LeBron’s Homecoming, Coaches vs. QBs, and Signature Shoes

Summary

Podcast Summary: Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Episode: LeBron’s Homecoming, Coaches vs. QBs, and Signature Shoes
Date: January 30, 2026
Host: The Ringer
Featuring: Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

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Overview

In this episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul deliver an insightful and relaxed discussion on major sports and culture topics. LeBron James’ emotional return home to Cleveland leads the show, followed by a nuanced debate on the ever-evolving NFL “coaches vs. QBs” dynamic, and a masterclass from Rich Paul on the signature shoe business. The episode closes with rapid-fire takes on NBA parity, coach-player dynamics, a “watch story,” and more, balancing humor, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and deep-dive analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. LeBron’s Emotional Cleveland Homecoming

[08:45–18:24]

• Rich Paul’s Reaction:

  • Wasn’t at the game, but was happy seeing LeBron receive warmth and recognition.
  • “I was actually happy to see him in such a world of negativity… be receptive to the video and the crowd. It’s the first time I saw him get emotional like that.” (Rich Paul, [08:49])

• Cleveland’s Unique Relationship with Athletes:

  • Small markets like Cleveland provide authenticity and long-standing personal relationships.
  • “Those people at those games… there’s an authenticity there. You get to build a rapport and a relationship because these people are coming to the game every game.” (Rich, [09:08])

• Speculation on Retirement or Return:

  • Max probes if this is a sign LeBron may retire or finish his career in Cleveland.
  • Rich notes the speculation is good for the league but stresses LeBron’s choice on whether to play. Also applauds Cavs’ classy tribute.

• On Farewell Tours:

  • LeBron’s alleged reluctance to a farewell tour—due to pressure and disappointing fans.
  • Max: “It takes the decision about his future out of his hands a little bit.” ([14:26])

• LeBron’s Broader Impact:

  • Emphasis on LeBron’s impact not just on basketball, but Cleveland’s economy and culture.
  • “It’s one thing to change the basketball team, it’s a whole nother thing to change the economy. You know, the economy changed.” (Rich Paul, [17:43])
  • Describes years of energizing the city, influx of celebrities, and personal stories about their early Cleveland days.

2. The Legacy and Evolution of LeBron

[18:24–34:30]

• Rich on Managing Fame in Hometown:

  • Cleveland insulated them from pitfalls common for young superstars in larger markets.
  • “We were so comfortable, and the city embraced it.” (Rich, [19:47])

• LeBron in the Media & Responsibilities:

  • Discusses how LeBron’s 99% positive influence is under-credited, and unique scrutiny he faces.
  • “99% of what I do… is positive. Why does it feel like the 1%… instead of being reflected 99:1… it almost feels like 50, 50.” (Max, [22:59])

• On Trailblazing and Criticism:

  • “Sometimes things are judged because they are ahead of their time… in sports, people feel like you should do what the others did that came before you… but then… how is that really carving out your own silhouette and being… a trailblazer.” (Rich, [28:02])

• Physical and Mental Longevity:

  • LeBron could play “three more years… if that’s what he decided to do. It’s a mental thing at this point…” (Rich, [26:24])
  • Discusses the shift to being a secondary/tertiary ball handler, the value of his presence even as skills evolve.

• Potential Next Teams:

  • Max posits LeBron could stay in LA, Warriors, Knicks, or return to Cleveland.

3. NBA Dynamics: Boston, Parity, and Teammate Chemistry

[35:21–39:12], [60:48–64:32]

• Jason Tatum ‘Sitting Out’:

  • Rich: “There’s nothing there… stay focused… don’t let people trick you out of this or make you think someone has to be the man on the team.” ([36:16])

• NBA Parity:

  • No runaway favorite; OKC respected as defending champ, but league feels “pretty wide open.” (Rich, [60:53])
  • Injuries and depth impact outcomes; OKC’s resilience praised but no guarantee they repeat.

• Donovan Mitchell: “This Is Your City” Clip

  • Brief social controversy when Jaylon Tyson proclaims after a win that “Cleveland is Donovan Mitchell’s city now” right after LeBron’s tribute.
  • Rich: “He’s a young player… I don’t think he meant any malice… just trying to support his teammate.” ([63:57])

4. NFL: Coaches vs. QBs—A League in Flux

[39:12–50:23]

• Max’s “Rant” on NFL Super Bowl Quarterbacks and League Trends:

  • “We are going into the Super Bowl with two quarterbacks — one is on his rookie deal and one is a reclamation project. Neither get paid like Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen.” ([40:35])
  • Argues the league is swinging back toward being a coach’s league; high-priced QBs restrict roster flexibility.
  • “If you get a guy like Josh Allen and you pay him at the top… the margin for error is much thinner.” ([41:04])
  • Importance of not just the head coach but also the offensive coordinator.

• Rich’s Pushback:

  • Talent evaluation and roster building are still crucial.
  • “It’s more so about talent evaluating... paired with coaches, paired with culture.” ([47:08])
  • Lighthearted debate over value of ‘that dude’ QB vs. system/role players.

5. Signature Shoe Business — Insider’s Take from Rich Paul

[51:21–59:24]

• How It Works:

  • Not every endorsement is a “signature shoe.” Only a handful of athletes get a shoe truly modeled after them.
  • “A signature shoe is literally your shoe. This model… is tied to that athlete.” (Rich, [51:54])

• Business Model Nuances:

  • “Most shoe deals are pay for play. They’re prorated… If you miss a whole season, then forget about it.” (Rich, [55:18])
  • Economic shifts: Fewer guaranteed deals, more performance-based incentives, and a rise in ‘merch bonus deals’ instead of cash.

• Assessing Success:

  • Brand must balance marketing investment versus shoe sales; many “signature shoes” don’t last if not commercially successful.

• Responsibilities on Athletes:

  • “Once you get a signature shoe, it’s a lot of responsibility… You have to really be a partner. You have to show up, you have to perform and produce on the court.” (Rich, [58:34])

6. Quick Hits & Memorable Moments

[59:24–72:32]

On NBA and Young Stars

• Load Management Era:

  • LeBron: Played 70+ games a season, remarkably durable. Teams, not players, initiated load management. ([66:08])

• Advice for Young Players:

  • On Shador Sanders and Todd Monkin: “He’s the coach. Shadow is a player. Listen to the coach.” (Rich, [60:09])

On Watches and Financial Wisdom

• “Watch Game” Advice:
  • The importance of not “busting down” (aftermarket modifying) high-end watches, which destroys value.
  • “If you’re going to buy material things, at least buy right in the realm of the material things.” (Rich, [69:35])

Culture, Life, and Humor

• Jokes on Singing at Home (Adele reference):

  • “I could tell you for a fact, you’re not the best singer in your house, brother.” (Max, [06:48])

• Nostalgia for Cleveland’s Golden Years:

  • Stories about playing Rock Band in Best Buy with LeBron, hanging out with celebrities, and summer flag football games.

• Friendly Banter & Format Playfulness:

  • The hosts tease each other about “ranting” ([05:30]) and joke about podcast tropes throughout the show.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “There’s an authenticity [in Cleveland]. You get to build a rapport and a relationship because these people are coming to the game every game.” — Rich Paul ([09:08])

• "It's one thing to change the basketball team, it’s a whole nother thing to change the economy." — Rich Paul ([17:43])

• “Sometimes things are judged because they are ahead of their time… how is that really carving out your own silhouette and being… a trailblazer.” — Rich Paul ([28:02])

• “We are going into the Super Bowl with two quarterbacks — one is on his rookie deal and one is a reclamation project. Neither get paid like Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen.” — Max Kellerman ([40:35])

• “You can keep that dude. Give me Derek Fisher... I'm going to win if he’s playing.” — Rich Paul ([48:49])

• “A signature shoe is literally your shoe. This model… is tied to that athlete.” — Rich Paul ([51:54])

• "If you’re going to buy material things, at least buy right in the realm of the material things." — Rich Paul ([69:35])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• LeBron’s Cleveland Homecoming: [08:45–18:24]
• LeBron’s Broader Impact & Legacy: [18:24–34:30]
• NBA: Tatum/Boston Dynamic: [35:21–39:12]
• NFL: Coaches vs. QBs Rant: [39:12–50:23]
• Signature Shoe Business Masterclass: [51:21–59:24]
• NBA Parity & Donovan Mitchell Clip: [60:48–64:32]
• Advice/Watch Story/Cultural Notes: [64:32–72:32]

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Takeaway

Rich Paul provides a masterclass on sports business and culture, offering candid insights into LeBron James’ emotional Cleveland return, the business of sports stardom, and the evolving sports landscape. Max Kellerman challenges narratives about NFL team-building and keeps the discussion lively with his signature analytical rants and humor. The episode is both a reflective celebration of LeBron’s impact and a sharp, industry-insider breakdown of where sports — and sports media — are heading.

