Mike Tomlin Out, Plus Rich’s Reaction to the Reaction

Summary

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Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Host: The Ringer

Episode: Mike Tomlin Out, Plus Rich’s Reaction to the Reaction

Date: January 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This charged and insightful episode dives into the surprising news about Mike Tomlin’s future with the Steelers, explores the massive reactions to Rich Paul’s comments about Austin Reaves and the Lakers, and tackles the complexities of player trades, sports media narratives, and the evolving business of sports. Max Kellerman (seasoned sports analyst) and Rich Paul (super-agent, CEO of Klutch Sports) bring real-life experience and blunt takes, mixing humor with deep context about how stories unfold in the sports world.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The LeBron Narrative and Rich Paul’s Place in Media

Timestamps: 00:33 – 04:43

• Media Blame Game: Max dogs Rich about the Lakers being Rich’s “fault” when they lose and congratulates him when they win. Rich laughs off the idea but calls out the double standard in media coverage.
  • “Congratulations. The Lakers won. You should be congratulated because it was your fault when they lost.” – Max (00:37)
• Real Talk about LeBron Hate: Max notes much of the negativity around LeBron stems from the MJ crowd. Rich, an open LeBron ally and confidante, feels people just want to limit him, but that only fuels his drive.
  • “I'm so tired of being told what I can't do.” – Rich (02:50)
• The ‘Weirdness’ of an Agent Podcast: Both reflect on how rare—and provocative—it is for an active agent to host a pod, especially since Rich is often the source of the “inside info” others speculate on.
  • “It's weird to see an agent have a podcast, but it's not weird to see a player have a podcast.” – Rich (03:33)

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2. Mike Tomlin: Evaluating a Coaching Legacy

Timestamps: 07:41 – 18:34

• Media Criticism on Tomlin: Max attacks the narrative that Tomlin should leave because the Steelers haven’t won a playoff game in 10 years, calling the take “nonsense” and reminding everyone that playoff success is almost impossible without a top quarterback.
  • “No one wins in the playoffs without a quarterback. ... The days of Trent Dilfer—no disrespect—those days are over.” – Max (07:51)
• What Tomlin’s Really Done: Despite no Super Bowl runs post-Roethlisberger and a parade of backup-level QBs, Tomlin never had a losing season—a staggering achievement overlooked by critics.
  • “If you don’t have a quarterback ... and you never have a losing season—come on!” – Max (10:35)
• Tomlin’s Leadership as Matriarch: Rich compares Tomlin's impact to the "grandmother of a family"—the glue keeping it all together. Losing him feels like losing the family's center.
  • “Losing Mike Tomlin is like losing your grandmother in the family.” – Rich (15:04)

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3. Quarterbacks, Team Building, and Hypotheticals

Timestamps: 11:43 – 14:18

• QB Carousel: Discussion covers missed opportunities for the Steelers to acquire someone like Baker Mayfield. Rich champions Baker as a “warrior”—while Max isn’t convinced that’s enough for Super Bowl glory.
  • “Would have been perfect for Mike Tomlin... Baker Mayfield is a warrior.” – Rich (11:43)
• The Market for QBs: Max and Rich break down that “guys do move,” and sometimes teams have to make bold moves or trade up in the draft, rather than settle and blame the coach.
  • “If you identify a quarterback ... you can trade up. It happens all the time.” – Max (11:24)

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4. Youth Sports, Coaching, and Accountability

Timestamps: 17:30 – 19:28

• Broken Youth Sports: Rich expresses frustration with the entitlement in youth sports and adults preventing real coaching and accountability for kids.
  • “As a young person ... there was accountability starting at 9 and 10 years old. ... Now there’s this entitlement.” – Rich (17:55)

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5. Texans vs. Bears – Offense vs. Defense Debate

Timestamps: 20:09 – 24:23

• Which Wins Championships—Elite QB or Elite Defense? Max and Rich set up a Texans (defense-heavy) vs. Bears (offense/CQB) comparison. Ultimately, both agree there’s no easy answer—history supports both models.
  • “Would you rather have ... that dude at quarterback ... or ... that defense is different?” —Max (20:47)
  • “Defense wins championships. But the excitement of the game... you want those big plays.” —Rich (22:09)

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6. The Austin Reaves & Lakers Media Firestorm

Timestamps: 24:23 – 35:36

• Rich Paul’s Hypothetical Moves: Rich laments how his hypothetical comments about possible trades (including Austin Reaves) spun out of control with the media—most critics didn’t even watch the full segment.
  • “Everyone made it about Austin. But that’s how I know they didn’t necessarily watch the whole thing.” – Rich (25:02)
• Clarifying Intentions: He stresses the example was a general discussion about team building, not about trading anyone or relaying any LeBron/Clutch agenda.
  • “This does not mean you want somebody to be traded... it’s a hypothetical.” – Rich (30:44)
• Austin Reaves' Agent Reaction: Rich relates a candid, friendly discussion with AR’s real agent—emphasizing it was all business and not personal.
  • “Love the player, love the person... This is not about Austin Reaves.” – Rich (27:19)
• Media Consumption Critique: Max and Rich riff on the shallowness of much sports media—hype without substance—and promise their show is the “real broccoli.”
  • “There’s so much gibberish on TV that when you hear something of substance... it’s like, you don’t recognize it.” – Rich (48:53)

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7. LeBron’s Response & Navigating Agent-Client Boundaries

Timestamps: 41:55 – 45:37

• LeBron Clears the Air: Max reads LeBron’s statement distancing himself from Rich’s podcast comments, asserting that Rich “is his own man” and the pod is “his platform.”
  • “What Rich says is not a direct reflection of me and how I feel.” – LeBron James via Max (42:10)
• Rich on Agency & Loyalty: Rich appreciates LeBron’s public backing and describes their relationship as mutually respectful and professional, each minding their own business.

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8. Racial Dynamics and Gatekeeping in Sports Business

Timestamps: 39:53 – 40:29

• Industry Barriers: Max points out the “Rich Paul rule” and industry obstacles Rich faced as a young, Black agent in a traditionally older, whiter business.
  • “The issue that you ran into was ... being young and black in an industry that was not young and black.” – Max (39:53)

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9. All-Star Game, Player Motivation, and the Business of Basketball

Timestamps: 53:13 – 71:39

• All-Star Selection: They discuss All-Star snubs, why legacy stars (like LeBron) often get the nod, and how the voting process can neglect hard-working players.
• NBA All-Star Game Should Matter: Max reminisces about more competitive All-Star Games and debates how to incentivize players—cash, special shoes, home court, or something else?
  • “When you are an athlete... Most athletes spend a lot of time trying to show people they're more than just an athlete.” – Rich (65:48)
• Educating Players on Business: Rich argues for a greater focus on teaching players the business side—including how collective fan engagement (like the All-Star Weekend) impacts Basketball Related Income (BRI) and player-ownership dynamics.

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10. Closing Banter & Teasers

Timestamps: 75:00 – end

• Upcoming Topics: Hate mail, fashion tips, comparisons of 80s and 90s movies, and the Knicks-vs-Lakers championship race are teased for Friday’s show.
• Show Philosophy & Appeal: Both hosts reemphasize why Game Over is different: real access, real game, and unvarnished truth—no matter the discomfort.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tomlin’s Criticism (Max, 09:40): “No one wins in the playoffs without a quarterback. ... The days of Trent Dilfer—no disrespect—those days are over.”
• On agent-client boundaries (LeBron, 42:10): “What Rich says is not a direct reflection of me and how I feel.” (read by Max)
• On Clutch and media bias (Rich, 35:55): “Most people are looking at it one sided. ... They’re putting everything against a 6'8", 260lb guy.”
• On sports media (Rich, 48:53): “There's so much gibberish on TV that when you hear something that actually has substance to it... you don't really recognize it.”
• On being told “you can’t” (Rich, 03:13): “I'm just tired of being told what I can't do. ... I couldn't start Klutch Sports Group. I couldn't do this. ... I'm so tired of being told what I can't do.”

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Important Segment Timestamps

• LeBron/MJ media narratives: 00:48 – 03:51
• Tomlin’s legacy debate: 07:41 – 18:34
• QBs and “you need a guy” in the NFL: 11:43 – 14:18
• Youth sports & accountability: 17:30 – 19:28
• Bears v. Texans (defense vs. QB): 20:09 – 24:23
• Austin Reaves trade drama fallout: 24:23 – 35:36
• LeBron’s response on Rich Paul’s independence: 41:55 – 45:37
• All-Star Game incentives and legacy: 53:13 – 71:39

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Tone & Style

The episode is conversational, at times combative, always blunt. Max brings the seasoned media skepticism; Rich delivers both street wisdom and the inside business view. Their teasing, mutual respect, and willingness to “keep it real” set the tone.

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For New Listeners

If you want behind-the-scenes insight into sports business, unfiltered takes on trending stories, and banter that’s both sharp and relatable, this episode of “Game Over” is must-listen. Even if you missed the show, you’ll come away knowing why the Mike Tomlin debate matters, how sports narratives get built and spun, and what happens when a high-power agent shifts from making the deals to telling the real story—mic in hand.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

For what?

[A]

Congratulations. The Lakers won. You should be congratulated because it was your fault when they lost. The Lakers lose a game, it was your fault.

[B]

All the media coverage.

