Miami Vibes, NBA Playoffs, Devin Booker Leaving the Suns? | Game Over

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: Miami Vibes, NBA Playoffs, Devin Booker Leaving the Suns?

Date: May 1, 2026 | Host: The Ringer

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Overview

On this episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul broadcast from Miami, fusing laid-back “Miami Vice” energy with deep NBA playoff analysis and signature storytelling. They dissect shocking playoff outcomes, legacy-level questions about NBA stars, and dig into recent speculation around Devin Booker’s future. The show combines cultural banter, in-depth basketball breakdowns, quick-hitting takes, and listener Q&A, maintaining the relaxed but insightful vibe fans love.

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Episode Breakdown

Miami Vibes, Party Talk, and Banter (01:22 – 06:00)

• Max and Rich set the scene from Miami, leaning into a “Crockett & Tubbs” aesthetic with playful conversation about style, social circles, and parties (Dan Marino, Kevin Hart, Draymond Green, Al Harrington make cameo mentions).
• Digression about Miami fashion: socks vs. no socks, the importance of linen, and the social ritual of “being seen” (03:33–04:35).
• Quick asides about foodie moments in Miami ("Fries. Who doesn't love fries?" — Rich, 05:07).
• The easy camaraderie and banter set a relaxed tone before basketball discussion takes over.

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Nuggets Eliminated: The Jokic Legacy Debate (06:01 – 16:44)

The Game Situation & Jokic Expectations

• Live check-ins on Timberwolves-Nuggets playoff closeout ("Score is 195, Minnesota. 2:38 left." — Max, 05:53).
• Max sets up the high expectations for Nikola Jokic, contrasting him with legends:

  "When you’re compared to the very best who ever did it, there are levels. You can’t lose a series when your second-best player, Jamal Murray, has been available all series..." (08:00)

• Rich defends Jokic but admits:

  "I’m not saying Joker shouldn’t still win... but those are two really big pieces." (08:35)

All-Time Greats Comparison

• Max draws parallels with LeBron, Jordan, Larry Bird—emphasizing the ultra-high standard for lasting legacy:

  "Magic Johnson, he’s not going out like that. They're just not going out like that... Jokic is top 20, but you can't put him top 10.” (13:00–13:31)

• Rich:

  “Well, it looks like it's going to happen.” (09:45)

Sports Narrative, Pressure, and Final Score

• Max and Rich analyze how playoff narratives get shaped in real time ("Do it now. There's no more time. Time is running out..." — Rich, 13:49).
• Nuggets lose; both agree Denver must "shuffle the deck."

  “Not even like Aaron Gordon is just the kind of player you want on your team ... Just the kind of dude I want on my team. Injury prone.” — Max (16:22)

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Knicks Demolish Hawks: Adjustments, Coaching & Playoff DNA (16:44 – 27:20)

Historic Blowout

• Max:

  "I’ve never seen anything like that Knicks Hawks first half in my life, ever." (16:56)

• The Knicks go on a devastating run, the Hawks demoralized by halftime (Knicks tripled Hawks' score at one point).

Playoff Willpower and Coaching

• Rich:

  "But sometimes in the playoffs, it's exactly what you just said. Who wants it more?" (18:07)

• Both analyze the importance of discipline:

  “Discipline is the hardest muscle to exercise in that situation...and the Knicks had it. The Hawks did not.” — Max (19:18)

• Praise for Knicks coach Mike Brown and adapting lineups: "He didn’t listen to the noise about, you know, Bridges. Bridges had a game tonight, so." — Rich (20:52)

Hawks Future Outlook

• Rich is less disappointed by Hawks' season:

  "No one expected them to be second round playoffs... The way they lost tonight may put a little damper on their season from a perception perspective, but a loss is a loss..." (23:13)

• Max counters that the way they lost could be demoralizing for the franchise (25:16).
• Both agree Hawks have some pieces (JJ, Alexander-Walker, expiring contracts, and draft picks) but need more to compete (26:15–27:03).

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Sixers Force Game 7 vs Celtics: Pressure, Playoff Styles, and Physicality (29:10 – 35:00)

Sixers Even Series & The Boston Pressure

• Breaking news: Sixers beat Celtics 106–93.
• Rich called it:

  "Last show...I said Philly's going to fight... Get to a game 7, anything can happen..." (29:14)

• Heavy pressure on Boston, especially with Tatum now carrying an additional injury.

Playoff Style Differences

• Max and Rich breakdown why Boston’s reliance on threes can backfire in a Game 7:

  "When you’re taking a lot of threes in a Game Seven and you’re not on, it can go the other way really fast. Gotta have guys putting pressure on the rim, getting downhill..." — Rich (30:38)

• Max:

  "Athletic ability plays up in the playoffs...when you say 'pressure on the rim,' you're talking about those kind of players." (32:20)

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NBA Team Legacy Talk: Celtics’ Ultimate Mount Rushmore (37:19 – 43:10)

• Rich wonders who would be on Boston Celtics’ Mount Rushmore, restricting to pre-1990 legends:

  "It's got to be Bob Coozie...Bill Russell has to be on. Larry Bird has to be on..." — Max (37:56)

• Both reminisce about Larry Bird’s greatness and universal respect from peers:

  "Black guys wore Bird’s jersey." — Rich (39:46)

• Modern Celtics like Pierce, Tatum, and Garnett get shout-outs but admitted “the only ones with rings” are truly legendary.

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Lakers, LeBron, and Playoff Legacy (43:11 – 48:56)

• Max presses Rich on whether another early Lakers playoff exit impacts LeBron’s legacy:

  "There's nothing that can happen that can be bad for LeBron James...what he does do, adds to his legacy." (44:26)

• Rich:

  "LeBron's legacy is etched in stone. It's been since 2016." (44:15)

• They agree criticism at this stage is irrelevant, and LeBron’s “gravy years” only add, never subtract.

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Devin Booker and the Suns: Should He Want Out? (49:15 – 58:15)

• Max and Rich analyze Suns owner Mat Ishbia’s public commitment to Devin Booker:

  “Devin Booker’s our franchise player. And like I said, we’re going to win a championship here with Devin Booker...” (Quoted by Max, 50:56)

• Discussion pivots to whether Booker should want to leave, factoring in loyalty, business ties, and the reality of constructing a contender:

  "You know how hard it is to win a championship? It is extremely hard to win a championship..." — Rich (51:52)

• Max:

  "Devin Booker needs to be playing with at least one other player at least as good as him, plus great role players, plus a great coach to have a shot at winning a championship." (57:45)

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“Best City in America” & Culture Segment (58:51 – 63:12)

• Fun rapid-fire: LA vs. New York vs. Miami vs. Chicago.
• Both ultimately lean toward Los Angeles if money is no object for “quality of life,” though Max advocates New York’s advantages for young kids and cultural experience.
• Chicago and Detroit discussed as underrated, with lifestyle and weather factoring in.
• Notable moment:

  "If I was a young single person, I'd rather be Miami or New York... If you have a family, LA can't beat it..." — Max (59:45)

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Listener Email: Cologne Recommendations & Style Talk (65:13–70:00)

• Question from Abu: “How many colognes do you think someone should own? What are your favorites?”

• Rich, emphatic:

  "At least 20. I have more." (65:40) "Depending on what I have on, what city I’m in, the temperature—it’s a lot of different codes.” (68:53)

• Max:

  “I’m in that 8% of people who sweat doesn’t smell—so I don’t wear it.” (66:07)

• Amusing back-and-forth about old-school cologne (Drakkar Noir, Brute, Chanel, etc.), generational style, and the connection of scent to color/clothing.

• Ending on cereal milk preferences and debate (Cinnamon Toast Crunch lauded as the king).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Discipline is the hardest muscle to exercise—and the only thing that can help you there.” — Max (19:18)
• “All you can do is compare what this dude was doing to the league at the time. Everything gets built on that.” — Max (38:09)
• “LeBron’s legacy is etched in stone. It’s been like that since 2016.” — Rich (44:15)
• “If I was a young single person, I'd rather be Miami or New York... If you have a family, LA can't beat it.” — Max (59:45)
• “At least 20 [colognes]. I have more.” — Rich (65:40)
• "You're really showing your age, Max." — Rich, after Max references Drakkar Noir (68:13)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:22–06:00: Miami vibes, social circles, fashion/fun banter
• 06:01–16:44: Nuggets elimination, Jokic legacy, Denver future
• 16:44–27:20: Knicks’ historic blowout over Hawks, playoff toughness, coaching
• 29:10–35:00: Sixers force Game 7, Celtics pressure, playoff styles
• 37:19–43:10: Celtics’ franchise Mount Rushmore, Bird’s legacy
• 43:11–48:56: Lakers, LeBron, age/legacy conversation
• 49:15–58:15: Devin Booker/Suns, franchise building, championship chemistry
• 58:51–63:12: “Best city in America” debate (LA, NY, Miami, Chicago, Detroit)
• 65:13–70:00: Cologne Q&A, style, generational trends, cereal milk debate

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Takeaways

• Basketball analysis at its sharpest: Candid, insightful breakdowns of legacy and playoff success or failure, with a keen eye for narrative and context.
• Max and Rich’s chemistry: Their blend of humor, storytelling, and no-nonsense perspective makes each segment both relatable and informative.
• Cultural sidebars: From colognes to cereal milk, the show’s digressions are as entertaining as its analysis, infusing sports talk with lifestyle discussion.

