

reach back in the car.

[Rich Paul]

My brother. My brother Mo would do something to where we. Why am I getting in trouble for what he did? This is like a double impact, right?

[Max Kellerman]

I get it. Yeah. You kind of look alike. You're going to get both. Get it? Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Listen. When? I don't even want to tell you.

[Max Kellerman]

My youngest brother, Jack, when he was, like, just learning to talk. Of course, you know he has three older brothers. So you have, like, a little baby that's learning to talk. What are you gonna do? Are you gonna teach him curses? First thing, right?

[Rich Paul]

That was wrong, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

But hold on. But I'm only, like, probably 7 or 8 years old. He crawls into the other room, starts cursing at my mom. She comes in, starts just swinging on. And I'm thinking to myself, I couldn't figure out. I'm like, she's a genius. How did she know it was me, right? I'm thinking, how did she figure that out? Why me?

[Rich Paul]

My dad would do something that was worse than any whooping I can ever get.

[Max Kellerman]

What was it?

[Rich Paul]

He would pull the plug. Meaning if he told you. If it got to the point to where my dad said, he's pulling the plug, and he actually pulled it, right? Just pull the plug out of one of these sockets, this whole room goes dark. You know what goes dark for you is no lunch money. No, you get no sneakers. Don't let it be Christmas time. No Christmas toys. I felt like Eddie Murphy's for little

[Max Kellerman]

Rich Paul is like if someone took golf away from you. Now golf.

[Rich Paul]

How about just unplug the earth.

[Max Kellerman]

You crazy?

[Rich Paul]

Turn all the lights out on planet Earth.

[Max Kellerman]

No kicks.

[Rich Paul]

The pull the plug thing was. And if we got caught cursing. You ever took a bath with coast soap? I figured you did, but this soap, 30 people could take a bath with this soap. And it never gets thin. Like, it'll take you six months for this one bar soap to get thin, right? That's how. Imagine having to wash your mouth out with that.

[Max Kellerman]

No, there was no wash in my house. There's no wash your mouth out with soap. Or you're getting hit with a belt or something. You just got regular hit.

[Rich Paul]

Big Rich, he wear that hat cocked, ace deuce on that little fro. And he sit there in that chair. He have his Burnetts right here, visible. So when you come into the store, if you ask him for a drink and you not in the inner circle, he give you the Burnetts, which is cheaper, right? The good stuff was the Tanqueray was back here. You don't get that, though. It depends on who it is. You had to be like, in order to get to Tangare, you had to be all of his close friends. Bernard, he get fish to Tang. He get fish to Tangare. He loved fish. That was his guy. But just certain guys, he had another friend, Jack, that would come by. He'd get the Tangare, but most people come in the store would get the Burnettes. But yeah, no, when he pulled that

[Max Kellerman]

plug, the confectionery, like, you know, I

[Rich Paul]

got investors in LA somewhere. I have investors.

[Max Kellerman]

We should do it.

[Rich Paul]

My man. Text me today. I have investors for the RJ confectionary.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's a good idea. In la. Little hotspot.

[Rich Paul]

We're gonna do it.

[Max Kellerman]

This episode's brought to you by McDonald's. Level up your day with the under $3 menu at McDonald's. A sausage McMuffin for just a dollar fifty. And when it's time for lunch, grab a McDouble. Only 250. McValue makes sure you can power up without losing too many coins. $1.50 sausage McMuffin or 250 McDouble. Now that's a legendary drop. Get even more value with McValue. Only at McDonald's. I get to do this because I'm doing a McDonald's read, but a bup, buh, buh. How'd I do? Limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. All right, you want to do some emails?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, let's do some emails. We got a voicemail.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, well, make the questions quick. Don't take forever. It's 4242-4083-4142-4240-8341. Let's do the voicemails first.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, let's do it. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

My name is Marcello from Queens, New York.

[Rich Paul]

Question is regarding boxing with Canelo coming out with a fight coming this fall

[Max Kellerman]

against Christian to retain his belt that

[Rich Paul]

he lost last year to Crawford.

[Max Kellerman]

And Canelo being on the way down career wise, and Crawford retired, who's really

[Rich Paul]

the main staple and face of boxing? And are there any upcoming boxers that can take the quote unquote spotlight of

[Max Kellerman]

being the face of boxing in the future? I'm going to give you three names. He's asking for the next face of boxing. The guy who's just going to keep winning is Shakur Stevenson because you can't hit him. Every era has Floyd Mayweather, Pernell Whitaker, like, you know, Willie Pep back, and they good luck hitting him. You can't hit him. You can't beat him. Right? But a lot of times that guy Floyd had the personality. So he's money, money draw. But usually that guy's not the biggest draw.

[Rich Paul]

I never heard of Wait a minute, Max. I've never heard of no Willie Pep

[Max Kellerman]

back, by the way. Just watch on YouTube.

[Rich Paul]

I'm talking. What year was this year?

[Max Kellerman]

50s.

[Rich Paul]

Come on.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm going back. I said Floyd Mayweather, Pernell Whitaker, like all the way back to Willie Pep back.

