NFL Preview, Leftover Lakers Thoughts, And How to be the Face of the League

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul: Episode Summary

Episode Overview

Date: January 23, 2026
Hosts: Max Kellerman & Rich Paul
Main Themes:

• Zufa Boxing launch and the potential of organized boxing
• Drama and speculation around the Lakers, LeBron James, and Clutch Sports
• NFL Conference Championship preview & Patriots discourse
• Deep dive: What it takes to be the Face of a League

This episode weaves together light banter, behind-the-scenes sports industry insight, and nuanced takes on current sports narratives. Max and Rich offer perspectives from sports media and agency sides, emphasizing authenticity, reputation, and the business behind superstar athletes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Zufa Boxing Launch: A New Era for Boxing ([00:57]–[04:44], [65:02]–[66:38])

• Max is in Las Vegas to call the first Zufa Boxing event, likening its launch to key moments in combat sports and the rise of the UFC.
• Zufa Boxing aims to bring structure to boxing, akin to what UFC did for MMA.
• Rich: "Zufa, to me, for boxing, is basically taking the transactional mindset out… Let’s put infrastructure in place, branding, marketing storytelling… do right by the fighters themselves, and it’s going to be great." ([03:44])
• Both agree: If boxing had UFC-style organization, it would thrive and settle the chaos that’s held the sport back.
• Rich wants in: "I need to be a part of Zufa in some kind of way." ([03:19])

2. Lakers, LeBron, and the Clutch Narrative ([05:50]–[27:47])

• Discussion of a recent article stirring up drama around LeBron and the Lakers, which Rich feels was clickbait and had little true substance.
• Rich on LeBron’s move to LA:
  • "There was really nothing that said, hey, there’s any pressure for us to do anything." ([07:13])
  • Emphasizes authenticity and “blocking out the noise” in decision-making for himself, LeBron, and Clutch.
• Max details the Lakers’ difficult years before LeBron, the impact of organizational turmoil, and the significance of LeBron turning the team around.
• Rich: "We don't come from that place… When the decision was made to come, it came from a very authentic place." ([14:16])
• Discussion of Clutch’s reputation and the business of player representation:
  • "Anyone that’s ever worked with me will tell you it’s not just about players I represent. I can help." ([14:27])
  • "If we had all this power, then Tyronn Lue would have been the head coach." ([15:05])
• Lakers championship in the bubble: Rich points out how many Clutch clients contributed, underscores positive relationships with Jeanie Buss, and downplays negative media narratives.

3. The AD (Anthony Davis) Trade Rumors and Agency Games ([17:27]–[26:49])

• Max and Rich confront recent "fake news" rumors about Anthony Davis being traded to the Mavericks.
• Rich: "This is the power of the internet. That was aggregated… When you have a player that is on a team, it's not like you want guys to move just for the sake of being moved." ([18:09])
• Discussion of the “game” played by rival agencies — feeding clippings to players’ families to create doubt or open opportunities.
• Rich on handling trade rumors: "If I'm going to demand something, I'm going to put my name on it. Right? So if you don't see my name or I don't need a source, I am the source." ([21:51])
• Insights into representation: Making sure players are positioned and paid, irrespective of the franchise.
• Business logic behind NBA trades — timelines, payroll, tax, roster construction.

4. NFL Championship Preview & the "Patriots Luck" Discourse ([27:47]–[44:27], [62:44]–[64:44])

• Max’s take: The Patriots continue to get lucky with opposing teams’ quarterbacks being unavailable. Offers historical context, noting the weak QB competition faced during Brady’s tenure ([31:46]–[35:55]).
• Rich counters: "That's unfair to the Patriots because they can't decide the personnel of other teams..." ([33:59])
• Lively back-and-forth about whether the Patriots are “fortunate” or simply “doing their job.”
• In-depth preview of Rams vs. Seahawks—analysis of third down defense, QB play (Stafford’s career turn), and the critical role of special teams ([37:33]–[43:20]).
  • Notable: Rich gives major props to Matthew Stafford’s wife for her role in his success. ([38:41])
• Coaching conversation: Sean McVay’s potential legacy if he reaches third Super Bowl before age 40 ([43:20]).
• Final NFL Picks: Both pick Patriots and Rams to make the Super Bowl ([62:44]–[64:15]).

5. Whiteboard Topic: How to Be the Face of a League ([46:10]–[62:44])

The Progressive Path:

• Step 1: Become the unquestioned franchise player — not just numbers, but production tied to winning and responsibility off the court.
  • "There's responsibility... professionalism, perception, how you treat everyone in the organization... the business side leans on you." ([49:18])
• Step 2: Acceptance of responsibility — leadership, media duties, event participation, authentic motivation.
• Step 3: To be league face, you must win big: "You have to be in that conference finals, finals space pretty much every year... All the eyeballs are on you." ([52:10])
• Step 4: Big brands & the league rely on you. Partnerships matter. Not just endorsements, but right partnerships, and readiness for the spotlight and promotional activities.
• Step 5: Eventually, you must win a championship — "In order to be the face of the league, you eventually have to win... a championship." ([53:51])

Historical Faces of the NBA

• Bird & Magic → MJ → Shaq/Kobe → LeBron (Steph Curry briefly)
• "Hasn't been many." ([54:49])

Who's Next?

• Is Victor Wembanyama (Wemby) a candidate? Max: "Could a 7-foot-6 dude be the face of the league?" ([57:23])
• Rich: "I'm not putting any limitations on anything or anybody. Yes. Why not? Face of the league... people come out to see you." ([58:02])
• Takeaway: The 'Face' need not look like or follow the journey of the previous generation.
  • "The mistake is to think that the next guy journey has to resemble the last guy's journey. Sure, that's the problem we have in sports, especially in basketball." (Rich, [59:13])

Basketball’s Global Position

• Basketball is "the evolution of soccer" as a global sport — easier to export because its structure mirrors soccer in accessible ways ([59:36]–[62:11]).
• Wemby as a symbol of where the league and the sport are going globally.
• Pyramid: Stars, franchise faces, handful become THE Face.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On boxing finally getting its 'league':

  • Max: "[The UFC]–the brand is so strong it means the sport. My hope has always been...that would happen in boxing one day. This is the first step." ([02:35])
  • Rich: "That's all [organizational unity] was ever missing. Zufa, to me, for boxing, is basically taking the transactional mindset out of boxing..." ([03:44])

• On media narratives and representation:

  • Rich: "We don't come from that place... I base things on what people do and how I'm treated, regardless of what somebody ever had to say." ([09:11])
  • Max: "LeBron got to LA, he turned the circus into a Broadway show." ([12:20])

• On handling agency rival games:

  • Rich: "My competitors take these things... and they feed this to families to try to discourage... This is the game that's played." ([20:21])

• On being “the face of the league”:

  • Rich: "There's a lot of responsibility that comes with being the face of the league… Before you can become the face of the league, you have to be the franchise player on your own team. That takes a lot." ([47:56])
  • Max: "To be the franchise player...you have to put up numbers in the service of winning." ([48:11])
  • Rich: "The mistake is to think the next guy journey has to resemble the last guy’s journey. That's the problem we have in sports, especially in basketball." ([59:01])

• On basketball’s global growth:

  • Max: "Basketball takes the template of soccer and improves upon it... It is easier to grow basketball internationally than any sport." ([61:24])

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Important Timestamps

• Zufa Boxing launch / Max’s excitement: [00:57]–[04:44], [65:02]–[66:38]
• Lakers/LeBron/Clutch drama & Buss family: [05:50]–[27:47]
• Handling AD trade rumors & agency games: [17:27]–[26:49]
• Rams vs. Seahawks preview & McVay coaching legacy: [37:33]–[44:27]
• What it takes to be THE Face of the NBA: [46:10]–[62:44]
• NFL Picks: [62:44]–[64:44]

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, irreverent, insightful — Rich is careful, open, and principled about his work; Max is bold and thoughtful, often challenging sports myths with data and stories.
• Lots of inside-baseball (and basketball) references, light teasing, and grounded wisdom from both.

