NBA Expansion, Best Players in Basketball, and MLB Opening Day!

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Episode: NBA Expansion, Best Players in Basketball, and MLB Opening Day!
Date: March 25, 2026
Host: The Ringer

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Episode Overview

Max Kellerman and super-agent Rich Paul dive into the major storylines in sports and culture this week—from the NBA’s planned expansion (Vegas, Seattle) and an in-depth debate ranking basketball’s “best player alive” throughout the modern era, to MLB Opening Day and baseball’s cultural shifts. Along the way, they riff on rap beef and youth culture, team ownership, the evolution of MVP selections, and organizational excellence from the Spurs and Knicks to the Celtics and Heat. The show is animated, deeply knowledgeable, and peppered with personal stories and playful banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. MLB Opening Day and Baseball Fandom

Timestamps: 01:24–02:06; 57:36–66:12

• Max and Rich discuss their baseball fandom—Max passionately for the Yankees, Rich with Dodger sympathies as well.

• Max laments the Yankees' inability to outdo rivals like the Dodgers and Red Sox in the 21st century and critiques Yankees’ management passivity.

• They reminisce about an earlier era with more prominent African American representation in MLB and call for increased outreach to Black youth.

• Quote (Max, 58:33):
  “As a Yankees fan, 27 championships, by far the most in the history of American team sports, I insist that they win the World Series more than their arch rivals.”

• Notable: Max’s belief, on paper, the 2026 Yankees could match up with the Dodgers—if stars like Gerrit Cole get healthy.

• Quote (Richard, 65:14):
  “No, we need more Black kids playing baseball. That's the reason that's important beyond like any sociological thing, is it's a reflection of youth culture oftentimes.”

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2. Rap Beef & Social Media Culture

Timestamps: 02:11–11:15

• Sparked by Jay-Z’s recent GQ interview, Max and Rich reflect on how rap “beef”/conflict has changed:
  • Max grounds rap’s origins in competition, but agrees "there should be some unwritten rules" about personal attacks.
  • Rich sees social media intensifying and amplifying beefs—often with non-artists getting caught up in actual violence, shifting from “battle” to real street issues.
  • The morality and boundaries of public call-outs are compared to “Geneva Convention” rules for hip-hop (Max, 07:24):
    “Jay is actually arguing for a Geneva convention for hip hop. Like, there are rules in war… there should be some battle crimes.”
• The duo nostalgically references classic battles (Ether, Takeover), noting how the culture’s tone and stakes have changed.

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3. NBA Expansion: Vegas & Seattle

Timestamps: 12:27–18:18

• The NBA Board of Governors will vote on expansion teams in Las Vegas and Seattle; projected franchise price tag: $7–10 billion.
• Rich and Max both would choose to own Seattle—citing its basketball pedigree and untapped, eager fanbase.
• Vegas offers unique tourist-driven revenue, but poses stiffer entertainment competition.
• Insight into how Vegas’ gambling infrastructure and city evolution factor into potential NBA success.
• Quote (Rich, 15:00):
  “Seattle is just based upon all the guys that play the game there. It's a basketball city...that place is starving for a basketball team.”

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4. Who is the Best Player in Modern NBA History?

Timestamps: 18:23–41:07

• Max embarks on a sweeping debate: “Since the ABA-NBA merger, how many players have been the best in basketball—ever, even for a single year?”
  • Argues Jokic has claimed the ‘best player’ title for at least three years (“possibly four or five”) and is part of an ultra-exclusive tier alongside Bird, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron.
  • Methodically breaks down these rare “best player” years, including one-year wonders like Dirk, KG, Steph, and more multi-year dominators (Bird, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, Jokic).
  • Apologies to Duncan—citing Kobe’s era dominance until LeBron’s ascendance.
  • Lighthearted quibbling about other possible inclusions (Isaiah Thomas, Barkley) and the greatest NBA/NFL draft classes.
• Quote (Max, 27:31):
  “Jokic is on that list with Bird, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, and LeBron...most guys stop at three [years], but LeBron and MJ...there are at least seven years...the best player in the world.”

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5. MVP Race & The Future: Wemby Ascends?

Timestamps: 33:16–43:58

• Who should win MVP? Max believes Wemby (Victor Wembanyama) is not just a legit MVP candidate—he may be about to take over as the best player in the world, perhaps supplanting Jokic.
• Rich: “I would not. He would have my vote.” (34:36)
• Both discuss Wemby’s unprecedented two-way impact (“offensively, he’s close to the others; defensively, he dominates like Jokic does on offense”).
• The MVP tends to underweight defense because “it’s harder to quantify” and fans often chase “style points.”
• Argument for why long-term best player status comes from postseason dominance:
  “If you are always the best player on either team throughout the playoffs and you make a deep run, you’re the best player in the game.” (Max, 36:20)

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6. Spurs’ Organizational Mastery & Roster Building

Timestamps: 40:47–44:28

• Spurs are portrayed as a model of draft acumen (“drafted Castle at 4, should have been #1…picked up Wemby, Harper, Fox, Carter, kept Keldon Johnson, traded for De’Aaron Fox”).
• The transition from Popovich to an internal hire is praised—a testament to Spurs’ organizational culture.
• Quote (Rich, 44:22):
  “They didn’t go outside their culture to get the coach…So when you’re evaluating these things, all these things matter.”

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7. Knicks, Lakers, and Playoff Prospects

Timestamps: 45:22–49:48

• Max breaks down the Knicks’ recent surge (and compares OG Anunoby’s role to Draymond’s for the Warriors).
• Rich: “Do you think the Knicks can win a championship this year?”
  Max: “They’d have to get the right matchup and that might be the Spurs.”
• Special praise for Knicks’ role players, especially Mitchell Robinson (“x-factor”) and the “Brunson contract.”
• Both see “the others” (role players) as the key to championship runs.

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8. Perspective: Personal Reflections & Life Lessons

Timestamps: 49:52–56:14

• Rich shares a heartfelt story about a client’s reaction to injury and how perspective shapes resilience and success.
• “The most important thing you can have is perspective…having a better perspective helped me get through my most challenging moments as a kid.” (Rich, 52:18)
• Rich and Max discuss the value of entrepreneurial spirit, community influence, and seeing the big picture, drawing on family role models and street-smart business lessons.

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9. NBA’s 65-Game Rule & Shoedeal Implications

Timestamps: 70:29–74:13

• Debates on the fairness and unintended consequences of the “65-game rule” for awards and all-NBA teams.
• Rich breaks down shoe contract thresholds—reaching All-Star or games played triggers bonuses, but “not all that money’s real: a lot of that’s fluff, you have to hit the triggers.”
• “It’s hard to legislate stuff like load management…some of the best players just get hurt.” (Max, 73:43)

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10. Listener Mailbag

Timestamps: 74:18–78:36

• How did Rich land courtside Lakers tickets? (“Pretty straightforward. Called, asked, bought.”)
• What did Jerry Maguire get right/wrong about agents?
  Right: “This paranoia, going out on your own.”
  Wrong: “He was reactive…Agents aren’t all transactional—at least the good ones.”
• “Best draft classes ever” discussion: NBA—1984, 1996, 2003. NFL—1983 quarterback draft (“Marino, Elway, Jim Kelly”).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Rap is essentially competitive. That's how it started. DJs telling you why you should come to their spot... That DNA is never going away.”
  – Max Kellerman, (05:01)
• “I just have no interest in rap beef—I've seen where it leads, and it's never good for the community.”
  – Rich Paul, (08:02)
• “If you go to the Bronx, Yankees fans think they're supposed to win the World Series every year...I do insist, however, that they win the World Series more than anyone else.”
  – Max Kellerman (58:33)
• “Seattle is just ... a basketball city. That place is starving for a basketball team.”
  – Rich Paul, (15:00)
• “Jokic is on that list with Bird, MJ, Shaq, Kobe and LeBron.”
  – Max Kellerman, (27:31)
• “The MVP doesn't normally honor defense as much as it should. It's about style points, not always impact.”
  – Rich Paul, (36:40)
• “Some nights Luka looks like the best player. Sometimes it's Wemby, sometimes Joker...I'm just a fan of the game.”
  – Rich Paul, (39:10)
• “The most important thing you can have is perspective...it helps everything else.”
  – Rich Paul, (55:24)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Rap Beef & Social Media: 02:11–11:15
• NBA Expansion (Vegas, Seattle): 12:27–18:18
• Best NBA Players, Year-by-Year Debate: 18:23–41:07
• MVP Race & Wemby Discussion: 33:16–43:58
• Spurs' Organizational Success: 40:47–44:28
• Knicks’ Prospects & Playoffs: 45:22–49:48
• Perspective & Personal Growth: 49:52–56:14
• MLB Opening Day/State of Baseball: 57:36–68:13
• NBA’s 65-Game Rule: 70:29–74:13
• Mailbag (Agent Life, Draft Classes): 74:18–78:36

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Style & Tone

Lively and off-the-cuff, the hosts balance deep sports knowledge with humor, friendship, and a willingness to digress into pop culture and personal philosophy. Both challenge each other, riffing on the uncertainties and mythologies around sport, competition, and business. The entire show is shaped by a blend of nostalgia, expertise, and unfiltered banter.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

You’ll come away from this episode with a sharper view of:

• NBA’s looming expansion and what makes a city “basketball ready”
• How the mantle of “best player on Earth” shifts through NBA history and where Jokic, LeBron, and Wemby fit
• The evolving role of culture, competition, and social media in rap, sports, and life
• How perspective—not just talent or opportunity—shapes careers, both on and off the court
• How the economics of player contracts and league rules really work, from shoes to superstars

This episode is a can’t-miss for sports fans who love smart, layered discussion and big-picture thinking about the games and cultures they love.

Transcript

[Max Kellerman]

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[Richard Paul]

Max. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

First of all, look at, look at us, the Yankees Twins over here. Opening day, Opening day, Yankees fans. I got, you got the bear. You got the bear and the Yankees.

[Richard Paul]

Gotta go with the bear.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

I actually have that jacket in a different style, though. It's not a New York Yankees jacket, it's just a Ralph jacket.

[Max Kellerman]

But yeah, I know I always say I love baseball. I do, but I really love the Yankees. I don't, you know, like if, hey, how do you think, you know, the Twins or the Braves are going to do. I'm not that interested, but the Yankees, I'm interested.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, you have a lot of beefs with. We're in la, so you have to, you know, like Dodgers.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, you know what? I'm going to do a five minute max about that later actually. I'll get into the Yankees and Dodgers.

[Richard Paul]

Yes. Yankees, Dodgers, New York, Louisiana. But speaking of that, speaking of beefs.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

There was, you know, I saw Jay Z's comments yesterday, which I thought was a good interview with gq. The young man who was interviewing him actually did a really good job by the way.

[Max Kellerman]

You put me up on the, you alerted me to it and Excellent interview. Excellent.

[Richard Paul]

But he made a, he made a statement where he talked about Rap beefs and, and the idea that today's beefs actually go too far. And you and I talk about rap all the time. But I wanted to know your perspective on that. Cause I know you kind of look at it a lot different.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, first of all, Jay Z is right. Jay is right because it got. People get crazy talking. And his point was you're talking about each other's wives and kids and that goes too far. But you will never rap. The reason there's so much overlap with rap and sports, you know, is that rap is essentially competitive. That's how it started. Right. It's DJs just telling you why you should come to their spot instead of the. Why you should hire them instead of the other guy. That's. That's how rap was. That's just over breakbeats. DJs telling you why they were the best. That's never going to be not a part of rap. But he's right. I think it went, you know, there should be some unwritten rules about that.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, the way I, I think social media has changed everything. And I also think growing up that we had rap beefs, but they were from rappers. Today you having rap beefs for the most part from guys that aren't rappers, they're actually willing and wanting to do some of the things that they're. They're talking about. And we're seeing it play out in our neighborhoods from people that aren't even actually rappers and actually got on rapping, not making any money from rapping. But these songs that the kids are making are leading to.

[Max Kellerman]

You sound like the people in the 80s who wanted to put the parental explicit.

[Richard Paul]

But it's true. If you look at how Chicago's been, first of all, every urban community has been affected in a major way. Just go online. Just. Just go online.

[Max Kellerman]

Look, I would say he was talking

[Richard Paul]

about two different people. They were at the upper echelon. But I'm saying that's different. I'm talking about.

[Max Kellerman]

You're talking about the effect it has on the streets, basically. And I would look, yes, you could say that culture can move. Culture can move behavior in certain directions. And if you want to argue that that part of the culture doesn't help in terms of the direction that behavior is being moved. Okay. But there's a much. There's systemic issues related to poverty really that are the reason that behavior is there 100%. But I think it's.

[Richard Paul]

Or that thought there's systemic issues. That is the reason that not only the behavior is there but the thought process that leads to the behavior. Because I'm confused by like, the thought process. Like, what would make you think of that?

[Max Kellerman]

And what are you saying? That. That when the beefs get go overboard, it kind of justifies the thought process in a way. It glorifies the wrong side.

[Richard Paul]

I'm saying social media plays the role because it's. When I was in school as a kid, seventh, eighth grade, I went to Thomas Jefferson on the west side, West 41st and Clark. If you had an issue with somebody in a lot in the hallway, y' all had an issue, maybe two, three people saw it, you moved on. Now, if you have an issue with somebody. Yeah, it's posted.

[Max Kellerman]

It's. I don't know how kids are growing this. It's crazy. All your low lights. Can you imagine anyone, if you could see your low lights of your life? This goes for anyone. The best person in the world show a low light reel of their 10 worst moments. I don't mean something bad happened to them. I mean they look at their own behavior and go, damn, if you saw that for anyone, you would say, that's a horrible person.

[Richard Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Like anyone. So the problem with kids growing up today is some of those moments are captured and disseminated on social media, and it's out there forever. Like, I'm not even talking about this kid got knocked out in the hallway. I'm talking about the bully who did the wrong thing. That maybe later on he gets older and thinks, what did I know? I was an idiot. Right?

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But meantime, that moment, one of his lowlights is captured forever, let alone the humiliation of the kid who got knocked out.

[Richard Paul]

Right. Yes. And so that's where I go now as far as what he was refraining to or pertaining to. I never cared for it. I never cared to listen to it. I never cared for it.

[Max Kellerman]

For the battle stuff.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, Yeah. I never cared for it at all. I didn't think any of the accusations. First of all, it's a battle. So in battle, you. There's no.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. No rules.

[Richard Paul]

There's no rules. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

There are actually. But.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, but there. There is principle. There is moral that comes with it. But I just didn't care to even indulge in. I never cared to participate. I never cared to listen. I never cared to.

[Max Kellerman]

You know what? You. As you said that.

[Richard Paul]

Whatever, Rich.

[Max Kellerman]

What I realized is what Jay is actually arguing for is a Geneva convention for hip hop. Like, there are rules in war. There are war crimes. Right. And Jay is basically saying, without saying it, listen, There should be some battle crimes. Right. Like you're, if, if you, if you do, if you go to a certain place, you're like a battle criminal as opposed to, you know, so, so Ether and, and the Takeover in Ethereum is like. There's an irony to Jay talking about like putting an end to the battle stuff, but I think him and Nas walked up to the line but didn't cross it.

[Richard Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

Didn't take over and.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. And I think that as men, right, you were able to get in the room and say whether it was. We're at a different time in our lives now. And when you're younger, I know I've seen people have a quick, like just a quick, quick spark, a quick wick, a short wick about things, of course. And it's impulsive and it leads to doing, you know, the rest of your life behind bars. I've been a part of that. I don't, I don't really get into the. The beef thing because I, I deal with, I've dealt and understand where that leads and, and, and the lives is affected. It's not just the, the individuals, it's everyone else as well. And so when it spills over into rap, I'm really like, I just have no, no interest in it. I listen to the music, the real music.

[Max Kellerman]

I listened to the Takeover in Ether, though, that's for sure.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

No good battle.

[Richard Paul]

We didn't have social media.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. And, and people weren't taking it across the line.

[Richard Paul]

We didn't have social media. Even with Pac and Biggie.

[Max Kellerman]

What was this interview was in. You sent this in gq. Gq. Gq, yeah.

[Richard Paul]

And with Pac and Biggie, again, you didn't know them. I never felt like I had to choose sides. I liked both artists. I thought that the Biggie was rapped about more fly stuff that I was into. But I thought Pac had hit, you know, these key impactful moments that was. He had such a wide range where he can make. Hit him up and he can make Dear Mama like that range is so. I love the artist and I still listen to the artists today. So I just never got into it, never cared to get into it.

[Max Kellerman]

I just felt like big, like. Yeah. I mean, I'm from New York, but also Pac's style was really, if you listen to it, a throwback to like the early. Right. It's like, like early 80s. So I like Biggie's style so much better. You know, to me and to me, to rate rappers is kind of ridiculous because you. It's Your favorite. Not who you think is technically the best. Who cares?

[Richard Paul]

Well, but, but, but just like in our current game, today in basketball.

[Max Kellerman]

No, there are no style.

[Richard Paul]

No, I'm saying there are no styles. Everyone's playing the same style of basketball and today in music, so when you

[Max Kellerman]

switch it up, you're saying there are no styles to it. Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Paul]

I mean, you were able to differentiate. Differentiate the style. So. But yeah, I thought it was interesting, but I do think that, that there's a. There's a world where things go too far. And, and, and it's a good interview.

[Max Kellerman]

Check it out.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, it was a good interview.

[Max Kellerman]

We're doing an ad for Jay Z's interview in chic.

[Richard Paul]

You think battle and rap is good?

[Max Kellerman]

There's no way that that's taking something out of the DNA. Like, rap is rap. That's how it was born. It was literally born through. It's just in The South Bronx DJs telling you over a break beat, why they're so good, essentially. Hey, hey, hire me, not the other guy, because I'm better than the other guy. That's how it started.

[Richard Paul]

That's evolution. There should be rules in place. There's just unwritten rules.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, unwritten rules.

[Richard Paul]

Unwitting rules.

[Max Kellerman]

But you know how it is nowadays with the kids in social media. Never. And as soon as you have those rules, everyone's going to rush to see who's going to break them because that'll get some, you know, that'll get clicks.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, I just think. Yeah, okay. Yeah. You want to start the show?

[Max Kellerman]

Let's do it.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. [e-mail] yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over with Max Kellerman and Richard Paul. Spotify.com, we get to the emails every day.

[Richard Paul]

We are getting to the email.

[Max Kellerman]

We have not missed a day.

[Richard Paul]

Doing a great job.

[Max Kellerman]

We'll do emails today.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, we'll do them.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. This episode of Game over is presented to you by Loom. If your organization runs on endless email threads and status meetings, teams feel stuck unstuck them with Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian. Teams record their screen and share a link so others review on their own time. AI makes recording and editing one click and add summaries, action items and searchable transcripts so everyone gets clarity in minutes, not meetings. Replace unnecessary meetings. Speed up approvals and onboard faster. With Loom, you remove communication friction. It's a team changer. Try loom [e-mail].

[Richard Paul]

Well, Max, Yo. Got two new teams coming.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep, yep. Shams broke it of Course, he broke it. Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

You know Shams. See, you know, I'm gonna give Shams your cell phone number.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay?

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, just.

[Max Kellerman]

He doesn't have it. Maybe not.

[Richard Paul]

Well, you don't break news. I mean, you don't have anything to give him anymore.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Richard Paul]

But talk about a relentless. Talk about relentless. I'm glad he's like a. Just like an NBA reporter and he's not like something else. Because his work ethic is insane. It's insane. I mean, you have other guys like that, too. I mean, obviously there's a lot of guys, but he goes to a whole nother level.

[Max Kellerman]

There's a reason he's where he is right now.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, it is. But what do you think about it? What do you think about.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's get into this, right? NBA's board of governors is a approved vote for the league to explore bids and applicants for expansion teams exclusively in Vegas and Seattle. Sources tell espn. This is from Shams. A bidding process is expected to generate offers in the 7 to 10 billion range for each team.

[Richard Paul]

Of course. Yeah, I think.

[Max Kellerman]

And we've talked about.

[Richard Paul]

Which one would you rather own?

[Max Kellerman]

We've talked about this. Seattle.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, me, too.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. See, I mean, I'm not.

[Richard Paul]

Let me say this clearly, because, you know, I get.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Richard Paul]

But you know what? LeBron's dropped out, so that means I'm out, so they can stop running.

[Max Kellerman]

I know you're planning on buying the Vegas franchise, right? Wasn't that the report?

[Richard Paul]

I. Listen, a report. Unless it was going to be like 10 of my dollars and someone else's. 999 billion. No, that was not going to ever be the case.

[Max Kellerman]

Go put this. I got $40. Now we have 340 million. Go play this with the rest. Yeah, of course.

[Richard Paul]

One rib.

[Max Kellerman]

How much for one rib?

[Richard Paul]

But Eddie.

[Max Kellerman]

Eddie's saying during the divorce, what are you gonna do? Get a job at the boutique on the weekend? Johnny Carson's divorce. Here's $40. Go put this with the rest.

[Richard Paul]

I'm just saying.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I want in on this Vegas franchise. Here's my 40 bucks.

[Richard Paul]

I don't know where that stuff comes from, but. No, that was never the case. But what was reported. That was never the case. And it's still not the case. I don't. That's not my interest. But if you're asking me which would I rather own, I would say Seattle, because of all things, that's not Vegas. Right. There's no live entertainment there.

[Max Kellerman]

You could build less competition for the entertainment.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, but. But Also, in my opinion, Seattle is just based upon all the guys that play the game there. It's a basketball city.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. It's at the supersonics when it was there since the Sonics left.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. And I think that place is starving for a basketball team. Not to mention the capabilities of being able to build around the team, all the things that come with that. Live entertainment, residential, commercial. You know, it's going to sell out. You know, there's multiple corporations there, so suites are going to sell. You get a great sponsor from one of the tech companies up there. I'm sure I look at it from that perspective.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Richard Paul]

Vegas.

[Max Kellerman]

There's growth potential in Seattle.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. I mean, what are you going to do? You going to build? I mean, it's possible.

[Max Kellerman]

Now, the good thing, I think they'll both succeed.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Just depending on my choice.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. The good thing about Vegas, though, is every Thursday, we're really. Every day, but every Thursday to what, Monday, there's a new crop of people coming in. And so those people coming in from different cities, if it just so happened, they'll probably schedule it around when their team is in, travel during.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

So travel in. Catch a game, catch a play, do a little gambling. Hopefully they win, gamble responsibly. And you know that. So that. That is very attractive to the. To the Vegas franchise.

[Max Kellerman]

And Vegas is just. Even since COVID I know it's not the same and all that. It's still a hot spot.

[Richard Paul]

Still Vegas.

[Max Kellerman]

Vegas is still a hot spot, and

[Richard Paul]

it's an international hotspot. People coming in from all over the world. But the other thing I would say is, but then where do you go? Right. Because it's not like you can build a hot hotel. It's full of hot hotels. Right, Right. And one thing about Vegas, people become very loyal to their stay at places. Like, if you ask anybody, what type of Vegas guy are you? Where do you stay? I stay the Bellagio.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, one thing I'll say about that, Rich, is. Yes, that's true. For a while, they put up the. Back in the day, the hotel at Mandalay. Right. Or something like that. Everyone stays there. Then. Then the wind comes or something. Whatever. Whatever else. And they look at it, and all of a sudden, the one that they stayed at, which was hot five years ago, no one's there anymore. Everyone's at the Wind, you know, like that.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, but that. But that was also in. I'm not gonna say the teenage years of Vegas, but it's more grown up now. Yeah, I think so. I mean, there's been new hotels open up. The resort world. World opened up. The fountain Blue is insane. A beautiful hotel. It takes time to build that, though.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

On top of this generation not going to Vegas as much people not so things change without you seeing them change, per se. Like if you sit at a gambling table. They used to say this in the gambling house all the time. I could be sitting here, you sitting there. The table turned without you ever moving your seat. What I mean is, Max would be winning for an hour. Then this person's winning.

[Max Kellerman]

The other thing about Vegas is when. What really built Vegas. And this was in, like, casino. Right. What was done? They put. They. They took the bookie and put him in the casino. That's a sports book. But now the kind of reverse has happened, which is now there's online gambling and all this kind of stuff.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And. And it doesn't. You don't need to be in the casino in order to do that.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. So there's a. There's again, like you said, it'll do. Well, which one would I rather have? Seattle.

[Max Kellerman]

Seattle, right.

[Richard Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, same. All right, listen, I have something for you, Rich. Ready for this?

[Richard Paul]

I hope. It's a gift.

[Max Kellerman]

I got you.

[Richard Paul]

I got an orange box.

[Max Kellerman]

I got you my birthday box with

[Richard Paul]

a little green, like, three prong.

[Max Kellerman]

All right.

[Richard Paul]

Or is it like green with like.

[Max Kellerman]

It is. It's a gift of content. Ready for this For. For our subscribers. It's a gift of content. So Jokic last night.

[Richard Paul]

This isn't a gift.

[Max Kellerman]

Is doing his thing against. What was it, you know, 20 plus points and 15 plus 17 and 17.

[Richard Paul]

You mean he woke up Jokic after a good night's sleep, had a triple

[Max Kellerman]

double in the early third quarter. He has the game winner. I was hoping to come on today. I was thinking if Iguidaro is on the court and hits the game winner, I could come out today and say, I want Igu. Right. I thought it'd be funny, but it wasn't to be. But you know what I was thinking watching Jokic, the Nuggets and I'm. Let's get to Wemby. Let's table Wemby for a second, because I don't. My opinion is. Well, I'll tell you my opinion on Wemby.

[Richard Paul]

Wait, but before you switch.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Are you. What are you getting to? Is the Nuggets are contenders.

[Max Kellerman]

No healthy there can. You have to give them a puncher's chance.

[Richard Paul]

No, no, no. Puncher's chance. How you mean? They got the heavyweight Chance?

[Max Kellerman]

I don't know.

[Richard Paul]

They take a punches chance.

[Max Kellerman]

I think you got to play defense better than the Nuggets play defense right now.

[Richard Paul]

What do you mean they? Let's go through their roster.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Murray.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Jokic.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Richard Paul]

Gordon.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep. It's a lot already.

[Richard Paul]

Cam Johnson.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Richard Paul]

And who's their other starter on that team?

[Max Kellerman]

Point guard?

[Richard Paul]

No, it's Murray. Ron, Ben Gordon, Cam Johnson.

[Max Kellerman]

Who the hell are we missing?

[Richard Paul]

It's not Peyton. It's not Tim Hardaway. Those two guys come off. Braun. Is it Christian Braun?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I said it's okay.

[Richard Paul]

Christian Braun. So it's, it's.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, wait, you didn't include him?

[Richard Paul]

Okay, No, I didn't include him. It's Braun. It's Braun, Jokic, Murray Gordon and Cam Johnson.

[Max Kellerman]

Okam John. Oh, yeah, right.

[Richard Paul]

That's their starting five. But then they come off with Peyton Watson, who's 69 with a 719 wingspan.

[Max Kellerman]

They don't play defense.

[Richard Paul]

Yes, they do. That's not true. You haven't seen them hoe all year. Bruce Brown, Tim Hardaway. Okay. I don't know, man. And the other kid? Cam. They have the other kid, Cam Jones. I don't know. Here's what I would say. I would not count them out. Count them out?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Do not do that.

[Max Kellerman]

But there are sometimes teams where the right thing to do is bring them up in the conversation because they, they're. They have a chance and experience. But if I. But if we actually said who has a better shot to win, I think you would put them at best in third place.

[Richard Paul]

Right? This year.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, this year.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Richard Paul]

That's what I'm saying for this year.

[Max Kellerman]

But this is what, this is what I was thinking watching this team and watching Jokic, especially. Jokic has spent three years at minimum as the best player in basketball.

[Richard Paul]

What? Three years?

[Max Kellerman]

The previous three to this one, he was the best player in basketball. Maybe four. Even MB got an mvp. Joker was the best player in basketball. In retrospect. Okay, Shea got an mvp. I can't. You could argue embiid that you could argue. Argue Shea that year. But we're talking about four or five years where in retrospect, Jokic is the best player in basketball. At least three, though. And I was thinking in the history of the NBA, since the absorption of the ABA into the NBA, because that brought the three point shot into the NBA. So call it 7980. Right now we're in 20, 25, 26. So we're talking about 46 years of modern basketball. The way I would define it the modern era.

[Richard Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

How many players have ever been the best player in basketball, arguably even for one season? So I want to start with the guys who you could argue one year. He was the one year. I think you could argue KG was the best player in basketball for a season. I think Kobe was.

[Richard Paul]

What season was that? 2,000.

[Max Kellerman]

What was it when he. He was the defensive player of the year, is the MVP.

[Richard Paul]

He had to be the 04 year because they reached the Western Conference finals.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. KG, you could argue for a year. I think you lose the argument to Kobe. But KG was incredible, Dirk. I think the year they won the championship, in retrospect, 2011. Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

No chance.

[Max Kellerman]

Looking back. Looking back, Rich, when the chips were on the line.

[Richard Paul]

That's my man.

[Max Kellerman]

He was the best player on the floor, either team, throughout the entire league.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, but you said the best. Come on.

[Max Kellerman]

If you are the best player on either team throughout the whole postseason, to me, you're the best player in the world. Okay, but you could. I agree. You could argue. You could also argue.

[Richard Paul]

No, I'll let you get through it.

[Max Kellerman]

Kawhi.

[Richard Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And then I think the guy you have the best argument for, for at least a year is Steph.

[Richard Paul]

These are guys for just one year.

[Max Kellerman]

One year, Steph. Okay, 2022. He was the best player either team all postseason. They won the championship. That's the best player in the world.

[Richard Paul]

What year he got the unanimous MVP.

[Max Kellerman]

LeBron was easily the best player in the world that year. Easily. Not close. Like, in retrospect, LeBron was worth, like, two steps that year. He was so much better than everyone on the planet. LeBron, in 2016, when it mattered most, LeBron, in every series, was easily the best player on the floor through the whole.

[Richard Paul]

I didn't know if you were counting him because obviously.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Okay, here's arguably the best player for multiple years. Okay, I'll do it in chronological order.

[Richard Paul]

Multiple years, as in two years.

[Max Kellerman]

At least two years.

[Richard Paul]

Let's say two years and more.

[Max Kellerman]

Two years. But I'm not saying three. I'm saying two.

[Richard Paul]

I'm just saying just two.

[Max Kellerman]

Maybe you want to argue three. You can. I'm saying two.

[Richard Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Moses Malone.

[Richard Paul]

Now, wait a minute.

[Max Kellerman]

Moses Malone.

[Richard Paul]

No, no, no. I like. No, no. I'm just saying I was born 1990.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. All right. Okay. But I'm just telling you, living through the era before Byrd took over, okay. Uncle Moore was declining a little. Moses had two years. I love.

[Richard Paul]

Listen, I love Uncle Mo, so Magic, he's my guy.

[Max Kellerman]

Magic Got two. And a lot of people argue many more. I would say Magic, along with kd has the most second place finishes and also has two at least first place

[Richard Paul]

finishes of all time.

[Max Kellerman]

Of all time. Right.

[Richard Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Along with what year was Magic?

[Richard Paul]

What year you have magic? 87.

[Max Kellerman]

Mad. No, by then it was MJ. I would say.

[Richard Paul]

I would say in 87 it was MJ in 86.

[Max Kellerman]

87, Michael Jordan was the best player who ever lived when he averaged 37 points a game and then 35.

[Richard Paul]

And so you said magic was what, 84.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. There was like one year maybe, or maybe two. You could argue magic 86. 87. I think you lose the argument against MJ. You could argue Bird. One of those years with Bird, but Magic. The point is, if it's not you, but it's the other guy, but the other guy keeps changing. Bird, mj, this was you, but it's you all the time. Then. Then you could argue.

[Richard Paul]

Okay, go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

Duncan and KD.

[Richard Paul]

Multiple years.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. 20, 18.

[Richard Paul]

Hold up, you missing the name. Yeah. What about. Where's Dwayne Wade for at least one year?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you could. Okay, here's the guys. I'll say apologies to them because you could argue it, but I don't think the argument is as strong. Would be Dr. J. Allen Iverson, Dwyane

[Richard Paul]

Wade, Harden, Paul Pierce.

[Max Kellerman]

Never. James Harden. Never Paul Pierce. Best player in the world. No, no.

[Richard Paul]

Okay, okay. I'm just throwing it out there, but

[Max Kellerman]

I wouldn't make those, you know. Okay, now let's get to the guys who, since the advent of the three point shot, were the best player in the game for three years or more. You could say Kareem. However, the more I think about it, the more I think Kareem's in the two slot, is in the two big. Best player. Two years of best player because Moses was coming up as he was coming down.

[Richard Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

But it's a little unfair to Kareem

[Richard Paul]

because it sounds like a Bible scripture.

[Max Kellerman]

Why? Yeah, yeah, Moses, Moses. That's true. Kareem was coming down. They both somehow sound biblical, But I'm

[Richard Paul]

getting ready to pass the plate.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, Moses rose, but Kareem was the best player right before, like he straddled the two eras, the pre modern and then modern era. But strictly speaking, I'd have to take Kareem out because he was already declining a little bit after 79, 80.

[Richard Paul]

Definitely going viral.

[Max Kellerman]

I would say five dudes. Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. One, two, three, four, four. Hold on.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, get it right, get it right.

[Max Kellerman]

Max okay, I'm going to. I'm going to have one more layer. Definitely the best player for at least two years in the league. Definitely. Kareem Bird, MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, and Jokic. Because Hakeem, when Jordan went away, was the best player in the league for two years.

[Richard Paul]

I was going to say, why are you naming Michael Jordan? Of course they were right.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm saying definitely two years now.

[Richard Paul]

That has to be three years now.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's get to the now.

[Richard Paul]

Let's get to three years. Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Best for at least three seasons.

[Richard Paul]

This is actually pretty fun.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Best for at least three seasons. Bird who? People in retrospect make it, was it Bird or Magic, but trust me, I lived through this. There were some arguments. Bird won three consecutive MVPs. The difference between them was Bird was a better defender and Bird was a better scorer. Like, he was a better shooter. Now, Magic was incredible, and his shot got better and better. But the consensus back then, it wasn't that debated. Magic kept getting better, and he had that incredible rookie postseason. But the consensus was Bird at least three years post. Moses Malone decline, you know, when he took over, really, From Moses, Bird, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, Jokic. Jokic is on the list with Bird, MJ, Shaq, kobe, and LeBron. Jokic is on that list. You know who I don't have on the list on that list? I don't have Hakeem. I don't have Duncan, I don't have Magic, I don't have Moses Malone, I don't have KG, Dirk, Kawhi, Steph, KD, Jokic is on a list with Bird, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, and LeBron. And by the way, I know a lot of Duncan fans like Bill Simmons and other people. No, Duncan was better than Kobe. Stop, everybody. We know what we saw. Like, you know, Duncan was great. He had two years, maybe, where you could argue him over Kobe or him over Shaq. Kobe took over as Shaq declined and pretty much owned that until LeBron took it over.

[Richard Paul]

I think you missed a few guys for one year.

[Max Kellerman]

Go ahead.

[Richard Paul]

Isaiah Thomas. One year at least.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't think, really? What? I don't think Isaiah ever got past Magic. In terms of who I really thought was better. Magic was a foot taller. I love Isaiah better.

[Richard Paul]

I'm not knocking Magic. Magic's my man, too.

[Max Kellerman]

But no one argued Thomas. No one argued he was number one in the league. Like, he was the best player in basketball. I agree. You could put him on the arguable list.

[Richard Paul]

What about. What about Barkley?

[Max Kellerman]

No, Even Barkley would tell you I was never the best player in basketball.

[Richard Paul]

Well, he had the best shoe, so. Yeah, that's all I care about.

[Max Kellerman]

94.

[Richard Paul]

At that moment in time.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Oh, maybe 93. The ones that the Fab Five wore.

[Max Kellerman]

I wore Barkley's when Snoop was on the show.

[Richard Paul]

You did, but that was 90. Yeah, but the Barkleys that. The, the. The. I mean, I remember these came out. They were in the finals. Black with the gray came out in June. Yeah, but a couple months before. Maybe it's a. Maybe they came out in May, but a couple months before that. I think the.

[Max Kellerman]

I got a final list.

[Richard Paul]

The Michigan team. I don't know if it's a Fab Five, but the Michigan team wore them.

[Max Kellerman]

I saved this one. Best player for more than three seasons in the world is only two names. And they were doing it both for, let me guess, seven or eight seasons,

[Richard Paul]

plus Michael and LeBron.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. That's why. That's why the argument comes down to that. Apologies to Kobe fans, but when you're talking about 7, 8, 10 years where you are the best player in the world, it's not like. Like everyone else kind of stops at three. Kobe, you could argue, actually went up to four or five. But LeBron and MJ, the. There are at least seven years. And in MJ's case, I think there are clearly 10. But LeBron, you could argue seven to 10 where that's the best player in the world. That's a lot of years. And especially when there's a big fall off from them to the next guy. But Jokic is on the list,

[Richard Paul]

you know, Max. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Yeah, a lot of fun. I hope that's your five minute max.

[Max Kellerman]

No, it's not.

[Richard Paul]

What, you have another.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah, there's more, but let's talk Wemby.

[Richard Paul]

Okay, but that was fun.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Listen, I don't know if you're right or wrong. I think you'll go viral.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, well.

[Richard Paul]

But it was fun. It was fun to ride.

[Max Kellerman]

The point is not to go. I mean, if it goes viral, I guess that's good. That can be.

[Richard Paul]

No, I'm just saying it was fun to be in the car.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Bumping that type of music. It was great. It was a good listening.

[Max Kellerman]

This episode is brought to you by Loom. When your calendar's all status meetings and your teams are still misaligned, it's easy to feel stuck. Get your org unstuck with Loom. The AI first video platform by Atlassian Record a Loom to share priorities, feedback and key decisions. AI makes video editing one click and adds instant summaries so everyone from direct reports to partner teams gets clarity in minutes, not meetings with loom. Teams stay aligned and focus on work that matters. It's a team changer. Try loom [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Loom. When your calendar is all status meetings and your teams are still misaligned, it's easy to feel stuck. Get your Org unstuck with Loom. The AI first video platform by Atlassian Record a Loom to share priorities, feedback and key decisions. AI makes video editing one click and adds instant summaries so everyone from direct reports to partner teams gets clarity in minutes, not meetings with loom. Teams stay aligned and focus on work that matters. It's a team changer. Try loom [e-mail] so that brings us to Wemby, who's now making the case for himself, not just on the court. No, he said it articulating why he should be mvp. Rich, I've been saying this as I just praised Jokic to the skies. He's on a list with five other names in modern basketball. Best player in the league in the world for like at least three years. I think Wemby got it for the

[Richard Paul]

reasons he's saying they articulate with his.

[Max Kellerman]

They matched up his. Let's wait for the end of the playoffs. I agree. We don't have all the evidence in for this year yet. And the most important evidence is coming up.

[Richard Paul]

Well, the MVP doesn't go into the playoffs.

[Max Kellerman]

I know, I'm saying. But the real mvp. The real, like, let's see.

[Richard Paul]

Well, there's no real MVP trophy. There's an MVP trophy, Max. We're not going to make up your own.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, you're right. Let me be specific. Wemby is talking about the MVP regular season trophy. Yes, I'm talking about best player in the world. You're right. That's a good distinction. His MVP case is very solid. His team has dominated all the other best teams. And not only is he offensively just about where these other guys are. Like, Jokic controls the game offensively more. But Wemby's a great offensive player. Wemby controls the game defensively the way Jokic controls it offensively.

[Richard Paul]

Did you hear his argument, what he said? Yeah, he said the defensive side of the ball is 50% of the game. The man went to camp this summer. He's not getting on that podium, just blurting things out. He is. He studied it. He's serious about what he's saying. He's right. And he's right.

[Max Kellerman]

He's right.

[Richard Paul]

He's right. He's not wrong. He's right. Now we have a few games left. We'll see. He's definitely making a case.

[Max Kellerman]

And I don't see how you get around the regular season for him.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, I would not. He would have my vote.

[Max Kellerman]

Shay, they'll look, Shay is a really good defensive player. Like, he plays defense and he's a great offensive machine for his team. And he's clutch at the end of game. So he has a case.

[Richard Paul]

He has to be there, too. There could be co MVP between Shai and Wemby. Yeah, there could be. Because you can't say. There's nobody you can say is undeserving.

[Max Kellerman]

I would say, look, put it this

[Richard Paul]

way, but there are guys higher.

[Max Kellerman]

Do I want Shay or Wemby? Wemby. I don't have to think hard about that. It's not like I'm thinking, oh, do I want Shea right now? I'm trying to win a game today. Give me Wemby. You could have anyone else you want. I'll start with Wemby.

[Richard Paul]

This season, there has been weeks, six week intervals where you felt like this guy was the mvp. It was Jaylen Brown, it was Shay, it was Joker. It's Wimby, it's Luke.

[Max Kellerman]

Kawhi. Kawhi had a nice little stretch.

[Richard Paul]

Yes. For six. They all owned about six to eight weeks.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a good way of thinking.

[Richard Paul]

Whatever you want to say.

[Max Kellerman]

Or at least four weeks. In the public conversation.

[Richard Paul]

In the public conversation. But if you say, okay, we're giving it to Wimby, I wouldn't have an argument. If you say, they're giving it to Shay, I wouldn't have an argument.

[Max Kellerman]

What about the best player in the game argument? Which, again, we don't know until the story of the playoffs. Let's find out. But to me, the ultimate test of who the best player in the game is, is, as you say, the regular season. It's figuring out how to play in the playoffs. If you are the best player on either team in every series, by the end of the playoffs, whether you win or lose the championship, because many years that was LeBron, his team lost. They were outgunned. But if you are always the best player on either team throughout the playoffs and you make a deep run, you're the best player in the game.

[Richard Paul]

That's what that Means why do you think MVP does not normally honor defense as much as it probably should?

[Max Kellerman]

It's harder to quantify. What's easier?

[Richard Paul]

I think it's style, too.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Richard Paul]

People like watching people give a lot of style points to. They equate MVP with style points. They don't equate MVP with impact and value all the time.

[Max Kellerman]

And also there's something about like a super athletic guy or a pure shooter. And if that guy's the same guy, that just feels like when you see a super athletic guy who can get to the rim, you're like, man, he's just a better athlete than everyone else. When you see a pure shooter, you see that pure offense, you're like, man, that's unstoppable.

[Richard Paul]

How about when you go into the rim and you see 17 hands and it's really only one. It's Wimby.

[Max Kellerman]

And by the way, he's not in front of you, he's 10ft behind you blocking the shot.

[Richard Paul]

He's like a windshield wiper. He's just, he's.

[Max Kellerman]

That's what I'm saying.

[Richard Paul]

I mean, I.

[Max Kellerman]

We don't know till the end of these playoffs, Rich. So I'm not saying this is for sure. I suspect Jokic's run as the best player in the game is over. I suspect it's Wemby's time. We will find out in a matter of weeks.

[Richard Paul]

You say that after this. This man just had 23 points. 17 and 17, but he only had 16 shot attempts.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Jokic controls the game. Jokic controls the offense in a way I've never seen. I would say like the guys who come to mind are Magic and Bird, but Magic was not a great shooter and Bird wasn't the point guard and Jokic is the point center who runs the whole offense, can shoot, can post up, and his passing is Magic, Bird level. I mean, LeBron also. I was going to check your teacher those. Yeah, maybe LeBron is the only guy who controlled the whole offense more than jokic. But it's Yic or LeBron or Bird or Magic. In terms of like, Jokic is on these short ass lists.

[Richard Paul]

He is. No, I mean, what do you want me to say? The guy's a monster, but he's.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you suspect Wemby's about to take that spot? I suspect. I suspect we're going to look back at this year and say that was the year that Jokic's reign as the best player in the world came to an end. And then it became wemby's time. That's. That's what I suspect. What do you suspect?

[Richard Paul]

I suspect that we're going to be talking about Wemby for a long time. I do suspect that I'm not getting

[Max Kellerman]

into stays healthy knockwood.

[Richard Paul]

Who you going to? The best player, et cetera. Because it just takes certain things to click right. Because some nights Luka looked like the best player. You know, you have Joker, you have Wimby, you have Shay, you have. I mean, you know, it's funny you bring up Luka.

[Max Kellerman]

Luka is another guy who a couple years ago and maybe now again I thought has a chance to be on that list with LeBron and Jokic and Bird and Magic, where especially on that playoff run where he blew out Kawhi in them, where it was like, yeah, Kawhi is this great wing player, but the way Luka controls the whole offense is different. But it was him and Jokic. And Jokic continued ascending and Luka kind of went laterally.

[Richard Paul]

Look, there's a stint that Kawhi looked like the best player. Jaylen Brown had his moment looking like the best player. So I'm just a fan of the game in that respect. In that respect and in retrospect of the talent holistically. But yeah, you're not wrong. Look, it looks as if Wimy's going to be a three, four time mvp, but I will tell you this.

[Max Kellerman]

He probably looks to me like Wemby's going to join MJ and LeBron on that list of best player in the world for like six, seven, eight years.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, he probably rather have three, four championships than three, four MVPs. Yeah, I would, I would think. But how he affects the game on both ends of the floor. And, and the scary part about all these guys we're talking about, especially like the Wimbys and the Lucas, etc. They still have more room to grow in their development. They're not finished products by no stretch of the imagination.

[Max Kellerman]

That is. That looks like the scariest part or the scary part. Let me tell you what I think the scariest part is. The team Wemby's on.

[Richard Paul]

No, well, we haven't gotten to that. Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Castle is just. You're just seeing the tip of the iceberg and it's already like, damn, this guy. I mean, yeah, Harper, Fox, they got a.

[Richard Paul]

And they can hold it together. Kelvin Johnson is going to be up for six man of the year. They quietly.

[Max Kellerman]

It's unbelievable.

[Richard Paul]

And if. And people don't watch enough San Antonio. But every night Someone different could be the leading scorer. They all guard. They're guard.

[Max Kellerman]

It feels to me like they are what people have been saying. The Thunder, the Thunder just won the chip. They're going to be better. It's a reign of terror. But to me it might like. I think that's what the spurs are. I think that's. They're ahead of schedule and they're already. But how do you.

[Richard Paul]

How do you get there? See, I think about these type of things. Got the draft coming up, we got March Madness, we talked about this on Monday, who should go number one, et cetera, Acuff. But when you think about this, how do you get there?

[Max Kellerman]

You're saying deep front office is what you're going to tell me.

[Richard Paul]

Of course, hitting in the draft. Think about it. They drafted Castle at 4. He should have been number one.

[Max Kellerman]

And idiots like me trade him for Giannis.

[Richard Paul]

Okay, obviously they drafted Wemby.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep. Harper. Harper traded for Fox.

[Richard Paul]

No, you're missing a kid. The kid Carter that they drafted is going to be really good.

[Max Kellerman]

And then they're six man. No, you already mentioned.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, Keldon Johnson. Yeah, but then you go and you trade for de'. Aaron. Right. With the understanding that, hey, you're coming in here. Wimby's our best player. But still, in all, De' A is a max player.

[Max Kellerman]

It's not just that. De'. Aaron. And look de', Aaron, when you look at his career, even in college, when Lonzo Ball was the guy and they hooked up in the tournament, not only did de' Aaron hold him to like single digit scoring on or whatever, it was very low score total on the defensive end. But then De' Aaron went for almost 40.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, 38, I think.

[Max Kellerman]

And the crazy. I thought it was 39, but maybe 30. Whatever. Hey, listen, you rep him, you can't take a point away.

[Richard Paul]

I rep both, so be careful.

[Max Kellerman]

That's true. So. But the, the point is that what the spurs didn't have, beyond just an excellent point guard and all that was a closer. Because the young guys they had coming in, you got to give them time to grow. And they're growing, they're ahead of schedule. But you still gotta give them time and a big. Even a guy with handles like Wemby still needs a guy to get him the ball. So you bring in a guy who does everything you need in Fox. He's a clutch. He's Mr. Clutch. He's a closer. He's the guy who could set Wemby and the other guys up. He's a Guy who could lead by example in the locker room. The veteran who's still in his prime, still on the right side of 30. And, and, but, and, but, and you know, like it was the perfect guy to bring into that.

[Richard Paul]

You have Harrison Barnes sitting there, who's been to multiple finals, things like that. And another thing that's so underrated, they didn't go outside of their culture to get the coach. When the unfortunate, you know, health situation happened with pop, they just went in the closet and grabbed a new pair, younger pair of shoes because the organization. So this is what I'm saying.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you're right.

[Richard Paul]

So when you're evaluating these things, all these things matter.

[Max Kellerman]

Spurs, Celtics, Heat, what are the, I mean, those are the model organizations.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, I mean look, you got, there's a lot more than not. Let me, let me say that. And there's some young teams coming up. You're seeing what's happening in Charlotte, you're seeing what's happening in Atlanta. Yeah, yeah, you're seeing it. And so obviously okc, you're seeing it. So I think, I do believe that organizations, warriors is a first class organization. I do believe that organizations today are starting to really turn this thing around and really start to invest more because that's, that's what you're looking at. I think most teams are doing that.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich. I lived in D.C. but I didn't really live there in an apartment there for 15 months. D.C. is another 2000s. I lived there because I was hosting around the horn, money is. But I still was in New York half the time. The only two cities I've really, I've, you know, born and bred in New York, lived almost my whole life there. The only other city I've ever really lived in is here in L. A.

[Richard Paul]

Right. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

So I, I pay very close attention to the Knicks and the Lakers. Okay.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I was mad at the Lakers the other day because you're playing Detroit with no cade, you can't get that win.

[Richard Paul]

That was a tough one, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Listen, the Knicks are percentage point behind the Celtics now for second best record and Detroit. So Detroit could have had the loss, the Knicks could. And because of that loss, they get brought down half a game. The Knicks are cruising along. They're, they're this close to the Celtics. It'd be that much closer to Detroit. And LA couldn't beat the six without.

[Richard Paul]

See, but see, this is wrong because let me tell you why. You win at home, then you go on the road to two, two, two games in Houston. On the road. Right. A Home and home for Houston. You win both of those games, then you go to Miami, you win that game, then you go to Orlando and you win that game on a buzzer beater.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Richard Paul]

And then you're going into Detroit.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. No, kid, it does not matter. I know you're right about this game.

[Richard Paul]

It does not matter. You are a hater.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. No, no, I'm not a hater.

[Richard Paul]

I'm not a hater.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm rooting for the Knicks to overtake the Celtics.

[Caller/Guest]

Okay, but.

[Richard Paul]

Okay, so you talk about the Knicks, right? The Knicks are on a seven game win streak. How do you feel about it?

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, that's what. Well, that's what the preamble was about. I feel pretty good about the Knicks right now for this reason. Brunson took over the game last night. Until then, Cat was scoring. OG was scoring to me, OG Anunoby. Like when I look at the team to make, it's not going to be a perfect analogy. Nothing is. But Brunson is the step of the team, of that team in terms of how they're constructed. Cat is really more like Clay. But the guy who I always thought was because he'll get the most press outside of Brunson, he's considered the best player team outside of Brunson. It's probably true. But the guy to me that makes it work when they're firing on all cylinders is OG the way Dre made the, the warriors work, I thought respects to Clay. He's a Hall of Famer, maybe the second greatest shooter who ever lived behind Steph. But I always felt like it was Steph and Draymond, his pick and roll partner. The guy who does all the dirty work. The five who could do the death lineup where you could play five out possessions. Yeah, all that stuff. And I feel like OG is that

[Richard Paul]

guy on the Knicks energy defense.

[Max Kellerman]

His defense on Zion. Zion's still efficient, but you can't play better defense like OG plays. If you got OG to put on Zion, that's the best you're going to do, right? Like you got a guy like that. You take LeBron, he can do everything. He's so versatile. And then so I wanted to give OG his props. I think he's in a way the most important guy outside of Brunson.

[Richard Paul]

So do you think the Knicks can win a championship this year?

[Max Kellerman]

They would have to get the right matchup and that might be the Spurs. So the answer might be yes. And they'd have to navigate through the East. The other guy I wanted to shout out, though, Rich. Mitch Robinson is.

[Richard Paul]

He's next factor on that team.

[Max Kellerman]

He is so valuable. Like, you watch him during the regular season, man, he's good. You like him. And then he's the. He's a. Even though he can't shoot a free throw, he's the. A playoff. Clutch playoff player.

[Richard Paul]

Well, he's getting extra possessions. He's going to affect every shot attempt, especially in the paint. You know, he's there and he's the type of guy that's just. He's just going to do whatever it takes in that. In that moment. And you need those guys winning championships. It's going to always be about the

[Max Kellerman]

others, the role players.

[Richard Paul]

It's going to always be about the others. And that's why you have to really invest in the others. Especially when you top heavy. From a talent perspective, it's going to be about the others.

[Max Kellerman]

That Brunson contract helps them. They got Brunson for a song. That helps them well.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. So you feel good about the next four games, then you see the next four games.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I mean, look, I'll put it this way.

[Richard Paul]

Can they go 11 in a row?

[Max Kellerman]

Probably not. Just because the odds are, like what happened with the Lakers. The odds are someone's going to get you. But the Knicks.

[Richard Paul]

Oh, but you. But you. Okay, I see what this is.

[Max Kellerman]

The Knicks, if they can navigate through

[Richard Paul]

the east somehow, it's going to be tough.

[Max Kellerman]

And they match up with the spurs, which I think is. I think the spurs are more likely to come out of the west than anyone. They could do it. They match up well with them.

[Richard Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Style of play.

[Richard Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. Anyway, Max. Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Perspective.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. Get rich quick.

[Richard Paul]

Yes, it's perspective. And what brought me to this last night, just over the last couple days, I was dealing with something with a client and a client get injured. And his perspective was so positive.

[Max Kellerman]

The injured client.

[Richard Paul]

Yes. And I was just like, if we need more people in the world with this perspective on things, because in the moment, to where something has happened to you and you got every reason to be angry and to. And to, you know, just. Just go off on a tangent in the real moment. I'm talking about minutes after this situation took place. He was not. He was very like, you know, objective about the situation and very, what do you say? Positive. Just like, you know, things happen, I come back from it. And in my position as an agent, you know, the biggest thing you're worried about is how somebody's mental, you know, where they're at mentally, and how this is going to affect them. And it affects. It has a domino effect on everything. And to deal with that situation in that moment and have someone like him have such a profound perspective on. On the situation, although it's still a tough thing to go through, enlightened everything else. And so I started to equate that to life. It's like. And I always thought that, like, the most important thing you can have is perspective in a lot of. In a lot of, lot of instances. And so that really done something to me in a good way that day. And I was. That was one of those moments. Just in my day job, I really appreciated, you know, just his, his thought process.

[Max Kellerman]

I know someone who said, smartest person I know who said that anxiety is really just the loss of perspective, which is usually true.

[Richard Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

If you, you lose perspective and you get that, you're on like a hapster wheel of like, oh, I got this is happening, this and that's. And you wind up in a very kind of narrow place because you don't see the big picture.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. Growing up, I had to have a perspective on a lot of different things. And it actually helped me. Having a better perspective helped me get through my most challenging moments as a kid. It really did. I didn't know it then.

[Max Kellerman]

How'd you do that as a kid? How'd you change your perspective as a kid?

[Richard Paul]

I don't know. It was just my. It was just. I would always be like, damn, you know, whether it's always having to get a ride from somebody else's parents to a game or parent teacher conference and my mom wasn't able to be there, etc. But my perspective didn't allow me to kind of.

[Max Kellerman]

What was your perspective? I was gonna make it. Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

My perspective was, well, I got great grades, so it's all good and you know, I'll be all right. Or if it was nights that my mom didn't necessarily come home from for many nights, my perspective was my sister's here, my brother got me.

[Max Kellerman]

You think that it's because you had a role model in your father who was an entrepreneur, who had to be, you know, your entrepreneur of a small business, the corner store.

[Richard Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

That it's not like anyone is giving you an assignment. Like at a job, you have to do this and this. You have to be a self starter. You have to be on top of everything. You have to be responsible for everything.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And you had that role model.

[Richard Paul]

Oh, that, that, that definitely helped me. No, absolutely.

[Max Kellerman]

Because I notice in dealing with you, you're very Entrepreneurial and, and I think, like, where does that come from? More entrepreneurial than I am, for example.

[Richard Paul]

That definitely comes from, from, from my dad, but also that comes from my community. You got to realize I grew up amongst all entrepreneurs.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Now in the street, whether what side of the line they were on, it don't matter. They were, they were entrepreneurs. And so that was, that was something that, that I embraced the entire time.

[Max Kellerman]

But the perspective thing is, that's why I bring up your dad is you see someone who's able to kind of in like no one can control their whole environment. It's just out of your control. Yeah. But it was very successful at controlling a kind of contained environment. Right. Making it happen. And you have that guy as your role model. So you see, it's possible.

[Richard Paul]

My dad was always like that too. He had a. He had this, this uncanny ability to be just very calm and very, very frantic situations, which I would imagine his perspective on the situation was a lot different than others, which allowed that calmness, obviously. Yeah. And then he was able to exude it and give. Because perspective is all about gaining clarity too. So anytime you can gain clarity, clarity on something and then allows you to make a better decision.

[Max Kellerman]

Which involves what, stepping back and seeing the whole picture.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. It would be situate. Going back to what we talked about with the cold open earlier today. It's like if you're able to remove the social media comments from all of this and really gain a better perspective and gain clarity, like what is the actual value or what is the actual issue? And then be able to differentiate. You know, it's on a scale of 1 to 10, is it a 1 or is it 10? And then I just think it helps everything else the better perspective you have on a situation that brings forth clarity. If you have a clear mind, then you can make a decision a lot better than you can in a vacuum.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Richard Paul]

Or an impulsive decision.

[Max Kellerman]

Be Michael Corleone, not Sonny.

[Richard Paul]

There you go.

[Max Kellerman]

You get shot up on the causeway. Don't get shot up on the causeway.

[Richard Paul]

100%.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. That was actually pretty good, Matt.

[Caller/Guest]

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[Max Kellerman]

So, all right, ready for five minute max?

[Richard Paul]

No, because I've already had 15. 25 minute max on.

[Max Kellerman]

See what you got on. See what I got on. This is the Yankees, brother.

[Richard Paul]

Wait, I thought you was doing it on something else.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm doing it on the Yankees. Okay. Opening night tonight in San Francisco.

[Richard Paul]

Why you not there, Mr. Yankee?

[Max Kellerman]

You know, I called you and I was like, hey, you want to go up to catch the game?

[Richard Paul]

No, that was for tomorrow. You said.

[Max Kellerman]

No, I said. What I said was, why don't we head up there, catch the Yankees, and then go to Arkansas and Arizona?

[Richard Paul]

What time is the game the next day?

[Max Kellerman]

It's tonight.

[Richard Paul]

Okay, well, it's seven o' clock in the morning. Let's go.

[Max Kellerman]

We can still figure it out. All right, listen. So Rich, as a Yankees fan.

[Richard Paul]

Yes, I am.

[Max Kellerman]

I know that, you know, a lot of Yankees fans, if you go to the Bronx, a lot of Yankees fans think that they're supposed to win the World Series every year. That's never going to happen.

[Richard Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

It doesn't happen. I understand. They can't win the World Series every year. I do insist, however, As a Yankees fan, 27 championships, by far the most in the history of American team sports, that they win the World Series more than anyone else. And I especially insist that they win it more than their arch rivals.

[Richard Paul]

Who are.

[Max Kellerman]

There are really three names that come to mind. There's the Mets, cause they share the town with them. There's the Red Sox, who are really the number one rival, because the AL east in the whole history. And there's the Dodgers, because they used to share the town with them. And then it's a New York, Louisiana thing. And the Mets, forget about them. They're like the, usually the, you know, little brother in town. The Red Sox have won four World Series in this century so far the Yankees have won one. And the Dodgers are going for a three peat this year.

[Richard Paul]

I'm also a Dodgers fan and they might get it.

[Max Kellerman]

They might. The Dodgers might get it because they run better than the Yankees.