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For more listener questions, or to have yours answered on air: [e-mail].

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Look, I love what I do. I highly recommend it. If you can get into this business, it beats working for a living. You watch sports, you talk about them, you debate about them, you give everyone your opinion about them. Right? You're gonna do that anyway, but you get paid for it. It's a good deal. People driven by passion are good for business. It's finding them that's the problem. Luckily, ZipRecruiter can help with that. Try it [e-mail] gameover ZipRecruiter is consistently on it. They have powerful matching tech and they're frequently rated the number one hiring site based on G2 Plus. They added a new feature that pushes qualified candidates who are most interested in your job to the top of your list. Find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com gameover that's ZipRecruiter.com gameOver meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Rich, we're in Miami.

[B]

I know Miami, Max.

[A]

We're doing the Crockett and Tubbs.

[B]

Yes, we are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Lennon.

[A]

I like it. It's a little cosplay, but I like it. I could dress up a little bit. Grown man.

[B]

You know who I was with today? Who? Dan Marino.

[A]

Oh, well, we are in Miami. It's Mr. Miami right there.

[B]

It was a fantastic setting too. Yeah, it's about a table of 30 people. Star six, seven. You know what that is?

[A]

No.

[B]

It's a private chefing. It's great every time.

[A]

Do you eat at any regular restaurants without a private chef?

[B]

I do, but it just so happened. I have really nice friends.

[A]

What's wrong with that? I could see that.

[B]

It's a great group.

[A]

I have nice friends once removed through you.

[B]

Well, that's what friends are for.

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty good.

[B]

But then. How great was that party?

[A]

Yeah, it was live. Really was.

[B]

I wanted to stay.

[A]

Just trying to get you here is not easy.

[B]

No. Because you see people that you haven't seen in a while. You have a great conversation. You know, it's business. It's not like anybody was falling over a drop.

[A]

Can I tell you something? My memory is that Kevin Hart introduced us backstage at one of the finals.

[B]

He did not.

[A]

And you always said he didn't. And I brought it up with him today at party. He Said no. And I'm like, what the. What's wrong?

[B]

That means I don't remember it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. I told you that.

[A]

Yeah. I dreamt it. I don't know.

[B]

I knew you long before that.

[A]

It would have been. It would have been a good origin story, though. I mean, I wish you two would have just gone with it, because I. That's how I remember it would have been.

[B]

No, but nobody asked you to try to remember how we met.

[A]

I mean, I. But, you know, why not?

[B]

But anyway, I didn't want to. I didn't want to leave that party. ABG Does a great job. Of course. Illustrated party was great. Good to see Kevin. Good to see Draymond was there. Who else did we see there? I miss somebody. Who was just there.

[A]

Oh, wait, did we see basketball?

[B]

Oh, Al Harrington.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

There was a few people there. It was nice.

[A]

Yeah. But good party. You did want to stay.

[B]

I did want. To.

[A]

Listen, if you have this outfit on, you want to stay out and be seen.

[B]

Thank you, Matt. Yeah. Thank you.

[A]

Perfect outfit.

[B]

Well, we're in Miami. What you're supposed to do, you got to be light. You got to be, you know, very dapper.

[A]

It's a good.

[B]

But. But see. Yeah. I like your look. Go with the light. Light tones. Light blue.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Linen pant.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Now, the no sock game. Yep. That's what I would always go to.

[A]

Well, it's not no sock. It's a no show sock.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't do.

[B]

But if you. You can do the. No, you gotta go. Baby powder on the feet.

[A]

Yeah. That's the whole thing. That's awesome.

[B]

What you mean there's nothing wrong with that. Fresh.

[A]

For that. For that, you put no show socks on.

[B]

It's good.

[A]

It's more comfortable.

[B]

Until the no show starts to show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then that's.

[A]

They got the little sticky stuff on the back now.

[B]

Yeah, but it hurt the back of your ankle a little bit, if you ever notice. That's why you got to be very careful. It'll cut the back of your ankle.

[A]

I can't do the shoes with no socks.

[B]

Yes, you can. I believe in you.

[A]

I'm in the sixth grade. I got to put some socks on.

[B]

No, that's. If you don't have clothes. Clean socks to wear. Difference between no socks and not having clean socks.

[A]

Listen, we got. There's.

[B]

We do. We do.

[A]

We have too much to talk about.

[B]

Yeah, like a cheeseburger. I'm hungry.

[A]

What?

[B]

No, I didn't get.

[A]

Because we had lunch today. I got the cheeseburger.

[B]

No, but I went to the. You know, you go.

[A]

Everyone else got the salad. I got the cheeseburger.

[B]

Yeah, because everyone else was being very healthy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you know how you go to one of those dinners and you do more talking than eating?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what I was just at as talking sports business. It was great. So I. I didn't get to.

[A]

I hate those. I like the eating part of the dinners. So I saw you eyeing my fries. You got into those fries.

[B]

Who's don't.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Fries.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. No, that was. That was at 11 o' clock this afternoon.

[A]

No, it was. That was afternoon. Barely.

[B]

What was it?

[A]

Barely.

[B]

The meeting was at 12:30.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So we probably weren't eating figure till one.

[B]

No, that food came out fast.

[A]

Fast. And one of the benefits of eating with Rich Paul is people are coming over. Everything's on the house.

[B]

Everything's picked up. Yes.

[A]

Yeah, everything's on the house. Well, that was the benefit of all of us. See you there.

[B]

Yeah, it was great. Those are. Those are real distinguished gentlemen that.

[A]

Yeah, I could see that.

[B]

Yeah. Nice guys.

[A]

So you ready to do this?

[B]

Yeah. A lot of games to talk about. A crazy game I don't even understand.

[A]

Everything was crazy today.

[B]

By the way, the score is 195, Minnesota.

[A]

How much time left?

[B]

2 minutes and 38 seconds.

[A]

All I'm gonna say about Jokic, then we can start to show you.

[B]

Let's start the show first.

[A]

Start the show first. Yes. Okay.

[B]

Game [e-mail].

[A]

game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul. We get to your emails. We do it every show now.

[B]

Oh, we got a great email today.

[A]

Do we? Are we doing. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. From Abu. This might be the Abu. I was in the fourth grade with a guy named Abu. Abu Ali.

[A]

I'm guessing there's more than one Abu, but.

[B]

Oh, I don't know. But this could be him.

[A]

Could be. He doesn't identify himself, though.

[B]

No. He would have said something if it was him.

[A]

Yeah, you would think.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right, let's do it.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Game over is brought to you by fanduel. It's been a wild playoff run, but it's not over yet. And FanDuel wants to bring you closer to the court to make more of all the action to come. FanDuel is the best place to bet the teams, players and plays during the NBA post season. Build the same game parlay for a shot at bigger payout or. Or try live betting and Jump into the action after tip off. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game 21 and over in select states 18 and over in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinc. All right, so you know we're going to have to hold on, hold off talking Nuggets and Wolves for the next couple minutes because the game's still on.

[B]

Yes. It's not looking good. I don't know.

[A]

All I'm saying about jokic is even down 3:1, a lot of people favored you to win the series because the best player on the other team is out for the series. When Ant goes out for the series and you're and rich. I know what it sounds. Jokic is one of the greatest offensive players of all time. I get it. I'm giving that up. No question. He's incredible. However, when you are compared to the very best who ever did it, there are levels. You can't lose a series when your second best player, Jamal Murray, has been available all series. Yes. Aaron Gordon's been in and out. And the other teams. Not only did DiVincenzo miss a bunch, a handful of games now, but Ant Edwards, the best player in other teams. Out. You must advance. You got like. There's no excuse.

[B]

Well, yes, I agree with what you're saying, but also, he has his team, too. He doesn't. I mean, Aaron Gordon's out. Yep. Peyton Watson's out.

[A]

Yep. It's not like those are two.

[B]

Those are two. Two really big pieces of that puzzle. That's out. I'm not saying that doesn't mean Joker shouldn't still win and Nugget shouldn't still win, but those are two really big pieces.

[A]

If LeBron is missing Kevin Love, but he has.

