Luka Injured. Plus: Is Memphis a Desirable NBA City? And Has College Hoops Lost its Swag? | Game Over

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode Title: Luka Injured. Plus: Is Memphis a Desirable NBA City? And Has College Hoops Lost its Swag?
Date: April 3, 2026
Host: The Ringer

---

Episode Overview

In this milestone 50th episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul (with Rich Kleiman as guest) engage in lively, unfiltered discussions spanning NBA injuries and coaching decisions, NBA city rankings (with Memphis squarely in the crosshairs), the evolving cultural relevance of MLB and college basketball, plus branding and "taste" in sports, music, and business. Regular features include “Get Rich Quick” advice, emails from listeners, and plenty of witty banter.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Taste? (00:45–11:54)

• Fashion, Origins, & Value of Experience
  • The hosts reminisce about childhood experiences buying sneakers and the importance of life experience over wealth in developing “taste.”
  • Quote: “I think what adds to taste more than anything is life experiences because you need those influences… you learn more by being around things that maybe you had interest in, maybe you didn't, but it allowed me to evolve from a know-how perspective.” – Rich Kleiman (03:29)
• Cultural Context of Taste
  • Discussion about how “taste” is viewed by dominant culture versus subcultures; context as an essential component.
  • Quote: “Taste is about context.” – Max Kellerman (08:05)
• Scaling Taste in Business
  • Maintaining a tasteful brand becomes harder as companies scale. The example of the "Social Network" and the importance of editorial judgment in taste.
  • Quote: “From a business perspective, the more you scale, the harder it is to maintain taste.” – Kleiman (09:39)

---

2. Luka Doncic Injury & Lakers Coaching Decisions (14:02–22:18)

• The Injury Event
  • Luka injures his hamstring in a blowout loss. Max critiques coach JJ Redick’s decision to leave Luka in the game.
  • Quote: “If it were up to me, Luka wouldn’t be in that game. In the second half, once he tweaks his hamstring… Sit Luka.” – Max Kellerman (15:56)
• Coaching Dilemmas
  • The hosts empathize with the difficult in-the-moment coaching decisions, drawing parallels to Derrick Rose’s infamous injury under Thibodeau.
  • Quote: “It’s a tough spot to be as a coach… it’s a collective, right? You have to get the information from the medical team.” – Rich Kleiman (16:40)
• Long-Term Implications
  • Concern over length of Luka’s recovery and Lakers’ playoff prospects.

Timestamp Highlights

• Luka injury fallout – 14:02–19:32

---

3. Western Conference Power Rankings & Depth (22:18–30:31)

• Gap Between Contenders and Pretenders
  • Thunder, Spurs, and Nuggets labeled as the only true contenders—with a significant gap (“space, space, space, return, return, return...”) before the rest.
  • Quote: “There’s a gap in the Western Conference, despite what the seedings look like.” – Rich Kleiman (23:37)
• Team-by-Team Breakdowns
  • Thunder praised for depth, IQ, versatility—no glaring weaknesses.
  • Spurs’ young core and defensive prowess highlighted; parallels drawn to past dynasties.
• The Value of Team Building
  • Nuggets’ resilience tied to Jokic’s unique impact.

Timestamp Highlights

• Thunder, Spurs, Nuggets analysis – 22:18–28:56

---

4. Get Rich Quick: “Be the Part, Don’t Play the Part” (30:31–33:48)

• Message to Young Professionals
  • The value of building experience and resilience rather than chasing titles or external signals of success.
  • Quote: “You can't really skip steps in life about certain things… all these people, you want to be in these positions, but I think you need these experiences to mold you to really become good at your job.” – Rich Kleiman (31:01)
• The Myth of Titles Versus True Process
  • Skip the optics, don’t skip the grind.

---

5. MVP Race: Shai, Jokic, or Wemby? (34:51–39:27)

• Arguments For & Against
  • Shea Gilgeous-Alexander’s case: two-way play, games played, clutch factor.
  • Jokic’s case: absolute value, making teammates better.
  • Wemby’s case: historic individual impact despite fewer games.
• Flaws in MVP Criteria
  • Debate over “team award” vs “most valuable.”
  • Quote: “They’re turning [the MVP] back into a team award.” – Max Kellerman (38:50)
  • Quote: “This is the toughest year to pick an MVP or one of the toughest years in a long time to pick the MVP.” – Rich Kleiman (38:07)

---

6. Is Memphis a Desirable NBA City? (43:04–58:56)

• LeBron’s Viral Comments
  • Audio of LeBron essentially saying he’d rather play anywhere but Memphis, re-igniting debates over NBA city desirability.
  • Quote: “Doesn't look like LeBron's going to be on the Grizzlies anytime soon.” – Rich Kleiman (43:36)
• NBA Players’ City Preferences
  • Discussion of NBA team travel, hotel choices, and why certain cities (Memphis among them) are less popular.
  • Socio-economic undertones: difference in public perception when players (labor) want luxury vs. “owners.”
• No Malice, Just Honest Preferences
  • Max and Rich point out: not everyone wants to be anywhere—including LA or New York. Real talk about why players dislike Memphis is as much about amenities and travel as anything else.

Memorable Moment

• Max’s hotel story in Memphis: “I open the curtains and I’m looking right down at the front desk… I just wanted a steak, and she sent me to Steak and Ale instead of Ruth’s Chris!” (46:20–48:50)

---

7. MLB’s Cultural Relevance and Swag in College Basketball (58:57–67:39)

• MLB’s Declining Cool Factor
  • Despite economic resurgence, baseball struggles with cultural cachet, especially with youth.
  • Quote: “MLB used to have swag. They lost it.” – Rich Kleiman (64:24)
• Possible Solutions
  • Expansion to Latin American markets suggested.
• College Hoops ‘Swag’ Debate
  • Rich: “I think college basketball lost its swag.”
  • Max: NIL may bring some back, but the era of the Fab Five brought aesthetic and cultural excitement that’s hard to replicate.
  • Quote: “All these little things… design of uniforms… that made you even more interested.” – Rich Kleiman (67:39)

---

8. Final Four Weekend & College Basketball Dynasties (71:01–75:55)

• UConn’s Historic Run
  • UConn men going for a third title in four years—the first since John Wooden-era UCLA.
  • Debate over adjusting standards of greatness to the modern era, both in college and pro sports.
  • Quote: “If Dan Hurley, in this day and age wins three out of four national titles, that surpasses to me… anybody.” – Max Kellerman (73:04)
• Draft Stock Talk
  • Caleb Wilson and Acuff discussed as top picks.
  • UConn, if successful, poised to be the greatest basketball institution across men’s and women’s games.

---

9. Listener Emails (77:45–86:48)

• Worst NBA Trades
  • Clippers’ trade sending Shai Gilgeous-Alexander to OKC declared the worst by both.
  • Patience, culture, and team-building emphasized over star accumulation.
• Rap Lyricism & Eminem
  • Max’s four MCs “masters of the words”: Eminem, Jay-Z, Lil Wayne, Drake.
  • Acknowledgement that “favorite” ≠ “best”; the subjective nature of musical taste.
  • Quote: “They make the words do what they want—Eminem is one of them.” – Max Kellerman (84:54)

---

10. Memorable Moments & Sign-Off

• 50th Episode Donut Celebration (88:08)
  • Donuts arrive in-studio; hosts reminisce about bakery memories.
  • Quote: “Now this is how you end the show.” – Rich Kleiman (89:21)
• Playful Banter
  • Max jokes about aging, healthy eating, “silver squirrel” status, and the duo’s shared music roots.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• On Taste & Experience
  “I think what adds to taste more than anything is life experiences…” – Rich Kleiman (03:29)
• On Luka’s Injury
  “If it were up to me, Luka wouldn’t be in that game.” – Max Kellerman (15:56)
• On the Western Conference
  “There’s a gap in the Western Conference, despite what the seedings look like.” – Rich Kleiman (23:37)
• On Skipping Steps
  “You can't really skip steps in life about certain things…” – Rich Kleiman (31:01)
• On MVP Criteria
  “They’re turning [the MVP] back into a team award.” – Max Kellerman (38:50)
• On NBA Player Travel
  “NBA players do not stay in the Hyatt…” – Rich Kleiman (49:49)
• On MLB & NBA’s Cultural Clash
  “MLB used to have swag. They lost it.” – Rich Kleiman (64:24)
• On UConn’s Place in History
  “If Dan Hurley, in this day and age wins three out of four national titles, that surpasses to me… anybody.” – Max Kellerman (73:04)
• On Lyricists in Rap
  “They make the words do what they want—Eminem is one of them.” – Max Kellerman (84:54)

---

Timestamps by Topic

• Taste & Experience: 00:45–11:54
• Luka Doncic Injury: 14:02–22:18
• Western Conference Contenders: 22:18–30:31
• Get Rich Quick: 30:31–33:48
• MVP Debate: 34:51–39:27
• Memphis as NBA City: 43:04–58:56
• MLB and College Hoops Swag: 58:57–67:39
• Final Four/Dynasties: 71:01–75:55
• Emails (Trades, Music): 77:45–86:48
• Donut Celebration/sign-off: 88:08–89:21

---

Tone & Style

The episode is vibrant, candid, and conversational. Rich Kleiman brings streetwise anecdotes and business wisdom, while Max is sharply analytical and humorous. The entire conversation effortlessly blends sports analysis, cultural critique, nostalgia, and humor—creating a must-listen for sports fans and pop culture enthusiasts alike.

---

For Those Who Haven’t Listened

This 50th episode encapsulates what makes Game Over a standout sports podcast: sharp, informed debate, inside stories from sports and music, cultural criticism, and signature humor. If you want takes beyond box scores—covering everything from hamstring injuries to how donuts and branding shape legacies—this is a comprehensive, entertaining listen.

Transcript

[Max Kellerman]

This episode is brought to you by Loom. When your calendar is all status meetings and your teams are still misaligned, it's easy to feel stuck. Get your org unstuck with Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian. Record a Loom to share priorities, feedback, and key decisions. AI makes video editing one click and adds instant summaries so everyone from direct reports to partner teams gets clarity in minutes, not meetings. With Loom, teams stay aligned and focus on work that matters. It's a team changer. Try loom [e-mail].

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, first of all, who makes that shirt?

[Max Kellerman]

Who do you think? You know everything.

[Rich Kleiman]

I know who it is.

[Max Kellerman]

You know everything.

[Rich Kleiman]

I just wanted to see if you don't lie to me or not.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, this is Ralph Lauren. Yeah, I know it is springtime spring shirt. I know who makes that.

[Rich Kleiman]

Guess who makes it.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm gonna guess that it.

[Rich Kleiman]

Of course, I took it old school today.

[Max Kellerman]

Max. That's early 90s.

[Rich Kleiman]

Early 90s, yeah. It's coming back, though. This is. This is. Brings me back to my childhood. We used. I used to play. I played muni football for the Sims Raiders, right? And every year we would go to Orlando or Daytona beach to play in what they called the Soyza championship. So you would get there, you would check it to the hotel, and you. You would. Had to. If you had money, you had to give it to this lady named Ms. Riff. She was the best. Ms. Riff, she was like the treasurer, and she would have your name on there, and your parents would say how much money you would get. Now, obviously, you know, my money is in my pocket. I gave Ms. Riff the stash. Yeah. Yeah. So. But what would happen is, long story short, we would play, and then coming home, we would stop at the outlets because this is the first time I ever seen outlet malls. But then they would. I would pay the coach. I would pay one of my coaches because they would have a rental car.

