Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul
Episode: NBA Debates! Plus Christmas Games, and Gifts.
Date: December 24, 2025
Podcast Host: The Ringer
Episode Overview
In this spirited holiday episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul dive deep into the major NBA debates—especially the enduring rankings of all-time greats, the ever-contentious Kobe Bryant discourse, and projections for the United States men’s Olympic basketball team. The duo also breaks down the NBA vs. NFL Christmas Day games, explores the problem of tanking, and shares humorous, personal stories about holiday traditions, food, and gift-giving. Their banter is warm, competitive, and full of classic one-liners, providing listeners with both expert NBA insight and plenty of festive energy.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Pain and Utility of Sports Lists (01:00-08:13)
- Max raises the idea that “hierarchical thinking” fuels sports, especially when fans and analysts endlessly rank players and teams. He acknowledges Rich Paul’s distaste for lists but insists that such debates are a big part of sports culture.
- Rich Paul elaborates on his discomfort, noting the challenge in making lists because it feels disrespectful to players who didn’t make the top cut, given the different eras and team dynamics.
- Quote: “It’s hard for me because it’s like, how can I name these guys without feeling like I’m disrespecting someone?” (19:26)
- The pair agree that judging greatness is different from simply judging who has the most skill.
2. Holiday Traditions, Cooking, and Family (01:55-08:13)
- Fun sidetrack into food: Rich Paul discusses his late mother’s legendary holiday baking, and how each guest got their own cake or pie. The two reminisce over breakfasts and the art of being a parent who is basically a “short-order cook” or “short-order DoorDash.”
- Rich shares family traditions around the winter solstice and group games.
- Quote: “My girls are with me, they all want something different. I’m, you know… I’m a short order cook around my kids.” (03:36)
3. NBA Memorabilia Stories: Kobe, Jordan & Subway Series (08:13-14:16)
- Reflecting on the recent sale of a rare Kobe Bryant card, Rich shares his own collection stories: an authenticated Michael Jordan jersey signed at MJ’s camp, and a Kobe jersey from his last game in Cleveland, given and signed personally by Kobe.
- Quote (on Kobe’s gift): “He had it literally signed to me. And I had that hanging up. So that’s pretty cool.” (11:14)
- Max recounts childhood memories collecting cards and his prized Subway Series subway sign shared with his brother.
4. The Kobe Bryant Legacy Debate: Top 10 or Top 3? (14:16-33:44)
- Max sets up the most heated debate in sports: Where does Kobe fit in the all-time pantheon?
- Max: Advocates for nuance, shows how not having Kobe in a top ten isn’t ridiculous when you consider arguments for MJ, LeBron, big men like Russell, Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq, plus Magic, Bird, KD, and Duncan.
- Quote: “Kobe could be ranked as high as number two ever—or as low as like 11. That’s the range to me for Kobe.” (27:10)
- Rich Paul: Takes a hard line that not having Kobe in your top ten is “ridiculous.”
- Quote: “Saying Kobe Bryant is not in the top 10 is ridiculous.” (14:27)
- He values Kobe’s mentality and psychological edge, paralleling MJ, and points to Kobe’s complete skill set and adaptability across generations.
- The duo discuss the impossible nature of lists given context, era, and the evolution of the game.
- Rich ultimately places Kobe in his personal top three (29:53).
5. Building the 2026 US Men’s Olympic Basketball Team (35:37-45:47)
- With LeBron, Steph, and potentially KD aging out, who fills the roster?
- Rich approaches the roster via signature shoe brands, arguing that these players are most motivated to be on the global Olympic platform.
- Nike: Cade Cunningham, Devin Booker, Anthony Davis
- Brand Jordan: Jayson Tatum, Bam Adebayo
- Adidas: Anthony Edwards (Ant)
- New Balance: Tyrese Maxey, Cooper Flagg
- Further debates on whether Chet Holmgren, Tyrese Haliburton, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, and others slot in.
- Quote (on Olympic sacrifice): “The Olympic team humbles you in a lot of ways… There’s a lot of value to being there.” (49:48)
- Rich approaches the roster via signature shoe brands, arguing that these players are most motivated to be on the global Olympic platform.
- Emphasizes the importance of fit, shooting, and willingness to sacrifice individual glory for collective success.
- Max: “Talent is one thing, but you have to be willing to sacrifice, because the Olympic team humbles you.” (49:48)
6. State of the League: International Competition & Team-Building (50:38-53:01)
- Both recognize how worldwide basketball improves: the US can’t simply out-talent opponents anymore.
- Quote: “That’s where we are in terms of worldwide basketball. We might not have enough. Even if we take everyone we want to take on the team, we might not win.” (52:19)
- There’s acknowledgment that character and willingness to play a role are as crucial as talent.
7. NBA vs. NFL Christmas Games Showdown (61:16-64:15)
- Comparison between NFL and NBA Christmas Day slates.
- NFL: Cowboys at Commanders, Lions at Vikings, Broncos at Chiefs — none are must-watch, per Max and Rich.
- NBA: Cavs at Knicks, Spurs at Thunder, Mavs at Warriors, Rockets at Lakers, Timberwolves at Nuggets — much stronger lineup, with multiple “must-see” games.
- Quote, Max: “NBA’s eating the NFL’s lunch on Christmas.” (64:15)
- Rich: “That’s a good problem to have… Holidays, I eat Chinese food every Sunday.” (64:51)
8. Tanking & League Integrity (65:15-74:34)
- Max articulates how tanking is the inevitable consequence of incentives built into sports rules. He’s not sure how to solve it, especially with the added dynamic of legalized sports betting.
- Rich differentiates between the “Presti way” (developing and evaluating talent) and full-on process-style tanking, arguing that some forms of team rebuilding are healthier for the league.
- Quote: “There's a Sam Presti way… not focused on losing but on development.” (67:51)
- Potential new anti-tanking provisions (top 4 pick restriction, pick protection rules) get discussed, but both hosts are skeptical these tweaks will fully address the problem.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
“Saying Kobe Bryant is not in the top 10 is ridiculous.”
— Rich Paul (14:27) -
“Kobe could be ranked as high as number two ever—or as low as like 11. That’s the range to me for Kobe.”
— Max Kellerman (27:10) -
“My girls are with me, they all want something different. I’m, you know… I’m a short order cook around my kids.”
— Max Kellerman (03:36) -
“Talent is one thing, but you have to be willing to sacrifice, because the Olympic team humbles you.”
— Max Kellerman (49:48) -
“NBA’s eating the NFL’s lunch on Christmas.”
— Max Kellerman (64:15) -
“There's a Sam Presti way… not focused on losing but on development.”
— Rich Paul (67:51) -
“I like to do it one by shoe brands because… if you’re a star player with a signature shoe, you want that platform in the Olympics.”
— Rich Paul (41:00)
Detailed Segment Timestamps
- 00:29–01:00 | Opening, podcast banter
- 01:00–08:13 | Lists, sports hierarchies, and family/holiday traditions
- 08:13–14:16 | Kobe memorabilia, personal stories, and the perceived value of rare sports items
- 14:16–33:44 | Kobe in the top 10/top 3 debate—breaking down all-time NBA lists, era/context, and what greatness really means
- 35:37–45:47 | Projecting the 2026 Olympic basketball roster (by shoe brand and talent pool), importance of sacrifice
- 50:38–53:01 | International basketball catching up, team character>talent
- 61:16–64:15 | NFL vs. NBA Christmas Day game offerings/scheduling
- 65:15–74:34 | Tanking in the NBA, front office philosophy, new anti-tanking rules
- 74:35–end | Holiday plans, gift-giving, humorous riffs on Hanukkah vs. Christmas, family, and closing out with more friendly banter
Final Thoughts
This episode was equal parts sharp basketball analysis and holiday-centric fun. Max and Rich bring a high level of both expertise and personality, whether naming Olympic rosters, arguing Kobe’s place in history, or joking about the perils of holiday shopping and competing sports schedules. The “Game Over” crew proves that NBA debates never take a holiday—even if fans and players get a few gifts along the way.