NBA Playoffs, LeBron Retirement Talk, and Coachella | Game Over

Summary

Podcast Summary: Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: NBA Playoffs, LeBron Retirement Talk, and Coachella
Date: April 20, 2026
Produced by: The Ringer

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Main Theme / Purpose

In this jam-packed episode, Max Kellerman and super-agent Rich Paul break down the early NBA Playoff storylines, examine LeBron James' future and the surrounding media conversation, discuss seismic shifts in NBA culture (including sneakers and fandom), and veer into personal and pop culture territory with a fun Coachella story. The duo’s signature blend of sharp analysis, inside scoops, humor, and authenticity gives listeners both high-level basketball insight and a behind-the-scenes look at sports business and culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL Draft vs. NBA Draft & Fandom

Timestamps: 01:23–07:39

• Rich Paul's NFL Draft Experience: Rich details Clutch Sports’ involvement. They take roughly 40 people (agents, comms, service teams) to support their three draft-invited clients (e.g. Arvel Reese, Colton Hood, Kaden Proctor).
  • "You are the face of Clutch Sports. They want to see Rich Paul show up." – Max [01:25]
  • "I would say 40 people, the agents. Nicole kind of leads it…We probably take about, I would say, 40 people." – Rich Paul [01:40]
• NFL Draft’s Traveling Carnival & Fandom: NFL Draft invokes intense city-based tribalism; fans travel, wear gear – totally different from the NBA’s more star-driven, smaller, less mobile draft events.
  • "It's one thing where you're going to these NFL cities and it's the fandom as much as it's about the draft. Like, these fans travel and they have on the gear…" – Rich Paul [03:43]
  • "I think you become fans of individuals that play in the NBA. I don't know if you're born like a Bears fan or…" – Rich Paul [05:28]
• Team Fandom vs. Star Fandom: NFL is more tribal; NBA’s following is driven by individual stars. This helps NBA market globally, but hinders local, legacy-based support for teams.

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2. NBA Playoffs: Early Headlines & Analysis

Timestamps: 10:02–33:15

• Orlando Magic’s Breakout: Orlando shocked Detroit, validating some preseason hype. Max gives credit but says they still lack a true superstar.
  • "They could be in the Eastern Conference Finals. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Orlando vs Boston…" – Rich Paul [12:12]
  • "But there's no one on that team with super high-end ability. I think you need one of those guys on a team to get to the Finals... I don't think (Banchero) could be the best player on a championship team." – Max Kellerman [13:00]
• Value of True Superstars: They stress—the max contract must be an underpayment for your top guy:
  • "If you give somebody a max contract, what you’re really looking for is to underpay them, meaning they’re worth more than the max...I don’t see anyone on Orlando like that." – Max [14:22]
• Pistons’ Missed Opportunity: Rich laments their lack of urgency at the trade deadline.
  • "There were a piece or a piece and a half out there that they probably could have gotten and they chose not to." – Rich Paul [16:38]

Lakers & LeBron Playoff Performance

• LeBron’s Heroics at 40+:
  • "LeBron played out of his mind for a 40-something-year-old to play like that with that cast around him." – Max [17:13]
  • "I thought he played well...he came out understanding 'I have to use this opportunity to build confidence in my guys because I am going to need them.'” – Rich Paul [17:49]
  • On Canard: "The idea that LeBron's playing with a kid that broke his high school record years after he was even in high school, and they're still in the game together with LeBron's son, by the way." – Max/ Rich [19:55–20:07]
  • "But game two, he has to have at least 25. He can't have 19. He has to be more aggressive..." – Rich Paul [18:24]
• Lakers’ Supporting Cast: Ayton, Hachimura, Kennard... are “rotation pieces,” but LeBron shoulders the load.

San Antonio Spurs & Victor Wembanyama

• Wemby is the New Face of the NBA:
  • "Wemby's the...he'll be the face of the league, I'm convinced. And I'm gonna tell you why—because he allows you to buy into his number one, his humility, while also bringing it every night..." – Rich Paul [23:07]
  • "He's the first dude who you look at, you go, maybe this dude can really sell sneakers."' – Max [23:52]
  • "When I look at Wemby, I wonder: is he going to be regarded one day as the best basketball player ever? Because right now, Rich, he’s the best player in the NBA." – Max [25:29]
  • "That would have to take a lot of winning, first and foremost...but they picked right." – Rich Paul [25:42]

OKC Thunder’s Draft Capital

• Roster Construction: Enormous future asset base, multiple picks, but not enough roster spots.
  • "OKC feels unfair right now because not only are they as good as they are, Rich, they got two firsts and a second in this draft." – Max [26:04]
  • "That's embarrassment of riches." – Rich Paul [26:19]

Sixers, Celtics, Knicks

• Tyrese Maxey’s Stardom:
  • "When I watch...Boston and the Sixers, it’s just like...when you have someone at that age that is that talented...that’s a real opportunity." – Rich Paul [28:12]
• Celtics’ Switchability: Versatile defense, highlights importance of length/size in playoff matchups.
  • "The Celtics have long, switchable defenders everywhere you look..." – Max [29:00]
• Knicks-Hawks & Karl-Anthony Towns: Towns’ shooting and star quality, but Atlanta left the door open. Brunson’s poise and efficiency earns praise.

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3. Bothered or Unbothered: LeBron’s Retirement, Contracts, and Owner Controversies

Timestamps: 34:26–51:56

Adam Silver & Jeannie Buss on LeBron’s Future

• LeBron staying in LA?
  • "He's a valuable player in this league even in his 23rd season...Maybe he just wants to go out quietly." – Jeanie Buss [37:01]
  • “In terms of value, he’s never been paid his value to the league…not on any team.” – Rich (on the difficulty of matching LeBron’s worth) [39:59]
  • "Every team will want his last year. Why wouldn't they? There's things you'll be able to monetize..." – Rich Paul [40:21]
• Agent’s Approach:
  • "I don’t speak to him about anything until he decides he wants to talk. I try to give him enough space and let him get with his family..." – Rich Paul [40:45]

NBA Owners & Dolan Controversy

• James Dolan’s Surveillance at MSG:
  • Max, in an impassioned “Five-Minute Max” segment, rails against Dolan for allegedly having Knicks security use facial recognition to surveil and target critics.
    • "James Dolan is using surveillance at Madison Square Garden to quiet people who feel that he hasn't done a good job as the Knicks owner...That's so outrageous." – Max [46:20]
    • Rich is reserved: "I just don't get into these stories, so I don't know what to believe..." [51:10]
• Takeaway: Max calls for NBA owners to reconsider Dolan’s inclusion; Rich prefers not to speculate.

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4. Wemby Ascendant: Who’s the Best Player in the NBA?

Timestamps: 51:56–55:32

• Wemby’s Case for Top Player: The hosts agree Victor Wembanyama’s two-way skill makes him the most impactful player they watched all season.
  • "Wemby's the best player I saw this season. Wemby's the best player in basketball." – Max [52:08]
  • "He's a special...I've never seen nothing like it. I don't even understand it sometimes." – Rich [52:46]
• Jokic vs. Wemby for One Game:
  • Max: “I’m taking Wemby.”
  • Rich: “I’m taking Joker. I’m Joker.” [53:38–53:58]
• Wemby’s Defensive Grit: Not just physical tools— his attention on both ends is rare.
  • "He cares so much on both ends. You know he deserves, Wemby deserves...including the MVP award this year." – Max [55:14]

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5. Sneaker Culture, Teenagers, and the Changing Market

Timestamps: 57:53–71:24

• Nike’s Slipping Grip on Sneaker Culture:
  • "Yes, they're losing market share... for so many years, they probably dominated market share." – Max [57:53–58:18]
  • Too many “signature athletes” dilute the must-have status.
  • "There ain't that many kids that want signatures from these..." – Rich Paul [59:10]
• Generation Gap & Nostalgia:
  • "These kids today are actually in their teenage years. They can't relive...We can't force nostalgia on these kids." – Rich [60:44]
• Style Shift: Comfort > “hype”— kids wear Crocs, slides, “old man” shoes; less status attached to basketball shoes.
• Brand Partnerships: The MJ model—few, huge partnerships and authenticity—remains the gold standard.
  • "You don't need 20. You actually need, like, two...if you can get to four. But tier one guys, less is more." – Rich [71:24]

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6. Pop Culture Sidebar: Coachella, Golf, and Aging Out of the Scene

Timestamps: 72:00–77:31

• Why Rich & Max Didn’t Go to Coachella:
  • "Do you know how much you would have to pay me to go to Coachella? As a fan, how much you'd have to pay me?" – Max [72:50]
  • Rich: "I couldn't get tickets." (with jokes about needing music industry connections, preferring to play golf, etc.)
  • Banter about comfort, “portapotties as a dealbreaker,” and doing the show from Coachella with all the trappings.
  • Real talk about how, as you get older and successful, your standards change when attending events.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On LeBron’s Continued Greatness:
  • "He breaks a record every game." – Rich Paul [42:12]
  • "He’s meant so much to the game. He continues to mean so much to the game…there’ll be a big void once he’s done…" – Rich Paul [42:21]
• Wembanyama as Culture Shift:
  • "He's the first dude who you look at, you go, maybe this dude can really sell sneakers." – Max [23:52]
• Funnest Moment:
  • Max, ironically, bemoaning the hassle of Coachella and portapotties:
    “Anytime you tell me it looks porta Potty, I’m at out. Don’t even. If…” [76:00]
  • Banter about getting Max a trailer with air conditioning and a barber at Coachella.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:23–07:39: NFL Draft culture vs NBA, Clutch Sports’ client management, NFL vs NBA fandom
• 10:02–33:15: NBA playoffs opening headlines, Orlando, Detroit, Lakers, LeBron, Spurs/Wemby, OKC, Sixers, Celtics, Knicks, Hawks
• 34:26–51:56: Bothered/Unbothered—LeBron retirement rumors, owner controversies, James Dolan surveillance scandal
• 51:56–55:32: Wemby vs Jokic, “Who’s the best player right now?”
• 57:53–71:24: Sneaker market/personal sneaker stories, generational style shifts, the branding of athletes
• 72:00–77:31: Coachella, golf at Ladera, aging out of festival culture, how standards change over time