[Max Kellerman]

I would say, go get the kicks.

[Rich Kleiman]

Take me to the mall. Because the Jordans would come out around that time. It was always around Thanksgiving. And then you had a girlfriend or something. So I would get a Dooney and Bourke or buy the get. They had the guest.

[Max Kellerman]

How old were you?

[Rich Kleiman]

I was 11, 12, 13. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. See that guy? Being a successful business person is not surprising. You could see initiative and entrepreneurial sensibility from a very young age.

[Rich Kleiman]

I don't know what made me think about these things, but I used to tell all my, you know, little friends or whatever, we used to. And I used to kind of orchestrate this whole thing. So guess meant a lot to me. Do you come home and, you know, whatever. But no, but Max, I was thinking about something led me to something. Taste versus money.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's an age. Old age, old issue. Right. This is why old money, a lot of times doesn't like new money. Because if new money comes without cultural sensibilities or with different cultural sensibilities, Right. Then old money looks and goes. Doesn't have taste. You know, you can have all the resources in the world, but if you don't have the sensibilities in terms of how to deploy them, you know, that, that, that shows up in terms of aesthetic sensibilities. You know, you look and you go, yeah, that person is paid, but they

[Rich Kleiman]

don't know what to do with it right now. Do you now when you talk about. I think when you talk about money, people think automatically rich or you have to be super wealthy. I don't necessarily believe that to have taste. I think what adds to taste more than anything is life experiences because you need those influences. And I growing up, I used to think, oh, if we go, if we go all the way, if you have to go overseas, it costs you a ton of money. Well, actually, it costs you just as much money to go overseas as it does to Houston.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Right here. Oh, we had to take a small break for Just for Men commercial, but

[Max Kellerman]

never that. Never that. I've been approached. I've been approached by someone who I won't mention who. You would know the name. You would know that they were coming out for, like, hair coloring for men. They wanted me to be the white dude, but I'm like, I would never. I would. Because, you know, you'd have the product for a different.

[Rich Kleiman]

Was it Fat Joe? Did he want you on the box?

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not going to say yes and I'm not going to say no.

[Rich Kleiman]

It was Fat Joe.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not saying yes. I'm not saying no.

[Rich Kleiman]

I nailed it.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not. I will not reveal the identity. If I say no, then you could go through the other 7,999,000,000 etc people in the world. Okay, I will say this. Never, never going to do it. Never color my hair.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, but you get your hair fit fixed on the show more than anybody ever seen.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, the problem is, as you go gray, the white hairs are, like, wiry. So they'll stick out in weird ways. That's what I'm learning. So can you get like a bunch

[Rich Kleiman]

of those pick up, like YouTube channels?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. All of a sudden I'm hearing radio, UHF.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, but what I was saying was like, I think people over, not overthink the money aspect of it and, and don't, don't recognize the life experience part of it. Because just in my own life experience, I've learned more by being around things that maybe I had interest in, maybe I didn't, but it allowed me to, to evolve from a know how perspective. Cause I think that's how you gain your know how. But taste. I learned the taste of things from. Even though we didn't have much still from my mom, my sister, certain people in my neighborhood. Because I would just pick up on little things that I didn't know it then, but that was really tasteful. You know, like the simple.

[Max Kellerman]

See what. I think what you're talking about is related to. It's actually related. You could see this and you could see this in literature, right? Like if you talk to educated people. Well, it's great that kids are reading Harry Potter. No, it's not actually, because books aren't about anything. It's not, it's not actually good literature for kids. Because knowing how to read is not simply reading the words, it's understanding the story in the context of, you know, Western civilization, let's say, in America. Right. And so that involves knowing what came before and what was important. And authors are having a conversation with authors that came before them. Right. Sometimes in a novel or something, there's a response to some idea from a previous novel or an illusion, or, or they're referring to something that happened in the past. In other words, culture doesn't just appear in a vacuum. It is related to what came before it. Right?

[Rich Kleiman]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

So when you talk about taste, even in something like fashion. Right. And the irony will be some people might look at you or me especially, you have a label splashed across the front of your chest and say, that's not tasteful. Because from the dominant culture's point of view, which is from Western Europe, it's. It's not.

[Rich Kleiman]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

However, from a culture that you came from. Right. And that is the dominant youth culture in this country. Right. It certainly affected me growing up being from New York, that it is tasteful. That doesn't mean that anything splashed across your chest is tasteful, but some things are. Cause in this case, it's not just that it says what it says across your chest, it's that it refers back to the early 90s. Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Or a time in my life.

[Max Kellerman]

Or at a time in your life. That's Meaningful to you.

[Rich Kleiman]

But I get that part of it.

[Max Kellerman]

Taste is about context.

[Rich Kleiman]

It is. The other day, I was getting ready to go to a game, and I had on tims and jeans and a hat. And honestly, I was like, you know what? I feel kind of young in this. So I changed the boot to like a moccasin, like my Timberland moccasin, and I changed into a different type of hat, and it just elevated the look. But again, that's understanding and having that feel. Now, sometimes I may want to put my timbs on. If I want to, I will. But for that specific thing, I decided to do something different. But in anything. In comedy, knowing what's funny, it costs you no money. But knowing what's funny, of course, in comedy, you have taste in that. In fashion, knowing what looks this way versus that way, you have taste in it. Even if you just like a. A basketball evaluator, you can have taste in understanding how to evaluate talent, so on and so forth. So I was just thinking about that. But it does. It doesn't take money to have taste.

[Max Kellerman]

You have cultivated a brand with clutch and everything that is. That is. You know, and this go. This. This has to do with branding, Right? Like, do you want. Is it tasteful to the point that someone wants to be associated with it? Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And that takes. That's a. That takes cultivation. That takes making a lot of decisions. Yes, I want to be, you know, involved in this. No, I don't want to be involved in that.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, from a business perspective, the more you scale, the harder it is to maintain taste. Because as you add people, they may not necessarily come with that tasteful mindset. So you have to continue to hammer that home. No, no, no. This is why. This is why. This is why. And this happens. And we do this like, nope, we're not doing it that way. We have to do it this way.

[Max Kellerman]

What was the Facebook.

[Rich Kleiman]

Because most companies don't care about taste and brand.

[Max Kellerman]

What was the Facebook movie called?

[Rich Kleiman]

What?

[Max Kellerman]

Facebook was the Zuckerberg the movie.

[Rich Kleiman]

Oh, it was called the Social Network.

[Max Kellerman]

Social Network, yes. Is even something like that. Right. He cuts his guy out because his guy wanted to sell advertising and he felt. And really that came to. That was an issue of taste and branding, Right? No, that's going to make us look cheap and bad. I'm doing something else.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, his guy wasn't wrong because obviously they end up selling. It was just too soon in the process.

[Max Kellerman]

But that has to do with. That's an editorial. Like, you're talking about exercising editorial Judgment. Right. That has to do with your clothing. That has to do with everything, what you involve yourself in.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah. So that associated with that was all. And when I said, don't take money, what made you think.

[Max Kellerman]

What made you think of taste?

[Rich Kleiman]

I mean. Well, last night I went to a great restaurant.

[Max Kellerman]

All right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Corridor 109, which is great. We'll go. We should go. Dean was jealous. We should go. But, but. But it's just all things, you know, you sitting there, you talking to people.

[Max Kellerman]

Like Griefman's, though, right? Good, good, Good suggestion. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

You sitting there, you talking to people. I always. I always just try to get better at things. Tastes come from a business acumen. All those things, you have to have taste and all those things. So I just. Look, I. I think every day you're under construction, so I just always be thinking about how to improve.

[Max Kellerman]

That was like Steve Jobs, really. Right. It was really his aesthetic sensibility probably more than anything else, that blew it up.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah. Yeah. He was basically a great technological producer,

[Max Kellerman]

but it was less about the technology and no division, how it made you. How the way it looked made you feel.

[Rich Kleiman]

His vision. But in that technical technology vertical. Yeah, but. You ready to start your show, man?

[Max Kellerman]

Let's do it.

[Rich Kleiman]

Game [e-mail].

[Max Kellerman]

yeah. Game over at Max Kellerman.

[Rich Kleiman]

Rich, are we still asking to subscribe?

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, I think. No, because, I mean, like, yeah, listen to the show, of course, and tell all your friends about it.

[Rich Kleiman]

But no, hit the subscribe button. Subscribe. Subscribe.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA postseason is here, and FanDuel knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team is winning along with them. Let's be honest. FanDuel is the best place to bet the team's players and plays during their playoff run. Build a same game parlay or try live betting and jump in after tip off. And don't forget, with FanDuel, you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel sportsbook app now and play your game 21 and over in select states 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER, call 888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnectic.

[Rich Kleiman]

Speaking of taste, we should have had some donuts. Happy 50th.

[Max Kellerman]

50th show. Yeah, this is our 50th episode.

[Rich Kleiman]

Why don't we have a donut with a candle in it?

[Max Kellerman]

Do something healthy. I can't have donuts.

[Rich Kleiman]

What, you want a celery A carrot stick with a candle in it. Can't do that.

[Max Kellerman]

Everything, you know, you know. You notice this. I see it on Instagram and it actually works. Everything they make with a Greek yogurt. Now whatever you want to eat, you can make it with Greek yogurt. And that's high protein, low calorie.

[Rich Kleiman]

Man. I want a donut.

[Max Kellerman]

Thing about being over 50, you got to think of this nonsense.

[Rich Kleiman]

Okay. It was Friday. You can have one donut. Georgia always kills me with that. I can't have it. Like, what is it going to do to you? Nothing.

[Max Kellerman]

I just thought about a donut. I gained a pound.

[Rich Kleiman]

Please get your steps in then.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich,

[Rich Kleiman]

what are you mad about?

[Max Kellerman]

The Thunder blow out the Lakers last night. Okay. And there's a bunch of stuff to get into here. But the first thing really is, and I missed this part because the. I was really rooting almost at a certain point in the second quarter for the Thunder to end the half. Doubling the Lakers score. Cause that's rare. Could they end the half like 80 to 40? That'd be awesome to see, right? Cause at that point the game has already lost for the Lakers.

[Rich Kleiman]

This just major night hunt, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

No, I want. I mean, I'm rooting for the Lakers, but you know, if you're down by that much, you're not going to win the game. You might as well see something, you know, that you don't always see. That didn't happen. I flip over to the Cavs and the Warriors. I had a feeling that was going to be a good game. Cavs were up by a bunch. Warriors came back on them, made it real close at the end. Cavs pulled away and won the game. But the point is I missed the LUCA injury. I found out after the fact that about the Luka injury and before we get to even the game or anything. Rich, I have said and I believe that J.J. redick deserves to be in the coach of the year conversation. Certainly deserves serious consideration along with Missoula and a couple others. Because he has held the Lakers together at times with spit and bubble gum. Like I don't know how. He's done a great job. And then he gotten Lucas face at the right time and motivated everyone, got everyone to buy in. He's done a great job last night, like second guessing that's going to happen today because last night they're getting blown out. Luka's had a soft tissue issue like with the left hamstring. He has missed time with the left hamstring this year. He tweaked. It earlier in the game, got treatment for it, apparently. And he's out there in a total blowout in a game that is not going to help or hurt the Lakers, really, because they're not going to drop below 6. So they're not going to be in the play in. They're not going to catch the top three like they are where they are. And now he's out for who knows how long. Right now. I understand. I'm not saying it's JJ's fault because you got to play your players, you know you're going to play them. It doesn't mean just because you're up, like you're not going to play any minutes. And something like that could have happened at any time. But given the totality of the circumstances, if it were up to me, Luca wouldn't be in that game. In the second half, once he tweaks his hamstring that he's already missed games and it's a blowout. Sit Luca. Jg, I'm sure had reasons for playing Luca, so you can't. Had he not gotten injured, this wouldn't even be an issue. But the fact is he did get injured and, like, there's no. Like, if the Lakers played in New York, all the tabloids this morning would be all about that decision.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah. A tough spot to be as a coach, obviously.