[B]

Well, nobody's gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

[A]

But he has Kyrie or he's missing Bosch. But he has Wade. It's not like they're FA and he's playing another team. He's playing the spurs, but they don't have Duncan. No one wants to hear that.

[B]

I agree. I agree.

[A]

If Michael Jordan doesn't have Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman in the first, but he's got Pippen and he's playing the Knicks without Patrick Ewing. No one is trying to. He couldn't get out of the east because he didn't have Horace Grant. Yeah. They didn't have Patrick Ewing. Yeah. I'm just saying. I'm not saying that Jokic is not one of the greatest players of all time. He is offensively at. No question. He's been incredible. There's the top 10. There's like the inner uppermost circle, and then there's the next level and the next level. You can't put them in with the uppermost guys. If this happens. You just can't.

[B]

Well, it looks like it's going to happen.

[A]

What's the score now? How much time?

[B]

There's a minute 10 left and they're down 6.

[A]

That could. Okay, by the way, go do it. Do it right now. Because here's the other thing.

[B]

Well, I'm sorry. A minute 40 left and you're down six.

[A]

That's like, okay, it's one thing if it's like, oh, my God, they have this incredible scheme. They throw guys at you. They have like three different guys who are seven feet tall with seven, six wingspans and they can rotate da da, da da. And they have this perfect scheme and the coach is a defensive genius. And it's another thing when they're like, we got a guy who's a really good defender, Rudy Gobert, and primarily he's going to be the guy tasked with stopping Jokic. And by the way, it's going to work. Can't happen.

[B]

Yeah, but isn't Jokic most dangerous when he's getting other guys involved?

[A]

Get him involved.

[B]

Right. So just play them one on one. I'm saying, if you play them one on one and stick to the others, doesn't that help the strategy?

[A]

Well, this is why I said McDaniels is the key. Because when you have a 6 foot 9 guy, you can put on who's the real pivotal guy, especially if Gordon's compromised. It's Jamal Murray. He's been a playoff killer. You put McDaniels on Murray, that's a tough matchup for Murray.

[B]

Very tough.

[A]

And that's worked.

[B]

But, you know, these two teams have familiarity. They played each other the last two years in the playoffs, so there's a

[A]

lot there and it couldn't be more even. Last bunch of years, they. They each win as much as they lose to each other.

[B]

Well, I don't know how even it is without Ant, but.

[A]

Yeah, but, but saying do it. This reminds me of, like, there's a. There's a. When Brady made his run with the Bucks and he won the super bowl, he, he played the Saints with Drew Brees and Brady this. And you know, he made this incredible play late in the game and, and they Come back on the Saints. And now it's like, okay, Drew, you got the ball now. And when people talk about the greatest players of all time. Do it now. Brady just did it. Now you do it. There's a difference between. Breeze is great. There's a difference between Brady and Breeze, and it shows up in these moments.

[B]

What's the expectation of Joker if he does. If he. If he gets sent home in round one, which it looks like he's going home in round one? Jay McDaniels just hit a shot, another shot. What is the expectation? Does people care? Not care. What's the conversations in media?

[A]

Well, this is the thing that I would criticize LeBron supporters when they talk about Jordan. Jordan sets a certain standard. Oh, now, if LeBron doesn't do this or that. Yes. That's who you're being compared to. You're LeBron James. You've passed everyone else. You being compared to the best ever. That's right. It's almost a standard of perfection. It's not fair to LeBron.

[B]

Tough shit.

[A]

That's how great you are, LeBron. That's what's expected of you. That's the highest level. That's the top. Top tier.

[B]

You can go no higher than that.

[A]

You can't go higher than. But Jokic, we're not. I'm not holding Jokic to that standard.

[B]

I mean, a couple of flights down.

[A]

Well, I mean, it seemed as though he floors down. Yeah, but he was supposed to be starting to approach that standard.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I'm not dissing him by saying you can't really compare him to those guys offensively. Yes, basically he does. He's an incredible player. But like Larry Bird. Oh, but, you know, McHale got hurt or whatever. Larry Bird ain't going out in the first round period. Magic Johnson, he's not going out like that. They're just not going out like that. Okay, well, jokic is top 20, but you can't put him top 10.

[B]

Okay, well, it seems like you're gonna have a lot to talk about, but

[A]

here's the thing about sports. We don't write the script. We spin a narrative that we think is the story. My story might be different than yours. I think I'm telling the right story. Someone else might think they're telling the right story. Do it right now. You. These the players, right?

[B]

You keep saying, do it now. There's no more time. Time is running out.

[A]

How much. How much time they got left in the game? What's the score?

[B]

57 seconds.

[A]

And what's the score.

[B]

They're down eight three.

[A]

Possession game. 57 seconds. Strange.

[B]

I saw Red Jonas still has the ball. Max.

[A]

I once saw Reggie Miller. The Knicks had the ball. They were down 8. There was like negative 3 seconds left in the game. You blink and. And the Pacers won.

[B]

Sometimes. Sometimes. It's just your time, man. It's not. It's Minnesota's time in this series right here.

[A]

First round without ant. And DiVincenzo is a killer and no IO. He's a killer and no IO.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No, no, no, no. Can't be. Cannot be. Well, but it could it be. But a minute ago there was a minute 40 left in the game. They're down two possessions. What is that some insurmountable lead? I know what I'm about to say is ridiculous. Will, you're comparing put make that Michael Jordan's team. He's down six points with a minute 40 against a team without three of their four best players. There's a zero percent chance his team loses that game.

[B]

Come on, max.

[A]

A 0% chance.

[B]

Zero.

[A]

What? His the last championship Jordan won. They were down a couple possessions. He hits the shot. Steals the ball. Hits the shot. Like do it now.

[B]

Do it now. But you know there's tape of all these players. Yeah, there's tape on everybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One day we'll watch the tapes. We should just have a show where we just watch all tapes.

[A]

No question.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm not. I. I know like this game is over.

[B]

Don't worry about this.

[A]

Game's over. Okay. Game's over. Nuggets lose. That is an awful loss. I feel for Jokic because Gordon got hurt. They haven't put like he's been. But you gotta win that series.

[B]

So let me ask you, that's why

[A]

he's brawling with Jokic, is popping shit in this series because he's frustrated.

[B]

Yeah, he's frustrated.

[A]

You know, basically a one on one matchup.

[B]

Okay, but let's ask this question bad. Does Denver shuffle the deck at all?

[A]

They have to, wouldn't you think so. You're president of basketball operations for the deck.

[B]

No, I'm not.

[A]

What does Rich Paul do?

[B]

We go with fantasy basketball. I can't say that.

[A]

Max, would you shuffle the deck? I would shuffle the deck, yeah.

[B]

I would shuffle the deck, yes.

[A]

By the way, not even like Aaron Gordon is just the kind of player you want on your team. He's a little injury prone. Jamal Murray injury. Just the kind of dude I want on my team. Injury prone.

[B]

Yeah, but you don't have to shuffle the deck and get rid of the king and queen and the jack. You can shuffle the deck. You just want to get a different hand.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good analogy.

[B]

Yeah, different hand. Okay.

[A]

All right. The Knicks did so, like, that's how we start. Rich, think about how long you've been watching basketball, right?

[B]

A very long time.

[A]

I have never seen anything like that. Knicks Hawks first half in my life, ever.

[B]

What was the score at halftime?

[A]

All I know is the Knicks went on a 67. It was 8012 run.

[B]

Yes, it was. It was. The score was 80 to 38 at one point.

[A]

The Knicks had tripled their score at one point. It was low 70s or high 60s to low 20s. Triple the score with like six minutes left in the, in the half.

[B]

Like, by the way, 80 points at halftime is crazy.

[A]

Atlanta went on a 90 run early. They were up a possession early.

[B]

How early? The first two minutes of the game?

[A]

Yeah, basically, but it was like a game. And then OG Anunoby just couldn't get.

[B]

He had 29.

[A]

But not only that, Rich, he was at like, talk about one team, who wants it more than the other one. The Knicks clamped down on defense. OG was everywhere. And once the Hawks got down like 12, 15 points, they were demoralized.

[B]

But sometimes in the playoffs is exactly what you just said. Who wants it more?

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's what it is at the end of the day. Who wants it more? That's it.

[A]

And sometimes wanting it more is not just playing frantically. Sometimes you gotta wanting it. Like sometimes I'll. You'll see a fight and one dude gets hit and rocked and then it's Rock Em Sock em Robots. And I was like, oh, he has so much heart. But the guy with even more toughness than that is the guy who gets hit and rocked and instead of going in face first, bites down and is like, okay, I gotta get to my game plan. With discipline, that takes more. And, and, and the, the Knicks had that today and the Hawks did not.