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For listeners seeking a blend of laughs, learning, and real access to the inner workings of sports and athlete management, this episode delivers.

Transcript

[A]

Why'd you have those sunglasses on?

[B]

These are readers. I might mess around and do the show with my readers on. Rich, you look like a cop. Yeah. You know why? I just want you to know it's true. Cause they got a little bit of the reflection, right? Like, they're a little bit mirrored.

[A]

Kellerman. Yeah, yeah, Detective Kellerman. Yeah, I was listening to a song, Max, coming in today. Lucy Pearl. I have to keep putting you up on this music since you're not that much of a music aficionado. Aficionado. Is that right?

[B]

Aficionado. You said it, right?

[A]

Yes, but Lucy Pearl has a song called you'd, featuring Snoop and Q Tip. But there's a caveat to this. There's a line dance to the song. And I want to teach you, or I want you and I to be taught how to do the line dance together. I want to document this, Max.

[B]

All right, you got it. You got it. I think I'm looking at myself. I'm looking at myself in the sunglasses. If I was in a weed spot back in the day, they would definitely. I'd have to do it like Chappelle did in. What was the weed movie. He did, what, half baked. Right. I'd have to do like. You'd have to do something extreme to remind them that it's me. Because if I came in like this, 100%, they would think I'm a cop.

[A]

Yeah, you look like a cop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's okay. Yeah, I paid my taxes. I'm all for speaking of cold.

[B]

Open. Rich. 20. It's 20. I think it's probably below 20 right now. I'd have to look it up.

[A]

Yeah. That's why I wore this jacket for you. My people back east.

[B]

No, it's 14.

[A]

Because guess what? It's 80 degrees.

[B]

It feels, with the windshield, like 2 degrees.

[A]

I told you, but you had to go. You had no choice but to go.

[B]

No, of course.

[A]

And I wanted to meet you there, but.

[B]

Once again, wasn't happening.

[A]

No, it's going to be 81 degrees here.

[B]

This is. It's 81. This is two trips now. Where? One. I was in Vegas. You're supposed to be there. Now I'm in New York. You're supposed to be there. Where's Rich? Where's Rich?

[A]

Hey, man.

[B]

Could have sworn he's supposed to be here, the weatherman.

[A]

But. But I am representing Sugar Hill. Like, yeah, Romello, off Sugar Hill. Lolly. Sugar Hill.

[B]

What happened? What happened since the last time I saw you? Like, what you been up to?

[A]

Not much.

[B]

I mean, it seems longer, though.

[A]

Yeah, it's only been two days. Not much.

[B]

No football cut any big deals?

[A]

Nah, you know, it's been a lot of. Lot of trade conversation. But, you know, none of this stuff ever happens till you get down to the. To the deadline, really.

[B]

So you want to reveal when Adele's gonna drop her new album? Something. Can we get something? Yeah, you've been working. You've been. You've been, though. We can't get anything.

[A]

No, you can't get anything. You've been in the office, though. I've been in the office every day. But, you know, it's that time. It's really that time. And this is the time where you actually call every client and say, you know, there's a chance. This idea that no one. Everyone's staying put. There's always a chance.

[B]

So there's always. Luca got traded out of the blue. Right. Imagine being Luka Doncic. All of a sudden, you get traded. You don't know what's happening. Ad obviously in the deal for, you know, they got traded basically straight up. Right? So. So it doesn't matter who you are. You could be dealt. No, Jokic could. How many guys are acting. Wemby is not getting dealt. Jokic is not getting dealt. They're like, I don't know, a handful of guys, and Edwards ain't getting dealt.

[A]

Yeah, it's probably about. Every year is probably about maybe. I don't know, used to think it, but since last year, probably maybe three to four guys, maybe five.

[B]

Cooper Flag ain't getting dealt. Yeah, that was quite a. Quite a showdown he and Knipple had, huh?

[A]

Really good showdown.

[B]

I mean, really good. And then you think, those two are on the same team. How did they not win the whole thing? How's. How is that possible?

[A]

Right?

[B]

How is it possible?

[A]

But that never happens in college.

[B]

I know. And that was like, last week. They were playing. It just happened.

[A]

They were playing again. It never happens in college. But. But that was a great game. That was a really good game. And then obviously, LJ back to Cleveland. That was.

[B]

By the way, we gotta get into that, too.

[A]

In the cold open.

[B]

No, no, this is the cold. We're doing the cold open.

[A]

Oh, well, I mean, in what capacity? I watched what capacity?

[B]

Yeah, I'm going to tell you in what capacity as soon as we say, are you ready to start the show or let's pay some bills and we officially start this thing. The first thing is going to be LeBron's, you know, reception and reaction to Cleveland. Right. And in Cleveland, that's going to be the first thing we talk about. So basically, all we have to say is the major. What's that?

[A]

Basically, you're saying that, Rich, we're starting the show in a way in which I get to rant for 40 minutes and you're only going to get to speak five minutes. I.

[B]

Which Paul would get to rant.

[A]

No, Matt, I don't rant.

[B]

I want to hear what you have.

[A]

To say about rants. Rich doesn't rant.

[B]

Why do I rant?

[A]

Get the T shirts made. Rich doesn't rant.

[B]

So wait a minute. What am I going to rant about? LeBron. Wait, you think that LeBron has an emotional reaction in Cleveland and it's time for me to rant? No, I want to hear from you, my man.

[A]

The irony of that is you rant about everything.

[B]

So I'm a ranter.

[A]

It's okay. Yeah. I have a. I did watch a good movie last night.

[B]

Oh, yeah? What?

[A]

It was called Misery.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah? Misery, you mean. Yeah, of course.

[A]

It's really. It's my first. What did you mean, of course?

[B]

Kathy Bates. Stephen King's Misery With Kathy Bates and James Caan.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, Sonny, it's a really good movie.

[B]

You've seen Misery, huh?

[A]

She was a nutcase.

[B]

There's nothing better than stumbling across a great movie that you haven't seen.

[A]

Cook dinner, watched a nice movie.

[B]

What'd you cook?

[A]

A little baked chicken, a nice salad, you know, with some. I had some grapes, cucumbers.

[B]

Did Adele serenade you? Does she ever sing for you, Rich?

[A]

I'm the best singer.

[B]

You're the best singer in that. I could tell you for a fact. You're not the best singer in your house, brother. Hell no.

[A]

Yeah. I'm the only one that sings. So that therefore, I'm the best singer.

[B]

Oh, oh, oh, I see. Oh, yeah. Look at that. As soon as I said, not a chance, he'd proved the point, right? She doesn't sing at home, huh?

[A]

I just told you I'm the best singer.

[B]

That'd be like if you came home and she was like, okay, Rich, podcast agent for me right now. Listen, let me see you, agent, all right?

[A]

I sound like when I sing at home.

[B]

Are you ready to start the show? You ready to pay some bills?

[A]

We can pay some bills. Let's do it.

[B]

Let's do it. Game over is presented by fanduel. Fanduel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick back for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com gameover to get started. 21 and over in present in select states or 18 and over in present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnecticut. Rich, I have a rant on LeBron James. No, I'm just kidding. Come on, man. I look, LeBron gets emotional in Cleveland. Everyone is interested in this. This is actually the. This is a legitimate lead story. And here we have Rich Paul, happens to co host this show, Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul. I'll say it for Rich. Please subscribe. And everyone right now is going to want to know what you think about this, what you have to say about this. So, my friend, the floor is yours.