[Max Kellerman]

Obviously.

[Rich Kleiman]

Because we, we. We're in the, in the. In the gambling house. They call this after cards, like playing after cards.

[Max Kellerman]

But easy to know everything in retrospect.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah. And it reminds me of when, you know, Thibodeau got the flack about Derrick Rose being in the game that time. Obviously this year it was Jaden Daniels. I think he was in the game and got injured again when he probably shouldn't have been in. So it's just a tough spot to be in as a coach. And how I think about it, in these situations, it's a collective. Right. I think there's. In the moment. Do you make a phone call? Who's at the game? Do people travel? Because in the NBA, everyone doesn't always travel. Right. So the decision makers probably wasn't all necessarily in one room to try to decide. You have to get the information from the. From the medical team. In JJ's case, the medical team say he can go.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, if the medical. JJ has to be able to trust his medical people. If they say he can go, what am I? Every. Like, by this time of the year, everyone's dealing with something and soft tissue injuries are through the roof. Because the pace is so quick nowadays.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

So I get it. I'm not like, there's no way for him to know. But I always. You and I have talked about this. When you hear hamstring or groin, to me, it's like, that's the kind of thing is. Okay, is he cleared? Great. I'm gonna sit him another. Like, you wanna have such an abundance of caution because that's the kind of thing where if you let it heal up, you're fine. But if you let it heal enough so that you can play, but it's still an issue, you're never fine.

[Rich Kleiman]

The stop sign is the size of the sphere. In Vegas, when I hear soft tissue injuries, it's like, stop.

[Max Kellerman]

But then on the other hand, you understand what JJ or the Lakers are dealing with. Wait a minute. There's a. There's a whole thing about load management. The. You know, everyone's got a little hamstring, a little groin, a little something wrong with their finger with something we can't. Like how many.

[Rich Kleiman]

Also going into the game, you don't think that's going to be the outcome. You game plan a certain way. There's MVP conversations going on. It's a marquee matchup. You know, there's a lot of things there.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I know. I get it.

[Rich Kleiman]

Tough, though. I think the tougher part about it is it's not about last night's game. It's about going forward.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

What is the position of.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, it looks like. It looks like. Is he going to play in the first series of the playoffs?

[Rich Kleiman]

I don't know. I haven't. I haven't had a conversation.

[Max Kellerman]

So there's. So there's grade one, two and three. Right. If you're talking about a hammy and one is good, like you're going to be okay. Two is already an issue. Three, that's a problem. That means, I believe three is a complete rupture. Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

It's like it's probably is more than two weeks. That's for sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, a lot more than two weeks.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But. So hopefully it's one. But the way sometimes the way a dude reacts, like, I'll give you an example. And this was the championship on the line. When KD, was it 20? 18?

[Rich Kleiman]

What? 19?

[Max Kellerman]

19, 19. Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

Against Toronto.

[Max Kellerman]

When. When KD pulled up with that, they called it a calf. Rich. I actually debated this with Stephen A. On first take at the time, I was like, that is not a calf. I don't care what medical that is. Clearly an Achilles, right? Like you could see whatever that is, that you could call it whatever you want. I know that everyone knows it when they see it. And everyone's like, no, no, the doctors are saying this and that. And my position at the time was, I understand there's a championship at stake. That's as strong a motivation as you can imagine. And yet to me, it is folly to allow him to play right like you. Like that is going to be bad. And sure enough, like, the next day it snapped and that was it. Now, medicine's come a long way. KD's a super great player. It didn't affect his career to the point that I thought it might, but damn, that's an. Like that. Sometimes you have to use discretion even when the medical team is telling you. So. But what did you think about, like, let me get to this. When we first started this show, a lot of. You took a lot of criticism. You got a lot of flack. Why is he even doing this? Yes, yes, you did. Why is he even doing this? Et cetera, et cetera. And early on in this show's history, we're on episode 50 right now, but I made a comment about Austin Reaves, and I was the one who said it. I said Reaves, given the structure of the Lakers and everything, I ideally, as a sixth man, little redundant right now on the Lakers, you're going to have to give him a max deal. You might consider, since he's the only real asset you have other than Luca in terms of a trade situation, you might consider trading Austin Reaves. And you just entertain that as a possibility that I had brought up. And you got hammered for it. Right. So you also mentioned, because we were talking about are the Lakers championship contenders, and you said based on their age, athleticism, the depth, et cetera, et cetera. No, they're a good team. They'll make the playoffs. Maybe they can win a playoff series. But the contenders are the contenders. That turned out to be the contenders. You identified as many. Did the Thunder. I don't remember if we said the spurs at the time, but the Nuggets. And we were thinking, I said at least Houston if they get Van Vliet back. Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, I think that was probably before. Yeah. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

So now they. Luka has some injury. It doesn't look great. Hopefully we get good news on that soon. Where are you after last night's blowout on the Lakers?

[Rich Kleiman]

You know, look, I think, first of all, I think to start, people didn't understand it and people perceive you a certain way, and they only Want you to be that way, talking about yourself doing this show. Yeah, they don't know. Like it's the packaging. Oh, you can't do that because of a hat you wear and blah, blah, blah. The other day I was the chief podcast officer.

[Max Kellerman]

I wanted to see if you had

[Rich Kleiman]

it on you, St. Clair.

[Max Kellerman]

But.

[Rich Kleiman]

But one day I may wear my agent hat. So I understand that. And you have to be. And me having information and all those type of things. So I get it. And we, we clean all that up, fine. But I just think, not even focus on the Lakers. I just think I always look at conferences and I look at what I see and in order to have a championship, a realistic chance of winning a championship, there's just certain things you have to have. One of the important things is depth. Right. Experience, health. We talked about that. Shooting matters. And then on all those teams you need somebody that can take over the game in certain moments and so on and so forth. But more importantly, Max, I think I just, I still believe there's a gap, right? There's a, there's a gap in the Western Conference, despite what the seatings look like.

[Max Kellerman]

But everyone knows this. There's the Thunder and the spurs and the Nuggets.

[Rich Kleiman]

Nuggets.

[Max Kellerman]

And then gap, gap, gap. Space, space, space, space, space, space, return, return, return, return.

[Rich Kleiman]

It's a big.

[Max Kellerman]

And then everyone else, right?

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes, it's a big gap. And we thought that the Rockets would be there whole with Fred. Okay, they're not there.

[Max Kellerman]

No burner from kd. Yeah, couldn't predict that. Yeah, we don't know for sure that it was, that it was KD's burn.

[Rich Kleiman]

But, but there's a gap. There's a big gap. So none of this surprises me. And look, a team can lose by 100 points and people, people get every day. The, the casual roller coaster is going to be up and down and up and down.

[Max Kellerman]

Especially in an era of three point shooting. That could happen. The best team could lose by 25%.

[Rich Kleiman]

I can look at a team and say that team has a realistic chance of winning a championship. You just know certain things and, and so I'm still at the same place. I think there's a gap. I think the Thunder, Spurs, Nuggets, any three of those teams are going to come out the west and it's only those three teams, in my opinion.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't see the Nuggets, by the way. I think there's a gap between the Thunder and the Spurs. And the Nuggets.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, they could.

[Max Kellerman]

The Nuggets don't play defensive enough. Really.

[Rich Kleiman]

The reason why I'm never going to count the Nuggets out is because at any time you have a player like Joker every night he steps out on the floor. He could arguably be. In most nights, he is the best player on that floor.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Kleiman]

They also have a guy, Jamal Murray, who isn't afraid of the moment.

[Max Kellerman]

And they have a third guy in Aaron Gordon, who's the perfect compliment. Who buys into the role.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes. And when you talk about matchups, they're

[Max Kellerman]

not deep enough for the Thunder. Dude.

[Rich Kleiman]

Okay, listen. Or the spurs, however you want to call it. All I'm saying is one of those three teams are going to come out the West. One of those three. If you want to flip a coin. You want me to make you a jacket from my man Jeff Hamilton that has the Thunder, spurs and Nuggets.

[Max Kellerman]

I think one of the two teams. But. Right. Nuggets is not impossible. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

So. So. But when you look at all three of those teams, the reason why is exactly what I'm telling you. They have a closer. They have depth. They have the ability to. They have flexibility within the roster to where they can. They can position themselves to fight any style you want to fight. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

The Thunder also have. The 12th guy on the bench is really good at basketball.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

That every single guy on that team has a high IQ on the Thunder. And they can play. They're any.

[Rich Kleiman]

They could play slow.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Kleiman]

They could play fast.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

Now, they don't have that deep, dominant. Dominant big man that you would look for like a Wimy or Joker.

[Max Kellerman]

They got something pretty close.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, but Chet adds a different thing as a big. He adds a totally different thing.

[Max Kellerman]

And Hartenstein is good. Like, they got a real. They got really good.

[Rich Kleiman]

Hardenstein adds a different.

[Max Kellerman]

Like the fact that you have to say about the Thunder. What's the weakness? The bigs. If. If you could start your franchise.

[Rich Kleiman]

Their weakness.

[Max Kellerman]

No, what I'm saying is start your franchise with. And Hartenstein as your bigs. As your bigs. And you're like, damn, we're excellent, by the way. That's the weakness.

[Rich Kleiman]

You're missing one. What? Jalen Williams.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, Jalen Williams. Come on, man. They got the. If you said, who has the best bigs in the league? They're in the conversation collectively.

[Rich Kleiman]

Collectively. But when you think about it, not only. Not only, but.

[Max Kellerman]

And yet. I know what you mean. They don't have Joker or Wemby. That's different.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes, but I'm saying dominant. But a guy like Jalen Williams, he gets in, he stretches the floor, right? A guy which.

[Max Kellerman]

Jalen Williams.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, I'm saying floor stretching.

[Max Kellerman]

Jalen Williams.

[Rich Kleiman]

Jalen Williams from a guy like Chet, he's so versatile. He can put the ball on the floor, he rebounds, he can also shoot the three. He can handle, right? And then when you take a guy

[Max Kellerman]

changes your offense on the other side cause he's so long.

[Rich Kleiman]

When you take a guy like Hardenstein, a lot of times he reminds me of what Tristan meant to the Cavs when they had that, those, those championships.

[Max Kellerman]

If somehow the Knicks could have held on to Hartenstein, right?

[Rich Kleiman]

Like, I mean his art of screen setting, his iq. He sets, screens, throws the ball through his legs to the shooter. He just does. He has a little floater. He's brolic. So he can guard.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, he's a big body.

[Rich Kleiman]

So when you think about those things in a seven game series, and then you have a guy like Shay and the other Jalen Williams continuing to get downhill, then they throw wiggins on you. Then a guy like Isaiah Joe, he got one of the prettiest jump shots in the league. Dan, we, we haven't even mentioned Dort, right? And Case and Wallace, they put in so much shooting.