[Rich Paul]

You sound like a cousin of mine down in Jonesboro. Willie Pep.

[Max Kellerman]

Willie Pep. Any WP from the old days.

[Rich Paul]

You have to stop. You making these names up. No, seriously, you making these names up. There's no.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you understand? One, one day, you know, you know,

[Rich Paul]

I'm going to YouTube.

[Max Kellerman]

Willie Pep years from now, someone's going to bring up LeBron James. You can't bring up someone from that long ago. Do you understand?

[Rich Paul]

No, but. No but I've just never heard of.

[Max Kellerman]

Willie was so nice. It was crazy.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Anyway, I'm sorry. Point is, that was. But the. But the face of boxing in North America is David is going to be, if it's not already, David Benavidez, the Mexican monster. This dude is. He's so good. He came up from Super Middle Light, Heavy Cruiser and Turki. Al Sheikh has been tweeting recently that he wants to make Benavidez Usyk for the heavyweight title. And that's not like a gimme that. Usyk's gonna win that fight. Benavidez is nice, like heavy.

[Rich Paul]

That's gonna be a nice purse.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. And then there's one more guy, I'll tell you one more guy, southpaw heavyweight named Moses Atama, who's like, he can box, but he's fast hands, power, looking to knock you out. Young, up and coming. No one wants.

[Rich Paul]

You gotta do it, Matt. Max, you've been telling me you're gonna take me to a boxing match. You haven't taken me yet.

[Max Kellerman]

You're in Philadelphia. You're here, you're there.

[Rich Paul]

You know, it has nothing to do with the price of rice.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, we're going to a fight. I'm just saying we're going to fight. Let me just. I'll just figure out.

[Rich Paul]

I'll send my rider. Thank you.

[Max Kellerman]

We're going. All right.

[Rich Paul]

Another voicemail.

[Max Kellerman]

Another voicemail. Sure.

[Rich Paul]

Hi, this is Lamont from Charlotte, North Carolina. I have two questions. One's a basketball question and one is a business question. Basketball. What is the biggest if to y'?

[Max Kellerman]

All?

[Rich Paul]

Penny Hardaway or Derrick Rose? The second question. Business. What you think is more important? Knowledge into whatever profession or specially specialty that you want to be in. Or networking. Thanks for your time.

[Max Kellerman]

Take knowledge or networking. First, I'm curious about your Answer

[Rich Paul]

man. I think, you know, the term networking really bothers me. Okay. Because I think it's misleading to. To a lot of people networking. Many people think networking is like getting in the room and hobnobbing with somebody. And it's like you leave there, you was like, yeah, I was networking. Well, if it don't net any income, it's not working. It's not working. So I don't necessarily. But in order to be successful in anything, I think you need people that block and tackle for you. You gotta have an opportunity and then you need people that want to help you do things. It don't matter who you are. It don't matter if you were born on third. Your family still has to want to help you do things. If you take over the business, you still gotta have people there that block and tackle for you that maybe your family had working at the company for 30 years and now you're taking over as a young person. But those people still have to be wanting to see you do well and be willing to block and surround yourself

[Max Kellerman]

with good people who work hard for you.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But also want to block and tackle for you. They want to see you rise above in terms of what is the biggest if to us, Penny Hardaway or Derrick Rose?

[Max Kellerman]

I have an answer for that.

[Rich Paul]

You talking about two guys with a lot of similarities. Ironically, he picked those two guys. Both went to University of Memphis. Both are naturally quiet guys.

[Max Kellerman]

Interesting.

[Rich Paul]

With a tremendous amount of basketball skill set and just really good dudes. I just saw D. Rose as a matter of fact, with his family. Really always love seeing D. Rose. But it's both had a cultural impact on the game of basketball outside of the floor. Right. Penny had. I mean, I think, I imagine Derek still getting paid from Adidas and Penny had little Penny and his. One of the flyer shoes which, you know, number of shoes as. I mean, Penny played in the finals. Derek never played in the finals. I don't know. I think they equally yoked, man. I don't know.

[Max Kellerman]

So Derrick Rose achieved a higher level than Penny and he was more mvp. He was more of a physical. He didn't. I mean LeBron should have gotten that MVP, but. But he was more of a physical phenomenon than Penny. But Penny, before he got hurt, was kind of the guy you wanted who wasn't Michael Jordan.

[Rich Paul]

Absolutely.

[Max Kellerman]

He was so like he got to. He wasn't nearly as good as Jordan, but he looked like of all the non bigs in the league who you would want on your team, it was Penny. Absolutely. The fact that Derrick Rose is the height he was and not a great shooter, but Penny was the height he was. And on ball, like, controlling the offense.

[Rich Paul]

Six, seven.

[Max Kellerman]

And he was playing with Shaq.

[Rich Paul]

Penny was a guy everybody would have wanted to play with.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Everybody.

[Max Kellerman]

And actually, Penny for his league was a better shooter than Derrick Rose for his league. Like, I don't know what. Penny offhand shot from three, for example. But in the. In his day and age, like, in that league, whatever. Penny shot was decent from. From range.