[B]

Yeah, wanting. Wanting it more is okay. Let's adjust. Let's come out of timeouts and execute. Let's not be late to rotations on the defensive end. That's wanting it more. That's really paying attention to detail and saying, you know what? We worked all year in and out of film sessions. We know what we, we're capable of doing. Let's just do it and not do it once every fourth, fifth possession. Let's do it every possession. That's the play that's playing football.

[A]

Discipline is the is the hardest thing to do in that situation. It's the hardest kind of muscle to exercise in that situation. And it's the only thing that can, that can help you there. And the Knicks had it. The Hawks did not the Knicks, by the way, increasingly in that series, Rich Atlanta won by a point, a couple of games, and the Knicks started winning by 20 points, 30 points, a million points.

[B]

It's almost like they said, we're just better and we know we're better. Play like it. But Mike Brown, you have to give Mike Brown credit because Mike Brown was getting a lot of flack.

[A]

Yeah, he was.

[B]

When they lost that game and in the playoffs, there's, there's, It's a series for a reason. And we always talk about styles, make fights and you get to go home and adjust and things like that. How you make adjustments is a big, big part of coaching. Not being afraid to sub, not being afraid to play a guy you probably haven't played all series, but you put them in the game because of their capabilities or whatnot. That, to me is great coaching. And some, you don't see that all the time, but when you do see it, you have to give praise to that. And Mike Brown, he went different. He started playing Alvarado, he started playing Jordan Clarkson switched it up a little bit, allowing those guys to play. And they had moments. They had moments. He didn't listen to the noise about, you know, Bridges. Bridges had a game tonight, so.

[A]

He did.

[B]

Yeah, no, I think that's, that's. But he's, he's very tenured. He's been to Finals as a coach, he's been to Finals as assistant head coach. He's come up in that spurs system. And it's not easy to co. It's not easy to do anything in New York. It's not easy to walk down the street and let alone coach the Knicks.

[A]

Right, of course.

[B]

So.

[A]

Especially when there are expectations.

[B]

Yes, yes. Very high. Expect. And look, they won this series. But we all know for the Knicks, every series is the whole season. So if they lose, next series is.

[A]

And we said going in, it's like a six game series.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Felt like a six game series. Yeah. Mike Brown is a good coach. Solid. You always think him solid coach. But the interesting thing about coaches is, like, I think there's a tendency you pigeonhole him. He's a solid coach. As though a coach can't develop just like a player can develop. And because it's not a physical thing where a player has a limit in terms of Their physical prime. So if they're not developing by a certain age, it is what it is. But a coach, that's not the same thing. A coach can have a long career and get better as they go along. And Mike Brown, the way I have him pegged in my mind, that's a solid NBA coach, but I don't think of him as a great coach, just a solid one. But look, do something with this team right now. And just like I say, Jay joker, you're down six points, minute 40. Do it now. He didn't do it like when we started this show. His. The. He wasn't. His destiny was not to lose the game. No, he wasn't faded. It wasn't already written that he had lost the game.

[B]

But easier said than done.

[A]

I'm saying. But the same thing with Mike Brown, those Timberwolves. I. Dude without. You even said it without IO.

[B]

I get it.

[A]

Without even Chenzo, without. But the same thing with Mike Brown. I have. I think of him as a certain level coach just like the player do it now. Coach like this as the. As you know, by the way, if it's against the Philadelphia 76ers who just knock out the Celtics, we'll see about Game 7. Or if it's against Boston, either one. Either one would be a legendary thing for a Knicks coach to do.

[B]

Well, either one of those series are. Are those are legacy teams in the NBA. Knick, Sixers, Knicks, Celtics, those are legacy series. I want to ask you, are you disappointed in the Hawks season?

[A]

They're a little bit like Detroit in that last year. Yeah. In that you. You see them coming and you're like, ooh, they're good, they're better. And they. You think like they could make certain moves to be a problem right now.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not disappointed in their season going tell you why, no one expected them to be like second round playoffs or anything like that. I think they showed promise. The way they lost tonight may put a little damper on their season from a perception perspective, but I wouldn't. A loss is a loss. Whether you lose by one, lose by 83, obviously it stings a little more and you lose the way you lost tonight. But. But the work you have to do this summer was the same work no matter what. Right. So I think going back looking at, okay, we have these few foundational pieces. Where do we get better, how much better we want to get, you know. And a lot goes into that because it's not just skill set anymore. The mental toughness part of the game when you get to the playoffs is so important. You have to make sure you have that in abundance.

[A]

That's why I'm not like I would normally agree with you. It's a loss. Da da da da da. They could use it for motivation. But the Hawks seem to be trending like because of jj Mainly to me because of how. And they have Kristaps expiring contract which they move to Golden State. But even if you don't move that, I thought hey, if Kristaps gets healthy that could be a problem for teams in the playoffs and all this. And the fact that it's not just that they, they got to the, they got to the playoffs. They lost in the first round to a very good team. It's the way they lost class tells over time they look like they're competitive and, and each succeeding game it's like oh, the Knicks are better. Oh shit, the Knicks are much better. And then to lose like this, there's sometimes like there's some losses that could be so demoralizing that. Yeah, maybe they grow from it or maybe things have to change.

[B]

I think they grow though.

[A]

Remember, remember I never seen a team lose like that.

[B]

No, I haven't either. But remember this year in the regular season they had lost a lot of games in a row, like nine or 12.

[A]

People forget about that before JJ took over at point. Basically people forget about.

[B]

So there's been, it's been a roller coaster ride this year just in general. But there's a lot of positivity ahead if they can make the right moves.

[A]

Yeah, they need to make some moves.

[B]

Yeah, you gotta make the moves. Of course. But they have New Orleans pick this year in the draft which could be a really good one. They probably have some money, they have some expiring contracts. They have some young players that they really like. I like the Alexander Walker ad Obviously JJ all star this year. Probably should be all NBA. You know, they, they. I like Big O still. So they have some, some, some pieces there.

[A]

I gotta be honest. They have a little less than I thought they did.

[B]

This is what I'm trying to tell you. So, so to have that expectation. They didn't have the expectation. Right, right. They surprised a lot of people the way they were because you remember they went on a. They might have won like they flipped the season around. They won like 12 games.

[A]

Yeah. So when, when Trey got hurt and. And JJ took over, he. He's on ball.

[B]

On ball.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They started playing a different style of basketball. So I'm not too concerned about. I don't like the look of the loss.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you just bunker down and you try to add not just talent but experience to that team, to that locker room, you know, because C.J. mcCollum was experienced and he, I think he's expiring, but he was a good piece.

[A]

He was. He won a game. Won a couple games for him. Really.

[B]

Yeah. You got to get bigger. You need some bigs. Yep. And then I think the point guard and you can always use more shooting. So. But they have a pretty. They have a really good GM and honestly. So I think, I think, I think they'll make the proper moves.

[A]

That is such a ass whooping. They just took. That's unbelievable. Unbelievable. Just to see something new. If you've been watching a sport for half a century.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you see something new in a closeout game, by the way, a three, two series. It's not like.

[B]

I know, I thought it was going seven. I thought Atlanta would fight, obviously harder than what they fought to go to seven games.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

So meantime, Sixers beat the Celtics 106.93.

[B]

I told you. I told you that.

[A]

What? What are the Celtics going to have to do to win game seven? By the way, Tatum, not the bad leg. The good leg is now a bad leg.

[B]

Last show you said. I said Phillies going to fight. You said yeah, but they're going home. I said, max, get to a game seven, anything can happen. This is what I'm telling you.

[A]

They're not going home. They're going to Boston.

[B]

They're going to Boston. Yes.

[A]

Celtics are going home. Well, the pressure on Boston and against all.

[B]

The pressure's on Boston because when you have.

[A]

So I said Edgecombe is the key guy in this series. I, I thought he was key in a couple games. Maxi you take for granted. He's going to be great. He's a great player. The fact that Embiid was able to come back and integrate himself that first game, oh, look, he can play. He could. He can score. But it looks weird because Maxi's fast and he's slow and it doesn't really work. And they lose that game big. And then the very next game. Oh, no, it's working with Embiid. And then the next game, it's working with Embiid. The fact that the. Grimes good off the bit like every.

[B]

And they're guarding.

[A]

They're guarding. And now you go back to Boston. Boston, who looked like the class of the. Of the league, and Paul George is hitting shots. That's almost. That's one of those things where if Paul George is going to play well, you got to like Philly.

[B]

Yeah. Paul George's talent has never been a question.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

He's been one of the most talented players in the room since he got there. The thing that makes it such a pressure cooker on Boston is not the fact that it's game seven, it's the style of play in a game seven. Jump shots. Right. When you're taking a lot of threes in a game seven and you're not on it can go the other way really fast. Gotta have guys putting pressure on the rim, getting downhill. Putting pressure in a game seven.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Game seven. I want a lot of pressure on the rim. I want. That's not their game. They like to shoot the three. But. But I like pressure on the rim in game seven just to. Just to get control of the game.