[Richard Paul]

Well, they improve this summer.

[Max Kellerman]

They improve.

[Richard Paul]

Or this off season rather like, you

[Max Kellerman]

know, you have Kyle Tucker, that's the blue chip player that's available. They get him. They got Mookie Betts, they got Freddie Freeman. The Yankees bargain hunt for like gold Schmidt. Cause they don't want to spend the money on Freeman. Come on, guys. But the reason I bring all this up is Cashman is a good gm. I don't think he's good enough to be the Yankees gm. Because to be the Yankees gm, you should be clearly the best gm. And you want that.

[Richard Paul]

I think Max Kellerman should be the Yankees.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not good enough anymore. Thirty years ago, yes, I'm not good enough anymore. People, you know, they got really qualified people nowadays. They didn't used to, but now they do in baseball. So my point is, Rich, that the Yankees are a powerhouse every year and that's not good enough. They need to be like the Dodgers. But this year, just by kind of staying pat, standing pat, there's a chance that they're the best team in baseball once Garrett Cole and Rodin get healthy. Because if you look at the team, there's really the closest thing to a hole on that team is at third base. And McMahon, they have a guy who can play, he can hit maybe just enough, he can play some defense. I'd like a little more offense from the position, but whatever. At shortstop they have a very good defensive player and then they have depth behind him. That's also not a strength of the team. But everywhere else you look, there's kind of loaded. They're loaded in the starting pitching, they're loaded in the lineup. They have guys, Spencer Jones like, who's being touted as a left handed. Aaron Judge, who strikes out too much. But this year in the spring, hit like Aaron Judge. They like, you know, Jason Dominguez, can't even get a whiff right now. They have a kid, Ben Rice, who's excellent, but all his metrics say he's about to explode this year. He got a little unlucky last year and was still an excellent hitter. The Yankees by standing pat. I'm not happy with it because the Dodgers are more active and they are Run better. But I have to tell you, on paper, to me they look like the best team in the American League. Major League baseball. Opening day is here right now. Fanduel is the home of home run bets on baseball all season long. All right, team win totals ready for this? The Dodgers are a juggernaut. The over under is 103 and a half wins. I don't. I. Look, I know I'm a Yankees fan. They won 116 games one year. But in 98. But if you would have given me the odds, I have to take the under. I have to take the under on 100 three and a half wins. You're going to have one of the greatest teams of all time win 103 games. That's the under. I'm taking the under on. The Dodgers win total favorite division winners. Well, now I'm going to take the Dodgers again. And I know they're minus 700. I'm not getting great odds on this. But who's going to win the NL West? Yeah. The team who's over under is 103 and a half wins. I'm taking the Dodgers even at minus 700. All right, world Series pick. Now I'm going to have to go with my Yankees in a rematch with the Dodgers. Are we talking about World Series to get to the World Series or are we talking about World Series to win the World Series? I'm going to give you my pick to get to the World Series. And I will say that the Yankees have a hell of a shot to get there and so do the Dodgers. And I think we may get a rematch this year of that World Series. I think it's the best Yankees team in a long time. Very deep starting pitching. Home run pick for the Yankees Giants game. Listen, I love me some Aaron Judge. If it was October, I would not pick him. It's April. I love Judge to go deep in this game. You know, George Steinbrenner once called Dave Winfield. He said about Reggie Jackson leaving the Yankees, I let Mr. October get away. Now I have Mr. May. We're in April. I love Judge all day. And Aaron, please keep this. Exactly what you do in the regular season, just keep doing it in the playoffs. You'd be the best player ever. Judge or go deep. FanDuel is the place to bet on Major League Baseball all season long. And make sure to make your free daily dinger pick each day to win a profit boost. Yes, I am obviously very excited for this season.

[Richard Paul]

What does a Yankees, Red Sox, ALCS and then a Yankees and Or Red Sox, Dodgers, World Series do for the game of baseball.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, you saw a classic series this last October involving the Dodgers and what that did to the baseball ratings.

[Richard Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

If you get the Yankees in the mix with the Dodgers in a World World Series rematch from a couple years ago and the Red Sox and the Yankees or in a.

[Richard Paul]

Send the Red Sox too, because Tom Warren is my man.

[Max Kellerman]

And also the Red Sox have, because of their success in this century, they've developed kind of an international following. And also they have all the territory from like the middle of Connecticut up to Maine to themselves. Right where the Yankees are splitting. New York with the Mets. Yeah, if you. If it would baseball. And baseball's been getting better, by the way. It's another thing that's happening tonight, Abs. The automatic ball strikes thing where they can challenge the hitters, can challenge the call a couple times a game.

[Richard Paul]

It's a big thing. Baseball doing a good job of kind of switching things up.

[Max Kellerman]

I agree.

[Richard Paul]

I think they are.

[Max Kellerman]

They've been doing that in recent years now.

[Richard Paul]

We just got to get. Baseball just has to get a little bit more connectivity to culture.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

And we need to get the. We need to get the game back in the community as well. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

When you say the community or you say urban, and they're all different codes, words.

[Richard Paul]

No, we need more black.

[Max Kellerman]

Talking about black players. African American players.

[Richard Paul]

African American.

[Max Kellerman]

Because there are lots of African, Afro Caribbean players.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, we need. We need more. We need more black kids playing baseball.

[Max Kellerman]

That's the reason that's important beyond like any other kind of sociological thing, is it's a reflection of youth culture oftentimes. And it's a powerful black culture, is a powerful force in youth culture. At the very least.

[Richard Paul]

I played baseball.

[Max Kellerman]

Percentage of our population.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, I played. I played gya baseball. I played for the Yankees, actually. Coached by Coach Herb. Come on, big pitch. That was his thing.

[Max Kellerman]

And what'd you play? What position?

[Richard Paul]

I played right fielder, third baseman.

[Max Kellerman]

So you had an arm.

[Richard Paul]

Well, I think he was just throwing me out there. But we were serious. And I'm gonna tell you something, man. Growing up, I had a lot of friends that were really good baseball players when I was a kid, the environment.

[Max Kellerman]

Just look at the major leagues when I was a kid. If you talk about African American, it's

[Richard Paul]

some of my favorite players.

[Max Kellerman]

Ricky Henderson, Azie Parker, Jim Rice, you

[Richard Paul]

know, Tony Gwyn was really great. Eric Davis. I. We. I mean, I remember this was unbelievable. Yeah. Bobby Bonilla, Barry Bonds. I mean, we had great reg.

[Max Kellerman]

When I was A kid right there

[Richard Paul]

in Cleveland with me. Kenny. Kenny Lofton, Albert Bale Murray. We. No, those. Those teams were really good. We went to the world series in 95 and 97 back then that.

[Max Kellerman]

That baseball, because it. It was. It was more inclusive demographically, or at least it was. There was more demographic representation that more closely mirrored American life that. That it was like, you know, sports show, national sports showed with baseball all the time.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. Ken Griffey Jr. Had his own shoe. Right. Deion Sanders had the Diamond Turf.

[Max Kellerman]

Mark McGuire was the biggest star in the world for a year.

[Richard Paul]

No, I had the diamond. His shoe was called the Diamond Turf because he played. Deion Sanders. Yeah, he played baseball. Diamond turf football.

[Max Kellerman]

Bo Jackson.

[Richard Paul]

Bo Jackson, yeah, of course. So. But I think the programs, the city programs were cut, and next thing I know, there was no gyaa.

[Max Kellerman]

And there was also a shift. I remember even the PS41 schoolyard, like playing stickball or wiffle ball and all. But everyone really, at a certain age, everyone wanted to play basketball and football more.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, right.

[Max Kellerman]

It's true. They're more exciting sports.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. Until you see, you know, 10 years, 700.

[Max Kellerman]

That's very exciting. But because baseball is a more mechanical sport, the path to success is less clear. In other words, if you're a top prospect in basketball or football, you can see a path to. To the big money more easily than if you're a top prospect in baseball, where it's going to require years of mechanical development, injury risk.

[Richard Paul]

But for some reason, in certain cities, we like. Even if you think about soccer, why isn't more kids, especially black kids, playing soccer? Who? You? You.

[Max Kellerman]

It's boring. Oh, sorry.

[Richard Paul]

No, no, it's not boring. It's just not one that is. I would say glorified's the wrong word, but it's not one that is. Is present in the community.

[Max Kellerman]

We don't grow up because it's very difficult for soccer to take root anywhere where basketball is already there. Yeah, but it costs you, because basketball is the same as soccer, but superior. It's a. It's just. Yeah, it's like the evolution of soccer.

[Richard Paul]

I think a lot has to do with it. It's a long conversation we should have on the next show. Yeah, but I will say it costs you nothing to play soccer. You don't even need shoes.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Same with basketball, though.

[Richard Paul]

Oh, you need shoes to play basketball.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah. And you.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, yeah, you do. Yeah, but. All right. Yo, this coaching job.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Which one should have? Oh, you talking about Hubert?

[Richard Paul]

Well, Hubert's Out.

[Max Kellerman]

But I'm saying, I'm saying you say that job.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

What do you think about it?

[Richard Paul]

Well, look, today's coaching job, Today's college coaching job is a lot different than Yesterday's. If you're 35 or 40 and older, you don't look at the UNC job the same way we looked at it when it was Dean Smith or Guthridge for that matter, or even Matt Doherty for that matter. NIL has totally changed the coaching job. The other thing I would say is they're coming off of Hubert Davis, so I don't think they'll hire another African American coach. I think they'll go a different. Normally it skips. I mean, so I think it'll go a different route there. I would say to get one of these, you know, younger coaches that you can grow with, be there for 20 years, that could be there. But also you. You have to give these coaches a really good NIL package. Right. If you're giving a coach at the UNC program, if you're giving them $8 million for nil, what's the number for nil at UNC? Yeah, to be really good. 20 million. 15 to 20 million.

[Max Kellerman]

You want to do some, you want to do some emails?

[Richard Paul]

Let's do it.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I'm looking for them right now.

[Richard Paul]

But wait.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, we got a lot of stuff.

[Richard Paul]

I know, but everything here, the 65 game rule.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, you want to talk about again?