[Rich Paul]

Penny was. Penny was nasty, man. Wow.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I don't know what else. Is that it for the. Yeah. All right, let's do the emails.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Not to make it.

[Rich Paul]

No, topic.

[Max Kellerman]

Topic. Not to make.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, no. He's basically saying, not to make it big in the NBA, but play in meaningful games. Why did he start on the NBA team?

[Max Kellerman]

Why did he put it big. Big in parentheses?

[Rich Paul]

I don't know, man. Some people.

[Max Kellerman]

This texting culture has ruined.

[Rich Paul]

It's not like he had.

[Max Kellerman]

Mr. President, let me just say it says topic, all caps, question mark, question mark, question mark, exclamation point. Then regular capitalized capitalization. Not to make big in the NBA, dot, dot.

[Rich Paul]

Hey, Max. No, we're not.

[Max Kellerman]

But played in meaningful games as the star on an NBA team.

[Rich Paul]

Who cares? We're not English teachers. What he's saying is these guys didn't make it big, but they played any meaningful games.

[Max Kellerman]

Hold on. What he's trying to say is not to make it big in the NBA. He just put it also in parentheses by accident. Okay, all right, I got it.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. He gave some. Go ahead, keep reading.

[Max Kellerman]

Some examples. Shabazz Napier, Walter Berry, Randolph Childress.

[Rich Paul]

What about him?

[Max Kellerman]

From Dreddy Cougar. But what about him exactly?

[Rich Paul]

I don't know. All I know is I don't know what he's asking us, but I'll tell him one thing. Randolph Childress is. Oh, well, not to make it big. Randolph Childress had one of the best college game moves in the history of.

[Max Kellerman]

I think he wants us to name, if we can think of other examples of a guy who maybe didn't become a big star in the NBA.

[Rich Paul]

Right. But played in meaningful games.

[Max Kellerman]

But did play as a star in meaning in meaningful games, I think in the NBA, maybe.

[Rich Paul]

No, that doesn't make sense.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, because it said, but played in meaningful games as the star. As the star on an NBA team.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm not listening. I had. I. I had my. My. I had my algebra 2.

[Max Kellerman]

That's Dreddy Krueger, dready Come on, man.

[Rich Paul]

Calculus 3, you know, whatever other math class with Mr. DiGeronimo.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not trying to figure 6 million forms of communication.

[Rich Paul]

Come on, dready.

[Max Kellerman]

Gotta plug R2D2 into this thing to

[Rich Paul]

figure out what this TI83 to figure out what he's trying. What is going on here? Max, great show.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, thank you. You, too.

[Rich Paul]

Thank you for being on time.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep, of course.

[Rich Paul]

Prompt.

[Max Kellerman]

Always.

[Rich Paul]

You. Always on. One thing about you, Max. I will say. You're always on time.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I will say that. I will say that. And you know what's up? Our guest has been on time, too. It's true. And I can't.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait, wait a minute. Guests have been rappers and are on time.

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's where you're wrong. They used to be rappers and.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

They're no longer rappers.

[Max Kellerman]

And the reason that they have. They're not only rappers is number one, because they're stars. They just. Whatever they are, they're stars. And number two, they have a level of professionalism, which is why they're able to.

[Rich Paul]

And you know what? When you do your own show.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You don't want anybody being late.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

So now it's embedded in you. When you're an artist, you show up when you want to with some artists, because not all. Trust me.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

You think we get. Mason and Mace would show up all the time?

[Rich Paul]

Absolutely. Yeah. I think anybody of those of that caliber, I want to get Nas on.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

I want to get Jay on. Those guys are not. Those guys are bigger than music.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, there are always guys like, I always thought this about Cube and Cool J. Right. LL and Cube were so, obviously, from the first time you saw them, stars that happened to be rappers. But they are stars. Yes, right. They were always gonna be stars. They'd figure out a way. And then, you know, 30 years later, then they don't have to rap anymore. They're stars.

[Rich Paul]

I think there's a lot of guys that wouldn't be late, though. I think so.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, I agree there are. But, man, I'm used to boxing where fighters are late because. Well, because until Zufa boxing, there's been no central structure, no organization that makes sure they get there for their media stuff.

[Rich Paul]

And, you know, that kind of promptness adds to your balance sheet, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I need to get better, man.

[Max Kellerman]

People who are good at that make their whole lives easier. Yeah, yeah. Just because he's always early.

[Rich Paul]

Dean's prom.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. He'll beat you there.

[Rich Paul]

I will give him that.

[Max Kellerman]

Nobody can set up us to Wild

[Rich Paul]

max. Game over Spotify.com yeah, game over.

[Max Kellerman]

Max Keller and Rich Paul, 424-240-8341 we will read emails. We will play your voicemails. Some of them the good ones or the really bad ones. See you on.

[Rich Paul]

Don't be too harsh on Jenny Dread. Dready was a little late for that.

[Max Kellerman]

We're late in the game for that. That was sailing, you know.

[Rich Paul]

See you on Monday.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, Monday. 21 and over in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Chattan Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.