[Max Kellerman]

This is why you can't, this is why Shea is so good. It's not why he's so good for a lot of reasons. But there are shooters everywhere you look. So. As if he's your closer, what, you want to double him, so you're going to leave a 42% three point shooter wide open.

[Rich Kleiman]

But, but not just 42%. 42% with the confidence to take the shot. Because they're not going to be looked at a certain way, they're not going to be looked off.

[Max Kellerman]

Because the culture is a certain thing. Because they are smart basketball players.

[Rich Kleiman]

These things matter. Now let's get to San Antonio. They hit you with Castle, they hit you with Vassell, by the way.

[Max Kellerman]

I gotta say something. Castle, Harper, you know, they have these. Who would you trade? Castle is already so much trading.

[Rich Kleiman]

None of them.

[Max Kellerman]

Castle is now where I thought he'd be a year or two from. Castle is so good.

[Rich Kleiman]

I don't know why you thought that. I don't know why it surprised you.

[Max Kellerman]

I just. It happened fast.

[Rich Kleiman]

He did get drafted to San Antonio.

[Max Kellerman]

And who was he a lot like? Let's be honest, Kawhi. Yeah. A guy who comes in, known for it, and he's playing defense and you look at his offense and you go, he's a baby offensively, but he's already pretty good and you see where it's going. It is going to feel.

[Rich Kleiman]

But when that jump when, when he, when he decides and he will because he. He's a worker shooting at 38% from 3. It's just going to be.

[Max Kellerman]

He's going to be. He's going to be in the conversation best two way player in the league again.

[Rich Kleiman]

Once they add a big another big to back up Wemby, they have a. It's good now but the young kid Carter.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Kleiman]

Kellen Johnson who's in the. In the running for six. Man, I'm just saying we talking about these things. Flexibility, depth, shooting, defensive ball pressure. They can fight any style you want to fight now. And they lack the experience from a playoff perspective. But hey, the only way the best experience is to be thrown in the fire and learn from that perspective.

[Max Kellerman]

I want to get into Shay.

[Rich Kleiman]

There's a gap.

[Max Kellerman]

I want to get into Shay. But before we do, is that your get rich quick or do you have a get rich quick?

[Rich Kleiman]

No, I have a get rich quick. That's me educating you on the game of basketball.

[Max Kellerman]

I thought that's what was just happening.

[Rich Kleiman]

No. Did you take notes up here?

[Max Kellerman]

Got all the notes up here.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, that's all. So.

[Max Kellerman]

So what's up? So what's up with the get rich quick? That was it.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, that was not my get rich quick.

[Max Kellerman]

So let's do it.

[Rich Kleiman]

What is my get rich quick? I forgot what it is.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, it says here. Be the part, don't play the part.

[Rich Kleiman]

Oh yeah?

[Max Kellerman]

I'm wondering what you mean.

[Rich Kleiman]

You know what, Max? I was thinking about it.

[Max Kellerman]

Be the part.

[Rich Kleiman]

I am going to be the part. I went down this rabbit hole of why your environment matters and you know, and we losing so many young people behind certain decisions that's being made and their environment and you have. You feel the peer pressure to indulge in things and so on and so forth. And then that led me to just this journey that you can't really skip steps in life about certain things. And I'm in this role and, and being an agent you get a lot of young people that want to be agents and so on and so forth. And I was just going down memory lane of when I started and how I used to book the flights and, and book the restaurants and book the barber and. And all those things. And. And I'm just like all these people. You know, you want to be in these positions, but I think you need these experiences to mold you to really become good at your job. All Those things I had to do as a young agent. Whereas today you want to skip steps to look as if you are successful versus building that, that foundation and going down an assembly line to add things.

[Max Kellerman]

The old thing where you started in the mail room. Yeah. Like it used to be that, that happens. That happens in America. Yes, at times, not always, but sometimes the guy literally starts in the mail room because he learns every part of the business from the ground floor up.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Works hard, gets promoted, gets noticed, gets promoted, et cetera. And by the time you get to the point where you can run things, you know, you know, you the business every step of the way.

[Rich Kleiman]

But nowadays it's just so many steps that want to be skipped from, man, I need a different title or I need, I need three things. I need two assistants. I need a driver to do. It's like, no, you actually, you should go the other way. So I was just, just really wanting to send that message in terms of it's not about looking the part, it's really about being the part and going through those things. I tell people all the time, the first draft I ever had, I was fired before the draft by a client and fired after the draft. Now, neither one of these guys got drafted, but still, you know, imagine that

[Max Kellerman]

like Craig got fired on your day. I got fired twice.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, but, but think about how discouraging that could be if you allow it to be.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. So, but yeah, so much of, so much of success in life is being resilient about failure because you will inevitably experience failure and be frustrated.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes. So. But that was it. Yeah, that was it.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel. This Major League Baseball season, FanDuel is giving you a chance to call your shot with daily dingers. Just make your free pick on who's hitting a home run and if you're right, you'll get a profit boost to use on your next bet. It's just another reason why FanDuel is the home of home runs. Head to FanDuel.com gameover to opt in and make your daily dingers pick, play ball and swing for the fences on FanDuel, an official partner of MLB 21 and over in select states or 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. No purchase necessary. Opt in required Bonus issued is non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See [e-mail] gambling problem call 1-800-gambler call 1-888-789-777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenecticut Is shade MVP? Is it like, people are like, did Shea lock up the MVP last night?

[Rich Kleiman]

I mean, I don't think you could do it from one game.

[Max Kellerman]

Here's the problem for me in terms, here's the argument for Shea. He's played 65 games, which is a handful more than Joker, who's played over 60, and a lot more than Wemby.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Who's also on a minutes restriction.

[Rich Kleiman]

Right, Right.

[Max Kellerman]

He is a two way player. It's not like he's the greatest defender you've ever seen, but he plays defense. It's not like an afterthought for him. He's not only 30 points a game that everyone's celebrating. I mean, to me that's a little arbitrary because you could 29 points, 31 points. People wouldn't celebrate it the same way. 30 is a nice round number, but it is an incredible achievement. You know, averaging 30 again. He's also a closer. He's legitimately clutch at the end of game. That's a lot. The issue for me is people turn MVP back into a team award, right? They never just want to isolate value. The team award is the standings they are. They have the best record, they're going to have all this kind of stuff. That's the team award, is the championship. They won it last year, they might win it again this year. But Shai is on an extremely deep and excellent team. Much deeper, say, than Joker's team. Much better defensively than Joker's team. He's not a better player than Joker. If someone said, here's Shay and here's Joker, you could have either one. And Shay is great. Joker's easily a better player. It's not like you have to sit around and really think about that. So when people talk about value, I don't think the couple of extra games that Shai played is enough to make up the difference in terms of how much better Joker is than Shay. So to me, that's the mvp. And then furthermore, Wemby, even though he's played fewer games, got a little chilly. You like it? You. You like it warm?

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, no, I. I don't know. Are we trying to.

[Max Kellerman]

I was in your office the other day and it was hot in there. Like, you have the thermostat set to rainforest.

[Rich Kleiman]

Is there like a. Is there like a. Are they hanging meat for to cows or something? And it's free. What are you talking about? It wasn't cold when I first sat down. But then someone Must have turned the air up.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, maybe. Thank God.

[Rich Kleiman]

That's why I always have.

[Max Kellerman]

Hey, make it warmer.

[Rich Kleiman]

Anyway, I keep my office hot so you don't come in, stay long.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm like Mr. Freeze. You ever see the little Batman TV show? Mr. Freeze had to stay in the cold

[Rich Kleiman]

zone, but go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

So you think Joker and also Wemby? I think like, you know the regular season. In a league that plays, if you finish in the top 10, you're still playing after the regular season. The MVP will never come from a non at least play in team. So basically the whole Lee, everyone who is an MVP will be playing after the season's over. Why do you make the regular season award? Doesn't even make sense to me. But even then, Shea, lock up the mvp. I think Joker's the mvp. I think I give it to Wemby over Shea. I think they're better than Shea. Has there ever been Shea's on a better team than Joker.

[Rich Kleiman]

Has there ever been a Tri mvp?

[Max Kellerman]

No. In any sport.

[Rich Kleiman]

And it probably won't be no. So this, I think it could be co MVP this year though.

[Max Kellerman]

Could be.

[Rich Kleiman]

I think they all are deserving. This is a. I told you this before. This is the toughest year to pick an mvp or one of the toughest years in a long time to pick the mvp.

[Max Kellerman]

You know, I'll know who the mvp.

[Rich Kleiman]

And I do agree with your point. I do agree with your point in terms of it always changes because depending on who it is. Like they, they would say, oh, your team standings don't matter. You're on the best team. Definitely if it was, you know who, they would definitely say, oh, his team has the best. He's on the best team. So it don't count. Okay. But yeah, oh, if it's LeBron.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, I mean, listen, it don't matter.

[Rich Kleiman]

But let's, let's look, they're turning it

[Max Kellerman]

back into a team award. They're saying, they're saying it's not a team award. It shouldn't be a team. It can only be a team award in the sense how much better are you making your teammates? Hard to imagine a guy making his teammates better than Jokic. Jokic is a guy like magic or LeBron or bird. A guy who makes his teammates as good as they could possibly be. He doesn't hold the ball, he moves.

[Rich Kleiman]

Credit Shay, though. Shay has played MVP level basketball. So has Wimby and so has Joker. Yeah, I would say it's more between Shay and Wimby than it is Joker

[Max Kellerman]

this year, I would say it's between Joker and Wemby.

[Rich Kleiman]

You think so?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. You know, but Shea is a great player. Kirk Cousins just signed. Well, Kirk Cousins. Yeah. Just signed with the Raiders. He's still playing. Someone said he's still playing. He's still playing.

[Rich Kleiman]

I don't get the money, Kurt.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

Get your money.

[Max Kellerman]

I think it's a smart move by the Raiders. They pick up a veteran quarterback who you know they're going to draft Mendoza. They have a veteran to play ahead of him.

[Rich Kleiman]

Of course it's a smart move.

[Max Kellerman]

The Giants did this with Kurt Warner when they drafted Eli. You know, this is what used to happen.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, it used to happen in basketball, too.

[Max Kellerman]

That's right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And actually it's a good deal because they're only paying $1.3 million of his salary.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, originally they put the yeast on

[Max Kellerman]

the announcement, but that's what I want to talk about. It's one point. They're going to pay 1.3, plus they're going to owe him 10. So they're going to wind up paying 11.3. It's by my calculations. Right. That's an excellent price for a veteran quarterback who you want to influence your young.

[Rich Kleiman]

And he's in Vegas, so he gets a tax break.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Could play a little golf at the Summit.

[Max Kellerman]

It's a great deal for the Raiders. But the way this was reported originally, I'm watching. I think it was SportsCenter. And I'm watching it and they talk about put the yeast on it. Kirk cousins with 100 something million dollars contract because they have an option for two years at 80 altogether, plus the 20 he's owed from Atlanta equals 100. Why report it that way? First of all, I am used to hearing this in this kind of reporting. So immediately I'm like, what's the guarantee? Then I find out the guarantee. I'm listening for the guarantee 20. So I'm like, huh, the Raiders want to pay 20 million for a veteran quarterback. Maybe you could get that for less. And then I read about it and it's like, oh, it's not 20. They're paying a million three. And maybe they'll pay another 10. So it's 11.3 by my calculations. Why does sports.