[A]

Man. I was not at the game. I stayed back. What do I think about it? I was actually happy. I was happy to see him in such a, you know, world of negativity that's always been surrounded by all things, really be receptive to the video and the in the crowd. It's the first time I saw him get emotional like that. Cause normally they play the video when you go back, they play it and, you know, it's great. And obviously, you know, everybody back home and it's home. It's home for me. It's home for him. The thing about small markets like Cleveland would be considered a small market. Those people at those games, they're there. You know, the people in row five, you know, the people in row BB and AA and section 127, you know, the same business owners that had season tickets for their companies for so long, the same families in those corporate boxes of all the corporations around. And so it's different when you play in a small market like Cleveland. There's an authenticity there. You get to build a rapport and a relationship because these people are coming to the game every game. They're not missing a game. They're not selling their seats to a game. I remember during the finals, as pricey as those seats were during the finals, those years of the Golden State games, I think they were getting up to 25 or $30,000 a seat. No. The answer was no. So I think the emotions that it brought forth was warranted. And it's good. You Know, it's always great to find humility and grace while you're still playing the game, I believe, for. For all the legends, because you don't get those times and those moments back. And then, you know, a lot of those people also saw Bronny as a kid, saw Bronnie. The first time he was ever allowed to be seen publicly was probably in the queue, as it was called at that time. And then to watch him grow up and be two years old, dribbling the ball after games and then be four, and then. And then be six, and then the next thing you know, he's on a fast break, dunking and hitting two threes. Again. These are the. I know those people. Those same people are there. And so that part is great. It's great to see it. And I think sometimes you can be so high up on a mountain for so long that you don't really embrace that fresh air of appreciation that comes in moments like that. So I was glad to see him really appreciate it and embrace it, and we had a little conversation afterwards, which I won't get into, but it was good. It was good. Well done. I know everybody has the speculation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't. I hope he plays till he's 50 years old, personally, but.

[B]

So you're saying the speculation is he's going to retire, but you hope he continues to play? Is that what you're saying?

[A]

Well, you hear everybody's take on what it meant. Could this be. Could it not be, et cetera? Yeah.

[B]

Because people naturally are going to think, hey, maybe. Obviously, there's always the possibility LeBron just rationally could end his career in Cleveland. And by the way, the fact that Cleveland has an excellent young team. Right.

[A]

Well, they were saying they thought that could be his last game in Cleveland. I was referring to that, yeah.

[B]

Oh. Oh, okay. People think that, but they also think if he does continue to play, there's some chance that he could play there. Right. You know, that's what's on people's minds when they see. Especially when they see a warm reception and an emotional reaction. Because it's not like if you're LeBron, you're sitting there going, yeah, I would just kind of come to Cleveland to play if I wanted to continue playing my final season there. It's no, you could be in contention in Cleveland. You add a LeBron James to that team, you could be in contention. So, Pete, there's a speculation about that, too, I think. Right?

[A]

Yeah, I think it's always going to be speculation, which is good. You know, I think it's good for the league to. To have that. That type of speculation, but I don't know. We'll. We'll just have to wait and see. I know. There's also speculate. I saw he said he didn't. I know there's an article about not wanting the farewell tour. I actually believed that. I thought the response, his reasoning for it was actually warranted. But at the same time, what was.

[B]

The reason he was referring to?

[A]

I think if it was true. I didn't ask him about this, so I don't know if it was true or not, but from what I saw come across was that it just puts a lot of pressure in terms of if people are paying money to go and see what they think would be his last game. And at that point, I'm 42 years old. My body isn't maybe not be feeling it this morning, and I decide not to play, then it's kind of like a letdown to the fans who, you know.

[B]

But also it takes the decision about his future out of his hands a little bit. It forces him to decide definitively that this will be it if it's a farewell tour.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And he has not publicly announced that.

[A]

Decision, and that's true, too. But it was good. It was a very classy act by the Cavs organization. Dan was in the building. Him and his son Grant, I saw them there. And Kobe and Gans and Weems, they do a great job. And so it was great. It was great. It was good for me to. I'm glad I was at home watching on my couch instead of there.

[B]

Actually, what occurred to me also, rich, is as LeBron, you could see him making, like, faces at first, and you could see those faces were meant to control emotion. Right. And then he puts his head down because he doesn't want to make a display of himself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But what occurred to me also in that moment was, okay, you're LeBron James. You're a teenager growing up in ACT or a kid growing up in Akron. By the time you're a teenager, you're supposed to be the next greatest thing, and it all comes to fruition. You work hard. As so many things go, Right. It actually happens.

[A]

You.

[B]

You bring a. Not only did you bring a championship back to Cleveland after being the prodigal son who left, but you brought it back in the most unlikely circumstance and the greatest comeback in the history maybe, of American team sports against the greatest team, you know, had the. The Giants beat the Patriots and ruin their undefeated season in the super bowl, the Cavs beat the Golden State Warriors. But in both cases, it's like this team is about to replace the, the. The. The 72 win bull team as the greatest team of all time. And LeBron came back down 3:1 to do it. So, like, you delivered the championship under those circumstances, everything and so on. On the one hand, people can relate to it. Like, oh, I can imagine that he's now accomplished all these things that he couldn't even probably dream about doing some of that stuff as a kid, right? Who, who dreamed? You dreamed. 32 and you hit the buzzer beater, but you beat a 73 win greatest team of all time down 3 1. Who even imagines that in your hometown after you've left? And so people get all that. But it also felt to me rich. Like part of it was just the kind of lamenting of the passage of time, right? Like you come back and now you're in your 40s and now your mom who used to come to see you play is now you got your kid on the bench on the same team with you in your hometown.

[A]

That's like.

[B]

And it's all of us. It's relatable in the sense that we all, in a way, lament the passage of time, especially if you're back home, especially if you're around family, because, like, in a way, we're recognizing our own mortality, you know, in a way where this doesn't last forever. And also, and oh my God, what happened to all that time, right? As you're going through it, it takes forever, but when you look back in it, it's an eye blink and here you are. And so I felt as just a human being watching that moment, that there was a lot of that that wasn't even about necess, like it was about basketball, but that was incidental to the moment. It was really about kind of life at that moment.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, look, obviously being there and being from there, you saw the difference that he made in that community, in the city. And I always say, like, it's one thing to change the basketball team, it's a whole nother thing to change the economy. You know, the economy changed, I'm telling you.

[B]

And yeah, Cleveland was the center of the sports world there, you know, like, it was unbelievable.

[A]

Let me tell you something. Going to the playoffs every year, restaurants, hotels, I mean, parking lots, valet attendees, you know, all these different things changed.

[B]

By the way, I was in Cleveland more than I'd ever been. Right? Like, people came from all over the country and world Suddenly, to Cleveland, we.

[A]

Had Warren Buffett there, we had Jay Z there, we had Lil Wayne there. We had. I mean, everyone came to Cleveland. Cleveland became like the Hollywood of the Midwest because of LeBron. It really did. And people would fly in. And by it being so close to New York, you can get there and get out. But also, again, just seeing the restaurant owners and the success that they had throughout the years. And then we were just kids there hanging out. I remember going to. When the game Rock Band first came out, we was so Rock Band crazy that we would go to a Best Buy and they would have the Rock Band set up right in the front of the door. And you walk in the door of Best Buy, and here it is, LeBron James in his second year in the league, and we're playing Rock Band at the display and Best Buy, and people walking like.

[B]

But, you know, because LeBron is still a kid at that point. Yes. LeBron's a teenager. And it's not even like he's 19. What was he, 18 at the time?

[A]

18, 19. But I'm saying it was just. We were just so comfortable, and the city embraced it. I mean, I can't tell you how many players that were in the league still came to Cleveland. Cause back then, we also spent our summers there, too. So we're playing the craziest flag football, and we're sports fanatics. Flag football games, softball games. We can get any high school field, any college field, any arena, any. Anything, really, to do whatever we wanted to do. And the only time we would really leave was when we had to do. He had to do shoots and stuff like that. So we spent. Even if we were in LA for two weeks, we would be here two weeks, working most of the time, and then jet back out. And so I know all those things are. Was running through his head. Think about it this way. There's been three different practice facilities within the Cavs organization while he's been in the league. It was in the arena first, then everyone was going around looking this one. San Antonio had just built their first new practice facility, not the one they have now. So everyone was doing scouting, and then they built the one they have now, and now they're currently building a new one. And he's still. And he's still playing.