[A]

Pressure on the rim also is like a certain. You need a certain athletic. Your athletic ability has to be pitched at a certain level to put pressure on the rim. So that's like in baseball, you'll have like a junk ball pitcher who wins a lot of games in the regular season, because in the regular season, they're not scouting you the same way. Right. Guys are playing a lot of games. Sometimes they're playing some backups, you know, guys off the bench, giving Certain guys rest. Then in the playoffs, there's more time between games. They're scouting you different. Everyone you're facing is good. That's why they're in the playoffs. Then the junk baller, the guy who's getting you out with guile and off speed, stuff, they're smart too. Now you need stuff. Stuff is what plays up in the playoffs. The guy who's throw hard, you know, gets the breaking ball to break sharp. The guys with, with real stuff, the athletic guys, right? Athletic ability plays up in the playoffs. One of the reasons I think James Harden has not been able to match his regular season game with his playoff game, because James does it without like, you know, his. What's his number one attribute? They say he can slow up real fast, he can stop on a dime. But I'm talking about guys who can explode, right? Guys who can play above the rim, long athletes. That's not Harden, that's just not his game. That's what plays up in the playoffs. When you say pressure on the rim, you're talking about those kind of players.

[B]

Yeah. Just getting downhill. Because I don't mind the three point shots, but I do mind the pull up three point shots. If you get into three point shots, not aggressive on a kick out or swing. Swing. I like that. Or you get an offensive rebound and kick it out. I like that. You draw two and kick it out. I like that. But I don't want in the game seven.

[A]

It's just I could do a pull up. Here's a pull up three in a game seven. You're feeling it. The dude just hit two in a row. Heat check, right? Yeah, go ahead, do it.

[B]

Pull up. And here's the thing, here's the problem with, with today's game. Heat check. If we up nine, right? Not heat.

[A]

No, no, no. To try to get back in the game, right? No. Right.

[B]

No. And the problem is because in AAU you play this frivolous basketball, you just

[A]

don't value the possessions.

[B]

There's more, there's more hand signals than it is like fundamentals. Understood. That spills over into the NBA game, right? And what I told you, analytics failed James Harden. I'll say that again. And with analytics, if they're saying shoot to 3, shoot to 3, shoot to 3,. Then, then that's what you do. But it's type of three when you shoot.

[A]

But it's also like, also if you're looking to draw a contact, you can't be looking to draw the foul as your primary thing. The primary, primary thing Is hitting the shot.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Then if you can draw the foul. Great.

[B]

Yeah. You know, you got to finish through. They're not going to call this ticky tack game.

[A]

To me, that's the same thing as putting pressure on the rim in. In the sense that it's playing aggressively.

[B]

But see, Philly has guys put pressure on the rim.

[A]

Maxi and Edgecomb.

[B]

Not just them. Grimes, who's big, Paul, George Y. And. And Kelly Oubrey. All those guys can put pressure on the rim, rip through, get to the basket.

[A]

I mean, so can. So can Embiid.

[B]

Actually, so can Embiid, But. But on. On Boston's side, if Tatum's dealing with a calf, that don't help. Obviously, Jalen Brown can.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

But after that, it's slim.

[A]

Richard can.

[B]

On the rim.

[A]

Yeah. Off the bench.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's not. He's not playing above the rim, but he's going to the rim.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I like, I. I like Pritchard just in general. He's a feisty.

[A]

He's aggressive.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But I know what you're saying. It's not like having the wing player who, who can jump out the gym who's going to be playing aggressively. And that opens everything else up.

[B]

Right. So the. The next matchups, just. There's another Orlando Pistons, right?

[A]

Yeah, that was. By the way, they lost. But Bankero showed up.

[B]

He did.

[A]

To try to match Kate and basically did. He almost did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, what. Kate at 49, 45. And, man, Carol had 45.

[A]

Yeah, they both had 45. Yeah, maybe.

[B]

I mean, that's hell of a basketball.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

[B]

That's two guys trying to win.

[A]

Yeah, it is. Two number one picks in consecutive years

[B]

and young players trying to win.

[A]

If Philly beats Celtics, we gotta go knicks.

[B]

In Philly, six or six is going to be 100 grand ticket, literally. Yeah, 100 grand. Yeah, ticket. But in Philly, in the second round.

[A]

Yeah, Knicks. Philly would be so live.

[B]

Well, it was live before.

[A]

The thing about Philly is I just didn't. I didn't believe they were ever going to be all healthy and in rhythm.

[B]

But Max, who's been saying all year I said, max, my team, my wild card, it was, is the Sixers, because if they can get healthy.

[A]

And by the way, I was like, yeah. But I was like, yeah, the way I'm like, I was like, yeah. With Denver, I just didn't like Denver. They didn't play defense, so I didn't believe in them Sixers. It's like, I don't believe that they're all the key guys will be healthy with enough Runway where it's all clicking.

[B]

But they got a guy who is obsessed with the game and wants to win. In Maxey, he wants to win. He is not going down lightly.

[A]

And he's not in his prime yet.

[B]

No, but you got to take him down. Like, you need three, four people. Just tie him up.

[A]

Yeah. You can't hold him down. You can't love Maxi.

[B]

You gotta love Maxi. He's giving you everything he got. And so when you got a guy like that, you got a chance.

[A]

NBA legacy teams. Mount Rushmore. You texted me this today.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, because I was just thinking about it because I was thinking about the legacy teams, the Knicks, the Lakers, the Celtics, the Sixers. But I was saying with Boston, because I was watching Boston's game, I was like, who would be on Boston's Mount Rushmore? I don't think it's anybody. You don't think it's anybody past 1990?

[A]

No, it can't be. Because Bill Russell has to be on. Larry Bird has to be on.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, probably Havich and Koozie. Yeah, it's got to be Bob Koozie.

[B]

I'm like, this is what I'm saying.

[A]

The thing is, people, people disc nowadays because you see it, it looks. But everything gets built on what, you know. All you can do is compare what this dude was doing to the. What the league was doing around.

[B]

Why doesn't Mikhail make that?

[A]

Mikhail's an argument. You got a hell of an argument for Mikhail before Hakeem. Mikhail had the best post moves probably ever.

[B]

I think I'm putting Mikhail instead of Mikhail or have Mikhail Burr Russell, Koozie.

[A]

I could see that. Yeah. I mean, I could see that it might be recency bias, but I could see.

[B]

Well, I didn't see Koozie or Havoc.

[A]

Yeah, me neither.

[B]

I'm just rolling the dice.

[A]

But

[B]

I mean, I'm being honest.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, if you just want to. Okay. What about Celtics that you've seen?

[B]

I mean, it's people I've seen play.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I mean, I didn't see Bill Russell play in person, but can't deny the 11 rings. So I just closed my eyes.

[A]

Bill Russell has to be there. Any list.

[B]

I seen Bird.

[A]

Do you know, people still don't know how Bird. How like, great Bird was. I think when people see a white dude talking about Bird, it's like. It's like in coming to America, when the dude brings up Rocky Marciano and goes, that's their one. That's the one.

[B]

No, Bird. No, no, no.

[A]

People don't like, LeBron is greater than Bird. Like, it's. LeBron is greater than Bird. It's close. It's hard to be much better than Bird. Bird is like. To say LeBron is better than Bird speaks to how great LeBron is. Because I could tell you when I was a kid watching Bird, before I watched Jordan, before Jordan, I was like. And I hated it because he was a Celtic. I'm like, I'm never gonna see someone better than this.

[B]

Max.

[A]

He was like, let me tell you. He had telepathy.

[B]

Black guys wore Bird's jersey.

[A]

Yeah, right. Of course.

[B]

End of story.

[A]

The baddest dude in the world, Bird.

[B]

All of his peers. I've never seen a guy. All of his peers. All of them, yeah. Have always had respect for Larry Bird. Yeah. And the tapes don't lie. And I actually had a little tv, my grandmother's entertainment center, we had to put together. I think she got it from Sears. We had to put this thing together with the encyclopedias at the bottom and watch. I really. I watched Bird in real time right now. He was close to the back, being.

[A]

Once his back went out, but this

[B]

was in the 80s. His back was done in, what, 92, 91, whatever it was. Then they lost. They lost the Cavs, I think, earlier in, like, the second round or something. First round, they lost the Cabs. His back was done. I think he set out that series or was in and out of that series. So. But then in recency, I mean, that's the thing everyone I ever want to put on there, they only have one

[A]

ring, so it's Tatum. Probably, like, the best Celtics I see.

[B]

It would have to be Paul or Tatum, because Paul was there through the dog years.

[A]

Garnett.

[B]

Garnett wasn't there long enough.

[A]

Yeah, no. But if you touch something out, the best. I've seen wearing a Celtics jersey while he was in the jersey. I want to say Garnett. Garnett. I got to put Garnett, Tatum, Bird, McHale. I'm saying Bill Russell, of course, is not. I'm just saying, guys, I saw.

[B]

So you take him. Watch. So we don't. We don't have to use Bill Russell, right?

[A]

Because I'm saying, guys, that we live.

[B]

If you don't have to use bill Russell, Bird, McHale, Pierce, Tatum. You're going. I'm going.

[A]

Well, I mean, look, you got to put Pierce, because he had many More years there. I just mean, like, at his best, Garnett was a maniac. Of course, Garnett was the original ad. Garnett was the. The original. Like, how can anyone defend all those guys at the same time?

[B]

He was. But you talking about a man obsessed, I. I have no argument with that.

[A]

Yeah. So, like, he was so competitive. There's something wrong.

[B]

You went with Garnett. I went with Pierce.

[A]

Just.

[B]

Just to make it even. Yeah, but the reason Garnett.

[A]

I don't want to say the reason

[B]

Garnett was as good as he was was because look at all the years he suffered. Him not suffered, but in Minnesota. He was close and couldn't get there. He wanted a championship so bad. And I'm happy he did, because after that, his body kind of broke down a little bit.

[A]

Sometimes people say, oh, if only he hadn't played in the same era as this guy, he'd be considered better. Actually, Garnett is one of those players who actually did suffer from playing at the same time as Kobe Bryant. Because if not for Kobe, Garnett would have been considered the best player in the game, like, two or three seasons.

[B]

Well, that year they played in the Western Conference final.

[A]

He might have been the best player in basketball.

[B]

He won mvp.

[A]

Yeah, but I bet that doesn't mean you're the best.

[B]

But. No, but. But he actually.

[A]

Writers said that you were the best regular.

[B]

Well, true, but he actually should have. He. They should have won.

[A]

No, but Garnett was so great that at his best. I'll take Kobe Bryant and I'll take Tim Duncan. But it's like. It's close. No, it's close.

[B]

Garnett was.

[A]

Was ridiculous.

[B]

But that we'll do. We'll do. We'll do. The next one we'll do on that is the Lakers. We'll do the Lakers.

[A]

Fine, fine.

[B]

Or the Bulls, whoever you want to do.

[A]

If the Lakers lose the series to

[B]

the Rockets, what happened?

[A]

I don't think they're going to lose. Let me just say. I think the game they just had, where they almost won it two or three times, right. Where they're re. Again, like. Just like the.

[B]

The.

[A]

The way the Sixers look when they get Embiid back. I know it's not exactly the same thing. Embiid's very different from the other guys. He hadn't played all this kind of stuff. Reaves should be easier to. But Reaves does affect things. It affects Marcus Smart's rule. It affects things. It affects Canard's role and Canard didn't play well and Smart didn't play well. Right. And then Reaves didn't play great because he's just getting back. I think the Lakers are going to close this out on the road. I think they're going to win comfortably in game six because I think now they'll have a better flow with Reaves. We'll see if they lose this series, though. How does it affect. I'm not sure if you're aware he's on the clutch roster. Are you aware that LeBron James is a client? How does it affect his legacy?

[B]

It doesn't. What do you mean?

[A]

Has no effect at all.

[B]

Zero. No, no. LeBron's legacy is etched in stone. It's been that since 2016.

[A]

I disagree. I think that

[B]

now, perception wise, may say something about it.

[A]

No, let me dead can't affect his legacy. Let me dead it right now. There's nothing that can happen that can be bad for LeBron James.

[B]

This is what I say.

[A]

Because. But it can affect his legacy if he wins, if he loses. No, but these are the gravy.

[B]

I was only thinking from a losing.

[A]

Yeah, that's how I said it, too. So you're right. But these are. There are gravy years of a fighter's career. For example, like, Roberto Durant is an old guy. Lost to some guys he would have killed in his prime. I don't. Who cares? He's old. He's not Durant anymore. He beat some real bad dudes, too, when he was old. That just. That just adds to his greatness. At a certain point when you're old, it's not going to take away from you. LeBron James, what he does when he's. What he. What he doesn't accomplish when he is 41 years old and has played, has ran way more NBA miles on the hardwood than. Than anyone who ever lived. Like, by far, by far. What he doesn't do cannot be held against him. What he does do adds to his legacy. Like, this is not complicated.

[B]

Yeah. Listen for people with common sense. But as you know, if they do lose all the talk shows, of all the people that have the conversations will have something to say about it. And those that want to talk about it in a negative light, they will want to put that on.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

I don't really care about that. Whatever. Because the other thing I notice is I see a lot of guys on shows talking, and I want to come up with a rule. If you weren't better than the player you talking about, you shouldn't be able to talk about it. You know what they would eliminate? They will eliminate 99.9% of the ex players that talks about him. If it ain't Michael. Kobe obviously cannot.

[A]

I don't, I don't agree with this. For the record, everyone has an opinion.

[B]

I know everyone has an opinion, but I'm just saying I see a lot of conversations. I'm like oh my God, really? We have the tapes. We have the tapes, but I just don't. I want to make a T shirt

[A]

that says what's the argument?

[B]

We have the tapes.

[A]

See when you really break it down that someone would argue that what LeBron does at 41 negatively affects his legacy if he doesn't accomplish something already means they're starting from a premise they don't even understand. Well, it's going to happen where they're expecting, expecting a 41 year old to be held accountable to the standards that 30 year olds are like whether it's

[B]

this series, if they make it out of this series, if they go and play the Thunder and they make and they don't, it's going to be set. But that, but again I don't want to focus on that. What I do want to focus on is this in at the position that you're in right now. View the Lakers. Here's what you have to understand. It's very hard to beat a team three times in a let alone four times a day. Very, very difficult on either side. But with that being said, this is where mental toughness comes to play. And if you're the Lakers, you're not trying to outscore Houston, you're trying to guard right, you got to guard guys. There's a lot of guys got wide open jump shots because you're over helping when you don't need to. And you're taking. I seen a three on one fast break. You pull up four, three. Hey man, listen.

[A]

Reeves presence affected two key players in canard and smart, very smart, had bad games because they have to readjust. I think now they have that Runway they got that rep in. They're gonna be fine.

[B]

I'm just saying as a unit. I'm not even calling out names. I'm just talking about as a unit. When you're in this position as a team, you have to go into these games with the, with the mental thought process of guarding. I am guarding.

[A]

I'm with it.

[B]

I am not going to be late on defensive rotations. I'm sticking to guys bodies. I'm going to know guys tendencies. I'm going to rebound. I'm not going to be ball watching. Let somebody cut back door. You know how many times yesterday the other day I saw where guys was like kind of halfway in the zone. Halfway not in the zone. You supposed to be on ball line or help line and you kind of like stuck in no man's land and it's an easy bucket. Those are like seventh, eighth grade things. I played for Frank Novak.

[A]

Oh, I'm aware.

[B]

Yeah. You get caught ball watching, you might not play for three more games.

[A]

Right. So again, a lot of running.

[B]

These are. Oh, yeah. Under 10 down and back. Under 10. Like 19 of those.

[A]

This episode's brought to you by McDonald's. Level up your day with the under $3 menu at McDonald's. A sausage McMuffin for just a $50. And when it's time for lunch, grab a McDouble. Only 250 McValue makes sure you can power up without losing too many coins. A $50 sausage McMuffin or two 50 McDouble. Now that's a legendary drop. Get even more value with McValue. Only at McDonald's. I get to do this because I'm doing a McDonald's read, but a bup Bubba. How do I do limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. This episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Company. Whether it's the 19th inning, the 12th quarter, or the 5th and a half shift, overtime isn't going anywhere. Which is why Duluth builds hard working gear for folks who work their butts off. Their work shirts are built for function and comfort, giving a big foam middle finger to all that's futile. And the new ultra tough no quit utility shirt is equipped with cooling and wicking tech to keep you comfortable. Give no no quits shop at a Duluth store near you [e-mail]. hear what Ishpia said about. Well, listen. Listen to what Ishpia said, okay? Devin Booker is going to be here. Devin Booker is going to lead us to a championship here in Phoenix. That's what he's going to do. And we're going to build the right team around him. He's going to get better, just like I'm going to get better, just like everyone is going to get better at our organization at the same time. Devin Booker is who we want here, and he's great for the city, great for the community. I'll ride into a fire with Devin Booker and I'll do it proudly and we'll go anytime.

[B]

And he's gonna have my back and I'm gonna have his back.

[A]

And Devin Booker's our guy. So the national media, you know, I've learned you guys actually are in the weeds a little bit more with what we do. The national media just says stuff to say stuff sometimes and people say stuff. And sometimes I like to respond and sometimes I don't because it's just ridiculous. But Devin Booker's not getting traded. Devin Booker's our franchise player. And like I said, we're going to win a championship here with Devin Booker. And I'm excited to do it and I'm excited to be next to him when we do that. So what I don't understand, Matt ishb is what do you think of Devin Booker? How many times are you going to say he's the franchise player he's going to be? You're going to win a championship? No. First of all, probably. No, you're not. Secondly, should. That's. Obviously he wants Devin Booker there because when you get a guy like that high end, elite player, of course, and he's in his prime and he can especially score like Devin Booker, the fans love that. You'd love to keep him should Devin Booker want out? No, Devin Booker should. Want to stay.

[B]

Absolutely. Max, this is where I think everyone plays fantasy basketball. Sure. Right. You know how hard it is to win a championship? It is extremely hard to win a championship, which is why when you do get up and go somewhere and you actually do win a championship, you should probably get two because it is extremely difficult to win. That's number one. Number two, when you have an owner like a Matt Ishbury and you're Devin, he's been there the longest. He was drafted there and they have the relationship they have. I'm not giving that up. I'm not giving that up because there's no guarantee. There's Devin Booker. You know how much money Devin Booker makes?

[A]

I don't know his contract? No.

[B]

Okay, well, we can look it up at another time. Well, here's what I'll tell you. Trading for Devin Booker, the money he makes, you're not going one for one anyway, right? Because wherever he would go, it's going

[A]

to be an expiring a thing and

[B]

then it is going to be nothing. Right? Because again, he was drafted there. He has a big impact in the community in Phoenix. He has businesses in Phoenix. The people love him.

[A]

Can he be the best player on a championship team?

[B]

I think he could.

[A]

See, this is something I don't like. I saw someone I really. Jay, Billis talking about this on some real. The other day, maybe a week or two ago. How he found it was. He doesn't like comparisons of, like, who's better between players, who's the greatest, the goat and all that. We should just appreciate players because he finds it reductive.

[B]

I agree with Jay Billis, you know, all that, but it's just barbershop talk. I do agree with.

[A]

But the thing is that sports is like underneath it all about finding out who's the best.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why fans, like, why do you think fans are into that? Like, who's better? And then there really is a question whether or not it can objectively actually be known, but at least who you can construct the best argument for. I know. I think Jay's point is it's not a one on one sport. It doesn't work exactly like that. I get it. But I do think there's something. I think there's something about a championship for players on Devin Booker's level that's a real thing that helps understand how great they are. Because the assumption is that over a long career, you are going to have some bites at the apple. Your organization will sometimes put other All Stars around you with good role players and a good coach. And if you're a guy like Devin Booker, the universe will conspire. If you play 15, 17 years that you are going to have some bites at the apple. And then the way we're going to judge you is other guys had some bites at the apple in those situations too, and they won a championship. Did you?

[B]

Yes. I understand what you're saying, Max, but here's what I'm telling you. I get it. You should want to win a championship. When you play a sport, everybody does. But it's not as simple as that. And here's the thing. When you have an owner that is willing to pay the tax, that is willing to consistently try to improve a roster that is willing to invest in medical staff, the chefing, the, the, the practice facility, he's not cutting corners on the road with, with, with hotels and all these type of things, man, you can't take that for granted. Now, I get it. You should want to win a championship. But unless you can pick me up and plug me right into, I would say, a Boston of a hand, like if we was playing spades, I got nine books in my hand and I just need Devin Booker to add the 10th. And now we're going to run the table. It's all a crapshoot. So why would I do that.

[A]

Well, here's the thing. One of the reasons I asked, do you think Booker could be the best player in a championship team once upon, like it's. When you say it's so hard to win a championship, it is more gangster than people realize. Like, think about the Orlando Magic back in the day. Shaq.

[B]

Penny had Penny, Dennis Scott, Horace Grant.

[A]

He also had Nick Anderson. Think of that starting five. You just said yes. And like it's. Everyone does the job with Brian Shaw

[B]

coming off the bench.

[A]

Especially back then, everyone did the job you would want the guy at that position to do at an all star or near all star level. And a couple at super. Shaq was so great and as good as Penny was. Shaq got zero championships in that situation.

[B]

By the way, that team beat the Bulls.

[A]

You had. Well, Jordan had come back from baseball that year, so that's why they beat the Bulls next year. They got swept. But Penny had to turn into Kobe Bryant with Phil Jackson as a coach. And in order to Shaq for Shaq to win a championship, Penny had to turn into Dwyane Wade with Pat Riley as a coach. It's so hard. So if Ishbia thinks, hey, we got Devin Booker, we'll build around him, we'll have a nice coach. Ain't going to get it done. Devin Booker needs to be playing with at least one other player, at least as good as him, plus great role players, plus a great coach to have a shot at winning a championship. Right. The reason I asked should Devin Booker want out is because if Ishbia doesn't realize that that's the assignment, he's never

[B]

going to win a champion. But who said he didn't realize?

[A]

I'm not saying he didn't.

[B]

And he hasn't even had enough time. Here's what I do know. He's tried things. They didn't work. He's moved on to try something different. He'll continue to try things. He's a fighter. He's walked on to the Michigan State basketball team. He's built. He built a great business as a real businessman. Sure. He's not. He's not there to be laissez faire. I can guarantee you that. He wants to win. He wants to win. Max.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, no, no, never mind.

[A]

What?

[B]

No, no, I said sweater. Armani. Yeah. I knew it. You know how I knew it?

[A]

Because you know every fashion house.

[B]

Well, the, The. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

How do you know?

[B]

Because of the, The. The print in the, in the sweater. It's. It's Armani. And The. And the. It's not a mock. It's almost like a semi mock.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It just set our mind to do that, so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, nice.

[A]

I like color.

[B]

We.

[A]

All right, listen, let's do a quick hit.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

One. It's late. We're tired.

[B]

I'm not tired. I want pizza.

[A]

I see how I said we. I tried to make it like. I tried to make it like

[B]

you're tired. I'm not tired.

[A]

I'm a little bit. I'm a little tired. I have to admit.

[B]

I want pizza.

[A]

If money is no object, we're here in Miami. We both live in la. I'm from New York. If money was no object. Best city to live in in America.

[B]

Money's no object. The best city to live in America. Well, I live in la, so the quality of life in la, for me, the quality of life just. It's tough to be. Not too muggy. It's 75 and sunny.

[A]

I think it depends on where you are in your life.

[B]

Yeah, depends. That's a good point.

[A]

If I was a young single person, I'd rather be Miami or New York.

[B]

Or New York.

[A]

See either one. Same page. Yes, same page. If you get older, if you have a family, and I've had this. If you have a family of really young kids, if money's no object, LA can't beat it. Yes. When the kids get old enough that they can leave the house by themselves, but they can't drive yet, you can't beat New York because they can bounce out the house, out the front door, and the whole world is there for them. They don't need a car. Right down here, you're going to need a car, Louisiana, you're going to need a car.

[B]

But here's what I would say, money aside, when you have water.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And sun.

[A]

Yeah. It's tough.

[B]

It's just tough to beat, man.

[A]

Tough.

[B]

It is tough to beat.

[A]

LA gets hated on a lot. It's just player hating.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, well.

[A]

Well, it's player hating.

[B]

Well, LA gets hated on. Not by me. You never hear me. Because the thing about LA for me, business, restaurants and leisure, you know, being able to really get out. I love New York. Love New York.

[A]

Education, super important to me. Education, New York.

[B]

New York, like Miami has great schools too.

[A]

Yeah. But New York is different for education. New York is different. Like it really is. However, you're dealing with bad weather, three quarters, that's a deal breaker. It like you're not going to be out.

[B]

That's why I got to as much As I want a New York apartment as much as I would love a New York apartment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm going to get me one, God willing. Just.

[A]

Just saving up for your New York apartment?

[B]

I am saving up, but I think,

[A]

I believe if you and Adele pool your resources, you can afford, you know, a one bedroom somewhere. Guys find it, you know, you get it in Queens. You don't have to be in Manhattan if you can't afford it. I understand.

[B]

I would say I'm still picking la, Max. Yeah, I'm picking la.

[A]

Overall, I think LA has a very tough argument to beat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The only thing I would say it,

[A]

especially if money is no object. By the way, we haven't mentioned. We haven't mentioned a big one. We have not mentioned a big one.

[B]

What, London bay area?

[A]

No, we're talking. We're staying in the United States. Oh, Bay area is pretty good.

[B]

Well, the Bay area is beautiful.