[Rich Kleiman]

But Atlanta pays something too.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, they. Why does SportsCenter feel. Or ESPN in this case, or many different outlets feel the need to put the yeast on it? The truth is more interesting than blowing it up to make it sound like something it's not. Now, you could say whatever SportsCenter producer wanted it in there that way. I understand that they think, well, it's more kind of sensational. But when you sensationalize the information, it makes your account less trustworthy and it makes people dumber about the subject. Why do you want a less educated consumer? Don't you want a more educated consumer? Why feed information that is simply, in a larger sense, incorrect to sensationalize the segment for a few minutes? It bothers me.

[Rich Kleiman]

I can tell. Yeah, I can tell.

[Max Kellerman]

I did a new show. I did a. Basically a strict news show on ESPN once, and it was called this just in. It was the last job I had at ESPN, and I would always be.

[Rich Kleiman]

You had like, 95 jobs at ESPN.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I did.

[Rich Kleiman]

You did everything.

[Max Kellerman]

I would always be on the lookout for stuff like that. If it was presented to me, like, oh, look at this. I'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's the actual guarantee? Yeah, but you want to tell people

[Rich Kleiman]

the truth, but let's look at the other side. You can't have this big production and then talk about. And it's like a downer.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, you can, if it's true. And here's the upper. If you want to be. If you want to make people feel high instead of low about it. Raiders got a great deal. Raiders actually got a cheap veteran quarterback.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, that could.

[Max Kellerman]

It's a good move.

[Rich Kleiman]

That is a better headline.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? But the headlines now make the Raiders look stupid. It's like, Kirk cousins for 100 million. What are they doing?

[Rich Kleiman]

That's a better headline. Yeah, that's a better headline, Max. Yo, did you see what Brian said about the city of Memphis?

[Max Kellerman]

Did you see it? You want to play it for him?

[Rich Kleiman]

Let's play it. Let's play it. Check this out, because I've been getting a lot of texts. We talked about it. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but go ahead. Let's play it.

[LeBron James (clip)]

At 41 years old, you think I want to do that on a random ass Thursday? I'm not like, the first guy I even talk about in the NBA. Like, we all, like. You guys have to move. Let's go over to Nashville.

[Max Kellerman]

You got the.

[LeBron James (clip)]

You got Vanderbilt over there. You got the nascar. You got a stadium. Don't they got a hockey team, too?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, Predators.

[Rich Kleiman]

Predators.

[LeBron James (clip)]

Like, they got everything.

[Rich Kleiman]

Doesn't look like LeBron's going to be on the Grizzlies anytime soon.

[Advertisement Voice]

So.

[Rich Kleiman]

Grizzly fans out there. Yeah.

[LeBron James (clip)]

They know their only chance is in 2003. If they would have won the lottery and I might. And I might have pulled a Eli Manning and not showed up.

[Rich Kleiman]

Where's this guy at?

[Max Kellerman]

That's great. By the way. That's great. Like I let. This is what everyone wants is the barbershop. Right. The idea is that you get unfiltered opinion.

[Rich Kleiman]

You having fun, you're out. But this isn't news.

[Max Kellerman]

Stop about Memphis.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, it's not news. And by the way, they love him in Memphis. The fans always love in Memphis. And normally he always plays in Memphis. I think he only not played a few times in Memphis. My cousin Ruth live in Memphis. So I know and I have family in Jonesboro, Arkansas. So Memphis is. I have no family in Memphis or Jonesboro, Arkansas. I'm sure you don't history of the

[Max Kellerman]

Kellerman family either side. There's no way I got a soul in mem.

[Rich Kleiman]

I think obviously when he says something is going to go viral, but he's not the first person to talk about this. There's been several NBA players to talk about this and it's. It's just one of those things. It's unfortunate to the organization because actually my man Zach does a a great job down in Memphis as he leads from a decision making perspective. But it's funny to me because I actually. I get it. People don't understand what happens in the NBA traveling cycle. Okay. You land. First of all, depending on when you're going to a city. Let's just say you play the night in Houston and then your next game is in Memphis.

[Max Kellerman]

Second to back to back. No, second or back to back to back on the road. Okay.

[Rich Kleiman]

Or not.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Kleiman]

Let's just say it is a back to back. Yeah, you land.

[Max Kellerman]

This is why the best bet in betting is against the team playing the second of back to back on the road in the NBA.

[Rich Kleiman]

Especially in certain cities. Yeah. Because.

[Max Kellerman]

So you land. Sorry, you land.

[Rich Kleiman]

It's five in the morning. About time you get to your hotel. And Houston might be too close in proximity. But I'm just giving you an example. Wherever you coming from, you land in Memphis. It's five in the morning by the time you get to your hotel. Maybe you want something to eat, maybe you don't. You might be sleepy, maybe you're not. Then you go to. You won't have a shoot around, but you play. Many teams are not going to stay over in Memphis. They're going to want to go to the next city. But let's just say you have a day in between.

[Max Kellerman]

Why don't they want to Stay over in Memphis, because it's. Can I tell you a story about a hotel that I stayed at? So I go down to Memphis for the Lewis Tyson fight. Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson. I'm traveling with Brian Kenny because we were.

[Rich Kleiman]

I remember that fight there. What was that?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, at the Pyramid. So we're traveling and it's like trains, planes and automobiles to get to the hotel. And there was a delay and we were traveling forever. And we get there, we're starving, right? So first I'm like, you know what? And I haven't had fresh air since I left wherever I was traveling from. And I'm like, I'm just gonna go to the hotel room. I just wanna, like, look out the window. I just need to relax for a second, get to the room, put my stuff down, go to. After, like, waiting on a line to check in, dealing with this woman behind the desk looking at me like, city slicker, right? Like, not, like, giving me and going super slow and everything. Finally, I get up to the room. I'm glad to be away from the front desk. I open the curtains and I'm looking right down at the front desk, right? Like, it's one of those interior rooms.

[Rich Kleiman]

Oh, it's the other way.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, the other way. I'm looking. So I'm like, ah, finally I got away from it. Let me just. Let's see a tree or something. I open it, looking right at that woman, okay? So I take a shower or something. I change, I'm starving. I talk to Brian. I'm like, let's get a steak, man. I'm starving. Let's go to, like, a nice steak joint tonight, right? Go down to the front desk, go to that same woman, you get a steak up. No, I went to the same woman. I said, hey, listen, is there any good steak place around here? Like, I'd like a nice steak. What's the best place around here? She looks at me and she goes, steak and Ale is right across the street. Something like that. And I'm like, is it good? She looks at me again, she goes, I think it's good, right? Like, not good enough for you, tough guy. So I'm like, all right, could you tell me where it is? She tells me, and we go to the place, we find it, whatever. Let's just say I'm not making a comment about that brand or that, you know, I don't understand. I'm saying that this particular establishment in that time was, let's just say, not what I was looking for.

[Rich Kleiman]

Okay, Max, you live in Manhattan.

[Max Kellerman]

We drive across the street. There's a Ruth Chris right there across the street.

[Rich Kleiman]

Okay. There you go.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, great. I don't need the fanciest place in the world, but it was great. Why did she send me to that

[Rich Kleiman]

place instead of the other place? Max, that is wrong of you. Because you can't expect her to know Ruth Chris.

[Max Kellerman]

But she knows. Put it this way. Correct. I understand. She knows that that's the fancier steak joint.

[Rich Kleiman]

Or maybe she don't.

[Max Kellerman]

Maybe across the street from her favorite place.

[Rich Kleiman]

Listen, I'm telling you, some people just get in their ways.

[Max Kellerman]

You might like McDonald's, but you know, if the Burger King is across the street.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, everybody doesn't know. You gotta. You gotta know your personnel.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, well, anyway, I'm just saying. So again, there are reasons people don't stay over in Memphis.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes, but, but, but it's not just Memphis. If you talk to. If you did a survey and you talked to players in the NBA about. Give me your favorite NBA cities and why. What are some of the things you need for an NBA city for NBA players to feel as if this city is good for them? Kendrick Perkins, he. He retweeted something where he said, guys make it to the league and, and, and the Hyatt is, is, Is no good anymore. True. That's not a. That's not a fake thing. But they're also. NBA players don't stay in the Hyatt. I'll stand the Hyatt, no problem. But the NBA players do not stay in the Hyatt. They stay in the four Seasons. They stand by the way. They stay in.

[Max Kellerman]

There's. There's a built in assumption. There's something in this country that's interesting. It's okay for a CEO of a business, right, to stay at the fanciest place, right? But an oil tycoon, they can stay at the fanciest place and get out of a Rolls Royce and that's fine. But why, if you're playing a child's game, how dare you? Like there's something, and this is true, and it's like an ownership versus labor dividend. If you are labor and you're rich, it doesn't matter. Your taste should stay the same and it should be good enough for you.

[Rich Kleiman]

Do you understand?

[Max Kellerman]

By the time someone gets to the NBA rich, the NBA, those players are so much more entitled to be rich than someone just born into money out of 8 billion people on earth. It is almost not hyperbolic to say. It's almost not an exaggeration. To say everyone who can play in the NBA is playing in the NBA out of 8 billion. You are. Because, because if you play.

[Rich Kleiman]

Nobody not playing in the NBA.

[Max Kellerman]

Who could play in the NBA?

[Rich Kleiman]

Who could play in the NBA? Because I take that back. There is people, they just. There is.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, there's a certain level where they can be a star. And so for the most part, because if, even if you could be a star in the NBA, but there's only

[Rich Kleiman]

so many slots to play.

[Max Kellerman]

To play. Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

And so all those are fields.

[Max Kellerman]

But, but you could play in the NFL or the NBA, you will 100% of the time pick NBA. It's a longer career, guaranteed money, more money, you're not getting hit, et cetera, et cetera. Football players play football because they couldn't be stars in the NBA. Let's just be honest about it. If you could play baseball or basketball. Baseball is much less certain. If you're a hot prospect. So much of it's mechanical, the development takes so long. The money's less certain you going to play in the NBA. The, the, the best athletes.

[Rich Kleiman]

The closest is soccer in NBA. To play, to be an athlete. If you.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but the best big athletes playing the NBA, right?

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes, but.

[Max Kellerman]

So the point is, it's so competitive now. You've devoted your entire life to getting there. And you're one of the, you're one of the 450 best out of 8 billion people. But you're not entitled to outgrow a certain level of hotel because you're now rich, because you're enjoying the fruits of your labor. And you are objectively actually one of the 450 out of 8 billion people get offended by that. But not the CEO.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, but it also goes back to the person because Max, it definitely goes back to the person because think about it this way. I know people with a ton of money. They may rather stay at the Hyatt based upon they may have points or whatever the case may be. I don't think it's one way or the other.

[Max Kellerman]

You'll stay at the Hyatt.

[Rich Kleiman]

I'll stay at the Hyatt. Especially if you're paying for it. Hell yeah, I'll stay at the Hyatt. But here's the thing. NFL has a curfew. They, they have 53 man roster. They, they're not, they're not paying for all those rooms at a Four Seasons or at a Ritz or at a, you know, the top, top tier hotel.

[Max Kellerman]

Too many guys, they're not sending the Amman In New York, he can name all the hotels. You don't even know how to pronounce.

