Latest NBA Trends, And Which Players of the Past Would Thrive Today?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: Latest NBA Trends, And Which Players of the Past Would Thrive Today?
Date: March 4, 2026
Host: The Ringer
Hosts: Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

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Episode Overview

Max Kellerman and Rich Paul, two voices at the intersection of sports media and NBA business, dive into the latest NBA trends, player development, and a lively debate about which historic players would excel in today’s game. The episode blends analysis of current teams and players with cultural insights, personal anecdotes, and playful banter. Memorable moments include a spirited debate about Michael Jordan in the modern NBA and a reflection on personal routines shaping professional success.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

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1. Life Lessons from Rich Paul's Upbringing

[01:12 – 06:44]

• Rich pulls from Chapter 4 (“Lil Rich”) of his book Lucky Me, recounting childhood lessons about personal appearance and effort.
  • “My father talked to me about the importance of appearance...no matter what, you may not have a dollar in your pocket, but you have to look the part.” — Rich Paul [02:30]
• Both discuss how simple routines like ironing clothes taught discipline, routine, and self-respect.
  • “The way you do anything is the way you do everything, is the expression.” — Max Kellerman [06:00]
  • “It’s the smallest things that cost you no money. What it does cost you is it costs you effort, and it costs you awareness. Observance.” — Rich Paul [06:41]
• The broader message: details and consistency pay off, and these habits translate into bigger personal and professional wins.

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2. Knicks, Carl Anthony Towns, and Team Trends

[07:35 – 15:56]

• Analysis of Carl Anthony Towns’ performance, especially defensively, and how it’s shaped the Knicks’ season.
  • Max worries Cat might run out of gas playing at both ends, influencing the Knicks’ playoff prospects:
    • “I think he got exhausted. I think he had tired legs. I think his offense suffered and then he couldn’t play defense anymore for a while.” — Max Kellerman [09:04]
• Rich counters with playoff optimism—slower pace, more rest between games, and stronger rotations benefit teams with players like Towns.
  • “The one thing that does happen is you shorten the rotation...game slows down, you get days in between. I don’t think you have a reason to be nervous.” — Rich Paul [10:02–11:05]
• Discussion on the importance of rim protection, the modern big’s defensive responsibilities, and why versatile big men are so valued today.

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3. Evolving NBA Styles & Player Usage

[15:56 – 24:23]

• Max and Rich dissect the shift from big-man-driven offenses to the modern, perimeter-oriented, high-usage era.
  • “Usage rates for the singular stars, now, they’re so ball dominant...the styles changed.” — Max Kellerman [19:41]
• Debate over whether stars should fit in or impose themselves—a balance current stars must master.
  • “To be great, you have to impose yourself a little bit.” — Advice from Shaq, discussed by Max [18:38]
• Shoutouts to Ant (Anthony Edwards) and his assertiveness: “He went off. He had 41. They won behind his 41.” — Max Kellerman [19:00]

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4. Modern Parity & Playoff Mentality

[15:56; 16:09–17:26]

• Rich recalls advice from LeBron:
  • “I don’t want to play a home game for Game Seven. I’d rather play on the road...there’s less oohs and ahhs so you could play more basketball.” — Rich Paul [16:09–16:31]
• Exploration of how the playoff environment affects stars vs. role players—role players often perform better at home, stars are unfazed anywhere.
• Notion that parity means seedings and homecourt aren’t as critical as they once were.

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5. Charlotte Hornets’ Culture and Young Talent

[21:57 – 24:23]

• The Hornets’ turnaround highlighted:
  • “They’re 31 and 31 now, Rich. They’re 15 and 3 in their last 18 games.” — Max Kellerman [21:57]
• Rich credits front office changes and the drafting of not just stars, but depth and culture changers.
  • “First thing they did was say, okay, how do we change this culture…They’ve done extremely well in the draft.” — Rich Paul [22:38]
• Praise for rising talents (Khan Caniple and others) and emphasis on educating feet (skills/fundamentals).

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6. Draymond Green, Nico Harrison, and Trade Evaluations

[27:58 – 30:25]

• Max addresses Draymond Green’s claim that Nico Harrison deserves an apology for the Luka/AD trade, arguing the issue was the return value, not the decision to move on from Luka.
  • “The issue was...for him to be essentially traded straight up for Luka, the feeling was you need to get more than that. And the fact is that has panned out. AD Just got moved again. And he got hurt and he got moved again.” — Max Kellerman [29:39]

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7. Debate: Past NBA Legends in Today’s NBA

[31:02 – 43:21]

• Sparks fly in a fun segment speculating how legends from the past (Jordan, Bird, Barkley, Isaiah Thomas, Nick Van Exel, more) would fare in the modern league.
• Max makes a bold claim:
  • “I don’t think Michael Jordan in today’s game would average a 40 point triple double, Rich.” [32:13]
  • “If he’s at 32, 8 and 8 in that era without shooting the three, what do you think he is today?” — Max Kellerman [35:14]
• Rich pushes back, emphasizing the mentality of current players and that pecking orders are less rigid.
  • “These kids today, they not bowing down to nobody…Now, could he average 40? Yeah...but you said a 40 point triple double.” — Rich Paul [34:29]
• Both agree players like Barkley, Isaiah, Van Exel, Scottie Pippen would thrive; much love given to overlooked or undervalued stars.

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8. Chet Holmgren and the “Bobby Murcer” Phenomenon

[44:51 – 49:44]

• Max delivers a “five minute max” monologue drawing parallels between Bobby Murcer (baseball) and Chet Holmgren’s early NBA arc.
  • “Chet’s having a Bobby Mercer type moment...Pretty soon, I’d like to see Chet impose himself on the game a little bit more.” — Max Kellerman [47:25]
• Commentary on the need for talented young stars to seize their moments and make the leap from “good” to “franchise-changing.”

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9. NFL Sidebar: Franchise Quarterback Qualities & the Franchise Tag Concept

[52:35 – 63:07]

• NFL news cut-in: Kyler Murray’s pending release/trade, Daniel Jones’ transition tag, what makes a franchise QB.
• Rich discusses what it means to be a franchise player and compares the NFL tag to NBA contract structures.
  • “Should there be a franchise tag in the NBA?” — [58:26]
  • Rich: “Hell no...If there were, it’s an interesting way to think about it...I would say you can only franchise, a player can only be franchised one time...I would say 30%.” [58:45 and 59:54]

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10. Mailbag: Sneaker Culture, GOAT Debates, and More

[63:32 – 71:29]

• Fun sneaker talk:
  • Max: “The Jordan Threes...When I saw this for the first time I couldn’t…I thought I was looking at the future.” [65:05]
  • Rich: “I'm Mr. Bias. I'm a New Balance guy...Jordan 3, shell top, and a 993. I don't need no other shoes.” [64:19; 67:55]
• Discussion of how sneaker culture has shifted—less focus on one must-have, more on individuality and optionality.
  • “I don't think the basketball shoe today has the impact it had yesterday in terms of converting to a lifestyle shoe. But there is room for it to come back.” — Rich Paul [68:36]
• Listeners are encouraged: “Email us about that for sure. See you on Friday." — Rich Paul [72:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the little things:

  • “It’s the smallest things that cost you no money. What it does cost you is it costs you effort and it costs you...awareness.” — Rich Paul [06:41]

• Jordan in the modern era:

  • “I don’t think Michael Jordan in today’s game would average a 40 point triple double, Rich.” — Max Kellerman [32:13]
  • “Now, could he average 40? Yeah...but you said a 40 point triple double.” — Rich Paul [34:29]

• Franchise tag in the NBA:

  • “Hell no...But if we did, I would say you can only franchise a player one time, and I would go over the 25%. 30%. 35%, maybe 40%.” — Rich Paul [58:45; 63:05]

• On sneaker culture:

  • “The Jordan 3 was so impactful in so many different ways… but now it's all about cool and comfort.” — Rich Paul [66:34; 67:01]

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Timestamps by Topic

| Segment | Start | End | |------------------------------------------|-------|-------| | Life Lessons/Book Discussion | 01:12 | 06:44 | | Knicks & Towns Analysis | 07:35 | 15:56 | | Playoff Trends & Defensive Bigs | 10:02 | 17:26 | | Evolving NBA Styles/Usage Rates | 15:56 | 24:23 | | Hornets’ Turnaround/New Talent | 21:57 | 24:23 | | Draymond Green/Nico Harrison Debate | 27:58 | 30:25 | | NBA Legends: Then vs Now | 31:02 | 43:21 | | Holmgren/Assertiveness in Young Stars | 44:51 | 49:44 | | NFL Sidebar/Franchise QBs & Tag | 52:35 | 63:07 | | Mailbag (Sneakers, Culture, GOATs) | 63:32 | 71:29 |

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Tone & Style

The show balances in-depth sports analysis with personal storytelling and friendly banter. Both hosts maintain a conversational, authentic, and sometimes humorously competitive tone. Rich injects lived NBA business experience, while Max frames sports within broader cultural and historical perspectives.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode exemplifies "Game Over" at its best: deep dives into current NBA storylines, honest debates about the game’s evolution, and nostalgic trips through basketball history—punctuated with laughs, sneaker talk, and a smooth blend of culture and sports wisdom. If you want to understand the NBA’s present by learning from its past—and have fun along the way—this episode is for you.