[B]

It's unbelievable.

[A]

You know, it's really.

[B]

And also like just the idea. It's like a. A version of Entourage, but concentrated because it's in a hometown that. Where. Where he delivered in a way. I mean, look at that point, he hadn't delivered yet, but he ultimately would deliver the. You know, the point of it all. Like, he delivered the championship in the kind of unlikeliest way, but was already kind of revitalizing the place. And to be LeBron James or to be you, to just be in that scene in Cleveland in those years, must have been something out of a. Out of a dream that I couldn't even imagine.

[A]

Yeah, it was something that you have to appreciate because it didn't allow us to lose our way.

[B]

You felt the responsibility.

[A]

Yeah. And just having too many things accessible to you too young, that was big.

[B]

Wait, you're saying it didn't allow you to use your way, to lose our way because you had. Because otherwise, since you had so many things accessible to you, being in your hometown somehow stopped that from being a bad influence. Like, how? What do you mean by that?

[A]

Yeah, because, you know, look, if you play in LA or you play in New York, you're accessible. You got people grabbing at you and reaching at you, and you couldn't get to him anyway. Like, that's the one thing we did. It didn't matter how much money someone had or what their position was, you couldn't get to him. You had to go through me. You had to go through the Maverick, or you had to go through the Randy. And even if you saw him by himself, he's still going to follow protocol and he's going to tell you, okay, call this. Depending on what your question was, call this person or call that person, period.

[B]

That's why I get it when LeBron must feel like, as I've said before, 99% of what I do on the court and off is positive. Why does it feel like the. Cause I'm a human being, not gonna be perfect. Why does it feel like the 1% instead of it being reflected 99:1 in the media? It almost feels like 50, 50. Like, it's the. The. The way. The. The way the story is told. I could understand where an athlete like LeBron, in this case LeBron James, must feel like, man, why does it not feel proportional to how much good I've actually done? I. I could understand why an athlete in that position would feel that way. Like, not. It shouldn't be that one out of every two stories has some kind of, like, negative thing in it, or one out of every. It should be one out of a hundred stories has something that's kind of negative in it, but that's just not the way things are.

[A]

No, but you also, like, he was. He was at the forefront of really Everything. You got to think. Not many people had a voice prior to his era, Right. Prior to him coming into the league, you had column writers, the people that were on tv, the pundits that were on tv, they weren't talking. It wasn't this world of like, let me say the most egregious thing and get the biggest, you know, clickbait from it. It wasn't that you didn't have so many ex players with microphones. Do you really expect an ex player to really have a genuine nice thing to say about him? In most cases that, that in a position where they don't have to. Like, if. It's just like if you go out and score 50 and win a championship, okay, well, I look like a fool saying something negative, but wherever I can get my, my negative comments or my slights or different things like that, I'm going to get it in for a number of different reasons. But I always say, like, you know, there's tape. Like, we have all this on tape, so.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

Like, I don't even have. Just. There's tape.

[B]

Yeah, just. And also, even in terms of social stuff and stuff, he's always, he was. I, I thought, I thought there were one or two missteps, but by and large, he was brave and, and used his platform and, and we weren't, we.

[A]

We, we were far from perfect, but.

[B]

He led an exemplary, an exemplary career on and off the court. And like, if you like the odds that you ever fulfill your, you know, the goal, the, the lofty expectations if you're LeBron James are almost zero. He did. He fulfilled the expectations if the odds that you are off the court, also a one in a million kind of person, are almost zero if you're also a 1 in 8 billion athlete. He was the best athlete on earth for many years. Like, if the Martians came down to earth and said, take us to your greatest athlete, you would have taken them to LeBron James probably for 15 years in a row. And the odds that that guy would also be a one in a million kind of person are almost zero. He did it like he's done an incredible thing. But this all leads to this question, Rich, because this is what the people really want to know. Could LeBron play another year in Cleveland? Could he?

[A]

Well, I won't comment on where he could play, but could he play another year in the NBA? Yeah, he could play three more years in the NBA if that's what he decided to do. It's a mental thing at this point, and I think he Talks about it a lot in terms of will he have the. The mental capacity to get up and still love the routine, still love everything that it takes to get prepared, both mentally and physically. And then when you think about family dynamic and things like that, there's a lot to weigh. And when you given the game so much, and when I say given the game so much, and again, I sit in this chair and I'm talking about LeBron, so people gonna say, oh, well, of course you're not gonna have anything. This will be aggregated because it's bias and different things like that. But if you sit and you talk to people like Adam, who leads the league as our commissioner, and you talk about just what it takes to be a great partner as a player for the NBA, I would think it's probably a 9.7 out of 10 as it pertains to those things. And when you sit in that position, you also have an expectation for everything, Right? Like, if you don't do the dunk contest, that's an issue. Or he ruined the dunk contest, but not really. I think the couple times that he was deciding to do it, he had an ankle sprain, like a date, two games before or whatever. And then it gets to the point to where you're just like, nah, I'm not gonna do it. And that's his choice. Right? But I think because someone else did it prior to you, people feel like you should have to do something in sports, I guess that's the way it goes. But I don't agree with that. Obviously, deciding to talk about your plans and where you're going, which was at the forefront of everything. When you decided to go to Miami, that became a thing, and it was the worst thing in the world until it became the most popular thing in the world for everybody to do. From third graders saying that they're going to the fourth grade over here, all the way up to every college signee now has a decision, you know, and I'm not making an excuse for it. I'm just giving you that sometimes things are judged because they are ahead of their time. And there's still. In the sports industry, there's a lot of times where people feel like you should do what the others did that came before you and how they did it. But then at the same time, how is that really carving out your own silhouette and being what I would say trailblaze, too.

[B]

When I Look at LeBron, if he decides to play on, there are a couple issues. One is, as you have said on this show, Rich, if he were to decide to be like some version of Karl Malone, he couldn't play three more years. He could play another eight years if.

[A]

He were decided pick and pop, pick and roll.

[B]

Right? Like he could do that kind of forever. Yeah, but the question, the problem has always been with LeBron in terms of like coming off ball or kind of doing less or giving. Loosening up on the reins.

[A]

Is the corner a lot now.

[B]

It's almost like a quarterback who can run a lot of times. In the old days, at least they wouldn't develop as much as passers. Because when the imperative, when the thing you're looking to do in the short term is pick up the first down and you can get it with your legs, why wouldn't you do that? But over the long run, if you always do that, you never learn pocket presence. My point about LeBron is that because he was so good even as he started to age, that he still gave you the best short term chance. If the ball is in his hands, making decisions, and it impaired in a way his ability or it impeded his progress toward becoming more of a, of a. Not a role player, but not becoming the number one option on the team or the guy the offense is going through because of his own level that he was still performing on. I do think we are now at a point where there are various teams where he would not be the best player on the team, be the second best player on the team, but that should facilitate if he so choose, chose him playing more of the role that you are talking about. And the question is, does he want to do that or not? Like when Vince Carter made the decision to become a different kind of player, he played 20 years. LeBron's already passed 20 years. If he made the decision to become a different kind of player, he could play 30 years. Like, you know, he's. He could.

[A]

He's doing it. I think, I think for the last few years, I personally liked him as a secondary ball handler, just because I know how much it takes on your body to be the primary ball handler. And once you start, the thing that made him so great was that his first step was so quick and so fast at that size. And then the IQ to be able to make the right basketball play without even thinking about it, actually, everything's still.

[B]

There except the first step right before it happens.

[A]

So. Right. So when you don't have that first step that you once had, I think it's just about having him as a secondary or even a. I would say, what?

[B]

Tertiary? Yeah, that's how you say third tertiary.