[A]

I've seen all the media coverage. Rich Paul says this about Austin Reese. The Lakers lose, it's your fault. Well, last night they played second to back to back on the road. Your dude went bananas.

[B]

I did see one comment that said JJ must have showed Rich's trade proposal at halftime. I thought that was pretty funny. I thought that was pretty funny.

[A]

No, no, for real. People have to get it through their heads if it's your fault when they lose, right? They just beat a good team that's been winning since the trade. Atlanta won three in a row. LeBron shows up 62 years old, second a back to back on the road, went for 30. What?

[B]

And what last night? Yeah, I went to the game. 31, 10 and 9.

[A]

31, 10, 9 in a blowout win. So congratulations, you did great work getting that win.

[B]

Stop it. But okay, yeah, I think if I'm gonna get the blame, I should get the credit, right? This is what I'm saying. That should be how it works. But no, I think people are just.

[A]

So funny to me how. And I think a lot of it comes actually from the MJ crowd. I'll tell you why the hate that like LeBron gets and you get. I'm MJ all day, right? You and I debated about this forever. MJ or LeBron? I don't think it's a tough choice. It's MJ one. I don't think it's a Tough choice for two. I think LeBron comes in two. But I think a lot of the MJ people feed a lot of this. They wanna look for reasons. LeBron's trying to control the narrative. I remember reading that this show is put together by LeBron, right? Like nothing. LeBron's got nothing to do with this show.

[B]

No, not at all. And again, I think people expect. I don't know what they expect, right? I don't know if you saw LeBron's comments or whatever. I don't know what they expect. But what I do know is this show can't be called Game over and give fake game. You just can't do it. You have to get a real. And if you can, if you can, you cannot like the messenger and respect the message. Right. And I know it's. People say it's awkward, but I'm gonna tell you something, Max. I'm so tired of being told what I can't do. Like.

[A]

No, kids, if you want Rich to do something, it's like. I know it's like an old cliche, but tell him he can't do it, and then he's gonna be determined to do it.

[B]

Yeah. I'm just tired of being told what I can't do. They told me I couldn't do, you know, I couldn't start Clutch Sports Group. I couldn't do this. I couldn't write a book. I couldn't do that.

[A]

It's just like, I wish people would have told me I can't do anything. Seems like that's a great everyone I hear who does great things, it's. Cause they couldn't. And no one ever told me, you can't do this. And so I've done. Okay.

[B]

And it's weird. It's weird to see an agent have a podcast, but it's not weird to see a player have a podcast.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's weird to see. It's not weird to see another executive in Hollywood have a podcast. Or actor or actresses have a podcast. Like, but it's weird for me to have a podcast with a guy who's been in the game for so long.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's a little weird.

[A]

I gotta tell you the truth. It is a little weird. One of the things that was interesting to me about doing this is like, wow, an active agent who's gonna be common, like, you're the source. How many times on first take would you and I be talking? I'm getting information from you, right?

[B]

Yeah, but I'm not. But in this case, it was hypothetical. It's not like I'm giving you information that I know is factual.

[A]

All right, we're gonna get to all this, okay. Because believe it or not, people are gonna fast forward through this part. I got stuff to say about Mike Tomlinson.

[B]

I got stuff to say about my time.

[A]

But the bottom line is all the insiders that you get information from, this is straight from the horse's mouth. Like, so if you think that, oh, Rich is pulling the strings behind the scenes, then I guess you have to watch the show. You got to Download the podcast, right?

[B]

Yeah. Please subscribe. That I agree with. Please subscribe. Please.

[A]

Max Kellerman, Rich Paul. Game Over.

[B]

Please subscribe.

[A]

Game over is presented by fanduel. Fanduel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com gameover to get started 21 and over and present in select states or 18 and over and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenetic.

[B]

Max, before we start. Yeah, I really want to give my man Jay Lucas. You know J. You know John Lucas. Yeah, John Lucas. John Lucas, the coach. Ex player. His son is. His youngest son is Jay Lucas. And Jay Lucas was at Duke. He was coaching at Texas. He went over to Duke. He played at Texas. But he's a coach, obviously, his dad was a coach. He's following his footsteps, et cetera. But he's now at the University of Miami at his basketball program.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I got this text from you last night.

[B]

Yeah, he's 15 and 2. I was so happy to see that. Cause he's just such a good dude. And, you know, like, you working your way up, you're at Duke. It's a great job. Like, who. Who wants to leave Duke basketball? Right. But he went and. And he decided to step out on his own. And he's 15 and 2 at the University of Miami, which we all know is a football school, obviously.

[A]

And everything's changing now. Indiana is a football school. Yes.

[B]

It's going in reverse. But I just wanted to say that because I was like, I seen it and I didn't have time to hit them, but I thought that was pretty cool.

[A]

Congratulations, Jay Lucas.

[B]

I also thought, I don't know if you didn't watch the Golden Globes, but.

[A]

I did not watch the Golden Globes.

[B]

But Teyana Taylor's speech was so profound.

[A]

I did see clips of that on social media.

[B]

Yeah, you should watch. They should play that in schools for all children. In this case, she was talking about black and brown girls, which is definitely.

[A]

I mean, representation not only on a certain level but in certain roles is important because people, kids can see that. Oh, that person looks like that. That's open to me.

[B]

And if you haven't Seen that movie? Have you saw the movie?

[A]

I haven't, no.

[B]

Oh, which movie?

[A]

I don't even know what movie it is.

[B]

They killed it. They killed it with Leo. One battle after another. Yeah, yeah, they killed it. I mean, from start to finish, everybody. Gina, I heard mixed things about it. No. And there's nothing like that. There's no mix. Nothing. It's a really good.

[A]

I was going to go see it and then.

[B]

Okay, no, you should see it. You should definitely see it. But I just wanted to.

[A]

Speaking of coaches, I got to get this off my chest about Mike Tomlin because all the coverage of Mike Tomlin retiring from the lake, from the Lakers, from the Steelers, getting pushed out, it was time to go, whatever it is. Focus on the fact that they haven't won a playoff game in like 10 years. And he inherited Cower's team and that's when they win the Super Bowl. And what has he done the last 10 years? Stop. Everybody stop, stop. No one wins in the playoffs without a quarterback. No one. It does not happen. If the Texans, who I picked to win the super bowl, you know, I said I took them as, as, as live for the super bowl over a month ago, but. But I picked them several weeks ago because that defense is just different, right? A defense like that pops up every once in a while. If they don't win the super bowl, it's because C.J. stroud didn't get it done. And he looked terrible, by the way, against the Steelers. I'm a CJ Stroud fan. I was like, oh, that's not good. If they don't, it's because if you don't have one of those guys, a special quarterback, you don't do shit in the playoffs. That's how it goes in the NFL. The days of Trent Dilfer. No disrespect to Trent Dilfer, but those days are over. It doesn't happen. So let's look at Mike Tomlin over the last 10 years. Ben Roth, you could say until 2018, maybe there were two years, 17 and 18 where he had a real quarterback and didn't win a playoff game. Two years, by the way, he's a Super bowl winning coach. Two years he didn't win a playoff game. Then Roethlisberger gets hurt, misses almost all the season, comes back. He's clearly not the same. To who have they had at quarterback since? The best quarterback they've had is this year, a 42 year old Aaron Rodgers, who obviously didn't want to get hit anymore. Aaron, I'm not Saying that you weren't saving it for the playoffs. I believe you were. But he was being careful during the year.

[B]

As he should.

[A]

As he should. Why? LeBron doesn't play defense every night.

[B]

I didn't want to get hit at 14, let alone 41. Are you crazy?

[A]

I never had the shoulder. Shoulder pads on for that.

[B]

I did and I quit. I didn't quit.

[A]

Everyone hit puberty and you were out of there.

[B]

I didn't quit the team. Once I got to high school at Benedictine and I saw guys like Salem Simon and Tim Cheetwood, I said, you know what, guys? This is a rap. It's a wrap.

[A]

It's a clever.

[B]

It is done. You don't have to worry about me because that's going to be different than getting the wind knocked out of you playing down a man. This is different. This guy is 6, 5.

[A]

You don't even know where the hits are coming from half the time. So he has not had a quarterback. Forget the 10 year thing. You can blame him for two years of no playoff wins. 2. But he has never had a losing season. I don't think people fully appreciate this. If you don't have a quarterback in the NFL and no excuses, you never have a losing season.

[B]

Rich.

[A]

Well, here's the other argument about Tomlin. Okay, I know I'm on a rant, but I've been this.

[B]

We're used to that. Max. Don't worry, we ran a lot.

[A]

Yeah, I do. Listen, I'm enjoying you tell stories in Ireland.

[B]

I like your outfit, by the way.

[A]

Thank you. Likewise. Good sweater.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah, Ralph. And Ralph, we like you, too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like the Spider man meme.

[A]

That's right, Ralph. That's right. Exactly. So where was I? Tomlin.

[B]

Tomlin. Rant.

[A]

The idea that I've heard floated this morning is Tomlin is bad for your could, not bad for your franchise.

[B]

But.

[A]

But the Steelers, it had run its course because since he's competitive every year, you're never picking at the top of the draft. So how are you ever going to get a quarterback? Oh, what kind of nonsense.

[B]

This is crazy, man.

[A]

If you identify a quarterback in the draft that you like, you can trade up. It happens all the time. You're going to blame Mike Tomlin for the fact that the team, in 10 or seven years since Roethlisberger was cooked, I will say he hasn't gotten a quarterback. It's his fault.

[B]

I will say. You know who I would. I mean, he's in a good spot now, but you know who would have Been perfect for Mike Tomlin and the Pittsburgh Steelers and that fan base. Baker Mayfield.

[A]

Okay, but Baker, to me, Rich, is a BB plus.

[B]

It don't matter.

[A]

He's good. But I'm talking about. Baker Mayfield's not going to win the Super Bowl. He would have.

[B]

Trent Dilker won a Super Bowl.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl.

[A]

Those days are over. I'm just saying those days are over. Ain't gonna happen.

[B]

But here's the thing. What I'm saying is if there was a. If there was a world where you take that football player. Baker Mayfield is a warrior. And we didn't appreciate him when we had him for our team. Yeah, Cleveland, Baker Mayfield is a warrior. You put that mentality next to Mike Tomlin in that legacy, they'll win some.

[A]

Playoff games, but they're not going to win a superhero.

[B]

I don't know that to be true. Because. Because. Because then it allows you to do other things. I can't say that and you can't.

[A]

I'm not saying it's important.

[B]

You can say it's unlikely. They may.

[A]

No, you're right, Baker. I don't mean to diss Baker. Baker's a good quarterback.

[B]

I'm just saying.

[A]

I'm saying you need, like, you need more than that. Brock Purdy, for me, was a guy I was looking at like, he's good. Could he win a Super Bowl? He's convinced me. Brock Purdy is excellent. Right. Baker Mayfield, to me, I'm on the fence. Can you win a quarter a Super bowl with him? I think so. Maybe. But you need a lot.

[B]

But what I'm saying is he's not.

[A]

One of these super quarterbacks.

[B]

Understood. And very few are. See, we get. We very. It's not like it's 30 super quarterbacks in the NFL. All I'm saying is, Baker Tomlin, Steelers from front office culture.

[A]

Okay? Lock room, all those things when you add it.

[B]

Because sometimes it's strength in numbers. That's all I'm saying.

[A]

Let's take from a larger perspective on that. Let's make it a more general point. If what you're saying is, even if you don't package your draft picks to move up and take the exact guy you want in the draft, there are guys that move. Sam Darnold. Baker Mayfield.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

By the way, same draft. Darnold has been boom or bust, but when he's been boom, he's good.

[B]

He's really good.

[A]

Right. So there are guys you can get in like out there on the market. The Steelers didn't either. They didn't draft and they didn't bring a guy in. And Tomlin, in spite of not having a quarterback for seven years, now, I think it's seven, has never had a losing season.

[B]

It's remarkable. It's remarkable. My thing for Mike Tomlin, when I look at Mike Tomlin and what he meant to that organization and just also what he meant to the NFL. I used to love watching his press conferences. And he even said. He said, you know what? People talk too much in Arlee. Like, you either do or you don't. That to me, that's football. That's Mike Tomlinson. And it also reminds me of my grandmother. Like, losing Mike Tomlin is like losing your grandmother in the family. Because once you lose your grandmother in the family, things just go all over the place. When my grandmother was leading the family reunion, guess what? When she said, those dudes are to be in by the second week of July, they were there. When she said, everyone got to has.

[A]

To bring a dish, she held the whole thing together.

[B]

They brought a dish, and it wasn't cold. It was hot. You know, like. And then after she passed, no offense to Cause, you know, I may get a Facebook message from one of my aunts cursing me out.

[A]

Yeah, but you could always say, come on, you're not grandma.

[B]

No, but this happened when one of my aunts didn't get a pair of my shoes. She didn't call me to curse me out, but she did curse me out. On Facebook. On Facebook. Which is. But anyway, the point I'm making is the matriarch of it all. And that's Mike Tomlin to me. But at the same time, I could understand him also, he has a daughter in college that's on the gymnastics team. I think she goes to Georgia, who he definitely says is the best athlete in the house. And there's a world where he's given this game of football on the field and as a coach so much that it's also okay for him to go and enjoy the fruits of his labor.

[A]

Be a broadcaster. There's gonna be bidding.

[B]

Broadcaster, spend that time, all that. You know, for me, I was able to meet Mike Tomlins agent. We talked, and I've never been able to really talk and meet with Mike Tomlin. But Mike, if you're watching the show, if you ever come to la, you know, because I doubt if I come to Pittsburgh anytime soon. There's no football being played and there's no basketball there either. But that's one of the dinners I would love to take, because I think he would. Because at the same time, as much as he's a coach, he's just a real guy.

[A]

The crazy thing, now that you say that, you know who wouldn't be trying to hear my excuse about Tomlin not winning?

[B]

Your grandmother. No.

[A]

Yeah. Tomlin, like me defending Tomlin, saying, well, he hasn't won a playoff game in this many years. He hasn't had a quarterback. The one dude who'd be like, I'm not trying to hear that.

[B]

Is Tomlinson said it.

[A]

Like Tomlinson, he said it.

[B]

Either you do or you don't.

[A]

I mean, he's my favorite coach. I'm not claiming Tomlin was the best coach in the league. He's one of them. But he has been my favorite coach of a different team. That's that. Not my team, maybe ever.

[B]

And that mentality, if you ask any coach in any sport at any age, from the youth all the way up to the pros, that will help them become or be better coaches. Because coaches deal with so much, and it starts in the youth. And this is why youth sports in America is broken. It starts there.

[A]

You saying bad coaching.

[B]

Not even bad coaching. Not actually being allowed to coach. Excuses being made and no accountability. As a young person, when I coach, I had my Uncle Warren, I had Coach Sumrall, I had Coach Fisher, Coach Hightower. I'm missing a couple. Coach Stovall. We were held to a different standard. There was accountability starting at 9 and 10 years old. So by the time I got to Frank Novak at my high school, it was a different dynamic, and I didn't even play that.

[A]

Every parent thinks their kid is gonna be a star, and it's about developing the kid.

[B]

Yeah, but here's the thing. It's not like I was a star in high school sports. I didn't play that much. But I love to go to practice. I love to be with my teammates. And a lot of it had to do with the upbringing that I had from a coaching perspective. I tried out for the team. I made it. The season's this long. Although I'm not playing as much as I would have liked to. That don't mean I dogged it. You know, there's a lot of things missing today. So now when you get to the pro level and you see guys and there's this entitlement that they bring inside the locker room, and now their name is called to get in, and you don't know to play, it's because you're sitting there with this entitlement. And then when you go home, there's also this environment of people saying, oh, they tripping, they bugging. Oh, they acting like you already did something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, no, that's not the case. So we're gonna miss Mike Tomlin, just to say the least.

[A]

And I'll say this, and then. Cause there's a certain topic need to get into. But can we just do.

[B]

Can we just do the show? See, you want to. You want to skip over certain things. I know what you're trying to get to, Max.

[A]

Well, no, but.

[B]

Okay, we're going to talk about it.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I'm not running.

[A]

No, there's another football topic I want to. I wanted to. I know you're not running from the other thing. We're going to talk about that whole thing in a second. But I thought. It's like this Texans Bears matchup, to me is really interesting.

[B]

Coming up, Texans Bears.

[A]

Sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm getting ahead of. I'm getting over my skis.

[B]

That's your super bowl pick.

[A]

I'm getting over my skis.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

When I saw Caleb Williams, I thought, this is possible, that they can make the Super Bowl.

[B]

You know, I'm saying the Bears is.

[A]

Going to take you, and I've taken the Texans to win the super bowl weeks ago. So I'm doing our matchup. Pardon me, everybody. It's highly unlikely that happens. The Bears have no defense, and it remains to be seen if the Texans have a quarterback. But. But that's my point.

[B]

But I found something out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In the event I think this is correct, I was told this last night. If the Rams win and the Seahawks lose, there's a home game at SoFi.

[A]

Right. So that's possible. Right? It's possible. But the reason I'm thinking of Texans and Bears is because watching over the weekend, what would you rather have a team that has no defense but has that dude at quarterback? Because Caleb plays better with the money on the line. Right. He has that thing and he has all the talent in the world. Or would you rather have. I've been saying it for a while now. Every 10 years or so, you see a team at some point in the season, you go, that defense is different. It's different. I bring up The Bucs, the one. The year they won the Super bowl in 02, I think it was 02. Every now and then, you remember that Ravens defense. You remember? And watching the Texans, we watched the Rams beat them early in the season. But it Was a tough game.

[B]

Tough game. Yeah.

[A]

And the Texans defense got better and better. Would you rather have that kind of like. Oh, my God. I'll always remember that defense. But I don't know about the quarterback or the. Oh, my God quarterback. But they have no defense. Cause you're taking the Bears, and I'm taking The Texans. And C.J. stroud. I'm a fan of. C.J. stroud was awful. He was awful. He has to play better than that, or they. Or they're not going to do anything.

[B]

I think in Super Bowls, you want to.

[A]

You want the quarterback.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Just for the excitement of the game. But the. But the irony of that is defense wins championships.

[A]

This is what I say.

[B]

So I don't. I don't. You know, defense. Defense definitely wins championships. But the excitement of the game. You want those big plays.

[A]

How do you want to win? Like you're trying to win the Super Bowl. Well, you want to win the super bowl with. With, I think, a guy who's becoming a great quarterback before our eyes, right? In high leverage moments. Is it possible when they don't play defense? Or is. Is that, you know, is that even possible? Is it more likely than a team that would. They'll kill you on defense. But the quarterback looked like a deer in headlights.

[B]

Honestly, Max, I don't know the answer to that one.

[A]

I don't know. I'm still. I'm staying with the Texans because I believe in CJ Stroud. I think sometimes, like, there are a lot of.

[B]

I believe in CJ Stroud who.

[A]

Or a lot of players who early in their careers, they got to get adjusted to the playoffs, and then they.

[B]

I also believe in that defense.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Anderson and Hunter.

[A]

Yeah. That's another thing. Tomlin. Tomlin's not the Steelers coach anymore because they just lost to a defense I believe we're going to remember 10, 20 years.

[B]

Well, that definitely wasn't his fault, because that defense anchored by Anderson and Hunter, it's killer.

[A]

They got. They got a secondary, too.

[B]

I told you. I love. I love. I love Will Anderson's parents. Yeah, they're the best.

[A]

Did you have him in the suite that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I met them.

[B]

You met them both? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're the best. Remember?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Football.

[A]

Football. Family. For real.

[B]

Yeah. Mom and dad knows football. Remember his dad kept yelling, don't play with him every.

[A]

Every play. And he was tearing it up.

[B]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It was. Listen, I don't know. I think that defense. If the Texans get there, that defense is going to give you a chance to win for sure.

[A]

Saving on your education should be a right, not a competition. At University of Phoenix, you'll get the best scholarship or savings you qualify for. Simple as that. Explore scholarship options at University of Phoenix. Now we get to the good stuff. Is this the meat and potatoes or is this the sizzle right now? So there has been an enormous reaction to what you said about the Lakers and Austin Reaves on Monday.

[B]

Yes, it has.

[A]

There's been an enormous reaction. I'm talking about articles coming out. Rich Paul is ruining the Lakers.

[B]

Let me ask you a question, though, before you get into this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How many people you think actually watched the show and watched it or if they didn't even watch the show, if they watched the full take or did they see a clip and then just start commenting?

[A]

Unfortunately, we know the answer to that question. I would love for them all to. I would invite them all to watch the show.

[B]

Yes, please watch the show.

[A]

Because the reason why I'm not begging anyone to watch this or don't.

[B]

The reason why I say that is because everyone made it about Austin.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

But that's how I know they didn't necessarily watch the whole thing.

[A]

Do you. Real quick, as an aside, you ever been to Reno?

[B]

Reno?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nevada.

[A]

Nevada?

[B]

Yeah. No, I only go to Renova.

[A]

I've been to Reno, Nevada.

[B]

For what?

[A]

A fight?

[B]

Golf outing.

[A]

A fight.

[B]

Who was fighting in Reno, Nevada that must have been.

[A]

I don't even remember, but I remember Lennox Lewis and I hanging out in Reno because we were calling the fight. But anyway, the Simpsons had a whole episode on this.

[B]

Was it Covid?

[A]

Nah, nah, it was before.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

But years before. But the Simpsons had a whole episode on this about how, like, dead celebrities are actually still alive, but they're in Reno. Okay. And then once they realize they're in Reno, they just disintegrate. So, like, the Austin Reese thing, you can be entertained by. There's a ton of choices for entertainment and you can find other pods and everything entertaining. And by all means, you should watch it if you want to know what's going on. Like, sometimes you might be entertained, but you're kind of in Reno. Like, nothing that happens there really matters. Sorry. Reno. I think people are aware versus Vegas. You go to Vegas. It's happening.

[B]

Yes. It's the real.

[A]

This is Vegas. If you want to know what's going on, if you want to know what, like, what people will be talking about the next day, subscribe. You can say, please, I'm not going to Say please. Because if you don't want to know what's happening, it's up to you.

[B]

I'm still going to say please, but he's right. Yeah.

[A]

So, okay. How many people, probably not enough, who commented on what you said, actually watched the clip? Even the full clip, right?

[B]

Including my man Reg, who happens to be Austin's agent. We talked. This is my guy. I mean, I've known him for 20 years. And he said, rich, I didn't watch the show. Okay, so we talked about it. And I'm like, look, Reg, you my man. And I want Austin to know. This is not about Austin Reaves, because one, love the player, love the person. And two, I actually need him to help me with my golf game. So I'm not trying to mess up anything with ar.

[A]

I don't remember who. I think it was I who brought up. You brought it up, Reaves, because you were saying this is how they could get him and you were talking about draft picks and matching salaries and expiring. But guys, the obvious thing is that Austin Reaves is a really good player and he's about to get paid. And there's a little bit of redundancy on the team because they already have an on ball scorer in Luka.

[B]

But see, I'm starting to figure this out now. Max, I think you're doing this shit on purpose.

[A]

I'm setting you up.

[B]

I really do. I really do. Because this is about the fourth time you done put me in this situation by getting me to elaborate on something.

[A]

Guilty.

[B]

And the reason why you do that is because you know through our previous history that I cannot lie.

[A]

Yes, you will teach me.

[B]

And I'm gonna be straightforward. And teams know this as well. But you're not slick and you won't get me again. But for the sake of this one.

[A]

I absolutely get you again. I'll get you on this show.

[B]

For the sake of this one. I am gonna be detailed about this. Okay, first of all, if you watch the show, which you should, and you watched the full take, this was a hypothetical conversation we were having if I was running a team, not this is what's going to happen, et cetera. Secondly, I believe it's very complimentary to AR because he's on a team with two future hall of Famers and he happens to be the asset, right? So that's not a negative thing.

[A]

Unless you want to move Luka. Like, you know. But we all know the reality. Look, honestly, who, what would you rather do if you were the Lakers? And box office is not trying to get them all.

[B]

No, you're not. You're not about to do that.

[A]

Let me say what I would.

[B]

I would do that, Max, if I.

[A]

Were the Lakers, I would give serious consideration to moving Luca, and I'll tell you why. Oh, my God. You are going to get. If you believe. If you believe there's a redundancy Austin and Luka. Luke is a better player than Austin Reeves. I understand that Luke is a fantastic player offensively, but if you want to win a championship, I believe that your best player needs to be someone who is willing to at least play team defense, like Steph Curry. Bad defender. Steph's a bad defender, but he is a willing defender. It's not his fault he's not good at it. He's just built that way, whatever. But he's. He's a great offensive player, not a great defensive player, but he's a willing team defender. So the warriors can field championship teams. If your best player isn't that very hard to win a championship, There is a world in which if you're really trying to win a championship and you're the Lakers, you go, I can get X. Luka and Austin are redundant. I can get X for Austin. I can get 3x for Luka. You might consider moving Luka. This is me saying it, but do.

[B]

You agree with that?

[A]

Rich?

[B]

Here's what I will say. I will say this, and this is complimentary to ar. If you were sitting here and you said, rich, you take this one, I'll take that one. I'm not saying they're equal players, but what I am saying is, however you want me to start to then build the rest of my team, I'm fine.

[A]

Either way with Luka or Austin. In other words, I can build a team. Choose one, because they're redundant.

[B]

All I'm saying is I can build a team either way. Now, for the people that want to talk about that, want to play fantasy basketball. I'm not playing fantasy basketball. We're talking about hypotheticals. This does not mean you want somebody to be traded. And there's some insider information in the locker room. And this is not a LeBron thing. This is not any of that. But if you want to be educated in this case, then I think I fit the bill to educate you. I've been educating you for how long, Max?

[A]

On basketball.

[B]

On basketball.

[A]

For years.

[B]

Yeah, for years.

[A]

You will put me up on game in terms of what's happening behind the scenes. You've been a source of mine for. I don't know, years and years now.

[B]

You don't have to. You don't have to, by the way.

[A]

And I'm an MJ guy, everybody, right? Like, it's not this idea.

[B]

And I'm an MJ guy, too, but.

[A]

I mean, like, this idea that unless you bow down to LeBron James, the clutch won't mess with you is ridiculous. Well, we debate this all the time.

[B]

And that's a whole nother conversation. But what I will say is this. When you're talking about what we were talking about, building a team, and I'm talking about, excuse me, building a team to win, they don't hang banners on a Wednesday night, right? They hang banners. You win them in June and you hang them in October. That's the way that works. And you don't have to like the messenger, but you just have to respect the message if it has some type of substance to it. Now, there's a lot of shows that's giving you. If we were babies, they're giving you this baby food. That's. It's baby food, but it says it's broccoli, but I don't know. You know, when I was a kid, you go over Granny's back to Grandma, she would boil that broccoli and she would smash it up real good and feed you that is real broccoli. This game over is the real deal. It's real broccoli.

[A]

My grandmother made knishes, but okay.

[B]

Okay, knishes. Same thing, right? So the point I'm trying to make is I cannot sit here to our viewers, Whether we have one subscriber or 1 million subscribers, I'm never going to lie to you. I'm never going to give you something that. That make you look silly. When you go to the gym, when you go to the barbershop, when you go to the hair salon. I'm never like, I want you to be able to take something away. It doesn't mean it's factual. No, it's hypothetical. Now, if you want to talk facts, we can talk facts, but that's really going to be troubling for me.

[A]

Good.