[A]

Yeah. But the weather's not quite.

[B]

But the weather's not as good as L. A.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

No.

[A]

Anywhere. Neither is the country you are from. You're from Cleveland. Anywhere in the middle of the country, because we just went coastal.

[B]

Tough to beat the ocean, tough to be dealt. But there's only one city for me to live in the middle of the country which is outside of where I was born. Yeah. Chicago.

[A]

Yeah, I don't, you know, I like.

[B]

I.

[A]

When it comes down to it, I love Chicago. Like, I. I like in the summertime.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

I know, I know what this is going to sound like and maybe it's because I admire the place, but I

[B]

always like these two.

[A]

No, Detroit. Oh, I always liked Detroit.

[B]

Detroit player, though. Detroit's player. I mean. Yeah, Detroit is.

[A]

But I mean, I rather live. People automatically say Chicago. I really like Chicago. I feel like there's something about Detroit that I want to stand up.

[B]

It's real. Detroit is. Detroit is great. Great people in Detroit. Yeah. Great and undercover. Nice restaurants.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's cool. But I'm, you know, I'm just. I'd rather live in Chicago, me personally, for all the things that I would.

[A]

So we're saying money, no object, la. We're both saying the same.

[B]

I'm saying la and Miami's a. Miami, New York, Miami. That's a tough thing because I love New York. Love New York. But you can't beat the quality of life. You said age. Age. In my 20s, yeah, it definitely.

[A]

It definitely matters. I will say this, raising kids and everyone thinks like the whole thing is, oh, kids, people in New York, they want to go up to Westchester to raise the kids. It's the opposite. Westchester's great. But if you can raise kids in Manhattan, in the city, the advantages, the like, even just having, like. So we're social animals, Right. People I saw, I. Two of my kids grew up first five, you know, bunch of years of their life in la. My oldest grew up first couple years of her life in New York. You have a kid in a stroller and they're just seeing faces. Right. The stimulation of seeing all different kinds of faces and the constant stimulation and having to deal with people all the time, it's like an advantage that stays with you for the rest of your life. That doesn't happen in la. Cause in la, wherever you go, those are the, like, if you have a kid, they go to school, they see the faces there, you stop for ice cream, they see the people there, they go play a sport. You only see like 80 different faces in LA.

[B]

What happens when, like in a situation like the pandemic, Right. People from New York came to Miami. The kids are now there's no snow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're getting out of school, they're jumping in the pool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can't take them back to New York.

[A]

Why do you think the best athletes come from Texas, Florida, Southern California? Because they're outside, you know, 365 if

[B]

you're in New York and that's all you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's one thing. But once they hit that sun net

[A]

pool, tough to bring about.

[B]

Ocean is going back to snow? I don't think so.

[A]

Yeah. All right, let's get to the email. Hi, Max and Rich. Love the show. Question. This might be more for you. How many colognes do you think someone should own? And what are your favorite ones?

[B]

Oh, that's a great question from Abu. How many colognes? Yeah, it. I would say I don't know how many? I don't want to sound crazy, but you should at least have 20.

[A]

How about none?

[B]

What?

[A]

I will tell you something.

[B]

No.

[A]

Colonial people are blessed in different ways. 8% of the adult population lacks the protein in their sweat that bacteria feeds off of to create odor. So 8% of the adult population, fewer than 1 in 10, their sweat smells like water. And I happen to be in that percentage, so I do not need cologne.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So all I really need, a little aftershave. It's not about just to calm the skin. And that aftershave smell is enough.

[B]

It's not about the sweat. It's about looking good and smelling good. Just in general. Don't matter about. No sweat. What are you talking about?

[A]

Smell like perfume?

[B]

It's called cologne, not perfume.

[A]

High school, when you're running out the house and you know, if you want. Take a cologne bath.

[B]

If you don't want to smell like perfume.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Buy cologne.

[A]

Well, that is a kind of perfume for men. What it is. Okay, Now, I'm not going to perfume. I'm not going to front. I have some. I just never parve.

[B]

Whatever you want to call it. Yeah. Here's the thing. At least 20, you know, my sons,

[A]

20 bottles of cologne.

[B]

I have more, but, you know, my sons, would they say, dad, can I go. Can I go and put on some of your cologne? Sure. It's great. I used to do the same thing to my dad.

[A]

Well, of course. But high school, look, if you look at, like, animals in the rainforest, right? Like a peacock or whatever, or like a. There's rainforest animals. Super colorful, right? Because there's so much competition that to get a mate, they need to really stand out. That's like high school. High school. Everyone's young. The hormones are going crazy. They're out of their minds. Everyone. And the competition is so intense that everyone is pouring cologne on themselves. They're like, you know, like, they. But then you get to be an adult and you don't have to do it anymore.

[B]

But see, mine came from. My dad always taught me, get dressed. Put a little dab here.

[A]

Yeah, you do a little dab.

[B]

Whatever. So I've always done that. When I was really young, there used to be a store at the Euclid Superior Plaza called Connie's. And it was like a thing in the back. Come in the back door, they would have the colognes coming to cool Water. And it was. Oh, you couldn't.

[A]

I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what cologne hit when I was in. In high school.

[B]

Boy Fahrenheit.

[A]

Drakkar Noir took over high school.

[B]

Drakkar Noir.

[A]

Drakkar Noir. I'm going back to the late 80s, late 80s, early 90s. Drakkar Noir.

[B]

You're really showing your age, Max.

[A]

Well, that's what it is. I'm not gonna front. You know, that's what it was.

[B]

Did you wear Brute? That was a really. Like.

[A]

I remember. I remember Chanel had something. They had a couple here and there.

[B]

Chanel got a good one right now. Celine has a good one right now. YSL has a good one right now. Cree. You can never go wrong with that.

[A]

So go ahead, give them your list.

[B]

You can never go wrong with any bonds. Certain bonds.

[A]

Top three.

[B]

Oh, I don't have a top three. Depending on what I have on. Depending on what color I have on what city I'm in. I'm feeling the temperature. It's a lot of different code.

[A]

The smell of the cologne to your color.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, not cold.

[A]

It's like, called synesthesia, where people, like, smell numbers and stuff like that. Yeah, you're not coding it, but this is the.

[B]

In the fall, you may go with a heavier. And coming down here to Miami, you may go something a little bit lighter, depending on what you have on. It's just different sense.

[A]

There's nothing wrong with that. No, he's talking about Cinnamon Toast Crunch. What?

[B]

He said I look like a Cinnamon Toast Crunch tonight. This man is crazy. When the milk left in the bowl, you got Cinnamon Toast Crunch. You can actually. That's.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's like cereals. That's. That's the killer.

[B]

Well, certain cereals, you can't drink the milk.

[A]

Which ones?

[B]

Well, you can with Cinnamon Toast Crunch. At all. Not those Rice Krispies when it gets a little soggy.

[A]

Yeah, well, that texture. Yeah, but I'll do. We could do a rush more of cereals.

[B]

Oh, for sure we can.

[A]

Or a top 10 of cereals.

[B]

We'll do it on the next show. Max, let's go get some pizza.

[A]

Get some Froot Loops and Captain Crunch.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

All right. Yeah, I'm done. I'm done. It's. It's almost. It's after one in the morning. We're done

[B]

in the morning. Your clock is wrong. It's 10 o' clock on the.

[A]

On the West Coast.

[B]

I only live on the west coast in Miami. Yeah, but your clock is on the West Coast.

[A]

I mean, it's. It's, It's. It's one. It's ten o'. Clock. It's one at four o' clock somewhere. Right?

[B]

Don't matter to me.

[A]

All right, that's it. Yeah. I mean, we're done. We're all done.

[B]

Yeah. Game [e-mail].

[A]

yeah, game over. Max Kellerman, Rich, Paul, send us your emails. As you can see.

[B]

That was a good email, though, Abu. Thank you for that. That was a good email. Even though. Max, don't wear cologne.

[A]

I don't need.

[B]

Just for that.

[A]

I don't need deodorant just for that.

[B]

I know what I'm buying you for for your birthday.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Cologne, for sure.

[A]

Right, Right. Less that way. All right, y'.

[B]

All alright guys, see you guys on Monday.

[A]

21 and over in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling Problem Call 1-800-Gambler or 1-800-My Reset. Call 1-888-789-7777 or 5. Visit ccpg.orgchatinconnecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hope why in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.

[B]

The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure right now. Get up to 45% off site wide plus get a free professional [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply. What's up? It's ya girl. Jess hilarious co host of the Breakfast Club and now author and narrator of Til Death Do We Parent, my audiobook about the challenges of creating a healthy co parenting relationship and lessons learned on life's journey. Till Death Do We Parent is available on Spotify or wherever audiobooks are sold.