Transcript

[Max Kellerman]

This episode is brought to you by Loom. When your calendar is all status meetings and your teams are still misaligned, it's easy to feel stuck. Get your org unstuck with Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian. Record a Loom to share priorities, feedback and key decisions. AI makes video editing one click and adds instant summaries so everyone from direct reports to partner teams gets clarity in minutes, not meetings. With Loom teams stay aligned and focus on work that matters. It's a team changer. Try Loom [e-mail]. Rich on what is it? It's Wednesday. So on Monday we talked about your book. Do we do that on the air or off? Sometimes forget what we say on the air and what we say.

[Rich Paul]

We do it on the air.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. We talked about doing a chapter like the way your book is, Lucky Me, which is a great read, by the way. You have chapters that distill lessons, right? Life lessons. So we said we're gonna pull one from the book today and do it off the top.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I thought about it. I think the best one to do is chapter four, which is Lil Rich. That's just a chapter name. But the rule in there is nowadays it's Big Rich.

[Max Kellerman]

It's lots. Very lots.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no.

[Max Kellerman]

Little rich to very rich.

[Rich Paul]

You have to quit. You know how many family members I have? Yeah, you have to quit saying that.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I get it.

[Rich Paul]

My mother had 11 brothers and sisters.

[Max Kellerman]

Now, because it'd be backed up.

[Rich Paul]

And they all had three kids apiece. And they all had three kids apiece.

[Max Kellerman]

Little Rich. Real quick.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But nevertheless. No, my family's great in that chapter, the Zarug Iron youn Clothes. And I talk about my sister, how she really shaped me to. I had, like, two pair of jeans and I had a little sweater, my Richie Rich sweater that I loved. I wore every Tuesday or Wednesday. I forgot which day it was. It's been so long. It was turquoise and it had a little plastic man on the front. And my sister. My sister Nikki got me that sweater for Christmas, which I love. But my sister Brandy taught me how to iron my clothes. And I became obsessed in ironing my clothes. Niagara Falls starch. I'm sorry. Starching it up. Not too much so they can stand up by themselves. But, you know. And I hated a double crease. I wanted to just have a single crease. It really mattered. Double crease may have me late to school. So nevertheless. But my father talked to me about the importance of appearance. And it all came back into Play. And he used to always say, no matter what, you may not have a dollar in your pocket, but you have to look the part. And it really helped through conversation. It really helped people view you a certain way. And I think about all these things, and every time, I can go back to the ability of me learning how to iron my clothes, but more importantly, approaching the day with no matter what, I want to look nice. Not have the most expensive things, but show people.

[Max Kellerman]

At least I've put effort into my appearance.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Because it matters so much. So think about it. If I choose not to look a certain. If I didn't care how I looked going to the airport, I never had that conversation with lj. You get what I'm saying?

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

It all matters. And I tell my clients today, if they're buying a certain watch, if they're dressed in a certain way, it helps a conversation that you may not even know who this person is in this elevator. You may not know who this person is next to you at the blackjack table or next to you at a dinner table. It says a lot about you as a person. And it don't have to be a $2,000 sweatshirt.

[Max Kellerman]

It has to be that some thought went into this. This person. So my mother's an artist, right? Like, really? Her whole brain, I think, is on the right side of her head. All artists. So she wasn't really. I went to school. P.S. 41. Look.

[Rich Paul]

So.

[Max Kellerman]

But you know when you get to school, your friends will clown you about, like, what? Right? So I go back home. I'm young. Young. And I was like, yeah, I'm supposed to iron my stuff, Ma. You know? So my grandfather, my Zeta, my father's father. That's Yiddish for grandfather, who lived with us, showed me how to iron my clothes because he used to iron during the Great Depression. He's an immigrant, but during the Great Depression, he worked at a place, you know, ironing shirts. Two cents a shirt. But talk about standing on principle. Height of the great. The depth of the Great Depression. The dude comes to him and goes, I have to cut you to a penny a shirt, because times are hard. And he quit his job. It's like, Zadeh, you quit your job in the worst part of the Depression. And he stood on principle. No, I'm supposed to get 2 cents a shirt.

[Rich Paul]

I don't blame him for that.

[Max Kellerman]

But he taught me how to iron my stuff. And that was the end of going to school with wrinkled stuff. It was. It was. And back then, it was like Latigre Lees they had to be the same color. Right. And you had to have the crease right down the middle of the lees had to be creased, but you start

[Rich Paul]

to crease a little bit below the pocket.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

You don't want to crease all the way up to the waist. But the other thing it does also is it allows you to develop a routine. See, you get up in the morning, wash your face, brush your teeth, make the bed. I used to iron my clothes at night because I used to sit there.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Lay them out.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I used to dream about, oh, I'mma play this like that. My shoestrings go like that. You know, it was. You know, I just used to go crazy about stuff like this. But anyway, the way you do anything

[Max Kellerman]

is the way you do everything is the expression.

[Rich Paul]

And that. Yes, that's true. And that matters. And so my dad, I just tied it all back in between my siblings. My dad now approaching practice, you know, playing a high school sport or playing my muni league team, just all those things came from just me developing the routine, ironing my clothes.

[Max Kellerman]

It's good that you share it with people because you came out of nowhere and you built a business. You became a famous guy with a successful business. And that's based. So, like, what you do, when people see people like that, they go, what were the things that they did that they felt were important to them on their road to where they are now?

[Rich Paul]

It's the smallest things that cost you no money.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

What it does cost you is it costs you effort and it costs you. It costs you awareness.

[Max Kellerman]

Know what else cost you?

[Rich Paul]

Observance.

[Max Kellerman]

You know what else cost you no money?

[Rich Paul]

What?

[Max Kellerman]

Subscribing to this show. Not. It doesn't really, because. Because everyone has Spotify and Netflix. Everyone has that.

[Rich Paul]

But.

[Max Kellerman]

So you already spent. So. So it costs you nothing. Look at this. Nothing. Or if there is rules of wisdom for nothing.

[Rich Paul]

If there is a cost, it comes with a roi. There's a return.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, well, the cost is really the time you spend. That's what I said.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, there's a return on it.

[Max Kellerman]

Are you ready to do this?

[Rich Paul]

Let's do it.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

Game [e-mail]. do we have any mail?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, we get the emails every show.

[Rich Paul]

Now, did they say anything about doing the show at March Madness or.

[Max Kellerman]

No, I didn't see an email about that. That I remember.

[Rich Paul]

Check your other email.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, let's start the show.

[Max Kellerman]

This episode of Game over is presented to you by Loom if your organization runs on endless email threads and status meetings, teams feel stuck unstuck them With Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian. Teams record their screen and share a link so others review on their own time. AI makes recording and editing one click and and add summaries, action items and searchable transcripts so everyone gets clarity in minutes, not meetings. Replace unnecessary meetings, speed up approvals and onboard faster. With Loom, you remove communication friction. It's a team changer. Try loom [e-mail]. Rich the Knicks with a win yesterday, they are hot again, right? They were hot for a lot of the season. They were cold in January, now they're hot again. But let me tell you something, I am a little bit nervous, a little bit nervous about this because when they were playing well, to me the pivotal thing was Carl Anthony Towns on the defensive end. Cat is when he came out of that draft, he went first and d' Angelo Russell went second and Okafor, Jaleel Okafor went third. And remember back then it was then Porzingis, remember back then it was Kat's going to go ahead of Okafor because Okafor is like an old school center and Cat is a modern center. And part of being a modern center is or big. Part of being a modern big is you can defend out in space, right? And everyone thought he could do that sort of thing. And he spent a lot of his career as a bad defensive player. He gets to the Knicks and this year for the first time for like a month straight, I saw him play really good modern big defense and the Knicks were hot and then they got real cold because he, his offense really suffered the next month. So Rich, I'm thinking now he kind of hit a rookie wall in a way. I'm hoping that's what it was that like because he had never played both ends of the floor at that level of intensity, I think he got exhausted. I think he had tired legs. I think his offense suffered and then he couldn't play defense anymore for a while and the Knicks fell flat. He's doing it again now and they're looking really good again. But it makes me nervous going forward. Like how long can he sustain play on both ends of the floor?

[Rich Paul]

Well, it should make you nervous actually. You should be excited. Let me tell you why. Because in the playoffs, first of all, you get a day in between a rest, sometimes two days in between the rest, the game slows down, right? The one thing that does happen is you shorten the rotation so you knowing Mike, he's gonna probably play eight guys, maybe nine, but definitely eight.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, one of them's Robinson, who's gonna, who gives you great minutes.

[Rich Paul]

I don't think you have a reason to be nervous. I think you just have to wait and see the matchups. Look, we're at a time to where it's not gonna be a team that runs off. Maybe it won't. We'll see. But like, as you get to the last. We've got 22 games left in the season. The last 15 games of the season. I doubt if you see a team win 10 games in a row. It's gonna be very difficult to do that. Also, you have to look at the standings. You know, obviously teams are two games or a game and a half apiece. You go from two to five or two to six. So every game is starting to matter at, at this point. But no, I don't think you have a reason to be nervous.

[Max Kellerman]

I think they're not peaking too early. I'm a little nervous. They're peaking. I'm a little nervous. They're pe. They're starting to peak too early.

[Rich Paul]

No, for all teams, this is a time where guys really have to start to shape up and start to really say to themselves, okay, as you're ramping up going into the playoffs, one, you just got to pray that everybody stay healthy. That's the most important thing. Everybody stay healthy. But two, you know, the intensity level. The intensity level is going to go up because it's not like it used to be. If we get a number one seed, the AC is not going to be. Just be a pushover. These guys are coming to win. Yeah, they're coming to win. And so, but no, I don't think you have anything to do.

[Max Kellerman]

It does make me feel a little better when you say, like it is true that you have more rest in the playoffs. It's more of a half court game in the playoffs. The Knicks do have a, I think they have a formula, as I said the other day, where they play intense defense, they can take shots late in the clock. So it's, it's almost like a ball control team against, in football against the faster paced teams, it can slow them down on both ends of the floor. And, but, but like, you know, Cat, when Shaq told Cat like a week or two ago, hey, you gotta be the guy, I think that's a real thing.

[Rich Paul]

But it's also, again, styles make fights and it's a way that you exploit each matchup differently. So there may Be some times where I listen me as versatile as Cat is, I like to play through Kat. I like to play through him at the nail. He can go into a dribble handoff, he can pop, he can slip, he can play make, he can lights out. Yeah. But he also has a great touch to be that size and have a great touch around the basket. I'm talking about eight feet in.

[Max Kellerman]

No question.

[Rich Paul]

Like that Hardenstein touch. He's just so multifaceted. So when you say there was this or that coming into the draft. No, it wasn't like he was the player who you can see and evaluate and say, okay, where is he at eight years from now, ten years from now?

[Max Kellerman]

But I think the detail, the development, the offense was obvious. But the idea of the potential for being a really good modern defensive big projected him as could he be in the MVP conversation perennially. And he has been because now the defense is there. It's different. But he has been a perennial all star but not a perennial MVP candidate. Right. I mean there are levels to it

[Rich Paul]

not focusing on one player. Let's just focus on the position. When you say defense for big, what do you think about when you say

[Max Kellerman]

you want to protect the rim and you want to be able to jump at to like defend in space? Right. You gotta.

[Rich Paul]

But when you say defend in space. So the best bigs defensively, like you said one, they rim protect. But a thing which is just as important as a rent protection is when a coach can allow you to be able to switch one through four.

[Max Kellerman]

Absolutely.

[Rich Paul]

One through five or two through five, whatever the case may be. A lot of times you see teams today, they read a lot of the pick and rolls, which is forcing you to a certain side of the pick and roll right. To defend it a certain way. But when you can switch and just allow the man, the big to really be out there on the island, that's when things get very interesting for teams.

[Max Kellerman]

And so then the big becomes a real anchor of the defense.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but the big is not expected to stop the player. Cause by the way, this is the NBA. It's very hard to stop a lot of.

[Max Kellerman]

But the big is expected to be the last line of defense that allows the other guys to gamble a little bit more, to play a little more

[Rich Paul]

aggressively in some cases. But you ever watch a. First of all, you ever watch a big play defense, you gotta remember a big has to be able to be helpline. They have to be able to then X out.

[Max Kellerman]

It's a high IQ position on defense.

[Rich Paul]

It's a very high IQ position on defense. And when you have a lot of

[Max Kellerman]

things, they have a lot of things to keep track of.

[Rich Paul]

One of the things that helped Derek lively go from 28 to 12, he probably would have went 10, but they traded knowing that Orlando wasn't going to take him, and they got some draft capital, was able to take him at 12, was the ability to do these things that we're talking about, protect the rim, be able to guard on a switch, and then have the ability also to X out you. Covering that ground is such an important role. So, you know, not. I don't want to.

[Max Kellerman]

He's been doing everything you just said, by the way, the last. And he did it for about a month. And I mentioned it on the show. I'm like, oh, my God, Carl Anthony Townes is doing it, but I want to get. And then he got exhausted, and so now he's doing it again. And I just. You're right. Maybe there's enough Runway to carry this to the playoffs. And then things slow down. I'm hoping that, or I'm hoping maybe he gets a second win if he has a second win.

[Rich Paul]

And by the way, it don't matter when you have the parity that you have in today's league. Seatings don't matter as much as much. Now you do want

[Max Kellerman]

an extra home game would be nice.

[Rich Paul]

Well, it depends, because One thing that LeBron always used to say to me is, I don't want to play a home game for game seven. I'd rather play on the road. And I was like, really? And I was like, why? He was like, because there's less oohs

[Max Kellerman]

and ahs so you could play more basketball.

[Rich Paul]

When you. At home, it's just you.

[Max Kellerman]

So it's not as much when you

[Rich Paul]

on the road, it's just you. No, he's saying from every miss for the home crowd is a ooh or a ah.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay?

[Rich Paul]

So every time there's something, there's a reaction to it. It's like being at the blackjack table. And I hate this. This is a rule you cannot do. When you're watching somebody play cards, there is no oohs and ahs.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

You don't get to. If the dealer get 21 next hand, I don't need you talking about, oh, that's.

[Max Kellerman]

You don't want. But I'm saying you don't want him playing to the crowd. In other words.

[Rich Paul]

No, it's not about him playing to the crowd. It's about the crowd playing to every Possession, it's not about the player playing.

[Max Kellerman]

But why does that matter unless it's affecting the player?

[Rich Paul]

No, because it does matter a lot. If I shoot the ball and I miss and it's like, oh, are you. And I make. And he's like, no, you just want to be able. It's a game seven. You want to be able to lock in.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You're saying the crowd will affect the players if it's too much oohing and ahhing on every player.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I guess essentially you're saying the same thing. So he, he would rather play on the road.

[Max Kellerman]

And by the way, he had maybe the biggest win in the history of basketball on the road in a game seven.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but some guys would rather play at home because you kind of.

[Max Kellerman]

You get a little juice. Feel that, by the way. So this leads to something else about Cat and what, what Shaq told him, which I think applies to a bunch of games last night, and it certainly applies to a couple Knicks players I mentioned the other day in Josh Hart and Mikhail Bridges. It's such an interesting time in the NBA where even though usage rates for the biggest stars are sky high. Right. What Cat told Shaq, when Shaq first told him, you got to be the guy is like, I just want to play the right way. And, you know, it's not about ego. We just all fit into the team. And that's an admirable way to play. But Shaq's like, no, no. But to be great, you have to impose yourself a little bit. And I get it. Like, it's a balancing act in the NBA right now, where you want to play the right way. But certain players have to know when they need to impose themselves on the game a little bit more. Right. Not just fit in, but impose themselves. And when Cat can do that on both ends of the floor, it's different. Ant did that, you know, like, Ant is on the other side of that, where about a week ago, he's, you know, this is what I do. This is what I do. And he took a contested three, double teamed in the. In the corner and hit it to ice the game. But at the same time, maybe there's. That's not the highest percentage play, but he did it again yesterday.

[Rich Paul]

He.

[Max Kellerman]

He went off. He had 41. They won behind his 41. Who'd they play?

[Rich Paul]

Memphis?

[Max Kellerman]

The Grizz? Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

They needed his 41 and they won. Right. So, like, it is a. It's just like an interesting time in NBA history. Where it's not clear when guys should kind of let it happen and when they need to impose themselves.

[Rich Paul]

But hasn't it always been that way? I think star players, it don't matter. They're gonna do what they do no matter what. Road home, et cetera. Role players tend to play better at home.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

Right. But I think it's always been that way.

[Max Kellerman]

Usage rates for the singular stars, now, they're so ball dominant. They're so. You know, it's.

[Rich Paul]

Well, it's just a different. But also it's just a different style of play.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Remember pick and roll. Remember, the styles changed. At least when I first started watching the game, it was dump it down to the big. The big back, you know, dribble, dribble. And the game was a lot slower, unless you were playing some of the west coast teams. Then it went to. Obviously the Bulls had the triangle, which they ran the triangle.

[Max Kellerman]

Actually, really what it went to was Rick Pitino and the bomb squad on that same Knicks team where they would dump it down to Patrick Ewing. They had all these dudes starting to shoot threes more. And that really is what led ultimately to d' Antoni being like, let's take that to the next level. And then to Golden State. Right. Like that's kind of the line.

[Rich Paul]

But only when it got to Golden State did it equate to winning.

[Max Kellerman]

That's true. But at the highest level, we had

[Rich Paul]

two stints of the triangle. Remember, the Bulls had the triangle and then the Lakers had the triangle with Phil. And then the Pistons are the first team that you saw. The 04 Pistons team that you actually saw not have a actual superstar player. Like they had a superstar team where I think they sent what, four or five guys to the all star team. They all checked in at the same time.

[Max Kellerman]

And they also are in the conversation for greatest defensive team in the history of American team sports. Like any sport, that Piston team might be the greatest defensive team ever.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. So, but then it got into. Now everything is a ball screen. Everything is T. Lou actually implemented what you see now in a lot of the playoff series where they're hunting for the weakest defensive guy. They're putting him in every ball screen to get the switch and then you attack. Now that works all the way up to it. Not working because you have to have guys that are definitely going to get a bucket but also make the right basketball play. So that's a little tricky.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, I hate the new style.

[Rich Paul]

I know, it's a little.

[Max Kellerman]

It's homogenous.

[Rich Paul]

But you know, we in a copycat league now. The problem is when you do copycat, you gotta make sure you have the players that actually have the capabilities of copying. So if you want to shoot all these threes, better not shooters.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

So you know, it just Hornets.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, speaking of shooters, I love what The Hornets, they're 31 and 31 now, Rich. They're 15 and 3 in their last 18 games.

[Rich Paul]

One of these days you're going to listen to me.

[Max Kellerman]

I do. You make it sound like I don't listen.

[Rich Paul]

I'm listening. No, but when we talk sports, I'm like here. And then you're like here. No, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. I knew that'd get you there.

[Max Kellerman]

Basketball, I'll give it to you.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no.

[Max Kellerman]

You have insight into this?

[Rich Paul]

No, but I told you before, the Hornets team has a ton of talent. And I think when you think about when they first went and got Jeff Peterson, Rick Sna and Gabe did a good job. They go and get Jeff Peterson, then he go against Charles Lee. They evaluating the team depth in the

[Max Kellerman]

front office type thing. You.

[Rich Paul]

The first thing they did was say, okay, how do we change this culture? And not in terms of just behavior or anything like that, but how do we slowly but surely try to get guys to buy in, to understand what it actually takes to win in the NBA? Right, right. They've done extremely well in the draft.

[Max Kellerman]

They also drafted a guy who everyone knew was going to be good, but oh my God, both ends of the floor.

[Rich Paul]

But see, everyone focuses on Khan obviously. But the other, the other two guys they drafted also, they did really well.

[Max Kellerman]

Khan has that thing like I bring up, I bring up Bridges a lot because I really like him as a player. And on Phoenix you could see he's 3 and D plus. He could do more than that. And in Brooklyn you were like, oh, wow, I didn't know he could do that much more than that. But the truth of him is somewhere in between those two guys. And so when he's on the Knicks and he's fitting in, that's great. But there are times where he needs to impose himself on the game more. And that's when the Knicks are really good. Con caniple has that in him. He knows when he's got to impose himself on the game more. And when he does, it's. And he does.

[Rich Paul]

He has his. He has elite, elite, elite shooting.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, he's the best shooter in the league right now. He's the Best shooter in the league. I mean.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I mean, his numbers are through the roof.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, anytime Steph is active, it's Steph.

[Rich Paul]

Obviously, I.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's have a non Steph conversation.

[Rich Paul]

There's a few guys that shoot the ball the way those guys shoot the ball. But yeah, you know, the Charlotte Hornets, I just hope they can finish strong and I want to see them in the playoffs.

[Max Kellerman]

One thing I really do, like, one thing I forgot to mention. I want to just go back to Ant for a second. You know what I noticed about him yesterday is when you really watch Ant play, his feet are so educated. Right. There's no wasted movement. There's. There's. It's like precise footwork. You play football for a guy like that and that makes so in boxing, it's the whole thing. Like who has the educated feet? Right.

[Rich Paul]

Some guys are just. Some guys are just natural born athletes.

[Max Kellerman]

Khan has that too.

[Rich Paul]

Some guys are just, they.

[Max Kellerman]

But there's the athletic ability, that's the talent and then there's the skill.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And when you, when I was talking about this before the show, like, if you watch some guys, there's a lot of wasted movement. There's a lot of, you know, happy feet type stuff. And then other guys, it's like boom, boom, boom. Precise, no wasted movement. Really? That was the difference between MJ back in the day and everyone else. He didn't waste a single step.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But the key to the footwork from what I've been able to evaluate over the years is being able to have body control and balance.

[Max Kellerman]

Hundred percent.

[Rich Paul]

All while shifting.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Ant is. Was like when he exploded last night. It was, it was like perfectly balanced. No wasted movement.

[Rich Paul]

Phil Handy always works on that. He's one of the guys like, you know, Phil Handy is. Yeah, yeah. But he always getting like the body control and balance, you know. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

So I'm always impressed by that. Cause I have no balance.

[Rich Paul]

So you don't,

[Max Kellerman]

you don't need to dwell on that. I could pop if you want to,

[Rich Paul]

you know, like B Street.

[Max Kellerman]

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[Max Kellerman]

Draymond's comments on Nico Harrison I just want to mention a couple things about this Rich, you don't have to touch this.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I'm going to sit this one out.

[Max Kellerman]

He said so many people crushed Nico for the reasons he gave when he made the trade Luca for ad. When Nico gave those reasons, everybody said he's ridiculous, he's crazy. Now when I turn on the TV all I see is the media who crushed Nico, which essentially aided him in his getting fired, regurgitating the same things that Nico Harrison was saying. And he thinks people owe Nico an apology. No, Dre's wrong about that. He's right that the reasons Nico wanted to move on from Luca are legitimate and you could see the manifest themselves on the Lakers two ball dominant. As I keep mentioning recently, Curse of the Gifted. He can get himself a high percentage shot whenever he wants. Short term incentive is to score, so he does that constantly. Long term, everyone standing around getting cold does not lead to team success. That part is true. And maybe he wasn't in the best shape, he wasn't playing defense, etc. But Dre, no one is criticizing or no one smart was ever criticizing Nico for that part of the deal, right? They might have said hey, but he got a team to the finals. And you know, so you can win that way, whatever, whatever. But there was no denying he doesn't play defense. And that dynamic, extremely ball dominant, James Harden style hasn't won a championship yet. It's true. The issue was not that. The issue was what he got back. And AD client of yours, AD is a great player and a great defender. However, given his age and injury history, for him to be essentially traded straight up for Luka, the feeling was you need to get more than that. And the fact is that has panned out. AD Just got moved again. And he got hurt and he got moved again. So while Draymond is right about the point about Luca, I think a lot of people. He's right, not everyone. Some people didn't get it, but a lot of people understood that half of it. What they were critical of is even if you accept that half, there's another half to the equation. And you gotta get more of a sure thing than a 30 plus year old guy with an injury history. I think that was really the issue. So I don't think people owe Nico an apology. What you and I talked about at the time, actually, I don't remember. Maybe it was probably off the show was if Nico turns out to be right and AD Stays healthy, they might win it all. Well, healthy, then they would have owed Nico an apology.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I'm just gonna say happy birthday, Draymond. Appreciate you inviting me to today. I don't remember. I have to check Google 29. Yeah, maybe 31.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, get him that. Get him that.

[Rich Paul]

Next.

[Max Kellerman]

Deal. Happy birthday, Draymond. That's it?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that's it. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Happy birthday, Draymond. I didn't know.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, He's a hell of a guy.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich, you had an interesting question about.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, this. Yeah, go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

You want me to set it up?

[Rich Paul]

No, no, you set it up.

[Max Kellerman]

Yours was.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, let me set it up.

[Max Kellerman]

You set it up.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, because we have. We, you know, we have. We have my man Gilly and Wallo. They both here today. Right? You know?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, we talked. I like chopping it up for you,

[Rich Paul]

but for some reason, Gilly thinks he could have ever played in the NBA. He's so wrong.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, you think the same thing.

[Rich Paul]

No, no. I'm one of the best shooters ever. I didn't say I can. I cannot play basketball.

[Max Kellerman]

But you could shoot in the NBA.

[Rich Paul]

I can shoot the basketball. I used to be able to play basketball when everyone was in the fifth, sixth grade.

[Max Kellerman]

I was nasty and everyone kept.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, Everyone you know, I have self awareness shooting different dynamic. I beat Gillian while I'm out of the money. But nevertheless, he'll like this question. How many legends or just legends and also players of yesterday you think could play in today's game?

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, I got one off the top of my head. Who is the goat who would be lying while I'm here?

[Rich Paul]

Man?

[Max Kellerman]

Who. Did he not take your money?

[Rich Paul]

Okay, but I did. Listen, there's no lies. He knows, but it's okay. Go ahead. How many?

[Max Kellerman]

Well, the first one that comes to mind is mj. Michael.

[Rich Paul]

Now wait a minute.

[Max Kellerman]

You cannot start with Michael Jordan. I don't think Michael Jordan in today's game would average a 40 point triple double rich.

[Rich Paul]

Now you out of your mind?

[Max Kellerman]

I'll explain. Michael Jordan's usage rate was way ahead of everyone else's in his day. And today the usage rate is even higher. For the, for the primary guy, his usage rate would be through the roof. It would dwarf Lucas or Harden's. That's one.

[Rich Paul]

Sometimes people say things and here's the thing. MJ is my guy. Like really? No, like really I got you and I, that's like we have a great relationship. And, and I never ask him these things when I'm around him because whatever. But I do believe. Sometimes people say things that he don't even believe.

[Max Kellerman]

I. But let me, I will demonstrate the case. You tell me where there's a flaw in the logic. The usage rate would be even higher than it used to be. Now the way that guy is used nowadays is as the primary ball handler, right? They take a, what used to be a two guard and they make him a, or even a three, and they make him the point guard. Basically. MJ spent one year of his career as a point guard. He, he averaged 32, 8 and 8. That's the first thing. And the usage rate is much higher now. But here's the next thing rich people talk about. MJ's outside shooting, right? Cause he was a 33ish percent lifetime three point shooter.

[Rich Paul]

No, he was a boring jump shooter. Why would you talk about his outside shooting the three ball? Or you just say jumping.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm talking about the three ball. The three ball. MJ three times in his career, shot at least three threes a game. Every time he shot at least three threes a game, meaning he had more reps doing it. He shot no less than 37%. Almost 38% from 3. Okay? Meaning nowadays a player like MJ would shoot 8, 10, 12 threes a game. Given his high usage and the more he shot, the higher the percentage went, which is in form with how his jump shooting was. His free throw shooting. He was. He could shoot. MJ would be no less than a 37%, maybe a 40% three point shooter. If he was focusing on that part of his game and his own stats bear it out, his usage rate would be higher. What does 32, 8 and 8 turn into? What does 37, 5 and 6 turn into? Because he averaged it back then.

[Rich Paul]

No, you're missing a. You're missing a major, major point. You're basing this as if people still consider the pecking order. These kids today, they not bowing down to nobody. They're not just going to sit around, let you shoot every shot.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, they do it for Luka and Harden.

[Rich Paul]

No, they don't.

[Max Kellerman]

They did it for Harden. But are you telling me that Luka or Harden would average more points than MJ?

[Rich Paul]

What I'm telling you, they're in the mid-30s. What I'm telling you is in today's NBA, guys are coming in and they're not caring as much as you think about who you are and what you did. Because in their mind, I'm the guy too. So I disagree with that. Now, could he average 40? Yeah. How does he. Yeah, yeah, but you said a 40 point triple double.

[Max Kellerman]

But Rich, if he's at 32, 8 and 8 in that era without shooting the three, what do you think he is today? You think he's not going to add 5, 8 and he had 37, 40 point triple double he would average over multiple seasons? He would average that and he would win the championship.

[Rich Paul]

This is ridiculous. And again, you're talking to the biggest fan. I. Listen, let me just say Harden came

[Max Kellerman]

close to a 30 whatever, 30 plus point triple double. Do you know how much better in every area of the game MJ was than Harden? Harden doesn't do a single thing better than mj.

[Rich Paul]

Do you know I could recite every commercial that came on WGN because I never changed the channel.

[Max Kellerman]

I got you.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, so this is. But why would you focus. This is a great question that I'm asking and you go right to Michael Jordan. A guy that we know could do all things. Give somebody else some love.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, let's talk about this.

[Rich Paul]

Show your bag in terms of your basketball acumen.

[Max Kellerman]

I'll give you it. I'll give. I mean, maybe I'm shooting too high again. Look at what Jokic does in today's NBA. Larry Bird is basically a more athletic, you Know, smaller. Jokic. Okay, right. So whatever Jokic is doing, Bird would do more or less the same thing, except he'd be better defensively.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but once again, you're stating the obvious.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, you want a non name brand player.

[Rich Paul]

No, because they all were name brand. I'm just saying, like, again, we know what Larry Bird would do, but what would Barkley do in today's game?

[Max Kellerman]

Interesting. Barkley is interesting. He would shoot more from the outside, which he was capable of doing, especially if he. If you increased the volume. That's a super interesting question.

[Rich Paul]

I know, that's why I asked you.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, that's a super interesting. He'd be a star in any era, I think Barkley.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think Barkley averages 30 and 12.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, because.

[Rich Paul]

Because, because he was when Barkley won the MVP in 93. And by the way, I don't care what you say. We'll talk about this later. Had one of the best signature shoe lineups in shoe history. But don't say nothing. Let's get to it later. He averages 30 and 12. Okay, okay.

[Max Kellerman]

See how I'm not saying, oh, how did you say he averaged. Other people would come into the league.

[Rich Paul]

Because that's realistic though. That's realistic. What would a guy like Isaiah Thomas do in today's league? Would he be a top five point guard in today's league?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

What about top two?

[Max Kellerman]

Let me think about the point guards. See, Isaiah, here's the reason I say yes. Jimmy Butler is not a top five player in the NBA year in and year out until the playoffs and suddenly he's top five. And to me, if you're top five in the playoffs, I don't care about the rest of it.

[Rich Paul]

You're top five, you know what I said?

[Max Kellerman]

And Isaiah in the playoffs, but he was money on the line player.

[Rich Paul]

How about Isaiah from game one of the season? Of course he will be.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure. But in the playoffs it would get right.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but Isaiah Thomas is one of the most skilled, forget point guards, basketball players to ever touch a basketball. Like literally.

[Max Kellerman]

No question. And then the level of competitiveness.

[Rich Paul]

The man laid down and was dribbling the ball with his fingertips. Yeah, Come on, man, this stuff is okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Isaiah was so good that he was almost a foot shorter than the other stars. And he was. And he was right on that level with like the only. In other words, the only reason people took Bird and Magic and MJ and these guys over Isaiah is because he was just that much smaller than him. But he was in that group of guys.

[Rich Paul]

But his heart was the size of the Sears Tower.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, no question.

[Rich Paul]

West side, Chicago, no question.

[Max Kellerman]

And played defense.

[Rich Paul]

But let's talk about guys like. What about Nick Van Exel?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, Van Exel's game was made for today.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, God. He would have made 200, $300 million. Nick Van Exel. I got a name for you.

[Max Kellerman]

Chris Jackson. I mean, you know, oh, Mike Mood.

[Rich Paul]

I'd be a road.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, forget about it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but I got a name for you. What about a guy like Lamont Murray? Lamont Murray had great size. He really shooted. And in today's league, we talking about shooting a 3. And the way if you can catch and shoot at 38% and up today, $20 million player with size, Iman Murray was one of those guys.

[Max Kellerman]

And actually back in the day, 38% today is like 34% back then, like because no one shot the three. The percentages were lower.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I just think about guys that, you know, I used to watch play that probably wasn't necessarily the top, top

[Max Kellerman]

guys, but you gotta, you gotta. But I don't think it's just like, I think you have to, like, for example, with the shooting, you have to look and not ask, did they do the thing that is being done now? You have to ask, is there evidence in their career, watching them, looking at what they did, that if they were playing today, they could do the things that players are asked to do now,

[Rich Paul]

what would John Starks be today?

[Max Kellerman]

John Starks, I mean, probably what he was, which is a super valuable six man in an ideal situation.

[Rich Paul]

I think in today's game, Scottie Pippen would have won three MVPs.

[Max Kellerman]

Pippen is a guy who probably had to shoot it better. And I don't know that there's evidence that he would have ever been a great outside shooter. And that may have stopped that from happening. Well, but Pippen was. Look, Pippen was the third best player in the league, whether people realized it or not, for a lot of his

[Rich Paul]

team, he would have been at least a two time MVP winner. Could be, you know why? For the same reasons that when you think about a guy like Giannis who can rebound, push, he's getting downhill.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, let me ask you a question. Is he still on the same team? Is MJ playing in this league? Cause if he is, ain't no MVPs for Pippen. But if he's not, could, could be, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, what we plan, we're doing something I don't normally do. We playing fantasy basketball. You're the one saying that's fair.

[Max Kellerman]

But he would be. In other words, if you plucked Pippen out of there, put him today, he

[Rich Paul]

would still be an MVP conversation.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, for sure. For sure. He's like the. You just said the other day, nowadays, people want a team of.

[Rich Paul]

They want all Scotty Pippins 100%. But Sean Leonard is another name. I mean, I can name a ton of Tayshaan Prince. Oh, Tayshawn Prince. I. I mean, Tayshaun Prince would. Everyone would want.

[Max Kellerman]

Everyone wants.

[Rich Paul]

He's one of those guys that you want a Tayshon.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Not just.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, what's his name on the Rockets. But he shoots it better. Thompson. But he shoots it better.

[Rich Paul]

If you want a Tayshaun Prince on your team, in your locker room, you want that guy on your team, you want that guy. But no. So I think when you know the history of the game, there's a lot of guys that could play that didn't get. They just do. That could be really good.

[Max Kellerman]

And who could do more than they did. Like, people say, oh, this guy didn't shoot it well enough. This guy didn't do this. They weren't asked to do those things. The question is, if they were asked, could they have done it?

[Rich Paul]

What about Dominique? We didn't talk about. Could you imagine.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Off of, you know, Dominique setting the screen.

[Max Kellerman]

The other thing is Dominique's like six.

[Rich Paul]

Eight. Eight. Yeah, but he. But, but. But he had Slinkies. He has Slinkies in his cast.

[Max Kellerman]

No question. But what I'm saying is Dominique was long. Dominique wasn't just like a high flyer. He was.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Good topic.

[Max Kellerman]

Gerald Wilkins was pretty good.

[Rich Paul]

I think Gerald, that gives me PTSD because I played against Damen Wilkins in the eighth grade. I keep telling you that beat us in the AAU championship before I went to the Soul and Cage class to see the Michigan All Stars. That had Garnett tractor trailer. Stupid Taylor Fife, Brandon Hughes. I mean, this team was insane.

[Max Kellerman]

It's an NBA team.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, God.

[Max Kellerman]

So, all right, now I got something for you. Five minute.

[Rich Paul]

But that was a good topic.

[Max Kellerman]

It was. So that's always a fun topic. Like, imagine playing fantasy basketball is fun. Rich trying to tell you, yeah, but

[Rich Paul]

I'd rather play that fantasy basketball of yesterday. You like to play fantasy basketball today.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, who's going where?

[Rich Paul]

And I don't want to do any of that.

[Max Kellerman]

I think everyone. Most people do. You know why you don't want to play that? Because you get to play it in your real life. You're involved in like players moving here and there, talking to teams about what would be good. So the rest of us like to do that for ourselves.

[Rich Paul]

I have to be a responsible podcaster.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Max Kellerman]

So here's my five minute max and it relates to a theme I brought up earlier of when to impose yourself, when to fit in. And I want to start by. It's about the NBA, about a specific player. But I want to. On a team that won last night. But I and I want to talk about, I want to start by talking about Mickey Mantle. Mickey Mantle is a center fielder for the Yankees MVP Triple Crown winner, won all these World Series, set all these records and actually was, other than Babe Ruth in his prime, maybe had the greatest peak of any baseball player who ever lived. And he was incredible, right? He started out his career this like phenom. He's 19. He had a couple years that were good, getting better, getting better. And then he hit a year where he broke. He was just crazy, won the Triple Crown, did all these things and he's a legend since then. Years later, a couple decades later, there's a guy named Bobby Mercer comes from Mickey Mantle's same hometown, Commerce, Oklahoma. And because of that, because he played a similar, same position really coming up, he was called the next Mickey Mantle, which is unfair, right? It puts a lot of pressure on a dude to call him the next, you know, greatest thing ever. And Bobby Mercer's a really good player and he came up his first couple years and like Mickey Mantle, he was good and getting better. And then he had one season where he's the best offensive player in baseball. Great Season, All Star, the whole thing. And, oh, maybe he is the next Mickey Mantle. And then the next, you played for the same team, the Yankees. Then the next year after that, he had a real good season, made the All Star Game. But it was in that year when it became pretty clear he's not the next Mantle. It's not like he took the season before and built on it, right? And showed he's at this level now. He's the best offensive player in the game. He. He was an All Star. And I always felt like, man, it's so unfair to this dude that he becomes the best offensive player in the game one year. He's an all. Now a perennial All Star, and he follows that up with a real good season, and it's somehow a disappointment, right? I bring that all up to say there are moments in a guy's career where you go, yes, that's good,

[Rich Paul]

but

[Max Kellerman]

maybe that's not who we thought you were going to. We thought you were going to be a little bit more. And the player I'm about to mention, I'm a beat early on this, or maybe a couple beats early on this. Chet Holmgren is a really good NBA player. No one was saying he's going to be better than Wemby that I could remember. But he was supposed to be some kind of an answer for Wemby. Tall and lanky like that, can play more like a smaller guy.

[Rich Paul]

Shaq did. I mean, he didn't say better. Shaq gave him.

[Max Kellerman]

I get it. I felt like Shaq. I look at Holmgren, I think, and you see when Wemby plays Cha. Like when that matchup happens, you see, it's on Wemby's mind to show everybody I'm different than him. I'm a level above him. It's on Wemby's mind to impose himself on the game in a way that leaves no doubt. And Chet's having another good season, just a good player. But it's to me, and I. Maybe. Maybe I'm a season too early. Maybe it's not this year. Maybe it's next year or the year after. But Chet is having a Bobby Mercer type moment. Like, maybe not yet. He hasn't had the breakout season yet. Pretty soon, and this gets to what I was saying about Mikhail Bridges earlier in the show. Pretty soon, I'd like to see Chet impose himself on the game a little bit more. The Thunder were thought to be the warriors, right? Like, oh, my God, are they this much better than the rest of the league? And they have come down to the pack and in fact, their chief rivals, it looks like in the west, if you leave Denver alone for a second. The spurs, where that's the Wemby matchup, have dominated him this year, and partly that's because Wemby has dominated Chet. I think Chet Holmgren is one of these guys. The way Shaq talked to Kat and said, you have to be. You have to impose yourself on the game a little more. I think he has to do that now. And, like, I would hate to see a situation where in a year or two, he's still doing this and it's okay. That's Chet Holmgren. Nice player. Sometimes he's an all star because I think he's capable of doing much more than that. I rest my case.

[Rich Paul]

Great. It's a nice jacket you have on,

[Max Kellerman]

Max Rich can't comment on certain things because.

[Rich Paul]

No, I don't think that takes a comment. I think it's accurate. Thank you, guys. A very talented player. And obviously what you're saying is, if that takes place, then they win another two, three championships.

[Max Kellerman]

If you think of Chet the way I think thought he was going to be by year three of being healthy now, the OKC is a different story. Right? Even with, like, okay, they don't have SGA and. And Or Jalen Williams for SGA last night. Jalen Williams. But Chet needs to, like, I'd see. I'd say, in the absence of those guys, I'd love to see him put up. You know, you mentioned Barkley 30 and 12, right?

[Rich Paul]

All right. Who said jacket?

[Max Kellerman]

This might be your dude.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

This might be really nice. This might be Ralph.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Huh. You only wear that once. Probably right on this.

[Max Kellerman]

Trying to think, yo, do you have closets big enough for all your. Your clothes? Let alone. I'm just saying try to take off.

[Rich Paul]

I really, I really like. I've never seen that before. I really like that jacket. What is that? 100% wool, I'm sure. Yeah. Is it light? Yeah, really nice. Is that a leather pocket on the inside? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

You. You're a lowlife.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, yeah, Very much so.

[Max Kellerman]

Anything, you got any Ralph on today?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's Black Label. They don't make it no more. It's just continued. No, no.

[Max Kellerman]

Purple Label. It's Black Label.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Do you remember Black Label? I mean, not to get. You always say I'm, I, I, you know, but I get some flack in the comments where people be like, you know, but for all us.

[Max Kellerman]

What flack in the comments?

[Rich Paul]

Do you get well, sometimes, you know, you talk about somebody else's brand. Whatever. The man been around since 1967.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's okay. Listen, you're not making any. You're not hiding it. You. You love, like, Ralph Laurence. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And this is clutch athletics, by the way.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You know, we're doing this thing. We're doing this thing.

[Max Kellerman]

Is that spelled backwards or something? I can't read. You got to look at it in America. Yes.

[Rich Paul]

Los Angeles, upside down. But the best comes from anywhere. So we're doing every city.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, okay.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. We're going around to different cities, and I'm going to.

[Max Kellerman]

And they're all gonna be upside down like that.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. We're starting in Philadelphia, which North Philly. West Philly.

[Max Kellerman]

You should probably start in a place that takes more pride in their city than Philly.

[Rich Paul]

Exactly. But no, but we're gonna go to some other cities. Dc, Atlanta. We don't go all around, but this whole thing around. The best comes from anywhere. It's pretty cool. It's a pretty dope.

[Max Kellerman]

Wasn't that the. Wait, hold on. I saw a movie with my kids where that was the point. Ratatouille. That was the whole point of Ratatouille, the cartoon movie, really.

[Rich Paul]

But we're going back into the communities and really having a conversation with the kids that the best does come from anywhere.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. I remember at the end of that movie, the point was there was some chef or something like that or. No, no. A restaurant critic who thought that only the best chefs could come from a certain place. But then in the end, it turns out this little rat was making all the food. So he amended his criticism from. It's not that anyone could be a great chef. I don't know if I'm getting this exactly right. I think so. But that a great chef can come from anywhere. So that seems to be the same theme.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that.

[Max Kellerman]

And what's heavier with it upside down that you can see, that's just for,

[Rich Paul]

you know, coolness of it. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And it does look cool. I have to admit it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. You know, you have to pop.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You know, eye catcher.

[Max Kellerman]

Some NFL stories. Rich Kyler Murray looks like he's about to be released unless he gets traded first. What does it take to be an NFL franchise quarterback? You know, a franchise quarterback. You see, Daniel Jones, they're putting the. The. Not the franchise tag, the transitional tag.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I saw that.

[Max Kellerman]

The transitional tag is like restricted free agency in the NFL, in the NBA. Right.

[Rich Paul]

That's what Is like a qualifying offer.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. They're saying you go shop this deal if you want. If you show us the market. Yeah. If you show us that we have misplaced your value, we've misidentified your value, then we will. We have the option of paying you more. So go shop it around. Prove us what your market is. Right. That's different than the franchise tag, which is, last I checked. Here it is. You can't leave. We're slapping this tag on you. Your salary will be the average of the top five highest paid players at the position for one year. So they are.

[Rich Paul]

But they can still negotiate a deal.

[Max Kellerman]

They can still negotiate a deal.

[Rich Paul]

We represent Breece hall, who was franchise tagged as well.

[Max Kellerman]

Jets running back. Yeah. Real good player. They're slapping the transitional tag on Daniel Jones which says that you are a good quarterback. You're something less, we feel, than a franchise quarterback. Right. Which means a guy, we, no matter what you have to be on our team will pay you at the top of the market.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I mean I look at that a little bit different. I mean he was drafted by another team. They got him. Yeah. I think that's just a little negotiating there and it's a little protection.

[Max Kellerman]

And not like Sam Darnold's not a franchise quarterback, but he just won the Super Bowl.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

He was playing against a guy in Drake May who may turn out to be a franchise quarterback. We'll see. But he got to the super bowl on a rookie deal. Right. Like maybe the NFL's changing a little bit where you need quarterbacks who are not getting paid the Super Duper Max.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, if you win it, if you

[Rich Paul]

win a Super bowl, does that make you a franchise quarterback? In some. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

Trent Dilfer. Back in the day it seemed like those days were over. But Sam Darnold just won. So does that mean that he is now a franchise quarterback or does that mean things are changing? I think the jury is out because we don't have enough evidence yet.

[Rich Paul]

Right. Well, to answer your question, it's a lot goes into it just like it's a lot goes into being a franchise player on the NBA team. I think you have to endure a lot, but it comes with winning. It comes with winning consistently. Winning in key moments. Being able to, you know, overcome specific obstacles. Whether that's getting your team in position to kick a game winning field goal or two minute drives and you know, so in, in, in the games that matter most.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

Right. Playoff scenarios. But it's difficult. And again, like if I'm drafted to a team. How can I become a franchise quarterback if we're not. If I'm never in position to accomplish some of the things that it actually takes to win a franchise to become a franchise quarterback? Given that there's 11 men on both sides of the ball, 53 man roster, it's not just all on me.

[Max Kellerman]

There are some guys whose talent jumps out at you and especially if they have the prototypical size and they can move around and they can also throw and they're act. There's some guys who jump out at you. Like, for example, Matthew Stafford was clearly a franchise quarterback in Detroit. Even though they didn't have a lot of success in Detroit, but he was seen as a franchise quarterback.

[Rich Paul]

He came to LA and won. But Kyler Murray is interesting because if he lands in the right spot. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

That's why everyone likes Minnesota. Like, if he really has his choice now, because he's going to get. He can sign for the vet minimum. Because Arizona's gotta pay his money.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. They pay him another, what, 36.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. So he has a choice now where he wants to go. People are linking him to the jets, man. I would stay away from the jets if I was Kyler Murray. I would go to a place where I feel like they develop quarterbacks. That's why everyone looks at Minnesota.

[Rich Paul]

Well, also, if you're in a position to get a new contract, you want production to come with that. And so I'm evaluating everything from top to bottom of the team, especially my receiving core.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And my offensive line.

[Max Kellerman]

And your offensive line? My offensive line coordinator.

[Rich Paul]

Coordinator. Yes. And then at this. And I'm also looking at my defense too, because, you know, we want to have time of possession on our side so defense is able to get stops. That puts the time of possession on our side.

[Max Kellerman]

Is it possible that Kyler Murray could ever be a franchise quarterback again because he was one in Arizona?

[Rich Paul]

I think it is. I think it is. Look, he, look, he, he did, he did turn that, that situation around in Arizona somewhat for a couple years. Right. They were, they were competitive.

[Max Kellerman]

He's an incredible athlete. Billy Bean drafted him high up in baseball to play baseball. And the A's don't waste picks like that. So. So he had some good. When he had an incredible athlete, he

[Rich Paul]

had some good receiving cores. I think Hopkins was there. He had a really good, good year. But.

[Max Kellerman]

But when you don't have the prototypical

[Rich Paul]

size, I know it's tough.

[Max Kellerman]

Then the next thing is, boy, you better check every other box. And because he already has the Reputation as a guy who is not,

[Rich Paul]

you

[Max Kellerman]

know, the kind of guy you say it's not. Championships aren't won at practice, they're one at home.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And he doesn't have the reputation of a guy who's going to win the championship at home.

[Rich Paul]

But we don't know how much truth was in.

[Max Kellerman]

That's true. We don't. But I'm just talking about reputationally.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, no, I, I, I believe in Kyler Murray. Just about getting to the right spot.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. I mean, that seems like everyone's saying, Minnesota, get rich quick. Rich. Should there be a franchise tag in the NBA, floor is yours.

[Rich Paul]

That's what the get rich quick is. Oh, you guys snuck that one in on me.

[Max Kellerman]

I didn't not want to. You don't have to. Should there be a franchise tag? You slap a franchise tag on a guy?

[Rich Paul]

Hell no. It's interesting, though. Look, we already have enough to deal with aprons and because I will play fantasy basketball with you today, thank you very much. If there was, it's an interesting way to think about it. Now that I am thinking about it further, I would say if there were a franchise tag in the NBA, it would have to be no less than what it would be equivalent to a max contract for a player with seven years of that service.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Because in the NFL, if you in the NBA, since there's a super duper max deal, then the top five, if you average the top five players at your position, it's going to be a super duper max.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I'm saying what I would say is for clarity, it needs to be at least 25% of the salary cap. I would say, what's the cap now? I don't know what it's going to be this year. We have to do the moratorium. But it's a lot, Right? So me personally, I would say I

[Max Kellerman]

love 25% of a lot.

[Rich Paul]

I would say 30%. I would say because I'm for the players.

[Max Kellerman]

You're going over the 25.

[Rich Paul]

I'm going over 25%, 30%. And I would say you can only franchise. A player can only be franchised one time. Okay. If he's traded and he was already franchised, he cannot be franchised again. I think that's, that's extremely important.

[Max Kellerman]

Uh, so that basically the franchise tag would. Right now, players are supposed to be in the same place for six years, but frequently they're moved in year five if the team has a feeling they want out because they want to get something for them. Right. So What a franchise tag would do is, you know, you have the guy for seven years. A little bit unfair to the player.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Who comes into a league with no choice of where he plays. He's one of the best in the world. He sacrificed his whole life to get there. And now he's told for the next seven years the average, you know, like, how long is a career? That's so much of a career.

[Rich Paul]

So in the NBA, we have. Coming off your rookie deal, you have what you call a qualifying. And depending on where you go in the draft, it depends on the percentage increase of what that number would be. Only coming off your rookie deal, though, and it restricts you. What it does is the same thing that the transactional tag does. It allows you to be able to shop. But this team has your rights and they can match any offer. Franchise tag is a little bit different because they can franchise a veteran. I don't know how much I like that for the NBA it gets a little tricky. But if there were, it's different than

[Max Kellerman]

the Larry Bird rights, which were really good for players and teams, I think, because when you had someone's Bird rights.

[Rich Paul]

Well, you can go through the. Yeah, when you. You have someone Bird. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

You can go through that and they still have a choice whether they want to sign or not. A franchise tag. You slap a dude with a franchise tag, that's it.

[Rich Paul]

No, but if you have someone's Bird rights in the NBA, you don't have to have the cap space to sign them.

[Max Kellerman]

But what I mean is, they also don't need to accept your contract offer. Like, in other words, the Bird rights enable you to give that player more than any other team because you can bust through your own cap once you have the player. But the player can choose to leave that money on the table to get out of there. He doesn't have to sign it. A franchise tag doesn't matter what the player wants you slapped with that tag, you're playing on that team, you're not going anywhere.

[Rich Paul]

I know that's. It's a little mixture of both in terms of what the qualifying offer does. It's kind of the same thing in sense of you can go out and get an offer, but this team can still match.

[Max Kellerman]

That's why it's not the franchise offer sheets. What's the other one? The. It's.

[Rich Paul]

The transitional offer sheets in NBA are extremely hard to get, especially if you are a max player, because the other team feels like, oh, well, they just want to match. So my answer would be no. I would not like a franchise tag in the NBA, but if we did have a franchise tag in the NBA.

[Max Kellerman]

Go up off the 25.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, going way up.

[Max Kellerman]

That's good.

[Rich Paul]

30. 35, maybe 40. I'm just saying there has to be. There has to be an incentive and it shouldn't count against.

[Max Kellerman]

I like that. So you can. So all the aprons and everything. It doesn't count for revenue shares, but

[Rich Paul]

you only get to do that one time. You can only do it for the player one time. But this would have to be discussed with other agents.

[Max Kellerman]

Ready to do some emails?

[Rich Paul]

Sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Miles asks. Oh, look at this. First thing. Max, what do you think about the Pelicans using a GIF of you to fight with Stephen? A. I mean, like, I don't really get into. Into.

[Rich Paul]

Man, skip that.

[Max Kellerman]

I. I don't get into, like, you know, media back and forth. I will say this about being a gif. I like it. I like. Especially if it's me. I saw this one. It's me, like, drinking, like, sipping a cup of coffee. Like, I'm interested in what's about to happen. That's better than the. I don't know. I kind of like the Iguodala one, too, but the Iguodala one. I have kids coming up to me to this day. Say, I want Iguodala.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, yeah, I guess that's pretty cool.

[Max Kellerman]

But yeah. Marcelo asks if you each had to select a specific sneaker as the goat, which sneaker would it be? And why do you have a pair of those sneakers at home today?

[Rich Paul]

I'm Mr. Bias. I'm a New Balance guy, so see that? I only have New Balance at home.

[Max Kellerman]

So this goes into my theory about your fourth favorite song, which. Which, as you know, when you make a mixtape, you never put your favorite song from an album on the mix because you played it to death. Right? Even your second and third favorite songs on an album you played to death. So if you listen to a mix that you throw together for the car or something, a lot of times it's your fourth favorite song on all these albums because they're not played as much. So I understand if people have a reaction to what I'm about to say, but I got on the goat sneaker, to me, the Jordan Threes, which are your favorite song on the album. So you. So you rather break out the twos or the sixes or whatever. But these are the goat sneakers.

[Rich Paul]

Are you saying the Goats sneakers or you or no.

[Max Kellerman]

Goat sneaker sneaker. Like this. When I saw this for the first time I couldn't. I thought I was looking at the future. And then the fact that it was MJ who back then was in his. I got third or fourth year, like hadn't won yet. He hadn't, but he was. But I saw, I think I saw Gilbert. I think Gilbert Reeves was talking about this. People compare Kobe to mj, but they don't compare him to Air Jordan. They're really talking about Kobe most resembled MJ in his second three peat. Although Kobe could also jump out the gym and all that. But the MJ from pre title days, what he was doing, I've never experienced in sports again. And these were his kicks. And they looked like. Like nothing else I'd ever seen. With the elephant print on it and everything.

[Rich Paul]

No, I, I would, I would agree. Like the, the. The Jordan 3 was so impactful in so many different ways. I think the simplicity of it. It's a very simple shoe. Right. But what it, what it meant to culture back then and the aesthetics of it, who wore it, Obviously I was watching certain guys who wore it. Great. Yeah, you can't beat the elephant print. I kind of have like, I would more so focus on like my death row of sneakers. All right, so it'd be the Jordan 3. It would be the Adidas shell top.

[Max Kellerman]

Shell top. But to me, this took the crown from the shell tops.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Well, that's when I think that's the beginning.

[Max Kellerman]

It's like when Rakim came out, it went from like. Ll suddenly seemed older. Right. Cause Rakim had just dropped. That's what these did to the shell toss.

[Rich Paul]

That was the beginning of the basketball shoe. The silhouette of the basketball shoe becoming lifestyle.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

And it had a 20 plus year run today. It's all about cool and comfort. So I would go with the 993 new balance.

[Max Kellerman]

There's another way to do this though, Rich. Cause like my brother Sam and I used to play the king of all game where you say like, what's the king of all? Like condiments. Right? Well, that's ketchup. Everyone knows whether it's your favorite or not. That's the king of all kinds. If you said the king of all cars though, you could go like the most common or whatever. You could do a Ford or you could do, I don't know, a Honda Accord or something.

[Rich Paul]

That's mass.

[Max Kellerman]

Or you could go Rolls Royce. Right? You could go.

[Rich Paul]

That's class.

[Max Kellerman]

Mass and class. Okay. So it's kind of. If you went mass on kicks, it could be uptowns it could be like, you know, white on white. Air Force ones.

[Rich Paul]

I can go without Air Force ones, though. If I had to have. I could. If I'm choosing three.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Paul]

If you gave me a Jordan 3, a shell top.

[Max Kellerman]

Good.

[Rich Paul]

And a 993. I don't need no other shoes.

[Max Kellerman]

I could see that. That's. That's. That's.

[Rich Paul]

I can. I can. I can put a wardrobe around each

[Max Kellerman]

one of those in the day. The five, seven sixes.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying, for me, that's sixes or fours.

[Max Kellerman]

What are those? Classic new balances. 5 7, 4, 5 7, 6. I forgot.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I can go without 574.

[Max Kellerman]

574.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I can go without them. That would be. All right.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

What's the last one? Or how many more we got?

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, well, there's a second part to this. Do you think players sneakers, Jordan's, Kobe's, Lamelo ant, et cetera, still have a major impact on fashion as they used to years ago?

[Rich Paul]

I said this before. I don't think. Look, I think it's important for obviously growing up. Every player wants to have a signature shoe. I don't think the basketball shoe today has the impact that it had yesterday in terms of converting to a lifestyle shoe. But there is room for it to come back. But it's tough, man. There's so much optionality today. Whereas when we were growing up, there was a lot more trend following. And there was a world where if you didn't have this, then you wasn't in the in crowd. Talk about fitting in, right. Today is like optionality. You know, you have somebody with what we would say, oh, man, I would never wear that shoe style. And today you're not afraid to wear with a thick sole and what you

[Max Kellerman]

said, Rich, I only have like six stories, so I'm already recycling. But one of them. I'm sure I've told you when these came out, I think so I have. I wear a size 10 shoe. My foot was probably. I don't know, this is a 10th grade. So I told my mother. Cause she's, you know, a depression baby, basically, right from. She was born in 1938. And it wasn't like you have all these kicks and everything. It's like you got a pair of sneakers. You wear them till you can't wear them, right. So I told her that my foot had grown. That was the only way to get a new pair of kicks. I had to have these cop these. Then I wanted them in black. I told them that my foot Grew again a few months later. Got size 11. I look like Crusty the Clown from the Simpsons. And it was. And you know, these crease real easy in the middle, but especially when your toe is down here and the shoe is up here.

[Rich Paul]

Why would you do that?

[Max Kellerman]

Because I needed. Come on. When you saw these, you needed to have these.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but you could have thought of something better than wearing a 25 for

[Max Kellerman]

a sneaker back then. That was a.

[Rich Paul]

No, I get that. No, I get that part. But you could have done something different to actually wear. Why? Okay, how about this? When you got them, they were too big. Why didn't you think to take them back and say, hey, these are too big. I need to exchange the size.

[Max Kellerman]

I know, I'm an idiot. That's why I'm an idiot. I think probably because I had to wear them out the store or something like that. You need it better, you know? I mean.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but even if you wore them out the store, you wear them out the store.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but they creased immediately.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, no. You had to ball your toes up. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

You have to remember walking like, like

[Rich Paul]

a duck almost, so they don't crease. Then you put the paper back in when you get home. Yeah. Send them off, put them in your book bag. Mom going to play whatever the case may be. Sneak back down to the store.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And say, hey, Rich, that's why you

[Max Kellerman]

founded Clutch Sports and I didn't. You're a little more enterprising than me.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

See what I mean?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

That's way if you could. I wish I would have had you to advise me back then on that. I could have had the right size.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But you know, but now you got me. So it's all good. All good. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

You ready to do this on Friday?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Yeah. It's been a good week.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Game over.

[Rich Paul]

Max Kellerman and Rich Paul gameoverpotify.com you

[Max Kellerman]

see, like we used to, like we were not getting as many emails because people, we said we're going to do them forever and then we didn't do them. So I'm trying to demonstrate we're getting to them every day now.

[Rich Paul]

We are. Yeah. We'll get more emails.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not worried about that. I think it's just certain things and we have to make sure that we people know when we say their, their, their emails because we getting the feedback. Some people call in and say, or text.

[Max Kellerman]

He said, I'm crazy saying MJ would average a 40 point triple double. Right. You email about that Am I. Am I crazy or am I obviously right there?

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying you went to the obvious player. Okay, And I. And a 40 point triple double average

[Max Kellerman]

over the course of multiple seasons. Yes, yes, that's what I claim. Okay, so email us about it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, email us about that for sure. See you on Friday.

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[Rich Paul]

Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

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[Rich Paul]

And breathe.

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[Max Kellerman]

1-800-contacts.