[B]

That's really going to be troubling.

[A]

Anything that makes trouble for you is good.

[B]

For all of it is not good.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because I have a day job and they already said I can't do something, so now you're trying to get me in more trouble?

[A]

Yeah, if you. Yeah, well, Rich, here, watch this. I understand if you're not. If they won't let you talk about this, I get it. So we can Move on if you want because.

[B]

No, I don't want to move on.

[A]

Because you're not allowed to do it, Rich, you can't do this. I'm sure people have told you that. So now let's just move on.

[B]

Okay, Let me finish, then we can move on.

[A]

Yes, please.

[B]

So if you're building a championship team and you have player one based upon what that player one is actually capable of doing, its strengths, you then have to build the rest of the team based upon style of play, its weaknesses, its strengths to be compatible. Now if you choose to go the route of some teams that has one max player to start, they draft it well. So they have players that's playing on lower salaries, but they're giving you close to max production and you're able to then fill in the blanks with veteran free agents coming in that either brings you great locker room presence, great three and D presence, great rebounding, whatever the case may be. That's one way of structuring it. If you have to go another way, were you going to have cap space, but maybe you didn't draft any guys that developed into anything. So now I have to actually spend the dollar and the dollar is spent with the, with the player coming with it, then that limits me. So now my balance sheet has to look a certain way to fill in those other blanks. You guys can decide. I know we're in Hollywood, Max, but I'm from Cleveland and when I moved to la, I packed the reel in my carry on. I didn't leave the reel back in Cleveland. So I can't get on here and be like just give you anything. I think it's enough of that because I see a lot of takes out here that doesn't make any sense. And I understand my position. I understand. Well, Rich, when you say something, it kind of sits a little bit different.

[A]

Yeah. For you're an active super agent.

[B]

Yeah. But most people are looking at it one sided. They're putting everything against a six, eight and a half, 260 pound guy. They're not saying it because of your expertise, which is an underhanded, a backhanded compliment. Right. It's a slight.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because it would be different if they're saying, well, Rich, we really value your expertise and that makes a lot of sense. So with you saying that, don't give a team an idea because this could possibly happen. I see you get what I'm saying. Maybe I should go on my game. That your strength, LeBron and Nash, your.

[A]

Strength as an agent, in my opinion, you have lots of strengths as an agent. In my opinion, maybe your best one is that you are able to explain to teams and players why a certain move is actually in their best interest and it makes enough sense for them to act upon that. But I agree. You and I have had a lot of conversations through the years where you have persuaded me of your point of view. And not always, but a lot of times it turns out to be correct.

[B]

It makes sense.

[A]

And that's why I adopted that position. Because we talked about this with kcp, right? I was not high on KCP as an addition at first. And then, and then you started explaining the why of it. And I thought, you know what? He's right. He's right.

[B]

And he was.

[A]

You also do that with teams. Why this client might, hey, Celtics, if you trade for ad, he's not going to resign there. You're not lying to them. Right? He didn't have a desire to be there. So that reduces the package they're willing to give him. It makes it possible for him to get to his preferred destination, Lakers.

[B]

Because I'm never going to put myself in a position where I compromise or jeopardize the integrity in a relationship. I'm never going so much. So just the other day when we were talking about a different team, the team called me and said, hey, Rich, I really appreciate your take. You could have went a whole totally different way. I'm not, I'm not up here to do, to give any malice.

[A]

I think people have assumptions about the way things operate at a certain level. Right. But, and by the way, I have been in a lot of those rooms throughout my life. Sometimes they do operate on that level. Sometimes people are full of shit and they conspire. There are other ways of doing business though, where, I mean, of course people are all self interested. They're gonna do business, conduct business for their own good, of course. But the way people assume things operate at certain levels is not always the way they are.

[B]

And what is assumptions for? We know what assumptions is for. But I saw. And here's the other thing. Sometimes you see comments and it's like, well, what if another agent was in the same position and they was talking about his player? Well, great. One thing I wouldn't do, one, I wouldn't care. Two, I mean, I get agents go into family living rooms and lie on me every single day. There's an agent or agency of some sort going into a family's living room right now. They're probably there right now saying, look, why would you want to sign with Rich and clutch it. He has a podcast. He's never going to care about your son, and he only cares about LeBron and this and that. They do this. They've been doing this since 2012. And you know what I do, Max, when I see these people, I walk up on them, I shake their hand. You don't hear a peep from me about anything unless it becomes something that you blatantly disrespected me on. Then that's the difference. Then that's the difference.

[A]

I mean, the real reason that we're doing this podcast together, because there are options to do like this, is that I believe that we have a mutual admiration society in terms of the way we both conduct ourselves. In that respect, I've always appreciated the way you've conducted yourself. And I presume the feeling is mutual.

[B]

Or we wouldn't be doing it. Of course we wouldn't be doing it. And the thing is, I can walk and chew bubble gum for somebody to say, you can't do something. They've been saying, I can't do something for how long? But you didn't say to Mark Zuckerberg, oh, Mark, man, you built Facebook. You can't buy Instagram. What do you mean? Why not?

[A]

Leave that white man out of this. He can do whatever you want.

[B]

No, no, no. Don't make it about that. No, don't make it about that.

[A]

But it is rich. I'm just saying the issue that you ran into was an issue of being young and black in an industry that was not young and black. That's why if you go off on your own, oh, you're stabbing someone in the back. That's why if you do something for yourself, it's not okay. That's why there was a Rich Paul rule. You need a college degree in order to. Those things are aimed at you because you're operating in a world that traditionally has not.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, it's not that there haven't been black agents, but not as young as you, coming from where you came from.

[B]

But listen, not to make it about race. You can make it. This is not a race thing. What I'm saying is there's also a thing where I see things as like, well, if that was my agent, I would be telling him this. It's because you see the way they view an agent. My guys don't view me like that. There's a mutual respect, because if it wasn't, they wouldn't be a client. I don't have that so much.

[A]

So you I want to read something that LeBron said. Okay, great. Because he was asked about the comments, the articles, by the way. Lakers lose a game. You make these comments. Lakers lose. It's your fault. Everyone, they're there. You could Google it, article after article. Rich Paul, what's he doing on this podcast? And that tone deaf night, they blow out the Hawks and LeBron goes bananas. And now is that. I guess that's your fault too. But LeBron was asked about this. I believe this was after the loss, right? This is before the.

[B]

No, that was okay after the win last night.

[A]

So this is last night. LeBron's.

[B]

Someone was sent to ax him. He didn't voluntarily.

[A]

Yeah, someone asked him the question. He answered.

[B]

Yeah, but it was sent. Someone was sent to ask the question so they can have him on the record. So it could be pushed out to the fans to say, hey, look, LeBron, you know, because instead of just educating the fans. But that's a whole nother story. So read the thing.

[A]

Here's LeBron's comments. Quote. I think you all know by now Rich is his own man. And what Rich says is not a direct reflection of me and how I feel. James told ESPN on his way out of crypto.com arena and we need to attribute. What's the attribution here, Jesse?

[B]

That was Dave McMenamin.

[A]

Oh, this is McMenamon. You told me that. Yes, Dave McMenamin, my guy from ESPN Radio back in the day. Yes, And I hope people know that. I hope people know that. And if they're not sensible to know that, then I don't know what to tell them. Ar, Austin Reaves knows how I feel about him. All you gotta do is look at us on the bench. Me and AR talk every single day. So AR knows how I feel about him, and I hope AR or his camp don't look at me and think, this is words from me that are coming through. Rich. Rich. That's what he's doing. He's talking about the POD now. That's his whole thing. That's what he's doing. That's what he's talking about. I have zero conversations about what his topics are gonna be or what they're gonna talk about. He's his own man, and that is his platform.

[B]

That is a fact.

[A]

So what is that like to have, like, your most famous client, your richest client, your most successful business is the LeBron James business? And what is that like to have a. When that person says that. Cause he doesn't have to say that.

[B]

He.

[A]

He could take you aside and say, hey, rich man, this is causing me problems. I don't need. How does that work?

[B]

He understands this is not like a podcast playground. We're in the content business. And after you get done saying all these different terms, just end it with business. I'm a businessman first. This is a business. So this is my business, just like he has his business. I think it's a respectful behavior that we have towards one another. I think you see agent client behavior. And I think the other thing that sits up under that is he knows. He knows that I wouldn't sitting here be doing. I don't do anything with malice or with spite. And if there was something I wanted to say, I go right to the source.

[A]

But that's actually a special guy. LeBron, like, I understand I've said this on the pod, why LeBron would be perplexed about coverage of him. Because 99, you know, he's a one in a billion basketball player, and then he's expected to be a one in a million person too, which he really is like to be in this environment. And almost never. I've criticized LeBron. I've criticized LeBron.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

About his criticism of Daryl Morey and the whole China thing. I was strong criticism of LeBron at the time, but that's here and there. Like people can do things that deserve criticism. If you're LeBron James and you go 99% of my game and 99% of me as a person is positive, why does the coverage feel like it's 50, 50, it's out of whack, Right?

[B]

Because of things like he just did.

[A]

So what I'm saying is that's not the norm. What he said, the way he supported you is not normal.

[B]

It's not normal.

[A]

That's extra. And the interesting thing to me that you just said is this is my business. That's his business. I thought of the expression mind your business. Really think about what that means. Mind your business, they're saying, don't worry about what I'm doing. Keep your mind on your own business. It's important for you. That's like, you know, that's the main thing. Keep the main thing. The main thing, what your business is. And if. Don't get distracted by other stuff. In this case, however, if LeBron is minding his business like this is not detached from his business. Right. There's overlap. So for him to take the position he's taking is actually extraordinary.

[B]

But it's just the. But it's also the environment we in. By the way, everyone's talking. I saw something the other day, and here's the other thing before this, I said I'm taking Michael to take the last shot over LeBron.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I also said I wanted a certain team if I was a. This same hypothetical thing. I said if I was a certain team, I would be calling this other team and trading for this young guy and trading my. My star now for this guy. That team didn't have no issues. You know what we did? We played golf together when they came in town.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You get what I'm saying?

[A]

I do. So, by the way, so you. So there. It was reported that you were approached by Reggie Berry.

[B]

Approaches.

[A]

AMR approaches.

[B]

The. Approaches. The weird.

[A]

This is Austin Reeves, agent.

[B]

Reg is my man. I've known him 20 years. So we had the conversation, and I expressed to him.

[A]

So how does he not approach you?

[B]

No, we just talked. He just asked me like, rich, what's up?

[A]

But when they say approach, it's like, he rolled up on you. Yo, so how'd it go? It's me behind the scenes.

[B]

That's a writer trying to give a visual. No, it's just like, man. Rich, can I talk to you for a second? Sure. What's up, Rich? Hey, man. You know, is everything good? Yeah, it's great. Did you watch the show? I'm not gonna lie. I didn't watch the show, bro. Okay, Reg, you're my man. And by the way, I've been in your shoes because, see, I do understand the fact that, you know, I was once a guy that only had four clients, and I'm scratching and clawing and everybody in the industry. I used to walk into meetings and people would be like, man, this person just came in before you told us, you can go with anybody. Just don't go with Rich. I dealt with that from every agent. Those that look like me, those that don't look like me, it's all fake. You get what I'm saying?

[A]

Of course.

[B]

I've been in situations where it's cutthroat.

[A]

They'Re out for themselves.

[B]

I've been in situations where I have a client and you got people going to their families and saying, you know, you're close to a contract, we'll cut the fee, and we'll do this. I've been in every situation. Right? But I don't fret, because for me.

[A]

Every day is the. So basically, what's he going to.

[B]

You saying no? No, he's just asking. Yeah, he's just asking. No, you have to separate church and state. In this case, I have a media hat on and I'm having a hypothetical conversation, which, if you're really looking at it, if I'm looking at it from an Asian perspective, great. Because there's one or two things could happen. Either the current team comes out and says, oh, we value this person too much. We'll never trade them. That puts you in a great position contractually. And if you do get traded or packaged, and by the way, you're gonna get a max extension, whatever package, it would be around. Probably a guy that I represent would be in one of those packages too. That may have to go out, you know.

[A]

You mean, oh, a Lakers player? Yeah, Vanderbilt.

[B]

He may have to make the money in that situation. From hypothetical. He may would have had to go out. So it's not all one side.

[A]

You're just saying. It's just you're doing fantasy basketball, but just you're doing it well.

[B]

But the problem is, here's what I attribute all this to. There's so much gibberish on TV that when you hear something that actually has substance to it is you don't really recognize it. And then when you hear it from the messenger, and the messenger, if you just put a silhouette and it wasn't me per se, it would be different. Because we've seen this already. We've seen different takes from different platforms. And it's like, well, it's just the messenger. And I understand that. But at the end of the day, in this situation, I'm in this. I'm in this field. I'm not going to. You moved here from New York. You think I'm about to waste your time?

[A]

I mean, just so people know, if LeBron has orchestrated this whole thing, it's news to me. It's possible Rich is lying to me the whole time. Put this whole thing together over the last two years. Two years of calls, meetings and different.

[B]

Iterations of this network meeting. Behind the scenes the whole time, pulling the street. We do that.

[A]

Yeah, but they kept it a secret from me, if that's the truth.

[B]

And along the way, I've talked to every last one of my clients saying, hey, man, this is what I'm gonna do. I wanna do this. No one's fretting. They know. I come in here at 7 o' clock in the morning, I'm in my office by 9:30. Don't miss a zoom, don't miss nothing. But what I will say to the audience is, it's just a different time. And by the way we're late to the party.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's a million podcasts. There's no game over. No, but there is a million podcasts. And like you said, my whole goal in this is to give a different look, to give insight, to educate. This puts me back to where I was at in 2012 when I first started Klutch. This is the stuff I got. You can't do this. And why is he doing that? And blah, blah. This is the same feeling I got. The only difference is this is my second job, my day job. I have to continue to do my day job and continue to be an executive, which I will do. But at the same time, this is something I enjoy. I start my mornings.

[A]

This is the reason I wanted to do this, because I was contemplating other things, too. You approached me about almost two years ago at this point.

[B]

Yeah, whatever. The same date, whatever it was, I pushed it.

[A]

Yeah. And I thought to myself, as a consumer, I would have to watch that. I'd have to be. If I wanted to know what was going on, or even just reading between the lines of what Rich Paul would be saying, making assumptions, whatever it is, and getting the straight dope, you know, I would have to watch that. I have to consider.

[B]

So in closing, look, Austin, I love you as a player, love you as a person. At the same time, it's complimentary to you, but this is my job. I have to do this job. So don't take it personal. And at the end of the day, I hope you get the max. I hope you get all the money.

[A]

You said that originally, by the way. Have you spoken to Austin directly?

[B]

No, no, no, no, no. But I have. I said that to start. I said that to start. But anyway, enough of that. Let's close the book on that. I'm excited for the. For the Cavs Sixers tonight. And I know Michael Price is here, and he's still licking his wounds from. So maybe, you know, he can cheer up a little bit. But the reason why I'm excited is because tonight I always like when the Cavs play the Sixers, because Darius Garland and Tyrese like that matchup. And also we have some other Sixers, too. But the thing I'm most excited for is I have a group chat with their moms.

[A]

With the moms?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, with Darius Garland.

[B]

Darius mom and Tyrese's mom.

[A]

You just happen to have a group chat?

[B]

We have a group chat together. So when they play, it's like you read the lines. It's like, why is he doing that to My baby. Why is he doing that to my baby? It's like. Oh, that's all.

[A]

Do they know basketball?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, they.

[A]

I mean, yeah, they've been around that.

[B]

Whose son started playing at two years old. And you go to all these AAU games? Yes, but it's just so funny and I hate that. The game just so far. I can't get out the office to make every game, but obviously I watch.

[A]

Those are two good young players.

[B]

Oh, man. Oh, man. Great. And even better people.

[A]

Since we're on the topic of all star caliber players. No LeBron in the all Star Game this year. What's going to happen?

[B]

Who said that?

[A]

I'm saying he's not a starter.

[B]

Oh, I think, yeah. I mean, the starting thing, it's all type of votes. Max, that font, man. That font.

[A]

You know what? I can't wait to happen to you.

[B]

No, no, no, look, hold up. Let's just show up. Look at my font, ladies and gentlemen. Max, can you show your font, please? Just show your font.

[A]

Just space.

[B]

Just show your font. Are you kid. Like.

[A]

Listen, I have, you know I have the detached retina in my left eye, right? I think I got it fixed, but it's never. It's like warped, right? That's permanent. That's my left eye when I hit. So you're how old now?

[B]

You sure it wasn't you that Tyson hit instead of. It might have been you up.

[A]

How old are you now?

[B]

I'm not revealing my age on.

[A]

But you're mid-40s somewhere.

[B]

You don't know if I'm mid-40s now. I might be mid-30s.

[A]

So what happens is. And I can't wait for this to happen to you. I'm sorry to. It's not.

[B]

It's not going to happen to me.

[A]

It's going to happen to you, right? When you hit like 48, 49, 50, all of a sudden it's like, let.

[B]

Me tell you something.

[A]

I gotta back.

[B]

See that when I go to the eye doctor. Cause I go for my executive physical every year. When I go, I'm on the bottom line. I can see the bottom line.

[A]

Yeah, well, that's. But that's nearsightedness. You're not nearsighted. What happens is you get farsighted. You can't see stuff up close. It has to be far away.

[B]

I can see up close too. What do you mean?

[A]

But I'm saying what's gonna happen is the little rods and cones in your eyes stiffen. And as you, as you hit around 50 and then you can't see up close anymore. That's why people have bifocals. But nowadays it's. It's. It's. What's it called? Progressive lenses.

[B]

Yeah, whatever you say.

[A]

Oh, you're going to come in here with readers one day. It's going to be the best day of my life.

[B]

Readers?

[A]

Yeah, readers.

[B]

No, I have. On some. I have.

[A]

I'll spice it up. Yeah, you get them.

[B]

Yeah, I'll spice it up. But as far as All Star starter, I mean, he didn't start the season, so I'm not. I think people make a big, big deal out of things, which is fine, but. No, maybe he's not an All Star starter, but not an All Star.

[A]

Rich, you better check your text to see what he wants you to say.

[B]

Here's what I will say. Here's what I will say. Because I saw a couple takes on this, right? And I think some people say, don't deserve to be an All Star and blah, blah, blah. I think the All Star starters in the west is probably Luka, Steph, Wemby, Jokic and Ant. That's who I have.

[A]

That's good. I'm trying to think of who else would even have a case. Well, sons, Booker, Book, couple other guys and a starter. No, but.

[B]

Well, no, no, no. I'm saying this is just starter. Yeah, this is just a starter. No, no, no, I'm sorry, I take that back. Luca, Shay, Shay.

[A]

That's who I'm missing.

[B]

Joker, Wemby, maybe. Not Wemby. Maybe Luca, Shay.

[A]

Usually thinking about Ant or Wemby.

[B]

Joker, Joker, Jokic.

[A]

Wemby's got to start.

[B]

Oh, man, he's.

[A]

What's happening right now. There's no way around it.

[B]

Well, in that case, last night, by the way. Yeah. Who's out between Steph and Anthony?

[A]

Chet's team won, but they were making a point on the broader.

[B]

That's gonna be a great. I hope we get that matchup somewhere in the playoffs. But I have six people that could possibly be starters. Luka, Steph, Jokic, Shay, Wemby, Ant.

[A]

I think Ant might be the odd man out there.

[B]

You think so? Okay, now in the East, I have another six. Giannis, Jalen, Brunson, Maxey, Cade Donovan and Jalen Brown.

[A]

Why is the west better than the east every single year? It's unbelievable. This has been going on for decades.

[B]

Well, you know, we got this whole format now, so those are how I think the starters, and then you have a couple more spots for people to make, and there's a lot of good players, whatever. But here's the case. In LeBron's case, I don't want a charity case for him. If his numbers are good enough to be an All Star reserve. If he's not a starter, I think the coaches vote, the fans vote. You know, if his numbers aren't good enough, then let him go on vacation and charge up for the second half of the season. But if his numbers is good enough, the All Star Game is in la. I think the All Star Game is. Is as many legacy guys as you can have at All Star Weekend. It's the biggest weekend for, for our league.

[A]

It's good if LeBron James is a All Star Game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I'm sure guys like Pete Rose or whoever, like I have to go back and look late in their careers, we're hitting.270 and still going to the All Star Game because of who they are, you know.

[B]

Yeah, but I think.

[A]

And he's still playing at a high level.

[B]

Yeah, but he's 31.

[A]

Ten and eight last.

[B]

Yeah, I think somebody said his idea of. So last year, something happened with Norman Powell and he took this spot and just. I'm like, what are these?

[A]

Oh, you mean because LeBron went but didn't. And so some of the spot was.

[B]

But here's my thing with that.

[A]

It's not a bad point, actually.

[B]

Yeah. But here's the thing. If you don't know that to be true and you just saying that for the sake of saying it, this is why we have our show. Because I know now that I do know. So that is again, a hypothetical. Not even hypothetical.

[A]

You know what? I set the alarm for an hour. That means we're on it. We've been going an hour. Right, Jesse?

[B]

Okay, we go into overtime.

[A]

Little less now we're in overtime. We're gonna get a clock in here.

[B]

Little less. But again, we're talking about certain things just being blabbered out and people really believe that. People really believe these type of things without having any faith. Facts, not even an inkling of fact. You don't know what, what, what actually happened. Now, I'm a Norm Norman Powell fan. He's represented by my man, Jason Glushan. I wish that Norman, because he deserves. Especially last year.

[A]

And I've mentioned this on the pod too. Look at the team he left. What happened to them?

[B]

No, Norm is a problem.

[A]

Look at the team he went to and what happened.

[B]

And he's still balling down the mountain.

[A]

Powell is one of the most underrated Athletes in sports. He is a winning player, but not just a winning player. His effect on a team, either having him or not having him is dramatic.

[B]

But what people don't understand is when you're in a situation where there's replacements and things like that that take place, a lot of times the league looks to replace somebody right there on the spot because guys go on vacation, you got a fly guy here or there, they try to make it as seamless as possible. So oftentimes it's not always as easy as you think it may be. So you're looking at something in a glass half full, which is not still messed up. He took his spot though, this guy.

[A]

Man, listen, I don't know, like, no, I. Look, LeBron. There are always trade offs in life. LeBron James, duh, should be in the all star game. It's LeBron James. He's the face of the league for two decades plus. He's in his 23rd season, as I keep mentioning, on the second of back to back on the road against a hot team. He just dropped 30, almost had a 30 point triple double in a win. So he's still playing at a high level. Of course LeBron James should be on the All Star team. But the trade off is there are guys like Norman Powell in the league who don't get to go. As a result, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[B]

I agree. And I think, I think not what he thinks. I think that if he could somehow help a first time All Star make the All Star team and have that experience, he would love to do that.

[A]

And if he goes to the All Star game, great. Either way, yes.

[B]

People act like, oh, he's doing this for himself. And just like you don't think, not to mention we had this week that people have off. You remember, it didn't used to be like that, right? There's a certain reason why it's like that. There was conversations had and there was things taken into consideration about the workload of the season, things like that. Now I'm of the of the vote that I think we should go back to less time. My players might not like this, but I just think that we gotta figure it out. Because the reason why All Star Weekend, when I was growing up and when I first started going to All Star Weekend was so great is because not only did you see the guys that was in the All Star Game during All Star Weekend, mostly every player for the most part was there. So there was parties, activities, there was.

[A]

All these things when I Was a kid. I loved the All Star Game. I remember the year. I remember it because it was the year Alexis Argueo. I was flipping back and forth. I was fighting Billy Costa at 140 pounds. Knocked him out, right? And I was flipping back and forth because it was Dr. J scored, you know, was probably his last All Star Game. Maybe it was 84 or something and he had 20 points. But like, I don't remember if they gave him the MVP of the game, but Isaiah Thomas was like, he put on a show. I used to love the All Star weekend, right? I do not care about the NBA All Star Game at all. It shouldn't be that way because the guys don't compete, compete, play a game. Well, there's an injury risk.

[B]

Wait a minute. Do you want them to play a game?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Or do you want them to go one on one? Take turns going one on one?

[A]

You could have one on ones within a game, right. I mean, but the point is, of course it's not going to be like a regular season game. But there should be like when you hear about the Dream Team originally, the, the practices they had, right? And you hear Charles Barkley or whoever it is talk about those were some of the most intense. There was more intense competition than I ever like than in a playoff game or whatever they were talking about, because it's MJ going at Magic and it's Barkley going at Malone or whatever it is. I'd like to see some of that in the All Star Game. It is not football. Yes, there's an injury risk, but it is not a football contact sport. There will be, I'm sure some superstar, if they played that way one day would have a career altering injury and people like me would be like, oh, whoops. But I would like to see it.

[B]

But it was always the first couple quarters. You kind of joke around and then.

[A]

You got turned serious.

[B]

I was in D.C. in 01 at the All Star Game when I think Marbury might have hit the game winning shot or game ceiling shot or whatever the case may be. It was the same way then.

[A]

But the fun of it is like, I remember AI and Vince Carter on an east squad and they were putting on zero. Yeah, it was like right around that.

[B]

But like D.C. was 01, Philly was 02.

[A]

I don't remember.

[B]

Atlanta was 03. Yeah, I remember because I was at all of them.

[A]

But like at least there and even then it was never really a hardcore competitive game. But there was a little bit more of a sense that, that we're competing against each other. And honestly I'd like to see the NBA All Star game more competitive than it ever was. But they did compete.

[B]

They did compete. I think I want to see the competition too. I do. I think, I think. And this is where I think players have to look at their partnership with the league and have a. This is where players have to understand our business a little bit more. And I think it's on us to help our guys understand. And I think, I also think we should have meetings about the business of the NBA and show our insights to the players and say, look, we talk about Bri, which is the basketball related income, these areas. When you talk about brands, when you talk about excitement, fan engagement, things like that. This is one of the golden nuggets of our entire season. Guys, we have to lean into this, right?

[A]

How do you do that? Is it like. So the mid season tournament was very good this year and they incentivized the players with cash, you know, like that. That was. And it was a great tournament.

[B]

But I don't think it always, I don't think it always has to be a cash.

[A]

I'm not saying it has to be cash, but how do you incentivize them other than talking them into it?

[B]

No, I think who actually compete. Listen, when you are an athlete, right. Most athletes spend a lot of time trying to show people they're more than what, just an athlete. Right. And I think we get a lot of. Today there's a lot of people that want to be a part of the announcement, but they don't really want to be a part of the investment. Right. And so the risk involved too. And I think that when you start helping these guys kind of understand the business a lot better while also letting them participate in the business a lot better. Because here's the thing, we still have these old rules like circumvention of the cap, Right. And when you think about the evaluations of teams and things like that, we just saw what was the coach from the Ravens. Coach from. No, I mean the owner of the Ravens. The owner of the Ravens, Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Came out and talked about Lamar and.

[B]

Yeah, well, they asked him, I don't want to mess up his name, but the owner of the Ravens, if you ask me, I think it's Bouchiotti. Yeah, Bushotti. Right. He was asked, will Lamar have any choice in the coach that's hired? And he paused for a second and he said, well, he'll have some say, but he won't have no power. What do you think? About that. What does that say to you? I know what it says to me, but I want to hear what it says to.

[A]

That's good. What he's saying is he's going to. You have to take seriously the point of view of a key member of your team. But you are the decider. You'll take it under advisement and then that's one of the pieces of information you'll use to make a decision.

[B]

So do you think that there's a difference between a franchise player and an all Star?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And what is that difference?

[A]

Franchise player. You can, you believe if he's really a franchise player and you're a good franchise, you believe you can build around that player and win championships.

[B]

And does the franchise player get some say and no power?

[A]

Yeah, a franchise player should, if you are have a real franchise player, he should. His opinion is abs or her opinion. And if this WNBA player should absolutely be taken under advisement and you should want. It should be one of the things you weigh when you make your decision.

[B]

Absolutely. And I also agree with that. But there's a fine line and for an athlete who actually gets to become a franchise player because you know you can feel a certain way with it not actually being that way. And you see a lot of guys just like this, my this and I know it's in the, in the, the, the, the, the action of the game, but that has to stay in that arena because as you can see, they're not participating in the increase in the evaluations. And one thing I wish they were allowed to do even more so is. Okay, that's fair. They didn't, they didn't put the money up and they didn't take the risk, whatever the case may be. But a lot of these teams that's owned by the people that they're owned by, they didn't buy these teams by making basketball decisions. These are very high level business executives. So in order for the players to be become better educated and for them to be better positioned way beyond their years of playing, I think they should be able to participate in the deal flow of those ownership groups and opportunities that come down the line.

[A]

Because how does that work if the player moves teams and stuff like that?

[B]

Well, this is like anything works. Like if my money is with a certain investment group, no matter if I work here or work there, it's a different dynamic.

[A]

It's interesting because whether or not that act could actually work, you have to think of a way to incentivize the players to play hard, even if it's like players like bragging rights and trophies and stuff. Even if you get a ring or there's something you could do.

[B]

All those things. The point I was trying to. I want to bring it back to the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is if you are starting to educate them in that capacity now, when it gets to the All Star Game and the. The compounding interest that the All Star Game, the cultural relevance and all those things that it has on our overall business, they would understand it more because they truly see themselves as partners.

[A]

I wonder if there's like a. Everyone likes the shoe deals and stuff. Is there like an article of clothing, a jersey, a sneaker, whatever. That would only go to the winning team of the All Star Game for that upcoming year. So you have your All Stars.

[B]

You can also give home court advantage to the. To the winning team. That hasn't worked well. That don't work.

[A]

But if you had some kind of sneaker or jersey or something that consumers could buy that they could participate in and you own and the league only makes it for the All Star winning team.

[B]

Well, the problem is they all wear different product.

[A]

Right. But this could be right. Yeah. I could see you get it. Yeah. Yeah. And how do you choose if anybody. That it violates someone.

[B]

If anybody can figure that part out is fanatics.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If anybody can figure it out, they'll figure it out.

[A]

Like something to make these guys compete against each other. No joke game. But baseball. They play in the All Star Game. They play hard in the All Star Game.

[B]

But. But again, football is a joke.

[A]

I could see you care less about the.

[B]

You're going back to why youth sports in America is broken. You want to incentivize people for every little thing. That's how we got here.

[A]

You mentioned the difference between a franchise player and an All Star.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I want to point something out. We were talking about Luka and Austin Reaves earlier. Here you go.

[B]

I'm done. I'm not talking about that anymore. That door is closed.

[A]

I said that door is closed. You get more for dealing Luka than Austin Reaves. And your comment was you could build around either one of them. Are you saying Austin Reaves could be a franchise player?

[B]

I'm no longer commenting. Enough is enough.

[A]

You said it right.

[B]

I said enough syllogy. And that door is closed. We're moving on. And we're on the clock.

[A]

We're in overtime.

[B]

Oh, we're in overtime.

[A]

We don't have to go to double ot, Triple ot.

[B]

No we don't have to go to Double ot. Anything else?

[A]

We need to hit, I think, on Friday. So our next pod.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We got to do our hate mail. We teased it on Monday. We got to get that together. And we'll read each other. We'll take from the comments.

[B]

Yeah, we definitely got to do hate.

[A]

Mail, you know, and. And we'll. And we'll. We'll read each other's hate mail.

[B]

I saw something. I saw something cool the other day with Roger Goodell. He sent. He sent the. A coach.

[A]

A coach.

[B]

What was his name? Lamont Jones. Lamont Jones. He's a youth mentor, and he's sending them to the Super Bowl. I think he has a flag football group that he mentors, and it's Rockford Park. And I immediately went to our good friend and my client, Fred Van Fleet, who is. I didn't know if it was because he's from Rockford, Illinois, so I didn't know if it was. I went right to Rockford or maybe it's some part of Rockford in Chicago. But anyway, I thought that was.

[A]

Can we have an update on Van Vliet, by the way? Cause I. On this pod, maybe I'm not calling Fred right now. I said, Fred, Van. If the. If the Rockets had Van Vliet, looks like he's out for the season. You said. Well, not necessarily. You called Van Vliet.

[B]

I'm not calling him again.

[A]

I'm not asking you to call him again. What's the update on this? I said originally it looks like he's not going to play. You made it sound like maybe he could play.

[B]

Here's what I know. Fred works harder than anybody. If there's a chance for him to come back, he's a guy that will come back. He's not milking an inch.

[A]

Does he work harder than LeBron and Austin Reaves and Luka Doncic?

[B]

Why does everything have to go back?

[A]

He didn't say as hard. He said harder.

[B]

Why does everything have to go back there? Rich Paul says we've moved on.

[A]

LeBron James and Luka Doncic and Austin don't work as hard as we've addressed.

[B]

And we moved on. But. But here's the thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If it comes up again where we have to have a. Have a hypothetical thing, maybe it's about another team, maybe it's about the same team, but again, we have to keep it real.

[A]

Okay, then you know what I want to talk about on Friday also. I know we're going to be heading into the NFL Playoffs and everything.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Round.

[B]

And I got a treat for Friday.

[A]

But I want to. When you rub your hands like that, um, what were we. Where is that?

[B]

Or should I say, I have a treat for Friday? Yes, I have a treat for Friday.

[A]

What's the treat for Friday? Oh, it's a surprise.

[B]

I'm not telling you. Cause I don't want you to.

[A]

I was just talking about. I was about to do the tease. Cause I know it's in here somewhere and we didn't get to it.

[B]

It's a fashion tip.

[A]

No, it's an actual. We were gonna do the. We're gonna do the hate mail.

[B]

The hate mail. Oh, the movies.

[A]

Well, we could compare 80s and 90s movies. We said we're gonna do the 90s box. We're not gonna have time to do both of those things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, it was. Who wins the chip first, the Lakers or the Knicks?

[B]

We did that last the other day. Monday we do that. That's how you got me in all this trouble. What do you think?

[A]

I don't think we did that.

[B]

Yes, it was. That was the question. That was the question.

[A]

I said, jesse, is that true?

[B]

That is a fact. That is a fact.

[A]

This drives my daughter crazy, by the way. She's like, dad, come on.

[B]

We just did this yesterday. He was texting me something about who wins a championship soon.

[A]

Oh, that was the one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not even about the championship. I was thinking about international players and American players and what kind of player wins championships. And it was tied to Anthony Edwards. We'll do that on Friday.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We'll do it on Friday. Yeah, it's time to go. We really. We actually did that topic. We did the whole Knicks topic.

[B]

Yes, we did.

[A]

That's what led to it.

[B]

That's what led to it. Because I said.

[A]

You forget sometimes what we talk about off air.

[B]

No, but that's how I got.

[A]

Makes it to the.

[B]

That's how I got there. I said, the Knicks are currently the way it stands, but because they have more in their pantry, they have more snacks.

[A]

But in this case, it's easier to confuse it because we'll be sitting in, like, a car together or somewhere, and I'm looking at you having the same conversation.

[B]

No, we did.

[A]

It was on the pot or not.

[B]

We did it right.

[A]

Obviously it was Jesse.

[B]

And you did it on purpose. We did it right here. And you did on purpose. That's what.

[A]

Game over. Max Kellerman, Rich Paul.

[B]

Please subscribe Friday. Friday is on only if you want.

[A]

To know what's happening.

[B]

Or if you want the real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you don't, because really, you should be canceling all your subscriptions to all the things that's been giving you fake news for all this time.

[A]

Well, no, because I could save money.

[B]

It actually. No, but you want to save money. You could be entertained on. On IG for free.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

Yeah. If you go and subscribe, subscribe strategically.

[A]

Well, I mean, look, everyone has Netflix, right?

[B]

That is true.

[A]

Everyone has Spotify, too. They already got us.

[B]

They already still want the subscribers.

[A]

Of course. What I'm saying is they don't need to unsubscribe from anything because we start.

[B]

Making the merch and we start doing this and that, the subscribers are going to be the ones to get it.

[A]

Yeah, but what I'm saying is, like, if you find something entertaining about business.

[B]

Max, I had to teach you everything. Every single thing about.

[A]

Well, your father was a businessman. He owned a small business.

[B]

Your father was a shrink.

[A]

Right, but that's so I get into the psychology of stuff, but running a business, not so much.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right. Anyway, the point is, if you're entertained by something, keep being entertained by it. If you want to know what's happening, subscribe to Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And we'll see you on Friday.

[B]

See you on Friday.

[A]

Must be 21 and over in present and select states for kids. Kansas, an affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino, or 18 and over in present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD Gambling Help in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.

[B]

Sam.