[Rich Kleiman]

The Peninsula, the Waldorf. They're not stand at those places. But the NBA is different, right? And they are sent at those places. And guess what? One thing. I'm not talk about taste. Once you get to the point to where you can afford to. I'm not cutting corners on where I lay my head.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

I'm not doing that. If I can right now.

[Max Kellerman]

Some things are, especially where you live, where you. You've reached the point now. No, by the way, I've reached this point. But you are beyond. You've reached the point now where there's no hotel that you're going to stay at that's nicer than your own house. Doesn't matter what hotel you stay at.

[Rich Kleiman]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

So. So of course you want to stay at a nice one. At least that can approximate your house.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes, but also you. You. You know, you. You get used to things. You build relationships over time with things. So you go to these hotels and you just can't cut corn first. Let's just talk about safety. Safety.

[Max Kellerman]

You're talking about hotels in Memphis for NBA players now, right?

[Rich Kleiman]

I'm talking about hotels in general. But the Memphis thing, that's not nothing new.

[Max Kellerman]

Because I want to get back to Memphis in a second.

[Rich Kleiman]

I'm just saying the Memphis thing is not nothing new. I don't want to get back to Memphis.

[Max Kellerman]

I would like to.

[Rich Kleiman]

You want to go to Memphis?

[Max Kellerman]

No, I don't mean get back to Memphis. I mean like, get.

[Rich Kleiman]

We should go to Memphis and do a show.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, we could do a show in Memphis. Not anymore. I don't want to go to Memphis now. We made everybody.

[Rich Kleiman]

I don't have nothing to do with that. He made that comment. I didn't make that comment.

[Max Kellerman]

Let me say this about LeBron talking. It is impossible in the world ever to publicly make a pronouncement about your preferences without offending someone. Especially if what you're talking about is a geographical location. You will offend a whole group of people.

[Rich Kleiman]

People talk about Cleveland all the time.

[Max Kellerman]

It goes beyond that. You could say, this could be a man or a woman talking, just talking about the opposite side sex. Right. And talking about their preferences. They will offend some group that is not in that. Right. Or some bunch of people that don't fit that description. And yet does that mean that in the public square people should never voice their preferences out of fear that it will offend someone? It's ridiculous. Well, the reality is, I understand people in Memphis might look and there's no. There's no happy result here. It's not good to hurt people's feelings. Right. I'm sure LeBron would feel. If some little kid is listening to him who lives in Memphis and is proud of where they live and feels bad about it, I'm sure LeBron would feel bad about that. But that bad feeling, were he to encounter that kid, is maybe not enough that he shouldn't actually publicly state what he. His opinion about stuff.

[Rich Kleiman]

So guess what?

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, you're absolutely right again.

[Rich Kleiman]

There's people in Memphis that don't want to be in Memphis.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. There are people in New York who don't want to be in New York.

[Rich Kleiman]

And guess where else LeBron don't want to be. Akan, Right? He's from there.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

You don't want to be there. He just outgrew it, which is fine.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

But that don't mean. That don't mean that. It's a. It's. It's. Although the world goes crazy, obviously, whatever he's saying.

[Max Kellerman]

There are people in LA who don't want to be in la. You think?

[Rich Kleiman]

I hear it all the time.

[Max Kellerman]

I live in New York. You think I'm offended if someone says, no, I don't want to be in New York or la?

[Rich Kleiman]

You talk about Cleveland.

[Max Kellerman]

Couldn't care less.

[Rich Kleiman]

Like, all of my life.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

I have never heard people talk in a positive light about Cleveland. Not one time.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Cleveland's the butt of the joke. The mistake on the lake or buy the lake.

[Rich Kleiman]

Watch your mouth, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, that's what they say.

[Rich Kleiman]

I'm just telling you.

[Max Kellerman]

See, right away you got your feelings. You just were making the point that you don't get your feelings hurt. At least I was making that point. Let's say you were. And now you contradict yourself.

[Rich Kleiman]

Here's how this works. Yes, I could talk about Cleveland. Right? You can.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. Yes, that's true.

[Rich Kleiman]

That's just how it works. That's true. And if you're from Memphis, they could talk about Memphis.

[Max Kellerman]

But LeBron can't.

[Rich Kleiman]

LeBron can't.

[Max Kellerman]

But he did.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, but he shouldn't.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, you just flipped it all around.

[Rich Kleiman]

I don't care.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay? I don't care. But that's. In other words, that's why people are offended, because he's not from Memphis. People in Akron aren't gonna get mad at LeBron for saying something because he has earned the right to talk about it. But he's not from Memphis. He shouldn't talk about it.

[Rich Kleiman]

And a man's on the golf course, he's having a good cold winter or whatever, hanging out with his golf buddies. I don't care. You know what? I like to see him enjoying life for a guy that had to be on every day of his life, every hour, every second. The time he can get on a golf course and just be a normal human being.

[Max Kellerman]

But wait, it's have at it.

[Rich Kleiman]

He should have rolled on the ground and start rolling around like a little

[Max Kellerman]

kid doing the thing with the legs where he's going around in circles. Look, the fact is, if you were to rank all the 30 NBA cities or there are fewer than 30 cities, Memphis is last. Some cities have two teams like LA and New York. But if you were to rank all the NBA cities and you try to objectively, as much as possible, say, what has the best this, what has the best that someone's gonna come out at or near the bottom, right? And it's okay if that's Memphis. People in Memphis might not love that idea. And especially I think they don't love the idea that he says Nashville because that could be tied into class and maybe race too in a way, you know?

[Rich Kleiman]

You know, I wish they had a team in Nashville.

[Max Kellerman]

Nashville's better.

[Rich Kleiman]

I wish they have a team there. We have an officer. But listen, on the flip side, I guarantee you this, if you start talking to him about Memphis and their music scene and what it meant to From Suave House 8 ball MJG to all the other things that I know Memphis is really great at Bill street, the guys tumbling down Bill street barbecue. There's a lot of things positives about Memphis, right? But for NBA players, they just don't like to go there. Whoop de do. It's fine.

[Max Kellerman]

All right.

[Rich Kleiman]

And Max is between Max and the NBA guys, they don't like to go there.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm going to give you.

[Rich Kleiman]

I personally don't mind. I got love in Memphis.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm going to give you a five minute max. It might be like a three minute max. So Rich, I don't know if you're aware of this, but Major League Baseball, which used to be the number one minute max, it'll be time it. Major League Baseball, which used to have the biggest sports economy in this country of all the major leagues, has fallen into third place in recent years. The economies of the NFL passed it years ago and the economy of the NBA passed it in the not too distant past. And then Major League Baseball made changes. They could see that for years you heard it. Older people like baseball. Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

It's America's game.

[Max Kellerman]

And first of all, baseball is an inferior consumer product to football and basketball. Just objectively. By the way, it's my favorite because I grew up. Yankees were my first team that I love. But I understand it's my favorite because culturally I love baseball growing up. Right? Same thing with soccer. Like, soccer fans get so offended when. When it's like, yeah, as a consumer sport, it's inferior to baseball, to basketball and football. They get offended. I'm a baseball. I don't get offended. It's just true. Basketball and football are superior consumer products. Okay, so football passes baseball, basketball passes baseball. Baseball starts making changes, right? To get it back to a sport that people like more. They make the bags a little bigger so there are more stolen bases. They outlaw the shift so batting averages can go up. Different things like that, a pitch clock, so the game is faster. And it worked. Baseball's on the upswing now. In fact, baseball's economy right now is slightly bigger. MLB's is slightly bigger than the NBA's, so it moved from third back into second place. However, if you asked yourself which league you'd rather be, you'd still rather be the NBA. Because the NBA is more culturally relevant than. Than mlb. Its stars are better known. Youth culture relates to it more. And the best example I can give you is the New York Yankees, who are the biggest brand in the history of baseball by far. And it's not close. 27 championships. Babe Ruth and Mickey Medler, Joe DiMaggio and everybody, you know, Derek Jeter, and they're the biggest brand ever. Their pitching staff, this year, through six games, they're starting. Their starting starters have the lowest ERA for starters through the first six games since forever. It's the lowest in the history of baseball. First you're hearing of that, right? No one cares. No one cares.

[Rich Kleiman]

But why don't. Why don't the publications talk about it?

[Max Kellerman]

Just don't. Baseball is not. First of all, it's a very small sample size. But you would think because it's the Yankees, that Cam Schlitler is the Yankees best pitcher this year. He's a. This is technically his rookie year, though. He pitched last year. Sounds like a pitcher's name. Including in the playoffs. He is arguably at this moment the best pitcher in baseball when you include his whole sample size, including his playoffs, where he was unhittable. Right. He's immediately being compared through his first 18 starts or whatever it is, to skiings or to school ball. And he's a little better than those guys through it. In fact, since he started, he's just the sample size of him as a starter since he broke into the league, probably the best pitcher in baseball through 18 starts or whatever it is. Schlitler. First time you're hearing his name right. Baseball is the second biggest economy but still is facing a problem in terms of culture. They need to market the stars. Kids still don't care about the biggest names in the sport. And I'm hoping that can change. But as of right now, I don't see evidence I can help baseball.

[Rich Kleiman]

Max.

[Max Kellerman]

How long is that? 3.

[Rich Kleiman]

Great job. Great job. I can help baseball.

[Max Kellerman]

How do you. How do you help baseball? I want to hear this. You're a man of solutions.

[Rich Kleiman]

I can consult for them.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Kleiman]

I can help them for sure. We can help them.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Kleiman]

But I always thought about this. How. Why don't baseball take a little page out of the NBA's book? I don't think you could do this in NFL because it's not. Is becoming this. But I don't think it's football art. America's football isn't played globally the way it's played domestically.

[Max Kellerman]

Neither is baseball, really. It is played in certain hot spots.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, but you can go to Japan. You got China.

[Max Kellerman]

You have first of all, Japan especially. And Latin America.

[Rich Kleiman]

Latin America. Why don't we have MLB teams in Latin America? At least one or two, maybe three or four.

[Max Kellerman]

We absolutely should.

[Rich Kleiman]

Mexico City should have a team.

[Max Kellerman]

First of all, Puerto Rico. You don't need a passport. Nothing for Puerto Rico. It's a short flight. Yeah. Dominican Republic.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yes.

[Rich Kleiman]

I think it could be pretty cool.

[Max Kellerman]

You could have Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Mexico.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes. And maybe one more.

[Max Kellerman]

I think you need a certain level of government stability.

[Rich Kleiman]

Fair point.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. So. But I would say, well, Mexico City,

[Rich Kleiman]

you could definitely do it. Puerto Rico, you could definitely do it.

[Max Kellerman]

Puerto Rico, you could definitely do it. Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

And Mexico city.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, maybe. Dr. Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

I'm just saying. But that's not what got a lot

[Max Kellerman]

of good players in Venezuela too. I mean, there would be players from all over, but that's just major league players would have to live there half the time.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, that's just an idea. But I would love to sit down with the mlb.

[Max Kellerman]

I think it'd be a hard sell. Puerto Rico. You got to live in Puerto Rico half the year.

[Rich Kleiman]

Not a hard sell.

[Max Kellerman]

That's not a hard sell.

[Rich Kleiman]

No. I would love to sit down with the MLB and talk about what is their strategy going forward and how to help add to the awareness of the game and build stories around key players and so on and so forth. Because the MBLB used to have swag. They lost it. And I also think college basketball lost its swag too.