Ideal for listeners wanting a mashup of sports news, industry context, and authentic conversation on the forces shaping leagues, teams, and stars.

Transcript

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[Max Kellerman]

Rich, what are you doing on your cell? We're starting the show.

[Rich Paul]

What are you doing in Reno? Because I'm in Vegas and you're not here.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, nice try. You know, I figured we were supposed to be in Vegas. You're in la. And I realized I was thinking like, what's Rich got to. I know what it is. I know why you're in la. It's so obvious. Rich, I know you said something. You have a course you can play at some point today that you weren't trying to miss first. I was thinking, yo, Clutch might have some big business. This network. This dude is not in LA for business. He's got to play.

[Rich Paul]

Actually, I'll tell you what it was. Yeah, I thought about it and he was like, I got to go to Vegas. I'm like, I'm going to Vegas with Max, right? And then I'm like, actually, let's let Max go to Vegas. Let's let him think that I'm gonna meet him in Vegas. And the reality of it is I'm just gonna stay in LA and we'll have a great show. And yes, I can play a few holes. Listen, but you can't be mad at that. Listen, I get up every morning at 5:30, I do my calls.

[Max Kellerman]

I know, but I packed certain things for Vegas. Think, thinking that we're going to be on a set, they're going to see us from head to toe.

[Rich Paul]

You see, knew that wasn't going to happen because I got a little birdie told me that it wasn't going to be any head to toe.

[Max Kellerman]

Different. You're talking to different birdies. Hey, listen, you know what I'm doing in Vegas, right? What I'm, I'm actually like legitimately very excited about this is Zufa. Boxing is starting and Rich, I've been waiting my whole life for boxing. You know when people are like, hey, you know what they should do in basketball? There are a million basketball leads. When they say they, they're talking about Adam Silver. You know when they say they, they're talking about Roger Goodell. There's never Been a they in boxing. The ufc there is like, UFC and MMA mean the same thing. Right. If you hear someone say ufc, it means MMA the way band aid means a bandage. The brand is so strong. It means the. The sport.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

And. And my hope has always been, since I was a little kid, that that would happen in boxing one day. And this is the first step. Zufa won. Right. Like, if someone said, hey, do you remember where you were when you saw UFC 1? Cause I bought that pay per view back in the day. But this is not on pay per view. This is just, you know, oh, this is Paramount.

[Rich Paul]

Plus, this is that new boxing league.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. And I'm calling the fights tonight.

[Rich Paul]

You know, this was brought a couple years back. This is. This is a good idea. This is a good idea.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, man.

[Rich Paul]

And I, you know, I need to be a part of that. I need to be a part of. Who do I have to get on the call?

[Max Kellerman]

Dana, you're on the call with me now. I'll set it up.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I need to be a part of Zufa in some kind of way. I do think that's going to be pretty cool.

[Max Kellerman]

Could you imagine if boxing had the same organization as MMA with the ufc?

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's all it was ever missing. That's all it was ever missing.

[Max Kellerman]

That's exactly right. See, this is why Rich has to be a part of Zufa, because the way you just put it, that's a bar right there, Rich.

[Rich Paul]

That's all it was ever missing.

[Max Kellerman]

That was ever missing.

[Rich Paul]

Zufa, to me, for boxing, is basically taking the transactional mindset out of boxing, because what that did was that caused us to not have some of the great fights, because people made it about the. The transaction of the business. And this is saying, hey, let's put infrastructure in place, let's put branding in place, let's put marketing storytelling in place. Let's do right by the fighters themselves, and it's going to be great. Yeah. This is like.

[Max Kellerman]

Could you imagine if the Rams and Seahawks were like, I don't want to schedule that game. And the Rams were like, give us the Giants right now, and that'll be our. That'll be our conference champion. That's right. This is. That's what it's like.

[Rich Paul]

This is going to be great.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. We're going to. We're going to get into Rams and Seahawks and, of course, the Patriots and Broncos. I'm. I'm going to. Patriots fans, I'm going to have to rage, bait you a little bit today because. But it's my honest opinion, but. All right, listen. We have a lot to get to and Rich, we have to start with you. You're the A block today.

[Rich Paul]

Why? No, I'm from D block. D block.

[Max Kellerman]

But you're a block.

[Rich Paul]

No, but today you're a blocks called Jada.

[Max Kellerman]

Today you're a block.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, I'll be a block. What you got?

[Max Kellerman]

All right, well, we got it started with the A block. Let's pay some bills.

[Rich Paul]

Let's pay some bills.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over is presented by fanduel. Fanduel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com gameover to get started. 21 and over and present in select states or 18 and over and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. You're gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInContinue. Rich, you are in the news a lot this week.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not in the news.

[Max Kellerman]

You are in the.

[Rich Paul]

That is not true.

[Max Kellerman]

Your name. You are in the news.

[Rich Paul]

First of all, let me guess. Sources says.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. Sources. Sources, yes. Let me say something. On Wednesday on the pod, you said at a certain point, we were talking about an article and you said, max, you haven't read the article. Because I was using it as a jumping off point to talk about the Lakers and how things were and how LeBron changed it and all this stuff. And also, and really about the Buss family and how, you know, my whole theory about Dr. Buss left the team to try to keep his family together. That's why he put them in all these positions. And it didn't work out. And I used the Chris Paul trade to explain how it didn't work out. Mitch and Mitch Kupchak and Jim Buss make this trade for Chris Paul. They don't communicate with Jeannie, who's in New York. She could have told them, hey, the temperature in the room, guys, this is not going to look good. Let's just finesse this a little. But because that didn't happen, the league undid the Chris Paltry. And I got into all that. But part of, part of the article was about LeBron James. And Rich, I read the article. It's not really about LeBron James. It really is an article about the Buss family. And in the middle of the article, they insert a little thing about.

[Rich Paul]

About.

[Max Kellerman]

There's like a little insert on LeBron James, which seems to me to be clickbait. So, like, where are you on all this?

[Rich Paul]

I'm nowhere. Here's what I say. And I want to close the door on this. It was a slow news cycle, man. Slow news week. The way the way business works is, you know, you had the Lakers playing the Clippers Thursday night, so there was no trades happening around the league. And this is an opportune time to drop this article that really had nothing to do with me or nothing to do with him. I mean, at the end of the day, what I will say is this. When we decided to come to la, obviously LJ made the choice. There was really nothing that said, hey, there's any pressure for us to do anything. Right? Just came back from 3:1, everyone seemed to think they knew why he was coming to la. Everyone thought, every platform thought they had the reason why he was coming to LA. And he wanted to be the 69 Denzel Washington, which wasn't true. And when you have someone like Magic who was in the seat and you respect our legends, like I talked about the other day and given to where when the decision was made to come, there was a lot of phone calls that I got and texts like, why? For different reasons. But we've always been people to block out the noise. We've always been people to focus on what's in front of us. And, you know, if we say we're gonna do something, we do it. And in this case, you know, there was conversations had and there was promises made. And I think those promises was made good on. Despite what anybody had to say. You know, there's Ms. Mims, there's Gloria, there's. There's Kathy, and there's Minerva. Those are the mothers of the four of us.

[Max Kellerman]

And when you say the four of us, who you're referring to?

[Rich Paul]

Me, Mav, Bron and Randy. And we were raised right. I'm never gonna sit here and be disrespectful to nobody. Under no circumstance, regardless what was supposed to be said about anything at the same time. Cause as you can see, I, um. I'm not sitting here with dentures. There's no dentine in front of me. Um, maybe a few implants, but not dentures. But the point is, for me, when you think about the relationship and when you think about how people like to have drama, that's not. That's just not who we are. And so it's not so much as about what somebody was supposed to have said. I base things on what people do and how I'm treated regardless of what somebody ever had to say.

[Max Kellerman]

Are you referring to the genie quotes.

[Rich Paul]

In the article that I'm referring to what they said or not quotes?

[Max Kellerman]

But yeah, that wasn't quotes what was claimed that she said in the article.

[Rich Paul]

And I never felt that sentiment. Still don't feel that.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich, let me say something, okay? Because I was here before LeBron got to town. Before he got to town, I was here. LeBron and I left and then LeBron got there. But as I always tell you, I was there when KCP got to town. And the buzz in LA was oh, does this mean that the, the, the groundwork is being laid for LeBron? And everyone was extremely excited like the idea that there that the Lakers would have a good relationship with Clutch. Everyone was excited. The only people who hated a little bit where like there are Lakers fans and then there are sports, strictly Kobe fans and Kobe fans feel competitive with LeBron. That's a whole separate dynamic. But let me tell you, LeBron got to LA. He turned the circus into a Broadway show. It was a circus before he got here, before he got to la. I, I lived, I lived it. I went through the whole thing. I was on the air with Marcellus Wiley, Max Marcellus 710 ESPN Radio, the biggest radio show in town. Rich and we were, were broadcast partners of the Lakers. I was at the games. I was in the locker room once. Look, I was there for. Okay, they had Dwight Howard. Like I just want to take people back in their minds for a second to remember this story and what happened as Dr. Buss bequeathed the team to his children. He passed it along and then he passed sadly because I was a big Dr. Buss fan. The team had at one point Kobe Bryant, Pal Gasol, Dwight Howard and Steve Nash. And there were big expectations. This was not far removed from their three trips to the finals with back to back championships. It's a couple years removed and they're going to get back at it and they're going to be right there. Rich. They were, they brought in Dantoni. He was the wrong fit for the personnel. It got so bad that Kobe Bryant basically staged a mutiny. These, this is my interpretation of what happened. But dude, I was there. He basically staged a mutiny. Wouldn't run Dantoni's system because they weren't going to make the playoffs. And Kobe willed them into the playoffs. He played Himself, he refused to come out of games. He played himself 40 plus minutes a game for several weeks until they were a playoff team. And then his Achilles went. And when his Achilles went, remember, they undid the Chris Paul trade. Now it's Kobe, no Achilles. Jeannie handed him a $50 million contract for a year. And everyone's like, wait, what just happened? We were about to. We were about to have cap space. But she was loyal to Kobe. She wanted to show, I think, signal to. To guys like you. Hey, if you have a client like LeBron James, this is the way we treat our own. Right? She was trying to show people how the Lakers do it. But meantime, the team was not competitive. Kobe's last game, which was amazing notwithstanding, he took all the shots. He couldn't move anymore. He had nothing around him. The team was awful. They couldn't attract free agents, Nothing. If you would have told a Lakers fan, a real Lakers fan at that moment, do you know LeBron James is going to be here? We would have lost our minds. We were hoping and praying that LeBron was like, oh, my God, could you imagine? We'd have taken half a LeBron James. You give me Jimmy Butler and someone else back then and Lakers fan, but LeBron James, and then the fact that he got to town and won a championship like it is, it's unbelievable that that is not perceived by anyone as anything less than a resounding success.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but. And again, this is why I'm. Again, like I said, I'm appreciative. I never got this sentiment that they were accusing something. And the reality of it is, you know, all these articles are written and people go on their platforms and things like that. I think a lot of people use it as an opportunity to, you know, I'm gonna say something that I always wanted to say or continue to pile on or whatever, but we don't, like. We don't come from that place.

[Max Kellerman]

And when you say we, who you're referring to?

[Rich Paul]

I'm talking about myself. I'm talking about lj. I'm talking about Mavericks. Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

The clutch team.

[Rich Paul]

Well, they're not. All right.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm saying the LeBron team.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. You know, I play a role. We all play different roles in that regards, but we don't come from that place. When the decision was made to come, it came from a very authentic place. Hey, I want to live in the city. I want to play for. For. For this team, despite what anyone has to say. And the other thing is, we believe. I definitely believe in my ability to Help any team, whether that's. Go out and get players that I represent or players that I don't represent. I'm a basketball mind. At the end of the day, I'm a basketball mind. And anybody that's ever worked with me will tell you that it's not just about players I represent. I can help.

[Max Kellerman]

But you would do this for other players. If you have a player that you do represent on a given team or a team that that player may wind up on, you would want to help facilitate that team getting better and fitting with. Fitting in with your player and your player fitting with him so that the team gets better, because it's just better.

[Rich Paul]

For everyone, because that's what really representation should be. I can't sit here and say, okay, we have a. And that goes for all players. If you talk to any GM around the league, they'll tell you Rich knows basketball. Rich is not just sugarcoating about his player or any other player. You know, he wants to help us be better. Obviously, I don't have the decisions. And when you talk about the power, if that was the case, if we had all this power, then Taron Lou would have been the head coach. The first.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, Rich, even the Lakers right now. Even the Lakers right now are pretty good. Oh, they're scuffling. They're this. That they're above.500. They have been without LeBron for a lot of the early part of the season. They have been without Austin Reaves recently. Luka's missed games here and there, and they're still above.500 in an extremely competitive conference. Yeah, listen, even though LeBron's over 40 and like, I mean, but.

[Rich Paul]

But it's.

[Max Kellerman]

They're still doing pretty good.

[Rich Paul]

But I'm. But I just want to help people understand how this stuff comes about. And it's so crazy. I forgot all about this article was brought to me two months ago. May maybe more. I forgot all about it because I'm like, I'm not even. Oh, and this is the article. Like, okay, great. And when you talk about just how things work, work. This really had nothing to do with us, per se. And I don't get into anybody's family issues. I think they have a billion of ways to figure it out. But I can only go by how I was treated and how we were treated, and that's been great. And it'll continue to be great. And I'll continue to go. I'm a basketball fan. I own seats. You know, it's like, I think people get so obsessed with the drama of it all. And I'm like, listen, man, this is like. This is like the. The media. The media circus of it all is like me riding the. The. The space mountain. It's like media mountain in the Disneyland of the. Of the NBA.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, since you bring that up, that's not the only reason you're in the news right now. There's others. Listen, I'm gonna quote from an article. Tim McMahon's article. Okay.

[Rich Paul]

Ready? No, no, Max. Fake news.

[Max Kellerman]

It's fake news.

[Rich Paul]

So here's the thing. If you are wondering, why does Rich Paul have.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm sorry. And by the way, excuse me. It wasn't an article. He said it on tv. This. Can I quote what was said on tv? You want to hear what he said on tv?

[Rich Paul]

I don't need to. No, I know what was said. I know what was said.

[Max Kellerman]

It involves Anthony Davis and trade.

[Rich Paul]

But what I'm saying is that was. That thing was aggregated, right? This is the power of the Internet. That was aggregated.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, it is very aggravating. I can imagine.

[Rich Paul]

If you're wondering why Rich Paul has a podcast, this is part of the reason why. Now, do I have to podcast responsibly? Like you have to drink responsibly? Yes, I'll podcast responsibly. Okay, fine. But the reality of it is that's fake news. When you have a player that is on a team, it's not like you want guys to move just for the sake of being moved.

[Max Kellerman]

If a guy is KD and the Mavericks is what we're talking about, right?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. If a guy is happy where they are. Great, happy. You care about people's families, you care about the guy's well beings, and you care about if they're happy. Now, from a business perspective, you want guys to be positioned and you want guys to be paid. I really don't care where the money comes from. The money can come from the 31st team of the NBA for all I care. It doesn't matter. Long as my guy is positioned and paid, that's the job I want to do.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, if AD is on the Mavericks next year, he's in a very good spot.

[Rich Paul]

Great.

[Max Kellerman]

If it's him and Kyrie gets healthy and Cooper Flag keeps developing and they got draft capital, they might mess around and win a chip. I mean, it could happen.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, idea that I don't want a player somewhere. That's not true.

[Max Kellerman]

But also, Rich, what's crazy to me is everyone in the league is speculating that the Mavericks Might deal ad, just like there was speculation about Giannis out of Milwaukee.

[Rich Paul]

But if you know business, then you see it, right? So I don't. What's understood don't have to be explained. But this is what I'm saying to you, Max, and this is what happens to me. See, here's what happens, okay? I'm the only one whose name is in the news, right? Great, I'll take that. But what happens is it's good for the pot, I guess, great for the pot. What happens is my competitors, this is what happens to me. My competitors takes these things and do you know, they give this type of stuff to families. This is what happens in our industry. Now. I don't do it. And none of my. None of my, My. My agency.

[Max Kellerman]

Your side of the street is clean.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah, we don't. This is stuff. We just don't do this stuff. But this is what happens to me now. Before it would happen years ago, like you was here in la, I wasn't focusing on. On la. I was focusing on building a business. And so I had my head down building a business. But before that would happen and it would be discouraged to families, right? So it's like, oh, now not so much because the train is rolling, but it doesn't stop them from doing it. Every major representation agency that are competitors in our space, outside of a few, they do this. They take these clippings and they take these. Whether it's a shoe drop, whether it's this player left this thing or whether it's something like this. And they feed this to families to try to discourage. This is the game that's played. Now, luckily for me, I'm not even playing that game, so it's fine. But this is what happens. So when you wonder why I have a podcast, well, I think it's actually beneficial because you get to actually hear it from the horse's mouth. There's no source. If you remember. And this is why the fake news article didn't make any sense. If you remember, I was once fined $50,000 for coming out publicly and demanding something. If I'm going to demand something, I'm going to put my name on it, right? So if it. If you don't see my name or I don't need a source, I am the source.

[Max Kellerman]

When you were a source for me, at first, you know, I listened to what you have to say, then I saw how things played out. But over time, if you told me something, I could talk about it as though it were true, because I never got Burnt. I never felt like you told me something that I said on tv and then later on I found out A, that it wasn't true or B, that there was a part of it that was true, but really it was meant to position me in order to deliver a message. So I never got positioned. You know, a lot of people in the business who people use as sources are trying to position people in the media who are used as useful idiots. Right. They can deliver their message sometimes unwittingly to help them position a client or whatever, whatever. But, but I never got burnt with you, so I. So. And you have some sources like this, if you're in the media where, you know, if they tell you something, their word is good, they're not going to, they're not going to spin you in a certain way that's going to make you look bad later. So you can just use what they tell you.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, but, and, and the other thing, I'm also in a position where I respect the business and the industry enough, and I know it enough to be able to say something to you. And even if you did have somewhat of doubt once you start to do the calculation, okay, that, that, or if.

[Max Kellerman]

You had something tell me that you. That I couldn't, you'd say off record, hey, let's talk off record. And then you just give me some background and we talk off record.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but the way.

[Max Kellerman]

There's a right way to go about this, Stu.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, but to educate the listeners the way things works as you're pertaining to trades, everything is based upon a timeline. If your best player is 25 years old, you're going to try to build a team around that timeline, age, et cetera. If your best player is 19 years old.

[Max Kellerman]

Cooper flag.

[Rich Paul]

Same thing. So if your best player is 33 years old, then probably not so much because you still want to be younger, but now you want to have young players that understand how to embrace a role and understand how to play the game at a high level. Right. So teams are looking at their roster. They're looking far out into their forecasting of what could be who I have to pay. How can I, you know, do we. It's a cover Bare. Is our pantry bare? Do we have draft capital? If we don't, how do we take. How do we clean? How do we take players first of all and maybe be able to move them out to get draft capital in? At the same time, can we get draft capital and clean up our books a little bit? Right.

[Max Kellerman]

And so that's why the Mavericks in Such an interesting position because. And why you said when AD got hurt, hey, they played in traffic. You know, if you, you have to make a decision what you want to do. But from your point of view, I imagine that if AD gets traded, great, he'll, you know, he'll be traded to somewhere that wants to win. Because otherwise why are you acquiring AD at his age with his money? It's because you think you that that's the missing piece and it can put you over the top.

[Rich Paul]

And if he stays in Dallas, great, great.

[Max Kellerman]

And by the way, because what you said, Cooper flags on a different timeline than AD and Kyrie, obviously at the same time, he's so good at his age and he's being paid so little because he's on his rookie deal where you want to. And the Mavs have draft capital and it's going to be better than it should be because Kyrie is hurt that next year, next year they could. Next year, if AD is on the Mavs and Kyrie is healthy, they will be one of the teams who, if they stay healthy, could easily win the championship.

[Rich Paul]

So it's legit.

[Max Kellerman]

You have that he could either stay or go from their point of view.

[Rich Paul]

Mind the other contracts too. And you also have to keep in mind, are you all this stuff comes down to how much of a tax are you actually willing to pay. I just saw Mark Lasari on a show the other day and he said, as an owner of a team, you have two choices to make. Do you want to make money or do you want to win? Those were his words, not mine. I've never owned a team. He has. And so for me, in my position as the representation, Joe Lacob wants to win. Joe Lakob wants to win.

[Max Kellerman]

Joe Lacob wants to win. He'd love to make money, I'm sure, but he wants to win.

[Rich Paul]

When the Cavaliers went on that four year run to the finals, Dan, I tipped my hat to the man. He gladly paid the tax, but his team was winning. They were going, they were competing for a championship every year. Now sometimes you can do that and not pay as big of a tax, but at the end of the day, all this is business. But the articles and things, it was just a slow news day. Can we really.

[Max Kellerman]

You want to move off? Yeah, we can because we got some NFL to get in.

[Rich Paul]

I had this Steve Largent jersey on.

[Max Kellerman]

See that?

[Rich Paul]

Because one thing Steve Largent did is he moved the chains. Move the chains. At the end of the day, we have been treated great. We will continue to be treated Great. I am so happy that Jeannie was able to do what she done. And the value of the team went up, and they did the biggest, sold.

[Max Kellerman]

It for $10 billion.

[Rich Paul]

And here's the thing. I'll close it on as governor. She won the championship, right, with two guys leading the show. One name was LeBron James. The other name was Anthony Davis. That team also had four other clutch clients on that team. So it was six out of the 14, whatever the case may be. And we enjoyed ourselves in the bubble. We enjoyed that season. And they won.

[Max Kellerman]

If I were you. If I were you, Rich, I would.

[Rich Paul]

That is a beautiful thing. That's.

[Max Kellerman]

If I were you, I would simply say, hey, a thank you don't have to thank us, but a thank you would be appreciated. You're right. You're not making this up. And I saw it before. You and I were really dealing with each other a lot. Before we had any idea to do a pod together or a show together. Before I was on First Take or anything like that. When I was in la, I saw it from. From, like, that point of view. If anyone would have told us back then, hey, Clutch is going to help bring AD and LeBron to the Lakers, and it's going to result in a championship. If I were you, I'd be sitting there going, hey, a simple thank you would be appreciated. You don't have to. But.

[Rich Paul]

But. But here's. You know, I don't. I don't. Max, I don't need to thank you because I'm shown to thank you every time I walk in the building. It's not about what you say, it's about what you do. And it's the same way as it pertains to when LeBron left and went to Miami. Right. The Cavaliers drafted Tristan Thompson, 4. The year before that, they lost 36 games in a row.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

I was at every game, by the way. I lived in Cleveland. I was there. On that championship team in 2016, there was three clutch clients. Those three clutch clients, one being LeBron. Do you know who the other two were?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, Tristan. And.

[Rich Paul]

This is going to be a tough one for you to get, but you'll get it. It's easy.

[Max Kellerman]

It's easy. Was K.C. no, hold on. No, no, no.

[Rich Paul]

2 Guard, shooter. Athletic, lot of tattoos. Sometimes he wears a shirt, sometimes he don't. J.R. right, J.R. now, let's look at the production. Tristan was a guy that T. Lou loved. You know why? Because he can switch one through five. He wasn't the tallest. He wasn't the you know, he, he didn't shoot threes and things like that, but when you look in the box score, 15 and 15, 16 and 16, 16 and 14. Came off the bench the year before that. Smart guy, right? Very, very, very smart. High level IQ player. Juan, if you, if you take away that third quarter in that game, Junior ran off nine straight points.

[Max Kellerman]

He also was guarding the perimeter like JR was a really good player for that team.

[Rich Paul]

So. So all I know is that we do good business.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel. All right, guys, four teams left, two games, and with a trip to Super Bowl 60 on the line, FanDuel's turning on playoff mode. And right now, all customers get a profit boost pack during the conference championship round. That means that you'll find a pack loaded with multiple profit boosts waiting for you in the app. More boosts means more ways to level up your playoff bets.

[Rich Paul]

So.

[Max Kellerman]

So visit FanDuel.com gameover and grab your profit boost pack for the NFC and AFC championships 21 and over and present in select states or 18 and over and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See [e-mail] gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. First, I need to rage, bait Patriots fans a little bit. Sorry, but this is actually how I feel about it. The. The gods, the football gods smile on this franchise.

[Rich Paul]

Who? The Patriots.

[Max Kellerman]

The Patriots. Hey, man, the Patriots get a free ticket to the super bowl and it's no, I'm not trying to overlook, Sean. Look, the interesting thing is Stidham is going to be the quarterback because Bo Nix is out because he got hurt. Stidham is going to be the one he was supposed to once upon, upon a time replace Tom Brady. That didn't happen. But the guy who in a larger sense did replace Tom Brady is Drake May and Stidham and May are playing each other. But whatever you think of Stidham and he's competent. If he were as good as Bo Nix, he'd be starting. Bo Nix was a starter. They're out there quarterback. And this follows a trend that was true in the case of the Patriots with Tom Brady. Tom Brady played in the AFC east, rich for 20 years. 20 years.

[Rich Paul]

I know there has been a big.

[Max Kellerman]

Time Brady fan there's never been a 20 year period in any division in the history of football with worse quarterback play than the AFC East. During Tom Brady's career. The best quarterbacks that you can name in a 20 year span in the AFC east were the oft injured Chad Pennington and the older Vinnie Testaverde. And Vinny Testaverde was a great quarterback in college and he was a good quarterback in the pros for some years. And Chad Pennington was a nice quarterback. Didn't have a great arm, but he was smart. But he was out a lot. He was hurt a lot. And that was it. If you think of any division in the NFL today right now, there's more good quarterbacks in it in any division in the NFL right now than there were in the entire 20 years Brady played in the AFC east in the AFC East. And so because of that, the Patriots, primarily the Patriots were. They had a great quarterback and a coach. They were in the afc. They would win the division and all they'd have to do is win one home playoff game and then they were in the AFC Championship game. They had a free ticket there. And now the Patriots find themselves once again in the AFC Championship game with a healthy quarterback and a good team against the team without their quarterback. Once again, they get to play a team without a quarterback.

[Rich Paul]

Max, that's unfair to the Patriots because they can't. They can't decide the personnel of other teams in their God.

[Max Kellerman]

Smile on them. Well, got a smile on them.

[Rich Paul]

Some people are born on third base. I wouldn't necessarily. I tell all my friends. I wish you would feel bad about being born on third base.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Just take advantage of it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But more when that happens. It's about your character. Just treat people the right way. Don't be a prick about it. Great. But don't apologize for it. Are you crazy?

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not. I'm not saying they should. I'm just pointing out that the Patriots once again don't have to face a quarterback in a playoff.

[Rich Paul]

It's great, just great.

[Max Kellerman]

They're 20. Think of any division in. Think of any division in the NFL right now. And like even the NFC East, Dak Prescott right now is better than any quarterback that was in the AFC east in 20 years of Tom Brady's career. Now you've been Jackson Dart, by the way.

[Rich Paul]

Now you've been.

[Max Kellerman]

So is Jaden Daniels, by the way. None of those guys in the AFC were in 20 years were as talented. These guys.

[Rich Paul]

This is where your brain goes. I keep trying to tell you we have to get you tested. We just do. Because you say these things and they're so far left field. What are you talking about?

[Max Kellerman]

NFC North, Caleb Williams, Jordan Love. Like, these are just. What I'm saying is, think about that for a second. 20 years of a division in quarterback play, right?

[Rich Paul]

And.

[Max Kellerman]

And, and in any given division today, which is one single season, there's better quarterback play than There was in 20 years that the Patriots has you in the AFC East.

[Rich Paul]

It says you. But I bet you agree with that. I bet they won't agree with that. And here's what I said.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, my God. If I could. Could someone get me a list for AFC quarterbacks back then I can guarantee.

[Rich Paul]

You this Vrabel in the film sessions is definitely not taking your take on this game. You know what he's saying? He's saying, I don't care who they have at quarterback. They can put Shannon Sharp at quarterback for all I care. We have a game to play. This is the game plan. This is what needs to be done. We have to stick to our principles. We have to execute. We can't look past this game.

[Max Kellerman]

And by the way, you're right, like, the Patriots defense look really good. They look really good getting to the AFC Championship game. They got a quarterback, they got a coach, they got a defense.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm just saying they're probably going to the super bowl because once again, they don't have to face the starting quarter or a good quarterback on the other team.

[Rich Paul]

I don't. Listen, you can never do that. You can never do what you just did because you'll look up and. And. And I don't know how to pronounce his last name. But that young, by the way, that young man for the Denver Broncos sting, that's getting his opportunity. If you think for two seconds that he's not looking to take advantage of his opportunity.

[Max Kellerman]

No doubt.

[Rich Paul]

And.

[Max Kellerman]

And by the way, he. He. He. Maybe. Let's say he plays well, Rich, but he's been in the league a bunch of years. He's not the starter for a reason. He may go on a nice run. That could happen. I'm not discounting the possibility, but the fact is this is an advantage, at least on paper, for the Patriots.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Where the game isn't one on paper. So game is won on the field. It's never won on the paper. On paper.

[Max Kellerman]

Can we talk about the probable super bowl now?

[Rich Paul]

Sure.

[Max Kellerman]

The real Super Bowl. Rams, Seahawks. Cause you and I were at. It can't be the real Super Bowl.

[Rich Paul]

They're in the same conference, but you.

[Max Kellerman]

Know what I mean, These, this is like the winner of this game is likely going to be the super bowl champion Rams. Seahawks. We went to that first one in your suite earlier in the season.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, we did.

[Max Kellerman]

And it was a classic.

[Rich Paul]

That was a great game.

[Max Kellerman]

A classic. And the difference in that game was the Rams are they have a good defense, but they have an especially good third down defense. On the money down those guys come through. It's like a clutch defense, pardon the pun.

[Rich Paul]

What defense?

[Max Kellerman]

A clutch with a C. Do I have to spell it with a K?

[Rich Paul]

You no longer spell clutch with a C. It's only.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, it's just permanently.

[Rich Paul]

Got it, Got it.

[Max Kellerman]

Clutch. Do you not, by the way, are there clutch clients on that defense?

[Rich Paul]

There's clutch clients on every defense.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. So of course. So they had that third down defense and they have a great quarterback. A great. Stafford's such a great quarterback.

[Rich Paul]

And, and I'm gonna tell you something about that.

[Max Kellerman]

He got out of Detroit because now we can see what he.

[Rich Paul]

Not only is he a great quarterback, I'm going to tell you what makes Matthew Stafford great.

[Max Kellerman]

What's that?

[Rich Paul]

His wife.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Paul]

Why, man, she is an unbelievable mom. I was in the airport one time and she had his kids. When I tell you it was so impressive that she should teach a class on mothering. I'm telling you, okay, Nice lady. And I've been around Matthew and his wife, very nice, very nice people. But I was traveling back from somewhere. It might have been New York and I think the Rams had just played the Giants in New York and we were traveling back to LA and I just kind of ran into her in the lounge or whatever and we were just talking, but I just kind of watched how she handled and she was by herself, no extra nothing, just by herself. It was impressive.

[Max Kellerman]

So Stafford's an impressive. You know what? I'm so happy for him.

[Rich Paul]

That's the key for him.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm so happy for him because Rich, if he would have stayed in Detroit, we would have said okay. He had a lot of arm talent, he seemed like a good player. We'll never know if he could have really truly been great because he was never given the opportunity to. As soon as he was given the opportunity and again, ton of pressure because they packaged all the draft capital to move up to get Goff. That wasn't enough. They packaged more to get Stafford. He's coming into a team ready to win and if you don't win, that's a problem. But he came Back on Tom Brady and the defending champion Bucks late in that game and went on to win the Super Bowl.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, he's been, he's been good. He's been great. He's was great. He's been great in Georgia. He was great. He's been great everywhere. Here's the thing. Shout out to my team at Mitchell and Ness. Who sent me this? Steve Largent as I'm wearing it. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

All right.

[Rich Paul]

You know, but I'm an NFL historian. I wanted to get the James Harris Rams but we didn't have it. So I went with the Steve Largen. You know, it's gonna be a great game. And if my guy Stan's team goes to the Super Bowl, I'll be so happy for the Kroenkey family, some of the best people. And if the Seahawks go to the Super Bowl, I represent a lot of guys from Seattle. Number one. I mean dejounta hell of a team these guys are.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean they're favored to win. They're at home. So they're favored by two.

[Rich Paul]

And I also have several players on the Seahawks. I just want to enjoy the game. So I'm going to get me nine holes in. In the morning, early morning.

[Max Kellerman]

What about tonight?

[Rich Paul]

No, I don't think I'm playing today. I'm going to go to the office.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich. So I want to get back to Rams. Seahawks.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, the.

[Max Kellerman]

So it's a, you know, the Rams win that game close that we saw. Difference is the third down defense and the quarterback play. The Seahawks win the rematch in a classic. Right. They played two classics. The most obvious factor in this game is the quarterbacks. Right. Because Darnold is boom or bust. When he booms, they win. When they're bust, he's he. It could be a problem. Stafford is just great. But the least obvious thing in the game and it could determine it is special teams because Rasheed Shahid, the Seahawks have a weapon there and they're, you know, gotta be sound in the kicking game. They're sound in the kicking game. And the Rams are not good on special teams. Right. And that's a huge advantage. Like Rasheed Shahid could be the difference in this game.

[Rich Paul]

Could be there was a guy like named Desmond Howard. That was for sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, he could be. Yeah, there are guys like that.

[Rich Paul]

That was a good pickup for them from the Saints.

[Max Kellerman]

If the Rams overcome the difference in special teams and let's say Darnold is good. Darnold. And the special teams is performing and somehow Stafford is so great he overcomes that and the Rams defense comes through that. That especially the front, defensive front comes through and they get past the Seahawks. McVeigh enters, he's. I'm not saying I'm not making the case. Oh, he's the goat coach. But he enters the room where the conversation happens. He will have gotten to his third Super bowl before he's 40 years old, but rich with two different quarterbacks with completely different defenses. It's the same franchise, but they're different teams. He will have taken wholly different teams to the super bowl three times. He's already won one. And he'll be in a position to win another. To win another. If he's got two super bowl wins with totally different teams, including the quarterbacks before he's 40. How many guys have done that? He's on a trajectory that puts him in the conversation.

[Rich Paul]

How many guys have done that? I'm not sure. Definitely not many.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't know offhand either. It ain't a lot.

[Rich Paul]

Definitely not many. Listen, I'm a big Sean McVay supporter. Big, big. And when the Rams went and got, went and got him, what was he? How old was he? 32?

[Max Kellerman]

Dude, I want to say he was 30. Is that possible? He was so young.

[Rich Paul]

But he has a brilliant football mind. I've talked to him several times. I've talked to. He has a, he has a brilliant, obviously he has a brilliant football mind. And hey man, some guys are just born with it and he's one of them. He gets guys to play for him. I think he's, I think guys really buy in to, to his system and his culture. And if you're lucky enough as an organization to get a guy like that, then you know you have to make sure you support him in the way in which you get the results that the Rams have gotten over the over the last few years. So Happy for Sean McGee.

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[Max Kellerman]

Rich, you have a big topic. A big topic you've been trying to get off your chest and we never have time for it in the show, but you've been try. You've been beating me in the head with it for weeks now, maybe even months. And I think we should do this on the show.

[Rich Paul]

I have a big topic or something that we always talk about because don't confuse the viewers.

[Max Kellerman]

It's something we always talk about, but I feel it's a pretty big topic. Like this is like a whiteboard topic. We should.

[Rich Paul]

I don't have my whiteboard with me, but I'm in this.

[Max Kellerman]

Anyway, let's call it Face off because you have told me ad nauseam what it takes to be the face of a league. I want you to share that with our subscribers.

[Rich Paul]

No, listen. You and I always talk about where the future of the league is going. We talk about that. And then in that conversation we talk about, okay, who's going to be the face? And I always say to you, Max, I don't know. And when I speak, people think I'm speaking for whatever reason in a biased form because of my position, whatever. But no, it's not like I'm truly a supporter. I feel like I'm a. I'm in partnership with the league. And when I talk about the league, I talk about it as our league because we've all been blessed from this great league of the NBA. And we talk about this. And I say to you, I don't know. I really don't know. Because there's so many things that come with being the face of the league. And every guy don't want to be the face of the league because there's a lot of responsibility that comes with being the face of the league. It just is prime example. Before you can become the face of the league, you have to be the franchise player on your own team. That takes a lot right now. Some people will say, well, it takes winning championships. Do you think you have to win a championship in order to become the franchise player?

[Max Kellerman]

Max, no, you don't need to win a championship to be a franchise.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, but what does being the franchise, the franchise player grant you in your mind?

[Max Kellerman]

Being a. Well, first of all, to be the franchise player, you need to be. It's not just that you have to put up numbers. You have to put up numbers in the service of winning. It's not that you need to win a championship, but if you, if you're so called franchise players putting up numbers and you're under 500, you're not in the play in every year. It's not a real franchise player. Okay, if you have a real franchise player, you'll at least be in the play in.

[Rich Paul]

Well, here's the thing. Okay, okay, I'll give you that. Now, while being the franchise player, it's not just about you playing the game. There's a responsibility that you have to lead with for your organization. Sure, because there's a basketball side of an organization and there's a business side of an organization.

[Max Kellerman]

Your question was what does that grant you as a franchise player?

[Rich Paul]

What does it grant you?

[Max Kellerman]

It means that you're opinion on the team may be solicited and your opinion may be taken under advisement, but it doesn't mean that your opinion will necessarily be acted on. But the ownership group may solicit your opinion.

[Rich Paul]

Now, you just talked about what allows you to get there. Because it's not just points, it's production. Just as important as production is, your professionalism is also your perception. How you perceive when you come through this door or this parking garage, how you treat everyone within this organization from top to bottom. Right, as well as can the business side of the organization lean on you? Because the business side is selling you. As much as they're selling the team, they're also selling you. And the way it works is if a brand is paying money to be a part of the team, from a sponsorship perspective, they want to have access to the talent, preferably the top talent. Now, depending on who that brand may be, it may align, those two things may align, but then again, it may not align. And so how you conduct yourself as the best player, franchise player, matters in that case. That in itself, max is a lot of responsibility.

[Max Kellerman]

Now you have to be the best player on a team. It has to be a team that doesn't at least miss the play in. And you have to be willing to accept the responsibility and the added kind of workload that goes along with that.

[Rich Paul]

Autographs, you know, there's things where you have to show up to events. Now some teams do this, some teams don't. You know, some teams would do very minimal, minimal, minimal team events. Others do a lot more. You know, are you the guy that's gathering the teammates on the road trips, things in the summertime, how are we getting better? And you have to be believable because a guy can feel when you're faking it, when you acting the part versus being the part. This all matters. So you have to get all this done first to even be considered as one of the things.

[Max Kellerman]

You can't feel like the team has to pull teeth to get you to do things. You have to seem, you have to be internally motivated to be that guy so that you're authentic.

[Rich Paul]

And sometimes it does get to a point to where the team knows like, okay, as a guy gets older enough, right? I'm not going to keep doing all these things, right? And you, and you have to.

[Max Kellerman]

Kawhi Leonard is not, for all his talent is not the guy that's going to do all those things, but he could might win you a championship if he's healthy, but he's not going to do all those things.

[Rich Paul]

But, but so now how do I trans. How do I start to turn the car towards, direct the car towards driving towards face, face land, right? Be in the face of the league.

[Max Kellerman]

Land from face of the franchise to face of the league, right?

[Rich Paul]

I don't know because I think a lot has to go right. There's consistency at the top, right. You know, you're in the playoffs every year and not just from a, from a play in perspective. You gotta be in that, that, that conference finals, finals space pretty much every year because at that point the season is everybody's at home or in Cancun pretty much. And all the, you there's, there's a demand.

[Max Kellerman]

All the eyeballs are on you eyeballs.

[Rich Paul]

You have to have equity in the eyeballs. So all the eyeballs are on you during that time, what you do, key moments, key plays, then your partnerships matter. Because, you know, if I have a key moment, I need my partners, my brand partners to be able to turn that around fast. You get, like, you gotta be ready.

[Max Kellerman]

I do.

[Rich Paul]

Boom.

[Max Kellerman]

I understand. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

So then you have that then. Now it's no longer my team leaning on me. Now the league leans on me. And this is even a bigger responsibility, because now for things like the All Star Game, things like, you know, summer league, you don't really have to be at summer league, but most players do come to summer league for some point in time. But the league leans on you for a lot of different things as well. Right. Just. Just for optics, perspective, commercials to be shot, different things like that. And so it's a huge responsibility.

[Max Kellerman]

And in order to be the. In order to be the face of the league, you eventually have to win.

[Rich Paul]

A champion, and you have to win a championship.

[Max Kellerman]

Josh Allen is not the face of the NFL because he has not won a championship. If he did, if he won the. If he would won the super bowl this year, he'd have become the face of the NFL this year. He does everything else, and the talent's obvious and everything, but he has you. Eventually, you have to win a championship.

[Rich Paul]

So when you ask the question, you and I talk about it, when we look back on, first of all, how many faces of the league were there? Can you name the faces of the league that has been the face of.

[Max Kellerman]

The league before LeBron and secondarily, Steph. In between LeBron and Steph? There was in between.

[Rich Paul]

Or before.

[Max Kellerman]

No, before, rather, there was Kobe and Shaq. Maybe you could say before Kobe and Shaq was obviously mj. Before MJ was Magic and Bird. Those are the faces of the league. Before Magic and Bird, it wasn't the league, but the face of basketball. The faces of basketball probably Kareem and Dr. JJ.

[Rich Paul]

Right, right. So it hasn't been. It hasn't been many. No, it hasn't been many. And then, I don't know, what's the. What's the actual perk of being the face of the league? I think the perks come. Probably come from. Well, I'll let you answer, because I'm asking you the question.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, your brand becomes incredibly strong because you become one of the most recognizable faces in the world. Because the NBA is a global sport. Actually, you know, the entire world follows.

[Rich Paul]

The NBA pushes you. You know, it's like. It's almost like having a hit record. If, if, if. And I talked to my guy, Michael Kaiser the other day. Who? Who it? Listen, you go to a game with Michael Kaiser, Max, we gotta go to the game with Michael Kaiser. Michael Kaiser's at Def Jam Atlantic as well. Been in the music business forever. He's a legend in the music business. But a really good friend of mine, I went to.

[Max Kellerman]

Did we see him at Vinyl Night?

[Rich Paul]

No, we didn't see him at Vinyl Night, no. Because he lives in New York. But we went to a game one time.

[Max Kellerman]

This man, Shout Out Jimmy Iovine.

[Rich Paul]

This man had to spend a thousand dollars at the concession center. I'm not even lying. $1,000. Everything they had for sale, this guy bought. We was laughing about it the other day on the show. But he also gave my first. My first deal in music, too. So Shout out to Kaiser. But nevertheless, here's the thing. It's like having a hit record. When you have a hit record, your record label, they push. They want you on the air in every city in America. They pushing that. Right? And it's the same way when you're the face of the league. Now, if the other key to this, Max, is this. If you happen to become the face of the league, this is where your brand partnerships are so important. And this is why you can't always go for the most money all the time. Because who had the most money at that moment in time may not be the best brand partner for you when it matters most. And I don't know if people really understand this. And I'm the type of person when I do have my agent hat on, my representation hat on, because I don't like the word agent, but my representation hat on. I talk about this all the time.

[Max Kellerman]

CEO, Rich, CEO.

[Rich Paul]

CEO too. Yeah. Okay. I like that better when I have my. Yeah, I like that better. So. It's tough, man. It's tough. It is really tough. And I don't know who that is going to be. I think we have a lot of.

[Max Kellerman]

Who's the next. Who's next up? Is it Wemby? Could wemb. Could a 7 foot 6 dude be usually the face of the league? I think Kareem was maybe briefly with Dr. J. At least. Those are the two most famous times, though it was different times.

[Rich Paul]

I tell you one thing.

[Max Kellerman]

But like, can a 7 foot 6 guy like, you know, Steph is relatable because he's normal, right?

[Rich Paul]

More relatable than anybody.

[Max Kellerman]

Wemby is Wemby's size, but. But then again, his personality is very relatable.

[Rich Paul]

Wemby, very relatable. Yes, that matters.

[Max Kellerman]

Could. Could Wemby. Could Wemby be the face of the league? Not American, right. But speaks English.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, listen, 7 foot 6, but has a relatable personality as a game that's relatable.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not putting any limitations on anything or anybody. Yes. Why not? You know, face of the league. The face of the league. When you the face of the league, people come out to see you.

[Max Kellerman]

Wherever people come out to see Wemby, for sure, he's a huge draw.

[Rich Paul]

Like Steph. People come out to see Steph. And I listen, if I was, I would. You ever saw Steph warm up?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

That in itself, the acceptance could be sold to that by itself. Separate ticket. So. But I don't know. But I do think the league is in good hands. I always think about it. I don't know, man, because there's just a lot of things that need to go right. I know what we did with lj and I know it was a different time back then.

[Max Kellerman]

You know, I gotta say, Rich, as you're talking about it and we're talking about Wemby, I think Wemby could be the face of the league. And I think that so too, I think that the mistake is to think that the next guy will look like the last guy.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, right.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, Jordan didn't look anything like Magic or Bird. And, and, and Kobe looked Exactly like Jordan. LeBron looked a little different. Steph looked totally new.

[Rich Paul]

Well, like who?

[Max Kellerman]

You know.

[Rich Paul]

Well, the. I'll take that a step further because you just said something that's very profound. Max. The mistake is to think that the next guy journey has to resemble the last guy's journey. Sure, that's the problem we have in sports, especially in basketball. But go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but. And then with the NBA too, because the world plays soccer.

[Rich Paul]

Well, the world plays basketball too.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, that's what I'm about to say. NBA is the evolution of soccer. NBA is man to soccer's monkey. And by that I mean think about it as a consumer sport. Soccer is played on a hundred yard field, right. So when you watch it, the players, relative to the size of the field, appear to be moving slowly. NBA is played, you know, on a much smaller court. So they're zipping up and down. Yeah, zipping up and down one third, not even one third. As long. Soccer, we have opposable thumbs. So the skill was always, hey, don't use your opposable thumbs. Right. Kick the ball. And in the NBA. So no, no, we're going to use these opposable Thumbs, we're going to dribble the ball. Soccer has an enormous goal with someone who tries to stop you from scoring. Basketball, it's like, hey, let's elevate the goal to show more athletic ability. It's up in the air and you can't stop people from scoring. There's goaltending. You cannot goal tend. Right? So there's more scoring in every way. Basketball takes the template of soccer and improves upon it. So that. And in addition to that, Rich, it's essentially the same game. In other words, if you know soccer, you intuitively understand basketball. There are changes to it, but it's an evolution of it so that countries that already play soccer can grasp basketball very easily. And so it's more exportable, I think, than, say, baseball or football.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, 100%. And as I've been getting more into, I'm saying football, because football, you don't call it soccer. We say football. Right? And, you know, a couple years ago, we acquired a great company out of. Out of Germany called RUF that, that has some amazing footballers. And so I go to the Champions League final every year. And the difference is, number one, you grow up as a kid and this is. This is your team. And it's like you said, it's global. The other thing is they have more leagues is something that I also looked at, and the rules and the transfer window and all those different things as I'm learning more about it. But I think where the synergy lies is just that globalization of it all and that interest globally of the two sports. Because even when you're building a basketball brand or signature business, you start to travel around the world into these places to where basketball may not be number one, but you're going there because you're planning these.

[Max Kellerman]

And it's also growing. But because of the familiarity with soccer and the similarities between the two sports, it is easier to grow basketball internationally than any sport. Which is why basketball's the fastest growing.

[Rich Paul]

International sporting and a record.

[Max Kellerman]

Another reason why Wemby might be the next face of the league, because it's more global than ever.

[Rich Paul]

Because he's meeting the game where it's going as right.

[Max Kellerman]

Instead of chasing it, instead of, yes, he's the game and Wemby will meet each other where they're both going.

[Rich Paul]

Where they're both going. Exactly.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, listen, before we get out of here, weekend picks. Rich, who do you like this weekend in the NFL?

[Rich Paul]

Oh, man.

[Max Kellerman]

Conference championships. This is going to determine who plays for the Super Bowl. You want Me to start.

[Rich Paul]

You start, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Patriots will beat the Broncos because the Broncos have their backup quarterback. Like, that's how it is. Like, home field. That. Like. Look, I. I have all the respect in the world for Sean Payton. To me, among many coaches, he's probably the coach of the year, maybe even in any sport, because of the way he turned around that franchise. And were Bo Nicks healthy, Maybe I picked the Broncos. No disrespect to Jared Stidham, who I think is competent, but I think the Patriots have a big edge there because Drake May is excellent. They're also playing good defense. They also have a really good coach. Patriots get to the super bowl, and logic says the Seahawks should get to the Super Bowl. They're at home. They have fewer weaknesses than the Rams. They have in Rasheed Shahid, a. A crazy weapon on special teams. They're sound in the kicking game. They have this.

[Rich Paul]

Come on, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

They have advantage. They have an advantage over the Rams to make a pick because they're better in the secondary. I like Stafford and McVeigh, even on the road to get back to the Super Bowl.

[Rich Paul]

So Patriots and Rams.

[Max Kellerman]

Correct.

[Rich Paul]

Those are my two, too. I'm going with the Patriots and the Rams.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a little quicker than that.

[Rich Paul]

How quick that was?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Because once I give you the answer.

[Rich Paul]

No, but here's what I'm saying. You have to. We said, okay, Rich, NFL.

[Max Kellerman]

Two people taking a test. The kid who's doing all the work takes a while to get the answer. The guy who's looking at his sheet and copying the answer takes five seconds. The other guy did all the work.

[Rich Paul]

Because you didn't study. I actually studied the night before. That's why. That's why.

[Max Kellerman]

Touche. All right, Rich, listen, enjoy the golfing. Today.

[Rich Paul]

I'm in Vegas. Max, coming from Reno. Listen, how far is Reno from Vegas?

[Max Kellerman]

I'm at the meta apex right now. I'm doing this from the meta apex. I got to go downstairs, do rehearsals, meetings.

[Rich Paul]

We're getting ready for our for zero bond at the. At the win.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do a big commercial for this because I want people to know. Imagine if you could see the first ever NFL game, say you were there, even watch it on tv. Imagine the first ever NBA game if you were. If you watched UFC 1. You know what I'm talking about? I got it on paper.

[Rich Paul]

Tonight, who's fighting?

[Max Kellerman]

Callum Walsh. Carlos Ocampo is the main event. Walsh is a. Is a streaking rising star. But to Me the sure fire action. Oh my God. Fight Julian Hammerhands. Rodriguez, Rich Hammerhands.

[Rich Paul]

I don't want no parts of that.

[Max Kellerman]

But Kane Sandoval, this dude is non stop pressure punch. What's the prize for accuracy?

[Rich Paul]

What's the prize depend?

[Max Kellerman]

Well, there is a bonus for the best fight of the night. All the fighters talk to me in the fighter meetings, by the way, all the fighters about how like people are criticizing what fighters are getting paid and this and that. That they've never made better money than they're about to. Tonight on Zufle Boxing one. But this is, this is. It's an historical night. It's a historic night. I'm very happy to be a part of it. I've been, no lie rich, daydreaming about something like this in boxing since I was a little kid. No guarantees. It works, by the way. Got my fingers crossed.

[Rich Paul]

Dana's. Dana's that guy?

[Max Kellerman]

Yep, yep. I. If anyone could do it, it's. It's Dana. Who took a. Took mma, which was a barely legal kind of sideshow and turned it into a multi billion dollar business.

[Rich Paul]

Well, he has a proven track record. So you're going to bet with him, that's for sure.

[Max Kellerman]

No doubt. All right, I got to figure out a way to get you involved in zufa boxing.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, please do. I mean, I don't even know how I got. How I wasn't ever involved to begin with.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, let's fix that.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, please. Thank you, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

And when you get here, I'll see you on Monday.

[Rich Paul]

Let me know. What do you mean I'll see you on Monday? If you come into Vegas, I'm here. What's wrong with this guy?

[Max Kellerman]

You know how much extra stuff I packed?

[Rich Paul]

So.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh my God. They're going to see. I got. Because you were supposed to be in Vegas.

[Rich Paul]

I told you what I was wearing. I went with it every Friday. It's Michelin nest Friday for me, for the most part. And I'm wearing things that is.

[Max Kellerman]

We gotta do a throwback. We need to do a throwback jersey day on the show Friday.

[Rich Paul]

What do you mean? I've been doing it. You didn't get the memo?

[Max Kellerman]

All right, well, someone sent me the memoir. Rich, have a great. Have a great time. Have a great time on the course later today and I'll send. See you on Monday.

[Rich Paul]

All right, max.

[Max Kellerman]

Must be 21 and over in present select states for Kansas, an affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE or text Hopeny in New York.

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