[Richard Paul]

I mean, I understand why people are upset and you know this idea that

[Max Kellerman]

they said because Giannis.

[Richard Paul]

Well, it's not just that. I mean, you have people that. I mean all NBA team. You can't make the all NBA team.

[Max Kellerman]

The problem is if you try to legislate something out of the game, like people are being load managed. We want to legislate that out of the game. We're going to come up with rules to address it. There will.

[Richard Paul]

Rules are.

[Max Kellerman]

They're not feeling things. Right. They're automatic. So there will always be exceptions to the rule or individuals. You go, man, I wish that was an exception to this rule. Here is an example where the rule is applied and we don't like the outcome. That's called the exception to the rule.

[Richard Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, does the rule work? If you want to argue it does work. Someone will say, yeah, but what about this? And it's not fair. Giannis or whoever it is gets penalized for it. Yeah, maybe they're the exception to the rule, but the rule works.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Or if you want to argue it doesn't work. Tweak it.

[Richard Paul]

But here's what I'll say about the rule. The rule is the rule. So I'm not going around that. And I saw what the NBPA put out and maybe they amended, maybe they won't. We'll see. But more importantly, when you think about these players, there's two things you have to think about. One, how it affects, how it does affect all NBA. Because those are monster, you know, increases.

[Max Kellerman]

Cade Cunningham is in this situation.

[Richard Paul]

There's monster increases. And then the second thing is for all shoe deals, but especially for signature athletes, there's rules within contracts. There's a 62 game minimum that you have to hit before your contract and shoe deals start. Get prepared, getting prorated, people think. And that's why I, I don't like when people put out these big numbers

[Max Kellerman]

and shoe deals because it's not guaranteed.

[Richard Paul]

And if it's not real, a lot of that's fluff, a lot of that. You're adding up every bonus that you have to make in order to get that you throw that number out. That's not true. But that's neither here nor there. The point I'm trying to make is there is not all guaranteed. Bless you. Bless you again. There's a proration in these contracts. Best you again. So If I got 60 games played and I only need two more games to play and there's 14 more games left in the season and I'm not even saying I have to play it don't specify you have to play 30 minutes. Games played could be check in, check out. That's why sometimes you see in the All Star Game you'll see somebody check in and then check file and check right back out. Is because that may have been to make the All Star team or to it don't say make it. Say you have to play in the All Star game. That could be 500,000, a million, 2 million. It just depends. So you know, a shoe company will say not only do you have to make the All Star team, you have to play in the All Star team. And if you miss on that, that's tough, man.

[Max Kellerman]

That's why it's hard to legislate stuff like, I mean the NBA is trying, but it's hard to legislate stuff like load management out of the game. You look at these guys, some of the guys just get hurt. But otherwise they played let's say 62 games, right? And they were really, really, really good. And they're, they're asked out because of the rules. I mean that's what happens. I know you want to tweak the rules. You tweak them.

[Richard Paul]

Look, there's going to be. There's situations like that and everything, you know, where whether a guy got bonuses is contract play a certain amount of minutes and, you know, unfortunately get hurt and things like that. It happens.

[Max Kellerman]

But we're going to use those outliers or those cases to argue against the rule. But, yeah. All right, you ready to do emails?

[Richard Paul]

Let's do it.

[Max Kellerman]

David Isaacson. Guys, really enjoy the show so far. Thank you. Rich, can you walk us through the story of how you landed courtside season tickets for Lakers games?

[Richard Paul]

Absolutely. I called the Lakers, said, hey, do you have any courtside seats available?

[Max Kellerman]

How much?

[Richard Paul]

They said, yes. I said, how much? They gave me the price. I called my cfo. Huh. Does this fit in the budget? Yes, it does. I'll take them.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Pretty straightforward.

[Richard Paul]

Pretty straightforward.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Max, after leaving First Take, you were away from the spotlight for about two years. What was that time?

[Richard Paul]

Actually, I got him back. Give me my flowers. Who got you back in the scene?

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, I was doing. I was.

[Richard Paul]

He wasn't doing anything.

[Max Kellerman]

No, but I was. I was not doing nothing. It's just that I liked what you. What you said. I was like, that fits into the plan. Remember how you called your cfo? It fit into the budget.

[Richard Paul]

Everybody has a plan until they get punched. So the guy.

[Max Kellerman]

Actually, yeah, Let me tell you what I was. That's what I was doing. Those. Okay, first of all, Rich and I were working on this basically in different forms. The best part about it, Rich, is because of my schedule, I hadn't gotten to, like, drive my kids to school or take them to school. In New York, you take them to school or pick them up from school, being super dad. Oh, I got to take the kids to school. Pick them up.

[Richard Paul]

Sorry.

[Max Kellerman]

That since they were little. So good.

[Richard Paul]

Sorry, kids. I didn't mean to do that.

[Max Kellerman]

What's that?

[Richard Paul]

Well, I caused you not to.

[Max Kellerman]

No, listen, you can only do that for so long. You got to get back to work. I'm just saying, you know, it was good.

[Richard Paul]

Okay. Okay, good.

[Max Kellerman]

Hey, guys, it's Blake from. Oh, no. Oh, this is good. Becca wants to know from you. What did Jerry Maguire get right and what did it get wrong about being an agent? I want to hear this.

[Richard Paul]

What did Jerry Maguire get right? I think what Jerry Maguire got right was there is this. I would say it's done. It's not a panic. But you're always paranoid, right? So he was always paranoid. And he also got right to leave a situation that he felt like wasn't really supporting him and he wanted to do his thing.

[Max Kellerman]

Went out on his own.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, he went on his own. I mean, I've done that. What he got wrong was he was reactive. He was very reactive instead of being proactive. I really hated the show me the money scene. I know that's the best part for most people, but I really hated that scene, so. But those are two things.

[Max Kellerman]

Agents, basically transactional.

[Richard Paul]

No. Right?

[Max Kellerman]

No.

[Richard Paul]

Some are not all.

[Max Kellerman]

Not the good ones.

[Richard Paul]

Speak for yourself.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not an agent. Hey, guys, it's Blake from Florida. First off, I love what you guys are doing. Show is great. I wanted your opinion. Name me the best draft classes of all time in both NBA and NFL. I don't have a unique answer for. I mean, I'm going to say what most people say.

[Richard Paul]

I mean, look, the 84 class.

[Max Kellerman]

You can't get the 83 or 84. 84, you're talking.

[Richard Paul]

That's Michael's class.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, oh, you're doing NBA first.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. NBA.

[Max Kellerman]

Jordan, Hakeem Barkley.

[Richard Paul]

It's 84 class.

[Max Kellerman]

Stockton.

[Richard Paul]

I think so.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. That's 84 class, by the way.

[Richard Paul]

96 class.

[Max Kellerman]

What's so great about this is. It's the Jordan draft, the Kobe draft, the LeBron draft. Yeah, the Kobe draft. Also had AI. Also had Antoine Wall Nash. Also had someone else. Really, really good. Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

Marbury Camby, I think, was in that class.

[Max Kellerman]

Camby went second overall. I don't know if it was that year.

[Richard Paul]

I think so.

[Max Kellerman]

It went AI.

[Richard Paul]

And then Camby, I think so. Because there was. There's a famous slam coverage. They're all on the COVID So it's like John Wallace. It's like. No, no, Sharif Abdul Rahim is in that class because he went to.

[Max Kellerman]

It was a great. And then LeBron, obviously. Carmelo Bosch.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, the 03 class. But there's some other classes, too. There's some more recent classes that was really good that we're not thinking about.

[Max Kellerman]

Hakeem is the problem. You got Jordan and Hak. Hakeem in the same draft is insane. Let alone Barkley and Stockton.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. NFL. I'm not.

[Max Kellerman]

It's the quarterback one. It's the one. It's 83 with Marino and Elway, and

[Richard Paul]

I was born in 19.

[Max Kellerman]

Jim Kelly. It's got to be that one.

[Richard Paul]

I'm just saying.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. In your lifetime.

[Richard Paul]

There's seven rounds to the NFL draft. We can't. We can't remember all that.

[Max Kellerman]

But if you got three. Upper tier hall.

[Richard Paul]

That's incredible. Well, that's a good start.

[Max Kellerman]

Hell of a start.

[Richard Paul]

That's a hell of a start. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. And hell of an end. I think. I think we're done.

[Richard Paul]

We're done.

[Max Kellerman]

Long pot. How long did we go today? One ot.

[Richard Paul]

It's not bad.

[Max Kellerman]

No, but usually an hour. Anything over is. Is overtime.

[Richard Paul]

Well, you had extra mousse in the. In the makeup room.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Richard Paul]

I was telling you. Come on, let's go. Extra.

[Max Kellerman]

Moose.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. Look at your hair, Moose. It hasn't moved the whole show.

[Max Kellerman]

High school. I mean, I got stuff in my hair, but it's not. Moose.

[Richard Paul]

What is it, then? It's not Murray's. It's not sporting waves.

[Max Kellerman]

It's. I'm not going to shout them out because they don't, you know, they have to sponsor the show for us to shout them out.

[Richard Paul]

It's not so glo.

[Max Kellerman]

It is not. I. I used to use pomade, though, and I can't. You couldn't wash it out? It's terrible. So I use the stuff to kind of like it. That. That's not exact.

[Richard Paul]

You know what you should do? You should.

[Max Kellerman]

Like molding paste, I think they call it.

[Richard Paul]

No, you should get the Beijing one time. You should do the Beijing one time for the show. One time. Max. We'll do your beer boom. Have you come in. Do the Beijing just one time.

[Max Kellerman]

And what are you gonna do?

[Richard Paul]

I'll do the opposite. I don't do the Beijing. So, you know, just one time.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, listen, I'll see you on Friday.

[Richard Paul]

No, I'll see you at the airport.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, we're going to the. We're gonna go to the Yankees.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, you get the tickets? It's a quick. We can go and come back Same night. There's 11 o'. Clock United. That comes back. San Francisco. 11 o'. Clock.

[Max Kellerman]

Won't do it, will it?

[Richard Paul]

Yeah, why not? The game's not gonna go to 11 o'. Clock.

[Max Kellerman]

West coast.

[Richard Paul]

Yeah. If it does, we'll leave in the eighth inning.

[Max Kellerman]

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