[Max Kellerman]

You think college basketball lost its swag?

[Rich Kleiman]

I do.

[Max Kellerman]

I think college basketball right now, the men's game, maybe because of nil, is more interesting than it's been in a long time.

[Rich Kleiman]

Long say interesting. I said swag.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Kleiman]

When we were growing up and what made me think about this, I saw a picture of the Fab Five and this is. This doesn't. This doesn't have to do with the players. This has to do with the universities and also the shoe companies.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Kleiman]

I saw a picture of the Fab Five and maybe this is just timing, but I'm looking at the Fab Five. I remember a time where the Fab Five, when they broke out, they broke out the black socks.

[Max Kellerman]

That went.

[Rich Kleiman]

If it was a viral back then. That went viral.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

They also used to debut the sneakers. They made the sneakers hot.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Kleiman]

By the way, they made the. Remember that time I was telling you about? I had those Barkleys.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Kleiman]

The Fab Five. Made those Barclays. The Fab Five.

[Max Kellerman]

Jalen Rose's mother invented a name and now everyone. You got Jalen's everywhere.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, that's a whole nother story.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but that's partly because of the Fab Five.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes, but then there used to be a store back in the day called Champs and you can go in Champs and are they still around and you can buy the authentic short.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

So we talked about Bibby and Simon, the Arizona team that debuted. You had the Kentucky teams, You had the.

[Max Kellerman]

You're cherry picking the past. Like to me it was the Fab Five and the UNLV running Rebels team. Right. That had.

[Rich Kleiman]

But also the Razorbacks with Nolan Richardson, those teams, the Georgetown teams. I'm just saying that this, there's something missing in the mids college basketball game.

[Max Kellerman]

Guys don't stay as long anymore. Yeah, but I think. But I think that's changing now with that.

[Rich Kleiman]

I think the shoe companies could help. Yeah, well that's also a good point, Dan. The wow factor also. But I don't know if you can ever get that back because of social media.

[Max Kellerman]

I think NIL is going to result in players staying in college longer. Right. Us getting to know the players more and the men's game improving, you know, for years the women's game got better and better because there was more money in college than in the wnba. We gotta See what happens now after this last deal with wnba, but now the men's game. There are lots of guys who might look and go, I might be better off. Cause, you know, it used to be, man, if I get hurt, like, I'd like to stay in school, but if I get hurt, I'm sacrificing, you know, like 100%. I got generational wealth on the line, 100%. But now if you can get 3, 4, 5 million in college, still depends

[Rich Kleiman]

on what pick you are.

[Max Kellerman]

It does, but still. But you can have great players who are going to get picked, you know, outside the top 10.

[Rich Kleiman]

But also what helped is little things like the design of uniforms. All these little things goes into the swag thing. I'm not talking about necessarily the basketball play. I'm talking about just different things that kind of made you even more interested.

[Max Kellerman]

I even remember, like, I even think of like the PAC 12 when in football going back 10 or 15 years when they changed the uniform up in Washington, right? Like they got that, that like lime green, right? They added certain guys were the T shirts. All of a sudden people were like, oh, wait a minute, I might want to play up there. Yeah.

[Advertisement Voice]

Snoring, gasping during sleep, Feeling fatigued. Wake up to Zep Bound Terzepatide, the first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity. Zeb Bound is an injectable prescription medicine that may help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea and obesity to improve their osa. Zebound should be used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity. Zebound is Approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15mg injection. Zetbound contains tirzepatide and should not be used with other tirzepatide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Do not share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take Zeb Bound if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, depression or suicidal thoughts before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor, call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lilly.com Zepbound in its delivery device base and Quickpin are registered trademarks owned or licensed by eli Lilly Company, its subsidiaries or affiliates.

This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi, Fi, phone, TV, mobile services plus 24. 7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business, so visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Viori, I gotta say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably gonna see me wearing some Vuori Sunday performance joggers that they have. It's made with four way performance stretch fabric, one of the most comfortable things you own. You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to Vuoria.com Simmons and you get 20% off your first purchase with Vuori. V-U-O-R-I.com Simmons enjoy. Free shipping on all US orders over $75, plus free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

[Max Kellerman]

What's the biggest story heading into the Final Four weekend? Because I got the answer.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, I know what you're going to say.

[Max Kellerman]

What?

[Rich Kleiman]

Michigan versus Arizona is the national championship game?

[Max Kellerman]

No, I think that is. But I don't think that's the biggest story. The biggest story of the weekend heading into the Final Four is dan Hurley and UConn. Because, Rich, the only time any college men's team or the last time a college men's team have won three out of four national titles.

[Rich Kleiman]

Titles.

[Max Kellerman]

You have to go back to John Wooden, right? They won. What is it, eight out of nine or whatever it was. And that's because guys had to play out their whole college careers. And John Wooden, one of the great coaches of all time, had Kareem Abdul Jabbar back when he was Lou Alcindor, the most dominant college player of all time, followed by Bill Walton who was like the second most dominant college player of all time. And the tournament back then was anywhere between 23 and 25 teams. Right. But in a field of 64 or 68, depending on how you want to count. Like I remember a little more baseball. I remember when I was a kid, my dad telling me about the Yankees dynasties when he was a kid. He grew up in the Bronx by Yankee Stadium and they won five World Series in a row. But back then, once you made the playoffs, you were in the World series. There were two leagues, 10 in each league, American National League. The winners played each other. So if you were the best team in your league, you were in the World Series every year. Well, of course, you might win a whole bunch of World Series if you're really good. By the time I was an adult, the Yankees had. Or in baseball, there were three tiers of playoffs.

[Rich Kleiman]

Right, Right.

[Max Kellerman]

So the greatest dynasty of all time was not the Yankees from the 50s. It was the Yankees in the late 90s. They won three out of four world. Sorry. They won four out of five World Series, including a three peat. They came an out away from winning five out of six in a three tier plus. Never going to happen again. That's the greatest dynasty of all time. You have to adjust for the era and the difficulty. If Dan Hurley, in this day and age wins three out of four national titles, that surpasses to me.

[Rich Kleiman]

Anybody, the.

[Max Kellerman]

Anybody.

[Rich Kleiman]

That's it.

[Max Kellerman]

That's the story right now especially. You're going to have to be either Michigan or Arizona. You, if you win your final four,

[Rich Kleiman]

well, you got to be Illinois.

[Max Kellerman]

You got to be. You got to beat the fight in the lineup. Right. You got to do that first. But even if you do, you're what's waiting on the other side is the team that guys like me think that's going to be the national champion. To do that, to win three out of four.

[Rich Kleiman]

I know that would be.

[Max Kellerman]

That's the story to me.

[Rich Kleiman]

He would dep. No, I don't think people would expedite him to the top.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no. Right. They're not going to fast track him ahead of Coach K, let's say.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, Izzo and all those guys. But they would definitely. He would definitely join in.

[Max Kellerman]

He might jump. Izzo.

[Rich Kleiman]

You think so?

[Max Kellerman]

He might. I mean, like he, like when people talk about. If you. Okay. It depends what happens going forward.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Like if he falls off. But if they remain a powerhouse for another five or 10 years, he's a damn good coach. He has a run of three out of four.

[Rich Kleiman]

And this is why I think some guys are just made for college. And I know you saw Izzo the other day. He turned down the Sun's job.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

And rightfully so. Yeah, he should have. Because Izzo is Michigan State.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

That's just what it is. He does an unbelievable job in molding guys and, and, and, and if a kid played at Michigan State and then they come to the NBA. One thing for sure, that's like going to San Antonio.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Like you're going to know how to play, they're going to be coachable and all those. For the most part, and all those different things. But I will ask you this now. Who's your number one pick coming out in the draft?

[Max Kellerman]

I still go.

[Rich Kleiman]

Because you get a little. The last person I saw play well,

[Max Kellerman]

I still go acuff. I still go acuff. I was not encouraged by what I saw in the game they lost. I was not against Arizona. I don't think he played well. I think he was affected by the NBA level players on the other team. And that gave me pause. Yes, but. So you could argue Peterson maybe, but I still like Acuff. But let me say one more thing about UConn. Considering what the women have done, Rich. Throughout their history. If they go three out of four, because it's not like they never won a championship before on the men's side, that's the greatest college basketball institution of all. Of all time. And it's not that close. If the men pull off three out of four.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I mean, even now you can probably

[Rich Kleiman]

argue UConn is basketball. UConn. When you see college brand UConn, you automatically think, once upon a time it

[Max Kellerman]

was UCLA, then it was Duke. But actually, I think UConn, if they get three out of four, supplants them both.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah. Duke.

[Max Kellerman]

Duke, because of what the women have

[Rich Kleiman]

done, gives you something different. But yes, I agree with that. And the number one pick for me is still Caleb Wilson.

[Max Kellerman]

Still Caleb Wilson.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah. I'll educate you on that.

[Max Kellerman]

We should have his agent on just like to. As a guy.

[Rich Kleiman]

We should. Yeah, we should.

[Max Kellerman]

We should.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

We should do that. We should have.

[Rich Kleiman]

We should do that.

[Max Kellerman]

You're going to show up like Clark Kent glasses.

[Rich Kleiman]

I don't know.

[Max Kellerman]

You have to put on glasses.

[Rich Kleiman]

I don't know why you say that. First of all, I'm just telling you when, when you talk about. There's always a thing called a redraft. And I think there's several guys that could be the number one pick. And I'm not even saying he would go number one.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

I'm just giving you who you think

[Max Kellerman]

in the redraft will go number one.

[Advertisement Voice]

Upside.

[Rich Kleiman]

When you talk about the upside when they start breaking down this young man's film and they interview him. I'm just telling you. And he won't go. Because again, people, it's a tough spot to be in when you have to make these picks. But the smart guy. I'm telling you.

[Max Kellerman]

You want to do emails, let's do them.

[Rich Kleiman]

We got a lot of emails on here.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I see this. Oh, this one is to me. Rich, Big love I'm sending you for taking us way back with the vintage dope ass filas. Correct. I had some, some blue filas on the other day.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes, you did.

[Max Kellerman]

But you didn't. Next time you got to rock them with the full fila velour jockey.

[Rich Kleiman]

Thank you. I told him that. Correct. I told him that. He didn't listen.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a good idea.

[Rich Kleiman]

That's a bad stylist.

[Max Kellerman]

Kiersa, Love having you back on TV as eye candy. Look at that.

[Rich Kleiman]

Eye candy.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Am I a silver fox? Is that what that with gold? Is that what this is? Do I qualify?

[Rich Kleiman]

You're like a silver squirrel.

[Max Kellerman]

Big up to my brother Rich too. Ah, your sister. See you. Keep up the stupendous job, guys. Peace and love, Kiersa. Okay, thank you, Kiersa. Yeah, I think that was. This might be our best email. Extremely. Well.