[A]

Yes. Ball handler. And when I say ball handler, that's not like out dribbling. That's just more so being able to make the defense shift and then make, make, make the pass. And so I like him, I, I don't mind him in the corner as long as that skip pass is actually being made. But the thing about it is, if that low man decides what happens is LeBron being in the corner, it's not like your average player being in the corner. So what that does is it makes that player who actually supposed to tag that big. They don't do it because it's LeBron in the corner. If that's Max in the corner, they're going to tag. But because it's LeBron in the corner, it causes. So that's how you get the, you get the, the alley in the corner.

[B]

They just leave them alone. What are you talking about?

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Now you're playing five on four, so.

[A]

But in the playoffs, given that they get there, it's one of those things that now you really have to make that decision. And if LeBron couldn't make that corner three, because catch and shoot for him, when he embraces the simplicity of the game, he's actually extremely efficient there. So I don't mind him there especially to start the game. But then as you in there with the second unit, not so much as a high ball screen getting downhill every time, but it's more. So maybe you catch it at the low post or get a switch, then get it, then draw two and kick. But the screeners have to remember how to get the switch and it becomes a different game in the playoffs. So the good thing is, when you're on a team as an older player, you're hoping that we don't have to run up this mountain to, to make the playoffs. So you're in a pretty good standard there. Therefore, towards the end of the season, you can kind of gear up for the playoffs in a different manner. So. But yeah, I think, look, just simplifying the game. Pick and pop, pick and roll, catch and shoot. He could play eight to 10 more years.

[B]

There are four teams, when I think of it, that makes sense for him. He could stay in la, he could go to the warriors if he wanted to play with Stephen, especially if they get Giannis. I mean, like, he could just join that team and they could have a lot of fun up there. He could go to Cleveland, obviously we're talking about it. Or the Knicks. That's always a possibility because It's New York. And I think I could see him. You know, I think Cleveland probably makes the most sense, but I could see him in any one of those four locations. And also those teams with LeBron are in a great position to compete for a championship.

[A]

So I haven't had a discussion.

[B]

If only.

[A]

I need. I won't even think about it at the end of the day, you know, I always. We always meet at the end of the season and. And see how he's feeling. So we'll see.

[B]

Rich, Jason Tatum said he can. He's considering or. It was reported that Jason Tatum is considering sitting out the year. What do you think about the situation in Boston right now?

[A]

What situation? They're second in the east, right? Third. Yeah. And then they're Rich.

[B]

Because Tatum's one of the best players in the league. He already has a championship with Brown. Brown has been the number one guy, and he's kept them in contention. If Tatum joins, you go, oh, my God. If he can really play, on the other hand, you don't want him to rush it. You know, it's. It's. There's a lot there.

[A]

No, there's nothing there. There's a lot that people are trying to make there. You know what's there? Talent at a very, very, very high level. Winners. They already won. Two guys that are still. I don't know what they. 28 and 27. 28. I don't know how old they are.

[B]

They're in their 20s, late 20s.

[A]

Stay focused. Jason and Jalen, don't let these. I'm not going to say what I want to say. Don't let people trick you out of this or make you think that someone has to be the man on the team. Hey, get in the room. If they haven't already. They're really smart guys. One went to Cal, one went to Duke. Very smart guys. It's not about money. There's no more popularity to get. Just embrace each other and try to win as much as you can. Don't get tricked out of the situation. We've seen too many guys on teams with a surmountable amount of talent. And between the media and the people around him and this idea that it has to be your team, it's neither one of their teams. It's the new owner's team. That's whose team it is. They don't own the team.

[B]

I mean, I get it, but he's still coming off injury. Does he come back?

[A]

Well, that's up to him and his team.

[B]

Is he ready to Come back? Is he going to be.

[A]

Here's what I say.

[B]

Is it important for him to come back? Because he could the Celtics somehow do it, put it all together and win it this year? Is it more important for him? Because we could see what Jalen can do, you know, without Tatum. Is it more important for tatum to be 100% so that next year you have a situation where they could maybe reel off two of the next three.

[A]

There's no way that team is better without one of the two. Whether it's with Jason and without Jalen or with Jalen without Jason. Listen, as far as coming back, I don't know. That's up to him. You know, I think that's up to the team and getting in the room with the doctors and say, okay, what's if you. If. What's the, what's the decision to be made that protects him most long term, health wise, first and foremost. Because nothing's guaranteed in a game, in a series or plot. That's first and foremost. And then as far as a basketball perspective, it's like, hey, you know, those are the adult conversations you have with the front office and the coaching staff and teammates and I'm pretty sure his teammates that welcome him with open arms. You know, I think people always. It happens with guys. Happened earlier this year. It happens when guys are out. It's like, oh, the team is doing so much better. Just stay where you at until it's not until you run into two weeks of planning from another team and now they're blitzing Jalen and denying the ball back and shifting the defense and trapping them and doing all these different things to where, oh, now we do need a Jason. So I wouldn't fall for any of that. Spend as many years you can together and as long as they willing to pay the tax and continue to keep players around them, stay right there. Because the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I can guarantee you that I have.

[B]

Some things to say about football. You ready to hear me rant about the NFL? You said I was going to rant about football.

[A]

I knew it was coming.

[B]

Finally it's been all you.

[A]

The rant is here.

[B]

All I know is boy, when you tell me time you. That's a lot of dribbling, brother.

[A]

Listen, yeah, they five second rule. The three second rule.

[B]

God, you just broke out.

[A]

Wow, the eight second rule. You'll get all those call on you in one play. The way you rant. Yes.

[B]

Only someone who just talked for a half an hour.

[A]

You asked Me, You, G, you, you. I mean, you can't talk about your time.

[B]

You ever see Half Baked? Didn't we talk about this already? You were there when he brought out the box wrap. Wrap it up, B. But here's what I'm saying to wrap it up, people.

[A]

Can you talk about your time in Cleveland outside of you getting up there saying the most outlandish things you can say for a take when you were on a different show? See, I won't allow you to do that on this show.

[B]

But are you ready for five minutes?

[A]

Sure, go ahead.

[B]

NFL rant.

[A]

Let me hold up. Let me get my clock. Let me get my clock.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, let me get my clock.

[A]

Let me get my clock. Because. And last time I spared you, you was like six minutes. But I didn't want to embarrass you in front of the audience.

[B]

Oh, no, you should stop me at 5 this time.

[A]

I won't do that.

[B]

Okay, I was about to stop you at 30, but I keep going.

[A]

This time I'm putting an alarm on so people can hear it too. Let's go. Go.

[B]

We are going into the Super Bowl.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

With two quarterbacks. One is on his rookie deal and one is a reclamation project. Neither get paid like Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen or someone like that. So a lot of people might think, well, that means that, I don't know.

[A]

What did Sam Donald. Sam Donald got paid?

[B]

What did Sam, Sam Donald didn't get Top of the market deal.

[A]

Well, no, but I'm saying he got paid. Yes, but I'm talking about at least the 25 million a year.

[B]

That's not nowadays, that's not top of the market. That's actually like a middle or upper middle class NFL contract. I'm talking about the, the, you know, NBA equivalent of the supermax. Right. The percentage, percentage of the cap that the NFL, that the, that the highest paid quarterbacks take up is so big that it has been fashionable once again to say, oh well, you gotta have a guy in a rookie deal or you got to get a reclamation project so you don't pay him at the top of the league. Right? And it seems that. So, so this is, so this is what I want to say. This is what it leads me to. As I watched Josh Allen once again not make it to the super bowl this time. His coach got fired. Right. The league is once again, it was a coaches league forever. I think partly because of what Tom Brady showed when he left Belichick and what happened to Belichick subsequently and because of the Fact that no one like Trent Dilfer has won a Super bowl in forever, it's perceived that it's more a quarterbacks league. Now for the first time ever, maybe the NFL is not a coaches league, it's a quarterbacks league. But I'm here to tell you, in fact it is a coaches league again, if it ever wasn't. And the reason is a little deeper than I think people realize. So I want you to stay with me on this one. When you get a guy like Josh Allen and you pay him at the top of the cap or the, you know, the, the, the percentage of the cap that he soaks up, the margin for error is much thinner. For example, if he gets hurt or even if just you miss on a few draft picks or even if you, if the coach get, can't get the team to the promised land because eventually the defense ages out. Look at the, look at the Buffalo Bills roster. It's not very good, right? It's getting older, it's expensive. What does Josh Allen do? He did everything he could so they fire the coach. The issue is that because that kind of guy eats up so much cap, if you don't win the super bowl, right, you stay good enough not to draft at the top of the league, you're going to be drafting near the bottom of the first round all the time. Harder to find, not impossible, but harder to find franchise changing players there. So you will tend to have an older aging roster supported by this superman quarterback or this really, really exceptional quarterback. And now you haven't won. And now the next year the same thing happens. The same thing happens. Look at what Josh Allen has around him, right? And so people will look at Darnold and Drake May and think, aha, that's the answer. Forget about paying the quarterback like that. It really speaks to the coaches. Because if you have a reclamation project like Sam Darnold, you know, it hasn't quite worked out for him in other places or a guy in his rookie contract like Drake May. What's the most important thing? The most important thing is the head coach. The most important thing is you have a coach that creates an atmosphere and can otherwise coach up your rookie or second year quarterback, your quarterback on his rookie deal. Or you have a coach who can put a veteran at this point who was once a prospect, but it didn't quite pan out, but he has the tools like Sam Darnold in a position to win, right? The head coach is extremely important. It is a coach's league. But it's not just the Head coach Rich. It's also the oc. Like once upon a time in football to me it was like the most important guy in the building is the head coach, then the quarterback. Then a lot of people say maybe the left tackle, then the right defensive end. You know, the battle on the blind side. Then maybe the wider. I think we're at a point right now where the most important building person in the building is the head coach, followed by the quarterback, followed by the oc.

[A]

Your timer went off five minutes.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Is way past five minutes.

[B]

Yeah, but you know what? You, you, you, you interrupted in the beginning a little bit.

[A]

Just wanted to prove my point. But keep going, keep going.

[B]

Put 20 seconds on the clock.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Followed by the OC. And you can see this come to play like with the Patriots. When has the Patriots defense been, or sorry, offense been really good? Even through the Tom Brady era when they had Josh McDaniels. Right. Who did you just get to be the head coach of the Browns? Monkin. Right. That means the Giants won't have and Harbaugh doesn't have his oc. That makes you think a little bit differently about the Giants. Look at la, look at the Chargers. They have their coach, their quarterback. They even have a defense. They just got an OC and Mike McDaniel and it has you looking at the whole team differently. Anyway, the point is the NFL is back to being a coaches league. That's my point.

[A]

You did all of that just to say that?

[B]

Well, that was the thesis and then I provided examples.

[A]

I'm sitting here. Took you through my logical process about something. Oh yes, Max, you're right. The OC position has become just as important as any position. Almost as important. Yeah, almost important. Any position on the team. But the Drake May aspect of it is not. I don't agree with you with that because Drake may being a rookie and this good is just the luck of the Bostonians. It has nothing to do.

[B]

Second. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

First, it's just, it's just it. I mean they better get it out the way while they can because we can see the Brinks truck getting ready to park there. And as far as Sam Darnold goes.

[B]

Getting ready. But look, they're in the super bowl because they're. Partly because you would think they're not paying him yet. But more than that, that's what everyone will say that well, they're not paying him. I agree with you. It's not about them not paying him yet. It's about the fact that they have Rabel. They have the right coach and the right OC with the right quarterback and their.

[A]

What about the rest of the talent? What do you mean? They drafted, they drafted Gonzalez, who's, who's, who's in three years became top corner. They drafted Barmore, who they paid and it's great on that defensive line. They brought in Stefon Diggs after it didn't work.

[B]

Same thing by the way. Same thing with Seattle Rich. Seattle's loaded. Everywhere you look, both sides of the ball.

[A]

This is what I'm saying. So I think it's more so about talent evaluating and having great talent evaluation paired with coaches, paired with culture.

[B]

But if, but if you're identifying the single biggest factor, my point is that, that yes, identifying the talent and all that stuff is important. You need, you can't. The quarterback and the head coach can't do it by themselves. But the, because the days of Trent Dilfer are over. You need that dude at quarterback. And if you can find that dude at quarterback without paying a premium, that's great. But whether or not you pay a premium, he needs to have the right head coach and the right OC and if you have those things, you can win with a reclamation project like Sam Darnold or a quarterback in his second year like Drake.

[A]

These words in the days of Trent D. Why are you disrespecting these guys? Trent Dilfer is a Super bowl winning quarterback.

[B]

That's my point. He's a Super bowl winning quarterback, but he wasn't one of those guys. You're not going to start the season with Trent Dilfer and be like, oh great, we're, we have it locked down at quarterback. But the, the, you need a special kind of guy at quarterback nowadays.

[A]

Let me ask you a question.

[B]

Every single year.

[A]

Let me ask you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who was the point guard when The Lakers won in 02?

[B]

Derek Fisher.

[A]

Okay. You wouldn't probably Derek Fisher.

[B]

That's not the quarterback. Number one and number two in a Phil Jackson offense.

[A]

So you can't have it every which way.

[B]

I'm taking one guard is really kind of just.

[A]

The point I'm trying to make is.

[B]

Shoot.

[A]

The three point I'm trying to make is. You keep talking about that dude. You know what? You can keep that dude and give me him. Derek Fisher, who, when it, when, when the game is on the line, he's going to hit the open shot, he's going to make the right basketball play and he's going to defend. He's going to embrace a role and I'm going to win if he's playing.

[B]

To Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. Yes, but it's different in the NFL. But my point is, in the NFL, your quarterback has to be Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. You can't win in the NFL with Derek F. Quarterback anymore.

[A]

Flo was neither one of those guys he wanted to see.

[B]

You're going back to the Trent Thord days. That's my point. You're proving my point. You got to go back 20 years already.

[A]

That is not true. That is not true.

[B]

Look at the quarterbacks who've won recently. Is. Is Jaylen Herz just a guy?

[A]

Jaylen hurts.

[B]

Is he just a guy?

[A]

No.

[B]

Like, let me ask you, he's that dude.

[A]

Did Mark Ripken go to the Super Bowl?

[B]

I'm talking about in the last 20 years or so. I'm just saying, post Trent Dilfer.

[A]

Can we move on? Because I am a real sports guy. You are a somewhat real sports guy.

[B]

I'm a sports fan.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Listen, you can go listen to everyone else and what they will tell you is that look at the quarterback who doesn't get paid. And that's the key to everything. And my point, look at who's playing in the Super Bowl. Right. And you can't pay him at the top of the market. And my point is really what that's about is the coaching, is the importance of the coaching, the head coach and the OC and that's what the league is.

[A]

It's about the team. And speaking of coaching out loud, over crying out loud, speaking of coaching, I believe in monking, just so you know.

[B]

Yeah. Why?

[A]

Because I believe he's just going to be, again, super detailed. He's going to hold guys accountable. He's going to bring some staff members with him from the culture he just left. And I believe this is the beginning of us turning this thing around.

[B]

Yeah, I believe that Monkin, too, is my oc. Like, I wanted Harbaugh to bring with him what he wanted, but. All right, you got Monk Duncan, you've been talking a lot recently about the signature shoe business, right? Like you've been bringing it up on the pod. So I was thinking maybe this would be a good chance to talk about, for you to explain to people how that business actually works.

[A]

The signature shoe business or the shoe business? Well, one and the same.

[B]

You talk about signature shoes a lot.

[A]

Yeah, well, look, the signature shoe business has been up and down, I would probably think. But how it works is, well, first of all, shoe deals, just in general, most people think shoe deals are like basketball deals or like they're actually sports marketing deals within the realm of the basketball ecosystem for a basketball player, if that makes sense. Like they come from a sports marketing budget. And very few players get, quote unquote, a signature shoe. There has been more players than ever getting a signature shoe lately. But I don't really know the real reasoning behind that outside of there's just a lot more shoe companies in the market now willing to do that. It used to be a time where you had to work yourself into that. Very few players come into the league in year one and have a signature shoe. And it actually takes about 18 months. What used to. Maybe they expedite a little bit less now, but it used to take about 18 months to actually get the actual finished product of the shoe. But if you do get a signature shoe and you want to maintain that signature shoe positioning, then that's where the business comes into play. A signature shoe is placed because the company feels as if they can build a business within the business. With. With this athlete, there's a lot of responsibility that comes with that. Some people think if I have a logo and that's on my shoe, then that's the signature shoe. That's not true. That's what you call a pe, like a player addition. So if you make. Some shoe companies are different than others. But most shoe companies, if you get to the point to where you are consecutive all star or all NBA player, it then takes you to the place of you can have a pe, what they call a pe, which you get your logo on a silhouette that the company is pushing. A signature shoe is literally your shoe. This model of the shoe is tied to that athlete. And then the way the contract is structured, you get a royalty after your base salary for the performance of that business. There's a domestic royalty and there's an international royalty, if you get that far. Most signature shoe guys, in the summertime, they have to take this international trip from a marketing perspective because obviously you're trying to grow the business from a global perspective. So you have your North America numbers and then you have your. Your Asia Pacific numbers, right? And then you have your UK numbers, et cetera. And all that's kind of combined to create the signature business. But. But that takes a lot of maintaining. The other thing is, if I asked you, Max, I said, Max, when you see shoe deals come out, what is your initial thought? Do you think shoe deals are. You think most shoe deals are fully guaranteed, right?

[B]

Yeah, I would think he signs a contract for a lot of money up front. X number of Years, et cetera, et cetera.

[A]

And it's all go, it's all guaranteed.

[B]

I don't know if it's all guaranteed, but. Yeah, but there's a big chunk of cash. The average person would think that it's got cash.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, but it's not. Shoe deals are pay for play. They're prorated. So you have to play a certain amount of games to get that actual number. If you play less games, then your pay is docked. If you miss a whole season, then forget about it.

[B]

So actually with that kind of financial incentive, it's more surprising that guys, this kind of plays into what LeBron said recently about it's harder to play 82 games now than it used to be, which I think is probably true. But it, but, but like the idea that, I mean players are highly incentivized in that case star players to play as much as possible, actually.

[A]

Yes, but if, I mean, if you injured, you injured. Just, just, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. And so, so coming into the league max is when a player has his highest potential. Trading card deals, shoe deals, et cetera. Because no one has actually seen you perform in the NBA. Your potential comes from what you did in high school, what you did in college, et cetera. And then once you get into the NBA, normally what you do over the course of three to five years would then position you for a signature shoe. There's only been, there's been very few guys have a signature shoe coming in, like very few, at least at the, the brands that matter. So when you start to see guys lose signature shoe deals, it's because there was no real business there. And what happens is the brand decides, you know what, we're going to go away. Because if you're a signature guy, they have to commit a X amount of a marketing spin for you. Print, commercial, international trip product being made. And if it's not selling, then you know, it puts the company in a tough spot. So you start to see guys drop off and just in shoe deals, period. Like when I first got into the business, if you had a first round pick, you were getting a six figure, I mean, I'm sorry, a seven figure shoe deal, no question about it. That's changed. That definitely isn't the same anymore. And so, and then once you're in the league, you kind of kept your shoe deal and the number kind of kept consistent for some time now that's also changed. You know, guys are going from getting paid X amount to just what they call a merch bonus deal. And a merch bonus deal means we give you product, which is money in a sense, but it's product. It's not money in your pocket. And then there's a performance incentivized incentives on the back of that of that product deal. So maybe you come home with 25,050 grand, whatever the case may be, depending on how it's structured. But the signature shoe business is not what it once was. And obviously, I always talk about the fact that I get the fact that guys should want to have a signature shoe. And once you get a signature shoe, it's a lot of responsibility on the athlete to lean into to the brand. You have to really be a partner. You have to show up, you have to perform and produce on the court. You have to lean into your deliverables off the court. And it's a lot. It's a lot. So I know everyone wants it, but it's a lot that comes with it. And what happens is, you know, the brands have to get lucky to pick the right partner. Age matters, performance matters, style of play matters, price point matters, market matters. For the most part, all those things matter. So for guys that do have signature shoe businesses, and if their businesses is in excess of $100 million and have an opportunity to grow it, man, that's when you really need the infrastructure around you and the strategy around you and the expertise around you.

[B]

So. So let's pick up the pace here, Rich.

[A]

No, we got to do the rundown. Let's go.

[B]

Okay. Shador Sanders shouldn't listen. Here's the rundown. Shador Sanders shouldn't listen to Todd Monkin. This is from Emmanuel Acho said this. What do you think about. I mean, because what is Monkin done right? I don't know. I mean, if you're Shador Sanders and you're Monkin, you really do need each other. I. I think that what the. What the Ravens with Baltimore had been credited for, and a lot of this went to Harbaugh, but you imagine it applies to his OC is that they work with what they have. Shador Sanders is very different from Lamar Jackson. But in that case, if you have an OC who's willing to not try to fit a square peg into a round hole. Great.

[A]

Max.

[B]

You know, I. I don't.

[A]

This is.

[B]

What do you think of the take that Shador Sanders shouldn't. What's that?

[A]

And I'm not. It's very simple. He's the coach. Shadow is a player. Listen to the coach.

[B]

That's it. That's your take. You know, Rich, sometimes you have to explain, expound on a take. No, I'm just kidding. I just. All right, listen.

[A]

You expand. He's the coach.

[B]

I. Yeah, right.

[A]

Why is a player. We're not listening to the coach.

[B]

Well, I mean, Shador Sanders came across. These weren't his coaches, but in interviews with teams, many teams seemed to feel that he was a bit headstrong and thinking he had done something he hadn't yet done.

[A]

That was the impression that he was raised right. He's a legend and has had plenty of coaches. There's no chance of that.

[B]

Okay. Is there a favorite in the NBA this year? Playoffs?

[A]

You would think it's okc, but it's. It. It does seem pretty wide open. I mean, I watch a lot of games, and there's a lot of teams that seemed as if they are one to one and a half moves away from really positioning themselves. That's why you would think that coming up on the deadline, people would be aggressive and active, but I don't know. But it. Obviously, you have to respect okc. They won last year, and they're still leading the Western Conference, but it just seems to be.

[B]

Look, and they're one of the reasons that last year they seem to benefit. They certainly benefited from injury in the finals because Halliburton went down and in a close game in game seven, and then, you know, they pull away. And then this year, certain there have been injuries around league, but they've also suffered injuries. Okc. And because they're deep, they're better able to withstand them. I think it is. You're right. They are. They should be correctly favored. However, it's not one of those seasons where you go, oh, this team is obviously going to win, or it's going to come down to these two teams. It feels wider open than it has in a long time.

[A]

It does. It does. I agree with that.

[B]

Yeah. Jason tight. Sorry. Jaylon tyson after. Because LeBron was fetted. Feted, everybody. Which means celebrated in a way in Cleveland. On the. In the post game, Jaylon Tyson comes into Donovan Mitchell's interview and says that Cleveland is Donovan Mitchell's city now, which, you know, puts Donovan Mitchell kind of in a tough spot. I thought, you know, like, I. I get why. On the one hand you're, like, happy that your teammate is going to say something good about you. On the other hand, like, come on, man, don't do that. To me, it's like the day that LeBron gets celebrated and. And. And now it's kind of coming across like I am, like, sometimes I'll say something on this show, Rich, and you are like, oh, you want to make it very clear that you didn't say that. I did. Yeah, because people will report that you said it. And if I were Donovan Mitchell there, I would feel this. I would feel like that. Like, hold on, everybody. I didn't just say that.

[A]

Yeah, but you know what? Look, you have to. I know his intent. His intent was. I'm just coming off a battle we won. I played well. You know, this is. This is the premier guy on this team. He's my teammate. You know, and a lot of that has to do with society today and how they judge everything people do in terms of. If he says the opposite, then it's like he's riding the jock of somebody that's not on his team.

[B]

No, you could say something like, he volunteered it. He came onto camera and said it about jock. You might say something like, look, LeBron's time was incredible, what he did, blah, blah, blah.

[A]

Yes, but that takes a.

[B]

But now we're trying to get something done.

[A]

Yeah, but that takes a. He's a young player in the league.

[B]

I don't think he meant clumsily any.

[A]

Yes, I don't think he meant any malice. You know, he's, he's, he's being, you know, coming off of a very, you know, he's probably one years old. When the guy was in. Was drafted or playing in the league, he probably watched him play his whole.

[B]

He's just trying to support his teammate. He's trying to support his teammate. That's all that is. Yeah, but it came out a little sideways.

[A]

And you know what? And he corrected it and the fact that he was willing to do that shows exactly who I already knew he was, which is a really solid guy, comes from a solid family, and so you can move on with that.

[B]

I mentioned earlier that LeBron said it's harder to play 82 games now than it was back in the day.

[A]

Look, if anybody can talk about the toll that it takes on a body, he should be the foremost expert person for that. He should be the Billy Dee Williams of. Of. Of. Of body toll as it pertains to. Yeah. Playing a.

[B]

Guys, LeBron was not a 60 game a year player. He was a 70 plus game a year player. Which in like, in baseball, that would be like when I was a kid, if you played at least 150 games, man, that was a full C. Even 100 high 140s. You played a full season definitely in the 150s out of 162. Nowadays in the NBA, if you play 70 or more games, you've played a full season.

[A]

And I don't. And I don't know, like, how they define eras. If it's like how many years versus that makes it an era per se. But when you talk about how many different styles of play he's played in, in terms of when he came into the league and then all the way throughout, and then up to now, the game has changed several different times in terms of pace, style, you know, positions on the floor, two bigs to small ball, four stretch, five, this, that, the third, whatever. So. But yeah, I think he. If anybody can speak about it, he's been remarkably durable.

[B]

Like, he's played 20, 23 years and counting and usually a full season.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't think he has an ulterior motive trying to. Because, like, when people see 82 and.

[A]

Players didn't come up with the load management. I know players get all the discourse for load management, but people have to remember players did not come up with the idea of load management analytics and teams came up with the idea of load management. So.

[B]

And by the way, it's every sport, Rich. Like, in every sport. And the reason is, like, baseball, pitchers and I preferred the old way. Used to pitch, if you pitched six innings, you did okay. You really wanted your pitcher to pitch more than six and two thirds, seven and a third, at least something like that. And nowadays if they pitch four and two thirds, you're like, okay, we got a decent five and a third inning, you got a decent cause because they're throwing 100 miles an hour every pitch. Like, there's just more strain on the body when everyone's playing more intensely.

[A]

And some cases is very smart because again, it's smart for those that actually need it. Now, if your team won seven games and you got players load managing, then that's where it gets a little crazy. But, you know, so. Okay.

[B]

Rich, I think we've come to the end of the show today, but before we go, you have a watch story.

[A]

I don't have a watch story.

[B]

You do.

[A]

Oh, oh, you do have a story. Yes, you do.

[B]

I get texts from you linking to stuff and then cryptic messages.

[A]

No, no, no. I know what you're talking about.

[B]

What does he mean by that?

[A]

That was on Mellow's pot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah. Well, first of all, I want to give shout out to my man Novak, because Djokovic yes, because that, that reporter got up on that, that in that press conference and tried to act like he wasn't a real guy and he was chasing somebody and he was never chased. And then in true Djokovic fashion, he wins. So I wanna give a shout out to him. And what's that have to do with that situation? It's just giving the game, Max. Like the game was given to me. And I think that it's not a matter of. You're talking about what Tyl spoke about on Melo's pod, about.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, that was a true story. That was a true story. But it wasn't like what I said to. I just said to him.

[B]

Can you repeat what you told him?

[A]

Yeah, I was expressing to him that you can wear whatever you want to wear. It's one thing to be uneducated on it. It's another thing to be educated and still decide to, to do whatever you want to do. You're a grown man, you can wear whatever you want to wear. But if you're asking me what my advice would be or what insight could I give you? Material things for the most part are already depreciating assets. So if you're going to buy material things, at least buy right in the realm of the material things. In this case, it was what we call a bust down watch, which is a watch that came a certain way and then you manufactured it in a different capacity that did not come from the actual manufacturer. You used another jeweler to place these things inside of this watch. That to me is just something that if I can give you advice on, I wouldn't say you should do that in excess now if you want to have one out.

[B]

A watch.

[A]

Yeah, if you want to. Well, you can bling it out. Just make sure it comes from the factory. We all like diamonds.

[B]

Just make sure they're factory, don't aftermarket bling out.

[A]

Yeah, because. Because now you're going to lose the value tremendously. Right. And for some cases you may lose it just anyway on the initial purchase. But definitely when you do that, you're going to lose it. But it was less about the watch, it was more about just understanding this. Because if you can understand it, if you can understand this situation, when you get in another situation that may be totally separate from a watch this time it may be an investment or it may be a home. And the materials in that, it's just giving you the insight that I have. Not that I know everything, because I don't. But at the end of the day, I Just like to give the game. The game was given to me.

[B]

My.

[A]

The people in my community gave me the game. Good, bad or indifferent, I was given the game. And so when you're given the game, you have to give it forward. So that's what I do.

[B]

Well, that's very generous of you. Yeah. That's all Rich. Have a great weekend.

[A]

You're not here this weekend.

[B]

I'm going to be back.

[A]

Tell your daughter happy birthday.

[B]

I will.

[A]

Happy birthday.

[B]

She's 11 today. My youngest is 11 today. Well, absolutely.

[A]

That just tells me you have no control in the house, which is fine. I've been there.

[B]

By the way. Got a fight. Got. There's a big fight. Shakur and Teo at the.

[A]

I saw that and I saw that press conference. What was said? I didn't like that.

[B]

And then. What part didn't you like?

[A]

What he said. It was just kind of crazy to say that to him.

[B]

Yeah, they're promoting a fight.

[A]

You know, I know that was. That's a little too strong for me.

[B]

But. But Teofimo, Lopez and Shakur is going to be a high level chess match. Madison Square Garden, it's sold out. And then I got to go do Zufa boxing to our second card on. So we. Great card. Top to bottom, like action fights. Top to bottom, up and coming fighters. And that's on Sunday. And then I'll be back on Monday.

[A]

Just make sure that. Make sure Dean gets you some. Some new, new balances because you have to learn how to do this line dance when you get back here.

[B]

Oh, we're doing it on Monday. Yeah.

[A]

You might not. Maybe not Monday. I gotta either ask my daughter or maybe I'll even ask Vanna to teach us how to do this line dance. But. And I wanna get the content from this too.

[B]

The TikTok thing. What is this?

[A]

It's not a TikTok thing. I just wanna see. You know, I was listening to Lucy Pearl. You should listen to it. It's called you. Yeah, and you should YouTube it and see the other people that's doing the lion dance. So when you get here.

[B]

So I gotta get a little head start. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you.

[A]

Yeah, that's how we do it.

[B]

Have a great weekend and I will see you on Monday.

[A]

You know what I'm doing?

[B]

What are you doing?

[A]

Trade deadline.

[B]

Yeah, you're working. Trade and golf. Yeah, you're working and then you're playing golf is the real reason you're in LA right now. It's not the trade deadline. It's golf? No.

[A]

I could be anywhere for the trade deadline. What do you mean?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You're golfing.

[B]

You and me should go and and get a golf lesson together. We could use it for content.

[A]

I'm ready whenever you want to.

[B]

The only golf I my friend about six months ago, a friend of mine showed me Jason Aaron Shout out showed me at a golf range as like just like not even a range, you know, just hitting off the tee, just like the grip and how to swing and stuff. And that's the only time I ever hit a golf ball.

[A]

Okay. Whenever you want to go, I'm ready.

[B]

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[A]

Hi, it's victor headman from the tampa bay lightning. The NHL stadium series is coming to the sunshine state. Watch as we take on the boston bruins in the 2026 NHL stadium series in tampa. Catch all the action on Sunday, february 1st on espn. Visit NHL.com stadium series for tickets and more information. That's NHL.com stadiumseries and I'll see you february 1st.