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Conclusion

“Game Over” delivers the goods once again: must-listen basketball conversation, real insider’s perspective on the business and culture of sports, and two personalities riffing with insight and humor. From deep dives into draft logic, roster construction, and LeBron’s contract, to high-level discussion on sneaker culture and fandom, Max and Rich keep it breezy but rich. For listeners who crave more than shallow highlight talk—this episode covers the playoffs and so much more.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Look, I love what I do. I highly recommend it. If you can get into this business, it beats working for a living. You watch sports, you talk about them, you debate about them, you give everyone your opinion about them. Right? You're gonna do that anyway, but you get paid for it. It's a good deal. People driven by passion are good for business. It's finding them that's the problem. Luckily, ZipRecruiter can help with that. Try it [e-mail] gameover ZipRecruiter is consistently on it. They have powerful matching tech, and they're frequently rated the number one hiring site based on G2 Plus. They added a new feature that pushes qualified candidates who are most interested in your job to the top of your list. Find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for [e-mail] gameover that's ziprecruiter.com gameover meet your match on ZipRecruiter. So you're gonna be at the draft on Thursday, huh?

[B]

NFL.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

[A]

What do you do there? Like, you go. So you go to the draft, I imagine, you know, you have clients, obviously, and people you're gonna sign and clutch sports and everything. And you are the face of clutch sports. They want to see Rich Paul show up. Right? That helps.

[B]

Yes. When I can make it, I don't have to be there. I try to be there when I can. Sometimes things get conflicted. We probably take about, I would say, 40 people, the agents. Nicole kind of leads it. And who's in the. Who's in the green room. You decide who's in the green room, etc. But we have a dinner, a company dinner prior with all the clients, too. All the clients.

[A]

Families.

[B]

And the families, yeah. And then, you know, we have. Our comms is there. You know, our client service team is there, led by Coral leads that team. The agents is there. Those that have players in the green room. I think out of 16 guys invited, we have three. And we try to stay at that number. Three, two, three, four. Yeah. So it doesn't get too big. I mean, obviously, if you can have all 16, great.

[A]

But.

[B]

Yeah, but, but, but realistically, you want to be at that number two or three. Who do you have this year so invited? We have Arvel Reese, who is from the Ohio State Buckeyes. But more importantly, he's from the Glenville community. My community I'm from, oddly enough. Like, we literally grew up probably, I don't know, less than 0.3 miles away from each other, which is great. But the Glenville community produced four or five blocks within.

[A]

Four or five blocks, yeah.

[B]

I mean, just count the names. Whitner, Lattimore, Ginn. They all from this one school, which is. Which is crazy. Chris Chambers also went to Glenville prior to going to a different school. Yeah, something in the water there for sure. We have Colton Hood, who defensive back. And we also have Kaden Proctor, offensive lineman from Alabama. So pretty good class there. I just like to be there when I can. The NFL draft is a lot different than the NBA draft.

[A]

They travel it around the country.

[B]

They travel around the country. And it's one thing where you're going to these NFL cities and it's the fandom as much as it's about the draft. Like, these fans travel and they have on the gear and it's like a real.

[A]

It's like you're at college game day or something.

[B]

It's not like that for the NBA. The NBA draft is less fandom. Obviously, it's in New York. And so the one fans that are there are New York Knick fans. But it's not like the Bulls fans travel and the Blazers fans travel, the Lakers fans travel.

[A]

Part of that. It's funny, you think about the built like you think about two different games. Let's say hockey and football, right? And you would think, well, if you didn't know anything about anything, you'd be like, hockey so fast, man, it's gonna be great on tv. Too fast for tv, right? There's no time, there's no pause in the action. Whereas football, it's like the difference between watching craps or poker on tv, right? Craps is fast. It's the game you want to play. But poker is like football. It lends itself to TV more because it's all these. There's not a lot of action. It's all build up, build up, build up, moment of action, breakdown, breakdown, breakdown. And I think the way football is a perfect TV sport has resulted in all of this. I don't think you can. And all the number of positions and the different amount of, you know, like, I don't think there's anything the NBA can do to make their draft like the NFL.

[B]

There's also a legacy sport as it pertains to family. Like, you grow, you're Born a, like I was born a Browns fan.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like you're born.

[A]

You don't think you're born an NBA fan?

[B]

No, I think you're. I think you become fans of individuals that play in the NBA. I don't, I don't know if it's. If you're born like a Bears fan or you born a Packers fan. You're like you just. Unless your dad is a die hard basketball fan.

[A]

Of that team.

[B]

Of that team.

[A]

Yeah. It's not just because you're born into the city that you're definitely going to root for that team.

[B]

Right. Like people were Bulls fans because of mj, of course, Michael Jordan, but they were. It's a double dip. I'm a Michael Jordan fan and I'm a Bulls fan. So you got two. Very seldom you get both of those things where you're. Where you're a Michael Jordan fan and

[A]

you're a Bulls fan. Yeah. But football, it's more like you're born into a religion almost like.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like you're a Browns fan because you're from Cleveland.

[B]

And it's the same way in college football too. It's the same way. And so that's where the similarities of global football are with the NFL. Like you kind of have that you're born into whatever.

[A]

But that's also part of like that dynamic. I said like hockey actually not a good TV sport compared to football, even though it's counterintuitive in a way. And that's the same thing with the fandom in the NBA because football careers are shorter and all that and there's so many players. It's much more likely like the advantage the NBA has in marketing individual stars works against that because you can just follow the stars where in football it's harder just to follow the stars. So you follow the team.

[B]

You follow the team. Yes, yes. But it makes for bigger support, I imagine as it turns, as it pertains to everything that a fan is into. They buy everything Detroit Lions, from hats to, to coats to scarves, season tickets, season tickets, doggy bowls. I mean everything that you can possibly make. Keychains that says Detroit Lions. Even when the Lions weren't. Were not as good as they are now. That's still your team. My Browns the same way still. I mean, I know. And, and the women are as big a football fans as anybody. I think that goes underrated as well.

[A]

Right. They tap into that market.

[B]

Oh, they tap into it big. So. But I'm excited about the draft. I. You know, we'll do our draft on Wednesday. At least. We at least have to do, like.

[A]

We'll do our top 10.

[B]

Our. Our top 10?

[A]

Yeah. Our mock draft.

[B]

Our mock draft.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. We'll do our top 10.

[B]

I got a pretty interesting one. All right.

[A]

I haven't done.

[B]

How was your weekend?

[A]

My weekend? It was good. It was like, no traveling, no nothing. In town. Spent time with my daughter. Watched a lot of basketball.

[B]

Yeah, I watched a lot of basketball.

[A]

Dad, can we go? I know I told you we could go, but. But actually, like, there were some games where by halftime it's like, yeah, we can go. I'll be back for the next.

[B]

Well, don't take that for Grant.

[A]

Go grab brunch.

[B]

Dad, we can go. She's not gonna be asking you that for long.

[A]

I know.

[B]

She's gonna be gone.

[A]

Oh, don't tell me that. Every time something comes up on reels. You only have one summer with your infant, three with your toddler.

[B]

My daughter tells me where she's at. She don't tell me. She don't ask me, dad, can we go? She. She has her own car. She has her own place. She don't need me for anything. All right, but she.

[A]

Let's start the show before I start getting choked up.

[B]

Yeah. All right. Let's start the show.

[A]

Game over with Max Kellerman, Rich Paul.

[B]

Game [e-mail] we get to your emails.

[A]

You see, you keep emailing. We'll get to them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA post season is here and FanDuel knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team is is winning along with them. Let's be honest, FanDuel is the best place to bet the team's players and plays during their playoff run. Build a same game parlay or try live betting and jump in after tip off. And don't forget, with FanDuel, you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game 21 and over in select states 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org ChattinConnecticut. Rich, there's a lot of games to get. And by the way, it's the same thing like early in the college tournament, early in the playoffs when everyone's playing, it's the best. All day, all day, wall to wall, it's the best.

[B]

It's the only thing that can stop me from Playing golf is his NBA playoffs.

[A]

Early in the play.

[B]

All these games are on and they matter. These games matter for sure.

[A]

What was your biggest take? What was. It doesn't have to be the number one biggest takeaway. What are your headlines from the weekend?

[B]

Well, I think the biggest headline is we are where we thought we would be. Pretty much outside of the Orlando win. Yeah, we're pretty much where we thought we would be.

[A]

I mean, I'll get into Orlando. Like, let's start right there. Here's a big headline for me. Orlando preseason. A lot of people liked Orlando a lot, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This was going to be the year they finally take the step. And it didn't look that way. Remember, matter of fact, when we were on, I think it was Friday, I was saying, listen, Charlotte really looks like the team looking forward that I'm excited about. Not Orlando so much. Orlando destroyed them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then beat up the Pistons on the road. The only first round upset like on the road so far is. Is Orlando handling Detroit?

[B]

They can also win game, too.

[A]

They could.

[B]

Yeah, I think Orlando could. I don't want to put too much into one win. They did what they came to do on the road. You're looking to get a split now. They can get greedy. And when you look at Orlando during the course of a regular season, a lot of things happen. They were never really healthy all year.

[A]

They were winning without Paolo early on.

[B]

Yeah. But they weren't healthy all year. So you kind of get into a funk. But when you're able to one get healthy towards the end of the year and then there's a world where you're prepared and they feel a little embarrassed going into the. Into the. Into this.

[A]

Into the expectation.

[B]

Right. But they added Bane, which gives you another veteran who's been there, who's also a shooter.

[A]

Bane is an all star caliber player.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, he. And he. Again, we talked about him earlier in

[A]

the show, early in the history of the show.

[B]

Yeah. He was one of those guys that I said, he may not get the recognition as these guys, but when it matters most, I want that guy on my team.

[A]

Kind of exactly what you're looking for in a shooting guard.

[B]

Yes. So when I look at Orlando, they could be in the Eastern Conference finals. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Orlando versus Boston in the Eastern Conference finals.

[A]

Here's the thing about Orlando, for me, I like their starting five a lot. Like, when you look at their starting five, you go, you know Suggs and Bain and. And Carter, and you got like one through Five. You go, ooh, nice, nice. You know how I said the lakers, other than LeBron, don't have any one league average at a position? If, like, obviously, if Reaves and luka aren't there, LeBron's not playing with a single league average starter. Everyone on Orlando is at least league average. It starts at league average and goes up.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But there's no one on that team with super high end ability. I think you need one of those guys on a team to get to the finals, to even, maybe even to get to the conference finals. A starting five where everything checks and all the boxes are checked, but you don't have that, hey, he's worth more than the max guy. It's hard. Like, who's their best player? If you want to say Von Caro is their best player, is he good enough to be the best player on a championship team? I don't think so. I think he could be the second best player.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with that. But I understand what you're saying too. Yeah, Those guys are hard to find. And what happens is where a team gets themselves in trouble is trying to force that exact guy that you're talking about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you end up overpaying a guy.

[A]

Right. He's our guy. We have his bird rights. We can pay him. And so, like, I really think, I think, like, even when we were. I know this is. Even when I brought up trading Austin Reaves and you just even entertained the idea and then everyone, oh, my God, Rich Paul saying this and this, really, the reason I brought up Austin Reaves was not because he's not an excellent player. I love Austin Reaves. It's that I think if you give someone a max contract, what you're really looking for is to underpay them, meaning they're worth more than the max. You don't want to just give a guy the max because he might be worth it. The only way to really construct a roster that can win championships is if your best player who's on his max deal is worth more than that, then you get value. Right. And I don't see anyone on Orlando like that. And that makes me suspicious of, well,

[B]

you know, me personally, you know, you're worth what you can negotiate. So.

[A]

But I mean, like in.

[B]

I know, I know what you say. Production wise. Production wise, you can look at it different and quit apologizing to people about giving somebody else props. We were giving somebody props. Comparing them to whomever in that moment. People just didn't like the messenger. But we can move on. From that, what do you think about the Cavaliers Raptor series?

[A]

Look, it's not like there's no surprises there. Like we said, the only surprise is Orlando and Detroit so far. Even though. How much of a surprise? Cade doesn't have enough help. But offensively. But. Yeah.

[B]

Well, that's where I. Well, going back to that, I thought.

[A]

Why, you were surprised by the Cleveland game.

[B]

No, no, no, I was. I'm just. I just. I don't think it's just going to be a sweep. I think. I think the Raptors should win a game or two. Maybe. Yeah, I think.

[A]

I think so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean. But at home, the better team is at home. They're the better team that in the regular season, they're at home. They should win.

[B]

It's not a series until somebody wins the road game. The road game anyway, which is why the Orlando win is so big. But we talked about this before on the Pistons. I thought at the trade deadline, they had a real opportunity.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And sometimes at the trade deadline, because your season's going so well, you don't want to change things up. But when I look at their team, I don't see that other. You can't. You. You can't count Duran because he's a big.

[A]

So you have to get his own. Yep.

[B]

So now that just leaves you. K. The. The Jenkins has been playing really good ball playing. But then everywhere else in between, I just didn't see it. I thought there was a real opportunity there.

[A]

No, you were right on that at the deadline about Detroit and they had. They kind of. It feels like they blew an opportunity this year.

[B]

Yeah, you gotta look, you have to be aggressive, man. You just. Cause you just never know the difference between seasons. So I always like to take the aggressive approach. Now, don't get me wrong, there's captain situations that you have to deal with.

[A]

And Future can't play fantasy basketball.

[B]

There's future. But I thought there were. There were a piece or a piece and a half out there that they probably could have gotten and they chose not to. So we'll see.

[A]

So I'll say this. Here are my headlines. I started with. Well, we talked about Orlando and Detroit, but my big headlines are heading into the Lakers game. I texted you about this once it came out. Durant got hurt. Hey, LeBron can steal one here, right? And put himself in a great position. Because if the Lakers can just defend home court once now against the KD Houston team, which is possible.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And they go up 2, 0, they have a shot in this series. And it didn't look likely. LeBron played out of his mind for a 40 something year old to play like that with that cast around him. And Canard, I mentioned that also the guy can't miss, but I didn't think he was going to drop 27.

[B]

Well, I said it would be about the others.

[A]

Yeah, but it's. LeBron had a heroic game. There's no two ways about it.

[B]

I thought LeBron played. I thought LeBron played well. Very. Now, obviously I'm jaded. I've seen the man since he was 16.

[A]

You got to factor in the age.

[B]

I'm not. Of course you factor in the age. What I'm saying is I thought he played well.

[A]

Look, Rich Paul, I think LeBron is excellent. I don't care what you say.

[B]

Great. I think he's excellent too. What I'm telling you is I thought that he came out with the understanding that, hey, I have to use this opportunity to build confidence in my guys because I am going to need them. Right.

[A]

But so often he does that and will sacrifice a game to get his.

[B]

Yeah, but you can't sacrifice a game under, man.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. Like he not only did the thing you're saying, but made sure they won the game.

[B]

But I think game two, he has to have at least 25. Right. He can't have 19.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He has to be more aggressive offensively because in essence you kind of. You didn't steal one, but you lucked

[A]

up that Durant didn't play the first game.

[B]

Yeah, no, Durant makes it more of a level playing field, so to speak. I thought Houston just, I thought they were very underwhelming.

[A]

Yeah, they don't listen without, without Van Vliet. This was the whole issue all season.

[B]

But remember when I told you, I said LeBron actually does more with less. But when you think about the passes that were being made and I see people out there, Eddie Johnson's funny. He's one, he's one of the best guy old, old timers out there when he, when he's talking basketball and somebody was trying to argue about LeBron's assists and he went to their stats or something. But nevertheless, as I'm watching the game, I'm watching him get guys involved to get them going. Vanderbilt had a three Marcus Smart canard, which a guy like Kennard and LeBron, they don't even have to ever even know each other to look like they've been. They've been together for 10 plus years because Kennard is A very smart basketball player.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Canard Crazy broke LeBron's high school scoring record.

[A]

Oh, Canard, he's an Ohio kid, by the way. They were saying it during the game. They were giving him his flowers. He's as a pure shooter. He's one of the best ever.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He's one of the best shooters ever.

[B]

Yes. He. Yes. But the, the idea that LeBron's playing with a kid that broke his high school record years after he was even in high school, and they're still in

[A]

the game together with LeBron's son, by the way.

[B]

Yes. That was another great moment. I think Bronnie would probably maybe get a little bit more minutes. I mean, getting him in there and that's a tough spot to be in, but I was happy he got some of those minutes. But then Ayton, we've been on Ayton all year. Aiden was better, man. Ayton was really good rebounding. Hachimora played really well. So you're gonna need that again.

[A]

Right. When I said there's. He's not playing with a single other average starter. Maybe Ayton is the closest thing he has. And by average starter, I mean are there. Are you between 10 and 20 at your position?

[B]

Yeah, I get it.

[A]

But, but like he is playing with at least rotation piece. Like Hachimura is a rotation piece on any team.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

DeAndre Ayton's a rotation piece on any team.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, Bernard is a starter on any team.

[B]

Ayton should be a starter on any team.

[A]

Ayton could potentially be a starter borderline star if he played the way he apparently doesn't want to play.

[B]

When you're underman like they are with the two, two, two really important pieces down, the Lakers still had 20 turnovers. That's too many turnovers. That's too many turnovers. Getting careless at the end of quarters. You just can't allow that. You can't make those mistakes. And they still won the game.

[A]

Yeah, but they let them hang around.

[B]

Yeah, you got to clean those things up because on the road that won't, it won't work out that way.

[A]

So here's the other big. So number one is for me is like LeBron and they. And they stole one because KD is not there. Now can they defend home court once against this Rockets team? Fully loaded without Van Vliet, of course.

[B]

But Katie may or may not play. We'll see.

[A]

Right. If he does play, apparently it's looking like it's trending towards. He will as last I saw if the Lakers can defend home court really once against a KD Rockets team. They're in a good position in the series. I thought they were going to get their.

[B]

Yeah, if you go into a. If you go on the road up 2 0, you like, because you're only looking for a split to come back home.

[A]

You just need one game. Okay, so then the other, the other big headline for me, Wembanyama, like, like, remember, he's a big because he's 7 foot 4, but he's not. He's a small forward. He's not even a. Wembanyama is a small forward because Rich, it's never looked like this from a big ever where he looks like. Like KD. The special thing about KD really is at almost 7ft or 7ft, whatever his it, he moves like a regular sized person, right? He moves gracefully at that size. It's not like a seven footer. Kind of looking awkward doing these. In kd, everything is smooth. He shoots the lights out. He can defend. He could do all these things. Certainly in his prime he could. And even now he could do a lot of them. And it looks regular. It doesn't look forced, right? Wembanyama is that. Now stretch it out another four or five inches. Almost another half foot. And the dude is dribbling behind the back and he's 360 and he's doing all kinds of crazy stuff on the floor.

[B]

Wemby's the. He'll be the face of the league, I'm convinced. And I'm gonna tell you why. Because he allows you to buy into his number one, his humility, while also bringing it every night on both ends of the floor. And fans are just gonna. We all love the Giants anyway. That's always been the NBA. We've all loved the Giants. But as I watch him more and more, I'm like, it's hard to not want to see this guy win.

[A]

But it's also. The Giants have. We love them, but we don't relate to them. They don't sell sneakers the same way. And a part of that is because their game doesn't look like the way a kid wishes he could play basketball.

[B]

But he is relatable. Wemby's relatable.

[A]

He's the first dude who you look at, you go, maybe this dude can really sell sneakers. Maybe one. I don't know about that, but it depends. The way his game looks is the kind of game that kids like to play.

[B]

Well, we'll get into that. We'll get into that. But I don't know about the seller sneakers part, but. But I will say this. You may not be wrong. Price point will matter in that and style. But that's a whole nother conversation. I don't want to go off the rails here. The other thing about the Spurs, Max, not only did they get it right with the draft picks in terms of their talent, they got it perfectly right with the draft picks in terms of their character.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

They hit a home run with these young players and their buy in. That is a very, very, very hard thing to do. Including Wemby.

[A]

Yeah, Wemby. Wemby is the first guy since LeBron. I don't want to get sidetracked. But like Michael Jordan, who can come along that you say, could he be better than Jordan? I didn't think that was Kobe. Their games were too similar. And I thought Jordan was just a little bit better. When you saw Shaq, you thought maybe just because he's so big, but he didn't shoot it well enough and didn't optimize every gift. He had the same way and also wasn't allowed to play the way he might have played had he come along a little bit later. Then LeBron comes along.

[B]

Could he be.

[A]

We don't have to argue about that. I think the answer is no. But I think Jordan still won.

[B]

But the next guy, you continue to be wrong.

[A]

The next guy to come along since then, where you go, could he be the best ever? Is Wemby. When I look at Wemby, I wonder, is he going to be regarded one day if he stays healthy as the best basketball player ever? Because right now, Rich, he's the best player in the NBA.

[B]

That would have to take a lot of. That would have to take a lot of winning first and foremost for him to get there. So if they can win, then, yeah, he has a chance.

[A]

Hard to imagine them not winning with it.

[B]

Well, you have to see.

[A]

He's going to be the defensive player of the year.

[B]

They're in a very good spot, I'll tell you that much. And it has a lot to do with picking right. They pick right. Okay.

[A]

Okay. So here's the other big headline. Okay. Ready for this? OKC feels unfair right now because not only are they as good as they are Rich, they got two firsts and a second in this draft.

[B]

That's embarrassment of riches.

[A]

Yeah, but there's no room on the roster. So what does that tell you?

[B]

Well, that.

[A]

Yeah, well, they're going to have to trade up.

[B]

That's not necessarily true. Still Sam Presti Max.

[A]

But what I'm saying is the most likely scenario with all their draft capital is that they consolidate it and trade up in the draft. Right.

[B]

You're saying trade up to get one person because they can't take three people. They're not doing that. No, they're not. They're not taking three.

[A]

And by the way, they have a chance. They have like a 1% chance to get the first overall pick in the draft. But at any rate, let's say they take the 10th guy in the draft, right. And they have the. They wind up with the 10th pick and whatever it is in the 20s and then in the second round you consolidate that and move up a couple spots. You can get maybe a franchise player that doesn't even come in with any pressure because he's not even going to get a lot of minutes. Like who's the highest upside guy in the draft?

[B]

Categon Wilson.

[A]

Right, that.

[B]

Right. They won't move up that far.

[A]

I don't know what if they wind up with the eighth pick in the draft?

[B]

They'll get a really good player but

[A]

they also have the 20 something and a second round and they could package it to move up. This is what I'm saying.

[B]

Yeah, but a team would have to want to do that. No one's trying to help. They are the best.

[A]

They got a lot of draft capital is my point.

[B]

They do, but I don't think people would. They wouldn't move up that far. What they can do is they can trade those picks for the Bansa Peterson, more picks.

[A]

Caleb Acuff. There's four guys. Right. So anyone after those furries. Buries.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Really good guard.

[B]

Yes. They. I don't even know what, what does OKC need?

[A]

This is what I'm saying.

[B]

That thing they need, the only thing they need, they already get. That's a new arena. They don't need anything else.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. That's what I really thought of watching okc.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I have one for you. Don't take Maxi for granted. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

When I watch the, the, the, the Boston and the Sixers, it's just like. And I obviously I'm in a tough spot because obviously I represent a young man. But when you have someone at that age that is that talented, you know you have to. What Sam did for, for Shea, it looks like there's an ability to do that and you don't want to just be there and those years go by because this is a Real opportunity, a real moment. So I think. And I don't think they are, but that's the headline I get because I see him out there night in and night out. I mean, just throwing it all on the line.

[A]

And the problem he's running into against the Celtics. Rich and this is something you talk about a lot when you're like, the league wants a team full of Scottie Pippens nowadays. The Celtics kind of have that. The Celtics have long switchable defenders everywhere you look. And if you're a 6 foot 4 guard even, which is to me the threshold to not be too short to play defense the way you want is like anything six three, six three, you'd like a little more six, four or over, you feel, okay, well, he won't

[B]

be able to beat them by himself.

[A]

This is what I'm saying.

[B]

Or beat anybody that matter.

[A]

That. That they have guys who have size advantage and length advantage that they can switch.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

That's what makes.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That makes really like Embiid is. Is sorely missed for this.

[B]

But no Embiid, no mb. You cannot. I mean, it's just without Embiid, it's just. It's too tough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, because you have no. There's nobody even draw a double team. They're going to blitz Tyrese off the screen. But. But. Or they could just switch like you said.

[A]

And then the Knicks. Look, we can go over Knicks Hawks real quick. Carl Anthony Towns, as the game wore on, imposed himself increasingly.

[B]

He did.

[A]

And as he did. I mean, the Knicks let them hang around the way the Lakers also let. Like you don't want to let teams hang around. But that was the reason the Knicks had kept control of that game, I feel like is because Cat imposed himself as the game went on.

[B]

I agree with that. I mean, look, Cat is one of those guys where when he's. When he's playing Carl Anthony Town's basketball and he's motivated. He's always motivated. I'm saying he's not in foul trouble or anything like that. He's the best big big. He's the best shooting big man that I've seen on the pop.

[A]

Yeah. I would say probably of all time.

[B]

Yes, he's. So he has that because he's a he.

[A]

You could call him a 4, but he's. You could play him at the 4 or the 5. Like he's.

[B]

He's a 4 or 5. He's.

[A]

He's a 4, 5. He's not a. He's not a 4. Like a. Like just a rebounding power forward or. Or a stretch four. He's more than that because he can

[B]

defend the rim, but he can also put the ball on the floor. See, his jump shot is. He's so good at shooting a three that if he makes one or two in a. If he makes two in a row or three in a row, now he pump fakes to put the ball on the floor. That's not even a dribble for him. That's like a. Just a. Just one step and he's to the basket.

[A]

And you can take a 6 foot 9 center down low and do what

[B]

he has to do. So we said that it's going to be based upon how he forces his will onto the series. I still think Atlanta had moments where they probably let the Knicks off the hook because they were right there in the game. And then they stretched out again. There's a little jitters. You're coming out. It's still the Madison Square Garden. But I think that I wouldn't be surprised if they got game two. They can get it. It's there to get.

[A]

Brunson's impressive.

[B]

When you think about the defenders, he is very impressive.

[A]

You think about the defenders, you have elite. Not just that they have length, but they're elite long defenders. You can't really do anything with him. It's pretty good.

[B]

Yeah, but he also uses his body well. He bumps you. He creates space. He shoots. He shoots the ball at a very high clip.

[A]

And he's sort of like Jokic in the sense that obviously, very different side. But he's difficult to speed up.

[B]

Oh, you're not speeding him up.

[A]

He goes at his rhythm. And so it's almost like Matrixy. Right. Everything's in slow motion.

[B]

But you know what else he is. He simplifies the game. Brunson does not do anything flash.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Does not. He gets to his spots. He creates space. And he shoots it well enough. He draws fouls. He makes those. And in the key moments, he wants it. See, he's not shying away from the moment, which makes the Knicks really good in that regard. He's not shying away. But I. I still think. I'm not surprised by the Knicks winning game one. I expected that. But now that you understand the physicality, you understand the crowd, it takes some getting used to. If you never played in the Garden during the playoff series. So what I would say to the Hawks is, you have to win game two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cause now if you don't now you have to go home and Win both.

[A]

If they don't win game two, it's not going seven.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Knicks will win in six or under.

[B]

Yeah, I would agree.

[A]

You gotta steal one on the road.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are here and everything's on the line. Every possession matters, every bucket swings the game. And tonight is your shot to boost your bet. That's right. All customers get a profit boost tonight. So when the moment hits your win hits bigger. Lock in your bets, boost your odds and make the playoffs. Pay off with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Head to FanDuel.com gameover to get started. FanDuel. Play your game 21 and over in select states or 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued is non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat and catch. Connecticut, I want to play a game with you called bothered or unbothered. Okay. All right. Ready for this?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I want you to listen to what Adam Silver had to say about a guy you may be familiar with. Check this out.

[B]

Let me ask you about my favorite player to talk about. LeBron James. Obviously he's the only player that's ever been given his own patch. A couple of them as he's achieved other things no other players achieved. Have you, has he talked to you guys yet about coming back for one final year? Do you have any insight into his plans in that regard?

[A]

I assume you want him back. You know, I want LeBron to play as long as he actually wants to play.

[B]

I mean, it's, it's not just a

[A]

41 year old player in the league with the most points ever in the most so many different categories, but he's still playing an incredibly high level. It's not like he's just sort of out there.

[B]

It's unfortunate that Austin Reeves got hurt, Luca got hurt because they started playing their best basketball of the year. I got to the three seed before those two guys got hurt. Yeah, but he.

[A]

No, I haven't talked to him since the season ended.

[B]

I mean, I have every indication that

[A]

he plans to keep playing next.

[B]

He does.

[A]

All right, so that's wfan, courtesy of wfn. What do you think of what Adam Silver had to say about LeBron?

[B]

I'm unbothered by that. I mean, look the way he's playing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I hope we get one or two more years. So I'm I'm unbothered by that.

[A]

Didn't sound like he was hoping, though. It sounds like he was getting the sense that. That he's getting signals that it's going to continue. Antenna.

[B]

Well, if somebody should get a signal, it should be Adam. Right. He's a commissioner.

[A]

Right. So unbothered.

[B]

I'm unbothered by that, yes.

[A]

Okay. Are you? I mean, I think it's interesting that if the commissioner is feeling comfortable enough to come out and say that that means that it looks good that LeBron plays next year. Well, I want to do like the Larry David, where he, where he looks at the guy, he's trying to figure it out, but he can't figure anything out, you know?

[B]

Yeah, listen, that's not the. From what I know and what I've learned throughout the years, I wait to see how the movie ends. Uh huh. Yeah. All right.

[A]

Unbothered is the bottom line.

[B]

Yeah. Unbothered.

[A]

Here's a quote from Jeannie Buss. Okay. Okay. This saw this morning, and this relates to what Adam Silver just said. Quote. Well, I've always said I want to see him, LeBron, retire as a Laker, but he's going to be a free agent. It's really his decision to make. He is a valuable player in this league even in his 23rd season. That sounds funny to say in his 23rd season. Maybe he just wants to go out quietly. Bothered or unbothered.

[B]

I'm unbothered by it. But those seem like two different questions that were asked to Jeannie. So she gave two different answers.

[A]

Oh, you think it's been condensed into one?

[B]

Yeah, because the ending was how he wants to go out. That seems like she's responding to him not saying that he doesn't want a. A tour. Right. A retirement tour. And then versus will he retire this year or whatever the case may be. So. But I'm unbothered by it. In. In total.

[A]

First of all, my first thought about this when she says, in his 23rd season, when I was a kid, if I looked at the back of a Jim Cott baseball card, because by the time I was looking at that stuff, Jim Cott the pitcher was like toward the end of his career and there were like 23 or four seasons, I'd be like, damn right. Like, that's never got. You know, and then you never saw that again. And people tend to talk about the old days like these superhuman things happened because the conditions were right for them, and then they're never gonna happen again. But it's not like LeBron played in an era where people usually played 20 years. That's exceptionally rare. And kids, one day, I guess they won't be looking at basketball cards anymore, but they'll go online and they'll look at LeBron's career and it will seem like he must be from an era where that used to happen. But he wasn't. He was people. What Vince Carter played 20 years. It was like, damn, he played 20 years. LeBron not only played 23 years, but as the man. Even if he, even if it's Luka's team this year, he's still one of the, you know, three big players on the team.

[B]

Well, that's why everyone's being really. What I think everyone's being really respectful in how they're trying to approach the value of LeBron. That's what's happening here. Everyone's trying to be as respectful as they can. Because the reality of it is the only reason why you would say, oh, you can't pay a guy like that. The max is age. It's not value to the team. It's not value to the league for sure.

[A]

Do you think he's still a max player?

[B]

Yeah. Value wise, Absolutely.

[A]

So it's. This sounds. So you're unbothered, it seems to me, because Jeannie is negotiating with you. Like, who else is that aimed at?

[B]

She's not negotiating with me.

[A]

She says he's going to be a free agent. It's really his decision to make. Meaning, this is how I hear this. We are gonna present a certain number. He's either gonna want that number or not. And that sounds like she's digging in a negotiating position against you, cuz now you have to counter. And like she's kind of. It's not take it or leave it, but she's hinting at that, that they have a number in mind. Is that a stretch?

[B]

I think everyone, again, is trying to be as respectful as they can because they know his value. They know his. They know he's never been paid his value to the league.

[A]

Right.

[B]

On no team.

[A]

Well, the Lakers have certainly saved money in certain seasons with LeBron because the super duper max contract did not capture all his value. That's not the case anymore, although he's

[B]

still worth a lot.

[A]

But there is an argument to be made also when LeBron eventually says, this is going to be it for me, that's a bonanza financially for any team he's on.

[B]

Of course, that's why you can't there. You can't equate It. Right. And every team will want his last year. Why wouldn't they?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because there's things that you'll be able to monetize on that he can't touch,

[A]

that the CBA won't allow him to.

[B]

So, I mean, we're not idiots.

[A]

So is this, you think, is this like a one year or a two year situation?

[B]

I have no idea. I mean, like I told you before, I don't speak to him about anything until he decides that he wants to talk. I try to give him enough space and let him get with his family and do all the things necessary. Now, this year could be a little bit different. Decided what he wants to do because there's some, some timing issues. But if you, if you go back to when he's always been in this position, I mean, we didn't really come back to anybody until August. Yeah, he would go on vacation and do all those things. I would, I would literally have reporters call me, like, hey, is anything happening? I was like, no, time soon. I'm like, okay, good, I'm gonna take my family on. I'm gonna take my family on vacation and then I'll be back. Okay, good. So I just give him his time.

[A]

You know, it's unfortunate for LeBron. I'm thinking about this now that there's not a basketball record that has to do with compiling numbers the way there is a baseball record. For example, if he were chasing the home run record right back when it was, I don't even know what Bonds wound up with because obviously from the age of 35 or 6 on, that's not the same Barry Bonds as there was before. So I always think of the baseball home run record as Hank Aaron 755. But, like, if there was a player chasing that, he was at 7, 7, 40 or something. And he was, even if he wasn't what he used to be. He's entering his last season, everyone, like, interested, oh, he's going to break the record. LeBron already has all the records. It doesn't help him. There's no, like, there's no, like, carrot there other than winning another champion.

[B]

He breaks a record every game.

[A]

Yeah, there's nothing there. Points record, this record, that record. It would almost help him if there was a carrot there. Right. That he could chase.

[B]

Yeah, I wish we had. You know, like I said, I hate to think about him not playing the game because I just think that he's going to be missed so much. Despite all these people that get on these shows and talk out to Saturday next But I think that he's meant so much to the game. He continues to mean so much to the game. I think there's a world where when you are the face of the league, there's a responsibility that comes with understanding that it is a show, it is entertainment. People come to watch you. Um, and I. And I just think that there'll be a big void there once he's done, once guys like Steph is done, that. Those guys, they understand this, the assignment, and it's not easy. It's not an easy thing. And everybody, Everyone doesn't get that opportunity to where the machine also understands your importance. And they push, you know, but that comes with you delivering.

[A]

Yeah, there's no.

[B]

I mean, like, there's no push without deliverance.

[A]

I don't think there's a universe where someone as great as LeBron is not pushed by the league.

[B]

No, no. It wouldn't make sense.

[A]

It wouldn't make sense. Now, there's another fellow I believe you are familiar with who goes by the name Draymond Green. You ever heard of that guy? I want to know if you're bothered or unbothered by this quote. Okay.

[B]

Uh, oh quote.

[A]

If I'm Anthony Edwards, I would be a little pissed off because, listen, I had an injury too. My knee was messed up. I could not play through it. Forced me to miss more games than Cade. Unfortunately. I think where Anthony Edwards problem lies is it probably falls on his team and their PR staff. Left knee injury management, the whole rule was put in to stop load management. So when you put left knee injury management, that's what the NBA was protecting against with this rule. I think that is what screwed Anthony Edwards.

[B]

Huh? I don't know if I'm. I'm definitely not unbothered by it. I'm bothered by it because I don't know what else they could have actually said, but I am bothered. I'm bothered by the fact that if one player injury was disregarded, then the other player's injury should be trying to figure out. I'm trying to understand.

[A]

I'm trying to figure out what Draymond's point is here. He's saying left knee injury management, the whole was put into stop load management.

[B]

Well, what he's saying is naturally. So when you talk about load management, you would just come up with something to have on the. On the. On the. On the injury report.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Versus it actually being so.

[A]

In other words, when you say using

[B]

the word management, it's the take the word management out. Yes.

[A]

Once they put management in they really cost him money. Yes, Draymond, that's a hell of a point.

[B]

That is a great point.

[A]

It's the use of the word management.

[B]

The use of the word management is

[A]

why he argue it. Right? Or whoever.

[B]

Okay, well, it's not just on his PR stuff.

[A]

Forget about pr. Whoever made the choice to use the word management. They did. They screwed Aunt Edwards.

[B]

Well, yeah, in a way.

[A]

So you're unbothered by what. What Draymond said, but bothered by the. By the. By the fact that the content is true?

[B]

Yes, I'm bothered by that. I'm for the players.

[A]

All right. Unbothered, Unbothered, Unbothered. But then bothered based on. Okay, yeah, you don't see. Not a lot seems to bother you.

[B]

Well, because I don't panic too much about certain things, but I am bothered by that. I'm for the players.

[A]

You're trying to come up with stuff that you might be a little bothered by.

[B]

You gotta do a better job, Max.

[A]

All right, listen.

[B]

Came up with it.

[A]

Listen. All right, here, I'll do a better job. Five minute, Max. It might not even take five whole minutes here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Pablo Torrey found out once again, Scooby Doo is at it again. But this time, unlike the Clippers, where I was like, come on, Pablo, let these guys live their lives. They're just trying to get this guy extra money, right? In this case, there is an actual villain, and he unmasked him. And when, at the end of the Scooby Doo episode, this villain got unmasked, like, they ripped off the James Dolan mask, and underneath the James was James Dolan. It was the same thing. Like, you knew this guy James Dolan. Pablo Torre investigated and found that James Dolan has used. And they have transcripts, text message transcripts of security at Madison Square Garden following and surveilling different people who may have said something against James Dolan in the Garden. They're using facial recognition to figure out who on social media may have had negative posts. These are not threatening posts. These are like, James Dolan should sell the team type posts. Now, if there's a security threat, I get it, but that's not what this is. James Dolan is using surveillance at Madison Square Garden to quiet people who feel that he hasn't done a good job as the Knicks owner. Oh, my God. Like the fact that people aren't more outraged than this. And I understand Donald Sterling lost his team because he was caught on. On audio saying explicitly racist things. But the point is, a precedent was set and I think it was a good one. We don't want that in the NBA. I think Adam Silver treated the players like real partners in that case. And because I was cynical at that time that anything would really happen to Sterling, I thought, they're gonna slap him with a 10 or a $20 million fine, something 5 million, something easy for him to pay, and it'll be business as usual. But he got booted out of the league. And I think part of that was because the players in a largely black league were like, what? No, no. And so I understand this doesn't have that same kind of element of offending labor. Right? But in terms of the fan who actually pays? Everyone. Right? The owners make the money off the fans. The players make their salaries off the fans. You're being served one team, not every team. The Knicks under Dolan, are using technology to surveil and follow, have security follow fans who boo, basically. Not if they boo the team, boo the owner. Because he's so thin skinned, his ego is so fragile, he can't take any kind of criticism in a sports arena. Can't take criticism from fans. That is so outrageous. Rich, I think that the league, before this gets worse, should really consider. The other owners should consider whether they want Dolan as a partner in this syndicate, which is really what the league is, whether they want him to own the Knicks. Because if I were the owner of another team, that's bad now, I know the Knicks are good now. And I'll give, by the way, I'm not just simply attacking Dolan. I've heard from many people who have worked with him that he's loyal, that he's good to them in various ways that say something good about someone's character. And so I understand that. And some people have good relationships with him. I've also heard plenty bad. But I'm not basing this on some kind of personal animus. Just as a kid who grew up as a Knicks fan, where Charles Oakley got escorted out of Madison Square Garden, that'd be like Paul o' Neill or Bernie Williams getting escorted out of Yankee Stadium. Like it would never happen. You know, I was a little kid standing on line with my brother. Literally, the line would go around the block to buy playoff tickets, right? Partly because Charles Oakley was diving on the hardwood for loose balls. You know, like he was a hustler. He made Knicks fans proud. The way he played and the fact that he got escorted from the Garden, I was like, oh, my God, what just happened? But this is actually worse. This is one of the worst things I've ever heard the owner of a professional franchise do in my life, over half a century old. Been watching sports my whole life. This is one of the worst things I've heard an owner do. And I think the other owners in the NBA should really think about the fans and whether they want an owner like this among them. That's my five minute max.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's tough for, obviously, a New Yorker like yourself. Max, that's a very complex situation.

[A]

Is it complex? I think it's pretty simple. Dude. Don't surveil fans who boo you.

[B]

Well, I mean, you can't be a baby.

[A]

Such a. You're such a little. But it's like putting the baby. A baby in charge of, like, advanced surveillance apparatus and security teams. Come on.

[B]

I just don't get into these stories, so I don't know what to believe, what not to believe. League.

[A]

I. Well, I mean, assuming it's true. I mean, I suppose there's always a chance it's not true. Assuming it's true. To me, that's a. That's a. Hey, I'm not saying you take the team away from him, but I think the league should intervene and say, you have to straighten up and fly right or you could lose your team. I think it rises to that level. I haven't heard anyone else saying that. So let me say it. Who's the best player you saw over the weekend?

[B]

The best player I saw over the weekend. I mean, are you counting Wemby?

[A]

Yeah. That's the point, isn't it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's Wemby Shay, who's great and all that stuff. And Jokic.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's Wemby.

[B]

It's Wemby. Yeah.

[A]

Wemby's the best player I saw this season. Wemby's the best player in basketball. I mean, we'll see by the end of these playoffs, but I think he's the best player in basketball.

[B]

I mean, what did he have last night? 35.

[A]

35.

[B]

But it wasn't so much as deployment. I think the whole overall game.

[A]

Yeah, the package, by the way, he's not just spotting up and shooting from three. He's finding his own three.

[B]

And it's a fast break behind the back spin. What he had didn't come back down and made a pull up three.

[A]

He's blocking guys with his feet on the ground. Literally with his feet on the ground.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, he.

[A]

In space.

[B]

He's a special. I've never seen nothing like it. I don't Even understand it sometimes.

[A]

One game, fate of the universe on the line. Right now, it's a Game seven and everything. Jokic or Wemby, the way Jokic can control the game and everything. Or Wemby, both ends of the floor. Because by the way of all the postseason awards, there are only two players that I saw up for two of them. Shea and Wemby are both up for mvp. Shea is also up for Clutch Player of the Year, which is big. That's a big thing. I would say Wemby's also up for Defensive Player of the Year, which is now his. Might as well call it the Wemby

[B]

Award, because I'm old school and I. And I believe defense wins championships. I would.

[A]

I'm taking.

[B]

Do I have to pick one?

[A]

Yeah, I'm taking Wemby. You got one. You have a draft. You can take anyone you want. You're trying to win one game. I know it's tough because the Joker's IQ is so high and we just saw him beat Wemby a couple weeks, a week or two ago, and he can control.

[B]

I'm taking Joker. I'm taking Joker.

[A]

Yeah. For one game.

[B]

Yeah, I'm taking Joker.

[A]

I understand that.

[B]

Yeah. I'm Joker.

[A]

Something else occurred to me watching the

[B]

spurs,

[A]

while we're talking French big men, right? You look at a guy like Rudy Gobert, right? I was talking to Jacoby about this, actually, and it just looks different the way Wemby plays. As I say, he's really a small forward. But not only that, there's something. I know what I'm about to say might sound like, obnoxious toward Gobert because he's a hustling defensive player. And I think there's a tendency to see if you're a really great offense. Luka, great offense player, horrible on defense. So you get kind of slapped with a lazy tag, right? But there's some players who are great defensively and kind of not that good offensively, but they don't get slapped with a lazy tag, right? They get. They get the hustling tag, but actually, in a way. Hey, Rudy Gobert. If you worked on your offense more, you could be a truly great player because you're a great defensive player. Wemby deserves credit for this, Rich. He works so hard on both ends of the floor. His offensive game is obvious, right? And took an incredible amount of work because no one nearly his size has ever looked like him playing offense. But he's deep. He cares so much on the defensive end. That is, like, it's not simply that he's 7 foot 4 that makes him great. There are a lot of 7 footers who aren't doing this. It's that he cares so much on both ends. You know he deserves, Wemby deserves like all the accolades that he's getting. He deserves them including the MVP award this year.

[B]

No, listen, he deserves everything coming his way. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced wi fi, phone, TV, mobile services plus 24. 7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business so visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling? Does this sound like you listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away? Trymphy Guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy. And for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Tremphya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Weathertech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You you don't need Weathertech floor liners in the summer. Unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways. Ketchup goes rogue. Ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Max, the reason why I said I gotta you know these articles that comes out, you don't know what to believe. There's another article that came out about Nike struggling to sell shoes. Yeah, this just sounds preposterous to me. I can't understand how that even.

[A]

Yeah, they're losing market share.

[B]

Yeah, but you have to put things in retrospect. Losing market share just means that things are Starting to balance out. Because for so many years, they probably dominated market share.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Not.

[A]

But they lost that dominant position.

[B]

Of course. Yeah. Because more kids today, first of all.

[A]

I mean, they're still in a dominant position, but not as dominant.

[B]

Here's the thing. You and I grew up. We grew up in a very trending. Trend following society. We followed trends. That's what we did. We grew up having to have the shoe that everybody else also had to have. Right, right. Which is how shoe brands were built. Signature shoe brands were built.

[A]

Jordan Threes had to have them.

[B]

Yeah. They had this discussion about kids not wanting the basketball player's shoes not selling as much as they used to. Of course not.

[A]

Why? Why do you think that is?

[B]

Well, for a number of reasons. One, there's a lot of signature guys. There's so many signature athletes. Every company has a signature guy. Multiple signature guys. Well, there ain't that many kids that want signatures from these gu. Like, they don't want signatures.

[A]

Players are less popular.

[B]

I don't know if they're less popular, but the kids are less into all the things that we were into as it pertain to a player.

[A]

Why do you think, first of all,

[B]

I don't know what else you can do that hasn't already been done in terms of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The style of shoe cost a lot

[A]

of money when we were kids. New stuff was coming out all the time. It's like the dunk contest, where at a certain point it's not like what you can add is very subtle because it's all been done before. Yeah.

[B]

New stuff was coming out, but it was also new.

[A]

Right. It was. We'd never seen anything like new things come out.

[B]

But it's old.

[A]

Yeah. And if it's new, it's in a running shoe, not a basketball.

[B]

Yeah. It's not. There's no new Jordan 4.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's the same Jordan 4 that came out in 1989.

[A]

That's why the most popular kicks are still from a million years ago. So now you have. You have. Or back then, you had a trend that people were following and it was all new. And now a lot of. I think, is what you mean by retrospect. Right. Like, a lot of what draws you to the fashion of the sneaker industry is nostalgia.

[B]

Yes. Well, that's why they call them retros. And the problem is we love to relive our teenage years where things where we thought was the hypest, where we were so excited, the wow factor.

[A]

Every generation, everything.

[B]

These kids today are actually in their Teenage years. They can't relive.

[A]

They're not. How can they be nostalgic?

[B]

Yeah, how can they possibly be nostalgic? So we. Forcing nostalgia on current. They're current. They're living in the moment. We can't force nostalgia on these kids. That's actually living in their moment.

[A]

So. Okay, I'm trying to put a grand unified theory of Rich's sneaker analysis together here, because everything was new back then. We hadn't seen these before.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We followed those trends. And also. And there were certain signature athletes a lot. And by the way, basketball players in the United States dominated the NBA. So it's more relatable to kids growing up in the United States. I mean, I just added that, but I think that's part of it.

[B]

Well, that's what was marketed, too, and it was Mark.

[A]

And now, because everything's been done, a lot of the most popular kicks are retro sneakers.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So for the new generation, they have no nostalgic attachment because they're not old enough to be nostalgic about anything. And they're also not getting anything new because everything new under the sun's already been done.

[B]

Yeah. And they don't care. These kids don't care about the new nothing. They care about what they think is cool. They don't think what we thought was cool is cool. The other thing is this. We didn't used to play basketball in the actual basketball shoe. That was $160. Wore that shoe to school. We. I was on a. My high school team. We wore a team shoe as a team. Some people, obviously the fool I was, and other people was. We wore our Jordans or whatever or pennies or whatever. But we wanted to be a team, so everyone couldn't afford that shoe, so we wore a team shoe.

[A]

Which you don't want.

[B]

Exactly. I wanted to wear my shoe to heights versus Shaker. I'm going to that game as a spectator.

[A]

You don't need them all free stuff.

[B]

And a Cyclops, because I'm looking to beam in on the crowd. I'm not looking to wear this. You know, like, I'm not wearing my team shoe there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm gonna get clowned, but I want to have the fly shoe on today. Basketball players that's actually playing the game as a kid, they're wearing Uggs and they're wearing Crocs to. And after the game, or slides.

[A]

It's unbelievable how bad it all looks. It's unbelievable.

[B]

They don't care about how they look.

[A]

They don't care that's the athlete's fault. The football players are the ones you started seeing in the slides with the socks. And then people thought, okay, you're a football player, you can do it. Every civilians started thinking you could wear slides.

[B]

Even going to school. Max, I wouldn't leave out my door without everything had to be right.

[A]

You got to see my daughter leave the house.

[B]

It don't matter what they put on now.

[A]

I'm used to it. So now I can see with the style in it, like it's not just that she's throwing anything on. There's certain things she's doing even though. But the style of today's kids is supposed to look like a bum.

[B]

Yes, but they dress. They dress how they dress. They dress in high school how actually you dressed when you first got to college because your class was so early. I just put on the first thing I had, pajamas and I run out the door.

[A]

You wear pajamas to school nowadays?

[B]

In high school we did not do that.

[A]

No, you didn't wear pajamas.

[B]

So now if I don't care about what I have on, I cannot tell you the last time. My son, my 18 year old son from the age of 14 to 18, I can count on one hand the shoes he's asked me for and he actually has access to any shoe ever made. Yeah, he could. He, he, he could care less.

[A]

No, no. What they like now is, I won't even say the brand, but there's a brand that makes it looks like old man hospital shoes. Kids can't get enough of those. No.

[B]

Well, I don't know what that is.

[A]

No, there's no, I don't want to say the brand, but there's a certain shoe.

[B]

I tell you what, they do like

[A]

stuff too, but there's a certain shoe they make that intentionally looks like old man hospital shoes. And, and these kids snap those up.

[B]

Yes. I can tell you what they do like comfort.

[A]

Yeah. For sure.

[B]

And cool.

[A]

So New Balance, I think the kids are right. Be comfortable.

[B]

Yeah. But New Balance is the king of that. Yeah, they were always the king of comfort.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We just went for style. You can tell me that your, your foot actually was comfortable in those shoe. Whether he was playing in or standing or walking around in it, it wasn't.

[A]

So now the shoe that was ever more comfortable than New Balance was Ruse.

[B]

Ruse. Yeah.

[A]

Kangaroo. They give you a foot of rubber underneath your foot. It was like bouncing around.

[B]

But. But the running shoe was always the actual shoe of choice.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That was the actual shoe for all brands.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But now These kids have more optionality price point matters.

[A]

So what do you do about it if you're Nike?

[B]

I don't know if I don't know what I mean. That's a much, much bigger conversation, Max. I think this whole idea of where, you know, it gets to the place to where premium where kids couldn't even find the shoes. Right. Or you everybody. The whole point of the what grew brands was everybody could get them.

[A]

Now it's scarcity.

[B]

Yeah. There was a very few people that didn't have them.

[A]

You got to go on the second

[B]

school would have the new Jays and they came out. The whole school would have the new pennies. When they came out, if that was the shoe to go and get, then you went to the scarcity thing which created this, this premium price point. But you know what that also caused? It caused the luxury brands to now go back into streetwear. So now you, you create a whole nother market to where not only am I not wearing this brand of shoe now this luxury brand, the Bottegas and the Louis Vuittons and the Pradas and all these now they also making shoes as well. So you create. It's just, it's just so many options out there that I don't know if if what's happening with Nike's business or not. I mean seems to be doing pretty well to me. That's just me.

[A]

Edwards had an incredible looking sneaker and won a championship or two. And you know, well, he did the one.

[B]

But it's tough to repeat that he had illmatic.

[A]

Yeah, but. Right, but you, but, but you got to.

[B]

It's tough to follow that up. Championships you do, but it's tough to follow that up. I mean listen, being a signature athlete in general, and I always say this, it's, it's not the easiest thing to do and it's very hard to do now because where everyone used to want the basketball shoe, only the kids that's actually playing basketball wants the basketball shoe. So what is that going to do? It's going to cause your, your, your brand number one to be smaller, the business of the brand to be smaller. And if you're not leaning in as an athlete, because now athletes want to do everything else. They want production companies, ventures, I mean they want to do a lot of other things, which I'm not knocking that. But when you have a great partner that's spending media dollars on you, creating awareness, telling your story, you go the other way. You lean in more to that one partner. Because people say, well I Got a lot of marketing. I got 20 different brands.

[A]

The mistake Muhammad Ali made late in his career, he just slapped his name on everything.

[B]

You can't do that.

[A]

Cheapened his brand, Chess burgers and this and that. Whereas like you think of MJ and what do you associate. And he endorsed things. But it was a few very simple of like, of Tiffany brand.

[B]

You know why? Because MJ's not giving you six, seven, eight days in his off season to 20 different brands. And the thing about it is if

[A]

I'm sitting Nike, Gatorade, there's like Nike,

[B]

he had all the champion brands. Nike, Gatorade, Hanes, upper deck. Those were his people. That was it.

[A]

McDonald's. Didn't he do McDonald's?

[B]

Maybe a commercial? Yeah, he. Yeah, I think so, maybe, but not for long.

[A]

He was shooting with Larry Bird in the gym.

[B]

That was McDonald's. Yeah, so that's five. Yeah, but think of who you name.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Hanes, McDonald's, Nike, Gatorade, upper deck. Right. Four of those.

[A]

Don't think about upper deck.

[B]

Yes, but I'm saying, but four of those companies, if you look at their media buy, I guarantee you it was probably in the top three of their verticals for consistent years. So now you're telling, now you can't miss him. And you got, you got to remember he's on tv, national games every and then wgn. So how could you miss him?

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's very smart. You talk about four you two, about four people. I see kids today and this is what's being sold to most athletes. When the athletes sit down, the first thing they want to talk about is marketing. And the first thing these companies are pushing. A lot of them out there are pushing, we could do all this marketing. But the reality of it is you're saying you're doing all this marketing, but these aren't partners. These are a lot of one off things. Six posts, two stories. That's not a partnership, but it's feeding the ego of the athlete. So it makes you feel as if it's a partnership.

[A]

It's hard to say no to short money.

[B]

Right. And when the marketing team from this agency. Agency is sitting in there and saying, look how many deals we've done. Yeah, but it's, but, but there's no real ROI outside of making me feel as if I've arrived. You're not gaining any ground on any of this. You're not building anything per se that can actually be there when you're done playing too.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like Michael still has the Same, obviously, he built a business, but he still had the same sponsors. When he done so will lj, he was still at the same partners. When he's done playing the game.

[A]

Has got. Has got to watch that and imitate that.

[B]

You're saying, well, for example, all athletes,

[A]

just to get Edwards, Jason, Tatum to get there.

[B]

It's a. It's a whole other thing. So what I'm saying is you don't need 20. You actually need, like, two. Right? And then from the two, if you can get to four, if you. Those tier one guys, now, everyone's not gonna be a tier one guy for tier two, three, four, and five. Yeah. Get all you can get. But I'm saying, if you're a tier

[A]

one guy, potential face of the league

[B]

guy, actually build a business. Less is more. I'll say that.

[A]

You should have known where this was going. You know why Today it would have been predictable that we would wind up here. Because you got your chairman hat on.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

If you had. If you had your. Your.

[B]

My agent hat on.

[A]

No, the podcast. What's the podcast?

[B]

Oh, oh, my chief podcast officer had on. Yeah, Chief podcast officer.

[A]

Cpo. If you had your CPO on, I would. But you have your chairman hat on. So we. We're getting.

[B]

You got to give the game, Max. Yeah, you have to give it.

[A]

You want to do an email before we get out here?

[B]

Sure. You want to read or.

[A]

I'm reading it up to you. I mean, you can read it. Terry from Tucson. You're in la. Why did you sign Terry?

[B]

I like that.

[A]

Yeah. Tucson, Terry. Why didn't you guys roll up to Coachella?

[B]

I couldn't get tickets.

[A]

Why didn't you go to Coachella?

[B]

Really, Max, I could. What do you mean?

[A]

Of course you can get tickets. You're rich, Paul. You get tickets.

[B]

No. Do you understand how hard it is to get tickets to Coachella? I'm going to guess that, like, I don't. I want to artist. I want to be.

[A]

You know what you have to do.

[B]

I want to be next to Bieber.

[A]

Let me give you some advice.

[B]

Like, you need to decide to be

[A]

in a relationship with a famous artist. That could probably finagle that for you.

[B]

Why do. Why do I have to go there? I mean, I'm just saying, if all

[A]

else fails, it seems to me you would have to be.

[B]

Listen, I reached out to our music department. I couldn't get tickets.

[A]

Do you know how much you would have to pay me to go to Coachella? As a fan, you'd. How much you'd have to pay me.

[B]

I'm going to tell you why I really would have liked to go to Coachella.

[A]

That sounds like a nightmare to me.

[B]

I. I probably wouldn't have gone to the actual concert.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I would have played golf at the Madison Club.

[A]

It's unbelievable.

[B]

Or. No, no, actually, I take that back. I would have played golf, hopefully at Ladera.

[A]

You know, I got excited playing golf because people I know get so addicted to golf.

[B]

It's. But you know Irving Aoff and Eddie Q. Yeah. They built a golf course.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's called Ladera. Now, I'm not actually good. Good enough to play yet because you have to play on a pace and there's very, very, very few members. But I could. I could probably keep up a little bit now, but from what I'm hearing, it's a really, really, really nice course to play. So that's. If I was going to go out that way, I would have wanted to play Ledera while everyone else goes to Coachella.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. So why didn't we roll up to Ladera is the real question.

[B]

Well, because you don't play golf and I'm not good enough yet.

[A]

I gotta start.

[B]

Yeah, I'll be there in a second.

[A]

Start playing golf.

[B]

I'll be there. Yeah.

[A]

I have plenty of time in my life to start playing golf.

[B]

But.

[A]

Yeah, no time consuming thing.

[B]

But that's why we didn't roll up to Coachella. Coachella's. Coachella's.

[A]

Because the check that I would have to receive in order to even.

[B]

But I did hear. I did hear Bieber. I did hear Bieber really did a great job.

[A]

Well, that everyone's everything for me. If I would have known that everyone

[B]

came back saying Bieber was great. Carol G. Sabrina Carpenter. It was a lot of. It was a lot of people there. Yeah, it was good. Looked like it was a lot of fun.

[A]

Did it?

[B]

It did. Richie went.

[A]

Yeah, right. For Richie. It's good. Teenager.

[B]

Well, no, it's not just teenagers that go.

[A]

But I'm saying but. Right. But if I was a teenager, I would understand.

[B]

Quit being a stiff, Max. Quit being a stiff. Like, you can't just go to boxing matches all the time.

[A]

Oh, it's so good. It's. It's air conditioned. I'm sitting there ringside, I see, you know, the fight, just two guys.

[B]

Of course, you're ringside. You're an announcer.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's great.

[B]

Yeah. I would hope he was ringside. Announcer. Was you gonna be in the bathroom?

[A]

No, no, they're gonna. Yeah, they're gonna have me broadcasting from the nosebleeds.

[B]

No, I just, you know. But yeah, I didn't know about Bieber.

[A]

Now that I know about Bieber.

[B]

No, in all seriousness, Terry, it wasn't something that was offered to me. Tickets are very scarce in that regard. Could you imagine being a manager of an artist at Coachella, headlining, and the request you have for tickets?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

That's why you have to be. You have to appreciate when people do things for you, Max. No, I know I do.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

I try not to go. Granted, I try not to go overboard, because it's not the same. I wish I can give 25 tickets to somebody to a basketball game. I can't. Yeah. Yeah. But for a concert, it's a little bit different because you have back a house, you have all these different things where you can actually accommodate people.

[A]

The number of people there, the heat. Anytime you tell me it looks porta Potty, I'm at out. Don't even. If. If.

[B]

If the porta potty is a deal breaker. It is a deal breaker, but sometimes you gotta. You know what, Max? Let me find out, man. I thought you were, like, Mad Max. You. You're a different Max. You're more like moving on up Max.

[A]

No question. I'm not trying to be out there in Coachella. Nasty. For what?

[B]

You put your boots on, you put your jean, you put your Canadian tuxedo on, you put your scarf around your neck like Mr. Furley. You know, have fun. We actually could have went for a day. We actually could have done the show there. Coachella on a Friday? Yeah. Why not? Play golf in the morning? Show on Friday.

[A]

Gotta get at the golf.

[B]

Yeah. This is what we should do next year.

[A]

All right?

[B]

Play golf in the morning.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'll be a guest on the show by then. We'll play golf in the morning. Friday, I'll be producing. I'll be behind the scenes producing the show. Me and Chels. And what's going to happen is. And. And Michael Price. I'm gonna leave Michael Price out because I know he'll get on me after the show. We'll be producing the show. I'll come on guest appearance. We'll have you on there. Okay. We'll bring the artist a rundown from Coachella.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That'll be great. That's fine.

[A]

No porta Potties, though, right?

[B]

No, we'll have you. No, you have a porta pot. We'll get you a trailer.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Actual real trail. You Have a bed in there.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Barber.

[A]

Main thing.

[B]

Catering.

[A]

Main thing is air conditioning and an actual bathroom. And then I'm good. I don't care where I am, actually,

[B]

tell you the truth, there's ways to do things, Max. Yeah. I keep telling you, just like you went to the geek Squad, you didn't know what was going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That could have been done a lot smoother. Yeah, you just had to listen to me.

[A]

Yeah. You're living a very smooth existence, but I also don't employ 15,000 people.

[B]

True.

[A]

Yeah. Wherever you go, everything's.

[B]

Here's what we'll do. Already put your credit card on file with the office. We'll take care of everything else. Sure. Yeah, I'll give you that as a client.

[A]

All right. I love that. That's done.

[B]

That's awesome. Easy. Okay, good.

[A]

All right, I'll see you on Wednesday.

[B]

Wednesday, we're talking draft, draft, NFL draft. We do our mock draft.

[A]

And I gotta. I gotta. I gotta say something about this. I won't do it on this show, but this Dexter Lawrence situation with the Giants. Gonna do that on Wednesday.

[B]

Are you upset?

[A]

I have certain feelings.

[B]

You want me to pay him?

[A]

I have certain feelings about it.

[B]

How did I know this will come back to your job?

[A]

Of course it does. I have certain feelings about that whole situation. I'm gonna make them know they got

[B]

two first round picks. They did what you asked them to do.

[A]

Well, they got one first round pick for Dexter Lawrence, but I. I don't want to. I. I'll get to it on Wednesday. I'll get to it on Wednesday.

[B]

Okay. You'll be back to Mad Max. Okay. Yeah.

[A]

All right. All right. Game over with Max Kellerman, Rich Paul. Game [e-mail] 21 and over in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchatinconnectic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried this summer. It's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer@color columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome, Columbia. Engineered for whatever.