[Rich Kleiman]

I love that email.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a great, great email. Blake from Boca Raton. You ready for this? What's the worst trade in NBA history? My answer is the Clippers OKC trade for Shea. What do you guys think? Big fan. I think he's right, Rich. I think he's right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Once again, it's after Tunk.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, here's the thing you could. The one that my. Everyone talks about Luka for A.D. i disagree. Like, let's see what happens with A.D. in Atlanta. Right? It's not his. What Dallas does with AD after the fact is up to them. Let's see what happens in Atlanta and everything. Let's see what happens to Luka and the Lakers. My mind goes to the Boston trade with the Nets when Prokorov bought the team and he wanted to field a winner right away. That's up there because they turned Garnett into, among other things, Tatum and Brown. Right. However, in the hands of another franchise, you might not wind up with Tatum and Brown. They were just draft picks. In the hands of the Celtics, you could have wound up with Markel Fultz, you could have wound up with someone else. So I can't count that as the worst trade because most franchises do not wind up with both Tatum and Brown out of that. You have to credit the Celtics for drafting. Well, that doesn't mean it's the worst trade for Brooklyn, who did get Kevin Garnett out of it. But, but Rich Shai was already in the league when the, when OKC made that trade. He was already in the league.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes, he was. Yes he was. But I think it's less about the trade and it's more about the thought of having to win now. I think what you can learn from

[Max Kellerman]

that trade, the Clippers were up against

[Rich Kleiman]

what you can learn in the future. What you can learn is. Ah, not so fast. Because names don't necessarily bring you championships.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Kleiman]

Have to build culture. You have to.

[Max Kellerman]

In other words, you can't just parachute Kawhi Leonard in with his crime partner. And by the way, they tried this once in the NBA.

[Rich Kleiman]

It very seldom works.

[Max Kellerman]

It worked one time and not even in the first year. LeBron James, who was the best player in basketball? There are four of the. There were four best players in basketball at the time. LeBron and Kobe and Wade and Duncan. Those are the four best players in basketball. They took two of those guys and they perished. One was already on the team with Pat Riley and Eric Spoelstra and they parachuted.

[Rich Kleiman]

Eric Spoelstra was.

[Max Kellerman]

Wasn't a coach yet, but Pat. But he was in the organization.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And. And they parachuted LeBron James, who had a pre existing relationship with Wade and on top of that, Chris Bosh, who was a perennial all star. And they still didn't win the championship in the first year. Right?

[Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

And speaking of four, I saw something the other day that wasn't. But that was. It wasn't true, but I don't know. I won't be petty about it. It's fine, but let's go.

[Max Kellerman]

What'd you see?

[Rich Kleiman]

No, it was just a comment that was made about how LeBron got to Miami and it was. But anyway. But no, but I didn't want to lose this thought. When you talked about the teams, it very seldom works. Just like a mid season trade very seldom worked. But the one team that it didn't work on was the 2004 Lakers. That didn't. All those names. They didn't. Right, but they didn't. But I will say both of those teams did make it to the Finals.

[Max Kellerman]

Malone and Peyton were past their prime.

[Rich Kleiman]

They were past their prime, but.

[Max Kellerman]

And Shahid was, too.

[Rich Kleiman]

Actually, Shahid made it to the finals. And that Lakers team, they at least made it to the finals, right?

[Max Kellerman]

They both made it to the finals.

[Rich Kleiman]

They both made it to the finals.

[Max Kellerman]

Few and far between.

[Rich Kleiman]

It very seldom works.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I have worst trade. What's your worst trade? I think it was the shade trade. You look at what it did to the Clippers and what it did for. You know, the Clippers had this little window where they could maybe steal the town temporarily from the Lakers, maybe in a way make some Clippers fans.

[Rich Kleiman]

But Kawhi.

[Max Kellerman]

And Kawhi was insisting on Paul George. So Ballmer, I'm sure, felt like, okay, we have to make this deal. But he created an OKC dynasty.

[Rich Kleiman]

If you want to pick on something, you could pick on the picks, no pun intended. But you can't pick on the player because once again, it takes a lot. What has been positioned for and around Shay and how that looks in OKC may not have looked the same. You can't go there. I have one.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

Hey. Hey. Jay from Vegas. You've had about four conversations on great rappers and rap albums and have not mentioned Eminem once. Why? Because Max is racist. That's why. That's why I'm telling him.

[Max Kellerman]

No. This is what I say, Rich, about Eminem. I think. When I think about. When I think about Max. No, I don't.

[Rich Kleiman]

I do not want Jimmy Iovine calling me because he'll go, no, I like.

[Max Kellerman]

No, not anti Eminem. This is what I'm saying. There are four rappers I can think of in the kind of modern, ish game who are still sometimes making music and stuff like that.

[Rich Kleiman]

Who.

[Max Kellerman]

Most rappers. This is true of Kanye a lot as rapper things. A very overrated rapper. Great producer.

[Rich Kleiman]

Like, you think Kanye's a overrated rapper.

[Max Kellerman]

Way overrated. He's fine, but he's just fine. The problem with. And I'm using him. Oh, you said as a rap. Strictly as a rap lyrically. Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

Not a song maker.

[Max Kellerman]

No. But his rams are incredible. But a lot of. That's the beat, right?

[Rich Kleiman]

I just.

[Max Kellerman]

As a rapper, see a lot of. How many sessions have you been in or around, Right? No, I'm just saying sessions.

[Rich Kleiman]

I've been in a ton of sessions, right?

[Max Kellerman]

Where.

[Rich Kleiman]

With the best of the best, where

[Max Kellerman]

people, you get open, right? And as you get open, if you're freestyling or whatever, there's an opportunity for a rhyme, right? You say you can't pause open. You can't. You can't. If we have gotten to the point, as a. As a society where you can't say a rapper gets open without getting paused, we can't have conversations anymore. You can't even have a conversation anymore. It gets to the point. When I was in elementary School, P.S. 41, if you didn't. If you weren't like this, you would get punched in the chest open. Boom. You get punched in the chest. We gotta walk around like this.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, no, we don't.

[Max Kellerman]

Metaphorically, in society. I can't say a rapper gets open.

[Rich Kleiman]

Max. I'm sorry.

[Max Kellerman]

Anyway, I'm sorry. The point is. The point is, I'm gonna test this out. So you beat a session and a rapper gets open, wide open. All right, All right, listen.

[Rich Kleiman]

Come on, make your point.

[Max Kellerman]

The point is that they will allow the opportunity. And anyone who's ever freestyled knows this. You hear something that's gonna. And that opportunity of a rhyme affects what you're gonna say. Now you're no longer in control of what you want to say. Here are the four MCs that I hear in the. That are still around and producing music that are the master of the words. Right? The word, the opportunity for a rhyme does not influence what they want to say. Their thoughts do. And they make the language do exactly what they want it to do. They make the words do what they want. Eminem is one of them. Jay is another.

[Rich Kleiman]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Lil Wayne is another.

[Rich Kleiman]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

And Drake is another. Actually. Okay. Those four. And you could say, oh, but this one doesn't write there. I'm saying what I'm. Kendrick is a different style rapper. No, I don't. I wouldn't put Kendrick in that category, even if you might put Kendrick above those guys. But it's a different.

[Rich Kleiman]

It's a J. Cole future.

[Max Kellerman]

No, those four, okay. I've never heard them say something where it was like, oh, they heard a chance to rhyme a word, so they did that instead. You know what I mean? They make those words do what they want them.

[Rich Kleiman]

I mean, I'm not saying that makes

[Max Kellerman]

them better than everyone. I'm just saying that's a quality they have.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, you can't dispute those four you named.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Kleiman]

There could be more.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not saying that's 1, 2, 3, 4.

[Rich Kleiman]

I'm saying that's a.

[Max Kellerman]

You could. You might look at a basketball player, say, here are the guys who can do X, Y, and Z. It doesn't mean they're the best, but Eminem is one of those dudes. But it's like Tupac, Right? I could hear a Tupac song and like it or an Eminem song and like it. And you can acknowledge what they're doing is at a very high level without. Without that album getting the most burn in rotation on your.

[Rich Kleiman]

Tupac has some great albums to give birth, but not.

[Max Kellerman]

But for me, they never got heavy rotation.

[Rich Kleiman]

I understand where.

[Max Kellerman]

And Eminem was the same way.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Well, why haven't you mentioned Eminem since.

[Rich Kleiman]

Actually, I did mention Eminem.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

I rock with Eminem. But there's people I want to listen to, like in my car. And then there's. Yeah. And then there's people that. If you're talking about bar for bar. And in a moment.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

That I want to. That I want to hear.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. You hear an Eminem song. Come on. And you're like, he's nice. Yeah, but that's not the same thing as. As. And then also, it's just your favorites. I bring this guy up all the time. I'm not saying Ghostface is the greatest rapper who ever lived. I'm saying he's my favorite in terms of. And that's music, man. Music. Like this idea of ranking rappers and stuff. It's art. Whatever you like.

[Rich Kleiman]

My ear and your ear are two different ears.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? That's fine now.

[Rich Kleiman]

I don't know.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, well, James has one.

[Rich Kleiman]

Oh, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

More music. Since you both love music so much, are you guys ever gonna drop a Spotify game over playlist? We need it.

[Rich Kleiman]

We don't want to do that. You know what I want to do? What? A versus you wanna do a versus me versus you?

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, I'll do a versus all day.

[Rich Kleiman]

And that could be limited to hip hop. I limited to hip hop. We could do no hip hop. I'm a real music.

[Max Kellerman]

We could have a hip hop one and then a non hip hop one. I am.

[Rich Kleiman]

No, no, no. I'm a real music guy, Just so you know.

[Max Kellerman]

You remember when I went. When we. We were at Vinyl Night?

[Rich Kleiman]

I'm an Amy.

[Max Kellerman]

Remember I got rookie of the year at Vinyl Night.

[Rich Kleiman]

You did?

[Max Kellerman]

I did.

[Rich Kleiman]

You did. Who took you to Vinyl Night?

[Max Kellerman]

You took me to vinyl.

[Rich Kleiman]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. More than once.

[Rich Kleiman]

Yeah, yeah, it was good. That was like a test. We remember. We were testing for the show. Yeah. It was a good audience.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Kleiman]

But no.

[Max Kellerman]

Did we get open?

[Rich Kleiman]

I know today has to be Friday. It.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Kleiman]

But no. Max. Great show. What do you got this weekend?

[Max Kellerman]

I got boxing.

[Rich Kleiman]

Boxing? You gotta go to. You gotta go to Vegas.

[Max Kellerman]

I Gotta go to Vegas Saturday. Yeah.

[Rich Kleiman]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

And yeah. And then Monday, I'm doing the show from Vegas.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, guess what I got.

[Max Kellerman]

What do you got?

[Rich Kleiman]

I'll be watching.

[Max Kellerman]

Look at that. Wow. They came through. You said, where are the donuts?

[Rich Kleiman]

Where is the donuts?

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, for our 50th show, I'm suing. That hit me right in the eye.

[Rich Kleiman]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. Not the good eye. Oh, man. I can't even. Let me just take a piece of one.

[Rich Kleiman]

That's fine. That's really good.

[Max Kellerman]

You know how good donuts are? This is why parents who are like, I don't let my kid have soda. I don't let him have this. Why? When they're kids, they can eat all the bullshit and they're okay. When you get old, you get fat if you eat this. When you're a kid running around, have the soda.

[Rich Kleiman]

Well, one thing for sure, I used to have to get the donuts ready for my dad in the morning. They would deliver them for the store. Fresh baked donuts, twisty jelly donuts. The coffee. Make the coffee pot oh, so good. People will come out of that store just for those donuts. So good. They're great. Now this is how you end the show.

[Max Kellerman]

21 and over in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 and over and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- Gamble or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchattincut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.

[Advertisement Voice]

USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and Sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With usaa, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals. Free samples, zero pressure right now. Get up to 45% off site wide. Plus get a free professional [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply.